Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

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@Sentient “S:Hey I’m going to X in a bit. Come join”. I don’t know about going straight for the invite with the first text….You have no idea what mood she’s in, what she’s currently doing, how far away she is…. Spike her BT => ask for compliance is the winning formula. Also First thing I always text girls after getting their number, is my name. No, “hey its J it was cool meeting you today :)” like chody PUAs do. Just my name. Avoids this: “DT: [like 10 seconds later] Who is this????” “You don’t remember my name… Not sure… Read more »

IRL
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@Sentient

Not much time to respond properly, so just this:

https://krauserpua.com/2011/01/24/warming-up-a-cold-lead-button-nose/

Pay attention to: 1) him being flirty/challenging (sharp and unapologetic but not too obnoxious), 2) him avoiding social landmines/negative associations, 3) her circumstances changing (right window).

E.g. he gives her a puzzling and emotionally ambiguous ping text (note other girls who did NOT respond to the same line). This let’s him play with hers “who is this” a bit differently.

Your reference to the client was risky. Remeber, any thoughts of her work (or other unpleasant chaos in her life) = bad emotions inertia.

Youngmaster
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@Eh: How so? If you care you can read this https://voat.co/v/whatever/3212784 You do have a choice to be better, Youngmaster. Animals don’t…Civilization and monogamy are natural for humans as we can conceive them so for good reason. No. That is not what natural and unnatural means. You don’t get to choose what’s natural. For the vast majority of our species’ existence, the top males reproduced and the lower ones didn’t (estimated at least half of all males who ever lived never passed on their genes in the homo sapiens species). Part of the reason so many women get wet about… Read more »

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Well, the Voat article comment isn’t arguing against civilizations choosing free will. EhIntellect can speak for himself, but what I interpret him saying is that evo-bio arguments aren’t the be all and end all for some of us. Some of us buy into the choice for behavior that is in our best interest. “Our” being some of us that are married, have kids and are fucking our wives regularly. And the wives aren’t always complaining, even if they insist on drama, indignation and protest and testing, testing, testing on the regular. The Voat comment talks about evolved learned behavior of… Read more »

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“We as a society could collectively enforce a tradition, passed down for a thousand years, to smear shit all over our skin.” SJF explained it well. Two questions for you: Is there a thousand year old shit smearing tradition I hadn’t heard about? I don’t read everything. And…. How’s their indoor plumbing? Morality is a choice. Choosing it or not it will affect your lifespan. Youngmaster: Why do you want to get laid anyways? Why should YOU get laid and why should that matter to any of us here? What’s so important about it that you want to debate simple… Read more »

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I wrote this to you btw… just recently about Blaximus: “See, Youngmaster? Men who hold on to insult real as (it) may be IRT, have really nothing to gripe about after the fact unless they assume a victim’s lament which no one respects. No amount of explaining prideful self-destructive tendencies will shake them from that buffer.” You doom yourself reinventing a personal shit-smearing wheel to masochistically sit in you own proverbial not-laid shit stasis. You naturally prefer not to sit in it as incelibacy is naturally quite uncomfortable, that’s why you are here and asking good questions, but to change… Read more »

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Women / risk / reward / and pricing of risk Interesting – I’ve decided to go back into a trading business and I’ve just had lunch with a proposed female (partner). I’ve known her 5-8 years and we’ve never fucked (I never fuck any women I work with) though we have had loads of brilliant lunches and have transacted deals in the high hundreds of thousands of ££. My businesses over the years have always been with female partners (they own 25% so I have the final call but they have enough equity that they are aligned and all money… Read more »

Youngmaster
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@EH: Morality is a choice. Choosing it or not it will affect your lifespan. It is mostly not a choice. Your morality is dictated by the society in which you were raised. If you were raised in a society that instills guilt in you for stealing, or shames you for being selfish, you are far less likely to do those things, and in order to do those things you need to actively choose to violate that morality, upon which you will very likely feel guilt and/or shame. You can already see this at work with the feminist imperative and how… Read more »

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Palmasailor Women / risk / reward / and pricing of risk Very entertaining comment, thanks in advance. […] My businesses over the years have always been with female partners (they own 25% so I have the final call but they have enough equity that they are aligned and all money comes out is via equity so theres no tossing it off), “Skin in the game”, check. […] <iLet’s get it right, the women in my business life NEVER take a risk, but just by virtue of the fact they are going into business they THINK they are taking a risk.… Read more »

Sentient
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Palma

father and son then?

She did however want a reference from the previous two women I have built businesses with and paid out – so sisterhood Uber Alles perhaps?

