Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

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Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

GTK

Why no comments/discussion on J’s field report ?

Proceeds to make comment…

is all of that quoting mystery

FR section is also a repository for game stuff… take of it what you will…

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

DT Girl update So I knew this wasn’t good game going into it, bit I was wrestling with reaching out via phone and not wanting to do it. So I went round the shop, I walk by her she is in her car on an animated call. Mutual waves. I go in the shop and take a seat in the corner. After 5 or so minutes I see her put of the car waljing back and forth in front of the shop. I don’t pay any attention to her outside. She comes in another five minutes later, says hello and… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Palma

On the Kino. It’s interesting she doesn’t object but isn’t reciprocating. Which I’ve had before. Sometimes they are just more in a submissive state until isolation.

I think her dipping to the counter was a negative obvi… Trying to work in the chase me frame. And that’s what I set up by going there to start with…

It’s OK. Like I said game on now. We will see. I expect a few texts are going to go nowhere before anything else happens.

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

“I’ve tried it with women that are genuinely exhausted before and it’s been a waste of time.”

Back when you were married/

badoom bish!

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
1 year ago

Sentient – why go ahead with DT girl at all in this situation? She lives there and so do you. So once you saw logistics bad and she’d been up all night etc why even take the shot? Better to withdraw and leave her wanting more of you, no? Also this cat and mouse with DT girl has been going on for a while – at what point does your window of opportunity for escalation shut with her? What is it HABD says? Something along the lines of how in each interaction you have to escalate a little bit more… Read more »

Youngmaster
Youngmaster
1 year ago

I’ve come across several contradictions or conflicts while digging into the techniques of game. There were two of them, I know, but right now I can only remember one, and it isn’t a problem for me to deal with but I still want to point it out anyway. Mystery himself says you should be smiling plenty. Don’t overdo it, but don’t be some serious tough guy either. Heartiste has recounted multiple stories of alpha males who smiled and/or complimented exceedingly rarely and mentions it’s something that should be done sparingly. I understand the appeal of each direction, and this isn’t… Read more »

Youngmaster
Youngmaster
1 year ago

Oh right, so the second one was “energy levels.” This is something that might be an issue for me, but I guess it would depend on the situation. I’m a naturally reserved, down to earth guy. Most of the alpha body language behaviors come to me naturally, including a lot of the attitudes; however, Mystery says you want to be higher energy than the set. Animated guys usually strike me as tryhards or nervous betas vying for approval, and my style is to usually stand there (which they say you should do, stand still) and I speak in calm, even… Read more »

j
j
1 year ago

@youngmaster

“I could much more easily emulate one of those guys than try to pull off a Russel Brand kind of casual, carefree jester”.

Ctrl + F, “4 types of game”

https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/why-yareally-need-to-learn-game/

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Youngmaster I hope you don’t get detoured journaling all the different types of game, absent actually trying things in the field. You are going to miss a lot. On smiling… His main advice was to smile on the OPEN – and following the 3 second rule to get there. A cold approach OPEN. Remember Mystery was ALSO doing things that offset the smile as well. He didn’t say just be a Labrador puppy… So enter the set with a smile WHILE also body rocking, not giving her full body language, negging, false time constraint, etc. All these things are softened… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Culum why go ahead with DT girl at all in this situation? She lives there and so do you. So once you saw logistics bad and she’d been up all night etc why even take the shot? Better to withdraw and leave her wanting more of you, no? Yeah, I was trying to withdraw by getting up and leaving first. I figured she would follow me out though. Also this cat and mouse with DT girl has been going on for a while – at what point does your window of opportunity for escalation shut with her? What is it… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
1 year ago

@Sentient DT Girl update So I knew this wasn’t good game going into it, bit I was wrestling with reaching out via phone and not wanting to do it. how were you going to ‘reach out’?… you not wanting to do that was probably a good instinct…lol… if it was going to be in a beta orbiter way…lol… i think your only option is to do the lunch invite thing randomly… and that should filter for her logistics situ… otherwise, you’ll just have to ‘run into her’ at the coffee shop and take your chances on the logistics situ… So… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
1 year ago

@Culum

PS – I haven’t checked the FR section in a while but I could have sworn we were over 120 pages – what happened??

it was… i think @Rollo reset the font type in FR section, but i don’t know for sure…

good luck!

