Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

15,472 comments on “Field Reports

  1. @ Culum

    💕 ( no homo)

    @ Kfg

    Promise me you’ll never stop posting, even if you have to do it from Valhalla.

  2. Thank you Blax and Sentient.

    As far as I know, @ford and @scars are different people – I remember seeing both usernames before. But yes, they both seem to be British guys with similar opinions.

    @j – so, some of this stuff we agree on. Some of this stuff is basically a judgment call – a difference of opinion on the nuances (like whether any particular tweak to MM is novel enough to be a “real innovation” – that’s pretty subjective).

    ..and then there are the things where you’re just dead wrong.

    “Looks matter” is one. I’m not going to revisit that argument – I took apart your arguments the first time and I have nothing more to say on the subject. I only stopped responding then because we’d reached the stage of repeating ourselves and not making any new points. You and I will never concede our positions of course, but feel free to link the discussion so that new readers can decide for themselves who was more convincing (I think @Bronson will probably think you’re more convincing).

    Next, I’m not sure what Don Steele’s book has to do with anything. I haven’t read it but I will freely admit that there is probably stuff in it very similar to MM. I explicitly said MM wasn’t absolutely original. But unless you have some evidence that Mystery read the Steele book and adapted it to make MM (in which case I am happy to withdraw my claim and admit I was wrong), it doesn’t affect my point that Mystery was a genius for coming up with his system independently by sheer observation and field experience (even if Steele thought of it first – which of course he didn’t).

    It’s kind of like how Newton and Leibniz both independently came up with the idea of calculus at around the same time (Leibniz was first, but Newton went public first and it caused decades of feuding over credit – but there was no doubt they had each done it unaware of the other’s efforts and were both geniuses irrespective of who was first).

    On the 7 hours thing – again you have to remember what Mystery was targeting. He wanted these girls to fall in love with him. He wasnt targeting “minimum time for this girl to let me put P in V”. And to do that he gave 7 hours as a rule of thumb (not an absolute). Having said, that, it’s certainly possible to refine methods and improve that 7 hour figure – as I said before, Mystery wasn’t the last word in seduction (or even the first!).

    You said:

    “Saul’s thing is you give value, by spike her BT via self amusing/cold reads/teasing/disqualifiers so that you can leverage her elevated state, to get investment in return. Until she starts, giving you solid answers (not one to two word responses to your questions) to your questions, then you can move her. That works a lot more solid, than “bro just keep DHVing then move her to comfort.””

    This “Saul’s thing” is LITERALLY the same thing as Mystery Method. It’s not even a question of him making tweaks which we then need to consider whether they are a significant improvement or not. He’s not even done that. It’s exactly what Mystery said.

    You said:

    ““DHV by asking questions”

    lol no Culum you can’t DHV by asking questions. You can however ask questions, so that she’ll return the question back to you, So that you can DHV tho.

    i.e.
    You: What’s something you’re really passionate about? (not’s not a DHV)
    her: um lately I’ve really taking a liking to drawing. What about you?
    You: DHV”

    No. This is just factually wrong. You can DHV by asking questions. Please watch the Jeffy and Julien videos I mentioned in the previous post.

    To be precise, the point is that a question isn’t neutral. Both the content of the question (sometimes) and the manner (subcomms, voice tonality etc) in which it is delivered deliver a lot of information which can be either a massive DHV or a DLV.

    In terms of the content of the question – you don’t think if you walk up to a girl in a New York club and say “Are you from Poland?”, and she is, that will be a DHV? Because it’s effectively an accurate cold read in question format.

    And I trust I don’t need to explain voice tonality and confidence of the delivery and how you can use exactly the same qeustion “What’s your name?” to deliver a whole range of different emotions.

    @Bronson

    Unfortunately, there is no way I can convince you on the Looks Matters Debate with just my words. If you are interested, then YaReally beat the subject to death in his Archive and everything I’m posting here is basically my personal take and personal experiences applied to what he said (since he was the first to explain it to me). But if you’ve read all the YaReally debates on the subject and you are not convinced then there’s not much I can do.

    Either you will develop personal experience that shows you I am right – but to do that you’ll have to look below the surface of what you see in clubs (and go against the prevailing wisdom of society), or you won’t.

    I will leave you with a martial arts analogy.

    What you are saying is kind of like someone saying “All this martial arts stuff is nonsense bro – just have big muscles and be aggressive and hit first in a fight and you’ll win”. And the thing is, being big and aggressive IS helpful and you will win most fights – until you come across someone who is a trained fighter who is just better than you and you’ll be flat on your back (or worse) no matter how aggressive and how big you are, and then you might realize that you don’t actually understand the skill of fighting.

    Pickup and Game are kind of the same. What you’re basically saying is “follow the mainstream society view of what is attractive to women” – be good looking etc – and you’re absolutely right that what you’re suggesting will work and you will get women up to a point – because being good looking IS useful, it’s just not definitive – but you don’t understand Game and pickup and women anymore than the big guy in my example above understood fighting. And when someone like RSD Tyler -a short weedy guy with a funny voice – comes along you will be destroyed because he understands the fundamental principles of Game and how to apply them much better than you.

    But having said that, there are very few guys on that level of skill and the basic steps you’ve outlined will certainly help you and you’ll improve your results with women. But you will never reach your full potential or understand the dynamics involved if you get stuck in “Looks Matter”.

    1. @Calum Struan

      “I will leave you with a martial arts analogy.

      What you are saying is kind of like someone saying “All this martial arts stuff is nonsense bro – just have big muscles and be aggressive and hit first in a fight and you’ll win”. And the thing is, being big and aggressive IS helpful and you will win most fights – until you come across someone who is a trained fighter who is just better than you and you’ll be flat on your back (or worse) no matter how aggressive and how big you are, and then you might realize that you don’t actually understand the skill of fighting.”

      Cogent and compelling analogy, and one, which you know, I understand. And the ‘trained fighter’ makes it look so simple and easy – the mark of true mastery – whether actually fighting or running Game. 🙂

      TantumErgo

  3. God damn it, Culum! I was just on my way to the gym….Aight let me do this real quick..lol

    “feel free to link the discussion so that new readers can decide for themselves who was more convincing”

    Not more convincing..who was right and who was wrong:

    anyway…that discussion:

    https://therationalmale.com/2019/02/27/the-global-sexual-marketplace/comment-page-5/#comment-271224

    moving along…

    “On the 7 hours thing – again you have to remember what Mystery was targeting. He wanted these girls to fall in love with him”.

    You don’t need to game a girl for 7 hours for her to fall in love with you. That’s down right retarded. Hell it might not even BE a good idea. Lest you want clingy chicks all up in yo business lol. But yeah. You see those two chicks @Sentient just linked? You don’t think they (girls I SNLed in wayyyy less than 7 hours) love me? Even tho I haven’t fucked any of them in months.

    “Having said, that, it’s certainly possible to refine methods and improve that 7 hour figure – as I said before, Mystery wasn’t the last word in seduction (or even the first!).”

    agreed.

    You said:

    “Saul’s thing is you give value, by spike her BT via self amusing/cold reads/teasing/disqualifiers so that you can leverage her elevated state, to get investment in return. Until she starts, giving you solid answers (not one to two word responses to your questions) to your questions, then you can move her. That works a lot more solid, than “bro just keep DHVing then move her to comfort.””

    “This “Saul’s thing” is LITERALLY the same thing as Mystery Method. It’s not even a question of him making tweaks”

    The tweak is that he’s spiking her emotions (tease/self amusing/cold read) TO GET INVESTMENT FROM HER DURING A2. NOT WAITING TILL A3.

    Mystery in the video I linked: “once we get to A3, where I am trying to get her to talk by asking questions, I’m baiting her to talk to me to answer questions. In A2, I am DHVing to get a list of IOIs. In A3, I am baiting her to DHV me so I can give her IOIs”

    That’s not the same think brahhh.

    “In terms of the content of the question – you don’t think if you walk up to a girl in a New York club and say “Are you from Poland?”, and she is, that will be a DHV? Because it’s effectively an accurate cold read in question format.”

    That’s a DHV because its a cold read. Still. Cold reads are better delivered as statements rather than questions. Because if you’re right, then she will be amazed, like maybe you’ve been with a bunch of polish chicks that you can easily just tell (i.e. preselection) and if you’re wrong, she’ll wonder WHY you think that about her. Win-win.

    “You know, I can tell you’re from Krakow. You just have that look.”
    “omg what look?????”

  4. “That’s not the same think brahhh”

    Gotta explain this one, cause I know y’all be nitpickers and shit.

    This A2-A3 happens in one swoop. I tease then I throw her an investment hoop right away. NOT till I’ve gotten enough IOIs, from DHVing do I begin asking questions. Like we talking less than a minute into the interaction. Then you get stuck wondering am I in A2 or A3? I say abandon these bullshit steps. And just focus on getting investment to build compliance via the investment process by Saul.

  5. J

    You are straining mightily to point out these vast differences to MM.

    Googles “teevster”, third result down:

    “The Teevster Formula
    05-04-2013, 09:46 AM
    This post is a reflection on Teevster’s comment in my thread, “How To Get Women To Chase You.” We are similarly-minded, and though we have different takes on things, both of our methods are largely based on personal tweaks of Mystery Method (still the Bible if you ask me, he was right about most of the things he said).”

    From (now banned of course) ChitownMaverick

    https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/general/8871-the-teevster-formula

    2013…

    Mystery is the most ripped of guy in PUA.

    Rollo is the most ripped of guy in TRP.

    So many midgets playing giants sitting on another’s shoulders.

  6. @j

    No, you don’t need to spend 7 hours with a girl to get her to fall in love with you. It depends on you, your skills, the girl, the environment and other variables. But it does generally (note: generally) take longer to solidify the connection and get her to fall for you than it does to hit “minimum time for P in V”. 7 hours is a useful rule of thumb that Mystery suggested for that process – it was a guideline, not an absolute requirement.

    As for the A2/A3 stuff you said:

    “This A2-A3 happens in one swoop. I tease then I throw her an investment hoop right away. NOT till I’ve gotten enough IOIs, from DHVing do I begin asking questions. Like we talking less than a minute into the interaction. Then you get stuck wondering am I in A2 or A3? I say abandon these bullshit steps. And just focus on getting investment to build compliance via the investment process by Saul.”

    This is a misunderstanding of Mystery Method (as usual).

    A2/A3 happen in any successful interaction. If they don’t happen, you will not succeed in your pull. That’s what I mean by “praxeology” – the process happens whether you think it is bullshit or not, whether you know it is happening or not.

    However, it can happen very fast. Yes, less than a minute into the interaction. Seconds even. Nothing you’ve posted goes against MM – you’re just going through the steps fast. Your tease (or your approach with confident subcomms etc) builds A2 almost immediately, so you can go almost immediately into A3 – your investment hoop. In fact if she likes your look or your subcomms on approach or she was giving you an approach invite, that’s A2 right there. You don’t need to do more A2 and tease her – you could literally walk up to her and start with A3 and go into an investment hoop and it would work. Perfectly in line with MM.

    And I’m willing to bet you do wait till you get enough IOIs from DHVing before you go into A3 and give her an investment hoop. You just don’t call it that.

    Presumably when you go up to a girl and tease her, and she blanks you or doesn’t engage with you or she backturns you, or gives you a shit test you don’t keep going and give her an investment hoop? You either deal with the shit test or you get her to engage with you or get her laughing etc and then do the hoop? That is literally “getting enough IOIs from DHVing” and going to A3 according to MM.

    YaReally used to find this funny too – the way you see people who are literally doing MM in their infields claiming they’re not following MM. The core of MM is the structure,not the funny hats and magic tricks.

    (Yet again, there is a post by YaReally where he explains exactly this point and how fast you can flip through the steps)

    PS – BTW, @j – have you ever had a serious relationship or girlfriend? Or basically any relationship that was more than just a fling? I’m trying to understand where some of your blind spots come from.

  7. Personally, I see the whole concentration on speed pulling like being one of those guys that competes in those hotdog eating contests. It really goes wrong when he always associates ” eating ” with scarfing down everything he eats in large volumes as fast as he can, yet considers himself a fine dinning expert.

    What I’ve learned here reading what Yareally wrote and what many commenters have said, is that it was of the utmost importance for guys to get their penises into vaginas. Urgent matter. But it seems to me that a lot of guys still never move beyond that stage. Stuck scarfing down hotdogs.

    This became apparent to me during the Great Marriage Debates right here at TRM. I heard some of the craziest shit ever during that time.😁

    I think MM goes beyond what pua gurus teach today. From what I understand of MM, today is a watered down basic version that’s quick and easy with no ideals or goals long term. No progression. P in V, snl, are the gods. The danger in that way of thinking came out during the marriage debates here when Yareally ( tell me one benefit of marriage etc…) Was desperately trying to formulate a ” plan ” to have children while still being a ” playa “, and avoiding any and all legal action while doing so. For all of the pua stuff ya knew, this basic idea of how parenting worked completely baffled him, and he needed a roadmap of steps he could follow to accomplish something outside of what he did understand.

    That’s the Achilles heel. The ” gee, I want kids now ” thing will always trip up a guy that hasn’t bothered to understand women beyond trying to get their panties off as soon as possible. Lol, that’s when tales of Boogey men come to life in the form of child support/courts. And if you spend decades telling guys ” no benefit in marriage “, then there are zero answers or workarounds left at your disposal. ” daddy’s going out to the club and snag a snl ” isn’t a reasonable answer, and I thought that while idea was batshit crazy.

