I attended a conference about a year ago where one of the presenters was this feminista chick talking about how to make your business appealing to women. Some of the stuff she was saying was really out there in that she painted most businesses as ‘inferior’ because they did not go out of their way to become female friendly. Despite the fact that her strong feminist slant was semi-obnoxious to the audience (primarily men), there were some nuggets of wisdom in there.

One of those was that for women, intuitive perceptions are by-and-large women’s primary basis for making judgments about everything, whereas men will use information to make judgments. If the public bathroom in your office is anything less than sanitary & comfortable, a woman will use that as a gauge for the success of your entire business over actual financial data. In that same regard, she’ll use testimonials (social proof) from other women over any proof-based demonstrations of success you have. Obviously these are generalizations, but they underscore the point that there are fundamental differences in the way the two sexes perceive the world around them.

Bear in mind that the ability for the everyman to create the illusion of success has only been around for the last 100 years or so. The advent of protracted consumer debt has created the ability for people to acquire material possessions which allow them to feign success and status. For a 21st century example, look no further than social networking – the ultimate way to craft a perception of status which may not be at all aligned with reality. Yet, facts are trumped by facades in female psychology, and it’s nothing to fault women for. It’s simply how they’re wired.

I think what we can learn from awareness of this reality is that part of our role as men, in the role of leader in relations with women, is to control the facade. Keeping her interest level peaked is a function of her consistently being able to see and bask in your success as a man. It costs money and it costs time to deliberately focus on one’s image, especially if you are content with a low-complexity lifestyle, which I think describes most men’s inclination were it not for the mating game (i.e. society’s expectations, driven by the feminine).

It’s a scary thought to consider how easy it is to sway the hearts and minds of most women simply with imagery over substance. It’s manipulation of the image which makes even flat broke women work themselves into a rabid frenzy over $200 purses. Successful politicians and marketers have become masters of working this psychology. If there was any wonder left as to why women are the primary consumers in western culture, look no further than the power that perception plays in women’s decision making processes.

The Strata of Perception

In past posts I’ve emphasized the idea that women may claim to want truthfulness, but they absolutely do not want full disclosure.

Right about now I’m sure there are readers thinking “This is some really stupid shit, what you’re saying is I have to manage my ‘facade’ indefinitely and never let the fantasy perception drop? I can’t possibly be expected to ‘play a role’ all the time! When can I Just Be Myself and be comfortable in knowing she’s into me for me?”

The short answer to this is yes, you must never let your guard down; her emotionally associative perceptual interpretations will ALWAYS be an influencing factor in assessing your hypergamous worth for her. However, the practical answer is maintaining that perception becomes increasingly easier to do as you build upon prior perceptions, and legitimately owning those perceptions as part of your personality.

Whether you’re Game-aware or not, every girl you engage with, whether a plate to spin or a monogamous potential mate, your role, your character, has all been crafted by the gestalt sum of the perceptions she’s built around you. Even from before the moment you approached her with romantic interest you’ve been progressively layered with her emotionally associative perceptions. Perhaps by friends, maybe social proof, or even pre-conditioned expectations (for better or worse) that she cast you into, your personality to her is the sum total of a strata of emotional perception. Later into an LTR (or even a fuck buddy situation) this perception becomes more solidified.

The difficulty most men have with using this perception dynamic to their benefit is based upon their failure to grasp how women cognitively differ from men. It seems patently disingenuous for a man to manipulate a woman’s perception of him to his advantage when he’s been socially convinced that women are rational agents needing factual information upon which to base their personal decisions, and are aware of their emotional impulsivity and therefor controlling of it. This is the equalist tripping stone, men’s acculturation has taught the average guy that women are cognitive equals to men.

The tragic part of this situation is that men are, passively or actively, always making attempts to influence that feminine emotional perception to better facilitate some kind of harmony between themselves and women. When a married guy tells me his wife has no respect for him the root of that condition lies in an inconsistency of perception on his part.

“Man, everything was so good in the beginning, but then I went Beta on her, got needy, got ONEitis and she left me for the stud at the custom motorcycles chop shop.” Again, perceptional inconguencies with priorly established perceptions, and then modified by external novel emotionally associative perceptions.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

83 comments on “Perceptions

  1. “your role, your character, has all been crafted by the gestalt sum of the perceptions she’s built around you.”


    1. Then, all of these perceptions are emotional ones. This is how she feels about you. The mix and sum of all these layered micro perceptions and intuitions.

      If she wants those kind of feelings (good or bad) she takes you in. If she doesnt want those feelings (good or bad), she pops you out. A big feeling can mask weaker ones, and some intense feelings get stuck in time and memory.

      There’s no room for “facts”, reason, anything else here. This is emotional intelligence.

      If you’re screening for LTR, emotional intelligence should be top on the list.

      1. “If she wants those kind of feelings (good or bad) she takes you in. If she doesnt want those feelings (good or bad), she pops you out.”

        In summation: Hypergamy doesn’t care.

        “If you’re screening for LTR, emotional intelligence should be top on the list.”


