Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

15,461 comments on “Field Reports

  1. Surprised none of y’all mentioned the other reason she asking about your friends: she wants to hookup with you, and set her friend up with yours. Because she assumes he must be cool too.

    Guessing y’all must not run into that situation that often…☺️

  2. @mario

    “My friend just pulled a girl and took her home”

    “I just had dinner with friends and wanted to get a drink before going home”

    Yeah these are solid.

  3. @Palma /@Sentient

    Yes, what Sentient said. Doesn’t even have to be as obvious as Sentient’s scenario 1 – you could even be having a chat with the girl next to you at the bar and she asks you where your friends are in an obviously challenging tone of voice – aka a shit test. And you go into your shit test response.

    But more generally, I think the point I was trying to make is that you don’t have to be “gaming” all the time. Sure, you need to know where you are in the interaction and have a plan for where you’re going, but it’s fine to have a normal conversation with a girl and tell her where your friends are (or tell her what your job is without avoiding the question).

    It’s like if a girl asks me my job, I usually say “gigolo”. I think Sentient says “bean farmer” or something. So yes, I’m avoiding directly answering. But after the girl has laughed, if she asks me a second time, I’ll just tell her what I do. I want to avoid “dancing monkey overgame”.

    This is the same sort of thing. If it is a shit test, then deal with it as a shit test. If it is NOT a shit test (and in my experience it usually isn’t), then yes you could use it to joke around (like saying “gigolo” or “bean farmer” in response to the job question) – but you have to be very careful about overgaming.

  4. @AR Culum kfg Blaximus

    Culum
    “I assume it is linked to the whole “pie is shrinking” thing”

    Could be. Also could be overproduction of elites: the pie is growing but the number of pie-eaters is growing faster. The effects are pretty much the same, though. Partly because a “college degree” from 1999 is not quite the same thing as a “college degree” from 2019, and neither one is the same thing that Granpa Boomer got back in 1969..

    this is a good point… and for some reason it kind of bugged me…lol… and not bc it was a good point…lol

    it was bc i was missing something… and then the cog diss pinged for me…

    it’s actually an observation of the mechanism of system destruction…

    in addition to the actual value of the ‘college degree’ going down… relative to everything…lol… the UMC birthrate is lower than replacement levels, so where does that ‘overproduction’ come from?…

    since all of those UMC kids with connections are getting incorporated back into the UMC, the only place that increase can really come from, given the ‘progressive’ ideology needed to be included, is from girls and POC… and there are way too many people in those two demographics to all be included, so how does a girl or POC stand out?… it used to be based on merit, but that’s no longer the case…

    and then kfg’s comment provided some insight…

    Note that while it still exists the benefit to the UMC is being actively destroyed by the progressive contingent…

    why do progressives want to kill the golden goose?… they really don’t… or at least most of the useful idiots don’t see that process in play…they just want the UMC benefits… look at AOC…lol… but that’s the only way they can get in…

    their behavior is bc that is the only way they can stand out as being worthy of inclusion… by being more ideologically pure than some other girl or POC that might also be considered for inclusion into the UMC… and the way to be more ideologically pure is to go juuust a little bit farther on the ‘progressive’ spectrum than the last ‘candidate’…

    and the various UMC players can’t really stop it bc doing so would put that person at risk of being excluded from the group… so they have to agree that the progressive contingent is ‘good’… no matter how far out there the ‘progressive’ is… even as it is actively destroying the UMC group…

    rinse and repeat… til we are where we are now… clown world…

    [honk!]…lol

    good luck!

  5. no matter how far out there the ‘progressive’ is… even as it is actively destroying the UMC group

    All leading to your basic “Marxist” revolutionary stage 4 UMC purge… Followed by economic desolation.

    This is why I can’t wait for RT’s next book on “Religion”. We have entered the religious furor phase which will reward further “purity tests”.

  6. a). They just went home but I was having fun and decided to stay [if later in the night]
    b) I got here early, they’re on the way [if earlier in the night]
    c) My friend just pulled a girl and took her home [this was our resident PUA genius YaReally’s preferred option as it sexualizes the conversation while answering the question]
    d) I’m out alone – I didn’t feel like sitting at home tonight [this is optimal because it is most authentic but you need to be congruent to it – it won’t work if she can see that you feel weird about going out alone]

    A is “meh.” And you’ll likely need to know why they went home.

    B puts you in a bind of having to get texts or have friends on the way. You set yourself up to be caught in a lie. Or you turn on a clock to bounce before they don’t show. And when they don’t show they’ve blown you off and you are not the cool guy. This one is terrible.

    C makes you all “players” and now you’ll get more shit tests and ASD.

    D is fine if you go full on

    If you’re going to make up stories your stories have to hold together and make sense. If you’re going to make up stories don’t make up boring stories. Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense. A girl won’t mind lies as long as she can pretend they aren’t lies or they’re so ridiculous it is just fun and games. When she flat out catches you lying though… Those responses create all sorts of places to get caught lying or worse getting caught being defensive about lying and defensive about being out alone.

    Always default to some sort of irrational self-confidence. Roissy’s confident jerk-boy. Cocky funny. Everything that might be wrong with you is in point of fact something that is fucking amazing about you. Amused Mastery. That’s what is at the heart of Palma’s recommendations:

    Ignore and continue

    Agree and amplify

    Reduce to absurdity

    I suggest also a thing to keep in mind is girls can lack confidence and have shit game. You might just be getting chicks that don’t know how to flirt. There is a lot of talk about how full girls are of themselves but some of that is likely feminine bravado. You need some confidence for her too. Hypergamy doesn’t care but that’s because it is always doubting itself.

  7. Palmasailor
    Keep doing it everywhere until your brain is ready wired so as that is who you now are. It’s the default setting now.

    Neuroplasticity at work. Practice doesn’t make perfect, practice makes permanent. Eventually that cocky/funny becomes a part of a man’s personality, and that’s just fine.

    Culum
    a)
    b)
    c)
    d)

    Geeze, even my mind began to wander reading that. Painful. What comes after, do you read the weather forecast off of your phone out loud?
    Look, there’s many times in life when being earnest is important, but flirting with girls at night is not one of them.

  8. Culum

    But more generally, I think the point I was trying to make is that you don’t have to be “gaming” all the time

    Huh. My first question is “why”, but that leads to other questions later on .

    In a flirting situation, why stop your Game at all?

  9. “C makes you all “players” and now you’ll get more shit tests and ASD.”

    Nah. And who said shit tests are a bad thing? Speaking as an expert liar, here’s how I’d phrase Yareally’s line to not trigger ASD:

    Hoe: Where are your friends?
    j: I don’t know. Last time I saw him he was talking to this girl upstairs. Let’s try to go find them. (excuse to isolate her).

    Now your upstairs

    Huh they were just here like 10 minutes ago lol. Let me text him to see where he’s at.

    5 mins later

    j: ohhh I know where they at haha.
    Hoe: where
    j: that fucker haha
    Hoe: what?
    j: they in a cab on the way to his place. Ah well. I think that’s what separates guys from girls tho.
    Hoe: what does
    j: like if you just want to go home with somebody. Guys can just leave. Where’s with girls. They gotta ask permission from their friends and shit (giving her a challenge. Setting an independent frame(
    Hoe: um that’s not true. Blah blah blah

    😎

  10. J — “C makes you all “players” and now you’ll get more shit tests and ASD.”

    Nah. And who said shit tests are a bad thing? Speaking as an expert liar, here’s how I’d phrase Yareally’s line to not trigger ASD:

    Fair enough. But you note that you have an entire story ready to go as well. You didn’t/don’t tell a lie without having thought the thing through and knowing you have to corroborate it.

  11. @HABD
    While I don’t disagree with your observations, I think that this also has something to do with the overall feminization of America. If the UMC is a club with benefits, then people want in. In our current feminized crab-bucket world, you don’t climb your way into that club, you drag the club down to your level. See also: Army Rangers, Firemen, Green Berets, etc.

  12. @th’wolf

    @HABD
    While I don’t disagree with your observations, I think that this also has something to do with the overall feminization of America.

    this is called the Feminine Imperative (FI) around here…lol

    and it does s*ck… and not in a good way…lol

    If the UMC is a club with benefits, then people want in. In our current feminized crab-bucket world, you don’t climb your way into that club, you drag the club down to your level. See also: Army Rangers, Firemen, Green Berets, etc.

    true… which eventually ends in that Marxist purge @ Sentient mentioned…

    good luck!

  13. Palma

    “£4.99 or £9.99?”

    For a cache of tried and true lines from London’s #1 Dutch Uncle?

    Gaaad. More like £100.

  14. Well men, I ended that 3 year highschool LTR in person. I told her we are over and did not go into detail or be too emotional or flowery. want to pursue my personal goals now and better myself. That includes but is not limited to becoming a national champion wrestler in college, becoming an orthopedic surgeon, and developing myself by learning how to apply RP to make my future relations with women on my terms. Thank you all for who supported me in making this change to better my life. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

    1. @younshagger

      “Well men, I ended that 3 year highschool LTR in person. I told her we are over and did not go into detail or be too emotional or flowery. want to pursue my personal goals now and better myself”

      Many congratulations! You have taken your first step into a wider, more abundant world. 😊

      TantumErgo

  15. How is it that I keep meeting these hot but crazy women? A plate I banged 3 times last year has moved to my city for school. The last time banged her was December when she came to my city for an interview, texted me and invited me to bang her at her hotel.

    When we meet up it’s mental. Then I don’t hear from her from months and I don’t chase. But I did reach out at New Year’s and she blew me off. THen she came to my city for some reason and didn’t contact me. I saw her at a club and realized she was with another dude so stayed away. That was February.

    Suddenly out of the blue a week ago she contacts me and is texting me about some event. I escalate text game and she responds. It’s on. I invite her over and she agrees. She comes over and within 10 minutes we are banging like she just got out of prison and I’m on shore leave. I banged her 4 times. Then we went out to a club. I was djing. She was going to stay over because she lives quite far and public transport ends at midnight. All set…

    She wants to keep this whole thing on the downlow so people we know don’t gossip. Cool. Suddenly a friend of mine who doesn’t know the deal is hovering. You know this guy…super eager, super helpful…super beta. Suddenly just as we end they come up to me and he says “She lives near me and I have a car so i’ll give her a lift home.” I’m like huh? But a plate is a plate so I shrug it off. But somehow this bothered me. I’ve banged a lot of hot girls, this is the first time a plate I JUST banged leaves with another guy. Radio silence for a week. I’m not going to text her after that mitch move.

    I got out the other night to one of my Latin nights and suddenly the two of them walk in together. Two things strike me. She’s using this guy for a ride to get back late. This guy is chasing her and is in orbiter mode. He is a friend of mine and quite a decent guy. I really don’t want to get into the “She’s a plate so stay away” thing. I really didn’t want to be involved in whatever head games or drama this HB8 in her 20’s is playing.

    The reason I post this is not for advice but to show how completely self-serving women are. Anyone who denies AWALT is dreaming.

    She’ll be back at some point when she wants to bang. But I really don’t like the whole drama here of the orbiter.

    A few learnings for you newbs:

    This is hypergamy. Girls are out to cultivate orbiters who serve a purpose: a bang, a ride, attention of any kind. You want to be the guy she bangs or the guy who gives her a ride to shit?
    Never react. It’s better to ghost than to engage. She wants a drama. Girls love the “you’re jeaaaaalllllousssss”.
    Spin other plates so stupid shit like this doesn’t affect you.
    GIrls in their 20’s do this shit and if as an older dude you get upset by it they see you as weak. I think there was a post here about “Just Get It…”

    Discuss.