Pre-selection is THE attraction trigger… Saves any thinking.

I miss Mayfair, some of the best bars around. Though they seem intent on “updating” most of them…

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@Anonymous Reader Ok so don’t mix up a stake holding in a limited liability SPV to risk. I GIVE them their 25% I put in all the ££ AKA taking the risk. Ok they definitely get a colossal “emotional rollercoaster” even though I’d never thought of it that way. They get risk against money that wasn’t theirs / they haven’t got yet and they get 5 star excitement while we talk about it. And yes it’s beta buxy etc in that context.. Ok the side letter is official ie drawn up by the lawyers but doesn’t equate to actual exercise-able… Read more »

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@Anonymous Reader “Dalrock once mentioned in an essay that women want roller coasters that just pop up out of the ground” Frequently in my last business things cropped up – both of my previous partners were 8-9’s and could stop a room if dressed for war. I often used this commercially. There were several times that I got in the car (with no prior notice) with one of them at 4pm to attend a last minute meeting / interview where we were recruiting an asset over dinner / buying a business and We ended up staying overnight somewhere. Despite one… Read more »

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@Sentient

“father and son then?”

Not sure I get your point – in unfortunate news my son isn’t speaking to me at the moment..

I made the mistake of hitting the court system and found myself in front of two female judges.

EhIntellect
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Youngmaster, Hey hell are you masochistic. Look man, if you’re so cynical that no one SHOULD give a damn about you. and your health, sexually and otherwise, it says waaaay more why you are not getting laid and in a tight spot financially…much more than some stupid natural-unnatual definition sharpshooting. Hey, check this out: You’re dining with the Queen of Denmark and there’s a salad in front of you. Do you use the salad fork or the spoon? You have a choice and why is you feeling guilty or pressured about using the salad fork an unnatural construct foisted on… Read more »

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@Sentient “I miss Mayfair, some of the best bars around. Though they seem intent on “updating” most of them…” Interesting that the emotional roller coaster that we’re discussing here doesn’t need to be that expensive. The perception is that it is and so some are intimidated by the very up market bars, but if you don’t go nuts it’s ok on the price front. Fascinating people watching I don’t live there but sometimes I go in at the weekend and hit a few bars / upmarket hotel bar game is good if you avoid the prostitutes. Nailed more than one… Read more »

EhIntellect
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Btw Youngmaster, intellect is only so good as it gets you from a > b.

What’s your excuse? Some nefarious FI? Feminism? Oh please say it is,

That’ll get you laid fo’ sure!!

Sentient
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J Some good points. This is going as expected though. Some of my thinking… Upthread I said: “I know she has a crazy schedule and kids, so I expect the invite to run into logistics problems, at least the first time for sure. Any “what are you doing” filter will probably have some kind of excuse off the bat…” Partly horses for courses… So I’m fairly sure at nearly any given time this stuff “You have no idea what mood she’s in, what she’s currently doing, how far away she is….” any text can be met with “I’m going to,… Read more »

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Palma

“father and son then?”

Not sure I get your point –

Just a joke… Lost in translation…

in unfortunate news my son isn’t speaking to me at the moment..

Sorry to hear that. He will come around eventually…

You ever been to Bob Bob Ricard in SOHO? always wanted to go there. Looks great.

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Palma…… “Move in on the mother who just loves you = get the daughter..” Here, Youngmaster! See that!!! FFS, there’s an universal existential understanding that all mothers with daughters on the cusp of the wall…they understand the animalistic attraction of some dashing rake like Palma and its effectiveness on the mom’s future progeny. Now, how does Palma address the situ? He wins the mom and the girl is his with the FI’s blessing. No dragging her to the cave needed. Are you still feeling pressured bending to the unnatural (your idea) cultural norms yet and still prefer arguing why you… Read more »

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Pre-emptively here: as a side note, I’d like to know how old you guys are, how long you’ve been running game, what you’re currently applying game to (LTR, non exclusive plate spinning, etc.), when the last time you’ve nightgamed or daygamed, etc. Just to get a feel for the experience of the people here. @Eh sounds like I really pressed your buttons or something. Like every statement I make is upsetting you and you just need to respond to it, on top of the fact you keep comprehending things incorrectly. Look man, if you’re so cynical that no one SHOULD… Read more »

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@Sentient Getting into Bob Bob Ricard could be done but I’d have to pull strings and make a few calls…. The sort of place you do once / or you’re a rich Russian and do it every night. – At that level it’s a lot more money than fun – I learned that at Heston Blumenthals place – “the fat duck” which I managed to get into when it first opened but it now takes 3 months. As an interesting side note I was once in Aqua bar in Regent Street with Anastasia Plate when she returned from the ladies… Read more »

