Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

15,792 comments on “Field Reports

  1. Another Bumble one, TBH this woman is a 5 to 5.5 at best, I was actually trying to get her to disqualify herself with the “Hmmm, you wouldn’t be interested in meeting then” but she has seemed persistent. Her last line kind of threw me for a loop, it seems kind of over the top? I was thinking something like “Oh really, tell me more” or do I just go super direct with basically a “are you DTF”. I mean, truth be told, if she is a first date blowjob or bang, I’ll make the drive, but otherwise it is a waste of time and gas given that she is basically just an average late 40s looking woman.

    https://imgur.com/a/FaDSKvf

  2. Morpheus

    You are going backwards…

    I was kind of put off by the whole “Hey who is this” nonsense and “New phone” BS given that only a few days had passed between our original Sunday plans, and my ping text on Wednesday.

    Yeah butthurt is not going to help you progress…

    HINT – you should expect this kind of stuff and be ready to charmingly disarm and pass these shit tests… if it even was one… lol

    and YOU DO NOT USE ? OR ! ANYMORE, EVERRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

    Your job bucko is to handle the logistics… not hunt and peck and ask her what she wants to do where etc…

    You do that by having a PLAN and executing… Ping her for “window” then make statements… “Cool. Wednesday, XYZ @ 7:30PM”

    and DO NOT respond to her “OK” with a “sooper awesome!!!. See you then !!!!”

    I tried to give a smart ass answer to her question (referencing our Bumble discussion about action movies).

    So your boring rapport seeking dialogue about action movies was not memorable to her? huh? Who would have thought THAT… lol

    But you managed to set the meet… so go forth. Just don’t do this stuff any more…

    I mean, truth be told, if she is a first date blowjob or bang, I’ll make the drive, but otherwise it is a waste of time and gas given that she is basically just an average late 40s looking woman.

    Ahh I see. so what you want some kind of contract? lol wake the fuck up kimosabe.. Even if she had a notarized agreement that she would blow you upon contact it doesn’t mean she would… lolzlolzlozl

    AVOID contract thinking, especially this kind of covert contract stuff…

    The guy who “just gets it” understands the situation…

    “how is the dating going? Do you ever come to [fuck me?]”

    did you even watch the GGR speech? Are you man enough to take it?

  3. Palma, not sure what happened , I think my Dad went off the end after the divorce for a bit, coping with the no “relational equity” or any other equity for his vested interest in the family. They finally worked it out in the courts where he got us kids 1 day a month and some hollidays. He was remarried by this time to a widowed farm girl with 2 kids, a ready made family and living in a middle class neighborhood.
    The day he was to pick us up god forbid he be late as Mom would turn minutes into hours of calling him iresponsible,if he cared he would be ontime ,he doesn’t love you ect….

    My first guess is your son has to ask permission and he dreads the fallout every time he asks. The odds are his stepdad is bluepill to verry bone, he more than likely advocates for your son to visit with you but as your wife wears the pants this has a reverse psychological effect and starts an argument where your son feels he is the catalyst.
    Playing on this ^ hunch his first step is procrastination. he is hesitant to ask permission, not because of you rather he is a good kid and doesn’t want to cause friction.
    The abuse he could suffer sans stepdad would be just as bad.

    I was a hypergamy spoiler from the age of 3 and the physical/mental abuse was nonstop to the point of alienation from everyone, a sort of lower cast human if you will. I started running with the tough crowd at 12 , they accepted me and for the first time I was human. Mom couldn’t physically hit me by 13 as I was a street fighter and could catch her hand midswing and stopped her so she told me to get out. I never really went back and was on my own since. The final official emancipation didn’t come about till I was 15. She finally met husband number 2, a real adonis with a phd, blue pill , divorced afc. His family had money and title in the university system and he wouldn’t marry her unless I was emancipated.

  4. Morpheus

    I’m a damn good reason

    Three choices here…

    Easiest “Cool. Tuesday XYZ at 8”

    No hassle. Just confirm and move forward…

    Or

    A little more gamey… Challenge her slight shit test…

    “We’ll see how you play your cards. Tuesday, xyz at 8”

    Or a little more more gamey. Flip the script while challenging her and make her the chaser…

    “Slow your roll tiger. I need to be wined and dined first lol. Tuesday xyz at 8”

    Note about single moms and married women…

    Logistics are key
    She needs childcare and a place to do the deed. She will have short windows and stuff comes up with kids and husband’s. She will figure out the window you have to figure out the sex place. Don’t set anything up unless you have that worked out. Recommend hotel lobby bar.

  5. Palma

    re the texts

    Yeah looks like he gets caught in the middle, he is a hostage. slow roll things until he is out of high school. do what you can and don’t get too frustrated or blame him.

  6. Morpheus

    Let’s try this…

    Your new goal going into these convos is not to meet or bang. Your goal is to make an emotional impact.

    You will get points as follows:

    Her: lol / 1 point

    Her: OMG! / 2 points

    Her: you are so bad… / 3 points

    Her: Yes master. / 10 points

    Let’s run this up to 25 points total and reexamine…

  7. did you even watch the GGR speech? Are you man enough to take it?
     
    I did. Maybe I’m just not cut out for sales, and need to find alternative work lol.
     
     
    I appreciate the feedback, I do, but I’m considering at least temporarily taking a step back from basically pursuing women for sex and dating. The truth is I’ve got some other areas of my life that need some focusing, and this part is looking more like it is going to be much more effort and time than I anticipated for much less reward. For what? So I can get a sexual encounter appointment with a single Mom when the logistics work.
     
     
    It isn’t so much about establishing a covert contract, but simply Investment 101 of investment vs reward. Maybe I’m just having one of those days, but right now I feel like a lotta investment for barely marginal rate of return. In finance theory, the returns don’t cover the cost of capital.
     
     
     
    Maybe I just need to adjust to a new reality, and that is part of the process I don’t know. FWIW, this was my second wife early in our relationship before we both kind of let ourselves go physically:
     
     
    https://imgur.com/a/NmQ5Guq
     
     
     
    Most of the women I have been involved with in my 20s and 30s are comparable…and TBH I didn’t need perfect high level Game with 100% spot on flawless “emotion spiking” with zero “dog” talk to land them. And so at least right now since last relationship ended in April 2019, I guess I’m a bit frustrated that it feels like I am having to jump through 10x more hoops for women who are maybe half as good looking at best.
     
     
     
    FWIW, at the end of my second marriage in 2017, my life had basically imploded. I had let my physique and physical training go to hell, my career had been devastated, I had horrendous trading losses. It sent me to a very bad, dark place mentally and emotionally. I realize now I failed the “burden of performance” and counting on a woman to stand by when you are a “loser” is foolish and naive. That said, she got fat as hell herself, so she failed her own “burden of performance”.
     
     
     
    Step 1 in My REBUILD was getting back to the old me physically…that is largely complete and shifting to maintenance mode. I thought the women, dating, sex part would be much easier especially from a time investment standpoint but it is hitting me now this is probably going to be a lot more time and effort than I originally anticipated, and that I LIKELY HAVE A VERY STEEP LEARNING CURVE WITH MASSIVE TIME INVESTMENT to successfully transition from “Dog” to “Cat” interacting. Meanwhile, I’ve got to REFOCUS on Career and Finance stuff which TBH has been neglected.
     
     
     
    Maybe this is part vent, it has just been a rough few days. I think I’m going to use your line with the “I’m a damned good reason” woman and just see WTF kind of happens.
     
     
     
    FWIW, I live near a major U.S. metropolis, about 1 to 1.5 hours away depending on traffic, so about 80-90% of my matches on SOD come from the city itself or even further away suburbs. And right now, for a variety of reasons both time and cost I’m not into driving that far for first date drink or coffee meetups. Bars are just opening up where I am at, so I want to maybe once every two weeks go out and try some night game, but I need to find a wing or go it alone.
     
     
     
    So that’s that…I’m not ready to throw in the towel, but I need to shift my time more in the direction of career.
     
     
     
    I do appreciate all your comments and feedback, my sense is you are always trying to give me constructive helpful feedback.
     

  8. If you can get to the bottom of what psychologically happened there, you might find some ways to rectify the ways you go about doing business. That sounds very pathological. What were the reasons that she and you let yourselves go? And let down your basic burden of performance. That is just not normal. And there must have been driving forces. What drove that downward spiral? And what will drive you going forward that is different?
     
     
    Ha. There is A LOT there to unpack and address. Life priorities shifting during various points in time leading to slacking on our exercise regimens, we both struggled with eating issues, her much more than me, but even with me I need to be eternally vigilant. In JUST 10 weeks of the gym shutdown because of COVID I went from 212 to 225 and that includes probably a few pounds of muscle loss because of lack of heavy training stimulus. Now in just under 3 weeks of gym reopening, I’m back down to 219 and no doubt I’ve gained all the muscle weight back. But I’m back on my 5-6 day workout routine and religious adherence to diet and daily calories and macros. So my point is an enormous amount of damage can be done over a 2-3 time year period from simple neglect of doing what you gotta do. She had severe binge eating disorder, I would often find all kinds of junk food wrappers scattered about in her car. Some people drink alcohol, some smoke cigarettes, some get high, she and I ate to excess lol.
     
     
     
    She had actually been morbidly obese during her 20s and lost it all in her early 30s which is when we met at the gym. She competed in figure contests for a few years at usually around 115. In her late 30s she became perimenopausal at obviously a very early age. Her hormone levels particularly progesterone and estrogen were at horrendous levels. Her personality slowly changed from this feminine, playful, bubbly person to this depressed, somber, morose person all the while the weight piling on pound by pound by pound week by week by week. I’m still not sure today who the REAL person was, I suspect her 40 something self was closer to who she was in her 20s, and maybe her 30s were the anomaly? I don’t know. We are only 2 months apart in age and were together from 32 to 43. I began dating her about 8 months after my first marriage ended in 2005. For my part, I had a lot of STUFF in the 2010-2012 time frame that led to neglecting my exercise routine and eating junk as a coping mechanism. Unfortunately, I think we fed each other’s respective dysfunction in this area.
     
     
     
    I’m interested in what drove your trading losses. Did it have to do with you and your mental state, Frame? Or did it have to do with external forces that you had no control over? And what did your wife and your relationship and your reflexive behaviors have to do with that?
     
     
    I was working a typical corporate finance position in a regulatory finance type of role. I had been there a number of years, and was dissatisfied with my career progress. i’m probably not wired for Corporate America but put that aside for now lol. But for quite awhile it was OK, the “demands” of the job left me plenty of time to double dip and do trading research and review charts during the work day so it was a satisfactory arrangement. Things changed in 2014, NEW DIRECT SUPERVISOR, former military guy, I had a really bad vibe about him, and how he would affect my role…ha…I was right. Eventually, I wanted to GTFO and needed enough Fuck Off money, my trading became reckless, oversized positions, more use of highly leveraged instruments like futures, inability to cut losses properly and step away a bit and regain composure. To put it in Poker Terms I went Full Tilt and basically blew it all up.
     
     
     
    I was having some medical issues, and I filed for “Reasonable Accomodation” not realizing I had just painted a giant bullseye on my back. I was terminated, filed a lawsuit, and eventually got a somewhat mediocre settlement, my lawyer thought going to court had pretty crappy odds. I’m still married at this time.
     
     
     
    TBH, still not even sure what happened, maybe I was clinically depressed? My wife’s career had also taken a nosedive so our joint income plummeted, we hemorrhaged through assets. And then one day, I woke up, she and a bunch of her stuff was gone. A few days later I received an e-mail that she had filed for divorce and it “was not up for discussion”. A girl from high school reached out to me that same week my wife left after some Facebook posting from me. I’ve mentioned her here before. We’ve spent hundreds if not a thousand hours+ talking over the past 3 years.
     
     
     
    I needed some reason to even get up in the morning back then, I was an out of shape fat ass with no career, and assets mostly obliterated. And so recommitting myself to healthy living, working out, and getting my old body back became my raison de etre. Meanwhile, I had been working as an Uber driver which was mindless, fun work that provided a social outlet. At that time I had zero interest in women, dating AT ALL. Summer of 2017 a friend persuaded me to sign up for one of the online dating sites, and thus began my venture into that world lol. I still wasn’t really that much into it, I had my mission to get back into shape and didn’t care about women and dating.
     
     
     
    Then late 2017, ANOTHER WOMAN from high school messages me on one of the dating sites NOT knowing who I am (I don’t look like high school at all). We start hanging out as friends for several months. She is the Nurse. She hits on me, says she would like to date, I tell her I am not ready, plus to be honest I did not find her very physically attractive. She and I have some physicality to the “friendship”, we play tennis and basketball, and she gives me “platonic massages”. One night, she starts running her fingers through my hair during one of these “platonic massages” and I think to myself “this doesn’t feel platonic” lol and in that moment I think it has been a really long time and I start kissing her. Although it may be a shocker lol, I actually am capable of escalating lol, and so that ramped up that night to everything except fucking …”we need to have one proper date before sex”. I laughed and said “OK”. We went out on a date a few nights later, fucked for the first time, and that began that 11 month relationship which ended in April 2019. Since then, I have been exclusively using the SOD apps to try and meet women to OBVIOUS LACK OF SUCCESS AND GREAT FRUSTRATION lol. I had a few opportunities from my Uber driving that I no doubt fucked up.
     
     
    Ha, so that is my story
     
     
     
    And yes, at 46, relying exclusively on “age appropriate” women that are on SOD platforms results in a massive shortage really of reasonably attractive candidates relative to 20s and 30s because as you point out a lot of the higher value attractive women are already taken.
     

  9. @HF / Morpheus / Sentient / Wahoo
    .
    Thanks for the feedback on my son, much appreciated.
    .
    @Wahoo
    .
    I dunno if you want feedback on this but:
    .
    “They finally worked it out in the courts where he got us kids 1 day a month and some hollidays.”
    .
    You know this wasn’t them “working it out” right, that’s the poor bastard having to go through the courts to get the absolute fucking minimum they could conceivably give him. One day a month is a shit hand to be given. The real intention is that he should have been given NIL, but if they’d given him NIL he could have gone Rambo with nothing left to lose, so he was kept on a bit of string – given crumbs.
    .
    Then your mother losing her shit on that one day. Just looking from the outside looking in I know she was absolutely terrified of that day and “losing you”. I bet she spent the entire month dreading that one day. The one day a month when he imposed his will on her and she had no control.
    .
    If by then he’d re married then it had taken him a long time to get access to you.
    .
    I dunno, the farm girl widow thing, from here that would be a “nice no bullshit girl that’s had a rough time” – she probably actually appreciated him early on so it was a nice place to hang out. Dunno how that played out in the medium term if he was blue pill. Probably would have degenerated with guard dog spin up.
    .
    Looks like you had a few years in the wilderness before you went back and drove a truck with your dad, and you lived with him for a bit? That must have been good.
    .
    I don’t know much about how a mother should be, mine was 90 lbs soaking wet and mainly drugged. I used to come home from school and find her passed out in a puddle of piss. Step over her and make myself a cheese & pickle sandwich and then go out on my bike.
    .
    I do know about fathers, mine was a brilliant one. He died 17 years ago. You never really “work through” it. But you do learn to live with it. Funnily enough I drove up to see him yesterday but the pussies had shut the crematorium.
    .
    A few things happened at once when mine died which gave me an abrupt wake up call:
    .
    My son was 3 months old
    Two days after dad died I got a letter from the Inland Revenue saying they were investigating me for Serious Fraud (SCO-9). That was one down from the most serious level where you go off in handcuffs and they raid your house / office. My professional advisors shit the bed bc they’d never had one that serious.
    .
    At this level they do show up and do a 7-8 hour recorded interview under caution. It went on for 2 years. Anyway, long story short, you find out you got no friends, everyone abandons you. And your “loyal trusting wife” is looking at you asking if you really did it. Even your legal counsel were biased to protecting their own arses.
    .
    (Just as an aside I’ve just had 3 more gubbermint investigations dropped. They didn’t drop it until I fired my lawyer. I said “I’m not gonna indulge in this bs any longer – they gotta piss or get off the pot. He told them he’d been fired And they dropped it.) I’ve fired lawyers several times and every time I do it, the oppositions brain is fried.
    .
    I realised I’d just cremated the only one person on the planet who would have said “fuck em” and had my back. He wouldn’t have cared if I was guilty, he’d still have said “fuck em” and had my back.
    .
    I realised that I was, and I always would be, completely alone.
    .
    Dunno if any of that helps.