  2. I don’t feel like editing today so I’ll add my thoughts here;

    When any guy tells me “In a relationship, you can’t act Alpha all the time” what he’s really frustrated with is that he wont be perceived as Alpha all the time by the woman he’s with. These guys are right, you can’t BE Alpha all the time, but by means of a solid, layered foundation of women’s prior emotional perception, your gestalt perception can be one of being Alpha all the time.

    1. I’ve found Roissy’s “So You Want To Be A Bad Boy” post useful for maintaining LTR frame. If I notice the gf ramping up her shit-tests, I’ll just pull something from “Bad Boy” and throw an 0-2 slider in the dirt.

      1. Can you please post the link to Roissy’s article.

        I tried googling for it and couldn’t find.

        Thanks in advance.

        1. Hmmm, can’t seem to find it online myself either. Odd. Anyway, here’s a cut/paste. (Rollo, no worries if you find this a tl;dr and go for the delete.)

          So You Want To Be A Badboy
          July 14, 2008 by Heartiste
          Here is a partial list of behaviors that badboys do around their women.
          A badboy will occasionally tell his girl to “fuck off”, “shut up”, or “shut the fuck up”, sometimes even when she deserves it.
          When his girl tells an unfunny joke, a badboy will look right at her and not laugh at all, making her feel uncomfortable.
          His GF lives out of town. She calls him and wants to drive into town to see him. A badboy will tell her “No” once in a while but give her no reason why, because he wants to hit the bars with his crew that night and hook up with another girl.
          His GF drove into town anyway and went to the bar with him. A badboy would make sure she doesn’t kiss him in public and instead use her like an advertising billboard to atract other girls. He will get another girl’s number and tell his GF he only wants to make a new friend.
          A girl a badboy has just met tells him she has a boyfriend and makes him promise to not kiss her that night. The badboy says “Sure” and kisses her later, anyway. Then he slides his hand up her skirt for good measure.
          In extreme circumstances, a badboy will kick his girl out of the car… while it’s still rolling to a stop.
          A badboy will forget every birthday, anniversary, and holiday. He will never apologize for his forgetfulness, but he will make it up to her by giving her the rogering of her life.
          If a girl tries to make him jealous, the badboy will tell her she should get out of his hair and go marry the new guy if she likes him so much, they’re perfect together. He will then hum the tune “Here Comes the Bride” but will call it “Here Comes the Bitch”.
          When his GF tells him “I love you”, the badboy will reply “Cool beans” while thinking about his date next Tuesday with girl #2.
          A badboy will use “BEYOTCH!” non-ironically.
          A badboy will be late for every date by at least 10 minutes, no exceptions. He will act as if nothing is wrong.
          If caught with another woman, the badboy will not beg forgiveness or make excuses. He will instead “remind” his primary girl that he is dating around until he finds his soulmate. If he’s a really badass badboy, he’ll tell her he’s been waiting for her to join the fun and then pat the bed.
          A badboy does not hide the video camera set up in his bedroom. Or the other girls’ hair on the pillows.
          “I’ve had enough of your shit” is a stock badboy response to his GF acting out. He will use it liberally, and accentuate the point by putting on oversized headphones and bobbing his head to the music.
          A badboy knows he has something the world’s betas don’t — the cajones to WALK. He’ll walk out the door at the slightest provocation or annoyance, slamming it shut for added effect, thereby setting the standard VERY HIGH indeed for his GF to remain on her best behavior around him.
          Badboys never split the domestic chores and always leave the seat up. “Equal” is not part of their vocabulary.
          Badboys will surprise fuck their GFs in public… with children nearby.
          Badboys never talk about their work with their women. They always keep it fun, light, and teasing.
          Badboys know it’s OK to get angry and bitch your woman out. They do not fear the consequences.

          If you are struggling to attract women, get laid, and fall in mutual love, then incorporate the badboy behaviors into your life and watch your girl troubles melt away.

          1. Great thanks man. I remember reading this a while back.

            Good stuff.

            Funny how my roommate in college had the same mentality. Didn’t do the exact things listed but was a dick to his girl.

            His relationship with her: 4 years and she moved across country and changed schools to be with him.

            Back then I didn’t understand why why why….

    2. Rollo,

      These guys are right, you can’t BE Alpha all the time, but by means of a solid, layered foundation of women’s prior emotional perception, your gestalt perception can be one of being Alpha all the time.

      This is a great point, and one I hadn’t yet considered. Men have to work toward creating an overall sense of being “alpha,” confident, dominant, in control, but don’t have to constantly project only alpha traits in order to do so.

      And in fact, trying to do so can blow up in their faces. For example, winning someone over requires at least a combination of alpha and beta skills, though the overall effect is perceived as alpha. Drawing solely on alpha traits not only isn’t going to win most people over, it’s going to create a lot of adversaries, which could very easily lead to being overwhelmed by all the little battles you’re forced to attend to.

  3. “It’s a scary thought to consider how easy it is to sway the hearts and minds of most women simply with imagery over substance.”

