Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

15,699 comments on “Field Reports

  1. I’m not married, far from it, but the generic red pill advice is
    – competition anxiety
    – dread
    – continuous self improvement
    – get your finances in order for the worst
    – day to day, make decisions and be decisive

    And that’s basically all the red pill says about that.

    Player advice is that these chicks are gonna do whatever they want, so you can’t really depend on them to be consistent (and trying to micromanage their lives is its own prison).

    You can depend on you to be consistent.

    The pimps would tell you that she needs to develop a psychological dependence on you. But the dark triad stuff is usually on the wrong side of the red pill

  2. Mark T

    “substantial progress” but yet incomplete. You get no progress payments. You get paid 100% when you make the shift from beta to alpha. It’s binary.

    Right now you are in the frame battle stage. Some alpha but some beta so you get tested and sometimes you pass and sometimes you fail.

    It’s frustrating for you. But just imagine how she feels. Lol.

    To get to the end you have to get to the end. Go all in on you.

  3. Example

    ““I see you’re upset, when you are done being passive aggressive lets talk about what the problem is”. ”

    Yeah you state this flatly, seems alpha to you then, but it’s a beta statement and puts you in her frame.

  4. @ Mark T: First, Congrats. That’s a miracle like raising the dead.

    Second, she’s “shit testing” you with the cold-spells — likely she isn’t even aware she’s doing it. Trying to see if she can get you to place HER as your mental point of origin. It’s seductive because we have been conditioned to put the woman as the priority, and not practice the “enlightened self-interest” of Tomassi.

    May be enough to simply see the dynamic at play. Can then have a patience and even compassion for her without surrendering your mental point of origin; because you can only have compassion and tolerance from a rock-steady point which is non-negotiable, i.e. yourself as your own mental point of origin.

    Nothing as comforting to a woman as the man who is compassionate and completely anchored within. That’s true depth.

    Hardest thing to become though is one’s own mental point of origin. It is so drummed out of us by the time we become men.

  5. @Mark T

    Female hindbrain:
    https://media.giphy.com/media/JF5q25YdKzd4I/giphy.gif

    She feels you’re her best hypergamous option and she rationalizes it in your/her favor. She doesn’t feel it – she uses it against you and goes for the throat (little by little until it spirals out of control). Her hindbrain needs to constantly ping off the environment to see if her choice is right.

    You find your thoughts/actions wrong or immoral – and she knows…

    She makes you react to her mood – and she knows… (and learns which one gets to you)

    Part of keeping a lioness around…

  6. Hey Mark, welcome aboard.

    Great place you got your self/ There’s a lot going for you and you’re in the right place.

    Yes…you did serious dread. You have good instincts. Trust your gut. You’ve got value and she knows this but won’t tip her cards as AWALT covert in their power plays. They can’t be overt as they lose generally.

    “She will go cold over something and be passive aggressive for a week”

    Does she hide the pussy while passive aggressive? Either way you’ve got something to work with.

    Tell us more and post some specific field reports so we can get micro with what;s going on.

  7. As a spin-off:

    Wonder if the capacity to be one’s own mental point of origin is a distinct characteristic defining manhood; and that a woman simply cannot be her own mental point of origin. It’s not in her.

    It would explain a lot of why women behave as they do.

    It would explain also why a woman needs her man to have this; and why when he loses this, it’s like the North Star is suddenly vanished: her universe/security comes to an end and everything goes south. Nothing is any longer certain.

    The recurrent “shit-testing” in marriage/LTR may simply be her trying to reassure herself that the North Star is still there.

  8. “a woman simply cannot be her own mental point of origin.”

    She has her innate intersexual af/bb objectives. Getting them is a woman’s mpoo.

    Her hypergamy’s sneaky…so much so she might not realise it herself.

  9. JT

    “Wonder if the capacity to be one’s own mental point of origin is a distinct characteristic defining manhood; and that a woman simply cannot be her own mental point of origin. It’s not in her.”

    When you think of the childrenz, it’s a feature not a bug. 😃

  10. @Everyone: need some specific advice. I just number closed a gorgeous girl (high 7 to 8) that is here for a week. Managed to know e.g. what her hotel is, and when we parted I moved in and she totally leaned in herself for the kiss greeting (cheeks not lips). Also know her first name. Now the problem is, the number close was a bit prior to that and it really looks like it is missing a digit… Possibly at the end? I wanted to Whatsapp her and try to get a dinner close to her hotel today or tomorrow, try to spike more and get myself on her hotel room for some fun.

    Now my logical problem solving mind is: there are 10 options to complete the number and I can try all of them if I want. Then I wonder: did she do it on purpose?

    What do?

  11. @IAS

    Lol

    Fortune favors the bold

    Get all 10 numbers out.

    “Hey [her name] I have your silly girly thing you’ve lost on your way from [her city/country]”

    “Who is this?”

    “Lol you grabbed my ass at [place] perv”

    Etc.

    Pull their leg without wanting anything from them until something hooks. Don’t set up a date, just be playful and find out who plays along (I would! lol).

    If they ask for the “thing” just text “what’s my name”.

    Less is more. Make them work for it.

    And, dude, no dinners. A quick drink is more than enough. You don’t know them yet. Maybe they’re serial rapists and you want a quick way out! I actually tell them that… Lol

    Bounce them often – feels like an adventure and you’re leading. Momentum is your ally.

    Don’t dilute it with a date experience…

    P.S.
    Or… start a group chat and say [her name] is throwing a party before she goes back to [her city]! Lol

    http://i.imgur.com/48Wicyh.jpg

  12. Laid. 1st of the year. 9th since starting ‘game’ a year or so back

    Really not much to write in terms of an FR. It fell into my lap a little bit. She basically approached me on teh dancefloor and made it easy. I really didn’t need to do anything. (kind of how I imagine it is for good looking guys lol)
    The only thing I DID do (which I likely wouldn’t have done before discovering game) was lead hard in terms of basically suggesting we go back to her place and also being more physical once I knew she was into me. I was like ”Anyway, i’m coming back with you when we leave here in a minute. I wanna see how messy your kitchen is” or something stupid like that as she was talking about cooking or something
    .
    She was staying with her sister for the weekend so we banged on the couch in teh lounge
    She was actually very attractive with a pretty face and a nice body, although her teeth were a bit all over the shop! I’ll give her a 6.5
    With perfect teeth, she’d maybe be a 7.5. I think she was late 20’s.

    I’m actually more thinking about the girls I failed too open, though. Annoyed with myself. There were these 2 gorgeous girls who looked like fun time girls on the dancefloor, giggling and dancing..at times, dancing near me and I wonder if it could have went somewhere, but I just didn’t have the balls. Confidence is still low in general at the moment, especially on the dancefloor as the last few times i’ve done dancefloor approaches, i’ve been getting killed every time. EVEN WHEN the girls seem to be giving me IOI’s! So i’ve been kind of avoiding them now, I guess.

    I also failed to open this group of 18 years olds sitting in a booth in the pub- one of whom I recognised from working in the coffee shop near where i used to work. Super hot. Just big groups of 18 year old girls ain’t easy!

    The only other set worthy of mention was one that my friend actually opened (for once!). 2-set. One girl an 8, one a 5.
    I started talking to the one I liked after first chatting to the other one. Also got chatting to a stranger who recognised me from last week which gave me a litlte bit of social proof I guess. I Made the hot one laugh a bit. Chit chat about her job and teasing her about it and stuff.

    I tell them we’re gonna dance and that they should come, and they agree. Cool!

    We are all dancing and the vibe drops a little.

    In these situations, I tend to lose the set and then wake up thinking ”I should have at least made some sort of move! Showed some clear intent as you never know!” so that’s what I did!
    I pulled her towards me and said some shit about her being hot or whatever.
    But she never really seemed to take the bait and didn’t really give me anything in terms of clues.
    Like she didn’t push me on the subject/ask me any questions etc etc. Not really trying. I guess she wasn’t actually attracted.
    We lost them soon after.

    But yeah. Got the monkey of my back for this year, now lol

  13. @IRL: thanks. I tried that (5 mins of entering the 10 variations) and none of it seems to be a valid number, or she lied about using WhatsApp (I asked after getting her number and told her I’d send her a message).

    It is strange, it really seemed she was into me, strong prolonged eye contact, the greeting at the end… But it really looks like she made up a number on the spot… It has the correct country code, but doesn’t continue to the first digit of that country’s mobile number, and has one digit less than it should. I also tried putting an initial digit (just 2 options) for what would look like a valid mobile from her country of residence. I handed my mobile to her for her to enter it herself (my preferred method) instead of reciting it to me.