  10. @Morpheus

    Ahhh man there’s loads there and it’s all linked together. I don’t know if you actually want any feedback but it might be of some use.
    .
    I really don’t want to be unkind but you’re in serious danger here. You’re not the prize in your own head. These women are all escalating on you, you’re not seducing them. If you don’t deal with your self esteem, values, mission and boundaries before you even think about women you’re just gonna get picked up again and rinsed out by the next woman that comes along. You’re probably a target for an HPD and then you would be fucked right now.
    .
    The chumps don’t need to click read more so I’ll try to demonstrate what I mean.
    .
    A bit of a story: I get a phone call every couple of months from a woman I was banging 20 years ago. Solid 8 at the time. She was married at the time. Looking back she was trying to get pregnant but it never happened.
    .
    I’ll tell you how the “seduction” went because it’s more or less scripted now and I’ve used it loads of times:
    .
    I was working away and staying in a hotel near her.
    .
    We did the work etc.. and she asks where I’m staying.
    .
    I tell her and she says “oh it’s nice there”
    .
    I say yeah, I’ll be in the bar tonight for a couple of drinks if you fancy after leaving work.
    .
    She’s like “ok but I have to get home as married etc.” (Husband is a big bad arse traffic cop – also a drunk)
    .
    I say “yep see you later”
    .
    She turns up to hotel bar and we get a drink and laugh and chat and she says “I’ll bet the rooms are nice”.
    .
    I say “yep, bring your drink and you can have a quick look before you go.”
    .
    I pick up drink and start walking to the Escalator to the room, again small talk, and into the room.
    .
    Once in the room, she says “oh this is nice” and I gently take her hair and pull her in for the make out, take her drink off her and put it down and pull her into the bed. That’s was that, we never discussed sex but she was only there for one reason.
    .
    She divorced that guy and wanted kids so adopted them and she needed a father so dated around the chumps and finally got it together with a big tall strong masculine guy with a big cock.
    .
    I was on the hen night and she’s actually told me she’s not the least bit interested in him. Aaaand she’s phoning me about once a month now. She only calls when she’s out in the car and we talk about all this shit and that shit.. she can’t talk in front of him. He follows her everywhere. Is really needy Etc.
    .
    She’s quite a brave thing thats come through a lot of personal adversity, she’s got her own business and she’s built more than one house, leveraged her own money etc.. She still does this and every step of the way this guy second guessing her, saying he wouldn’t “take the risk” etc.. keeps suggesting she “sell her business” etc..
    .
    The bloke is basically a fucking pussy. She’d love to get away and spent the afternoon with me but has one very young child and a new baby.
    .
    Every time she calls me she’s in a fluster and what she needs to is attach herself to a concrete block – me. And every time the conversation degenerates into me saying:
    Slow down
    Stop panicking
    Don’t be bloody stupid
    He would say that bc he’s got no balls
    Stick with what you’re doing it’ll be fine. (Unless I think it won’t be fine)
    Well have to have a long lunch next time we can both get away.
    ….. then she calms down and off she goes ….
    More or less 20 years that’s been going on.
    .
    Back to you
    .
    “One night, she starts running her fingers through my hair during one of these “platonic massages” and I think to myself “this doesn’t feel platonic” lol and in that moment I think it has been a really long time and I start kissing her. “
    .
    Those were never platonic. I’ll bet she was at your place. She had dealt with logistics, she had suggested the massage, not you. You were in her frame.
    .
    “Although it may be a shocker lol, I actually am capable of escalating lol, and so that ramped up that night to everything except fucking
    .
    Nah.. you didn’t escalate. She couldn’t make it much clearer.
    .
    “we need to have one proper date before sex”.
    .
    I’d love to think it was you saying that to her but it was her saying it to you. God she’s craving dominance. Putting it on a plate and you still couldn’t make it happen / laugh off her “little joke” take her by the hand and lead her gently to the bedroom and “just do it”. She’s laid a condition down for the sex and you’ve complied with the condition.
    .
    “ I laughed and said “OK”. We went out on a date a few nights later, fucked for the first time, and that began that 11 month relationship which ended in April 2019.”
    .
    I’m not trying to swipe – but I hope you see what’s going on here? Do you?
    .
    There may be an argument for laying off women for a while until you’ve looked at your core values and self esteem and dealt with all that.

  11. Palma,
     
    I appreciate the feedback, lots to think about.
     
     
    You’re probably a target for an HPD and then you would be fucked right now.
     
     
     
    I’ve had 3 LTRs in my life, my first wife from 1996-2004…on and off broke up and got back together MANY TIMES, my second wife from late 2005- April 2017, and then the Nurse from May 2018-April 2019. During “breaks” with the first wife, I had a number of short-term casual relationships or flings or whatever you want to call them. I’m no expert on HPD, but I’ve spent some time reading about Cluster B personalities. I don’t know whether they would meet diagnostic criteria, but i suspect both my first wife and The Nurse have BPD/HPD/Cluster B traits. My first wife ticks many of the boxes of HPD. So clearly I am susceptible to these women. I think I have some inkling why that it is, but I’ll refrain from psychoanalyzing myself right now.
     

  12. Those were never platonic. I’ll bet she was at your place. She had dealt with logistics, she had suggested the massage, not you. You were in her frame.

    FWIW, not sure it matters to your overall point, but that encounter was actually at her place. Looking back now, it probably was somewhat abnormal and unusual situation for a woman with kids in the house, but she was my FIRST TIME EVER dating a Mom with kids. I don’t have kids with either wife, and never before dated a woman with kids who live with her so it was a brand new experience. That encounter happened in her bed at her home after her kids had gone to sleep.

    Like I said, for me, it was originally 100% platonic. We got together to play basketball, tennis, and go on walks. One day during a tennis match, I sprinted and my hamstring went into spasm, and she came running to “work it out”, and that started the “platonic massages” as she called them. Once the relationship turned sexual, we regularly had sex in her bedroom at her house while her kids were in their bedroom. She seemed to have absolutely zero issue whatsoever with it, so it never really was an issue to me, and didn’t occur to me until much later that most Moms with kids at home don’t operate their sex lives this way lol. There were a few times when she would call me while I was Ubering at 1-2 AM to come over, and she would give me a blowjob in the living room, first time I was quite paranoid about one of the kids walking out of their room but she didn’t seem to care. Ha, it’s probably why I seem oblivious/naive to this entire “Mom logistics issue” since it has never been an issue ever before with any woman I was sexually involved with.

  13. Morpheus

    I appreciate the feedback, I do, but I’m considering at least temporarily taking a step back from basically pursuing women for sex and dating.”
    .
    Go back and read the part about forgetting meet and bang and doing emotional impact for points. Wax on, wax off training.
    .
    *and TBH I didn’t need perfect high level Game with 100% spot on flawless “emotion spiking” with zero “dog” talk to land them.

    .
    And you know that isn’t the threshold here right? That’s binary fallacious sperg talk. An excuse. Getting a leeetle better gets better results. Getting a leeetle more better gets more results. Do you even lift bro?
    .
    Get over your sadz… And get back to work. Because you need sex. You can’t afford to neglect this part of your life. I mean look at this guy…
    .
    https://s.abcnews.com/images/GMA/abc_gma_berman_090807_ms.jpg

  14. Palma, thanks for the insight into Pop’s battle for custody. He was red pill alpha living by the old set of books. By the time of his third marriage however the climate had changed drastically and he adjusted his game into some blue pill fashion so that at 45 he married an epiphany 30yo with no children. She had him by the gnads he quit the pipe and even quit drinking for awhile,she played on his weakness to the point he put everything in her name for a while then she systematically cut him off from everyone else, family friends associates.

  15. @wahoo
    .
    “she systematically cut him off from everyone else, family friends associates.”
    .
    I’ll bet ya every one of her friends were butt ugly.
    .
    She had to be centre of attention?
    .
    Stinks of HPD..
    .
    It was touch and go me escaping one of those. Luckily she over cooked it one night and kicked in my car doors after she blew up furiously DURING sex.
    .
    It was only self respect that saved me. I think that self respect is a thermal cut out in a lot of ways. My dad didn’t really see it like that, he just put another bed in my bedroom and kept going.
    .
    She was super hot, but I remember saying to a friend of mine “she can take her plastic tits and smelly hole and fuck off”.
    .
    She still comes back now and again but it’s a very dangerous and very slippery slope.

  16. @wahoo
    .
    “Then your mother losing her shit on that one day. Just looking from the outside looking in I know she was absolutely terrified of that day and “losing you”. I bet she spent the entire month dreading that one day. The one day a month when he imposed his will on her and she had no control.”
    .
    Damn, I can see this clear as day looking at your situation with your mother but I was totally blind to the fact that the exact same thing is probably happening with my ex wife and my own son.

  17. Sentient,
     
    Got it…I agree and you are right. FWIW, I’m not talking about giving up or quitting, just taking a bit of a break and putting it slightly on the back burner. I kind of divide my life into 3 main categories:
     
     
    Health, physical fitness, exercise, physique
    Women, dating, and sex
    Career and Finance
     
     
    For the last few years, I put a lot of time, energy, and effort into #1. I’ve mostly gotten where I want to be, and trying to downshift to some “maintenance mode”. I only refocused on #2 when the relationship with the Nurse ended, and it has been 100% SOD so I’m planning to expand to Nightgame/Bar game. But TBH I’m way behind on #3, and so I want to make that priority #1 over the next several months to even a year.
     
     
    I’ve got way too high a sex drive, like sex way too much (the Nurse did succeed in reminding me of that because the end of Marriage #2 had gone south in that department) to just say fuck it, I give up, and go MGTOW. Interestingly, from just other blogs I read, Twitter follows, etc. I do think you see more and more guys 40+ and definitely 50 and 60+ taking that route. The truth of the matter is the bar does seem awfully God damn high for what is awaiting you as the prize on the other side of the bar in many cases. That’s not me bitching, just making an assessment statement. On the SOD platforms, maybe 2-3 out of 10 women 40+ are still reasonably physically attractive.
     
     
    I’m going to focus on your challenge which is to deemphasize the objective/goal part and just focus on making the interaction playful and elicit those emotional reactions you are talking about.
     
     
    Stuff is just reopening here, a lot of bars at 50% capacity. I’m going to try and force myself to go out at least once a week, and just see what happens.
     

  18. @Morpheus
    .
    “ I’m going to try and force myself to go out at least once a week, and just see what happens.”
    .
    Why not every night? To perhaps 3 bars in rotation (pick ones with logistics back to your place) and get to know the bar tenders.
    .
    If I were you I would not go out with the intention of “trying” to pull.
    .
    I can tell you that once a week is nowhere near enough. Even in a banging town the numbers of people out and approachable who can be escalated against aren’t going to be enough for you to reliably FNL once a week unless you go out 3-4x that.
    .
    Did you finish MM?

  19. Morpheus

    The truth of the matter is the bar does seem awfully God damn high for what is awaiting you as the prize on the other side of the bar in many cases. That’s not me bitching, just making an assessment statement. On the SOD platforms, maybe 2-3 out of 10 women 40+ are still reasonably physically attractive.

    Assessment Statement = “the leads are weak.”

    You know the response to that. Assessment from under an elephant is different from on top… Not talking about SoD women btw. Lol

    To Palmas point re 1x a week… Look there are no participation trophies here…

    “Good father?”… You know the rest…

    You will learn more in one month of intense focus than in a year of 1x a week… Paging Culumn! When I was learning I’d go out 3 nights in a row… From 6 to 2 or 3 am. Immersion.

    Now the online stuff is just for practice and the strange Corona issues… It’s not reality… Reality is right down the street at Starbucks…

  20. The other thing I will say is you don’t need physique or Finances to get sex with women. You do need to understand seduction.

    This is observable… Plenty of broke ass no bodies (pun) getting it. Plenty of cross fit guys with bank not.

  21. @Morpheus
    .
    The biggest mindset change is – don’t buy them a drink. ** applies to where you’ve made an approach at a bar (I only do indirect)
    .
    Changing that mindset goes to the heart of the RP re programming.
    .
    So when you’ve approached and you’re in conversation and her drink is empty, and your old BP programming says to the back of your head “offer her a drink” – don’t do it. Let her sit there with an empty glass.
    .
    If you’ve got her going she’ll buy herself another drink to keep hanging out with you and she’ll offer to buy you one too.
    .
    Even now I louse up on this sometimes, once you’ve bought them a drink you’re going down the wrong path.

  22. Sentient to Morpheus
    Reality is right down the street at Starbucks…

    On travel, I went by a Starbux in a still semi locked state. Big banner out front “OPEN”, but inside all the tables and chairs are off limits, there’s tape on the floor for spacing and control, essentially just take-away. Although a couple of people sitting at tables outside. All the staff have masks on. So…not really all that open.

    But…step up to the counter where the plexiglass shield is, and say “Hmm. I don’t think this is bullet proof. Has Billy the Kid been riding again?” gets a curious glance over the mask, and a sort of giggle. Carry that forward a bit more and there’s a breath of life brought to a barrista’s day.

    Flirting with just the eyes? Obviously possible.

    Morpheus: the world is all around you, maybe you’ve been overthinking just a bit?

  23. @Morpheus
    .
    I woke up this morning and have rationalised the “don’t buy them a drink” thing on an indirect approach. Despite it being obvious I hadn’t actually rationalised it up to now.
    .
    I said it because I’ve done it with a couple of women and I’ve just seen the attraction disappear from their faces, on the other hand I’ve held back from buying drinks and they’ve got even more attracted, they bought drinks, invited me to share their drinks etc..
    .
    Keep in mind that I’m mostly out alone and I’m opening women in pairs, or up to groups of about six, and sometimes I’m even making conversation with Male/Female couples. Also keep in mind that for the past 18 months I have not escalated against anything age appropriate because I’m trying to crack my own mental position ref younger women. I still don’t have that right.
    .
    So it’s very simple, a direct approach is an unearned IOI and so a DLV. An indirect approach SHOULD give you an opportunity to DHV because you are talking to her with an ‘excuse”.
    .
    It should not therefore be interpreted as an IOI because you have an “excuse” to talk to her that is not a telegraphed interest in “her”. The barstool shuffle / jacket under the bar onto the hook (handbag whack) / fumble is incredibly efficient at this.
    .
    The minute you step into buying them a drink, it telegraphs interest that they probably haven’t earned unless you’ve put them through some compliance hoops, and it’s therefore a DLV. So the standard ‘nice guy’ approach at a bar of cold approach – “Hello”, followed by “can I buy you a drink” is a double barrelled unearned IOI, therefore a double DLV, so you’ve put yourself down two clicks below zero before you even start.
    .
    Their hindbrain radar knows they’re being hit on and therefore you consider them the prize. It’s a bad place for you to start.
    .
    You wouldn’t buy a random bloke a beer at the bar would you? If you did he’d think you were “the ghey”, right? In certain parts of town he might even throw a punch right? He’d want to know “what you wanted”.. And he’d be right.
    .
    On the other hand, if you’ve indirect opened because you’ve thumped her bar stool by accident and “oops apologised” and then you’re into conversation you haven’t given away your intentions. You’ve got her into conversation and can joke and laugh and DHV and put her through some compliance hoops while you look for an IOI from her.
    .
    Once you’ve had three IOI’s you really are wasting your time in that set if you can’t escalate because you can’t isolate, or split her from the group. Then you could ‘pivot’ ie, use the situation where you are with one woman to allow you to open another. then it’s a decision, do you hang in set long haul, or do you hit it with the false time constraint and number close leaving her high, to come back for round 2.
    .
    This was me playing with pivoting when I was out with another woman. I still don’t have the younger woman thing right, but without the pivot it would have been low odds of actually getting her into conversation:
    .
    https://imgur.com/a/iHv8HqQ
    .
    On that same day out with the same woman we bar hopped and I sat near a couple of women on my own while she went to the bar. They two ignored me until the woman I was with joined me withe the drinks, then they opened a conversation. Thats how strong the pre selection is in the pivot.
    .
    Only way to calibrate is hard miles on the Tarmac…

  24. Palma, “She had to be centre of attention?”

    You nailed it.

