Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

15,570 comments on “Field Reports

  1. ^^^ honestly why are you letting this guy live free in your head.

    Fuck him.

    You proceed as usual…

  2. IAS

    So you’ve fucked 50% of the bangable girls yet feel insecure about Mr T.

    K

    You’re killing me… But I get it. Remember cats are not dogs. We are programmed to read physical cues as threats. Plains of Ur.

    The real threat is the guy who makes the biggest emotional impact. And here is where I think you are maybe going too secret in the society.

    All these other girls don’t know you are banging the others. So you are losing some of that preselection and that reputation. They are still able to treat you as a one off.

    As an aside… So you see that despite what girls say what they do is very different. Only the aggressive 5/6 girl makes any kind of overt move on T. The better looking girls won’t. They will stay proximite and hope hope hope he “just gets it”. And the longer he is hanging around an NOT getting it the more he is DLVing.

    Soon they will be asking if he is gay. Cause it can’t be them. The other thing to keep in mind is if T is Hawt and has Game he probably has hotter younger tighter on lock and is simply uninterested in an average bang… Very common with guys like that, the real top. Very different reference experience and motivation.

    Think of Leo DiCaprio being in your group. He will be easy and charming and all the girls will want him but he is likely sleeping alone and sexting super models…

    The other thought I have for you… Get a bigger tent!

  3. Update, another attempt with N=5. The early FRs were just reposted if anyone wants to recap, but the short version is we banged in two different days in March, then haven’t banged, I proposed she come over and she explicitly said it wasn’t for sex (there was the funny exchange about her looking fat). She came over and we didn’t bang.

    This time she reached out to me and proposed she cook. I agreed and so it is. She didn’t mention it wasn’t for sex (which was encouraging). I ended up cooking some meat and she makes a fancy side. Eat. I then initiate a massage on her shoulders and get then get her to sit on my lap (which she does), then she shit tests about it and I say “Ok lets move to the couch”. In the couch we have a bit more space but I get her legs on top of my lap and I can rub her thighs (no opposition). I eye contact her and she goes “you can’t just stare at me until I kiss you…” and I smile and go in for the kiss. She turns the cheek and rejects and goes “Really that is enough”. Maybe this is where I dropped it but certain things I just don’t push past. So I didn’t try another kiss close and that is it. She is still on top of me with me rubbing her thighs, touching her shoulder, intimate kind of touch. She says she is in a confused situation and trying to figure some things out. I shrug. At some stage I moved her top and tights out of the way and kiss her belly, she started to object that she was fat but I went for it anyway.

    Anyway while in this position (in couch, legs on my lap), she goes “Remember when we talked about who else you were banging? I think I know who it is”. Well obviously from the camping trip her guess is going to be N=3. She beats around the bush a bit saying “It is fine because if it is who I think it is I like her” Eventually she goes “It is N=3 isn’t it” and I grin broadly. She pushes a bit for me to confirm but I don’t, I go “Why don’t you ask her”. Then she goes “You went to the river with her” (she was referring to the bit in the camping FR when I did isolate N=3 for a bit in the morning after the tent sleepovers). I intentionally misunderstand and doing so remind her that on the day before that I went to isolation with Target I and she goes “OMG you didn’t with Target I??” And I smile again. She goes on a bit about Target I’s gorgeous boobs and I go “Yeah you girls were just loving it – the boys were like meh and you girls were all ogling her like this 0_0 “. She goes they are great boobs and I’m like “I’ve seen them before”. Then she goes “You haven’t banged her, you just want me to think that…” and I’m like “Yes absolutely I’m loving this conversation… In fact I was a virgin before you, can’t you see from how inexperienced I am in bed”. She goes on about me being a manwhore and “having a girl in every port” and I go “I just like fucking”.

    Then she is like “You and N=3 would be such a nice couple” and “She is intelligent bla bla” “Why don’t you date her?”. And I’m like Shrug and then go “I don’t want to have a girlfriend…”. Stuff like that.

    At some stage she mentioned that she had some drama recently… In the follow up for the camping trip she stayed a few more days in another city, and someone she had been dating (I didn’t even know she had been dating since me) was also there, but his ex (not her) was also there and she suggested meeting up and he couldn’t so of course in her head the guy was with his ex (and maybe he was).

    So to summarise she proposed to come over, it suited my interests as it gave me another chance in isolation to try to bang her again. I made my move and she put up some rejections and certain rejections I don’t push past. She got some validation as she confirmed I was interested and also annoyed me a bit more with the talk about wanting to know who else I was banging.

    Regarding “Secret society”, she guessed correctly I had banged / am banging N=3, I didn’t confirm.

  4. @IAS

    “She says she is in a confused situation and trying to figure some things out.”

    You’re not playing her game, she’s trying to stuff you in the exclusive boooooyfriend / provider box..

    She’s given up the V twice but it didn’t work, bc she hasn’t got the exclusivity she “wanted” so now her only option is to pull back the v so she’s pulled it back – (very early doors but a long soft next for exclusivity) black dragon:

    https://blackdragonblog.com/2016/11/21/women-leave-return-several-lsnfte-case-studies/?r_done=1

    She’s pulled back so hard after only two bangs bc she’s epiphany phase and running out of time.. tell me I’m wrong..