  16. @ Kxnx


    Hi guys, I am relatively new to all these, I only heard about Rational Male from my colleague at work cause I was talking about my girl problems. I haven’t gotten real far in the book but I was wondering if there was a way to get out of an IJBF friendship. She says she’s not looking to date right now, but says she’s in a situationship with with some guy. I tell myself oh the guy doesn’t like her back to feel better about myself. Says she won’t lead me on and she would be fine if I didn’t want to be friends anymore. I understand she has more power since clearly she doesn’t like me as much as I do. I need help, I want to know if there’s anything I could do to redeem myself, I really like her company so I’m torn cause I don’t want to let go.”

    re·deem
    /rəˈdēm/

    verb

    verb: redeem; 3rd person present: redeems; past tense: redeemed; past participle: redeemed; gerund or present participle: redeeming

    compensate for the faults or bad aspects of (something).
    “a disappointing debate redeemed only by an outstanding speech”
    synonyms: save, compensate for the defects of, rescue, justify, vindicate More
    “one feature alone redeems the book”

    •compensating, compensatory, extenuating, offsetting, qualifying, redemptive;
    rareextenuatory

    “his work is not without redeeming features”

    •do something that compensates for poor past performance or behavior.
    “they redeemed themselves in the playoffs by pushing the Detroit Red Wings to a seventh and deciding game”
    synonyms: vindicate, save/free from blame, absolve, remove guilt from
    “he fell in that race but fully redeemed himself next time out”

    •(of a person) atone or make amends for (error or evil).
    “the thief on the cross who by a single act redeemed a life of evil”

    synonyms: atone for, make amends for, make restitution for
    “he had decided to stop trying to redeem the sins of America”

    •save (someone) from sin, error, or evil.
    “he was a sinner, redeemed by the grace of God”

    synonyms: save, free/save/deliver from sin, turn from sin, convert, purge/absolve of sin
    “she committed herself to redeeming sinners”

    gain or regain possession of (something) in exchange for payment.
    “his best suit had been redeemed from the pawnbrokers”

    synonyms: retrieve, regain, recover, get back, reclaim, repossess, have something returned, rescue; More
    buy back, repurchase
    “Billy has to redeem his drums from the pawnbrokers”

    •Finance
    repay (a stock, bond, or other instrument) at the maturity date.

    •exchange (a coupon, voucher, or trading stamp) for merchandise, a discount, or money.

    synonyms: exchange, give in exchange, swap, barter, cash in, convert, turn in, return, trade in
    “this voucher can be redeemed at any branch of the shop”

    •pay the necessary money to clear (a debt).
    “owners were unable to redeem their mortgages”
    synonyms: pay off, pay back, clear, discharge, square, honor, make good
    “Parliament absolved the King from all obligation to redeem this debt”

    •archaic
    buy the freedom of.
    3. fulfill or carry out (a pledge or promise).

    There is no redemption because there’s nothing to redeem here.

    If you find yourself romantically inclined towards a woman, and she says to you ” Let’s just be friends “, this thing is done and over. Move along.

    Actually her reasoning for saying this means nothing. She knew you were interested before you think she did. Evidently there’s something she likes or needs from you, but romance/sex isn’t on the menu.

    It’s not worth it to try to stick it out and change her mind, or live in the land of Hope.

    In reality, there are an even dozen women you could ” feel ” the same about, that could reciprocate. You can’t waste time on any ” one ” of them because you will have to go through a bunch of them in pretty rapid succession to find what it is your looking for.

    In the looking phase, you will grow in understanding about chicks, and hey, you might just decide you want something different or ” less ” from them.

    Finish reading The Rational Male, and come here and read through the archives. That is a better use of your time than trying to ” redeem ” yourself to someone that is being clear about how they see you.

    But by all means, start hitting up/chatting with women asap. Time’s wastin’ man.

  17. Wala

    You know i love you bro. Your whole arc… So…

    “Discuss”

    K.

    This here

    “Girls are out to cultivate orbiters who serve a purpose: a bang, a ride, attention of any kind. You want to be the guy she bangs or the guy who gives her a ride to shit?”

    What’s the difference between orbiting to bang or not? A bang. Still all on her terms.

    Too much of this mindset will result in moar bang’s short term but less lomg term. They wont ever get to chasing. If you think that their chasing isn’t possible, then there is the avenue for growth.

  18. @Walawala

    “he says “She lives near me and I have a car so i’ll give her a lift home […] But somehow this bothered me.”

    Why? The fuck was she suppose to say to the chode?

    She can’t tell him, she was planning on going back with you after the show, because she wants to keep this shit on the down low.

    and she can’t be all, “nah chode, I’d much rather pay a really expensive cab fare, than get a free ride back home from you” cause its past midnight. She already banged you a billion times (maybe its an age thing, but after I bang girls, 4+ times in a night, I don’t want anything to do with them after. I just want her to get the fuck up on outta here, or I get outta there if I’m at their place. None of this, “hey lets go do some cool shit now!!” especially if she’s a plate).Now she gets a free ride back home from chode. Classic AF BB.

    “this is the first time a plate I JUST banged leaves with another guy.”

    To get some sleep, bruh. Not sleep with him….

    “She’s using this guy for a ride to get back late.”

    Free rides > expensive cab fare. Shit I’d do the same thing if I was her lol. #frugal.

    “I really didn’t want to be involved in whatever head games or drama this HB8 in her 20’s is playing.”

    https://media.giphy.com/media/hEc4k5pN17GZq/giphy.gif

    Where them head games at tho? Cause I don’t see em lol.

  19. @sentient. exactly that’s the point. Every interaction with women is a choice and a balance. But ideally it has to be on your terms.

    I’d rather be the guy who bangs her than the guy who chauffeurs her around and bangs her.

    But the other part of my discussion is to recognise when you’re being played. This isn’t the firSt time a girl I was banging shows up where I’m at with an orbiter.

    The last time was 3 years ago and I mismanaged it creating more drama for myself. This time I stopped, dropped and rolled away. It’s what was better for me.

    That’s the arc…

  20. Hey guys. I have a legitimate question that may pose for debate. After ending this relationship and looking back, it is really making me question the meaning of “love”. Mostly, the whole “love” feeling in relationships is flowery and inherently designed to reinforce the feminine imperative in the minds of men. That being said, does love exist? If you look at it rationally, “love” in postmodern, western society serves hypergamy. I said “I love you (insert cringy pet name here)”so many times in my last LTR and now that it is over it is making me question did I ever love her and is it just a flowery term society throws around to indoctrinate men to fem-centric SMP? I understand modern science now tells us the neurotransmitters associated with what humans call “love”, but even this just makes me think that it is an emotion designed in our evolutionary psychology to increase chances of offspring and adequate conditioning of offspring. I am still figuring this out for myself but to me love is having the support to conquer your path in life and having someone that you can pass these opportunities to succeed to a future family. It is a tricky topic to analyze.

  21. @palmasailor obviously to each their own, but is it best to never say “I love you” in a relationship/marriage to keep fostering desire? What do you think about the meaning of the word as applied to sexually intimate relationships (especially LTR and marriage).

  22. @J, Sentient, Serious question…I didn’t react but why did it bother me? It has all the classic AFBB, I was exhausted. So why did it bother me?

    This is the ideal set up and it’s the set up I have with all my plates? We text when we want to meet up or bang.

    But in this scenario when she showed up the other night with chode…who is a friend….why didn’t I just go up and say “Hey! What up? Oy…” Instead I kept a low profile and left feeling awkward. It was uncharacteristic of me. No one knew but I don’t want to go through situations feeling like that.

  23. @ youngshagger

    I haven’t been in love for a woman for years. I like sex and there are still times a woman’s body takes my breath away, but the whole Being With a Woman ‘thing’ feels totally pointless. It’s like considering going back to a job you used to do. I used to see an attractive woman and think, ‘Wow! You’re beautiful! You’re wonderful! I wish I could get you alone!’ but that doesn’t happen anymore. I see an attractive woman and think, ‘You’re cute. I’d enjoy having sex with you. But I also know how much work I’d have to do to get you into bed and … nah. I have better things to do.’

  24. @ Palmasailor

    I wasn’t trying to interfere with your mentoring youngshagger. I have a 21-year-old son myself who one day wants to have a family. But I think youngshagger raised an interesting question: Where does love fit in?

    Is there a difference between being in love with a woman and ONEitis? I mean, I get that the whole Blue Pill notion of Love is a complete lie—!00% fantasies and untruths. But Red Pill material is all about mastering Game, creating and maintaining frame, understanding hypergamy, banging hotties, etc., etc. There’s nothing about love. I’ve gone through a ton of Rollo’s blogs and while he says a lot about what love is not, I don’t actually understand what a Red Pill man might call ‘love’. In fact, even mentioning it seems kind of Blue Pill. Maybe the point I’m missing is that love as we’ve defined it cannot exist between men and women, and we as men need to learn to live without it. Period.

  25. @cartoonist Is there a difference between being in love with a woman and ONEitis?

    Yes. ONEitis is where you let love convince you that it is okay to put up with her bullshit behavior because she is your soulmate and you don’t know what you’d do without her. ONEitis is what puts a gun in your mouth when you get zeroed out. ONEitis is failing to see that your sense of honor and duty, your love as it were, is being used against you and taken advantage of.

    I tend to think love is a trick of biology to get us to breed and raise young. It serves some sort of evolutionary purpose. Love is more than just some sort of blue pill socialized ideal or it would be easier to take the red pill. It wouldn’t have all this power. The Blue Pill isn’t just psychological conditioning. Too many stories of hardened players catching feelings. I don’t think all this purple pill is just about not letting go of blue pill ideals and trying to meet them with red pill awareness. That seems too easy.

    Love in the myriad of ways we apply it and ONEitis aren’t the same.

    Someone mentioned The Sixteen Commandments of Poon. I’d normally link to Heartiste.

    https://www.forums.red/p/TheRedPill/3453/the_sixteen_commandments_of_poon

    1st Commandment on the list is “Don’t say, “I love you,” first.” Combine with number five and tell you love her only twice for every three times she says it.

  26. @ Cartoonist

    “I haven’t been in love for a woman for years.”

    You fuck it up with your definition of love.

    Love isn’t something you do with a woman. Love is an understanding of one’s value. You can’t love a woman for years as you don’t know how to disinhibit yourself for fear of failure, for loss of the little remaining personal egotism. What you experience in life and sex and elsewhere is a reflection how willing you are authentically presenting yourself.

    You present yourself as inhibited and guarded in public. Here, at TRM, it’s better though you operate myopically and assume others do too.

    Others don’t, well, some don’t behave myopically. But all have an idea what is authentic and want that and generally aren’t willing to extend themselves vulnerably to be authentic and eliciting another’s authenticity.

    Hence your self-constructed pool of stasis quicksand. You’d prefer denying this and project your loss of connection elsewhere…otherwise you’d have to deal with it or sink further into depression.

    You’d rather live a zombie half-life. No feelings to hurt, yet no life in you to thrive. Nothing to lose, nothing to gain. Poor me.

  27. @YoungShagger

    Regarding the love thing. It’s not that tricky or debatable. Scores of stuff has been written about love for ages.

    When you enter into a romantic relationship with a woman, for the sake of an LTR, there is an infatuation stage with chemicals for a couple years. That can blind you to seeing positives and negatives in the other person for long term. It was popularly called New Relationship Energy. And it is not all negative.

    I have a buddy that is 56 years old. A cool, successful guy with a well put together frame. Divorced, with a 14 year old son. He has a girlfriend of 12 to 18 months. They don’t have to try hard to go along because both are in this new relationship energy and are having an enjoyable time. Nothing wrong with it. When the sun is shining, make hay (a better way of saying shit or get off the pot.)

    After a couple years, you have to get off the pot if things aren’t right. You can see how your relationship degenerated after a couple years out.

    After the initial stage, it’s well recognized that you develop into other types of love. And there is nothing wrong with that.