    It is conceivable she made a mistake, but really looks she didn’t want to say “no” and made up something on the spot (the last 4 numbers she entered were “8886” so maybe she ran out of imagination and repeated the 8s LOL), which I’d say is pretty shitty to do but that is girls. Does this usually happen when number closing?

    It is a shame as the logistics would be very good. I’m not unhappy though as I opened, vibed a bit and had the balls to get her name and ask for the number.

  14. @scars

    “There were these 2 gorgeous girls who looked like fun time girls on the dancefloor, giggling and dancing..at times, dancing near me and I wonder if it could have went somewhere, but I just didn’t have the balls.”

    haha I’ve been there man. It’s hard cause you have a guarantee but if you ditch her for one of the hotter girls, there’s a possibility it might not work out and then you lose your guarantee and then you’ve got nothing. What helped me with this was a year ago, I was winging with a 6 year game veteran (this is my 4th year). We had a couple of 7s hooked, like it was pretty much a done deal and then he turned to me, “hey you want to ditch these and keep looking or stay. Up to you man”. Like this guy was totally cool passing up these 7s to keep looking for hotter girls even tho we might not find hotter girls, when we had a guarantee lay. Aim higher. It’s something that has stayed with me to this day.

  15. @IAS

    Don’t worry about it. Good thing you pushed it forward.

    Next time: no numbers, just instadates. Move her to the nearest coffee shop or so. Or go with her a few blocks before parting ways.

    If no instadate (but not because “umm I prefer dinner”), only then go for a number and text something quick then and there. Keep talking, the number doesn’t mean the end of the interaction.

    Good luck!

  16. @IRL: we were both coming from the airport with luggage. I actually didn’t see her in the plane but it is possible I DHV’d with her watching. I saw her at the checked luggage belt and opened her, then my luggage arrived, said goodbye and I split as I had to do something at the airport. I looked back and saw she was heading to the subway and cursed for having to do something at the airport, but then I actually got to the subway before she did (I already had the ticket), so I re-opened her and we traveled together for like 20 min, so I DHV’d a bit more, did something to spike (forgot what) and number close then. Now that I think about it I didn’t kino her much, just strong eye contact which she held and I think I touched her arm. Then I lead her around a bit and she wanted to stick with me (like I told her once she could take the escalators and she just came to the lift with me), in the lift I said goodbye, moved in for the kiss greeting and she distinctly leaned forward very quickly to indicate she wanted the kiss greeting), then she was even getting off on my floor so I told her “No, this is my exit, you need to go up one more”. She kind of shit tested me then saying “Have a nice workweek… I will have some work and some fun” (because she is visiting the city I imagine). I laughed and told her “I have fun whenever I want”.

  17. @Sentient: I had my phone already in hand. I spiked her a bit with something (made a joke or qualified her or something), opened contacts and went “So what is your name?” she tells me and I type it in. I show her, not correct spelling, so I put it in her hands. She fixes it, passes the phone back to me. We talk a bit about the name (I notice she never asked mine), she mentions her sister name and I still have the contacts open, so I go “Can I have your number” and put it in her hands again and she dials it in.

    Told her I’d contact her next time I’m in her city, and we can meet up.
    Then I asked if she used whatsapp and told her I’d send her a message.

    The goodbye thing I described above was after this.

    I agree instadate would be much better but we were both lugging around stuff… Still I could have made the move to go with her to the hotel and ask them to store mine while we go out…
    Also I guess right move with the number is to just give her a ring right there, or is that chasing too much?

    I’m overthinking it, there are more girls around to open (and close), but I haven’t been able to avoid wondering if she actually made some honest mistake and is wondering why I don’t message her :/

  18. @IAS – good work. I don’t think you’re overthinking it. Details are important until you internalize the principles. You don’t want “paralysis by analysis” in the moment – just take action, but when doing your FRs and reviewing later, the details are crucial.

    PS – My February Blitz starts tomorrow. There are plenty of malls here in the Big City, but I’ve been told about one an hour away which is apparently very good for day game. Limiting beliefs gonna get shattered this month.

  19. IAS

    It’s ok to analyze as long as you aren’t getting stuck or avoiding new opportunities.

    Based on this:

    “I still have the contacts open, so I go “Can I have your number” ”

    Seems like a soft number close. Didn’t see a lot of IOIs in your FR. Since you were both going in the same direction that can be discounted. Lack of sexualizing too.

    You know enough now you can afford to sloooow down and put the pressure on her to chase/step up. Try next time to keep DHVing until she wants to exchange numbers, or try ijjjji’s method of putting out hooks she can invite herself along to.

    Of course even then she can flake… 😃

    Instadate keeps the most control onnthe situation.

    On to the next dozen…

  20. IAS

    Airport example of above forcing the number on you…

    https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-28/#comment-204165

    She is biting her lip. Has a goofy smile forming. I’d say something mundane, like she asked if I had my car here and she qualifies to my yes with “oh nice great. So convenient.” And Im like yup.

    But the bubble is formed… Its strong. Been like a 10 minute or less walk. We get to the terminal entrance, she has a checked bag and a rental to get. I am going to the garage. She say s “well i guess tgis is where we part”… I say I guess so. Still close to her. She says ” can I be so forward to give you my card?”… I say sure go ahead. She says “please call me when you are back in ( city we came from where she lives), I’d love to get together.”. I say sure.

    She is all trembly and eager. Could have made out right there… Could have pulled her to my car… She wants to give me a hug goodbye. She comes in, hugs me… Runs her hands over my shoulder and down my bicep, kisses my cheek… Which i turned towards her. No idea who might be watching. We seperate.

    She says “my god… I don’t even know your name?” With ddb eyes and a goofy smile. I chuckle. “Sentient”. She says “Goodbye Sentient”. And gets on the escalator.

  21. Sentient And Having A Bad Day

    I see you’re posting so I wanted to ask a quick question including to you and all the other dads.

    My son is 6. I posted about taking him on a father-son trip last year and received some great feedback here.

    He’s not very academic and is late to reading and writing, but he’s extremely high energy, he’s a good looking kid, popular in school and very charming and very socially astute and clever with people. He is very good at getting his own way and knows when to be charming. Extremely strong “frame” as I understand it.

    He is in trouble at school and at home and it’s been getting worse over the last year. Other than me (and his grandfather, my dad, who is great but a total beta – oh and his sports coaches) he pretty much has no masculine influences. His school and day care and babysitters are all female.

    He’s always had a temper but it seems to be getting worse and he seems to have no handle on how to control it. I know he’s six, I don’t want to apply adult standards to him, but I wasn’t anywhere near that volatile at his age and don’t know any kid who was like that. It’s like he gets angry about something – it could be justified or unjustified – doesn’t really matter but it’s like he gets taken over by emotion and rage and flips out – can be crying, tantruming, shouting, hitting..anything. I’ve tried telling him to count to ten, and he does do it sometimes but mostly he just forgets it until he calms down. He also just completely ignores anyone he doesn’t want to listen to and blanks them. As in not listening to them or not registering anything said to him. He does it less with me and his mom.

    The last thing I want to do is break his spirit and force him to be a beta rule follower. I want him to pursue what he wants and do what he desires. But he needs to understand that he is entitled to make his choices but his actions have consequences. He’s just started to get to the age where I can explain that to him, although he doesn’t fully understand it yet.

    Last year he taunted a bigger boy and that kid was patient for a while but eventually he punched my son and knocked him down – no harm done, they made up immediately and are still friends. That’s kind of what I mean – immediate notification that consequences exist, in a way that no amount of lectures from dad can achieve. He just doesn’t have that kind of feedback very often. He does a couple of individual sports which help and he loves those and he’s started competing in one of them – I may put him back into soccer or baseball, both of which we stopped because he was getting over scheduled.

    And learning to control yourself and developing self-discipline is an absolutely core part of learning to be a man. I’m struggling with how to find the balance and how to get through to him. Symptom of the same thing is that it is very difficult to get him to concentrate on anything for more than a few minutes. There are some things he likes where he will concentrate, but it is rare.

    Just in the last couple of weeks, he’s punched and kicked two different babysitters on two separate days and smashed their phones for essentially no reason – because they were trying to get him to stop playing and eat dinner.

    My wife and I had a meeting with his teacher and she said he’s being disruptive to the class and not following instructions and spitting at the other kids and things like that..apparently the other kids are complaining he’s being disruptive. I asked who, and they wouldn’t tell me all the names, but they named one girl and I got the impression that the other complaints may have been busy body girls who were the teacher’s pet too.

    One day when I went to pick my son up at school, a boy same age as my son came up to me and asked “are you [son’s] dad?” He wasn’t one of my son’s friends or names I hear often. I said “yes” and he complained that my son had kicked him and I told him I’d have a word with my son and if my son did that again, he had my permission to kick him back, at which point one of the girls standing nearby jumped in saying “we’re not allowed to do that – he has to complain to the teacher if it happens”. Later, I asked my son about it and he freely admitted it and said the other boy had started it.