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

HABD Thanks for the feedback… did you listen to the call?… was the call REALLY important?… or just a page from her rolodex/flashcard pile?… Was another caretaker coming on, shit about the patient, where his sweater was, his condition, etc. logistics uber alles!!! Yeah this is going to be a problem, now there is that housesitter over there. Maybe in a month when they move out before she moves in… Otherwise… car I guess… Not optimal. Let’s listen to something in the car I guess.. her hindbrain/hamster knew the logistics were f*ked too…lol… could you have (in a socially congruent… Read more »

j
j
1 year ago

@Sentient “‘insisted’ on that house tour?… i think not… and that would have put you ‘chasing’/begging… sooo, overall good outcome… Chasing/begging is interesting – the line between “pushing/leading” and chasing/begging… rules?” what @HABD is saying here is that, if you had tried going for the ‘house tour’ pull again, the odds in this particular situation are that she would most likely have to turn you down again. Due to: fucked up logistics and her not being ‘turned on’ enough for her to want to do a quickie. so in her mind, that’d be TWICE she’s rejected your offer. Giving her… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
1 year ago

@Rollo

i seem to have lost a comment…which had ONE link to a youtube video… given the recent censorship issues, i thought i should let you know… in case youtube is starting to ban links to TRM… or something…

good luck!

j
j
1 year ago

@Sentient “On this ” i think your only option is to do the lunch invite thing randomly… and that should filter for her logistics situ… “ I know she has a crazy schedule and kids, so I expect the invite to run into logistics problems, at least the first time for sure. Any “what are you doing” filter will probably have some kind of excuse off the bat…” Alright if you really want to bang this particular chick….the move I see here is…. Text her, what she’s up to about 1 to 2 hours before the time you saw her… Read more »

Youngmaster
Youngmaster
1 year ago

I came across a comment from Heartiste’s blog by a user there in 2010, and it resonated with me so I wanted to share it (in context of the article being about how running game can wreck your romanticism or your ability to really love; this was on April 1st though, so no one can be sure as to the genuine seriousness of the article): Having fun in the “game” is like betting on roulette. You can bet outside (red or black) and make small profits more often, or you can bet inside (individual numbers) and make large profits less… Read more »

SJF
SJF
1 year ago

@Youngmaster “…and it resonated with me so I wanted to share it (in context of the article being about how running game can wreck your romanticism or your ability to really love…..” You forgot to tell us what you think about in your feelings, goals and objectives in your inter-sexual relationship goals. What is your bias? How do you want to approach game? Oh, and did you watch that latest talk/interview between Nick Krauser and Rollo? (I’m not advocating for something here in general. But it might help to have a back and forth with Youngmaster for his sake…) Loading...

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Youngmaster

That’s not what direct and indirect mean.

Youngmaster
Youngmaster
1 year ago

Sentient: I know. You’re gonna need to take it up with the original commenter from 9 years back though. Improper terminology aside you can tell what he’s referring to and it fits nicely with the general vs. specific gambling. SJF: what are your feelings, goals, objectives? Rollo strongly suggests to everyone to spin plates, which I’ve never done. So that’s the goal. I’ve had oneitis before, and I even knew that I had it at the time, which seemed to make the situation even worse because I felt I was forced to deliberately play cat and mouse with that girl.… Read more »

SJF
SJF
1 year ago

So, YoungMaster, I’m trying to get into your heart as to what you want as a young masculine male in a time in your life that you make your ascent. “It’s cathartic to see that so many of my instincts and behaviors are grounded in what an alpha male should be doing (like my almost utter inability to ever compliment an attractive girl), but as Krauser himself said: no matter how many options that Camero has on it, if it’s got no engine, it’s not going anywhere.” Yes it is cathartic. But you don’t need so much catharsis You need… Read more »

Youngmaster
Youngmaster
1 year ago

Thanks. I haven’t taken the test, no, but I think it was you before you mentioned Krauser and the INTJ personality type. I talked to my brother about game over the past weekend and he actually brought up the personality type; I have no opinion on Myers-Briggs, but according to my brother who DID take the test, he’s an INTJ, and we’re both very similar to each other and to Krauser. And yes, we can be judgmental, and also overly analytical to the point of near autistic. We aren’t fumbling idiots most of the time like actual spergs and autists,… Read more »

Youngmaster
Youngmaster
1 year ago

Now here’s a contradiction I just found: CH in 2011 says “if you’re stuck for words, just say something; weak game is better than no game.” Then in another post almost exactly a year later, CH says “if you can’t think of something to say, say nothing at all; she will restart the conversation and begin chasing.” This was explicitly mentioned somewhere else as something NOT to do; girls want to listen to exciting anecdotes, having to lead the conversations themselves are generally even keeled, monotonous, and not super dull but not exciting either. It’s white bread conversation. You could… Read more »

SJF
SJF
1 year ago

And yes, we can be judgmental, and also overly analytical to the point of near autistic. We aren’t fumbling idiots most of the time like actual spergs and autists, we can often navigate social waters without much trouble, but those near-obsessive, overly-computery-thinking kind of thoughts still occur all the time, we can simply conceal them well enough. And then there’s the question of whether we want to navigate such social waters, but yadda yadda, don’t want to get too bogged down into introspection. That’s one of the achilles’ heels of the INTJ imo, too stuck in our own heads. Now… Read more »

j
j
1 year ago

@youngmaster “Now here’s a contradiction I just found” that’s not a contradiction, rookie. In the first quote, CH was specifically talking about opening girls. That pretty girl you caught sneaking a glance at you for a brief second. Don’t, “damn she’s so hot I don’t know what to say” or second guess yourself like, “eh, she probably thought I was somebody else. Just an honest mistake.” “eh, she looks busy”. Just go over with one of your canned openers (opener you’ve used before that has gotten you good reactions in the past) and deliver it. Once you’ve become comfortable doing… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Youngmaster

Concur with J’s breakdown of the two CH posts.

