Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

15,699 comments on “Field Reports

  1. @Softek

    Good post – and surely a common experience for most guys growing up in the Third Wave of Feminism: Open Hypergamy

    https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-121/#comment-276947

    And, in particular, this:

    “And it does suck. But mostly because of the bigger picture: it only happens (chronically) to guys who have no clue. And they have no clue because of their childhood lack of masculine influence/instruction/bonding, and the cycle repeats through the teens and even well into the 20’s and beyond, until they stumble upon a resource like this blog or by some miracle find some guy to help them, and show them the light.

    And by that time, a lot of self-esteem issues have been brewing, because of the complete lack of sex, often complete lack of female attention and touch as well, even friendly. The older you get, the longer you go without, and the more it fucks you up. Meanwhile, the complete sexual frustration/isolation blocks out what should be a time for developing masculine traits, skills, Mental Point of Origin, etc.

    You never really read or hear anything about how going without any kind of sex or relationship or female interaction at all for the entirety of puberty and early adulthood fucks up a guy’s development, but I’m convinced it does.”

    I have been clueless for y e a r s … 🙂 And I have a couple of reasonably good friends who resolutely cling to their cluelessnes, hoping that everything will magically fall into place in terms of their dealings with women — but of course it won’t.

    In my case, this started very early on for me. My parents divorced when I was only 7, and my late father was vilified for his conduct by the women in my family,who took great pains to point out to me what a bstrd he was, while typically idolising him!

    He was pretty f*cked-up: both his parents were dead by the time he was 19, and this trauma, I think, made him decide that his goal in life was simply going to be indulge in his pleasures, drinking and pussy, to the exclusion of everything else: his job, his children,and both his first wife (my mother) and his second wife (my stepmother).

    For practically the whole of my childhood and teenage years, my father was absent, both physically and emotionally. He never thought that he had any responsibility to anyone else in his life, and certainly never showed any interest in imparting what he believed to be his sense of ‘masculinity’ to me as his son.

    I, too, did my share of therapy as a teenager, trying to come to terms with a deep sense of abandonment by both my parents,and npne of this was helped by the remaining womenfolk in my family doing their upmost to remind me on a daily basis about what a nasty piece of work my father had been, all the while yearning for him to be a presence in THEIR lives! And so, the message for me during my formative years was: Whatever-you-do-don’t-turn-into-your-father! What a kick in the balls from the FI!

    I really struggled with this, trying to be ‘nice’ to women and conduct myself ‘honourably’ with people who quite frankly didn’t deserve it.

    The happy irony for me now, is that having discovered RM and TRP, I am finally starting to free myself of the emotional baggage from my childhood, and embrace that part of my nature which I get from my father and not denying it. Life is better as a result.

    One of the positives for me is that my relationship with my own son (who is grown-up) is radically different the complete lack of relationship which I had with my father. I am there for him when he needs me, and give him the benefit of my advice when HE asks for it. He has a bright future, and has his head screwed on — no parent could ask for more.

    TantumErgo

  2. @Sentient

    I’m trying to figure out server girl mentality.

    Here’s my understanding–tell me if I’m wrong.

    Server girls share tips and are paid a low hourly wage. On weekend nights it’s all hands on deck–nobody is getting sent home early. Yet, despite the community pot system, these girls are very competitive. They complain about other girls getting customers in their area. One whined when I hit up a bartender instead of her for a drink. And I’m not a big tipper by any means. She said that I should be loyal to her since she danced with me. (Not really, but Ok, lol.)

    Server girls are very forebrain-oriented when it comes to money. If you can mix them up and make them feel instead of thinking, then maybe they will feel romantic towards you.

    I think that server girls get attached to certain customers and may even become fond of them. Of course here’s a need for attention and validation involved. There’s some sort of chemistry which can develop into long game if you work it. Of course, you can try to game them directly to speed things up.

    Of course, you have to prove any romantic interest by seeking a date, number, or makeout to know for certain.

  3. @sjf, thanks. I think that short story also points out that I still have a lot of work on self-improvement in a masculine direction that I’ve got to do – I cannot imagine my wife pronouncing the same words.
    By the way, at the link you pointed above there is a comment by jacktenofhearts that is also really really good. Mentioning just in case somebody else around here finds it useful.

  4. Go back to sleep, Blax.

    Well, I can’t talk about someone else’s experience, but I see certain server girls going home with guys they just met.

    [Peanut gallery’s gonna throw peanuts, lol.]

  5. @Theasdgamer

    Nobody is saying pulling server girls isn’t possible. My wing for example has pulled 4 hired guns this year alone. 2 waitresses (Medellin, Colombia and Paris, France), and 2 hotel front desk girls (New Cairo, Egypt and Cusco, Peru).

    your getting dislikes only because your autistic server analysis is retarded lol.

  6. Having A Bad Day and Sentient – and others.

    Umm. Some reassurance please. Or a slap around the head if needed.

    Things generally going well with wife and kids – usual ups and downs but overall positive.

    Moving to a new city with family. I came here alone for a month or two to clear the way and start work, and wife and kids staying with my wife’s parents for the summer, to come here in time for the start of the school year.

    Doing online dating as I usually do when away from family for some amusement. Set up a date with a cute woman looking for a hookup.

    Then bombshell drop – she makes an offhand comment about how she teaches at a school in a particular part of town and she’s so glad they are finally closing for summer this week and it’s later than they usually close – it’s the school my kids are going to join!

    It’s a small school and I think she will be the class teacher for one of them so there’s a very good chance I’ll be meeting her as a parent eventually.

    To make it worse, I have an acquaintance who also teaches at that school who I sometimes play golf with, and it says I play golf on my dating profile. She specifically commented that it is unusual to see men in their 30s play golf but there was also another teacher at her school who plays.

    If she mentions she met another golfer online to him and shows him my picture, I’m finished. Of course I don’t know if they are friends and if she discusses her dating life with him, but they definitely know each other socially – she knew about his golfing and it is a small school.

    I didn’t want to completely ghost her and raise even more suspicion, so I’ve said something about a work meeting being scheduled so I can’t meet this week and let’s meet next week, and I’ll let it drift away.

    I also dropped in some details about me that are inaccurate so that if she mentions me to someone casually, they may not make the connection. For example, let’s say I’m really moving here from New York, I told her I am actually here visiting for the summer from LA. Neither of this cities is actually true – it’s just an example, but the point is if she tells a friend “Oh, I’m chatting to a guy who is visiting from LA”, that person won’t connect it to me, even if they know me because I’ve moved from New York. Of course, this kind of subtle coverup will not help if anyone sees my picture or the golf playing comes up (although I did add some misleading details about my golf experience and where I go to play etc, which may mean the connection isn’t made in a casual chat).

    Of course I won’t meet her in person now. And thankfully she doesn’t have my phone number – this was all on chat on the site.

    I didn’t want to completely erase my site profile because it would look strange, so I just deleted the actual profile text (which mentions the golf etc) and I changed the profile picture to one of me playing golf where you can’t see my face, so even if she shows him my dating profile on her phone, I can’t be identified for sure (I figured this all out during the school day though, so it’s possible she showed it to him before I changed the picture).

    One thing I have no control over is that if she gets email notifications about new messages on the site, that email includes my (old) profile picture – I can only hope that does not occur to her (or if she only uses the app on her phone she may not get email notifications at all)

    I really hope I’m overreacting to this. I have no reason to think the teacher is suspicious of anything at this point – the only reason for her to even tell her colleague now is because of the golf point. I could easily meet her as planned and sleep with her – it will be fun, and THEN it will blow up when my kids join school (probably blow up anyway – even if I sleep with her and then she finds out I’m married with kids in a couple months, she may choose to stay silent – but that’s not the kind of walking-in-minefield risk I want to take – reminds me of the Don Draper affair with his kids’ teacher in Mad Men!).

    It could have been a much bigger problem if I’d actually met her (and even worse if I’d slept with her) on the basis that I was divorced or something and then walked into the classroom in a couple of months with my wife to talk about my kids.

    Now we won’t meet at all, so the best case scenario is that in a couple of months she would have forgotten about some random online flirting and a few messages, so even if I meet her in school I can just brazen it out and pretend I don’t know her. Even if she remembers me in two months, what is she going to do? Ask me outright if I’m the guy she chatted to online 2 months ago? Or say “I look familiar”? Or tell my wife that I might be a guy she chatted to briefly online? (by then my profile would have been long deleted so she won’t have any proof unless she has actually screenshotted it now, or kept the dating site email notifications – but there’s no reason to think she’s suspicious right now)

    If it was only that, I wouldn’t be too worried. I would just think a potential disaster had been averted and the residual risk (of being remembered in two months from some online messages) was fairly low – the dating site email notifications are a concern but I have no control over that.

    But I’m worried because of the golf connection to my acquaintance. If she happens to mention it to him entirely innocently over lunch or something, they could easily figure out who I am between them (and if she shows my picture it will be 100% certain).

    Of course, even if that does happen, it’s not as if either of them is on speed dial with my wife, but my golfing acquaintance knows everyone in my social circle in this town and if the news spreads through that circle, it will look very bad for me in the circle, and will eventually get back to my wife when she arrives.

  7. @Rc

    “I think that short story also points out that I still have a lot of work on self-improvement in a masculine direction that I’ve got to do – I cannot imagine my wife pronouncing the same words.”

    Be careful there. I thought you were decent in SMV based on your former comments. What you have to be careful about is judging yourself based on your wife’s willingness to fuck you.

    Do not put yourself down, unless it is warranted. You not imagining your wife pronouncing the same words is quite irrelevant. You and she dug yourself into this hole. Your mission, if you wish to accept it is to dig you out out of this hole. Your mindset, your mental point of origin, your being the patriarch of the family with children is important to your mission and purpose going forward.

    You don’t possibly think that that your wife’s SMV is higher than yours, right? If so why? As couples go on, it is not really a thing that the SMV is a factor, except in the mind of the man. In other words, it has been demonstrated in studies that couples believe that their partner is fine in the attractiveness department. In other words attractiveness doesn’t matter in the long rung. IOW it is your behavior and attitude that matters.

    How do you judge you vs. your wife in SMV? Keep in mind that this is a trick question, because it is not a point, unless you make it a point. I was falsely trapped in that a couple years ago because I was ignorant. My wife is very attractive and high self esteem. And skilled.

    Rc, email me. at gmail

    username is in my title name (parenthicized) above. do it.

  8. TheMarquis

    What about this take: Just be honest. With her. Scary, yes. Risky? Not necessarily.

    You and her both have plausible deniability. She has no incentive to out you as a parent of a prospective student.

    What would she benefit by causing problems in the school system? She would be at risk doing that.

    Treat it as a secret society.

    Just be up front and tell her you want the best for your children. You that should resonate with her.

    1. @SJF

      Straight to the point in your advice to @The Marquis, and brilliant in its elegant simplicity.

      Why worry about the need for subterfuge when direct honesty can cut through to the endgame?

      In my limited experience (and because I am a terrible liar) this kind of direct honesty works for me.

      @ The Marquis

      There is a ‘fear of loss’ principle in play here. Understandably you are worried that you have much to lose if this blows up in your face — but so, too, does the teacher.

      I am not sure how this works stateside, but in the UK, it is not uncommon for school teachers to be at risk in their jobs (some have even been fired) for being seen to have ‘lax’ and ‘morally questionable’ private lives.

      The beauty of the point that @SJF is making, is that she has as much to lose as you do. So she is not going to want to press that button.

      TantumErgo

  9. The curse of the smart guy is that they can rationalize everything too much.

    What would happen if you just don’t overthink stuff. And sweat the small stuff like ASDgamer. (no offense ASD….)

    And by the way, don’t get me started on the false fantasy of bartendress server girl, try a hookup, based on grammar, logic and rhetoric. Facts, understanding and wisdom. Otherwise known as YGBFSM.

  10. @j

    Thanks a ton. Are there videos of other RSD guys which had good content on Game archived like this? Especially their hotseat full infield breakdowns. I cannot believe what RSD has turned into now!!

  11. @ Palma

    Now that’s gonna take some thinking.

    Speaking of old, fat women and guys I don’t want to be around, one of my friends is always going to stuff like that, yoga, meditation groups, etc. Dragging me out to stuff like that has always been like pulling teeth and I’m not sure I can do that kinda stuff again. Definitely not my scene and most of the people I’ve met at “spiritual” places like that seem really avoidant and weird. Could just be me projecting, but I honestly don’t think so.

    There is a place that has an open mic once a week. Since I don’t have a ton of money coming in even going out to eat once a week is a big deal, but that’s the only thing I can think of off the top of my head. A decent crowd usually shows up for that, I think. If it’s anything like it was a few years ago.

    Lotsa old folks there. It’s an old folks kinda place. Old-timey themed, rustic, the open mics are mostly acoustic, folk and bluegrass kinda stuff. But it’s basically a restaurant. That’s the only thing I can think of right now off the top of my head.

    The electronic music/DJ scene is pretty big in some nearby cities and towns. I’d feel like to even have a slight chance of going to one of those places I’d need a buddy to go with. Absolutely hate city driving, like panic level hatred, but I know I gotta start doing something to get over what is developing into borderline agoraphobia. I can see value in just getting out of the house and around people regardless of what it is. I never really thought to look around for any activities, or where to start.

    @ Sentient

    Thanks for the insights. I never would’ve thought of that. So, lead. Either escalate physically there or lead to a different, more private location. Even moving a millimeter is compliance. That makes sense to me.

    Funny how the most exciting thing for me thinking about this is the feeling of growing some balls. Getting laid is a nice idea, whatever — but being the kind of guy that is a leader and isn’t afraid to pursue what he wants. That’s what’s most exciting to me. Sex is seeming more like an “encouragement” now, a byproduct, like it’s saying,

    “Good job being a leader. Good job pursuing and getting what you want. Now go and expand even more. Now go and create even more.”

    I’m excited to actually start feeling like a man, is what I mean. As I mentioned in my other post, I never really felt that before.

    I’ve read and read and read and understand that the sexes are complementary, etc., men lead and women submit, but it’s only been a surface level understanding. Feeling that in your gut, like a part of who you are, is totally different. Completely. Wow.

    Reading your advice and thinking back to the other night when I blanked out, it really clarified a lot to me. Lightbulb moment. I blanked because I haven’t taken charge of my own masculinity yet. Haven’t fully embraced it, haven’t harnessed it. All the Red Pill knowledge I have is stuck in my brain, hasn’t made its way down through the rest of my body.

    It’s an exciting prospect. My RP knowledge has just been sitting on top of my skull. To realize it’s not just external information about the world but a key to me tuning into my own masculinity, as my own man. I never thought of it like this before this moment. Or felt it, I should say.

  12. Much thanks to both of you who commented. I haven’t been sleeping thinking about this.

    I hadn’t thought of that at all – the angle that she also has plenty to lose by sleeping with her student’s dad (even if it happened shortly before they joined etc).

    Basically I think there are two ways this can go wrong

    Option 1: She recognises me in school when my kids start in a couple of months and makes it a problem. For the reason SJF and Tantum have said, this is probably not going to be an issue – she may not even recognise the guy she was online flirting with and if she does, no incentive to bring it up.

    Option 2: Nothing to do with my kids as such, and doesn’t even need the teacher to know I’m married or that there’s a problem. Hell, she’s not the principal – she may not even know yet that my kids will be joining the school. She could literally have had lunch at school yesterday with the guy I golf with and talking about her dating adventures, and mentioned she’d been chatting online to another golfer. That’s not a problem by itself, but it only takes a couple more casual sentences about me for my acquaintance to figure out that the guy she’s talking about is someone he knows and is married with kids (ie, me) and to tell her that. And then for the guy to start gossiping in our social circle about how I am online dating when my wife’s not in town etc – which is entirely true but will still damage me.

    From what I can tell, Option 1 – especially after SJF’s and Tantum’s points – is low probability and not worth worrying about.

    Option 2 still worries me though – I have no control over it. Of course it depends on a lot of “ifs” and “buts” – she would actually have to talk to the other teacher who knows me, she would specifically have to talk about her online dating and mention me, she would have to reveal enough about me (or show my picture) that they figured out who I am…lots of steps to jump through. Plus it’s last few days of school and they must also be getting ready to go on holiday. So hopefully it will come to naught. But Option 2 is completely out of my control…

    PS – I should add also that I don’t use my real first name when doing online dating, so she can’t even link me by name.

    PPS – Is it wrong that I’m still tempted to meet her and sleep with her, if it’s all gonna go wrong anyway? She sounds like she’d be really kinky and good in bed…but that probably is just the “lack of abundance” thing I heard about when I used to watch Pick Up Artist videos.