    He listens to me. Probably not as much as I’d like, but more than with anyone else – he also listens to his mom but a little less than me. He just doesn’t care what anyone else says. Mom defers to me a little bit in discipline and asks me to talk to him when he does something serious starting to do it more often although we have plenty of frame battles where she says I give him too much freedom or say inappropriate things to him.

    Perhaps he needs more father/son time? I travel a lot for work but when I’m at home I see a lot of him. I see him at home, and I take him for one of his sports but I think perhaps he needs some more activity with me, something to burn off even more physical energy, like when I taught him to ride a bike last year – amazing father-son bonding time incidentally.

    I’ve talked to him. When he’s calm and not in a rage, he knows he shouldn’t do this stuff, but often I feel like he’s repeating responses by rote – there’s no real emotional impact or realisation. He only cares if I tell him he’s going to be punished with something specific, and then it means he doesn’t do it for intrinsic reasons. For that same reason I’ve stopped making him apologise if he doesn’t mean it. I invite him to do it, but if he doesn’t then it doesn’t. And even if he does understand, it just vanishes the next time he’s in a rage.

    PS – Things getting better with the wife, but slowly. Frame battles continue but I’m getting better and handling it. I took her away for a weekend without the kids. First time in a long time. I suggested and organised the entire trip and she wanted to go but she kept throwing up objections about why she couldn’t come – kids, work, all of that. I just kept saying “you’re coming – we can work out the child care”.

    And we did go, and we had a great time. Good sex both days, initiated by her the second, she was naked the entire time we were in the hotel room, because she knows I like it when she walks around naked. Just generally had fun in a new city and I planned all of it and she enjoyed coming along for the ride. Some minor frame battles and fitness tests but not too bad. Couldn’t stop thanking me on the way back about how much she enjoyed it and how glad she was she came and how it reminded her how much she loved me and all that.

    So I just need to keep it up – especially the leadership angle and making her come into my world. It’s just much more difficult to do now we’re back in the daily grind of home and work and children…..

  22. @TheMarquis

    Welcome back.

    How does your son’s average day look like? Talk us through that.

    How much of your time does he have? Is it quality time or frustrating routines when you’re tired? Is there anything you do together and BOTH enjoy?

    My son (7yo) and I share the same sense of humor, so there’s a lot of ball busting and pranking (both ways lol):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sQFx_e_0jc

    Also, I give him more and more responsibilities that make him feel like a young man.

    At the same time, there are certain things that have to be done. I don’t compromise on that. He knows what my expectations are and is aware of the consequences of failing to meet them.

    Actions not words. People communicate through their behaviors and the ways they react, not by yapping, negotiating, begging, threatening, mansplaining.

    A mixture of fun, stepping up and just getting it.

  23. Marquis

    Good stuff on the trip with your wife. She is the same person when you are home you know, you just need to be “that guy” from the trip… 😉

    On your boy – you’ve got a lot of work to do. His behavior is a reflection on you and for that reason alone you need to put an end to it. Sounds like he needs more discipline, immediate consequences. Spanking.

    Until he gets it. You got to push him past the point to when he gets it. So he knows he has to deal with you when he does something you don’t approve of and he isn’t going to like that option.

    You are not his friend.

    I’d balance strong discipline with strong rewards, number one reward being your time and attention.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of having him stick up to bullies and all. But sounds like he is starting to get out of control here. and it is only going to get worse when he gets bigger.

    Time to step up. Yeah you are thinking your wife is going to go nuts… that’s part of why you are here in this situation.

    Good luck.

  24. “listen kiddo I’m not your best friend, that’s your mother’s racket. I’m your father. I tell you when you screw up.”

    Right out of the Dr. Laura Schlessinger’s playbook.

    The father is there for discipline the mother is there for unconditional love. Even if the mother and father are playing the old good cop/bad cop routine, it is still a proven complementary parenting thing that is necessary.

    The problem is that puts you as the bad cop and makes more work for you. Don’t resent that. Don’t get angry or be in any stage short of Acceptance even if it takes you a while to get there. (Not being butt-hurt is a superpower.)

    The trick is Marquis, you have to discipline him without suppressing the six and seven year old Spirit out of the boy.

    He doesn’t know how to discipline himself. And you have to set limits and do the discipline. In simple terms, you have to redirect his spirit and his energies. Instead of kicking girls and hitting boys, he is better off redirected into kicking soccer balls (or footballs) and hitting baseballs. Or whatever redirecting his energies you can think of.

    Self discipline without suppression or he will defer to self self suppression and resent the hell out of it in the future. (He’s going to go through the school suppression meat grinder they call school for boys to men over the next ten years.) He needs an outlet for his energies. Don’t shut him down at every turn.

    It’s not a paradox of fatherhood. And it is a learned art. Jordan Peterson talks about this a lot. The little kid is going to carry this around for the next ten years as his powerful shadow self. He can’t just turn it off and suppress it from now till he is 17. Or he’ll turn into either a psychopath (if he is not successful and directed discipline) or even worse, a pussy (if he is entirely successful at suppressing his drive and his spirit). He has to integrate it (misbehaving, hitting and kicking) into his dominant functions and be more well rounded as he becomes a teenager. Best do it before puberty and manhood.

    This is what 7 year old boys do when they aren’t convinced of the value of discipline. At six years old he’s just trying express himself.

    And the better you and his mom can have a healthy relationship, the better he will trust your discipline with mom’s role and your role, once again being complementary.

    Good Luck!

  25. I just shared these posts with my wings. Might as well share it with you guys.

    Mystery Method Vs ACC (Arousal – Comfort – Close) Method

    “Mystery Method limits your approach to Game in general as it focuses on “negs”, “DHV” and “building rapport”. In comparison, ACC approaches pickup with an emphasis on “intimate proximity”, “physical escalation”, and “isolation” so intimacy is created without the need for attraction.”

    http://pickupdaily.com/2018/01/31/mystery-method-vs-acc-method/
    http://pickupdaily.com/2018/01/10/attraction-vs-arousal-pt-1/
    http://pickupdaily.com/2018/02/01/attraction-vs-arousal-pt-2/

    I think this style is most effective in the 2nd half of the night. Kinda looks like what I do to get fast lays.

  26. ” Here’s proof: if isolated yourself and a stunning supermodel, both butt-naked, on an island with no hope to escape, it wouldn’t take long for sex to happen”

    So how come when Aziz isolated that chick she didn’t bang him? Because she had a chance of escape?

  27. Part 3

    http://pickupdaily.com/2018/02/06/attraction-approval-seeking-vs-arousal-pt-3/

    @WIA

    Aziz didn’t bang her because of his uncalibrated needy “please.please.please” behavior. But even still, she was aroused enough to suck his dick because they were isolated.

    The key is to understand the ‘isolated island sex’ thing because that allows you to lean back and take the pressure off you and her (law of state transference). RSD Max calls it the Fuck Faith Frame. “Male and female are meant to attract each other. Sex is the most natural thing in the world.She’s a female. I’m a male. There is gonna be sex”

  28. Hey guys I have noticed something recently that I kind of am not able to understand.

    I have this friend of mine who is around 5ft 7 slim and a pretty good looking guy. He doesn’t have any idea of Game and the Red Pill but he is extremely confident, assertive and goes for what he wants without any apology. He is amazing when it comes to women and is always fucking gorgeous women. But the thing that perplexes me about his success with women is that, he is sexually submissive in bed and is big time into female domination and he speaks about it openly and candidly.He is into getting spanked, choked and a lot of other submissive activities. He prides himself on his ability to seduce beautiful woman and then turn them into Doms who do whatever he asks for in bed and sometimes even manages to get videos and photos and shows them to me.

    What I have read from Red Pill theory and experienced about female sexuality and women’s mate choices is that they are always looking for dominant men both in general life as well as in bed.I find that most women want to be dominated in bed by a man they perceive as truly Alpha and don’t enjoy being dominant while having sex. However, my friend’s tremendous success with women while being ultra submissive in bed is something that I am not able to understand. I did ask him once whether he ever switches roles and ends up being dominant to satisfy the woman and he said he does do it but very occasionally and that most of the time he gets the girl to do whatever he wants.

    Is this a situation of a guy being really Alpha in life in general, which causes women to be so aroused that they are eager to do anything he wants to please him including indulging in all his fetishes? Another factor is that he trains Jiu Jitsu (and so do I) and he could if he wanted to dominate all the women he ever gets with. I wonder if this fact make the women feel that he is strong and that if shit hits the fan he can protect them and that he isn’t weak or actually submissive and hence they don’t find his submissiveness in bed off putting and are happy to go along with it.