You will ignore this BUT – you really need to just get going with what you know now and TRY IT and THEN look for explanations. It will be MUCH easier to grasp when you are getting real time feedback from interactions.

Actions rule and FIELD IS KING.
comment image

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

The Text S:Hey I’m going to X in a bit. Come join. DT: [like 10 seconds later] Who is this???? S:[ed. I’ve never given my name as I recall so expected something like this] You don’t remember my name… Not sure how to take this smh S:[coffee cup emoji] DT:[10 minutes later] Sorry I’m moving today and packing for my trip [ed. she’s going away for a few weeks w fam in a few days] S: Alwayds so much work… sound slike your client is better. [ed. with typos. her main client from the hospital situ. I realize after sending… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

That JP vid… Should point out that’s a Day2 or Tinder date… some interesting bits there, kino, disqualifying, leading. But Day2 or Tinder.

Youngmaster
Youngmaster
1 year ago

SJF: And what’s with this about your brother and Game? I talked to him about it over the weekend when we went out to get some things for Mother’s Day. He got married to a girl last October, they’ve been together for a decade now at minimum. They started their relationship when he was 18-19 or something and they basically never looked back. His wife is a rare breed, very down to earth, can appreciate edgy humor, practically never gets offended, has no problem calling things how they are, even though she’s shy. Anyway, I told him about game because… Read more »

EhIntellect
1 year ago

@ Youngmaster “the perspective on civilization and psychology were fascinating to me (about how civilization is unnatural and so is monogamy)” How so? Civilization and monogamy are not natural for animals as they breed under different conditions than humans. Evo-bio isn’t the whole story. It’s a failure of RP to avoid the freewill discussion. I understand guys like ScribblerG and j get defensive about what they are doing IRT to their consequence, as such their self-determined odd definitions of success are constantly hoisted up for celebration. The manosphere, including TRM, is the judgy-est No-Judgement-Zone online: “We’re free thinkers and all… Read more »

j
j
1 year ago

@Sentient “S:Hey I’m going to X in a bit. Come join”. I don’t know about going straight for the invite with the first text….You have no idea what mood she’s in, what she’s currently doing, how far away she is…. Spike her BT => ask for compliance is the winning formula. Also First thing I always text girls after getting their number, is my name. No, “hey its J it was cool meeting you today :)” like chody PUAs do. Just my name. Avoids this: “DT: [like 10 seconds later] Who is this????” “You don’t remember my name… Not sure… Read more »

IRL
IRL
1 year ago

@Sentient

Not much time to respond properly, so just this:

https://krauserpua.com/2011/01/24/warming-up-a-cold-lead-button-nose/

Pay attention to: 1) him being flirty/challenging (sharp and unapologetic but not too obnoxious), 2) him avoiding social landmines/negative associations, 3) her circumstances changing (right window).

E.g. he gives her a puzzling and emotionally ambiguous ping text (note other girls who did NOT respond to the same line). This let’s him play with hers “who is this” a bit differently.

Your reference to the client was risky. Remeber, any thoughts of her work (or other unpleasant chaos in her life) = bad emotions inertia.

Youngmaster
Youngmaster
1 year ago

@Eh: How so? If you care you can read this https://voat.co/v/whatever/3212784 You do have a choice to be better, Youngmaster. Animals don’t…Civilization and monogamy are natural for humans as we can conceive them so for good reason. No. That is not what natural and unnatural means. You don’t get to choose what’s natural. For the vast majority of our species’ existence, the top males reproduced and the lower ones didn’t (estimated at least half of all males who ever lived never passed on their genes in the homo sapiens species). Part of the reason so many women get wet about… Read more »

SJF
SJF
1 year ago

Well, the Voat article comment isn’t arguing against civilizations choosing free will. EhIntellect can speak for himself, but what I interpret him saying is that evo-bio arguments aren’t the be all and end all for some of us. Some of us buy into the choice for behavior that is in our best interest. “Our” being some of us that are married, have kids and are fucking our wives regularly. And the wives aren’t always complaining, even if they insist on drama, indignation and protest and testing, testing, testing on the regular. The Voat comment talks about evolved learned behavior of… Read more »

EhIntellect
1 year ago

“We as a society could collectively enforce a tradition, passed down for a thousand years, to smear shit all over our skin.” SJF explained it well. Two questions for you: Is there a thousand year old shit smearing tradition I hadn’t heard about? I don’t read everything. And…. How’s their indoor plumbing? Morality is a choice. Choosing it or not it will affect your lifespan. Youngmaster: Why do you want to get laid anyways? Why should YOU get laid and why should that matter to any of us here? What’s so important about it that you want to debate simple… Read more »

