Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

15,464 comments on “Field Reports

  1. Dr. Zipper

    The linked article is titled:

    This Philosopher Is Challenging All of Evolutionary Psychology

    So she is a philosopher. Her research interests are:

    Epistemology, Ethics, Metaphilosophy, Philosophy, Philosophy of biology, Philosophy of evolutionary explanation, Philosophy of Science

    She’s not giving scientific answers (What is–definite knowledge)and she is not providing theological guidance (what ought to be done–dogma). She’s in no man’s land in between the two.

    That’s what philosophers do for a living. (And, more akin to a social justice warrier–you can tell by her interview that she has an agenda. And so does everybody else that uses Evo-Psych for story telling). Picking what philosophically is meant to be ideal for her philosophical model of how some should proceed.

    That is what she is doing here: trying to tell evo-psych (which some use as a theoretical tool) how to proceed based on her notions. That’s what philosophers do. Flap their gums/type on their keyboard and try to get others to agree for the sake of making sense out of human’s role in this world. And she is doing it solipsistically. She is trying to change how others think.

    There is also, however, a more personal answer. Science tells us what we can know, but what we can know is little, and if we forget how much we cannot know we become insensitive to many things of very great importance. Theology, on the other hand, induces a dogmatic belief that we have knowledge where in fact we have ignorance, and by doing so generates a kind of impertinent insolence towards the universe. Uncertainty, in the presence of vivid hopes and fears, is painful, but must be endured if we wish to live without the support of comforting fairy tales. It is not good either to forget the questions that philosophy asks, or to persuade ourselves that we have found indubitable answers to them. To teach how to live without certainty, and yet without being paralyzed by hesitation, is perhaps the chief thing that philosophy, in our age, can still do for those who study it. –Bertrand Russell in the introduction to The History of Western Philosophy.

  2. Gents, just a snapshot from an app convo that I would be interested in getting some feedback on. Been using the app as Sentient suggested, just trying all sorts of different openers and in this one its borrowed and tweaked from that Vadim vid that was posted. This is a very attractive mixed race woman, 31. It goes like this:

    (her profile states ‘on here till quarantine is over’)

    Me: Till quarantine is over? Gonna be here a fucking while cupcake lol. I’m starting a covid free cult for beautiful people – you are invited to join
    09:45 Her: Don’t break my heart 💔, Asappleeze! My glass is half full! Cult huh? Hmmm… tell me more 🤔🤭
    14:59 Me: I’m afraid our secrets are disclosed only to those that have proved themselves worthy – the inner sanctum, if you will. lets fill that glass up though hey
    21:32 Me: Nothing better than a full glass…
    21:32 Me: What does one need to do to be initiated?

    So my questions are as follows. She appears to have bought into the sexualization and responded favourably – ‘nothing better than a full glass…’ And whilst it is a fantasy scenario she is qualifying to me ‘what does one need to do to be initiated.’ but whether face to face, or on the app, i don’t know whether to double down on the sexualization, as it has come really swiftly, or to carry on the fantasy scenario, as it is could end up being a brief source of entertainment for her and fizzling out. any thoughts? Or perhaps neither, hence my question.

  3. ASAP

    *, i don’t know whether to double down on the sexualization, as it has come really swiftly,*

    No. Don’t take the bait.

    What’s your goal here…?

    To have a sexual convo on the app or get her to come out?

  4. Had to do in two parts… Gerrrr.

    The play is to not rush in but to pull the string away…

    “Whoa whoa slow your roll. Not sure I can trust you yet with these great secrets. Tell me a secret about you”

    Then qualify her a few times, continue the cocky funny, probe logistics and then pitch a meet… To start her initiation.

    Play the game.

    How is reading MM going?

    1. @Sentient

      Thanks for the feedback. I am about half way through MM. Had put it to one side for a bit, but got stuck into it again today once I was stumped by a couple of situations.

      I hear what you say and will implement, no doubt from your pointed reminder about MM this stuff will be more self evident to me once I have finished the book.

      Having had a moan about apps, got a lot of replies today having sent out a load of openers tailored where possible to the bio of the girl (kind of online situational relevance??).

      Had some progress with the hungarian aussie and norwegian. was on the phone today to the aussie, meeting monday. the hungarian one has got a bit strange, but i tried to apply what you said about ‘understanding’ in terms of her need to play away (whereas I had laughed when she told me she was married after the first bang if you recall). the norwegian is sulking and 100% setting apology traps like you said she would – did so straight away in fact. will post full text strings for diagnosis and then take up the baton again. no rush

      Cheers again for the feedback

  5. ASAP

    70% of game is “don’t do what is expected, when it is expected”

    That’s a good quick reference when you are live firing and are thinking “uhhhh. What next”.

  6. Asap

    Cool.

    This is the right use of apps. When you can’t do anything live and are just practicing. When they aren’t buffers and aren’t going to be your main way of getting girls.

    Sounds like you are in line to banging all three of the … girls if you play it right. And maybe this online one.

    Have fun.

  7. ASAP

    Sorry.. key point. Move her off the app to text. Get her number as the first major compliance test. When you feel you have enough attraction.

    Then pick up via text.

    Then pitch the meet when you feel you have that attraction going.

    Similar to bouncing her to venues irl

  8. Brief update, still working on SOD while quarantine is in effect, and I’m just kind of experimenting and playing around. Right now, the main ones I am on are Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, and CMB. Just the other day, got my youngest match so far that isn’t a SB (lots of them on Tinder and even Bumble) which is a 29 year old off CMB. I’ll try to post that exchange later for any feedback. She lives quite a distance, about an hour and a half, so I didn’t even bring up yet any kind of meet. Sentient, I’m going to take your advice above and try to get her off the app and onto text as a compliance test.

    I’ve been playing around with the “…” ping on conversations where I haven’t gotten a response for a few days, and if no response I immediately unmatch them. Interestingly, a decent percentage of time it gets a pretty quick response which surprised me, maybe around 25-40% of the time. Kinda funny, it did get me a quick unmatch on a fairly attractive redhead off Hinge. I wanted to post that exchange but it is gone since she unmatched me.

    Anyhow, who knows how long this will last. I was actually eager to start trying to meet and do approaches in real life especially night game and bar game which is basically where most of my previous success came from (never daygame in innocuous places like grocery stores, walking down the street, etc.).

    Question, and again I’m just EXPERIMENTING here so I don’t really care other than trying to establish what “works” and what doesn’t. How long is too long to send out one of these “ping” texts just to see what a response is. I’ve got a few I was thinking of just sending a text for shits and giggles, but I’m wondering if after a certain amount of time, any text, no matter how worded is automatically a DLV. On the other hand, worst case is she tells me to fuck off which is no different from the woman not being a part of my life in anyways presently anyways.

    I have one from the November time frame that really surprised me, maybe I’ll post the text exchanges to see where I went off the rails with her. She was kind of chunky, but pretty face, and I really thought she wanted to fuck. Date 1 ended in makeout session, at one point in text exchange completely unsolicited she remarked what a “great kisser” I was,and I really thought I’d be fucking her on date 2. Date 2 ended exactly the same with no forward progress beyond making out again, and I was thinking fuck this shit. Anyways, it went cold after that. I think Palma you had a comment that resonated with me, maybe I triggered her ASD, and without logistics in place for date 2, she didn’t want to commit to a date 3 knowing I expected sex?

    I’ve also been thinking about pinging the woman who asked me “why I am an Uber driver” again just to see if she responds and how. I just want to experiment here with different things while I wait for the world to reopen.

    As a side point, a few comments I’ve read recently along with some blogs I follow Red Pill Dad and the Red Quest only confirm for me what I’ve started to long suspect which is that SOD is basically a terrible venue for guys to actually get real life meets that lead to sex. The success rates are abysmal across the board. Strangely, I actually found this reassuring, because I’m pretty confident that my online experience has zero predictive effect on what I am going to experience out at bars once they reopen, but we shall see.

  9. Morpheus

    Good on you putting theory I to practice.

    The purpose of a ping text is to resurrect old contacts. So there is no “too long”.

    Now how things ended will have some impact and only you can speak to and PREPARE for that…

    You can also use images as pings.

    A typical use of pings. – Thursday night you want to go out. You ping 10 old numbers and then work the ones who respond. Highly recommend the Yareally archive on this stuff.

  10. Good on you putting theory I to practice.

    The purpose of a ping text is to resurrect old contacts. So there is no “too long”.

    Yup, I’m trying…I figure I’ve got a lot of room for improvement here but I got to just experiment.

    OK, so I decided to text city girl that was the movie on date 2 lol. Last contact with her had been March 13 before EVERYTHING got locked down in this part of the U.S.. I figured what do I have to lose? Nothing, lol

    FWIW, this woman was super into yoga.

    So I texted her this about 45 minutes ago:

    “Hi! How’s things with you, must be weird in the city with this shutdown. Doing yoga at home?” Maybe not the best “ping” text but since 8 weeks had gone by I figured some type of “Hey” text was the way to go.

    She responds 10 min later with a few pics, and the sentence “In City, State” Talk later

    Now here’s the thing, I realize 99.5% this is just bullshit, and I’ll probably never hear from her again. But…she could have just blown me off entirely and simply not responded AT ALL, and my mind thought of this Tinder lay report I read on Red Pill Dad, maybe her response is some kind of test for me

    https://redpilldad.blog/2020/01/07/field-report-1st-date-sex-party-w-a-girl-from-tinder/

    “So among other things we talked about while getting drinks, Double Take mentions she normally would not meet up this quickly. Typically, she says, she ghosts guys for awhile or flakes on a date purposely to see how he’ll react (hilarious, because the other girls I’ve matched with on Tinder are doing THIS EXACT FUCKING DANCE).

    I was somewhat taken aback because usually girls don’t explicitly shit test guys–it’s subconscious–or at least, if they do, they don’t tell us about it. Very interesting to hear that this was how she operates and reminds me of a mantra of mine, which is that it’s always best to play it cool and leave things open. Because it could be she is interested–she’s just shit testing you.”

    So what’s the move now? Just say fuck it, and see if she does in fact hit me up at some point (Crazy Paralegal messaged me months after no contact although I’m still uncertain exactly what she wants out of me). I don’t want to come across as chasing or needy at this point, right? In any case, I’m glad I texted her, this is something I wouldn’t normally do so it is out of my “comfort zone”…I’m thinking this is something I really need to work on, doing things I normally wouldn’t do with a who gives a fuck attitude, I think one issue I’ve had is getting too much of my ego invested in how any one interaction goes so I am trying to dissassociate my ego, and view this more as a numbers game and like the lay report from Red Pill Dad above, it might just depend on the “mood” of the chick at that moment in time.

  11. OK, next one, matched with “Married, Ethically Polygamous” woman on both Hinge and Bumble a few weeks ago. I’ll try to summarize as briefly as possible…I think I am on the fence here with the potential to fuck this chick, but to also fuck this up as well, and I think I need some feedback on what next. So her profile says “weirdly attracted to chest hair and nice hands”.

    The Hinge match occurred first (we matched again on Bumble a few days later) where either person can message first, she messaged me first:

    “Happy Quarantine”

    Me “Haha. I’m hoping it ends very soon, miss my gym workouts. So chest hair, huh? I actually shave mine off, but I think I have good hands ”

    Me “So…married and polyamorous”? How does that work, I’m curious? Blah, blah

    “I’m looking to go with the flow and see what forms organically. That being said, an ongoing friends with benefits type of situation with the occasional date would be nice”

    Me “Go with the flow is a good life philosophy IMO…I have to say though I’m not growing my chest hair lol if that is a deal breaker

    “Hahaha”

    “Not a deal breaker!”

    Lots of chit chat BSing over a couple of day ending on May 8. I decide to restart the convo with her yesterday very late at night around midnight, she messages early this afternoon and ALSO messages me right away on Bumble too because she says she thinks there is a lag on Hinge…my interpretation she wants to make sure I see that she is messaging me…she is enthusiastic and eager???

    Chit chat about what she is doing, bird watching, grocery shopping, blah, blah, and we start talking liquor and drinks, and she mentions her favorite bar and some drinks she makes

    Me “Awesome, too bad they are shutdown, we could meet there, maybe there is an alternative? I really want to sample that combination. I’m ready to drink now.

    OK, so now Sentient, I think of what you said above about “bouncing” to text, and I’m thinking this constitutes compliance test as well??? And I figure I make a statement, NOT ask a question which is not typical of me but I’m understanding asking permission is DLV???

    Me “Let’s move our chat to text. What’s your number”

    She gives me her number IMMEDIATELY

    OK, I move convo to text now, I’m thinking of her profile statement about hands and chest, and on Hinge you cannot send pictures

    Me “Can’t send pics on Hinge but I can here so I think I need a hand assessment lol”

    “Hahahah”

    I send her picture of my hand and about half my forearm

    Me “Not sure if it is “nice” lol

    Her “Yes!”