    1. @The Marquis

      My particular problem is that I tend to over-rationalise things …. or indulged in ‘manstering’, as a seasoned commentator in this forum once correctly identified and also correctly told me to stop! 🙂

      I think that you are right in that you have no control over Option 2 … or possibly Option 1 for that matter.

      But, taking a leaf out of @Sentient’s excellent advice, why not try and apply the Platinum Rule:

      ‘Do whatever YOU want, whenever YOU want to do it.’ ? This may bring you some clarity, and @Sentient wisely notes that the Platinum Rule leads to Alpha.

      As for the ‘abundance’ versus ‘scarcity’ dilemma, we are men: sex and the desire for it as abundantly and as plentifully as we can get it is in our DNA.

      If I have learned anything, it is that life is short and that I never like to pass up a good thing. If you think that this teacher could be a ‘good thing’, and you have weighed-up the pros and cons of sleeping with her from a position of confident abundance rather than fear (and this has been my default Beata-ised response in many a past situation), then do as YOU wish.

      Personally, I only have one rule: I try not to ‘shit in my own nest’ — ie if a woman that I want to fuck is otherwise associated with me in terms of my working environment or social clubs (I practice Martial Arts, and so my female club-mates fall into this category), then I consider them to be off-limits. I have come to this ‘rule’, which although not cast-iron or set in stone, merely because experience has taught me that the risks, when such sexual liaisons go sour, outweigh the benefits and short-term gains in sexual pleasure — but that is me.

      The ball is in your court.

      TantumErgo

  13. Asd

    The girl at the deli counter in my supermarket wants my dick. I know because I ordered a pound of pastrami, and she gave me 1.2 pounds.

    Re marquis situ –

    Interesting dilema, but it’s not actually a dilemma if you think about it. Just go all Eddie Murphy/shaggy and say ” it wasn’t me “, and stick to it. There is no proof to the contrary.

    Still wanting to bang this chick. No problem. I don’t believe a man, married or not, should deny himself willingly, from getting what he really wants. But is it what you want, or is it the implied danger! The risk? Like shark diving and bungee jumping? Risk has to be managed. More than one man has blown up his entire world fucking around with some random pussy. It’s a shame when it happens, because no skirt is worth pain and sorrow in the end.

    You also have to manage ” worry “. Worry is useless. If you’re certain about a thing, there’s nothing to worry about. If you worry about something, there’s 2 possibilities. A) you just tend towards overthinking. B ) you’re battling an inner voice. You’re stepping too far out of character too quickly. Unsure.

    This woman, all she is in actuality is just another girl. It’s the circumstances that elevate her in your head. She will start to appear to be more than she is because of all of the stuff you’re attributing to her. Frame danger.

    So it’s up to you if you want to roll these particular dice. But you can’t ever feel that it you don’t bang a particular woman, that you’re missing out on something. That’s pedestalizing and scarcity bundled together. ” pedescarcilizing “.

    To me, the truth is always that you can fuck anybody you can fuck, and nothing changes that outside of whether or not you choose to act on it, and your motivation to do so.

    Just avoid agonizing over this or any other shit.

  14. Marquis

    What’s up you 😈…

    Hot water is hot ain’t it? Enjoy it.

    That’s why you are doing it after all. To feel alive.

    Social circle is a different game. This is why I don’t do any online stuff and never hide my ring. Be authentic and in real life.

    Because it’s not the acts that cause as much trouble as the cover up. If you slept with her and she didn’t know you are married… She’s gonna be pissed….

    And your wife will feel the repercussions. It will be subtle, probably something like she mentions to some co worker omg can you believe that creep in my class was hitting me up! And it never really gets back to your wife but she feels a certain distance from the mom groups that get in on it.

    As to this woman, if she ever gets back in touch with you or ever brings this incident up again just say you were seperated and got back with your wife.

    Done.

    She has 300 other dude’s hitting her profile she probably isn’t going to chase you down… Cats have different problems than dogs.

    If you see her in person just be cool and hold frame.

    Now is it wrong to want to bang her ? Not at all. But know you are opening a can of works.worms.

    Draper pretty much owned all his shit, including the consequences.

  15. @sjf, thanks. no I don’t think I am low SMV, and I was not putting myself down with that comment. I was simply saying that I would be really surprised if she said the words in that little joke (“a wife should never…”), given her unwillingness to fuck.
    she considers me a kept man. Which brings us back to dread.

  16. Softek

    “I never would’ve thought of that. ”

    Time to break out Mystery Method and go through it.

    Or PUA shorthand – instigate, isolate, escalate…

  17. “She has 300 other dude’s hitting her profile she probably isn’t going to chase you down… Cats have different problems than dogs.”

    That’s the funny thing about ASD’s formulation about server girls. If they were worth banging, they have a thousand choices of men to bang. And you want to play long game as a stingy tipper and your physical and cognitive attributes? If she isn’t with a guy already and committed, then she would be defective anyway. Especially with ASD’s concern about STD’s.

    “Now is it wrong to want to bang her ? Not at all.”

    It’s not wrong to want to bang her at all. You have free will, you have intellect, you are a smart guy. You can calculate your strategy and logistics. You don’t need a cheering section. You don’t need someone else to legislate or decide your actions.

    I keep mentioning Dr. Laura Schlessinger. If someone called in and asked her to make a decision on what fork they should take, she always will say: “I can’t make that decision for you….”

  18. @TheMarquis

    Having A Bad Day and Sentient – and others.

    Umm. Some reassurance please. Or a slap around the head if needed.

    https://giphy.com/gifs/cheezburger-slapping-funny-2nGfl4QfpCtW

    feelz like you’re alive, right?…lol

    Things generally going well with wife and kids – usual ups and downs but overall positive.

    props!… but i sense some drama ahead… if things are going too well…

    Moving to a new city with family. I came here alone for a month or two to clear the way and start work, and wife and kids staying with my wife’s parents for the summer, to come here in time for the start of the school year.

    Doing online dating as I usually do when away from family for some amusement. Set up a date with a cute woman looking for a hookup.

    i see some drama on the horizon…lol

    Then bombshell drop – she makes an offhand comment about how she teaches at a school in a particular part of town and she’s so glad they are finally closing for summer this week and it’s later than they usually close – it’s the school my kids are going to join!

    sooo, you are going to send your kids to a school that hires sluts?…lol… (ya i know, they all do…lol)

    It’s a small school and I think she will be the class teacher for one of them so there’s a very good chance I’ll be meeting her as a parent eventually.

    those PTA meetings could get kind of fun!…lol

    To make it worse, I have an acquaintance who also teaches at that school who I sometimes play golf with, and it says I play golf on my dating profile. She specifically commented that it is unusual to see men in their 30s play golf but there was also another teacher at her school who plays.

    If she mentions she met another golfer online to him and shows him my picture, I’m finished.

    why?… did you not own the fact that you are married with kids?…lol… you know that’s throwing your frame into the interwebs, right?…lol

    Of course I don’t know if they are friends and if she discusses her dating life with him, but they definitely know each other socially – she knew about his golfing and it is a small school.

    I didn’t want to completely ghost her and raise even more suspicion, so I’ve said something about a work meeting being scheduled so I can’t meet this week and let’s meet next week, and I’ll let it drift away.

    I also dropped in some details about me that are inaccurate so that if she mentions me to someone casually, they may not make the connection. For example, let’s say I’m really moving here from New York, I told her I am actually here visiting for the summer from LA. Neither of this cities is actually true – it’s just an example, but the point is if she tells a friend “Oh, I’m chatting to a guy who is visiting from LA”, that person won’t connect it to me, even if they know me because I’ve moved from New York. Of course, this kind of subtle coverup will not help if anyone sees my picture or the golf playing comes up (although I did add some misleading details about my golf experience and where I go to play etc, which may mean the connection isn’t made in a casual chat).

    Of course I won’t meet her in person now. And thankfully she doesn’t have my phone number – this was all on chat on the site.

    sooo, you haven’t even met her in person?…lol… just ghost her and deny any involvement (like Blaximus says…)… normally, my advice would be to own your sh*t, but this seems to be causing you some anxiety…

    then, when/if you meet her in person and IF it comes up, just pretend that she is making it up to be able to ‘meet’ you… and that she doesn’t have to work that hard to get a date…lol… even better if it’s in front of your wife…lol

    I didn’t want to completely erase my site profile because it would look strange, so I just deleted the actual profile text (which mentions the golf etc) and I changed the profile picture to one of me playing golf where you can’t see my face, so even if she shows him my dating profile on her phone, I can’t be identified for sure (I figured this all out during the school day though, so it’s possible she showed it to him before I changed the picture).

    and THAT doesn’t look strange either…lol…

    One thing I have no control over is that if she gets email notifications about new messages on the site, that email includes my (old) profile picture – I can only hope that does not occur to her (or if she only uses the app on her phone she may not get email notifications at all)

    I really hope I’m overreacting to this.

    you are… it pings as the guilty conscience of a beta ‘cheater’…lol…

    the fix to that is… own your frame…

    I have no reason to think the teacher is suspicious of anything at this point – the only reason for her to even tell her colleague now is because of the golf point. I could easily meet her as planned and sleep with her – it will be fun, and THEN it will blow up when my kids join school (probably blow up anyway – even if I sleep with her and then she finds out I’m married with kids in a couple months, she may choose to stay silent – but that’s not the kind of walking-in-minefield risk I want to take – reminds me of the Don Draper affair with his kids’ teacher in Mad Men!).

    as @Sentient mentioned Draper always owned his actions/consequences… for good or bad…

    but i’ll point this out again… this wouldn’t be a problem if you had owned the fact that you are married/kids… as long as girls know what they are getting into, most are ok with ‘married’… there really are not THAT many AF studs around… if girls want that, they have to share… and they know that… anything they throw at you to the contrary is a sh*t test/frame test…

    It could have been a much bigger problem if I’d actually met her (and even worse if I’d slept with her) on the basis that I was divorced or something and then walked into the classroom in a couple of months with my wife to talk about my kids.

    this ‘hiding your status’ is even more damaging to YOU… even if you never meet her/anyone… it really does mess with your frame/MPoO… like you are not good enough for a girl to be interested in YOU… without some possibility of ‘beta provider’ trickery in play… and that you meeting YOUR sexual needs is somehow ‘bad’… that’s the FI hand on your shoulder i keep talking about…

    Now we won’t meet at all, so the best case scenario is that in a couple of months she would have forgotten about some random online flirting and a few messages, so even if I meet her in school I can just brazen it out and pretend I don’t know her. Even if she remembers me in two months, what is she going to do? Ask me outright if I’m the guy she chatted to online 2 months ago? Or say “I look familiar”? Or tell my wife that I might be a guy she chatted to briefly online? (by then my profile would have been long deleted so she won’t have any proof unless she has actually screenshotted it now, or kept the dating site email notifications – but there’s no reason to think she’s suspicious right now)

    worried about mommy catching you with your hand in the cookie jar, are we?…lol… do you see how this ‘frame’ is the cause of all your current problems?…

    If it was only that, I wouldn’t be too worried. I would just think a potential disaster had been averted and the residual risk (of being remembered in two months from some online messages) was fairly low – the dating site email notifications are a concern but I have no control over that.

    But I’m worried because of the golf connection to my acquaintance. If she happens to mention it to him entirely innocently over lunch or something, they could easily figure out who I am between them (and if she shows my picture it will be 100% certain).

    Of course, even if that does happen, it’s not as if either of them is on speed dial with my wife, but my golfing acquaintance knows everyone in my social circle in this town and if the news spreads through that circle, it will look very bad for me in the circle,

    or… you could spin that into a secret society abundance situ…lol

    and will eventually get back to my wife when she arrives.

    fix your frame before that happens and it won’t be an issue… even if this teacher goes for a makeout at conferences…lol… and if your wife brings it up, just deflect with “if you want to try a threesome with her, just spit it out… no need to be all sneaky about it…” the downside, of course, is that your wife might take you up on that…lol

    good luck!

  19. “If they were worth banging”

    “Nobody is saying pulling server girls isn’t possible.”

    …two questions nobody asked or cares about in this context…people are having problems following the discussion between Sentient and me…reading comprehension…

    “your getting dislikes only because your autistic server analysis is retarded lol.”

    …at least you’re discussing something tangentially relevant…saying something is retarded doesn’t make it so…especially from folks with reading comp issues…

    …the only question I care about is whether server girls might be sexually interested in their customers and how you can tell when they are and when they are just trying to get bigger tips or some work-related reason…I don’t care if they are worth banging or whether pulling them is possible…

    …don’t be superficial in your thinking and try to understand people’s motives…what Blax has been talking about…game…I have been throwing out game questions and the peanut gallery throws peanuts and nobody provides answers…

    …Blax’s example of pastrami girl isn’t comparable to a waitress in a bar on a weekend night…girls who work bars/clubs on weekends are almost always looking to hook up with hot guys….

  20. Asd

    Girls are girls are girls.

    You’re trying to ” figure out ” if one set is NAWALT or awalt.

    Stay out of bars and shit until you’ve spent 1000 hours observing women in the wild.

    I’ve been called ” honey ” and ” baby ” and ” sexy ” by servers in bars and restaurants, and just that alone never made me wonder about sex.

    Had sex with women that served me in some capacity, but the random polite server banter had nothing at all to do with it. They weren’t hitting on me for sex, it was about providing decent service and tips. To ” see ” anything else in that is incorrect – unless you are gaming them. They aren’t giving you ioi’s by being pleasant or slightly flirtatious. Cool your jets.

    Lol, you’d be a hell of a mark for a pro.

  21. Blax

    ASD has a big ego investment in thinking every girl who looks at him wants to bang him.

    Of itself that’s not a bad frame.

    But when you never act on anything you stick yourself into the realm of delusion.

    Best not to talk about unless you are proving attraction.

  22. @theasdgamer

    “I care about is whether server girls might be sexually interested in their customers and how you can tell when they are and when they are just trying to get bigger tips or some work-related reason”

    “when you never act on anything you stick yourself into the realm of delusion”

    100% truth. You have to act on it. That’s what my wing told me when I asked him. If you find her attractive, you see the look in her eyes that she likes you back, and when talking to her you can feel the sexual tension in the air….you have to act on it. Sure some girls (especially hired guns) are really good at faking it for big tips (or whatever reason they may have for faking it), but the only way to know for sure is to actually go for it. Bust a fucking move. There is your answer.

  23. “ASD has a big ego investment in thinking every girl who looks at him wants to bang him.”

    Your game needs work.

    “Sure some girls (especially hired guns) are really good at faking it for big tips (or whatever reason they may have for faking it), but the only way to know for sure is to actually go for it. Bust a fucking move.”

    Been there, done that. Just not on server girls. In a bar. (As opposed to Blax’s deli. “I’ll have a reuben.”) Sometimes girls comply and sometimes not.

    Sentient’s advice assumes that I shouldn’t be flirting with girls and calibrating girls’ interest if I’m not gonna follow through. Of course, it always pays to keep your skills honed. All the OMGs (except Sentient) know that and do that. But maybe not on server girls, which is my current interest.

    Sentient says to assume that girls are just playing you. Blax thinks that I can be played easily. (His game needs work. I don’t usually pay attention to minor flirting and I’ve been called all kinds of endearments and girls have blown me…kisses, lol.)

    But the intense competition by one girl surprised me and I’m trying to figure out if she’s just a one off or maybe she’s just more open about undercurrents at the bar. I think I’ll ask server girls tomorrow about whether server girls are territorial or possessive about clients.

  24. “Had sex with women that served me in some capacity, but the random polite server banter had nothing at all to do with it. They weren’t hitting on me for sex, it was about providing decent service and tips.”

    …and it was about getting attention and validation…things all girls seek…and most girls working in service industries are extraverted and like being around people and chatting people up…

    …of course, I get this sort of thing, too, and it’s NBD, except when my radar goes off because something is a little hinky…like you’ve pinged a girl’s radar with some value demonstration and she’s evaluating you as a potential mate…staring at you up close and acting possessive like when you ordered a drink from someone else and she didn’t like it.

    …last drink a waitress brought me was deficient in alcohol…I like to see a drink being made…

  25. …and it was about getting attention and validation…things all girls seek…and most girls working in service industries are extraverted and like being around people and chatting people up…

    Lol, okay I will bite: Prove this statement to be TRUE.

    Most girls that are working, particularly in the service industry are not seeking ” validation “. They are seeking a steady paycheck. Most of these jobs require that one plays nice with the paying customer. Hell, even most strippers I’ve known aren’t particular extroverted, and they’re 80% naked.

    When I worked with strippers, I ran into quite a few guys that thought like this. By the end of the night, they were convinced that the girl(s) wanted to go home with them because ” she kept winking at me ” or ” she said naughty things in my ear “, or the worse, ” I gave her a thousand bucks…”.

    Game demands more asd.

    ” Looking ” at you isn’t enough. At least stick a finger or 3 inside a few, then you’d be on to something.

