Would you leave if she got fat?

Tony Romo would.

It appears that the topic du jour in the community this week has been, (how shall I state this?) women of “larger girth” and their oddly commensurate attitudes of entitlement, due to the the ‘love thyself’ body image apologists making their mark on popular culture.

I generally go into great detail on a lot of my posts about the conditions for intimacy women place on men. Roissy codified this as the “436 bullet point checklist’, but I just tend to distill women’s list of stated criteria a man needs to meet in order to be acceptable for her intimacy. He’s got to be attractive, tall, well employed or the potential to be so, he must have status (some call it power), be caring, sensitive, humorous, educated, not overbearing, decisive, confident, a good listener,..etc., etc. and the list goes on and on.

However, rarely do I have the chance to explain men’s one condition for intimacy – physical attraction. She’s GOT to be hot. Guys rarely start thread topics seeking advice in order to hook up with  HB 2s or 3s – they post about HB 7s to 9s.

That said, a Man’s one condition should be pretty important as well as effect the highest standard he’s capable of attaining. Not accounting for Game, men’s individual ability to attract women is based on a number of criteria (including his own appearance) and respective of his own physical conditions – in other words, fat guys are going to be limited in their ability to attract exceptionally fit women, and those that do so by meeting women’s other conditions for intimacy (most commonly wealth) will still be hindered in their ability to maintain a woman’s continuous interest level, genuine desire, arousal and passion. 

The same situation holds true for women only there is a much higher standard for maintaining her physical attraction. His one condition for intimacy is that she remain attractive and to a greater degree, sexually available to him. In order to circumvent this women for centuries have maintained a complex social dynamic that makes his one condition his greatest fault. Thus we hear how ‘shallow’ he is for not seeing her ‘inner beauty’. We are scolded for being ‘superficial’ and ridiculed as being unevolved troglodytes for those men with still enough testosterone to overtly say they’re looking for the most attractive woman they can get.

“It’s what’s on the inside that counts”, or “Beauty is only skin deep” has been the Disney mantra of westernized romanticism and ‘courtly love’ since the Renaissance. And why not? It works in a woman’s biological favor to breed with the male gifted with not only the best genes, but also the best ability to provide for her security and that of her offspring. What better social dictum than one that shames him for recognizing his one condition for intimacy while simultaneously giving her the advantage of better selection when she doesn’t measure up to what his standards would biologically be his preference? Human beings have many social practices that have the latent purpose of thwarting our evolved, biological best interests; this is one of them.



Just as a side note here, I should point out that the two most common reasons cited for divorce in western culture are sex and money, and in that order. Men most commonly complain that their wives are no longer in the shape that they were when they met and women generally complain of reasons relating to his ambition and economic status.

Every married man I’ve known has always expressed feelings that his wife isn’t as sexually available – in frequency or intensity (i.e. passion/desire) in comparisson to when they first encountered each other. Generally this is due to her “letting herself go” after marriage or childbirth and she no longer ‘feels sexy’ so sex becomes less important to her or worse still, it takes the status of becoming another ‘household chore’ to add to her list. This then becomes a vicious cycle; she’s let herself go, sex decreases in importance to her and she makes little attempt to, or has no time to take care of herself physically as she did in her youth when she had a prime motivation to maintain herself in peak physical shape (or as close as she could). Add to this the psycho-social dynamic that stresses that men ought not to be so concerned with the physical or place such importance upon sex, and goes as far as to shame him as a ‘deviant’ if he is unwilling to internalize and accept this. Her lack of desire is characterized as HIS problem.



He of course feels cheated and goes through the frustrating internal turmoil of dealing with a social dynamic that tells him he’s ‘bad’ for recognizing his wife is no longer the woman he married. This is the ‘bait & switch’. Her sex drive and physical condition is more than acceptable during courtship and pre-marital relations, but after the marriage he feels he got a raw deal and is powerless to even mention that she ought to take better care of herself for fear of driving that psychological wedge between them that the dynamic of ‘loving her for what she is and not her physical form’ dictates. Essentially he is stripped of his one condition for intimacy while her conditions remain and are even more pronounced in light of the responsibilities he assumes in marriage or an LTR.

