Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

15,464 comments on “Field Reports

  1. @Sentient / HABD
    .
    So .. secret society game..
    .
    In theory they share their fuckbois right? So the question is how to leverage that..
    .
    So today I got the text and she came over.
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    https://imgur.com/a/fMCH5R2
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    Straight to the bedroom, no conversation.
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    Afterwards I fancied the strawberries I had in the fridge but she wasn’t interested. We stayed in bed for an hour drinking water and talking shit then she went. Not even a glass of wine / a cup of tea.. nil.. it was all about the cock. Actually not the cock, it was all about how far I was in her head.
    .
    She’s going to a family BBQ this afternoon and asked me what I was up to. I said I might go to a bbq (meaning CL600 Guy next door has invited me bc he is ignoring most of the rules like me).
    .
    She thinks I’m inviting myself on her family event and says “actually I don’t want to do the family thing, I just want you as my thing and I’ll turn up a few times a week.
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    🤷‍♂️ Damn…
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    But seriously This is absolutely perfect for me. Common problem is they catch luuurve and want the boooifriend / marriage.
    .
    I explain what I actually meant. And it’s all good.
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    So then I’ve got this slight worry about how far I’m pushing her in bed so I say “I’m pretty tuned in to you but you need to let me know if it gets too much”
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    She confirms it isn’t too much, she then goes on to say she doesn’t know where the limit is because she’s never had sex like it. She says she just doesn’t want anything visible etc..
    .
    Then we get the conversation that all the nurses at work are jealous bc they’ve never had sex like it either. Bear in mind I’m 5’8” on a good day and she’s taller than me. Sos it all in her head, and it’s all about the domination.
    .
    She’ll basically do what I want her to do and go as far as I want her to go as long as it “just happens”.
    .
    The main question is how do I get hold of the other nurses in the background.. any ideas?
    .
    Hope it’s not too hot where you boys are…

  2. Palma

    Secret society works until they catch feelz and want to be proprietary.

    So…

    The main question is how do I get hold of the other nurses in the background.. any ideas?

    Tell her to bring a friend over. You want to have a party.

  3. @PalmaSailor

    @HABD

    I’m gonna have to check up on US news. But I only get it via zero hedge – and I don’t even believe them
    most of the time.

    .
    that’s the spirit!!!…lol…
    .
    not much actual non-narrative sh*t (complete, non-spun reality) coming out lately (for a looong time)… mostly just two (or more) sides pushing competing narratives… gotta see into that liminal space between those and use your critical thinking…
    .
    .
    what you see is the public face of a semi-covert war…
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    my 2 basic questions i always ask myself is
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    1) who stands to lose/gain power/money (and how much…)…
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    and then
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    2) what mechanisms are in operation to make that^^^ happen…
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    there really is nothing new under the sun… at this point in history, all this sh*t is pretty well known AND labelled…lol
    .

    what you are seeing now (in burning-town usa), is entry-level ‘for public consumption’ insurgency operations in play…
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    i call it ‘Da ‘pocalypse Theater ™ ‘…
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    lol…
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    well known…
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    well studied…
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    completely predictable…
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    and the systemic racism of the ‘woke’ liberal progressives will continue to sht on black folks without a break… or even slowing down… (fkin’ progressives…)
    .
    .

    I am just astonished that anyone can change the statement of a sitting president without getting A visit from the men in Black. I wonder if he’s just totally deranged.
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    liberal echo-chambers really are a thing…lol
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    I only follow a handful of news outlets and our best political one is this one (mainly because of the unmoderated comments)

    https://order-order.com
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    thanks for the link… i’ll try to get to it, but i’m busy as f*k too…lol… almost tooo busy to ‘enjoy’
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    Da ‘pocalypse Theater ™
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    almost…lol
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    .

    The media here is publishing almost nothing unless it involves trying to derail BREXIT. They’re at the point of foaming at the mouth over it. They’re targeting anyone involved in making it actually happen and it’s degenerated into hysterical smearing.
    .
    .
    i see this as a combination of trying to resolve that cognitive dissonance and a guard dog situ having spun up wrt the ‘media’ being able to ‘shame’ folks into compliance… it’s not working any more (for the most part)… and they just can’t resolve the disconnect/change… just like a girl when her rolodex doesn’t work any more…lol
    .
    .
    This guy was instrumental in concocting the “evidence” leading to the war in Iraq.. I mean he was basically Blair’s No.1 advisor – just look at him:


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    cog dis on display!!!…lol… and he’s searching for some relevance… so he can ‘stay safe’… by virtue signaling his on-going ‘wokeness’…lol…
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    doesn’t have to make sense to YOU (or me)…lol… we are not the target audience…
    .
    .

    Now look at this lefty liberal Pro remain journalist activist. She just can’t let it drop to the point where BJ has called a halt to anyone answering her “questions”

    https://mobile.twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1266372786735345664

    She’s getting absolutely slaughtered by her own twitter feed and has taken “time out” (re calibrated her SSRI meds lol… stroke her cat etc..)
    .
    .
    same same…lol
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    I’ve never seen “politics” like it…
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    and thank Odin for THAT…lol
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    it’s almost as if when we finally get Brexit done some stuff is gonna come out of the closet that will these these elites at the mercy of a lynching and they’re petrified….
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    probably… but also, their whole world view is being challenged right now…lol… remember, the term is ‘useful IDIOT’…lol… that dunning-kruger graph doesn’t just curve itself…lol
    .
    .

    I honestly think we’re going to start to see lefty metropolitan elite types jumping off roofs soon. Or is that just wishful thinking.. lol..
    .
    hard to tell…lol… but hope is essential to life…lol
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    gratitude too… but that comes after…lol
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    Surely nothing illicit could surface… surely not…
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    lol… never!…lol… i want to see the viral videos of liberal heads actually exploding…lol
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    @Sentient

    Damn. So obvious I didn’t even think about that.
    .

    threesome!!!….lol
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    and props on those FRs!…
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    good luck!

  4. @kfg

    “One of the acts is a response test.”

    See how trump responds? If he just folds to pressure?

  5. Hi guys, just wundering.
    How did you – as young guys – start getting it all going. Like: Talking more to girls and motivating yourself to get it going better?

    In my case: There is a kind of circle of girls, of which at least three I would want to get it going with. As I do not have advanced skills or even real experience, I’m wondering about whom of them I should text and if it is going to thwarft my success at all if I start texting all three of them at once.

    If it is of interest: one is pretty intelligent, nice, sexy body – but ugly face & probably a kind of “easy start”. The next one is not as large, also intelligent, kind of sexy but not sure if she is as easy.

    The third one is a serious thing, sexy, tall and pretty but surely difficult.

    Given I’m kind of not-so-extrovert, what would you recommend me to do, who to pick? And how did you motivate yourselfes?

    Best regards from Germany
    NoNameNumber1

  6. “See how trump responds? If he just folds to pressure?”

    To a certain extent, but mostly to see how various mayors and governors respond.

    From Trump they actually want a strong reaction, to feed the narrative that he’s a repressive fascist.

  7. @NoNameNumber1

    Welcome.

    First thing first:

    What’s the age group (you and them)? Teenagers? Early 20s?

    How do you know each other? School? Work? Other?

    How would you describe your social skills? Can you hold a conversation with a girl? A group of girls? Mixed groups? Strangers? Etc.

    What’s your sexual/relationship experience?

    What’s with the “how to motivate myself”? Is that a girls related thing? Or something broader?

  8. Hello IRL
    – The age group: I’m 18, they are 17 and 18 years old.
    – We know each other from school.
    – My social skills are somewhere between introverted and decent, meaning I can hold conversation with single persons or small groups when isolated.
    – with mixed groups I usually have problems, but that really depends on the circumstance, like are they political (then I can hold conversation for literally days) or some bullshit I don’t give a fuck about (then I can hold it only short term), while it works better with isolated persons, where I can hold it somehow quite long.

    My sexual relationship experience is practically non-existent.
    Motivation is usually decent, but not in relation to girls.

    Thank you for your assistance

  9. SJF

    I’ll do this, is strength limited or concentrated on a mere physical one or considered more general – because all this characteristics seem to lead to a higher place in the male hierarchy.

    Best regards
    NoNameNumber1

  10. @PalmaSailor

    just an fyi to you and all…

    as the war sh*t gets rolling more…

    and this current version of Kristallnacht tries to get more traction…

    it looks like the ‘targeted minority publication bans’ are starting to ramp…

    western rifle shooters association (WRSA) was just been summarily taken down from wordpress…

    it was at

    https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/

    and as a result of that ban… now has moved to

    https://gab.com/WRSA

    everybody stay safe and

    good luck!

  11. @HABD

    Honestly, 2/3 of my businesses are fucked, the remaining 1/3 does give me a enough fuck you income to piss off for a couple of years.

    I’ve got a stink load of gubbermint cash funding in the bank on no personal guarantees, with more arriving next week.

    My son still won’t talk to me – much.

    The gubbermint have just dropped 3 investigations they have been pursuing against me. There’s one left with the tax office which I could conclude.

    I’m thinking of packing a rucksack and cycling across Italy for three to six months stopping overnight at tavernas doing cold beer, wine – hitting on local women and eating tapas all the way down to the south. Probably Sicily which I’ve been to before.

    Might even cycle down to @IAS

    In my entire life I’ve never been in a position where I could actually just fuck off.

    Whadya think?

  12. How do red pillers cope with assault and other trauma in childhood thats being repressed and it fucked up your life without realising it as it was repressed? Only realising it now, getting flash backs and realise my life has been stunted due to it. No amount of red pills or “being a fucking man” is going to help.
    Any thoughts, advice?

  13. @jimbo

    You’re in the right place and it’s my expert subject.

    You have to forgive the shit, only then can you move on.

    Come back with more detail and I’ll do what I can.