    Just don’t do it at the bar.

  26. Blaximus
    I’ve been called ” honey ” and ” baby ” and ” sexy ” by servers in bars and restaurants, and just that alone never made me wonder about sex.

    Last month on travel I charmed our way to a good table in a small restaurant. The pretty Jamaican hostess seated me last, saying “We’ll put Dah-dee right here” with a nice eye-contact look.

    So?

    It didn’t make the tip any bigger…

  27. Blaximus

    Keep going man. This is the most fun I’ve had in the last half hour.

    Spergatron should be required to begin every comment in this section with “Dear Penthouse….”

  28. ” …and it was about getting attention and validation…things all girls seek…and most girls working in service industries are extraverted and like being around people and chatting people up…”

    Lol, okay I will bite: Prove this statement to be TRUE.

    Ok. But first tell me what sort of empirical test or study or logical reasoning would constitute adequate proof. For you.

    “Most girls that are working, particularly in the service industry are not seeking ” validation “. They are seeking a steady paycheck. Most of these jobs require that one plays nice with the paying customer.”

    …and intraverts are so much better than extraverts at playing nice…and girls only focus on their paycheck when they work…they turn off standard girl motivators like seeking validation and attention…and girls working at bars don’t choose to work at bars so that they have access to hot guys…

    …Blax, you are hilarious…do you ever watch girls at bars???!!!???

    …I go to Wally World and girls there are seeking validation while they shop…they see me and smooth their hair…check to see if I’m looking at them because they want validation…sometimes I open them for amusement and their voice and eyes are a little excited because they are getting attention…do you even notice girls in the wild????

    Girls don’t turn off the part of their brain looking for male attention and validation just because they are working. Or shopping. Or driving. Or studying.

    Reminds me, a girl invited me on a study date. And wanted to make out right away. Hinting by looking over the top of her books at me. We had a lot of “study” dates, but we didn’t get much studying done.

  29. “…and intraverts are so much better than extraverts at playing nice (depends)…and girls only focus on their paycheck when they work…( more do than don’t) they turn off standard girl motivators like seeking validation and attention…( they can )and girls working at bars don’t choose to work at bars so that they have access to hot guys…( Dog Logic )”

    …Blax, you are hilarious…do you ever watch girls at bars???!!!???

    You got me there. Not a huge bar guy. Just watched and interacted heavily with women all my life, particularly the last 45 years.

    …I go to Wally World and girls there are seeking validation while they shop…they see me and smooth their hair…check to see if I’m looking at them because they want validation…sometimes I open them for amusement( Possibly fear ) and their voice and eyes are a little excited ( frightened/ creeped out ) because they are getting ( unwanted ) attention…do you even notice girls in the wild????

    Ummm….. No words.

    Girls don’t turn off the part of their brain looking for male attention and validation just because they are working. Or shopping. Or driving. Or studying.

    True. But they don’t think like you assume they are thinking. They don’t necessarily want attention from every swinging dick in the vicinity.

    … or at least that’s what I’ve seen from being around them in the wild..lol.

    Reminds me, a girl invited me on a study date. And wanted to make out right away. Hinting by looking over the top of her books at me. We had a lot of “study” dates, but we didn’t get much studying done.

    okay, limit this kind of talk to the last year. Alright, the last 5 years. You been on ” study dates “: recently?

    Is the ” Gamer ” part of your moniker strictly about electronic devices?

    Asd, you know I’ve been married twice. My first wife, was absolutely head over heels ( that saying makes no sense ) crazy in lurv with me. My second wife showed zero interest in me when we met, and would barely say more than a sentence to me before walking away. 2 different women, 2 completely different interaction initially, same end result. Both Gamed, 2 different levels.

    Question: If you got divorced tomorrow, and you wanted to re-marry, would you be able to Game one of these dozens of women you think are giving you a torrent of IOI’s all over Wally World and in Bars and Dance clubs?

    Sugar Daddy position not withstanding.

    I’m not as old as you, but I’m close enough. Over the last couple of years, I can visually see less IOI’s from younger chicks. Mind you, I’m not fat, but I’m sporting a white beard ( close cut ) and at least 60-70% grey hair. I’m defining ” younger ” as 18-24 years old. The only way I can gauge IOI from a chick standing 10-15 feet away is to actually open her. A chick walking past me saying ” I like your sneakers ” isn’t an IOI…well…it’s a IOI for Nike.

    It’s my job to run Game. I can’t say ” she keeps looking at me, so she must want sex “. When she says ” I live here, we need to hook up/hang out some time, it’d be fun “, then I think ” she might be down to fuck “. When she says ” we should just fuck and get it out of the way already “, then I’m pretty sure she’s interested.

    I mean, you’re right about the little signs and the nuances, but ya gotta read that shit correctly and understand that it’s just a hint. A clue. A possible opening. And yes, girls like attention from certain men ( according to their perception(s) ). Any halfway decent looking chick gets PLENTY of validation, so they are more picky about whom they want to feel validated by.

    Lol, it’s like the 40 something year old woman that’s chasing me all over my city ( 2 cities now. I ran into her in the next town over recently. She was on me like my shirt ). when she says shit like ” I’m going home to my empty house now. Yup, all by myself in that big house. I’m just going to relax. Nobody but me all night…”, I’m like ” Cool. Take care and have fun “. Her attention isn’t validating anything in my life other than I can bang all the 40-somethings I want to.

    You want to see validation seeking behavior? Go to a club or venue filled with athletes. You ( and me too ) will be rendered invisible…..save for Game.

    And it’d better be some earth shattering Game at that.

    Yes, I’m familiar with ” girls in the wild “. Lol. EVen now when I’m not chasing like that, I get to talk to them and hear what they think – particularly about the various men that approach them and how they were approached and what they were thinking about it.

    Cats, my friend, aren’t dogs.

  30. “…and intraverts are so much better than extraverts at playing nice (depends)” …you telling us something, my friend?

    …and girls only focus on their paycheck when they work…( more do than don’t) …at bars on a weekend night? lol

    they turn off standard girl motivators like seeking validation and attention…( they can ) …if they aren’t attracted to a guy…then they can’t…

    …and girls working at bars don’t choose to work at bars so that they have access to hot guys…( Dog Logic )” …not really…most girls working at bars are working part time in addition to a full time day job…they chose bars for money AND prizes…instead of working at the library or bookstore…

    …if a girl is working at a bar, hypergamy is a factor…always…

    ““…I go to Wally World and girls there are seeking validation while they shop…they see me and smooth their hair…check to see if I’m looking at them because they want validation…sometimes I open them for amusement( Possibly fear ) and their voice and eyes are a little excited ( frightened/ creeped out ) because they are getting ( unwanted ) attention…do you even notice girls in the wild????” …fuck you, lol…if a girl is creeped out she will disengage immediately…ain’t happening…I know what “frightened” looks like and I know what nervous looks like…there’s a tad of nervousness, but that’s always the case if there’s any sexual tension…again, thanks for playing, but you’re reading the situation wrong…

    “True. But they don’t think like you assume they are thinking. They don’t necessarily want attention from every swinging dick in the vicinity.”

    …preaching to the choir…

    “okay, limit this kind of talk to the last year. Alright, the last 5 years.”

    Why?

    “Asd, you know I’ve been married twice. My first wife, was absolutely head over heels ( that saying makes no sense ) crazy in lurv with me. My second wife showed zero interest in me when we met, and would barely say more than a sentence to me before walking away. 2 different women, 2 completely different interaction initially, same end result. Both Gamed, 2 different levels.”

    Gamed well the second time, from a relationship perspective. I’ve only been married once, so I can’t compare different wives. But, on my initial approach, my wife backturned me without speaking when I walked over to her at work. Other girls were flirting with me uproariously and Mrs. Gamer thought it was very inappropriate at work. She has strict rules and will judge your ass by her rules. She still asked me out after we talked at a few parties.

    “Question: If you got divorced tomorrow, and you wanted to re-marry, would you be able to Game one of these dozens of women you think are giving you a torrent of IOI’s all over Wally World and in Bars and Dance clubs?”

    Lol, few women give me a “torrent” of IOIs. Maybe one or two IOI’s, but I don’t act on them so the interest fizzles. Every now and then a woman will deliberately brush me or put her hand on my ass or try to dance close to me. That gets my attention, and often not in a good way. I want girls to comply with my requests and not do their pervey shit.

    “Sugar Daddy position not withstanding.” Sugar Daddy? Me? Mr. I-don’t-buy-girls-drinks?

    “I’m not as old as you, but I’m close enough. Over the last couple of years, I can visually see less IOI’s from younger chicks. Mind you, I’m not fat, but I’m sporting a white beard ( close cut ) and at least 60-70% grey hair. I’m defining ” younger ” as 18-24 years old. The only way I can gauge IOI from a chick standing 10-15 feet away is to actually open her.”

    My head is shaved and I stand straight as always…not slouching or suck-ass stance…I walk with a spring in my step like I’m 40…this is really the only visual thing I can think of that might get girls’ attention without opening…but I don’t wait for IOIs before opening girls…

    “You want to see validation seeking behavior? Go to a club or venue filled with athletes. You ( and me too ) will be rendered invisible…..save for Game.

    And it’d better be some earth shattering Game at that.”

    lol, I don’t go to those places, but sometimes athletes come to my bar…once a girl said that some sports celebrity was in the bar…”Really?” [then I changed the subject and the celebrity was rendered invisible] …holding frame works…I didn’t know that that was “earth shattering Game.”

    “Yes, I’m familiar with ” girls in the wild “. Lol. EVen now when I’m not chasing like that, I get to talk to them and hear what they think – particularly about the various men that approach them and how they were approached and what they were thinking about it.”

    I don’t put much stock in what girls say…I watch what they do.

  31. Server anecdote from last night…a pretty bartender I actually like got me a drink…the usual (whiskey neat and water separate, and she remembered the water)…then ignored me when I wanted water later, so I met the new girl…later, a drunk girl opened me and the first bartender got me water and I said that she just plays me every time and I fall for it every time (I was playing dumb) and she laughed and pranced and gloated over her prowess for the drunk girl and I played along.

    I forget the order of events, but the drunk girl was very handsy and pervey and I was worrying about CYA and trying to figure out how drunk she was and whether she would comply with my demand that she stop PDA. She wouldn’t and I exited.

    What was the game with drunk girl? Preselection with the pretty bartender. I told the girl that I enjoy bringing the party to people. I told her that I don’t do online dating, but if I did, my intro would be “Bitches, take a number.” I told her about a special thing I do with tits that girls like. She was talking about how she would ride me all night and the woman was trying to get me to make out up at the bar and I was dodging, dodging, dodging. She wanted her friends to have a look at me and a few came by and Ok’d me and she was waiting for the rest and I took off when she was distracted.

    It’s amazing how many married women are at the bar…maybe half of the women are married.

  32. Hey guys! I am posting my stuff here as I would be grateful to get advice from guys who are all on their own path to improving themselves but don’t have a product or course to sell.

    I came across Game sometime back. And by Game I mean London Style Direct Daygame. I thought that was what Game was and did not know of other schools of Game and it looked great on youtube so I fell in love with that style. I am an Indian and at that point was living in India, I got an opportunity to travel to Europe and did a bootcamp with a London Daygame style company. In 2 days the instructor pushed me into a 100 odd sets and I got few numbers, ended up going on dates with 3 girls and pulled two of them back to my room but faced LMR. I went back fully convinced that Game worked.

    A year later, I have now moved to Central Europe and as I work part time at night, I wanted to concentrate on daygame. But I found it incredibly hard to muster up the state to do direct openers and the full run around street stop that the London guys advocate when I am out daygaming on my own. My city has a population of just about 1.5 million and doing the front stop everyday and me being a minority, I feel attracts a lot of attention or maybe it is just social pressure but I feel crippled by it.

    Just a few weeks ago I heard about Mystery in a video where he was being ridiculed but then I got curious and got his book and read it. I thought it was fucking gold. Realized Game does not mean going up to a girl and saying you are nice/cute/hot etc. I also read Roosh’s Daybang and have been trying his indirect openers. I can open far easily now, since it is not high pressure. i open and have platonic chats but don’t know how to transition to attraction after that. I was looking for advice on how to make Mystery Method work in the daytime on the street, malls, parks etc. Can anyone here help me out on stacking openers, transitioning into routines and all that old school stuff which I never knew existed. For me I feel starting off now having material I can rely on would help me a lot, though all the new Game guys speak deprecatingly about canned material.

    Any guidance to resources or advice would be great!

  33. Rc,

    SJF mentioned to me offline that you are back and I’m glad for that.

    Some thoughts….

    MRP and red pill generally attempts to explain human nature with empirical psychology-ness though a masculine narrative. TRM helped me understand how I was actively frustrating my masculine nature for the sake of social acceptance.

    What MRP fails to explain is this: Rc, you can become hyper-clever manipulating your wife’s insecurity index…so clever that you can dial up or down her fear of nothingness (dread) at will by commission or omission. You can manipulate AF sex out of her. You can manipulate obedience out of her. You can manipulate her submission.

    As long as you force-pressurize the marriage, pushing AF machismo plus the side-order of BB and accepting her shit testing and nastiness in perpetuity as a condition of the soi-disant kill-or-be-killed intersexual dynamic, you’ll live in a state of negotiated matrimonial truce…knowing that matrimonial war is a real possibility if you go off the TRM Jungian-insecurity-drives-our-subconscious-and-thus-our-actions script.

    Think of it this way: AF sex is a negotiation…fuck me or you don’t get my presence. BB sex is a negotiation…fuck me or you don’t get stuff. Both AF an BB are negotiated sex. There is no such thing as RP desire sex. RP is seductive as it sells large-print external, ego-boosting validational “desire” sex. RP is toxic as it includes small-print intersexual combat as a premise of life.

    RP does not consider your wife a free-willing, sentient person. Per RP, she literally can not choose to fuck you because it is the right thing to do. RP subscribes to the law (lol) she will always fuck you for something tangible.

    You will never find peace of mind that way…but many men would accept a little pussy and endless bullshit over household comity and understanding. I’ve come to realize Rollo and TRM and RP is not about seeing a woman’s “true nature”. It’s about driving women into a state of perpetual fear. Hence Rollo’s devotion to Robert Greene’s Power…authenticity is for fools…the world is a fixed pie…get yours while you can…morals are for chumps. (They don’t even define morality correctly, again lol.)

    There’s more to a successful marriage than living in the trees. Rc, you do have a choice to live at peace with your wife and children and yet have lots and lots and lots of sex. I do.

    btw: SJF, Roused, others and I have been talking off-line for years. We’re best friends. We’ve had some epic theory-to-practice battles without egos. Reconsider joining our off-line tribe and have a great day.

    1. @Ehintellect

      Interesting post and advice for @RC.

      But I am curious (as I have a good friend in similar territory: he is married, loves his wife immensely, is an excellent provider, and yet she has no desire for him and has told him as much).

      How do you do this — ie have a fulfilling and sex-filled marriage?

      For my part, I never succeeded…

      Many thanks.

      TantumErgo

  34. Two things to add to my anecdote:

    The girl said, “You’re so fucking hot!” (lol, she was so fucking drunk)
    The girl said, “You’re not going to fucking leave me.” (my first attempt to depart…I was facing Scorned Girl ™ drama and needed a different exit)

  35. “Think of it this way: AF sex is a negotiation…fuck me or you don’t get my presence. BB sex is a negotiation…fuck me or you don’t get stuff. Both AF an BB are negotiated sex.”

    I choose door number three: she fucks me and departs and doesn’t need my presence and will fuck me even if she doesn’t get my presence.

    “There is no such thing as RP desire sex.”

    Relatively true if you’ve never experienced it.

    1. @theasdgamer

      “Door number three” = The Holy Grail.

      I remember clearly in my early days with Babushka, she went back to visit her parents in Eastern Europe.

      She told me that she would try and hook up with someone so that she could ‘get you [me] out of my [her] head.’ (I suspect she did.)

      My reply: ‘You can fuck as many people as you like, but it will never get me out of your head.’

      Her: ‘You’ re right. ‘

      Followed by:’ You can do anything that you want to me. ‘

      I did. 😊

      TantumErgo

  36. @Palmsailor

    Yes: I am in London, and very much like to talk it through.

    Tuesdays / Thursdays and Fridays are good for me. 😊

    TantumErgo

    1. @theadsgamer

      Thank you. 😊

      I totally lost the plot with Babushka… but I am learning.

      TantumErgo

  37. @ gamenoob

    I also saw the direct London Daygame stuff on YouTube, like this one:

    I have no idea what to make of it. Since I’ve never actually gone out and field-tested it, any “critique” I’d have of it would be purely mental masturbation. I’d be curious if guys here have successfully used this model and whether it’s good advice to follow or not. I understand the concept that saying “you look nice” is “pedestalizing” but having never done this in real life = mental masturbation.