    Unf. It also means your not in the AF box.

    Not sure how to change that, but if can def be done. Think “cocky arsehole”

  5. By the way I think you might have blown secret society by giving away that you were banging N3.

  6. “a gentleman doesn’t kiss and tell”

    And chaaaàaaaaaaaaange the subject. Otherwise you are still in her frame answering her guesses.

  7. IAS
    How do I know this? Because both N=3 and N=5 (separately) insisted on telling me all about it (ugh).

    Did you laugh? If you did not laugh, why not? This stuff happens pretty frequently, it’s not your concern.
    You’re not their girlfriend. You’re not their gay friend. You don’t owe them any kind of explanation about the SES or the SMV.

    Just be amused by their high school antics.

    Sentient
    ===> going by the book he should be treated like an ugly girl.

    Lol, exactly.

  8. @Palma: I wouldn’t say I gave it away that I was banging N=3.

    She was wondering whether I was banging anyone from the social circle since March, and this is because she saw me return from isolation with N=3. I actually did go for the walk also with the MILF before N=3 woke up. Then N=3 woke up so I went for a walk with N=3. There was nothing else to do in the morning while everyone else is sleeping so it isn’t that suspicious if she wants to think about it.

    Then she went that bit “Oh you didn’t bang (target I) you just want me to think so” bit… And later on the convo she was like “You should invite her to your place and make a move” and I was “Oh, you think she likes me?” grinning. She isn’t sure, she was just suspecting, and even if she becomes sure (I bet she will be paying more attention now) I wouldn’t say I gave it away.

    I agree I’m not in the AF box (if I even was before – I mean “no oral, that’s for bfs” or any other rules are strong indicators that the desire isn’t all the way there).

    @Sentient: I wasn’t that abrupt and fast but I did manage to change the subject. Anyway this time she wasn’t annoying like last time.
    You were saying I was maybe too secret on the secret society – but (assuming I didn’t “give it away” as I think I didn’t) this still seems the correct way to do it. If they want they can talk it out between them, and suspect whatever they want to suspect.

    @Anon: Thanks, it is not that I don’t know, but I was being honest with myself (and with the FR section here) and if something bothers me I’ll own up to it, even if the correct move is not to let it bother me. I’m not a big fan of the girls ganging up on the non-target badmouthing her behind her back (high school antics, indeed).
    In that particular case I did laugh at it, in particular when N=3 was telling me about it, because she went “He handled it well” (he really didn’t).

  9. IAS

    I think you did confirm banging N3 in this part

    Then she is like “You and N=3 would be such a nice couple” and “She is intelligent bla bla” “Why don’t you date her?”. And I’m like Shrug and then go “I don’t want to have a girlfriend…”. Stuff like that.

    I suspect N5 will say something to N3 like “IAS said you where having sex?”
    As if you said it. Or “I hear you are banging IAS” maybe with a “it’s OK I am not anymore” depending upon the power dynamic between them.

    The secret society dynamic is THEY can know you are banging all of them, are a good bang, etc. But it isn’t YOU that tells them. They work it out themselves…

    N3 ” OMG IAS is so hot. Such a great fuck…”
    N5 ” lol. I know right! That thing he does with his tongue… Girlllllll!”
    Target ” wait what?!!! Tell me!”

    So each will know you are discreet and it’s just you being you. And next thing you know a new girl is wanting to share your tent.

    So I expect some drama from this situation. Could be wrong but that is my bet.

    With N5 on the couch you had two choices… Dominate her

    “Girl stop fucking around (hand on face turn her to you.. make out)”

    Or

    Complete roll off… Stop rubbing her while she is going through her Inquisition… Move away. Fiddle with something and express your displeasure, not in a but hurt way, but as a dissapointment. She has disappointed you.

    “Really N5… This talk is unattractive.”

    GGR analysis says ” they don’t come on the lot lest they want to buy”

    And boiler room analysis says ” every sale someone is closing, it’s you or the other person”

    Here she closed you… Palma is spot on. She is playing the pussy card, holding it back for a commitment.

    Incidentally all her talk of “you and N3 make a good couple you should date” is just her projection and running her traps for an angle to put you in her BF slot”…

    What grown ass women comes round a guy’s house she’s already fucked and holds out? One that is flexing some power and trying to get something from you. The C Card.

    If I were you, definitely pare back contact in a non butt hurt way and definitely amp up jealousy plots in front of her with the most attractive girls…

    Don’t chase her.

  10. @Sentient:
    Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t see it that way at all, but maybe Palma and you did and I could be wrong.

    My “Why don’t you date her” reply isn’t confirmation as far as I see it. It was a more general thing like “I don’t want a gf at all” (see below) and to me it seemed clear N=5 was still unsure either way. N=5 probably does want drama but I suspect N=3 won’t play into it. I did explicitly tell N=5 “Why don’t you ask N=3” at the start of that bit of the convo, and I’m fine if she does go and ask N=3.