  14. @NoNameNumber1
    .
    Ok cool.
    So there are several areas to work on to turn you into a proper stud in the next few years. And by work I mean consistent effort. Up to you really.
    .
    The high level answer is this. This journey may start with you wanting to get some alone time with a girl to read the bible to till dawn. But eventually it’ll test your will to grow beyond that. Look for and hit various sticking points early on. Work multiple angles. Learn game (not just pickup), be more social, work out, play sports (nothing faggy, go more rugged), learn how to make money without trading your time for it, take risks. It’ll pay dividends later in life.
    .
    A bit more on the man-to-woman dynamic…
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    Start with the fundamentals. I’m not keen on recommending reading to people who avoid action because it can turn into another buffer all too easily. But if your experience is “practically non-existent”, let’s get some basics first.
    .
    I used to recommend Mystery Method, but now I think its narrative isn’t great for newbies.
    I’d say Savoy’s Magic Bullets is a better entry level book and teaches you exactly the same universal concepts:
    https://files.shroomery.org/attachments/7168866-MagicBullets.pdf
    The phone game section may feel a bit outdated and that’s because it was written back in the day when people used to call each other (shocker! lol)… Some say it’s still quite powerful and effective to just get a chick on the phone… and listen to her attraction spiking when you pass her shit tests. Field test yourself.
    .
    Speaking of field testing. You see, getting good with women is more an art than a science. So it goes with 1000s hours of experimentation (and thus practice), improving your moves and finding your own style. And with maaany failures… which you should treat as stepping stones, little lessons from the universe that lets you know what to fix and tweak.
    .
    So an art… but not completely random, right? There’s a fundamental process that doesn’t change irrespective of the school you choose to follow. This is the underlying evo-bio-psychology of it all. Worked in 2020 BC and works in 2020 AD. Magic Bullets will give you more to digest, but the gist of it is this:
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    1) You meet a girl.
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    2) You reach a social hook: she’s fine with talking to you.
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    2) You make her attracted to you: she sees you as a high value man, gives you indicators of interest (IOIs).
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    3) You build trust (I used to say comfort but Archie convinced me the word is trust; she doesn’t need to feel too comfortable and it’s not some rapport or soulmate connection… although these may be trust building, but let’s not go there now): she observes you’re congruent, not sneaky, socially savvy, fluent in secret society womanese, know how to read the room, lead and handle her emotionally and physically, maybe even have pre-selection from other women.
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    4) You arouse her: she starts thinking about reading the bible and is ready to study together.
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    5) You read the bible and she can’t get enough of the lord’s word. Amen.
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    In that order. All these can be compressed to under 30 minutes in one place or stretched out to multiple dates in different locations over a longer period. This is where the different schools and styles come into play. You need to be able to read the situation though, have logistics sorted and lead. Logistics trump game as the saying goes. And no leading, no progression.
    .
    With all this said, you can choose any school of routines and styles you want. Doesn’t matter what it is as long as you commit, field test it and follow it through. Because it’ll all boil down to the above universal process. The differences are only in the social context, time scales, flavor of the day and brand. Just don’t mix them randomly.
    .
    The key is learning by doing. Like riding a bicycle.
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    Mind you: each canned routine/example you’ll find needs to be read in context. It’s a test of your social skill and calibration. Even the best joke/script can be ruined by a bad performer. What works when a girl is aroused may cost you a harsh rejection when she isn’t. That’s why you socialize and talk to girls, so that you can get attuned to subtle nuances. You learn to read people and calibrate by being social. No other way man. And you can forget your introvert/extrovert labels already; a distinction without a difference. It’s a matter of exposure and experience with getting talkative/into state, that’s all. Baby step it.
    .
    On the three friends.
    Have you all returned to school yet? What’s the likelihood of you meeting any of them in person in the next weeks? And is that your last year? I guess this is all pretty complicated now and your main avenue will be texting/calling.
    .
    Let’s do this. Have a look at Magic Bullets and come up with a few texts you’d be thinking of sending.
    .
    Hint #1: You don’t suggest going to church together if you don’t feel there’s that spark. So you’d need to: a) test the waters, b) induce the sparks.
    Hint #2: http://authorcloud.co/MrVs-Guide-To-Texting-Girls-dq16ldatn

  15. @IRL
    thank you a lot, I just finished Mr.V’s advice, reflected a little bit and am heading to Magic Bullets. As I don’t want to use it as a buffer as you said, I’m going to come up with a ping idea before reading it.

    On the girls:
    It is unlikely I’m going to see them the next month or so since school is basically done (just graduating, two oral exams left).
    I think of starting with the top tier one, french mother and kind of nice to look at, while always very reserved (while I’m sure I’ll handle it).

    As a ping: Whenn I got this right, you guys use Gifs or pictures as ping, don’t you? Though I did not ultimately get it, the Picture itself isn’t that important, so I could well use a picture of the oldie tractor I painted new last summer, as well as a picture of the english book I happen to learn, as well as some glass of wine subtitled somehow cheeky, but it should refer to something about her.

    So as I happen to already have the picture of the tractor, I could use it, maybe adding some statement, like “bet that sounds better than an exam!”

    What do you think?

  16. @NoNameNumber1
    .
    I’m not gonna interfere here except to mention it’s worth practicing talking to ALL women you interact with in real life.
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    Make an effort to talk to women in real life that you have absolutely o interest in whatsoever. The old butt ugly woman on the checkout – yeah her. Ask her about her day. Talk to her, pass the time of day. Enjoy the interaction. Open questions which demand more than a “Yes” or “No” answer:
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    How (has your day been)
    When (did you start work today)
    Where
    Why
    What
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    As opposed to closed questions which allow them to shut you down:
    Have (you had a good day) – her “No” – you = Fucked
    Do (you like your job) – her “Yes” – then you have to lead again
    Are
    Will
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    You get the picture?
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    To be successful everyone needs to have fun. You’ll realise why later.
    .
    @SJF
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    “I know for a fact that PalmaSailor did this. Became aware of his Dark Side (a concept extrapolated by Carl Jung–Google that..And control for it) and controlled and channeled his creative energies in order to better himself.”
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    I wasn’t actually conscious that I’d done that though I might have done and that may have come across.
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    @IRL
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    “You build trust (I used to say comfort but Archie convinced me the word is trust; she doesn’t need to feel too comfortable and it’s not some rapport or soulmate connection…”
    .
    Archie is right. They don’t necessarily want Comfort, sometimes they want the exact opposite, however they really do want and need trust.

  17. Trust/comfort

    Comfort = comfortable with you.

    They want o feel that they aren’t going to be murdered or raped by a beta.

    Yareally had a useful distinction…

    You can have really great rapport with someone but it doesn’t mean you’d lend them your Ferrari.

    The calibrated kino, bouncing venues all very important in establishing comfort/trust.

    IRL that text guide is great. Paging @ Morpheus

  18. @PalmaSailor

    @HABD

    Honestly, 2/3 of my businesses are fucked, the remaining 1/3 does give me a enough fuck you income to piss off for a couple of years.

    sorry to hear some of that, but glad to hear you’re not completely wiped out…

    serious question… isn’t one of those fundamental business concepts that in the middle of chaos there are ‘opportunities’?…

    i have no idea how you structure that inquiry to find those opportunities, but have YOU looked at this?… bc i gotta tell you, with the amount of chaos in the system, those opportunities should be able to spin up a couple gazillion in profits…lol

    I’ve got a stink load of gubbermint cash funding in the bank on no personal guarantees, with more arriving next week.

    stock more food…lol… but not kidding…

    i always say that, bc in the history of the world, conflict/war always brings some type of famine… and we have been in that type of situ for some time… and we are entering a ramping of that type of conflict now…

    it has different mechanisms to cause that, but the end result is the same… i think you guys even had rationing well into the 50s after ww2…

    My son still won’t talk to me – much.

    sorry to hear that… just keep playing, he’s in a tough spot… it’ll all work out…

    The gubbermint have just dropped 3 investigations they have been pursuing against me. There’s one left with the tax office which I could conclude.

    see… silver linings…lol

    I’m thinking of packing a rucksack and cycling across Italy for three to six months stopping overnight at tavernas doing cold beer, wine – hitting on local women and eating tapas all the way down to the south. Probably Sicily which I’ve been to before.

    Might even cycle down to @IAS

    In my entire life I’ve never been in a position where I could actually just fuck off.

    Whadya think?

    that sounds like fun… can you take your son along?… an adventure like that might pry him loose from his current situ… and either way, you won’t be the bad guy…lol

    a couple of concerns… is the virus worked out in that area?… bc if not, that still impacts any emergency hospital/med resources… as well as the local economies…

    also, is the current version of kristallnacht playing out in that area?… i know it’s mostly us-based, but the ‘plan’ is for global control, so there might be some activity in whatever AO you are passing through…

    mostly though, that sh*t is easy enough to avoid… if you are mobile anyway (can’t just move your house out of the area…)… even in the us cities where they are burning and looting the worst… just gotta have some local awareness (which you need anyway bc of local crime…lol)…

    good luck!

  19. @NoNameNumber1

    you are getting great advice… i co-sign all of it…

    and props on even starting this journey… it won’t be easy, but it is worthwhile…

    (@IRL… great breakdown!… and great links too…)

    good luck!

  20. @PalmaSailor
    Thanks for asking.

    Firstly I lost my best friend who was killed in car crash when we were about 7 yrs old, I got no therapy or even to talk to someone about my grief, my parents were and still are distant- we lived in same house but they were completely aloof about any personal, psychological care and needs purely the physical. It was like living with 2 adult lodgers!

    So I became withdrawn, I didnt have any other “best friends” at school to confide in- yes sucks- and I was unable to cope fully and make close friends, so I let school life carry me along. I became “mr nice guy”, terrified to step forward and assert myself, got bullied too in school. All this affected my grades too, scraped by in exams, same in high school, failed high school diploma, repeated the year and passed it.
    Tried college but dropped out after few months, my idiot parents fully expected me to finish college, go to grad school!

    Fucking nuts but they didnt want to hear when I tried to tell them in school how I struggled processing the pain etc.

    I then got job in manual construction and been doing that ever since. Im 45 now.

    Secondly when I was about 8 yrs old, my parents had me attend church and be an “altar boy” bullshit. A few different priests over the following years used to physically assault me, hit me (not sexually lucky enough but I’d say some of the ministers could have done sexual stuff if they got the chance- who knows), but they did it to others too, behind closed doors in the sacristy with no witnesses etc except us.
    Me and the other boys had no way to express ourselves to our parents, cos our parents incl mine were religious fanatics, the church and ministers were literally living gods/saints, they could do no wrong etc. Crazy shit.

    Some these freaks are dead, few alive, i dont think anyone accused them/police action etc, they got away with it, I dont want to be torn apart from police interrogations, ive heard of others who came forward, their lives were shredded by perps lawyers etc, no I dont want to experience that.

    So school and church were hell on earth.

    I have siblings, 3 older brothers but they didnt experience as much as me. They were remote too, although we lived together as happy family etc, they were few years older and we didn’t “hang out” or talk to each other about personal stuff much together.

    After school i had to stay home and “study” in my room, only allowed out for maybe 1 hour a day to play, meet neighbours kids etc.

    I repressed all this but not fully, it was there below the surface, I’ve got a LOT of rage in me, dont know how to express it, im very scared if i let it out i might go crazy, lose control etc, but I got to release it. I felt suicidal soo many times, even plotting and planning how/where to finish myself, but I stopped myself.

    I feel shame too in my life, that I haven’t lived up to my full potential, my parents made that were clear to me when I dropped out of college, that I “failed” them! Nothing about the effect on me, always them!
    I told them about the abuse in a round about way in the past, trying to guage their reaction, but they accused me of lying! Never would their idols do such a thing etc!

    Another thing, my parents are 2 generations older than me and my siblings. My parents are same generation/age as my then school friends grandparents! So they literally were living in a different era than when my brothers and I lived in.

    I attended night school over the years to get further qualifications etc but books etc was like a maze! I dropped out from them too.
    I went to a counselor to identify learning problems and they helped me to identify exactly my faults but putting it into practice is hard- yes I didn’t persevere at it when I should have, maybe I will try again now.