    IOW, I’m not about to critique guys going out and trying ANYTHING while I’m sitting here in my underwear punching away at a fuckin keyboard. But I am curious what guys here think of that.

    So I have the same question. How does Mystery Method work in a Daygame approach scenario? I’m constantly reminded of times I’ve been out shopping and got extreme IOI’s that I never acted on. Like chicks bumping into me with their shopping carts, following me around, etc. I would tentatively assume interest, but not act on it. So I just chalked it up to: maybe this girl was interested, maybe not. All I know is I’ll never know because I didn’t take a risk because I was scared, and did nothing. And I agree with the idea that there’s only two reasons guys don’t approach:

    1) They’re afraid
    2) They don’t know how

    Mystery seems to be a fan of canned material, and repetition, from what I’ve read so far. In the Mystery vids on YouTube, he talks about how “saying anything” means saying anything from a list of material that you have already tried and know that it works.

    Obviously improvisation is fine but I think he was making the point that improvisation is not something you do as a rank beginner who has no material in mind, and has the problem of blanking out and saying/doing nothing, or not approaching at all.

    Being a musician, I’m relating “openers” to “scales” in my mind. Things you just drill by rote memorization until you can do them without thinking. Improv comes later. So I’m trying to get familiar with the idea of canned material, and start developing some. Because right now, I don’t have shit.

    One of my issues is I am naturally averse to negging. Completely. I get negged all the time by guys at parties, and while I know they’re joking and having fun, it makes me extremely uncomfortable, because I don’t know how to banter back and forth with it. Maybe because I don’t neg them back and don’t feel comfortable doing so. Sometimes the references they make, like to some celebrity or pop culture thing, I simply don’t know what they’re talking about or have never heard of this person before.

    So it’s funny to me to see that even with guys, I have issues “playing the game.” My natural tendency when someone gives me shit is to just say nothing and be silent, or nervously laugh and then do and say nothing. I’m usually too anxious to think of some quick witted thing, whether it’s a playful comeback or an “Agree and Amplify.”

    My brain just stops and I’m like “Wut?” Just makes me think of this:

  38. Interesting post and advice for @RC.

    But I am curious (as I have a good friend in similar territory: he is married, loves his wife immensely, is an excellent provider, and yet she has no desire for him and has told him as much).

    How do you do this — ie have a fulfilling and sex-filled marriage?

    One of the things I noticed along the way with my journey and reconstruction, is that RP is a Process and praxeology (what works) first. It contains useful tools in a toolbox. You use those tools to modify relationship patterns and to self improve.

    But at some point a guy has to unfuck himself, and keep unfucking himself. And in Rian Stone’s vernacular, stop stepping on his own dick and then try to analyze the imprint.

    EhIntellect, perhaps, is not saying don’t use the RP toolbox, because he did use that to his advantage. And then perhaps go further and beyond Process. To not keep trying to find the right cheat codes. To actually Be Attractive, and not Un-Attractive. To be Dynamic, Passionate and Authentic. To be a masculine Man in Full. “You can’t think your way into acting differently, but you can act your way into thinking differently” (–attributed to Russell Brand) Neuroplasticity is the capacity to change and integrate change to re-wire your brain. It’s doable, and then when internalized it becomes a natural way of operating. What Rollo mans when he says internalize a masculine Frame.

    So, I used the entire side bar of MRP reddit for process. And what EhIntellect was describing was a thing that I experienced. The adversarial battles with my wife were just that–battles. At that point it was not about process anymore. Not about sex, and not about negotiating desire.

    At this point it was about self differentiation, stepping outside of the relationship. Then using self differentiation tools, and then stepping back into the relationship arena a better man. And not requiring her to change unless she wanted to. Letting her be responsive to the better man.

    And after a while I settled into the realization that I wanted “healthiness” instead of battling. A collaborative alliance rather than a collusive alliance. (And I don’t indict Red Pill for this, I indict me as the individual operator in the equation.)

    A collaborative alliance is more important than perfect technique. It works for the wife and kids. It is not Blue Pill or Purple Pill. Part of MRP or LTR’s is being adaptable. Coordinating and dealing with partner conflicts. Being able to skillfully resolve conflicts and arguments. It would be better not to have conflicts or arguments, but that is not how relationships work. Healthy successful relationships have them, but they resolve them with skill. (You see the irony here, right. Lol, that does take negotiation outside the bedroom.)

    To answer the question Tantum Ergo posits, it is burden of performance, and being the person that you should be and that you honestly want to be. Attractive, not unattractive. (your friends wife doesn’t want to fuck him because he is not attractive to her and she doesn’t have desire to fuck him.)

    It starts with: Admit you have a problem, believe in the possibility of change, and then ask for help and follow suggestions.

    None of this means it will work out. The process is probabilistic, not deterministic.

    Umm, Sorry for using more theory than practical advice or even the cheat codes…

    1. @SJF

      Thank you very much for this — and especially this:

      “At this point it was about self differentiation, stepping outside of the relationship. Then using self differentiation tools, and then stepping back into the relationship arena a better man. And not requiring her to change unless she wanted to. Letting her be responsive to the better man.”

      Passion, authenticity and dynamism: the three pillars, then to becoming ‘the better man’… from which all else stems.

      TantumErgo

  39. I choose door number three: she fucks me and departs and doesn’t need my presence and will fuck me even if she doesn’t get my presence.

    Yes. That is the definition of self differentiation. Your wife can stand on her own two feet and feel comfortable with herself.

  40. @gamenoob, Softek

    Read Bacchus’ intro to day game:

    https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/general/311854-intro-to-day-game

    and then his day game Lay Reports

    1

    “There’s a lone girl sitting on a bench. She’s looking at her phone. Shopping bags around her wrists. Took a seat next to her. At a respectable distance. I’m glued to my phone as I sit on the bench. Giving her the opportunity to digest my vibe freely. From her perspective, I’m just a well-dressed window shopper. Resting his legs and glued to his phone like everybody else. But with noticeably better body language and presence. Relaxed posture and an almost poetic stillness. I sat close enough for an opener to be heard, in case I ultimately decide she’s worth my time.

    “Do you know if this is the only mall downtown?”

    “Yes this is the only mall downtown. There are a few other malls in the suburb areas though. Those ones are bigger.” She replies.

    “Ah thanks, just moved here. I’m still trying to get used to the city. So I figured the best thing for me would be to take a stroll. . . and find out where all the important places are.”

    “Oh where are you from?” She asks. Taking the bait.

    “Take a wild guess.”

    This leads to a conversation with travelling as the first interesting topic. As I direct the conversation by managing the precise point where topics shift.

    With a hypnotically laced statement. Or a question that makes her think deeper. I mention how breaking the monotony of life. . . and starting over in a new city feels exciting and liberating. Then we discuss hypothetical future destinations that would interest her. She tells me she would like to go to Italy.

    Because that’s where her family comes from and it’s been so long since her grandfather has been back in his home country. He only speaks Italian.

    “I see, so by going to Italy, you would be returning to the country of your ancestors. Maybe you could even find yourself. . . feeling a strong connection with this place. You immerse yourself in the culture. With the people and their way of life. You feel connected. . . almost like you’ve come home. And this feeling of connection allows you to learn, grow and discover the part of yourself. . . that originated in this place. I think this trip would be an enlightening experience.”

    “Yes! Wow. . . I hope to feel that connection in Italy. I love Italian food, the culture and the history! I want to learn more about it too. And I’d love to go there with my Nono. That’s grandfather in Italian. He always tells me about how much he misses being in Italy.”

    So we’ve moved past polite chit chat into deeper and more interesting conversation. I take note of how animated she currently is.

    I like to pay attention to the current mood of any girl I’m seducing. She’s already turned her body to face me directly. Her pupils are dilated. I’m still talking to her over the shoulder though. Anyway there’s a lot of eye contact between us. And a low yet noticeable amount of sexual tension. As she continues to digest my vibe.

    Which is not surprising because due to the nature of this conversation. Her emotions and imagination are currently engaged.

    Now I personally like starting a lot of my seductions. . . with conversations centered around travelling, and going on adventures. Not just because topics like these involve emotions like excitement and the thrilling spontaneity of adventure. But also because a seduction at it’s core. . . is an adventure.

    Taking a new woman to bed with you is an adventure. Developing an emotional connection with a stranger, or even pair bonding with a stranger. . . is an adventure.

    So by starting your seductions in these topic areas. You allow her to start thinking and talking about adventures. Potential destinations of interest or maybe some vacations she’s had in the past. If you can use your conversation skills to derail her into that frame of mind. . . right from the beginning. Then she will start to feel that same excitement and thrill. Allowing you and your ensuing interaction with her to be associated with the same feelings of going on exciting adventures.

    Now from what she told me. I was able to steer the conversation. . . towards another emotionally charged topic. Connection.

    As the conversation progresses. I take in what she gives me and continue to lead things towards emotionally charged topics. Using topic fractionation and lush verbal descriptions of various emotional states, to covertly direct her imagination. . . as well as induce these emotions and feelings in her. Over and over again throughout the course of our conversation.

    Thus increasing the odds of her forming a strong association between spending time with me. . . and these pleasurable sensations that she continues to feel.

    She tells me that she enjoys going to art galleries in her free time. Then asks me if I’ve had the chance to check out some of the downtown galleries.

    I tell her that I haven’t yet but because art and creative expression, are topic areas with more opportunities to engage her emotions and imagination. . . I decide to stay on topic. Mentioning my passion for painting and sketching. Soon I’m describing the calm and serene experience of making portraits.

    Feeling completely relaxed and comfortable in your body. As you use a paintbrush to express your yourself. It’s also worth mentioning that relaxation, is a strategically effective emotion to induce in girls you’ll meet via day game cold approach. Letting them feel relaxed as they embark on an adventure with a charming stranger.

    Anyway a couple minutes more of some light chit chat. To fractionate topics. Then I tell her I’ve got to get going.

    Mentioning a desire to pick up some books at a nearby Chapters. But I follow up with. . . we should continue this conversation over coffee. She agrees with alacrity. We exchange phone numbers. She puts her last name in too. I fluff during the exchange and for a little bit longer afterwords.

    To avoid giving her a lasting impression that I was just after some phone number. And potentially ruining the strong first impression I’ve already built up. By disappearing immediately after the exchange. Anyway, I can see that very she’s happy to have met me and eagerly anticipates our rendezvous.

    Two days later we meet at a cafe near my apartment. This spaces also doubles as a gallery for local artists.

    Quick hug once she arrives. If I were to lead this adventure towards sex successfully, she would be among the top tiers, looks-wise of all the girls I’ve bedded so far. This realization excited me. Not enough to appear over eager. But just enough to my presence to ooze warm and sexual vibes. I suggest we get our drinks. She gets a cappuccino. I get a green tea.

    Once we were seated. At a discreet corner table with our drinks. The conversation continued. Starting with light fluff.

    She mentioned an experience during the week, at one of her university lectures. Along with her course and faculty. I let this evolve into a conversation on the future and our chosen career paths. We discussed what she wanted to do when she was still a child. And what she was working towards now. When she returned the same questions. I let her know about a relatively new passion of mine with many opportunities for emotionally and sexually-charged conversation. . . Acting.

    This was the main reason I allowed the conversation, to progress from the otherwise boring topic of university lectures. . . smoothly towards more exciting areas like dreams, the future and possible career paths. It’s important to mange your conversations in a way that makes these topic progressions look as natural as possible.

    “Acting’s always fun for me. Like there’s the thrill, and rush of excitement you feel, every time you go to a new audition. Everyone, the casting director, agents and producers will be paying attention to you. Waiting to be impressed and charmed by you. It feels. . . empowering to have this audience in each audition.”

    “That sounds great! To have that audience, but I don’t know if I could do it. Public speaking makes me nervous. Do you get scared you might mess up?” She asks.

    “There’s always a part of us, that might feel frightened in these situations. However, if you do your groundwork and research for each role, you feel a lot more confident about it. And the more you prepare, and the more auditions you go to. . . then the more this feeling of confidence grows. Moving forward, something else I always tell myself if I’m feeling nervous. . . is it’s only because I’m equally, if not more. . . excited about this opportunity.”

    “Ah, okay. That makes a lot of sense, I like it. I’ll try and remember that in the future.”

    “Yeah it something you can always tell yourself. In a variety of situations like at an audition, when trying something new. Or embarking on an adventure. And you want the thrill and excitement of this experience to motivate you. Overpowering the nervous side. . . that wants to hold you back. You just focus on these feelings of excitement and anticipation. And let these enjoyable emotions take the lead. What more is I find that acting. . . is a real opportunity to express many different sides of yourself. . .”

    “Like a form of creative expression? Freeing your creative or artistic side?”

    “Yeah, it’s creative expression. What’s more is we generally have to suppress or hide different emotions, or parts of ourselves as we go about our day. Something might happen, or you might feel a certain emotion, but because of where you are. . . at your job, at school, or wherever. It’s not always appropriate to show this side of you, and because of this you have to suppress it. On the other hand, when you’re acting. . . it’s just acting. So you can feel shameless in your self expression, show different sides of yourself, and even tap into some of your more intense emotions. It’s a very liberating feeling. . .”

    This opens things up for a discussion, centered around shamelessness and liberation.

    Before long we’re talking about sexual liberation, and how important it is to allow people to freely express their sexual selves and desires. Without judgment. Even in a society that seeks to repress the natural desire for sex. Especially if you’re a woman.

    She agrees with me saying, it’s nobody’s business who she decides to sleep with, and what she does with her body. I fractionate back towards lighter topics. Pointing out one of the art pieces on the wall beside us. Then asking her about her creative outlets, if she has any.

    She tells me she’s recently taken up embroidery. So we talk about some more pleasurable sensations, that one feels as they make art. I mention the intense feeling of focus, and how reality can just fade into the background, as you focus more and more, on completing your artwork. Then I fractionate back towards another light topic. I repeat this process a few more times. After a pause I ask her if she would be interested in seeing my artwork.

    We would look at portraits, listen to music, have a few drinks. . . and best of all I live pretty close by. She was game.

    I keep the conversation going as we stroll past the lobby, get into the elevator and enter my apartment. We both take off our shoes and she follows me to the bedroom.

    By this point we’ve spent under one hour together total. I take off her winter coat. We sit on my bed, side by side, as she looks at my portraits one by one. She makes several approving comments. I put on a playlist, created specifically for this moment. There’s some light yet tension filled conversation.

    Moments later I pat the space beside me, and suggest she sit closer.

    She moves towards me immediately, and snuggles into my chest, while continuing to look at my artwork. I put my arm around her. Before long we’re kissing. Softly first then passionately. She lets out a sensual moan, as I kiss on her exposed neck. Then I sweep my hand across the bed, in a deliberate fashion.

    Sweeping all the portraits off to one side. Making more room on my bed, for the two of us”.

    2

    “Theres a nice looking brunette in the sports section of the bookstore. hovered within ear-shot. Pretended to look at books about hiking. 19 years old. Big hazel-green eyes. An innocent-cute face. Attractive, even though she appeared to be wearing no make-up. Through my periphery I see her fingers are curled around the cover of a book. She lingers in the sports section and doesnt leave. I get the sense shes looking at me, even though I wont look to make sure. A moment passes. Is that book any good? I ask. Referring to the book in her hand. She says its a great book, apparently she had read it before. But this version is a special edition or something. I respond by saying, Yeah, its nice when you can find one of these books you really get into. Ive been looking for one, now that Im done unpacking (bait).

    Oh are you not from here? she asks, taking the bait.
    No, I moved to this city recently.
    Where are you from?

    Take a wild guess. Always make her work for it, early on. Its good for social frame. She took a few guesses before I told her. This leads to a conversation about travelling to new places, alone. How it can be scary at first, but then you realize you get to enjoy a sense of freedom and precious anonymity this way.

    And how this anonymity can enable you to do whatever you want. Maybe even some of the things you cant do freely back at home.

    No ones going to be able to judge you if you went backpacking alone, through South America right? She echoed this sentiment, telling me about a trip she took recently. We talked about this for a few more moments. Decided to take the conversation to another emotionally stimulating theme.

    If I were to ask you, whats something you do, like a hobby, that you really enjoy?

    We talk about her hobbies. Shes really into hiking, which makes sense, you might remember that she was holding a book on hiking. I asked her what she really liked about it, how it made her feel, stuff like that. Then she returned the question to me. I told her about my painting hobby, and why I like it. How it really makes you feel so relaxed, and while youre feeling relaxed, you also find yourself in this state of focus, you’re tuning out all those other distractions, and when you bring these strong feelings of focus and relaxation together, combining them leads to you getting this great feeling which is sort of therapeutic.