    But it showed a limitation. A poor use of so much time. Only eating a hundred hotdogs for years and years and years and years and……

    And I won’t even get into the whole ” who’s frame is that in? ” thing.

  8. i’m not that young at all. My brother and sister got all the brains in the family, i’m afraid! They’re both loaded. I was never clever enough to get A levels, uni etc. Kind of made my piece with it all. My CV is awful (also had cancer that put me out of cmmission for a while) and i’m not good at learning new skills, and I have no existing ones! But it is what it is. I have friends much older than me who are kinda broke and they seem as happy as some of my older, fairly rich relatives I have, so I try not to worry about it too much. At worse, maybe i’ll move too a super cheap-ass country or something. I don’t think being rich was ever in my destiny!

  9. @Ford: you don’t have to be rich. You don’t even have to not be broke.

    There is quite a continuum between rich and broke. Do you want to stay broke? BTW, this is about you, not about picking up girls.

  10. @j

    Hi. I don’t know if you remember, you had introduced me to Bacchus’s work on daygame and Gunwitch Method which he advocates. You also sent me a link to Seduction MMA. I have been listening to Seduction MMA, not yet finished it. But I have already started having better interactions.

    I used to do direct London style daygame and hardly any sets would hook. Now, I am picking only lone stationary girls like Bacchus advises and have an almost 50 percent hook rate. I am not yet good at immersion, but I am sure that needs more practice.

    My question however was, since I select stationary lone girls, I approach far less, sometimes in a two hour daygame session, I approach just 4 women. Is that okay? I sometimes come back feeling, I did not do much. But maybe this is from all the London style direct stuff I have filled my mind with where volume is the most important thing. Would be grateful for any advice.

  11. @Blax – mostly agree. Doesn’t mean that PUA advice isn’t valuable (it changed my life and remains a key interest) but there’s more to life than that.

    @Palma – yes, that was me pointing you to YaReally’s advice on text game. Still the best out there (and not just for texting). But yes, he was broke and working some dead-end job that just barely supported him. Mid 30s when he was posting, so about late 30s now. He did say in his last year of posting (2016) that he was finally turning his focus away from pickup and generally towards improving his economic status – I’m confident he’s done it by now or well on the way to doing it, given his level of intelligence and drive and focus.

    Personally, I think of YaReally in the same category as ski-bums and surfer dudes and scuba-diving instructors. They’re all guys who are passionate about a particular activity/skill and dedicate their lives to that activity even though they know there’s no money in it and they will struggle economically. Yes, they know it gets harder to live that lifestyle as they get older – they do it anyway because they’re passionate about the activity and that’s what they want to do with their lives. I don’t think of it as something to look down on – I think of it as something to admire.

    I think the misconception is that people think YaReally’s motivation was “pulling girls” or “having sex” – but he long ago passed the point where he could do that easily (hell, even I hit that point a long time ago and I’m nowhere in his league). He just loves the activity, the skill, and getting better at it, in the way that a surfer loves being in the water and going for the big wave or whatever.

  12. Palma

    Even our god Mystery, can he actually make enough for a decent living now he’s pushing 50?

    No he can’t, but it’s because he is a terrible business person. You might find this interesting, back in 2007 Mystery’s company was doing $2.7M in sales a year.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20080921012851/http://themysterymethod.com/Corp/MM-docs/our%20application.pdf

    And his “partners” ended up taking it. Now he helped them mightily by agreeing to a bunch of stupid things up front. So then Love Systems sprang up with his IP, and then RSD started up and a bunch of others ate all his pie…

    The movie to be made here is not “The Game” [which James “Really Bad Text Game” Franco has the movie rights to I believe], it’s the fall and fall of Mystery… But this would be too sympathetic to men, so will never get a greenlight.

  13. BACKGROUND
    On October 10, 2007, Rosen filed a two-count complaint including class claims alleging that Defendants Donnely, Mystery Method Corporation (“MMC”), Nicholas Benedict (“Benedict”), Jon Lee (“Lee”), Chris Hendricks (“Hendricks”), Peter Sergeant (“Sergeant”), and Robert Plyer (“Plyer”) violated the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (“RICO”), 18 U.S.C. § 1962 et seq. Count I alleged that Defendants violated RICO by participating in a RICO enterprise through a pattern of racketeering in violation of §§ 1962(a) and (b). Count II alleged that Defendants conspired to engage in a pattern of racketeering activity in violation of §§ 1962(c) and (d).

    As we stated in Financial, Inc. v. South Chicago Dodge, Inc., 2001 WL 1002463 (N.D. Ill. August 31, 2001), * 1, on a motion to dismiss a RICO claim, we must accept as true the allegations contained in both the Complaint and RICO statement (hereinafter referred to as “the Complaint”). According to those documents, Erik Von Markovick (hereinafter referred to as “Mystery”) developed a sophisticated system over several years to help men meet and attract women (the “Mystery Method”). In October 2001, Mystery began offering personal training of the Mystery Method to others and a year later founded an internet site, http://www.mysterymethod.com (the “Website”), where he offered personal training, publications, on-line advice via private internet-based forums, audio discs, and DVDs about the Mystery Method.

    On August 25, 2004, Mystery entered into an agreement with Benedict to administer the business aspects of the Website. Per the agreement, Mystery continued to personally oversee and improve the products and services offered through the Website. In April 2005, Benedict incorporated MMC and thereafter became the sole shareholder, president, and chief operating officer. In October 2006, Mystery ended his employment and involvement with MMC and began a new website called venusianarts.com.

    Rosen alleges that despite knowing that Mystery was no longer employed by MMC and no longer endorsing or approving the products sold on the Website, Defendants as well as Love Systems, Inc. (“Love Systems”) and King Edward the First (“King Edward”) continued to maintain that Mystery was involved with the products offered on the Website. According to Rosen, Benedict knowingly misrepresented that Mystery was involved with the products offered on the Website and used the proceeds from his misrepresentations to maintain control of MMC. Donnely allegedly participated in both the administrative activities of MMC and the training sessions offered on the Website. With regard to Lee, Hendricks, Sergeant, and Plyer, Rosen alleges that these individuals also participated in training sessions offered on the Website. The Complaint states that Defendants along with Love Systems and King Edward all formed a worldwide distribution network that advertised and distributed products and training fraudulently labeled so that they appeared to be from Mystery.

    In October 2006, Rosen began receiving numerous email communications and advertisements from the Website, purporting that Mystery was actively involved with the materials offered. From November 2006 to October 2007, Rosen used his credit card to purchase an e-book and a few CDs from the Website on the mistaken belief that Mystery either created or endorsed the items he purchased and that they were the result of Mystery’s most current techniques. After receiving these items via U.S. mail, Rosen spent considerable time and effort reviewing and practicing the techniques incorporated in the materials but did not receive the quality of information or benefits he expected. In July 2007, Rosen learned that Mystery was no longer associated with MMC and subsequently filed the instant Complaint in October 2007. On December 3, 2007, Donnely motioned to dismiss the Complaint pursuant to Rule 12(b)(6) and Rule 9(b).

    http://il.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20080314_0000242.NIL.htm/qx

    Nicholas Benedict was “Savoy”…

  14. Palma

    But my gut has always been that your core mission should never be women.

    Agreed. I’d say though, watching Mystery, his heart has always been about helping guys. That could be a mission, but lots of priests try that and don’t get paid either…

    Sure when he had the TV show his ego took off, but he lacks the narcissism and Machiavellianism of a Owen Cook for example, to make gobs of cash at this.

  15. @Culum

    And I’m willing to bet you do wait till you get enough IOIs from DHVing before you go into A3 and give her an investment hoop. You just don’t call it that.

    Possibly. But it’s also as simple as ignoring all this and going for the investment hoop regardless… only to see she’s not compliant… and pedaling back to A2. Rinse and repeat.

    Fair enough, this way it’s a diagnostic tool that also helps you push the interaction forward even if you’re oblivious to IOIs. Rebranding it is funny though.

    People just don’t understand MM or the underlying principles these days

    This whole misunderstanding of MM comes from treating it as work instructions/script instead of a process/principles. Hence reordering small steps, splitting them into different ones with new names, arguing that times have changed, missing the forest for the trees etc. All valid points… from the perspective of a step by step script which makes sense/works only in a specific context. But that’s not MM.

    A-C-S is a way to box the reality into comprehensible concepts. Much deeper than scripts, so always good to look under the surface.

    My take on it: https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2018/10/03/irl-goes-deeper-with-the-mystery-method/

    Blax, once again for the record, you’re doing (or used to do rather) exactly the same thing all the RSD guys are doing.

    Not sure if you’ve interacted with naturals like Blaximus in real life. Personality, temper, demeanor, laser focus, testosterone level – it’s all oozing and creating gravity in a social setting. In addition, if the guy is horny and unapologetically projects it, girls’ pointers align with his animal magnetism all too easily. Like a hockey skate melting ice under its pressure (instead of methodologically increasing temperature). Going for it as a natural sexy beast induces IOIs if you will. Consistent with MM but it’s a different reality not available to most (must be looks lol).

  16. IRL

    “Going for it as a natural sexy beast induces IOIs if you will.”

    Absolutely it can. But it can also not. A natural is highly adept at picking up on IOIs so they rarely get an IOD at this point so they train to act on the IOI without realizing it. And of course that added confidence boosts the feedback loop, success negating more success. Most of them start in A2…

    Goes back to what I was saying, you can use a “hold my cock” opener. It’s just going to produce more variable results if you aren’t calibrating to IOIs.

    There is a good video Jeffy put out, wherr he goes through a good infield. The takeaway is he says most people think he does outrageous shit but he points out he runs very very safe and calibrated game and his objective is to not fuck it up. Solid consistent game.

    Also throw out an observation. “Bat to the wall” as Palma might say it, amped up heavy Attraction stuff works more readily on 6/7 girls than 8/9 girls. Which is why pua infields feature tons of 6/7 girls and very few 8/9 girls.

    Yes AWALT and girls are girls but in social interaction there is a spectrum. Microcalibration comes into play. And that’s nothing new, just a call to pay closer attention to IOIs. No new marketing term.

  17. “I can say that I’ve never done anything without getting solid IOI’s.”

    Yeah you have a personality that generates these IOIs minus active thought.

    Better than the dreaded “free IOIs” from looks… 😆

    It’s a good place to be. And can get you laid on the reg as long as you go out.

    My reversion to MM was after trying to materially increase the hotness of pulls. Real 8/9 girls, dancers, models, actresses. And the shaman Yareally (for his faults and hatred of masculity a real savant on pua) pointed me back to the beginning.

    It’s. A process.

  18. @IRL – interesting question.

    Have I met Blax-style Naturals? Hmm. Now that I think about it..hardly any.

    I’ve met plenty of good looking guys (including ones who were also good socially, so they did well with women). I’ve met plenty of men who are very successful and confident and socially dominant and charming in politics and business etc (but that doesn’t necessarily mean they were good with women and I didn’t really get to see this category around women).

    But I’m not sure those qualify as true Naturals. Quasi-naturals perhaps for the goodlooking guys with good social skills who do well with women. To be fair, I think they do count as Naturals – that’s pretty much what Natural means.

    One of my best buddies is a legit Natural (300+ n-count, charming (when he wants to be), rich, intelligent successful etc – but he’s almost like a cliche of how YaReally used to describe Naturals – no idea what he’s doing, highly restricted to the specific social circles where he is known, almost never cold approaches, and is – notwithstanding being a Natural – basically an introverted loner who hates socializing).

    But Naturals with the kind of force of personality and charm Blax has? I’m really struggling (obviously I haven’t met Blax – I’m just making an inference based on years of reading his stories and anecdotes).

    Oh and I’ve met several of the top RSD instructors at various events/free tours etc that I attended over the years. Strong frame, strong social skills and pickup skills for sure, but the kind of force of personality you’re talking about? No.

    I remember many years ago in my early twenties (I may have still been a virgin at this point or maybe just after I lost it – certainly before I read The Game and got into PUA) getting into one of those random drunken conversations at 3am with a stranger who was walking home the same way I was. I can’t remember what we talked about, but after 15+ years, I still remember the impact the guy made on me. We only talked for about 5 minutes before he turned down another street (and he was pretty drunk). He was a well dressed black dude, bit older than me, maybe mid twenties or late twenties at most. He was tall and good looking but that’s not what I remember about him. There was just this sheer positive happy energy radiating off him – that’s the only way I can describe it. I distinctly remember thinking “Wow, women must be all over this guy”.

    [LOL – maybe it was Blax himself! But even 15 years ago, late 20s probably too young to be our Blax..]

    I’m really struggling to think of men with that kind of impact, even many of the Naturals I know didn’t have that (in relation to women, as opposed to business etc).

  19. @IRL – also just read your linked post (@newlyaloof – that blog is a great resource for “best of” posts from here).

    It’s really making me think – in fact I am setting aside a little more time tomorrow to think through it more – the idea that you truly understand something only as a feeling (I had no idea the concept could be extended to abstractions like physics).

    Especially for someone like me who specializes in overanalysis and “word salads” (you guys have been reading my FRs for years right?), but is now invested in full-time physical training and realizing that words are of limited use in describing the experiences I’m having and the skills I’m learning (the words just don’t convey enough information and can even actively confuse – I have to learn to “feel” something and then if I get the feeling – and therefore the associated skill – correct, I have to be able to “reach” that feeling again and then reach it consistently. But I can’t get to that point by listening to words and detailed instructions – they are useful to set the initial framework and the first steps – but to refine it and “get” the skill, it only comes by repetition, and then when something goes kind-of right, it “feels” different and then I try to recapture that feeling..and then it comes closer etc)

    This is a very new way of learning for me – with all the years of college and grad school and academics and a desk job behind me.