    Good analysis on the couch, and I legitimately remembered those FRs from Palma with his buddy’s hot wife trying to set Palma up with another friend, so I did spot in real time that the “Why don’t you date N=3” thing could simply be her saying “Why don’t you date me” and responded accordingly.
    I was also aware that she got the “free” validation of me confirming I wanted to bang her still (it was going to be win-win for her basically) but if I wanted to bang I had to make the move myself so there is no avoiding that, but I didn’t need to continue validating her after making my move and getting rejected.
    The roll-off would be the correct move, thanks. I’ll avoid chasing and see if I get instead N=6, whoever the lucky girls ends up being.

    Learning experiences, I’ll report back if it develops.

    1. IAS

      In Catonese “Dating” comes after “fucking”… which you already grinned broadly at… 😉

    1. Could be a strong, independent woman. Or could be the car title and insurance is in her name. Maybe too many points on his license? He doesn’t like to drive?

      Or…it’s a standard transmission? Lots of men can’t drive a stick nowadays.

      lol anyway.

  11. @Sentient

    I’ve been reading @CH on game and its mostly as expected but there’s the odd line where you think “OH DAMN.. THATS where I’ve been flunking it”

    In my case as you know I’ve been hitting much younger women. I’ve been flirting and I’ve got the IOI’s flowing, but time after time I’ve been flunking it when I’ve upped the anti with my “cocky arsehole” approach. The overt public flirt has been frying their hamster and I’ve been sat there scratching my head thinking “damn, I got 6 IOI’s and she’s just blown out”.

    Then I read P 65:

    “You can bang on 18 to 21-year-old surprisingly quickly because I have little ASD.

    Caveat to the above: although you can get the bag with the 18 to 21-year-old very quickly you should not prime the path to banging with obvious signs of physical escalation. There is a high risk was very young women the escalating kino will be perceived as “Percy” or “creepy”. This means no PDA no innocent touching of her erogenous zones and no raunchy sex talk. You want to keep it superficial friendship until she’s in your place. Then you should escalate rapidly you’d be amazed How fast the young woman sheds her clothes when the bang is in site.”

    As usual I’m turbocharging A, when I need to back off and get plausible deniability so I can concentrate on isolation somewhere where it’s just her and me, and work a bit of C…, then hit it.

  12. Palma

    Then you should escalate rapidly

    Cavemanning works. They have no defense to feels at that age, which is why the cock carousel spins.

    I have an 18 yo in sight that is totally up for it. Just feels too young for whatever reason. Iean half of these girls have had NO dad living with them. The other half, 25% zero masculinity.

    It’s really wild how much just a hard masculine vibe and a willingness to check their bullshit and challenge them works on the modern girl.

    I’ve been laying low with corono no travel. And a couple of ” entanglements” from last winter kinda sorta raising up in the back yard. Both situations girls have been asking around about me such that it’s gotten back to me. Which of course is their goal. But it’s ruled them out for bad behavior.

    Any how.. back to checking them. So maybe two weeks ago a sweet little toned honey walked past me as I was having a coffee outside a shop. She was carrying two small weights. Like 1 lb. So a laughed at her and said something about the weights being ridiculous.

    And she turned toe and said “my bigger weights are home” with full eye contact.

    And I held her gaze and smirked and said “yeah yeah that’s what they all say” with full eye contact. And held. And I could see how she wasn’t prepared to process that. She went in and say inside and had her coffee and I left.

    A week later she comes by again and passese from my blind side and mentions something about her weights. And I was like yeah yeah whatever. And she got her coffee and split.

    Today I see her at another coffee place. Now she is dressed not in workout clothes come past me and asks if they need masks here. I tell her yeah they will give you one and some joking around that situation and she gets two coffees and comes out and comes over to my table and engages me.

    She introduced herself and asks my name. I hold out my hand and she takes it and I hold it too long with dire t eye contact. We banter some and get into a 20 minute convo. Lots of me taking the piss. Basic stuff.

    Ten minutes in she mentions her boyfriend for the first time (two coffees) and I ignore that. She asks about my situation and I ignore that. We start talking about her new place (just moved in) and I say there is a bar over there she should try. She also if I go there and I say sometimes.

    So about 15 minutes in she says she should be getting back with the coffee for her boyfriend. Which I ignore again. Then she gets really really specific with when I am at each of the shops, which days, what time… Probably because I didn’t ask for her number. Now I had until now resolved to just not get into any more in town situations…

    So she says she will see me around and looks forward to it. I say yeah it be nice seeing you again with a full laser. And she slinks off.

    I half toyed with idea of cruising by and having her hop in my car. Needed a day to reflect on the recent situations.

    Maybe 30. Tight body. 5’5 110.

    TLDR – they are desperate for some real cock and being put in their place.

    So we will see. She’s hot enough. I will spend more time qualifying her for discretion.

    Did Mention Corona shutting down almost all the bar life sucks?

    1. @Sentient

      So the beach has opened here and the bars still suck for the best part. You get allocated your table in most and can’t “mingle”. Plus seating capacity means they’re only 10% full. You have to follow the one way system which I forget to do and get in arguments with door staff So useless.