    Talk about me playing basketball, the sports she played, blah, blah, blah, she likes tennis, blah, blah…then there is about a 10-15 minute gap and she messages first

    Her “What are you up to”…..I kind of wondered if this was her fishing if I was free today???

    Me “Actually getting ready to go on grocery store “mission” myself lol, I’m thinking about drinks now haha, you’ve planted that in my mind haha”…..earlier she mentioned she was going on a grocery store mission for coffee and toilet paper

    Me “Fair is fair, I think I need a hand pic too ” my thought here is this is another compliance test??? See if she goes along with my request with no objection

    She sends me hand pic and face shot too, I figure I’ll keep the pic stuff rolling and I send her a shirtless pic from mid March right before gyms closed

    Me “Before gym shutdown…No hair on chest

    Her “Very sexy!”

    I make joke that belly has grown about 10 pounds, but I can still move really well

    Her: Hahahah

    Me: “I think I need to sample your drink creations sometime, after some bird watching”…..she had mentioned earlier she was bird watching and was bragging on a drink she made, I was trying to imply coming over to her place (which is actually pretty far about an hour a way)

    That was it for now which ended a few hours ago. I’m sure I fucked up a little here and there, but I think I at least got right trying to do some of these compliance tests within the convo. She had mentioned the hand and chest thing in her profile so I thought sending the pics was the right move, I know once before I think a comment might have implied the pic sending was negative but i don’t know. Frankly, I know my Game needs a Ton of work, but the truth of the matter is for a 46 year old man, my body, physical attributes, and youthful appearance are my Ace in the hole so I think I do need to play them at the right time in the right context, I think this chick did like what she saw from her responses.

    So what now? I think I’ve already planted the seed in her mind of going out to her place a few times, and maybe she needs to get comfortable with the idea? My thought is give it some time, and if I don’t hear from her, message her tomorrow, but don’t open up right away with aggressively going for the meet at her place?

  12. Morpheus

    Glad you are trying. Now let’s get to learning

    “Hi! How’s things with you, must be weird in the city with this shutdown. Doing yoga at home?”

    No

    No

    No

    Never ever send these kinds of texts. Especially as ping texts.

    How is ∆∆∆ above like “…”?????

    It’s not remotely close. For you, now. NO Exclamation POINTS and NO Questions. At all. Zero. Never ever.

    You really need to start thinking about frame and neediness.

  13. Morpheus

    Come up with five ping texts that aren’t questions or need exclamation points.

    Go…

  14. Morpheus

    Lookan do not take this the wrong way.

    But would you rather jerk off looking in the mirror or bone this girl?

    You’ve got a shot ton of “bone me” responses from her. LEAD
    LEAD
    LEAD

    You: Come over.

    Just have her come over at this point.

    We can break it all down in the next few days but you are too focused on meeting her expectations in this conversation and not focused at all on leading her to your coxk.

    She’s married and openly looking to fuck ffs.

    Go get her.

  15. Her “What are you up to”…..I kind of wondered if this was her fishing if I was free today???

    Green lights don’t get much greener.

    You: pouring a drink. Come over.

    And no more haha stuff…

  16. @Asa

    Late to respond but I thought I’d chime in regarding the Norwegian.

    Two questions. If you think about it, how would have you acted differently if your warning circuits hadn’t activated after the weekend? And what is it that activated them, what is the threat?

    Reading over your story arc it seemed to me that she had you in the “perfect boyfriend” catecory, strong man with alpha traits yet also a “good guy”. And she was testing for comfort, which you repeatedly failed in text communication. Unless what you posted here was all of it, if it wasn’t, then it’s hard to say. You got the reward loop exactly upside down, after the weekend on monday she was showing strong emotion towards you and you were distant, then on friday when she withdrew her attention, you bounced back as the “alpha good guy”. With a little comfort it would have worked effortlessly, but I assume comfort was exactly what triggered your new red pill warning systems, no? Unless you’re an alpha riding purely on attraction (which is a good goal but not the case here), women need that comfort. And at a minimum it’s grounding their negative emotions or giving them even some “way out”.

    I think turning it around is still easy, but not on text. If you call her and tell her confidently “let’s meet, I will explain”, ready to take a yes or a no but not letting her start grabbing the frame and questioning you (you did well with that on the phone after the blowup), I think she’ll do it, because the memory imprint of your weekend is stronger than the mess caused afterwards, which wasn’t really your doing in a strict sense. I don’t think you can turn it around without having to address the mess, but if you meet in person, all you need the give is the smallest plausible “answer” and when she calms down, you take it from there as if nothing ever happened.

    1. @Silent Bob @Sentient et al

      Interesting take on things Bob. To be honest I think you are right in terms of the ‘alpha good guy’ thing. And to a certain extent that has been the pattern in my past relationships, and if I’m really honest that is ‘who I am’ at the moment. The thing is that in past relationsips, any alpha traits have been gradually worn down, leaving a miserable good guy in a shitty relationship. I’m actually perfectly happy to be a good guy with Alpha traits, but if that is going to create expectation that I am going to eventually ‘do the right thing’ it might be a recipe for trouble, as I don’t want to be in an exclusive relationship and I am not going to repeat my past patterns as they were a source of misery. But I don’t actually want to be an asshole either, when Rollo talks of someone that works from the place of ‘enlightened self interest’ that really resonates with me.

      Anyway, you may or may not be right in terms of fixing by text (see below), here is the latest text string with the Norwegian. For the past two days she has replied to me quite quickly, whereas I have been spacing my replies out at 24 hour intervals. Thoughts?

      (if no day and time noted then reply is immediate of close to)

      Me, Thurs 18:51: …
      Her: ?
      Me: Thurs 20:29: BJ (note – initials for Boris Johnson) says we can meet one friend over the park. We have to keep our social distance though.
      Me: Thurs 22:00: How are you Nordicgirl?
      Her: Thurs 23:11: That was a very very random text. You good with words Asappleeze. Try again! What would you really like to say?
      Me: Perhaps it was implicit in the random text. As you say, I’m good with words. I’d like to know how you are though.
      Her: Frid 16:08: Im fine thanks
      Me: Satur 13:24: Three short words imbued with a pout
      Her: Meh
      Her: Telling me i am pouting doesn’t help
      Me: Sund 13:33: More pouting lol. Think you’re beyond help tbh. Sit on my face instead
      Her: Sund 16:19: Mate u havent even really said sorry for talking to me like a total prick

      So there we are fellas. What do we think?

      I have meets with two other girls lined up next week, and blew out a tinder one today as i could not be arsed with it. am also going out with my brother, his french gf and her french mate on wednesday (perfect set up for me – social situation, time to get in my groove etc. all of which i need). so i do have other options. i would be lying however if I claimed they were of the same calibre as the nordic, and for a number of reasons i would like to get it going with her, but not from her frame, so if it has to die on the vine so be it

      .

  17. Asa

    Re Nordic

    Look she is trying to get you to apologize. If you do you will bang her but she will have hand.

    I’d send her some animated gif of a pouty kitten or kid and just leave it again for a few weeks unless she rolls over.

    Some of these frame battles can go months.

    1. @Sentient et al

      Thats what I thought, and this whole thing is about change at the end of the day. Not about sex per se. Bigger picture wise, it was only six months or so ago that I was seriously contemplating buying a canal boat on the thames and living a MGTOW hermit life (lol but serious), so there is no rush. And this thing is going to take time.

  18. @asa

    “I was seriously contemplating buying a canal boat on the thames and living a MGTOW hermit life”

    You definitely shouldn’t do that but I think you should report on the queue as my gut is there’s a lot more to learn from that than meets the eye.

  19. ASAP

    The thing you need to do is reframe this issue as her being a pouty piss while you continue to be the cool high value guy she wants.

    So if she doesn’t come round this time. You let sit three weeks again and then start over.

  20. Though I’d be sorely tempted to text her

    You: I’m going to fuck you listening to this song https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lzS5wWN6wkE

    Let her spaz out

    Her: wtf!!! Bla blah blah

    You: (wait a bit). I’m sorry. I made a mistake. My bad.

    Her: whatever she says doesn’t matter

    You: Meant to link to the live version

  21. And then after that last bit you can soften and be like “ah c’mon lighten up, you know I’m kidding” show a little comfort and set a get together.

  22. ‘No

    Never ever send these kinds of texts. Especially as ping texts.

    How is ∆∆∆ above like “…”?????

    It’s not remotely close. For you, now. NO Exclamation POINTS and NO Questions. At all. Zero. Never ever.”

    LOL, OK, i fucked that one up. I did use the “…” on some stale matches, but I figured on this one maybe she would respond better to a question. Noted for future. Maybe I should have just sent a gif with a woman doing yoga or something? My thought with her was the … would seem like I just accidently had a typo and hit send or something.

    Obviously, much work to do lol.

  23. Morpheus

    Stick with it. You have a lot of potential. We just need to get you out of your own way.

    Basically you and ASAP are opposites struggling with the same issue… How do I detach from my past experience, toss my gut instincts, recognize ios and frames and react in real time.

    Most of us went through the same phase. The process is the outcome.

    I’ll chime in more o your last post there are a few things to amplify.

    Are you reading MM? Watching the videos?

  24. Are you reading MM?

    Yes, but I need to sit down and reread it again. Probably will need to reread it several times, and I suspect several iterations of going back and forth of application and rereading it before I really can effectively internalize it. I remember when I was first reading books on technical analysis and candlesticks, it took a long time before I could just pull up a candlestick chart and instantly see the pattern in the chart, and I would have to go back and reread the stuff on pattern formations and what they meant, etc. I suspect this will be a similar process before I can recognize the patterns described in MM in real-time in an ongoing conversation, and not slipping into my usual patterns wired in over many many years.

    Watching the videos?

    I think I missed something. Would you be able to post the link again?

  25. So here is one from the other day, and my attempt to speak more “cat” than “dog” at least right off the bat…she’s not that attractive so I really could care less but I think I might reengage her tomorrow for practice. I am wondering if a couple of my pics are counterproductive to what I am trying to find online, the “wedding” pic she is referring to is me as best man and has me formally dressed so I figured at least one pic in formal wear was a plus, and I figured one pic with a kid could counterbalance any “douchebag” effect from my working out pic. That’s the reason I asked the question, I am still trying to identify which pic is the winner in swiping, I get a decent amount of the “kid pic” although I do recognize I may not be getting honest answers…how many would say the gym pic if that really is it?

    https://imgur.com/a/Q1Q8Hiq

  26. Morpheus

    So here is one from the other day, and my attempt to speak more “cat” than “dog” at least right off the bat…

    This!!!!!! Hallelujah 🙏👏👏🙌

    Great exchange. Break it down.

    Emotional spike

    Not answering questions directly

    Cold read

    Qualifying

    Food stuff….

    7/10 other guys would have answered her first question with a long direct response and lots of exclamations and rapport seeking.

    Re-read your exchange with her and u derstand what you are doing and how she is responding.

  27. Fellas. Have four field reports. I will divide them into the Good, the Bad & the Ugly (according to my perception at any rate lol). As ever, feedback appreciated. Be a fairly long post so please bare with me:

    The Good

    The Nordic is showing signs of weakening her resolve (I think). However, her reply is still a trap / loaded, I just can’t quite put my finger on what. Latest in the text string with a bit of a recap as follows:

    Me Sat 13:24 – Three short words imbued with a pout
    Her Sat 13:24 – Meh
    Her Sat 13:26 – Telling me I am pouting doesn’t help
    Me Sun 13:33 – More pouting lol. Think you’re beyond help tbh. Sit on my face instead
    Her Sun 16:19 – Mate you haven’t even really said sorry for talking to me like a total prick
    Me Mon 16:02 – Sulking kitten gif (Note – i went for this Sentient as i felt comfortable with it, and got a laugh out of sending it. Your other proposal was too advanced for me)
    Her Mon 19:34 – omg
    Her Mon 19:34 – Anyway whats up what do u want asappleeze
    Her Mon 19:34 – Spell it out

    I will keep my thoughts on this to a minimum but it is relevant to note that this is eerily similar to texts that preceded us hooking up in the first place. By that I mean we did some text flirting, and then she said something along the lines of ‘What do you want? Be direct.’ To which I replied ‘to meet and fuck’ or words to that effect. She replied ‘omg that is soooo direct blah.’ With hindsight this all feels like it was a trap I fell into, notwithstanding that it led to a fuck, but one in her frame. So i initially thought, ah, lay it out nice and direct here, on reflection i am not so sure. so interested to hear your thoughts. I also thought I’d throw it out there that she is a staunch card carrying feminist and her last relationship was a 1 year lesbian LTR.