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Palmasailor So she gets a call option on the stock. She stays at her day job until the gig gets going and then she can call it in. Like a secret lottery ticket…girls love to play “I have a secret”, right? No risk Even then she’s worried about the risk lol.. Heh. She’s a woman. Of course she’s worried about the “risk”. I didn’t regard the reference thing as preselection in those terms but perhaps it was. Sentient agrees, btw. I haven’t looked at one of the business websites where I sold out my part to the last woman I… Read more »

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“Let’s be more specific: no one on this site should give a damn about me in that they are not obligated to do so nor is there any real reason to do so. They might very well actually care, and that’s great, but under no circumstances should I care about you or vice versa. That won’t stop either of us from having benevolent impressions from positive interactions between us. You’re twisting shit up too much. One of the best things I’ve noticed is that on TRM and in The Red Man Group is that there are independent thinkers that have… Read more »

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@SJF: there’s a sticking point here with the word “should,” I think that’s the problem. There’s a subtle difference between the way I’m using it and I think the way you and Eh are taking it to mean. No one on the site should give a damn about you? Wtf? Why not? I’m words on a screen no one knows anything about, no one is morally obligated to care and there’s no imperative to do so. Definition: “Used as an auxiliary verb, to express a conditional or contingent act or state, or as a supposition of an actual fact; also,… Read more »

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@Anonymous Reader Various ramblings over coffee before I do something useful.. On the pre selection thing, yesterday girl knew one of the other women existed because she was visible on the company records that were submitted for trade account opening / credit etc.. In case you haven’t joined the dots I have been a customer of yesterday girl one way or another for years. She’s highly competent – has got what I need and it’s always been fun. Last year we flew down to a sun drenched island in the med for lunch and she flew back that night. Practically… Read more »

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@Eh

“FFS, there’s an universal existential understanding that all mothers with daughters on the cusp of the wall…they understand the animalistic attraction of some dashing rake like Palma and its effectiveness on the mom’s future progeny.”

That’s very interesting actually. The mother was “happily married” and slightly older than me and the daughter was early 30’s – so 20 years younger but now you say it she was dodging the wall.

Had quite a lot of fun with the daughter for a short time.

IAS
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Strategy advice: Later tonight there is a sports session after which I can “instadate” a social circle girl, YT, to a different venue, where there will be music and so on (like from 22:30 to 0:00 or such). I’ve seeded this with her already. Tomorrow afternoon there will also be a sports session after which I am like 15 min away from my place (for a change!) so logistics will be good to pull her (assuming YT shows up which is likely) or another target to my place if I play right (not sure who will show up but odds… Read more »

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IAS You stud. Work that harem Hoss. Save the sexual Kino for the sex location. Keep it to holding her hand, a squeeze here or there, just enough to break social convention and get her used to your touch. Comfort Kino. Same with the kiss. If you do find yourself compelled just a short one. No tongue… Comfort kiss. Your logistics are solid. Get a bottle of wine in your place and say something like “I have a nice bottle of wine I’m told. I don’t drink, come tell me if it is any good and we can go to… Read more »

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@IAS

You’re at the point where you just have to bloody do it.

Get in the saddle and go for it – no more mental hamstering.

Unfortunately I have 6 girls in my air bnb tonight that want to see the nightlife.. shucks 🙄

j
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@IAS

Close YT tonight
Close PG tommorow

Juan Antonio style

IRL
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@Sentient Good to see you man. How is the plan going? Ha, as expected lol: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/590f4fa0893fc0f07b736886/t/598afdac15d5db14ee47a5d2/ It was good to have your and Palma’s advice at hand at various points. Together with TRP, it helped me stay the course. I’d say I tested (and confirmed) it all… I still need to deal with too many moving parts, sub-optimal logistics and I took some additional hits overall, but I’m pretty good and in a good mental place. No regrets and it definitely sharpened my mind. Field is king, learn by doing, act to learn and all that. Initially, my confidence took… Read more »

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@IAS How did it go? I’m not sure what is the best game here, other than being more ruthless than I’ve been. Ok I’ll let you in on a secret: nobody’s ever 100% sure of the best move and/or outcome. You “just bloody do it” (to quote a poet). Some more details: Keep your eye on the ball: 1) What is it that you want? 2) What could be the shortest path to get it? Everything else is manstering… Don’t get stuck between phantom scenarios in your head, just go for it. @Sentient Go for what you want, not what… Read more »