    This lockdown has multiplied it now, Im realising I need to confront it and move on with life and get past this darkness but its difficult being alone.

    Trying to get a girlfriend/fuck buddy is difficult, I can chat to women, get past shit tests but its the part where I have to get that “hook” part of the interaction I fail, cos I cant express myself genuinely/authentically as Ive got a mask on, and I have to bridge that gap to get the woman “invested” in me etc, I fail. I have a black hole inside me, Im terrified to be open with others, as Ive depended on my self all these years, being open with others is really terrifying. Yes Ive tried “to fake it til my make it”, but its not easy as I dont know what to do in intimate relationships or game etc. My experiences in friendships with other men as friends and with women is tiny, almost non existant.

    Tbh im still a child in a mans body. I dont even feel my age, I do still feel lost and that Ive not matured at all as an adult as I cant express myself fully, Im holding myself back in all facets of my life, im trying to break through but I dont know where to start.
    With this recession, no way I can afford another therapist etc, anyway its not easy to find a good one who genuinely understands, thats why I came here, talk to other men.

    Thanks for listening.

  21. @Jimbo

    There’s a lot there, and I’m on UK time so evening now. I’ll get to it properly tomorrow.

  22. @HABD

    @PalmaSailor
    @HABD
    Honestly, 2/3 of my businesses are fucked, the remaining 1/3 does give me a enough fuck you income to piss off for a couple of years.
    sorry to hear some of that, but glad to hear you’re not completely wiped out…
    serious question… isn’t one of those fundamental business concepts that in the middle of chaos there are ‘opportunities’?…
    .
    [Yeah so that’s the theory and probably also the practice. But things are moving very fast and what may be an opportunity one day isn’t the next. For instance old friend has an acquaintance that thought it was a good idea to stock up on masks etc.. only to find the market is swamped with them and the moment has passed. He has almost an entire warehouse full of shit he can’t sell.
    .
    “Sorry to hear about the fire at the warehouse Moyshe…”
    .
    “Be quiet Hyme, it’s NEXT Friday!! 🤷‍♂️”
    .
    Other guy locally thought it was an idea to deliver fresh fruit and veg boxes which totally kicked off initially and he thought he was gonna be a MILLIONAIRE!! …. aaaaaannnnd then it was gone! Just as soon as the big boys stepped into that.
    .
    One of my other businesses should be busy bc right now people “should” want what I’m selling, but it’s flat in its arse because absolutely no one is spending unless it’s food or booze. This is TOTALLY different from any past recessions I’ve lived through.]
    .
    i have no idea how you structure that inquiry to find those opportunities, but have YOU looked at this?… bc i gotta tell you, with the amount of chaos in the system, those opportunities should be able to spin up a couple gazillion in profits…lol
    .
    [I usually have 2-3 ideas on the go at any one time in the back of my head but the cupboard is bare right now.
    .
    One of the strategies for surviving an economic storm is to snuggle in behind a great big fluffy wildebeest (that’s got a load of cash) but can’t quite do what you can / or can’t do it as efficiently. I did this after 2008 when I sold the customer book in my debt renegotiation business to an AIM listed PLC, I then continued to supply them with customers for cash munny. It sacrificed long term value for short term cash flow. Not ideal but it was survival.
    .
    I thought about going back into that but regulations have tightened bc banks don’t want their loans re negotiated and even if I applied for the licence now it would probably take a year to get it. That’s if they approve me.
    .
    Right now my thought process is to get behind a pharmaceutical company with an idea I have but it will be a start up as opposed to something that has wind in it like I had last time. So much more difficult and speculative. Needs about 3 weeks on a beach with the laptop and cold beer working on a business plan, then you could spend two year and not get the thing off the ground.
    .
    The first problem with more straightforward businesses is that being the old bastard that I am I don’t believe the true damage to the economy is going to be visible for at least another 6 months. Da gubbermint has a big arse band aid on that right now with furlough cash. This is set to be withdrawn gradually from August.
    .
    That means that things are gonna get real this winter. I think all this “V shaped recovery” stuff is just bullshit for two very simple reasons:
    .
    Half the population (our middle class) are just scared shitless (or enjoying the excuse) to even put their noses out of their front doors so they’re not spending money they’ve got.
    .
    The other half that aren’t scared shitless (our working classes) live pay check to pay check so at most there’s about 4-5 weeks capacity in the system so don’t have any money to spend.
    .
    Sooo.. people’s habits have changed.
    .
    Businesses have started to go over like dominoes so the Parrot is more or less dead.
    .
    Negative I know – but I think it’s a “Great Depression” type dead Parrot:
    .

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZw35VUBdzo

    ]
    .
    I’ve got a stink load of gubbermint cash funding in the bank on no personal guarantees, with more arriving next week.
    stock more food…lol… but not kidding…
    i always say that, bc in the history of the world, conflict/war always brings some type of famine… and we have been in that type of situ for some time… and we are entering a ramping of that type of conflict now…
    it has different mechanisms to cause that, but the end result is the same… i think you guys even had rationing well into the 50s after ww2…
    .
    [Yeah we did have rationing. My grandmother used to pour what was left of the vinegar back into the bottle after it had been on the fish and chips to re use it.
    .
    There’s only so much food you can realistically store in a city centre apartment and I’ve already got quite a bit.]
    .
    My son still won’t talk to me – much.
    sorry to hear that… just keep playing, he’s in a tough spot… it’ll all work out…
    .
    [Out of the question, he’s locked down in barracks refusing to see me in case I infect him with Da pocalypse – his mother has both herself and him petrified.]
    .
    The gubbermint have just dropped 3 investigations they have been pursuing against me. There’s one left with the tax office which I could conclude.
    see… silver linings…lol
    I’m thinking of packing a rucksack and cycling across Italy for three to six months stoppinovernight at tavernas doing cold beer, wine – hitting on local women and eating tapas all the way down to the south. Probably Sicily which I’ve been to before.
    Might even cycle down to @IAS
    In my entire life I’ve never been in a position where I could actually just fuck off.
    Whadya think?
    that sounds like fun… can you take your son along?… an adventure like that might pry him loose from his current situ… and either way, you won’t be the bad guy…lol
    .
    [Nice idea but it’ll be a hard no. Every attempt to see him has been rejected for coming up to 2 years. The only one that succeeded was when I called the ex wife’s bf and told him to get my son ready as I was going to be on their doorstep in 15 minutes to collect. He was handed over on the front drive and my ex was looking through the window absolutely terrified. I have no idea why she is so absolutely terrified of me.]
    .
    a couple of concerns… is the virus worked out in that area?… bc if not, that still impacts any emergency hospital/med resources… as well as the local economies…
    .
    [I’m not watching the news but I don’t think we have the reporting to know yet. I’ll say one thing, on a personal level, I don’t think I’m right yet. I think my immune system isn’t what it was. I used to be more or less bulletproof and I’m getting shitty coughs, ear ache, not quite on top like i used to be.]
    .
    also, is the current version of kristallnacht playing out in that area?… i know it’s mostly us-based, but the ‘plan’ is for global control, so there might be some activity in whatever AO you are passing through…
    .
    [It’s beginning to play out over here. Last night I was getting cold beer with a couple of local men in a “speakeasy” that’s cropped up in the back of his shop when all the young snowflakes walked past with their virtue signalling placards etc.. THOSE ones aren’t the problem, majority silly little girls that need their arses smacked and putting to bed.
    .
    But – If you head to some of the areas around the cities I can confidently predict the place is gonna lite up like a tinder box very soon with some real bad arses smashing and looting. It did in 2011, and now they want to destroy the country rather than see a successful BREXIT so there’s a lot more motivation to incite this shit.]
    .
    mostly though, that sh*t is easy enough to avoid… if you are mobile anyway (can’t just move your house out of the area…)… even in the us cities where they are burning and looting the worst… just gotta have some local awareness (which you need anyway bc of local crime…lol)…
    good luck!
    .
    [So yeah, the idea of cycling through the Italian countryside for 3-4 months has its appeal.]

  23. Palma

    and my ex was looking through the window absolutely terrified. I have no idea why she is so absolutely terrified of me.]

    Maybe she is scared of herself…

  24. IRL that text guide is great. Paging @ Morpheus

    Haha, I’m here…paying attention, reading along. I will check out that text guide ASAP, might come in handy for tomorrow.

    So, Sentient, Palma, some really awesome recent comments. I’ve actually got a ton of follow up question, thoughts, and comments on a number of things…which I will try to get to soon. One main thing is Palma’s comment and the comment about the “mature woman” which is sort of an oxymoron really, but yeah, the mindset of the over 40+ “mature” woman. One of the things I am still wrestling with is what age demographic am I likely to have the best success with, 20-29, 30-39, 40+ “mature” woman. Except for the “relationship” that I had about a year after my marriage ended in 2017 (she was 45) I’ve never dated or fucked women 40+. One of my initial thoughts coming out of my marriage is that 40+ would be shooting fish in the barrel as far as fucking, but it hasn’t played out that way so far, and I’ve begun to think for a number of reasons that 20-29 are going to be better hunting ground for me and generally they are hotter anyways. More on this topic later.

    So I matched with a 32 year old on Bumble last night, and she messaged me around midnight. I will try to post the exchange later. End result, I got her phone number and plan on texting her tomorrow to set up a meet for Saturday or Sunday night at a bar for drinks. Where I am at, stuff has JUST OPENED up a little as of June 1. I’m looking forward to trying some bar/night game and getting off my 100% dependence on OLD (online dating apps) for prospects. I don’t want to rehash old territory but OLD sucks, and I’m reassured to see some other “Red Pill” guys basically echoing that (see Red Pill Dad’s latest post for a comprehensive analysis of OLD dynamics). In the beginning, I was kind of WTF is going on here as far as matches, and I still get tons of ridiculous matches,45 year old whales with faces like a wrinkled dog, but with some picture tweaks, its gotten marginally better but probably nowhere near women I simply need to practice approaching IRL.

    Bumble girl – I give myself C+, I probably still fucked up a bunch of things which I look forward to hearing about once I post it but hey I’ve got to get better, I think I still messaged too much “dog” and not enough “cat” but i was in the middle of a workout and trying to rush through. Sentient, I think I effectively did one thing which you’ve repeatedly drilled THANK YOU which is bounce the conversation off the app as soon as possible to direct texting to her phone. I think I nailed this part of the exchange, as I directly requested her number as opposed to asking for it and I THINK I did it from the right frame. Again, I look forward to feedback once I post it.