    I dont use a stack to emotionally stimulate or hit any of the three keys any more. Its my opinion that stacks are great but ultimately theyre training wheels for the real thing. Which is doing all this on the fly.

    Also, whenever Im talking about something like this, a feeling or emotion or anything which is positive, I use my hands (which are usually moving and rarely in my pockets during a seduction) to subtly gesture towards myself. When this is done in co-ordination with other Speed Seduction concepts such as trance words, commands and verbal linking phrases then in my experience the effect is quite powerful. And then, if the conversation moves to an experience, person or anything that is negative. Ill subtly gesture away from myself when talking about those negative sorts of things. .

    She told me about her photography hobby and how it can get pretty relaxing as well. And how hiking also gave her a similar feeling. Listened to her with a facial expression which was warm, yet sexual. Decided to take things a step further. Lets grab a coffee so you can tell me more about hiking. From what youre saying, it really does sound interesting.

    She smiled and agreed. There was a beat. Asked her what she had going on right now.

    Unfortunately she was killing time at this bookstore because she had to meet some friends later in the evening. So I took her phone number. We talked a little bit more. Fractionated with some light joke about judging books by their covers. Then I left the bookstore.

    Texting went over smoothly. I met her on Wednesday, we set up a date for Friday. Texted back and forth for those two days.

    She’d ask me about my day and stuff like that, so I’d answer and return the question. Friday rolls around. Took her to an old fashioned cafe which also doubled as an art gallery. A discreet place with great scenery. Candle lighting, wooden floors and tables, as well as many paintings, photos and other works of arts on display all around the cafe.

    She got a beer. I got a green tea. Noticed the effort she had put into her outfit and look today. Its always fun to see girls get all done up for me on the first date. And in day game, youll often find the girls show up looking hotter for the first date than when you approached them. And with this girl, I could see just the right amount of cleavage to intrigue me. There was a lot of sexual tension throughout our date. The warm and sexual looks I had been giving her at the bookstore came a lot more frequently at this cafe. We talked some more about travelling, places wed like to go, and shared a few travel stories. I learnt shed visited Prague once, but preferred Berlin since it wasnt that touristy.

    Decided to set a non judgmental frame just in case. Talked about how I noticed North American societies can be very harsh on women when they decide to express themselves sexually. We had a pretty deep conversation about that, where I pretty much implied Im not the type of guy who judges women for expressing themselves sexually or a guy likes to kiss and tell. Id been sneaking in a lot of embedded commands throughout the seduction, however I was surprised to find myself using some of these covert emotional stimulation tactics while talking about how its important for women to feel allowed to express themselves sexually.

    After setting these frames. I fractionated to a lighthearted topic. Back on the theme of travelling. I talked about certain humorous quirks unique to certain cultures around the world. Sometimes Id stop talking and just look at her for some moments. Letting the eye contact linger.

    She would often break the silence, ask me something new and the conversation would pick right up again.

    There was some more talking. More eye contact too. Then I told her about a sketch Id worked on some days ago, and said Id like to show it to her. Talked about how I like getting peoples opinion on my art-work, seeing things from their perspective.

    She perked right up at this moment and said shed love to see it. Told her we could walk there after finishing our drinks. By this time Id already finished my tea so I helped her finish her beer. Then we left the cafe and walked back to mine. It was only a two minute walk. Back in my condo, the sexual tension is still here. Now its increased because of the sense of anticipation that arises, when you find yourself in someone elses home, and this person happens to be a member of the opposite sex. She compliments the view and the rooms.

    Theres some fluff talk as I walk in behind her, pause in the living room where she is for some moments, then walk into my bedroom.

    She follows me immediately. We sit on my bed and look at a bunch of my portraits. I show her the one I was working on, a sketch of Linda Evangelista, and I asked her if I should bother shading in the hair or just leaving it white. She thought about it for a couple beats. I could see her that she was breathing pretty quickly. Anticipation’s fun. Then she said she thought it looked better in white. Told her I agreed and thought she was right. “Come sit with me.” I say while patting the spot right next to me on the bed.

    Not a moment later she was in my arms, kissing me hungrily. We made out for a while as I gradually undressed her. Moved my mouth south. Sucked on her neck and licked both nipples. Then I ate her out after a long tease. It was nice to see this innocent face start to tense with pleasure.

    Somehow through the moans and heavy breathing, she manages to pop out a question. “Do you have a condom?” she asks. “Of course.” I reply. Reached into the back pocket of my ripped jeans and slipped the latex out with two fingers”.

    that should be enough to get you started…

  41. @Palmsailor
    I’ll be there. 😊
    Will have a top-pocket handkerchief in my jacket / suit.
    E-mail for comms is in name signature.

    TantumErgo

  42. Now someone’s gonna say that I didn’t get my fingers wet, so it doesn’t count. You don’t really, really know if the drunk broad was DTF until then. Maybe the bitch was just grabbing your cock because she was bored and running your hands over her boobs and ass because they itched. And maybe she was trying to ram her tongue down your throat as part of a dare. Maybe the drunk broad was leading you on saying that she was gonna ride you all night and saying that you couldn’t leave. Maybe. But probably? Naah.

    When it comes to AF, girls are opportunistic. Even server girls. (No, the drunk broad wasn’t a server girl.)

  43. @TantumErgo

    Lucky Man, you. You get to meet up with Palma.

    https://youtu.be/MH6TJU0qWoY

    Happiness
    More or less
    It’s just a change in me
    Something in my liberty
    Oh, my, my

    Happiness
    Coming and going
    I watch you look at me
    Watch my fever growing
    I know just where I am

    But how many corners do I have to turn?
    How many times do I have to learn
    All the love I have is in my mind?

    Well, I’m a lucky man
    With fire in my hands

    Happiness
    Something in my own place
    I’m stood here naked
    Smiling, I feel no disgrace
    With who I am

    Happiness
    Coming and going
    I watch you look at me
    Watch my fever growing
    I know just who I am

    But how many corners do I have to turn?
    How many times do I have to learn
    All the love I have is in my mind?

    I hope you understand
    I hope you understand
    Oh, no no no no no no no no no
    Gotta love that’ll never die

    Happiness
    More or less
    It’s just a change in me
    Something in my liberty

    Happiness
    Coming and going
    I watch you look at me
    Watch my fever growing
    I know
    Oh, my, my
    Oh, my, my
    Oh, my, my
    Oh, my, my

    Gotta love that’ll never dies
    Gotta love that’ll never died
    No, no
    I’m a lucky man

    It’s just a change in me
    Something in my liberty
    It’s just a change in me
    Something in my liberty
    It’s just a change in me
    Something in my liberty
    Oh, my, my
    Oh, my, my
    It’s just a change in me
    Something in my liberty
    Oh, my, my
    Oh, my, my

  44. @Tantum Ergo

    I don’t know if I remember all of your narrative correctly or exactly.

    You had the Babushka thing. Mail order bride?

    Where do you stand now, and what do you need help with in going forward?

    What do you feel you could do best? What do you think is your worst that you need help with?

    1. @SJF

      Ha! Ha! Like your comment about Babushka being ‘a mail order bride?’ 😂

      You had some v e r y good advice for me, particularly with regard to my having had no frame in that relationship, as well as looking out for the red flags of someone with BPD.

      Here is the sorry tale….

      https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-118/#comment-274264

      As for now….

      :: General Pluses and Minuses

      Weaknesses: I become too emotionally attached to the women that I want to fuck, and, with Babushka, I (genuinely) fell in love with the wrong woman, and failed to establish any frame.

      Strengths: I am relatively fit, personable with a wicked and sexualised sense of humour, and find it very easy to talk to women… but I need to convert this affinity into fucking the women that I want to fuck… and on my terms.

      :: Specific Plans requiring help:

      I recently hooked up with a wonderfully slutty 25-year-old student (half-Nicaraguan); Bisexual and has openly said that she is ‘my slut’ and that she is down for a threesome. She hasn’t had a boyfriend in six months — or so she tells me.

      I have only managed to bang her once, and she hasrrecently flaked on my trying to see her again… and at the last minute.

      I think there is potential there to make her my plate, but I can’t be bothered to push it, as I don’t think that it would work.

      I generally feel that I want options…

      Any thoughts?

      TantumErgo

  45. @Tantum

    “I have only managed to bang her once, and she hasrrecently flaked on my trying to see her again… and at the last minute.”

    Why do you think she flaked? And at the last minute?

    “Bitches, take a number.” Why does this work with girls?

    You talk about plates…I hope you’re actually spinning several right now.

    1. @the asdgamer

      “Why do you think she flaked? And at the last minute?”

      She is a student and lives in the suburbs (I live in the city) with her parents and brother …. but that’s not it. 🙂 She was down to meet, and the weather on Sunday was very good where I live, and I had sold her on the idea of going to my local park and enjoying the sunshine to start with …. I am new territory for her, being considerably older, and she has previously complained that when dating boys of her own age she has felt pressured into having sex with them. That could be it, a form of ‘buyer’s remorse’ — but I NEVER exert pressure on a woman to have sex: the ones that I bang always want to. I am not talking about escalation, but rather the fact that they know that it makes no difference to me makes them feel comfortable and then arouses their curiosity to bang me.
      First-time bang was pretty good, although it took a little time for me to get her to relax; the desire was there. She also liked the fact that I told her that I would need to ‘unlock’ her, and that would require extensive repeat sessions. She also expressed surprise and delight at my staying power for an older guy.
      But … she may not be sold on this, and her flaking some 10 hours before we were due to meet is merely a shit test. I won’t pursue this, and, if she gets away, she gets away.

      ““Bitches, take a number.” Why does this work with girls?”

      Nothing like a little anxiety and competition. If girls are like cats, then you never get a cat to come to you by chasing it. Rather, you have to feign disinterest and disdain … it works a treat for cats, because you become the dangling string that they HAVE to play with.

      “You talk about plates…I hope you’re actually spinning several right now”

      Not yet, and this because I have only just recovered from my experience with the mercurial and feckless Babushka (15-month LTR), but this is now my plan:-)

  46. “she has previously complained that when dating boys of her own age she has felt pressured into having sex with them. That could be it, a form of ‘buyer’s remorse’”

    …don’t believe her bullshit about being pressured about sex…that’s just anti-slut defense talk…she wants sex and she also wants to feel like she’s a nice girl…and she’s trying to get you to believe that she’s a nice girl…

    “But … she may not be sold on this, and her flaking some 10 hours before we were due to meet is merely a shit test.”

    …not a shit test…right now, she is your only option, so you project onto her that you are her only option…think again…

    ““Bitches, take a number.” Why does this work with girls?”

    “Nothing like a little anxiety and competition. If girls are like cats, then you never get a cat to come to you by chasing it. Rather, you have to feign disinterest and disdain … it works a treat for cats, because you become the dangling string that they HAVE to play with.”

    yes, there’s the message that you are preselected, but more importantly, it tells girls that you are not needy because it is so brazenly in their face–and you can soften the blow by saying that it’s a joke when they give you shit about it–but the message remains and they will know that you expect girls to conform to your expectations and that exclusivity is not an option…

    …right now, you should be pursuing multiple girls at the same time…that’s spinning plates even before having sex with them…it gets you out of rifle mode and into shotgun mode…you project less neediness

    1. @theasdgamer

      Many thanks for your reply and helpful advice:

      https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-122/#comment-277246

      “…don’t believe her bullshit about being pressured about sex…that’s just anti-slut defense talk…she wants sex and she also wants to feel like she’s a nice girl…and she’s trying to get you to believe that she’s a nice girl…”

      Understood, and I won’t. But do I just ignore the ‘nice girl’ disguise and keep my comms with her purely sexualised? I haven’t reacted to her blowing me off at the last minute, and my inclination is just to leave it hanging while I scout for other options.

      “… right now, she is your only option, so you project onto her that you are her only option…think again…”

      Yes: I get it: Women detest a man without options. The women who have been most into me in the past have always thought that if they didn’t jump my bones quickly, then somebody else would:-)

      ““Bitches, take a number.” Why does this work with girls?”

      I really like this phrase – one to use, for all the reasons that you have given below.

      [“Nothing like a little anxiety and competition. If girls are like cats, then you never get a cat to come to you by chasing it. Rather, you have to feign disinterest and disdain … it works a treat for cats, because you become the dangling string that they HAVE to play with.”]

      “yes, there’s the message that you are preselected, but more importantly, it tells girls that you are not needy because it is so brazenly in their face–and you can soften the blow by saying that it’s a joke when they give you shit about it–but the message remains and they will know that you expect girls to conform to your expectations and that exclusivity is not an option…”

      “…right now, you should be pursuing multiple girls at the same time…that’s spinning plates even before having sex with them…it gets you out of rifle mode and into shotgun mode…you project less neediness”

      i have practical homework to do: rifle mode >> shotgun mode >> and can do so now that I am feeling less bruised from my previous LTR.

      TantumErgo

  47. @Tantum

    “She was down to meet, and the weather on Sunday was very good where I live, and I had sold her on the idea of going to my local park and enjoying the sunshine to start with”

    Ehh kinda too early for this. This is what’s known as a “boyfriend behavior (bb).” Going for a stroll in the park. With fuckbuddies, especially girls that you’ve only fucked once, you wanna follow the ‘fuck first, ask questions later’ model (opposite being the relationship model: relationship activity (dinner/movies THEN sex). Meaning: text her to come back to your place. Then after sex, you can go for that stroll in the park/go out and get breakfast if you want. By doing actions that can be perceived as bb, you start signaling to the girl that you may want to make her your girlfriend. And if she’s looking for something more casual, then she’s gonna be hesitant about meeting up with you and flake.

    Lastly:

    “her flaking some 10 hours before we were due to meet”

    Young girls are very in the moment. In that they make plans at the last minute and don’t stick to plans they agree to in advanced. Sure they’ll say “yeah totallly I’m soooo down!” in the moment, when you get them to agree to meet you two days from now. But then the day of the scheduled meet, you’ll often hear “hey I’m really sorry but can we reschedule? I blah blah excuse” (and that’s IF, she’s not one of those shitty girls who won’t give a heads up about flaking). So, if you want to meet her on a specific day, text her that evening, “what you doing tonight?” if they’re not too busy (or have to get up super early in the morning) then they’ll meet you. If they are busy, then just joke around with them for a bit, BUT don’t ask them out. Because in the following days, she will be the one to send you that, “hi! what are your plans for tonight?” text.

    1. @j

      “Ehh kinda too early for this. This is what’s known as a “boyfriend behavior (bb).” Going for a stroll in the park. With fuckbuddies, especially girls that you’ve only fucked once, you wanna follow the ‘fuck first, ask questions later’ model (opposite being the relationship model: relationship activity (dinner/movies THEN sex). Meaning: text her to come back to your place. Then after sex, you can go for that stroll in the park/go out and get breakfast if you want. By doing actions that can be perceived as bb, you start signaling to the girl that you may want to make her your girlfriend. And if she’s looking for something more casual, then she’s gonna be hesitant about meeting up with you and flake.”

      Got it … although we had a specific reason for going to the park first. 😉 But I get the message about BB versus FBB – and she is definitely the latter FB.

      “Young girls are very in the moment. In that they make plans at the last minute and don’t stick to plans they agree to in advanced. Sure they’ll say “yeah totallly I’m soooo down!” in the moment, when you get them to agree to meet you two days from now. But then the day of the scheduled meet, you’ll often hear “hey I’m really sorry but can we reschedule? I blah blah excuse” (and that’s IF, she’s not one of those shitty girls who won’t give a heads up about flaking). So, if you want to meet her on a specific day, text her that evening, “what you doing tonight?” if they’re not too busy (or have to get up super early in the morning) then they’ll meet you. If they are busy, then just joke around with them for a bit, BUT don’t ask them out. Because in the following days, she will be the one to send you that, “hi! what are your plans for tonight?” text.”

      Sound advice – and obvious to most, but not me! LOL! My problem is that I am very old school: I have never flaked on a date unless a genuine matter-of-life-and-death emergency. Will leave it a while and try the evening-before-text … if she backs out, then I will keep it light and tight and not push.

      TantumErgo

  48. ““Young girls are very in the moment. In that they make plans at the last minute and don’t stick to plans they agree to in advanced.”

    Older women are the same way.

    1. @theadsgamer
      @j

      ““Young girls are very in the moment. In that they make plans at the last minute and don’t stick to plans they agree to in advanced.”

      “Older women are the same way.”

      So what’s the trigger for this flakiness and inability to commit? Is it because women — both young and older — innately think that they might have a better last-minute option?

      Or is it a method to weaken a man’s frame and get control (a shit test)?

      I have had it in the past where some of the women I was seeing would never be on time. My response was simply to wait about 10 minutes max, and then take off without explanation. Whenever they gave me shit for it, I would explain that I had other things to do, and it was clear that they were too busy to see me, and so we should arrange another time when they could. This usually brought them into line.