    Would love to hear you guys’s thoughts on this!

  29. @j – looks interesting, thanks will read it today.

    Also – shoutout about the Farnam Street blog – since you linked it a while ago, I’ve been following his blog and he posts great stuff. I just bought the Operation Kronstadt book about First World War espionage mentioned in the latest post (the real life protagonist pianist turned spy in Russia sounds like a great example of Sentient’s DPA).

    Oh and Sentient – I still check out the Sebastian Pritchard Bastiat Blogger once a month or so, but unfortunately he hasn’t posted anything in years..(however the Hedge Fund Gigolo look is now one of my three standard styles of dressing, depending on where I’m going and what my work schedule for the day is – a) business suit professional look (for when I’m going out from work); (b) Hedge Fund Gigolo – going out, but to higher end places and nice bars; and (c) *nice* jeans, fitted tshirt, biker-style jacket, sneakers (for the kiddie clubs and day to day moving around).

  30. @j Salute! Good explanation.

    @Gambler

    Your question sort of answers itself

    “I have this friend of mine who is around 5ft 7
    – slim
    – pretty good looking guy.
    – extremely confident, assertive and goes for what he wants without any apology”

    Where most guys are trying to please others, scared of what they want etc – your dude is not.

    The personality and behavior draws them in and keeps them on the hook.
    As YaReally was fond of saying, paraphrasing the Joker,

    Nobody panics when things go “according to plan”. Even if the plan is horrifying!”

    Game is about understanding human psychology and applying it to your everyday situations to get what you want out of it. Every president we’ve ever had is a master of the game. Every CEO, Military General, Leader of people is a master of the game. Whoever you name, I can come up with folks that are as qualified or more qualified on *paper*. But only plebes play the paper game. The real action is with leading people.

    So your friend just taps into that rich vein of real life.

    They like their little mischief, they like being bad, and if they can cause pain and not deal with the consequences – they’ll do that too. She can be guilty, just as long as she doesn’t *feel* guilty.

    Further, chicks secretly and not-so-secretly love kink. (again, because humans love kink) And it’s not even “kink” to them, because they’re not wedded to this “orderly” society thing – because of life experience. If she can get a grade changed by flirting, get out of a ticket, get some random guy to move a grand piano, nag her way into things – pretty much all that stuff “we” talk about is a bunch of bull. She’ll use it to her advantage, and get rid of it, when it’s not.

    The lesson to take away from your guy is to be “extremely confident, assertive and goes for what he wants without any apology”.

    The fact that he’s slim, short, and into being a submissive isn’t the important part.

  31. Thank you to the men who commented about the situation with my son (SJF, Sentient, IRL – I don’t think I missed anyone).

    The main takeaway I am getting from this actually clicked when I read the comments along with the second part of my post about taking my wife on a successful trip away.

    I really need to do with my son what I did with my wife on the trip away – I need to take responsibility, shoulder the burden and DO what needs to be done to get my son back on track, just as I took responsibility for making the trip happen and made all the key decisions and arrangements. Of course my wife will help – she did little things on the trip too – but it is not a joint decision making parenting council with my wife. I need to step up and lead and fix the problem and if my wife has input that makes sense, I will listen to her, but she needs to support me.

    It will be harder than with the trip, because she feels like the final authority in many ways on children – I had a post about this sometime last year I think – but the principle remains.

    I need to step forward and DO responsibility and make it happen, whatever it takes, just like with the trip. Not some amorphous joint responsibility parenting thing.

    On the specifics. Clearly his behaviour needs to be changed (apart from anything else, while I’m doing okay with money, replacing two iPhones, one for each babysitter, and one was an iPhone X, really stung, and when I told him, he said “you can just go to the bank and get more money”)

    IRL – you were talking about being playful and still having expectations that you enforce. I (try to) do this and it works to an extent but only an extent. He’s better behaved when I am around in person, and when his mom is around, but to a slightly lesser degree. The problem is it is often still a struggle – I have to keep my metaphorical foot on his neck and can’t ever relax. For example, if he’s in his sports class and ignoring the coach and walking around spitting bubbles at the other boys and the coach doesn’t have the authority to stop it, which he doesn’t, then the mere fact that I’m watching isn’t enough. I have to actually shout out to him and put him back on track. Every single time. And he’ll do it. But it’s exhausting and draining for me, and he’s clearly not learning.

    It’s always like that. If he has 100% of my attention all the time, then it works, but I can’t take my eyes off. Another example: morning ritual. There it’s more likely to be mom, but same principle. He tends to go much wilder if one of us is not around.

    As for the daily routine, I am not much of a morning person, so I don’t do much. It’s mostly his mom. Depending on how late I went to bed, I may sleep through it or be up drinking coffee at the kitchen table. If mom is travelling on work – maybe a week a month – I do the school pickup a couple days and grandparents do the rest. Otherwise mom does it. Afternoons and evenings, it is a combination of grandparents/mom/childcare/afterschool activities, except I religiously take him to a sports class two days a week. I mostly just watch him but both of us enjoy that. The best part of the day is when I put him to bed 5 nights out of 7 – some days I get home too late, but on good days, we have dinner together and I put him to bed. We sit and tell each other stories in the dark and talk about the day for 20 minutes.

    Weekends is more time together for the entire family. Usually I get some work/personal time for myself on Saturday but the rest of the time is an entire-family whirl of play-dates, lunches, birthday parties and that sort of thing.

    Of course this doesn’t apply when I’m travelling on work – then I Skype almost every day, but that’s it.

    The key points I am taking away from this are:

    1. Immediate consequences like spanking need to be implemented for bad behaviour. He’s very rarely spanked, but I frequently take away iPad/TV privileges and things like that. That does work to an extent but I wonder if it is not immediate enough, plus then it just becomes a transaction, and on occasion he has made a rational decision that he’d rather take the punishment than correct whatever behaviour he is to correct – like not eating his vegetables. At that point I’m left with nothing except to allow it because I’ve painted myself into a corner. I need to teach him to internally want to do the right thing, or at most because he fears my disapproval – not because he wants to avoid loss of TV privileges or other direct external losses, if you men see what I mean.

    Sentient I don’t quite understand what you say about pushing him with immediate consequences till he “gets it” – are you trying to address the point I made in my previous paragraph?

    In effect, it sounds like you’re saying he needs to see immediate direct consequences for his actions without fail every time he screws up – whether that is spanking/TV privileges withdrawal/or just me physically standing there forcing him to do what he needs to do. And I need to keep up the pressure until he starts doing it himself, however long it takes, and then ease back the throttle – unless he goes off the rails again in which case punishments will resume – and if I understand correctly, if we go through this cycle of conditioning long enough, eventually he will reach a point where the actual punishment won’t be necessary, just some kind of Pavlovian operant conditioning reflex will trigger where he responds to my disapproval and corrects himself, or even anticipated disapproval without actually needing any punishment?

    2. I note the point about the biggest reward being my time and attention, That is something that is important to him. I have occasionally used it in a negative sense – by withdrawing bedtime stories when he is in very bad trouble, but I hadn’t thought of the positive side and giving him more of it when he does well. But that’s a great step.

    3. Yes, the conflicts with the wife could potentially be bad. Fortunately, we have a lot of agreement on these particular issues with my son so she will not object to a crackdown like this. But in general, any child-related conflicts are the worst ones because she considers herself the final authority on child-rearing in a way she doesn’t with – for example – the finances, and those fights can be bad enough. She does frequently send the boy to me for a talk after he’s done something wrong, and that’s a good thing, but the vibe from her isn’t really “go talk to dad – he’s the final arbiter/authority figure/only for bad transgressions guy” – there’s some of that, but the vibe is more “I’m too upset/angry to deal with this right now, go to your dad so he can deal with it/reiterate what I’ve told you”. If that distinction makes sense.

  32. @TheMarquis

    I don’t have much time to reply properly so just real quick for now:

    Kids, like women, crave attention. So they prefer ‘bad’ attention over no attention. If you have quality time with your son and he values it, taking it away is a punishment. Arguing or telling him to (not) do something while still keeping him in the same situ is a reward (your full attention). That’s why a properly executed “time out” is so powerful.

    Also, you being playful (or giving ‘quality time’ in general) is a reward and you should NOT reward bad behavior. Don’t mix the two. Be disciplined and consistent. Show him that there is a clear relationship: cause => effect. He does this and this happens; he does that and that happens. Every time, no exceptions. Walk the talk.

    https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/37913274/mama-is-not-the-law-i-am-the-law.jpg

  33. Marquis

    “Sentient I don’t quite understand what you say about pushing him with immediate consequences till he “gets it” ”

    You got it. A few timely spankings go along way. And cosign IRL on consistency. Key to discipline. Imagine that!