    All this talk about vetting? You still have to lead, adapt and compromise in a long term relationship. Compromise doesn’t mean you have to give in to your own beliefs or principles. You develop a collaborative alliance along the way and you change, she changes and you do it all over again. Things are not set in stone and you both don’t seek a completion in life.

    Stop Hoping for a Completion of Anything in Life

    Most men make the error of thinking that one day it will be done. They think, “If I can work enough, then one day I could rest.” Or, “One day my woman will understand something and then she will stop complaining.” Or, “I’m only doing this now so that one day I can do what I really want with my life.” The masculine error is to think that eventually things will be different in some fundamental way. They won’t. It never ends. As long as life continues, the creative challenge is to tussle, play, and make love with the present moment while giving your unique gift. –David Greenberg

    The perspective you have to take is that the Feminine Imperative and current social conventions would have you as a male believe that Romantic Love is the be all and end all for women. It is for them. It’s not for you. It’s not all about where her heart and her emotions lead her to feel romantic love at all times beyond the NRE stage. There are plenty of types of Love.

    https://www.lifehack.org/816195/types-of-love

    So your job is to understand how and where things go after that initial stage in a LTR. After the initial stage it is more about your choice of your commitment. Or not.

  28. @palmasailor

    :: Bean Farmer Scripts ::

    Jobs: (1) Hitman / Assassin (2) Masseur

    Palma – for you to expand on ….

    Her: What’s in the bag?

    Man (1): I can’t tell you.

    Her: Why not?

    Man (1): Because, if I do, I’ll have to kill you.

    Her: That’s a load of crap – show me what’s in the bag!

    Man (2): That’s a very bad idea …

    Her: Why?

    Man (2): Because he WILL actually have to kill you.

    Her: I don’t believe a word of this!

    Man (2): NEVER ask him [Man (1)] What’s in the bag – he’s a professional hitman: nobody sees his tools without him killing them – it’s a professional obligation.

    Her: You are both full of sh*t! [To Man (2)] What do you do?

    Man (2): I am a masseur.

    Her: So you give massages?

    Man (2) Kind of …

    Her: What do you mean?

    Man (1): My friend is a Tantric Massage Therapist: His touch can induce an orgasm in any woman.

    Her: Show me.

    Man (2): That’s not possible, I’m afraid …

    Her: Why not?

    Man (2): Because my friend (Man (1)) and I work together.

    Her: What do you mean?

    Man (1): He massages my targets, and once they have reached sexual overload, I kill them.

    Or something like that 🙂

    Note: I actually used the ‘I can’t show you what’s in my bag, because then I would have to kill you’ line on Babushka, when she became a little too curious about what was in my gym bag. It worked like catnip. 😉

    Tantum

  29. YoungShagger

    The thing is, you are asking the wrong question. It is true that you said “I love you” too much and probably inappropriately at times, to get in her pants. You were ignorant.

    What is more important is that you gave away your commitment too freely and for not good reasons.

    “If you look at it rationally, “love” in postmodern, western society serves hypergamy. I said “I love you (insert cringy pet name here)”so many times in my last LTR and now that it is over it is making me question did I ever love her and is it just a flowery term society throws around to indoctrinate men to fem-centric SMP?”

    Here is a primer on Red Pill Commitment. It is from Ian Ironwood, a Married Red Pill adult, who was well versed in Red Pill principles, married and with kids, who turned his marriage around and kept it that way. He had a blog called the Red Pill Room. He disappeared from the manosphere a couple years ago:

    https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1a6cAWPSKq7Ddg5NoQhqGB72Ip7L9P99O73n27YLJnb4/edit?usp=sharing

    His entire Red Pill Primer is here. It is the basics of red pill for someone your age, or who has not grasped the fundamentals of Red Pill yet:

    http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/p/the-red-pill-primer-for-boys.html

    Keep in mind that there is an understanding of Red Pill. There is the Awareness that stimulates different goals for each man understanding it. Then it spurs Game. There is plenty of learning curve to move up the level of mastery in awareness and game. Then there is competence beyond Red Pill and game, where you don’t have to think and overthink about it. First move towards competence. Get through conscious competence over the next ten years. Then move towards unconscious competence. Understand Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. And move up that pyramid. Love is solidly in the middle of that pyramid as a psychological need. It involves intimate relationships and friends. Red pill casts a different light on “intimacy”. Intimacy is something that women and feminists speak of. But they want it one sided. It is up to you as a masculine male to not make it so lopsided and showing a woman “all of the playing cards you have in your poker hand”. Not being selfish on your part, but being practical.

    Intimacy is about getting inside of each other’s heads. Allowing her to see your mind and thinking, and you see her mind and thinking. I’m not a big fan of intimacy, BTW. But it is a thing that can be managed and not be one-sided as women expect it to be. IOW, all of your mind and guts spilling out to her. You can be intimate by demonstrating your ability–demonstrate, don’t explicate without saying a word. Just by being good at being a masculine man and maintaining your state control and frame. See Heartiste’s 12 Commandments of Poon. She can see your purpose and mission and know what you are thinking by your actions.

  30. palmasailor

    To be honest I think I am at 5 acceptance. It is just coming unplugged makes me need a new definition of love for myself. I know I have the confidence, looks, and I will develop the game more to eventually have what I desire (which is a hot submissive wife willing to have as many kids as I want). I am definitely not MGTOW lmao that is a joke.

  31. And palmasailor I want a woman and a family but not until I already have my career of being an orthopedic surgeon and when I am well established (30-35) and preferably with a 20-25 yr old submissive dime (sounds like a unicorn ik) but that is my ideal at this point. You can still be unplugged and want a family at some point, you just recognize the tremendous challenges ahead for what they truly are and you adapt to take on those challenges in the SMP

  32. Cartoonist that is exactly what I was getting at. Thinking about it deeper I think love in a RP sense can mean mastering RP game and philosophy and understanding the dynamics to fully fulfill your needs while maintaining your frame. To me, I could “love” someone who accepts her place as my submissive and serves me while I protect and provide for her while we proliferate with many children. To me that is love because that is the purpose the whole concept of “love” is supposed to fill: create higher chance of procreation and successful passing of genes. So in a sense if a woman can do those things and compliment me in a family dynamic I would “love” her for that. That is the definition I am going for. Not until I feel those conditions are met will I say it. (And obviously one of those conditions is passionate filled, desire filled sex consistently)

  33. Youngshagger

    “To me, I could “love” someone who accepts her place as my submissive and serves me while I protect and provide for her while we proliferate with many children”

    And this is as it should be.

    Remember though, even ” submissive ” is conditional. Unconditional love is reserved for pets, most parents and children.

  34. @Palmasailor

    Skydiver. Made his own parachute out of recycled materials like spandex leggings, pantyhose, bustiers, etc.

    Cat walker. Like a dog-walker, but for cats because he doesn’t like dogs.

    Left-thread lugnut tightener who got laid off at the factory when they discontinued left-thread lugnuts. Thinking of a career change.

    Maybe more in a while.

  35. Youngshagger,

    The deal with submission is she responds to your dominant masculinity. Guys like you can just be yourself as long as you are all that.

    You are all that and girls will fuck you crazy for just being you.

    Funny: I know a once D-1 wrestler, now surgeon. He did a nude modelling for the college art class. The hypertrophic musculature is desired and wrestlers got it.

    He had fucked only one of the 8 women in class. By the end of the semester he’d fucked them all. He lost knowing his n-count after 200 and was married by 26. That’s +20 women a year. It’s not a competition though it is thought provoking.

    Your love talk is cute and oh please spare yourself the energy lost thinking about love. Get your lust on, and shamelessly so. The ladies will appreciate it too.

    In conclusion,

    You don’t search for a submissive woman. They find you and hunt dominant men to endangered species status. Be that guy.

  36. Or, you read a woman that isn’t submissive initially and make her submit.

    There’s a sizable number of chicks that are looking for that guy capable of making them ” want to do “. Requires patience as doing it incorrectly might cause you to catch a charge or two.

    inb4 pua thang: ” want to do ” in this sense is permanent over the long term according to internalized ability. Lol.

  37. Ehintellect you are right. The love talk is unnecessary indeed. I was at a social tonight with an attractive “friend” I had in the relationship. First of all, after hearing what her and other seniors in my class have to say about sex, this seems to easy. All they obsess over is wanting dick before college. I can easily give that to plenty of 7s and above that are of age in my class (17). Regardless though I think I did a good job shifting the frame for a first time trying to actually implement this stuff. I bantered, negged her a bit, was being cocky and funny (the girls were laughing and my cockiness), and made some subtle hits that I intend to basically bang most of the hot girls in my class (obviously use them as plates), and they responded well. I think I did a good job of showing my female classmates “I am not the same beta I was” “I am here to serve my needs first”. The first single experience tonight really made me realize that all these senior virgins (especially pretty ones) are such easy plate prospects. They all glorify sexual pluralism at this stage. If I feel like it I might even ask my chick friend I have known out on Monday at school. A rule I am making for myself is to only ask out on a “date” in person. Obviously this stuff is not my main focus in my life rn, but it is just a side skill I am trying to hone. I will let you all know when the shagging commences.

    Ps whoever said I just have to be the person I know I am (my true alpha) is right. I am done trying to hide or nullify my high testosterone. I am the youngest of three brothers so all I have ever known my whole family life was high strung male energy, time to harness that

    Shagger out

  38. One more side note I found interesting. I stopped masturbating for now about a week ago, and I noticed it actually motivates me more to improve my game and pursue my goals. I don’t know exactly what it is (I assume hIgher T) but it kinds gives me the mindset that it is any woman I want’s job to do this for me…how liberating

  39. @ Culum and Sentient

    Thanks for the advice!!

    Culum I read your post about the 400 open challenge and thought to myself, I am not that bad. Opening is not that big of a deal especially if it is for directions. Yesterday, I went to a relatively busy area of town and said let us see how many opens I can do in 90 minutes. I imagined I could get in at least around 25 at a bare minimum. To my astonishment, I could only manage 12 and it was not due to the lack of girls.

    Even to ask directions my mind would go racing with things like “There are so many people here, why are you specifically going to ask this cute girl, she will realize something is not right about this and get weirded out” “She seems busy I can ask someone else and she would also think that” “These two girls are in a conversation, why can’t I just ask someone else, it will look unnatural to ask them”. I also have the feeling that since I am a foreigner and minority living here, it will draw more attention etc etc.

    I realized how much resistance I still have to opening and how I would jump to try out any new method that asked me to cherry pick the girls I talk to, to avoid working on this problem. So now I have decided to put away all the PUA products I have. And just work on opening 400 girls.

    But I will surely not be able to do it in a weekend, because of time constraints. But I am planning to spread it over maybe a week or 10 days. Any thoughts on this would be great. And yes, I will baby step it by starting with easier sets and then move on to more difficult ones. Since I am spreading it out do you recommend setting a minimum target for an hour or something. Since the way you describe it, I guess you were also working on minimizing the time between the opens.

  40. To all lurkers and else, hear ye, hear ye, you fucking idiots, as our annointed Youngshagger lays down Solomonic words!

    “A rule I am making for myself is to only ask out on a “date” in person.”

    and…

    “One more side note I found interesting. I stopped masturbating for now about a week ago, and I noticed it actually motivates me more to improve my game and pursue my goals.”

    From them mouth of a near baby! Praise all that is right and true and victorious! Hazzah!

    Next up, experience Youngshagger summarily kill the benighted and vainglorious fruitcake j’s notch count without PUA phony overwrought idiocy.

    All hail authenticity and lacrosse and wrestling and F1 racing and duck hunting!

    God, I love my life.