      Yesterday I’m walking into town bc I’ve had 6 guys in my air Bnb and they’ve broken the front door lock coming in pissed and I have to replace. I’m not even carrying tool bag, just 2x screwdrivers and 2x sets pliers in one hand. I replace lock and decide to wander to one of my favourite bars (upmarket) where I usually get food but just get espresso today, possibly glass of wine.

      Get met at door by girl I’ve been working on. She’s happy chatty, and place is mostly empty but she has to go ask permission “if I can just get coffee” bc that’s usually a no, but ima regular.

      I’ve been kicking this one round for months. Shes about 24, slim about a 7 and always greets, flicks hair, smiles, looks down. Last time she was in green eye shadow and I’m “hey when did you turn into a parrot, is that even legal”, she’s like “I’m not a parrot”, I’m “don’t talk shit, of course you are and I make a squawk noise” it goes on in that vein.

      Yesterday she leads me to the bar, I dump tools on bar unceremoniously and she’s asking me if I want my usual desert wine and chocolate desert, and I’m “no, I’ll get fat and it’ll be your fault. I’ll have a single espresso, and a sparkling mineral water. But some sugar please”

      She goes and gets sparkling water on first pass, then goes back and gets espresso. I’m like “where’s the sugar” and she turns cup round and there’s one cube hiding other side of it that I didn’t see. (European single espresso is miniature. One lump is all you can get in the cup) So I give her shit about only one cube. She fights back on that “how many cubes do you want in a single espresso.. ?“ and says it in a joking way that implies I’m a fucking peasant for even wanting such a thing – but laughing and eye contact.

      I’m “yer you’re right, I’ll get fat and it will be your fault” she’s like “you’re not fat” and is touching my leg now and leaning in laughing.

      So I’m sitting at this bar with my hairy arse tools and she’s leaning in touching my leg and asking how I’ve been, how is lockdown etc.. I’m making full eye contact, she’s smiling and looking up at me. She’s going on her holiday to Croatia shortly and we talk a lot about that bc it’s beautiful and I sailed there from Mallorca. The trip took a month round the south of Sicily, and We bar hopped port to port but it was 24/7 sailing taking 3 shifts on deck. Six of us. 3x pairs that rotated. Two pairs sleeping and the other pair strapped on with life lines. It was quite hardcore bc were cooking it at 7 knots for the bulk of the trip and on diesel when we had no wind bc some of the guys were on a deadline to get back to their overbearing shrew wives.

      She’s all over this. Hanging on every word. Hair is going behind the ear now constantly. But she doesn’t finish until 11pm and by then it’s tumbleweed on the streets and nowhere to go and I’ve got a total bloody mind blank for plausible deniability. Plus I’ve made the decision not to number close with young women, just straight escalate..

      So I’ve got a mental block on that.. any ideas?

      On a different note another (single) commenter here has moved to my town so I’m hoping for a more clinical diagnosis which will put me under a bit of pressure going forward. I won’t out him but he’ll probably out himself

      1. Palma

        So I’ve got a mental block on that.. any ideas?

        “Yeah it was quite a trip. Come round after work I’ll show you the pictures. Amazing.”

        1. Yeah ok but would involve a time bridge.

          Even if a a specific arrangement was made it would be a Phone number close and a “cooling off period” where she gets to say where she’s going to the “board of directors” at work and they put in their opinion.

          I had hoped for the straight escalation without those potential pitfalls.

    2. @Sentient

      “I have an 18 yo in sight that is totally up for it.”

      I had one of those about a decade ago and my female MD at the time said “don’t do it, she’ll fall in love with you”. Everything else aside and apart from the fact I should have done it, it might be a bit close to home for that. Some waif on your doorstep weeping and wailing.

      “And a couple of ” entanglements” from last winter kinda sorta raising up in the back yard. Both situations girls have been asking around about me such that it’s gotten back to me. Which of course is their goal. But it’s ruled them out for bad behavior.”

      Most of my exes have raised their heads. Plates that I used to bang before I moved that have boyfriends. They’re pinging their Rolodex for Alpha stability bc they’re at sea in a storm with no anchor / uncertain times / useless weak arsed boyfriends.

      Hit the 30 yo toned honey though.

  13. Interesting

    Ran into an acquaintance today. He looked a bit haggard.

    Great guy. 6″, trim, athletic, fun, former frat guy, now successful money manager. 34 or so.

    Has two kids under 4. A house in a great spot. His wife is a solid 7.5… great face. Great body, bounced back quick after the kids.

    I ask him if he has corona. He says no other stuff and eventually spills he isn’t living at home and they are splitting up.

    Don’t get into details with him, but looking back…

    Always caught a little glint in her eye. Was 50/50 over the years wether it was just me thinking she’s hot or if it was really there. Without knowing more… Survey says she strayed.

    He’s pretty broke up. Fifth divorce in the time of corona amongst peeps I know.

  14. I’ve been listening to Kevin Samuels on Youtube – completely red-pilled black image-consultant who tells it pretty raw. Pretty entertaining. I listen to him mostly because of my interests in black girls but don’t think his content is completely black-specific and can be useful to all. I see a lot of what he says is pretty spot-on.