    Biggest reason women suck at discipline, they go by feelz and they are up and down.

  34. Sexual Assault – Fighting the Superpower of the Feminine Imperative

    I saw this report before sitting down to dinner with the family. I remarked that this was a bunch of crap. That it was an “off-the-charts” non-proportional reaction to an action.

    Police Report:

    On [Date], at approximately [afternoon in broad daylight in a safe neighborhood] a person reported to local police that while walking in the [Numbered Block of Street] they were approached from behind by an unidentified male subject who then touched them inappropriately before fleeing the area.

    An argument quickly ensued with wife, daughter, and to a lesser degree my son. They pretty much argued that the report was proper, that it was wrong, that the person should be caught and punished, and people with attitudes like mine are keeping society from evolving and perpetuating rape culture (not exactly in those words).

    I countered with:

    1. It’s not assault. It’s battery, but at least, from what can be gleaned from the report, it’s no worse than having somebody bump into you on the street. (Are you filing a police report?)

    2. It’s not sexual, or at least it doesn’t sound sexual. It sounded like some guy pinching a girl on her behind and running away. I argued that in Rome, where such conduct is common, there would be a lot of men in jail.

    3. If caught, what should the punishment be?

    4. If a woman isn’t tough enough to handle a man pinching her on the behind—by saying something like, “You better run you S.O.B., I’ll kick you in your balls, blah, blah, blah; then maybe she should stay off the street or travel with a guardian as opposed to filing a police report.

    I also liked the gender-ambiguous plural “they” instead of what is understood as “she”.

    @ Roused – Watch out for “Horizontal Violence” from women since you are not cooperating in bringing down the Ultimate Unpunished Predator, Donald J. Trump and instead, are laughing. Come on now, the Feminist say they only want Trump–don’t you believe them?

    PS. I “found” this section again, after comments in the articles slowed down for a bit. I found them to be very inspirational. For example, I watched a video that improved my bench press grip and gave me a better pump. So, when, I read that people shouldn’t post things or Rugby11 shouldn’t post so many videos; I call BS, do what you want. You can’t know what effect anything you post will have–even if it’s only sparking a thought or action in one man.

  35. @j – I had a quick read of those pickupdaily articles on arousal v attraction.

    Isn’t he basically saying that you should do things that emotionally spike her (what he calls arousal) instead of simply standing around ticking all the socially approved boxes (looks, money, whatever) and effectively qualifying to her and hoping she gets “attracted” to you and picks you?

    I mean, sure, I agree with him, but this is the stuff that YaReally banged on about endlessly and in way more detail with better explanations.

    I feel like I’m missing some additional nuance..am I? It also sounds like he uses a dash of Gunwitch method (or what that muscle jock guy whose videos Sentient keeps posting does for screening – I forget his name) – basically goes physical early and hard both to screen her and turn her on..

  36. @culum @j

    Agree. Ya always does it better lol.

    Firstly, I don’t like his categorizing attraction as the opposite of arousal

    I think a better way of looking at is social hook (attraction) versus sexual hook (arousal). Social of course means she doesn’t want you to leave, but she doesn’t yet want to bang. At sexual hook she does.

    So simply being higher status on paper could get you attraction, but not arousal. Whereas if you demonstrate status from having girls all over you, that’d probably get her aroused.

    Demonstrate don’t explicate.

    He also gives his definition of attraction as being needy, but I don’t like that either. A girl could find you attractive, but not arousing, based simply on a throwaway outfit you had — say its laundry day so you throw on a Perfect Circle 2006 tour shirt. She went to that tour, so she opens you on it…

    You weren’t trying to attract a woman by wearing the shirt — it was just lying around. And the shirt alone isn’t enough to get her to want to bang, but it is enough to pique her interest and toss you a quick “hey I went to that tour as well” comment as she passes you by.

    I think he’s right though on showing how attraction alone, even if it is intense, won’t get you the bang, and also to focus on always moving towards sex.

    His terminology though isn’t the greatest — mainly his saying attraction is necessarily needy.

    Attraction is just looks — it gets you freebie IOIs, but aren’t enough for the bang. If you come across as try hard they are a major DHV. But they aren’t necessarily needy — like the example of the tour shirt on laundry day.

    Arousal though is where you show sexual intent. Thats where you get serious. You don’t have to have attraction to get her aroused, and can be a major DHV if you are confident to pull that off…but it could also be horrifically uncalibrated in certain circumstances…you might have to take it more slowly if you are at a church service say, or working with a shy conservative girl around her family or if her boyfriend is nearby for instance.

    That barreling towards sex and being sexual would quickly get you results, but you’d also get blown out of sets that you could 100% close if you were more calibrated. He seems to have more natural game where he just looks for the most receptive girls — that works of course — but with better calibration you could raise your conversion rate a bunch.

  37. Overall I think Mystery Method is more applicable in a wider range of scenarios (day game, first half of the night). ACC (and he hasn’t written an article about the structure of the model yet, but I get the gist) I think is better than MM specifically for the 2nd half of the night like I said in my first post. In another article titled, “Why flash game works”, he says:

    “We’re taught in the pick-up community first you generate attraction, second build comfort, last seduce, however, this is only good for committed long term relationships. In a loud nightclub, where people are there to have fun and get laid, it’s not very exciting for a girl to meet someone who will want to be friends first. Maybe she will want to be your girlfriend later, but, cautious “calibrated” behavior will make her adverse to risky adventures with a stranger. Girls rarely go home with a guy who “appreciates” their beauty or how intellectual they are, instead, it is the one who can quickly turn them on sexually.”

    So during the 2nd half of the night aka Pull o’ clock, everyone’s state is pumped up, emotions are running high, girls are DTF, I think getting in her space, with strong eye contact and escalating right away (but no making out (I really hate when I break this rule cause it makes going the pull so much harder) with minimal verbals (maybe pass a couple shit tests, spike her emotions, and talk logistics, but like no exchanging names, numbers, what do you do for fun, how was your night, work, etc) is superior to running chill attraction game and waiting for IOIs before escalating. When I look back to all the 8s-9s I’ve banged so far, none of them gave me any IOIs (maybe the saw me approaching other girls to trigger preselection) before I started escalating. And they’re among my fastest pulls to date. It was just no beating around the bush, I was just very attracted to them and had the balls to go after them, my thoughts, words, and actions were aligned.

    The goal when going out to get laid is to make it very clear to the girl that you are a lover, and I can accomplish that in a couple of minutes running something like ACC. No reason to spend an hour with her to make her fall in love with you and then go bang her (which is what mystery method was originally designed for).

  38. @hank

    “He seems to have more natural game where he just looks for the most receptive girls — that works of course — but with better calibration you could raise your conversion rate a bunch.”

    “All of these 4-Fundamentals make it easy to approach the hottest bitchiest girls in the club surrounded by friends and even boyfriends. However, this requires a mindset of persistent, relentless commitment to the interaction and no fear of approaching.”

    http://pickupdaily.com/2017/07/25/mindsets-of-game-4-fundamentals-pt-1/

  39. @IRL, Married men:
    my wife is visiting.

    First night, she arrives and I’m going to go out for some stuff and she sweetly asks me to stay. I decide to stay. I escalate, she dresses up on some new underwear she got, and we have hot desire sex (although I didn’t introduce any new moves). She asks me to penetrate her (I was fingering her, Sentient might recall not the first time she basically asks for the D instead of the fingers), then says “I need this so much” when she orgasms.

    The new underwear she got during and shortly after the N=2. I had told her previously to buy some and I’d pay for it, maybe just a coincidence that she actually went to buy it a bit after the N=2. With that and the hot desire sex, I just wonder “How do they just smell it on us” and thought things were going to improve markedly.

    Also think her ovulation was coming soon and is still ongoing.

    Then the next 2 days I just get “shit tested” incessantly, nagging style (about the house not being as she likes and stuff like that). I go out for my hobbies/sports both nights which she is unhappy about. I still initiate but get shot down, and I tell her to go to her side of the bed as I don’t feel like cuddling if I’m going to just get hard for nothing. I note to myself I’m actually not particularly turned on despite the proximity.

    I’m a bit confused at the hot desire sex followed by the vast amount of shit testing. I’m fairly sure I’ll bang her tonight but we will see.

    I really despise the nagging and it saps my desire to do nice things with her… As an example I can like going for a walk and crap like that with her, which I’m not super keen on by myself, but now I don’t want to. But for example, I was very happy to do that kind of stuff (and enjoyed it) with E-mail saga girl.