    But really, it’s the same in pickup and Game – what I’m really striving for is to reach that “feeling” – that feeling of kind of calm authority, of being centred and at peace with the girl (and indeed the men around too), reacting to me, of being the cause, and enjoying being authentically me in full flow. I’m even struggling to find the words to articulate it but you guys know what I mean – it happens in the best moments. And what if the best way to get there is explicitly to follow that “feeling” and try to optimize for that, instead of thinking so much about the A,B,C, steps to follow or the results I’m hoping for? What if optimizing for the “feeling” will automatically optimize for the right steps and the result (especially when one is no longer a beginner who needs to think consciously about what to say or what principle is applicable)?

    I’m kind of thinking aloud with this train of thought so it’s a bit unformed but I think you guys follow what I’m saying..

    It’s kind of like how Scott Adams talks in his book (How to Fail…and still Win Big – highly recommended book btw, and not just because he is obviously Red Pill) about how he just focusses on maximizing his personal energy levels in relation to any activity he undertakes and everything else falls into place.

  20. Culum

    “But really, it’s the same in pickup and Game – what I’m really striving for is to reach that “feeling” –”

    Lol. You forget all the times we told you to “remember that feeling”, to imprint it?

    You crack me up man.

  21. Sentient, you know, I guess I did.

    Or I didn’t forget it exactly – I remember now that you reminded me.

    But it didn’t internalize in the same way as it did just now – triggered by IRL’s post and the last few months of physical activity and endless repetitions of the same moves and feeling the tiny variations and improvements each time.

    The brain’s a funny thing.

  22. “My brother and sister got all the brains in the family”

    Use it or lose it.

    If you don’t use your brains, you will lose them.

    If you don’t use your muscles, you will lose them.

    Etc.

    The more you exercise your muscles, the stronger you become.

    The more you exercise your brain, the smarter you become.

    Etc.

  23. “last few months of physical activity and endless repetitions of the same moves and feeling the tiny variations”

    That’s interesting. Since middle school I’ve always been athletic. Blax was boxing etc. Wonder if there is correlation?

    I’ve also been great at pattern recognition too though. Interesting.

  24. @Culum

    But really, it’s the same in pickup and Game – what I’m really striving for is to reach that “feeling” – that feeling of kind of calm authority, of being centred and at peace with the girl (and indeed the men around too), reacting to me, of being the cause, and enjoying being authentically me in full flow. I’m even struggling to find the words to articulate it but you guys know what I mean – it happens in the best moments. And what if the best way to get there is explicitly to follow that “feeling” and try to optimize for that, instead of thinking so much about the A,B,C, steps to follow or the results I’m hoping for? What if optimizing for the “feeling” will automatically optimize for the right steps and the result (especially when one is no longer a beginner who needs to think consciously about what to say or what principle is applicable)?

    Sentient: ““last few months of physical activity and endless repetitions of the same moves and feeling the tiny variations”

    That’s interesting. Since middle school I’ve always been athletic. Blax was boxing etc. Wonder if there is correlation?”

    Yeah, it does have everything to do with that feeling of Michael Jordan driving a lane. It has to do with a flow state. Like IRL and Blax were alluding to in that idea of applying torque and feeling the car.

    It was described by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi in his book Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience.

    “Flow isn’t just something that happens to us, it’s something we can engineer. Something we can get better and better at, no matter what we’re doing, who we’re with or what life throws our way.”

    It is a thing that can be developed. It does involve: work instructions/script instead of a process/principles but then it indeed does go beyond that into a Natural State. That natural state is getting through the levels of Mastery to Unconscious Competence….

    It helps to:

    Choose and clearly define your goals – from the smallest task to finding your life’s authentic purpose;

    Find ways to measure progress– with clear feedback against an objective or visualised outcome;

    Learn to concentrate fully on the task at hand – focus attention on what you want, for as long as needed but no longer;

    Develop the skills you need to make progress – connecting and interacting ever more deeply with the world around you;

    andKeep raising the stakes – live in crescendo and ensure that your goals always stretch and inspire you.

    Note that in learning game, what would facilitate this? TaDa, a group of guys that you can collaborate with. That you can bounce your experiences off of. To help measure your progress, learn your blind spots and get new ideas. By continually collaborating on Field Reports and field experiences/reference experiences and have a sounding board. It helps to identify blind spots, ego investments, to keep focused on the tasks at hand, to help facilitate knowing what the stakes are and to help raise the stakes of performance.

    This is what you are trying to describe and get to, Culum.

    https://fastertomaster.com/flow-mihaly-csikszentmihalyi/

    The key to this flow state comes down to controlling your inner experience. And it’s about getting towards more happiness as a man being good at being a man as a verb.

  25. @Culum: a bit off-topic, but the ETH is up a lil bit since I purchased and the BTC is almost doubled from the price point I got (that includes when I reinforced my positions). It is not much in total but that is quite a nice return in percentage.
    This was partly or even mostly due to the news that Facebook was going to make their own crypto, I think (I don’t watch too closely)

    Of course I was in the red for quite a while and it wasn’t your fault and it isn’t your “fault” now either but… Thanks for the encouragement, without which I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have gone into it.

    I asked you this before, but there is a possibility that this is another boom in a continued cycle of booms and busts. I wonder if I should not touch it, or if I should sell ETH and move all into BTC / reinforce the position, or cash out and wait (with the idea that a bust is coming shortly to go back in somewhere during the bust).

  26. Wasn’t the point of game originally to get back at the know-it-all jack ass father that enjoyed being tall and good-looking but insisted he got whatever he wanted by pulling himself up by the boot-strap and then challenging you to succeed despite him acting like a total douche to you and taking credit for your successes while spiting you for them?

  27. @Sentient

    “Going for it as a natural sexy beast induces IOIs if you will.”

    Absolutely it can. But it can also not.

    You know it, Bobby Peru 😉

    Microcalibration comes into play. And that’s nothing new, just a call to pay closer attention to IOIs.

    100%

    I’d say there are two important things that happen: 1) this natural demeanor (maybe even piss taking) generates a lot of DHV, including preselection, and 2) the whole approach is still only a diagnostic tool, it forces girls to show their true buying temperature without giving them the certainty of A3 yet. There’s more finesse, sensing girls’ state and calibrating to it in the moment than meets the incel’s eye.

    Of course there’ll be instances of guys simply shaking a tree, grabbing whatever IOIs fall and going home with that. You don’t control what falls into your lap though.

    @Culum

    Another piece on emotions:
    https://therationalmale.com/2018/04/30/the-emotional-process/#comment-250044

  28. “But it’s also as simple as ignoring all this and going for the investment hoop regardless”

    “it’s a diagnostic tool that also helps you push the interaction forward even if you’re oblivious to IOIs.”

    Investment hoops follow a tease/cold read/takeaway/disqualifier…..which causes a spike in her emotions…call that an Indicator Of Interest if you want lol. But I wouldn’t. (these are IOIs: https://www.reddit.com/r/PUApolyamory/comments/26fm2i/pua_mysterys_list_of_iois_indicators_of_interest/)

    All I care about is, if she’s complying or not. If yes, I do X action. If no, I do Y action.

    Open:

    [Open from the side]

    You: Excuse me where did you get that dress? [investment hoop]
    Her: Why? [non compliance: didn’t answer my question]
    You: because you’re literally like the 4th girl I’ve seen in the past hour or so, wearing that exact dress. So I was wondering if ya’ll part of some cultish secret society shit or something [tease]
    Her: Haha. nope definitely not.
    You: lol. But yeah. It’s gotta suck that summer’s coming to an end soon. No more of this wearing clothes that exposes our skin and sexy body (start flexing your guns) to strangers (humorously beginning to set a sexual frame to our interaction)
    Her: lol
    You: And on to wearing multiple layers. Which actually does leave more room for imagination.
    Her: ya I like fall better because blah blah blah
    You: Really? That’s Interesting. You look more like a summer person to me [cold read]
    Her: lol why? (is this an indicator of interest…lol…I’m just spiking her emotions)
    You: Where are you’re friends btw? [investment hoop…leaving the ‘cold read’ loop open]
    Her: Um (looks around room) they’re over there.
    You: Ah ok. You can go over to them if you want. I’m just kinda fucking around till my friend to shows up [disqualifying myself]
    Her: No its fine. Where are you from btw? [now THIS I count as an IOI].
    You: Take a wild guess [investment hoop]
    Her: Hmm…Spain?
    You: nah way off. I’ll give you a hint. Do you know your South America countries?
    Her: yeah I’ve been down to Brazil before. (now I have a good topic to talk about}
    You: ok it starts with the letter “C”
    Her: hmmm Cuba?
    You: nope.
    Her: I don’t know any others haha.
    You: damn girl for real? man I thought you was a South American expert. Damn (disqualifying her/stripping her of validation)
    Her: I’m sorry haha
    You: Alright I’ll tell you later. But I’m curious. why were you in Brazil? I was actually down in Sao Paulo with my boys a couple months ago. It was so fucking beautiful. [investment hoop…giving her an opportunity to get my validation back]
    Her: yeah it really is. I was there because blah blah blah [investing]
    You: Ah that’s really cool (reward). Something that I like about countries like Brazil is that….[exploring topic]

    Tease/disqualify/cold read -> investment hoop -> compliance/investing -> reward -> explore topic

    Ya’ll gonna point me to this chart:

    https://i1.wp.com/i45.tinypic.com/33elrae.jpg

    But Investment hoops aren’t Demonstrating Higher Value (hmmm…in a way they kinda are tho. because what kind of guy makes hot girls qualify themselves to him, instead of the usual other way around? A High Value guy.) So the IOI/IOD under the DHV, would be her investing (IOI) or not complying (IOD) to my hoop.

    If she invests, I respond by rewarding her (IOI) and then vibing/exploring the topic with her. On the chart it says, I’d need to throw her a compliance test in response to her IOI (investing) rather than rewarding her. And I’ll do that….AFTER I reward her. (“damn Natalya that’s actually pretty cool. You really something else. Listen, I’m kinda thirsty, wanna come with me to get a drink?” (my vibe is assuming she will say yes. Like I’m expecting a yes. Already moving towards the bar.)

    If she doesn’t comply then I’ll, go back to IOD (teasing/disqualifying/cold read).

  29. “Her: Why? [non compliance: didn’t answer my question]
    You: because you’re literally like the 4th girl I’ve seen in the past hour or so, wearing that exact dress. So I was wondering if ya’ll part of some cultish secret society shit or something [tease]”

    you followed an IOD with a DHV…just like the MM loop

    a tease is a DHV because:

    1) it’s inherently judgmental, which means that you assume higher status
    2) it’s inherently engaging, which means that you assume a right to intimacy

    J, you’re just following the loop without realizing it

  30. I’ll point you back to the book J.

    Cause this…

    “[Open from the side]

    You: Excuse me where did you get that dress? [investment hoop]”

    Is straight Mystery indirect opener. Not an investment hoop. Lol.

    So go to chapter one and watch Mystery

    A) open from the side (and body rock)
    B) throw aFalse time constraint
    “Hey. One sec. I have to get back to my friends”
    C) open ” so answer a question for me, who lies more, guys or girls”?

    MM 101. Maybe try Audible…

  31. “open ” so answer a question for me, who lies more, guys or girls””

    I don’t do cringy 2003 pickup lines. But thanks.

  32. But yeah. I know what an indirect opener is, brah. I’ve been doing pickup for a couple years now if ya didn’t know.

    The reason I called it an investment loop is because I’m asking for compliance. Straight from the open. She can either comply with my question or not.

    Same with the “who lies more” opener. She either doesn’t comply (“I don’t care”/”is that your best pickup line?”) in which case I’d IOD (tease/cold read) or complies, in which case I’d continue my routine.

    If she complies, do X (reward/compliance test/explore topic).

    If she doesn’t comply, do Y (tease/disqualify/takeaway/sexually misinterpret).

  33. @Sentient – yes, it’s an interesting train of thought. Kind of thing that could be made into a blog post.

    I don’t want to read too much into it, but definite difference in how I perceive skill development and “feeling” how I access the right state of mind.

    I was a typical nerd in school – the most exercise I got was getting my ass off the computer and walking downstairs to eat. Certainly I’ve learnt skills, both then and as an adult, but all related to abstract thought, nothing physical (except sex I suppose but even there you’ve told me many times not to worry about my technique so much and focus on the mindset, albeit with different words).

    This is the first time I’ve pursued any physical activity in a meaningful way and actually become better at it over time (I’m still at the “noob gains” level so actually the improvements from being “totally useless” are coming quite rapidly). And that’s certainly made me understand something on a non-verbal level.

    The repetition and practice and accessing the right mindset is key. Even my pickup skills – I used to be shit at escalation and sexualization. Then I got to be really good – first by getting into text conversations with hundreds of online girls and learning to sexualize there and then by going on dozens (if not 200+) online dates, although it didn’t feel like repetition so much because it was spread over years.

    Even opening – the times I completely nailed opening were when I focussed on repetition – like during HABD’s 400 Open challenge and a few other smaller scale versions in clubs (and I remember HABD kept asking if I’d reached “the feeling” yet – the feeling of it all becoming routine and a bit boring to go and open another girl, ho-hum – which I did, right at the end of the challenge, but I’ve struggled to recapture that feeling consistently – which is actually very similar to my physical training – first I can’t do something at all. Then I kind of fluke into it, then I target that feeling and it starts to happen more often..).