      The worst offender was Babushka. She played this card three times with me and got a kick out of it. So, on the fourth occasion I cancelled on her at the last minute, knowing that she was already en route to meet me. She was never late again after that, and never flaked out when we were due to meet.

      TantumErgo

  49. “So what’s the trigger for this flakiness and inability to commit? Is it because women — both young and older — innately think that they might have a better last-minute option?

    Or is it a method to weaken a man’s frame and get control (a shit test)?

    I have had it in the past where some of the women I was seeing would never be on time. My response was simply to wait about 10 minutes max, and then take off without explanation. Whenever they gave me shit for it, I would explain that I had other things to do, and it was clear that they were too busy to see me, and so we should arrange another time when they could. This usually brought them into line.

    The worst offender was Babushka. She played this card three times with me and got a kick out of it. So, on the fourth occasion I cancelled on her at the last minute, knowing that she was already en route to meet me. She was never late again after that, and never flaked out when we were due to meet.

    If a girl flakes, it may be that another option has materialized that she thinks is better. It might be a girls’ event or another guy. Assume the latter. Sometimes an unexpected family event happens or a girl forgets about one, but those are rare in my experience. No matter what, always have a plan B in case a girl flakes.

    You enforced your boundaries with Babushka. Good for you. She was legitimately testing your boundaries. When a girl just flakes, that’s not a boundary test.

  50. @EhIntellect, @SJF,

    thanks. I want to say, after a while I think and read about these things, I’ve seen a difference in me. In the early posts, I was asking more about cheat codes. What do I do if she says X/does Y. I’ve had more of those tests, even in the last days, and maybe I’ll report – but I can see that cheat codes for a better negotiating position help up to a point.

    Having a stack of stimulus-response routines is an unnatural way to live after a while. This does not mean they don’t help, and I am with @SJF on that all the way. I’m in the ocean, and first need to know how to swim; then maybe I can learn why it works.

  51. Did yareally promote direct game or indirect game? Going though his old blog trying to get an idea of what one of his FR’s would look like, it’s hard to get a picture in my head based on the apparent conflict between some of his posts.

    When he gave little snippets into his game, and basically what ‘game’ is, he’d always write things like

    ”“YOU. Who ARE you? ” “Oh, uhh, I’m Sally?” “Well Sally, I saw you from across the room and had to come say hello. I think we’re going to have to have a million babies together.” “omg lol umm no thanks lol” “Alright, then we’ll start with coffee instead.” etc”

    ‘You, you’re very cute!! Who are you?!’ kind of thing

    That sounds direct to me.

    He also wrote about how game knowledge had advanced and now we know that assuming attraction and making your intent clear can create attraction etc

    He wrote:

    ”all the indirect guys are full of shit, pretending not to want her. The direct guy is congruent and acting in line with his desires”

    From the little info he gave about his own game, he just seemed very direct and clear in his intent….

    BUT

    He’d also quote mystery method a lot and seemed to recommend that model. He also said in one of his posts

    ”This is why I prefer indirect over direct game” and in another post (that I can’t find at the moment unfortunately) he actually kind of mocked the idea of going in direct on a hot 9 in a club. Like I say, I can’t find the actual post, but it was something like ”all the guys are using ‘hey. I noticed you and thought you looked cute and wanted to say hi’ – Yeah, that might work on the 6 at the bar, but trying pulling that shit on the 9 and you’ll get laughed at’ ” (not a direct quote, but something like that!)

    So i’m not sure if the apparent contradictions are a result of things like standards of girl/environment etc, or maybe he just changed his mind and the various quoted posts are from different times

  52. @j

    Wow thanks a ton for that post. I have read it thoroughly and went out and tried that style of daygame today. Will write about what happened. Maybe you could analyse it. Will go out tomorrow as well to try it and write my observations together. Thanks a ton!

  53. @ford

    lol. believe it or not, this is actually one of the most frequently asked questions by rookies in multiple forums/blogs. so don’t feel bad about being confused. I’m sorry YaReally didn’t do a good enough job of explaining when to go indirect/direct. Or what those each style even looks like besides specific opening lines.

    So first, you’ll want to know what PUAs actually mean by running “indirect” game.

    Here’s my (username: Velasco) comment on indirect game:

    https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/night-game/332404-direct-and-indirect?p=332422#post332422

    (be sure to check out page 2 as well and read @skills360 and @Logic&Reason’s comments).

    Check out this really good quick 5 min clip by Todd V explaining the difference between ‘intent’ and ‘premise’:

    and then finally, I made a separate post on what determines if one should (and why) go indirect or could just go direct:

    https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/night-game/332441-the-fuck-threshold

    @Gamenoob

    no problem. and looking forward to it!

  54. FR for yeareally (although It doesn’t look like he posts here anymore)

    First open (me and 3 friends) was on 3 girls sitting down. I was just like ‘hi, I’m ford’, and then one of them was like ”Sorry, we’re trying to have a private convo” and more or less blew us all out. Tried to get them to talk for a few seconds but they weren’t interested

    Next open was on 2 VERY hot young girls. Like solid 9’s. My friend opened this set and was like ‘hi, how’s your night going?’ and he got a brutal ”you can fuck off!” from one of the girls! haha. I don’t like seeing others fail, but it made me feel good because I get lots of these reactions and tend to take it personally, but it makes you realise that it’s just the was it is and not your fault.

    After a few mins of awkwardness as we talked among ourselves he went back in and basically called her out on being rude and shesaid they were going through some drama. She then went off somehere leaving her gorgeous blonde friend with us where we found out they were arguing because some handsome stud at their work has been banging them BOTH behind each others backs! Lucky sob! They were both crazy hot. She sat with us for 5mins or so whilst we attempted to chat with her but it didn’t go anywhere. I tried teasing her and making cold reads and disqualfying myself and her etc, but I think Her mind was on the situation with her friend and on this handsome dude and it didn’t go anywhere.

    Then I opened a girl after being gifted a situational opener (most natural openers!) In this instance, the ‘event’ was some girl just fell over on slightly raised brick in the beer garden. I opened the fairly cute girl near me and accused her of tripping the girl up and she laughed and then she realised she recognised me from like 10 years ago at a party so we started chatting and I then was chatting too all of her friends too and making them laugh and stuff. Then one of the friends invited me to come with them to the next bar. I said i’d maybe see them later

    Left that bar and got chatting to 2 girls giving out fliers. I opened her by offering her a ‘free hug’ lol. Just self amusing. We cuddled and them we just started chatting. I asked what the fliers were about and she mentioned the club down’ the road. I told her i’m too old. She said ‘no you’re not!!”‘. I asked how old they were and they both JUST turned 18. I’m like 30. Then one of them said she’s been banging an older guy for the last year or 2 (fuck buddy. Not BF). After a few mins I left but un hindsight I wish i’d have tried to get one of their numbers. I didn’t really sense any interest though (I can usually tell by her eyes) and a number from a hot flier girl at night wouldn’t exactly be solid at a guess!!! Wish i’d have at least been like ”You’re cute actually! I have to go now, but put your number in my phone!” or something, just for the ref experience They were both really cool and hot

    Saw a stunner standing at the bar. Opened direct this time. She basically ignored me though. I tried to plow and made a cold read and stuff but it didn’t help. I’m told plowing is usually pointless (seems that way!), but i tend to carry on trying when a girl isn’t interested out of habit, I guess! She just kind of nodded and looked away and didn’t engage at all. I ejected

    Tried the hand of God on some hot girl on the dancefloor but she rejected it.

    Bumped into the girls from earlier who seemed to like me. Only actually 1 single girl in the group though and she didn’t really blow me away. Pretty enough, but a little older than me. I really am all about young girls if i’m honest. So much hotter to me personally.

    Opened another girl but she was actually on a tinder date! Super friendly. She even approached me a little later on with her date just to chat to me lol.
    I then saw 3 girls, one of whom I kissed a few weeks back. (got her number, we text a little then she ignored me and it fizzled out). So I didn’t open her. Not just because of her ‘rejection’, but I find it so hard to know what to talk about with girls who i’ve previously ‘opened’ if that makes sense. We’ve done lots of the ‘what’s your name? What’s your story??’ stuff on the first meet, but we also don’t have the history/connection that you’d have with a friend. It’s like a weird middle ground and I never know what to talk about in them situations. Happened a while back too with a different girl I bumped into after kissing her a few week prior. Also,pretty sure these girls saw/recognised me and didn’t open me either so I doubt it would have went great tbh

    Me and my friends got opened by a hot girl asking for a lighter. We were chatting for a few mins. Didn’t necessaruly detect interest from her, but she was certainly open and friendly etc. Asked her a few things about herself. She’s an air stewardess in my town for training. But unfortunately, some gay guy (also on training) came over and more or less yanked her away from us as he wanted to go too a gay bar! It ended super abruptly which sucked as I felt more potential there than in most sets

    Not much else happened, although I definitely failed to open too many sets through being a pussy. In one bar, 2 STUNNING girls walked in and me and my friends all just froze lol.

    Oh, one more set:

    2very hot girls sitting fown outside at a table. I could see people looking at them but nobody had the guts, but I manned up and approached them which i’m happy about! I love overcoming AA!

    I open with something like ”Hey girls! My friends are being boring so I thought i’d come and see what you’re about for a few seconds”. Surprisingly good reaction.

    I sat down opposite them (we were on a table in the beer garden)

    I ask how they know each other, tease them a little, tell a few stories. Ask them about themselves etc. Make a cold read about the one I prefer. If feel it’s going kinda well although I don’t sense sexual interest tbh.

    Then some good looking dude sits down next to me. I can’t remember whether he’d met the girls that night before me, or if he knew them properly. He was cool though. It felt a bit like a double date at one point, as me and him were laughing and chatting, and we were both talking to the girls too

    One of them (dark haired) turned out to be 17!! (unreal! Looked about 23. Drinking illegally lol) I’m nearly 30. She was actually dating an old dude, though, so I decided to show more intent with the other one (who was even hotter, tbh!) She’d just turned 18; I’d already teased her more and stuff

    I got speaking to her about dating etc, trying to sexualise the convo slightly and trying to make it more man to woman etc. Laser eyes etc.

    However, at one point when the handsome dude went to get a beer, the girls started talking about him, and the 17 year old was lke ”You obviously think he’s hot! Are you gonna make a move on him?!!” and they were kind of giggling etc!

    Bit of a state drop here as I’d been the one who was leading the convo, teasing the girls, being fun etc (basically gaming) where he was a bit more shy, but he had the looks. I felt like looks won out there tbh!!

    Soon after we were asked to move indoors by the bouncer and this is where I kind of lost them unfortunately. It was just super busy and I lost them in the comotion whilst a friend was passing me a drink and I didn’t see them again

    I’m just trying to work out if I could have done any more tbh

  55. ”you can fuck off!”

    my reply: …so you’re already bringing up fucking…that’s a bit fast for my taste… [enforcing your boundaries in a humorous way]

    Option 1: …then maybe they back off and apologize and explain the situation, in which case you engage them

    Option 2: …they tell you to go to hell, in which case you tell them to have a good evening, you backturn, then waft fumes from your ass in their direction as you slowly depart, without looking at them…you get extra drama points with other girls watching you do this to hotties…they can tell that you’re enforcing your boundaries…preselection out the wazoo…

    …no matter what, it’s all good…IF you enforce your boundaries in a way that shows value…

    …funny thing is, if you run into those two broads again, they might actually wanna engage you…

  56. @ford

    “I got speaking to her about dating etc, trying to sexualise the convo slightly and trying to make it more man to woman etc. Laser eyes etc”.

    Good topics. But kind of a broad subject. What specifically were you talking to her about dating and how did you sexualize the convo? and how was she responding? it’s safe to assume, that if she was responding well to your sexual conversation (and contributing to it with more than one sentence (“oh ya that makes sense”)…giving you some good insights about her dating life (we all know girl’s favorite thing to talk about is themselves. You do this by sharing your perspective on something…going into brief descriptive detail on it…maybe even sharing a story she can relate to with some humor…then going, “do you know what I mean?” or “have you ever experienced something like that yourself (h/t Gunwitch)), she’d have been down to go back indoors WITH you when the bouncer decided to kick everyone out shortly after. A simple, “hey lets go find “handsome dude” for your friend” would have sufficed. Then once indoors, you isolate your girl to the couch after an emotional spike (spike + “lets go sit over there for a bit” (false time constraint)) or bait, (“hey you know I just noticed something about you” Target: “what”? “actually its kinda loud over here, I’ll tell you over there”) or just lean against the bar, and continuing your conversation there.

    “Bit of a state drop here as I’d been the one who was leading the convo, teasing the girls, being fun etc (basically gaming) where he was a bit more shy, but he had the looks. I felt like looks won out there tbh!!”

    He had the looks, but didn’t close his girl because he didn’t game them. Dude fucking left because he ran outta things to say lol.

    You didn’t close your girl because you just had a basic slightly sexual conversation with her. Need to do more than the bare minimum if you’re not a 9/10 male in looks and want to close stunners. Sorry mate. That’s life.

  57. Good thread by @Neils on spotting less obvious (covert dangers) bad LTR partners

    https://twitter.com/NielsKnk/status/1145617917146476545

    The dead giveaways:

    1) Dysfunctional family: If their family hates them, or is severely dysfunctional, the odds of them being a covert danger is much higher.
    2) Friends: If they have almost no friends or have no long term friends, they are much more likely to be a covert danger.
    3) Unstable: If they are always on the move, can’t keep a job for long etc, they’re more likely to be covert dangers. Forced to move around whenever exposed.

    “Make sure you have a strong network of friends and family. Your friends are much better at spotting covert dangers than you are, because they are not emotionally invested in the other person, only in you. Listen to your friends/family when they warn you”.

    1. @j

      Great post and superb thread: ‘Covert’ versus ‘Overt’ dangers:

      https://twitter.com/NielsKnk/status/1145617917146476545/photo/1

      While it would be good to avoid treading on the ‘dynamite’ in the first place by solid and selective filtering, the unfortunate truth for those of us who veer towards being AFCs, is that sometimes you HAVE to have it blow-up in your face in order learn the often very painful lesson.

      @neils makes the excellent points that 20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing, and that, if you fall in love (with the wrong woman) – as I did (Babuskha), love effectively blindsides you anyway. :-()

      Key takeaway for me is to make sure that you have a strong network of friends who can do the filtering for you. Fortunately I do … I just wilfully chose to ignore them, because I thought that I could sew a silk purse out of a sour’s ear …. Ha! Ha! 🙂

      TantumErgo

  58. J, why are you bringing up LTRs?

    Ford: “I open with something like ”Hey girls! My friends are being boring so I thought i’d come and see what you’re about for a few seconds”. Surprisingly good reaction.”

    …cuz they think you’re retarded for dissing your friends…so they think you might amuse them a little…as a court fool…not high value…

    …you should build up your friends as valuable…just not as valuable as you are…”Joe is a MMA contender…he has my back…which is why I let him buy me drinks…” [you punch Joe in the arm and grin at him]

  59. Guys, it’s the birthday of a girl I’m dating for almost a year. She’s been trying to pin me down after hearing that I got a job. What’s your opinio? Should I wish her on her birthday?

  60. Victor

    What have you done for girls in the past?

    How’s that worked?

    Google “heartiste Skittles man” and “dick in a box” for ideas…

  61. Sentient, I have bought a necklace(cheap one) for a girl once, which she tried to return but I didn’t take back.

    With this girl I’m dating, I haven’t done much monetarily other than spending a few euros on dates. But we’ve been in touch for a year and knows each other well.

    Can you send the links of those two search terms you mentioned. There are lots and I’m confused

  62. “Direct openers like that can come across as very needy and a DLV.

    In this case you bounced from one failure to the next and every woman in the place probably sensed it, plus your desperation pinged their radar.”

    If your body language shows desperation, that’s true. It all depends on your body language. I was asking several women to dance and all were declining. When two that were looks-challenged declined haughtily, I snorted in derision, backturned them, and moved on. Then I asked another couple of girls to dance. They also declined. I moved on. No big deal. About fifteen seconds later, one of the two who had just declined came over to me and said that she had changed her mind and wanted to dance with me. She was the prettiest of the lot. That girl talked quite a bit and showed a lot of IOIs while we danced. Laughing, smiling big, eyes lasered on me. The girl was wearing a wedding ring and her husband was working while she was out with her friend.

    Your body language has to show a strong frame. Rejections should be no big deal. I bounced from one failure to another…until a failure turned into a success. But then, I dance with a lot of pretty girls. Some girls come in late and don’t see it.

    One girl at a place I rarely dance at resisted dancing with me…but gave mixed messages…until she agreed to dance to show her daughter that it could be done…she couldn’t follow at all at first…then she got into it a little after I led her with my back to line of dance and she could tell that I knew what I was doing.