  41. Youngshagger,

    “I don’t know exactly what it is (I assume hIgher T)”

    I stopped fap in 2010. Yes, you are right. There is a psycho-physico-emotional wiring which commands you to chase girls. It can be short-circuited by porn and fap. Your body reacts in a muted but similar fashion to auto-ejaculation vs. allo-ejaculation. It’s is a collapse of frame to fap, if only a little, yet a collapse, you know?

    What we do either makes us in the moment better or not, Stasis is a fiction.

    Best not overthink your correct moves. When you think about your moves you lose the seamless mind-body physical fluidity. No different than your wrestling skillset. You practice 2-3 take downs, reversals to complete unthinking undefendable mastery. Leave mental masturbation for PUA fags.

    You can read guys here excuse personal weakness all. the. time. Those guys sound clever and learned but what these too-smart-by-half types do is construct massive buffering systems or hundreds of moves and give the systems RP sounding and science-y names. Throw on some machismo and grr! and demands of intellectual pedigree and if you didn’t know better you’d think these guys have it all together.

    FYI: They don’t.

    You, OTOH, are constructing your life base upon two universal and eternal principles of beauty: 1) Fuck convention (FI, more is more, social expectation, tradition, cultural norms) and 2) keep the commandments (Be masculine, be strong, be honest, be authentic, understand rather than be understood, less is more or Occam’s razor).

    In this manner, you can 1) asses and respond IRT overcoming failure and stasis of faulty external convention and false promises and 2) keep all that has worked for eons without trying to recreate the wheel.

    Lastly, RP tries recreating the wheel a lot. Rollo uses a lot of insecurity driven concepts to justify his work. Women can be controlled by taking things away from them (like time, talent, treasure, presence and affection). Youngshagger, this is the HUUUUGE downside to RP. All sex predicated on insecurity manipulation requires a man to convince he is only worth fucking for that insecurity.

    In other words, no insecurity, no sex. See? AF is yet a negotiation. Guys refuse to accept it as is requires them to do exactly what you are doing….stop manipulating the world and let the world flow around you. Very Bruce Lee.

  42. Walawala

    I’d rather be the guy who bangs her than the guy who chauffeurs her around and bangs her.

    Sure. But those are not the only choices.

    But the other part of my discussion is to recognise when you’re being played. This isn’t the firSt time a girl I was banging shows up where I’m at with an orbiter.

    It is interesting that they have orbiters and you don’t. Why is that? Why aren’t there eight girls hanging around you?

    The last time was 3 years ago and I mismanaged it creating more drama for myself. This time I stopped, dropped and rolled away. It’s what was better for me.

    You know this isn’t true. It may have been better than the drama, but this was not the only other choice available.

    That’s the arc…

    That’s only part of the arc. Your story is still being written. The next few chapters can be different. You are just stuck at this point.

    Serious question…I didn’t react but why did it bother me?

    You recognize you are stuck. That there is something more out there. Another gear to grab. But you don’t know what it is yet.

    It has all the classic AFBB, I was exhausted. So why did it bother me?

    Because AF/BB is a girl’s reproductive strategy. Not a guy’s. So it can be exhausting. Sure you have found a way to fit into their game. But you even an “alpha fuck” is on her terms at the end of the day. She gets that seed.

    This is the ideal set up and it’s the set up I have with all my plates? We text when we want to meet up or bang.

    This is the ideal setup

    https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0303/21/1392710195047.jpg

    But in this scenario when she showed up the other night with chode…who is a friend….why didn’t I just go up and say “Hey! What up? Oy…” Instead I kept a low profile and left feeling awkward. It was uncharacteristic of me.

    Why didn’t she come up to you? And why didn’t you have three girls around you?

    You strive to hard to keep a low profile because you had some drama before. But you won’t get the whole benefit of “secret society” if you keep things soooo secret.

    No one knew but I don’t want to go through situations feeling like that.

    Do you want to embrace your full sexuality? Show the world the the complete Walawala or what? Or do you want to keep playing within the confines of the AF/BB game?

    Where are your Alpha Widows? Where are your Ride or Die girls? That’s the next level.

  43. Youngshagger

    PS – careful about knocking up some bint that will be a drain on your plans.

    Palma

    You are cracking me up… lol

  44. Prague was fun. Just got back. Was there for a wedding so didn’t really get a chance to try my luck much although there was one stunner at the wedding (and the after party) who I would love to have got. Gave it my best, teasing, being playful, showed confidence etc but she wasn’t into me unfortunately. A weekend ‘in’ for me, I think. Drank about 50 pints over the few days!

  45. Ehintellect

    Thankyou. I want to let the game flow natural. The biggest thing for me is to not let societal influence try to pacify my personality. I am naturally extroverted, but sometimes I am just now starting to own my extroverted nature. Before I would try to tame it and tone down my masculinity to not make people weary but know I am just not going to give a fuck. For example if a chick says something dumb or of low value I will just playfully neg her and put her down. That’s how I was raised but feminine conditioning took that side out of me in social situations. Now I just do not care, and a girl should consider herself lucky if she gets the opportunity to go out with me.

  46. Sorry these typos are excessive. What I am saying is I just have to own being an extrovert in social situations. Before my AFC fear of rejection held me back and social anxiety, but not anymore.

  47. I am going out tonight with my RP friend who is also 17 to a 17+ club. Any tips for the club game? I have never done it before.

  48. @Youngshagger you wrote: “So essentially after I break it off clean I ghost? And they will come back for the car and when they fo I just give it to them on my terms?”

    A few points for you to consider that I’ve now internalized.

    When you end something you ghost. Ghosting isn’t something you do to punish…it’s something you do to clear YOUR head.

    There’s too much emphasis on this idea of ghosting. You can’t ghost someone you haven’t banged. You can’t ghost someone then re-engage. THEY need to re-engage and if they do, don’t immediately go running back.

    I have tried this in many different ways. Ghosting is permanent. The “Soft-next” which has been written about is where you withdraw from drama and then re-engage when you want to. But the re-engagement has to be smooth and without any reference to the absence.

    These things take practice and willpower. 3 years ago I was banging a plate and got more emotionally entangled than I should have. The “Soft nexts” didn’t work because she figured out quickly that I would come back so her shitty behaviours and drama only got worse.

    Eventually I had to “ghost” her because she wrote me a bizarre drama-filled nasty text. That was 3 years ago. OF COURSE she tried to get my attention. But the attention wasn’t to bang me again, it was to get me to pay attention to her.

    Very recently I wrote last week about the plate I was banging last year who moved to my city and re-engaged. Last Saturday I banged her 4 times and she was concerned about appearing in public with me lest people “Gossip”. But she ended up leaving that party with a friend of mine who lives near her. She never texted me, never followed up and then started to go out to stuff with the guy. She came out last night with him. I acknowledged her but otherwise ignored her the rest of the night. Why? Because she disrespected me. As a plate she will have to understand I call the shots not her. If that means I never bang her again or she goes off…so be it.

    This brings up the other point about “Ghosting” that’s already built-into your request….the “my terms” part. If you have abundance and are spinning plates you won’t be looking at the calendar trying to figure out if enough time has passed, you”ll have moved on and will have forgotten about her. THAT is when she’ll re-engage. Then it WILL be on your terms.

    Your “Value” comes from the value you place on yourself and how much “value” you provide her. In the above situation the “value” I provided was in banging. The “Value” other dude provides is in offering rides and more attention. Classic AFBB.

    Another example, a 24 year old I was gaming suddenly started giving me drama. She wasn’t around, busy, didn’t respond to texts. I dropped it. Then after a month I re-engaged with some innocent ping text. SHE then started chasing me. She made herself available, wants to meet up again etc.

    This requires you drop you logical thinking and start thinking essentially like a chick. Not ACTING like a chick…THINKING like a chick. Then your game will get much tighter.

  49. @ youngshagger

    “tone down my masculinity to not make people weary”

    been there….

    This is the deal……

    You know what “ice cold” is?

    You’ve been there.

    Picture this: You are to wrestle an unknown but reputable competitor on a off-season traveling select team tournament. No chumps. All your familiar wrestler competitors are perched around the mat, interestingly watching how you’ll approach this new situ…..

    Oh no!! What do you do!!!

    You do what you in all ways and always do….zero different from your any other winning performance…..sense and learn and adapt and methodically strike at a vulnerability.

    Chill and methodical and systematic and orderly and calm and chill….did I say chill….again…chill.

    There’s no issue of tone down or up. You do you, that is killer and effective and chill.

    Masculinity isn’t about being BOOM!!! extroverted j-style yo! broski! Barf.

    It is about being you…unadulterated you…without the needfullness and grasping and at-all-costs-penis-in-vagina desire some guys display here on TRM. Those guys are dreadful.

    Girls laser focus on the guys who are chill in the middle of a shit storm of in-the-moment competition. You ain’t gotta be the best or have all the answers…yet you have to have chill..no matter if you don’t know what to do…you do your best….and you do it…chill. Less is more. Less said, less texted, less overt, less neck swiveling, less eye movement, thumb hooked in your pant top country-style, shake a familiar hand, do as adults do, pick a point, focus on that point when your back is leaned against the wall…yet you EASY-MOVE when hottie looks subtly at you…use your peripheral vision… and immediately, yet softly, take her hand, lead her away to someplace you can connect alone.

    BTW…show little teeth when you smile. In no situ open-mouth gape-smile-laugh. Yet smile.

    *****Enter bro-country song along the riverside, sweet little thing in painted-on jeans, dogwood branch, lemon shooter*******

    Let your intent be mysterious (not overt) yet orderly and expressed…and feel free to jam…when you are alone with her (or in a dark corner)….your 2nd and 3rd digits as deep as you can up her pussy as you push her oh-so-lovingly up against a random secluded obstruction, french kissing her, swish her Bartholin glands and rub your thumb on the clitoris. Again…you frenching her. Then if the moment is right….whip it out and drag her hand around your cock and lead, lead, lead her along her first Alpha sexual encounter.

    Remember…young girls have zero…ZERO…idea what they are doing…do not listen to the “all girls are whores” talk here or what they are telling each other or gossip. Do not get sucked into dude-sex gossip. Virgin + macho = douche.

    Girls are sexy idiots. You need to be patient and kind and leading and easy. She’ll give way. They all do.

    Oh! Suck her tits. Suck her nipples good as you bang her. You’ll be a sex god. I like the texture and her pussy will literally tighten on your dick.

    Turn the noisy end away if needed. Some girls literally scream!!! in the throws…pay no attention…use hand lightly to muffle the yelping…it’s a matter of politeness to others…lol…she’s getting off. As Blax mentioned, from the back, her hand on a tree or whatever, you’ll be banging her cervix deeeeep that way….it’s a memorable chic experience to have her cupping cervix pounded.

    Oh! Dip your dick in her lemon shooter pre-blow job for extra credit. No joke. Don’t be shy. Hell. you could…welll..damn… start with dipping the dick.

    Later we’ll talk about choking. Man, do girls love a firm and light hand on the thyroid cartilage or simple wrist restraints. Fun shit.

    Don’t get me started on tie-her-up, tie-her-down stuff…..OMG.

  50. …Sorry these typos are excessive. What I am saying is I just have to own being an extrovert in social situations. Before my AFC fear of rejection held me back and social anxiety, but not anymore….

    …Before I would try to tame it and tone down my masculinity to not make people weary but know I am just not going to give a fuck….

    And you apologize for typos here? Why? Because that’s what 17 year old senior boys have been taught to do? To be apologetic for minor infractions?

    (Interesting but true: EhIntellect’s modus operandi is to go forth and make lots of mistakes at first. It teaches you what not to do the next time…. And he’s accomplished a lot of moving forward by taking that tack.)

    And you know, you adopted the avatar name youngshagger on the advice of Palma.

    Style point: Capitalize Y&S–

    younshagger vs. YoungShagger. Which looks more bold and determined?

