Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

16,091 comments on “Field Reports

  1. Pass this on for amusement.

    Stepped out early evening other night. Head into the local solo. Walking by the bar looking for a seat my arm is tugged from a low table.

    Turn around and its the husband of a woman involved around with and her. She says hey come join us. In play up the whole not interfering with “date night” thing. Emphasizing how cute it is etc.

    See an empty bar seat right across from them. It’s next to a good looking woman I know, who stopped by walking her dog a few months ago to tell me how lucky my wife was, that I’m exactly what she is looking for. And next to her is a rapidly declining friend of hers who strait up propositions me three or for years ago.

    I turned her down then, she was all it doesn’t matter you’re married just come round. Had to be delicate in declining because she was getting g a bit unglued that I declined her. And she looked like a different person then… 😆 🤣

    So grab a seat and the good looking one is all chatty and kinoing, so much so declined is just sitting there the other side of her all excluded. And married girl is right behind watching it all.

    Eventually declined gets up and puts her arm around each of us and is rubbing both our backs and saying she is going g but we should stay and have a good t.i.me. pretty funny. Good looking says blah blah hold on a bit, walk me to my car its dark. She says this twice to declined. I dont bite on the moment to take over those duties. But that was the play. “OK goodnight, have another glass I’ll see out.”. Married watches the whole scene.

    So they leave. Place is emptying. Married calls over and again invites me to come sit with them, next to her. I again decline, date night so cute etc.

    Then a solid 8 I know and we’ve flirted a bit comes in and sits a few seats away. She is always with her husband, but is alone. So I turn away from married and start to chat her up. Get her laughing, catch up a bit. Turns out husband is parking. They are celebrating the 10th anniversary of their first date. I tease her about this and she says yeah she had no idea this is his thing.

    So what’s be tter than a 9? I slutty 8 and she is it. Now pay attention Stefan. Husband comes in. 5’6, 130 lbs. Balding. It’s the oddest combo and everyone scratches their head at it. But they’ve been going forever and she usually has her hand on his leg and he is always very protective and draped all over her.

    So he comes down sees me chatting her, which he’s seen before and comes down and says hey how you been blah blah. Then asks if I know some other guy. Here’s where I say “he in porn?” And he scoffs… I lol. He goes and drapes all over 8.

    Then married and hubby head out.. she comes over and hugs me as im seated..

    After a bit i head out when 8 and her guy do. Later that week I see married walking her dog with her kids and she interrogates me about what I did after she left, how long I stayed, how I knew 8 etc….. 😆 🤣

  2. @Sentient

    I haven’t been able to swim for a while now. I’ve not been well. I’m trying to make some plans and I’m asking a few hard questions that to be honest I never really resolved.

    @Palma,

    I didn’t really have anymore to say about your ex-wife or ex-girlfriend, but if you want an answer, I can’t say why your ex-wife hates you, unless of you did something pretty egregious to her in the past (like commit a serious crime against her), which I don’t think you did. Whilst your ex-girlfriend and your ex-wife have evolutionary urges, I’m questioning whether it means they must act on them, or if we think they should be morally justified in doing so. If you believe the chap who’s married to your ex-wife is at fault for her actions, do you think you are to blame for your wife’s actions against your son?

    Did I know that women will slaughter/despise a man for showing weakness? I was bought up to believe that women were irrational, cruel, and completely justified for doing so, for any reason that they saw fit, and that I was responsible for their emotions. I don’t believe that anymore.

    @IRL

    Am I worried about a women turning on me? If I’m to try and raise a family one day, then it’s a big concern. I want to make the right choices. I also need to seriously consider what I do as I get older. It’s why I’m asking these questions. I’m also wondering if it’s too late, I noticed that most happy couples, married young, and stayed married.

    Am I feeling nihilistic? No, but I think it might be the sickness of our time.

    Past relationships? 10 years, happy, until she got sick.

    When I used the term “sad” I was most definitely not speaking not from the feminine imperative, rather thinking about a sham marriage to an amoral/ruthless/possibly mad woman and what it can do to any children from that marriage, particularly little boys.

  3. @Sentient
    LOL

    6:45 was the first spot he could have got the kiss… there were a couple of others… And those were great spikes, not faked…

    This one at 4:41 is pretty funny too… with the big reveal at 11:16 (note the kino lol):

  4. @ChubkyMonkey

    “Did I know that women will slaughter/despise a man for showing weakness? I was bought up to believe that women were irrational, cruel, and completely justified for doing so, for any reason that they saw fit, and that I was responsible for their emotions. I don’t believe that anymore.”

    The “reason they see fit” is the subconscious hindbrain filtering out losers, in favour of winners that can protect them.

    So, it looks like you were bought up red pill and you’ve turned blue pill.

    It’s for you / us to manage them. Of course you could “expect” some standards etc.. to pull through at their end but don’t hold your breath. Cats need to survive so they will be cats.

  5. @Sentient

    “Had to be delicate in declining because she was getting g a bit unglued that I declined her”

    All you gotta do is flick some wine at her – sorts that shit straight out lol

    “and she says yeah she had no idea this is his thing.”

    Nah not swallowing that she’s DHV’ing herself (DLV’ing him) in front of you to imply her SMV is higher than his – ergo she’s in for a shot with you.

    “she usually has her hand on his leg and he is always very protective and draped all over her.”

    I’ve seen this where the two are just like slobbering puppies all over each other and I don’t really buy that either. One of the two is playing the game. ** more on that below.

    “He goes and drapes all over 8.”

    Mate guarding – but I’m surprised this doesn’t ping her hamster. Even before I took TRP my ex used to place her hand on my shoulder when we were at parties and I called it out.

    “Later that week I see married walking her dog with her kids and she interrogates me about what I did after she left, how long I stayed, how I knew 8 etc….. 😆 🤣”

    Interestingly today I was driving along back to my place and there she was – like an illusion !! Lol – my ex wife. She was out with the dog and bending over picking up it’s shit. (We do that over here and put it in a bag and bin it). She was looking pissed off.

    I had always refused the dog thing because I always believed when it was demanded by the woman that it was a cock block. A means of avoiding banging the husband / weekends away / etc.. it’s a dependent that needs attention.

    ** So I’m back where I used to live and walking the streets with another old friend (because everything is shut again – so we’ve bought beer in tins and sandwiches and were walking his dog talking shit).

    This old friend is a different one to the other one. This one is a working class Alpha blue pill made good and very wealthy. I didn’t even know the scale until he dropped a bollock and said something by mistake.

    He admits he’s “old and married” so he gets his sexual fulfilment by living “vicariously” through me. I say it doesn’t have to be that way and gave him TRM years ago but he hasn’t read it.

    Women are not a total mystery to him but he queries things like “some of the women at the tennis club have been questioning whether My marriage is “happy” why would they care if my marriage is “happy” @Palma?”

    Palma: “errr maybe summink to do with the GT3RS in the car park? Or it might be the Range Rover, Orrrrt you’ve just bought all four of your kids a flat each? I dunno?”

    And he’s like “really? So what do you mean by that?”

    And I had to spell it out: “Yer, they’ll come in and bust your marriage to get a shot with you”

    Then a Woman the carbon copy of the Blonde I flicked at (but jet black hair) – about 50 and physically banging hot – walks out of local food store. She’s similar except that her false tits gotta be 500cc each. At least. Pornstar proportions.

    He says “what do you make of that? She turned up at the tennis club a year ago and within 6 months she’s moved in with this guy that was at the club and now she’s driving round in that £300k Aston Martin. And that’s her name on the private plate – and that’s worth another £100k”

    Values seem a bit high to me but I don’t challenge him bc he’s probably right (he part bankrolls a local exclusive car dealer for a bit of fun)

    So he goes on to say that “they’re all over each other at the tennis club”.

    And I’m – “yeah I’m sure they are”.

    1. Yeah I’ve been trying to distance myself from her. Put her in the friend zone. Every few months she texts and tries to reinitiate contact.

  6. Palma, your ex reminds me of a friends ex wife. A total control freak and BPD. He got sole custody in court because everyone instantly sees she’s crazy, but she still managed to mentally poison the kids against him to want to stay with her. And he gave up in the end and let them, there was no other choice. He just had to hope things will turn around eventually. And this year they started to, the kids are maybe 10 and 12 or around that age and they themselves started to pick up that she’s mental and now want to stay mostly with him. I guess your ex stays levelheaded enough on the surface though? This friend’s ex was just off the charts cray. But any kind of crazy, the bad thing is that it’s unlimited, can’t be beaten (save for destruction), push it and it flares up just stronger.

    It’s a control thing, she hates you because she can’t control you anymore and still sees you as high value.

  7. Hi guys!

    Here’s the report about Tuesday night.

    Tuesday noon the target asked if 8:30 was ok, I replied with something like “sounds acceptable”.
    At about 7:30 I realised I missed some soda for making spritzer (is that noun correct? It’s a mix of wine and soda), as people usually prefer that over pure cider, which can have a little hard taste.

    At around 8:40 they arrived, we went around the place a bit, they were somehow impressed as I live in the 7th floor of the dormitory with nicest view over the area.
    We sat down, had some cider and a lot of fun. As Palma supposed I reserved most of my interest to the target’s friend – to which both responded very well actually. Also you could watch how attraction got lost as when the target got more attention, so I kept it mostly to her friend.

    tl;dr: My huge problem continued: missing escalation. Actually a lot of this could have been avoided, if I would have seated us differently.
    We took place around the kitchen table, one of us at one side each, which made for way too large distances.

    Anyway it was pretty interesting, how what they said about their (ex-)boyfriends just proves every red-pill aspect, about needy beta boys and contradicting expectations (AF-BB).
    We talked about that a lot after 11, shortly after midnight they left.
    I am actually not sure if I am going to game the target pretty hard the coming days, but I should give it a shot as it won’t do any harm as well.

    Fun fact: This morning I had some microscopical training at the university (the only time to go there every two weeks) and after it walked around to my place with two girls (originally three, but one 24y.o. left on the way) to show us our different rooms.
    On the stairs I met target’s friend again and you could tell from her face how staggered she was about me just carrying two other girls into my room. Might just game the new ones, because: why not.

    1. I met target’s friend again and you could tell from her face how staggered she was about me just carrying two other girls into my room.

      This.

      Have you read Mystery Method yet? The Game is constantly on. Pawns, pivots, merging, jealousy plots, pre-election etc.

      See the room. This goes for tactical decisions like seating etc.

      Keep going.

      1. Well, I always wanted to read it, but as a cheap student I hesitated and read Magic Bullets (which I got from here). Am probably gonna purchase it the next days, as well as “The Game” if you can recommend that.

  8. @ChunkyMonkey

    I was pondering on how to respond to you, but I don’t think you need more words.

    You need different reference experiences. Which you get only when you act/do.

    Sounds like you’ve spent years building logical structures that explain why the world makes you feel a certain way and justify what you’ve decided to do about it. Which is fuck all if you put the locus of control outside yourself. It’s “feelz over realz” for men.

    There are many little tells in your writing showing that you’ve retreated to your comfort zone (despite not being happy about it); that you believe your moral compass is better than others (despite being torn); that you’re hoping to meet an age appropriate snowflake (despite knowing better).

    What happened to the guy who was just starting to meet women out in the wild and get first numbers? I hope it didn’t end up “not feeling right”, not bringing you the expected ROI and stopping early in the process?

    I also need to seriously consider what I do as I get older. It’s why I’m asking these questions. I’m also wondering if it’s too late, I noticed that most happy couples, married young, and stayed married.

    You’re 30-something, right? So what’s this about? That you can’t find/connect with younger girls and all that’s left is to marry a post-wall “age appropriate” woman? How’s that FI treating you?

    When I used the term “sad” I was most definitely not speaking not from the feminine imperative, rather thinking about a sham marriage to an amoral/ruthless/possibly mad woman and what it can do to any children from that marriage, particularly little boys.

    You’re in a particular corner of the internet and you’ll see a lot of this language. Get different reference experiences. Get rid of limiting beliefs… that are there only to justify why you’re not leaving your comfort zone. Rewind and start small. You’re overthinking it at the moment.

  9. @SilentBob

    “It’s a control thing, she hates you because she can’t control you anymore and still sees you as high value.”

    Yep I’m quite sure that’s where it’s at. And I didn’t really think of the ramifications from their point of view, this stuff literally defines the rest of their lives.

    My dad used to say “if she marries a dustman she’s a dustmans wife, but if she marries a prince she’s a princess”

    And you only have to look at how the SMV flips. Yeah my ex wife Is with some guy that doesn’t do it for her. And yeah she wanted me back. Without being big headed about it, I don’t suppose that has changed.

    But how do I leverage that to get my son back?

    you’re right, having alienated him and fucked me over, she’s out of ammunition. From her POV no amount of fire power will be enough. My punishment would be eternal if she could inflict it.

    1. My punishment would be eternal if she could inflict it.

      On the late Spearhead site I recall a man commenting a few years ago about his frivorce. It was the usual unhaaaapiness. He was surprised to find that she had kept dragging out the legal aspects; there really wasn’t any financial gain to it, but she kept slow-walking some things. His attorney was female, and one day she explained to him that basically his ex wanted to make the process last as long as it could, because it meant he was being told “Bad man!” over and over again. It was vindictive. Coulda been worse, of course, but the mindset involved stuck with me. Some women just want a Big Daddy judge to smack their ex, the rejected husband, over and over again for the feelze. Yeah, endless punishment because “feelze”.

      That man was one of several over years at Spearhead who reported how after his child(ren) got out from under their mother’s thumb, they came to realize a few things, and he got along with those children better. But it took a few years.

  10. @Anonymous Reader

    “That man was one of several over years at Spearhead who reported how after his child(ren) got out from under their mother’s thumb, they came to realize a few things, and he got along with those children better. But it took a few years.”

    Thanks for that. Sometimes I need reminding..

  11. @PalmaSailor

    “The “reason they see fit” is the subconscious hindbrain filtering out losers, in favour of winners that can protect them. So, it looks like you were bought up red pill and you’ve turned blue pill.”

    Do you include in that women who behave like that toward their own children? I don’t think it’s the job of little children to protect their mothers. Do you think you are responsible for what your ex-wife is doing to your son?

    I don’t think you are. I have a friend in a very similar situation to you, luckily he was never married to the women, but it seems to me she’s using their little boy as a means to get back at my friend for leaving. The woman is clearly neglectful and abusive yet the courts have given her most of the access (this is despite her making up a claim that my friend was threatening her and being caught out for lying). The access my friend gets is pitiful, on one particular evening of the week he gets 1 hour with his boy, which doesn’t even give him enough time to get home, so all he can do is go to the supermarket and do the weekly grocery shop with him.

    When the lock down ended and my friend got his son for one weekend, the boy’s hair had not been cut, his fingernails had got so long they were all broken and ragged, he hadn’t been bathed and his clothes were too small and were dirty. When the little boy knew he had to go home on Monday morning he started hitting himself in the head saying that he didn’t want to go because “mummy never plays with me and I don’t want to be alone”.

    When my friend reported this to social services their response was “it’s just different parenting styles”.

    The boy is 6 years old now, will not eat properly and struggles to use a knife and fork because all his mother feeds him is junk food from fast food restaurants (it affects the little boys moods because of the constant ups and downs from all the sugar he is eating). I think he also struggles to play properly with other children his own age, almost always running away and hiding inside when he’s losing a game or doesn’t get his own way.