EhIntellect
1 year ago

I wrote this to you btw… just recently about Blaximus: “See, Youngmaster? Men who hold on to insult real as (it) may be IRT, have really nothing to gripe about after the fact unless they assume a victim’s lament which no one respects. No amount of explaining prideful self-destructive tendencies will shake them from that buffer.” You doom yourself reinventing a personal shit-smearing wheel to masochistically sit in you own proverbial not-laid shit stasis. You naturally prefer not to sit in it as incelibacy is naturally quite uncomfortable, that’s why you are here and asking good questions, but to change… Read more »

Youngmaster
Youngmaster
1 year ago

@EH: Morality is a choice. Choosing it or not it will affect your lifespan. It is mostly not a choice. Your morality is dictated by the society in which you were raised. If you were raised in a society that instills guilt in you for stealing, or shames you for being selfish, you are far less likely to do those things, and in order to do those things you need to actively choose to violate that morality, upon which you will very likely feel guilt and/or shame. You can already see this at work with the feminist imperative and how… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
1 year ago

Palmasailor Women / risk / reward / and pricing of risk Very entertaining comment, thanks in advance. […] My businesses over the years have always been with female partners (they own 25% so I have the final call but they have enough equity that they are aligned and all money comes out is via equity so theres no tossing it off), “Skin in the game”, check. […] <iLet’s get it right, the women in my business life NEVER take a risk, but just by virtue of the fact they are going into business they THINK they are taking a risk.… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Palma

father and son then?

She did however want a reference from the previous two women I have built businesses with and paid out – so sisterhood Uber Alles perhaps?

Pre-selection is THE attraction trigger… Saves any thinking.

I miss Mayfair, some of the best bars around. Though they seem intent on “updating” most of them…

EhIntellect
1 year ago

Youngmaster, Hey hell are you masochistic. Look man, if you’re so cynical that no one SHOULD give a damn about you. and your health, sexually and otherwise, it says waaaay more why you are not getting laid and in a tight spot financially…much more than some stupid natural-unnatual definition sharpshooting. Hey, check this out: You’re dining with the Queen of Denmark and there’s a salad in front of you. Do you use the salad fork or the spoon? You have a choice and why is you feeling guilty or pressured about using the salad fork an unnatural construct foisted on… Read more »

EhIntellect
1 year ago

Btw Youngmaster, intellect is only so good as it gets you from a > b.

What’s your excuse? Some nefarious FI? Feminism? Oh please say it is,

That’ll get you laid fo’ sure!!

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

J Some good points. This is going as expected though. Some of my thinking… Upthread I said: “I know she has a crazy schedule and kids, so I expect the invite to run into logistics problems, at least the first time for sure. Any “what are you doing” filter will probably have some kind of excuse off the bat…” Partly horses for courses… So I’m fairly sure at nearly any given time this stuff “You have no idea what mood she’s in, what she’s currently doing, how far away she is….” any text can be met with “I’m going to,… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Palma

“father and son then?”

Not sure I get your point –

Just a joke… Lost in translation…

in unfortunate news my son isn’t speaking to me at the moment..

Sorry to hear that. He will come around eventually…

You ever been to Bob Bob Ricard in SOHO? always wanted to go there. Looks great.

EhIntellect
1 year ago

Palma…… “Move in on the mother who just loves you = get the daughter..” Here, Youngmaster! See that!!! FFS, there’s an universal existential understanding that all mothers with daughters on the cusp of the wall…they understand the animalistic attraction of some dashing rake like Palma and its effectiveness on the mom’s future progeny. Now, how does Palma address the situ? He wins the mom and the girl is his with the FI’s blessing. No dragging her to the cave needed. Are you still feeling pressured bending to the unnatural (your idea) cultural norms yet and still prefer arguing why you… Read more »

Youngmaster
Youngmaster
1 year ago

Pre-emptively here: as a side note, I’d like to know how old you guys are, how long you’ve been running game, what you’re currently applying game to (LTR, non exclusive plate spinning, etc.), when the last time you’ve nightgamed or daygamed, etc. Just to get a feel for the experience of the people here. @Eh sounds like I really pressed your buttons or something. Like every statement I make is upsetting you and you just need to respond to it, on top of the fact you keep comprehending things incorrectly. Look man, if you’re so cynical that no one SHOULD… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
1 year ago

Palmasailor So she gets a call option on the stock. She stays at her day job until the gig gets going and then she can call it in. Like a secret lottery ticket…girls love to play “I have a secret”, right? No risk Even then she’s worried about the risk lol.. Heh. She’s a woman. Of course she’s worried about the “risk”. I didn’t regard the reference thing as preselection in those terms but perhaps it was. Sentient agrees, btw. I haven’t looked at one of the business websites where I sold out my part to the last woman I… Read more »