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@IRL: great to read you in the comments again. Disappointing. Only got a bit of blue balls unfortunately. Yesterday with YT: as I mentioned, I had seeded the venue change with YT. End of session, we get offered a ride close to her place (but it is in the same direction as the venue change). I pull her aside while the guy unparks the car and say “let’s go there”. So we get the ride close to her place say goodbye to the two dudes. Get to the other venue and kind of crash the place jumping over a gate… Read more »

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IAS heh… enjoy all that beautiful beautiful data… Couple things… we get offered a ride I know you are super cheap… but I’d avoid this in the future. It didn’t hurt here but could have been a massive self induced cockblock… Keep the chessboard in mind at all times. all going great. What was the vibe like? I can’t tell but it seems like you thought there was more attraction carrying over from prior episode. Keep in mind that little attraction carries over, so you need to restart till you are sure you are getting attraction. it’s easy to think… Read more »

j
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“I’m going for the kiss and she goes “you may have noticed, I don’t like to be touched”

I bet she didn’t like it when you slapped her ass the other day either wink

But like what we’re you guys talking about before hand? Any sexual topics? You know there’s a thing called verbal escalation, right? Did her face give you the “look” like she wanted to be kissed?

“From what I can figure it out she does genuinely have some kind of issue with physical contact”

yeah. most girls who aren’t turned on, generally do…

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@IAS I haven’t read all of this yet, but my gut when I skip read it yesterday was “I’d have avoided taking the ride” and “not enough A” throughout the whole scenario. I was also worried about you smacking her arse without it being as part of an escalation where you were receiving IOI’s. Recently on a night out I smacked an arse and gave her the “knicker tug” when I pulled back from a kiss she wanted by joking with her to slow down.. however we had full body contact at the time and our mouths were inches away..… Read more »

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Thanks for the feedback everyone. I know A doesn’t carry over entirely. I spiked the conversation with some sexual topics, I passed her through some compliance hoops with getting her up and dancing and such, lots of eye contact, and when we were in the isolation she kept the hand on mine and we were touching sides and she wasn’t moving away, etc. I’m not that good at calibration but she was laying down and we were looking at each other when talking, so I thought she was ready to be kissed at that stage so I did the torso… Read more »

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Interesting few days that key into a few things here including ExCartoonists risks Thursday night was an after work group social event. Four to five “guys” and three to four women sat at a sort of group table outside a pub in town. I sit on the end with my beer and know a couple of them. Woman turns up very well dressed / articulate intelligent and sits next to me – small talk then she gets up to go to the bar and asks if I’d like a drink. I politely decline. Marginal Would bang to be honest but… Read more »

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“Thanks for the feedback everyone. I know A doesn’t carry over entirely. I spiked the conversation with some sexual topics, I passed her through some compliance hoops with getting her up and dancing and such, lots of eye contact, and when we were in the isolation she kept the hand on mine and we were touching sides and she wasn’t moving away, etc. “ Ok this is more imformation. “I’m not that good at calibration but she was laying down and we were looking at each other when talking, so I thought she was ready to be kissed at that… Read more »

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“This type is over represented in mid life “dating” and it’s getting worse.”

For your sunday amusement – the crazy and the medication alerts lit up on most of these.

I pulled them in chronological order, I didn’t just go looking for the mad ones.

You OMG’s – just look what you’re missing.. lol

https://imgur.com/a/9qah6B3

Culum Struan
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Ah, Palma..in the World Is A Small Place category…I have met the first woman on your list. She was visiting New York for work at the same time I was, at least a decade ago, and we had some common friends and went for drinks in a big group. I still remember chatting to her for a while because the combination of her jobs is so unusual and I remember thinking she was cute and funny and way cooler than my then girlfriend (of course this was in my deeply BP days so I would have had no clue what… Read more »

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@IAS “I know about “what they do not what they say” but what boils down to “don’t touch me” is quite the shutdown.” Well done as regards all you did up until this point. However, your calibration is a little off, but you can fix this with more experience and experimentation to fill in the holes in your social understanding framework. In your context, “don’t touch me” was a test and an invitation to tease her, even if she didn’t consciously understand that herself. Keep focusing on improving and learning calibration and you’ll keep improving your game. So you don’t… Read more »

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Palma Funny stuff with the whiskers… “Given the further information (perhaps I didn’t read the previous fully) this was a shit test.” Yeah, you can tell because back in the original FR, AFTER her pullback she was OK with his teasing touch. Standard IOD on his escalation… So pullback and DHV until IOI and restart. The pullback is key, how it’s done. Zero butthurt and the less you acknowledge it the better. Just totally ignore as if it never happened is best I find. If you have to say something Mystery’s old line still works “You looked like you wanted… Read more »

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Culum

That’s crazy but yeah some world’s are very small.