    Met the Aussie today. So will have to lay out some of the text string leading to the meet, the meet itself, and the text that followed, to establish if this is shaping up to a legit seduction in my frame on my part which is how it feels:

    Me Sat 13:17 – I thought you were fun, but you are too much hard work tbh
    Her Sat 13:17 – OK I actually wanted to see you again. But if you don’t want to, it’s ok. Up to you.
    Me: Sat 13:19 – Lol. So we meeting Sunday or Monday?
    Her: Sat 13:19 – Monday 🙂
    Me: Sat 13:19 – Good!
    Her: Sat 13:19 – text you on Monday to arrange
    Me: Sat 13:19 – Ok
    Her Mon 13:07 – Are you up for meeting today?
    Her Mon 13:08 – Was thinking to meet around 3 or 4 or something?
    Me Mon 13:10 – 4 works. Meet at Balham station
    Her: Mon 13:10 – OK 🙂

    I went there with the attitude of starting from scratch, as Palma mentioned given the escalation without closing last time she would be wary that i would wrongly expect to pick up from where i left off. And so on my way down there it occured to me she would shit test me on my beard, which is thicker than it was last time we met. Sure enough she did that right off the bat, and so I had some canned material ready. I replied that I had converted to Islam, and that she was to refer to me as Mohammed Asif, and that she would have to convert one day too. That got a fun interaction going. We sat over the park, and a mixture of shit tests from her and negs from me ensued. Then we did some general chewing of the fat. The next bits I will try to lay out like a text string for feedback:

    Me: Mentioned that I have a son (did not mean to, but it turned out to be ok)
    Her: oh. well i have a daughter actually. here look.
    Me; blah blah
    Her: me and her father have an open relationship. we live together
    Me: (Empathic tone) That figures – I felt you were a free spirit etc blah blah
    Her: I feel trapped
    Me: I understand that perfectly – there is nothing more important than being free etc
    Her: (Segue into a new topic) So when you blanked me for a couple of weeks, had you found a better option than me?
    Me: (gentle reassuring tones) You know, I’m really a face to face kind of guy. I’m not interested in text buddies. So friends – male or female – with whom I was able to meet face to face was a better option
    Her: nods
    Me: And at that time we were not officially friends…
    Her: Now we are…
    Me: Yes

    I now move in and hold her close and start to stroke her hair and kissed her gently on her lips. Not sexual stuff, intimate, comfort was what I was aiming for. Thinking on my feet, my logistics are now very uncertain i.e i was intending to use her place for the bang as we were in her area and she told me she was single. ALso arranged to meet in her area as that is where we met the first time and it would be straightforward for her. i now know she is probably cheating on her fella who is at home with her kid, so don’t know if she can get away for the night etc. So I figure I need to keep it in comfort, get the next meet arranged with better logistics and pick up from there (i did not think all of this instantly, but it unfolded deliberately):

    Her: My friends don’t do this to me. Do you do this to your friends?
    Me: I do it to this friend
    Her: oh ok

    Lots of laser eye contact, stroking the hair, holding her etc

    Me: Do you want to come and see my stamp collection? (lol)
    Her: You collect stamps? I used to when I was a girl also
    Me: stamps blah blah (i did collect them as a kid and evidently so did she lol)
    Her: I dunno. i really have to get going soon. but i’d like to see them at some point. but i will be very upset if you are just going to fuck me and not show me your stamps. You are a very very smooth talker
    Me: non committal blah blah

    I’m a bit hazy on what followed, but there was sexual tension

    Her: Don’t you just want to fuck my brains out?? (this felt incongruent and therefore beta bait?? or i may just have missed the trick. i don’t think so due to what followed, but i don’t know).
    Me: I just want to go with the flow (or something non-commital)
    Her: So you don’t want to fuck my brains out
    Me: Something non-committal

    There was a physical type submission in her posture at this point

    Comfort type stuff continues.

    Me: Its getting cold. Time to go soon
    Her: yes blah blah
    Me: Lets arrange to meet again now
    Her: non-committal blah
    Me: No. We will make the arrangements now. Then things will happen.
    Her: OK. I’ve learned my lesson (seemed key to me)
    Me: And you come to my area next time.
    Her: OK.
    Me: I have plans for the rest of the week. So we will meet Friday (I have plans the rest of the week already, so this is the earliest I could do).
    Her: ok great… unless i change my mind (this felt weak and unconvincing)
    Me: Goodbye, couple of light non sexual kisses

    Short while after I sent her a text, figuring I was in comfort with her, and the string is as follows:

    (all one after the other)

    Me: I had fun, it was good to see you
    Her: Yes good to see you 🙂 I had fun too. Xx
    Me: x
    Her: Message me Friday morning and we will figure out what to do..
    Me: I will. See you then

    Thoughts on the above gents? I have to say I enjoyed the whole interaction, was good fun.

    The Bad

    So met with Palma on Saturday. It was very last minute as I am keeping strange hours at the mo which tends to happen to me if I am not going to an office every day. As such, it was more a last minute beer and talking shit rather than anything else. There was no dressing up or anything. Nevertheless, when we were queueing up to get some beers Palma opened a couple of early twenty somethings. He negged them and got some decent banter going and they were hooked in. however, i just fucking froze. when i say froze, i mean in the sense of the fight, flight or freeze. total shutdown of useful cognition. has been literally years since i approached girls cold, and i used to do it pissed up with champagne and cocaine flowing giving it the big one and that was effective in a way. Anyway, Palma valiantly tried to get me involved by saying ‘he is a northerner’ to which they replied, ‘oh yeah where from.’ I managed to prise open my mouth which had to that point seemed welded shut, and spluttered ‘Shithole near london.’ To which the girls replied, ‘ewwww ‘shithole near london. no thanks. we thought you meant proper up north blah blah.’ On reflection I am pretty sure this was a shit test, which i could have dealt with in a number of ways and we may well have been away. Instead, I tried to qualify myself to them with, ‘don’t you want a bit of rough from ‘shithole near london.’ At that point one of the girls turned her back on us and that was that. So would be interested in thoughts on that.

    Nevertheless, we had a great evening, went to see some family of mine in the area palma lives in and had good craic. and will be doing again some time.

    The Ugly

    Posting this for the lols as much as anything, also interested if anyone has experienced this or not.

    You may recall i said I had cancelled a tinder date on sunday. it was because i could not be assed with the meeting up and all that jazz. but i decided after to see if she was up for just hooking up instead, text string and chronolyogy of events follows:

    Her: Sorry for the delay, do you still want to meet later
    Me: (two hours later) Sure. Come over
    Her: lol
    Her: Now?
    Me: Yes
    Her: lol
    Her: Ok…
    Me: My postcode
    Her: Can I park around there
    Me: Yes
    Her: On my way

    When she arrived at front door, I opened it up and she looked like she was dressed to go and eat at fucking Ducasse in Monte Carlo. lol. anyway as soon as she was through the front door i was on her, but she resisted quite strongly. i grabbed her and pulled her towards me again and led her to the bedroom. when we went through the door, she pointed at my sons cot and more or less shrieked ‘where is your baby?’ and then said she was leaving. i was like ok, whatever, see you later. just seemed like a bit of nutter to be honest. she did text after though, which made me wonder i f i dropped the ball a little:

    Her: I was not expecting to walk in and hook up
    Her: Maybe I should have asked more questions
    Me: Thats cool Jess. Have a good week

    I couldn’t be assed again by that time. I think the issue here was that the messaging that preceded the meet at mine was not overtly sexual, arranging a sexual encounter, as my first tinder hook up was. so on that first occasion with the hungarian, i was in a hotel room and answered the door naked and ready for action and it was congruent with what had gone before and her promise of a BJ on arrival. this time though i feel that i probably needed to go through the motions of carrying on what had occured in the messaging, i.e do the blah blah, would not have taken much effort, she was already at my gaff, but i just dived in prematurely. The texts she sent after implied that as well, and i realized at that point. Thoughts?

    I’m meeting a girl on Thursday, not tinder, another girl, strange scenario, will post seperately as I am in danger i think of taking what she said literally and missing the point.

    Thanks for reading if you ,managed to get to the end of all that

  28. Her: Don’t you just want to fuck my brains out?? (this felt incongruent and therefore beta bait?? or i may just have missed the trick. i don’t think so due to what followed, but i don’t know).
    Me: I just want to go with the flow (or something non-commital)
    Her: So you don’t want to fuck my brains out
    Me: Something non-committal

    Question I have here is when do you just go with a cigar is just a cigar vs OK the chick is playing some type of game shit test here. I mean I’ve had a few situations in the past where the woman throws out something along these lines, and basically I was like “Yeah, I think you are hot” or something like that, just flat out direct and it was either on right away or in hindsight I just needed to establish a bit more comfort before she would fuck (thinking about a spring break bang I had in grad school). So I guess my question/concern is distinguishing between the scenarios where this is “bait” or more bullshit and you’ve got more work to do vs the woman is basically saying “Hey, I am DTF right now, take me and fuck me” and instead of simply doing that, you end up playing too many games and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?

  29. Here is today’s text exchange with married chick J…I’m thinking either tomorrow or the day after I ask directly for the meet up depending on what my schedule looks like:

    J – I went to a different store and they were out of tp as well. But, they had a variety of pickles.

    Me – The quest for tp continues . Fan of pickles?

    J – I am!

    Me – The taste or texture

    J – Both

    Me – Hmmmm

    Me – Do you like your pickles thick and crunchy or soft and sliced?

    J – Hahaha

    Thick and crunchy

    Me –

    At this point, I had stuff to do so that was it

    So my thought is to maybe go direct at this point, something like

    Me – What are you up to today? I was thinking I should come over and we can bird watch 🙂 (she mentioned bird watching in a previous discussion)

    I’m wondering if first to ask for some pics from her as a sort of compliance test??? And to really set the tone that if I am driving that distance (she is well over an hour a way) I am coming over to fuck???

    Different note, had a new match today that I gave a smart ass answer and she unmatched, but I was glad I did based on the pic she posted…I’m really trying to work on a mindset change of who gives a fuck if I offend one of these chicks and really it is just another number in the numbers game.

    There are two others, both previous bangs, one more of a longer-term relationship who are bizarrely sporadically texting me or phoning me but then unresponsive when I text back. I’ll admit I am thoroughly confused what their angle is, or what they want from me, the longer-term relationship one is now married to basically your textbook beta provider (they guy is probably an Aspie and makes 150K+ in a high level engineering position). I can put up our most recent texts if it would be helpful in establishing wtf she wants from me, and how I need to correctly respond

  30. In terms of the queue girls, firstly it wasn’t a cold approach, I’d got an IOI in the shape of a second glance from the one on the left.

    Although we weren’t dressed up I was wearing a special shirt. The history of them is that when I had a bigger business and when we hit monthly target I would take the top salesman out in London to drink beer etc.. buy Liberty print fabric then off to a tailor to get a shirt made. Me and him, different ones, any eccentricity you wanted. The staff used to compete for that.

    To put it in scale of eccentricity this one is a large blue paisley with double cuffs that need cuff links and the cuff on the right is bright red.

    I was wearing a similar shirt the following day in town and walked past a woman waking her dog. I didn’t know her and she hadn’t seen my face but when I’d passed her she said from behind “nice shirt” so I turned round and we had a chat etc…. It caught me on the wrong foot in a ghost town with nowhere open even for a coffee so I was stumped on escalation. It was almost bloody tumbleweed. Two of us totally alone in the middle of a dead city. So surreal I flunked it.

    I’m only spelling that out to describe the power of the peacock. If we’d gone with plan A of the formal evening dress with black bow tie and jacket, cummerbund etc.. but shorts and flip flops women would have been opening us left right and centre.

    I’d forgotten it can also fire up some men to want a fight but we could have handled that.

    It was opened along the lines :

    PS: are you two even allowed out?

    Them: not really she lied to her mum and said we’re going to xyz..

    PS: yeah you look like trouble etc… and then something along the lines of questioning if one had a licence for those eyelashes / or were they even legal..

    Bit of banter about my mate from up north (everywhere is north from here so it’s a standard tourist joke)

    They engaged @asa “where up north?” And predictably he’s from 30 miles up north so not really north, in fact the whole country considers it to be south.

    Them saying that wasn’t really a shit test, just banter but we/he could have come back hard ripping into them “of course it’s bloody north you get gravy on your chips up there” or almost any other shit bc they were laughing and so rapidly approaching being “on cam” l.

    We could have just gone hard at them and they would have been in fits of laughter.

    They got served and went back to the two blokes they were with and we wandered off talking shit.

    @asa thinking he’s from a “shit place” is on his own head and nowhere else, they hadn’t meant that when he said it.

    Bearing in mind he’s easily capable of intelligent witty conversation and could easily have hit those two it’ll be Interesting to hear general comments especially on the fight or flight thing.

  31. @asappleeze
    however, i just fucking froze. when i say froze, i mean in the sense of the fight, flight or freeze. total shutdown of useful cognition. has been literally years since i approached girls cold, and i used to do it pissed up with champagne and cocaine flowing giving it the big one and that was effective in a way.