    The penny fully dropped for me with regard to my thinking when about 2 years ago I fell ill and was left dazed and incapacitated sitting on the floor and the women in my family stepped around me like a nuisance whilst they did their hair and make up. When a doctor finally saw me (my Mother resentfully called for help when after several hours I didn’t get any better), he took a couple of my vital signs and said “You’d better get him to a hospital”, it was then I finally realised their behaviour was a pattern that went back as far as I could remember, that the women in my family are messed up, and I am not responsible, nor have ever been responsible, for the terrible way they behave

    I compare all of those examples to the woman my brother is married to, and the girl I was with for 10 years, and there’s a huge difference. Perhaps they way I was treated and my brother is, is in someway down to their belief that we were/are in some way “alpha males” and the way we dealt with our burden of performance, but I just don’t see the same vindictive/impulsive nastiness in them.

    The way “Cats are cats” is being used, seems a little like Rollo’s post on “it’s just your turn”.

    @IRL

    “You’re in a particular corner of the internet and you’ll see a lot of this language. Get different reference experiences. Get rid of limiting beliefs… that are there only to justify why you’re not leaving your comfort zone. Rewind and start small. You’re overthinking it at the moment.”

    I think I’ve summarised some of my thinking above.

    Thanks for being a rubber plant, I think I have a plan. My only worry is getting blindsided by someone truly devious.

  12. @PalmaSailor

    @Anonymous Reader

    “That man was one of several over years at Spearhead who reported how after his child(ren) got out from under their mother’s thumb, they came to realize a few things, and he got along with those children better. But it took a few years.”

    Thanks for that. Sometimes I need reminding..

    +1 on @AR’s advice…

    i’ve had several buddies that have gone through the same situs… most of them end up with a good relationship with their kids… it seems to work out that the more the man reacts (confirming mom’s opinion) the less good the relationship ends up being… but mostly they ended up on good terms with their kids… in other words, making some mistakes isn’t fatal to ending up with a great relationship…

    however, one did not… he reacted to everything mom did ‘tit for tat’… ended up that the kids never wanted to have anything to do with him… even after they realized mom was a b*tch…lol…

    and that was in spite of several of his friends (including me) telling him not to… and that was long before i got any RP ingested…lol… even then, it was like watching a slow motion train wreck… (guess who’s frame he was living in…lol)

    based on everything you’ve told us, i think you will end up with a great relationship with your son… it might take some time though…

    just keep playing…

    good luck!

  13. So online dating this is the text exchange – as we speak she’s coming over tomorrow night apparently.

    https://imgur.com/a/4QRQzxn

    I have to say I’m not taking it the online thing very seriously, but it has to be said, lockdown has made it totally different – women are VERY keen to meet and this one is supposedly 31 and 5’10” and lives in Chelsea – which is a red flag.

    Most people claim to live there don’t / it’s a gambit from a prostitute.

    I don’t want some butter in my place but you boys could vote on whether I should meet her in the park and suss her out…

    1. Yeah getting strange vibes off this one Palma. Very awkward responses from her.

      I’d meet a neutral site. But I’m not an online guy. Maybe they are all like that?

  14. She’s either a brass or nuts.

    And it’s not like I’m short of dates to be honest.

    It’s hotting up here fast for some reason.

    1. Palma thanks for the entertaining virtual FR

      By her own admission she had “the virus” it caused a stroke (Plausible but could be a sympathy ploy).

      She thinks your pics are a scam = gaslighting as hers are a sham.

      She is scared to meet in person and an admited excuse maker.

      Looks to me like you missed out on some kinky sex with a half paralyzed spaz flopper with a frown smile.

      Another cripple gets kicked to the curb and another bullet dodged.

    2. Absolute torrent… look at those time stamps..

      great example of devalidation making her chase you if it’s real. Starting to think it was.

      Can always test her on the video chat.

  15. @Palma

    I don’t think that’s a prostitute. She seems insecure and you were just plowing through regardless, so some of her responses in the first exchange are due to your miscalibration.

    See, you were focused on your membership and meeting women in real life etc. She was trying to make sure you wouldn’t reject her for her stroke-related condition (my guess is there was something in her profile to hint at this, hence your mention of RSI = repetitive strain injury). She was unwell due to the virus (recently), but the stroke had happened before. Read her messages again, this time in slow-mo.

    She wanted to front load this info and make sure you were ok with her condition. You missed it and started sending mixed signals. She’s insecure and low self-esteem, so didn’t want to hop on a video call as she wasn’t feeling sexy for that. But when you invited her over, she took it as a good sign = your acceptance of her condition. It’d give her time to prepare a bit more and it’s also more difficult to reject someone in front of you over dinner. Whereas you could have changed your mind over a non-committal video call just like that. She didn’t want to risk it.

    This “what’s wrong with you” was kicking a cripple again… Literally, because she thinks of herself as a cripple. Slow your roll, tiger.

    The last exchange is her not understanding why you’re rejecting her. She’d prefer this honesty upfront. She doesn’t know you think she’s a prostitute. She’s really confused and had her hopes to meet a guy who’s ok with her. Hence the overrunning exchange at the end. It’s her hamster working through emotions of this unexpected rejection.

    Homework: find your sticking point / blind spot. And no, it’s not texting.

    1. IRL, consider that the sticking point is actually a well developed survival instinct.

      Experience teaches us to cut our losses so we develop a set of parameters for interactions for desired results. When people fall outside those parameters then things aren’t going to work out and we cut our losses. Sooner is better than later.

      I could tell a story of a man without that instinct who wound up feeling sorry for the woman,slept with her (a sympathy fuck) to boost her moral and wound up married to a gal with low self esteem in a chaos controlled hell.

      After some age and experience (if we survive it) we develop political and policy views that fit our survival and anyone that doesn’t agree or at least accept them can go suck a fish.

  16. @IRL

    It’s got Russian hooker written all over it. You can tell from her grammar that English isn’t her first language, but she’s passing off as Irish, complete with Irish sounding name and photo with red hair and other non descript stuff on her profile.

    Her what’s app is a “business” profile showing her business as “finance”, but the what’s app photo has a very different vibe of “glamour” as opposed to “professional”

    She doesn’t live in Chelsea, no fucking way. That’s like claiming to live in the Hamptons or Martha’s Vineyard to you American boys. You know no one living there is scratching around and making a 1.5 hour trip out to the boonies to go to some blokes house they met online on a Saturday night.

    And if I’d gone ahead with letting her into my space then it would have gone to shit very fast.

    She pulled every lever she could, trying to get into my space.

    And yes, the rejection did blow her head up because she couldn’t give away what she usually charges for so it did turn into a head fuck for her, and she needed the validation of turning it round.

    That or she really wanted to try my raspberry vinegar!

  17. @Stuffinbox

    “IRL, consider that the sticking point is actually a well developed survival instinct.”

    Yep.. that’s what it is.

    We’re back to the mad gas man and his theory that there’s no such thing as gut feeling, it’s your sub conscious seeing behavioural patterns it recognises.

    1. The mad gas man likes the smell of his own farts.

      My gut is telling me not to go bang the little redhead down the road tomorrow while the wife is out of town.
      My cock say otherwise.

  18. We went for months where we didn’t know anyone who got covid. Then we got covid…and my brother’s family hundreds of miles away…and a friend’s family here in town whom we haven’t seen for months…probably 70 more friends have had it.

    We were prepared and treated as soon as symptoms occurred and it was no big deal. Symptoms cleared in 24 hours. Then we got hit again and symptoms cleared in 12 hours the second time.

    But we weren’t fooled by all the propaganda about covid, so we had an unfair advantage.

  19. There’s a story that matches the topic… lol

    A few years back, a friend agreed to have his Tinder action taken care of. The goal was to tweak his profile, get him on dates… and have a laugh in the process. He wanted to see all text exchanges and pics before agreeing to meet any girl in person, but apart from that nothing was off limit. Oh the lolz…

    The first girl looked ok-ish… although the cropped shots from above were telling if you know what to look for… No matter, the messages were flowing and she was keen. After some texting, she even sent a tittie pic. What should a man do? He was up for the first date, decided to invite her over for dinner and she agreed. Being a nice guy he is, he offered to drive 40-60 minutes to pick her up and then again to bring her back home (ya I know).

    So there she was, a small person in her big coat waiting for him on the street. He stopped the car and got out to greet her. It was late and dark, so he couldn’t see her well at first… until he approached her. He went for a hug and it’s when it started to sink in: she felt bigger than he’d thought… lol. I don’t know what was going through his mind, but he decided to be a decent guy and brought the fattie back to his place.

    He served roasted meat and veg… as you do on a first Tinder date. She was picky and declined everything… but potatoes (lolz). They ate and moved to a comfy place to watch Netflix. Everyone knows Tinder is for Netflix and chill, right? So the chill was there too: she was sitting next to him in the dark and the only thing he could hear was her heavy breathing and wheezing… LOL

    Now, this didn’t lead to anything, he just took her back to her place after this, but the boys had a proper laugh. And when a girl in a wheelchair got hooked, decided it’d be too much and stopped the experiment.

    I don’t know guys. Maybe girls get on Tinder when hungry and do want to come over for dinner? LOL

  20. @stuffinbox
    IRL, consider that the sticking point is actually a well developed survival instinct.

    Not thinking about “letting her into his space” (and I wouldn’t either). That happened later.

    I’m looking at this more meta… more like “bat to the fence” vs. “pulling someone into your world”.

    @Palma
    It’s got Russian hooker written all over it.

    Maybe a cripple or a wheezing fattie? Or she used to have a dick… lol

    You can tell from her grammar that English isn’t her first language, but she’s passing off as Irish, complete with Irish sounding name and photo with red hair and other non descript stuff on her profile.

    You could field test our two opposite views you know. For fun and practice. Even if she’s a hooker, she’s still just a girl. What say you @HABD?

    You could turn it around and have a call with her to check. Then (if she sounds Irish) meet on a neutral ground of your choice.

    Could tell her your friends had warned you there are nutters on these apps and that’s why you went cold. But you slept on it and thought you’d see if she’s cool after all… “hands off the merchandise” / no strokes though lol…

    She doesn’t live in Chelsea, no fucking way. That’s like claiming to live in the Hamptons or Martha’s Vineyard to you American boys.

    Disability benefits / council flat? Staying with friends? Ex-husband’s skeleton in the closet? Rich dad? Comes with the job… but has flatmates?

    I remember this 30yo career girl who was steering me away from her apartment… because she’d moved back in to her single mom’s (as I found out later)… lol

    You know no one living there is scratching around and making a 1.5 hour trip out to the boonies to go to some blokes house they met online on a Saturday night.

    Didn’t she ask you where you live?

    And if I’d gone ahead with letting her into my space then it would have gone to shit very fast.

    You talking about Hillary vs Donald again? Let go man… lol

  21. @PalmaSailor

    Looking over some of your text exchanges, it could be that you are too much for these older girls.

    You’re revving up to 7,000 & they can’t take it.

    Kinda like this…

  22. @AnonymousReader

    “You’re revving up to 7,000 & they can’t take it.”

    Well Ken miles was a boy wasn’t he.

    So in that second exchange I’d already smelt a rat and decided I wasn’t doing it so I was spinning her up for sport, and she did go like a champ didn’t she.. lol..

    @IRL

    “Or she used to have a dick… lol”

    Dunno – whadya a think – https://imgur.com/a/Ffz63qT

    Anyway, I get that in the interests of !SCIENCE! we’re gonna have to conclude this so I’ll pull her back into orbit by claiming all my mates (you lot) had warned me that ALL online women were bonkers or prostitutes and let’s get cofvefee on a park bench somewhere.

    BUT it needs the Dundee test as a minimum:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fsmJxjfP9jo

    It could be – and this didn’t occur to me at the time – that she’s completely legit and was just blown away by my frame and pushback. The world is so full of weak men she’d never experienced push back like some random bloke gave her.I dunno 🤷‍♂️

    1. Palma

      It could be – and this didn’t occur to me at the time – that she’s completely legit and was just blown away by my frame and pushback.

      That’s what I meant by devalidation. Those responses, look at the timestamps. It’s instant stream of consciousness. And she argues like a girl, keeps restating her position and deflecting any responsibility i.e. “the vibe wasn’t off” which means “it’s not my fault” and “it’s got nothing to do with me”.

      The image link is broke.

      Good on you for testing further. I can say I’ve a few FR where I thought the girl was a pro or an amature where and blew the situation up. Hazards of the professional cynic.

      Good luck.

      1. Oh you might try and find some old Julien RSD clips on the power of devalidation to get girls chasing.

        Yareally had a few posts on it.

      2. Palma

        The easiest way to describe it is that he devalidates the girl, then changes conversation threads before giving her a chance to qualify herself, and then he stacks that multiple times like Mystery’s multiple threading conversation technique and gets her extremely invested in trying to qualify herself to you and then after a while smoothly allows her to “win him over”, creating HUGE investment on her part which triggers a chain reaction back to her hamster that says “if I’m chasing him this hard he must be high value”. It’s brilliantly devious. [ed: indeed.]

        Do you see how, I don’t know- raspberry vinegar – fits in here 😳 😅

  23. @Sentient

    Actually, our resident private investigator @IRL has tracked her down and she’s legit.

    Honestly, It was a bombshell, I seriously, and I mean seriously had her down as a fake, and I did go all out to blow it up having decided to push it as far as it could go.. And it didnt blow up – not really.

    The link was to her online dating photos so I thought twice and chopped it. I was gonna post some random guys online dating profile for feedback as well.

    Anyway watch this space

  24. @Sentient

    “Hazards of the professional cynic”

    I’ts a high penalty. They arrive, its a great night, they bang, and then they want munny. And if no money then its an allegation…

    Its a standard operating procedure.. but hey.. It did have the wrong vibe, and just because she’s legit, doesn’t mean she’s not nuts.

    It was still a situation where she was heading out the the boonies to meet a guy from the internet at his place. Most women wouldn’t do it.

    1. It was still a situation where she was heading out the the boonies to meet a guy from the internet at his place. Most women wouldn’t do it.

      Some smart guy on a blog said something like

      “Women make rules for betas and break rules for alphas”

      And

      “If a girl wants to face you she will find a way to do it”

      My best successes have been from a frame b of absolute entitlement and “of course she wants to fuck me”

      And my biggest failures from a hedged position…

    1. PALMA , I will give you a solid 9 on the text turnaround frame battle. However all I know about online and text dating is what I’ve gleaned here. Now she is looking to get a weekend commitment?

      On the whole find a girl interaction I will give it a 5 in Deuce Bigelow points.

    2. I’ll follow Sentient on this from a RP-forum-viewpoint, yet from my place in game it looks like a 9.5.
      By the way: Do you all think she completly lost it – like, her Hamster now runs like a 5 year old after 10 bottles of coke?

  25. @PalmaSailor

    wow!… 3!!! “silly’s”…lol…

    and overall just a bunch of ‘oh! come on, man! start chasing me!!!’ pleading…lol

    well done!…

    i could smell that arousal through the computer monitor…lol

    and just to point out, that was basic textbook texting, with her putting in a LOT more effort/writing than you were doing… with good emotional spikes…

    good luck!