    Her wedding had to be at the biggest church in town the reception required the rental of the fine arts center. The woman never stopped running her mouth she dominated every conversation, I once saw a look of resignation on Dads face while she was running on. I think he realized he had to put up with her or loose all his lifes work, houses business ,commercial property ect… everything he had worked so hard to build. In the end she got it all anyway. The thrill of the chase turned into how do I get out of this trap and keep both legs?

  25. @Wahoo
    .
    I’m sure you can do your own googling but:
    .
    https://psychcentral.com/disorders/histrionic-personality-disorder/
    .
    I had a narrow escape. Mine had me seriously contemplating bankruptcy – part of the stages of isolation and removal of my support mechanisms – so total dependence on her.
    .
    Once you are totally isolated they emotionally empty you.
    .
    Then they discard you – emotionally, but probably not physically. They never discard a supply so they surround themselves with ugly losers. Nobody attractive or successful is allowed in the circle.
    .
    I had a very narrow escape.
    .
    He will have been her “primary narcissistic supply” which is what Prince Harry is.
    .
    It’s a testament to how hard he was that he survived it at all.
    .
    .
    First description that crops up in gulag:
    .
    “Narcissists hate losing their supply, so they won’t let you go easily. Prepare for them to promise “to change.” They might suddenly start doing things for you that you’d been complaining about. They may say “you’ll be lost without me,” or “you’ll never find someone like me.””
    .
    It goes on and on if you google it.

  26. Palma

    Pinkie was cute. You see how preselection/IOIs creates jealousy feedback loops too, with the girl you were with. Lol

  27. @Sentient
    .
    “Pinkie was cute”
    .
    Honestly I think I’m one standard deviation from getting hold of pinkie types. I think it’s logistics and timing being at odds with my inbuilt firm ware that’s deeply burnt in. For instance girl at my cofvefee shop (who always flirts – no tips here remember) has been wearing bright red lipstick for the last 2 days (totally out of character but we know what it means).
    .
    Current Pocalypse is just fucking up all thoughts I’d had at escalating with plausible deniability.
    .
    The girl I was with works for me and I have never mixed it. She is a front to back RP / hypergamy case study – the textbook was written on her. I might even write her up if you’re interested but I might change my handle as will have to assess risk.
    .
    I have a total helicopter view of her life over loads of long lunches. She’s married to a big strong masculine military guy so it should all be good right…?
    .
    I didn’t get a true glimpse until we were in the back of a taxi, now she’s a hard faced scrappy bird – the type that rolls her own tampax and kick starts her vibrator and she’s drunk so she asks the driver:
    .
    “Cabbie, can I ask, do you like taking it up the arse with a strap on from your gf”
    .
    There’s a bit of a silent pause and I’m like 😳😳 errr. “She’s not with me mate we can just get out here”
    .
    You know where this conversation goes right… her husband likes that ^^ the full on drunken analysis of the failings of her marriage and she’s banging round bc she’s just “never really been into” her husband…

  28. Wahoo McDaniels
    Her wedding had to be at the biggest church in town the reception required the rental of the fine arts center.

    Lots of women want to get, married, not quite so many want to be married. Part of the filtering / vetting process for a man who chooses to marry is sorting out the Bridezillas from the others.

    The woman never stopped running her mouth she dominated every conversation, I once saw a look of resignation on Dads face while she was running on.

    That right there is one reason for this site and Rollo’s books. Essay after essay, chapter after chapter, aimed right at men in those situs or preferably before they get to that situ.

  29. Palma

    Lolz

    It’s amazing what some guys get up to. Honestly it seems like half married guys get no sex at all (and a large number of these guys are ok with that) and the other half have weird submissive and cuck fetishes… It’s like an 80% chance that any married woman who is out at all in mixed company is up for a real guy banging her as a result. The way they act if you put out just a little bit of vibe…

    Sad world.

  30. @sentient
    .
    If you look at what I call the Blaximus night where the cuck held up my drawing of a cock then You see a pattern.
    .
    Plus – confession here – I have been rejecting age approx women for at least a year bc I didn’t want to “soften” my efforts with younger.
    .
    Ok, I’ve docked the ship back into age appropriate nurse to get laid as I haven’t been in over a year. But hey this, she has never had an orgasm with a man. Except me. And it’s not about cock size.
    .
    Then listen the the audio pre the Blax moment with the Yankee couple that you will remember a year ago:
    .

    .
    Do you think he was fucking her so hard that she was wetting the bed?
    .
    How widespread is that – asking for a friend…
    .
    You know almost no modern women are getting it.

  31. @PalmaSailor

    @HABD / Sentient / Wahoo
    .
    So I’ve analysed the timings between the texts.
    .
    As a general rule chit chat goes well and replies are within the hour. Often they turn into a “rally” where messages go to and fro in real time.

    .
    this is great… it shows he wants a relationship… and the only thing keeping him from meeting up is… when he has to ask for permission to meet…
    .
    The exception to this rule is where I suggest a meet. Every time I do this there is at least a six hour delay before he comes back to me and it’s always with a rejection EXCEPT for his birthday. That approval took 9 hours – see below link.
    .

    .
    sooo, he asks… mom puts him off… and then finally when he asks again, she makes an excuse why he can’t…
    .
    .
    I nearly got to see him and go out with him on his birthday but lockdown scuppered that. The birthday came with strict guidelines – how and where he should be collected and he can’t be out for long etc..
    .
    As you can see the extent of it was “an hour for coffee” whoop de fucking doo… lets push the boat out.
    .
    I think his mother was stumped at refusing birthday access. Even she realised that this would just be her being an utter bitch. Even then – I suspect it was her behind it reluctantly releasing the reins for a whole fucking hour for COFFEE bc DONT YOU DARE Even think about doing anything fun.
    .

    .
    i’m pretty sure that he knows mom is being ‘unreasonable’…lol…
    .
    just keep playing… you are winning now (even though it’s frustrating)… and you will win in the end… next time, invite him to go with to see his grandpa… either way, you win bigly…
    .
    .
    good luck!

  32. @Sentient
    .
    “It’s like an 80% chance that any married woman who is out at all in mixed company is up for a real guy banging her as a result.”
    .
    Remember this within 60 seconds of a cold approach (I did get a hair flick IOI from a distance)
    .

    .
    Turn the sound on – her final line to a bloke she’s been talking to for literally 2 minutes – “whether or not I sit on your face” – bit of entitlement there but it’s the thought that counts.

  33. But hey this, she has never had an orgasm with a man. Except me.

    Hahaha. She’s hooked now for sure. Definitely get her friends over… Lol.

  34. The comments on The Rational Male are hereby closed.
     
    I’m sorry this has to be the actions taken, but I will not have this blog’s material removed due to the deliberate attacks from compulsive liars exploiting the current social climate to damage or erase 9 years of valuable work.
     
    I don’t want to do this, but I’m left with no choice. A small minority of pathological trolls have ruined it for the rest. This closing will be temporary until such time as I can institute comment protocol to track and combat these accounts.
     

    1. Previous commentors and registered accounts can now comment on a limited basis. I’ve got a workaround I’m implementing today. I will ban accounts outright for any and all racebaiting.

  35. Well today something interesting happened. In early morning, I was taking a walk as per my new healthy routine, something unusual caught my eye. Daughter Gamer was talking to a stranger in jugging dress. Now I never saw that man before but since Daughter Gamer exercises regularly so she could know him, I thought I’d give it a go. About 45 minutes later, coming back to the same route after intense walking, I saw that man was still talking to my daughter, this time in a much dominant manner. I approached them but Daughter Gamer changed posture after watching me coming. The man intorduced himself as our new neighbor, he’s a couple of years younger than her, he has an eye of a chad. I told her to go home to my grand-daughter as she could’ve already been awake but Daughter Gamer persisted staying with him for a short while. I managed to send her home 10 minutes later, the guy tried to be nice to me. It’s very interesting how girls can forget everything if properly gamed.

  36. Quick update…if I get a chance later I will write longer detailed breakdowns of these field reports but for now

    Palma, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, you said something to me that I’ve been reciting in my mind over and over and over again, and consciously thought of during these interactions which is “OWN THE INTERACTION”, it has made a tremendous difference, I have no doubt that I would NOT have pulled any of these three outcomes without really thinking “I need to own and lead this interaction”

    2 weekends ago on a Saturday I picked up a passenger, we hit it off and vibed quickly, roughly 1.5 hours after picking her up I was in her bed in her bedroom watching her suck my dick. She was on her period otherwise I would have most definitely fucked her. I wasn’t able to convert her YET into any sort of ongoing sexual relationship despite her telling me that night that I was coming back later that week with a condom lol. But I consider this a win over all. Getting into her apartment, from her living room to her bedroom, into her bed, and my cock in her mouth all was from me leading the interaction.

    About a week and half ago, I had a first date with a woman from one of the dating apps. We met at a bar roughly halfway between our two residences. The logistics were NOT there to fuck (we ended up trying to find a cheap hotel to no luck) and ended up going back to the original bar we met at, where she gave me a blowjob in the parking lot of the bar. Same thing, the blowjob would NOT have happened had I not consciously thought “Own this Interaction”. Since then, she has apparently gotten insecure over the difference in our bodies (I sent her a pic the other day post workout) so I’m open to any suggestions here. I’m thinking maybe play the long game…here is her text from yesterday to me “Not ready for MY body to be inspected…even tho yes, if we woulda found a place that night I woulda fucked you. But as I’ve had time to imagine it more and would like to be in better shape – flatter tummy – before I get all sweaty with you”…But I will be fantasizing about running my hands over you…squeezing you chest and having my way with you”

    And last one, another Uber passenger just this past night (a few hours ago). Picked up 2 girls, started flirting towards the end of the ride, wasn’t sure which one was actually interested, played my AGE guessing game which I run on many female passengers (I look 15 years younger), flipped the light on, and the blonde in the back said “OMG, you are insanely good looking”, the brunette sitting in the front had been less talkative. They invite me in but I have another ride to go to, I tell them I will text them after I drop the ride off. Normally, I probably would have not followed through, but I was thinking I need to lead this and make this happen, I text them and head back to their house, and head downstairs and we start drinking and playing some goofy card game with questions…the blonde is flirting big time and I’m thinking it is her, the brunette is more quiet. The blonde says she is heading to bed, and leaves me alone with the brunette at which point I realize she is the one that is really interested. I say let’s move from the bar stools over to the couch and I start touching her and running my fingers along her tattoos. I pull her in to kiss, eventually put her hand on my dick, and from there she starts sucking my dick, and I end up fucking her. I don’t know that we exchanged more than 50-100 words before my dick was in her, most of the convo was with the blonde. I think maybe…maybe….I can pull a threesome if I navigate this right…the blonde was absolutely gaga, she complimented my eyelashes, and asked how tall I was and when I stood up was like “OMG” and you are tall too.

    There is zero doubt that my looks, height, and fitness helped here, but I also know that I had I NOT consciously thought I have to OWN AND LEAD THESE INTERACTIONS none of the three would have happened as quickly as they did. Frankly, this last one blows my mind. I was fucking this chick under an hour from getting to their place with barely much words spoken, but I did lead the interaction physically quickly and made the quick move to go from bar stool to couch to pulling her in to putting her hand on my dick. That was all very rapid.

    Last comment on the online app date. I also used the “bounce venues” thing by going from the original bar to a different bar…I noticed her kino on me, touching and stroking my arm upped dramatically when we “bounced” to the second bar.

    I think maybe I’ve turned at least one partial corner here, and really it comes down to me saying to myself I MUST OWN AND LEAD THIS INTERACTION so thanks Palma.

    The last one BTW, I think she said she is either 26 or 28 with a super tight body. She made a few comments AFTER that I think indicate she might be interested in this being an ongoing thing versus one night stand, but I am open to any suggestions on how to best convert these to ongoing things. I think I may have fucked up the first Uber pickup with the text I sent after I got home that night although who knows maybe she has a boyfriend or something, but she was nonresponsive to my follow up texts and the one ping text I sent.

    1. Morpheus

      Props…

      Learn from this… this stuff works, this Game stuff.

      You are still a little too concerned on the externals… but take the wins here and the lesson.

      “I need to own and lead this interaction”

      Men lead… women respond to leading. You flipped a switch in your head.

      Since then, she has apparently gotten insecure over the difference in our bodies

      Just delete her number. seriously. She is firmly in her frame, topping from the bottom. Move on. Let her come back and chase you.

      I think I may have fucked up the first Uber pickup with the text I sent after I got home that night although who knows maybe she has a boyfriend or something, but she was nonresponsive to my follow up texts and the one ping text I sent.

      Probably came off as too needy. Let’s examine this.

  37. @morpheus

    “I don’t know that we exchanged more than 50-100 words before my dick was in her”

    Yup less talking, more doing

    Field reports I’s fucked up here bc you can’t paginate to the end. Find us at West Indian archies.

  38. Morpheus

    “I am open to any suggestions on how to best convert these to ongoing things.”

    Only hit her up for late evening booty calls.

    “Hey I just finished a drop off. You home?”

    Don’t go all boyfriendy and text her all the time and hang out and do date stuff…

  39. Palma,

    “Yup less talking, more doing”

    Yep, I think I’m learning, honest to God though I owe it to those words you wrote OWN THE INTERACTION. I don’t think I would have pulled what I have the last 3 weeks which includes 2 Uber passenger pickups leading to 2 blowjobs and a fuck inside 2 hours lol. And the other girl would have fucked too had she not been on her period, actually TBH I think she would have let me, but I”m not that fucking crazy lol.

    “Field reports I’s fucked up here bc you can’t paginate to the end. Find us at West Indian archies.”

    OK, thks, will check out. BTW, you can simply go up to the web address header and manually change the page number. It is on 154 right now. so that is an easy way to navigate without previous and next.

  40. “Only hit her up for late evening booty calls.”

    Thanks, and noted! I may have botched Uber pickup girl 1, we’ll call her J. I’ll post the text exchange later with the context for some of the texts. FWIW, this girl got pretty deep with me conversationally during the ride to her place, asking me if I had kids, wanted kids, that she thought I would make a good Dad, and even during the encounter wanted to talk to. She wanted me to stick around when I told her I had to leave and go home, she mentioned us going on a “proper date” later in the week. She also was a super athlete who played basketball overseas, and we talked some trash about me playing her one on one. This will all make some sense and is context for the text exchange which I’ll post later. As of right now, she hasn’t responded to my last ping text several days ago which was Shaq posting and dunking. Still, I’ll throw this in the win column for sure. From the time of pickup to watching her head go up and down my cock couldn’t have been 90 minutes.

    Uber pickup girl 2 is K, actually 2 girls, K & N. I actually originally thought N was the one interested in me because she was the one who said “OMG, you are insanely good looking”. I ended up back at N’s house after a drop off like 30 miles away racing like a bat out of hell to get back to N’s town which is also where I live. We went downstairs to her bar, started drinking, and playing some game with a spinning wheel and cards with lots of sexual oriented questions. I actually tried some of that deep eye contact stuff on N while we were talking, and she said “your eyes sparkle”….I about laughed my ass off, I had cataract surgery at a young age so I have artificial lenses that can bounce light in a sparkly way under certain lighting conditions.

    I was NOT paying super close attention to the beginning of the convo with N & K, but they were talking about some guy with N telling K to drop him, I think maybe it was her boyfriend, I really don’t know for certain.

    “Don’t go all boyfriendy and text her all the time and hang out and do date stuff…”

    I’ve tried to follow this with K, and think I have, but maybe I was off somewhere, but so far no recent response, but again she may have boyfriend and regrets cheating? I have no idea. I”ll post the exchange later.

    Now I know for absolute certain N is very attracted to me, she said some crazy shit, the OMG you are insanely handsome, telling me my eyes sparkle, she asked me to stand up, and was OMG and you are so tall too. At one point, during the eye contact thing, she said as we looked at each other’s eyes “I love my boyfriend, I love my boyfriend” lol. So, I know where N works because she told me where she is a bartender. I’m wondering what is within the realm of possibility here, maybe even including threesome with both of them. How do I play this? My thought on my next move was to go one weeknight to where N works hoping she is working that night, and maybe putting some work on her, plus maybe i can figure out what the deal with K is.