Would bang if slim…

Lots of the mid 30s girls at the conferences I go to are like this.

Would be crazy if we did meet…

IRL

Good to here you are still grinding. The best thing about being an entrepreneur (a term a never use) is being able to answer that one call, make that one connection, get that one deal that changes everything.

Sentient
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Palma

Every one on that list is lonely and scared.

IRL
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@IAS Sounds like “I don’t like to be touched” was a sign you weren’t enough of a bad boy. Boils down to entitlement. She sensed it, hence the shit test = resolves it one way or another. Slapping the ass is a bold move. Were you up to the expectations though? Like, sexual topics is one thing, but being challenging and handful (even if only with words) is another. They all want to deal with an uncontrolled force of nature just waiting under the surface. No harm no foul broski, it was great regardless. You had an opportunity to gather… Read more »

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@Sentient
an entrepreneur (a term a never use)

Ah yeah that was in the above graph I find accurate regardless (nb. @IAS it will feel the same on your journey with girls etc., ups and downs)

Interesting enough, ‘entrepreneur’ is popular mainly among people who can’t reach a sustainable hook point with the market to make money (so they need to keep pitching to VCs) or who get stuck self-employed (and then of course by others wanting to sell them something)… I don’t blame you for distancing yourself lol

http://wealthmissionpossible.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cashflow-quadrant.jpg

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@IRL/Sentient

I’ve never referred to myself as an entrepreneur.

@Sentient

Yup – all lonely and scared plus a lot more things.. too scared to come out from behind the computer screen in a lot of cases, that and the screen has a curious slimming and de ageing effect that I can’t understand at all!

According to the gulag about 25% of women have a diagnosable mental illness and I’d just love to know how this breaks down by age and specifically single / divorced women over 40 with and without children…

Where’s SJF when you need him.?

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@Palma @Sentient It’s the lack of leadership (a few years after all the “I don’t need a man”, “I’m a strong independent woman”, “I’ll do what I want”). The other day someone forwarded this to me (and that’s not even from a dating site): I feel like I’m going through a bit of a quarter life crisis and honestly I feel really upset. I don’t really know what my personal goals are, and I turn the big 30 next January and don’t feel like I’ve accomplished much. I don’t know if I want kids one day. I don’t know what… Read more »

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“Quarter life Crisis” … At 30. Lolz

Good luck on hitting 120.

IAS
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@IRL: About the hugs with YT, they weren’t reserved but they weren’t the blatant boob pressing kind (those boob pressing ones I had today from yet another target, GG, want to see if I can pull her on Wednesday despite crap logistics). The funny thing with YT hugs was the first time I walked her home (so not this more recent outing where I didn’t escort her all the way home), she gave me a hug on one side and then I was detaching and she almost falls forward as she was going to hug me on the other side,… Read more »

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IAS

Not this is rejection…

https://twitter.com/betmybookie/status/1130175474737524736

Sentient
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Now not “not”

TantumErgo
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‘I can’t do this anymore …’ (she said) @RolloTomassi and others: I would be grateful for the wisdom of wiser (if not older) heads than mine about the ending of my current relationship. :: Me :: I am a 54-year-old, university-educated divorced man (divorce was seven years ago) with one adult son. I exercise regularly and do what I can to improve my mind in terms of reading and learning. I have had several casual encounters and one very short-term relationship prior the most recent, which has ended after 15 months at her behest. :: Summary Background :: I became… Read more »

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@Sentient

“Not this is rejection”

Boys got solid frame. She hasn’t and is seeking value by trying to bust his,

He’s having none of it

Lol

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@Tantum Ergo

Loads to unpack there and it’s 22:58 here so I’ll do it mañana over covefee

Don’t make any sudden moves..