  26. Kind of confused about one of the 4 plates i’m spinning. Been fucking this girl for well over a year now. She goes to Miami a week ago, and this past weekend she facetimed me wanting to catch up. On the call she asks how my saturday night was. Tell her it was fun w/ friends out. She asks me if i got with anyone. I tell her it doesn’t matter, and say no. She says she’s suprised such an attractive guy like myself didn’t get with any girls last night. Then, she then tells me how her night was wild, she and her friends got dinner and this random group of guys near them starting hanging with them, and after the dinner they all went back to the friend she was staying with, her apartment. Then she shows me all these hickeys she had on her neck (looked like she literally got pounded out so hard) and told me she made out with this one guy out of that group and started to tell me he’s a college basketball player and telling me what he was doing tomorrow (idgaf abt this idk why she even said this). I just say “oh you definitely fucked last night (with a little laugh)”. She giggles immediately and laughs, and then asks why would you think that?? I just tell her it looks like the obvious thing. She says “we only made out I swear” , I don’t fuck randoms like that. I was like “thats cool doesn’t matter to me if you did or didn’t (laughing again), have a great weekend, glad you had fun”. She then asks me ” don’t you care when i’m coming back?” I responded with “it doesn’t really matter to me”. Convo over. Later that same night she sends me like 4 snapchat pictures of the beach, and then posts one snapchat story later that night of her with two guys at a restaurant. Look the pussy on this plate is amazing and I want to keep it, but i’m just confused as to how I should be proceeding? I do not want to make some blue pill mistake, because I think in this spot there is some major edge for me if I make the right move. Advice please, cool with criticism.

    1. ./repeat

      @LookForValue

      You’re too nice,
      You don’t have Frame,
      You don’t have enough Game.

      Before you talk to any woman around you, you must have a strong Frame, even if it is your loving Mom. Sex is very businesslike, except for the rules are different. She gets what she deserves. A man with Game in your situation would not even talk to that girl except for some Quickies (Quick-Sex).

      He : (texting) You’re free to come over?

      She: Yes… […Scheduling Time]

      He: It’ll be alright then… […goes offline]

      The more she replies or asks you random things, the weaker your Frame is. If you’re a plain dumb guy, she will politely reject you.

  27. @LookingForValue

    Do us a favour and give us some paragraphs next time some of us are old and need glasses anyway!

    “Kind of confused about one of the 4 plates i’m spinning. Been fucking this girl for well over a year now. She goes to Miami a week ago, and this past weekend she facetimed me wanting to catch up.

    On the call she asks how my saturday night was. “

    She doesn’t want to know this – she wants an excuse to rub hers in your face.

    “Tell her it was fun w/ friends out. She asks me if i got with anyone. I tell her it doesn’t matter, “

    Brilliant so far but should have stopped there and not said the next bit:

    “and say no.”

    “She says she’s suprised such an attractive guy like myself didn’t get with any girls last night. “

    She’s giving you a compliment – beta bait – to see if you lap it up like a hug RW sex starved beta and yiu didnt – well done!

    “Then, she then tells me how her night was wild, she and her friends got dinner and this random group of guys near them starting hanging with them, and after the dinner they all went back to the friend she was staying with, her apartment. Then she shows me all these hickeys she had on her neck (looked like she literally got pounded out so hard) and told me she made out with this one guy out of that group and started to tell me he’s a college basketball player and telling me what he was doing tomorrow (idgaf abt this idk why she even said this).”

    Damn she’s escalating hard trying to get a reaching. You must really be banging her out when she’s with you lol!

    “I just say “oh you definitely fucked last night (with a little laugh)”. “

    Great answer.

    “She giggles immediately and laughs, and then asks why would you think that?? I just tell her it looks like the obvious thing. “

    Good

    “She says “we only made out I swear” , I don’t fuck randoms like that.”

    Coy princess – wow I’m such a good girl, you could put a ring on it..

    “I was like “thats cool doesn’t matter to me if you did or didn’t (laughing again), have a great weekend, glad you had fun”. “

    Good reply. Could have closed it down there with “look I gotta go, I’ve got shit to do” and that would have saved the next bit.

    “She then asks me ” don’t you care when i’m coming back?””

    Shit test again.

    “ I responded with “it doesn’t really matter to me”. Convo over. “

    Good move again.

    “Later that same night she sends me like 4 snapchat pictures of the beach, and then posts one snapchat story later that night of her with two guys at a restaurant. “

    Yeah shit testing again trying to get a jealousy plot line going.

    “Look the pussy on this plate is amazing and I want to keep it, but i’m just confused as to how I should be proceeding? “

    You’re doing well so far, but she’s looking to get you tied down. Her next move is gonna be to dump you. She’ll probably do it right after you’ve banged her into next week.

    She’s gonna say “look I’m not sure this is working so I think we should take a bit of a break” (LSNFTE – long soft next for temporary exclusivity)

    Your correct answer is “hey, you’re a great girl and you deserve to be happy so you gotta do what you gotta do. I’ll always be your friend”

    Then walk away – delete her shit and NEVER contact her again.

    I guarantee she’ll be back. It might be 4 hours, 4 days, or 4 years. But if you’re banging her right then she’ll come back on your terms.

    “I do not want to make some blue pill mistake, because I think in this spot there is some major edge for me if I make the right move. Advice please, cool with criticism.”

    The mistake would be folding and agreeing to her blackmail for exclusivity. You do that and your arse is fried. It’ll all go to shit, including the sex and you turning into her bitch.

    Also watch out for the “whoops pregnancy”..

    Report back!

  28. Ok it’s on for Friday night plus what might be beta bait about her staying over.

    I locked it out – she can get a train still.

    Then she says “mans choice” on the wine so she’s a girl that wants to be dominated. Why else is a 30 y/o after a 47 y/o anyway.

    Final decision is whether I leave the birthday card as shown below from the nurse on display or put it away 😳

    Obviously it’ll spike her.. lol

    https://imgur.com/a/qSKmj2K

  29. @Palma

    Hahaha that was hilarious, had a good laugh today.

    To be honest – the vibe is actually probably wrong now anyway.

    My favorite moment. A great example of flipping this rolodex back on her, sending the signal for her misbehaving, stacking devalidation, being non-reactive and outcome independent – all in a single shot. Count the OMGs… lol… the hamster was fried.

    So now we know she’s not a tranny, whizzing fatty, cripple or Russian hooker (although that’s a funny ploy right there for you to exploit at some point lol). The stroke was probably just some minor thing… or a joke we didn’t get. We’ll see.

    Props for challenging your default algorithms and experimenting with your ego for !SCIENCE! lol

    It was still a situation where she was heading out the the boonies to meet a guy from the internet at his place. Most women wouldn’t do it.

    No? Well… some little (albeit sometimes loud) pussycats enter the strange dragon’s lair because they want to experience the thrill. Behind all this noise, there’s a fantasy to be taken by a powerful man. Who will lead and direct this scene with the action paced to the beat of delayed gratification, slow movements and speech, longer pauses, laser eye contact, electric touch. Who will occupy their space and could dominate them physically any second but won’t give them the final validation – the D – just yet. Make her work for that. Build the tension and fry that hamster again… lol

  30. Just a bit of a note here.

    There’s been a paradigm shift because of da’pocalypse and lockdown.

    I have more dates lined up now via online than I have time to go on.

    This is like when I first got divorced at 44 which was 9 years ago and pre tinder.

    The nurse (who works in accident & emergency and sees people all day) said yesterday that:

    “People are either scared shitless or seriously pissed off, no in between”

    So the shitlib soyboys are scared shitless and so supply of “men” has tanked. Honestly, I’ve got another much younger one offering to come over to my place.

    Though I’d like to think it is, this is not down to improvements in my game alone. It’s a societal shift. Women are desperate for men that aren’t shitting themselves, and it’s a much smaller pool than before, and it skews older.

  31. @IRL

    “Props for challenging your default algorithms and experimenting with your ego for !SCIENCE! lol”

    Well as I’ve said, my gut said there was something wrong.

    Unless you’ve been on an online date and got there and she’s 10 years older and twice the size you won’t get it.

    Remember that chick selection thing you were talking about… well that.

    Her photos are 5 years out of date as is the evidence you found online. So yeah, in the sense she’s not a prostitute, she’s legit.

    But in terms of everything else, who knows. Now if she gets here and she’s the hot slim thing in her pictures then it’s all good.

    But if I pull up to the station and she’s ballooned so the size of a whale and the Japanese are chasing her with a harpoon gun then it’s gonna be a getaway job – all 300 horsepower in use Lol..

    Either way you’ll get documentary evidence bc !SCIENCE!

  32. @Palma
    @IRL

    “Props for challenging your default algorithms and experimenting with your ego for !SCIENCE! lol”

    Well as I’ve said, my gut said there was something wrong.

    Yeah there’s still that and I agree. We know online is full of suboptimal SMV girls.

    What I meant is that the secret to flipping the switch is in trying different things, exposing yourself to opportunities and acting on them to “test the truth of the situation”. So this is an interesting experiment beyond getting a bang. In the process, you’ve come up with and tested a new devalidation stack (the vibe is not there… the vibe is wrong again), put yourself in an untested territory (younger girls straight to your place), can experiment with your routines, had fun doing it, not to mention increased TRM engagement lol. Always a stepping stone towards younger girls, disrobing their mentality and tapping into that “older man – younger gal” dynamic. Long ball is pulling young chicks into your life wherever whenever. A process to be build on compounding of experiences, decisions and actions. The bang is only an add-on.

    But if I pull up to the station and she’s ballooned so the size of a whale and the Japanese are chasing her with a harpoon gun then it’s gonna be a getaway job – all 300 horsepower in use Lol..

    You mean no roast meat and veg? 1h commute for nothing?! lol

    1. A process to be build on compounding of experiences, decisions and actions. The bang is only an add-on.

      So much this… playing The Game.

      You mean no roast meat and veg?

      Wha?! How can you have yer puddin if you don’t eat ya meat!!

      [Maybe that will rouse Blax. Talk about engagement]

  33. AR , we have 10″ fresh powder , my son came over in his rav4 and we went sledding on the skidoos.

    The weather guesser forecast 3 to 6 and got paid good to be wrong. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

  34. Stacking the pipeline with target no.2

    https://imgur.com/a/HVdcDwv

    ^^ @Stuffinbox I used to have a RAV4.. very reliable .. but damn for some reason I didn’t like it. Bc of eu regulations of some type they restricted the back door opening to about 70 degrees so the side opening back door didn’t obscure the tail lights. Only car I’ve ever bought brand new but I just couldn’t get on with it and sold it.

    1. Palma , LMFAO , if your kidneys are like mine they would want a refund. Dis she keep talking to you after that line or quit?

      Yah not a big fan of the rav4 either every one I’ve looked at had a burnt smell to the trans fluid plus no low range and unibody.
      My main point was you could almost make it all the way here in a rav4 so the snow ain’t too bad.

      Bad enough though that Mrs. Box asked me to drive her shopping today so I will go out and view some split tail deer vs the hairy kind.

  35. @Stuffinbox

    Yeah she came back tonight – but I over cooked it and blew her out. She might come back into the ranch in a bit after her inbox gets blown up by needy chumps.

    https://imgur.com/a/pmQBKOX

    I blew it just after “what use are you then?”

    Like @AR said, I’m over revving it.

    But in real life I’d have got away with that. And as I said above, there’s been a real serious change in online lately. It’s really quite bizarre.

    1. Palma , she will likely be back cuz some lumber isn’t run of the mill and we all get tired of digging for the straight ones. Loads of beta chumps.

      Maybe things work better in real life cus of charisma that doesn’t come through online. I hate using emojis but “still what use are you’ should come with a smile. I might have said not even spaghetti ? All you have to do is get the noodles to stick to the wall, is your wall clean? Like a “smile when you call me that!”

      The “what do you do”? is trying to get frame by getting you to qualify, this of course needs to get turned around right away Like “are you looking for work” or “what do you need done? as I know a guy”. Or the chocolate welder , bean farmer.

      Can’t say whats changed online , could be a combo of holidays coming up , lockdown syndrome (both of women and prospective men). Everything looks to be changing fast for an agenda 21 , I read bJ is looking at the freedom pass like a hall pass to show the monitor. Women shoppers here have to deal with toilet paper monitors as it is less expensive to pay a isle guard to set the limit than to have 2 restockers putting things back after a fight with the cashier. These gals are on a scavenger hunt and can never quite seem to fill their list.

      Something weird with these younger women is the are more manly than the same age men and are used to being qualified to ,it could be things are getting tougher where the men don’t have any quals that fit.

  36. @Stuffinbox

    “Palma , she will likely be back cuz some lumber isn’t run of the mill and we all get tired of digging for the straight ones. Loads of beta chumps.”

    There is that, which is what I thought it was, but it’s just occurred to me that I’m listing my height as 6’7”, and it may just be that tall men get a much easier mode than shorter ones online.

    “Maybe things work better in real life cus of charisma that doesn’t come through online. I hate using emojis but “still what use are you’ should come with a smile. I might have said not even spaghetti ? All you have to do is get the noodles to stick to the wall, is your wall clean? Like a “smile when you call me that!” “

    I hate emojis too and have never used them except just recently because I’ve always thought them try hard and beta. And I still think they are, but probably necessary on occasion when you’re texting with OLD to take the sting out of it. There is still this thing where 90% of communication is non verbal. No I’ve moved back somewhere normal it’s been like it always was in that if you just smile at a woman and make eye contact, it sets the entire tone of the interaction.

    I certainly over did it with the negging, and probably blew up her self esteem. This one is 37 and from Latin America and so probably actually a bit more traditional than most of the Brit/American clan.

    “The “what do you do”? is trying to get frame by getting you to qualify, this of course needs to get turned around right away Like “are you looking for work” or “what do you need done? as I know a guy”. Or the chocolate welder , bean farmer.”

    The vast majority of them ask that out of the gate. If you look I didn’t actually answer it. Some get very very pissed off if you don’t answer, or reduce it to absurdity. Like the blonde a few weeks back. She hit me with it after the polite introductions and I from memory I said I was a pornstar, which irritated her on the face of it, then she went in for another go “so seriously what do you do” and I said “it doesn’t matter” or something along those lines. What did stick out was her reply which was a disappointed “ohhhhh, don’t make this difficult”

    So as @Sentient said – these older women really want to connect. And I mean they do, but I hadn’t realised how badly. I’ve experienced it loads of times, but I didn’t see what I was actually experiencing. They’ve all got “time to talk” etc..

    In the past where there’s been some women pushing, if I want to play then I say “I’m a lifeguard in a car wash”. But sometimes I don’t want to play and so I say “it doesn’t matter”. On a few occasions where they’ve pushed back on that saying something like “of course it matters”, or more usually a frustrated “what do you mean it doesn’t matter” and I’m just bored with them I shut it / them down with “because it’s never going to affect you”.

    Then you see the hamster go tick,tick,tick,tick,TOCK!!! As the implications of that land lol..

    “Can’t say whats changed online , could be a combo of holidays coming up , lockdown syndrome (both of women and prospective men). Everything looks to be changing fast for an agenda 21 , I read bJ is looking at the freedom pass like a hall pass to show the monitor. Women shoppers here have to deal with toilet paper monitors as it is less expensive to pay a isle guard to set the limit than to have 2 restockers putting things back after a fight with the cashier. These gals are on a scavenger hunt and can never quite seem to fill their list.”

    I don’t read mainstream media, and I can’t say what BJ is and isn’t going to do. Im fucking pissed off with him and I had hoped that he may have been a leader but I’m coming to the conclusion that he’s just a globalist shit like the rest of them.