  51. :: London Summit #3 with @palmasailor: Field Reports – Friday 17th August 2019 ::

    Out with the excellent @palmasailor in good old London town around Covent Garden and Soho districts on a rainy Friday night, to see how many sets we could open, and, close if possible. My focus, under Palma’s astute tutelage, was to see how far I / we could run with openings, and, for me, not to ‘run away’ with my enthusiasm or to push too hard … We opened about 8 sets in all (with a couple of extra side-gambits), although some details are a little hazy, with me chiefly as wingman, FRs written in the present tense. So, here we go: -)

    Palma: Please jump in if I am hazy on details or have missed anything, as I am not sure that I can recall all 8 sets accurately, and think that I only have around 5 to 7 …

    To warm up, we bounced few a couple of bars, first, coming across a kind of bodega; we go in. Place has mostly mother / daughter pairs, with a couple of groups of men standing off to the side; everyone was drinking wine. As we walked in, blonde mother (late 40s) immediately looked up and stared at us (IOI); Palma dressed casually, I was in a pale blue linen suit, having just come from a client assignment. We walked up to the bar and were told: ‘This is just retail sale, sir’ – ie you had to buy a bottle of wine and sample it, and then buy more. We decided to bounce, and, on the way out, another blonde mother raised her head and looked. 🙂 Always a nice feeling when a woman breaks off her conversation to stop and stare.

    :: FR 1 – Shop Assistants ::

    Searching for a decent bar, Palma noticed a couple of shop assistants (mid-20s), one brunette, one blonde, standing idly at the doorway of a clothes shop. In we go, with Palma asking them for directions to a decent pub. Blonde recommends an Irish bar a couple of blocks over. Blonde tells us she is from Southern Ireland, and Brunette tells us she is from Northern Ireland. I tell the Blonde that she doesn’t look like she’s from Dublin …. no response to the gentle neg. Palma runs the ‘Probation Officer’ gambit:

    Palma tells the blonde that I am his probation officer. I respond that Palma is a very dangerous man, only allowed out under my strict supervision. The girls look somewhat incredulous, but we continue. I ask them what time they finish work; the Brunette says 8pm (it’s now around 7pm). Palma invites them to come and have a drink with us. Blonde objects, saying it’s an expensive part of town and that she can’t afford it. Palma counters by saying that we will buy them a glass of wine. Blonde replies that she a ‘strong independent woman’ (TM) and can buy her own drinks. I chime-in and say that they have to come with us, otherwise Palma will misbehave, and I will have to call the police, and it will all get very messy. I turn to the Brunette and ask her whether she is coming to join us. She also gives me the ‘I am also a strong independent woman (TM)’ line. We thank them for the directions and bounce.

    :: FR 2 – Irish Bar – US Tourists ::

    We rock up to the bar, there are two middle-aged American tourists standing there. General chit-chat about the poor weather, then Palma tells them that he is my probation officer. Look of general confusion. 🙂 More harmless chit-chat, but they are not biting, as on watching them go back to their table, we notice that their husbands are there …

    :: FR3 – Irish Bar – Weather Girls ::

    Heading out of the Irish bar, Palma bounces off two girls sitting at a table by the door, blaming them for the bad weather. One of them (blonde) questions how could be her fault; Palma says it’s obvious … but they don’t bite.

    :: FR4 – Irish Bar – Swiss Girl / Mixed Set ::

    Brunette Swiss girl (SG) standing outside the bar with a couple of guys, and a smaller, related group of three other guys standing a few feet away. Palma asks the guy standing closest to the SG for directions to one of our preferred Peruvian Bars. The second guy standing in the first group of three immediately disappears! Directions guy whips out his phone and shows us the route. We then turn to SG and open. I ask her what she’s doing here. She says she is here for a works leaving party; she is some kind of graphic designer. She reveals that she is Swiss. At this stage, Directions Guy makes his apologies and leaves, so it is just Palma and I left talking to SG. She tells us that her name is ‘Lisa’. Palma negs by saying that he can’t talk to her because his ex was also called ‘Lisa’. She apologises! She also tells us that she studied graphic design at Bournemouth. I neg: ‘Bournemouth? That’s where people go to die! Why the hell did you want to go there, of all places?) (NOTE for US commentators: Bournemouth is a dull, seaside town on the south coast of England, mostly populated by retirees in God’s Waiting Room :-)). Again, she apologises!

    Out of nowhere from the second group of three guys, ‘AMOG’-style guy, bearded and wearing a black T-shirt steps forward, wraps his arm around SG’s waist and announces: ‘She’s with me!’ – and pulls her away from us. Palma retorts: ‘So, marry her then, and invite us to the wedding!’ ‘AMOG’ immediately folds and disappears – along with his two mates – leaving Palma and me with SG’ ALL the guys have now vanished at this point. SG then folds her arms while talking; closed body language and nowhere else to go … so we bounce.

    :: FR 4 – Peruvian Bar – Brazilian Bossa Nova Girl and Friend ::

    We make it to our preferred Peruvian Bar (always some half-decent looking women in there on a Friday night, usually 6s as there are not many 7s and above in London in the bars; they prefer the clubs). Drinking wine seated just opposite the bar when a couple of brunette Brazilians walk in and sit at the bar in front of us – guessing late 30s / early 40s, solid 6s / 6.5s, slim and well-dressed in that very feminine South American way, Gentle opener, we ask them where they are from, they say are from Brazil and friends. I ask them what they like about the bar, and it emerges that they both know some Spanish; I express surprise but do NOT give away the fact that I speak Spanish. I ask them what they do; Friend (F) doesn’t answer, saying simply that the two of them have been friends for a long time. But Bossa Nova Girl (BNG) turns to me and says that she is a singer (this turns out to be true), and adds, smiling, that she can speak Spanish because she once lived in Panama.

    Palma then springs the Bean Farmer / Astronaut gambit: He is an astronaut who used to fuel space rockets for living; I am a bean farmer who specialises in knowing the 437,000.5 species of bean which exist in the world, and I once competed in the Olympic Nigerian Bean-Flicking Championships. 🙂 NO looks of incredulity or disbelief … Palma continues to say that he and I know each other because I had to take a rocket to outer space to retrieve a rare extra-terrestrial bean, and my rocket crash-landed.

    F is now starting to look a little disbelieving, while BNG continues to smile, stroke her hair and preen. F asks me what I think the secret of bean-farming is. I reply with a completely straight face that the key to successful bean farming is all in the kernel of the bean, and making sure that it germinates properly … they both buy this!

    They then turn to each other and debate what wine to order. I, over-enthusiastically suggest a wine (fail). Palma gives me a gentle shin-tap and tells me to pull-back, which I do. We turn away and speak to each other; they do the same, speaking Portuguese.

    We decide to leave, and Palma tells me – so that they can hear – that we have to go ‘to meet the girls’. As we go, I say to BNG that we will be in the bar next Friday.

    Outside, Palma reckons that I have been getting solid IOIs from BGN, and suggests I go back in for her number; I do and I get it. So, one to follow-up.

    [Note: I have pinged BNG a text, but no response … I may try just once call, and leave it at that]

    :: FR5 – Fusion Bar / Restaurant – Mixed Set ::

    We bounce to a Fusion-style bar (the type where you can eat Teryaki salmon with chips, etc!) and pull-up at the bar for drinks. Beside us is a guy with four women – one beside him (hostile blonde) and three sitting around the corner (three brunettes). Palma opens him. They are South African, and one of the brunettes is his wife, sitting in the middle of the corner group of three women. Palma spends some time chatting to the guy …. I get up to go to the restroom, and, on my way back to the table notice that the blonde is trying to take a photo of the other girls. I tell her that she may need to retake the photo, as I could be in the background of the shot. She shoots me down, saying that she is a good photographer and it won’t be a problem. I am cock-blocked, and she is the ugliest of the group; I give her a jerk smile, laugh, and return to my table.

    Palma and I figure that the brunette at the end of the corner row will probably be returning home alone, but neither of us pursues an opening.

    :: FR6 – Fusion Bar / Restaurant – Tantum / French Group Outside ::

    I step outside for a smoke and notice two girls, one Indian-looking (5.5), the other a white brunette (6) and a guy with long black wavy hair – all early to mid-20s. I light my cigarette and listen. They are all speaking French, and the Indian girl is asking the guy where he learnt to speak French. He replies that he is Portuguese and that he learnt his French at school. I chime-in, in full asshole mode and in immaculate French: ‘That’s plain to see.’ Both girls immediately turn away from him and to me. Indian girl immediately says that I must be French; I reply (stupidly) that I have a French stepmother; she tells me she is from Paris; I nod and say it’s a city I know well. I turn to the other girl and chat with her. She is from Lyon, etc … Another girl arrives who is English-speaking and Portuguese guy whines that is rude for me and the two French girls to be speaking French when the new girl can’t understand. I ignore him, and continue jibing with the girl from Lyon, asking what she’s doing in this part of town. She tells me that they have been a to a club next door. I have to get back inside to Palma, so I push it: I ask her to come inside with me for a glass of wine; she looks down. I go back inside.

    [Note: @Sentient: This is a game fail on my part. I could have involved Portuguese guy, but I wanted to test whether I could just draw attention away from him. Also, I failed to build attraction with either of the girls, but time was not on my side … So, recalibration needed.]

    :: FR 7 – Fusion Bar / Restaurant – Palma / Tall Blonde ::

    Back at the bar and chatting with Palma …. We notice across the bar that there is an Oriental girl sitting alone … who is then joined by a tall slim blonde (TSB). We are talking and looking in her direction. I am also chatting-up one of the barmaids, a 40-someting slim brunette from Sydney wearing a Black Sabbath T-shirt: ‘Hey, Sabbath, what’s good to eat here, and where’s our food! What are you doing in a place like this?, etc’

    Palma notices that TSB is giving him of lots of IOIs – tucking her hair behind her ear, looking at him, lots of smiling. I also notice, and point out to Palma that she has turned the wrist of her right hand towards him whenever she speaks to Oriental girl. (Observational Note: Wrists have pulse points and an erogenous zone – this is why, classically, a woman dabs perfume on her wrists. 🙂 ).

    TSB gets up to leave with Oriental girl, and Palma gets up and tells TSB that she can’t leave: ‘You can’t leave – it’s illegal; you’ll get arrested if you do!) LOL. TSB smiles again, and explains that she has to go … all the while preening her hair ….

    That’s about it. 🙂

    TantumErgo

  52. @TantumErgo

    Great field report. Not much time, but couple quick thoughts.

    Don’t send a text AND call. Too needy. You may not get a reply now – that’s life. Some numbers are flaky and the solution is to not rely on them at all (go for the SNL or instadate) or if you do get a number, then solidify as much as possible so she remembers you (tactics on this in YaReally, there’s a Todd video about it and I think Mystery covered it too – I’m not sure if it is in the book, but it was certainly mentioned in my MM seminar back in the day).
    Overall you guys both seem great at opening and getting attention. So now it’s the rest of the Game to work on.
    In particular with the routines – they are definitely funny but you have to calibrate to the girl and the reaction and the stage you are at. It’s not something to get through just to get through if you see what I mean. Especially if you get girls who just don’t understand WTF is going on (or don’t find it funny) you need to change tacks. The goal isn’t to “do the routine” – the goal is to the use the routine as an attraction (A2) tool. If it’s not working, do something else. When I used to do speed dating and tell girls I was a gigolo on the hunt for clients, I had a whole schtick for girls who reacted well to it (pricing, the difficulties of marketing, crazy clients etc), but if they didn’t react emotionally to it, I would talk about something else and move on..same sort of concept.