    Daily does of Wilde: “In matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital thing.”

    “In past posts I’ve emphasized the idea that women may claim to want truthfulness, but they absolutely do not want full disclosure.”

    Men should either be fine letting down their guard once in a while or be a damn good liar. I either want a truly good man or a man who will keep me living in a perfect illusion. I would prefer the former. The trouble comes in when men try to do the latter and can’t. Then you get some angry bears.

  4. “Man, everything was so good in the beginning, but then I went Beta on her, got needy, got ONEitis and she left me for the stud at the custom motorcycles chop shop.”

    The worst thing a man can let happen to him, care too much for a woman and let her know it. You always have to make her think that you will walk, even if you won’t, this is why no matter who I’m with, I always let her see me checking out other women, and flirting with them. When they call me on it, I say – “How could I know what I have if I don’t check out what’s available?” That doesn’t say that I’m looking for the “next” woman in my life – but it is implied that if she doesn’t measure up, she won’t be on my arm for much longer.

    1. “How could I know what I have if I don’t check out what’s available?”

      Hot damn, that is golden. Kudos to you sir.

  5. On saturday I had a girl on her back talking rough and dirty when she Full on slapped me across the face. She told me after I remind her of her abusive ex boyfriend. Needless to say i didnt bust.. though I think it has more to do with her poisoning me with absynthe on the walk back from the club. I puked two minutes after she left…. Bitch

  6. In some corners, this is referred to as the “mask” a man must wear whenever he is dealing with the world or with his woman. He can only drop that mask (bare his soul) safely with other men he trusts not to give him away. He should never drop it in front of his woman if he can help it. Of course “never” is impossible, but at least make it a rare occurrence.

    In other words, he won’t always act alpha in an LTR, but his unspoken context is that he was alpha enough to get her in the first place and he could go alpha again anytime he needs to. That should work given a woman’s perception of him from the beginning is strong enough to overcome the occasional display of weakness.

  7. Watching the fights a few weeks ago with my buddy and his gf. The gf turns to me and makes a comment about one of the fighters, who is wearing pink socks. She proceeds to tell me that she wants this guy to win. She goes on to tell me that she will root for the guy who her bf wants to win, but if it isn’t clear who her bf wants to see win she will choose the fighter who has the best style.

    Gotta love chick logic.

  8. “Again, perceptional inconguencies with priorly established perceptions, and then modified by external novel emotionally associative perceptions.”

    In other words she liked the frontin’ you and you gave her the real you.

  9. To maintain confidence, confide only in yourself.

    Being open and honest with women – for example, sharing truths I am not proud of – in the vain expectation that it would increase her respect for me and bring us closer… has backfired EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    I expect it’s cultural programming that made me think it would be a good idea. But I am the way I am now because I have learned from my direct experiences. They just don’t want to hear it. They don’t want that mask to change, even if it means understanding you better.

    There is an art to information control, to throttling the truth. I make it a personal goal to avoid outright lies and fabrications.

    But it’s a sad thought, that you can commit to and bond with and live with someone, and they’d rather know the you they want to than the real you. Sounds lonely, right? Know what’s lonelier? Getting manipulated/disrespected/rejected after exposing yourself.

    So now, they only get what I give them, and I let their hamsters fill in the rest.

    In short, to paraphrase Roosh: ladies, you made me this way.

    1. Yeah, that is sad because some women do want to connect with the real human being and get dead tired of all the gaming. “Why can’t you just be real and say how you feel,” I remember saying once. And truly, how committed, how bonded are you when you don’t even know each other? You have the good feelings game has created, but…is that the recipe for disaster or happiness? I can no longer say.

      1. Yeah, but ask yourself what you really wanted him to express, to be “real” about, what was it? His feelings for you perhaps? Certainly not his fears and doubts, eh?

        1. Yes, I wanted him to be real about his feelings for me. His fears and doubts I could certainly handle in small doses without losing attraction. I’m very devoted. I saw my ex-husband through cancer, so I feel like there isn’t much I can’t handle. But I understand what you’re driving at.

          This particular man was witholding information, most likely about his true identity, so that is what I would have liked to have known. He kept pulling the string. I have skeletons I have to tell you about before this goes further. Not being able to be with you is karma’s way of punishing me for all the bad things I did, etc.

          Basically, I wanted to know who he was. Strange case.

          1. Did he have supernatural strength, was extremely pale, somber, and described himself as a blood sucking diamond glowing machina? no? sounds like a Roissy´s fan then.

          2. lol- no. That’s kind of the issue that still torments me over it all. The deeper I’ve gotten into this world, the more I see the techniques, but I still can’t help question whether he was what he said he was. Having that happen really plays with your sanity. I can never be certain if he cared about me at all or if he lied in the beginning never expecting to fall for me and then couldn’t find a way out of his lies. Afterall, how do you tell someone that you lied about your very name and expect them to continue to trust you. The stupidest part of the whole thing was that if he had told me the truth, I would have loved him regardless.