  40. Non-married guy’s perspective

    “Then the next 2 days I just get “shit tested” incessantly, nagging style (about the house not being as she likes and stuff like that). I go out for my hobbies/sports both nights which she is unhappy about. I still initiate but get shot down, and I tell her to go to her side of the bed as I don’t feel like cuddling if I’m going to just get hard for nothing”

    All that shit testing wouldn’t bother me cause I don’t give a shit what she thinks about the way I organize my house. She doesn’t like it cool. Hey that’s fantastic. Go find someone else who wants to please you and do things your way. However, getting shot down for sex, is unacceptable. I certainly wouldn’t complain to her about ‘getting hard for nothing’ lol. Since she’s visiting you, I’d put my clothes on, tell her I’m stepping out, going for a drive or something, leave and text one of my fuckbuddies. Bang her all night. Then come back home the next morning and let her take a good whiff of that fresh “I just banged another chick” smell. That should get rid of all that nagging. But hey I’m just a young single guy what do I know 😉

  41. @J that arousal link reminds me a bit of the infields (nightame) from the paid product of that ‘evolutiondaily’ dude

    To this day I find it so interesting how different PUA’s and stuff can disagree SO MUCH on almost everything, yet both get results. It makes me think that actually none of it matters. Everyone pushes their own agenda, but neither is really superior. Maybe it’s just a matter of different things being more likely to work on different girls.

    I still read lots of PUA stuff (such as this blog and forums etc) and take into account everyone’s opinions on things, but more and more, i’m making my own conclusions based on my own experiences of going out lots with friends and approaching girls.

    I kind of feel that in the early part of the night, and only really for groups of girls, a more mystery method type style is better.

    But in general, the people who I see get the best results seem to be the outrageous, direct, flirty guy. He’ll open a girl and tell her she’s hot straight away. He certainly isn’t waiting for her to show her hand first ala mystery.
    He’ll make it sexual in some way – maybe accuse her of fancying him or something. He’ll be physical. The general conversation seems to be fairly boring, AFC stuff. No DHV stories or routines etc. Instead he’s concentrating on arousal
    Now, I can’t rule out the possibility that when this works, it’s more because he happened to be the girls physical type. I dunno. But I can’t deny that these types of guys seem to do the best either.

    I’m wracking my brain as to how I banged that girl last week
    It’s a bit blur, but I think I got lucky in terms of how she gave me a very clear IOI, and I just jumped on it and didn’t play any games. I think I told her she was cute and got very physical whilst still resisting the temptation to kiss and becoming the makeout guy.

    I also had an interaction before her which was a shame as I was experimenting with giving IOI’s and she was very hot indeed.

    I’d became frustrated at myself for having so many 10 minute conversations to nowhere as Todd calls it. This was a result I think of using the mystery method thing about not showing intent until she does. Well the thing is, I never get any IOI’s from girls, and so in turn I never give any, and then what happens is they leave and I think ”Shit. I wish I would have broke the rule and just told her she was hot or something. Maybe she thought I didn’t like her? Or maybe she thought that I was just a pussy for not making the first move. Who knows if that could have gone differently!”

    And so I opened this hot girl, tried spiking her emotions, self amusing, having a chat. It was going OK ish.

    I could feel that feeling of ”Ok, this is where she usually bails. We’re having a laugh. She doesn’t hate me. I’ve NOT gotten any clear IOI’s from her so i’m not supposed to show my intent either, but i’m gonna verbalise my intent anyway as an experiment”.

    I think I pulled her towards me and made some roleplay thing on the spot and told her she was hot and that we’d have cute babies. Also threw in a mini ‘neg’ about me being the better looking partner. She laughed and was like ”YOUR looks?!!! What about MY looks!”!?”. However, I forget what happened shortly after, but I know that I lost her. I can only assume she was never actually attracted, but I still plan to do this more to see how it effects results at all.

    Looking for my 10th cold approach lay since starting this a year ago soon.

    I’m not sure i’m getting any better or not, but I actually never thought i’d be able to get any lays from cold approach so i’m happy in a way.

    My next thing is that I want to improve the quality. One or two of the girls were gorgeous (although I was lucky in that they both actually more or less came onto me!) but in general, I would like hotter girls

    I still get way intimidated by the hot young ones. Partly because I still feel they’re way out of my league (I’m a 5, they’re a 8,9 lookswise) and partly the age thing. I’m getting old now. I’M in my 30’s, although I can usually pass for like 26 according to girls who guess my age. But I still feel that ticking clock. I worry about looking like the creepy old guy hitting on girls! It probably messes up my approach sub consciously at times.

  42. @j: LOL yes I know some of the things you suggest would work wonders. But it’s my house she is acting bitchy I shouldn’t leave, I should kick her out. But we’re married :/

    @Scars: others can comment more on the technical aspects but it is very clear in several parts of your latest post (and in previous ones) you still need to work quite a bit on your “internal game”.

    You think you don’t deserve them so the girls feel that (usually). They are evolved to be hard to fool on that aspect. You need to keep at it and get some more successes (even if small ones) so that you believe that you are the prize. And then, technical aspects or not, you will have an easier time.

    Mind you, technical aspects and logistics matter a LOT, so work on those as well!

  43. Scars

    Women/girls aren’t complicated. When we over think and over analyze everything, it’s us that make situations confusing and harder than they have to be.

    Remember, pick up works and is useful, and yeah people have different ideas based on experiences. The tendency of late is to point to ” that one guy/god that has all of the answers for YOU, in me very circumstance.

    Just my opinion, but I think as you experiment and go out hunting, remain aware that billions of men will get laid that same day with zero codified game, and has been so forever. Interaction with women will eventually make things clearer. There is no magic or tricks or secrets, there’s only what you know and experience at the end of the day. If your making an effort and paying attention, you’ll surprise yourself with what you can figure out and act on.

    Don’t become dependent and stuck. Do that work.

  44. @IAS

    In your previous history her coin of the realm was hide the vagina. You get with her and she has desire sex with you. She subconsciously realizes the next day: Holy shit I just spent a lot of fucking coin yesterday. I better conserve my money and make him work for it.

    Then she thinks. Hmm, what’s the first thing on my rolodex of things to do to have power over him? Well I could start with a big shit test. Then I could get him to Communicate more (and show me all of his playing cards in his Hand). And then I can Put Him to Work for Me.

    Married Man Recovery Mode 101. Whatever you do, don’t get butt-hurt. What would you do if she weren’t there? What if she was potential N=3 and she was showing LMR. Would you show charisma and charm or would you get butt-hurt and not pass shit tests?. She wants to have desire sex, but with someone who is desirable to have sex with.

    ” I go out for my hobbies/sports both nights which she is unhappy about. I still initiate but get shot down, and I tell her to go to her side of the bed as I don’t feel like cuddling if I’m going to just get hard for nothing. I note to myself I’m actually not particularly turned on despite the proximity.””

    You see what you just did there? Here’s an assignment: Explain how she felt emotionally when she came to visit you and you go out for your hobbies/sports both nights? How special does that make her feel? How do you think you could have passed her shit test to cuddle better–that response by you is in the dictionary as a prime example of getting butt-hurt. Question for you: Who telegraphs that they are butt-hurt more, Alphas or Betas. Of course you’re not turned on. You just had all the free excess energy drained from your brain. You weren’t leading, you were following her pussy around looking for table scraps.

  45. “But it’s my house she is acting bitchy I shouldn’t leave, I should kick her out. But we’re married.”

    Why should you kick her out? I thought you wanted to have sex with her.

    Commandment of Poon IV: Don’t play by her rules

    If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.

    XV. Maintain your state control

    You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.

  46. @Sentient: I guess not, given the results so far. Although there was at least once when she was starting to really annoy me, and then I realized it, and I just started laughing. It would only have been better if she also started laughing.

    @SJF: good points in general, thanks.

    I know she is upset about visiting and I go out for my sports as I do when she isn’t here, but I should do what I want surely; changing my routine because she is around to appease her doesn’t seem like the right move for that.

  47. @IAS

    Day 1: She has an itch and you change your plans to scratch it. It’s basically j’s isolated island sex. Isolation, proximity, arousal, assumed sale. She doesn’t have to work for it (she dresses up to feel sexy, not to submit to you) and you give in. Both think the other one operates in their frame. Wrong. She scores. I bet you didn’t make her beg for the D (and then the O) either.

    Days 2&3: No itch. The rest is the same situ though. It’s not you who’s the source of her arousal, it’s her biology. She can sense that. She knows you gave in, it was all too easy and she feels entitled to go for more: either your further supplication or an actual alpha stud. Come out, you little prick, show yourself! *poke* *poke* *shit test* LOL. Meanwhile, in the IAS-land, you expect the whole thing to play out more less the same way it did the day before. Little do you know you gave her an inch and she’s going for a mile… lol…

    Do you tease her, make it playful, make her realize you’re the man she wants to submit to THROUGHOUT the day? No. It sounds like you just try to get some in the evening. No wonder you both end up frustrated. It’s not an ON/OFF switch for her, it’s the whole experience with you.