TantumErgo
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@palmsailor
Many thanks for the quick response; I await your thoughts…
TantumErgo

IRL
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@TantumErgo Good to have you here looking for answers. Know it’s where sugar coating ends and you may not like what you’ll see. Grab each comment as an opportunity to break free of your current limiting beliefs. Start here: I think that I lost frame somewhere along the way, although I don’t know exactly where. When was it in your frame exactly? You seem to have reacted every time she’s reached out to you. You’ve tolerated each misbehavior and she knows you have no boundaries she can’t cross. You’ve got tooled. Rebuild your frame first. Until then no love for… Read more »

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@IRL I realise that that there is no sugar coating to be had here, and I have come in search of answers. I take your point about tolerating Babushka’s misbehaviours and failing to set boundaries. And no, cuckolding is not my thing — I had that in my marriage and certainly don’t want any more of it from now on. As to when, if ever, I hade any frame with her, then it was right at the start, when I told her to hit it or quit it. But, from what you are saying, I never did. So, as a… Read more »

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@TantumErgo “(1) Is this relationship well and truly done (as I suspect it is), or if not: (a) Is it worth another shot; and if so (b) what is the best way to go about it?” Ask yourself: what do YOU want. Do you wanna girl that will fuck you and only you? Ok. Then this girl ain’t the one ™ bro. She’s ain’t that type of girl. (Dont, “well maybe not, but I’ll make her into that type of girl!!!” Nah. Find a girl who already wants what you want. It’s called vetting. And from what you’ve just written,… Read more »

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@PalmaSailor I love your devotion, man. “You OMG’s – just look what you’re missing.. lol” I’ve never figured my self missing a god damned thing. But that’s just me in my unicornlandia thing. My buddies keep me honest. As I should be and as they should do. I have not comment about those girls. Except good luck with that. “I’ve never referred to myself as an entrepreneur. You gotta be fucking shitting me. I read your book. If you are not an economic/money grubbing entrepreneur you are most certainly a red pill sexual entrepreneur. And I say that int complimentary… Read more »

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@j Many thanks for your thoughts and comments: https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-118/#comment-274270 (1) As to what i want I initially just wanted to fuck Babushka, but then I fell in love with her — and it had certainly hadn’t been my intention to do so. But I agree, she certainly isn’t LOTR / ‘marriage’ material, and she is more than BPD, and there have been more than enough red flags. A recent one was when she almost smashed a musical instrument she is learning to play in a fit of frustration. When I playfully suggested that wasn’t a good idea, she snarled at… Read more »

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Palmasailor
According to the gulag about 25% of women have a diagnosable mental illness and I’d just love to know how this breaks down by age and specifically single / divorced women over 40 with and without children…

If I remember correctly, 25% of women over 40 are on antidepressants…for a start.

Now, if we count “box wine” as a drug…

PS All those girls in your list are 30 to 40 something and some are obviously high strung. When they get close to menopause it’ll be a real treat!

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@Culum “She would kill to date me” Yep – BUT – I defy you to create an online profile and opener that will get a reply from her… @Sentient “I also have no doubt that Palma does alot more Kino that he isn’t thinking about at all… Just flows and doesn’t register to him. “ Not much registers at all to be honest, I’m on autopilot almost constantly, if you had to sum up my default position towards women it would be “take the piss out of them”. I suppose if you count things like dipping my finger in their… Read more »

kfg
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“A recent one was when she almost smashed a musical instrument she is learning to play in a fit of frustration. When I playfully suggested that wasn’t a good idea, she snarled at me: ‘I do what I want!’”

Ghost.

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@kfg

Ha! Ha! 🤣

‘Ghost’ — Simply and wonderfully put!

Thank you.

The near-instrument-smashing episode was followed by the ‘I can’t do this anymore’ rant only two days later.

But, clearly I missed a trick and should have ended it then and there, if not much sooner…

TantumErgo

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@TantumErgo

I concur with KFG, your best option is ghosting. Note you haven’t convinced me that she is BPD, but if ghosting her does not prove to work, and abandonment issues show up…. run. Life is too short to throw away on someone like this.

You want someone who is a force multiplier in your life

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@Centuries

Many thanks for your advice — there is a majority opinion forming that I should cut my losses, build some frame — and run if need be. 😊

For my benefit, I am curious to know what you consider to be typically symptomatic of BPD.

I have some difficulty with this as, coming from a Mediterranean background (Anglo-Saxon father / Latin mother) violent mood swings and emotional outbursts are fairly typical of the womenfolk in my family. 😁

TantumErgo

kfg
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” . . . violent mood swings and emotional outbursts are fairly typical of the womenfolk in my family.”

And the comfortable familiarity that this has engendered in you serves their interests, not yours.

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@kfg

Lightbulb moment!

Thank you.