    Don’t get me wrong…the last 3 weeks have been great lol, basically watching 3 different chicks all suck my cock, but I’ll admit I’m surprised that neither of the 2 have been responsive to follow up action. When I finished fucking K, I was sweating profusely (I get hot really easily) and had sweat dripping off my back, and she was like “you are hot” and I was like Yeah, I know that was intense physical activity for quite awhile, and she was like “No, I mean you are like so fucking hot” and I complimented her body which was banging. So I’m pretty sure she was happy at the end of it all. I think I followed your texting strategy OK with her about not being needy, boyfriendy, etc. so I am somewhat surprised she didn’t follow up either Saturday night or Sunday night to either of my texts, but again she may have boyfriend. Anyways, I’ll post the entire exchange later. FWIW, she was a tanoholic with lots of tan lines and I am more plain white lol so that is the reference to tan lines you’ll see in the exchange.

  41. You are still a little too concerned on the externals… but take the wins here and the lesson.

    Trying to learn and improve…FWIW, with both Uber pickups it was the externals that got the ball rolling. I think the difference was I grabbed the ball and ran with it rather then just be passive. I remember thinking in both interactions if something is going to happen here I HAVE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN, not wait for it to happen to me, and no doubt the exchanges with you guys have been helpful here. I had a recent Tinder date too where I think I had her on the fence, but honestly I think I lost her when i told her I had zero interest in a serious relationship when the convo went in that direction. I also made the mistake of doing a dinner date with her. Fuck. Maybe I’ll post that entire exchange as well to see where maybe I could have played it differently. She hasn’t unmatched me on Tinder. I have NOT pinged text her again, but was thinking about it.

    “Since then, she has apparently gotten insecure over the difference in our bodies

    Just delete her number. seriously. She is firmly in her frame, topping from the bottom. Move on. Let her come back and chase you.”

    So some developments here, I’ll post the text exchanges. I figured I’d keep texting her, but try to give the impression that I did NOT give two shits that she didn’t want to fuck, but continued with at least some banter, and to be honest I think i introduced some comfort stuff over a connection in our musical tastes. She basically texted me today that she is DTF for next week. So, my concern here is she has been bouncing back and forth between Fuck No Fuck a lot…like the previous posted text showed she was willing to fuck on date 1 if the logistics had been there. My thinking is next week is too much time for her to get cold again? And change her mind? She lives really far away, so I’m trying to figure out logistics here and maybe suggest a meet up this week? I’ll post the recent text exchanges later as well.

  42. Morpheus

    this girl got pretty deep with me conversationally during the ride to her place, asking me if I had kids, wanted kids, that she thought I would make a good Dad, and even during the encounter wanted to talk to. She wanted me to stick around when I told her I had to leave and go home, she mentioned us going on a “proper date” later in the week.

    Careful… One of the most bone chilling things I ever heard after a random girl picked me up at a club, went back to my place, banged her twice… Same dynamic, said maybe 30 words to her… As she is getting ready to leave she says “I love you”… I went cold… crazy crazy crazy signal… lol

    started drinking, and playing some game with a spinning wheel and cards with lots of sexual oriented questions.

    So THEY sexualized… How would you have sexualized the situation if they hadn’t? Think about this…

    I think maybe it was her boyfriend,

    Never think of the boyfriend or husband… Don’t concern yourself with other guys, don’t let them in your set, even if it is virtual… Focus on the A B C’s… Only deal with other guys if they become obstacles or you need to Boyfriend Destroy…

    How do I play this? My thought on my next move was to go one weeknight to where N works hoping she is working that night, and maybe putting some work on her, plus maybe i can figure out what the deal with K is.*

    Don’t go stalking her. Super creepy. Just send a text to BOTH of them that you are free and what’s up… “Hey. At XYZ, done driving. What’s going on?” etc…

    The goal is to get them back together and this time you game them both and then escalate on both of them. Start making out with one and then motion the other to come in.

    I’ll admit I’m surprised that neither of the 2 have been responsive to follow up action.

    Probably in the text exchanges. Too soon, too needy…

    she didn’t follow up either Saturday night or Sunday night to either of my texts

    And too many… lol

    YOU ARE THE PRIZE

    Trying to learn and improve…FWIW, with both Uber pickups it was the externals that got the ball rolling.

    And? So? There is ALWAYS something that gets the ball rolling… In this case it is an external factor. AVOID putting any faith in this… First, it does not matter, because if you CAN’T game them you wont bang them, other than the occasional horny and aggressive 5/6… and SECOND you are one bad squat away from losing those externals, gaining 15 lbs and losing muscle tone. Do NOT rely on this… And THIRD, YOU ARE NOT YOUR BICEPS… lolzlolzlolz

    I remember thinking in both interactions if something is going to happen here I HAVE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN, not wait for it to happen to me, and no doubt the exchanges with you guys have been helpful here.

    This… always this…

    I figured I’d keep texting her, but try to give the impression that I did NOT give two shits that she didn’t want to fuck, but continued with at least some banter, and to be honest I think i introduced some comfort stuff over a connection in our musical tastes.

    Good job trying to turn it around and not being needy…

    So, my concern here is she has been bouncing back and forth between Fuck No Fuck a lot…like the previous posted text showed she was willing to fuck on date 1 if the logistics had been there. My thinking is next week is too much time for her to get cold again? And change her mind? She lives really far away, so I’m trying to figure out logistics here and maybe suggest a meet up this week?

    There is that covert contract thinking again lolzlolz

    She can always change her mind. what is YOUR job? Some guy wrote “I HAVE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN”…

    Listen to that guy…

  43. Apologies for having to go back to the old style comment system. This is just a temporary fix. I’m looking at a better plugin this week.

  44. @sentient

    Update

    So I’m back to doing manual work as a Bilda for people that are still getting paid. That’s nurses and others at the hospital so I expect that being a builder is what I’ll end up as now for a couple of years.

    I’m working for the nurse I’ve been banging and It’s taken a month of doing that daily to get her to the point of doing almost anything, though didn’t follow up on the threesome after seeing her friend, I will in due course when a better candidate crops up.

    It’s the first time I’ve done this type of thing but suburbia (flyover country?) looks like a hotbed of sexual frustration.

    I’ve never before mixed it and banged women I’ve been working with, but it’s just so easy. I think I’m gonna scrap that rule and enjoy myself for a bit.

    I don’t think it’s going to be very difficult to work my way through a load of them.

    Interesting take was a local plumber I talk to recited a story from a woman who knew asked him: “did he know a good looking builder bc she didn’t want to bang an ugly one to get the right price on her job?”.

    Interesting times in lots of ways at the moment.

  45. Palma

    The frustration is very real. But I think it is an age thing more than suburban. It’s just that the suburban demo skews older. Basically all of them over 30 are gagging for it. Unless they are pussy hatted leftist freaks. But then they are as well but remain repulsive…

    It gets hard not to act on it once you see the signs…

    I’m guessing all those old stories about the milkman were true…

  46. Here is an example. The other day I was having lunch outside. The table next to me was a little hottie, say early 40s. She was lunching with a builder and his partner and they were going over her plans for her big dream house. Lots of talk about her kids and husband and the rooms blah blah. Obviously this guy was preparing a large bid.

    And every 10 minutes she would turn to my table and look at me. So naturally I’d just give a little smile and nod and look back at her. I finished my beer and went and got another figuring I’d open her when the guys left. Come back sit down and it commences again the stare…

    Sure enough the meeting ends and she says goodbye and they go on ahead while she stands back at the table and fuddles with her phone… Her back to me now. Classic approach invite if you know what to look for.

    So I say “sounds exciting” and she opens right up beaming “I know right!” … And then there was a pause. The pause was my opportunity to invite her to share more and maybe have another drink with me… But I left it. And now in the gap, she gathered her bag and said “we’ll have a nice day” and left.

    Here is the point. She is just going about her day, a day filled with big dreams and plans and her future… And yet her hindbrain is STILL putting her in a situation where things might just happen…

    Is it just validation seeking on her part…? Well sure there is some of that… But that slope is very slippery…

    And she goes back home and goes about her day. Probably is happy… But yet inside there is still a deep yearning waiting to be plumbed.

  47. @Sentient

    “Unless they are pussy hatted leftist freaks.”

    Well I live in the people’s republic of pussy hatted leftist freaks and some are just too gross for words, but even the ones that aren’t drive themselves to even more mental illness than they’ve already got by attempting and failing to reconcile their gender politics and feminism with the fact that they desire domination in bed. Actually very aggressive domination.

    There are whole articles written on trying to rationalise the subject which just degenerate into total neurosis – but bottom line – it’s definitely ok.

    After a couple of hours of sex and without washing (we just put out clothes back on) the nurse and I grabbed a bottle from my fridge and two glasses and walked to my local pub (it’s shut but locals have taken to buying bottles and using the seating outside).

    There was a “guy” (overweight, obligatory ghey beard and soy face) and he was with a girl. She was quite hot but at pains to say they’d met on tinder but that didn’t really work out and now they were just friends. Body language says they’ve never banged.

    But I’ll guarantee you, his Tinder profile says EXACTLY what she thinks she wants to read about his politics, Male feminist, ally, working with special needs children.. I mean he should be just purrrrfect right? But he’s not even close.

    She didn’t actually ask what our relationship was but was dying to know, and kept offering more and more about herself with the expectation that we reciprocate. We didn’t, and neither the nurse or I are into public displays etc.. so we could have been brother and sister, but she just knew we weren’t. But we’re not an “item” either. It’s just sex.

    I’ve had the same conversation with a local guy in his 60’s, and he doesn’t have a clue about game, TRP, or anything but he’s banging loads of women including his other friends 28 yo daughter. He just says “they’re all going out with these total ‘wets’ who don’t know which way is up”

    (For the record he’s shorter than me. And on that subject, in astonishing medical news it seems I’m not 5’8” like I thought, I’m actually about 5’6”)

    So yeah, it’s everywhere, and it’s not heightist.

    “She was lunching with a builder and his partner”

    Her husband wasn’t there right, but the builders partner was there to get a look at the enemy, and check out the territory.

    So building the cave is the mans job, but her husband wasn’t around – probably putting in 300 hours a week to pay for it, but that doesn’t matter to the hindbrain. If you’d engaged her on that and done the site visit you’d have been hanging out of her by sundown.

  48. hey fellas, leaving a lump of coal here so that some of you alpha alchemists and numbers nerds can turn it into a pearl, or gem or whatever

    https://www.arvarik.com/the-stable-marriage-problem-and-modern-dating

    lotsa good tidbits to launch from, here are some samples:

    “…Men’s ranking of women pretty closely resembles a normal distribution…” [think bell curve]
    “…Women’s ranking of men is more closely related to the Pareto distribution… the top 20% of men hold 80% of cumulative attractiveness…” [the graphs say it all]
    “…because men make the first move, the algorithm benefits men as it works in a greedy behavior to get them the best possible partner…” [be sure to understand ‘greedy’ is a technical term in logic/computer sci]
    “…for the most part the men are the reachers and the women are the settlers….” [ouch]

    to me, the post is suggesting something between the sexes’ perception of attractiveness and that men can benefit(?) by making the first move; I’m not sure if there are differences between marriage vs dating scenarios

    possible thought experiment: if societal norms change to where women would make the first move about the same amount as men, would their perceptions of attractiveness also change, ie, would they become more like men’s?

  49. Dr. Zipper
    Some blog or other
    “…Men’s ranking of women pretty closely resembles a normal distribution…” [think bell curve]
    “…Women’s ranking of men is more closely related to the Pareto distribution… the top 20% of men hold 80% of cumulative attractiveness…” [the graphs say it all]

    Well, yeah, the OK Cupid data analysis of a few years back showed this quite clearly. It’s observable in the field as well.

    to me, the post is suggesting something between the sexes’ perception of attractiveness and that men can benefit(?) by making the first move; I’m not sure if there are differences between marriage vs dating scenarios

    Yes, confidence is attractive, that’s been shown over and over again both in theoretical and practical (field) situations. All these things are testable and have been tested and in fact are being tested every day.

    possible thought experiment: if societal norms change to where women would make the first move about the same amount as men, would their perceptions of attractiveness also change, ie, would they become more like men’s?

    Doesn’t matter because on average women won’t make the first move. But they will deal out IOI’s continuously and often unconsciously.

    Covert estrus is covert and Briffault’s Law will apply no matter what stupid things happen to societal norms; men who “just get it” will still make out well;

    PS: That blog looks like it was written by someone slightly autistic.

  50. I sent you the super chat with the handle of “Simple Fly.” I am a clinician who supports your work where I can. I would like to have a dialog with you and the panel public or privately about the state of the Mental Health field. My question was about Dr. Smith and Dr. Glover. I think we need to help the my field navigate “feels before reals.” You have an opportunity to be a diplomat in this area. Please contact me if you like. I support you.

  51. OK, Soooo much to update on, things on the women, dating, and sex part of my life are changing for the better with the last 4-5 weeks just getting a bit crazy. I ended up fucking the woman on date 2 this Monday night who gave me the blowjob in her car on date 1, and was kind of playing reluctant a bit as already described. I’ve got another recent Tinder match who absolutely wants to fuck me but she lives about 180 miles away. I have lots of follow up questions, and will try to post as much as text stuff I can manage time wise.

    Is there any easier way? Right now, I have to screenshot my phone, then use an app to transfer the file from my phone to my PC, then upload the file to IMGUR, and paste the link in a comment here. It’s fucking tedious and time consuming as all hell for multiple screenshots but I know no other way?

  52. FWIW, and again its always hard to tease out cause and effect but here is what I think is driving the last few weeks. I slipped on diet during the COVID gym shutdown and gained probably 10-12 pounds of bodyfat during the 10 weeks. Since May 25 when gym access reopened, I have been going flat out balls to the wall, I’m in even better shape now than pre COVID shutdown with extremely high levels of definition starting to appear. I know, externals, etc. but there is no denying this has had an impact. The Uber passenger girl I picked up must have told me 5-10 times while I was fucking her how hot my body was.

    That said, I have really been repeating to myself in my head OWN THE INTERACTION, OWN THE INTERACTION, OWN THE INTERACTION, OWN THE INTERACTION, and trying to take the lead as much as I can. For Monday’s fuck date, I told her (not asked her) to show up with no panties. We met at the bar, and the first thing she did was grab my hand and put it to verify she had no panties. We had one drink each, and then left for the motel. I opened the door, grabbed her, threw her on the bed, and started eating her pussy, no questions, no hesitation, just take action. So I am trying to really internalize this new mindset of being in charge rather then waiting for the woman to basically jump on me.

    Sentient, I saw your comment on the other thread, this woman is already trying to boyfriend zone me. We had a super hot sexting thing going on this morning, and then she slipped in some stuff about how she made her profile invisible, that she is only going to fuck me, etc. I’ll post the exchange, I want to avoid this. She already invited me to hang out with her friends.

    Haha, I’ve been texting Tinder woman about her, Tinder woman seems to get excited at the thought of me fucking other chicks. I’ll try to post some of those too.

  53. OK, so…Online app girl B who gave me the blowjob in her car…earlier comments lay out that, and I think I posted her text on how she was reluctant to fuck until she was “in better shape”.

    So how did I flip her I think, again, I’m speculating cause and effect here, I know what I did, and that I fucked the shit out of her Monday night for a couple hours, I’m not sure what caused what exactly but I think it was 2 main things.

    When she showed reluctance, I did NOT PRESS OR CHASE at all…I remember what you said Sentient, basically I tried to give the vibe that it was no big deal if we met to fuck or not.
    She is 46 and a little thick, no big deal, but, and I don’t know where this fits into orthodoxy but I’m finding I think this is true for “Older women”…I think they have mixed feelings about a guy in my physical shape, they find it attractive, but it also makes them insecure as fuck. I talked to a super close female friend who I’ve mentioned here before and she said older women do have “body image” issues and they think a guy in the shape I am in is going to be scrutinizing all their “flaws”. She told me to up the reassurance and comfort that I find her sexy and hot, so I made comments about her sexy legs and hair. Was this key to fucking her? I don’t know, but I fucked her and i think there is something to this as I’ve been puzzled by my lack of success in the 40-49 age segment, and I think it is possible that they are nervous about getting naked with me with the shape I am in. The 28 year old Uber passenger had ZERO hesitancy in me seeing her naked, and she also was aware of the shape I am in since she was constantly commenting on it during the fucking.

    So I don’t know, I’m trying to figure this one out that my body may actually have both pros and cons with the older women who don’t have the super rocking tight bodies themselves. Again, this woman seemed to flip from reluctance to yes let’s meet once I showed that one it didn’t really matter to me and two complimented her on various physical attributes she had.