How important does the role of attraction play in a relationship? The funniest thing is you can apply the same idea to women with regards to a man’s level of success. If a guy cheats on his girlfriend or wife after she ‘lets herself go’ and puts on 20 extra pounds he’s called ‘shallow’, yet if a woman, hypergamously, leaves a guy who’s out of work and/or lacks a certain level of ambition she’s just ‘being prudent’. That said, the definition of what is ‘shallow’ is generally defined by women. It’s a man’s biological imperative to mate with as many fit and attractive females, while it’s a woman’s imperative to choose the male who is best capable of providing her with security and by default to ultimately share in parental investment. But, feminized (not feminist) society calls a man shallow and a woman wise for accepting the roles nature has dealt for them. So it’s my advice that we stop accepting this epithet of ‘shallow’ as some kind of punishment for simply being a man.

In terms of life investments and capitalizing upon opportunity and ambition, men have FAR too much on the line in the long term NOT to be concerned with demanding the highest standard from a woman for an investment that goes beyond anything she could hope to genuinely appreciate or match by other means. It’s really up to you to make the judgement call, but by no means should you allow accusations of superficiality influence your decisions in which woman you ‘should’ find attractive. As a Man, you are well within your rights to expect a maintained physique from a woman, considering the far greater sacrifices she expects from you. Would you leave her if she got fat? Damn right you would. Would she leave you if you went beta-listless-unemployed-alcoholic? Damn right she would.


28 responses to “Would you leave if she got fat?

  • dc1000

    I wish I could have handed this to the marriage counselor bitch who ultimately ended my marriage. She herself was just the woman you describe here and having both her and my wife berate me for wanting sex more than 5 times a year was unbearable.

    Thank god that is all gone!

  • Y

    The way I look at it, being healthy is a reflection of your inner self: your knowledge about nutrition, healthy living, discipline to live a healthy life-style etc.

    I don’t compromise on that standard when it comes to LTRs.

  • CG

    Maybe it’s just my circle… but I see just as many wives who stay thin,keep themselves up and STILL don’t have sex with their husbands.

  • itsme

    probably because they’re too worn out from banging their personal trainers.

  • Tom

    [Pic of overfed Jessica Simpson]

    I’d still do her.

  • flyfreshandyoung

    Haha I, on more than one occasion, have goaded women into a debate about this topic. They all, in addition to being very entertaining, ended in accusations that I am shallow. In their solipsism, it is impossible for them to really, truly consider that we men have different criteria for who we want to fuck.

    They know it, but they really don’t. Women will dress as skanky as possible, showing off their physical attributes when trying to get a new dude, and then shame the man when he leaves when those attributes are no longer there.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Yet another nail in the coffin for western women.

    Chick gets fat and thinks that you should love her for “who she is”. This is of course reinforced by society to the point where it doesn’t matter if you are wrong or right for expecting her to live up to your standards. Mothers and grandmothers used to teach girls how to remain competitive in the sexual market. Nowadays the whole family sits around watching Dove commercials nodding in unison at the idea that fat is beautiful and we should all be accepted for who we are.

    These days we are shamed for driving those poor young girls to anorexia because of “impossible” standards of beauty. I don’t know about you, but I could go out on any given day in any given city and count roughly 736 heart-attack-waiting-to-happen landwhales for every chick who looks a little underweight.

  • (r)Ev

    Here’s an irony for you, a “new” wrinkle on an old story I’m watching this dynamic play out with a couple whom I’m friends with:

    Guy marries young hottie at 20. She gets a little porky over the next 2, but he still loves her. Then they have kids. Almost a decade goes by, she balloons up to close to 200 lbs on a petite frame. Double chin, big butt beyond a badonkadonk…He still loves her and stays with her, despite being less attracted. The relationship gets rocky, but he stands by her & they stay together for the kids.

    She gets wise, takes the nutritional red pill, starts going to an A-list personal trainer, and loses more than 70 pounds. At this point, she’s got a tiny waist, big tits, a round but acceptable ass, and a very attractive and youthful face. At 28, she turns heads & gets a lot of compliments.

    Here’s where it gets intersting. I see that the husband accepts his wife at her tubby worst, so that set the default SMV exchange for the relationship.

    But now that she’s gone from a 4 to an 8, but hubby hasn’t changed.. you know what’s coming.. she is losing the tingle, and is getting male attention outside the marriage. She sees that she has options.

    She’s somewhat hip to evo-psych, and she has some understanding intellectually what’s going on, but clearly she has the tingle going for some of the bad boys in her gym and elsewhere that are giving her attention & validation.