    I listen to him at 1.5 speed…

  15. @Sentient / HABD

    So riddle me this.

    Part posted at WIA

    I’m seeing plate and banging her 3-4 times a week for last 2-3 months. She shows up and we get it on then we either get wine at pub or she leaves / goes home.

    We do all the usual games – domination / rough sex etc.. the rougher the better she likes it. All good.

    Last night she shows and we hit the sack, clothes off and on bed but she’s fighting hard back physically and isn’t letting me progress. Fighting back, clamping legs together biting etc.. and I’m pushing, she’s withdrawing but she’s loving it. Problem is I’m not enjoying it and I think it’s a shit test bc she wants me to desire her / beg for sex / whatever. She’s withholding sex. Making me “work” for it.

    I never do that, and I never “push through LMR” and it’s a wood kill so I do what I always do and say “no problem if you’re not feeling it, well head out and eat (planned anyway).

    I cease and desist and get dressed and she’s like totally taken aback and says “really?” And I say “yeah. We can skip it and go eat.” I think it’s a shit test to get me in her frame qualifying for sex.

    So I book the Uber to the restaurant which arrives in 3 minutes and the trip to the restaurant is another 4 minutes. She’s groping me in the Uber and I’m pushing her hand away – “you had your chance and you blew it” type thing.

    Get to restaurant and have great meal at bar and literally two glasses of wine. She wants to walk home basically to wake me up bc exhausted after staring at 6 bc she wants sex but I’m “nah” and I book an Uber which arrives and we get in that. Come home and go straight to bed & fall asleep.

    I wake at 3 – not unusual but go back to sleep again and she’s jumping my morning wood while I’m still asleep and we get it on.

    Later before she goes she says “you were an arsehole last night, next time I want to be raped try harder”

    I ignored.

    The riddle is this, not that she totally wants to be desired enough that I just “have to have her”, ie.. “rape” her but, which I understand is part of her desire and fantasy but:

    why has the whole episode left me completely and utterly cold towards her. I mean it’s a NADA. I’ve lost total interest. It’s gone, I have no interest in “that” role play whatsoever. The idea is not only a wood kill but has squashed all attraction I had for her?

    Is it just as simple as I like dominating but that means they are literally begging me for sex or submitting to me and I’ve never desired or had to “take” what I want in that way?

    1. Palma

      why has the whole episode left me completely and utterly cold towards her. I mean it’s a NADA. I’ve lost total interest. It’s gone, I have no interest in “that” role play whatsoever.

      Quite simple really. She’s just trying to “top from the bottom” and it hits a nerve with you.

      If you went ahead the sex – the rough “dominant” sex – would all still be in HER frame.

      You like to dominate, not be told to dominate. It’s going to be hard to work that into her rape fantasy.

      One angle is try and really break her down further until she is totally physically and psychologically in your frame. – crawling to you, hands and knees begging, bringing other girls for you. Get deep to that place then maybe work in a rough fantasy where you surprise her someplace. At least then you know she is submitting fully when you grant her the role play.

      1. I think she’s pretty much totally in my frame and looking at it with your analysis this was a last hurrah for her self defence mechanism trying to retain some hand.

        Basically she’s fallen in with feelz and is just gonna totally submit and she’s scared of it.

        Quite easily handled really, is she pushes back again I’ll throw her out. And tell her if she’s good enough she might – just might get her girlie fantasy. When I decide.

        Then I’ll go to the pub.

        Thanks

    2. @PalmaSailor

      @Sentient / HABD

      So riddle me this.

      Part posted at WIA

      I’m seeing plate and banging her 3-4 times a week for last 2-3 months. She shows up and we get it on then we either get wine at pub or she leaves / goes home.

      We do all the usual games – domination / rough sex etc.. the rougher the better she likes it. All good.

      Last night she shows and we hit the sack, clothes off and on bed but she’s fighting hard back physically and isn’t letting me progress. Fighting back, clamping legs together biting etc.. and I’m pushing, she’s withdrawing but she’s loving it. Problem is I’m not enjoying it and I think it’s a shit test bc she wants me to desire her / beg for sex / whatever. She’s withholding sex. Making me “work” for it.

      I never do that, and I never “push through LMR” and it’s a wood kill so I do what I always do and say “no problem if you’re not feeling it, well head out and eat (planned anyway).

      I cease and desist and get dressed and she’s like totally taken aback and says “really?” And I say “yeah. We can skip it and go eat.” I think it’s a shit test to get me in her frame qualifying for sex.

      So I book the Uber to the restaurant which arrives in 3 minutes and the trip to the restaurant is another 4 minutes. She’s groping me in the Uber and I’m pushing her hand away – “you had your chance and you blew it” type thing.

      Get to restaurant and have great meal at bar and literally two glasses of wine. She wants to walk home basically to wake me up bc exhausted after staring at 6 bc she wants sex but I’m “nah” and I book an Uber which arrives and we get in that. Come home and go straight to bed & fall asleep.

      I wake at 3 – not unusual but go back to sleep again and she’s jumping my morning wood while I’m still asleep and we get it on.