    On a different note, post marriage relationship woman who I’ll call the Nurse who is now married herself recently “accidently” dialed me one night after 10 PM…I wasn’t around to take the call but texted her when she said it was “accidental”. Nurse is married to quintessential Beta Bucks provider, engineer, probably has Asbergers, and makes 150K +, sex with him sucks I’m sure, she dated him previously to our relationship and mentioned once him lasting 3 seconds. During the text exchange, Nurse told me they split times between 2 different homes, and that Nurse had sent her 2 kids away to live with Dad because of COVID. I’m guessing Nurse was home alone when she “accidently” called me…not sure how to play this and how direct. Nurse and I used to play alot of tennis so I did text her if she was interested in playing any tennis at which point my plan is for the shirt to come off as we play, and maybe remind her a bit of things in the past. She hasn’t responded yet…so let me know what the best way here is to determine if Nurse is basically toying with the idea of cheating on Hubby and fucking me again. Nurse could really suck cock incredibly so I certainly have thought about that.

  25. @NoNameNumber1
    .
    I don’t want to use it as a buffer
    .
    Perfect!
    .
    I think of starting with the top tier one
    .
    Why limit it to one girl?
    The thing that hinders progress is scarcity and clinging to “that one great option”.
    Nip that limiting belief in the bud. Figure out what to send to all your female contacts. (Even more than those 3 girls. As @Palma said, you want to develop the skill and mindset that opening anyone is fine.)
    And it’s ok if you send the same ping to all girls too.
    .
    As a ping: Whenn I got this right, you guys use Gifs or pictures as ping, don’t you? Though I did not ultimately get it
    .
    The purpose of a ping (text or image) is to test the waters (is she responsive?) and elicit a reaction (pique her interest, curiosity etc.) without much investment. Ultimately, it’s also to have fun (and thus taking the piss is fine).
    .
    Have a look at these examples and their context (pay attention to when Krauser uses pings from different categories and what they intend to achieve):
    https://krauserpua.com/2016/08/25/how-to-ping-a-lead/
    https://krauserpua.com/2016/01/07/the-text-clinic-is-in-session/
    .
    the Picture itself isn’t that important
    .
    That’s right. The logic of the message is not important either. It’s about playing with that cat with a piece of string. That’s why “…” works well too.
    .
    So as I happen to already have the picture of the tractor, I could use it, maybe adding some statement, like “bet that sounds better than an exam!”
    .
    This is a good direction. You don’t ask questions, you don’t want anything from her, you start being cheeky. I like that you’re going for a tease in the caption.
    .
    What reaction (thoughts and feelings) do you expect to provoke though?
    Are you trying to:
    – impress her with the work you did? (not a great underlying motive BTW)
    – show her you’re doing something exciting? (would it excite her too?)
    – make her think of a possible adventure/thrill with you? (is it adventurous/thrilling?)
    – other?
    .
    Answer this and see if your message accomplishes your goal.
    .
    The best way to go about it is to learn by doing and putting it on the line.
    And the more girls you message the better (avoid the sniper mentality).
    .
    Let’s see you in action.
    Good luck and have fun.

  26. On the tractor ping.
    From Krauser’s How To Ping A Lead:

    The basic photo ping is the Window On My World. Send her a photo that represents what you’re doing, or thinking, or something you saw that caught your interest. Found the photo? Okay, now STOP! Do not immediately send it.

    Think.

    How can I build a mini-mythology or drama around this image? How can I make this photo of a teddy bear next to a cheeseburger interesting? I saw two dogs get their leashes tangled up and fall over, how can I make that a funnier mental image?

    You never simply take a picture of your coffee or steak and say “I’m eating steak and drinking coffee”. That’s just step one. Step two is to dress it up and make it larger than life. Make the photo composition interesting and add something – “I’m eating the world’s juiciest steak. I might sell my house and buy a ranch in Argentina. I’ll make a great cowboy”

  27. @Jimbo
    .
    I had written You a long reply but it’s very simple really.
    .
    You’re 45 and still blaming your parents / the church / the moon landings for shit that happened in your childhood?
    .
    Your friend dies when you were 7 and you got no support? And you’re 45 now and it’s still a problem?
    .
    Well Boo fucking hoo.
    .
    You just need to get over all that shit that no one can do anything about. People come from far worse than that and make a success of their lives. But when they do that they accept its down to them and stop blaming everyone else.
    .
    “im trying to break through but I dont know where to start.”
    .
    Get up tomorrow, look in the mirror and accept it’s down to you to make it a happen and stop blaming everyone else and you might just make it.

  28. @Morpheus

    Why are you fucking at round with tennis to give you the excuse to take your shirt off with a woman you’ve already fucked?

    Honestly stop using your body as a fucking buffer. You lean on that at every excuse.

    Once you’ve used it to get the intro you need to get into her head, and if you’re moping around like a puppy dog they’re all gonna shut down regardless of how hawt and tall you are.

    She texted you bc she’s bored shitless and dtf… so just text her to “come over later” bc you’ve got strawberries in the fridge that won’t eat themselves.

  29. IRL
    I think about commenting it somehow like
    “I wanted to do this, can’t you just eat all that is on your plate?”
    Because it’s rainy today.
     
    [Since the meme here is that’s because someone left some food on his plate.]
     
    Edit: Inserting the picture seems to not work out properly.

  30. Palma,

    I appreciate your comment! A little clarification and context:

    Again, Nurse called me one night out of the blue after 10 PM, I was asleep, and I texted her back. A few days later she claimed she “accidently” called me, and we had a long text convo of “catching up”.

    Now, I don’t know what sequence of button pushing or swiping would be required for an “accidental” call, but I am at least entertaining the possibility she is being honest, and on the other hand, maybe the mood struck here, and she wanted to see my availability…I really don’t know. I think she is somewhat committed to being faithful to beta provider hubby. The purpose in my mind for the tennis match is to get better clarity if she is still attracted and DTF, and I figured I could better assess that in person? I guess I’m reluctant to move much more aggressively with her until I get clearer signs that sex with me is what she wants.

    I mentioned the story with Paralegal before. Paralegal and Nurse were “friends” up until around December/January. Paralegal who I fucked messaged me out of the blue in April, and we had a text exchange. I told her Nurse had gotten married in February and she was surprised because Nurse had told her she was going to break up with future hubby in December. For whatever motivations, she decided to go through with marrying the guy. As a side point, she called me the night before she got married and i did not answer the call. She later texted she was giving me a “heads up”.

    Let’s rewind, Nurse and I went to high school together, we reconnected on a dating app, she had no fucking idea who I was as I don’t look like I did in high school. We were friends for about 4 months, and she aggressively pursued me. First time, I shot her down. Second time, I was like, OK, I haven’t been laid in forever since divorce, let’s just go with this, and sexual relationship with Nurse started. It was very intense sexual relationship for about 10 months until she caught me with an online Bumble account and then said our “relationship” felt like I was just “using her for sex”. And that was the end of that. i broke it off as I wasn’t going to stay in something where the sexual intensity had evaporated because I wouldn’t “commit” to something longer-term.

    We’ve already established here my Game sucks and needs much work so Nurse wasn’t enthusiastically pursuing me and fucking me for 10 months because of my incredible Game and Charisma lol. I actually asked her soon after our sexual relationship began why she was so aggressive in pursuit, and she specifically mentioned seeing me workout in the gym, and my tricep…she had some weird tricep fetish. So my thought was simply to go back to what worked before in generating attraction in her while I continue to try and improve and practice my Game skills. I’m clearly not at a point yet where I am going to pull strictly off my tight Game and charismatic messaging lol. In the meantime, I think it is important that I start having sex with someone soon just to get the monkey off my back even if it means banging some really barely fuckable women. There hasn’t been much opportunity the past 2 months with the lockdowns and things are just opening up here now. I’ve got another Bumble chick who looks like she wants to meet. I’ll post that exchange too.

    I’m really not sure if Nurse wants to fuck again, I think it is possible, but I’m also open to the possibility her call to me was in fact “accidental”. I figured the tennis match would be a good way to test it out more in person and see what kind of vibe I get. I mean is she really is DTF? And looking for plausible deniability? Then meeting for tennis, and allowing for something to “just happen” seems rational?

  31. Fuck, how in fuck’s name do you get paragraph breaks now…I left a line and it still didn’t show the paragraph breaks. Sorry for the wall of text with no separation.

  32. “I guess I’m reluctant to move much more aggressively with her until I get clearer signs that sex with me is what she wants.”

    Ahhhh damn what’s the matter with you?

    Fucking clearer signs? Fuck that noise. She can get her fucking arse over and suck your cock or fuck off and stop wasting your time.

    This is your whole problem. You need to fucking own these women and stop dancing round them.

    This one has now been round to see me 4 times. She’s taller than me and I haven’t even spent £10 on her. No small talk. It’s all about the sex.

    https://imgur.com/a/28Aa8WI

  33. So I’m just kind of fucking around here playing with these concepts so I just sent one of these “ping” texts to the Bumble woman where there was the date 2 and things just fizzled from there. In our early discussions, she talked about being into “goat yoga” which I had never heard of…here is what I sent, she responded a minute later. I’ll admit I’m confused, WTF is this about? I mean, simply ignoring me and not responding would seem to be the clearest way to send “hey, I’m not interested”. Not really sure how to follow up from here. Nothing??? Let the hamster wheel turn? Send another ping in a few weeks?

    https://imgur.com/a/RgxhPBm

    So now what?

  34. @Morpheus
    .
    I dunno
    .
    My gut – all these problems are bc you’re not escalating hard enough. She doesn’t want pictures of a ducking goat, she wants to be on her back being nailed so hard she can’t walk.
    .
    She wants to sit in her boring arse job tomorrow with her parts still aching and sore reminding her of the fantasy escapism she’s having with you – but she can’t say it.
    .
    In fact she doesn’t even know it consciously bc you haven’t bought THAT out in her. And that’s YOUR job Charlie Brown.
    .
    You should have been escalating on date 1, never mind date 2. I mean date 2 should have been more or less foregone conclusion.
    .
    I must confess to my one trick pony here, but get her back to cook. Honestly it’s got plausible deniability written all over it and they fall for it every time bc they WANT to come back but can’t look like a slut.
    .
    You shouldn’t be sending texts of cute animals after date 2.
    .
    You’re running the “nice guy infinite loop” and she’ll get bored with that fast.

  35. So here is Bumble exchange for feedback…I’m sure I fucked up plenty lol. My sense is maybe I was still too much “dog” and not enough “cat”, but I think the one part I did get right was basically “assuming the sale” on her number and just asked what it was rather then can I get it. Afterwards I realized the throwaway final line about action movies was probably unnecessary. I also tried to keep the messaging short…it seems like one lesson I am seeing repeatedly is do NOT get into long drawn out conversations which is my tendency so I tried to keep this brief, and introduce the time constraint. Again on Bumble the woman has to message first

    https://imgur.com/a/wih4b1a

    Not sure if I missed some openings to do more “cat” stuff…I got the number and trying to set up meet

  36. @Morpheus

    why are you afraid of sexualizing your interactions?…

    what is the worst thing that can happen?…

    that she makes a trip over to your place after midnight and s*cks your dick as your first meeting?… (which would put your world-view at risk?…)

    what is the best thing that could happen?… that she gets indignant and shames you back onto the reservation?… (which would confirm your world-view?…)

    what do you actually want?… and are you actually pursuing THAT is a straight line?…

    serious questions…

    bc you need to get some clarity for yourself…

    good luck!