    Then after her I danced with a pretty early-twenties girl who has danced with me before, but I didn’t recognize her until later. That girl was the prettiest in the place.

    Yeah, just because a girl will dance with you doesn’t mean that she wants to bang you.

  63. @Victor: I remember Skittles Man which SJF linked for you.
    I don’t remember reading about “Dick in a box”, but that just instantly evokes the mental imagery required, so…

  64. @J -”What specifically were you talking to her about dating and how did you sexualize the convo? and how was she responding?”

    Just how she meets guys, what her type is, oldest guy she’s banged etc. She was responding like she was super comfortable etc, but other than that, hard to tell. I didn’t sense she was into me, for exmaple, despite how friendly and social she was. I felt like she was just one of them girls who was happy to chat

    ”A simple, “hey lets go find “handsome dude” for your friend” would have sufficed.”

    Unfortunately, the one I wanted was the one who fancied the handsome dude. And the other one had a boyfriend (but could tell that her friend fancied the shy, quiet handsome guy)

    How does your night game look? Direct or indirect?
    If direct, how do you open?

    I’m not strictly following either model (for example, I guess with true indirect I shouldn’t have shown my intent and called her cute until she showed me intent first and I felt attraction. However, what tends to happen when I try to apply that rule is that despite my best efforts the girl never shows intent, and so I don’t either, and then the interaction ends without me at least giving myself a shot)

    But then, i’m sure you’re aware of surgical pickup for example. Or Ciel. Lots of the modern PUA’s seem to run the sort of game that i’m trying too. Indirectish opener, chat be fun, tease, and then start to pepper in statements of intent (even if she hasn’t shown intent which is wrong under the old model?)
    Even RSDJeffy uses that same model so I assume i’m not doing anything ‘wrong’. It’s seems there’s unlimited ‘models’

  65. @ford

    “Just how she meets guys, what her type is, oldest guy she’s banged”

    “I felt like she was just one of them girls who was happy to chat”

    This is good stuff, but these are surface level topics. You gotta go DEEPER into these if you want the desired effect (from “happy to chat” to “wow this guy is really interesting/turning me on”).

    “Have you ever fucked someone who wasn’t your type?”

    “Have you ever met someone who was your type and you really wanted to bang him but then he turned out to be super boring? or you did bang him but he ended up being shit in bed? did you still go for him? Oh so your one of those girls who actually cares about guys personality.

    Oh you do care. That’s good I like girls like that (qualifying her). Like I don’t care if you’re hot. If you’re boring or not spontaneous (setting frames for her, on what she can do to win you over (if it wasn’t clear: by not being boring and being spontaneous) then NEXT! haha”

    “What was it about that old guy that made you want to do it with him?”…..so your making her describe that night….bring back those emotions….and because you’re the one that’s standing right there while she recalls those feelings…she will end up associating YOU with those horny feelings.

    “How does your night game look? Direct or indirect?”

    I open every girl I want with an indirect situational opener (some guys say its hard to think on your feet. but I find it pretty easy when you’re in a really good flow…a couple of drinks and opening a few guys and girls in the venue before approaching that one girl you really want). If she smiles, then she’s respective. Here I continue being indirect, BUT I start projecting sexual state with her (https://bristollair.com/2008/pua-seduction-methods/gunwitch-method-part-2/). I’ll only switch to direct if I notice her Buying Temperature is high. then I’ll get a bit more aggressive physically (I’ll move her to the dance floor) or say more sexual things than I would normally to a girl who isn’t immediately receptive + high BT.

    Example from one of my lay reports:

    We sit down talking a bit, then my wing tells me, there’s a two set, sitting behind me, to my right. I quickly look over, and see that they’re both attractive. Don’t have anything to open with, so just continue talking to my wing. Moments later, I see this guy, come in and open them. I notice his body language, (standing while leaning over, hands in his pockets) and can tell this guy is gonna blow himself out. So I’ll let him do his shit. After he walks away, I tap the blond on the shoulder, “what did that guy do wrong? (or “why did you reject him”) I was trying to take notes. I don’t know how to talk to girls” the HB7.5, loves the line. then turns her whole body towards me, smiling. I don’t know what we talk about, but I ask her, “do you dance?” She says yeah, and I ask her to get up. I knew she would, because of the good vibes, I was getting off of her.

    “Indirectish opener, chat be fun, tease, and then start to pepper in statements of intent”

    yup that sounds about right.

    Here’s a really good LR from the guy in the video

    “I’ve got a boyfriend.”
    “Cool story bro, I have a girlfriend. Hey by the way, is it true what they say about girls from England?”
    I sit down on a chair, and I want her to stand in front of me.
    temporary compliance spike, due to her curiosity getting piqued.
    “What do they say?”
    “Actually.. Nevermind, I wanna see if it’s true before I tell you.”
    “No seriously tell me what”
    “How long are you in Budapest for?”
    change topic to make her chase even harder for the answer.
    “Until Wednesday. But seriously, what do they say about English girls?”
    “Eh it’s not really important… I meet a lot of English girls with my job though.”
    .. And I run the job-curiosity routine as usual.
    She’s still standing in front of me while I’m sitting down.
    “Are you a pornstar?”, she asks. I chuckle, and change the topic. I don’t answer her question because I wanna keep building the tension. I also want her to keep that pornstar-idea of me in her mind.
    “Honestly, I really love English girls. They are so much more fun than Irish and Scottish girls! I hate them. You guys know how to have fun. Best part about English girls is that they have absolutely no bitchyness! You guys got like 0 attitude lol”
    I frame English girls as being the opposite of shit testers.
    I tell her about how I’m so sick of one night stands, and I wanna form a genuine connection with a nice, friendly girl in a club at 5am.
    At this point I’m really just trolling her/having fun. I make her promise to not judge me. I tell her my job is being a sex coach and I wrote a guide on pussy eating.
    “Oh really? What’s in that guide?”
    “Short and sweet – for men, attraction/arousal is like a light switch. For women, it’s more like a volume knob. A guy could whip his dick out and be ready to go instantly. For women to orgasm, however, they have to be in the right emotional state. You have to lead her emotional journey.”
    Her eyes light up. She loves this.
    I have a habit of spontaneously grabbing girls hands. This girl isn’t into hand holding and it feels like I keep over-escalating on her, because of this habit I keep repeating.
    To deal with this, I tell her “I know I can get a little bit excited sometimes. I’m Swedish, I can’t help it. But honestly, stop being so dramatic, it’s just hands. I’m not going to fuck your hands”
    She laughs.
    Ask her how long she’s been with her supposed “boyfriend”. One year.
    “Cool, has he ever made you cum from oral sex?”
    “Yes”
    “OK, how many times in one session?”
    “I don’t know, maybe 2?”
    They will always give you either “no” or a very low number of orgasms
    “Poor girl. You deserve so much more.”
    I tell her a story of how I broke up with my stripper girlfriend earlier this year. There are two reasons why I do this.
    First, it’s preselection – which is very effective.
    Second, I’m leveraging the contrast bias here. 2 looks a lot less in contrast to 10-15.
    “She was way hotter than me, and the only reason she stayed with me was because I would make her cum 10-15 times per day.
    Eventually, we had to break up because my jaw started locking.”
    “10-15?!? I could never do that! That’s too much!”
    “Yeah.. I guess multiple oral orgasms isn’t for everyone”
    “HAHA FUCK YOU! What do you mean?”
    “I mean.. you’re 20, right? You’re still quite young. Maybe when you’re around 25 you’ll start appreciating orgasms.”
    baiting her to qualify herself.
    “No I have had orgasms!! Just not from oral!!”
    “That’s such a shame. A nice little girl like you deserves so much more. Sometimes, I pull girls only to eat them out. I don’t even sleep with them. Just eat them out and kick them out.”
    disqualifier. It also keeps building the sexual tension.
    I keep testing her sexual compliance.
    “Do you like it when guys pull your hair?”
    “Yes I love that!”
    “Do you like getting choked?”
    “Yes!!!!”
    “Do you like getting spanked?”
    “I love getting spanked.”
    “Do you like getting slapped in the face?”
    “Ehh what?? Do girls usually like that?”
    “Yeah the past 15 girls or so I’ve slept with love getting slapped in the face. They almost cum from it.”
    “I don’t think I’m like the girls you’ve slept with.”
    She’s trying to be fucking cool.
    “Yeah, you’re probably not. The type I go for is usually super bitchy girls. You are such a nice, innocent little girl.”
    “INNOCENT?!?”
    “Hey look, it’s fine. Honestly, I do enjoy innocent girls as well. They’re great for conversation.”
    “I’m not innocent.”
    “Yeah, I know your nice girl face is just a façade. I know that deep inside there is a dirty little girl waiting to be let loose. By the right guy.”
    I lean in to whisper in her ear.
    Neck kiss – “I really wanna eat you out.”
    She says “I’m not gonna have sex with you.”
    “Yeah I know. We’re not gonna have sex. I can’t I’m not allowed to have sex with more girls this month. I’m just gonna eat you out. If I didn’t have this stupid bet with my friends, I would do so much bad stuff to you.”
    reframed HER as being the sexual pursuer, not me. I’m also further disqualifying to maintain her comfort levels, while also building the sexual tension even more.
    “What kind of stuff?”
    “Hey I don’t wanna get too explicit here in public, but it wouldn’t be pretty.”
    “I couldn’t imagine you doing anything pretty to me haha.”
    “Yeah because you have a dirty mind little girl.”
    “I’m actually a very smart girl. What kind of things would you wanna do with me?”
    This is an enormous green light for me. TIME TO PULL!
    “Seriously, right now I just wanna go home and solve some crosswords. I have an idea. Do you like wine?”
    I want the pull to be non-sexual in nature, so she can have plausible deniability and feel comfortable. Going for a pull with sexual pretense here would have risked blowing up the interaction, and there’s really no reason for that.
    “Yes, but it depends on the color.”
    “White.”
    “Yes, I like that.”
    “Okay, let’s go to mine and have a VERY PLATONIC glass of wine and solve some crosswords. I bought this super nice English crossword magazine before I came to Budapest. I’ve really been struggling with the last words. Since you’re so fucking smart, you should help me put my mind at ease.”

  66. @Blaximus

    Last week on a commercial flight a cute flight attendant put her hand on my shoulder and called me “Honey” as she
    gave me a soft drink. I was just sitting there, obviously she was so into me, and we weren’t even dancing!

    I’m so set for female companions…for the rest of my life!

  67. @gamenoob @ford @studentofgame

    Good day game infield from Alex of UMP:

    Besides his verbals (what topics he brings up and how he transitions into them. what frames he’s setting), pay close attention to his non-verbals (body language, bedroom eyes, smile (when he smiles and doesn’t smile) pregnant pauses), and fundamentals/looksmax (clothes, hairstyle, facial hair, tattoo (not really a fundamental, but nice to have a visible one so girls can ask you about it) and implement them.

  68. The struggle is real.

    Don’t dress like a bitch though….

    Where’s HABD with the ” FI’s hand on your shoulder “??

  69. “I open every girl I want with an indirect situational opener (some guys say its hard to think on your feet. but I find it pretty easy when you’re in a really good flow…a couple of drinks and opening a few guys and girls in the venue before approaching that one girl you really want)”

    “I open every girl I want with an indirect situational opener (some guys say its hard to think on your feet. but I find it pretty easy when you’re in a really good flow…a couple of drinks and opening a few guys and girls in the venue before approaching a girl you’d like to bang.”

    fify

  70. Lmao. IDGAF who’s wearing that shit. It’s feminine.

    Cookie cutter bullshit. Trends – but this shit is a feminine inspired trend. Skinny tight ass jeans, or jeans hanging off your ass with your drawers showing, all of that shit is feminine inspired.

    Plus, drop T levels a few hundred points and guys are more amenable to the feminine frame.

    Feminine Frame.

    For females.

    God help us if women start saying that clown noses are sexy.

  71. not gonna get into this gay shit…the point I was making is to not look like a slob. And take pride in your outer appearance.

    Alex for example is sporting a Tommy Hilfiger sweatshirt, powerbeats hanging around his neck, black ripped skinny jeans, pf flyers(?) and a modern hairstyle. Aka lookmaxxed.

    https://www.instagram.com/mrjunho3/
    https://www.instagram.com/magic_fox/
    https://www.instagram.com/menwithstreetstyle/

    If you don’t like skinny jeans, like if you they gay, don’t like how you look in them, or your thighs are too big for them like me, then just don’t wear them. Simple.

  72. @j

    Thanks for the video. I have reread Bacchus’s post thrice to internalize everything. I never knew about that forum. It has amazing posts, but it seems like it is shutting down and I cannot register as a new member and I am also not able to view a lot of the posts. Have you copied the great posts from on there or is there a backup for them. Would be great to read and learn from them.

  73. @Victor: I have tried some pretty much like those on the list (without having read the list before) and others that have the same idea.

    Another good one that @Palmasailor mentioned a few times is dipping a finger on a drink (preferably her drink) and flicking it to (minorly) splash her face.

    But you should really try to understand the underlying idea, not just use specific examples you read on a list!

  74. @gamenoob

    Yeah unfortunately you can’t register anymore because they’ve pulled the plug. I don’t know when the new forum will be ready. But I’ll be sure to link it here when its up. In the meantime, here’s a couple of posts, the member of the site found most helpful:

    https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/general/334805-what-are-your-top-posts-from-nextasf

    (I recommend just going through @POB and @Skills360’s links)

    And here’s a couple of more posts from Bacchus that I’ve found helpful:

    https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/general/328645-the-euro-step-attn-glow (read the comments as well)

    https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/general/327187-breaking-rapport-game-vs-connection-game-confusion-pls-help?p=327200#post327200 (his post is down in the comments. Explaining the difference between compliance and attraction)

    https://soundcloud.com/girlschase/26-daniel-adebayo-verbal-game-and-consistency – his GirlChase interview. Giving an overview of his game (part 2 is coming soon)

    and here’s another Lay Report. This time from night game. At the end of the post, he explains his strategy.

    “Got myself a whiskey coke.

    noticed a girl to my right. Engaging in an enthusiastic and loud conversation, with a less than stellar-looking female friend. “Hey. . .” Before I could finish. She turns over to me. Leaning in to hear me better. Touching my shoulder. “I think. . . we’re matching leather jackets.” I say with a smile.

    “Omg! Yes! We are. . . we’re all matching.” She says gesturing, to her horizontally-challenged friend. Who then turns around to face me. I smiled again, and introduced myself to both girls. Asked them how their night was going so far. Then when they returned the question, I dropped a version of the usual intriguing reply.

    Which made them ask where I was from. Made them guess. They were in the mood to dance, and invited me to join them upstairs. In the nightclub section of this venue. On the way up, my girl tells me that I remind her of her ex. We were of same background and ethnicity apparently. Replied by asking where she was from. She told me to guess. . .

    girls tend to gravitate to certain types of guys. Due to previous sexual experiences, and memories with these types of guys. Meaning that if i happen. . . to look or dress like her type. Then i should have, a pretty straight-forward seduction. Because she already has intimate, and sensual memories, with guys that look like me. And this means, it’ll be very easy for her to view me in a sexual light. Plus this generally. . . makes her feel allowed to fuck me. Because in some ways. . . she already has.

    Upstairs the three of us danced for a while. Spent some time with the caramel skinned girl, grinding her body vigorously against mine.

    At least until her fat friend interrupted the vibe. Then started to drag her away from me, and towards another part of the dancefloor. Typical cockblock. Decided to float off towards other prospects, and perhaps re-engage once the fattie, had found a guy occupy her attention, and assuage her noticeable jealousy.

    Bumped into the girl from before, and she greeted me excitedly. Very excitedly. We have a tension filled conversation, pressed up against a wall. Touching each other lots. She was telling me, about how she moved here from Toronto, for school. She’s a communications major, in her final year and often writes papers, on various indigenous countries and cultures. She’s pretty well traveled too. And best of all she tells me all this. With our faces and lips just millimeters, away from each other.
    Sexual excitement and arousal aside. Our conversation was mainly academic fluff. Until. . .

    “What was your name again?” She asks.

    “Bacchus.”

    “Do you remember my name?”

    “Of course. Its xyz. . .”

    “Okay. I need to tell you. . . That I’m not having sex with you tonight. I’m not going to have sex with anyone tonight.” She says.

    “That’s perfectly fine. Right now, we’re just having a nice conversation.” I reply.

    She laughed and then gave me a mischievous look. It’s all very playful and she was obviously a flirt.

    Took her hand and suggested we head upstairs. As we moved through the crowd together, she asked me. “Well, why did you have your hand around my waist when we danced. Isn’t it because you want to have sex with me?” Cracked a smile, and flippantly said everyone dances this way.