    People here are degenerating into two camps, the scared shitless ones, and the fucking pissed off ones with nothing in the middle. The scared shitless ones are primarily the redistributionists that are sucking on some sort of gubbermint tit, happy with any kind of oppression, and movement restrictions/ regulations / tests (DNA harvesting) and the pissed off ones are trying to do a real job and pushing back quite hard. There are also massive demonstrations across Europe that aren’t being reported in the media.

    “Something weird with these younger women is the are more manly than the same age men and are used to being qualified to ,it could be things are getting tougher where the men don’t have any quals that fit.”

    I’ve just moved back out of the people’s republic of ghey to somewhere normal. I had thought it was my imagination. Dating there for a straight older man was hard mode. And I still can’t conclude why. There is something to do with the gender thing. And the thing is, an old fashioned poof is one thing. They’ve been around a long time and you know where you are with one. But this increasingly popular “gender fluidity” where they really don’t know what they are from one day to the next is actually fucking things up for a lot of women that are just desperate for some masculine oak tree type anchorage.

    (You we only got to look at the final line on the last interaction where I asked her whether she wanted red or white wine, she came back “mans choice”. And yeah, @IRL uncovered some stuff about her including movie clips where she’s walking into places doing expose journalism. So she is legit. And she is a hardcore ball buster. But no, she doesn’t want to decide on the wine, and does want a man to take the lead. So we’ll see how that plays out. Which will be interesting..)

    And it’s fucking them up because they’re being told they shouldn’t be craving for that / they don’t need that / they’re just the same blah blah blah….

    Without getting into dicking around with online etc.. I’ve always had women if I’ve wanted one. There have been dry patches, but generally it’s been around. Different in later years because so much more has gone to seed. But down there the place was wall to wall with horrible fat ugly tatted hambeests. You couldn’t get any eye contact or a smile in the street. The whole place smelt of weed, and if you walked into town you’d get hit for drug money by homeless literally 10 times in each direction.

    So yeah, some women will be seeing that and polarising.. my current online profile is much more hardcore than the last one, other younger women in every shot, me larking around etc.. Profile says outright I’m looking for a nymphomaniac.

    I even read that Alyssa Milano is advocating forgiving Trump supporters, reaching out to them etc..

    Of course my money, that’s not what’s going on in her head.

    What is going on is that the hamster is sensing that all the shit liberals are burning the place down and rioting, the same ones are advocating de funding the police (diluting / removing her state protection) so it’s got the feeling the place is getting dangerous.

    And so yeah, she’s fucked off virtually any man that’s capable of protecting her (without being paid / contractually obliged ) and the hamster is thinking it might be a good idea to hedge its bets a bit here and get itself aligned with a few old school men that can handle themselves rather than pussies that rely on state funded “security”

    So, good luck with that. Lol..

  37. Palma

    “I’ve just moved back out of the people’s republic of ghey to somewhere normal.”

    Maybe manageable, I’ve not seen normal in years.

    ” I had thought it was my imagination.”

    I did too till I saw them all parked at the gaslight inn.

    ‘Dating there for a straight older man was hard mode.”

    Never been there but it sounds similar to a gaming town , everything is random and spur of the moment. Situational alpha changes in moments (it can even mean out gheying one another) and people flip at a flash in the pan. It is a constant flakeout till everyone has fucked each other. You would need a bag of dope to get along.

    “And I still can’t conclude why. There is something to do with the gender thing. And the thing is, an old fashioned poof is one thing. They’ve been around a long time and you know where you are with one. But this increasingly popular “gender fluidity” where they really don’t know what they are from one day to the next is actually fucking things up for a lot of women that are just desperate for some masculine oak tree type anchorage.”

    It is true they are desperate yet they are not even aware what is missing. Women/girls have been told for so long they can do it all and Men/boys have had their drive taken down. I talked to a 26yo mom last week,she is up in arms how to motivate her husband to get off the couch and quit playing games. He works 3- 6s and she works 4-10s the baby is taking the frame as she is their equal an fn mess. I told her to send him back to his dad, seems he has daddy issues. Watching Rollos masculinity vid from last week, one definition of masculinity is producing more than we consume and these new world men take the bait as it lets them off the hook for burden of performance. Meenwhile back at the ranch her hindbrain is trying to figure out whats missing while her front lobes are trying to control a man to be a man and that is counter productive to test and motivation so no matter how big he is they are basically both fucked.

    I am going over for coffee today , the wife wont go as she can’t compete. These women actually brag to each other of how much they have gotten from betta chumps without ever putting out anything back. It is a crown jewel to have used the most men or gotten the most free shit from them. Probably in prospective male company they dis their past dates as cant get it up.

    I may be a whorehouse raised little fucker, but a little wiser now and it all rolls off like water of a duck. Being actually skilled and tooled up as I am there is a constant calibration going on to secure my compliance but it ain’t happening.

    1. Palma , good move she is BPD or worse and an obvious nutter.

      I could see trying to get rid of her

      ” I am leaving now.”

      ” Okay , I’ll walk you to the door”

      “Are you kicking me out?”

      On the YT film There is a link to FTL films, basically that film was a screen test also on the FB page there is another photo of her that makes her look like a psycho. So good onya.

    2. IDK Palma

      She seems like a hot lay. Sure she’s a bit cray cray but that’s part for the course.

      I’d let this weekend go, then hit her up like nothing ever happened. She will go nuclear with the shit testing. You just hold your ground, even tempered, and keep repeating time and place until she caves. I bet she will.

      And THAT is what they are looking for. A firm hand, some guy who simply WILL NOT bend to their manipulation.

      And when she bends, it will be all the way. The nurse times 5…

      !Science! Demands it. You might learn a thing or two as well.

      Wednesday

      You: what’s up flakey McFlakester?

      Her : Wrrrrrroaaaarrrrr!!!!!

      You: Easy Tiger. Come over Friday at 7.

      Her : SCREEEEEEEEEE!!!!

      YOU: yeah Friday at 7.

      And wear something sexy…

      Etc.

      1. Man this stuff is getting really hard to find.

        Mystery overcoming a sparky bitch

        https://gotpickup.com/mystery-uses-a-routine-stack-and-deals-with-shit-tests/

        The key is the timing of when he says “hey, do you want to get real here” words to that effect. That is the key, when to shift and pull the rug out from under her and call out her BS. He does it in a nice way even.

        The goal of all this is making them want you. YOU can then choose not to, but that is after they show you they do. Those steps are progress.

      2. Dunno..

        Genuinely bored with it to be honest… plus gut / @Stuffinbox was right – she is crazy and whatever happened to “never stick your dick in crazy”?

        Plus I’m not gonna enjoy the sex – bc.. crazy.. I’d have to wear a condom and I never do bc I hate them.. plus all the way through I’m gonna be thinking “am I gonna be able to get this nutter out of my place”

        I mean she is genuinely nuts. Way beyond normal. She’s contradicting herself line by line. She’ll just cry rape and then it’s a shit show. And look at the audit trail of texts.

        It might surprise you that I say this but I’m not actually enjoying this interaction with her. My local Italian is open again next week and I’d rather walk in there on my own for a bite to eat, chat to the boys and see what other women are lurking that I might actually enjoy interacting with.

        Happy thanksgiving by the way!

    1. ” . . . under UK law police are not allowed to enter homes without a warrant unless they suspect there is a gathering at which a person infected with COVID is spreading the virus.”

      Well there’s a loophole I could drive a SWAT team through.

      1. @KFG

        They can’t get into your house within a warrant.

        They’ll try to manipulate but if you just say “ok, but I don’t consent” and you don’t get shitty, they’ll back off. They can’t come in and that’s that. And it’s all on video.

        Especially where I live. They don’t dare. You could be anyone, or know anyone.

        But Elvis impersonators? Well, that’s just Karma.. lol.

  38. Minor update:

    N=4 is back in Europe (we kept in touch over the distance) and she really wanted to come over for New Year, so she will stay at my place for one week 😀

    The new girl I kissed but didn’t bang (in the previous FR, she was “TC”) was almost coming over to my city to stay at my place for the weekend but she got cold feet due to COVID restrictions. I think she might come over mid-December, otherwise I’ll see her close to Christmas at my parents’ city.

    I could pass through N=2 when I go to my parents’ city, not sure there will be an opening.

    I’m not actively trying to get N=5 again. We only banged twice back before the first lockdown and since that she came over twice to my house. The first of those after 1st lockdown visits, I eventually went in for the kiss and she moved away, the next time she came and cooked for me and I didn’t even try to kiss. She is going away for Christmas and I think I should meet up with her once before and give her another chance, it would be good practice either way.

    Meanwhile, N=3 is going along mostly smoothly and the sex is even better since I came back from my recent trip abroad.
    There was recently another situation with Mr. T that got to me though. I’m actually leaning towards them never having fucked, and if they did doesn’t change things that much as I probably never will know, but some of her actions annoy me regardless. I mentioned it to Palma and he suggested I post it for analysis.

    The context is what matters here (to me at least) so I have to get into some detail. A month ago for Halloween I set her up for some cosplay (me also dressing up). So I told her (with two weeks advance) to get some specific color of clothes and to put on specific make-up, which included red lipstick. She doesn’t wear much make-up and as it turns out she was out of red lipstick, so I tell her to buy some. Then we talked about it again one week before Halloween and I tell her basically I’m taking care of the rest, the clothes and make-up are her responsibility. On the day – she didn’t get the red lipstick and used a similar color instead. It was annoying and disappointing but not a big deal.

    Fast forward to end of November, on a day that I know she is close to ovulation and also going to meet up with Mr. T on the afternoon, and before lunch time she sends me a picture of a red lipstick on her lap (I also noticed she is wearing some of her sexiest trousers) that she just bought. I also note she didn’t send a picture of her face with the lipstick on, but I know she tried it on (I asked about the texture), and it is pretty certain she was wearing it when she met up with Mr. T.

    I’d like to know what you think of this.

    [spoiler title=”Click here for my opinion, if the spoiler tags work”]From my point of view and knowing her a bit, although I don’t think it was done with conscious, malicious intent, it was quite shitty – either very inconsiderate or even disrespectful.
    Maybe I should have ignored it, but for disclosure here I basically told her right away when she sent the picture “you got it several weeks late”. Later when I met her in person on the next day (after banging her) I told her I was annoyed about the red lipstick. I’m not sure if she realizes consciously that part of that is not just the thing with Halloween but also the context of Mr. T.[/spoiler]

    1. Medium is the message right?

      The time to make an issue, i.e. enforce a boundary was on Halloween.

      “Uou look great. Except for the lipstick. Where is the red, this won’t do.”

      On Mr T. – she has it for him. That’s what this whole hypergamy thing is about.

      1. @Sentient
        So – I don’t get that. When it is true, that that she never banged Mr. T – why would she even care about him so much to get the lipstick for him? Or is it just another shit test, where she wants to make IAS jealous? Thus, she would not care about Mr.T but instead about provoking a reaction from IAS, wouldn’t she?

        Anyway, pretty interesting to hear. You guys seem to be know each other pretty well.

    2. @Sentient and Palma (and everyone):

      Of full disclosure it is then.

      Indeed, the day after N=3 bought the lipstick (and before I told her the red lipstick thing annoyed me – she was surprised), I made her cum with very little “sexual” stimulation.
      I told her I wanted a massage on my legs. She massaged me, then I got her to blow me a little bit, then I put some music, lay in bed, she came to kiss me, I grabbed her throat with the right hand, cupped her cheek with the left hand, and kissed her intensely until her cheeks were really red, I paused with the kisses, told her “Cum now”, kissed her again and she came (incidentally with her female flatmate next door, which sometimes makes it harder for her to cum). Then I fucked her, gave her at least one more orgasm, about to cum I pull out and go in her mouth and she swallowed all of it.

      I glossed over that in the post but when I wrote “the sex is even better since I came back from my recent trip abroad.”…
      I told her not to touch herself for the duration of my stay abroad, and I still teased her in writing, and I noticed I made her orgasm (without her touching herself) just from her reading explicit text where I made liberal use of the stuff we had done on previous sex sessions, sprinkled with some dick picks; and another time on video call (this time I’m sure she didn’t touch herself because I was watching).
      The objective is fucking her mind… And with that in mind I figured I can do that even easier if I’m in the same room and when I returned I made her cum in all possible ways (I like to experiment, you know, for Science)…
      From more difficult to easier, without involving her pussy:
      Just by talking with her until she is ready then telling her to cum;
      Just by kissing her, stopping, telling her to cum and resuming;
      Just by having her blowing me, start fucking her head harder, and telling her to cum;
      Just by sucking her tits, biting the nipples, stopping, telling her to cum and resuming.
      All of this was new to her.

  39. @Sentient / NoNameNumber1

    I’ve written a long reply to this but got ambitious with new formatting and lost the lot. I’ll rewrite tonight, In the meantime I don’t think she had the red lipstick for MrT. It was to shit test @IAS

    Good luck with getting a woman to wear something specific by asking her directly. I don’t think you should ever do that. Apart from anything else it implies you’re needy / you care, and my first instinct on this is that it gives her hand. Why would you give a fuck. If you don’t like the way a woman presents herself, then sack her off and get a woman that presents herself the way you do like.

    If I were to make this statement would you consider it AF, or BB:

    “I made her come today with my hand on her throat just by kissing her – without even touching her tits”

    So let me know on that.. and where do you think she would have you on the AF/BB if you could do that^^ to her. Would she be banging anyone else?

    @IAS is banging her so hard that he’s AF but there are inconsistencies in his AF frame that the Hamster is picking up on like his obv. insecurity ref Mr.T, so that weak spot is being pinged, and this red lipstick thing is the start of the guard dog spin up. It needs to be dealt with like all fitness (shit) tests.

    Ignore
    Misdirect
    Reduce to absurdity / Agree and amplify

    If he wanted her to wear red lipstick, the way to do it is flirt with the young barmaid that is wearing red lipstick it in front of her.. then say “damn that waitress looks hot in that red lipstick, if I were 10 years younger”

    @NoName We’ve been hanging out in here for years now so we sort of know each other.. sort of.. but stick around. Most can’t stand the heat of the RP truth and crash and burn out of the place.

    1. “I don’t think she had the red lipstick for MrT. It was to shit test @IAS”

      Ah my bruhs. Hypergamy is win win. It’s a twofer. Both are the correct answer.

      Shit test (further btw) IAS and maximize attractiveness for Mr T.

      She wins…

        1. Palma

          I got the news. Here is the issue. Alpha not 100% correlated with great sex. It’s close but not even.

          Take away – you can get her to cum on command, but you can’t get her to put on the lipstick you like, she is not a submissive.

          But she is enjoying the sexy games. Of which SHE is a willing participant. Kind of analogous to topping from the bottom.

          Weren’t you saying uptrend women these days acting more like guys used to?

          The best sex she ever had can be with an alpha. It could also have been with a beta.

          Alpha /= great sex, chad memes notwithstanding

          But another way the sex is great because of alpha, not because of great sex.

          1. I don’t think it’s alpha to “make” or get her to do anything.

            Or to “get her to wear the lipstick you like”

            You should’t even have to do that. She should just be doing it, she should be seeking out what he wants. So ok I’ll have to think about your sex comments but if he’s doing her that well, then she should be just doing everything he wants. And grateful for it.

            My mindset was her hamster had spotted the weakness and was pinging for it.

            If he just DGAF and totally owned her / tied her to the bed etc..

            Then she’d come to heel fast enough, and that would be the end of the games.