  54. Mother Fuck, my comment I started to write got eaten, OK, try again, this is Online App girl that I fucked Monday night who blew me on date 1 and then was reluctant to meet again to fuck, we fucked on date 2, she was initially reluctant, and i flipped her I think due to 2 main things, I think she is now trying to boyfriend me quickly, I’ve often found myself in these situations.

    I basically tried to establish that I wasn’t going to chase sex with her and didn’t matter to me one way or another so I guess I successfully established outcome independence?
    And this is something new I think. She is 46 and a little thick, but pretty face, nice long legs, and awesome boobs. But she is not in my shape. I’ve been wondering about my lack of success with older women. I talked to a close female friend who I’ve mentioned here before and she said older women have “body image” issues and that I needed to do more reassuring comforting of her that I found her sexy and “hot enough”. In contrast, 28 year old Uber pickup chick had no hesitancy getting naked in front of me and she was highly complimentary of my body so she obviously did NOT have the same insecurities. So, maybe with the younger women being in super good shape is a 100% positive but with older women has drawbacks? I don’t know, but I’ve been puzzled somewhat by my flameouts with women in 40-49 age group, and this is a somewhat plausible partial explanation. Yeah, I’m sure the mindset change also is a key thing so far.

    Anyways, here is the text exchange, obviously partial excerpts, my best to put in chronological order but this is GD mother fucking time consuming to get these off the phone into IMGUR correctly. I’m interested in any feedback on what I did right, what i did wrong, and most importantly how do I stay out of the boyfriend zone yet keep fucking this chick who clearly was very pleased with our first go around.

    https://imgur.com/a/BRNV6BH

    There is still the 2 Uber passenger chicks, and now a new Tinder match, hopefully I can post those soon.

    1. Check back later. Basically you are texting and talking way way to much. And you don’t let a flabby pink haired 46 yo set limitations on your sexuality.

  55. Morpheus

    She is 46 and a little thick, but pretty face, nice long legs, and awesome boobs. But she is not in my shape. I’ve been wondering about my lack of success with older women. I talked to a close female friend who I’ve mentioned here before and she said older women have “body image” issues and that I needed to do more reassuring comforting of her that I found her sexy and “hot enough”.

    LOL – this is all about an older woman’s difficulty in “consolidating” on you as Palma might say. get exclusivity and provisioning. Boyfriend stuff. Generally they make guys chase harder for the sex so they think they can get more commitment once they put it out. Otherwise she knows she is just a pump and dump and you aren’t going to stick around. She only has so many sex bullets left in her magazine as her looks continue to fade…

    Do you even TRM bro?

    In contrast, 28 year old Uber pickup chick had no hesitancy getting naked in front of me and she was highly complimentary of my body so she obviously did NOT have the same insecurities.

    Again it’s not anything to do with insecurity. Our Hot Girl Summer girlies are all still riding the cock carousel and they never ever ever expect the ride to stop… Just one hot guy after another… So yeh in general younger women are much easier to get Teh Sex with because they are still just riding the feelz…

    Do you even TRM bro?

    https://blackdragonblog.com/2016/03/14/15767/

    So you have ONE bang with Pinkie and she is starting to lock you in…

    She has an opening because you are so in her frame, so concerned with how she was pleased and so ego invested in what she thinks of you…

    HINT – it’s not about her it’s about YOU. YOUR frame, what YOU want, How satisfied are YOU?

    So a lot of that text string is her chumming the waters… leading to this

    “I’m not gonna put you through a date if your not looking to invest in someone”

    And you go hook line and sinker in on that…

    8:31AM

    So you are the 1% guy? You’r open for something more… Check with HABD on that armor polish… 🙂

    Boom! She has her opening… You fell right into it…

    and you double down…

    3:33PM – Hey I haven’t heard back from you are we still on?

    BOOM!

    Now she knows she’s got a shot with you at consolidating… WTF man…?

    1:32AM – I had a wonderful time tonight!

    What did we say about exclamation points!!!!! NEVER use them. You should have just pinged her to see she made it home safe, that is enough post sex comfort then NOTHING ELSE…

    4:46PM – just so needy… You don’t need to do this. Maintain your frame. You aren’t her human dildo. Focus should be more on her meeting your needs.

    10:31 AM – Your body turns me on!

    So what happens after this loss of frame?

    BOOM!

    10:55AM – She tells you she turned off her app. Unsaid is the quid pro quo of you doing the same…

    10:58AM – What would you like me to do with toys?

    Again in her frame, needy… and she picks up on that

    BOOM!

    11:04AM – Gotta be said – I better be the only person your sleeping with though.

    END SCENE

    Now she is in full chase me/consolidate mode.

    Going forward – just ping text post bang to confirm she made it home safe. That is enough comfort. Ignore any chase me texts during the week. Maybe send a ping or so as you get close to your next window where you want to bang, then hit her up for the booty call day of. If she balks, go no contact for a bit and see if she chases you. Keep repeating this cycle.

    That will keep you from avoinding the coming shit storm with her over exclusivity…

    How to handle that? You should squash it… You can do it gently with “A gentleman never kisses and tells” and if she picks at that you just don’t respond until she changes the subject…

  56. Sentient,

    Will do, thanks.

    “Flabby” 46 year old woman? Are there any at that age that are not??? LOL, haven’t seen a one yet across numerous apps. Women under say 25% BF are basically unicorns especially amongst the older ones. Now the 28 year old Uber passenger. Tight body.

    FWIW, I completely ignored those texts and did not respond to them. I just pretended like i didn’t even see them. My thought now is to wait and see if she brings it up again, and basically just flat out tell her I am not interested in sexual monogamy, and maybe call her bluff. I know I fucked her better than she has been fucked in a very long time so I guess I’m curious if she’ll walk away if I don’t go along with her monogamy dictate. I’ll wait to see what you have to say on that as well in terms of responding to her.

    The first session with her was pretty damn good, and she appears very enthusiastic to want to please me, I obviously didn’t post every single text we’ve had for the last several days to a week. I was unsuccessful in converting BOTH of my Uber passenger pickups to semi-regular hookups as they have been nonresponsive and I stopped texting after the last round of PING texts. I’m somewhat surprised especially the second one given a lot of her comments during our fuck session. Maybe i fucked up the post hook-up texting, but i also read a post from Red Pill Dad indicating “flaking” is basically at off the charts level, so who knows why they didn’t follow up for repeat sessions.

    Which means as of right now, I’m still without a go to girl for regular sex when I want it, and my thought was this woman could fill that slot, but it seems like she is already trying to boyfriend me. I’ve gotten sucked into that many times in the past involuntarily LOL, most recent being the Nurse after my divorce.

    Like I said, Tinder woman would fuck me no doubt whatsoever but she lives 3 hours away and that is just too far to drive.

    Hopefully, I can continue to pull some Uber passenger pickups. These two were NOT the first opportunities I had, but the first I was able to capitalize on with the OWN THE INTERACTION mentality. Looking back to past fall, I had a situation with three young women who were definitely giving me the sign to join them in their apartment at the drop-off but at the time I was still too passive. There have been quite a few others, but I just didn’t take bold enough action either towards the end of the ride or at the drop off point.

    FWIW, I think I got a pretty good routine going for the Uber drives. Often I get asked “how old are you”. I never answer. I make them guess. I never get anything remotely close to 46. I usually launch into some bullshit that I am a vampire and don’t age. Usually when i ask, i flip the light on in the car and turn my head to the backseat. That’s when I’ve had more then a few apparently really like what they see. At that point, many in the past I fucked up, but the last two, one invited me into her apartment for a drink, and that was the blowjob, and the second was the two that invited me back after my next drop off and I ended up fucking the one. I think I’ll get more of these especially as I drop another 5% BF and get down to 8-10%, and my face gets super lean.

    This latest woman I had fucked had some interesting comments about meeting me in person the first time vs my online pics so I think i need to revamp those and pull down the older ones when I was a lot higher bodyfat (although I have had some women say they like the pic I have with a kid and picked me because of it).

    Anyways, I’m sure I still have a lot to improve on and clean up as far as interactions, but last 4-5 weeks, 3 different girls, blowjob and 2 fucks, and i think the OWN THE INTERACTION mentality is leading to better outcomes.

  57. “Going forward – just ping text post bang to confirm she made it home safe.”

    Got it. I’ll cut out the excess BS. I just wasn’t sure how much comfort was needed post bang. This woman was definitely insecure about her body so I guess i was just trying to make her feel sexy and that I enjoyed it.

    “Ignore any chase me texts during the week.”

    So with these semi-regular plates, what should be the texting frequency, no more then every 2-3 days at most?

    “That will keep you from avoinding the coming shit storm with her over exclusivity…

    How to handle that? You should squash it… You can do it gently with “A gentleman never kisses and tells” and if she picks at that you just don’t respond until she changes the subject…”

    OK. Do you ever just go direct, and say I am not interested in sexual monogamy, take it or leave it? Like I said, I ignored it like I didn’t even read or acknowledge it. My female friend said her phrasing was a bit red flaggish, and I should watch for Clinger type behavior from her.

    I actually do kind of like her, TBH, I like the kind of free spirit types that have colored hair and tats, and like I said the first session was good and she was eager. When I said while fucking her, i want to watch you suck my cock again, she did exactly what I wanted no hesitation, no bullshit, so I think she would be the type to do what I want. She already agreed when I said I wanted to throat fuck her…I didn’t post that text lol. But i want to avoid the types of situations I’ve found myself in the past and so I am on guard for not repeating mistakes I’ve made. The sex with Nurse was really fucking good, but she sucked me into “relationship” I really didn’t want to be in for 11 months after my divorce.

  58. @Morpheus

    I’ve just got back and there’s a lot there to read. Gut feeling is you’re working far too hard at it.

    I’ll post a few screenshots of me and the nurse later, but I say almost nothing to her by text.

    It’s all good because you’re banging these women but it will go to shit fast bc deep down you still feel the need to qualify yourself, and the older ones will be trying to put you in the provider box.

    Rookie salesmen are scared of silence and feel the urge to fill any silence with shit, and I honk you’re falling into that trap.

  59. @Morpheus

    Not much gets said by text. Not in date order but 1st is an early Sunday AM booty call:

    https://imgur.com/a/jGWm78W

    Second one she invites me over to “meet friends”, I say bring them all over to me, she shit tests with “you couldn’t handle it old man” and I ignore that.

    https://imgur.com/a/zuXWe7W

    She then invites me over and I decline the invite (bc I’ve got stuff to do) but I don’t want to go anyway. Wander to my local pub in my own instead and hit on the barmaid.

    https://imgur.com/a/NPn17PB

    We do occasionally do bf type activities (more or less everything is still locked down and people are neurotic so indirect approach is difficult and some pubs flat ban “mixing”) But only after sex. It amounts to walking to the end of the road for a glass of wine in the pub garden, or a local restaurant. She paid for main course and I fancied desert somewhere else so I paid the Uber and we went somewhere else for that.

    I’ve been banging her most days for 6 weeks or so now and the nearest we’ve got to “the talk” was her asking me if I was happy how “we were going”. I smiled with raised eyebrows and didn’t answer.

    She usually turns up, we go at it, we share a glass of wine in bed after, then she goes back to her world. For her it’s total immersive escapism. She knows that will be lost if things go domestic.

    If / when I get confronted on the talk, I’ll just say that I’m not actually banging anyone else right now, but I don’t want to explain myself to anyone, and I’m happy with things how they are.

    More on your specifics shortly

  60. “LOL – this is all about an older woman’s difficulty in “consolidating” on you as Palma might say. get exclusivity and provisioning. Boyfriend stuff. Generally they make guys chase harder for the sex so they think they can get more commitment once they put it out. Otherwise she knows she is just a pump and dump and you aren’t going to stick around. She only has so many sex bullets left in her magazine as her looks continue to fade…

    Again it’s not anything to do with insecurity. Our Hot Girl Summer girlies are all still riding the cock carousel and they never ever ever expect the ride to stop… Just one hot guy after another… So yeh in general younger women are much easier to get Teh Sex with because they are still just riding the feelz…”

    It’s still so counterintuitive to me as a 46 year old guy but it sounds like the main takeaway is I really ought to be primarily targeting under 30 rather than 40-49. I mean all else being equal the younger group is going to be hotter anyways, better skin, perkier tits, tighter asses, less wrinkles, less fat, etc. and based specifically on what I am bringing to the table I’ll probably have a better success rate with them anyways. I’ve got to say this 28 year old Uber passenger, I mean it was so fucking easy, I was really kind of surprised, I mean literally ZERO and I mean fucking ZERO LMR, nothing.

    The blonde who had been flirting with me left to “go to sleep”, leaving the brunette with me alone, with the OWN THE INTERACTION mentality I said let’s move from the bar over to the sofa area, I started tracing my fingers along her numerous tattoos and remarked how interesting they looked, then I started kissing her, and she reciprocated intensely. My dick started to get hard, and I put her hand on my dick, and she made a comment about it. Her shirt came off, my shorts came off, and she started sucking my dick with zero hesitation. I pulled off her pants, she had on no panties, she grabbed my dick, inserted it, got on and started riding. I said absolutely nothing about penetrating her, entering her, nothing, she just grabbed it and stuck it in.

    And I’m gonna jump through God damn hoops to get laid from the older woman trying to “consolidate” on exclusivity? I guess when I reentered the dating scene I just expected the older ones to be easier to fuck. Guess not.

  61. Morpheus

    You are going to have to really take that red pill friend.

    Realize this:

    Women are BUILT for sex.

    They have more nerve endings

    They have multiple orgasms, wave orgasms, squirting orgasms…

    They can think themselves to orgasm

    They do not need to get hard… They can keep right on fucking all night long.

    What we refer to as Yet Goode Olde DayZ was a society that put hard restrictions on women precisely because their libidos are uncontrollable to them…

    So the take away is you should never be surprised that a) they really like sex b) that they like sex with you and c) that they will do xyz sexual act…

    And the take away from THAT is to realize that you shouldn’t get ego invested over women doing things they were built to and want very much to do.

    Once you get this straight everything else with women will make much more sense. And you will be able to deal with and handle them better.

    “Women fuck” – Blaximus

  62. FWIW, I think I got a pretty good routine going for the Uber drives. Often I get asked “how old are you”. I never answer. I make them guess. I never get anything remotely close to 46. I usually launch into some bullshit that I am a vampire and don’t age.

    This is called Game. You should be able to break this down since you are reading MM…

    I think I’ll get more of these especially as I drop another 5% BF and get down to 8-10%, and my face gets super lean.*

    And this is called No Game. 10% is that really better than 11% lol.

    Yareally would tell you gain 15 pounds or wear baggy sweaters and go try your game on 10 women and report back. Shatter the limiting beliefs…

  63. @Morpheus

    OK, Soooo much to update on, things on the women, dating, and sex part of my life are changing for the better with the last 4-5 weeks just getting a bit crazy. I ended up fucking the woman on date 2 this Monday night who gave me the blowjob in her car on date 1, and was kind of playing reluctant a bit as already described.

    Good

    I’ve got another recent Tinder match who absolutely wants to fuck me but she lives about 180 miles away. I have lots of follow up questions, and will try to post as much as text stuff I can manage time wise.

    **In the U.K. that’s a long way. I wouldn’t bother with that. **

    Is there any easier way? Right now, I have to screenshot my phone, then use an app to transfer the file from my phone to my PC, then upload the file to IMGUR, and paste the link in a comment here. It’s fucking tedious and time consuming as all hell for multiple screenshots but I know no other way?

    Get the imgur app on the phone.

    FWIW, and again its always hard to tease out cause and effect but here is what I think is driving the last few weeks. I slipped on diet during the COVID gym shutdown and gained probably 10-12 pounds of bodyfat during the 10 weeks. Since May 25 when gym access reopened, I have been going flat out balls to the wall, I’m in even better shape now than pre COVID shutdown with extremely high levels of definition starting to appear. I know, externals, etc. but there is no denying this has had an impact. The Uber passenger girl I picked up must have told me 5-10 times while I was fucking her how hot my body was.

    youre still leaning on the body. Imagine you’re 5’6”, and overweight, that’ll kid keep you out of fools mate”

    That said, I have really been repeating to myself in my head OWN THE INTERACTION, OWN THE INTERACTION, OWN THE INTERACTION, OWN THE INTERACTION, and trying to take the lead as much as I can. For Monday’s fuck date, I told her (not asked her) to show up with no panties.

    good

    We met at the bar, and the first thing she did was grab my hand and put it to verify she had no panties.

    you know she wants dominating right? Don’t be scared to push her to the wall and finger her, and then put the finger(s) in her mouth. Then threaten to punish her for not sucking her juice off properly.