  37. Morpheus

    So Nurse girl sabotages your hook up with paralegal… Calls you they day before her wedding… Then accidentally texts you a few months post marriage?

    OK. I’m sure it’s all a big coincidence…

    smh

    A – always. B – be. C – Closing. Always Be Closing… and “They don’t walk on the lot lest they want to buy”…

    Alec Baldwin: Let me have your attention for a moment. ‘Cause you’re talkin’ about what…you’re
    talkin’ ’bout…bitchin’ about that sale you shot, some son of a bitch don’t want to buy land, somebody
    don’t want what you’re selling, some broad you’re trying to screw, so forth, let’s talk about something
    important. Are they all here?
    Kevin Spacey: All but one.
    Baldwin: Well, I’m going anyway. Let’s talk about something important. (sees Lemmon pouring coffee).
    Put that coffee down. Coffee’s for closer’s only. You think I’m fuckin’ with you? I am not funkin’ with
    you. I’m here from downtown. I’m here from Mitch and Murray. And I’m here on a mission of mercy.
    Your name’s Levine?
    Jack Lemmon: Yeah.
    Baldwin: You call yourself a salesman, you son of a bitch.
    Ed Harris: I don’t gotta listen to this shit.
    Baldwin: You certainly don’t pal ’cause the good news is you’re fired. The bad news is you got all you
    got, just one week to regain your job, starting with tonight, starting with tonight’s sits. Oh, have I got
    your attention now? Good. ‘Cause we’re adding a little something to this month’s sale contest. As you
    all know, first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anybody want to see second prize? Second prize is a set of
    steak knives. Third prize is your fired. You get the picture? You laughing now? You got leads. Mitch
    and Murray paid good money. Get their names to sell them. You can’t close the leads you’re given, you
    can’t close shit, you are shit, hit the bricks pal and beat it ’cause you are going out.
    Lemmon: The leads are weak.
    Baldwin: The leads are weak. The fuckin’ leads are weak? You’re weak. I’ve been in this business 15
    years …
    Harris: What’s your name?
    Baldwin: Fuck you, that’s my name. You know why mister? Cause you drove a Hyundai to get here
    tonight, I drove an 80,000 dollar BMW. That’s my name. (To Lemmon) And your name is you’re
    wanting. You can’t play in the man’s game, you can’t close them? Then go home and tell your wife your
    troubles. Because only one thing counts in this life. Get them to sign on the line which is dotted. You
    hear me you fuckin’ faggots.
    (Flips the blackboard)
    ABC. A, Always, B, Be, C, Closing. Always be closing. Always be closing. AIDA. Attention. Interest.
    Decision. Action. Attention. Do I have your attention? Interest. Are you interested? I know you are
    ’cause it’s fuck or walk. You close or you hit the bricks. Decision. Have you made your decision for
    Christ? And action. AIDA. Get out there. You got the prospects coming in, you think they came in to
    get out of the rain? A guy don’t walk on the lot lest he wants to buy. They’re sitting out there waiting to
    give you their money. Are you going to take it? Are you man enough to take it? (To Harris) What’s the
    problem, pal?
    Harris: You, boss, you’re such a hero, you’re so rich, how come you’re coming down here and wasting
    your time with such a bunch of bums?
    Baldwin: You see this watch? You see this watch?
    Harris: Yeah.
    Baldwin: That watch costs more than your car. I made 970,000 dollars last year, how much you make?
    You see pal, that’s who I am, and you’re nothing. Nice guy? I don’t give a shit. Good father. Fuck you,
    go home and play with your kids. You want to work here, close. You think this is abuse? You think this
    is abuse, you cock-sucker. You can’t take this, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit. If you don’t
    like it, leave. I can go out there tonight, the materials you got, make myself 15,000 dollars. Tonight. In
    two hours. Can you? Can you?
    Go and do likewise. AIDA. Get mad you son-of-a-bitch. Get mad. You know what it takes to sell realestate? It takes brass balls to sell real estate. Go and do likewise, gents. The money’s out there, you pick
    it up, it’s yours, you don’t, I got no sympathy for you. You want to go out on those sits tonight and
    close, close, it’s yours, if not, you’re going to be shining my shoes. And you know what you’ll be
    saying. Bunch of losers sitting around in a bar: ”Oh yeah, I used to be a salesman. It’s a tough racket.”
    These are the new leads. These are the Glengarry leads. And to you, they’re gold. And you don’t get
    them. Why? Because to give them to you is just throwing them away. They’re for closers. I’d wish you
    good luck, but you wouldn’t know what to do with it if you got it. (To Harris) And to answer your
    question, pal: Why am I here? I came here because Mitch and Murray asked me to, they asked me for a
    favor. I said the real favor, follow my advice and fire your fuckin’ ass because a loser is a loser.

    I’m with Palma, you’ve had a 10 month torrid relationship with her, you don’t need plausible deniability so much…

    What you need is a window… since she is married her time is limited…

    You just put the shirt thing in the way to just getting a window…

    on GOAT girl

    STOp with the !!!!! Also see how your response just dead ended that… Think of five OPEN responses that would have moved things forward instead of “For Sure!”…

  38. @Sentient
    .
    “ you don’t need plausible deniability so much”
    .
    You know we’re taking the piss here but the strawberry thing it’s all you need.
    .
    She MIGHT need PD and It gives her the option.. she can just say “yeah ok, I just need a bit of space and to talk to an oooolllllldddddd friend, and I just love strawberries, can you put the coffee on as well and I’ll be over in 10… thanks sooooo much, you are such a good friend”
    .
    Bingo, she’s got plausible deniability, you’ve got proximity and it’s all on.

  39. @Sentient
    .
    “You just put the shirt thing in the way to just getting a window…”
    .
    He’s buffering, he outright didn’t have the balls to hit her up for sex bc he’s got some personal deep seated insecurity, or there’s something else going on.
    .
    I missed it but @HABD has picked up on it.
    .
    Ref my ex wife being scared of herself I honestly can’t see the wood for the trees so if you’ve got any further insights I’d love to hear.

  40. Sentient,

    I guess no coffee for me lol…OK, I fucked up the response but did I at least get the concept of the ping right this time vs last time with this same woman? I was actually surprised how quickly she responded, so I guess I shot off the “For sure” instinctively without thinking, and then I was like Oh Fuck, what next. I’m in novice learning mode so I’m sure I’ll keep making mistakes but hopefully making some small progress with incorporating some of these concepts.

  41. serious questions…

    bc you need to get some clarity for yourself…

    I’m going to think about your questions…I’m not sure at the moment

  42. @Morpheus
    .
    The penny has probably dropped.
    .
    Even after you’ve been banging her, you still don’t really believe you’re the prize. You’re still plugged in. And qualifying yourself to her bc she’s “given” you the sex you want.
    .
    Send her a picture of a fluffy goat and she’ll tell you what a nice guy You are and “make her intentions clear” then you’ll get the sex you want without taking a risk.
    .
    This has got @Marquis written all over it.
    .
    You might as well roll on in with the bulk purchase “common courtesy” and offer to paint their garden gnomes while you’re at it.
    .
    Being 6’ and doing the work in the gym is you playing on fools mate.
    .
    So the question has been asked by @Captain Spock – what do YOU really want / want to be.
    .
    It’s all futile until you answer THAT question.

  43. So the shit testing is continual – they need to make sure they have the real deal.
    .
    So she came round after that text exchange above ^^^^ and we had one session of sex which was me pushing her. Then a break and a second session.
    .
    During the second session she stopped fucking and got off from being on top and tried to flip the power script on me by pulling the sex away and making me chase her in bed.
    .
    So I just laid back, had a drink of water and chilled, had half hour sleep etc.
    .
    After that I got up and cooked and during the cooking she was groping me and trying to escalate to sex. I played with her in the kitchen but pushed her back because I had to finish cooking.
    .
    She said “you’re not easily distracted are you”
    .
    I ignored it. Dealt with the potatoes and then played with her for a bit in the kitchen before pulling away again to serve up dinner which we ate.
    .
    I then took her back to bed after that.
    .
    Even if you get them in bed and you think it’s on your terms they’re still trying to flip it, and you can’t allow that. Sometimes you actually have to pull the P from the V to demonstrate you don’t “need” what they’ve got.

  44. @PalmaSailor

    [Nice idea but it’ll be a hard no. Every attempt to see him has been rejected for coming up to 2 years.

    you could just ignore the prior ‘not interested’ and keep playing…that way you still show an interest and his mother is the one keeping him from doing cool sh*t…

    The only one that succeeded was when I called the ex wife’s bf and told him to get my son ready as I was going to be on their doorstep in 15 minutes to collect. He was handed over on the front drive and my ex was looking through the window absolutely terrified. I have no idea why she is so absolutely terrified of me.]

    this is likely bc she was facing a possibility of son figuring out what is going on… AND you intruding into her nicely whitewashed illusion…

    also, she is trapped in a guard dog spin up with no way to resolve that… the only way she can resolve that cog dis is by morphing you (in her mind) into something between a literal hitler and something REALLY bad…lol…

    girls never own their consequences for making bad decisions, right?… who else is she going to blame?… the other possibility is that it could be your son… bc those are the only two other players in your situ… besides her…

    good luck!

  45. Morpheus

    .

    Yes the ping was good. The purpose of the ping is to establish contact from a good frame. So good enough.

    .

    Palma

    .

    Re your wife just something to consider. She is guardi g herself because you still take up too much of her headspace and she doesn’t trust herself fully with you. Especially if her husband is a schlub…

    And you are the indomitable bad ass you are..

  46. @NoNameNumber1

    IRL
    I think about commenting it somehow like
    “I wanted to do this, can’t you just eat all that is on your plate?”
    Because it’s rainy today.

    [Since the meme here is that’s because someone left some food on his plate.]

    Edit: Inserting the picture seems to not work out properly.

    You lost me there (something is lost in translation and the picture is missing).
    .
    Whatever you wanted to do there, remember you shouldn’t try to be witty.
    Think of what you’d send to your bratty little sister. Bart Simpson teasing Lisa. Whatever worked in primary school works now too.
    .
    You have a lot to digest and experiment with so let’s not overcook it and make it simple.
    For example:

    https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/funny-animals-doing-yoga-6.jpg
    “Saw you exercising lol”
    .
    Send to all girls first thing in the morning.
    .
    Wait a bit and report back. Tell us what you think is happening and what you could do next.
    .
    https://media1.tenor.com/images/f5a5793a1041a1fbb41a085ce0ed5db3/tenor.gif

  47. Morpheus

    That text string with Unique… Dude where are you flirting with her? It’s so earnest…

    But look you are succeeding to some degree off you pic. So consolidate on that. No questions!!! No !!!!! Exclamation points… Move her to the number and then set up logistics. No more best friend stuff…

    “They don’t come on the lot lest they want to buy”

    And

    “The leads are weak? The fucking leads are weak!!?? You’re weak!”