            I remember getting hung up on a guy in Anastasia past when I was taking TRP and it was similar, wrote a whole chapter on it but it was nada – I should have jus5 kept banging her.

            Right here I think it’s a feedback loop. But I’m might only be looking at it from one perspective.

  40. Funny little interlude

    Getting some food to go for the fam. Stop into a bar to wait. 50s guy and woman one stool over. She’s closer to me. Women gives me a look. I order. Chat up the staff, all guys but I know them and they are coming over to say hey. Its not crowded just 6pm.

    Anyhow it’s clear they are on a date or more likely an outing. She’s got a killer bod. 5’4″ is, 110. Really nice pert rack. hmm. Average, not old looking at all. So I’m like hmmm.

    She giving some sideways glances so I engage her. She asks about my beer. Then she says I see uour married where is uiur wife? Dingding strong off the bat… turn up the laser and tell her I do what I want. This hits. We chat thanksgiving a bit. She had it with her 25 yo son. Her guy had it with his three kids… typical sad divorce holiday stuff. She made steak she says so I make fun of that.

    Now her guy is pretty typical guy. Google middle aged guy. He’s probably 5’8 and 220. Kind of beefy but a good 25lb gut. Basic sportball type of guy I bet, with a decent tool collection. Uou know that guy. Pleasant enough. Engage him a smidge.

    I tell her more about the place she is in, they have a cool patio and they should check it out some time. She tells me she is in a small city about 45 minutes away. I finish my beer and say I need to split. Settle up with the bar guys.

    I tell come check out the patio. She tells her guy watch my beer he’s going to show me the patio. The guy is like “you’re going with him?” She says you can come and he says he has to watch her beer and has the wtf is going on here face. She says she’ll be right back.

    So we walk outside and I move over to the side and say see look how cool it is. There are maybe a dozen people outside. She’s like yeah yeah this is cool. Now we are shoulder to shoulder lookimg around and our hands are together so I take her hand and we keep chatting. Then she is leaning her shoulder into me. So I slip my arm around her waist and feel her side. I whisper in her ear “you’re a hot little number aren’t you” she’s giggling says OMG you are so crazy,, and turns to face me. She says so remind me of your name again and puts her hand out.

    I say I didn’t say it. Take her hand. Hold it laser. She says tell me if I’m up here again and see you what will I call you. Other hand on my chest for emphasis. i just say Sentient and she tells me hers. Then we drop hands and she’s a bit flustered and says she should get back inside.

    I have my phone in my hand and was thinking about getting her number. I open my arms a little and say come here. She squeals and says again uoure so crazy and heads back in. I follow her a minute later. Go say hey to the guy fist bump him. Take care man. Then turn to her and laser. Give her a nod. See ya.

    One beer, 20 minutes. Thought after shut i should have gotten her number.

  41. @IAS @Sentient
    Shit test (further btw) IAS and maximize attractiveness for Mr T.

    ^^^^^This. Win win. Could even use the same material to beta bait any number of orbiters in social circle/on social media… lol…

    No big deal @IAS. It’s just her throwing it out there to see what happens… oblivious or not as to why. Not that you’re in a committed relationship or anything. Comes with the FB territory.

    Women are great ultra-sensitive feedback machines and will probe any curious spots in your frame or vibe. Use this to your advantage to improve your sticking points.

    @Palma
    So ok I’ll have to think about your sex comments but if he’s doing her that well, then she should be just doing everything he wants. And grateful for it.

    There’s no IF…THEN causation between good sex and submission. Are girls alpha widows/submissive to their dildos?

    @Sentient
    I tell come check out the patio.

    Charmer… lol

    @Palma
    I’m bored with her now

    What should we do with you, what should we do…

  42. @Palma

    “But how do I leverage that to get my son back?”

    First, what HABD said:

    “i’ve had several buddies that have gone through the same situs… most of them end up with a good relationship with their kids… it seems to work out that the more the man reacts (confirming mom’s opinion) the less good the relationship ends up being… but mostly they ended up on good terms with their kids… in other words, making some mistakes isn’t fatal to ending up with a great relationship…

    however, one did not… he reacted to everything mom did ‘tit for tat’… ended up that the kids never wanted to have anything to do with him… even after they realized mom was a b*tch…lol…”

    I’ve read your book and your stories here in field reports, my memory is shit but I’ve got the picture that she seems like some shade of cluster B. So I’m looking at the issue from that viewpoint below, based on personal experience that I’ve (unfortunately) had of cluster B women on my path from blue to red pill.

    My writing style is sometimes rambling and repetitive and if it feels like I’m stating the obvious at times bear with me.

    Cluster B’s don’t see shades of gray, there’s just black and white, and you’re black. To her you’re evil. Solipsism is on overdrive for cluster B’s and it’s lizard brain stuff and she cannot have empathy, so the only viewpoint she understands is her own. Cluster B’s cannot look at themselves in a doubting light because that would implode them. The way they feel about themselves that ultimately they’re pure, coming from a place of love. All the bad stuff they do in their eyes is just justified reaction, not what they truly are. So being pure good, you in turn must be pure bad, evil man. Emotionally she felt she had the losing hand in your divorce, because she’s still drawn to you as a man the same way she used to be and she can’t shake that. And she hates you for that. And because she’s cluster B, she can’t help but to live and breathe her viewpoint, so that’s what she’s passing on to your son as well.

    She is abusing your sons affection for her mother in the process, although unwittingly. Holding him hostage in a battle against you. As a cluster B her biggest, deepest fear is abandonment. In her eyes you are evil because she loved you but you kicked her down and abandoned her. And she want’s to protect your son from evil. Because to let him be with you without control could mean that he would like you and “become like you” and that would mean that he too would abandon her. Depends on her level of cluster B how subtle or overt her “bad man” story arc is. And because she is cluster B, the image about you being evil that she has and presents is “flawless” in a sense that she could probably pass a polygraph test with it. And because it’s like that there are zero cracks in that shell, no inconsistencies in the story which could raise question marks against it. As as the story is coming from her beloved mom he cannot but be affected, and the image is left hanging at the back of his mind. A shadow of doubt on whether you truly are a good guy (personal experience) or whether you really are ultimately bad as mom so unflinchingly seems to perceive and paint you. And she has the frame and so focus is on you. Like HADB brought up, if you’d go fighting against her, your “bad” acts would confirm that indeed you were the bad man she has portrayed you to be. If that goes too far then the emnotional experiences could lock the sotry in place even after mom turned out to be a bitch like HABD brought up. So she’s kinda like holding him in iron grip and if you’d try to pry she’d grasp harder and when he would start to get crushed he’d yell “DAD, stop, you’re crushing me!”.

    As HABD said and as I’ve personally witnessed, what seems to work in these kind of cases is not fighting (not confirming her story) and time. When kids grow up at some point they’ll start to see their parents flaws and understand that their word is not absolute truth, and if at that point you haven’t effectively confirmed her story, the kids will be curious to find out what the reality actually is, whether dad really was good and not like mom made him look.

    But is there any way to escape that cage of “bad man” by action? I’d say it’s impossible to win crazy in a fight (there’ll always be more cray from where it comes from), but I had this thought:

    The image and story that your ex is projecting about you is that you’re evil, you’ve done something unquestionably bad and aren’t taking responsibility (apologizing and submitting to her good, pure love). So to her the way she feels about you is unquestionably right. Your son picks this up, “mom is angry at dad because dad wasn’t good to her”. You’re always working against this story, and deeper down he has cognitive dissonance about this because it’s his personal good experience of you vs mom’s evil image. This is how she has him in control. To be in touch with you will bring more uncomfortable cognitive dissonance, so the way to avoid it is to avoid you because her side he can do nothing with.

    But so, I think maybe her whole story could be flipped over. Simply by passing to your son the info that your ex doesnt’t actually hate you, but deeper down still loves you.

    In that light things would look different. She is angry at you because she can’t escape her feelings for you, you’ve alpha widowed her. Otherwise she would be indifferent. Your son is old enough to have experience of your mom being wrong, times when he knows he’s been right but she’s pushed on and he’s submitted to her for the sake of peace. Which he let’s pass because “really deep down mom nothing but purely loves me, she’s just being emotional on the surface”. But in your case it seems that he hasn’t made that connection yet, he doesn’t seem to be defying his mom at all. Her story is there at the back of his mind. But if the focus was flipped and he’d look at her critically instead of you and see cracks, in that case I see it could flip for good. “She’s said all this about dad but what of that is true and what is her being upset.”

    With the “she still loves me” claim she’d be at the point to prove that it’s not true. And she couldn’t prove it false because it isnt. I think your son could intuitively understand it. Just don’t make the mistake of explaining it if your son asks you to elaborate when you mention it. “Can’t explain it, I just know her.”

    If that flip happens, he will start to question his mom’s story and come to you to get more experience to find out what the truth really is, as he already has a lot of the good experience about you. You’d have the benefit when he’d see that you’ve been treated unfairly. And with her shadow of doubt and the pain of cognitive dissonance gone he could really appreciate your time together, out of her frame, and when you’d spend time and have fun together then he’d quickly see what good he’s been missing and want more of that.

    Kinda like in the movie Inception where that thought was planted in that dudes head and it fundamentally changed his decision. She has planted her shadow in his head and it cannot be fought, but if you flip it it’ll turn working against her and in your favor.

    1. Silent Bob

      “But so, I think maybe her whole story could be flipped over. Simply by passing to your son the info that your ex doesnt’t actually hate you, but deeper down still loves you.”

      Having been in the sons position while I was growing up , this^ is already the narrative.

      The truth is it takes two to tango and she checked out first.

      She claims that he checked out and she still loves him even though his character is defective..

      The way to counter the narrative is tell the truth ” I still love your mom, things got rough and she went crazy.. I couldn’t afford to get her the help she needed……”

      I wouldn’t advise this^..Never mention the mother.

      The thing to do is show and tell the son his father loves him , keep the door open , provide discipline and freedom so there is always space to run free around dad.

  43. The thing to do is show and tell the son his father loves him , keep the door open , provide discipline and freedom so there is always space to run free around dad.

    Never mention the mother and don’t blame the son.

  44. @IRL / Sentient / StuffinBox / All

    “What should we do with you, what should we do…”

    So Fridays non date has hit me up today to tell me what I shit i am. First two pages carried on from my last post and the last one is today

    https://imgur.com/a/nJlDe4c

    I know you boys think I should have spun it, instead of sitting on my own Friday night (which I actually really enjoyed) but the world is divided into 2 types of men. Those that have got ensnared with a BPD woman and those that haven’t.

    Hands up who has 🙋🏼

    Honestly you just don’t want to go there, and she ^^ has got this written all over her:

    https://outofthefog.website/personality-disorders-1/2015/12/6/borderline-personality-disorder-bpd

    1. IDK Palma. Looks like you played her like a ukulele and she’s purring like a kitten now. 😸 🐱 😽 😿 😸

      ^ 5 phases 😆

  45. Sentient

    “Never mention the mother and don’t blame the son.”

    +1

    Take it a step further. It is a good bet he is catching plenty of blame where he is. because a stepdad can’t love a stepson as a father can , the boy will always be caught in the middle of an( imagined by the stepdad) oedipus complex. Factor that in with another mans offspring getting his resources and try as he may to overcome these instincts they are there below the surface.

    He (the son ) is being molded and shaped into some thing unnatural and the only counter measure that works is to accept him for who he is and set an example of what he could become. He can learn self discipline by example from the father.

    The biggest injustice is by ( mom and stepdad) using his blood father as a bad example , when the lad eventually tells them to fuck off and steps out on his own he will emulate those negative qualities. This can only be beaten by spending time with the father to observe him setting good examples. Accept him the way he is and let him grow out of it naturally.

    It is sure that I am projecting some of my own experience into this yet most situs follow a common path.

  46. @SilentBob / Stuffinbox / Sentient

    Thanks very much for taking the time on this. You must have read the book sometime age because I de listed it when things improved temporarily with him.

    Actually I never had my ex wife down as a cluster B. However although I do say it myself I think she’s my Alpha Widow. You’ve only gotta see the new guy. When I left after the dust settled she said to me “I know you’re not going to but you can come back”. Then we got on quite well and I got access which was good until I was obliged to move away 3 years ago and she went absolutely bananas about the prospect of him making his own way to see me at the weekends.

    He was easily old enough to do this.

    She never facilitated my access anyway, I had to do all the running which was ok if impractical. Until that point she could never have made the idea that I was at all bad stick with him. We got on far too well.

    Unf. I made the fatal mistake of going to court over access requesting that she should get the train with him one way to see me and I should take him the other. Because she’d “disabled him” by not allowing him to travel on his own he’d become literally petrified of taking the train to see me.

    Anyway. She went bananas over the court case. We had no lawyers. When we turned up I was in my own and she was there with 6 family members. She was absolutely in pieces.

    The male court user asked me if I’d had sight of my sons letter to the court as I should have been provided with it. I hadn’t. It was 3 pages. Basically, dads a bastard, and I don’t want to see him. He’d put more work into that (if he’d actually written it) than any of is homework in the last 3 years.

    It was two female judges, and I wasn’t allowed to speak in court. At all. They started reading the riot act so I started to pack up my papers. One of the judges shouted “are you listening Mr. PalmaSailor?” and I said “No.” and walked out before security actually woke up and realised what I’d done.

    So it did get better from there. We were chatting until I moved back to their doorstep, and I was going to see him. This was obv. Rejected because of da’pocalypse. I said “don’t be ridiculous it’s overblown, I’m coming to get you and we’ll get coffee at some point next week”

    Then I got an epic email from him about how he felt, including him being disgusted at me because of my “arrogance and stupidity, that I won’t listen to the experts who know more than me” and saying he doesn’t want to see me again because it causes him “anxiety”

    I ignored it and still send him texts telling him I love him, I never mention his mother, and I pay him a bit of pocket money to his bank every week by standing order.

    The above court case coincided with her getting the reality of actually moving in with her new bloke.

    When she said she was going to move in with him I asked if she loved him. She said “he’s got a job a house, and a pension”

    I said yeah, but I asked if you love him?

    She said “it’s what I want”

  47. @Senteint

    “One beer, 20 minutes. Thought after shut i should have gotten her number.”

    Sometimes you just don’t think to close it and after you think “shit that was just on a plate – what is wrong with me”

    Was on a train a few years ago and there was a hot single mother with her daughter (about 3). And I mean this woman was banging. Early 30’s skin tight clothes.. everything.

    So the train carriage was full and she had far too much luggage – suitcase, buggy, child, etc.etc..

    So she’s struggling to get it all together and I say “hey shall I get some of that” and she looks at me, eye contact, hair flick, smile, and it’s all go..

    She sort of stumbles and says “oh, err yes please”

    So In front of a full carriage I say, “well it’s up to you, I can either steal your daughter and sell her body parts for medical experiments or grab your case and have a good root through your knickers, which do you want?”

    Now the hair is flicking and she’s looking down and she mumbles that there isn’t much of interest in her case and with that I just grab a few bags and carry them off the carriage. We’re laughing joking and chatting walking along the platform to the exit.

    And it was there. She’d have given me her number in an instant. But did I fucking ask.. no. And I still regret it.

  48. @StuffInBox

    “He (the son ) is being molded and shaped into some thing unnatural and the only counter measure that works is to accept him for who he is and set an example of what he could become. He can learn self discipline by example from the father.”