    1. @ Culum Struan
      @palmsailor

      Culum:

      I agree with everything you say. 🙂

      https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-130/#comment-280018

      “Don’t send a text AND call. Too needy. You may not get a reply now – that’s life. Some numbers are flaky and the solution is to not rely on them at all (go for the SNL or instadate) or if you do get a number, then solidify as much as possible so she remembers you (tactics on this in YaReally, there’s a Todd video about it and I think Mystery covered it too – I’m not sure if it is in the book, but it was certainly mentioned in my MM seminar back in the day).”

      Indeed. On reflection, a call would have been better, and I wasn’t happy with the text message anyway, which, once sent (via WhatsApp), I couldn’t then delete as it had been delivered. 🙁 Bossa Nova Girl may read it and respond, but I am not convinced, and so will chalk this up to experience.

      Both MM (and supporting videos) and YaReally are on my homework reading list. 🙂

      Tantum

  53. Tantum/Palma

    Looks like a fun night. Be advised that most of the time when you are comimg across this kind of stuff

    “She tells us that her name is ‘Lisa’. Palma negs by saying that he can’t talk to her because his ex was also called ‘Lisa’. She apologises! ”

    And

    “NO looks of incredulity or disbelief

    They both buy this!”

    It’s because you are already really high value to the girl. They are already bought in. See it as a big IOI. What you then need to do is give her just a little A3 to build her up and you can go right towards isolation and comfort. Too much cocky funny at that point is overgaming, and she will disqualify yourself or think you are mean. Dont neg below 7s…

    If most of the girls are at best 7s it’s pretty common. 6s nearly always.

    Interesting 5 and below can be downright hostile because they already ruled themselves out for you and are bitter. 6s usually pleasant and want to go along. 7s depends on how close to an 8 they are. Most of the snarkiest girls you give it back hard are 7.5. 8s tend to go along and play but with good nature. 9s go along and give it back as well. With humor.

    Just some of my observations.

    1. @Sentient
      @palmasailor

      Sentient:

      “Looks like a fun night. Be advised that most of the time when you are comimg across this kind of stuff”

      << “She tells us that her name is ‘Lisa’. Palma negs by saying that he can’t talk to her because his ex was also called ‘Lisa’. She apologises! ”>>

      “And

      “<>

      << They both buy this! >>

      “It’s because you are already really high value to the girl. They are already bought in. See it as a big IOI. What you then need to do is give her just a little A3 to build her up and you can go right towards isolation and comfort. Too much cocky funny at that point is overgaming, and she will disqualify yourself or think you are mean. Dont neg below 7s…”

      This I aim to work on, as I make my way through MM. 🙂

      “If most of the girls are at best 7s it’s pretty common. 6s nearly always.
      Interesting 5 and below can be downright hostile because they already ruled themselves out for you and are bitter. 6s usually pleasant and want to go along. 7s depends on how close to an 8 they are. Most of the snarkiest girls you give it back hard are 7.5. 8s tend to go along and play but with good nature. 9s go along and give it back as well. With humor.

      Just some of my observations.”

      Helpful observations about not negging below 7s, treading carefully with 5s and below (although I now try and avoid girls below 6s, as very few 5s in London are actually bangable), and that you can go hard with 7.5s and above.

      Tantum

  54. Tantum

    ” she will disqualify yourself”

    Should read “disqualify herself”

    A little DHV can go a long way.

    I wrote a few pages back about the neighborhood woman who contrived a way to get my number. I sent her one text, albeit in Catonese it was knowing (which she responded to before my hands got off send). Anyhow she was trying to figire out where she might run into me. I threw a few places out but no dates or times. Days later she says she is going over to X place. I say I’m not around and she says she is going with a friend (of course). Couple of hours later that night she texts asking where I am. I say I’m not around. Not gaming her at all, just trting to play it down the middle. I had decided I wasn’t going to go there. Half our later she texting saying shes had a few drinks and is alone now. Setting the table. Text her to be safe. Weekend comes she texts me last night at 12. Says she was out to three places and didn’t see me.

    Need to deescalate this pronto without triggering her. Thinking of just lengthening time between responses and one wording/ just the facts and let it fade away.

    Other thoughts? C’mon now Chodes it’s time to shine. What are good ways of deescalating besides marriage?

    1. @Sentient

      “” she will disqualify yourself”

      Should read “disqualify herself””

      I got your meaning. 🙂

      “A little DHV can go a long way.”

      And I now have a few DHV maneouvres and sexualised stories under my belt – ready to be tested infield.

      “I wrote a few pages back about the neighborhood woman who contrived a way to get my number. I sent her one text, albeit in Catonese it was knowing (which she responded to before my hands got off send). Anyhow she was trying to figire out where she might run into me. I threw a few places out but no dates or times. Days later she says she is going over to X place. I say I’m not around and she says she is going with a friend (of course). Couple of hours later that night she texts asking where I am. I say I’m not around. Not gaming her at all, just trting to play it down the middle. I had decided I wasn’t going to go there. Half our later she texting saying shes had a few drinks and is alone now. Setting the table. Text her to be safe. Weekend comes she texts me last night at 12. Says she was out to three places and didn’t see me.
      Need to deescalate this pronto without triggering her. Thinking of just lengthening time between responses and one wording/ just the facts and let it fade away.”

      I remember this … it seems as if if she has made up her mind to have you … 😉

      “Other thoughts? C’mon now Chodes it’s time to shine. What are good ways of deescalating besides marriage?”

      Ha! Ha! – Try this:

      ‘What I really need to know from you is your BEST recipe for chocolate muffins – there’s nothing I like better on a Sunday afternoon than to bake a fresh batch of brownies / muffins for my wife and kids. My kids swear that my chocolate muffins are so much better than their mother’s.”

      Tantum

  55. @palmasailor
    @Sentient

    Palma:

    “Dont neg below 7s…”

    “I’ve never taken any notice of HB level when “playing” with them.. the problem is I’d have had her at a 7+ a bit.”

    Do you mean Swiss Girl? If so, then I had her at only a 5.5! 🙂 While the Brazilians were IMHO a solid 6 / 6.5 …

    That’s why I just put them at would or would not bang. Despite the above she was actually a would not bang because she wasn’t enough fun..”

    Would or would-not bang is a good way to classify (Blackdragon?). And Swiss Girl – like most Swiss girls – wasn’t enough fun. 🙂

    Tantum

  56. SJF

    “And you apologize for typos here? Why? Because that’s what 17 year old senior boys have been taught to do? To be apologetic for minor infractions?

    (Interesting but true: EhIntellect’s modus operandi is to go forth and make lots of mistakes at first. It teaches you what not to do the next time…. And he’s accomplished a lot of moving forward by taking that tack.)”

    You are right apologies are not necessary. And EhIntellect’s MO is relatable. Yesterday at the 17+ club (really more like 17-20) I had a lot of fun. I danced around a bit with my friend, and grinded with 4 girls. Since that was literally my first time in any type of club atmosphere, obviously I was a big rookie and had a lot of trial and error. I probably got rejected to grind with more girls than I actually did, but I think it was a really good thing for me because it helped me see what worked and what did not work, and it reinforced the fact that rejection does not mean shit because there are way more girls out there. Also, the 17-20 yr old girls there were not all about hooking up on the spot. Some would grind but most were there to have fun with their friends, they weren’t trying to really make out. I am probably better off just getting the number of some of them I dance with next time. Another challenge I noticed is that I am 5’7” so a lot of girls were my height or a bit taller. The ones that were my height or taller were a lot less apt to grind with me. I wore a short sleeve button down yesterday, but I think next time I am going to get a nice sleeveless tank top to show off more of my assets (ie built physique and strong arms) because in the low club lighting they could not tell I am actually built. Again, trial and error is important.

  57. And obviously when I am 5’7” and most the other guys are at least 5’11” and up it makes me look like a worse option comparatively (especially when I was not showing off my arms or anything)

  58. @Sentient

    Yes, lengthening responses and “fading” is the best. Good thing you haven’t actually done anything with her that isn’t plausibly deniable. Don’t engage with a specific excuse – for one thing it needs to be vaguely plausible (at least barely), but also because giving an excuse is an acknowledgement that there’s something between the two of you that you need to give her an excuse to get out of – completely unnecessary if you haven’t actually done anything with her. Your play is to maintain the plausible deniability and fade.

    You can certainly tell her you’re busy with work and travelling a lot – but it should be closer in vibe to being a response if she asks “What’s up with you?” or similar. It shouldn’t come across as an excuse or a reason why you’re prevented from seeing her, because that implies you two had some kind of mutual intention to meet up.

    Overall it’s a similar sort of strategy t what I did years ago (with guidance from YaReally and HABD) to get out of that potential FRA before any accusation was actually made. You’re in a much better position than me – you didn’t bang a 30 year old virgin (lol) and get her confused about her emotions and what you wanted from the relationship. But the principle is the same: you basically want to chodify yourself so that she loses attraction for you (so in addition to fading away on text, she shouldn’t be attracted to you if she sees you around in neighbourhood social settings). This was easier for me 1-on-1, it’s probably harder for you in a group setting where it may look weird to act different in a group – plus if her husband is such a massive chode, it may be difficult for you to actually go “below” him, and as long as you’re above him, she will still be attracted to you.

    But definitely cut out all attraction building behaviours – it’s like a good anti-game exercise. And texting fading out, but also being beta. Normally I’d suggest being needy but in this case she’s attracted enough that your neediness probably won’t “hit” her until after she’s slept with you..

    How often do you have to see her socially? Parties etc?

  59. Tantum

    Now you’re a smart fella. Tell me what happened here. With this WB girl?

    “Out of nowhere from the second group of three guys, ‘AMOG’-style guy, bearded and wearing a black T-shirt steps forward, wraps his arm around SG’s waist and announces: ‘She’s with me!’ – and pulls her away from us. Palma retorts: ‘So, marry her then, and invite us to the wedding!’ ‘AMOG’ immediately folds and disappears – along with his two mates – leaving Palma and me with SG’ ALL the guys have now vanished at this point. SG then folds her arms while talking; closed body language and nowhere else to go … so we bounce.”

    Why do you think those guys came into your set? Random chance?

    Or did they see a girl giving you play? Buying temperature is transferable…

    So you studs then beat back a swarm of attempted AMOGS making light work of them… What do you think the girl thought of all this?

    So now you have isolated her again… And you eject? Because she isn’t grabbing your cock?

    She was all alone and ready for you to lead. Bounce her. That’s the next step here. Lead and bounce her to a place just round the corner. Baby step.

    Closed off body language is also vulnerability. If she is STILL in set, especially after other guys tried to pull her, you stay in set and lead.

    1. @ Sentient
      @Palma

      “Tantum

      Now you’re a smart fella. Tell me what happened here. With this WB girl?”

      << “Out of nowhere from the second group of three guys, ‘AMOG’-style guy, bearded and wearing a black T-shirt steps forward, wraps his arm around SG’s waist and announces: ‘She’s with me!’ – and pulls her away from us. Palma retorts: ‘So, marry her then, and invite us to the wedding!’ ‘AMOG’ immediately folds and disappears – along with his two mates – leaving Palma and me with SG’ ALL the guys have now vanished at this point. SG then folds her arms while talking; closed body language and nowhere else to go … so we bounce.”>>

      “Why do you think those guys came into your set? Random chance?

      Or did they see a girl giving you play? Buying temperature is transferable…”

      Yes they did. 🙂 And I reckon that Palma is a terrier when he gets going. 🙂 And, generally (but not always), other guys don’t want to fuck with me unless they are VERY sure that they can win – either verbally or physically. I am not saying that I can’t be beaten, but you know, Sentient, from my previous posts that I am accustomed to sizing guys up just in case … I am reasonably good at sowing the seed of doubt in most guys minds. This is what happened with ‘AMOG-style’ guy. He thought that he had us (he was physically bigger / fatter than both of us), but crumbled at the first challenge.

      “So you studs then beat back a swarm of attempted AMOGS making light work of them… What do you think the girl thought of all this?”