    Same thing with my escalation/closing and my online dates becoming boring – first it happened, then it happened occasionally, then it happened regularly. But with my opening I hit the “first it happened” stage, but never did the Second 400 Challenge like HABD suggested to “lock” it into consistency and reach “regularity”

    @IAS – will swing by later and post some thoughts for you. It depends on the investing timeframe you have but if you’re not in a hurry, no particular reason to sell now. Facebook is one reason but the impact of that was more in June. Right now the narrative (and no narrative is a perfect description of cause and effect) is more to do with China and people moving out of yuan into BTC as digital gold etc as a safe haven during a trade war and QE etc.

  34. Culum,

    “But really, it’s the same in pickup and Game – what I’m really striving for is to reach that “feeling” – that feeling of kind of calm authority, of being centred and at peace with the girl (and indeed the men around too), reacting to me, of being the cause, and enjoying being authentically me in full flow. I’m even struggling to find the words to articulate it but you guys know what I mean – it happens in the best moments. And what if the best way to get there is explicitly to follow that “feeling” and try to optimize for that, instead of thinking so much about the A,B,C, steps to follow or the results I’m hoping for? What if optimizing for the “feeling” will automatically optimize for the right steps and the result (especially when one is no longer a beginner who needs to think consciously about what to say or what principle is applicable)?”

    What you are looking for is the absence of fear within yourself, you are looking to become free from external constraints, this no easy task. A lot of pain and suffering to get there but it is a worthwhile path. No one is completely free from fear but the higher the percentage the more free you are.

    It will be ironic that if you where to reach this state you may realize that girls/women are no longer a top priority to spend your time on. Each man is different in how it expresses due to unique personality. Indeed you may become a “loner” with the ability to be extremely charming. I say this humbly, you have a lot to learn……

  35. @j
    I left a comment on this page a which is a few posts above now with my situation. Could you please help me?

  36. FR
    Went out last night. Opened a 2-set. Asked who they were. Started teasing one of the girls about her posh accent and stuff. Cold read them about their jobs and we had a fun little convo. We wanted to go too a different bar and they wanted to stay so I said ‘maybe i’ll bump into you later’ and left.

    I then get a text from the girl I cold approached 3 weeks back who I kissed : https://imgur.com/a/y0USjdZ

    I’m trying to arrange to meet her as I really wanna bang her, but it’s hard and she’s messing me around as she’s on a works night out thing.

    I open a few more sets. Couple of fast rejections. Some girls (especially very young hot ones) simply don’t wanna give you a shot sometimes. It is what it is.

    I then bump into the 2 set from earlier in a different bar. Later now. I open them at the bar and tease them about followning me and we banter a bit, I isolate my one a little more and ask her some stuff and I’m sensing clear interest. I do some push-pull stuff and then I start to kind of rub her pussy with my leg as we dance and she’s into it. She can’t hear what i’m saying though and it’s winding me up so I take her outside and as we’re talking I grab her and position myself so my back is leaning against the wall and put her handsome around me. After a while I go for the kiss

    I get a text from the girl in the pic saying that she is now in a gay bar down the road and that she has to go home soon 🙁 Shame.

    I forget her and carry on with my girl. I’m trying to keep her friend amused and her friend tells me that she’s happy to sleep in the lounge if I wanna bang her friend lol

    So I tell my girl to invite me to her house shortly after lol. I’m like ”I’m out of money. Drinks are free at your house! Take me there!!”” She laughs and tells me ‘fine’ and then she pays for a cab for me and her friend to go back to her flat. It’s quite a nice place actually. She’s only like 24.

    We all drink on the balcony and then I just lead her into the bedroom and bang her for over an hour.

    Stayed with her until midday and then left

  37. @Palma

    Went out on a usual gig on my own last night despite not feeling like it.

    Props.

    I need a strategy for dealing with that but I can’t work one out because I rely on talking to them and the venues just get louder as the night goes on.

    If you want P in V compliance, start small first. See if you can isolate from the group. Just turn her away from them. Then move her to another part of the bar. Then outside etc. If you haven’t unlocked/addressed something, she’ll let you know (=objections). Figuring our her logistics upfront helps too (who’s with her, how do they all get home etc). Do it with several sets and you’ll notice patterns.

    West Indian Archie quoting Saul Tee:

    …compliance is…something.. you can..build. That’s all ‘game’…is …Approaching a girl whose initial level of compliance for you is low, and increasing it over a relatively short period of time…It’s not ‘attraction’. It’s not ‘self-amusement’. It’s not ‘momentum’. It’s not ‘freedom from outcome’. It’s not ‘unplugging from validation’. All those concepts…are not ends in themselves. Rather, they are a means with the ultimate ends of building compliance.

    I just really wanted something to pivot off rather than standing there like a lemon.

    Perfect. Something interesting is more likely to happen if you interact with anyone.

    We walk in and he says “you can smell the oestrogen in the air, they all want to get laid”. I hadn’t picked that up on my radar, but when I think about it there have been situations in the past where I have felt heat radiating off women and that’s probably the same thing.

    Maybe. Or maybe it’s just his way of saying what we know here: if they’re out, they’re open to getting the D. This is a good mindset to have.

    Sometimes I manage to get them what I call “on cam” that’s a bit of a petrol head term but it’s the point where the interaction is flying so well that they don’t stop laughing from the last line before the next line.

    High notes are ideal points to build compliance (and isolate). “That’s all game is”.

    “You’re having a laugh and I’m thirsty. You! Come with me, you’ll help me with my drink.”

    The banter goes on and on and she’s moving her drink between her hands so she can use her spare hand to flick her hair behind each ear. Plus she’s touching me repeatedly with each free hand.

    Did you try to move her around/away?

    It’s very early in the night and I don’t fancy my chances splitting her from the group

    You don’t need to pull (big ask) if you don’t feel the chances are low, but isolation from the group (even a few steps away) is a good habit. It tests AND builds compliance, plus it gives you enough privacy without other girls listening.

    so I hit her for the number.

    I assume you did that without the other friend listening. Did she eject herself?

    She says she can’t she’s married.

    For the record lol. This tells you she’s now free of any responsibility, wants you to not fuck it up in front of her friends and hopes you can solve the puzzle.

    Me “ha! Confess bitch – you’re not”

    Hahaha

    I forget what happened then but I pulled back and went back into banter with her and ended up talking to another woman behind me for a bit. In that time the group of 6 had re arranged themselves so a brunette was bumping into me.

    You do realize this rearrangement happened to help the brunette get laid? Funny creatures.

    My “wingman” […] wants to bar hop, and I’m like “are you fucking mad?” He’s got – at my best estimate 7 nailed on women (including some solid ones) who have directly approached him and he could bang, and I’ve got 3 (including married one) that I could bang if we stuck it out. We just need the place to thin out a bit as there aren’t enough men and I have to move between sets ignoring a few and see what rises to the top.

    He’s having none of it so I reluctantly agree to move bar. A bit more game in second bar – again I’m doing the work, but it’s a fail so I decide to go back to the earlier bar and work a circle between the previous options as by now they’ll be bored and easier to split.

    I don’t think you need a wingman. Sure, it’s easier at the beginning because there’s someone to talk to, but later in the night you’re on your own.

    It’s always good to talk to anyone. Opening guys is as easy as “damn man, dat ass there, you should talk to her” and then just roll with whatever they say. Even join the group for a brief moment (hardly anyone is on their own).

    If you need someone to occupy girls in the group while you talk to the target, merge sets.

  38. @gamenoob

    “I used to do direct London style daygame and hardly any sets would hook. Now, I am picking only lone stationary girls like Bacchus advises and have an almost 50 percent hook rate.”

    Nice bro. Glad SMMA’s having a positive impact on your game.

    “I approach far less, sometimes in a two hour daygame session, I approach just 4 women. Is that okay?”

    yeah you good. Bacchus has said that sometimes, he’ll only approach 1-2 girls per session. Due to his standards being ridiculously high lol.

  39. FR

    I went to an out of town bar Fri. night. Lots of people. Women don’t grind on each other. Not much hip hop and girls aren’t as drunk as my hometown bar.

    A mountain of a guy out with his family opened me about what I would do with the pretty young girls in front of us. He’s drunk and fun. I chat with him and meet his family and dance with a couple of the girls. Fun time.

    I chat a bit with a waitress and she’s looking for sympathy because of her shitty life. It’s a shit test. This broad wants mistreatment and sees sympathy as weakness. Later in the night I reapproach a two-set seated at a table and sit down to chat with them. I danced with both girls and I like one of them because she’s lit up around me. Big smile and her eyes are focused on me. The other is attracted to me, but reserved. While I’m chatting, the waitress approaches and interrupts. I’m surprised by the cockblock and attention-grab and take off.

    Guess I should have waited it out and maybe teased the waitress.

  40. “yeah you good. Bacchus has said that sometimes, he’ll only approach 1-2 girls per session. Due to his standards being ridiculously high lol.”

    yeah, couldn’t be because he has low energy, low T, and shitty game

  41. Blax

    Triple Digit Club may mean thrusts per minute.

    Palma

    Can’t make the covert overt. You know they aren’t getting the sex they want, you “just get it”. Now just add secret society judiciousness to the social setting. Get the number for a plausible reason other than banging, away from her friends viewing.

    And wings suck.

  42. Sentient

    😂 that looks like ” nothing better to do ” sex. Technically, it is ” sex ” because P in V, but if I had to choose between that and watching the gane, the game would probably win.

  43. It was the 4th fuck session. I was pretty exhausted by then. and wanted to fuck her one last time before she left. figured i’d take a short video with my phone for ego lol.

    I could upload the entire 3 hour clip if ya’ll want tho.

  44. @ j

    Thank you. But I feel sometimes, I will not improve quickly, if I just approach so few women.

    And you also mention that you are in a group, where the veterans who are purely interested in Game exchange ideas and posts. Can I have access to that group? Or view the posts?

    I really get lost on these Redpill spaces where people talk about feminism and other gender issues. I have read the Rational Male thoroughly, I understand what I should not do to fuck up my life. But I want to use this knowledge to build an awesome life and a huge part of that for me is banging beautiful women. I am at Uni now and have ample free time and my top priority is to get really good at Game. Would love to be on a forum dedicated to only that and not other issues. Any forums like that you could let me know about?

  45. That Bacchus girl is indeed flames, but it’s nothing to do with his cheesy ass NLP lol. (some of his FR’s I read made me cringe so hard. Not gonna lie)
    Dudes a male model. She opened HIM! (as is the case in basically every LR I’ve ever read of his)
    You really can’t fail when a girl thinks you’re very handsome, and that’s his secret. Fair play, though. I think she’s very pretty

  46. @gamenoob

    “I feel sometimes, I will not improve quickly, if I just approach so few women”.

    “And you also mention that you are in a group, where the veterans who are purely interested in Game exchange ideas and posts.”

    Yeah, its a small private facebook group chat. I was invited because of my posts and lay reports I wrote on sedfast. If you post a couple good FRs/LRs on here or on the GirlsChase forum, then I’ll rep you, and let them know, you wanna join. (Can’t add you myself, cause I’m not an admin). Don’t know when the new forum that was suppose to go live in June, will be up. But all the members of the group chat, will be on there when its up.

  47. Gamenoob

    what I’m going to say isn’t popular.

    Zero fucks…😁

    It’s not wise to make ” banging beautiful women ” a life goal. Men should bang women, as ” beautiful ” as they have access to and can manage, but what you have to understand is the ” why ” of the thing.

    Is ” beautiful ” by your own standards? How does banging beautiful women actually enhance your life – long term?

    Faster way to understanding is to ” bang ” women. Very few people take their driving test in Ferraris or buggatis. I’d wager that 99% of guys don’t start out having sex with models and hb9’s. Don’t lie to yourself( ever ) as you endeavour to grow as a man.

    Keep.perspective and don’t blow shit out of proportion. ” pussy ” won’t do anything for your life in actuality, and if it does, you’ve got more serious issues to work on.

  48. Gamenoob

    what I’m going to say isn’t popular.

    Zero fucks…😁

    It’s not wise to make ” banging beautiful women ” a life goal. Men should bang women, as ” beautiful ” as they have access to and can manage, but what you have to understand is the ” why ” of the thing.

    Is ” beautiful ” by your own standards? How does banging beautiful women actually enhance your life – long term?

    Faster way to understanding is to ” bang ” women. Very few people take their driving test in Ferraris or buggatis. I’d water that 99% of guys don’t start out having sex with models and hb9’s. Don’t like to yourself( ever ) as you endeavour to grow as a man.

    Keep.perspective and don’t blow shit out of proportion. ” pussy ” won’t do anything for your life in actuality, and if it does, you’ve got more serious issued to work on.

  49. @Blaximus

    You are dropping some gold wisdom on these guys, but they just don’t get it(yet). When you are spending a lot of time and energy on something the first question you need to ask is the , “Why”? If some of these guys just slowed down and thought about the why and were honest with themselves they could start inching towards their actual real goal which is most likely the inner calm/certainty most of them are seeking, that goal in all actuality has almost zero to do with women.

    Some of these guys are postponing some very real life lessons that should be learned in your teens/20s till their 30s/40/50s and it’s not going to work out well. Foundations need to be built in the financial/spiritual/self/physical/character and these take years to truly build them strong and none of them really involve women. The world is so much more than women, they are actually a very tiny little part of it………

  50. @ Blaximus

    Okay. Maybe I was not clear. By beautiful I mean the woman who I look at and go, I would love to do her. I already get women, but they are not the ones I choose. They choose me. I want to choose the women I want. And no, I am not delusional. I am not looking to bang models. I call myself a Gamenoob because I know I am a newbie. The beautiful women I am talking about are everyday women I see in the mall, on the street, in bus stops etc.What you said makes no sense, why should I not improve my Game and get more attractive women?