    We had one drink each, and then left for the motel. I opened the door, grabbed her, threw her on the bed, and started eating her pussy,

    up to you but eating her is still giving (qualifying) you could have pushed her down on you. She has to “do the work” to “get you”

    no questions, no hesitation, just take action. So I am trying to really internalize this new mindset of being in charge rather then waiting for the woman to basically jump on me.

    good

    Sentient, I saw your comment on the other thread, this woman is already trying to boyfriend zone me. We had a super hot sexting thing going on this morning, and then she slipped in some stuff about how she made her profile invisible, that she is only going to fuck me, etc.

    ** ignore / misdirect / reduce to absurdity: “fuck, Brad Pitt is out of luck with you then**

    I’ll post the exchange, I want to avoid this. She already invited me to hang out with her friends.

    **refuse that. I’ve had the same thing”

    Haha, I’ve been texting Tinder woman about her, Tinder woman seems to get excited at the thought of me fucking other chicks. I’ll try to post some of those too.

    Perhaps SHE is excited about fucking other chicks and doesn’t have the balls to “make it happen”

    other Fuck, my comment I started to write got eaten, OK, try again, this is Online App girl that I fucked Monday night who blew me on date 1 and then was reluctant to meet again to fuck, we fucked on date 2, she was initially reluctant, and i flipped her I think due to 2 main things, I think she is now trying to boyfriend me quickly, I’ve often found myself in these situations.

    I basically tried to establish that I wasn’t going to chase sex with her and didn’t matter to me one way or another so I guess I successfully established outcome independence?

    I don’t know. Sex isn’t a big deal to women, perhaps she just realised she was gonna have to put it out to see you again

    And this is something new I think. She is 46 and a little thick, but pretty face, nice long legs, and awesome boobs. But she is not in my shape. I’ve been wondering about my lack of success with older women. I talked to a close female friend who I’ve mentioned here before and she said older women have “body image” issues and that I needed to do more reassuring comforting of her that I found her sexy and “hot enough”.

    **could be body image, more likely they’re hardcore provider hunters and know their ace card is the V so don’t want to play that too early with a consolidation prospect.”

    In contrast, 28 year old Uber pickup chick had no hesitancy getting naked in front of me and she was highly complimentary of my body so she obviously did NOT have the same insecurities. So, maybe with the younger women being in super good shape is a 100% positive but with older women has drawbacks?

    older men that are in shape are rare. Older women will know you have options so don’t want to put it out too easily. They will primarily be provider hunting in a way younger women simp,y are not

    I don’t know, but I’ve been puzzled somewhat by my flameouts with women in 40-49 age group, and this is a somewhat plausible partial explanation. Yeah, I’m sure the mindset change also is a key thing so far.

    difficult demographic, they’re in last chance saloon and really want (not Desire) a poindexter

    Anyways, here is the text exchange, obviously partial excerpts, my best to put in chronological order but this is GD mother fucking time consuming to get these off the phone into IMGUR correctly. I’m interested in any feedback on what I did right, what i did wrong, and most importantly how do I stay out of the boyfriend zone yet keep fucking this chick who clearly was very pleased with our first go around.

    **I think @Senteint has covered it. Trying too hard and too eager to communicate”

    https://imgur.com/a/BRNV6BH

    There is still the 2 Uber passenger chicks, and now a new Tinder match, hopefully I can post those soon.

    good!

    ll do, thanks.
    “Flabby” 46 year old woman? Are there any at that age that are not??? LOL, haven’t seen a one yet across numerous apps. Women under say 25% BF are basically unicorns especially amongst the older ones. Now the 28 year old Uber passenger. Tight body.
    FWIW, I completely ignored those texts and did not respond to them.

    good

    I just pretended like i didn’t even see them. My thought now is to wait and see if she brings it up again, and basically just flat out tell her I am not interested in sexual monogamy,

    why bring on the argument / conversation at this point?

    and maybe call her bluff. I know I fucked her better than she has been fucked in a very long time so I guess I’m curious if she’ll walk away if I don’t go along with her monogamy dictate.

    do you care if she walks?

    I’ll wait to see what you have to say on that as well in terms of responding to her.
    The first session with her was pretty damn good, and she appears very enthusiastic to want to please me, I obviously didn’t post every single text we’ve had for the last several days to a week.

    look, it’s too much texting. If she texts then you ignore. She needs to keep coming back for the P in V. Nothing else matters

    I was unsuccessful in converting BOTH of my Uber passenger pickups to semi-regular hookups as they have been nonresponsive and I stopped texting after the last round of PING texts. I’m somewhat surprised especially the second one given a lot of her comments during our fuck session.

    honestly something is wrong here if you’ve got them to the mattress and they’re not coming back

    Maybe i fucked up the post hook-up texting,

    there shouldn’t be any

    but i also read a post from Red Pill Dad indicating “flaking” is basically at off the charts level, so who knows why they didn’t follow up for repeat sessions.

    nah. If you banged her good she won’t flake. Red pill dad is probably a chump

    Which means as of right now, I’m still without a go to girl for regular sex when I want it,

    ** there is a problem here**

    and my thought was this woman could fill that slot, but it seems like she is already trying to boyfriend me. I’ve gotten sucked into that many times in the past involuntarily LOL, most recent being the Nurse after my divorce.
    Like I said, Tinder woman would fuck me no doubt whatsoever but she lives 3 hours away and that is just too far to drive.

    yup. What’s the population of your local town / city?

    Hopefully, I can continue to pull some Uber passenger pickups. These two were NOT the first opportunities I had, but the first I was able to capitalize on with the OWN THE INTERACTION mentality. Looking back to past fall, I had a situation with three young women who were definitely giving me the sign to join them in their apartment at the drop-off but at the time I was still too passive.

    muh

    There have been quite a few others, but I just didn’t take bold enough action either towards the end of the ride or at the drop off point.

    well what are you going to do about that?

    FWIW, I think I got a pretty good routine going for the Uber drives. Often I get asked “how old are you”. I never answer. I make them guess. I never get anything remotely close to 46. I usually launch into some bullshit that I am a vampire and don’t age.

    good. You live young on the orgasmic juice of young women

    Usually when i ask, i flip the light on in the car and turn my head to the backseat. That’s when I’ve had more then a few apparently really like what they see. At that point, many in the past I fucked up, but the last two, one invited me into her apartment for a drink, and that was the blowjob, and the second was the two that invited me back after my next drop off and I ended up fucking the one. I think I’ll get more of these especially as I drop another 5% BF and get down to 8-10%, and my face gets super lean.

    ”face gets super lean” – you’re still leaning on your fucking looks. Get this – they will get you fucking nowhere

    This latest woman I had fucked had some interesting comments about meeting me in person the first time vs my online pics so I think i need to revamp those and pull down the older ones when I was a lot higher bodyfat (although I have had some women say they like the pic I have with a kid and picked me because of it).

    looks again

    Anyways, I’m sure I still have a lot to improve on and clean up as far as interactions, but last 4-5 weeks, 3 different girls, blowjob and 2 fucks, and i think the OWN THE INTERACTION mentality is leading to better outcomes.

    “Going forward – just ping text post bang to confirm she made it home safe.”

    **why? Who gives a shit? Don’t we have feminism and “strong independent” women now? You’ve got that bulk purchase “common decency” shit from @Culum.

    Got it. I’ll cut out the excess BS. I just wasn’t sure how much comfort was needed post bang.

    none. It’s dirty sweaty porn. She can cuddle into you post fuck but that’s it.

    This woman was definitely insecure about her body

    why is that your shit to deal with?

    so I guess i was just trying to make her feel sexy and that I enjoyed it.

    she needs to own her shit

    “Ignore any chase me texts during the week.”
    So with these semi-regular plates, what should be the texting frequency, no more then every 2-3 days at most?

    well. If you have 3 plates then you’re banging each every 3 days. So forward book each date then ignore everything else

    “That will keep you from avoinding the coming shit storm with her over exclusivity…
    How to handle that? You should squash it… You can do it gently with “A gentleman never kisses and tells” and if she picks at that you just don’t respond until she changes the subject…”

    ignore – and if she’s in the bedroom, push her on the bed and fuck her

    OK. Do you ever just go direct, and say I am not interested in sexual monogamy, take it or leave it?

    no, not that overt

    Like I said, I ignored it like I didn’t even read or acknowledge it. My female friend said her phrasing was a bit red flaggish, and I should watch for Clinger type behavior from her.

    ignore your female friend. Or fuck her. But don’t listen to her

    I actually do kind of like her, TBH, I like the kind of free spirit types that have colored hair and tats, and like I said the first session was good and she was eager. When I said while fucking her, i want to watch you suck my cock again, she did exactly what I wanted no hesitation, no bullshit, so I think she would be the type to do what I want.

    they’ll all do what you want

    She already agreed when I said I wanted to throat fuck her…I didn’t post that text lol. But i want to avoid the types of situations I’ve found myself in the past and so I am on guard for not repeating mistakes I’ve made. The sex with Nurse was really fucking good, but she sucked me into “relationship” I really didn’t want to be in for 11 months after my divorce.

    so what have you learned?

  64. @Morpheus

    I’ve not done the character count with those texts but just basic rules – firstly there have been 33 incoming texts and you’ve replied with 31 so you’re way over on rule of 2/3. You should have issued a maximum of 20.

    Secondly I can’t quite rationalise which woman is which but there really is no need to get into so much of a debate by text with women you’re banging. You don’t have to text at all, and in my opinion you shouldn’t. All you’re gonna do is fall into her frame with long interesting debates about loads of shit you don’t want to discuss.

    One way of bursting the text rally is to ignore / and telephone her to speak to her when / after she texts. Phone calls are so old hat they burst the bubble.

    Ignore the content of her text and just arrange logistics for the next meet verbally. Then ignore subsequent texts etc..

    Last thing is the emojis… I’m not sure what they signify, but I only ever use this one really:

    🖕

    Along these lines:

    https://imgur.com/a/1mgxICf

    Occasionally she might get a 😘 if I otherwise totally ignore what she has said.

    Her: “I don’t want you banging anyone else”

    Me: “😘”

    Then ignore subsequent texts.

    You should really avoid them at all costs, I haven’t rationalised it but I think they’re try hard and too much investment. Just like you shouldn’t do any punctuation.

  65. She already agreed when I said I wanted to throat fuck her…I didn’t post that text lol. But i want to avoid the types of situations I’ve found myself in the past and so I am on guard for not repeating mistakes I’ve made. The sex with Nurse was really fucking good, but she sucked me into “relationship” I really didn’t want to be in for 11 months after my divorce.

    “so what have you learned?”

    Well, most importantly, I’m not doing the “sex for relationship” trade either explicitly or implicitly.

    Thank you to both you and Sentient for the detailed feedback. I need to think over it, and I’ll try to make the necessary adaptations going forward. In the meantime, online app girl keeps pushing the “physical monogamy” angle, and I keep on just ignoring it and not acknowledging it in any way. I’ll post the latest round of texts between us…not sure what to make of it exactly. I have some thoughts, and follow questions to the rest of your guys’ comments.

    Meanwhile, Tinder woman continues to offer me advice on my situation with Online App girl while simultaneously telling me she wants to fuck me lol…if she didn’t live 3+ hours away I would have already gone over and fucked her.

  66. “I’ve not done the character count with those texts but just basic rules – firstly there have been 33 incoming texts and you’ve replied with 31 so you’re way over on rule of 2/3. You should have issued a maximum of 20.”

    Ha, I only screenshotted PART of our overall texts, but point taken. I will work on less frequent texts, and lessening the response rate to her texts.

  67. why bring on the argument / conversation at this point?

    My thought is she is going to bring this up in person next time we meet to fuck, not sure how to dodge this in person vs text? In text, you can just ignore. What’s the answer? LIe, if I am in fact fucking other chicks. Shade the truth? Just flat out state my position, no sexual monogamy.

    honestly something is wrong here if you’ve got them to the mattress and they’re not coming back

    Maybe i fucked up the post hook-up texting,

    there shouldn’t be any

    Well…then maybe that did it then. I had a buddy also tell me too much texting, especially on the 2nd Uber hookup. He pointed out texting her the night of July 4 when she is at parties from a guy she hooked up with the night before wasn’t a good idea. So OK, I’ve made a mental note on this. I guess my thought here was after 1. Sucked my dick and 2. Fucked me that a post hookup text basically would establish some comfort as well since obviously they were attracted enough to get sexual with me inside of 2 hours of meeting me. Anyways, next passenger hookup I’ll get number and just send one short brief text and that’s it. I almost had another one last night, girl was giving me major IOIs but she was with “her guy”…I’m pretty sure if he wasn’t there it would have been on.

    As far as female friend, I do think some of her advice is helpful periodically…if you read through those texts entirely, Online App girl made numerous comments about her body relative to mine so I think it probably was an issue. Female friend told me that with a guy in my shape, older women are going to be more paranoid about me “judging their flaws faults” in their body whereas they don’t worry about that with a typical Dad Bod guy. So I think at least partially me telling her I found her sexy helped “Flip” her from “I’m not having sex with you until my tummy is smaller” to “let’s meet and get this on”. My text to confirm with her was because i had to book the motel room, and I didn’t want to be out $40 if she was going to cancel or no show, maybe I should have phrased it as statement instead of question?

  68. @Morpheus

    “My thought is she is going to bring this up in person next time we meet to fuck, ”

    Whose frame is this?…

    “not sure how to dodge this in person vs text? ”

    Whose frame?…

    “In text, you can just ignore. ”

    Frame?… Do you sense a theme?…

    “What’s the answer? LIe, if I am in fact fucking other chicks. ”

    Frame?…

    “Shade the truth? ”

    Frame?…

    “Just flat out state my position, no sexual monogamy.”

    Really feel that hand on your shoulder…

    Good luck!

  69. Morpheus

    ” What’s the answer? ”

    “Gentlemen never kiss and tell.” And change the subject.

    If she presses you you can tell her it is what it is and then move on to doing something… You change her mind by changing her feelings.

  70. @Morpheus

    How about this.. just go cold turkey on the texts.

    I’ve told them in the past “I don’t really do texting”, and just ignored all texts from them.

    Especially with ones that you’ve pulled in real life as opposed to online – How about Ignore all texts?. Just phone to arrange logistics.

    With all these women you are banging once, you should have at least one that you can just bang at will.

    They should be coming back. It’s your frame that’s mucking this up I reckon.

  71. It’s your frame that’s mucking this up I reckon.

    He still thinks he has to “earn it”…

    All the texting is a symptom of that.

    All the “8% body fat” stuff is a symptom of that.

    Rst assured if he had money that would be part of that too…

    Now don’t get me wrong Morpheus is making great progress. Great progress.

    Which is why I want him to solve his inner game issues as fast as he can.

  72. @Sentient / Morpheus

    This has cropped up in the past and I’ve often said that really all men should dump a woman but most never have. I’ll bet @Morpheus has never dumped a woman.

    Since I’ve just bought the paperback and this bit is on the preview anyway I’ll post it here:

    https://imgur.com/a/rjkkto7

    @Morpheus, @Sentient is right in that you’re not acting like you’re the prize bc you don’t believe it yourself.

    So I’ve got a suggestion for the next couple of new women you bang (or one of the ones you have banged) and that is go radio silent after the event for a few days and ignore any incoming. Then on about day 3 you text her and dump her: “look you’re a great girl but I’m not really feeling it and I don’t want a relationship. I wish you all the best, you deserve to be happy”.

    Try that and report back on the hamster explosion.

    Also that bloody woman 3 hours away – dump her. Tell her she’s too far away and you don’t really do “women friends”. She’s just muddying the waters and she’s in the safe zone so far away she can lead you on with shit bc she’s never gonna have to drop her pants in real life.

  73. “I’ll bet @Morpheus has never dumped a woman.”

    Haha, you LOSE. I actually dumped the Nurse. Here’s the short version. Nurse caught me lying about having a Bumble account open around Valentine’s Day 2019. She was understandably upset, and I figured I’d give her a little time to get over it. She NEVER got over it. The “relationship” turned to shit, and she started playing the withholding sex game.