    Come on.

    Use this for practice and changing your reference experiences… Get outrageous. push these free options…

    “I always wanted to fuck a cat”… Remember that one?

    Go!

  48. here is what I sent, she responded a minute later. I’ll admit I’m confused, WTF is this about? I mean, simply ignoring me and not responding would seem to be the clearest way to send “hey, I’m not interested”. Not really sure how to follow up from here.

    You had a one minute response after months of no contact and you interpret her response a no interest? Lol.

    What did you want her to say hey let’s fuck?

    Come on. You’re confused?

    You just shut it down by not giving her anything. Seriously come up with five better responses…

    Do the work.

  49. @Jimbo
    .
    Dude. I don’t feel I’m in a position to help you. But I’ll say this.
    .
    @Palma removed the complexity (that you won’t avoid dealing with but that’s another story) and cut straight to the point: accept and take the responsibility for your life moving forward.
    .
    You may need to let yourself go through the whole process and all stages of grief before you reach acceptance. Or hear other men’s stories before you believe you can turn your own situ around (it’s one thing to be told what to do and another to see another man doing it). Fine. Whatever helps.
    .
    In the end it boils down to this though: you can either give up or get to work. That’s all there is.

    You just… begin. You solve one problem, then you solve the next one. And then the next. And if you solve enough problems, you get to come home.

    I’ll just leave these clips here in case any of them flips the right switch. Can you see a theme?

    One of the comments from the last link:

    No truer words, man. I just hit 60 this year and have spent the greater portion of my life feeling as though I have done nothing but waste time. Not anymore! Everyday the alarm goes off at 4 am. I’m out of bed. I’m going to the gym to train. I’ve enrolled in college. I AM GETTING AFTER IT.

    You may want to look for Palma Sailor’s biography on Amazon, too.

    Good luck!

  50. @Jimbo / IRL / SJF
    .
    I wrote the following longer post for Jimbo but the thing is – he just doesn’t have time. If he’s 45 now then he’s been through every hoop you can possibly go through and failed to do the one thing you have to do which is own the shit you’re in.
    .
    If he doesn’t do it now, he’ll go to the grave with it.
    .
    This is what happens with too much “sympathy” and “therapy” you wallow in shit and don’t progress.
    .
    By 45 he’s done every avoidance tactic under the sun and there’s nowhere left to hide.
    .
    That’s why he’s scared of opening the box. Because there’s fuck all in there that’s actually of any use and it forces the conclusion that it’s down to you and you’ve got to get on with it.
    .
    This was the post:
    .
    First things first – I’m more than familiar with that box and the shit that is in it that you don’t want to open and confront / youre scared that once the lid is off and the snakes come out you won’t be able to get the lid back on and hide from it.
    .
    Secondly- back in the old days no one got therapy, you just got on with it – that approach has quite a lot of merit.
    .
    I was petrified of opening that box too, and I didn’t do it until I was about 30. It was mentally messy for several years. In your case that box has been getting more and more scary for a lot longer because it hasn’t been dealt with. There’s a a very good reason what’s in the box is scary:
    .
    When you open it you’ll find that there’s nothing in the the box apart from a mirror. You’ll be looking at yourself, You’re on your own, it’s down to you.
    .
    The bottom line was that no one gave much of a shit and it was up to me to get on with it and get what I wanted from life.
    .
    I think the rule of thumb is that you need to out of it for as long as you were in it before you get over it. In my case I “got out” at 19, and visited the grave at about 38 and told her I forgave her.
    .
    You can scrap over the detail of the past all you want but it’s a simple conclusion: theres fuck all you can do about it now and raking over it is a waste of time and energy.
    .
    You won’t move on until you forgive the perpetrators of all that shit and stop blaming them for what happened to you and where you are now.
    .
    Once you’ve done that you need to look in the mirror and own yourself, that includes where you are now, where you want to be, and accepting that the responsibility of doing the work to get there lies with you.

  51. IRL

    Yes, I think I lost a lot of information during translation, sorry for that.

    Here in Germany little kids get told to eat all the food on their plate, because if they leave something (and therefore waste food) the weather will get bad.
    So the reverse conclusion is: the weather is bad because someone did not eat all on his plate.

    That was the idea behind the ping text I sent to the french one yesterday. It was just a picture of the old blue tractor an a dirt road, subtitled with “I wanted to do this today, if not little girls like you would fail eating all the food on their plate.”

    So – surprising to my plugged in, hesitating, unconscious – it seems to have worked out somehow.

    The problem of course being: I did not plan enough for the success as I did imagine some mystic/story around the ping but failed to visualize what I’m going to write to her onwards.

    So here is her response: A laughing emoji.

    So I at 10 pm was standing there, realising: damnit, how to respond now.
    After thinking for about ten minutes my only response was:
    “Look what you did there”, which by any reason killed the conversation again before even starting it – while I am not sure, if it was just the time that gave the bad answer the rest or just the overall too shitty response.

    Anyway, I will do this again today – with the french and another.

    My experience until now: As expected, it worked out, even though my blue pill self had giant doubts loaded on me. Now that it showed working out, I will go on, with the positive experience in mind and to reinforce the new Self.

    By the way, how do I insert pictures here?

  52. @Sentient:

    “The pandemic didn’t do this.”

    It seems as obvious to the author as it does to me, yet I have found I have to point it out to people, some of whom just don’t get it at all.

    There is some TDS involved in the article though. Trump has let loose some authoritarian bombast, but in practice has been scrupulous about not exceeding his authority as federal chief executive, as well as a voice against panic. He may well be a conman, but he somehow just keeps not being the evil dictator the NYT makes him out to be.

    He’s left that to the likes of Cuomo, Whitmer, Newsom, et al.

  53. @Sentient

    Yeah.. plus there’s the thing about the riot police resigning bc their union won’t insure them against claims anymore.

    Plus let out all the rioters and looters.

    That’s just gonna play out really well. But I have to say this stuff needs to happen. It’s unfortunate but you won’t clear out the sickness of the left until they’ve eaten each other. They need to do that.

  54. It’s escalating here too. Of course they slaughtered Dominic Cummings for a legal trip that he made during lockdown. But they can flaunt the same rules.

    We’ve got a bit of rain this afternoon so that usual lily clears out protests over here.

    https://i.imgur.com/HXQU9o4.png

  55. Slight difference is that Yellow vests are the people in work and paying the taxes. So those protests only happen at weekends.

    Virtually nobody of colour.

    They’re slightly right of centre. Republicans.

    So obviously that doesn’t get reported, bc they’re all bad people that must be shamed and ignored.

  56. DC mayor throws out the National Guard.
    So a new unit has been brought in and . . . sworn in as US Marshalls. So now they’re not the Guard, they’re Federal LEOs.

    The chess may not be 4D, but it’s a checking move anyway.

  57. Palma,

    Send her a picture of a fluffy goat and she’ll tell you what a nice guy You are and “make her intentions clear” then you’ll get the sex you want without taking a risk.

    TBH, I think you are on to something here as I thought about HABDs questions. I realize now I’ve often relied maybe too heavily on an almost female like strategy of Display and Wait to be pursued, and not taking the lead enough, and waiting way too much for Neon Green Lights that it is “safe” to proceed. I’ve got 2 decades to unwind here lol. That said, I’ve had a number of situations where it seems like the woman is basically giving me nothing to go on if in fact she wants “to be banged hard”. I’ve got another one that I’ll post the exchange with where I frankly don’t understand where I am “losing them”
    .
    This has got @Marquis written all over it.

    Not sure what you mean here. I don’t have a second alter ego I am posting under here. WYSIWYG.
    .
    With the goat picture, I was simply trying to test the ping thing explained here earlier by I think Sentient
    .

    Being 6’ and doing the work in the gym is you playing on fools mate.

    I don’t really get what you are saying here. TBH, I’d workout regardless of any effect or non effect on women, even if it was counterproductive to women since I enjoy it.

    Look, if I had all this figured out and had perfect execution, then I wouldn’t need to be posting here, right? And unfortunately, there isn’t some God damn switch on the wail I can just flip, and all of a sudden be doing everything exactly right at each step of a message, or in person interacton, or escalation. I’m just trying to get better…step at a time, at least I got the ping thing right this last time lol

  58. FWIW, I did text Nurse on Tuesday, and she finally replied just recently, I’ll post the entire exchange if it would be helpful, but I guess I’m inclined to think her earlier call was accidental or she simply changed her mind because this was her reply:

    “I would like to beat u leftie or rightie but probably best not to play cause not really fair to (husband name)….kind of would be uncomfortable if he was hanging out with someone he dated…hopefully business is picking up and all is going good (smiley face)”

    I mean, if she really wanted to fuck, wouldn’t she go along with the pretext of getting together to play tennis, right? That would give her excuse to see me in person and let something “just happen”?

    I am trying to set up meet with Bumble chick for drinks, will update on how that goes later.

  59. Morpheus

    “I would like to beat u leftie or rightie but probably best not to play cause not really fair to (husband name)….kind of would be uncomfortable if he was hanging out with someone he dated…hopefully business is picking up and all is going good (smiley face)”

    .

    I mean, if she really wanted to fuck, wouldn’t she go along with the pretext of getting together to play tennis, right?

    That’s not a hard no. That’s a “hey I’m not taking any responsibility here if something happens I told you about my husband” kind of thing.

    I bet if you texted something back like “sounds like you are scared to take a whipping… Lol. I play on Saturdays at 11″ or ” slow your roll tiger it’s just a game of tennis. He let you out of the house lol?” etc. She would join…

    But you are probably beat off just leaving this be and plowing other fields for now.

  60. Morpheus

    I realize now I’ve often relied maybe too heavily on an almost female like strategy of Display and Wait to be pursued, and not taking the lead enough, and waiting way too much for Neon Green Lights that it is “safe” to proceed.

    Good. Finally!!!

    And hey I been there and done that… The root however is you are still firmly firmly rooted solidly to dog logic…

    You won’t progress far until you start learning to understand cat.

    Great line from from Jack

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0g9_wfkYjfo

  61. @Morpheus
    .
    Did you even read my previous comment:
    .
    https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-154/#comment-290496
    .
    What EXACTLY do you think I meant when I said this:
    .
    “In fact she doesn’t even know it consciously bc you haven’t bought THAT out in her. And that’s YOUR job Charlie Brown.”
    .
    You come back with this:
    .
    “That said, I’ve had a number of situations where it seems like the woman is basically giving me nothing to go on if in fact she wants “to be banged hard”.”
    .
    I’m losing the plot here. Don’t you really not get it? You have to OWN the escalation and here you are expecting her to take the lead? Wake the fuck up, she’s a fucking cat and cats don’t lead at fuck all.
    .
    “I mean, if she really wanted to fuck, wouldn’t she go along with the pretext of getting together to play tennis, right?”
    .
    No. She texted you at midnight bc her hindbrain really wanted to fuck, but it’s her other brain that’s doing the talking and THAT brain couldn’t admit to it so it’s your job to make that happen. She didn’t want to play fucking tennis. And here are you saying “oh perhaps if I take my shirt off she’ll make a move”.
    .
    Repeat after me “I own the interaction”
    .
    Do you really think she was ping texting you at midnight to play fucking tennis? Jeez…
    .
    Are you even thinking what you’re doing here?
    .
    For instance what are the logistics like from the tennis place to your place?
    .
    Explain to me what would be your process to make that move from the tennis club to your place? How would you actually get her from the tennis club to your place? I bet you don’t have a plan for that.
    .
    I’ll guarantee if we look at the precise interactions where you actually get laid it’s them escalating on you and not the other way around.
    .
    Your MPoO is completely upside down and that’s your problem.