    This is not the only thing I am concentrating on. After finding the Redpill, I have quit my job which I hated. Moved to Europe, went back to University, started learning a new language, quit porn and building a life that I want and is not based around pleasing anyone else.

  51. @foxguy

    I am really sick of this manosphere thing where people are shamed for trying to learn Game. What makes you think we are concentrating only on women?? Just because we want to get good at it.

    What is the use of all this if we don’t take action. One of the fundamental things the sphere is built on and what Rollo emphasizes also, us to learn Game. And I am doing that. Just because we have the drive to get good at Game does not mean we are defective. That’s why I would rather talk to on a forum where people are actually just looking to get good at Game than just talk about how society has changed and what will happen in the future yada yada yada…

  52. @Gamenoob92

    Let’s give this a shot, if not for your benefit than for the benefit of others.

    First, it’s good you are asking questions, this is a start, second once you gain true wisdom you will find you will stop asking questions to others and will only ask most questions to yourself, you will become your own true mental point of origin. What is it you want? Not what the Manosphere says you should want ,or what Foxguy says you should want, or Rollo or anybody but yourself. Ask yourself what you yourself really really want out of this life, you will find it’s not an easy question to answer for a man if you are being truly honest, you will have to tackle some very hard questions at that point, much harder and scarier than women.

    Game does exist and it does work, but natural game is simply a manifestation of who that guy really is, it’s just his essence ,his security the low anxiety towards the world, it actually has little to do with women. PUA game is the exact opposite, it’s not being who you truly are but rather giving a memorized/internalized script and gives the right inputs to the woman so you can have sex with her, which is fine. This is where the thinking must now begin, who holds the true power in a PUA game interaction? The woman who is just being her natural flawed self, or the man who is not being his natural self and having to pretend to a certain extent? Why is he pretending? Because he feels that he himself is not enough for the woman is the natural answer. My hat is off to these PUA guys for sacrificing themselves like this, they have gathered a ton of cold hard evidence about women at great cost to their own psychological selfs as evidenced by constant mental breakdowns(mystery) or just downright settling down for sub optimal situations such as Tucker Max, none of them end up well, you lose yourself by pretending to be someone you are not, it carries immense psychological damage.

    Anytime you have to pretend to be someone you are not, you are giving the other party power over you, even if you think you are getting something out of them, for what is more powerful than making a man betray himself willingly ? I

  53. @IAS

    Okay, so re ETH and BTC, it really all depends on what your investing timeframe is.

    In the short term (days/weeks/months) nobody knows what is going to happen. Especially with the volatility in this market. There are lots of narratives (market took off in June because of Facebook’s Libra, BTC is improving now because Chinese are piling into Bitcoin to get out of the yuan, fears of trade war turning into a quasi-gold asset etc) and they are probably true to varying degrees, but the market is still very immature and unregulated and easy to manipulate so never take any narrative as gospel.

    In the medium to long term (6 months to 2-3 years) my personal view (obviously no guarantees in life) is that we hit bottom in a long term boom/bust cycle (the latest of several) in Dec 2018 (with BTC low $3ks and ETH at $80). Then we had a big jump up to about `$6k BTC/sub $150 ETH (I think this is around the time you bought in, which is very good from a long term perspective). And then in June another big jump after Facebook Libra news, to BTC around $13k and ETH about $360, which then fell back to about $9500/$190ish.

    Since then BTC has recovered back to $11-12k right now (possibly on China/yuan/trade war/safe haven narrative) and ETH much less recovered (around $215 now).

    I think we hit bottom in Dec 2018 and are in the very early stages of the next bull run. It’s not really a bull run yet but it’s in the consolidation/slow ascent stage. Bitcoin has its next “halvening” in spring/summer 2020 (every 4 years, the supply of BTC created by mining every day – ie, Bitcoin inflation- drops in half overnight and since supply goes off a cliff, halvenings have traditionally resulted in major price increases in the year following them – the last halvening in 2016 led to the 2017 bull run etc). As for ETH it is scheduled to undergo major (revolutionary really) technical upgrades (if you really want to know, google “ETH sharding” [speed upgrade] and “ETH Proof of Stake” (which will turn ETH into a revenue/interest generating asset – and also sharply drop its inflation rate as well). This upgrade will happen in phases in 2020 and 2021, but the first part is due to go live early 2020.

    Both the above suggest that prices are likely to take off in a big way in late 2020/2021 – although could happen early if the market prices it in early. The BTC halvening is guaranteed to happen. The market is more skeptical of ETH because the technical upgrade is unprecedented and has been delayed before and there is no guarantee it will be a success. But ETH is still at 1/7th its All Time High price in Jan 2018. BTC is already at 60-70% of its ATH so ETH has more room to grow.

    Obviously cycles cannot go on like this forever – either the sector will mature and become less volatile (already the days of 100x increases etc are over for the biggest cryptos like BTC and ETH) or it will go to zero and be essentially useless. I personally think it will be the former, although it will take years and at least a couple more cycles but no guarantees obviously.

    There are also cycles within cycles. Again these are not written in stone – they are general guidelines, but typically when you see new money enter the crypto space, it usually goes to Bitcoin – as the biggest and best known and “safest”. Then when profits are made in Bitcoin (and those investors are more used to the space), the funds tend to flow into the smaller cryptos, starting with ETH, and then XRP and others. This means that you see a cycle often where Bitcoin races ahead, leaving everything else in the dust (which is what is happening right now), and then BTC slows down or falls a bit, and the other coins start to move. When the market is falling, it’s the opposite process – investors go out of the alt coins, and they fall first and they go into BTC, and then BTC falls next if they retreat out of cryptos entirely.

    All of this is a fancy way of saying that unless you need the money, I’d advise you to hold your investment for a couple of years, past the next Bitcoin halvening and after the ETH 2.0 upgrade is completed. You’re likely to see a significantly higher return.

    If you must sell now and take profits, it is a trickier decision.

    My first reaction is to say that Bitcoin has had a good run and ETH is so weak (if you were going to sell ETH you should have sold it at $350 in late June/early July, not now at $215), so you’d be silly to sell ETH so low – you’re better to sell Bitcoin and take some of the larger profits you made on it, because ETH is likely to be rebound more.

    However, the counter-argument to that is that no one knows how long Bitcoin’s strength will run (especially if this trade war/China/safe haven stuff continues, BTC could go way higher to $20k or even $30k before it slows down and other coins catch up) or how long ETH’s weakness will continue (because a lot of the ETH weakness is tied to the market being unconvinced about the ETH 2.0 upgrade going through on time and we won’t know that till next year).

    So I don’t know. I am personally a big fan of ETH so I’d sell my BTC, but that’s more of an emotional decision than a purely rational one…the truth is I don’t know. I’d probably sell some BTC and lock i profits still..

    Does that answer your question? Let me know if it does (or doesn’t).

    PS – to answer your question re “is a bust coming”. Again, no one knows. But my feeling is that the bottom of the cycle hit in Dec 2018 and we won’t be going back to a proper bust at $3k BTC/sub $100 ETH levels – we are in the uptrend phase of the cycle now. But crypto is so volatile there will be plenty of dips along the way – at pretty much any price point you can be pretty sure that you will get opportunities to buy 20% lower or 20% higher in normal volatility before a more long term move up. So if you want to want to cash out and hope to buy back into BTC at 10k, that’s a reasonable bet. If you want to buy back at 5-6k BTC – well, that’s more risky.

    I would also warn you – I spend a couple of hours a day on this stuff and have done for two years now and barely have a grip on crypto, and I lost a lot of money trading before getting even to this point. And active trading is a skillset in itself (across markets, not just limited to crypto). If you don’t have the time and skillset, I would strongly advise against trading the market actively. It’s rarely worth it. You’re almost certainly better off just holding your crypto till 2021 and then selling it then. If you’re feeling particularly confident, buy some more now (or buy 100 Euros each month or whatever you can afford) and just hold till 2021. And then don’t think too much about it and focus on your day job/core competency and check prices once a month or so.

  54. @Palma

    I know you know but worth repeating:

    Going with or leading her out has a higher probability of success than telling her to admit she wants your D, yes.

    😉

  55. @ J

    Thanks a ton! The Todd video was great. Realistic and sustainable process to get good at Game.
    Sure. I have a field report I wanted you to critique but they are basic ones, since I am still a newbie and they are not lay reports.

  56. @Gamenoob92 – post ’em and we’ll critique ’em and if you follow the advice and keep going out you’ll have to change your username pretty soon.

    I have my disagreements with @j on various issues to do with broader mindset (you’ve seen some of our disagreements right in the last couple of pages of this thread) but he’s very good on basic PUA stuff that you’re trying to learn and the specifics (and Todd’s videos are generally great – he’s one of my favourite PUAs).

    If you’ve not read YaReally’s stuff, you really need to do so stat. Single best Game resource I know of. Some of his Archive is deleted but you can poke around and find the Book of YaReally PDF or archive of the whole old website.

    But you can start here with YaReally’s Newbie Guide which will really benefit you (it was copied to Reddit, although originally posted here in the TRM comment threads):

    https://www.reddit.com/r/yareally/comments/5pi5fv/newbie_guide_as_of_september_3rd_2016/

  57. Gamenoob

    ” I am really sick of this manosphere thing where people are shamed for trying to learn Game. What makes you think we are concentrating only on women?? Just because we want to get good at it.

    What is the use of all this if we don’t take action. One of the fundamental things the sphere is built on and what Rollo emphasizes also, us to learn Game. And I am doing that. Just because we have the drive to get good at Game does not mean we are defective. That’s why I would rather talk to on a forum where people are actually just looking to get good at Game than just talk about how society has changed and what will happen in the future yada yada yada…”

    How much ” shaming ” ( men don’t shame, nor can they be shamed btw ) are you seeing?

    Try not to do the standard pua guy thing of becoming sensitive to criticism. I’m ” sick and tired ” of that myself. I have no issues with guys learning pickup. ” Game ” is life, so no, it ain’t all just about getting good with women.

    For what it’s worth since you are a noob ( your word ) and I’m being honest, in the entire time I’ve been aware of pua, I don’t see it as ” being good with women ” unless you only define that as having sex. It’s better and more accurate to say ” I want to get good at having ?getting women to have sex with me “. There’s a difference.

    Read what Culum stated above about ” feel ” ( excellent points he’s making – as someone that is well versed in pua no less ).

    I don’t think it’s possible ( or I have yet to see it ) to teach men nuance, sensory perceptions and the like, therefore it will be extremely difficult to become good with women overall.

    Hence the idea that – ” What makes you think we are concentrating only on women?? Just because we want to get good at it. “

    Now, don’t even get me wrong, I am 100% all for guys having sex with women that they choose to. I get what you’re saying right up until you started with the whole ” shaming ” thing. You are driving to get good at pickup, and I don’t see anyone saying that’s not good.

    So you’ll find tons of help here. J is a wealth of knowledge about blogs and forums and videos…… ( ohhhhhh shade….lol )

    Okay podna???

    Now, let me get back to thinking about what Culum posted about ” feel “, because he’s got my mind racing @ 200 mph.

  58. Palma

    Lol.

    I try not to talk about my ” N ” count ( I didn’t know what an N was either until I started reading the comments here ) because it’s mostly inconsequential at the end of the day.

    The only reason I have an idea is because my 1st wife ( and second, but I didn’t answer her question ) asked me, because she’d known me since I was 15 or so, and she’d known firsthand that I was knocking chicks back, including many of her friends and neighbors. She popped that question after seeing my high school year book with little tiny asterisks next to many girls pictures, and reading the ” signings ” in the book from girls.

    Many guys here know roughly my N count because I broke my rule about not talking about it, after telling guys it doesn’t matter, because scrib kept talking about his N-100+ over and over and over again, and his penchant for using it to try and belittle guys with that number.

    Oddly enough, I can remember practically every chick I’d had sex with, but I don’t know what number they were.

    Yeah, the porn J posted…. idk man. Whatever. But if I was to post up something like that, it’d have my face in it and I’d be longstroking the hell out of the chick, otherwise what’s the point?

  59. @foxguy

    Yes, lets do this. Till my patience runs out at least.

    “First, it’s good you are asking questions, this is a start, second once you gain true wisdom you will find you will stop asking questions to others and will only ask most questions to yourself, you will become your own true mental point of origin.”

    This is ridiculous shit! What does mental point of origin have to do with a newbie at Game asking a more experienced person about something. So the beginner who asks an advance tennis player for tips is not his own mental point of origin? Wtf? Shows you have misinterpreted what mental point of origin is.

    Secondly, you talk about after I get true wisdom I will not ask questions to others. And how do I get true wisdom? By posting on manosphere forums without doing anything and ranting about women and their natures??

    And with this shit about being oneself, you get even more ridiculous. It is laughable. So the guy who prepares for his job interview and presents himself in a better more persuasive manner is not being himself? He should not improve?

    Please do not get started with criticizing Game and PUA. And do not take extreme examples like Mystery and other people. There are far more guys who do not improve with women who kill themselves over women than PUAs having mental problems.

    Natural Game!! Ahh what a marketing strategy. You do not have to change, be yourself, express yourself and everything will happen. Take a newcomer into a boxing ring and tell him to just punch well and avoid getting hit. It is as simple, no techniques, no methods, no learning tools and you will get a “NATURAL” boxing champion. (rolls eyes).