          3. Yet here you are, after who knows how much time, still thinking about him and talking about him. One happy hamster.

            “if he had told me the truth, I would have loved him regardless.”

            The not-telling obviously increased the feelings you had and still have.

          4. Yep, its been a couple years since we met and over a year since he disappeared. The hamster is busy, but not happy. Make no mistake, this was devastating for me, and it held me back from being happy with anyone else for a long time.

          5. Thanks for the links. I reread them. Well, for the most part I’ve come out of mourning. Its not even like the situations you wrote about as I could never find him again. An inaccurate birthday and name doesn’t get you far in locating a person. And, he stopped short of having sex with me. He said he wanted to wait till I was ready. I don’t know what about being naked with someone in bed suggests you aren’t ready, but whatever. I’d only been with my ex-husband. I could go on, but I won’t. DEPRESSING!

            I’ll never forget one of the last nights I was still living with my ex-husband and he tried to give me the talk. You know, the one your dad is supposed to give you when you’re a teenager? I remember his warnings to me about men. I didn’t leave my marriage so I could fuck around. And there is probably competition there too as, obviously, there was a lot of love there and despite our flaws, we spent a good deal of our lives together. I still feel a sense of duty to be with a good man- one that my ex would “accept” if you understand what I’m saying.

            There have been people since that made me forget all of this- even one additional very strong emotional bond- but, certainly, I think all women have men from their past that made an indelible impression. I am maybe a bit more loving and impresionable than the average person.I would think that it would be the ultimate compliment to a man who could erase the trace of what was before. But men don’t seem to see it that way. Here’s the truth: a woman won’t hold onto her past when it threatens her future happiness. Oftentimes, however, she lets go too late.

    2. They do not want the “real you”. You are here to serve their purpose, to provide them with good genes and to take care of them and their babies. This is ALL your meaning for them.

      Do not mistake this relationship with the one with your mum. Relationship with your mum is unconditional – you are part of her imperative. You have instant value just for being you and she honestly care about your well being. You were part of her.

      Your wife is a woman too, but there si completely different paradigm. The realtionship is CONDITIONAL to ist core. You have value ONLY if and as long as, you are serving her purpose. Your emotions, pain, etc., are important only if and as long as, they could pose a threat to her purpose. You have no value at all – you are a tool and tool has value only if it can be used. So has the husband.

      Of course in acqusition mode – before marriage and children, she could play you best buddy and unconditional lover. After commitment and especially after children, deeper layers of their psyche activate – and she is playing her role of you master.

      She would develop an unconditional relationship too – with her children.

      1. Is the line of thought is going a little too far?

        I mean, though I think Rollo hates taking using personal examples. But does this mean he married her as nothing more than a financial exchange like a business partner?

        I’m not taking issue with the conditional part of what you said. I’m just trying point that you seem to be implying any care and/or concern from a woman. In another way to view things, a lot of friendships between guys are still based on some kind of condition. Does that mean any concern between them are insincere? Or any connection that is not connected by blood (and in a way, that is also conditional too)?

        Someone said somewhere that a good way to judge a girl is how she treat a person who is nothing to her.

          1. Comes down to the layers of bullshit you run on yourself, and how much of what you want, and therefore make conditions about, is what you really want, or is something to compensate for some other thing that you lack or are trying to hide.

        1. again – think, think, think. Do not let yourself to be fucked up by generalizations – it is some of the best weapon of matrix.

          You may fell out of love with your wife – she grows fat, familiarity, etc., but majority of men still do CARE, still feel the responsibility to provide for her and children, in divorce they let her all house, car, etc…they still feel something to her. Protective instincts insert something unconditional to the love of men towards women.

          Once man become a looser in the eyes of woman – you lose job and do not manage to find a new one in a reasonable time, you have a car accident, has NO value at all. He is a TRASH that should be ditched. Hypergamy makes her so cold as necessary to ditch weak male and find another that could better suit her needs.

          This is the difference – of course your love is conditional to some extent but you still have some moral imperative, so it is not conditional to its core. And this is also one of the most well kept secrets of psyche of women. You could ask your women about this and she tells you that she is not like the others, that she is not able of this. And she is telling the TRUTH.

          These deeper layers of female psyche activates on subconscious level given the circumstances. Again I am a former dicorce lawyer – I know TONS of cases like this. All are the same, the same chain of actions.

      2. Here is a sort of natural experiment that has given me pause for thought. Physically and temperamentally speaking, I am the spitting image of my father.

        As a self-made man with a difficult start in life, he had learned to develop his alpha traits and suppress his beta tendencies. To make a long story short, he ended up marrying a young hottie twenty years younger than him (my mother).

        Then one day a set of circumstances brought everything crashing down around him professionally. My mother soon enough dropped him like a hot potato. In his confusion, this formely strong man became a sputtering pile of beta goo in an attempt to win her back. She reacted with contempt and indignation all the while showering me, his younger clone, with unconditional love – not punishing, but even rewarding, the expression of my beta tendencies.