  62. @NoNameNumber1
    By the way, how do I insert pictures here?
    .
    If the image you want to insert is on the internet, just paste the link to it in the comment.
    If it’s not, you need to upload it first (e.g. imgur) and then link.
    .
    Progress update?

  63. Yup, so I went on with the French one, sent her a pictur of a place nearby (really nice, my own picture), commented by “See, now I had to do my trip by car”

    Her: “How tragic”
    Me: “Hello, we all have to reduce CO2”
    Her: “With a tractor? You better walk then [emoji of woman holding up her hands]”
    Me: “Bike’s enough [blinky smiley]”

    Jup, now I wonder if and what I’m going to send her, since the last two days it did not go perfect on the one hand, on the other I advanced it seriously.

    Probably try it at least on another girl. Also have a picture of a tasty cake from yesterday, maybe gonna send that to another one.

    Thank you for your support, would never have had the balls for this alone.

  64. @NoNameNumber1
    .
    “Thank you for your support, would never have had the balls for this alone.”
    .
    You don’t need balls if you’ve got options. It’s only the lack of perceived options causing you to overvalue this transaction and therefore consider you need balls to work it right.

  65. You’re right Palma

    what do you think about the cake commented with “I just produced the best cake in the world. I think I’m gonna open a confectionary”

    Is that acceptable, to the french who knows the system now, and to another one, as a “first” ping there?

  66. @NoNameNumber1
    .
    I’m staying out of comments on that bc I’m 52 years old and text game isn’t my thing.
    .
    It’s better that @IRL should answer that.
    .
    Something like you saying you need “balls” however is something that transcends all that and I can step in and just put a bullet in that mindset.
    .
    What you need is masses of time in the field and a lot of women to interact with.
    .
    “Confidence” comes from an a abundance of options which leads you to “not giving a fuck”
    .
    This comes across in your non verbal cues. Basically you don’t try to hard. This leads women to “pick up” you have options and are therefore desirable.
    .
    They have a radar. Last week a woman I recently picked up came over and we spent the afternoon in bed. Afterwards she commented that “the room smelt of sex” and she was right it did. However, I would not have noticed it, but it was obvious to her and she said it.
    .
    Cats are not dogs.

  67. @NoNameNumber1
    .
    Props on putting in the work.
    .
    Yup, so I went on with the French one, sent her a pictur of a place nearby (really nice, my own picture), commented by “See, now I had to do my trip by car”
    Her: “How tragic”

    .
    What’s your gut telling you is happening here? What and why is she communicating?
    .
    Me: “Hello, we all have to reduce CO2”
    Her: “With a tractor? You better walk then [emoji of woman holding up her hands]”

    .
    Again, what’s happening here?
    .
    Me: “Bike’s enough [blinky smiley]”
    .
    What did you expect to achieve with this response?
    .
    Overall, given you haven’t texted girls before, this is a decent starting point. You didn’t qualify yourself to her and you didn’t fall into her traps, so I’d take it for a win. She gave you something to work with too (BTW how did you get her number? and what’s the history of your interactions with her?). You could have challenged her and made fun of her in a playful way a bit more. But it was a good warm up for you. Hopefully, it’s made you notice your gaps in understanding and your sticking points to work on. All good.
    .
    Where are you with Magic Bullets?
    .
    what do you think about the cake commented with “I just produced the best cake in the world. I think I’m gonna open a confectionary”
    .
    It’s good. Even better if it’s coming from the place of self-amusement.
    What do you think you’re communicating though?
    What reaction do you expect to get?
    And how are you going to play it to move the interaction forward? Girls won’t do it for you. It’s on you.
    .
    Is that acceptable, to the french who knows the system now, and to another one, as a “first” ping there?
    .
    Why not. But roll off of the French for several days to not look needy and shift your focus to other girls. Keep practicing.
    .
    You ignored my advice to try it with all your female contacts. Why is that?

  68. IRL
    you trapped me, my blue pill self still hesitates.
    I have her number since she was just part of my class.

    That may be part of why I hesitate on pinging other ones, feering the response when they see me pinging their friends as well. Yet I still think it might make no difference.
    So I’m gonna roll off for maybe five days and chat again with her.

    So tomorrow I’ll start with further ones.

  69. @NoNameNumber1
    .
    “you trapped me, my blue pill self still hesitates.”
    .
    He wasn’t actually trying to trap you but well done for acknowledging.
    .
    “That may be part of why I hesitate on pinging other ones, feering the response when they see me pinging their friends as well.”
    .
    You say that, and societal conditioning tells you to: “be the good guy etc… and a good guy would NEVER lead a girl on, never mind lead on TWO girls, right?” but then you go on to say this:
    .
    “Yet I still think it might make no difference.”
    .
    So deep in your gut you know the answer.
    .
    So when you do ping them all at once and they lose their shit and call you an arsehole how do you think you should react?
    .
    “So I’m gonna roll off for maybe five days and chat again with her.”
    .
    Good. You could also consider rolling off completely and just hit on loads and loads more women right under her nose?
    .
    “So tomorrow I’ll start with further ones.”
    .
    Why tomorrow?

  70. habd to palmasailor

    girls never own their consequences for making bad decisions, right?… who else is she going to blame?

    Possibly she could blame her new boy toy. “Why don’t you DO something!?” would be one way to start the party. This may come up in her Rolodex sometime in the next year or two.

    I@Palma

    IMO it’s important you keep some sort of line of comm open with him, because at some point he’s going to leave her house.

    One of my frivorced friends wound up after a couple of years with his son sharing quarters, the ex had gotten beyond endurance. That was possible because of a father – son commline, even though it sometimes was months between contact. Stay in touch with him, that’s my suggestion.

  71. NoNameNumber1
    As expected, it worked out, even though my blue pill self had giant doubts loaded on me. Now that it showed working out, I will go on, with the positive experience in mind and to reinforce the new Self.

    Many men have had the same experience: “What? This stuff works!” and it is a good feeling.

    Now you know that Game works whether you believe in it or not. That is the empirical reality; you are dealing with the female hindbrain / unconscious / Id / whatever. It’s the hardwiring of thousands of years. It’s not fakery, it’s there.

    However you cannot hesitate or falter on followthrough. Each positive experience should become a new Reference Experience for you, as you discard the old falsehoods that were washed into your brain years ago.

  72. @HABD
    .
    “you could just ignore the prior ‘not interested’ and keep playing…that way you still show an interest and his mother is the one keeping him from doing cool sh*t…”
    .
    You’re right. And I’ve been looking back at the cool shit we used to do and think I should still offer to keep doing stuff, which he’ll have to ask her permission to do and she’ll reject. She’ll reject everything so it’s got to get to a point where he gets pissed off with that.
    .
    I don’t own any of these toys, but because I’ve done loads of odd things over the years and I’ve always honoured everything on a business front these people are enduring friends so I’ve had and still do have access to most of this stuff if I want to go play with it. First visit to the Nurburgring a few years back:
    .

    https://i.imgur.com/buQfAWv.jpg
    .
    Could take him racing in this if I asked:
    .
    https://i.imgur.com/tBUW0J7.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/2zrXAe3.mp4
    .
    Then there’s the social side rmto what our life was like – Two women we hit on in a bar when he was 14/15 and we spent the afternoon hanging out with.
    .
    https://i.imgur.com/01JKLR8.jpg
    .
    Me with 3 moar women that he hit on by throwing ice cubes into their tits while we were sat around the pool. They then invited us to join them that night which we did.
    .
    https://i.imgur.com/FZAIaje.jpg
    .
    Then sailing.
    .
    https://i.imgur.com/Pu6lHNR.jpg
    .
    He was perfectly rounded, confident and could hold a conversation and flirt with a group of adult women.
    .
    Now he’s scared to take a piss.
    .
    We could go and do all that cool shit all over again.
    .

    @Sentient
    .
    “Re your wife just something to consider. She is guardi g herself because you still take up too much of her headspace and she doesn’t trust herself fully with you. Especially if her husband is a schlub…
    And you are the indomitable bad ass you are..”
    .
    He is a schlub. She admitted to me she didn’t love him B4 she even moved in with him.
    .
    I wonder if his mother is just petrified that the two of us could just end up actually having some fun. Piss off sailing round the Med and hitting on women. If we did THAT it’s almost certain he’d never want to go back to her. 🤷‍♂️
    .
    @Anonymous Reader
    .
    Thanks. The lines are open and since lockdown he replies to texts and picks up the phone if I call him.

  73. @Anonymous Reader
    .
    Thanks – the communication is open. Theres one post in Moderation probably bc of links.
    .
    We used to do some really cool stuff even just a couple of years back, and she will be just intolerable and overbearing and micro controlling. So its just how that ends up playing out.

  74. @HABD
    .
    “you could just ignore the prior ‘not interested’ and keep playing…that way you still show an interest and his mother is the one keeping him from doing cool sh*t…”
    .
    You’re right. And I’ve been looking back at the cool shit we used to do and think I should still offer to keep doing stuff, which he’ll have to ask her permission to do and she’ll reject. She’ll reject everything so it’s got to get to a point where he gets pissed off with that.
    .
    We could do loads of cool things.
    .
    Then there’s the social side of what our life was like – Two women we hit on in a bar when he was 14/15 and we spent the afternoon hanging out with.
    .
    https://i.imgur.com/01JKLR8.jpg
    .
    Me with 3 moar women that he hit on by throwing ice cubes into their tits while we were sat around the pool. They then invited us to join them that night which we did.
    .
    https://i.imgur.com/FZAIaje.jpg
    .
    He was perfectly rounded, confident and could hold a conversation and flirt with a group of adult women.
    .
    Now he’s scared to take a piss.
    .
    We could go and do all that cool shit all over again.
    .

    @Sentient
    .
    “Re your wife just something to consider. She is guardi g herself because you still take up too much of her headspace and she doesn’t trust herself fully with you. Especially if her husband is a schlub…
    And you are the indomitable bad ass you are..”
    .
    He is a schlub. She admitted to me she didn’t love him B4 she even moved in with him.
    .
    I wonder if his mother is just petrified that the two of us could just end up actually having some fun. Piss off sailing round the Med and hitting on women. If we did THAT it’s almost certain he’d never want to go back to her. 🤷‍♂️
    .
    @Anonymous Reader
    .
    Thanks. The lines are open and since lockdown he replies to texts and picks up the phone if I call him.