    One day in April 2019, I decided that day would be her last chance. Either she fucks me damn good and super enthusiastically like she once did, or IT IS OVER. I drove over that night thinking that was it. And I broke up with her that night. I went home and changed my FB status from in relationship to single.

    A few days later she called me…”Come over and let’s have sex”, frankly I didn’t want some pathetic sex for relationship exchange but she really wanted to fuck so I went over there and fucked her. A few days later we had plans to get together at time X but she had to change because of work but blamed it on me, and then she went apeshit over me discovering I had changed my FB status but had gone over and fucked her a few nights earlier.

    THAT WAS IT! I HAD HAD ENOUGH OF HER CRAZINESS and told her we were 100% completely finished. So yeah, I have dumped a woman.

    She then started “dating” Aspie Provider doofus who had been orbiting her for years, even before we got together. They married earlier this year. A mutual friend (actually Paralegal who I fucked) told me that she had planned on breaking up with the guy only a few months before they got married.

    There’s a lot more to address in many of the subsequent comments. Also, the latest round of texts from Online App girl. As far as Tinder woman who lives 3 hours away, I see no reason to burn that bridge. She thinks I’m fucking hot as hell, I’ll put up the texts later, she wants to fuck me, so if she happens to be traveling through my area, I plan on meeting up with her. I actually find messaging with her kind of entertaining and funny. I’ll be honest, and maybe this is a departure from the Orthodoxy but I actually do interacting sometimes with women beyond the agenda of trying to fuck them, and sometimes they do have a useful perspective beyond how us guys tend to view anything. The world is filled with vaginas to put my dick in potentially, so it is no sweat if there are 2-3 where that isn’t on the table with them for reason X or Y.

  74. @Morpheus

    There’s loads there but you’re not getting what I’m saying to such an extent I’m not sure I can make it any clearer.

    I’ll comment on this though:

    “A few days later she called me…”Come over and let’s have sex”, frankly I didn’t want some pathetic sex for relationship exchange but she really wanted to fuck so I went over there and fucked her.”

    Nope, she didn’t “really want to fuck”

    What she wanted was validation that her golden V could get you back into her frame after you had just “dumped her” – which it did.

  75. CH has written a book on game late 2019

    Publishing date implies a year or more of writing before that.

    Perhaps that explains the really serious decline in the Comments section at CH beginning sometime in 2017 or 2018? Ultimately it was the mouth breathing Boomer commenters who dragged the site down to the pit of Cancellation.

    So 800 pages more or less? Must be a pile of CH essays in there, I hope some editing was involved.

    On the SPamazon page happily CH’s book is often bought along with Pook and of course Rational Male. Nothing like that was possible 15 years ago. Progress!

  76. @Everyone: Thanks Palma for the info on how you were commenting.

    Update on N=5: if you recall I banged this one twice, it wasn’t very good, she had the “oral only for bfs”. After 2nd bang she was being annoying and I told her “changed my plans, I’m going to do something else next morning” (she was pissed) and then lockdown kicked in and hadn’t seen her since. I tried 2 or 3 times to raise temperature and get her to come over but she was allegedly worried about COVID (read: not attracted enough).
    Eventually as people get fed up with being careful and some restrictions are lifted, a good-natured alpha common friend has his birthday, I’m going and that gets her to come out to play (pretty sure she would bang the alpha if he gamed her a little bit). She is a bit fatter since I saw her and she’s clearly self-conscious about it to the point she mentions it overtly. I would still bang though. I DHV’d a bit during the birthday and then a few days later get her to come over for a meal. I send her something which is slightly innuendo-y the night before and she goes “LOL” and then “Oh this is a good time to say this is definitely not for sex” (classic shit test).

    In any case she comes and I DHV a bit but there wasn’t so much attraction. At some point she goes (again overtly) about being fatter and I’m like “You would have to strip for me to be able to tell you” smirking and she goes “Ahah very funny” and I didn’t push for the make out.

  77. Mini-FR: camping trip with N=3, N=5 (oh boy) and several others potential targets. N=3 is active plate, N=5 I’d say might be recoverable. I find N=3 hotter and prettier, and the sex is much, much better than N=5. I was interested mostly in getting pre-selection and maybe line-up a future N=6 (or whatever) down the line as the logistics were going to be (and were) difficult enough that with N=3 the most daring thing I did was to finger here over her shorts, lift her top and suck each nipple once.

    I’m riding with another guy (has a gf not on this trip), N=5, Target C and target T. Target C is quite cute, not chubby but also not trim Rather nice boobs. Target T is rather sexual, very sexy body but not cute (she isn’t outright ugly though).

    Highlight 1: with this reduced group of 5 we go for a swim. Others changed prior, I change there. I do the towel thing a bit away from everybody but just at the end when my cock is covered (my ass if facing the water) I let go the towel and grab the shorts to pull them up. Turns out Target C saw this and can’t shut up about it, going like “Oh no I’m traumatized” and other BS like that. I hold frame and make it a repeat joke (I’m pretty sure she liked it).

    We merge with everyone else inc. N=3. Good-natured alpha common friend is also there (pretty sure N=3 is also attracted to him, he is quite the meat slab), as is another different good-natured alpha common friend with his super hot gf and several other hotties. It is a pretty fit group overall. N=5 and target C made some remarks that indicate they were rather self-conscious about themselves.

    Highlight 2: I grab target I, a mid-20s girl and arguably the hottest girl in the group, who does topless in public on occasion. We go for a swim and into isolation. Score! In isolation with our swimsuits wet I mention to her “Target C was wringing out her bikini a while ago and it was hilarious as it looked like she was pouring from her boobies” and she goes “I can do that LOL” and does the same, except when she did it she revealed her nipples while she was doing it. We sit down and I do a bit of Comfort talk talking about Nature, how she is adventurous, where would she like to live… I think there was a slight bubble forming with us sitting rather close to each other and I thought about going for the make out. In this (social) setting though a rejection is rather high stakes and I think that gave me pause and the moment was lost. To be fair she is a bit wacky and I wasn’t sure she wouldn’t blab about it either way. After a bit she reshuffled to sit a bit far from me (I didn’t chase) and that was it. It was still excellent to have done it as when we swam back everyone was basically waiting for us to get up and leave from that spot (but oh so much plausible deniability, I think some people thought we were swimming the whole time). Then next day in a more secluded location she went topless in front of N=3 and N=5 (and some others) and her boobs are just that gorgeous that they were being discussed by the other girls afterwards, particularly in a group with N=5, Target C, Target T, and me). Mind you all of these girls have rather nice breasts as far as I’m concerned, but Target I has really impressive, natural perky boobs (I had seen them twice before and it works in my favor that helped me act chill about it).

    To be continued later…

  78. Field Report
    Name: Miss J
    Date: Friday, July 17, 2020
    Hard 9 Feminine, attractive, not afraid to show it. 22 YO African American. 5’0. Size 0. All her weight is found in her tits and ass. Yoga enthusiast. Easily one of the hotter girls iv hooked up with. Top 5

    A little about me: 28, Caucasian, working full time in sales. 26 notches and counting. Growing up, my strategy consisted of night game, gutter game, banging girls in social circles etc but I never really felt like I had a handle relationships. Nothing I did was duplicatable and I desired better access to higher quality. I was convinced I was shy and not good enough to have the best girls I could find because I was scared of rejection. I discovered RP and Game about 2 yrs ago and have been diving into Day Game more and more over the past few months, applying the principles of intersexual dynamics and game along the way. Going from a typical shy guy to someone who can make his presence and intent known to the best-looking girl he can find while receiving good positive feedback feels empowering. A lot of improvements have been made and I feel like I am only getting started. I know I still have a lot to learn but I feel like I’m on the right path.

    I’m writing up this field report b/c I’m looking for some feedback. For starters IM fired up because this set was run technically correct and I feel the Day Game gods would be very pleased. Second its my first I Date and cold approach pull, with multiple bounces, coming to my apartment and doing virtually all the kinky stuff (except sex sorry guys I didn’t get the notch yet ). Thirdly my new friend is a virgin (still not sure if lying or not but I feel she is being sincere) and I would like to know what your experience has been with taking the v card from someone who says she’s saving herself for marriage.

    Field Report:

    I am a big fan of the London Day Game Model because I wanted to get out of the bar and into the streets. And it scared me and made me uncomfortable therefore I knew I needed to learn the skill. And now I can’t stop . I discovered it first from Krauser and have been using the free content that Tom Torero has online on youtube and his website. For those who are unfamiliar with the model it looks simply like this:

    Open
    Stack
    Vibe
    Invest
    Close

    The whole interaction lasted about 8 minutes, and that 8 minutes bought me 3 days worth of intimate company with one of the best looking black girls (never been w a black girl before either ) I’v ever met. Here’s how it panned out…

    1) Open

    I’m walking the Boardwalk by my apartment and I just finished up a few “Rapid Fire” warm up sets. This is a little hack you can use to get out of your mind and into a sociable mood. Just go right up to the first few people you see and like- male, female, group, whatever and pay them a compliment. I just practice my canned opener and then say I gotta run.

    “Excuse me can I tell you something really random” – (The answer is 99.999% yes)
    “I just noticed you and I think you look really nice/cute/beautiful/stylish today and I just had to tell you. I gotta run but have a great day!”
    With each compliment I give I feel more and more in my element and can feel myself buzzing with positive social energy. I’ll do 2 or 3 then hop into sets asap.

    I see this cute little African girl in a white and blue romper walking in the opposite direction to me and listening to music. I don’t get an IOI but I like what I see. She passes and I look back and using the “0” second rule, I turn and jog around her getting right in front of her while saying slowly, with a cheeky smile and laser eye contact.

    “Excuse me miss, can I tell you something really random? (yes) I saw you while you walked past and I think you look really cute today so I had to tell you”

    I received positive feedback in an enthusiastic response with nice and friendly tonality from her. Her eyes dilated and opened wildly as they fixed on my gaze. The corners of her mouth raise up towards her cheeks in a cheeky grin. From my perspective a very positive and good feeling elicited from my compliment. She verbally acknowledges the compliment.

    2) Stack

    I go right into a canned stack without a pause. “You look very creative, I’m going to guess you’re an Artist.”

    I elicit a positive enthusiastic response. My target giggles, her pupils dilate again and she smiles. The assumption is good and she corrects me that she went to school for finance. I use this topic to riff a vibing story.

    3) Vibe

    I acknowledge her and go right into my vibing story. The topic is working in finance. I riff the following in a fun/ flirty manner
    “When I think of you working in finance I picture you crunching numbers on the computer as fast as you can so you can go home and open a bottle of wine to decompress.”

    I can’t remember the exact hook point but I get a few strong hooks. We are playfully bantering back and forth and I tease her with some cold reading that I was surprisingly spot on with. She asks me questions and I share in a teasing frame. Specifically she asks me what my sign was and how old I am, both to which I challenge her to guess. We’re flirting back and forth.

    4) Invest

    This part was easy because this girl can’t shut up. She has a really big mouth. I just let her talk and talk and add in a question here or there to guide the conversation. I add info where I can about myself to ground the conversation. I’m dialing my energy down a bit here and taking the gas off of attraction and allow some comfort and rapport to build between her and I. I was receiving solid investment from her.

    5) Close

    I am sensing the set is coming to a close. She is giving me a time constraint that the needs to check her car to make sure she didn’t get a ticket and I am making a FTC as well so I go for the number close. I tell her this canned number close:

    “Well before you go and I go, another time, I’d like to invite you for a drink because I think you’re attractive. (I pull my phone out and begin assuming her area code and allow her to fill in the blanks). She gives me her number and I call her on the spot to make sure she saves my info correctly.

    I Date

    About 1 hour passes and I finish up my sets because there just isn’t much going on this day (I opened only one more set and got rejected…oh well) I’m walking and see Miss J once again walking in my direction (maybe she was day gaming too who knows lol). I wave her down and stop her again and now the vibe was like catching up with an old friend. We jump right into rapport but I am still being my natural flirty self and she’s being girly. She asks me why I didn’t ask her before to grab a drink today. I respond that I was going to walk to a pub a block away now for a drink and some dinner and I invite her to join. I am met with an enthusiastic yes.

    V1 – Pub

    We get drinks and we are vibing with good conversation. Miss J has a big mouth so this part was easy. We talked about movies, music, books, family, goals, values. Pretty much getting her life story here but maintaining a care free and nonchalant attitude. She sets up a a few double entendre for me and I make sure I take the bait every time, playfully. And I get good vibes at each joke. Good attraction and comfort. We are here for about 60 mins before I tell her we are going on an adventure. To which she happily follows my lead.

    V2- Ice cream

    We walk to an icecream spot one block away continuing attraction and comfort. We talk about past relationships, she gives me really good feedback about my approach (all positive), and dating in the 21st century. Miss J eats her ice cream like a little child and creates a huge mess. It melts on her chest and legs. I use this as an opportunity to escalate and, grabbing some napkins I clean her up with each drip. She’s giggling and can’t seam to get enough of this. Sexual tension is building.

    V3 – Bounce to my apartment

    She tells me she has to use the bath room. I say “Lets go back to mine. You can use the BR and we can watch a movie and chill in the AC”. She agrees and we go for a walk half way then uber the rest. I put on a movie and while she’s sitting next to me I see her tits from the side of her romper because she’s not wearing a bra. I bring her in close to me and we make out. I get her undressed and I’m going for the lay when she tells me she’s a virgin* (womp womp). In which case its really nbd to me either way. We spend some time in foreplay until she leaves. We agree on a time bridge to hit the beach the following afternoon.

    *at the time I wasn’t sure she was being authentic or not but I have a good feeling that she is telling the truth. After some playful fingering she has one of the tightest pussies I’ve ever felt and is telling me that she’s saving herself for marriage. I’m cool w taking the v card but I know it will take some comfort building. Any best practices on moving this forward to get the notch?

    Day 2

    Day 2 – I pick up where I left off with some attraction and comfort. We spend a few hours at the beach, bounce to my apartment. I escalate and the cloths fly off but don’t get farther than foreplay. We grab some food and walk back to my apartment. I get a little bit of LMR as shes sitting on my bed but I just let her talk herself out of it which worked in this case. One moment she’s explaining to me we can’t see each other and the next she’s naked on my bed (women lol). So I escalate and I was just barely inside of her but she couldn’t relax enough to let me in. We have done virtually everything under the sun at this point minus anal (maybe my next best option lol)

    Questions: With taking the V Card, what have you guys found best practice is? My gut tells me more comfort and just stay with the abundance mentality. I’ll spin the plate until I find someone better. We are both in agreeance we can keep this casual and I’m still going out to meet more women. What do you guys think?

    Conclusion: I am really happy with how this set panned out. I am having one of those “I can’t believe all this really happened” moments. Now I just cant wait to hit the streets again and again. Like I said I am only just getting and I know I still have a lot to learn. I am really excited to see where things go from here.

    As always, appreciate the feedback 🙂

  79. @Palma: given that it was months ago, I’m reposting the March FRs with N=5, the “no oral” girl.
    Here is the first one. This was posted 2nd of March. Feel free to skip.

    @Everyone: N=5 🙂 This is good strategically because N=2 and N=4 are out of the country and this helps not to “rely” too much on N=3.

    F-closing N=5 was fairly standard but a few observations overall on the “social circle” in question and so on, advice welcomed as always.

    I’m not really doing cold approach (I should do some actually), 3, 4 and 5 are from the same activity. 3 lives here which is great, 4 came for some months and went away, 5 came and will probably go away in some months.

    2 is coming to visit her family for Easter and arranged for some good logistic opportunities for me to bang her, and I said “How nice of you, I’d like that”.

    3 is going fine with lots of desire sex but sometimes I wonder. There have been few IOIs exchanged between her an a classic good natured alpha that is visiting for about a month. I actually really like the dude myself, he is one of those that doesn’t AMOG but wants to help you get better. Just to put it in context, this guy is a really strong, large muscles fitness trainer type and he is also quite skilled and good at teaching. As a result he is often surrounded by some three or four girls waiting their “turn” to have a go. I’ve also been learning from him which also helps DHV the dude even more, but I don’t think I should pass up on good training just because of N=3 and as I said, he already has plenty of pre-selection.
    What I’ve been doing about the IOIs is make fun of it with “I’m pretty sure he likes you ;)” and, although not quite as explicit as that but that’s the vibe “Ooh you’d like to fuck him wouldn’t you”. As usual, spreading my attention to other girls (I’m also fairly pre-selected, but not to the extent this guy is when he is around).
    We’re explicitly not exclusive so that’s about it. I try not to let it show and I think I’m actually not super jealous, but sometimes it does bother me a bit but I’m sure that actually telling her something like “you know, you could just not encourage him” would be the wrong move and a massive DLV for me.