  60. @ Blaximus

    I took exception to foxguy for what he wrote about us not being ourselves for looking to improve. We are considered as people “obsessed with women”. As far as your post was concerned, I was just clarifying that I am not making learning Game my only goal in life.

    I listed the other things I am doing and that I do not have unrealistic expectations about wanting to bang models.
    It is just that I have different people that I ask questions about on my fitness goals, different people I consult for my language learning skills and I ask advanced guys here for help with Game as simple as that.

    Since I only post questions about Game here, it does not mean that I am only doing that in my life.

  61. @palmasailor

    ”ford -Looks like you’ve got tighter game than me rude boy”

    ha, I doubt it. We just kind of clicked and I could sense attraction from her fairly early on, so it was more about just not messing it up (which is probably easier said that done, depending on just how attracted to you she is)

    She was quite hot, but there were definitely hotter girls in the club who I wanted more but who weren’t interested in me lol

    Going to Prague on Wednesday for a few days so hopefuly gonna get the chance to hit on some Czech girls!

    But I just really wanna bang that girl whose pic I posted. She’s my type (the one I kissed a few weeks back). I’m a bit stuck in limbo with her. Still texting but she’s already kind of blown me off once when I suggested we go out. Shame I wasn’t able to get her to meet me last night when she was already out with her friends and we were texting and stuff. Although tbh I seem to have a weird ‘thing’ where i’m so bad at ‘second’ interactions. Like, meeting a girl who I previously kissed or something. Don’t know what it is but I struggle with the vibe and my verbals way more than on initial meets for some reason, so there’s a good chance i’d mess it up with her if I DID get to meet her again tbh

  62. Gamenoob

    Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in

    ” This is ridiculous shit! What does mental point of origin have to do with a newbie at Game asking a more experienced person about something. So the beginner who asks an advance tennis player for tips is not his own mental point of origin? Wtf? Shows you have misinterpreted what mental point of origin is.

    Secondly, you talk about after I get true wisdom I will not ask questions to others. And how do I get true wisdom? By posting on manosphere forums without doing anything and ranting about women and their natures??

    And with this shit about being oneself, you get even more ridiculous. It is laughable. So the guy who prepares for his job interview and presents himself in a better more persuasive manner is not being himself? He should not improve?

    Please do not get started with criticizing Game and PUA. And do not take extreme examples like Mystery and other people. There are far more guys who do not improve with women who kill themselves over women than PUAs having mental problems.

    Natural Game!! Ahh what a marketing strategy. You do not have to change, be yourself, express yourself and everything will happen. Take a newcomer into a boxing ring and tell him to just punch well and avoid getting hit. It is as simple, no techniques, no methods, no learning tools and you will get a “NATURAL” boxing champion. (rolls eyes).

    You won’t get wisdom posting on forum. Sorry, it’s true. You can learn some things if you are open to it, but wisdom is earned over time. Ime, it’s a very hard thing to transfer in general. People are resistant to believing/understanding that which they haven’t experienced over time.

    Being ” oneself ” is a great way to live, as long as you’ve bothered to build yourself . Being somebody else is counter productive long term. I’ve always been myself in job interviews, to use your example, but I always present myself in a persuasive manner because…wait for it…. that’s me being myself. No pretense. No worry. No anxiety. I can only be myself, and I did the ” work ” to hone myself into what I wanted to be early ( but you can do this at any time ).

    Boxing. There is such a thing as ” natural ability “, as in an ability to pick things up on a deeper level rapidly. Techniques are crucial while learning. Methods are required to gain understanding. Learning tools are just that, tools. You will never become a ” champion ” if you only rely on the fundamentals solely without a measure of creativity.

    https://media.punditarena.com/uploads/2014/05/Ali-vs-Liston.jpg

    think about it, if everybody learned specifics only and doggedly stuck to the fundamentals, there’d never be any progression or innovation, and we’d all still be riding horses and be worried about polio.

    And anyone can play that game of ” kill themselves “. Watch this : There are guys that improve themselves with women and kill themselves over women.

    Prove me wrong.

    Scoffs at mpo, then mentions men killing themselves over women.

    Nope, women should NEVER be a man’s FOCUS, and I do not give one shit about any ” system ” that teaches men looking for answers to concentrate on ” models ” or ” HB9’s ” or any of that dumb shit. Make yourself, then be yourself.

    100%.

  63. Gamenood

    …. I’m starting to like you though. You’re like a blank canvas somebody spilled some paint on.

  64. Palma

    Have fun man.

    I’m not a big porn guy, so what J posted didn’t stick to my neurons very long before being replaced by a chorus of cicadas in my backyard.

    I get why he posted it though, because he feels good.

    Lol, I don’t think I’ve had ” sex ” like that since the 70’s though.

  65. “and so I had to get out of bed, get dressed and walk to the pub at the end of my road for a double”

    Let’s fucking go palma 🔥🔥🔥

  66. @palmasailor
    My question was directed only at J or the few who actually talk about Game here. It was phrased in a very adult manner and he answered me.

    I did not intend to get into any discussion about ideologies and life priorites. It is the others who jumped in. I am just a guy looking for advice on Game and j has helped a lot on that. Culum also pitched in on that. I do not understand why you guys are even bothering to butt in. Feel free to ignore me and my “misdirected” efforts to learn Game as opposed to pursuing “higher” ideals in life.

    @Culum
    Thanks a lot. I have read Yareally’s material have the pdf as well. Just that I do daygame because I work at night. And he does not give direct advice about Daygame. SMMA which j put me on to is helping a lot.

    @Blaximus
    I have read many of your earlies comments as well when Yareally was on this forum. I respect your views, but do not agree with them. So please spare me.

  67. “My question was directed only at J or the few who actually talk about Game here.”

    Lol, J’s real handle is Dumpster. Finding women to bang is easy. Not being insecure isn’t.

    “Oh, I must be so awesome because a woman let me rawdoggg her…” Pedestalizing women you bang.

    “I gave a woman Chlamydia…” Wtf were you doing rawdogging a woman with Chlamydia? Don’t you value your d1ck at all????

  68. Culum

    I’ve been thinking about this since you wrote it.

    ” Especially for someone like me who specializes in overanalysis and “word salads” (you guys have been reading my FRs for years right?), but is now invested in full-time physical training and realizing that words are of limited use in describing the experiences I’m having and the skills I’m learning (the words just don’t convey enough information and can even actively confuse – I have to learn to “feel” something and then if I get the feeling – and therefore the associated skill – correct, I have to be able to “reach” that feeling again and then reach it consistently. But I can’t get to that point by listening to words and detailed instructions – they are useful to set the initial framework and the first steps – but to refine it and “get” the skill, it only comes by repetition, and then when something goes kind-of right, it “feels” different and then I try to recapture that feeling..and then it comes closer etc)

    This is a very new way of learning for me – with all the years of college and grad school and academics and a desk job behind me.

    But really, it’s the same in pickup and Game – what I’m really striving for is to reach that “feeling” – that feeling of kind of calm authority, of being centred and at peace with the girl (and indeed the men around too), reacting to me, of being the cause, and enjoying being authentically me in full flow. I’m even struggling to find the words to articulate it but you guys know what I mean – it happens in the best moments. And what if the best way to get there is explicitly to follow that “feeling” and try to optimize for that, instead of thinking so much about the A,B,C, steps to follow or the results I’m hoping for? What if optimizing for the “feeling” will automatically optimize for the right steps and the result (especially when one is no longer a beginner who needs to think consciously about what to say or what principle is applicable)?”

    I don’t know if what I’m gonna say is even pertinent, but I’m gonna tilt my head over the keyboard and empty my thoughts out of my ear.

    It goes back to the idea of Yin and Yang. It’s important to have a rational, reasonable,reality based understanding of life and things, but it is of equal importance to understand and develop feelings. One without the other is a state of imbalance, and in imbalance there can’t be lasting internal peace or confidence or freedom.

    If we can achieve those moments of ” feelings “, what is it that makes them more or less fleeting, causing us to strive to get them again? Why can’t we just ” teach ” ourselves to make those feeling more or less constant? Is it that we see feelings as something we shouldn’t stay in? Are we convinced that they must be fleeting, and we need to always stay in a rational and realistic mode of thought? Why don’t we trust that feelings, most importantly positive ones shouldn’t be more permanent?

    Okay, now for the ” me me me, I I I ” portion. Lol.

    Almost daily, I remind myself to monitor where my ” feelings ” are and why that’s so. A majority of the time I ” feel ” amazingly great, but this is also due to not seeing so much ” negativity ” in occurrences – and this is markedly different from being optimistic. I can’t fucking stand optimistic folks, lmao. On a scale of 1-10 I hardly ever fall below a ” 6 “, and my ” 6 ” is different than most people’s.

    Smal example that might make sense or not : Last week on my way home at midnight, on an insanely dark stretch of isolated but heavily travelled highway, I ran over a gigantic piece of truck tire that was in the middle of the highway. I was travelling at approximately 80+ mph when I struck it, and the noise was deafening as it ripped my front bumper loose on one side and shattered my driving light, and cause the inner fenderwell to fold itself around the right tire, smoking and screeching. I pulled off to the side of the road and retrieved my super duty – military- billion lumen flashlight, lol, and surveyed the damage. Quick calculation, 12-1500 bucks. I called the wife and told her I’d probably be late and not to wait up. When I told her whjat had happened, she was all ” OMG!!! OMG!!!! Are you alright???? Do you want me to come and get you??? “, and I told her ” Nah. I’m gonna chech the suspension and get back on the road if it’s all good. If not I’ll call AAA. “. She paused then said ” You’re mighty calm. You could’ve been hurt honey “, and I responded ” Lol, but I’m not hurt. My bumper sacrificed it’s life for me “.

    See, I see it as an inconvenience against a larger picture of 20+ years of driving that same highway without incident in all kinds of hurricanes and snow storms and whatnot. It really was funny that on a clear, calm, star filled night this shit happened. The past for me is always present, which is different from living in the past. If this makes sense? My coworkers always ask me ” what are you going to do if you have an accident at the speeds you drive ” and I tell them ” well, it’s going to look like a plane crash….and hopefully I won’t know what happened “.

    And I mean that shit.

    I’m comfortable with perceived consequences, crashes, tickets and stuff, and ” comfort ” is important because it’s a part of the Feel Good Matrix, which affects almost everything else.

    Good feelings are extendable beyond their perceived expiration date. They can become a part of your life experience, and they accentuate your outlook. A couple of days ago, I was on the same highway during the day, and it was raining like a motherfucker, so much so that traffic was pulling onto the shoulder because ” can’t see “. Then the wind picked up and the trees and shit started swaying like crazy, then after about 2-3 minutes, it stopped. When I got to work, my coworkers were frantic about a Tornado that touched down in Springfield, and I told them ” Yeah, I drove through it “. They were more freaked out than I was, and they were in a building 25 miles away, lol.

    Fear. It was mentioned a few comments back. Fear can be controlled, or at least jettisoned quickly when it does appear. My motto is ” fear no man “, and that goes double for women, lol. Look at it like this here: If you walk into a room that has a couple of kittens and puppies in it, you won’t have anxiousness or fear or uncomfortable feelings. Why isn’t that sense transferable? Really?

    Pua talks about getting in ” State “, and I agree that that’s a real thing 100%, but why not be in state 24/7? Why not make that a goal? Right now as I type this, I’m alone in my office at work ( watching servers in London and Singapore crash intermittently due to DNS attacks….fuckers ), and I have music blasting and I am ” in state “, but there’s not a soul around other than the guard.

    So maybe that’s a way to look at this: being in a constant state of in state .

    The whole women aspect is easier imo. Unless you’re around women that are serial killers, as the joker told Batman in the Dark Knight, ” they have nothing to do with all of their power “. Your comfort levels and confidence shouldn’t change relative to who’s around. It sounds counterproductive, but people, especially women, can usually be drawn to this. Sure, you can’t set your state at ” raving madman ” levels, but there’s a happy zone you should be able to maintain for yourself, and others will automatically perceive this ( disclaimer: unless they are distracted by electronic devices ). If you feel good and are comfortable in your own skin, you can say of do whatever you want to.

    And it will feel good. It’s a cycle. It makes being around people, particularly strangers, fun. ” State ” says ” we’re going to have a good time, or at a minimum, not a bad time “. This is true in social settings, at work, in the mall, at the club, or just walking down the street talking to strangers. It becomes first nature, and life becomes much less ” struggle “.

    Getting back to my destroyed bumper for a moment. The next morning I went outside and duct taped my bumper back in place, and pulled all of the rubber and destroyed fender well out. My wife was all ” I know you aren’t duct taping your bumper ” and I told her I’d have it replaced after vacation. I made a tribal-like design out of the duct tape, and damned if it doesn’t look like some kind of design decal or something. Lol. It’s kinda cool. My neighbor across the street came over and said he’d like something like that on his car, and I told him to go run over a truck tire at 80 mph and then come see me.

    I say shit like that all the time, and the words come out before I realize what I’m saying. I know common wisdom is to ” think before you speak “, and I was taught this as well, but the spontaneity is more Fun, and the more you do it, the better you become at it. When I’m talking to a girl ( or anyone ), I have no idea what I’m going to say, or what I’m going to say next, but what I do know is that it’s going to be fun or interesting because this feels good.

    I don’t know if any of this makes sense, or is in line with what you were talking about.

    But I’ve typed too much already and I’m going to call Singapore because I haven’t had a good old fashioned language barrier in a long time.