        Not surprisingly, when entering adulthood, I had absolutely no luck with women. Things started getting better when I in part took my younger, alpha father as a role model.

        It was often seen as the mother’s role to provide unconditional coddling while the father would dish out tough love to his children. I am now wondering if this kind of tough love is not the ideal preparation for the conditional affections of a naturally hypergamous partner.

        And by the way, my mother is honestly one of the most wonderful people I know – but yes, she obeyed her hard-wired biological imperative to ditch-the-beta-loser. As they say in that Billy Wilder film with Marilyn Monroe, “nobody’s perfect”.

        1. “And by the way, my mother is honestly one of the most wonderful people I know – but yes, she obeyed her hard-wired biological imperative to ditch-the-beta-loser.”

          This is one of the most eye-opening and healthy exercises you can engage in as a red-pill guy: observing your mom, sisters, aunts—the women you love most—for the behaviors we talk about here in manosphere. It’s important to see that hypergamy is the constant subroutine even for “good” girls.

          Because there are no “good” girls or “bad” girls.

          Just girls.

          1. Juts girls. Yeah. It is up to us what we do with those informations. As a young man I fucked my share of women and I honestly respected them – they were source of good feelings for me so there was no reason to behave otherwise. Then I engaged in divorce indrustry for 10 years.

            My feeling dramaticaly changed and form changed feelings those rules emerged:

            1. NO MARRIAGE until 60 years – after this age it does not matter, I am fucked up anyhow.

            2. MY rules, discipline, my way, my life first and foremost.

            3. Woman has a value only if and as long as, she is serving my purpose. If not she has NO value at all. I could ditch her without remorse.

            4. I am watching my back like crazy 🙂

            I became hypergamous myself 🙂

  10. “Typical North American relationship – Man loves woman, woman loves herself”


  11. Infrequently, I am approached in social situations by women that (for whatever reason) I find unattractive and/or repulsive, and want to brush them off.. nicely.

    I’ve found that by “being myself” – discussing my job, interests and hobbies – they rapidly lose interest and seek attention elsewhere.

    ‘Nuff said..

  12. The only weakness you should EVER show to ANY woman outside of your family should be inconsequential and measured (vulnerability game). Anything else will result in a reduction in your situational SMV.

    ALL women you interact with more than casually should see you as a sexually viable man. Social proof is the most powerful attractant known to man. If you have a gay girlfriend vibe with women you spend time with it nullifies the social proof. If you have a playful, flirty vibe with your female friends other women will fall into your orbit.

  13. In an effort to keep myself from reverting to Beta, I often over compensate with cockiness. I’ve learned & applied enough game over the past year to increase my notch rate (very grateful to this site & CH), but dating beyond a week or 2 is a problem. How do you dial down the cockiness just enough to not seem like a complete douche bag? Currently, I’m in binary mode: arrogant asshole or weepy new age guy (which I never show). I’m sure I’ll become more nuanced with experience, but it’s currently frustrating. Integrating your self is a real challenge.
    I suspect some game haters have gone through this experience, and, lacking faith that they’ll get better, turn their frustration into hating the game.

    1. Unbowed think of yourself as a pendulum.

      You were once a frustrated beta at the left side of the pendulum so you had enough and began reading CH & RM,etc and the pendulum started to swing towards the right.

      You keep reading, internalizing, practicing and start to get success that you hadn’t gotten before. You keep going and the pendulum has swung far to the right.

      You start to date a cute girl who has decent character and would probably make a good gf but wait, the pendulum is too far to the right. You lose said girl because you haven’t mixed in enough beta (40% b vs. 60% a) and realize why.

      Thus the pendulum slowly starts to swing back to the left.

      The fact that you realize the binary mode you are in is a signal that the pendulum is about to swing in reverse. Fear not for I doubt you will go back to the beta-left. You have tasted both the gristle and the forbidden fruit on the pendulum swing.

      You will be ok and it will probably take a few more girls and mistakes to where you have a good alpha/beta ratio and can keep around the girl that you think is worth it.

      Chalk it up as practice and know that you are not alone and that it’s natural.


      1. Very true & thanks. It’s not often acknowledged in the game how important mistakes are to learning.

        1. Absolutely, and that it takes some time to find your new “center” once you have pushed yourself out of your comfort zone.

  14. “In order to be successful, one must project an image of success at all times.” – American Beauty

  15. A friend got married and six months later got a crushed pelvis and major internal organ damage from a work accident, while convalescing from his injuries his wife left him on his hospital bed.

    So much for maintaining the facade, thank goodness he fully recovered albeit a man with a much more realistic world view.