    Don’t stress it, happens when out of your comfort zone and starting something new or trying it again after a long break. A matter of practice and exposure. There’s a reason we recommend the 400+ cold approaches challenge.

    Some say 500 lol

    Also, there’s a rhythm of the night and there’s the rhythm of your own. @Palma is fast and talkative from the get go, your style may differ.

    Don’t stress it. Let’s look into it if the block becomes a theme.

    When she arrived at front door, I opened it up and she looked like she was dressed to go and eat at fucking Ducasse in Monte Carlo.

    Her: I was not expecting to walk in and hook up

    Yeah she spent a lot of time wrapping that present for you. You didn’t pace it right. Comfort, building tension etc. She wasn’t there for the physical act. She wanted a thrill.

    When a pussycat shows up in the dragon’s den… she’s there for emotions.

    She could have unwrapped that present for you herself…

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/22/6f/8e226f779bb20ca53a85ddcb114a551b.gif

    No time to cover the rest but you’re getting great advice and doing well. Keep at it.

  32. @asa

    All in all you’re nearly there.

    I’d have handled both by cooking. And I’d have done it as an assumptive.

    The stamp collection thing was an overt piss take which is good but led into whatever conversation happened because it was overt you wanted to bang her. Apart from anything else it was an overt IOI. Without dissecting the whole thing I can’t tell if she’s earned that. If not it would have been a DLV which would have spiked her to push back. In addition to that It was so overt that it set off a conversation about banging her and her ASD went into overdrive.

    First one:

    “You know, something cropped up at work and it’s been a bit of a rush so I haven’t eaten let’s just nip back for half hour and I’ll cook a lite bite to eat then we’ll head out again”.

    Her oh ok.. you need to eat that badly?

    You: yeah actually I do need something..

    You take her hand and walk her off laughing and joking about her forthcoming conversion to Islam.. lol

    Then when she’s in the kitchen you go for the strawberries in the fridge, chop em up, feed her with a fork and then move in for the kill.

    Ive got half bottle champagne in the fridge I would have cracked. I have two glasses that live in the freezing compartment. you could have anything fizzy and cold even without alcohol.

    Same story with no.2

    “Lovely to see you, come in, prop her up in the kitchen to get some strawberries out the fridge and do the same.

    Too much talking about it, not enough doing it by just leading them where you want them.

  33. ^^ dont forget to play fight with the strawberries – put some honey on them and then try to get her on the nose with the sticky stuff..

    then you got to lick it off / go for the kill…

  34. ASAP

    Her Mon 19:34 – omg
    Her Mon 19:34 – Anyway whats up what do u want asappleeze
    Her Mon 19:34 – Spell it out

    Well you are back in play…

    What does your gut say? was the “omg” a good response? OMG = cool! or was it OMG = fuck this guy?

    I like to read these things with the best intentions, assuming attraction because it is easier to work from that frame. I fyou overstep easier to dial back vs assuming no attraction and killing it off.

    Take the frame back here.

    You: enough text, let’s get a drink. Tuesday 8PM over at X [where you have good logistics]

    but do you see how the other option I put out might have worked out here? To get past her shit test AND build attraction?

    Aussie

    Her: My friends don’t do this to me. Do you do this to your friends?
    Me: I do it to this friend
    Her: oh ok

    Lots of laser eye contact, stroking the hair, holding her etc

    whole thing is awesome, you destroyed her attempt to FZ you… lol So NEVER listen to what they say, watch what they do…

    Her: So you don’t want to fuck my brains out
    Me: Something non-committal

    Great response in these situations that preserves frame and isn’t over gaming

    Me: we’ll see how you play your cards. You don’t want to dive in too quick with the validation she is seeking, BUT you do want to give her the subcomms that yeah she is getting boned… so you then LEAD like Palma says and get her over to bang…

    Her: Message me Friday morning and we will figure out what to do..
    Me: I will. See you then

    Awesome. This is a bang, just don’t rush it. Set up meet close by, warm her up a bit like before, then lead back to your place, “c’mon I have better stuff nearby”…

    Just an awesome turn around…

  35. ASAP

    On the freeze. Well welcome welcome… Lol.

    The process is the outcome. Rewire that brain through repetition and drill… Until you see it as fun. This is what online won’t prepare you for you just have to go through it.

    The ugly

    Dudebro that was a slam dunk, you just over revved it. Calibration

    She resisted quite strongly

    This is where you pay attention and roll off a bit… That’s what a guy who “just gets it does” and a guy who doubles down scares the shit out of her.

    Roll off… Pour some drinks. Sit away from her and just restart your game.

    You can totally save this and should for experience. Just text her something funny throw in a spot of comfort “you look good done up” and say you still have a bottle of wine unopened and your stamp collection and have her back around.

    Plausible deniability with some fun banter.

  36. Morpheus

    I was like “Yeah, I think you are hot” or something like that, just flat out direct and it was either on right away or in hindsight I just needed to establish a bit more comfort before she would fuck (thinking about a spring break bang I had in grad school). So I guess my question/concern is distinguishing between the scenarios where this is “bait” or more bullshit and you’ve got more work to do vs the woman is basically saying “Hey, I am DTF right now, take me and fuck me” and instead of simply doing that, you end up playing too many games and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?

    Whenever a girl is talking about fucking, even in general terms, she is open to fucking you. So as a guy who “just gets it” you are better off not going back direct verbally and just communicate your interest via subcomms and actions and lead her to isolation and the bang.

    Avoids you satisfying her validation need “omg YES ur so haaawt”

    Poof! Spell broken frame shifted script flipped…

    Vs

    “We’ll see how you play your cards” with strong fuck her eye contact and you l ading her back “let’s go look at that stamp collection”

    So it can “just happen”

  37. Morpheus

    *Me – Do you like your pickles thick and crunchy or soft and sliced?

    J – Hahaha

    Thick and crunchy

    Me –*

    Spike again!

    Me: Damn! I thought you were going to say gherkins..😒

    You really want to work on this one get her to drive to you…

    *There are two others, both previous bangs, *

    Well girls send ping texts too🙃

    They are probably ovulating and the married one for sure has a short window to operate in so jump on that text right away. No alpha waiting for two hours. Same old same old run that game move to a meet isolate and escalate.

  38. @PalmaSailor thanks for feedback

    “…@asa thinking he’s from a “shit place” is on his own head and nowhere else, they hadn’t meant that when he said it…”

    Been thinking about this, what is going on underneath that. I think it is my blue pill mindset coming to the fore i.e I’ve always lived in cool, trendy areas (until the ex skinned me alive anyway lol) and put a lot of stock into that in terms of me being a good ‘betabux’ catch. therefore I feel insecurity around it in the company of women still.

    “…“You know, something cropped up at work and it’s been a bit of a rush so I haven’t eaten let’s just nip back for half hour and I’ll cook a lite bite to eat then we’ll head out again”…”

    This is good material, thanks. And re leading and action rather than conversation, i will work on that.

    @IRL thanks for feedback

    “…Yeah she spent a lot of time wrapping that present for you. You didn’t pace it right. Comfort, building tension etc. She wasn’t there for the physical act. She wanted a thrill.

    When a pussycat shows up in the dragon’s den… she’s there for emotions.

    She could have unwrapped that present for you herself…”

    See, I had not looked at it like that at all. I thought she didn’t ‘get it.’ Naive, but lol nonetheless. Thanks for the feedback, this is useful to know.

    @Sentient thanks for feedback

    “…What does your gut say? was the “omg” a good response?…

    Yes, i believe so. Because it came in slightly before the, “anyway…” And so the ‘anyway’ was like an afterthought that followed the inital omg. that was my initial take anyhow. So I went ahead and texted as you suggested, no response yet but I did not expect one quickly. The pattern before is she takes time to respond to arranging meet ups, so its part of her game at this stage i think. i could be wrong though, we’ll find out soon enough. I do see how your other approach would have killed two birds with one stone, yes.

    “…Me: we’ll see how you play your cards. You don’t want to dive in too quick with the validation she is seeking, BUT you do want to give her the subcomms that yeah she is getting boned… so you then LEAD like Palma says and get her over to bang…”

    Got it.

    “…Awesome. This is a bang, just don’t rush it. Set up meet close by, warm her up a bit like before, then lead back to your place, “c’mon I have better stuff nearby”…

    Just an awesome turn around……”

    Got it. And thanks, getting some good advice here I think.

    “…On the freeze. Well welcome welcome… Lol.

    The process is the outcome. Rewire that brain through repetition and drill… Until you see it as fun. This is what online won’t prepare you for you just have to go through it…”

    I’m up for it. Whilst the aussie started on tinder, the from scratch date yesterday was a lot of fun, and if that is the pay off then all good. different kettle of fish to being led by the nose

    Regarding ‘the ugly’ ok i will give that a shot and see what happens…

    ps some of those app interactions… ‘always wanted to fuck a cat’ fucking lol man

  39. @Asapplease

    Rollo associate Rich Cooper had a good Youtube 1:07 hour long video with a divorced dad who got switched from old blue pill identity to red pill realism by plunging into salt dating on a sugar baby site:

    https://www.sugarplayer.com/salt-dating-beginners-guide/

    What struck me by watching the video conversation was the Frame the Australian guy developed by his experienced with women after a long blue pill existence and then breakup with his dignity intact.

    You might want to hook up some ear buds and listen to it. It is an example of the interviewee breaking his habits and coming out the other side with a perspective that is not as discouraged in a situation similar to your own. Like the author, this guy has apparent skills in adapting. It is insightful and interesting. I’m not in a position to want to read his book, but the U.S. price might be worth your while, IDK, $8.49 seems like cheap schooling in your future life practice. Perhaps like Palma’s book. Excellent value. (I’m in a different game. And I didn’t only learn from books. I’ve lived a rich life. I got out and did shit.)

    Here is the video:

    https://youtu.be/eQFNpD1IaP0

    Here is his book description on Amazon:

    Are you pissed off with women these days?

    C.W. Confidence was…

    Since he was a young boy, C. W. Confidence had been taught to view all women as authoritarian, virtuous angels who could do no wrong. He allowed women to mistreat him, abuse him and exploit him for their own selfish wishes.

    But, after surviving a traumatic and complicated divorce, he decided enough was enough.
    He was going to make up for lost time and date all the beautiful girls he missed out on as an ignorant youngster.

    But he was forty now. Was that even possible?

    “Here Be Dragons – A Story of Red Pilled Dating in the 21st Century” is the real-life tale of one man’s wild journey, from clueless desperation, through revenge-seeking misogyny, to peaceful redemption, set against the backdrop of the insane world of Sugar Dating.

    Follow C.W. Confidence’s adventure as he unlocks the mysteries behind successfully dating Instagram models half his age, deals with manipulative, duplicitous seductresses behaving at their absolute worst, and ultimately discovers what it takes to genuinely attract REAL high quality women in the 21st century.

  40. Asap

    ps some of those app interactions… ‘always wanted to fuck a cat’ fucking lol man

    Once you finish MM and really start to learn it you will see it’s mostly about frames. Who is in who’s? Who reacts? How?

    They ALL want to fuck. It’s just a matter of understandimg the catonese.

  41. @Morpheus

    you are still doing great… and getting great advice… just keep playing and you’ll get there…

    quick point…

    “Her: Don’t you just want to fuck my brains out?? (this felt incongruent and therefore beta bait?? or i may just have missed the trick. i don’t think so due to what followed, but i don’t know).
    Me: I just want to go with the flow (or something non-commital)
    Her: So you don’t want to fuck my brains out
    Me: Something non-committal”

    Question I have here is when do you just go with a cigar is just a cigar

    when you’ve f*k her a dozen times and she is in your plate rotation…lol…

    but even then she’ll still sh*t test you…lol

    vs OK the chick is playing some type of game shit test here.

    assuming that it’s a sh*t test will NEVER hurt you… bc then you handle that situ and LEAD her… so you get to the same end point… it’s just on YOUR terms/frame…

    I mean I’ve had a few situations in the past where the woman throws out something along these lines, and basically I was like “Yeah, I think you are hot” or something like that, just flat out direct and it was either on right away or in hindsight I just needed to establish a bit more comfort before she would fuck (thinking about a spring break bang I had in grad school). So I guess my question/concern is distinguishing between the scenarios where this is “bait” or more bullshit and you’ve got more work to do vs the woman is basically saying “Hey, I am DTF right now, take me and fuck me”

    assuming that^^^ was just a straight up dog-talk request… bc she’s just horny…lol… who’s frame is this?…

    so do you want a girl that wants ((A)) d*ck…

    or

    do you want a girl that wants ((YOUR)) d*ck?…

    and which is better for your overall situ in the long run?… and which do you think would be more fun for her?… (hint – these goals align…lol)

    and instead of simply doing that, you end up playing too many games and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?

    that only happens if you stop playing by the RP rules…lol

    good luck!