TantumErgo

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@Tatum “Emotionally-affected Personality Disorder” That’s a cute euphemism for BPD. And no, BPD isn’t BiPolar. The former is a personality disorder that doesn’t go away and is barely manage-able. It is only tolerable, if tolerated. And the latter is a psychological disease/brain disorder. Did you ever hear of google searching: “how to spot borderline personality disorder”? https://www.psycom.net/depression.central.borderline.html Symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder Borderline personality disorder symptoms vary from person to person and women are more likely to have this disorder than men. Common symptoms of the disorder include the following: Having an unstable or dysfunctional self-image or a distorted sense… Read more »

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TantumErgo “Although I had resolved to make a clean break with Babushka, I still feel that it is not yet over between us (although I am probably deluding myself here). I took some advice from a friend who is a professional psychologist, and described Babushkha’s personality traits to him. His take was that he thought she might be suffering from Emotionally-affected Personality Disorder (EAPD), which is rooted in childhood where a child is over-indulged by their parents to the extent that they do not learn to control their emotions. This manifests itself in adulthood whereby someone suffering from EAPD has… Read more »

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TantumErgo I have some difficulty with this as, coming from a Mediterranean background (Anglo-Saxon father / Latin mother) violent mood swings and emotional outbursts are fairly typical of the womenfolk in my family. Have you watched The Sopranos? “On the plus side, this is the f i r s t break-up I have experienced (despite my years!) where I have not experienced any rancour, bitterness, jealousy, rage, self-loathing, or desire for revenge — so some kudos to me!” Have you ever been the one breaking up or always the one been broken up with? [Always amazed so many guys have… Read more »

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@sjf Thank you for the steer regarding BPD and Bi-Polar: https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-118/#comment-274264 I have now read the link to the symptoms of BPD, by way of a little homework, and your extract to it: https://www.psycom.net/depression.central.borderline.html What WAS I thinking! That’s right, I wasn’t — and my take-away is that ignorance can never be bliss in this matters. I get the distinction between being Bi-Polar and having BPD — and I do think that Babushka checks-off against many of the symptoms described, as far as I managed to observe during the 15 months that I was with her, and also if what… Read more »

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@Sentient

Yes, I have watched the Sopranos — a great show — and I could stand to do a little yelling from time to time. 😀

As for breaking up with women: a little of both, but mostly I have been the one being broken-up with.

So, going forward: lines in the sand, non-negotiable red flags and clear ultimata such as ‘do that, and I am gone’?

TantumErgo

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@Sentient

Many thanks for this — and yes, I do know that it’s time to move on, and I also understand that this will build frame, which I am in need of.

But it is useful to get the feedback, perspectives and takes from this RM forum, for my understanding and learning.

TantumErgo

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Tantum: A red pill manosphere content provider Shawn T. Smith has an excellent book on vetting women for LTR’s. Get it and read it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0990686442 For men, love is a high-stakes gamble. The right woman can be the best part of a man’s life, and the wrong one can lead to personal and financial ruin. In today’s climate, no man should venture into romance without a reliable risk-management strategy. The Tactical Guide to Women delivers a solid plan for allowing the right women into your life, and keeping the wrong ones at a safe distance. You’ll discover how to: Identify… Read more »

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@palmasailor

Any takes on my ‘Babushka’ disaster, that haven’t already been covered — on the basis that you have managed to think it over while having a coffee?

NB: I haven’t done anything rash or in a hurry, as suggested:

https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-118/#comment-274266

TantumErgo

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@SJF

“Usually at the 9 month interval.”

Wow. That was Anastasia’s lifespan between bouts of lunacy.

I thought she was HPD.

Since me she has married again – which lasted 9 months, then she came back for sex.

After that her new boyfriend lasted 9 months, then again she came back for sex.

I have a diarisation and it pinged last week – she’s got another 9 month interval so is due to surface again right about now.

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@palmasailor

Any takes on my ‘Babushka’ disaster, that haven’t already been covered — on the basis that you have managed to think it over while having a coffee?

Why do you call it a disaster? It’s the past. Water under the bridge. And the sex was good. Move on.

Two words is all it takes.

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“I thought she was HPD.”

Isn’t that a distinction without a difference?

“…then again she came back for sex.”

I’m a firm believer (and so was YaReally) that it can be a good thing as a single man without committment to tryst with BPD chicks.

At the very least it will keep you on your toes. And there is good sex. Just keep Frame and Exit at the appropriate time. She will let you know when. Trust your gut.

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@Tatum

If you had thoroughly digested TRP and were totally dark triad (I don’t know how close I am to this) you could contain her for sex.

BUT – you haven’t and you’re not so she will hoover your soul and leave you for dead before you can make the personal growth required. Anastasia sent me to the red pill and I have been surviving abusive women from the age of 6.

The others are right, you should ghost and go game a few new ones.

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Agreed.