    4 is pressing me to go visit her in her country but she isn’t in Europe and I hate long trips and would absolutely hate to get there and she isn’t feeling like fucking (or whatever) so I thought better not to go at all. She is clearly upset at this and gave me the “We’ll talk later” (there is a post by Rollo about it). I think she may fall out of being a plate and I’d like to manage the situation in the best possible way.

    5 F closed her recently, very conveniently as it is much better to have more than one plate active.
    Here is something interesting. I K closed and carried her in my arms to the bedroom and started undressing her, quite hard, lots of kissing and I’m like “hmm why is she not blowing me already” move my dick close to her mouth and she goes “nu uhh” and I’m like “oh” and my dick nearly instantly deflates. Apparently for her BJs are a relationship thing, which is super funny considering PiV apparently isn’t! Because BJs are just the thing to get a dick up, it seriously took me like 30 min to get sufficiently hard again to get a condom on (after one failed condom attempt) and get inside her pussy. I have to admit that was a massive relief as I was thinking “Damn I have to F close her if I want to plate her”, and that pressure obviously was not helping me get it back up (that, and that just the night before I had cum all over N=3’s tits, which made some very nice photos which N=3 had sent me just prior to me N=5 arriving at my place).
    Anyway, I get into her finally and no one came (apparently she has trouble), after going at it for a while I get the condom out, tell her to “stay the night so I fuck you in the morning” and “Let’s sleep naked” (she does) and I’m rock hard again “just thinking of fucking you in the morning” so I have another go at her, get the condom out without coming and prepare to sleep. Then at some stage she starts a very nice hand job (which would have made me finish but I stopped her) and then in the morning I easily got a condom on and fucked her hard and get off. She loved it that I came.

  80. @Palma: this is the second FR, posted on March 12.
    Here goes the repost…

    @Everyone: update on N=5 aka no BJ girl (she is like 32-33 BTW). I was away from town and I sent her some message giving her a helpful suggestion on something, on International Women Day, and she went a bit off the rails and it devolved into a bit of a feminist rant. I replied for a while, not apologizing but apparently not passing the shit test either, then it was getting ridiculous and I stopped replying. That must have passed the shit test, so she apparently cools off and demured a bit with “I still meant what I said but it’s also important to be aware of how things are said it and I’m aware of how harshly I brought it to your attention”.
    So I replied more, made her laugh, and set up another meeting during this week for her to spend the night and the following morning. Don’t talk with her since, busy banging N=3 on the preceding day, and then she goes “Still on for tonight” and I go “Yes”. She arrives on time as I’m coming from the gym just as she arrives. She offers to cook while I shower. Eat and proceed to bang, straightforward. I didn’t try to push towards oral, and because of the condoms I take forever to cum (but I do). I wonder about the quality of the sex and whether it is actually desire sex (probably isn’t, doesn’t compare favorably to the others). It’s not quite starfish and she changes positions as I tell her to (that’s more than I can say about my ex, N=1).

    After that I go eat some more and she joins me in the kitchen and starts shit testing me, she basically really, really wants to know if I’m banging someone else and tried to justify that I should tell her in several ways, particularly she wants to know if I slept / sleep with someone from the social circle (in fact, yes, N=3 and N=4 although N=4 left; but N=5 doesn’t know that, you do).

    I start with “I don’t kiss and tell”, then tell her “for me it is enough to tell people I’m not exclusive” and “I care about my privacy and the privacy of whoever I have sex with” and “I wouldn’t tell anyone else about you either, that is what makes sense to me”. She is giving me several spurious reasons why I’m just justifying my behaviour for my own benefit, that I’m misleading, that this is dishonest, whatever you get the idea. I don’t nuke this massive shit test but I hold my position. At the start of it I thought it was a “secret society” test to see if I’d spill the beans on banging her but by the end of it I actually think it was actually trying to slot me into BB rather than AF?
    Around the end of it instead of trying to know who else am I sleeping with, wants to know just if I’m currently sleeping with someone else and I go “I still think that saying I’m not exclusive is enough, but at least that makes a bit more sense to me. I’ll think more about it”.

    I got a bit pissed off at being interrogated in my own house but probably didn’t show it too much (or, enough). I check my phone and I have an opportunity to go do something else the next morning. I had originally planned on spending the morning with her (see above) but I would rearrange even if she hadn’t spent several minutes harassing me. So I tell her and she goes “Yes sure, go ahead and go do that instead” So I go “Cool”. She got upset about that (obviously) and asks if I changed my plans because she was annoying me. I tell her no, I’d want to go do this regardless.
    She eventually says that is “a bit shitty”, “doesn’t like feeling like something better came up and I changed into it” and I shrug tell her she canceled on my once (first time I invited her over, before we banged) and a bit afterwards while she is still stewing about it I say something else (don’t even recall) and she tells me to “fuck off” and I smile. Then I tell her to sleep naked because I like the feeling and she says “I know, that’s why I’m keeping the t-shirt on”… But sleeps with no panties (LOL). I sleep naked. We kiss goodnight, I make her breakfast, she leaves.

    I’m not happy about her Women day rants and all the shit tests. I’m thinking of “staying in the set” to learn more and to see if I can turn it around on the third bangs, but I’m also wondering just NEXT-ing already.

  81. Oatis

    Great FR. It’s a drug for a while… Nothing more fun than blowing up some random chicks day like that. She’s just going around her day… Dozens of guys looking at her and wishing and then

    BOOM!!!

    You roll up and take over… Lol And she is just swept away literally.

    Enjoy. For guys struggling with cold approach if you keep up and follow game technical game you will get to this point. The point where it’s lots of fun and you can’t NOT go open girls.

    Now I’m not a big fan of the London Day Game model but it has enough cribbed Mystery Method in it (language changed) that it can work once you get passed the direct opens.

    Oatis – did you really not want to instadate off the bat or where you playing it safe? Think about that part.

    On the V card I have nothing to add except always regretted not taking it, and had a couple of girls circle back with the same regret that it wasn’t me.

    So go forward and do you.

    Good stuff

  82. @Everyone: with the 2 reposts above (feel free to skip, obviously), I will also add some details on what happened recently when I got N=5 to my place in July but didn’t bang. She had pre-warned me before I saw her at the birthday party that she had put on weight (and she visibly did in her belly, rest of the body is still quite fine but it is a shame she let herself go). At my place after having lunch and chilling for a bit this exchange happens:

    N5: “Do I look fatter? Be honest!”
    IAS: “Ahah. You’d have to get naked for me to compare properly”
    N5: “Ahah very funny. But really, tell me”
    IAS: “…” Eye contact.
    IAS: “I can only really compare if you are naked :D”
    N5: “bla bla”

    In hindsight this was probably the best time to go for the makeout and bang, saying something like “Here I’ll show you what I mean”. But I actually wasn’t feeling it, because of the feminism BS, the relatively crappy bangs, no oral “rule” and her outright saying “no sex” (I knew it is a shit test, but it also raises the stakes if I fumble and she denies)… It was conceivably she would blow up on my face. Maybe it was fear on my part, but I am wary of this one. I’m sure she was thinking of sex and the bang was on the table if I had made better moves. But what actually happened was:

    IAS: “Look… If you really want to know… Are you hot? Yep. Were you hotter? Absolutely.”
    N5, shocked: “IAS!”
    IAS: “You said you wanted me to be honest…”
    IAS: “Anyway look on the bright side – at least I’m not trying to bang you :D”
    N5: “Yes. Thanks for that, really”

    My last line there might have been a bit cruel but it wasn’t intentional on my part and she thanked me for it LOL. I did laugh inside my head after I said it, though.
    This was literally the week before the camping trip on the weekend.

  83. Back to the camping trip…

    Alpha buddy is henceforth Mr. T (the one from his birthday outing).

    Highlight 3: I’m “tormenting” Target C about seeing my ass in front of Target T and N=5. Before setting up for the night people go to brush teeth and Mr. T and I have electric toothbrushes so of course vibrator insinuations pop-up and I make Target C, T and N=5 laugh (in the two instances that I banged her, N=5 used my e-toothbrush, I just swapped a new brush head in for her).

    Highlight 4: I sat this one out because I don’t drink and I like to sleep early (I’d make an exception on the sleep thing if I’m banging). It is interesting for confirming what we know about female intra-sexual competition. N=3 and N=5 stayed up until quite late with Mr. T drinking wine. Non-target S (NTS) is another girl which isn’t a target for me (she has a nice body with fake boobs but the face doesn’t appeal to me and her neediness is also quite a turn-off). NTS was assigned to share a tent with another girl which isn’t relevant right now, and Target I was assigned to share the tent with Mr. T. Target I goes to NTS (in front of me) and says she isn’t comfortable sharing with a guy she doesn’t know so well and asks for a swap. NTS, which very apparently has the hots Mr. T (well, pretty much all of them do but less openly, although it is obvious with RP-vision) latches onto this opportunity and basically goes to where he is with N=3, N=5 and apparently pleads in a very, very awkward way in a long back and forth discussion until he eventually relents and does agree to sleep in her tent. How do I know this? Because both N=3 and N=5 (separately) insisted on telling me all about it (ugh).

    With N=5 I didn’t bother, but to N=3 I explained that it was Target I that didn’t want to be with Mr. T and not NTS starting that particular confusion. Then N=3 goes “Still Mr. T handled it very well, it was just super awkward for everyone”. I just LOL at this and say I would have handled it much better by saying “Let me check your tent”, then isolating NTS so that the convo doesn’t happen in front of N=3 and N=5. N=3 goes “Oh yes”. Then I say Mr. T should not have gone “Everything is fine with me, you choose” to a girl and particulary to an indecisive girl like NTS – if I didn’t want to sleep in her tent I’d just go “Nope” and if I didn’t mind I’d just go “Sure” and avoid a big fuss. Then I go “Do you think the conversation would have lasted more than 5 minutes with me?” and “N=3” goes “No!”.

    @Sentient might recall I mentioned some months ago I’m not thrilled that N=3 also has the hots for Mr. T and I wonder if I shouldn’t have launched into the above explanation at all, but I think the way I did it DHV’d as a display of competence me rather than DLV’d me as jealousy.

    Beyond this, Target C and Target T were badmouthing NTS in front of me pretty much the whole trip based on her being all touchy feely with Mr. T and with another similarly large muscly hunk. And then they complaing that it is men that slut shame…

    Incidentally, N=3 and N=5 are getting along quite well as both told me (again separately) how nice the other one is (@HABD goes “3-some”!). I don’t think they suspect I banged both of them.

    Highlight 5: Following from the above situation, I didn’t sleep so well because of others making noise… N=3, N=5 and Mr. T up to 3 am talking and drinking wine, then Mr. T and NTS eventually get to her tent and have an hilarious conversation involving him saying “I’m not coming in yet” while she is changing inside, to which I pull an Archer and go “Phrasing!” inside my tent, and then as Mr. T and NTS are still talking, Target I goes from inside her tent “Can you quiet down please!” (I love that girl), with Mr. T apologizing profusely.
    Still, I get up early next morning. It is a while before next person wakes up, an older but very fit woman with a daughter and go for a stroll with her. N=3 wakes up next and sees me with the sexy MILF. I go to N=3’s tent and as everyone is sleeping, when the MILF is doing something else I kiss N=3 and finger her through the shorts. She goes “IAS!”. I get her up and go for a stroll with her. I lead her into a decent isolation (hilariously she thinks she led me there). It would be possible to get a quick BJ there but I just grab her tight pushing her pussy into my cock while we make out, spin her around then lift her blouse and taste both her nipples. She is smiling profusely. N=5 and Mr. T are up as we return so I leave them and sure enough N=3 and N=5 clump with Mr. T. I LOL at the predictability.

    Highlight 6: Near the end of the trip N=5 is furiously typing into her phone and I go mimic her fast finger movements. She looks at me and just snaps “How about you fuck off”. It was loud enough that it is likely someone else in the group overheard it. I look at other, shrug my shoulders and go “Ok” and go meet up with some of the other girls. Then when we are going back in the vehicle, the two of us are in the back seat and she goes “I’m sorry I snapped at you”. I go “Ok”. She tries to justify herself that I was implying she was staring at her phone when we were in a beautiful spot of Nature and I go “For the record, I was just impressed at the speed that you were texting”. She apologizes again.

    Highlight 7: Among the guys in the group there is handsome, nice and fit dude that is quite a bit short. Sure enough at the end of the trip Target C eventually goes “Damn if he had 20 more cm he would be such a man” and I’m like “LOL excuse me? 20 cm where :D” and she goes “Ahah IAS stop being such an idiot, height of course”.

    Highlight 8: when the photos start getting shared there are a few photos of me (often taken by some other guy) where I’m grabbing different girls around the waist. I make some (naughty) jokes based on some pics in particular to Target C and T to gauge their interest for the near future. Target T says she is loving it and Target C goes “I laughed so much this weekend that my tummy hurts”.

  84. IAS

    I want you to think about this. And this is for Morpheus as well…

    So you are hanging out with these “hawt guys” and they are getting tons of IOIs right?

    And yet it is you who is fucking his way through all these girls… Lol

    How about that?

    This is why I say never think about other guys in a set. Be aware of the dynamics you see, but don’t sweat things. Almost all the time the guy does not fuck the girl you are going for.

    Shots fired Morpheus… Be aware. When you get out to in person cold approach pick up you will have to deal with other guys. And no doubt hot girls will always always always have “hawt guys” around them, blowing up their phones etc. But if you play The Game and don’t get hung up on externals YOU will be the guy fucking them.

  85. @IAS

    I’ve skip read this and will look properly later but for now kick Mr T off that fucking pedestal. He’s probably ghey anyway.

    Or if he isn’t, pretend he is.

    ===> going by the book he should be treated like an ugly girl.

  86. @Palma and Sentient: I wrote about it precisely because I think I am having some insecurity with it and I don’t like it.

    It is true, N=3, 4 and 5 I banged despite Mr. T being around at some time or the other and I’m over 90% sure none of them got banged by Mr. T. He used to just visit, now he actually moved to the city so now I’ll be forced to deal with it and improve from myself from the opportunity.

    I count as hot myself. Mr. T actually slightly shorter than me but just really wide and he is lower bf, a very flashy physique that gets noticed.
    Pre-Selection is still one of, if not the best things you can get in this game, and Mr. T gets heavily pre-selected, over 90% sure he isn’t gay and has a gf (but not here now that he moved, so…). Haven’t seen him actually put the moves towards banging any of the possible targets but he is at very least decent at Game from a few past instances I witnessed myself him verbally teasing girls.

    BTW for the “Only looks matters” guys (I’m not one of them), the same girl (Target C in the FR above) that mentioned that the short guy would be great if he had 20 cm more, also said in a separate instance something like “When I go back and look at my exes none of them look that hot (…)” So Game definitely is King (whatever much or little her exes had to seduce her, it was with Game and not looks).

    I’ll add two more things.

    I forgot to add that after her visit “Definitely just for food” where we didn’t bang, but prior to getting there, N=5 was assigned to sleep on a 2-person tent with the short guy. She messages me and asks if she can sleep on my (2-person) tent because “We know each other better already”. I don’t want that with N=3 there and frankly I can do without the extra blue balls and told her “I was counting on sleeping alone on that night”.

    And just to finish my jealousy plotline…
    N=3 had a 3-person tent and ended up staying alone but had offered space in her tent really early when NTS was looking for a spot to sleep in, and N=3 made a point of writing that spots were available for either boys or girls that book for it (and I’m pretty sure she wasn’t subconsciously thinking of me). The group generally forgot about that as she offered early and they are a disorganized lot. Then the whole NTS / Mr. T awkward thing happened.
    N=3 and I are talking after I go about how I would have handled it better and N=3 outright says she would have “offered a tent spot to Mr. T as well but privately and without making a fuss like NTS”. I suspected she would have offered since the early offer for boys or girls but it was interesting to see it confirmed blatantly. I don’t think anything would happen if they shared the tent but clearly you guys can see I would not like that to have happened. I acted in a couple of ways that ended up reducing that likelihood, for example, I nudged NTS to go buy her own tent.

Speak your mind

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