  42. Alright fellas, so it looks like it is on with the Nordic. Text string as follows, any thoughts / tips on how to proceed appreciated:

    Me Tues 17:36 – Enough text. Lets meet over x on Saturday at 5pm
    Her Wed 20:51 – All right
    Her Wed 21:56 – All right?
    Me Wed 21:56 – Yes, see you there
    Her Wed 21:56 – Alright. Be kind. Be the person that I actually met with last time

    For a short string there is quite a bit going on there I think, but I’m interested in the objective perspective before I deliberate upon it too much.

    Met another girl today, will make a separate field report on that

  43. Asap

    Good stuff man. You brought her around.

    See how a firm frame and a change of topic changed her up? She’s looking for boundaries and you provided it.

    Just go out and see her and be you. If you want it, take it.

    She’s just saving face with the “be nice_ stuff. Ignore it. In person If she brings up any of the menstruation B’s just laugh it off. If she presses tell her that she’s not being attractive and then dhv and change the topic.

    Just do the in person by the numbers – attraction, comfort and seduction.

    She’s thinking of getting that cock again don’t disappoint her.

  44. ASAP

    You attitude is:

    “You’re lucky I’m still talking to you little girl. Don’t fuck it up.”

    If she does fuck it up just roll off of her and start flirting with other girls.

  45. @asappleeze

    Yup, all good. Her last line to push you into an apologetic nice guy role is just a filter for an alpha stud. She’s responsive and willing to meet. Go for this open window, don’t step into any other token walls she may put up and make it happen.

    It’s given she’ll play the “I expect apologies/explanations” card in person. That’s a fitness test to see how you react. If she can control you with feelz. But she’s just a little ginger squirrel trying to make this solid oak tree bend to her little squeaking.

    No need for apologies (go and re-read your text to see you didn’t say anything that she couldn’t take lightly) and avoid logical explanations (she’ll help you dig a deeper hole that way). Ignore it but fill the space with a different topic, let the conversation flow. You could respond with “yeah I’ve been told I’m handful” with a smirk and pivot to a DHV story.

    If she keeps bringing it up, tell her you thought she was a cool chick but she’s spoiling the moment now. As Sentient said, roll off and chat up other people, especially girls. All cool and chill.

    You can tell how this, your attention and withdrawal together with your body language, define the dynamic between the two of you. Non-verbal comms.

    TL;DR: Don’t walk into her walls, look for openings. Don’t take her shit seriously. The rest is as per your usual. Props man.

  46. IRL

    yeah I’ve been told I’m handful”

    Lol. I see what you did there…

    Response:. Two handfuls actually…

    Wait…

    One to hold the microscope one to gold a tweezer…

  47. @Sentient
    You: I’m going to fuck you listening to this song
    Her: wtf!!! Bla blah blah
    You: (wait a bit). I’m sorry. I made a mistake. My bad.
    Her: whatever she says doesn’t matter
    You: Meant to link to the live version
    And then after that last bit you can soften and be like “ah c’mon lighten up, you know I’m kidding” show a little comfort and set a get together.

    What can I say, always fun to ride that wave… with a flip… lol

    1. @IRL @Sentient

      Great feedback fellas, appreciate it. Now to continue to putting it into practice.

  48. @asa

    Well done.

    Is it abooooout a month since the first time?

    That errrr time of the month the starts to find cocky arseholes more attractive for some reason she really doesn’t understand?

  49. Hey Rollo, thanks for sharing your precious knowledge with us. But I had a question regarding game. How can we improve game? Is cold approach the only way, or if there is an alternative then please share.

  50. Ugh damn no paragraph spacing…
    @kshitij

    That’s a very basic question and indicates you’ve done nowhere near enough reading.

    Direct openers are the most difficult because you’re giving her and unearned IOI usually.

    Indirect is a much better way to go.

    Start by reading Mystery Method.

    Then read it again. And then again.

    Feel free to come back with questions.

  51. Kshitij

    Let me tell you a bit about what goes on in a blog. That you entered asking questions.

    First of all, how good is your English as a second language?

    A blog is a difficult way to get information. More so than a forum. It is less directed and more free form tangents.

    The way a blog works is that the blog master controls the flow of original essays. Then people comment about his ideas. They riff off of it–have a same or different take, interpretation or perspective.

    The older a blog gets and the more the ideas have been floating around for 8 or 18 years, the more the comments go on a tangent.

    The manosphere has been floating ideas for decades now and there are established ideas of red pill thought about how inter-sexual dynamics work. For whatever questions you have men have discussed them in the manosphere for decades.

    You are asking questions, like what is the best technical approach to computer information technology. Or what is the best approach to medical care, or what is the best approach to philosophy.

    If you enter a room and ask questions like that to a group of strangers, of which this blog has a longstanding discussion group, with unique personalities, guess what?

    You introduce yourself, tell something about yourself and your needs and then you politely get feedback.

    Without general questions, but specific questions.

    Like you explain who you are what your ethnicity and culture is–I assume you are some sort of Indian culture are or are not assimilated into Western culture by your avatar name. But who the fuck knows. You haven’t announced yourself and most often Game is domain dependent. More often than not.

    So introduce yourself to this group. And ask specific, not general questions that have already been discussed ad-infinitum. About Game over the last decade. Keep in mind that this milieu, the manosphere has imploded over the past year with guys going different ways. It used to be more aligned and cohesive discussing inter-sexual dynamics and ways to masculine self improve in order to best represent one-self in regards to intersexual relationships, depending on one’s goals.

    Oh, and by the way, what are your goals and what do you want to accomplish? And where have you been with girls?

    Tell us about yourself and what do you need to be helped with?

    Don’t be so general. Be specific.

    And Rollo just changed formatting so bear with it if there are no paragraph breaks.

    1. Thank you. To be honest, I just wanted to know the best way of approach. I do not have approach anxiety. The only thing I wanted to know was what is the best way to approach girls, that’s it.

  52. And if you click on Read More and the comment doesn’t expand–keep clicking on it more times and it will open.

  53. There is not such as a general answer. It depends.

    What are you trying to accomplish?

    You are tending to be totally reductive–tending to present a subject or problem in a simplified form, especially one viewed as crude.

    It’s not a simple answer. There are a myriad of variables. And there is you rather than everybody else.

    Anyone that says there is a simple answer is going to try to sell you a simple answer for a buck to a complex problem.

    Sorry, but you are asking for cheat codes. As opposed to looking to build yourself into a better masculine performance machine, that knows who you are, what you want to do, and how to do the best iteration of yourself to accomplish your goals.

    You might have had a poor introduction to the manosphere and Game.

    You might have seen pick up businesses and PUA stuff. For cheat codes. But it is a business. But it is not a viable business. Meaning beware of you are being sold.

    https://krauserpua.com/2020/05/20/pick-up-is-not-a-viable-business/

  54. First of all, tell me what you did to hit a reply to button. That is a cool new feature. How does that show up in your comment? The blog format changed over the weekend…

    “So according to you how can a person build a masculine personality?”

    First of all, I’ve been commenting here for a lot of years.

    Second of all I had a good organic building foundation of growth.

    The answer is you take stock of who you are now. And you understand who you are now and you dedicate yourself to enhance your strengths and minimize your weaknesses.

    You take your foundational growing up experiences. Who your parents are and how they treated you and your siblings. You shrug off their weaknesses. You dedicate yourself to going forward with positive direction. Positive masculine strength.

    Positive masculine virtues are Strength, Courage, Mastery and Honor (among men). And believe and achive those virtues. Because they are core masculine values independent of women. These are fleshed out in a seminal book by Jack Donovan called The Way of Men. $5.99 Kindle and $11.89 paperback in the US on Amazon.

    So you develop solid masculine Frame.

    Read all of Rollo’s books. Or just his The Best of The Rational Male Year One on the top of the blog links.

    You get a mentor. A mentor is someone that at any point in their life. Including uncles or any successful male and you pick their brains without being a leach. You offer your services to them and you pick their brains about what this thing called life is all about. Successful people have the answers. Female sisters and mothers and other women don’t have the masculine answer to that question. But their offerings are valuable in how they behave in a feminine demeanor and how they respond to the masculine in a complementary way.

    And another seminal book is David Deida’s The Way of the Superior Man in regards to having masculine Frame and responding to squirrel-ly feminine ways. The masculine way is straight-forward directional logic and accomplishment, whereas the feminine is a sloshing around in a ocean of emotion. The metaphor is an ocean voyage and how men and women go forward with that.

    And as a background, one of the seminal things in this regard is Chateau Heartiste’s decade old The Sixteen Commandments of Poon. Even if they seem harsh from you Blue Pill upbringing, they are not actually anti-Feminine.

    https://heartiste.org/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

    I’m not sure where the date of May 19th, 2019 came from. I think it is from 2009…

    The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon
    May 19th, 2019 by CH

    I. Never say ‘I Love You’ first

    Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win a man’s heart. They crave the challenge of capturing the interest of a man who has other women competing for his attention, and eventually prevailing over his grudging reluctance to award his committed exclusivity. The man who gives his emotional world away too easily robs women of the satisfaction of earning his love. Though you may be in love with her, don’t say it before she has said it. Show compassionate restraint for her need to struggle toward yin fulfillment. Inspire her to take the leap for you, and she’ll return the favor a thousandfold.

    II. Make her jealous

    Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.

    III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority

    Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.

    IV. Don’t play by her rules

    If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.

    V. Adhere to the golden ratio

    Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.

    VI. Keep her guessing

    True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don’t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight — his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you’re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.

    VII. Always keep two in the kitty

    Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.

    VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary

    Do not say you’re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words “I’m sorry.” Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say “Mistakes were made” or tell her you “feel bad” about what you did. You are granted two freebie “I’m sorry”s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.

    IX. Connect with her emotions

    Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.

    X. Ignore her beauty

    The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle — through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself “she’s interesting” or “she might be worth getting to know”. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren’t fucking. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.

    XI. Be irrationally self-confident

    No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more pussy than rational defeatism.

    XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses

    In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.

    XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little

    Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an asshole, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate asshole beats being a polite beta, every time.

    XIV. Fuck her good

    Fuck her like it’s your last fuck. And hers. Fuck her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.

    XV. Maintain your state control

    You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.

    XVI. Never be afraid to lose her

    You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her.

    ***

    The closer you follow the letter of these commandments, the easier you will find and keep real, true unconditional love and happiness in your life.

    Best,

    Your Lord and King

    What do you think of that Kshitij? Natural Law? Moral Law? or rather forced Game?

  55. @kshitij

    Make more effort in here and answer the questions that have been asked

    They’ve been asked for a reason

    If you’re too lazy to do that get lost

  56. Ran into a girl from a year or more ago. FR is somewhere in the pages. I was out at lunch catching a game and she came and sat next to me at the bar with a friend, knew her a little from a restaurant. Anyhow game progressed and we bounced to another bar and made out and then I had to get home.

    Saw her the other day, relocated to a new restaurant due to Corona. Was funny. I stopped going to the other place after the make out, too close to home so I just left it. Food sucked too… She was happy to see me, no issues at all. I said I stopped going food sucked. She said I’d have to come back to this new place and see her. I said sure. Got my food and split. Interesting.

  57. lots of lols…

    https://www.thedartmouth.com/article/2018/05/through-the-looking-glass-the-x-factor

    Most of us have an ex — a significant other, a hookup or even a friend. But not every college student has experienced “the X.”

    At Dartmouth, masked behind a laughable meme, there is a stereotyped system we call the X. Girls “peak” as freshmen and become less desirable as they age. Boys inversely rise in desirability to finally “peak” as seniors. While the idea of older guys going for younger girls is not novel, the construct of “the X,” with its official title and explanation, gives the whole trend an odd sense of legitimacy.

    One boy in particular stands out in my mind. I first noticed his tall stature and sure sense of self from across the basement as he frantically foraged for a pong ball. By fate, I would have once said, we were introduced after his winning game through a friend of a friend. From the way he casually touched my arm and lower left hip, I could tell he was into me. So we attempted to have a conversation in that noisy, smelly frat basement.

    Leaning into my ear after having shouted at/spoken to each other for 40 or so minutes, he whispered, “Do you want to get out of here? I live upstairs.” More of a statement than a question. I confidently smirked, knowing how those stories ended, and decided to settle for his phone number. With a stolen kiss goodnight, I walked out of his fraternity back to my room in the Choates on cloud nine.

    At once boastful, nostalgic, hopeful and naive…

    Also filed under “This is why Women in Finance are a Bad Idea”…

    https://defy.vc/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Madison-Headshot_007-crop-1-1024×1024.jpg

  58. Lockdown lay report

    So I’ve been chatting to a customer and dealing with her remotely via WhatsApp bc lockdown.

    Seen her picture on WhatsApp and she’s cute. She’s seen my picture. We’re chatting, she’s working – a nurse.. but bored etc…

    So I say: the beach is open and so are a few of the bars for take away. A few of us are going down if you fancy.