    Relations with husband have been widely variable, with some contempt on both sides, but clearly the trend has been downward. The husband is tall and attractive, he has some game but has strong beta tendencies and is somewhat of a blue-pill kind of guy. I’m an impartial observer, so I just talk with them both & get a perspective. The wife worked at my company, and I don’t shit where I eat, so I don’t go there, thought I do simply act myself around her, which, when combined with my aloof and genuine disinterest, does create tingles on her part for me. Meaning I could hit it if I wanted to go down that road, but I don’t. Sometimes the pussy you turn down tastes better than if you’d have gotten it–I just don’t want the drama, and I’m getting plenty of action elsewhere, so no need to complicate my life. But I do pay attention to the dynamic, and like to learn from every situation.

    I’m curious as to what the host & commenters might see in this situation for the road ahead for this couple, aside from the obvious–that the hubby needs to develop some tight game, and fast.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    I’ve seen this movie many times before. There are usually two outcomes. The first is the obvious one where the “born again chubby” indulges in her post fat opportunities. She may get caught in her infidelity, she may not – he will probably forgive it, since he’s been so tolerant of her fat years by this point anyway. The second is that she rides the attention fence for a few years, never really committing to the act, but fantasizing about the Alpha cock she ‘could’ get. In either case she eventually hits the inevitable Wall and wallows in self-pity for not indulging herself while she had the chance, or for indulging herself and staying with the dutiful beta husband. In either instance she’s resentful for having stayed with a patient beta who’d put up with her de facto cuckoldry and pines for the “alpha(s) she could’ve had”.

    I think what gets lost in a story like this is the patient dutifulness the husband displays is never genuinely appreciated by a woman. It’s almost a morose pride in that he believes he’ll somehow engender respect from her or others acquainted with his loving perseverance whilst she’s allowed to make her own mistakes and “mature”. His sense of dedication is then a convenient rationalized fall back for her when she has had her cake and eaten it too. Meaning she can successfully transition from an initial beta to an Alpha (or more) and then comfortably back to the beta again, assured in the knowledge that he’ll feel vindicated in his self-righteous adherence to what he believes makes him a better person.

  • itsme

    please, please don’t google ‘jessica simpson weight gain’.

    if i had tear ducts i would cry.

    i found this link funny, though:

    http://justjared.buzznet.com/2009/01/27/jessica-simpson-trainer-curves/

    says her trainer: ‘she’s got beautiful curves!’

  • Arch

    That’s it exactly and I use that as a retort to “inner beauty” and “love me for what’s inside.”

    It goes like this:

    Her: “Love me for what’s inside!”

    Me: “When what’s inside rises up and accepts responsibility for maintaining the outside, it becomes truly beautiful and worth admiring.”

    Agree, amplify, reframe.

  • RL

    I think it mostly boils down to male solipsism: men are projecting their own loyalty expectations onto women, and then act extremely disappointed if that is not reciprocated, because men don’t want to believe that many women strictly act according to opportunity. You saw the post of the husband who supports his wife to get an MBA just to see her fly off with some other well-off business guy, or similar to the fatty story that a loyal husband stayed with her wife who has health issue just to find himself dumped once she got better to follow up other opportunities.

  • unbowed

    Very true, except it’s not solipsism or selfishness on the man’s part, but naiveté.

  • xsplat

    That’s a great twist you put on agree and amplify, by including it with reframe.

    Yes, it’s often the best way to argue – agree with something she didn’t say.

  • It’s easy to be a critic. Who can create? Create your good girl. « Random Xpat Rantings

    [...] men hate about modern women: Being power grabbing ungrateful man-hating bossy shrews Gets fat Can’t [...]

  • Snoeperd

    hey man, i really like your writing, its very analytical, Would you mind posting a few more writings about how to become more riskaverse? thanx

  • Danger

    My gf has sex whenever I want it.

    I said an off-hand comment among a group of friends once in a non confrontational way about “if your wife doesn’t get you off, someone else will”.

    I am sure she heard the message loud and clear. And if not, then why bother staying? Just go your own way and go back to banging randoms.

  • PermanentGuest

    “Her lack of desire is characterized as HIS problem.

”

    In fairness, how is it not? It’s a man’s duty to initiate the sexual relations. Why then, should he be off the hook when his wife suddenly feels unloved? Worse yet, what did he expect when he committed to an attractive yet insecure girl? Did he magically expect her to become secure in herself, without his help?