      Later before she goes she says “you were an arsehole last night, next time I want to be raped try harder”

      I ignored.

      The riddle is this, not that she totally wants to be desired enough that I just “have to have her”, ie.. “rape” her but, which I understand is part of her desire and fantasy but:

      why has the whole episode left me completely and utterly cold towards her. I mean it’s a NADA. I’ve lost total interest. It’s gone, I have no interest in “that” role play whatsoever. The idea is not only a wood kill but has squashed all attraction I had for her?

      Is it just as simple as I like dominating but that means they are literally begging me for sex or submitting to me and I’ve never desired or had to “take” what I want in that way?

      +1 for @Sentient…

      it IS really simple…

      ‘rape’ is the opposite of ‘desire sex’ (arousal sex)… the two are mutually exclusive… it is even less than BB sex… ie transactional (attraction sex)… bc not only does she not really want it, but she doesn’t want it soooo much that she fights you to get off… and not in a good way…lol

      ‘dominance’ is the ultimate ‘desire sex’… bc the girl is staying in the interaction in spite of the ‘abuse’… and it is obvious that she wants to be there…

      good luck!

      1. So now I am confused… she was trying to induce something she didn’t actually want, or using that to induce what she did actually want?

        Either way, I thought it was the right move to shut it down at the time and not give her either type of sex.

        She was angry as fuck with the morning sex

        1. @PalmaSailor

          i had the feeling i should have explained better…lol… the ‘not really want it’ meant that from your POV a rape fantasy appears as she doesn’t want any sex at all… and will fight you to avoid that happening… = the opposite of desire sex…

          So now I am confused… she was trying to induce something she didn’t actually want, or using that to induce what she did actually want?

          SHE is doing what she does based on her feelings… ie unconsciously… and is trying to solve a problem… sooo, when she gets the feelz and tries to get you into that BB box, she is going to try for a frame grab… based on the parameters of her particular situ/interaction… and in this particular situ she went with the ‘rape fantasy’…

          YOU on the other hand were in your own frame and the whole ‘rape’ thing triggered your ‘no desire sex = GTFO’ button…

          Either way, I thought it was the right move to shut it down at the time and not give her either type of sex.

          it was…

          She was angry as fuck with the morning sex

          and THAT was her emotions trying to solve a problem too…lol

          good luck!

          1. @HABD

            ‘not really want it’ meant that from your POV a rape fantasy appears as she doesn’t want any sex at all… and will fight you to avoid that happening… = the opposite of desire sex…

            Well.. I knew she wanted sex BUT the thing is that I only have sex on my terms. If they try to dominate or call shots I shut down. Standard saying is “my bedroom my rules”; but it’s actually any bedroom my rules.

            Since I’ve understood the difference between desire sex and transactional sex I lose wood if I sense a transaction, and it’s irreversible.

            So the TL;DR is she’s catching feels and feeling the loss of power when she submits to desire sex, which is what she does, and so is trying to get some “hand” by getting “control” of the interaction. Lay down rules, do this to get sex.

            In the meantime it’s beer o’clock here and I’m a bilda at the moment.

            So I’m sitting outside the bar and bought a beer and abag of crisps, there’s a woman next to me and she’s seen my bag of crisps. She’s with 2 white knight chumps, she says “can I have a crisp, it’s for my dog”

            I say “no”

            She rambles some shit, “she can’t afford her own” and I ignore.

            Her and the chumps are astonished. They shit test everywhere in every direction don’t they. Frantically pinging for a hard boundary. Everyone else in the pub would have folded and given her a crisp.

            https://i.imgur.com/nZzuZTa.jpg

          2. Palma

            give me a crisp > hold my bag > buy me a drink > eat my pussy > rape me…

            Just a progression right? lolz

          3. @PalmaSailor

            So I’m sitting outside the bar and bought a beer and abag of crisps, there’s a woman next to me and she’s seen my bag of crisps. She’s with 2 white knight chumps, she says “can I have a crisp, it’s for my dog”

            I say “no”

            She rambles some shit, “she can’t afford her own” and I ignore.

            Her and the chumps are astonished. They shit test everywhere in every direction don’t they. Frantically pinging for a hard boundary.

            can you think of a better way for a girl to ping for AF (or BB provisioning for that matter…lol) in an atomized, anonymous, non-tribal society?… and if you pay attention, you can spot the ‘ping window’ as the ‘no’ hits…lol…

            Everyone else in the pub would have folded and given her a crisp.

            aaand… back to pinging for AF…lol

            good luck!

  16. Update: N=3 was all confused and wanting some space. On part 1 of that particular talk I still grabbed her hand took her to bedroom, banged her and it was very good (probably increasing her confusion).
    The next day after that we get to part 2 because she hadn’t said all she wanted and basically wound up asking about exclusivity. I could see where this was going and I go like “mine or yours” and she was super hesitant in replying. After a bit of “help” from me, she does go “mine” and eventually winds up admitting she is attracted to Mr. T.
    I told her I already knew (and she knows I knew) and that attraction is not a choice. Not sure I managed to come out of this with an overall DHV and not sure it will matter down the line. She is going for some holidays with family and will think about it. We fucked recently, our recent fucks have been quite good and the most recent one was already after the first part of this “wanting some space” as above.