    Where’s the “it just happened in the changing room with people outside” fantasy? Where’s “he made me his little slut on the washing machine and I begged him to take my ass”? She’s not like that? Or is it you?

    You’re still up to your eyeballs in “sweet dinner dates” and “hand holding walks” feelz, aren’t you. This is not what gets girls wet…

    No worries, you’re getting there.

  48. Married Man Recovery Mode 101. Whatever you do, don’t get butt-hurt. What would you do if she weren’t there? What if she was potential N=3 and she was showing LMR. Would you show charisma and charm or would you get butt-hurt and not pass shit tests?. She wants to have desire sex, but with someone who is desirable to have sex with.

    This is key. it’s so easy to just give up on the non-cooperative wife and not seduce her the same as a stranger. Big mistake but easy to make when we let our emotions get in the way

  49. IAS

    Of course you failed all the tests… By why does she test you after hot sex?

    Would you show charisma and charm or would you get butt-hurt and not pass shit tests?. She wants to have desire sex, but with someone who is desirable to have sex with.

    Answer: Because she wants the same alpha guy to be there post sex. The guy she cannot bend to her frame… How does she know you are that guy? Tests… which you pass

    It’s nto that you won’t get tested, it’s that she will relish your passing the tests. And in time, if you get it, passing the tests is natural as breathing and you might no longer realize you are being fitness tested.

    And in this dynamic, she will find peace…

    but still test you from time to time!

    Feature not a bug from her hypergamous inclination…

  50. @Everyone: what if the “tests” are somewhat centered around a transfer of (financial) resources?

    I mentioned it before but given the relevance I’ll repeat it. Although we are (still) married, over 1 year ago I initiated (and got it) a financial separation.

    Most of these shit tests are because her value system focuses a lot on clean and tidy house (her mother is like that as well). I don’t care for that. I’m not going to clean my house up to “her standards” when it is fine for me, and I don’t want to pay someone else either (it isn’t even expensive, but she can afford it herself if she wants it that much – would cost about as much as a fancy dinner, or the lingerie I offered to pay for her). I clean the house up to “my standards” though, I don’t expect her to do it. She is free to clean it herself or pay for it, even though it is my house, I’ll allow her to hire someone to do it occasionally if it doesn’t particularly inconvenience me.

    Just to be clear, I’m not even a slob (I’m probably even above average in these things, she just happens to have particularly high standards, probably due to her upbringing). I shouldn’t even be asking you guys if I’m in the wrong here (MMSL forum would say I’m in the wrong LOL).
    But you guys don’t really think it is about the house being clean or not, right?

  51. IAS

    But you guys don’t really think it is about the house being clean or not, right?

    LOL. Of course not. It’s how you respond/react to her… This issue is just her top of the Rolodex go to move to get you into her frame and confirm your beta status in her eyes.

    Time apart… He seems aloof, mysterious… dominant perhaps?

    Get together… he has some swagger? He is what I think/!

    Hot sex!!! Her hindbrain relishes the moment

    but….

    next day… better test that it GOT the Alpha seed… not the low qual beta seed…

    Hey you!!! Jump for me! React to my frame!!!

    i.e. Testing…

    You: fails…

    Her: Shit! Beta seed…

    Angry…

    Repeat…

  52. IAS

    Alllllll this…. even thinking about it!!!

    Most of these shit tests are because her value system focuses a lot on clean and tidy house (her mother is like that as well). I don’t care for that. I’m not going to clean my house up to “her standards” when it is fine for me, and I don’t want to pay someone else either (it isn’t even expensive, but she can afford it herself if she wants it that much – would cost about as much as a fancy dinner, or the lingerie I offered to pay for her). I clean the house up to “my standards” though, I don’t expect her to do it. She is free to clean it herself or pay for it, even though it is my house, I’ll allow her to hire someone to do it occasionally if it doesn’t particularly inconvenience me.

    I just manstering in her frame…

  53. If a woman is unreasonably emotional about a ” thing “, you can bet that there’s another ” thing ” actually driving that emotion.

  54. IAS

    Time to move from PUA basic seduction to managing a woman…

    agree and amplify and flip the script are your go too reactions. Flip the script does NOT mean argue btw. more misdirection…

    Her: House… dirty… rawk!!!! Rawk!!!! Bla!!!!

    You: Have you seen my socks?

    Her: Socks!!! House dirty RAAAAAAAWWWWWWKKKK!!!!

    You: You know what your problem is [smiling slyly]

    Her: MY problem??? What’s my problem!!!!

    Aaaaaannnnd there you have it. Script flipped…. her in your frame…

    take it form there… cocky funny seductive, dominant… etc.

  55. I’m in a new situation I have no answers for.

    I met a woman at the club last Saturday: 02/03

    I opened her and the group, quickly isolated her and danced. Qualified her a bit. Typical Attraction phase pickup stuff I’m still getting the hang of.

    After about 30 minutes we are making out, and after about 1.5 hours I decide its time to go for the pull. My commute back to home is about 45 minutes; I was a bit hesitant and uncertain in myself, so I wasn’t willing to make a firm decision on going back to my place. Ultimately, I ended up dropping her off at her place and saying good bye. It’s safe to say I fucked up big league on the pull. I tried to “reason with her via logic” in order to get to come to my place, but that was a retarded thing to do. Fortunately during our interaction we arranged drinks the next day.

    So on Sunday (02/04) we go get drinks and watch the football game. Now she is more stiff than the previous night, but after a drink and after some push/pull and escalation she is almost back to how she was the night before (carefree, laughing, giggling, touchy, shit like that) except a little more reserved, possibly due to not being in the same wild club environment as before, and possibly due to me not escalating and flirting as much as I should have. Ultimately, the date went well because we got to know each other a lot more (lots of “comfort” stuff) but no sex or anything. So I drop her off back at her place again and I tell her I’ll hit her up during the week to hang out again.

    So during the week we make plans, and when Friday (02/09) comes I pick her up and we go to a bar. This time I am more prepared with stories and routines to use if things get boring. At the bar we have drinks again and this time she is much more comfortable physically given that we were making out and having a good romantic time together, and I believe this is due to me being more prepared, telling her stories about my past, my future ambitions, as well as me physically escalating in a more gradual fashion through hugging her, caressing hands and other good things.

    So after about 2 hours or so together I try going for the pull again. This time I tried focusing on saying things like “we’re going to go on an adventure” and “we are going to go to my place and it is going to be fun” and I KNEW in my head I needed to focus on her emotions and not use logic to get her back to my place. But to be honest, I suddenly realized last night I have NO CLUE how to get a girl back to my place if she shows a little resistance. So I started making the same mistakes as last Saturday by trying to reason with her, and once again that didn’t work out. We ended up going back to her place.

    I parked beside her apartment, we started making out, and eventually we were in the back of my car, with her shirt off and I was sucking her tits and everything. It was great!!! But simultaneously I was trying to problem solve how I would really fuck this chick. I tried getting her pants off but she wasn’t up for it; she kept saying “i’m not ready tonight” while she was stroking my cock through my pants. I was getting serious blue balls at this point lol no joke never had blue balls like this in my life. So i decide, in the midst of her sucking my neck, that I would drive my car into a more secluded spot. I jump into the drivers seat and start driving around while this half naked women’s sitting in the back trying to hide her tits. Everything was looking so good! I would find a spot, jump back into the back seat, fuck her like theres no tomorrow and seal the deal!! But while I was driving she came to the conclusion that it was “time to leave”. She started putting her clothes on. I tried convincing her otherwise, but she was pretty adamant about going home. So we said goodbye, she got out of the car and left.

    The remainder of the night I had severe blue balls. I wanted to go back out to talk to some chicks, but my blue balls was so intense I instead went home and jerked off. It literally felt like someone was squeezing my nut sack.

    Tonight I am trying to meet up with her again; and I am afraid I will make the same mistake on the pull as the previous two nights. I really don’t know what to do other than to say “adventure”, and “let’s go to my place and have fun”. I don’t really have a good strategy for the pull at all; I am pretty much 100% crossing my fingers and winging it.

    What do you guys recommend for pulling chicks? What do you say and do to make this happen?

    N.B: She has roommates who sleep in the same room as her so I wrote off fucking her in her apartment.

  56. @Safespace

    Everyone makes rookie technical mistakes, but I think this 1/2 tech issues, 1/2 inner game issues.

    The tech
    – see girl
    – walk over
    – attraction behavior
    – solve her logistics (social and otherwise)
    – seed the bounce
    – build trust
    – give her plausible deniability
    – get her home
    – shoes off
    – 2 steps forward with the kissing and hands, 1 step back so as to tease her into wanting the fuck shit out of her.