    1. @ Blaximus

      “It goes back to the idea of Yin and Yang. It’s important to have a rational, reasonable,reality based understanding of life and things, but it is of equal importance to understand and develop feelings. One without the other is a state of imbalance, and in imbalance there can’t be lasting internal peace or confidence or freedom.”

      Yin and Yang or as the old Japanese masters put it, ‘In-Yo’ – ‘Breathing in and out; Active and Passive’. This is the perception, wisdom and understanding of Zen – the way that the Warriors of old lived their lives. This is clearly you, Blax. And this is what I am aiming for.

      TantumErgo

  69. Yollo,

    “What is a man being led to willingly betray in your hypothetical scenario?”

    Anytime he fundamentally presents himself as someone he is not, “I’m a dynamic go getter, who owns a multi-hundred million dollar company” when he doesn’t. I’m not saying it’s wrong to lie to the girl per se I actually care little about the woman. I care about the damage it does to the guy because that type of misrepresentation will come back to haunt the guy in the long run sometimes spectacularly because it’s a tradeoff for only pleasure, in other words it’s a trade a woman would make. It’s a very bad habit to get into to make trades as a woman does it will infect others areas of your life.

    The below is not for you @Yollo as you are a longtime commenter but for guys like @Game:
    I am in complete agreement this PUA stuff works to get a Penis in a Vagina type Sex . I have some natural game due to high verbal ability and excellent psychological assessment skills. Before even talking I can calibrate to the frequency of the person accurately most of the time and steer the interaction so it goes smooth most of the time, this is a version of game but make no mistake this has taken me reading 100s of books about varied topics from most western countries, Russia, Argentina, Mexico, USA, UK , etc.. I’ve had teammates remark to me after hearing total strangers talk to me on a plane afterwards tell me that I was having the conversation of a lifetime with that person. I’ve been dirt poor, worked the dirt fields for .50 cents a bucket, worked in high end offices, have mixed/socialized with the dirt poor, to the middle class, to the upper middle classes. I know a rough history of most countries/races/peoples, have social and technological background, etc. To give an example, I went to pick up my daughter at her dance class, sat down on a bench to wait and a woman was seated next to me reading her kindle, I asked her what she was reading and she said a book about the missing daughter of the Russian royal family, her body language was closed and she was just complying at that point. I smiled and said interesting that was the Romanovs right(giving her a chance to say yes, even though I know it was right). She fully opened up and was all smiles and I suggested Anna K. by Tolstoy as an interesting novel to take a look at as you get a picture of the last days of the social environment around Russia during the last years of the Royal family. She in returned the nice surprise by remarking on it’s thick length which gave me a more favorable impression of her. That’s just me being myself no scripted routines …….

    Given this background I don’t have to pretend I am anyone but myself these days, I am fully competent in most areas of conversation and can therefore be fully playful because I don’t have to worry about memorizing routines or being exposed as some type of fraud. I even start playing with the words and my facial/body messages sometimes and having my verbal communication not match body language and vice versa and see people get confused and then I bring the conversation back to amuse myself. Also if I don’t know something or am wrong , I admit and move on. If someone doesn’t like me that’s fine, I let them be.

    Little of my knowledge has been learned inside a nightclub, the only time I ever ventured in them was to be with other friends/socialize not to actually pick up, not knocking nightclubs just saying there are more effective places to learn if learning about human nature is what you seek . As a man believe me all you guys are much much more interesting than the average girl, yes learn game but in the end if you find you have to compromise yourself it means back to work on yourself some more.

  70. @Sentient: about the pattern recognition thing… You don’t have to be a scientist to think scientifically. And you certainly don’t have to be an academic to do, nowadays with the current environment in Academia, being an academic may actually anti-correlate with scientific-thinking in some fields of research.
    @Rollo has excellent pattern recognition skills, and is clearly a scientist by any decent definition of the word (as @kfg might say).
    Much more so than many “professional” researchers in psychology that are academics

  71. @Blax: as far as I’m concerned, a bit of high frequency pounding Doggy style feels nice to me and 2/3 girls enjoy it a lot (LOL at my N=3 statistics).

    @Culum: thanks for the added insight. I mentioned before I’m very “buy and hold” so there we go. I probably won’t reinforce my poistions (or won’t very much) as I want to invest more in the “business” that Palma mentions.

    @J: obviously the pr0n was a bit of (not so) “humble”-bragging and you are getting rightfully blasted for it, although I don’t quite get the “AMOG” bit here about the longstroking (ahah big dick joke, well done @Blax) etc. Congrats on N=100 (that is one digit for each of my N=3). Jackhammering a girl from behind is quite fun for me personally and I do think most girls will enjoy it a lot.

    I have been wondering about getting a “spy cam”, not really for recording without consent (much better to have them perform for the camera knowingly) but as a bit of extra insurance against eventual False Rape Accusations. Can you comment a bit about your gear for me and anyone else wondering about this kind of setup?

  72. @Foxguy – girls aren’t my top priority anymore. They (or rather learning Game) was, for a long time – I made huge improvements over years doing that, but eventually I hit certain mindset limitations that are not learning more techniques. That’s why I am basically not Gaming this year (maybe do a bit on holiday or something) and I’m focussing on intense physical developments, which is offering surprising mindset benefits in itself.

    But that’s a good way to look at what I’m trying to do – to be free of fear, and external constraints.

    @Blax – lots of thoughts triggered by your post – will ponder a bit more on it.

    @Gamenoob92

    Okay, several points to address here. I’m in between your age and Blax, foxguy et al (actually I’m not sure how old foxguy is but you get the idea) so I think I can actually see both perspectives better.

    First, on “number of approaches” – you want to practice and do as much of whatever your current sticking point is. So yes, if you’re Bacchus or whoever, and you have your approach skills and AA nailed down, then you need to do very few approaches – you can relax and focus on girls you really like etc and your Game will be way better. But if you’re not there yet, and you need to improve your approaching, I would encourage you to do a LOT of opens, the more the better to get good at it first (unless you’re already comfortable with opening).

    Second – on the point foxguy made about “Natural game” and “PUA Game”. It’s not wrong exactly, it’s mostly right, the only thing I’ll add is that they are not two separate categories, they are points on a spectrum. You start with “PUA Game” (ie, someone else’s lines etc) because you simply don’t know any better and over time you evolve into understanding the underlying principles and incorporating your personality and making it authentic and “natural”. It’s not one or the other – it’s that PUA Game (done right! Some people never evolve) leads you into becoming Natural.

    Third, on the points Blax et al are making – I’ve told Blax this before (and YaReally et al before me), but I’ll repeat for your benefit.

    The kind of things Blax and Palma et al are telling you? They’re not wrong. They are right. They are bang on, absolutely 100% right.

    The mindset of a Natural like Blax is what you want – when you’ve internalized Game principles to the point where you simply “are” and you apply them as a core part of your personality. That’s what learning PUA Game eventually gets you to.

    ..But. If you’re a Natural like Blax or Palma, it’s very very difficult for them to relate to someone like you who didn’t learn and unconsciously internalize these principles at a young age. To them it looks like obsessing over ridiculous details (have you ever thought about how complex “walking” actually is? The level of balance and co-ordination needed to pull it off and why babies take a YEAR to learn it? But once you get it, you get it – if someone showed you a video on “how to walk” you’d be like “WTF? Just get up and walk – just do it”. That’s the kind of reaction someone like Blax has to PUA stuff – it’s hard for him to grasp how guys would find such basic step by step instructions useful or why they are needed).

    OR, it looks like obsessing over girls and giving them too much importance in your life (and they are RIGHT – but you need to be able to get girls and be happy with that aspect of your life before you can reach the same mental space as them and relegate girls to the right level of life priority). It’s kind of like how only rich people can afford to say “money’s not important”. It’s not important at all – if you have enough money that you don’t need to worry about finances. Same kind of thing.

    I get where you’re coming from. I was a virgin till 23/24 – I had to study PUA and learn it and practice to get good with women and now I’m starting to get some of the mindset concepts that Blax et al are talking about and the level of priority to be given to women etc (still in the early stages). But I would not have understood it till I went through the PUA process. @j is a lot younger but he also learnt PUA – he went from being “bad with women” to being “good with women” by consciously learning skills and practicing them. So did YaReally and Scray et al.

    So give Blax and Palma et al a break. They are already at the final destination you’re trying to reach and they know their stuff and they are trying to help you and you can learn a lot from their examples, even if they can’t relate well to the learning stage that you’re at.

  73. @palmasailor @Blaximus @ Culum @Foxguy

    Palmasailor and Blaximus, I understand you guys have lived different lives from my own and of people who are looking to improve with Game. Like Culum says if you were naturals, from when you were young, you do not understand where I am coming from. Yes, I know women and bedding them are not the key to happiness. I know people who have obsessed over it have regretted it later. And yes, I have read Roosh’s Game, actually read some parts over and over. He clearly mentions that Game is something he thinks everyone should have, to enjoy the company of women but obsessing over it and over notch counts is not healthy.

    But what I am trying to tell you is I am at the opposite end of the spectrum, a guy who grew up with no girls in his teenage years. Low confidence, low self esteem, meek and timid. Game has led me to the world of taking responsibility for your life and taking control of it. I am more social, more bold, not afraid to express my opinions and these things have helped me in University and also in getting jobs and meeting people. I do not intend to be a PUA or get 100 notches to brag about it. My goal is to go from being with whichever woman chooses me to choosing the woman I want.

    So me coming out here asking for some help with my approach to learning Game is not me “Obsessing over women”. Culum understands where I am coming from because he had a similar trajectory in life. I do not want to be using memorized openers 5 years down the lane, I am doing it now as I am a beginner.

    I never disagreed with what Blaximus or Palma is saying, if I had already been with a ton of girls or had girls blowing up my phone, I would probably say the same too. But for me, it is important now, because I am horny, young and attracted to women and do not get laid nearly as frequently as any healthy young man should. From the old comments I have read YaReally was just trying to do the same thing. Help guys like me reach a stage where girls are no longer a priority in life but many of the commenters here continuously criticized him and and he got fed up with it. What I don’t understand is people like foxguy who have not been in the same position as we are criticizing us for using tools to get good at Game.

  74. Yareally didn’t leave because he was criticized. He stepped too far out of what he knew and didn’t like what he was hearing.

    The blows came in pretty rapid succession. First, Rollo deleted so rsd videos because he didn’t want the guys that were sniping at him having a shitload of videos on his site.

    Then there were the ” marriage debates ” where he’d made disparaging comments about men’s wives, strictly to put on a show for ” the newbs “.

    Then the final straw was the ” having kids while avoiding courts and still gaming chicks ” fiasco.

    He wasn’t used to do many people disagreeing with him, and went into ” I’m tired of fighting ” mode and vanished.

    If you’re naive, you might think that the trm comments drove him completely from the internet.

  75. @PalmaSailor ”Yer you’re over cooking it on round one without closing it so they think it’s gonna be direct to the mattress the minute you meet them again.. so ASD kicks in turbonutter mode and she shuts up shop so you cant spike her again.”

    Yeah, I think there is definitely an element of that! Good point. I hadn’t really considered that a lot of it could be down to her and just decided it was that I’m bad at 2nd meets (which I am, but that helps me understand one possible element of it)

    I get this quite a lot as I often find myself bumping into girls that I’ve either banged before or just kissed on a random night out once (and wasn’t able to close for different reasons)

    Then, i’ll meet them and I feel a bit like i’m lost in regards to how to lead it. Everything feels off. From a technical point of view, I think I find myself running out of things to say more because we’ve covered lots of ground on the 1st time I met her usually. Colds reads now seem more unnatrual! Even sexualising it and flirting feels more difficult. I can never find the appropriate ‘vibe’ if that makes sense. Could also be in part due a reliance on personalise ‘canned’ game that I use in initial approaches and I kind of feel out of ammo after the first interaction!

    This isn’t a super consistent problem (and I have banged girls who I only managed to kiss the week before) but i’m still aware of it’s existence.

    edit: Just seen your latest post on this; Yeah, these aren’t actually dates. (In fact i’ve basically never had a date) although I imagine the situation would definitely be the same so the points stand!

    I think there’s a chance i’ll still meet the girl in the pic at some point (bit like how I almost met her this weekend) and I really wanna close her as she’s very much my type.

    Yeah Czech will be fun – Can’t really afford it but at least the beers will be cheap!!

  76. Oh, I’m definitely going! It’s all booked and sorted. Packing later on when I get home from loading lorries!! 🙂
    Luckily lots of my friends are loaded, so i’ll be OK if they decide to do any expensive things during the trip! haha

  77. @Blaximus Palmasailor

    The fact that his archive and book are still always referred to shows he knew what he was talking about when it came to Game.

  78. @Game

    Stick around, something about the style/structure of your writings leads me to believe you may have a shot at having a decent head on your shoulders. Stick around, explore girls all you want, lot of hustlers in the red pill mostly all hustle with the exception of Rollo, Ryan, and Carl these days so keep your eyes/mind sharp.

    Guy don’t step on the lot unless he wants to buy.

  79. @Culum

    Even opening – the times I completely nailed opening were when I focussed on repetition – like during HABD’s 400 Open challenge and a few other smaller scale versions in clubs (and I remember HABD kept asking if I’d reached “the feeling” yet – the feeling of it all becoming routine and a bit boring to go and open another girl, ho-hum – which I did, right at the end of the challenge, but I’ve struggled to recapture that feeling consistently – which is actually very similar to my physical training – first I can’t do something at all. Then I kind of fluke into it, then I target that feeling and it starts to happen more often..).