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@SJF
A ‘disaster’ (overstatement) because I was played, and I didn’t think that I would be, and I also fell in love with her without applying any reason.

Lesson to learn, and time to move on, as you say.

TantumErgo

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@palmsailor

Many thanks… I share a kindred spirit with regard to surviving abusive women from childhood… and there is definitely something about that name. 😊

Onwards I go.

TantumErgo

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TantumErgo

“So, going forward: lines in the sand, non-negotiable red flags and clear ultimata such as ‘do that, and I am gone’?”

This is how you establish the edges of a “frame”…

Have you read Rollo’s Iron Rules?

https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/

“Iron Rule of Tomassi #1

Frame is everything. Always be aware of the subconscious balance of whose frame in which you are operating. Always control the Frame, but resist giving the impression that you are. “

No Frame / No Game

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@SJF

Thank you for the link to the Shawn T Smith book — it seems like a nugget of gold, and the next step in my education.

TantumErgo

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Tantum, the first rule of Game is to know thyself. Why are you interested in a girl? Is it because you are being controlled by an addiction? Is it a crush or some other chemical dependency? Because, if it is, you can be manipulated easily by the girl and you won’t be dominant and attractive and you probably won’t act in your own best interest and like you would if you were a man free from addictive compulsion.

Get free from addiction and avoid any girl who gives you “feel good” feelings. Been there.

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@theasdgamer All good points and food for thought. I can certainly identify with the ‘feel goods’ factor — and the fact that I really enjoy sex, and the chase-down to get it. But if this is proves to be a compulsion, and I will need to reflect on whether it is, then, certainly it could be a dangerous one. Of more concern, is whether I have a need for validation, and that I erroneously believe that this can be achieved by either sexual gratification and / or a woman’s adoration. So, I need to examine my motivations in my previous… Read more »

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@ Sentient

Thanks again.

Yes, I am aware of, and have read, Rollo’s Iron Rules — but need to re-read them and internalise them, so they become a sort of Mantra, and then apply them.

TantumErgo

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@TantumErgo As to when, if ever, I hade any frame with her, then it was right at the start, when I told her to hit it or quit it. = negotiating desire… @Rollo has a couple of posts on that…lol But, from what you are saying, I never did. it doesn’t seem like you did, no…. So, as a practical question: how do I go about re-building frame? And is it just too late to do so with her? theoretically, not too late… but for all practical purposes (given your game knowledge and current level of ability to execute same)…… Read more »

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It’s a shame Rollo. But I get it.

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@Rollo

“If you wanna know who to blame go find Scrib”

Yeh. I think we got that.

Did he actually report you?

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@Rollo Gentlemen, I’m going to be closing all comments on TRM posts except this one in the coming week. I’m sick of the recent bullshit, but this thread will remain open. i’m sorry to hear that… sooo, just on the off chance that you might get de-platformed, is there any way to get a copy of the website archive that is up to date?… and would you care if i did that?… assuming i can figure out how to…lol… i would hate to lose the commenters combined contributions to the effort… and up til now, i’ve never doubted that you… Read more »

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@having a bad day These are all good points, cogently and delicately put — which I appreciate: https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-118/#comment-274362 I get your argument about my having tried to negotiate desire in contravention of the Iron Rule that ‘desire is not negotiable’ — “… hit it or quit it”. You have made me think about that attempting to lay down some rules — “lines in the sand … clear ultimata …”, etc, is merely to cave into the FI, and, on reflection, it seems that I am suffering from a misguided belief in scarcity, which probably stems from childhood. Issues to deal… Read more »

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Tantum “You have made me think about that attempting to lay down some rules — “lines in the sand … clear ultimata …”, etc, is merely to cave into the FI, and, on reflection, it seems that I am suffering from a misguided belief in scarcity, which probably stems from childhood. Issues to deal with, and self-acceptance is undoubtedly the key. Read this: https://therationalmale.com/2012/05/07/ultimatum/ Ultimatums are declarations of powerlessness because you are resorting to a direct threat to get someone to do what you want them to, and in doing so you OVERTLY confess your weak position. If you were… Read more »

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Gentlemen Thank you all for your insights and helpful advice regarding my break-up with Babushka. My summary take on your collective thoughts is: (1) Ghost her, build frame and move on to game new girls (this will build frame); (2) Trying to win her back is theoretically possible, but given my current lack of understanding and grasp of the theory and practice of game, this would amount to waste of time and could therefore either backfire or have more damaging consequences; (3) ‘Desire is non-negotiable’: any form of supplication to a woman is an instant turn-off, switches off her erotic… Read more »

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