    Her: what time and where?

    Me: X o’clock at Y bar

    Her: good see you then

    Suns shining and it’s warm so I walk down in shirt sleeves but by the time I get there it’s howling a huge gale etc..

    She arrives, and we go to bar for take away drinks, she insists on buying drinks bc she’s “mucked me about” with work. I say thanks and accept.

    Hang out on beech in a sheltered position in howling gale until I say: this is no fun, come back and I’ll cook.

    She says: ok

    She drives back to my place bringing unfinished beer back in the car.

    Park up at my place and I install her in kitchen at breakfast bar which I cook the other side of.

    I’m preparing dough etc.. and chopping up stuff and we eat pizza laughing and joking.

    I just move in straight for the kill and we get a hot make out. I pick her up and carry her to the bed where we continue but I get a wall with the jeans coming off.

    She’s like “no way I’m taking these off tonight”

    I know there’s a thing about LMR but I never usually get it and when I do, I don’t push through it. So I say “no worries” and we keep making out.

    She heads back and we’re texting back and forth..

    This is a bit of it.

    https://imgur.com/a/xOzc0t6

    It finally turns into her coming over again tonight, I’m going to cook but we both know she’s coming over to bang.

    So she turns up perfectly presented in summer dress etc.. I open the door to her and kiss to say hello and push into the make out which she responds to. The front door is still open, she’s literally just got through it.

    We continue to make out and I take her by the hand and lead her to the bedroom.

    She says something like “oh we’re not eating yet”

    I say “no” and put her on the bed.. the rest is history.

    Prior to the bang the only two words I’d said to her were “hello” and “no”.

    Finish and then I cook and we eat and we chat then go back to bed again.

    On the second lay Im beginning to get into her and find out how she likes sex. I won’t go into detail except that I’ve realised something I hadn’t before and that’s they can shit test during sex.. which had never occurred to me before.

    During sex I tell her to do xyz to me.

    She says: “say please” (shit test) – she really really did not want to be able to push me around in bed.

    There’s a bit more to it but basically I say: “No. Do as your told.”

    And she does do as she’s told and asks how I want it done. Then she does it how I want it done.

  59. @Palma

    (upselling much? lol)

    Nice one. Girl expects a cool experienced guy and gets exactly what it says on the tin.

    She’s like “no way I’m taking these off tonight”

    Lol I know the line.

    It’s the 30+ age group. “No sex on the first date”, “I’m not like that” etc.

    Even funnier when they do all the pornstar stuff but still “these are not coming off”… lol

    They want the D and yet they want to preserve the self-image and see how you handle the wall they put up at the same time. I suspect they may even cockblock themselves by wearing non-sexy underwear or not shaving (can’t trust themselves in the moment lol) but I’ve never tested this.

    Then they show up for the second round and bam! no resistance.

    If you think about it, it’s a perfect AF/BB litmus test. “This is definitely not happening, I’m not like that, he’ll show his true colors”. She’s past the wall and the clock is ticking so the hamster needs to be sure… can’t be tricked by a sheep in a wolf’s clothing.

    I was thinking that maybe this could be disarmed by fractionation, time compression and multiple venues (making it feel like more than one date and that you’ve been through more together), but I’ve never come around to testing it. Your way is just simple, cool and effective.

  60. Great story Palma. What strikes me is the Pacing and Frame you held, naturally.

    Good to hear.

    It also seems you were in a better wheel-house for you at the beach and in your apartment better than in a busy bar because of the corona conditions. Once again, it goes to the pacing of the interaction.

    Thanks for calling me on the telephone earlier that day, too. I appreciated the conversation.

    As an aside, I chuckle out loud watching an interview with Perry Farrell in 1991. It sounds like the interviewer is Kurt Loder. It is a good example of Pacing and Frame. It was just short of Farrell’s 32nd birthday. It’s a good study in demeanor. Notice how he slows the pacing of the conversation. An often redirects. And leads. Rather than look at PUA videos it is very instructive for any one here to see his conversation skills. It’s worth a listen, but also watching his facial body language (even watching it without the audio is interesting…)

    He’s obviously half stoned, but has very good skills at carrying himself in a sneaky-fucker way of conversing. I have buddies like that. And what jumps out is that conversation skills are born out of reference experiences (10 years of being in a band…) It’s a very good study. It is a six part interview, each part 7-10 minutes. Parts 2-6 should be alongside on YouTube.

    https://youtu.be/YJ2AIInjKzs

  61. Palma

    Love in the time of Corona. Touches the heart…

    IRL

    Pure Evil uses this model on purpose, with him throttling down at any LMR because he doesn’t want anything other than full experience. Same demo. Flip side is after date two with nothing most are scratched off the list pronto. Makes sense. There is too much focus on SNL although I will agree it’s the best learning.

    Question – Palma how would you have handled the situation if she gave you The Heisman and said “slow down big boy I need dinner first”?

  62. One thing I noticed in Palma’s field report was a even-flow of Mystery method. Attraction-Comfort-Seduction.

    Despite Palma’s former self acknowledged non-recognition of the middle stage–comfort, he aced that stage in this situation. Well done.

    -“Hang out on beech in a sheltered position in howling gale until I say: this is no fun, come back and I’ll cook.”

    -“…and I install her in kitchen at breakfast bar which I cook the other side of. I’m preparing dough etc.. and chopping up stuff and we eat pizza laughing and joking.”-

    -“I know there’s a thing about LMR but I never usually get it and when I do, I don’t push through it. So I say “no worries” and we keep making out.”

    The text string: respected that she was self concious about not having shaved legs and nether regions in the time of corona. That gave her comfort.

    Nice Mystery Method sequence. With adherence to the middle stage.

  63. @IRL

    “I was thinking that maybe this could be disarmed by fractionation, time compression and multiple venues (making it feel like more than one date and that you’ve been through more together), but I’ve never come around to testing it.”

    It can and I usually do this which has resulted in FNL’s without any problem but there was nowhere to go on date 1 bc it’s all shut.

    @SJF

    “It also seems you were in a better wheel-house for you at the beach and in your apartment better than in a busy bar because of the corona conditions.”

    Busy bar? What’s one of those? Lol!

    @Sentient

    “Question – Palma how would you have handled the situation if she gave you The Heisman and said “slow down big boy I need dinner first”?”

    Had to google Heisman.. you mean she pushed me away hard right?

    Well what you’re talking about is her giving a condition for the sex and I wouldn’t play that game so in the first instance I’d have tickled her and ignored it and continued as usual.

    If that didn’t result in the sex and she’d pushed away even harder then I wouldn’t have pushed it physically. If I didn’t think I could turn it then I’d actually have cooked dinner but I wouldn’t have escalated. I’d have pulled away. She could wait to next time / or never.

    In the past when I’ve pulled away completely like that they end up escalating on me. Even then a couple of times I refused the sex saying I needed an early night and that really spun her hamster up looking back.

    In the meantime I’m doing a few days work with old friend (with EEGF) up at Camp David installing scaffolding inside the house and doing stuff.

    So I’m getting a snack and cofvefee in the kitchen (damn the auto correct has corrected to cofvefee 😂😂😂) and EEGF wanders in and says “oh you’re back! How have you been?” small talk blah blah… how bored she is.. this is shit etc…

    Looks at me big puppy dog eyes and says “how long have we got you for?”

    Me: “it’s just a couple of days and I’m going back tonight”

    Her: “you not staying?”

    Me: “There’s nothing on the roads and I want my own bed”

  64. Palma

    Not sure how the reply to and edits function now?

    Had to google Heisman.. you mean she pushed me away hard right?

    Well what you’re talking about is her giving a condition for the sex and I wouldn’t play that game so in the first instance I’d have tickled her and ignored it and continued as usual.

    If that didn’t result in the sex and she’d pushed away even harder then I wouldn’t have pushed it physically. If I didn’t think I could turn it then I’d actually have cooked dinner but I wouldn’t have escalated. I’d have pulled away. She could wait to next time / or never.

    In the past when I’ve pulled away completely like that they end up escalating on me. Even then a couple of times I refused the sex saying I needed an early night and that really spun her hamster up looking back.

    And that is textbook… Roll off, restart sequence and cat string theory in action.

    Be careful with EEGF, Corona has made them much more bold.

  65. @Sentient

    No idea how you get paragraphs either… I’ll just try more line spaces …

    So if she’d pushed me away and I ended up cooking then I wouldn’t have banged her on the same night. I’d have refused her. We’d have to have gone round again and she’d have to put out without me doing something for it.

    I wouldn’t do “cook to play” in that scenario.

    I would do “cook to play” when I’m cooking as a straight escalation having bought her back under my terms.

    It’s a subtle difference, but one is her putting a condition on sex (cook first then I’ll give you sex) and the other is me DHVing by cooking and part of the seduction.

  66. @Sentient

    “But they feel like total sluts in the morning and they blow out..”

    So on the above escalation she got put to the mattress after walking through the door and then we hit the kitchen and I cooked again.

    Then we went to chill and Netflix which didn’t last long bc she was groping.

    So I picked her up and carried her back to the bedroom.

    Round 2 was when the “proper sex” started. Me coaxing it out of her and giving her what she really wanted.

    After she said “I can’t believe the language I was using”

    I said: “you can say anything in the bedroom, what goes on in here stays in here, outside is different”

    I’ve got another derivative of that which is “my bedroom my rules” incidentally thats any bedroom were in, even hers. It’s my rules.

  67. Errrr would somebody tell me what I’m missing with this Twitter / Trump spat?

    Surely the bearded gimp doesn’t really live in an echo chamber that big that he thinks he can beat the ole cofvefee fuelled street fighter does he?

    Surely the FBI or something are just gonna walk in and arrest the bearded one on restricting free speech is something? That’s one of the amendments right?

  68. @PalmaSailor

    props on the FR…

    @HABD

    Listening to this:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VnPS0qx_Iuo

    He’s laying out a war footing isn’t he..

    yep… but it’s just another step in the process…

    we’ve actually been at war since before the election in 2016… (it’s china ccp/dnc/obama cabal/liberal useful idiots against the forces for good…lol)

    it just takes some folks a bit longer to catch on…lol… but all this sh*t plays out according to the universal playbook… just like it has to… nothing new under the sun…

    this is just the next step up the escalation ladder… and not the good one by dicarlo…lol

    i think his time-table got moved up a bit… (i was expecting something like this later this summer)…

    it had to be done though, bc it’s part of the process… = calling out the list of grievances that the ‘other side’ has inflicted upon ‘us’ = the good guys (like the declaration of independence…)… and why we need to address THAT sh*t to stay safe into the future… and it’s also about defining the players… = who is on OUR side… = ‘us’… and who is on the other side… = ‘them’…

    kind of like expelling diplomats from a ‘non-neutral, non-ally’…but not the ‘actual other country’…

    it’s an escalation…

    but with the murder in minneapolis and the dnc agent provocateurs (ie dirty cops dressed like antifa) smashing windows and burning sh*t down there… he was forced into it…

    (note – the locals don’t want their local stores burned out… bc they are smart enough to understand they won’t be able to buy from there anymore… = food desert… it’s all those dudes from the outside (paid by soros) or the local cops (on orders) that actually burn and smash sh*t… and then SOME locals start looting… but it’s not really most people doing that… although the dnc propaganda machine would having you believe otherwise…lol… it’s just part of the spin…

    OR trump just saw an opportunity to slip it into the news cycle… and to slip THAT in while the dnc propaganda arm is busy trying to ramp a race war was brilliant…lol…

    bc that way the media can’t harp on it for the next couple of weeks without diluting their race war rhetoric…lol… and which they would have done (absent the ‘convenient’ (lol) ‘race’ rioting) to keep the news cycle focus off the ‘declassification’ of docs about obamagate…

    which this race-baiting murder actually accomplished quite well…lol… hmmm, interesting how that works, isn’t it?…lol

    that cop executed that black dude… (apparently, they actually knew each other and worked at the same club for years)… AND in full view of the cameras… AND i read the county prosecutor has already stated he is not going to prosecute bc ‘other factors’…lol… i wonder if he got a call from hillary?… or obama?…lol…

    why they killed that dude could be any number of reasons… but most likely to basically knock over the chess board bc they were losing sooo hard…lol…

    and probably on orders from dnc/obama… through the police union/dnc city cabal… or maybe senator amy…lol…but not really kidding… bc she was getting aced out of VP consideration by biden focusing on ‘black’ female…

    and now, while on the surface, it looks bad for her bc she didn’t prosecute chauvin for his prior killing (which likely gave her leverage on him…) she might have gotten a ‘deal’ out of the current killing… whether it was VP or not, we’ll have to wait to see… but she was positioned to offer that (race-baiting killing) as an option…

    and chauvin likely won’t even get a slap on the wrist… AND he’ll get re-hired with back-pay

    (and whatever bonus/black bag payoff… or maybe he just ‘feels bad’ and suicides himself with two shots to the back of his head… with a nail gun…lol)

    once the ‘city’ (really all just deep state political operatives) makes

    ‘a deal to bring some resolution/closure to this stricken community…’

    no, that doesn’t make sense…lol… but there you go…

    stay safe… and stock more food…

    good luck!