    Upstairs we started dancing again. With even more passion and vigor than before. We kiss. Hands start roaming. Until we got interrupted again. By the same friend. Decided it was time for another drink. Fast forward about an hour later, and another refreshing, whiskey coke and glass of water.

    I’m talking to a couple girls who work as hired guns, at another venue I frequent. They recognized me, we did some catching up. Now there’s talk of taking a picture together. They wave down this venue’s photographer. As I stand in between these bottle service girls, posing for the picture, I notice another familiar face. It’s the chubby girl from before. She’s finally found a man for the night. The two of them are talking excitedly, and paying lots of attention to each other.

    Meaning she’d have no reason, to keep cockblocking me. Great.

    Told the two girls standing with me that I’d catch them later. Then headed back upstairs to find the chick from before. Couldn’t find her in the nightclub section. And she wasn’t downstairs either. So, I step outside for another cigarette and an opportunity. To think about my options for the night. Started to consider the bottle service girls again. . . and there she is.

    She’s talking to the bouncer. Apparently she can’t get back in because he’s convinced she’s too drunk. Over heard her say. “I need to get back inside to get my friend. She’s supposed to sleep at my place tonight.” I interject with. “Maybe you should consider heading to xyz bar. And then you can text your friend to meet you there.”

    The bouncer echoes my sentiment. She asks me to tell her where the bar is. “Just down the road, I can show you if you like.” I replied.

    She turns to me and says I must be lying to her. I just shrugged. She followed it up with. “Do you think I’ll have sex with you if we go there?” Gave her a condescending smile.

    “I can’t let my friend sleep with that guy. I need to get back inside.” She continues. You could actually see her friends interaction, from the window in front of where we stood. Couple moments passed as we silently watched the interaction. The whale was hooked alright. . . I decided to speak up.

    “Well, they seem pretty into each other. They’re having a nice conversation. . . it looks like they have a bit of a connection, and they’re definitely enjoying each other’s company. So, really in this situation. There’s nothing wrong with them having sex, as long as they use protection. Hopefully it’ll be some decent sex.”

    “But she’s better than that. She’s better than these girls who just go around, having sex with anyone.” She replies.

    “Hold on now. I don’t think its fair to slut shame. Because sex is a natural thing. We’re both here, right now, having this conversation. Because of sex. And what’s more is this, good sex, is a wonderful experience. Plus people can have sex for lots of reasons. . . so I don’t really like to judge people for their sexual behavior.”

    “I don’t like to judge people either. But the reality of the situation is. . . it’s better to have sex, with someone you’re in love with. I’m waiting until marriage.”

    Long pause. “Aww, that’s cute.” I say finally, with a shit-eating grin. She laughs, and playfully hits my shoulder.

    “Are you making fun of me??” She asks.

    “Nahh. . . having sex with someone you’re in love with is great. Really. It’s so intimate, and it can really. . . fill your mind, body and soul with this feeling of intense pleasure. On the other hand, the whole waiting until marriage thing sounds noble. And again, I don’t judge peoples preferences. . . so by all means go for it. Like I was raised pretty religious. So I get where you’re coming from. It’s just. . . I sort of grew out of it. I think that viewpoint isn’t very practical. Its too ideological to be practical.”

    “Not practical? What do you mean?”

    “Alright. Imagine this. Lets say you meet the one. Your true love. You’ve been engaged to be married. And now. . . its finally your wedding night. You’ve been waiting for this moment. There’s so much anticipation built up. . . and the experience. . . is a complete and utter let down. Lets say that true love of yours. . . is terrible in bed.”

    I continued. ”No foreplay. No passion. None of the things you like in bed. And to top it all off. . . he comes in thirty seconds. It’s one of those forgettable sexual experiences. Do you really want to spend, the rest of your life with that person? Now I think its much better, when you like someone a lot. To to see if you are sexually compatible”

    She thinks about it for a couple beats. Then gives a passionate rebuttal. We go back and forth like this for a while.

    Trading banter and barbs, as we argued about sex and love. After several moments of this back and forth. She goes. “I know you must think I’m like a naive idiot or something. But. These are. . . just my views.” Noticed her tone of voice was now, a lot more subdued than before. Less self assured too.

    I sense she’s feeling quite brittle now. I start to wonder. . . if I had been harsh. Maybe pushed things too far.

    I reply by raising my hands in mock-defense. Then I said. “Fair enough. Now believe it or not. I actually like talking to you. But if you want me to fuck off. . . I will. No worries.” There was a pause. The rain keeps falling. Then she pipes up. “What was your name again?”

    “Bacchus. . . now believe or not. I have also been in love before.” I say.

    She bites on the bait and asks me to elaborate. Which leads to a rather emotional stimulating conversation, about one of my past relationships. It’s a story I usually tell in situations, where it seems like the girl doesn’t trust me enough. To alleviate that mistrust.

    it entails me telling a story, and presenting myself as a normal person. Who like most. Has dealt with some pain and disappointment, and was able to work their way past that. Giving her some depth to the person standing beside her. Moments after telling her the trust-building story. And an ensuing conversation, about exes, falling in love, relationships, and of course. . . more sex talk. The bouncer tells her she can go back inside. Guess he finally decided she was sober.

    Decided to wait and finish my cigarette, before going back inside the bar. By this time, it’s after last call.

    Noticed the cockblock from before, step outside the bar with a different guy. Decided to watch them for a little bit. They stopped near the entrance and waited.

    She also seemed to be trying to get into contact with her too. Texting and calling repeatedly. As the two of them waited in front of a cab. Unfortunately, she didn’t know her friends phone died. And I certainly wasn’t going to tell her that. They waited for another five or so minutes, before getting in the cab together.

    Moments later the bar starts to close up. The lights come on downstairs. And the crowd from upstairs, starts making their way downwards. Towards the exit.

    Amidst the crowd, I spotted the sassy leather jacket wearing chick from before. I bid adieu to the couple. And swiftly pulled her aside. She greeted me with an excited smile. First I congratulated her for getting back inside the bar. Then I mentioned that, if she’s looking for her friend, she shouldn’t bother because she left with a guy.

    This news visibly upsets her. She runs outside to look for them. Then turns to chat with a bouncer. It looks like she’s asking him, if what I said was true. As I walk outside the bar. Where she stands. I hear her dejected moans. “No, no, no. . .”

    Told her it really wasn’t that bad. The guy seemed nice. And hopefully they were having a good time. We start to walk in the same direction. Then she turns to me and says,

    “Are you following me because you think I’ll have sex with you?”

    Gave her an amused grin and replied saying. “Not following you. I’m just heading to McDonald’s, which happens to be this way. You’re free to join, so we can continue our conversation. You know, without the rain, pouring down on our heads.” She counters by saying. “You say that. But the reality of the situation is. You have expectations. Every guy does. You probably think that if I go to McDonald’s with you. That I’ll end up having sex with you.”

    I just say. “Well if we go to McDonald’s. I expect. . . to have a cheeseburger. And maybe some fries too. Who knows.”

    She laughs as the two of us walk towards Mcdonald’s. A playful tone remains throughout this back and forth. Conversation proceeds in a similar manner. Then would derail from topic to topic. But I show no signs of being swayed, and left no gaps in my frame. Back at the McDonald’s. We sit together, ate fries and talked around various topics and philosophies a while. Then after an extended pause. I told her that she could charge her phone at my place.

    Since it was close by. Plus she’d also be able to. . . see some of the portraits I’d mentioned moments earlier. She pulls the same card about expecting sex. Sticking to her guns.

    when pulling chicks from bars and nightclubs. . . to fast food joints like these. Its crucial to make sure that the girl does not slip into a food coma and get tired. Sure, hours of drinking shots of tequila and dancing passionately to Cardi B or whatever. . . will probably make an after hours stop for food sound tempting. However, if she eats too much or too quickly. Her state will likely crash. Meaning she will probably get tired. . . and decide to head home. Alone. To catch some sleep. Keeping this in mind. . . I made sure to eat the majority of the food we ordered.

    Just told her I don’t make those sorts of expectations, and instead I just prefer to go with the flow. Keeping things spontaneous. Then a guy taps her on the shoulder.

    I recognized him from the bar. He had been chatting up this girl’s chubby friend. My girl tossed a frame-grab his way. He took it personally. Before long, he’s shouting at her and of course she’s shouting back.

    The specifics of both arguments were pretty asinine, but I could see that the heat of the interaction, was raising her arousal levels.

    It’s quite obvious that she’s enjoying this. Which only serves to further frustrate the guy. There’s a wild smile on her face. She would stroke my thigh intermittently, as she continued to provoke and egg him on. Decided to her go on, and have a bit more fun. For a few more moments. Until our bus came.

    Till then, I ate a double cheeseburger, and watched the show. They would both ask for my input at random moments. It was pretty hilarious.

    Additionally, I saw little harm in letting the argument, continue to amp her state before cutting it short. I’d be pulling soon anyway. That actually took a few attempts, on my end. I tried a couple times. Then had to think about it for some moments. How can I go about this efficiently? After all, they were both really into their argument.

    I said a single sentence targeted, specifically, at making both of them feel self-conscious, for a brief moment. Enough to quieten their voices.

    Then after a pause. Mention that it wasn’t really that serious anyway. After which, I dragged her away, gently, while whispering something along the lines of. . . he was just sexually frustrated. From not being able to hook up, and taking it out on us. She laughs and agrees with me. Not before the other guy can say a couple lines of derogatory nonsense about the two of us. Poor guy. He was just an innocent bystander, blown to pieces by this Bonnie and Clyde of wit.

    Next the two of us hop on a bus heading back to mine. She sits with her legs spread out on my thighs, and kisses me sensually first, then passionately.

    While apologizing about embarrassing me at McDonald’s with that whole argument thing. Told her it’s no problem and kissed her again. In my opinion, this wasn’t a bad way to spend a Thursday night. Making out with feisty one. In a near empty bus. Matching black leather jackets. Without a care in the world.

    Back at my place. She immediately takes off her jacket. Tosses it on the couch.

    She compliments the room. Says it’s nicer than hers. Thanked her for the compliment, and made drinks for the two of us. We proceed to talk, drink and make out with each other. With some passionate anticipation of what’s to come. We move around the condo together. Pressing up against walls and tongue kissing.

    Moving around. Admiring at the view from the window. Then her phone rings. It had been charging all this while and finally came back on. It’s her fat friend from before.

    Recognized the voice. She calling to give updates on her night. They spend some moments talking on the phone. Apparently the fat chick’s currently leaving Mr Tonight’s place. And is in the process of ordering an Uber, straight over to my girl’s apartment. I overhear an inquiry on her current whereabouts.

    While looking at me and smiling widely. She says she’s at a friend’s house, but will meet her there pronto. I wasn’t about to throw in the towel though.

    So once the phone call ends. Before she can order an Uber to go. Before she can apologize, for cutting things short and leaving so soon. Before she can even put her phone down. I move right to where she’s standing. Put my hand behind her head and slam her against the wall. Kissing her again. Then moving my mouth down and around her neck. With urgency. She presses her body. . . hungrily against mine. She was ready.

    Lifted her off the ground. She wraps her legs around my waist. Carried her a few steps to the couch in my living room. Threw her down. Falling into each others arms.

    Where proceeded to rip each other’s jeans off. Didn’t bother taking off her top. Or fiddle with her bra. Just dipped a finger down below. And quickly acquainted my fingers and my tongue with her pussy. Realized she was already soaking wet. I expected as much. Great toe-curling sex ensues.

    Had her wrap her arms and legs around me. Hooking her body unto mine, almost like a sloth would a tree. So I could go as deep as humanly possible. Now we didn’t have a lot of time. With her friend waiting for her. But I’d say we made the most of the situation. Both of us made efforts to add to the intensity of it. Using the tools at our disposal.

    While biting and sucking on each others necks. I pounded her into the couch, with a rhythmic and passionate haste. She held on to me tightly. Running her hands through my hair, and digging her nails in. Moving her body against mine at just the right pace.

    The strategy

    Here’s how I formed the strategy. I had a good idea where each of these chicks were positioned. Which floor they were on. And even a general idea of what they were doing. At various moments during the night. And each time I re-engaged, I would quickly analyze / size up what was going on. Becoming aware of options. Then weighing them. Making sure to keep an eye on the logistical implications of each one.

    Then I would instinctively zero in. . . on the path I felt would lead her. . . to getting what she needed in the moment. Whether it was conversation wise, moving through topics, using sex talk. Spiking her buying temperature with banter. Moving her or changing venues. Or giving the interaction some heat via escalation. Etc.

    So in a way, the entire seduction, felt like a series of rapidfire chess moves or even gambles. Based solely of instinct.

    From my experiences in bars / clubs. . . most girls who go out in pairs, are generally up for SNL’s. And from my fleeting interactions with each of the two girls, I realized that the fattie was consciously aware. . . of the fact that she wanted to get laid that night. As she was giving out a lot of obvious approach invitations to random guys. So I figured she would stop being a problem some point. And this was what I was constantly keeping an eye out for.

    Plus as long as some guy was in front of her. Then she wouldn’t care about cockblocking me. Her priority for that night was sex.

    With the girl who I ended up laying, as the night progressed. I theorized that in the early phases of the night. She was not consciously aware of her desire. . . or maybe she was in denial. However she would subconsciously, seek out forms of stimulation, as she had interactions with other guys. Besides myself and the bouncer as the night progressed. Her constant frame grab attempts, and sassy attention seeking behavior, only served to cement this theory.

    So with good game. It wouldn’t be that much of a hassle. To keep her away from her fat friend. At least for a while. Long enough for the whale to get harpooned. This became my rough strategy for the night. And also it was why I made a note to develop, a discreet awareness-radar on both girls. . . including the fattie.

    That part was painful, yet necessary. I usually fade out people like her from my awareness. But yeah I took any opportunity to update this radar using peripheral vision. While looking for situational updates I could exploit. Like the part of the night where she was stuck outside talking to the bouncer. That was a nice bonus, which led to some good conversation, and me finding out about her dead phone. If it didn’t happen. I would’ve carried on with the rough plan.

    Keep the chick distracted off her phone / away from her fat friend. Until a guy took the friend home. Or until I could get the girl sold, on the idea of coming home, with me regardless. She was an overcome by passion type, and I’m pretty experienced when it comes to getting these types of girls to cut loose.

    So I felt like there was a solid chance of both happening. It was just a matter of which one happened first”.

  75. @j: thanks for the link to that interview, good material.

    @Everyone: I recommend listening to the interview. It is under an hour and several interesting verbal game strategies are discussed with specific examples given.

  76. @Palma

    “I’ve been banging her on and off since November and she didn’t even know / or even ask up to this point”.

    well yeah i mean you’re her fuckbuddy and she’s already got a bf. Why would she care about your relationship status up to this point lol. Now that you’ve shown her some provider value (in addition to your AF value), she’s thinking about potentially monkey branching.

  77. Field Report: Serendipity

    I was at my old stomping ground. I saw a bunch of old friends. One girl has a new bf and they were leaving early and she wanted a dance before they left. I saw some guys I don’t see a lot and we hung out some. Met the new gf of one of my buddies. My buddies and I were fucking around and I was giving some of them shit. I did the same with another group of buddies.

    I saw one girl who’s not a friend but follows me extremely well. Mid 20s–cold, yet sexy, like a fashion model. She’s an out of towner who used to be a regular. Yeah, I make her look good. I got her when I did a double turn and she stopped after the first turn.

    I was with another group of friends–two guys and two girls (no couples)–and I decided to give one of the guys shit. I reminded him that he told me that one of the girls wouldn’t dance with him.

    Him: Who?

    Me: Kristen.

    Him: Who’s Kristen?

    I point at one of the girls.

    Him: That’s not her name.

    Me (to not-Kristen): What’s your name?

    Her: Not Kristen.

    Me: Oh shit!

    Not-Kristen moves in to hold me and comfort me. She shoves her tit into my chest. Intimate and not pervey. We stay that way for maybe a minute and I admit dancing once with my fly open. She says that she has done that, too. I tell her that it’s hard to keep the tiger caged. I’m sure she likes me somewhat and she’s attractive but married and thus not on my menu.

    I chatted up one of the less-friendly bouncers about what he’s doing for a few minutes–pretty much a record for anybody.

    Just as I was about to leave, I stopped to see one of my friends who works at the bar who is going through tough times. Actually, I was in the middle of leaving and realized that I hadn’t said hello to him. He told me that his mother isn’t doing well and none of his friends will return his calls. I was glad that I made the extra effort to see him.

    I felt unusually good last night and today. Pretty rare for someone who’s autistic. We are usually idling on somewhat uncomfortable as we go about our daily lives.

    Serendipity–good times with friends and consoling friends going through a rough patch.

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