    Ok set an example of what he could become

    So.. yes.. the message has been given to my son (by his stepfather – his mother doesn’t think like this) that “All he needs to do is get by”

    Ie he doesn’t have to really go for it – all he has to do is cover his bills, don’t worry about ambition, just get a shit job (which is what the stepdad has got) and he’ll get by.

    I have never thought that way. In the past I’ve said that this is ridiculous anyway you look it at. If you have to go to work anyway what’s the point in just getting by, you should go for it.

    Now on the outside, they’re living in an expensive house, and if you read my book you’ll realise I did the blue pill thing – and I paid for the bulk of that fucking house my son is in now. But my son is associating that ^^ lifestyle with the stepdad whilst I was reduced to going to live in one building site after another for a 3 year period to recover.

    But my son has said “well what do you know it didn’t get you very far – you’re living in shitty little flats as a builder while mum and stepdad are in a 7 figure pad with all the bits.. “

    And I bit my tongue.

    So I have now recovered, on just about all fronts.

    And now, old friend and I are going for it and it’s big. We’re both in our areas of expertise and we’re both gonna do very very well out of it.

    So I’ve always fancied one of these, and for some reason I even want it in green:

    https://imgur.com/a/fdZjbdB

    Now it’s gonna stick out like a dogs dick, and his mother is gonna go absolutely bananas if she sees me in it so I’ve been giving it second thoughts.. of course there will be all the shaming and mid life crisis comments but IDGAF..

    But as an example of what he could become / what he could achieve?

    It’s definitely in the right direction.

    Whadya think..?

    1. Palma

      “But as an example of what he could become / what he could achieve?”

      The sky is the limit.

      Divorce is a bitch , my dad didn’t take to it well. he went off the deep end for a short time and had some trouble keeping up with the judges orders, she landed him in jail and then figured out he cant pay while locked up either.

      These judgements pushed him into self employment where he could make more with more effort, an american freedom. Soon enough he owned a large business with 5 men duplicating his effort full time, bought the commercial property he had built up his enterprize on and a few more houses and vacant lots to boot. When I went to work for him at 17 I was the gopher (go for this go for that) and learned business from the bottom up. I used to pay attention to telephone and sale convos and learned the etiquette. Some of the men he hired were also divorced and there was much support for each other, I became what was called a mans man. Like you i believe we do the best we can with what we have to work with and keep on accumulating more as time goes. I can’t sit by when there are things to do and if there aren’t I will automatically invent some constructive project.

      Now on a side note I did get a phone number from a woman that has been trying to isolate me for some time. She placed an order and told me no rush (I think she is menstrual at this time) , i am going to wait about two weeks then call and set up a delivery to her apt.

  49. @Stuffinbox

    I’d wait a week, and then phone to arrange delivery for the following week perhaps..

    We had a discussion about the state of men, and I have to say it’s a very clear line. I recruited 2 last week for not quite construction, but nevertheless manual building type work. And I had a brilliant time. Recruited 2x 25 year olds on the spot. And put a 3rd one on hold til January.

    I was blown away with the quality of what walked in for that type of work as opposed to what I have been used to recruiting for.

    Anything in construction seems to be a totally different type of man.

    Perhaps there’s still hope.

  50. Palma , the porsche looks sweet and a fun spin, doesn’t fit my style and wouldn’t last on these roads.
    My son likes this truck.

    Yep there is still hope all the feminazi bs aside when reality hits a lad construction is a viable option. There are no sensitivity training classes involved. The breaking involves moving as much material as is inhumanly possible.LOL. And beer thirty comes around every day.

  51. That’s a great truck but the fuel bill on that here would be more than the payments on the Porsche and it’s fuel put together ! Lol

    But your son needs it – definitely, and if that’s what he wants I hope he has some targets he can hit, things he can achieve to get that truck. Bc that’s what it’s all about.

    To get the engine thing in perspective we’ve just bought a van bigger that that truck with what we call a tail lift and it’s got a 2.1litre Diesel engine..

    And you got a 5.7 petrol 😂😂😂😂

  52. @Palma

    Ok, my shitty memory and jumping into conclusions and deep into thoughts after a puff of old MJ haha

    @Stuffinbox

    Hmm, yeah, that makes sense. I guess that’s the way it works in normal, sane cases and the demonizing just happens with extreme cluster B.

    Maybe I should introduce myself now that this is already a second time that I’m chiming in on a conversation here. 43, no kids. Stumbled upon llimitable men, Girls *Chase and then eventually TRM in 2015 after I went googling “how to xxx (can’t remember what it was exactly) on Tinder” after a bad start there. TRM connected the dots that I had perceived over the years, right in from of my eyes, totally blew my mind. I knew off the bat that it would be a long process to change, I was thinking maybe 5 years. Today it’s been a little over 5 years. A huge amount of things have changed, but there’s still a lot of work to do. Started a business this summer to employ myself as a freelancer, that’s what’s up next. Now life is starting to truly feel like worth living.

  53. Silent Bob

    “Hmm, yeah, that makes sense. I guess that’s the way it works in normal, sane cases and the demonizing just happens with extreme cluster B.”

    There are no sane – normal cases. The demonizing goes on in all cases , but she (still loves him inspite of how evil he is ) is more of a saintly woman. This is even worse as it compounds the demonic view of the ex husband. How could he treat a saint this way? LOL

  54. @Stuffinbox

    Beer thirty? What’s that? You get a beer everyday after work?

    Lots of builders do that here too. We call that Beer O’Clock.

    @Silentbob

    It probably took me 5 years to even start to swallow TRP. I’m probably 8 years in now and it’s taken that long to fully understand what’s happening.

    “Started a business this summer to employ myself as a freelancer, that’s what’s up next. Now life is starting to truly feel like worth living.”

    Well it’s a good start, and well done, but you haven’t stated a business unless the thing happens without you / despite you / while you’re on the beech. Then you have a business. Until then you’re self employed, which by the way is very close to unemployed.

    But you’ve made a start which is good. When you’ve got 10 people in an office doing what you do and someone else managing that while you’re scratching your balls then you’ve got a business.

    ** MJ generally fucks performance. You won’t make it unless you lay off it.

  55. Palma, beer 30 is 30min past beer o clock. That means real thirsty. and yes on residential jobs the boss is buying a round on commercial jobs its tough luck and the workers buy each other a round.

    There is really no comparison between a classic 4wheeler and a porsche . at 6k for the truck used vs 125k used for the porsche and 9mpg vs 20mpg, never mind taxes and tags the truck holds value and the porsche loses it. at 10k mi. per year the porsche loses 15k in value while at 20mpg it gains back 1.2k in fuel savings. It is more of a class issue than a cost issue.

  56. It’s not class, I’m working class, as are all my friends here. Regardless of wealth. It’s about whether you made it yourself or not.

    And I was a bit tongue in cheek.

    But £5.40 per gallon (which is what $7) over here and compare that with over there and drop the price of the Porsche to under £100k and increase its MPG to about 28.

    Leave a residual on it (which it would have) and it’s not as bad as it looks.

    More importantly, has your son got a plan to get his truck?

    That’s the important bit.

  57. Palma , I know it’s late there and I’ve got work tomorrow .

    “More importantly, has your son got a plan to get his truck?”

    Hell thats my toy, he just likes to borrow it. These kids today may be even more impressed if you bought an electric car or put a hydrogen booster on something. Just saying

    There.is the hitch , he has a truck and an suv a dirt bike and his own home. None of it is a porsche or cowboy cadillac.
    Everything he has is utility , he is still working on his college at 38yo and his plans have changed with the covid and doesn’t really have one besides get a job that jives with his school load and maybe mortgage his home which I think sucks but it’s his life. Since I turned him on to TRP he has coincidentally gotten a divorce (kicked that bitch to the curb and gave her a truck) then moved another in with him (better looking lower N#).He’s his own man and made it himself.

    I’m still working out a new plan for 21, may go renewables or builds with materials available on lot. Not locking in till after election but things will change regardless.

    Yep , things are different here with lots of wide open spaces and uphills , it’s a 50 mile run to the boomtown with a 2k ft elevation change. Most people drive power cars at speeds up to 80mph bumper to bumper. Fuel is only 2$ gal and a 2.1 diesel isn’t going to cut it without the flashers on. My diesel trucks are 7.3 and 6.0 turbos and a 7.5 gasser.

    Good advice on the phone number woman , wait one week then lock for the next week delivery , building anticipation the whole time.

  58. @Stuffinbox

    Actually it’s early!

    You just want to line her up when she’s ovulating really.

    None of it is a porsche or cowboy cadillac.

    Well he A) doesn’t want one, B) he can’t work out the plan to get to one, C) doesn’t believe he can do it or D) he doesn’t want to put the work in.

    Most men deep down it’s somewhere between C & D, and B as a result of those first 2.

    There was a poaster here that I met in real life who had a good self employment. I looked at it, and it only needed two or three changes and it would have span off incredible money. It would have been tough going for a couple of years but it would have stood a Porsche at a very minimum within three months of getting it together. I put in quite a lot of work and I forget the dates but for arguments Sake on the Friday the plan was set for release on the Monday, and it would have been go, and then he would have been up against it to get work covered. The day before it was gonna hot he pulled the rug.

    He looked through the door at he riches (and work) beyond and he bottled it and he didn’t take the first step. He’s disappeared off the face of the earth. I still wish he’d gone for it and if he’s reading he’s welcome to.

    Men do do it. @IAS has. He stepped over the fear. Now granted he analysed the fuck out of it, but made the first step, and he’s probably about 1/3 the way to fuck you income (at the level he wants to live) – but it could go harder than that. He has the basics, it’ll be down to him now how far he takes it.

    He’s got a couple of chess moves to navigate. But in the early stages I used to get what’s appd half the day on the next step before he did it, now I’m getting texts telling me he’s done it. And I’m proud of him.

    Everything he has is utility , he is still working on his college at 38yo and his plans have changed with the covid and doesn’t really have one besides get a job that jives with his school load and maybe mortgage his home which I think sucks but it’s his life.

    I can’t really comment without more information. My latest plan turned to a pile of shit, and old friends business which had taken him a decade to get to a massive turnover turned to dust overnight in March. And hasn’t / won’t come back. So I can’t comment on how this has affected your son and what he’s doing.

    So we’ve decided to attach ourselves to government projects where they have targets to hit. And for that, despite the fact I could do the work, we couldn’t get paid. Because for a one hour job, there was between 50-100 pages of compliance and you needed QUALIFICATIONS ! So you could SIGN OFF and get paid. So I had to go back to skool.

    I need one more technical qualification, and you guessed it, I don’t have the qualifications to get on the course for the qualification. So I kicked off about this and they admitted that they needed to change things bc loads of guys like me were coming forward that could do it but couldn’t get on the course. So they decided to do an entrance exam. You gotta write an essay – For a technical course. So I’m thinking meh.. essay for a technical course? Ok.. then I receive it, and there’s not a technical question on it.

    It’s basically – am I politically aligned with this objective. So of course I am and I’ve submitted it, and so far it’s crickets.

    Even all that doesn’t get you into Porsche territory. It’s almost at an OCD level. You have to calculate costs of travel and mileage time between jobs, you have to be better than everyone else and work harder than anyone else. Yesterday I calculated the power useage of the rechargeable hand tools over a day, and the 12 volt system on the van couldn’t hack recharging all that. So I installed another 12v system that could hack it, and I’ve had to buy special kit (RV power management) to manage that. We have to do more jobs than our competitors and workflows need to be obsessive.

    Since I turned him on to TRP he has coincidentally gotten a divorce (kicked that bitch to the curb and gave her a truck) then moved another in with him (better looking lower N#).He’s his own man and made it himself.

    Home improvements LOL!

    I’m still working out a new plan for 21, may go renewables or builds with materials available on lot. Not locking in till after election but things will change regardless.

    You dunno how it’s gonna play. Gotta follow where the money / confidence to spend it / or compelling event is gonna be, and who knows where that is right now.

  59. Good stuff @Palma.

    You reminded me of Duncan Bannatyne:

    BTW his second wife is 30 years his junior (he’s 70 or so, married her only a few years ago):
    https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article13947547.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/3_PAY-MAIN-Duncan-Bannatyne.jpg

    One thing you don’t mention – but do – is casually engaging in multiple little things around you. You increase your chances of success by not only developing new skills but also creating (and training your eye to spot) windows of opportunities. All while going about your day, ignoring dead ends/failures and going all in if you see any signs of market IOIs.

    Similar to a natural working a room. Applying the Short Set Method, talking to everyone, giving props to guys, chatting up fatties, negging/teasing hotties. Body rocking, stepping in and out, accidental kino etc. Spotting the IOIs and going bat to the fence.

    Compounding the wealth of experience and connections.

    Re the crazy Irish redhead. Too funny. Clearly, she’s not used to not having things her way, wants attention and a man to set boundaries. I know it’s not what you’re looking for, so all good, you do you. Just hypothetically then. My follow up would be to flip the script (it’s her behavior that’s ridiculous) in a Command Presence way and then dose my texting depending on her behavior. Disappearing is more powerful than running A&A or self-amusement which is still offering her the gift of your presence. The signal you want to send: no barking in my presence. See the dog whisperer.

  60. Palma , a load to unpack here^

    Yep , ovulation was my goal post initially and was pressing it to tight into the HOT zone + giving her too much time to fill her bill.

    self employment isn’t for every man , he has to be driven to the point of marriage to the business and willing to do what it takes to compete.

    I started my first big one at 21 , Pops told me I had a lot of balls going into that field , I took it as a compliment. The competition was fierce and powerful with some shady characters at the top. It took me 4 years to get it where I could leave for a couple weeks without losing anything.

    I’ve done some gov. contract work in the past with similar experience on all points. The compliance hoops for insurance , employee pay scale and quals took some doing. had the same experience for 1 qual where to pass the entrance exam meant taking 3 more courses , I told them I want the cert not a degree and they let me in. After a semester I earned the cert and an honorary degree at top of class. LOL
    The pay was 90 days wait from billing but good money , almost double what I was making. So there have been some new policy changes and there will be loads of new tasks up for bid that I am tooled for. Not wanting too put the eggs in 1 basket.

    “We have to do more jobs than our competitors and workflows need to be obsessive.”

    Welcome to beer:30. LOL

  61. @Sentient

    Never mention the mother and don’t blame the son.

    10 years of RP post-divorce wisdom distilled into one sentence… outstanding!…lol

    good luck!

  62. I am new to Rollo’s work . I would henceforth question the author Mr. Rollo and the commentariat on their opinions about the r/exredpill subreddit and especially this thread about the fallacies in the Red Pill “Praxeology”
    https://www.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/ho4cvx/red_pill_detox_first_aid_kit_start_here/
    Notice that the author has included scientific articles possibly debunking the human alpha male , work done by Dr. Nerdlove , Mark Manson’s criticisms of the alpha male and more.
    I also would like to know the view of the commentariat on criticisms of the red pill for establishing monolithical and quite rigid stereotypes about men and women, and on the biological determinism fallacy in the red pill. English is not my first language , hence apologies in advance.
    Hoping for a rational viewpoint rather than an emotional one. Thanks.

    1. What is your goal, Hopeless Incel? Would you rather endlessly debate ever smaller details of someone else’s debate, or would you rather improve your life?