  69. “Surely the bearded gimp doesn’t really live in an echo chamber that big that he thinks he can beat the ole cofvefee fuelled street fighter does he?”

    Yes.

    And the line he stepped over this time wasn’t merely restriction of speech, or promoting an opposing view:

    He embedded a “fact checking” link in, that is to say he altered, Trump’s original tweet.

  70. PalmaSailor
    Errrr would somebody tell me what I’m missing with this Twitter / Trump spat?

    Sure:

    Section 230(c) of the Communications Decency Act also known as 47 U.S.C. 230(c)

    Obvious!

  71. Saber rattling rattling louder Palma. Just wait till September… Unfortunately if Trump wins I think he doesn’t get sworn in. Going to be crazy second half of the year.

  72. @HABD

    I’m gonna have to check up on US news. But I only get it via zero hedge – and I don’t even believe them
    most of the time.

    I am just astonished that anyone can change the statement of a sitting president without getting A visit from the men in Black. I wonder if he’s just totally deranged.

    I only follow a handful of news outlets and our best political one is this one (mainly because of the unmoderated comments)

    https://order-order.com

    The media here is publishing almost nothing unless it involves trying to derail BREXIT. They’re at the point of foaming at the mouth over it. They’re targeting anyone involved in making it actually happen and it’s degenerated into hysterical smearing.

    This guy was instrumental in concocting the “evidence” leading to the war in Iraq.. I mean he was basically Blair’s No.1 advisor – just look at him:

    Now look at this lefty liberal Pro remain journalist activist. She just can’t let it drop to the point where BJ has called a halt to anyone answering her “questions”

    https://mobile.twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1266372786735345664

    She’s getting absolutely slaughtered by her own twitter feed and has taken “time out” (re calibrated her SSRI meds lol… stroke her cat etc..)

    I’ve never seen “politics” like it… it’s almost as if when we finally get Brexit done some stuff is gonna come out of the closet that will these these elites at the mercy of a lynching and they’re petrified….

    I honestly think we’re going to start to see lefty metropolitan elite types jumping off roofs soon. Or is that just wishful thinking.. lol..

    Surely nothing illicit could surface… surely not…

  73. @kfg

    “Yes.
    And the line he stepped over this time wasn’t merely restriction of speech, or promoting an opposing view:
    He embedded a “fact checking” link in, that is to say he altered, Trump’s original tweet.”
    .
    .
    This has just gotta play into the Donald’s hands… what with the rioting I’m sure he’s gonna have to intervene in Twatter quicksharp in the interests of national security..

  74. @Anonymous Reader

    “Sure:
    Section 230(c) of the Communications Decency Act also known as 47 U.S.C. 230(c)
    Obvious!”

    I’ll put that on the list for bed time reading..

  75. “This has just gotta play into the Donald’s hands… ”

    Once Twitter is stripped of common carrier immunity, all he has to do is sit back and watch as every prosecutor and civil lawyer in the known universe picks them apart. Wherever Dorsey can be shown to have been part of the decision chain he can be targeted personally as well.

    Twitter can only exist as such because they only provide infrastructure. They are not the publisher of what appears on Twitter, each individual poster is, because Twitter is not part of the decision chain.

    But when they exert editorial control, what appears on Twitter is a result of their overt decision and they become the publisher, and thus legally liable.

    Dorsey thought he was being clever by embedding a link instead of deleting the post. That way he couldn’t be accused of censoring of the President of the United States, but by taking editorial control of the post itself he still nuked any claim of only being its carrier.

  76. @kfg

    You really would have thought the bearded one would have had better lawyers wouldn’t you.

    Time to short twatter stock perhaps

  77. @Sentient

    There’s only so much shit you consume and I’ve got my plate full over here..
    .
    After a point there’s more to life.

  78. @Sentient

    Interesting in the aftermath of last weeks session, nurse said “god I smell of sex, and the room smells of sex”
    .
    Now while it did, it wasn’t something I would have commented on, and it wouldn’t have registered with me. But to her it was overt.
    .
    I wonder to what extent that would change the subconscious behaviour of another woman bought into that environment. The chemical proof of pre selection if you will.
    .
    If I get the chance over the weekend I’ll try and get another woman back before I swap out the bed clothes and see how that plays out.
    .
    Either that or wear the same clothes up to Camp David next week and see how EEGF acts.. (safe experiment as the house is full – relatively)

  79. Reposting all of Thin Man’s Guide for posterity, some NextASF links down…

    Worth a read. Lot of great tacticts and a lot of chess not checkers thinking.

    Long post…

    The Thin Man’s Over 38 Seduction

    Before I get to what works for me I have a few observations that I think put the bullet points below in appropriate context. I have linked some key posts at various points, read the links they are helpful in making the points I am trying to make here. This thread started when I commented on a filed report (Linked here) where Tech was put off by a wave of qualification shit testing that I think is pretty instructive… and illustrates how this stuff works in a real world way.

    Consistent personal brand matters: This is a concept I adapted from Arden Leigh’s book The New Rules of Attraction. She was speaking to a female audience but the concept is universal. The basic Idea is that your dress, occupation, grooming, mode of transportation, interior decor, accent, fragrance, and choices of entertainment should send a consistent message. My own brand is very urbane, smooth, luxurious, creative with out being artsy, a mature man with great haircut, and a well cut jacket that hides a stealth hedonist. Kant uses a dark, poetic/artistic, mysterious brand to great effect. It is not what your brand is, it is that it is consistent. women want to be with intriguing men with something going on in their life… Be intriguing!

    Women in their 30s are very different in their relations with men than women in their 40s. This is just biology… The biological clock daddy hunter woman vs. the premenopausal “I just want to be me” woman;” they have very different imperatives… The other major variable is divorced women who have been there and done that vs. the never married women who’s inner Disney princess is still kind of intact. The below is for a single woman over 40+/- or or a divorced woman over 37+/-… I think an over 33 single, childless, woman with her baby clock ticking hard is a different creature entirely. So in my experience this is not an over 33 technique so much as an over 37-40 technique.

    There are two kinds of meets in mature woman game and they have completely different time tables. There are Opportunistic meets (fast) and Mechanistic meets (slower.) Opportunistic meets are when you find a woman on the train, in an airport or in the elevator. You are not really hunting just being a sexually open attractive male presence in the world, you feel a spark and instadate right then and there. Opportunistic meets are often SNLs. Mechanistic meets are conscious premeditated hunting situations that are scheduled in advance… The way I do them a day 2 is usually necessary… I do both kinds of meets.

    Below is a mini field report from late last summer that illustrates how the principals enumerated below are employed more quickly. The goal in an opportunistic day one or a Mechanistic day 2 in to create a flow to your bed that seems spontaneous but was actually pretty planed in advance. Part of the way this is accomplished is to create a context where she does not feel the need to try to be in charge. I don’t let her ask me for anything, because I don’t want her directing the activity… Deep down she does not want this either. I don’t want her up in her head, I don’t want to break the trance with a discussion of a bar tab, I don’t want her looking at the taxi meter… I want her to feel girly and feminine, like she is just being smoothly pulled along… No decisions necessary.

    Opportunistic Method Example Below:

    Opportunistic Meet: I Sat next to a woman on the Acela late afternoon… Typical NY-8 conservative well-dressed vaguely Middle Eastern features (turned out she was half Lebanese.) I smiled light eye flirted and proceeded to read the Times. I noticed she was off and on with OKC on her phone most of the ride. As we neared NY I asked if she was trying to get a date on OKC and if it worked for her… Instant speech, “guys suck, they are all animals, dick for brains morons etc…” Perfect! I listened patiently to her shit test… Told her the problem was her taste in guys and that she was looking for them online… I told her it was much better to just let a good looking man just find her on Amtrak. I took her to dinner straight from Penn Station. I asked if she liked beef, “Great I know a place.” And then just took her to a quiet private side street restaurant (with great logistics) without further explanation. “Do you mind if I order…” I order both dinners…(Important to gently question while you do this… I’d like to start with the oysters… Then the fillet for you and the rib eye for me?) During dinner I get the emotional life story…Broken engagement with boss ha… She broke it though, because he was an indecisive AFC that preferred fantasy football to seducing women. I talked about how I was a different kind of man… I initiated a conversation more or less about seduction… secret society… Set my non-monogamous frame. She sub-communicated a strong, I want to be swept away with passion vibe (see womans sexual scenarios below)… When dinner was over I asked if she would like to come up to my apartment and have a cigar on the terrace. She had mentioned she liked them during our conversation… She ended up having the cigar with me at 2AM while wearing only my Kimono after an evening of forceful sex.

    Thin Man’s Mechanistic Method for Mature Seduction:

    The advantage of the Mechanistic mode is it allows for organized sarging. I sarge every Tuesday morning from 7:15 AM to 10:30 AM. I have a weekly networking breakfast where I pull woman.

    If I am doing a mechanistic meet, I start in a non-sexual situation. I find the problem with a Tinder meet is it is sexually loaded… Everybody knows what you are doing there… Which creates self-consciousness and ASD. That said If online works for you I still think The named stages in bold below stages below can be adapted to your game. I sarge at business networking breakfasts, or a professional continuing education seminars, or a community board meeting or the like… You want her board… Women are less comfortable with boredom then men are. Introduce yourself and then isolate immediately. ASD is a form of self-consciousness… People are much less self-conscious when they are not in a group setting. I view Isolation as having 2 stages one (day 1 isolation) is for emotional connection, the other (day 2 isolation is for sex.)

    Here is what I do to approach and day 1 isolate:
    For me one of the ways to control AA is to consciously engineer the context of the approach. I usually approach women at professional business breakfasts, or conferences, or sometimes on train or plane. In other words I approach women who are not busy doing something else and are maybe a bit board, and who are already in a situation where striking up a conversation with a complete stranger is natural and expected. I usually say pretty much the same things the same way and they are pretty mundane openers. At a morning networking meeting, I amuse myself, deciding who I am going to pull and then wait for the moment at the end of the formal part of the meeting when everybody stands up, but before they start talking. I walk over to the woman and say why don’t we get out of here and get some real breakfast (the buffets at these meetings are usually stale and nasty) and you can tell me about… insert whatever business they are in or company they are from… She usually says yes if she is free because breakfast is non threatening.

    Have rock solid logistics at all times… Mature women get up in their heads very fast, and have an instinct to take charge if you hesitate… If you seem at all indecisive about what you are going to do next she will take charge and your frame is damaged. I know in advance where I am going to isolate. Gently take charge, do not ask her what she wants to do. Once she comes with you she is entering your world… This is part of her sexual script give it to her. Where you go needs to be interesting and congruent with your personal brand …I make it my business to know all of the good hotel breakfasts in Manhattan. I pick one close, and the minute we hit the sidewalk I tell her I know a good place and we are going there… Under no circumstances do I ask her where she would like to go. All of the places I use for this purpose are private, quiet and not crowded.
    Be verbal but not physical… Kino too soon with a mature woman and you will blow out… Women love talk… Talk… If she touches you first… It’s On… My game is extremely verbal I try to speak quietly in a low voice with allot of eye contact… I try to use an almost a hypnotic cadence. I use rich descriptions, colors, textures flavors and gentle self-deprecating humor.
    Get Her Talking: When we sit down I simply hand her my business card and of course she hands me hers, by doing this I get her number email etc… Smoothly. I wait until we have ordered and then always ask the same thing, how did you get into…insert whatever business they are in. Career stories are life stories so soon enough you hear about their education, then where they have lived, then exes, or divorces, and families. The transition to relationship talk from business talk is natural. Having a sober personal conversation where intimacies are revealed in a quiet and plush setting causes the social defenses to come down.
    The Shit Test: Expect to be potentially shit tested sometimes pretty hard… Some times more lightly This is an IOI and is good. This often comes in the form of a speech that goes like this,” men suck, they are all dick for brains apes, frat boy rapists, or worse fat Dockers wearing losers who care more about X-box then pussy, philandering husbands, lying SOBs. Evil Bosses etc…” The woman’s lifestyle magazines have practically pre-written the script… This is not drama, or about you, or anything but a test of your frame. I usually pass it by being calm firm but not un-sympathetic and totally non-defensive. I laugh gently… and poke fun at her attitude to polarize her. Be forceful but careful here, there is a fine line between sexy and sexist. Be sensitive to her level of polarization and bring her back to you and create intimacy and comfort by offering something true relevant and intimate about yourself.