    I knew she was attracted but it is clear she is not just attracted but is now explicitly thinking of fucking him, and her thinking of fucking him is probably recent and triggered by the camping trip.
    I don’t like it as you very well know. I’d like to “claim” her as Sentient would say but I’m not sure how to do that or if I am able to do that (and stay myself openly non-exclusive).

    In the short term during the holidays I just have to give her the space in any case but I’m not happy with this at all. I’m happy at least I saw it coming a mile away, that helped.
    Of course I need to go try to bang new ones (I’ll see if I can seduce some target over the weekend), but I have been regularly banging N=3 for about a year now, the sex has been the best I’ve had and it was very convenient particularly during lockdown.

    You may say it is a self-fulfilling prophecy and that it was in my head causing me to misgame somewhere for this to happen (which is probably true, I know some points where I messed up), but dude is better at the particular hobby than me, physically very strong and shows it as part of the hobby… I may or may not have more game and he may not even want to bang her. I’m still not particularly thrilled if the only reason N=3 doesn’t get banged by him is because he didn’t want to, she is thinking about it.

    Also not sure if I can stay FWB if I do suspect they banged or are banging :/ I don’t want the polyamory BS where she is getting serviced by two guys and I don’t want M-M-F 3-somes.

    N=5 is probably on the same track or further down the line and I don’t care that much anyway.

    N=2 is in my country due to COVID and remote working, and will start new work soon in a nearby country in Europe.
    N=4 is coming back to Europe so there is at least that.
    These ones are still spinning somewhat remotely (N=2 I banged as I came back from the famous camping trip mentioned in recent FRs).

  17. N=3… And now that I had some time to process the reveal, what I want to do (but probably should not do) is to stress that while attraction is not a choice, what you choose to do with it is. But that is likely a DLV.

    It was quite obvious, even explicit, that a great deal of the conflict is that she wanted permission and was feeling “trapped” by it not being non-explicit that we are non-exclusive. What I want to do is to tell her that I don’t mind her feeling attracted, but I do mind if she does fuck someone else… But it is probably a mistake.

    Ugh, even when I’m banging someone else!
    Must remember she isn’t mine, it is – or maybe was – just my turn.

  18. @IAS

    I’ll read it in more detail over cofvefee but this sticks out:

    “What I want to do is to tell her that I don’t mind her feeling attracted, but I do mind if she does fuck someone else… But it is probably a mistake.”

    Firstly, bang her hard and totally own her, preferably tie her to the bed etc..

    Secondly, tell her that she and Mr. T look like a great couple and she should marry him, you’ll give her away at the wedding.

    Then, bang her again.

    Lastly charge Mr.T rent for the space he’s taking up in your head.

  19. @Palma: thanks for the help. I was spinning my hamster.

    It is funny how the “instinct” I have (although I knew better) is exactly the opposite of what I should do. Fortunately I managed to keep it in.

    My plan is to invite her over when she returns (it will be near her ovulation). I had been some specific sexual ideas before.
    I’ll try to go mostly silent during her holidays. Complete silence would be outside my previous behavior with her so can appear butt hurt. Then when she is about to return I’ll provoke her a bit, and invite. If she comes, she cums. If she doesn’t, then she made up her mind with respect to me and I’ll see how it goes for me going forward.

    1. IAS

      +100 to Palma’s advice.

      Part of spinning plates and realizing that most of them are going to drift off to test you and try and force commitment.

      Part of keeping plates exclusive to you is being the guy who realizes this and is unthreatened by this.

      DiCaprio mindset son.

      Now to your feewings…

      1st your true initial instinct is to kill this rival right? Deep down. Don’t try and package that I to something else. Be in touch with it.

      2nd. This is all about your ego. Hypergamous sifting has occurred and you’ve been sorted. The potential for this exists for everyone.

      So take your notes and move on. You were happy to fuck her body and thought that would be the be all and end all. Next time, fuxk her mind. That’s the path to asymmetrical exclusivity.

      Johnny Muscles be damned.

      All in all good problems to have my playa. 😂

  20. The path to bring her back around is to increase intensity with her hotter friends and let that get back to her. “I can’t believe you’ve given up IAS” they say…

    I’d just go no contact unless she is contacting you and then be brief until she comes back around to ” see how your doing”…

  21. Hi guys, just wondering if you can read this comment since I can only still read them via email-notifications.
    Short update:
    The text game works pretty well (thanks to Sentient’s ping-technique).
    As with every activity, as you tear down one wall, you see several more up, like my heavy problems with kino. I realized them at the last two dates, where once I did no kino and on the other one did it in a wrong way.

    However, as one plate falls, new ones can be set up. (is this even correct English?)

    Many thanks to you all, your work helps.
    Do you have any tips on how to learn calibrated kino?

    Have a good day,
    NoNameNumber1

  22. @IAS

    Stop spinning over it.

    It was just a slip of frame, like stepping into quicksand. The societally approved approach is to struggle to get out, its second nature, but if you do that you just sink faster.