    Don’t get me mistaken; Women have responsibilities in a relationship. Yet a lot of the sentiments from women losing their sexiness is just passive-aggressive whining. Never do these men realize that women are a reflection of their inner selves, and perhaps it is their responsibility to stimulate sexuality. After all, that’s what ‘game’ is.

    PG

  • Deep Dish

    I’ve met beta guys who were dumped after their girlfriends lost 50 pounds, showing how predictably conditional love is. Favorite line of Chris Rock: “Fellas, have you ever been going through some hard times with your woman—you lose your job or something? Your woman tries to console you, saying, /Hey baby, don’t worry, we’re going to get through this. I know we’ve got some bills, but if we have to get rid of some of this shït, we will get rid of some of this shït.’ She’s talking about you. Fellas, if you lose your job, you will lose your woman. She may not leave the day you lose it, but the countdown has begun.”

  • workafrolic

    Currently it is chic for women to be thin (and to be seen with said thin woman), but for many centuries, the voluptuous (aka fat) women were desired because that fatness indicated nutritional status, wealth and fertility. Now thinness is a good indicator of self-restraint, fitness level and a healthy diet (still indicates the same three things, just now different with societal changes.)

    It simply is higher status nowadays to be with a thin woman than with a fat one. Ultimately it is less about body type and more about what society has deemed high status as men and women alike are shameless ladder-climbers.

    Men had no trouble fucking the curvy type centuries ago, in fact it was deemed much more attractive than the waifish, boyish bodies that some girls try for. Personally, if I were a man, I’d go for a woman with a C cup, slender but not bony legs, curvy butt and thighs and a defined waist.

    Both men and women need to get that long-term relationships take work and that involves physical maintenance, financial maintenance/growth and personality checks. Man or woman who fails to see the competitive nature of relationships is asking to be dumped.

  • just visiting

    Love between a man and a woman. is conditional. If you want unconditional love, you’ve got a mother. If you didn’t get it from your mother, you’ve got a creator. Ex hubby has unconditional love from me, and a man has to throw his life in flames pretty badly for an ex to love unconditionally. But it’s maternal, not the love between a man and a woman.

  • Kai

    Curvy=/=Obese. Don’t conflate them.

  • Josh

    At least use a suitable picture for your post. Jessica Simpson is not by any means ‘fat’ in that image. :/

  • Mary

    I don’t believe your assesment of the situation is thorough or accurate.
    It is true that women put a set of expectations on a man when she considers whether or not to marry him. But if they don’t vocalize those expectations then they probably won’t get them. Have you ever known a man to tell his fiance she better not get fat and then not get what he asked for?
    If a man’s only expectation is that his future wife will always weigh between X and X (I mean screw how well she can cook, clean, bear and raise children, do laundry, keep finances in order, PTO, doctor’s appointments… well, all those things men don’t consider when choosing a spouse [by your standard... I mean, men only pick good looking women for biological reasons, right?]) then that man will most likely be let down at some point. But if a woman picks a husband based solely on the income of her possible suitor… well, she’s in for a heartbreak as well.
    I don’t know if you’ve ever been married. But a lifelong committment to another human being (and then bring children into the mix?) is a multi-faceted situation. If she’s happy just so long as you’re rich, good looking, sensitive, and you never make her look bad in front of her friends, are you really suggesting that all she needs to do to keep your attention is stay good-looking?
    I’m old-fasioned. I do think a man should have a job. But what about when both partners have jobs and there are kids involved?
    Don’t take me wrong. I think everyone, men and women alike, should take time to take care of themselves. But the situation you are describing here (man does everything to care for his family and woman does nothing but lay around spending money and getting fat) is made up. It’s not real. Yeah, women gain weight when they get married… so do men. Yeah, women’s sex drive goes down after they’ve been with the same person for a while… so do mens’.
    People should not get married based on looks or money. Those things do go away. If you love the person you are with then it will withstand richer and poorer and better and worse. And for God’s sake, if your spouse’s weight is a big deal, have that conversation before you get married!
    (BTW, the only girls I ever knew who cheated on their husbands because they were unemployed were called whores, not ‘prudent’, so I don’t know where your information comes from but you might want to question it.)

  • bob

    If only women would do what you are saying,Mary. Then divorce rates would be much lower.

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