    When a woman starts telling me what is wrong with men in general I get very excited! This is giving you an opportunity to show that you can handle her emotions… Full grown mature woman are complicated creatures most man can’t handle them… The women know this and hate it… and come to lose respect/attraction for men because of it. This is one of the reasons so many people get divorced in their late thirties and early forties. She wants to know if you can calmly pass her shit tests. If you can, it is a huge demonstration of value… Most guys are not good at this, it is a mark of distinction.

    The emotional connection: If you pass the shit test this is where she opens emotionally, because you have shown you can handle her emotions. This is it the secret sauce of middle age seduction… In Tech’s filed report he saw her sadness… She let him see it, she almost cried… If a woman cries about her inner pain in your presence it is a vast act of trust. Older woman have scar tissue its what makes them sexy. The African American Poet Carl Winslow wrote a poem I love about psychological scars and mature sex. Since ASD and LMR are related to trust. “Do I really trust you with the most sensitive, private, and delicate parts of myself or not?” When a woman trusts you enough to remove her social mask and starts to reveal her inner self, it is a form of disrobing. It is, in my opinion, the real first rung of the escalation ladder. If you get to this stage of the seduction, read her carefully, the hook point should be evident. As part of the exchange of intimacies I reveal something lightly sexual which generally leads to sex talk. The woman, who does not think she is on a date… Its breakfast who the hell dates at breakfast… realizes that she is aroused by the conversation and attracted to the man across the table from her, and it comes as a surprise. I have a theory, let me know what you think of it, (LG, Present help me out here) that the powerful moment in a seduction works differently for men and women… For a woman the powerful moment is when she feels her own attraction for the man, whereas for men it is when he feels her attraction for him.
    Listen for the sexual sub-communication after the emotional opening: Women’s sexuality differs from ours because it highly scenario oriented. Its why they read spicy novels and like porn with a plot. When a woman is emotionally open to you like in stage 7 she will likely begin to reveal her inner scenario preference. Either through words or actions… In the OP it was the very wifey soup making and serving that was the tell… The OP had a c. girl. Women’s sexual fantasies are as individual as finger prints but I think there are 3 basic flavors and it is helps to keep the flavors in mind so you know what you are looking for. If you can ID the woman’s main scenario, most woman have them all to some extent, (50 shades of grey was so successful because it combined all 3) and deliver some of it to her. It is a kind of seductive gift. When bridging to the day 2 it is great to sub-communicate her scenario back to her. Once you are at the second isolation knowing her scenario helps you calibrate:

    a. Pretty Pretty Princess- This is where the man takes charge by pampering the woman… and buying her gifts. It is why the part of Pretty Woman where Richard Gere buys the dresses for Julia Roberts is sexy to women. (Please note I am not recommending trying to bribe sex out of women with gifts!)

    b. Over Come with Passion-We just could not help ourselves and tore each other’s cloths off… We were like animals it just happened… Even if it was not supposed to… Stranger fantasy is in this category… Think Angelina Jolie and Antonio Banderas in Original Sin.

    c. Submission- Bondage, domination, rape and coercion fantasies etc… Mickey Roark and Kim Bassenger in 9 ½ Weeks.

    Bounce and decide if it is an SNL or a day 2 situation : I usually bounce at this point. I tell her it is getting late and ask her where she is going next. Unless it is grossly out of my way I offer her drop her on the way to my office. I Uber myself a black car…hailing a grungy taxi wrecks the vibe… Hotels always have a covered entry so we can go straight from our table, to the lobby, to the car without really touching the street. I always open the door and put my hand on her waist or back as she gets in, and then let our legs brush while we sit in the car. The car is about kino… I ask about her earrings and touch her hair, or ask about her shoes and touch her calf etc… When we are almost to her destination, I either escalate… Or I tell her I enjoyed our ‘conversation’ and suggest we meet up after work some time without making a definite plan.

    If I have done it right she gets out of the car into the bustle and noise of a New York morning and the contrast to the lush game is jarring… She thinks wow, “I just accidentally happened across the most interesting and attractive guy.” And I have set up my bridge to a day 2 before 10:00 AM… Also my breakfast and car were tax deductible. (subtract 1/3 of the cost BD )

    The Woman Cloud:The goal of doing Day 1s, emotionally connecting and ejecting, is not to quickly close a day 2 as much as it is to have a cloud of potential day 2 women from which you can pull when you feel like it… I know this is contrary to accepted wisdom… But it is not the friend zone. If you want to screen a little this is the place to do it. You are under no obligation to call for a day 2.

    10a. The Day 2: For a day 2 call her or send an email… I don’t use text for this, and say… “I enjoyed talking with you last X day at breakfast. I am going to X at 7:00 today for a drink and dinner. Would you like to join me and continue the conversation?” I prefer to call because if she can’t make it, I can just call a different woman in the woman cloud. I always call in the early afternoon always on a week day and always set the date for that evening. Do not give them time to think. Mature women have complicated lives and get up in their heads fast… In her head leads to anxiousness, which leads to ASD. Plan the date… Busy woman hate it when they have to make the decisions… Very AFC. I go someplace small and quiet that is walking distance to my apartment. Tell them where to meet you have and your reason to bring them to your apartment already in mind. Show up 10minutes early order a drink at the bar and give your credit card to the waiter. Tell him to just bring the bill to sign at the end of the meal, because you don’t like to argue with a lady over the bill. (The places I go regularly all already know my habits in this regard) She should find you at the bar… Don’t make her wait and don’t start needy texting if she is late. Once at dinner reestablish the emotional tone from the day one. Chances are she will do this herself without much prompting. Just verbally create a mental bridge back to that conversation by asking about something she spoke about. I position my frame so that it is giving her some of her seductive scenario. Compliment her on her emotional depth… If she is an 8-9+ this is critical…. Never complement a woman’s looks unless she is almost nude… And reveal something intimate. Escalate to relationship talk and sex talk with light kino. Linger over dinner 2-1/2 hours is fine. If the conversation is good this should be easy. Catch the waiter’s eye and just sign the check as pre-arranged. This makes getting up and changing venue very fast… Transitions need to be quick to keep her out of her head. Say let’s have one more drink… and then take her to your apartment which should be very close. Wall smash kiss on the way if it feels right. Interior décor matters as much as grooming for the mature woman. My apartment is not large but it is decorated in a masculine and sexy style. It is your world… It should be exciting… and mature. Your decorating choices and menu choices should be consistent with your brand.

    10b. Alternate day 2: I don’t do this anymore because cooking in an NYC apartment is awkward and I don’t bring new woman to my country house anymore as it violates discretion with my OLTR. That said I used to do this often and it works very well and is low cost. I am a very good cook… So I would often talk about food entertaining and meals I have made or enjoyed. During the day 1. She would usually be intrigued by this and say something non-seriousness like, “I wish I was having dinner at your house.” to which I say, “you could some time.” The 10b pitch is like the 10a in that you call same day early afternoon, but it works great on a Sunday… You say I am making X (it is very good if it was the exact dish you spoke about at the day 1) and I realized that I am going to have way too much for just myself. Come over to my place at 6:30 and have some dinner. Keep it very light… Once she is at your place you can escalate more quickly then in step 11 below. Often dinner happens after the sex in this situation. When she arrives try to take as much of her clothing as you can. Shoes jacket sweater… Hang them up!

    I make brazed dishes in the oven because they are hard to over cook and it creates a good smell in the house. Be almost done cooking by the time she arrives the Oven is just on warm at this point… She should see you cook a little but not much. Have wine and nuts, olives and cheese out. Mix a cocktail… Make it strong she is not driving tonight. Have slow dance music on in the kitchen… I use Motown or classic Swing Jazz. Pour the wine eat a few nuts. Bridge to the emotional connection from the day one, while drinking the cocktail and lightly cooking (tossing a salad or something.) DO NOT LET HER HELP… SHE WILL OFFER… Tell her where to sit… I have stools in my country kitchen for this… Vibe with the sexual scenario detected on the day 1. If she is a Princess, feed her a bite playfully off of a spoon. If she is a passion woman do the same with your fingers and blow on it first… If she is a submissive make her sit on the stool,” where I can look at you,” and eye fuck her while you taste the dish with your fingers. As long as you are a good host the buying temp should start to rise. Ask her to dance… Women love to dance in the kitchen. Escalate… Escalate… Escalate… Eat dinner afterwards… Let her ware her panties and one of your shirts…

    SEX: Calibrate the final escalation to her seduction scenario which should be more fleshed out by now. If she is a Pretty Pretty Princes I offer her the pair of Chinese house slippers and the kimono I keep for this purpose… I put it on her and then start with a slow kiss while I tie the belt… If she is an overcome by passion girl I just wall smash in the entry with my fist in her hair. If she is a submissive I tell her what to do… Go sit on that stool so that I can look at you… etc… Undress a PPP slowly. If she is an OBP rip her bottoms off and fuck her half dressed alternating harder and softer. Stop in the middle with your cock half in hold her hair in your fist, look her in the eyes and then plunge… Let her know you own her. If she is a SUB ask her to undress for you… Be a little aloof. Show her that she turns you on… Let her see her how nakedness get you erect. Ask her to go down on you first… Then eat her… Withhold your cock a bit… use her for your pleasure.

  80. “The chemical proof of pre selection if you will. . If I get the chance over the weekend I’ll try and get another woman back before I swap out the bed clothes . . . ”

    Reminds me of a comment I once posted on another forum. It went something like this:

    If a woman starts leaving things around your place, put your foot down and enforce your boundaries. Tell her she can’t do that, but what she can do is leave a small overnight bag on the closet shelf.

    Just make sure there are two others already there when you show her where to put it.

  81. @Sentient
    .
    Firstly 40+ women for me are more or less on demand. I rarely drop one if I can get her in conversation for any period of time. I think it’s called “deep dive”. And I think that means having a proper intellectual conversation about a proper topic. Of course you have to take the piss and flirt etc..
    .
    I did read thin man and this bit stood out to me:
    .
    “Full grown mature woman are complicated creatures most man can’t handle them… The women know this and hate it… and come to lose respect/attraction for men because of it. This is one of the reasons so many people get divorced in their late thirties and early forties. She wants to know if you can calmly pass her shit tests. If you can, it is a huge demonstration of value… Most guys are not good at this, it is a mark of distinction.”
    .
    He’s right, there are a lot of chumps out there.
    .
    I don’t actually try to find what their fantasy is until I get them in bed bc I think it’s fraught with risk. The Nurse is a C, but if you tried to deal with that in conversation or gave any hint to it prior you’d be in serious risk of blowing it bc she won’t admit it until she trusts you after intimacy. Can you imagine the risk from her point of view in letting some chump know she’s it only a C – but on the hard right extreme of THAT curve?
    .
    You can understand it, she wants desperately to be dominated and “hurt” but she doesn’t trust you can handle that without really hurting her until she knows you a bit better. It’s a narrow line she can’t risk because some inexperienced uncalibrated arsehole could do her some serious damage.
    .
    Once you’ve actually got P in V it’s easy enough to get hold of her hair and depending on how she responds to that you find out what you’re dealing with. By the end of session 2 you’re in no mistake because she’s grabbing you by the throat which is her giving you guidelines of what she wants without saying it. It’s projection.
    .
    Then in normal communication I don’t give anything sexual. It’s as if that stuff in the bedroom doesn’t happen. If she wants that she has to come here – to the bedroom.
    .

    https://imgur.com/a/mveIUra

    .
    ** For the record she’s also taller than me.
    .
    I’ve been off the age appropriate women thing for at least a year as I’ve refused to approach them properly in favour of beating myself up to get it right with younger women.
    .
    However, I’m gonna dock back in temporarily and multi task by doing both.. lol.
    .
    The over 40 stuff is basically “on demand” if I can get them in a conversation and thereafter in my kitchen.
    .
    I wanted to replicate that with younger but that’s still a work in progress. Though I think one day it will click.
    .
    I’m still making mistakes.. for instance I’ve been talking to one for months and yesterday i was walking to the beach and she walked by – we had a chat – and I said “I’m heading down for beer on the beach if you’re coming” – she declined.. then it occurred to me.. duh.. I issued an unearned IOI.. shit.. yeah I did neg her LAST time I saw her, but I have to start AGAIN this time I’ve seen her with a NEG, DHV, compliance hoop etc..
    .
    I’m just so programmed into my old ways I’m just not following the fucking rules..🙄
    .

  82. I’ve got a bit to add to thin man
    .
    “Full grown mature woman are complicated creatures most man can’t handle them…”
    .
    True. But.
    .
    The only thing I’d expand upon here is they’re not necessarily complicated, it’s the men that are allowing that.
    .
    The degree of complication will expand to fit the boundaries allowed for it. Ie your frame.
    .
    If you don’t impose your frame, hers will run wild and the complication will have no boundaries.
    .
    If you do impose your frame then the degree of her “complication” will be restricted to what you allow within your frame or boundaries.
    .
    Which is what she really wants.

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