      Clearly she liked it or else she would have allowed herself to be led away by bearded ‘AMOG-style’ guy.

      “So now you have isolated her again… And you eject? Because she isn’t grabbing your cock?

      She was all alone and ready for you to lead. Bounce her. That’s the next step here. Lead and bounce her to a place just round the corner. Baby step.”

      Understood, but, either Palma or I would eventually have had to peel away, and, I have to go with Palma on this one:

      “I only hit it to do it by the numbers, she was actually boring me shitless. There was nothing behind her eyes I was interested in working with.. and THATS the problem…”

      There really wasn’t anything that fascinating about her – and I only rated her a 5 / 5.5 at best. That said, I agree that leading her and bouncing her around the corner was the next step.

      “Closed off body language is also vulnerability. If she is STILL in set, especially after other guys tried to pull her, you stay in set and lead.”

      So, I need to get out there solo and follow through. 🙂

      Tantum

  60. Palma

    Sure if you’re turned off bounce out. That’s for sure.

    But Tantum said “nothing to work with” though which may not have been true. Cause by the numbers means go to some comfort and bounce next steps.

    Many of these situations you don’t really know until you press it.

  61. Palma

    “If I’d read this differently I might have taken another try at getting her on cam”

    Now we are talking… Because that attitude leads to getting past this

    “The stuff I really want is early 20’s and I’m some way from getting that cracked.”

  62. @palmsailor
    @Sentient

    “Terrier”

    Palma: You have that look about you, reminiscent of one of my old Martial Arts instructors, who was about your height and build. 😊

    “Despite that… no homo, but Tantum is prob 6” ish, slim, very well dressed, zero approach anxiety, and they were a group of millennial pussies.”

    Agreed on all counts.

    “In terms of presence, I don’t know really, he’s got a similar vibe to my best friend who is 54 and a 4-5th dan. I know he does something but I don’t know exactly what as we’ve never gone into detail. Nothing was gonna happen in that pub which worried either of us. We’d both probably pick up a wrong situation and exit these days on the first radar ping walking in.”

    I think that flight is always better than fight, but, if you have to fight, then stuck in.

    ” There was one guy in the group, who was our age, he was having the leaving doo and PalmaSailors scaffolder rule applied. Buff mid 40’s to 50’s 5’6” and below men you don’t fuck with. He’d already eyed us up and wasn’t in play. This type “might” have taken us both out, you really don’t know. One way or another we had the most presence in the pub.”

    Yep: Short, broad guys are usually trouble…

    ” Outside of him we could have probably have wiped out all the pub including the pussies that call themselves bouncers.”

    I reckon so, but as you have said, Palma, it wasn’t going to be an issue.

    ” It’s laughable to call that an AMOG attempt.. even though it was. in my usual social circles I could have stood there talking to her and her genuine Alpha boyfriend would be in another room. It would be cool.”

    Can’t say that I have actually met many Millennials in England who are actually Alpha — most are so plugged in to the FI, that they are psychologically women.

    ” This guy lunged in, and really, it grossed her out, and it was instant.”

    And so he disappeared pronto, and she stayed talking to us. 😊

    “Well run the script properly next time and if we get a 2:1 again we’ll bounce her and we’ll toss a coin for who splits off.”

    So, I need to do my honework, and learn my lines.

    Tantum

  63. You guys…

    Love ya but you are still missing the whole AMOG dynamic.

    It is – still, since I just posted a bit on this to Tantum – NOT about the guys or who is tougher or who sizes up who or who can kick who’s ass. That’s how dogs see things. Not cats. Cats are looking to get feedback on the dynamic.

    So in this case a “millennial pussy” comes in strong (as an aside do you know any millennial pussys who walk into a mixed set and grab girls bodily in feont of dudes? I don’t.. Lol) she does what?

    Nothing.

    You challenge the guy – but not physically, and he folds. She does what?

    Nothing.

    She was waiting for the outcome. Who’s frame was stronger.

    Which is why it is important in a game context to NOT focus on the guys (and What they look like, how beta/alpha they appear, how tall/short etc. They are) but to ALWAYS focus on the girl and her reaction.

    All that matters in game is her reaction.

    Absent a small demographic, 9 of 10 times if any male on male aggro broke out the girl is going to just split. She’s gone.

    So millennial pussy lost by focusing on you guys, and not her reaction. If he held frame and whispered in her ear an agreed and amplified your challenge (What say love, shall we get married and have 500 babies?”) And she laughs and smiles at him… And if he’s smart her turns her to face him and give you her back…

    You guys are pretty much gone at that point. Social pressure is strong.

    No punches thrown… No asses kicked

    (Tantum I posted that Tyler example a few post back)…

  64. “So millennial pussy lost by focusing on you guys, and not her reaction. If he held frame and whispered in her ear an agreed and amplified your challenge (What say love, shall we get married and have 500 babies?”) And she laughs and smiles at him… And if he’s smart her turns her to face him and give you her back…

    You guys are pretty much gone at that point. ”

    yep. spot on, Sentient.

  65. @Sentient:

    Serious question…I didn’t react but why did it bother me?

    You recognize you are stuck. That there is something more out there. Another gear to grab. But you don’t know what it is yet.

    Good insight….I don’t think I’m “Stuck”…I THINK I’m stuck and that conflict is at the heart of this…I THINK I’m limited or that I lost something.

    Cool

    As for the “Why didn’t you have 8 girls on your arm…”

    On Saturday night I did…and interestingly enough she made a few efforts to get my attention even blatantly parading herself in front of me. But I was too busy enjoying myself with my little posse and secondly I didn’t want to….as you put it…fall into HER frame of being nice for the sake of it.

    As much progress as we all make it’s never the end of the journey we’re always somewhere along the line….some further than others but it’s always a personal progression.

  66. @Sentient

    re your sl*tty neighbor …

    assuming you really never ever wanna follow up… use a reverse boyfriend destroyer… but subtle… basically AMOGing yourself with the husband…lol

    text her to ask her if her husband could help you with something stupidly beta-esque…lol… (probably already have some topics from the last neighborhood get together…lol) then just let that hang for a while… = no texting… while her hindbrain works it’s magic…

    good luck!

  67. @sentient habd

    New Field Tested text game flor slutty Neighbour…

    Send text just hey or hi then immediately delete before she gets a chance to see it.

    It shows up as “message deleted” in her feed…hamster spins

  68. Youngshagger

    “(Interesting but true: EhIntellect’s modus operandi is to go forth and make lots of mistakes at first. It teaches you what not to do the next time…. And he’s accomplished a lot of moving forward by taking that tack.)”

    The theory behind not worrying about mistake prior to getting something done; Kinser’s Law

    “About the time you finish doing something, you know enough to start.”

    James C. Kinser was an engineer, efficiency expert, and jack of all trades. Raised in the Southern Appalachian storytelling tradition, he knew that the best way to teach something was to tell a tale. As a corollary he used to say: “If you don’t write that down, you won’t remember it for when you need it.”

    The Tale of the Three Bookcases

    When I was about 12 years old, my dad initiated a project to build three bookcases, one for us, and one for both of my grandmas. He’d scared up a good bit of cherry-wood and made a detailed pencil drawing on graph paper. Graph paper was used for everything in my house; until I went to elementary school, I didn’t know they even made paper with lines that only went in one direction. We fired up the table saw and I got to hand him wood and act as “catcher” on the backside. After we’d cut the wood for one bookcase, he turned the saw off, surprising me to no end. You see, for me, things like the economy of scale, process improvement, and always being on the hunt for a better way to do things had been bred in the bone. This led me to ask “Aren’t we going to cut all the wood, build all the bookcases, and then finish them all at once?” “No,” he said, “I reckon we’ll build one, figure out what we did wrong, and then build the other two. It’ll end up taking less time, and we’ll wind up with better quality bookcases.” He paused thoughtfully, then added, “About the time you finish doing something, you know enough to start.”

    Transitioning the Lessons Learned

    Everyone has heard the truism: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” (Santayna, 1905). You cannot consider a project finished unless you learn from it. The steps are simple, but the enforcement can be difficult until it becomes an accepted practice. Gather the lessons learned at a meeting that will be held at closing or postproject so it doesn’t get canceled. The project manager must then create a separate report on these; a project closing form/checklist can help make certain this is finished and published. Put the lessons in a database (here the KISS principle applies); a three-ring binder will suffice, if necessary. Use an initiating/planning checklist form to ensure that project managers of similar endeavors review these before baseline approvals. Repeat these steps until the rewards become so obvious that the need for onerous discipline is diminished.

    YoungShagger, understand this: Embarking on a new venture requires understanding only a bare minimum of the situation. That’s why I find PUA overwrought. You could prepare for all articulations, or hazards, or pitfalls only to be wasting your time trying to find answers for nonexistent problems.

    Thinking about what NOT TO DO or rigidly imposing a game playbook blinds you to what you SHOULD DO.

    Essentially, you get out there now and on-the-fly learn and change your approach immediately IRT. Which you are doing. You are mixing up your wardrobe to suit your physical chops. Good. That’s learning, improving. You are willing to change to something better, subduing your ego. Nice.

    You are FIRST doing what feels comfortable and attractive to you and SECOND receiving public affirmation, or not, to that behavior. Avoid seeking external validation to primarily define your moves. That is toxic to strong frame and a huge time waster.

    External validation is an indicator of your external acceptability, not a rejection of you qua you.

    You must do you, that best version of you, and that guy you can model authentically..

  69. Wala

    As for the “Why didn’t you have 8 girls on your arm…”

    On Saturday night I did…and interestingly enough she made a few efforts to get my attention even blatantly parading herself in front of me. But I was too busy enjoying myself with my little posse and secondly I didn’t want to….as you put it…fall into HER frame of being nice for the sake of it.

    Your mental model needs a few tweeks Wala. She made effort = she is in your frame. Now how to handle it? from YOUR frame… i.e. how does your interaction with her in situ advance YOUR objectives… You are now using her in this situation, you are not “being nice to her for the sake of it”. She is a pawn in your posse – you have jealousy plot lines to work with, you have preselection from the other girls to work with on her… It’s all good and it’s all about YOU if you step into the role of manipulator… and it does not have to be adverserial… You beleive girls will be ok to share high value guys right?

    How do you think that threesome is going to happen? [inb4 HABD “threesome!!!]

    Step up a level…

    https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6ke77g/q4rp_what_do_you_guys_think_about_mysterys_five/

    There are five levels of game.

    Level 1: Open groups: The first level is not opening up a girl all by her onesie, which is called a “single,” a “lone wolf,” or a “single set,” even though a set is a group. That isn’t where we begin. See, women of beauty are rarely alone; they’re usually in groups. So you’re going to have to work the group. And that’s the first of the five levels.

    Level 2: Merge groups: The second one is merging. Sure, you know how to open up a group, say a three-set…two-thirds of all approach-scenarios are the three-set. But what about merging? To forward-merge the group that you’ve met in an effort to demonstrate to them that you have social savvy. And that [social savvy] is of value to people, right? You also want to be able to backward-merge the group into a previously-opened set so that you can show them that you have friends and you have a social circle that comes along with you. You know, if you meet a girl and you don’t get a chance to meet her friends and she doesn’t get a your friends, at some point that’s all going to have to take place. And that’s why we want to get good at [forward and backward] mergers. It’s both basic and advanced. It’s basic in that you’re going to have to do it tonight. And it’s advanced because you have to learn how to open up a three-set twice [i.e. you need to be good at Level 1].

    Level 3: Bring girls you met yesterday to a public gathering today: The third level of game is allowing last night’s successes to assist you in this night’s successes, bringing the girls that you met yesterday into the public gathering today. It sweetens the pot [through] pre-selection. It comes with you.