      1. come on guys atleast answer mark manson’s criticisms of the alpha male, ffs.
        Well for me, I have some serious physical and hormonal abnormalities(having low T, manboobs, low self esteem, afflicted with cystic acne all over my face and upper body, have a very small erect penis; might be a micropenis diagnosis, my Mom wears the pants in the relationship; fucked me up psychologically, etc)
        So I am in my mid-teens right now and still live in my parents’ home , yeah I am lost in my journey through life.
        Advice required, thanks.
        PSA: This is not a troll post; ok.

        1. Manson sets up a straw man of TRP and alpha male so that he can knock it over and claim victory.

          TRP is simply reality. You can’t debunk it, only correct and refine your perception of it, much as Einstein expanded Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation. He didn’t overthrow it. He simply revealed it as a limited case.

          What Manson essentially does is construct a parody of Newton’s Law, points to a popular press misconception of Einstein’s Law and declares gravity bunk.

    2. @Some hopeless incel

      Mark has a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of alpha and beta within the context of intersexual dynamics. He blends several concepts and contexts in his blue pill infused analysis…

      @AR is correct… IF you want to better your life, read this site… start up top with the best of series

      https://therationalmale.com/the-best-of-rational-male-year-one/

      just take it on faith that it’s all true… bc it is…lol… stop back in with specific questions after you are done with the first year series…

      ps. change your name to something else… if you are here, you are not hopeless…

      good luck!

  63. Lay report 25 y/o Russian doctor

    Well.. I’m now officially ruined..

    So I met this girl chatting on a lockdown sceptics blog. It had a dating section for sceptics ago I went for it and she replied.

    Chatting for about a month or so as couldn’t catch up for one reason or another.

    Last night agreed to meet at our local green space with beer and wine. She arrived at the right time, she doesn’t live far. Small talk but it’s cold and wet so I suggest walking back to mine and I’ll cook / we’ll get movie.

    We walk back and in my kitchen she’s very very nervous but I cook and we eat. Drink a bit of wine. Bit of chat, she hasn’t told her friends she’s meeting some guy bc they would have told her she’s mad and don’t go. She’s here and feels totally safe. Then I go to the toilet and think I’ll hit for the make out on the way back so as I come back I say thank you for coming and go for the kiss, get a cheek kiss and I go for the lips and she says “no I don’t want to” so I don’t push it.

    We finish eating and I’m loading the dishwasher and ask her what she’s watching- something on Netflix. I say ok, and we go to the other room to watch that.

    I sit at the other end of the sofa laid out and she’s sitting at her end. Both drinking a bit of wine, I totally pull back and don’t try anything at all and we discuss the movie for about an hour.

    At some point I sit up, gently get hold of her and pull her down to lie next to me and she does and she curls in like a kitten. And the make out begins.

    So the make out gets hot and staff starts to come off, and I pick her up and carry her to the bedroom.

    Aaaaamd now I’m ruined …. lol….

    1. So I met this girl chatting on a lockdown sceptics blog. It had a dating section for sceptics

      Prefiltering at the very least, with possible preselection on the side.
      Perfect.

  64. @Not-hopelessIncel
    See, I’m 19 years old. While I was about 13 to 15 I was the lowest one in the class’ hierarchy – to cite J. Peterson here: “It’s no good place to be”. Thought about half a year about killing myself, but am thankfull I never did.

    I still have Acne, somehow pretty bad. Thought nothing might help it, until I went to a doctor and got “Inderm” (some antibiotics, really helped). I also thought nothing can help me, penis too small, belly too fat, you name it, probably pretty similar to your position.

    In the end I changed: I lost a lot of weight, read all the best-of series. And changed the people in whose hierarchy I was at the bottom. With new friends and new self-esteem everything started to get better. I also can only recommend Jordan Peterson to you as a young teen, as it really shows insights and things to talk about.

    I also thought back then – as you do now – my dick was too small and I do not have enough T.
    Guess what? I reduced fapping to once or twice a week (which helped) and as I grew older both things grew.

    So, you are in a position many guys find themselves in when growing up – it’s normal. And – it’s not forever.

    Buut: It is not abnormal or bad, if the parents own the relationship. Hell, mine still do now. But: who cares? Meet up with friends and slowly build your own social life, you have time, but stay confident.

    And if you have problems with your mon, why not talk to your dad?
    This forum is anonymous and most guys here live at least 1000km away from me and you, so why bother what weaknesses they know?

    Take care
    NNN1

  65. @IRL
    Well, seems like Ihave to thank the community as well.

    Yes, I did horseback riding for the last eight years. Did some running as well (for an annual youth “marathon” over a few kilometers), where the last years I did pretty well. It was like a competition of schools, where every school wanted to show up with as many runners as possible and also land the wins in each age group. DHVd a lot. Now, as life changed, I have not started horseback riding yet again. I cycle enough to stay in fitness training and do some small workouts at home.

    Maybe it helps Hopeless Incel: I never did well at school sports like ball games (volleyball, Basketball, football) as my eyes have a rare but strong defect (in the genes, which also makes my skin cheese-white).
    So, what to do if you are heavily handicapped in one aspect? You look for other ones, instead of throwing in the towel!

  66. Palma , nice going on the wine doctor. Do you think you can keep some on tap for later with some more DHV/ IOD?

    Hopeless Incel , you def need to change your handle don’t make me do it for you lol. Who is Mark Manson? Seriously! ,

  67. First of all thanks for the replies. It is heartwarming for me to know that there are members close to my age(17) in the community .
    Secondly thanks for the book recommendations . I will check them out immediately.
    It does not help me additionally that I’m socially retarded and barely know how to maintain conversations at all (being a Mama’s boy has its own disadvantages)
    BTW, as for Peterson, do I simply read and take notes from his books, watch his video lectures, or do a mix of both? Which book of his to start with ?
    Suggestions welcome.
    Lastly what do you all think of the book No More Mr.Nice Guy by Dr. Glover? I hear this book recited a lot in the Manosphere.
    Thanks from a cautiously pessimistic incel .

    1. @ SHIncel
      Just read 12 Rules for life.
      Then you’ll understand a lot of what is going on around you.
      Starting conversations is pure practice. Maybe start talking more with adults, this often seemed easier for me.

      Lastly, change your name – At least cut out the “hopeless”

      1. Thanks man. Good luck
        I’ll come back here after a week for the updates.
        Hopeless–> Pessimistic Incel

  68. See, thats a little, but a good first step.
    So what do you plan to do?

    Also: Do you only live with your Mom or both parents?

  69. @Some Pessimistic Incel

    Ok well that’s progress on the handle but you could do better than that. So having watched sons of anarchy I’m gonna name you @TheProspect and that’s how I’m gonna reply to you from now on.

    So you’re a 17 year old man, and that was a long time ago for me but there are things to consider about life that apply at all ages.

    There are things in life you have control over like man boobs, because you can lose weight, work out and build muscle. Others will put me right but I think lifting will also boost your T levels, and at 17, you’re not fully grown so everything is probably gonna get bigger.. Where’s @Blax when you need him lol… c’mon Blax poke your nose out just a leeeeeetle bit ..lol

    Then there are other things you can’t control.

    Control and make the best of what you can control. Be aware of but don’t obsess over what you can’t control.

    On top of that there are things that are simply irrelevant to anything:

    come on guys atleast answer mark manson’s criticisms of the alpha male, ffs

    Who cares what some dickhead thinks about anything? It’s beyond irrelevant to anything in your life, or my life, or anyone poasting her, or Rollo himself what Mark Manson thinks about anything.

    If you’re living at home and your mother is feeding you the wrong food and so you’re putting on weight it’s difficult to control that, but is it the food? Or is it something else like you’re drinking 2 litres of cola a day – which is something you could control.

    Think about the above and come up with a positive plan.

    Let us know what that plan is.

  70. Sorry for the late reply,
    @NNN1, live with both parents right now, have a plan to escape from home by May 2022, when I will be all set for my undergraduate studies.
    @All others, I am a self-described covert narcissist, and another crazy thing about my parents is that my Mom acts much like the Red Pilled man Rollo describes in his blog, handling all the decisions in the house but yet teases and criticizes Pops regularly; this dynamic has made me and my father both terribly dependent on Mom. Even to the point where my Father has to take advice regarding his own family members; my Grandpa, Grandma and others; from my mom before any communication. She has helped me a lot with my studies so far, yet she insults me for not being self-dependent and self-reliant. As a result I at present am very much of an emotional guy, unable to take criticism positively.
    Thanks to Rollo and other writers in the Manosphere, I diagnosed these abnormalities successfully.
    Advice hence forth required, thanks for communicating.

    1. @TheProspect

      “Advice hence forth required”

      What you have described may have been the exception , it is now not so uncommon. Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger.

      Do your calisthenics religeously , and push your fears daily.

  71. @Some Pessimistic Incel

    How do you know you have low T, have you done a blood test or are you just guessing? Do a proper blood test first.

    In terms of food, try low carb diet, high protein, high (healthy) fat. Start taking creatine and try to eat good amount of protein at least 2g of protein per kg of lean body mass or even full bodyweight (depending how fat you are, 300 lbs guy doesn’t need 300g of protein).

    For weights, don’t do BB splits, you are not a bodybuilder with 5-8 years of lifting experience, doing curls won’t help as much as doing the big compound lifts for all major muscle groups.

    Start with a beginner program like Starting Strength or StrongLifts (check their website for full info, has a free app to log your workouts). After 6ish months the beginner program won’t work much and will have to move to an intermediate one like Madcow, Texas Method, etc. The intermediate program will take you 1-2 years, maybe more, after that you will be strong enough for a BB program or an advanced powerlifting program or even hybrid BB/powerlifting program (like 5/3/1, juggernaut method, etc, etc). But you should have done your research by then to know enough what program to do and when.

    Generally, beginner program is defined by increasing the working weight for every workout so if you squat 3x per week you increase the lift by 2.5kg each time for example. Intermediate is defined by increasing the weight weekly even if you have done the same exercise more than once in a week. And advanced is based on cycles and other stuff which you’ll probably research when you get close to it.

    After a couple of years do a blood test again and compare. You also have to consider peak T-levels for men happen around mid to late 20s , so just by lifting and growing older it should increase. If even after a few years its still low you might have to look into TRT. A friend of mine did everything right, food, lifting but still had naturally low T in the low 200s range so he started doing TRT in his late 20s and is in the 1200 range now, feeling much better, doesn’t have any downside as long as you don’t abuse it and keep it in a healthy range. But don’t consider TRT until you’ve done the above and are at least in your early to mid 20s.

  72. Thanks @Stefan
    BTW: I sometimes feel like I do better, when I eat more meat and less carb (like noodles etc) – what do you think about that?

    @The Prospect
    To be honest, it would help dramatically and improve the relevance of the advice we can give you, when you put out more serious (!) information about how you are in shape.

    What do you wear, what kind of school do you attend, also how high are you (roundabout) and how much do you weight.
    To break the ice here: I’m 178cm (5ft 10), with about 70 kg (154 lbs). I better worked out more, but for the moment it works. Important: Be carefull what you wear based on your body type, I do not recommend a tanktop for my physique, but a long black coat gets the looks. (For the last years I used to carry a golden pocket watch). See Mystery’s peacocking for that.

  73. Okay so here is the thing.
    Height: 170cm, Weight: 74 kg, BMI:-25.6 (Slightly overweight)
    Currently on a high-carb, low protein diet and Mom is in control over it, so can’t change things here (Moderate fruit intake on a daiiy basis however).
    Would like advice on workouts (exercise) from home as nearest gym about 5 km from home(City outskirts).
    BTW I’m South Asian for further clarity.

    1. @The Prospect

      “Currently on a high-carb, low protein diet and Mom is in control over it, so can’t change things here”

      Your mom is doing the best she can with what she has to work with. You could always ask nicely. It might work.

      “Thanks to Rollo and other writers in the Manosphere, I diagnosed these abnormalities successfully.”

      Come on dude! I’ve never seen a psycho self analysis guide on this sight or any other. How do you know your diagnosis is successfull? Was it confirmed by a professional, or does it just feel hypocondriacly correct to you?

      Now that you know what to change you need to take full responsibility for your own future, no blaming or self pity allowed.

      You can make your own money, people are always looking for a young man to help move things . check out gigs on craigslist or just get out and network a little.

      It used to be mandatory PE (physical education) in public schools with calisthenics every day. Some of these may be tough to begin with, if you have to start doing pushups fro the knees then work your way up to the toes. The main thing is use your muscles or lose them.

  74. @stuffinbox @TheProspect

    great video workouts!…

    NO money or equipment needed = no excuses!…

    i reviewed those three workouts and they are solid beginner/intermediate routines… the pushing/pulling are balanced, with lower body/legs and core/abs… and with three routines, there is enough variety…

    just gotta put in the effort now!… and follow the complete routines… even if some exercises are more difficult… THAT just means you need work in those areas…

    @The Prospect

    “Currently on a high-carb, low protein diet and Mom is in control over it, so can’t change things here”

    Your mom is doing the best she can with what she has to work with. You could always ask nicely. It might work.

    +1… also, if meat isn’t in the budget, ask if she (or you for that matter) can start adding beans/legumes to some meals… that will give you a complete protein when combined with grain carbs…

    eating healthy doesn’t have to be expensive… and learning how to eat properly now, will benefit you the rest of your life…

    “Thanks to Rollo and other writers in the Manosphere, I diagnosed these abnormalities successfully.”

    Come on dude! I’ve never seen a psycho self analysis guide on this sight or any other. How do you know your diagnosis is successfull? Was it confirmed by a professional, or does it just feel hypocondriacly correct to you?

    +1… you don’t know, what you don’t know…

    AND putting a label on yourself is NOT in your best interests…

    be honest with yourself… isn’t this just another way to try to justify your current situ… to save your ego from harsh reality?…

    the benefit of trying (which you are doing by posting here) is that you actually want to better your life… now it’s just a matter of putting in the work…

    Now that you know what to change you need to take full responsibility for your own future, no blaming or self pity allowed.

    +1… even if you, for some reason, ARE actually whatever label you are trying to use as an excuse, what are you going to do about it? (to quote SJF…lol)…

    putting in the work = results…

    easy, peasy…lol… but not kidding… the main thing that is nice about weight training/exercise is that you need absolutely NO natural athletic ability to be successful… you literally JUST have to put in the effort… AND if you do that consistently, you literally can NOT fail…lol… but not kidding…

    more (consistent) effort = more positive results…

    You can make your own money, people are always looking for a young man to help move things . check out gigs on craigslist or just get out and network a little.

    It used to be mandatory PE (physical education) in public schools with calisthenics every day. Some of these may be tough to begin with, if you have to start doing pushups fro the knees then work your way up to the toes. The main thing is use your muscles or lose them.

    +1… and see above… NO natural athletic ability needed…

    and if you really can’t even do one complete rep, do one negative rep… then the next workout, do two… etc…

    for example, if you are doing pushups, and can’t push yourself back up even one time (even by having your knees on the floor), start at the top and lower yourself as slowly as you can… til you hit the floor… that’s one negative rep… the next workout, try for two of those… then three… etc… keep adding reps… then try to push back up… if you stick with it, at some point, you WILL be able to push yourself back up… then just keep progressing…

    you literally can NOT be too weak to get started… OR to make progress… just gotta put in the work…

    good luck!

    1. ” . . . start adding beans/legumes to some meals…”

      Lentils. The king of legumes. Highest in protein, lowest in toxins. Not exactly a stranger to south Asia. Don’t spare the ghee.