SJF
SJF
1 year ago

“Let’s be more specific: no one on this site should give a damn about me in that they are not obligated to do so nor is there any real reason to do so. They might very well actually care, and that’s great, but under no circumstances should I care about you or vice versa. That won’t stop either of us from having benevolent impressions from positive interactions between us. You’re twisting shit up too much. One of the best things I’ve noticed is that on TRM and in The Red Man Group is that there are independent thinkers that have… Read more »

Youngmaster
Youngmaster
1 year ago

@SJF: there’s a sticking point here with the word “should,” I think that’s the problem. There’s a subtle difference between the way I’m using it and I think the way you and Eh are taking it to mean. No one on the site should give a damn about you? Wtf? Why not? I’m words on a screen no one knows anything about, no one is morally obligated to care and there’s no imperative to do so. Definition: “Used as an auxiliary verb, to express a conditional or contingent act or state, or as a supposition of an actual fact; also,… Read more »

IAS
IAS
1 year ago

Strategy advice: Later tonight there is a sports session after which I can “instadate” a social circle girl, YT, to a different venue, where there will be music and so on (like from 22:30 to 0:00 or such). I’ve seeded this with her already. Tomorrow afternoon there will also be a sports session after which I am like 15 min away from my place (for a change!) so logistics will be good to pull her (assuming YT shows up which is likely) or another target to my place if I play right (not sure who will show up but odds… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

IAS You stud. Work that harem Hoss. Save the sexual Kino for the sex location. Keep it to holding her hand, a squeeze here or there, just enough to break social convention and get her used to your touch. Comfort Kino. Same with the kiss. If you do find yourself compelled just a short one. No tongue… Comfort kiss. Your logistics are solid. Get a bottle of wine in your place and say something like “I have a nice bottle of wine I’m told. I don’t drink, come tell me if it is any good and we can go to… Read more »

j
j
1 year ago

@IAS

Close YT tonight
Close PG tommorow

Juan Antonio style

IRL
IRL
1 year ago

@Sentient Good to see you man. How is the plan going? Ha, as expected lol: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/590f4fa0893fc0f07b736886/t/598afdac15d5db14ee47a5d2/ It was good to have your and Palma’s advice at hand at various points. Together with TRP, it helped me stay the course. I’d say I tested (and confirmed) it all… I still need to deal with too many moving parts, sub-optimal logistics and I took some additional hits overall, but I’m pretty good and in a good mental place. No regrets and it definitely sharpened my mind. Field is king, learn by doing, act to learn and all that. Initially, my confidence took… Read more »

IRL
IRL
1 year ago

@IAS How did it go? I’m not sure what is the best game here, other than being more ruthless than I’ve been. Ok I’ll let you in on a secret: nobody’s ever 100% sure of the best move and/or outcome. You “just bloody do it” (to quote a poet). Some more details: Keep your eye on the ball: 1) What is it that you want? 2) What could be the shortest path to get it? Everything else is manstering… Don’t get stuck between phantom scenarios in your head, just go for it. @Sentient Go for what you want, not what… Read more »

IAS
IAS
1 year ago

@IRL: great to read you in the comments again. Disappointing. Only got a bit of blue balls unfortunately. Yesterday with YT: as I mentioned, I had seeded the venue change with YT. End of session, we get offered a ride close to her place (but it is in the same direction as the venue change). I pull her aside while the guy unparks the car and say “let’s go there”. So we get the ride close to her place say goodbye to the two dudes. Get to the other venue and kind of crash the place jumping over a gate… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

IAS heh… enjoy all that beautiful beautiful data… Couple things… we get offered a ride I know you are super cheap… but I’d avoid this in the future. It didn’t hurt here but could have been a massive self induced cockblock… Keep the chessboard in mind at all times. all going great. What was the vibe like? I can’t tell but it seems like you thought there was more attraction carrying over from prior episode. Keep in mind that little attraction carries over, so you need to restart till you are sure you are getting attraction. it’s easy to think… Read more »

j
j
1 year ago

“I’m going for the kiss and she goes “you may have noticed, I don’t like to be touched” I bet she didn’t like it when you slapped her ass the other day either 😉 But like what we’re you guys talking about before hand? Any sexual topics? You know there’s a thing called verbal escalation, right? Did her face give you the “look” like she wanted to be kissed? “From what I can figure it out she does genuinely have some kind of issue with physical contact” yeah. most girls who aren’t turned on, generally do… Loading...