    Same thing with my escalation/closing and my online dates becoming boring – first it happened, then it happened occasionally, then it happened regularly. But with my opening I hit the “first it happened” stage, but never did the Second 400 Challenge like HABD suggested to “lock” it into consistency and reach “regularity”

    ya, that was a delayed opportunity…lol… but you will still get there… just gotta put in the work/effort…

    and it’s not outside the ability of any man to master… i still stand by my assertion that 95%+ of all men can be in the top 10% of alpha studs… but they have to be willing to put in the work…

    i think you can appreciate this now, but what you are looking for is a baseline level of comfort with cold approach/opening girls so that you can focus on the actual process… that comfort/ho hum feeling will allow you to start to spot the micro-expressions/ping windows that are ALWAYS there…

    it’s like all the training someone has to put in to getting to be a black belt in a martial art… that’s really just the first step to mastery… once you can punch/block/etc without thinking about doing it correctly, THEN you can start being creative and actually SEEING what it is you are dealing with…

    same with girls… bc game is just the martial art of intersexual dynamics…lol… but not kidding…

    good luck!

    1. @HABD

      “same with girls… bc game is just the martial art of intersexual dynamics…lol… but not kidding…”

      So … proficiency in one area (Martial Arts) ought to convey some transferable skills into the other (‘the Venusian Arts’ – as MM puts it).

      Needing to make the transition.

      TantumErgo

  80. @Culum Struan

    I hear you brother, you are on the path.

    If you haven’t already you may need a transition/forging challenge in your life that will prove to yourself that you fully belong in man land, unfortunately this can’t be gained via women. Something like go into the woods for a week or so with minimal provisions and survive off the land, go to an agricultural field and work for a month with migrant workers doing backbreaking manual jobs, it has to be physical and it has to push you to your breaking point. The purpose of this is two fold it will show you that you are indeed fully physically worthy and two it will reduce your anxiety towards money/financial area. Lots more other benefits but you will have to find them for yourself.

    Whatever it is don’t go paying thousands of dollars for it or any money for it really, heck if you do the picking crops in a field you will get paid.

  81. Gamenoob

    See, this is what’s so frustrating.

    Nobody ever said YareAlly didn’t know what he was talking about wrt pua.

    Over years he was pressed for more details about his experiences, and the closest I recall was him saying 1) he was in a relationship that didn’t work out – ” relationship ” defined as sitting on couch watching Netflix in worn out underwear, 2) he believed everyone kids to him growing up. That’s pretty much it. But outside of pua, he didn’t seen to know very much else, or have decent experiences – this came through in his own words if you could read them without being in complete and of his singular skill.

    Which a lot of people just overlooked.

    Don’t misunderstand me, I had respect for the skillset he had, and I wish he didn’t leave because I enjoyed interacting with him, but those things didn’t blind me to who he was in life because pua makes for a poor substitute for life, and I think it’s an awful message to tell young men that they don’t have to try to position themselves to succeed in life. You don’t have all the time in the world, but he didn’t grasp that.

  82. @Palma Culum Blaximus Foxguy

    Okay. Let me give you my perspective and what has happened to me in my life. Before discovering pickup/Game I thought I was a shy person, introverted and not really social. That was the story I had told myself all my life. After I discovered Game they said you have to become social and a good conversationalist to get girls. Pussy was the motivator so I forced myself to socialize, and after a few months I discovered I love to socialize and that I am not really shy, now it is something that brings me joy even if I am not looking to bang anyone. I have a bigger circle of friends both men and women. I leave a better impression on people. Someone recently told me I wish I was as extroverted as you. He thinks I have been like this all my life. But I know the truth. Game lead to this.

    I never lifted weights in my life, just played soccer and swam. In my head that was who I was. I could not be a muscular guy. But PUA said get muscular you will get better results, so I hit the gym, Pussy again was the motivating factor but three months in I saw my chest and biceps grow looked at myself in the mirror and went “Wow”! Now, I know I will never quit lifting. I absolutely love it and want to do it well into my old age. PUA advice said get into Improv/theatre, you will improve your comic timing, make women laugh, went ahead and tried it. I never thought I was the kind of guy who could perform on stage. But three months ago, I played a part in a play in front of an audience.

    I moved to Europe, I can get by with English in the city I live in. But I knew if I learnt the local language, I would impress girls and also have a wider pool of girls to approach and communicate with. So I started learning the local language.

    I had applied for a part time job recently, lacked the technical skills necessary, there were other people who had applied with far superior skills. In my pre-Game days, I would have never applied to this, as I would have thought I stood no chance. PUA said become outcome dependent when you approach women, get reference experiences. Applying the same formula to this, I said I will give it a shot. I got the job and the interview panel spent 15 minutes talking about my hobbies as they found it intriguing that I had such diversified interests and that I was learning and knew the local language to a certain extent.

    In all these endeavours women were the trigger that pushed me into them, but I have reaped enormous benefits that have nothing to do with women. Whoever I am today is so much due to Game and PUA. So I do not get it when people here only point out examples of a few people who were negatively affected by PUA. It has had a tremendous positive impact on my life overall and that is why I do not like it when people denigrate and ridicule Game/PUA. PUA has evolved as well, to include so many positive things from what it was when it started.

    And Palma in the scenario you described above I would go try salsa for a few classes regardless of whether I get women or not just because it will be another thing I would have done in life and if I don’t like it I will drop it.

  83. @ Palmasailor
    @Sentient

    “Tantum and I are going to hit town more and put it through the paces by the numbers.

    Our logistics don’t mesh so that’s a pain in the arse but I need the disciple of being reported back on to you mugs.
    Need to be able to show my face without hanging my head in shame”

    Looking forward to it, Palma – and you know that I have absolutely NO fear of falling flat on my arse – that’s my only saving grace at the moment. 😉 As for ‘hanging your head in shame’ – not at all; I am bound to be ahead of you in this line – Ha! Ha!

    But the main thing for me, is I can ONLY get better.

    TantumErgo

  84. @Tantum Ergo – thanks!

    On 20s girls flaking – especially (but not only) because you met them online – it’s normal. Don’t think of it as a mistake you did. You can only risk-mitigate (stuff like never booking anything more than 1 day in advance, and ideally the same day..always having a backup plan etc). I seem to say this in every post, but YaReally had a lot of stuff on text game and mitigating flaking both – worth reading.

    @Palma – no, the martial arts analogy works for pickup. It’s not sticking a picture of Bruce Lee on your face and pretending to be Bruce Lee – it’s copying Bruce Lee’s punches (badly), and then working your way up to copying them well, and then eventually working your way up to punching really well in a style that may be based on Bruce Lee’s punching but is adapted to your personality and body type etc.

    @Blax – I totally agree that YaReally was (while spot on about PUA) wrong about stuff he had no experience of (marriage etc). That’s why the Great Marriage Debate was the one time I ended a debate thinking he was wrong (I was on his side in the Great Looks Debate). But I don’t think it’s accurate to say he had no other interests or life outside pickup – he just didn’t talk about them. In fact he explicitly said several times that he had a life and interests about pickup and just didn’t talk about it here because there were other avenues for that.

    @foxguy – thank you! Funny you talk about the importance of pushing myself to my limits physically to grow. I completely agree and in fact that is what I have dedicated this year to doing. Here’s an extract from my post to Sentient a few months ago describing the start of my year pushing myself – it sounds a lot like what you’re talking about and the results have been dramatic so far, both physically and mentally (and it’s influencing my Game and pickup skills too as seen in my posts from the last couple of days – and I did NOT expect that).

    “In the early stages of my year abroad doing full-time intense physical training in [activity] and getting hammered both physically and mentally by the coaches and training. Wanted to do it for a long time, but actually in it now. One of the hardest things I’ve ever done (certainly physically the hardest for someone whose entire life has been sedentary and staring at a screen till the age of 40, but also mentally).

    Very rewarding though. Getting towards the end of the initial conditioning phase now – still wiped out at the end of every day but no longer physically shaking with exhaustion and right on the edge of being physically unable to walk ten minutes home like I was in the first couple of weeks. Now it’s moving more into the mental pressure and skill development (while maintaining the physical pressure). I’m basically in pain all the time from each day’s injuries. But a lot of old problems are sorting themselves out in ways that I did not expect and my fitness is improving rapidly (for example it’s doing wonders for my posture and the way I hold myself).

    You can probably guess the category of activity relatively easily, but I doubt you’ll guess the specific activity/training program. It’s very obscure, unless you’re familiar with the relevant subculture in which case it is famous and you get a lot of street cred within the subculture if you can say you survived and completed the training program I’m doing – the drop out rate, even for the self-selected group that travels across the world to do it, is over 50%, a combination of injury and inability to handle the intensity and physical and mental pressure.”

    Incidentally, that particular train of thought you described – it’s very similar to an episode Michael Crichton (creator of ER and Jurassic Park etc) wrote about in his autobiography – after climbing Mt Kilimanjaro and pushing himself to his limits, he was forced to revise his self-identity and accept that he was in fact physically tough and mentally tough contrary to what he’d been telling himself since he was a kid..

    @HABD – thanks man! Yes, exactly – that martial arts analogy is something I’ve been thinking about for a while now and it is spot on. I don’t think I understood the process and the result the way I do now though. Speeding it up and applying the physical element has made a huge difference. LOL@”Game is the Martial Art of intersexual dynamics”.

    @IAS – I can’t help you with the technicalities of having a hidden cam in your bedroom or whatever but just a reminder to check the laws in your country about recording when only one person knows about the recording – you don’t want to fall foul of illegal recording or revenge porn laws etc. Having said that – if you get sent up on an FRA, you’d rather use the video to get out a rape charge and risk a rap on the knuckles for illegal recording – the trade off is worth it. Just keep in mind a recording isn’t a magic pill proving your innocence – if there is an FRA, you will still get arrested and dragged through hell even if the video ultimately exonerates you (and sometimes they may take you to trial anyway and make up a story about how the video doesn’t tell the full story). It’s certainly better to have the option of the video than to not have it, but the only true “magic pill” is being alpha enough that the girl is left with positive memories of your time together that she cherishes, and not the regret that leads to FRAs…and there are no shortcuts to that.

    @Blax – I still need to read your post on feelings and “being in state all the time” a couple more times to fully absorb it, because it triggers lots more thoughts (in particular – it’s a great thing to aspire to – but what is the process to get there?). But the first thing that struck me when I read it is how much it sounds like YaReally. In fact there’s a series of posts where YaReally talks about exactly this topic and how society trains men to be miserable all the time and think that you need some kind of external validation or cause to be happy, but there’s actually no reason why your baseline should not be happy/content all the time (with fluctuations around that of course), and how YaReally had trained himself which is why he was generally a very happy guy. There was more to it, but that was the core. It’s virtually identical to what you posted. I think you and YaReally had a lot more in common than you might think – you’re a Natural and he certainly was not, but you guys certainly reached some similar mental places and attitudes through different paths.

    1. @Culum Struan

      “On 20s girls flaking – especially (but not only) because you met them online – it’s normal. Don’t think of it as a mistake you did. You can only risk-mitigate (stuff like never booking anything more than 1 day in advance, and ideally the same day..always having a backup plan etc). I seem to say this in every post, but YaReally had a lot of stuff on text game and mitigating flaking both – worth reading.”

      I think that you have already steered me in the direction of YaReally’s text game, and that you sent me a link, which I will dig out.

      Tantum

  85. Seduction is defined in the Cambridge English Dictionary, as the act of persuading someone to have sex with you. I am a Pickup artist. And so, when I go about this timeless art of persuading someone to have sex with you, there are a list of dos and do nots I engage in.

    I do NOT lie to women, that I’m interested in seducing, that I will become their boyfriend, if they’d sleep with me first. I do NOT promise them a starring role in my upcoming film or tempt her with a job promotion, if she’ll get down on her knees and suck my dick. Or that I’ll pay her large sums of money. Or even offer her illegal drugs, because I don’t have the ability to get what I want from them without resorting to trading something other than sex for sex.

    No. What I offer women is simple: pleasure. We, PUAs, are sex providers. And game is our vehicle we use to communicate that offer to them.

    I’m interested in you. So if you come with me tonight, this is what I’ll give you. I can’t promise that this relationship between us will develop into something beyond orgasms and laughs between the sheets, so I ask that you please be wise as to not fall in love with me too quickly. That’s all that I ask. Oh yeah. and don’t be cunt.

    But. I look around this room today, and I can see that there are many beautiful women out here tonight. So if you’re not interested in what I have to offer, please let me know so that we don’t waste each others time. So what’ll it be?

    Every word that comes out of your mouth.

    From the jokes you make.
    The frames and reframes you set.
    The specific stories you choose to tell her…

    And every nonverbal gesture you make….

    from the way you look at her…
    to the way you touch her…..
    and the way you move…

    Should ultimately comes from that frame.

    Because the only true liars, frauds, and fakes. Are those who fail to deliver in the offer they promised.

  86. @Palmasailor

    I get you …

    “Yes, but I’m martial arts you become that man. You are capable of delivering those moves.”

    Yes, you do, and yes I am – through years of training, developing technique and overcoming the fear of being hit – which is always an occupational hazard of training which reduces over time and with practice at the threshold of one’s capability.

    “It’s not a life size photo of Bruce Lee stuck on to Harry Hills body that you are using to fool your opposition.”

    Indeed – and no-one will buy it. Women can smell a fake in the same way that a shark can smell blood in the water. 🙂

    So, my challenge is to take what I already know and am comfortable with (Martial Arts), where I am “that man”, and adapt, learn and transpose this feeling in my dealings with women. And you know well that I need the practice.

    TantumErgo

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