  16. @ unbowed… im thinkin i might be one or two steps ahead of you as a fellow newish red pill taker on the make. perhaps i could help by describing what ive gone thru. maybe we’re in the exact same place or were once. its taken me 3 years of hard approaching and study to get to a place of constancy and abundance and i bet it took me failed relationships/ons/attempted ons with 10 girls (i’m talkin 10 i had a good chance with and messed it up due to something i did) and approaches of 1000s more. maybe 3000 total in that time… a few a day and more on weekends.

    but its a progression. dont stop. set milestones. first i said i would get a ons through my own work and not her falling on my dick. then i said i would get and keep a gf. did that, hated that. then i wanted to start spinning plates. lotta work but check. now i’m trying for hotter girls regularly, have 1-2 girls around that know the deal, can’t have commitment and still stay and am approaching love slave territory slowly but surely. i just recently heard “how can you be such a jerk and so loveable at the same time.”

    3 years ago i was frustrated and didn’t have faith in game at all. its all possible. let your confidence snowball with small milestones. dd did a post on his site’s forum recently about “how to be a pokemon master.” he basically said find inspiration wherever you can and just start working. don’t worry about what other people have and trying to compare to it, just find the fishing rod like in the game.

  17. in terms of another pendulum, i would say make your game just as much practice as theory. approaches in field did a lot to help me see what worked and what didn’t in real time, but just as important was theory from sites like rollo/roosh/roissy/rawness/rsd (the best have all r names, huh what?) etc which helped me identify overall boundaries and scope. but really, just read everything. not even from the big game guys. some of the best sites are ones like willy wonka, krauser, rivelino, when he was in action, vk, or even sillier, seemingly “inconsequential” sites. knowledge is everywhere (fishing rod).

  18. @yohami 9

    but i think if i did the same thing again it would yield higher results. those were basically my first tries ever.

    1. Holy smokes – 0.003 success rate. You must’ve been coming from a low place on the social totem pole man. Which means your efforts deserve even more respect. You sir, are indefatigable.

        1. Quit hating on the dude so much Yohami much credit should be given for the effort he has put forth.

          Gaius you will get there. Keep reading on Ch, RM, Yohami and so forth and in a year or so you will be in a much better position of power.


      1. 3000 approaches is one hell of an effort—most guys don’t have the balls for 30. But bangs is a very low ROI.

        There could be a few things going on here:

        1) You aren’t learning from your mistakes quickly enough. If this is the case, it may be helpful to keep a journal or take notes every 10 approaches or something like that.

        2) You are approaching girls too much higher than you in sexual market value. For example, if a guy is a 2, then even with tightest game he’ll only be regularly banging 4s. It may not seem like much to us, but for a guy who is a 2, consistently banging 4s is a quantum shift in his quality of life that makes his existence sweeter than he could have ever imagined. But if he’s a 2 approaching 3000 6s, his success rate is going to be painfully small.

        You need to do an honest appraisal of your value and start approaching girls at that value (or slightly lower) to build up confidence. Then advance.

        3) Work harder to establish an emotional connection of some sort in your initial approaches. It’s the only thing in your immediate control that, in my experience, makes a dent in the number of flakes.

        Game isn’t a panacea—it’s just a set of tools that up your odds with women and, if you work hard enough, helps to free your mind as a man. Even with Game, a male 4 will never consistently bang 7s or 8s—expect to be consistently closing girls 1-2 point higher than you on the scale.

  19. Can someone dumb this down for me
    “…perceptional inconguencies with priorly established perceptions, and then modified by external novel emotionally associative perceptions”.Its the last paragraph.

    1. Example: When a guy learns just enough Game to apply it successfully with a woman, she has her perceptions established by his demeanor, frame control, personality, etc., but also by her own expectations, her acculturation and what she’s been influenced by up to the point before she meets him. By the time they’ve engaged in an LTR (or even just a regular dating routine if it’s casual) she’s built a mental model of him based upon layers of her perceptions about him.

      If later (into a relationship presumedly) a man’s actions or expressed thoughts present perceptions that are contrary to this woman’s mental model of him, she is forced to reconstruct that model. If he continually gives her perceptions that are incongruent with her prior mental model of him, she either must disengage with that model (and probably him) or form a new model based on her new set of perceptions.

      Now we’ll introduce a new romantic interest for her (motorcycle mechanic guy) upon which the same set of perceptual conditions apply under which she met the first guy. Only now her perceptions of the new guy are modified by her perceptions of the LTR guy. Conversely, her perceptions of her LTR guy are also modified by her new guy (“he’s so much more exciting than her boyfriend”)

  20. @dragnet @yohami @alphawiskey

    thanks for the advice. maybe it wasn’t 3000, maybe it was 2000. i didn’t count so i have no idea, but i know it was a lot and a few a day over a couple years seems to be roughly that ammount. i’m counting approaches that were of people i had no sexual interest in either. the point for me wasn’t to keep a rate going, just to bust thru a wall, which i did.

    and 9 was wrong. i thought harder for the rest of my day and it’s actually 13. i don’t think that is necessarily bad and i think you guys should re-evaluate what a .0003 really means. i don’t consider it unsuccessful. i’d rather be where i am now with a .0003 success rate or whatever than not laid at all and still at square one. has anyone seen tyler at rsd talk about this? maybe in 3 more years i can start talking triple digits because i see myself/have been going ham. how much can really be expected of newbies tho?