IAS
IAS
1 year ago

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I know A doesn’t carry over entirely. I spiked the conversation with some sexual topics, I passed her through some compliance hoops with getting her up and dancing and such, lots of eye contact, and when we were in the isolation she kept the hand on mine and we were touching sides and she wasn’t moving away, etc. I’m not that good at calibration but she was laying down and we were looking at each other when talking, so I thought she was ready to be kissed at that stage so I did the torso… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
1 year ago

Ah, Palma..in the World Is A Small Place category…I have met the first woman on your list. She was visiting New York for work at the same time I was, at least a decade ago, and we had some common friends and went for drinks in a big group. I still remember chatting to her for a while because the combination of her jobs is so unusual and I remember thinking she was cute and funny and way cooler than my then girlfriend (of course this was in my deeply BP days so I would have had no clue what… Read more »

theasdgamer
1 year ago

@IAS “I know about “what they do not what they say” but what boils down to “don’t touch me” is quite the shutdown.” Well done as regards all you did up until this point. However, your calibration is a little off, but you can fix this with more experience and experimentation to fill in the holes in your social understanding framework. In your context, “don’t touch me” was a test and an invitation to tease her, even if she didn’t consciously understand that herself. Keep focusing on improving and learning calibration and you’ll keep improving your game. So you don’t… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Palma Funny stuff with the whiskers… “Given the further information (perhaps I didn’t read the previous fully) this was a shit test.” Yeah, you can tell because back in the original FR, AFTER her pullback she was OK with his teasing touch. Standard IOD on his escalation… So pullback and DHV until IOI and restart. The pullback is key, how it’s done. Zero butthurt and the less you acknowledge it the better. Just totally ignore as if it never happened is best I find. If you have to say something Mystery’s old line still works “You looked like you wanted… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Culum

That’s crazy but yeah some world’s are very small.

Would bang if slim…

Lots of the mid 30s girls at the conferences I go to are like this.

Would be crazy if we did meet…

IRL

Good to here you are still grinding. The best thing about being an entrepreneur (a term a never use) is being able to answer that one call, make that one connection, get that one deal that changes everything.

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Palma

Every one on that list is lonely and scared.

IRL
IRL
1 year ago

@IAS Sounds like “I don’t like to be touched” was a sign you weren’t enough of a bad boy. Boils down to entitlement. She sensed it, hence the shit test = resolves it one way or another. Slapping the ass is a bold move. Were you up to the expectations though? Like, sexual topics is one thing, but being challenging and handful (even if only with words) is another. They all want to deal with an uncontrolled force of nature just waiting under the surface. No harm no foul broski, it was great regardless. You had an opportunity to gather… Read more »

IRL
IRL
1 year ago

@Sentient
an entrepreneur (a term a never use)

Ah yeah that was in the above graph I find accurate regardless (nb. @IAS it will feel the same on your journey with girls etc., ups and downs)

Interesting enough, ‘entrepreneur’ is popular mainly among people who can’t reach a sustainable hook point with the market to make money (so they need to keep pitching to VCs) or who get stuck self-employed (and then of course by others wanting to sell them something)… I don’t blame you for distancing yourself lol

http://wealthmissionpossible.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cashflow-quadrant.jpg

IRL
IRL
1 year ago

@Palma @Sentient It’s the lack of leadership (a few years after all the “I don’t need a man”, “I’m a strong independent woman”, “I’ll do what I want”). The other day someone forwarded this to me (and that’s not even from a dating site): I feel like I’m going through a bit of a quarter life crisis and honestly I feel really upset. I don’t really know what my personal goals are, and I turn the big 30 next January and don’t feel like I’ve accomplished much. I don’t know if I want kids one day. I don’t know what… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

“Quarter life Crisis” … At 30. Lolz

Good luck on hitting 120.

IAS
IAS
1 year ago

@IRL: About the hugs with YT, they weren’t reserved but they weren’t the blatant boob pressing kind (those boob pressing ones I had today from yet another target, GG, want to see if I can pull her on Wednesday despite crap logistics). The funny thing with YT hugs was the first time I walked her home (so not this more recent outing where I didn’t escort her all the way home), she gave me a hug on one side and then I was detaching and she almost falls forward as she was going to hug me on the other side,… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

IAS

Not this is rejection…

https://twitter.com/betmybookie/status/1130175474737524736

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

Now not “not”

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago

‘I can’t do this anymore …’ (she said) @RolloTomassi and others: I would be grateful for the wisdom of wiser (if not older) heads than mine about the ending of my current relationship. :: Me :: I am a 54-year-old, university-educated divorced man (divorce was seven years ago) with one adult son. I exercise regularly and do what I can to improve my mind in terms of reading and learning. I have had several casual encounters and one very short-term relationship prior the most recent, which has ended after 15 months at her behest. :: Summary Background :: I became… Read more »

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago

@palmsailor
Many thanks for the quick response; I await your thoughts…
TantumErgo

IRL
IRL
1 year ago

@TantumErgo Good to have you here looking for answers. Know it’s where sugar coating ends and you may not like what you’ll see. Grab each comment as an opportunity to break free of your current limiting beliefs. Start here: I think that I lost frame somewhere along the way, although I don’t know exactly where. When was it in your frame exactly? You seem to have reacted every time she’s reached out to you. You’ve tolerated each misbehavior and she knows you have no boundaries she can’t cross. You’ve got tooled. Rebuild your frame first. Until then no love for… Read more »