  75. @TheProspect

    Height: 170cm, Weight: 74 kg, BMI:-25.6 (Slightly overweight)

    Well.. you’re taller than me. I don’t know how much by because IDGAF enough to measure myself. Since I was at school I thought I was 5’8” and I only realised I was shorter than that because a plate I’ve got is that tall and she’s taller than me so she called it out. And I shrugged.

  76. Well put Archie:

    The “textbook” pickups are actually rare, because girls are chaos agents, and look forward to making you trip up. It’s fun for them. They might not want to see you fail, but they just enjoy making a mess of everything. It’s a feature not a bug.

    There’s the rub though. In trying to slow a guy down, they get caught up in that behavioral loop. Just them trying to stop a guy, is a guy hijacking their world. The guy knows it’s coming and he has something to draw the group deeper into the web. Her trying to one-up you, means you’re in her head.

    (…)

    But a lot of my game, and I’d say a lot of the game for other guys, is done in the “middle spaces”.

    Opener
    middle space
    Transition
    middle space
    Lock In (Shout out to Glow)
    middle space
    Attraction Material
    middle space
    Logistics
    middle space
    More Attraction material
    middle space
    Qualification
    middle space
    She Buys In
    middle space
    He gives 90% Approval then 10% Withdrawal
    middle space
    Phase shift

    I think the gurus call it “vibing”, but it’s having a chat with a girl that’s flowing, but not going anywhere logically, just emotionally.
    And in that “space”, it’s the pauses, the purposeful making of eye contact, the purposeful emotional reaction, the touches, the “looks”, the lean backs…

    Those things really do enhance the words, and tend to say more about who you are, or at least round out the picture. But my style is about hitting all of these verbal and nonverbal angles at the same time. Keeping her guessing and off balance, not sure what’s gonna happen next is basically being a good social media feed. The emotional spikes should be strong, but intermittent, but also she should have some type of input. There’s probably a good bit about dolphin training…

    Good thread:
    https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/day-game-women-in-groups.23717/

    1. That is a good thread. Funny seeing it over and over, guys coming back to old skool Mystery…

      Also having routines and material already prepared in my head I find does really make it easier to concentrate on the other stuff which plays a far more important role like eye-contact, facial expressions, body language and delivery (tonality) etc. At least in my limited experience that is what I am noticing. When I was being natural, most of my energy was caught up in coming up with things to say that I just did not have enough mental energy left to concentrate on these a lot. I just read this from YaReally’s archive:

      “Here’s what a Field Report from mid-2005 looked like:

      “So I opened the girl with Who Lies More, then she mentions it’s her birthday so I go into Birthday Sex and transition to my stack: Badass Kid, Jealous GF, Best Friends Test and now the sister is laughing her ass off with here so I do Powerpuff Girls and transition to The Cube on the birthday girl–”

      Here’s what a Field Report from 2016 looks like:

      “So I went up and was like “hey what’s up”, and then it was awkward for a minute, I asked how their night’s going and they said it was their birthday…and then I was like that’s cool so how’s the food here, and then they weren’t really super receptive so I cheersed them and walked away to write this Field Report.”

      lol I’m not picking on you specifically, this is most guys who don’t sit down and plan out and practice/rehearse routines (until they get good enough at improv (from going out a ton and being forced to improvise and create common personalized responses to various common situations so they don’t have to think about it consciously)).”

      Unfortunately I discovered Game in 2016 so I have only been doing what he describes Game has devolved to in 2016 and now looking to add the early stuff which seems like gold to me now.

  77. Field report from this week:
    As everything is in lockdown, the most social happening at university is some microscopy exercise.
    The subject I study is scientific and demands a lot of work, yet there still are more women than men.

    For the exercises I sit next to a girl, ‘G’, italian heritage, smaller than me, but quite fit.
    She wanted to study sport science at first and looks accordingly.

    On Monday and Tuesday I already texted her a bit, some blabla with too much comfort without a load of attraction (I appreciate advice on textgame : )).

    So it’s Wednesday. I’m late, as the class started earlier than expected. Together with another guy I walk in this room full of people behind microscopes while some (female) research assistant talks.
    I sit down next to G, light glance in her eyes – I say nothing.

    About thirty minutes later – everyone is quiet – I start talking with her about if her cells under the micorscope also have that red blurs, technical bla bla. Guys sitting in front of us capture the conversation (remember, besides us, the room full of people is completly silent). I follow my first lection: befriend obstacles, talk to them. I concentrate more on her, blabla, we continue to work.

    Afterwards, we’re outside the building, I talk to a friend waiting for his class to start. After a few minutes I tell him I’m gona join the group of girls (around G of course), he does not want to join us – his decision …

    So as I approach the girls – I donot remember exactly – there’s again this not well-hidden glance in her eyes.
    We talk a bit, the other girls leave, we get a coffee in the cafeteria and go for a walk in the park. It’s cold, it’s snowed yesterday and the university has the most beautiful campus in Germany.
    We walk around, pass the line of large, 200 year old Gymnosperms next to the yellow chateau on the hill. We walk down the old parkway, nobody around us, and talk some blabla. It’s half past ten and I don’t know how to sexualise just a nuance. She claims to not know the park yet, we talk about sports and her trip in an old VW Bulli (T2) to Italy and Greece. Someone here has said: Girls like to talk, you just have to let them.
    She missed her train already for me, the coffee and the walk – yet there is no infinite time, even though I behave as we have.
    We walk up a steep hill, with a kind of concrete stonehenge on top. While we walk, she accepts incidental kino pretty well.
    G: “It’s cold”
    NNN1: “Right, you don’t even wear a cap” [while ruffling through her hair]
    She takes it pretty easy, maybe also a slight glance in her eyes, tries to lay her hair back in place, but stops it.
    We walk back on campus, talk on. She asks: “Where do you have to go?” as she seems to want to get her train.

    I reply I’m gonna leave over there (pointing the next crossing). I felt like she wanted to leave, looking back, she might have hoped for me to take her home, to help her brake out of the endless loop of videos, exercises and zoom meetings. You need to get that small opportunities, for her it may feel like a shout to take her.

    We walk to the next crossing, stop and – as always – I don’t hug her. I don’t know – need to fix that.

    Gonna ping her again today, chat a bit and get logistics. It was the last exercise on campus for this semester, so I need to actively start something with her. Should have gone for the next step – taking her to my place and bouncing around.

    She changed her WhatsApp profile picture the same day, probably wanted to look better. My generation is pretty conscious about such nuances as it seems. So good: chances on that.

    1. Should have gone for the next step – taking her to my place and bouncing around.

      Need to backward plan the logistics from the sex location, then uou can lead her through them.

      Also when uou are walking around and around and around, take her hand. It’s an easy way to escalate the kino. Do the hands test, if she isn’t gripping back drop her hand but keep on talking etc. A little IOD.

      If you had held her hand a while hugging her at the hard break would be smooth and natural.

      At some point BOTH of your bodies are going to want to touch each other. 😉 that’s what all this is about after all.

    2. NNN1
      DECEMBER 4, 2020 AT 3:14 AM
      “”Field report from this week:
      As everything is in lockdown, the most social happening at university is some microscopy exercise.
      The subject I study is scientific and demands a lot of work, yet there still are more women than men.”

      Trendy

      “For the exercises I sit next to a girl, ‘G’, italian heritage, smaller than me, but quite fit.
      She wanted to study sport science at first and looks accordingly.

      On Monday and Tuesday I already texted her a bit, some blabla with too much comfort without a load of attraction (I appreciate advice on textgame : )).”

      You already have her number = she is interested. Eggs fall and get penetrated by sperms.

      ‘I sit down next to G, light glance in her eyes – I say nothing.”

      You could have winked>

      “About thirty minutes later – everyone is quiet – I start talking with her about if her cells under the micorscope also have that red blurs, technical bla bla. Guys sitting in front of us capture the conversation (remember, besides us, the room full of people is completly silent). I follow my first lection: befriend obstacles, talk to them. I concentrate more on her, blabla, we continue to work.”

      You could have placed something funny on the plate and asked her to take a look.

      “So as I approach the girls – I donot remember exactly – there’s again this not well-hidden glance in her eyes.”

      She is receptive , see eggs fall and sperm penetrate.

      “We talk a bit, the other girls leave,”

      The other girls picked up on a cue and left her alone with bigfoot. LOL. Now they will want to know what happened.

      “G: “It’s cold”

      Now is the time for a hug.

      ” She asks: “Where do you have to go?” as she seems to want to get her train.”

      You don’t have to go anywhere and neither does she.

      ” I felt like she wanted to leave, looking back, she might have hoped for me to take her home, to help her brake out of the endless loop of videos, exercises and zoom meetings. You need to get that small opportunities, for her it may feel like a shout to take her.”

      This^^^ Quit thinking what you feel she wants , eggs fall sperms penetrate them.

      “We walk to the next crossing, stop and – as always – I don’t hug her. I don’t know – need to fix that.”

      Yep you need to fix that. You were all the way there to the playing field and never pitched the ball. Just go in for the makeout and if the sparks fly and things get hot good , if they don’t then put her on the train and move on nto the next egg.

      “Gonna ping her again today, chat a bit and get logistics. It was the last exercise on campus for this semester, so I need to actively start something with her. Should have gone for the next step – taking her to my place and bouncing around.”

      She changed her WhatsApp profile picture the same day, probably wanted to look better. My generation is pretty conscious about such nuances as it seems. So good: chances on that.”

      My guess is she changed her profile to find the next bigfoot and she is going to tell her friends you are another prude boy.
      Maybe you can turn it around I doubt it.

  78. Hello Mister Tomassi,

    I apologize in advance for my English

    I’ve came across your masterpiece “Rational Male” volume one after reading “No more Mr Nice Guy” from Robert A. Glover, your two other volumes are on my wishlist

    Seeking for self improvement and a kind of “how to….seduce the chicks to get laid” I’m 29 years of age and have no experience at all at picking girls up and the major thing that I lack is “what to talk about” I’m a complete newbie, which doesn’t mean I never met girls in my life nor that I’m a virgin

    Your first book has been already a huge eye opener for me but I’m still confused about the notion of “Game” and the next step to apply, should I then keep reading time 2 and 3 to have a better idea about what game is or do I have to consult the PUA’s forum and get used to the preliminary skills to pick up girls, I still don’t get it, am I too dumb ??

    An answer would be highly appreciated

    Greetings from Europe

    1. @NNN1

      Back in mid november I hit the big 60, I’ve been running and gunning for that long and my feet are tired so I’ll take a minute to rest and write.

      You are a Kool Cabasca mainly cuz you are helping the Prospect.

      Now about this contact shyness , lets get some things straight.

      Say girls develop a couple years younger than boys so girls are interested in kissing while boys are playing games and riding wheelies. The girls want attention and are trying to figure out how to get kissed. They don’t initiate this as that is not natural and besides they handle rejection badly.
      There are some exceptions like older women and cougars that will initiate but for the most part it is up to the man to push it forward. The take away is that at 19 she has been trying to be attractive enough to get penetrated for the better part of 8years while you have been wondering how to approach for maybe 5 years. Sort of a cruel joke. LOL

      Women run in packs like the group of girls you approached , had you not been welcomed by one of them they would have shut you out. As you were more than welcome they left you two alone because that is what Italy wanted. This communication happened at a subliminal level. This means the comfort was already built in , she is comfortable being alone with you. This means it is time to escalate further or go into the friend zone. She is not looking for a friend, she was standing with a bunch of them and they left.

      Lets take the worst case scenario of going for it and compare it to the best.

      You go in for the hug and kiss , forget to swallow first and open your mouth to far and she thinks you are trying to swallow her face while you slober all over her so she pulls back and you let her go. She tells her friends your a nice guy but an awkward and sloppy kisser . at least one of her friends will try to isolate with you because you tried. Worst case.

      You read her cues , pull her hands inside your coat to keep them warm behind your back while doing the same with yours for a coat locked hug,the best kind on a cold day. She can feel you pressing against her and looks you in the eye with askance. You swallow and go for the kiss she is receptive and you slip her the tongue. Now you younguns are sucking face and looking for a place to escalate. This is where @ Sentients logistic advice comes into play but I’ll tell you now it really doesn’t matter she will do it anywhere, trust me. The next day her friends can see she was ravished, and they all want some. Your choice . Best case.

      Now go take a cold shower. LOL.

  79. @StuffInBox – but really directed at @NNN1

    This is where @ Sentients logistic advice comes into play but I’ll tell you now it really doesn’t matter she will do it anywhere, trust me.

    Back in the day my N number 4-5 was at a house party out somewhere next to a field. I was probably 18-19.

    So I got hold of this girl, and she was the sister of a guy that was having the party and he was protective and so she couldn’t make out / get with anyone because brother would lose his shit and this pissed her off.

    It was a nice night so we exited the party and went for a walk in the field.

    And that was it, make out in the dark, escalated all the way in the middle of the field, and dropped my pale gray suit trousers and after banging her and pulling my trousers back up there were circular dirt marks half way between my knee and waist..

    She lost her knickers which were red and my mate insisted we go recover them the following day..

    My dad collected us from the party , looked at the dirt stains on my trousers that could only have occurred if I’d been kneeling in dirt with my trousers down and said with a smirk “huh, so she was wearing blusher on her arse then”.

    She wasn’t the first woman, and won’t be the last that was banged in a field an hour after meeting some guy at a party.

    1. Lol. Golf courses were regular, beaches, parking lots of course etc.

      it really doesn’t matter she will do it anywhere, trust me.

      She will for sure. The issue is he wont…

      So backward plan NnN and then lead the interaction accordingly, moving towards the sex location.

  80. Palma , LOL , pale gray trowsers look honest till they don’t.

    Sentient @ NNN1 , No disrespect , if you are uncomfortable you should really have a logistics plan.

  81. Field Report

    So the nurse came up Wednesday afternoon and stayed over until Thursday night which meant I had to blow out the 25 y/o Russian Doctor who wanted to come over Thursday. Instead I put her back to tonight.

    So the nurse has started to buy shit for my place and I’ve told her not to – I don’t want anything in my place, and I’m gonna throw out anything she buys. She’s giving out literally pornstar sex and She thinks I’m joking about throwing out the shit she’s leaving here but it’s gone already in the rubbish.

    So it is a smart place but all I have is a sofa, a tv, a kitchen table and two chairs and a mattress on the floor (I can’t afford the bed I really want). Kitchen is stocked etc.. and obv. Cold beer and clothes / shoes but that’s it. And it’s all very smart stuff but there is literally nothing else in my place.

    So the RD took her time confirming she was coming over leaving it to the last minute but I just shrugged that off really and didn’t get bothered about it. Plan b would have been the Italian at the end of the road on my own.

    https://imgur.com/a/vgntY3X

  82. @StuffInBox
    I see, thanks for your answer. It hit me quite hard 😉 but that’s what truth always does.
    I am working more on a logistics plan, paired with a better escalation plan. When reflecting a bit, I realised how it basically always was the problem in my actions. Could speculate about negative experiences in my youth, but that would not change a thing.

    So I need to push it harder.

    Backwards envisioned, should it be like:
    1. Aim: sex, both branching each other in bed, my room, the dormitory.

    Now, how did we get there?

    We kissed each other, at my place or somewhere else.

    How did we get there?

    I huged her.

    Next iteration:

    Laser eye contact.

    Now, does that make sense? It would bring the following ladder:

    Step: Laser eye contact

    Next: 2.: Hugging, but not too long.

    Followed by 3. Kissing

    And ultimately sex!

    Have I left out some major obstacle?

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