    i think i did pretty good and i don’t necessarily have the sticking points described above. the girls i approach are usually into me and i have no problem forging strong rapport/emotional connection. i am good looking and am told that, lift weights/look ripped. i have always been a pretty put together person, with self-confidence even before i knew what game was. my problem was being raised by a woman and all the blue pill philosophy that comes with it. some of the 13 were ons, some i messed around with longer in something approaching ltr, at a time when spinning plates wasn’t as immediate priority as just one plate on its own.

    i’m at the point now where i “get it” and girls realize it, i just moved to a new city, got my logistics just right (own place, own car finally, good social circie, ability to start over with knowledge from my mistakes, in a place where no one saw me make them to start. i’m in a bigger city now, bar close to my house etc.)

    what ever happened to roosh’s assertion that you’re doing good with 3-8 girls a year? 13/3 = 4.333 a year and that number is rising slowly but surely over the past couple years for me. so what are you guys really talking about saying i need coaching? i’d be interested to hear your stories of success/getting in the game and its progressions. like it was said, game is not a panacea. i’m sure the sky is the limit. if you say i could be doing better, i don’t doubt you, my game gets more refined all the time.

    1. Bro, there is a contempt point, that seems to elude Tyler and every other PUA instructor, even when this is at the very foundation of game:

      1) Women are attracted to high value, confident, dominant, successful, abundance minded, social proofed, cocky, funny, resourceful, grown up, attractive, men.

      2) The one with less value chases the one with higher value. The one with the more needy frame concedes to the one with the less needy frame. The one who needs the less controls the interaction.

      3) 1+2 = women are naturally attracted to high value men who dont need them as much as they need the men. Once in this position, women surrender and are happy to be lead, and they complement their man in every way they can and keep him happy, because he’s still a catch. She follows him, he doesnt follow her.

      4) All this wording is just: Hypergamy.

      5) Once she’s attracted to a man, once that fully kicked in, nothing else matter. As long as the strong attraction is there, he can do anything, other people can do and say anything: the bond will stay.

      6) When other girls want this same man, it only makes her want him more.

      * * *

      Good? we all know that right? so.

      1) You only need to “approach” women because they are not chasing you.

      2) Every time you “open” a girl you have to establish the whole frame again? because you have nothing built.

      3) You’re only need to approach because you’re low value. Actually, you keep playing the game because it reinforces your low value. You get tiny, short validation signs that pump your value up, a little, and make you have insecure dreams of glory and “what could have been”, then you go back to low value. You’re playing an addiction game.

      Do you want to be successful with women, for real?

      Instead of keeping your current value and position in the chain, and approaching thousands of girls while trying to emulate upper value behaviors… upper your own value in the chain, and socialize everyone, thousands of people, while you’re at it.

      Grow up your persona and your value and make thousands of relationships that STAY. Build a net of connections that STAY. Build.

      Build up your value. And socialize. Do you like game? then incorporate Game, whatever you like about it, or all of it, into you. Make what you really like, default, so there’s never a “deflating” back to the “real you”. Change who you really are. Up your value. And interact with a lot of people from there, as you go up.

      I cant say this enough.

      So. You’ve seen famous, powerful people, business owners, etc? the guy’s other guy’s treat with deference and women flirt with? you’ve seen the guy who clearly owns his circumstances and has the world working for him?

      “Approaching” doesnt enter his lexicon.


      And now Im screeming! there you go.

      You’re better off spending 3 years building up your value as a man and playing a cumulative game and growth game and socializing with lots of people and women, and knowing what you’re doing, than, spending 3 years with your current value and “approaching” while improving your superficial “verbal / behavioral game”, that you’re using so you dont feel that bad about your real low value, anyway.

      Oh boy.

      If you want happiness make it real.

  21. dude i think your putting words in my mouth, and that we’re basically in agreement. idk why your so mad. i understand that the ideal state is to have women drawn to you effortlessly, which is what i’m starting to reach after all this work of approaching. the 2 plates i have now… i did nothing to get. both went out of their way to come to me, basically because of a reputation that has developed. those “approaches” (i hate pua lingo, and it sounds like you do too. ) netted me a lot more than jjust sex. what it gave me is awesome conversational skills, rock solid confidence and an ability to lead men and women, as well as people soliciting advice and leadership. i’ve made a lot of friends for sure, even if not all of them wanted to fuck me. it has made me a better man, just as constantly reading, working out and innovating everywhere i can does. those approaches raised my value indirectly, even if the first they subcommunicated low value. if your first 2000 or so were so different, then tell me about them. i’ve heard that you’re supposed to be among the world’s best. teach me something then.

    1. gaius, check it out

      Good for the skills and stuff you collected. That’s where the value is. The more you invest there the more girls will jump on your lap without direct effort or involvement on your part other than whatever comes as natural socialization for you. That’s the natural order of things. Abundance should be drawn to you.

      Thanks for the “among the best” thing.