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago
Reply to  IRL

@IRL I realise that that there is no sugar coating to be had here, and I have come in search of answers. I take your point about tolerating Babushka’s misbehaviours and failing to set boundaries. And no, cuckolding is not my thing — I had that in my marriage and certainly don’t want any more of it from now on. As to when, if ever, I hade any frame with her, then it was right at the start, when I told her to hit it or quit it. But, from what you are saying, I never did. So, as a… Read more »

j
j
1 year ago

@TantumErgo “(1) Is this relationship well and truly done (as I suspect it is), or if not: (a) Is it worth another shot; and if so (b) what is the best way to go about it?” Ask yourself: what do YOU want. Do you wanna girl that will fuck you and only you? Ok. Then this girl ain’t the one ™ bro. She’s ain’t that type of girl. (Dont, “well maybe not, but I’ll make her into that type of girl!!!” Nah. Find a girl who already wants what you want. It’s called vetting. And from what you’ve just written,… Read more »

SJF
SJF
1 year ago

@PalmaSailor I love your devotion, man. “You OMG’s – just look what you’re missing.. lol” I’ve never figured my self missing a god damned thing. But that’s just me in my unicornlandia thing. My buddies keep me honest. As I should be and as they should do. I have not comment about those girls. Except good luck with that. “I’ve never referred to myself as an entrepreneur. You gotta be fucking shitting me. I read your book. If you are not an economic/money grubbing entrepreneur you are most certainly a red pill sexual entrepreneur. And I say that int complimentary… Read more »

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago

@j Many thanks for your thoughts and comments: https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-118/#comment-274270 (1) As to what i want I initially just wanted to fuck Babushka, but then I fell in love with her — and it had certainly hadn’t been my intention to do so. But I agree, she certainly isn’t LOTR / ‘marriage’ material, and she is more than BPD, and there have been more than enough red flags. A recent one was when she almost smashed a musical instrument she is learning to play in a fit of frustration. When I playfully suggested that wasn’t a good idea, she snarled at… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
1 year ago

Palmasailor
According to the gulag about 25% of women have a diagnosable mental illness and I’d just love to know how this breaks down by age and specifically single / divorced women over 40 with and without children…

If I remember correctly, 25% of women over 40 are on antidepressants…for a start.

Now, if we count “box wine” as a drug…

PS All those girls in your list are 30 to 40 something and some are obviously high strung. When they get close to menopause it’ll be a real treat!

kfg
kfg
1 year ago

“A recent one was when she almost smashed a musical instrument she is learning to play in a fit of frustration. When I playfully suggested that wasn’t a good idea, she snarled at me: ‘I do what I want!’”

Ghost.

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago
Reply to  kfg

@kfg

Ha! Ha! 🤣

‘Ghost’ — Simply and wonderfully put!

Thank you.

The near-instrument-smashing episode was followed by the ‘I can’t do this anymore’ rant only two days later.

But, clearly I missed a trick and should have ended it then and there, if not much sooner…

TantumErgo

Centuries
Centuries
1 year ago

@TantumErgo

I concur with KFG, your best option is ghosting. Note you haven’t convinced me that she is BPD, but if ghosting her does not prove to work, and abandonment issues show up…. run. Life is too short to throw away on someone like this.

You want someone who is a force multiplier in your life

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago
Reply to  Centuries

@Centuries

Many thanks for your advice — there is a majority opinion forming that I should cut my losses, build some frame — and run if need be. 😊

For my benefit, I am curious to know what you consider to be typically symptomatic of BPD.

I have some difficulty with this as, coming from a Mediterranean background (Anglo-Saxon father / Latin mother) violent mood swings and emotional outbursts are fairly typical of the womenfolk in my family. 😁

TantumErgo

kfg
kfg
1 year ago

” . . . violent mood swings and emotional outbursts are fairly typical of the womenfolk in my family.”

And the comfortable familiarity that this has engendered in you serves their interests, not yours.

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago
Reply to  kfg

@kfg

Lightbulb moment!

Thank you.

TantumErgo

SJF
SJF
1 year ago

@Tatum “Emotionally-affected Personality Disorder” That’s a cute euphemism for BPD. And no, BPD isn’t BiPolar. The former is a personality disorder that doesn’t go away and is barely manage-able. It is only tolerable, if tolerated. And the latter is a psychological disease/brain disorder. Did you ever hear of google searching: “how to spot borderline personality disorder”? https://www.psycom.net/depression.central.borderline.html Symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder Borderline personality disorder symptoms vary from person to person and women are more likely to have this disorder than men. Common symptoms of the disorder include the following: Having an unstable or dysfunctional self-image or a distorted sense… Read more »

SJF
SJF
1 year ago

Brooks Koepka keeping Frame:

https://twitter.com/SI_ExtraMustard/status/1130172293949341696

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

TantumErgo “Although I had resolved to make a clean break with Babushka, I still feel that it is not yet over between us (although I am probably deluding myself here). I took some advice from a friend who is a professional psychologist, and described Babushkha’s personality traits to him. His take was that he thought she might be suffering from Emotionally-affected Personality Disorder (EAPD), which is rooted in childhood where a child is over-indulged by their parents to the extent that they do not learn to control their emotions. This manifests itself in adulthood whereby someone suffering from EAPD has… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