    Level 4: Bring girls you met last month to a public gathering today: The fourth level of game. This is where you allow last month’s successes to assist you with this month’s successes. And that’s called having a life. Having a social circle. You know, when I go to a new city for the first time, I’m starting from scratch. I have to go through all these different levels of game over the course of the next month or so that I’m in a new city.

    Level 5: Upload your DHVs into people’s heads in advance: Now, the fifth of level of game…that’s called hot game. Hot game includes anything technological, any media that can convey your personality so that you already have uploaded your DHVs into a person’s head prior to your arrival. That’s hot game.

    You’ve got to start at the cold approach, that’s the juicy part, that’s the dragon that you must face head on and strike its heart. And then over the course of the days and the weeks and the months it just gets hotter and hotter and hotter until you’re playing hot game, where everybody knows your name.

  70. @Sentient It took a lot of thinking to understand why it bothered me so much that she didn’t come back with me after spending the afternoon together.

    Normally I don’t care. I’ve internalized it all and most of the time I just blow it off. But this really pissed me off and it shouldn’t have.

    I watched Rollo’s recent podcast and one of the dudes pointed out that inherent narcissism guys have in terms of “I did xyz…” and there was this expectation of the girl giving back. It doesn’t happen all the time and the mindset of caring vs shrugging it off was what was missing in this whole interaction.

    Somehow I cared. Once you understand your own motivations you’re in a better position to deal with them.

  71. @walawala

    re @Sentient’s sl*tty neighbor…

    my understanding is that he wants to get her to stop chasing him without her outright grabbing his c*ck (open hypergamy, yo!!!…lol) causing some tension at the next neighborhood watch meeting…lol

    a ping text like you suggest will only make THAT^^^ harder… bc it WILL spin her hamster…lol

    as far as your ‘issue’ with ‘catching some feelz’… +1 on @Sentient’s advice…

    it’s just some residual FI still getting a finger on your shoulder… it looks like you are working through it… buuut…

    Normally I don’t care. I’ve internalized it all and most of the time I just blow it off. But this really pissed me off and it shouldn’t have.

    why not?… serious question…

    even if she is a plate, you really can want her to ‘not bang other guys’… that’s not ‘needy’… (unless you are chasing her/in her frame…lol)…

    and thinking that you don’t have any right to ‘complain’ is residual FI… (bc girls ‘sharing a high value man’ is NOT the same as men ‘sharing’ a ‘high value girl’)…but to get that one-sided exclusivity, you need a higher residual SMV to her than you currently seem to have… which could have been caused by being in her frame like you were… in other words, your ‘demand’ that she not bang other guys, is based on your high value, as opposed to some idea of ‘equality’… which is usually negotiated…

    also, maybe consider that you are actually avoiding going full RP…

    there is a point you get to (which @Sentient alludes to) about understanding that you really are ‘manipulating’ girls (and other men) (and note the pejorative concept there…)… bc you can see the underlying dynamics in play… and know the script and how to make the proper moves in the game… = ‘superpower’… and part (a big part) of the BP/FI tells you that ‘manipulating people’ (especially for your personal gain) is just flat out wrong…

    and that’s what the RP superpower allows you to do… but the implication is that you are an EVIL super villain using your powers for evil/personal gain… and NOT the hero… so you might be getting some cog diss blowback from that idea…

    also, when you just accept the full RP, and work through it ‘enough’… you (or at least i did… ) kind of get to a point of ‘gamer’s malaise’ (for lack of a better term)… where seeing behind the curtain (all the fkin’ time!…) gets kind of tiring… bc there really is NO ‘magic’ left… and you might be sensing THAT and trying to avoid it happening… (bc if i’m honest, i could see it coming)… (it really does sck… at least for a while anyway… and then it gets better…)

    but if that’s true, just keep pushing through… as kfg says – first it’s just a mountain… then it’s more than a mountain… then it’s just a mountain again…

    you’ll work it out…


    @Sentient

    +1…

    How do you think that threesome is going to happen? [inb4 HABD “threesome!!!]

    lol… but true…

    good luck, y’all!

  72. So EhIntellect and others, I have two prospective plates that are seniors. (HB 7 and HB 7-8) I have done a little bit of flirting with both of them, and I think I am at the point where I got to pull the trigger when I see them in person and ask them out on a date (preferably for this weekend) next in school. I feel like if I wait any longer (especially with the HB 7 who was an acquaintance/“friend” while I was in my last relationship who I did have good chemistry with however) it will be fruitless and I would probably just end up in the friend zone. My goal is to set up one or two dates for the weekend with either those two or someone else and start spinning plates (it will be more gradual for me hopefully build it up over a couple months to 5 plates at least that I am physical with) I understand I will learn most by trial by fire @EhIntellect, but do any of you guys have any approach advice/advice on what to expect trying to spin plates with 17-18 yr old girls ie how physical should I expect them to get (hopefully very if I can display I am an alpha).

  73. @YoungShagger

    Asking out on dates is a thing, huh?

    You know you can just tell them you’re doing something(*) and that they can join you, right? Even if it’s only you and (one of) them… and it actually looks like a date to you (but it isn’t/that’s dog logic that prevents threesomes from happening… lol).

    The difference may be subtle but it sets a different frame. Differentiates it from boyfriend-girlfriend activities. Makes it uncertain as to what you think of them = hamster spinning. Gives you more room for playing it however you want (ons, fwb, girlfriend).

    You get them out and follow the process.

    Having fun, teasing, dropping innuendos. Gauging what her buying temperature/attraction level is and amping it up. Setting little compliance hoops (hold it for me, give me a sip, spin for me). Bouncing several times (it builds investment and feels like you’ve been through a lot more together). Having logistics sorted (how to get from the meeting point to sex location, not necessarily a bed). Making her feel at ease with whatever she decides to do with you (comfort). Miscalibrated something? One step back, two steps forward. All non-judgemental and casual.

    Enjoy and make it fun even if it doesn’t go anywhere.

    (*) checking that new spot/event you heard should be fun, chilling somewhere, doing something you like etc.

    @Tantum

    You have a big reading list now but given all the routines you guys trying, here’s a repository that shows many more stages and tools to be used (all consistent with the process):

    http://www.seductionbase.com

    Pushing your interactions forward (leading and isolating) is the next step.

    Go through the full process and always be closing. Because Kinser’s Law and The Tale of the Three Bookcases (from @EhIntellect’s comment above).

  74. IRL so essentially I never say the word date, and I just tell them I was doing something (even if it is by myself) and ask them to join to help keep frame?

  75. Youngshagger

    Just “Hey let’s hang out” and mention whatever activity.

    “Let’s hang out. I’m going to XYZ. Like 730.”

    If you drive tell her you’ll pick her up. Otherwise meet her there.

  76. @Palmasaailor

    re that ‘doctor of orgasmology’ routine…

    lol… that was good…

    i would change one thing though… instead of ‘hindbrain’ use ‘subconscious’… girls don’t really know ‘hindbrain’… and if they do, using the term is getting too close to talking about fight club…

    good luck!

  77. YoungShagger

    Think of how you used to feel when you were a neophyte wrestler going against a stronger opponent. Now, think of how you think and feel tactically and logistically now as a varsity wrestler. See the difference? In the former, you were in your opponents Frame. In the latter you have your own mental point of origin and the opponent is hopefully in your Frame and at your mercy and whims.

    Think about when you’ve been in a match and you have confidence and your wits about you and you are not fatigued going into the third round of a match. Where you can play with the opponent at will. You don’t ask that opponent for permission to take him down, do you?

    This mindset can be emulated when you lead a girl out on an adventure. Relaxed, confident, feeling her out tactically. You leading with competence and confidence and having moves down the road kept in mind. Logistics, a place to end up at. A couple condoms in your pocket, etc.

    And don’t forget a concept of bouncing from one place to another. Don’t go out on a date and sit there with chit chat for three hours. Don’t feed her a big dinner. Or spend money, thinking she will reciprocate with appreciation. It’s a thing. Don’t be passive and wait for things just to happen because you showed up. Make things happen. Like when you are on the mat wrestling.

    Bounce

    Quick Definition: To move a target or group to a different venue.

    Full Definition:
    Bouncing a girl to multiple locations is a way of building comfort with her. Each location instills more memories, and the HB’s trust in the artist will grow from location to location (assuming a smooth transition and interesting conversation and activities take place at each location).

    Bouncing a girl to different locations can create a time distortion, or the feeling of having known the artist for a long time, even though the HB and the PUA have only known each other for a few hours. As such, a smooth Bounce is crucial for establishing isolation and comfort, especially in the case of ONSs, ZNSs, or insta-dates that take place over a short period of time.

    Bouncing also creates a precedence of the girl following the artist’s lead, which will make it easier for him to lead the girl back to his place later when going for the close.

    Usage:

    I bounced the HB to a couple of different clubs, before we headed back to my place.

    And keep in mind the overall flow of Mystery Method M3 model of seduction:

    http://www.seductionbase.com/seduction/cat/Before_PU/basic/280.html

  78. @KFG: I’d like to know your opinion on something. Some commentators here (including some whose opinions I really respect) are proponents of having a genetic legacy.

    I’d like to know your particular opinion!

    Here is mine (I used to be religious but I’m now an atheist).

    Any type of legacy, including offspring to propagate “your” genetic code, is meaningless. You’ll be dead anyway and your “lineage” will not last forever, I don’t see why it matters if it lasts 1 more generation, 1000 more generations or 100000 more etc.

    I’m asking you this, because I think you know enough science to agree that there is no escaping the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Even if the descendants of humans “escape” the Solar system before the Earth becomes unsuitable for human life, before the Sun goes out and makes it unsuitable for ANY life… The Universe itself will eventually become unsuitable and will not preserve any “code” that someone right now could propagate (genetic or otherwise).

    Personally, this doesn’t bother me and I’m going to just enjoy my time here, instead of sacrificing my time to raise kids (I think those people who actually will have fun raising kids and having them grown up should do that, but that isn’t me). I personally don’t have kids and I don’t want them.

  79. YoungShagger,

    In spite of what some guys say here, girls are not hypergamous sluts machinating their way to power and your wallet. Women do: 1) respond to their environment and 2) yet prefer to be valued for themselves.

    It’s not a balance. The latter competes with the former. When the environment finds them useful and they respond by using their bodies utilitarian-wise, women become cynical and vindictive. When you, YoungShagger, speak to their better nature, they can relax knowing that all the sex and provisioning you provide is pleasurably useful though what really motivates them to be with you is YOU.

    I was at my reunion this weekend and the women were needy and scared and nervously chatty and no different than 17 y.o. girls you know, but you’d never know how fearful they are, as girls are experts at hiding their fear and reversing expectations on the man…if he intimates he’ll shoulder the burden. They are socially trained to negotiate but prefer to fuck for the sake of fucking and intimacy. They have all the shit in the world and yet are needy. My wife is trim, long hair and wore a pink dress and many women found it a pain in the ass.

    You choose, YoungShagger. Do the negotiation route and leverage your body and mind and wallet and she responds with sex…or…be the guy they open up to, the guy they think REALLY understands them. Not Beta. Not Simp. Not Nice-Guy. A chill guy who peers into their eyes and telegraphs desire.

    The dancing monkey thing is very PUA. Avoid that.

    Reason for all this is to avoid a #metoo. It comes down to this: Does she think you give a damn about her beyond her pussy? Will she walk down the street hand in hand, first date, telegraphing your pre-selection AND feel comfortable that you will maintain her Anti-Slut-Defense for everyone else?

    Those girls will walk to the ends of the earth and off to be with you.

  80. “My wife is trim, long hair and wore a pink dress and many women found it a pain in the ass.”

    And pink high heels and rode in on the back of a baby blue tandem bicycle….and looking sweet and feminine. In EhIntellect’s Frame, happy and in Love.

    Go figure. It triggered the washout alums.

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