  22. “Do you want to be successful with women, for real?”

    depends what success is. what is the endgame for alpha? i have two girls right now who love me, both think they’re the only one, and are still cool with the abstract idea of me f ucking around as long as its not shoved head=long into their faces. i’m not on that superballer level of not approaching ever, but who is? correct me if i’m wrong, but that idea sounds kind of anti-gamer-y to me. men are still expendable (and women are still perishable), so most of our values are still going to be relatively low to society and the smv regardless of what we do.

    regardless, i think when you hear me say the world approach you envision a dude being super try-hard, with a boner in his pants spewing go-for-broke-game. i’m talking about an approach in the same way you are: meeting people, connecting, simply socializing, with sex as a nice, occasional icing on the cake when i first started it was as you describe, but now its more like i have my 1-2 steadies and approach/look on the side. it takes absolutely nothing to get laid.i no longer work for regular pussy, which takes the pressure off of interactions and helps the willing fall into my lap that much easier. in hindsight, what i’ve realized is that my game is perfectly serviceable, i’ve just needed to tighten logistics in an advantageous way, which moving to a new city etc has done for me.

    i’ll get back to you in 3 more years…

    1. Yes, when you said 3000 approaches and 9 lays, it sounded like doing day and night game, opening with pickup lines, by the book, getting numbers, following leads, teasing and closing and calibrating… and having sex with 9 girls as the payoff for all that work.

      But if you meant socialization… it’s a different story.

      1. Yohami I think you are being harsh on the guy

        He seems to have the right frame of mind and so do you.

        I’ve been following the dialog between you two and I agree with both.

  23. its all good bro. ill check out your website and that link. for real tho no bullshit “among the best” i remember seeing a vid of you kiss close a girl in like 5 min. maybe it was yad, i forget. inspiring nonetheless. it made me desire to replicate those results. the best close i ever had was the direct result of watching that video and wanting to replicate. i wish i had vids of it. my best close ever: 5 min hello to penetration right there on the street. it was kind of lucky tho. i just knew she liked me, calibrated correctly and then made her jeep shake for an hour.

    for all i know the 2000 is not even 2000 im just guessing. i have no idea how “well” Im really doing. in a sense i don’t care. anything is better than beta. i do know that i had to shatter that wall. if i had to do it again knowing what i know now, i’d hope to approach 10% close rate which i think is all that is reasonable. alek novy said paul janka’s close rate is only 11% no matter what. (ps fuck alek novy)

    1. Yah, that video wasnt me…

      You know you’re doing well when new girls flock around you and want to go places before you’re even sure you like them, because you’re busy getting other ones that you’re not sure if you like either. That’s also the moment where you should stop and reevaluate.

      I only did PUA for about three months. I realized I wasnt cut for it, I kept forgetting my lies, I didnt remember which girl I was dating, who I had banged, etc. It became “the number games with a thousand masks” and started messing up my stories. It also pissed me off the repetition of all the same bullshit. Hi, age sex location? blah blah blah blah. So predictable. I think my (sex) conversion was 3% or so. Banged two girls and an ogre. Then I ditched that and moved into Alpha. Self centered and built around me, so the value carried with me, expanding my social circle, becoming the center of many social circles (playing on a band, acting classes, hosting parties, etc etc). In short I followed the same advice Im giving you. Rate went up to 60% with near to zero effort. I still got my hear broken a few times, but not because of rejection.

      Do check my link… I elaborated on that point.

      1. You seem to be hitting on something I have been saying for a long time.

        I’m all about learning “shortcuts”, but at the end of the day there is absolutely no substitute for bona fide Sexual Market Value.

        I’ve been the guy who struggles to get laid and I’ve been the guy who had girls fighting over him at parties. The time when I was EXPONENTIALLY more successful was when I had an entire lifestyle that attracted women in and of itself. I had a well known business with tv commercials that aired on popular networks, nice cars, a 4 story townhouse with a jacuzzi on the roof walking distance from the clubs….there is NO substitute. And it wasn’t the material things or the obvious status that got me noticed most of the time. It was the aura I projected. Most of the women I attracted during that time fell under the spell well before they knew about any of that.

        Knowing how to talk your way into a woman’s pants by creating the illusion of value is great but the reality is that if you are a burger flipper you are going to have to work extra hard for a mere fraction of what would come to you easily if you had something substantial to back it up. It’s the difference between you having to actively seek out the pussy and the pussy coming to you. It’s the difference between having to continually work to recruit new women because you eventually get smoked out and not having to worry about recruiting new prospects because they are already lined up waiting for a shot at you.

  24. “there is NO substitute. And it wasn’t the material things or the obvious status that got me noticed most of the time. It was the aura I projected. Most of the women I attracted during that time fell under the spell well before they knew about any of that.”


  25. @Gaius @Yahoami @GoodLuckChuck

    I appreciate your input on this thread.

    It was great to hear your diff pov. Yohami cool to hear your brief stint into PUA and what came of it. GLC your theory on being a pussy magnet was enlightening.

    Gaius keep up the good work I feel lucky to have followed the comments.

    This shit was incredible, like the pinnacle to all the work I’ve been putting in.


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