TantumErgo I have some difficulty with this as, coming from a Mediterranean background (Anglo-Saxon father / Latin mother) violent mood swings and emotional outbursts are fairly typical of the womenfolk in my family. Have you watched The Sopranos? “On the plus side, this is the f i r s t break-up I have experienced (despite my years!) where I have not experienced any rancour, bitterness, jealousy, rage, self-loathing, or desire for revenge — so some kudos to me!” Have you ever been the one breaking up or always the one been broken up with? [Always amazed so many guys have… Read more »

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago

@sjf Thank you for the steer regarding BPD and Bi-Polar: https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-118/#comment-274264 I have now read the link to the symptoms of BPD, by way of a little homework, and your extract to it: https://www.psycom.net/depression.central.borderline.html What WAS I thinking! That’s right, I wasn’t — and my take-away is that ignorance can never be bliss in this matters. I get the distinction between being Bi-Polar and having BPD — and I do think that Babushka checks-off against many of the symptoms described, as far as I managed to observe during the 15 months that I was with her, and also if what… Read more »

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago
Reply to  Sentient

@Sentient

Yes, I have watched the Sopranos — a great show — and I could stand to do a little yelling from time to time. 😀

As for breaking up with women: a little of both, but mostly I have been the one being broken-up with.

So, going forward: lines in the sand, non-negotiable red flags and clear ultimata such as ‘do that, and I am gone’?

TantumErgo

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago
Reply to  Sentient

@Sentient

Many thanks for this — and yes, I do know that it’s time to move on, and I also understand that this will build frame, which I am in need of.

But it is useful to get the feedback, perspectives and takes from this RM forum, for my understanding and learning.

TantumErgo

SJF
SJF
1 year ago

Tantum: A red pill manosphere content provider Shawn T. Smith has an excellent book on vetting women for LTR’s. Get it and read it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0990686442 For men, love is a high-stakes gamble. The right woman can be the best part of a man’s life, and the wrong one can lead to personal and financial ruin. In today’s climate, no man should venture into romance without a reliable risk-management strategy. The Tactical Guide to Women delivers a solid plan for allowing the right women into your life, and keeping the wrong ones at a safe distance. You’ll discover how to: Identify… Read more »

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago

@palmasailor

Any takes on my ‘Babushka’ disaster, that haven’t already been covered — on the basis that you have managed to think it over while having a coffee?

NB: I haven’t done anything rash or in a hurry, as suggested:

https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-118/#comment-274266

TantumErgo

SJF
SJF
1 year ago

@palmasailor

Any takes on my ‘Babushka’ disaster, that haven’t already been covered — on the basis that you have managed to think it over while having a coffee?

Why do you call it a disaster? It’s the past. Water under the bridge. And the sex was good. Move on.

Two words is all it takes.

SJF
SJF
1 year ago

“I thought she was HPD.”

Isn’t that a distinction without a difference?

“…then again she came back for sex.”

I’m a firm believer (and so was YaReally) that it can be a good thing as a single man without committment to tryst with BPD chicks.

At the very least it will keep you on your toes. And there is good sex. Just keep Frame and Exit at the appropriate time. She will let you know when. Trust your gut.

Testi
Testi
1 year ago

Agreed.

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago
Reply to  SJF

@SJF
A ‘disaster’ (overstatement) because I was played, and I didn’t think that I would be, and I also fell in love with her without applying any reason.

Lesson to learn, and time to move on, as you say.

TantumErgo

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago

@palmsailor

Many thanks… I share a kindred spirit with regard to surviving abusive women from childhood… and there is definitely something about that name. 😊

Onwards I go.

TantumErgo

Sentient
Sentient
1 year ago

TantumErgo

“So, going forward: lines in the sand, non-negotiable red flags and clear ultimata such as ‘do that, and I am gone’?”

This is how you establish the edges of a “frame”…

Have you read Rollo’s Iron Rules?

https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/

“Iron Rule of Tomassi #1

Frame is everything. Always be aware of the subconscious balance of whose frame in which you are operating. Always control the Frame, but resist giving the impression that you are. “

No Frame / No Game

TantumErgo
TantumErgo
1 year ago
Reply to  SJF

@SJF

Thank you for the link to the Shawn T Smith book — it seems like a nugget of gold, and the next step in my education.

TantumErgo

theasdgamer
1 year ago

Tantum, the first rule of Game is to know thyself. Why are you interested in a girl? Is it because you are being controlled by an addiction? Is it a crush or some other chemical dependency? Because, if it is, you can be manipulated easily by the girl and you won’t be dominant and attractive and you probably won’t act in your own best interest and like you would if you were a man free from addictive compulsion.

Get free from addiction and avoid any girl who gives you “feel good” feelings. Been there.

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