    Actually you need to stop moving. You still feel the need to respond to all the shit she says when in fact you can just ignore 99% of it.

    It’s sooo deep seated that almost all of us still slip up.

    I slipped up yesterday. Bc of the current nonsense you have to queue for coffee, so I am and there’s only one outside table which I have my eye on and I’m at the front of the queue.

    A mother and daughter turn up behind me and one is gonna grab the table, and I’m like “damn are you grabbing that” instantly I said it I knew I’d fucked up.

    I should have said “hey, get your beady eyes off that table I’m in front of you in the queue” and I should have doubled down on that to all dissenters. “How rude” etc..

    But I didn’t. I was weak and supplicant and mother smelt it and you could sense her disgust.

    Objectively my SMV was 10x hers but one beta move blew it.

    Mother said “hmmm.. what are you going to do now”.

    I’m fucked bc nowhere to sit and I’ve loused it so I shrug and say “I won’t bother with coffee”…

    You could feel her legs closing in real time.. I walk off cursing at myself.

    Problem is that I’m not a natural complete and utter arsehole. That has its upsides and it’s downsides but needs to be recognised

  23. @Palma: many thanks. You had my back when I got N=3 and you had my back now.

    Update: she pinged me for my schedule, told me hers. I kept mine and she comes home almost 2 hours earlier to allow for it to happen… I get there, acted like usual, proceed to get her to suck me until I’m really hard then bang her in the bum. No talk about feeling “confused” or “trapped” at all, she is all smiley and caring.

    Verdict: It was a massive compound shit test and I passed. I had been slipping and she almost got me with it, but I managed to ace it during the reveal. I could have fucked it up when I was alone with my thoughts but didn’t, in part thanks to Palma helping me snap back to reality.
    It was closer than I would have liked, you can see from my posts above I was spinning my hamster quite fast.
    She is still attracted to the guy (and to Brad Pitt, I regularly joke about him with her)… And she may wind up banging him… Or not.
    That is her nature which I thought I had accepted but when tested I barely passed. I know I will get tested again one way or the other and I’ll be stronger.

    @Sentient: thanks. I only saw your messages now [after the bang].
    You are right of course. I make a point of fucking her mind (and I did a bit during the reveal) and that was crucial.
    I also did start thinking bad things about the guy, when he never did me any wrong. He made a silly joke in front of N=3 and N=5 to which I reacted too much to, that is on me not on him.

    Good problems to have indeed, opportunities for real growth that isn’t just theory.

    P.S. I tried to post this yesterday but my posts weren’t coming through for whatever reason.

  24. IAS

    Verdict: It was a massive compound shit test and I passed.

    Nice…

    Speaking of shit tests Palma

    Mother said “hmmm.. what are you going to do now”.

    There it is… The socially unacceptable thing would be to say “we’ll I’ll let you join me” and sit (if that was possible).

    Nonamenumber1.

    Who dis?

    Do you have any tips on how to learn calibrated kino?

    How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

    Praaaaaactice!

    https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/vhie130501/16768511-vindicarloescalationladder

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kmZa-dtruFI

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=csnQWDPD9Ps

  25. I’m a huge huge fan of early lino and strong boyfriend posture lino.

    Nothing seperates you from an AFC or nice guy faster than lino with strong eye contact.

    Yes it’s “risky”… Lol

    That’s the point.

    You have to take the shot and be prepared to roll off if if you get a string negative reaction. But that may also just be a shit test… See how that works?

    So early in the convo touch her arm to make a point, use the back of your hand… Or when she tells you her name shake her hand and hold just a few beats too long with eye contact.

    As things warm up get more physical. Turn her at the elbow to move her out of the way, put your hand on her shoulder to bring her in speak in her ear. Eventually take her hand and lead her to another part of the venue to talk.

    The goal of lino is trust. Not arousal!!!

    Boyfriend lino works because it feels familiar to her. Comfortable. Like you’ve already fucked her a dozen times.

    But you have to break the touch barrier and bust a move.

  26. @Sentient

    Yeah. I knew it in real time.

    Only a two seat table, one would have to have sat on my lap. That’s prob the line. “Hey that’s my table but if you can tell me a joke you can sit on my lap”.

    She was a would not bang but the place was filled with would bangs and overtly passing the ST is commutative.

    Anyway.. muh..

  27. “The goal of lino is trust. Not arousal!!!”

    You can flick her ear for being cheeky. That way you can calibrate breaking societal taboo with the restraint that she’s hardly been touched.

    As an aside I’m in my local pub the other night and there’s a bloke mid 40’s, professional job etc.. and we’re chatting shit.. I leave bc he’s boring me and I limit my drinking.

    Next day, mid 20’s bar manager says to me: “do you know him?”

    I don’t and I say no.

    She’s like “god he was in tears last night telling me how I reminded him of my ex.. yuck… gross..”

    She’s grossed out and doesn’t want to be anywhere near him. On the other hand her and I are going to buy a sailboat for her to live on and it involves staying on it overnight and sailing it back from where it is to where we live which is at least 10 hours and she’s “really looking forward to it”.

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