  75. Palma

    That one chick is a pig…

    .

    I wonder if his mother is just petrified that the two of us could just end up actually having some fun. Piss off sailing round the Med and hitting on women.

    The existential fear is being left all alone. Now the fact that most mom’s create those exact conditions is just a bit of irony.

  76. @Sentient
    .
    “That one chick is a pig…”
    .
    Alfie said “dad, look, that’s something you don’t see every day – a unicorn and a pig sat at a bar”.
    .
    (The “something you don’t see everyday” line was one he came up with when he was very young – a situation arose where a toy giraffe was on a skateboard – and he said “a giraffe on a skateboard – that’s something you don’t see everyday..” I thought it was very true and over the years I’ve re programmed it back into his Rolodex when something odd crops up. So now it’s natural he says it when faced with something like a unicorn and a pig sat at an outside bar)
    .
    I said “go and ask her if she’s really a unicorn” – I didn’t think asking the other one if she was really a pig had quite the same vibe… Though thinking about it now, a 15 year old could probably have pulled it off in a way I couldn’t.
    .
    So he rolls up and says “Are you really a Unicorn?”..aaaand we were in. It was a fun couple of hours sat next to them talking.
    .
    So of course I got stuck with the pig.. 🤷‍♂️
    .
    .
    On the women’s existential fear thing, depending on the social set you are in I think it’s the literal truth that they’re gonna have to settle on any man whatsoever or end up alone.
    .
    If, like me you hang out with older men who have been through the wringer, a lot are just MGTOW (without knowing it) and for others it’s a hard no as far as any woman much over 50 is concerned. It’s a definite hard no for “commitment”.
    .
    Most men don’t believe they can get younger, and everything else they look at – they just don’t want to know.
    .
    Women remember the power they used to have and are very aware it’s gone.

  77. @wahoo

    Yesterday I hit him up for a couple of trips we could do.
    .
    The Nurburgring is in Germany, you can take your domestic car on a race track and go for it. Other option was to go down to the end island we used to hang out on which he used to love.
    .
    See the response and timings.
    .
    https://imgur.com/a/LiCikDM

  78. @PalmaSailor

    @HABD
    .
    “you could just ignore the prior ‘not interested’ and keep playing…that way you still show an interest and his mother is the one keeping him from doing cool sht…”
    .
    You’re right. And I’ve been looking back at the cool shit we used to do and think I should still offer to keep doing stuff, which he’ll have to ask her permission to do and she’ll reject. She’ll reject everything so it’s got to get to a point where he gets pissed off with that.

    .
    yep… that’s the general idea…lol… at some point, he won’t be able to ignore her unreasonableness anymore…
    .
    and just to point out, the ‘cool sht’ doesn’t always have to be new and original… you can recycle those offers… bc they are still cool… and you didn’t get to do them last time… just a nice steady… drip… drip… of those offers…

    a bonus is that it will be like a water torture to your ex…lol… so vary the timing of the offers… and at some point, he will get fed up with the refusals and will blame her… or she will react so negatively that he will not ask her any more bc she will be going off on him…

    so, pay attention to his responses so you can figure out what is happening…

    @wahoo

    Yesterday I hit him up for a couple of trips we could do.
    .
    The Nurburgring is in Germany, you can take your domestic car on a race track and go for it. Other option was to go down to the end island we used to hang out on which he used to love.
    .
    See the response and timings.
    .
    https://imgur.com/a/LiCikDM

    so, is that his usual response time/answer?… or did he have a fight with mom about it and get overruled?…

    and that was a nice polite way for him to decline… much better than ‘p*ss off’, eh?…lol… seems like you are winning…

    and if you wanted to push back a little… you could innocently ask him ‘doesn’t that sound fun?’… and see what happens… and at least get another data point…

    cap’n spock out!…lol

    good luck!

  79. Palma

    See the response and timings

    eh… don’t get too down. My son is in my house and from time to time he will say no to going to do things he loves to do. Lazy ass teenage boys sometimes…

    But next step might be to go and do those things and send him some clips of you having fun in situ… for next time.

  80. from time to time he will say no to going to do things he loves to do.

    And this is true for things with his friends and among his friends they all act like this to a degree. The generation is far far less social. Part of it is I think the numbing effect of being connected 24/7…

    You can see it once you actually get them out.

  81. @HABD
    .
    “so, is that his usual response time/answer?… or did he have a fight with mom about it and get overruled?…”
    .
    I’d have to start a spreadsheet to answer that with the type of pedantic thoroughness the subject deserves – which perhaps I should do. But since lockdown any reply is usually faster. Usually within minutes.
    .
    The jury is out. Any number of options.
    .
    1. The delay could be him genuinely not wanting to go and being scared of my reaction because he’s saying no to me and he’s therefore putting off rejecting me. He rejected me on about the 100th time I suggested something a few months ago. It was on the basis of something incredibly lame which would have insulted the intelligence of any normal person, literally this:
    .
    I would go for an ice cream with you for 10 minutes but I need to revise. I’m revising for literally 400 hours a day and so I simply don’t have 10 minutes free. That ten minutes is the difference between life and death and I just can’t spare that much time out of my very packed curriculum.
    .
    I told him he might believe I swallowed all that shit but I didn’t, and if he didn’t want to see me then he should just grow some balls and tell me to fuck off.
    .
    There was a substantial delay while he processed, I pushed it, and he told me to fuck off. Might have been unfair bc his mother leverages any “moral” excuse to the limit. Absolutely anything is more important than him seeing me. But never mind. I had decided he needed to own “his” decision to reject seeing me and make whatever analysis from that he should.
    .
    Or
    .
    2. He’s waiting until the right time to ask his mother, ie she’s in the “right mood” and he might get a yes, or worst case she won’t blow up in his face too badly for even having the temerity to ask.
    .
    Or
    .
    3. He asks her straight away and she says “she’ll think about it” or gives him the “I’ll say you can but you know I’ll be pissed off if you do” reply, and he has to work out what to do with that.
    .
    I’d like to think it isn’t 1, and it is actually 2. I doubt it’s 3.
    .
    If the truth is that he really does want to see me but can’t even say it bc she just blows up nuclear then I need to just turn up on the doorstep again. The last time I did that she hid in the house, the new “man” came out to tell me he “didn’t want any trouble” and also “not to blow it with my son”. He narrowly escaped “trouble” by saying that, but it wasn’t going to get me anywhere.

  82. @Sentient
    .
    “Lazy ass teenage boys sometimes…
    But next step might be to go and do those things and send him some clips of you having fun in situ… for next time.”
    .
    Well. Almost every time we got together we hit on women and he won’t be doing that with anyone else.
    .
    If you remember rightly his best friend is the hot waitress that thinks I’m cool. So I totally intend continue living and sending him pictures. He’ll share them with her and she’ll want to come do the cool stuff… so we’ll see how that plays out.

  83. Palma, my folks split the sheets when I was 7, she bad mouthed him at every turn. He made it known that he loved us in his way. Of us kids I was the one he took to the races and to work ,he had me driving a truck at 10. At 17 I looked him up for a job , got a company truck, weekly salary and a room we had a sort of bachelor pad, I brought girls there ,he went out for his.

    Dad never said much but one time he said “your mom is crazy”. After reading Rollos work I know she isn’t crazy just living out her circumstances.

    I don’t have any advice for you , just don’t forget how to read people and leave the door open and never leave without A “love you son”.

  84. Palma , you are welcome and thank you as well for the insight. Pops died last year ( his 3rd wife finally talked him to ” death by annoyance” ) and due to circumstances I still don’t have closure. I may write some more about him as it is relevant if you guys don’t mind.

  85. @Wahoo
    .
    I don’t know what insight I managed to give you but you’re welcome.
    .
    Feel free to spit any shit out you want to. Doing that can often clear an awful lot down!

  86. @HABD / Sentient / Wahoo
    .
    So I’ve analysed the timings between the texts.
    .
    As a general rule chit chat goes well and replies are within the hour. Often they turn into a “rally” where messages go to and fro in real time.
    .
    The exception to this rule is where I suggest a meet. Every time I do this there is at least a six hour delay before he comes back to me and it’s always with a rejection EXCEPT for his birthday. That approval took 9 hours – see below link.
    .
    I nearly got to see him and go out with him on his birthday but lockdown scuppered that. The birthday came with strict guidelines – how and where he should be collected and he can’t be out for long etc..
    .
    As you can see the extent of it was “an hour for coffee” whoop de fucking doo… lets push the boat out.
    .
    I think his mother was stumped at refusing birthday access. Even she realised that this would just be her being an utter bitch. Even then – I suspect it was her behind it reluctantly releasing the reins for a whole fucking hour for COFFEE bc DONT YOU DARE Even think about doing anything fun.
    .
    Then Covid saved the day for her bc she has something external she could blame.
    .
    The first text is the birthday approval – and the second one was when I turned up on the doorstep.
    .
    https://imgur.com/a/u6qMVUR
    .

  87. @Palma

    I’m not a father yet, but I am a son. My parents never divorced, but they were fighting all the time. Like yelling each and every day. And my mom always complained about him to me, how useless and lazy he is. He never talked about it (to me anyway). I grew up resenting him for not doing enough.

    It took me a couple of years after I’ve got out the house to realize that he was doing what he could, his only “sin” was not being red pilled, and not “getting it”.

    What I want to say is that keep on, because what you do will pay out on the long term regarding the relationship with your son. But it may be still a couple of years. As long as he lives under the same roof as your ex (and thus is getting the info 24/7 how evil you are), things will be the same. But he will not live there forever.

  88. Palma,

    I’m not sure I have any good advice on the situation with your son, but I wanted to say good luck and I hope you can get the situation fixed. It’s not clear to me from the comments I’ve read how old he is, and if he is financially dependent on Mom at the moment. If he is dependent on her, he may be making decisions based on his pragmatic self-interest, especially if she is the type to make her help conditional.

    To be perfectly honest, and I don’t want to get into too many details, but I’ve been in the position where I have to choose between Mom and Dad in various ways and circumstances, and often it comes down to the fact that I know when the shit hits the fan, I can count on Mom to have my back in any way necessary no matter what, not so much for Dad, so my allegiance goes to her…just being honest.

  89. Throwing this up for any comments or feedback…this is the Bumble chick referenced in the recent above comments. TBH, not really sure here…seems like high probability of a flake, and frankly I’ve considered flaking myself…I was kind of put off by the whole “Hey who is this” nonsense and “New phone” BS given that only a few days had passed between our original Sunday plans, and my ping text on Wednesday. Hopefully, I got that part at least right…I tried to give a smart ass answer to her question (referencing our Bumble discussion about action movies).
     
     
    https://imgur.com/a/laDXbZz
     
     

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