    You got as far as the attraction behavior. Mentally, you think getting a girl to actually want to fuck you is the hard part.

    No, she wants to fuck you early on. Either you run your game to screen like most guys, or you run your game to convert like solid PUA’s.

    The problem on her end is that she isn’t actually comfortable doing more with you than making out and getting felt up.

    Kudos to recognizing that she’s not into it. Good on you.

    But LMR busting Aziz style is sort of what fucked you up on dates 2 and 3.

    So the fix here on the tech side is

    1) Have a God damned plan on how to get these chicks home.

    – actually get some intel. “oh you like mexican food – there’s a mexican place 20 minutes from here (and 20 minutes to my place after that…)

    – Seed that bounce!

    2) Build trust

    Meet her friends, Introduce her to people you know, break the touch barrier in a non-sexual way, and pull back before she gets weird – like you can sense before she tenses up- basically build up the trust.

    “I’m a hot sexy guy with lots of friends, bitches want to fuck me, dudes want to be me, you’re lucky I’m attracted to you, and I won’t make you feel bad, I won’t embarrass you. ”

    3) 2 steps forward, 1 step back during sexy time

    – kiss, back off
    – french kiss, back off
    – necking, back off
    – 2nd base, back off
    – et cetera.

    You want her so frustrated with desire that she could be accused of taking advantage of YOU.

    But the real problem here?

    ***Inner Game***

    “This time I am more prepared with stories and routines to use if things get boring.”

    If a chick goes out with me, is seen with me, stands next to me, asks me a question – the broad likes me – attraction unlocked, end of story. I ain’t like these other guys on this board, where chicks been falling over me all my life. I am INVISIBLE to these bitches, until I start talking to them.

    Veterans of the game/pick up have long understood that attraction is the easiest part. These chicks have nerve endings on every dead hair follicle. Getting the chick to want to fuck you is sometimes as simple as brushing the hair from her face. (that shit won’t sell bootcamps and e-books though…)

    Getting her to ACT on her desire is the ***hard*** part. She likes the idea of fucking, but reality of it…. You got to get her from idea to action.

    Broads, just like dudes, have rich fantasy lives, and more often than not, because she’s been exposed to more fucked up guys – her fantasy life is far sicker than yours.

    So the tech above is about making that happen. That’s how you get an attracted girt to fuck you. You handle the mental reservations anyone has about getting fucked. At the same time, you keep a slow boil going on with the sexuality.

    However, that line about needing routines to keep the conversation/interaction going stands out to me, because “you feel that you aren’t enough” to paraphrase RSDJulien,

    I love routines. I think routines are the one of the best things to ever come out of pick up, and guys are fucking idiots for not picking up free money. And believe me, I can improvise shit better than most.

    A routine is a tool, just not the right tool for this job.

    So the tech fix for your inner game issues is not “more routines, different routines” but to “vibe” – which translates as “stop running attraction material after the girl is already attracted to you”.

    Thinking you need high octane material for the entire date is a problem, not the high octane material itself.

    The inner game – your belief in yourself that LOTS of chicks want you to bend them over an re-enact some German porn loop you found on X-tube –

    That’s what’s really needed here. These bitches want to fuck me, it’s not a fluke. I’m not getting lucky. Sex is normal and natural, and I didn’t just win a pussy lottery. (unless of course the chick is a straight freak, in which case, you did)

    If you were in Vegas and the chick was sharing a room with her Mom – your belief in yourself – can get you to sneak into the room and fuck her with the mom snoring in the single bed next to y’all.

    Instead of being bad logistics, that’s GOOD logistics, because this broad is a dirty fucking bitch in her mind and just needs a strong man to make it happen for her, and protect her from all downsides.

    But the player needs to step out of “all technique, all the time” and work on his self image.

  57. @Everyone: quick update. Took me longer to finally get her again (the wife), epic frame battle indeed, but I did get her and when I did it was hot desire sex again.

    I’ll maintain a watchful eye on my Frame as the shit tests will continue…

  58. @IAS

    She will Frame Battle. You keep your Frame. You don’t Frame battle (because it is unbecoming of you.) There is a difference there. It is not effective for you to battle her because that is try hard, butt-hurt territory right there.

    I went through this process of frame battling when I went through my Red Pill Reconstruction. What I learned and observed over time was: Over time I kept my Frame and didn’t try to steal her Frame from her. My wife has high self esteem and can keep her own Ultimate Frame and thus, she deserves to keep it. She doesn’t want it stolen from her. She wants a reason to come into my Frame. So I give it to her by being attractive (in multiple ways, not a looks thing only). At one point she overtly said: “I want to love you SJF, but you have to be love-able.” When women go overt, they mean it.

    I know you have mentioned she borders on low self esteem. But she still wants to feel good about you. She wants you to give her a reason to come into your Frame because of your actions, not because you had to talk her into it. She wants you to have a good “vibe” that she can latch on to. So have a good “vibe”. Be fun and add value. Have free excess energy because you aren’t placing too much Importance on her behavior and she is not stealing your energy. Her Forebrain knows that she wants her hindbrain to have desire to fuck you because you are desirable at times. So give her that opportunity. Don’t be petulant, be charismatic.

    Feel free to email me for dialogue if you so desire. It’s good to have a objective sounding board.

    I’ve been in your shoes before. There are nuances to the process. You should be able to do what you want to do, but you still have to be attractive to her so she goes along willingly with you. And you have to separate PUA game from MRP game. You have a legacy in MRP game to unwind. Behaviors from both of you need to go through an extinction phase. And in that regard, it is better to learn new behaviors than try to correct old behaviors. You can’t instruct her on that, you have to show her. Acta non verba.

  59. Tao of Steve game

    “”Dex: Both men and women want to have sex. It’s natural, except we’re on different timetables. Women want to have sex, like, y’know, fifteen minutes after us, so alright, if you hold out for twenty she’ll be chasing you for five.
    “”

  60. @IAS (but also @safespaceplaypen)

    http://www.girlschase.com/content/frame-control-examples-out-frame-anyone
    Note this first: “I don’t really even like this term [frame control] all that much myself. I prefer to think of it as just knowing what you want and what you will and won’t tolerate, and going from there” …and then read the whole article.

    Most people’s frames are emotion cleverly disguised as logic.
    The majority of men new to the social arts don’t recognize this, and slip up trying to address only the logic… instead of the underlying emotion first, and the logic only second.

    Lol at the Chris Rock clip:

    “It’s impossible, you will not win. ‘Cause men, we are handicapped when it comes to arguing ’cause we have a need to make sense.”

    I like the 4 tiers of competence Chase describes. The top one being this:

    When it comes to women, you’ve GOT to know you’re probably the BEST thing that’s ever happened to them if you want the most outstanding frame control you can get with them.
    Why’s that so? Because when a girl’s protesting, or her friends are, or she’s throwing up reasons why she can’t be together with you, you’ve got to, got to, GOT TO KNOW that those reasons are trash and she’s about to miss out on the best goddamn thing that’s ever happened to her (YOU).
    Until you know that and believe it in your bones, you will always struggle with frame control.
    And how do you get to the point where you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you’re unquestionably the best thing that could happen to a woman?
    You must work on yourself to the point where you bring tremendously more value to her life – whether in a one-night stand or a long-term relationship – than any other man likely can or will.

    Alpha up from tier 1 to tier 4.

  61. Guys, worth watching this conversation between Alex and Todd (both former RSD). I assume it’s allowed to post this because they are no longer RSD – they say they weren’t allowed to collaborate when Todd was still at RSD.

    It’s actually an interesting conversation that isn’t just a rehash of newbie tips and the like. Some cool points about how to screen girls/probe for logistics – a very interesting “takeaway” tactic Alex uses in sets that are going well – it’s another variant of short set method, but here it is used as a screening tactic to see how much a girl likes you. Also a good way of probing whether a girl has a boyfriend..and some good talk about the importance of persistence, but also its limits (there’s a good line which clicked for me – something like “persistence isn’t ‘not taking no for an answer’ – it’s more like ‘checking that the no is really legit'”

    Also (watching as I type) some very good stuff about testing the waters with a “soft close” or “soft invite” before a hard invite (like saying “are you adventurous? let’s go and get a plane to Vegas right now!!” and watching her reaction to something obviously not serious, before you say “right, everyone, let’s go and get an Uber” which is actually a serious attempt to venue change)

    Another interesting point about pulling: why use your social capital to pull at the end of the night? Often it is just easier to wait till the lights come on and security tells you to leave or the girl suggests leaving – and you end up in the same situation anyway – both of you leaving the club together.

    Importance of re-approaching sets/burning a set to the ground.

    Interesting thoughts about “you are enough” and entitlement – the concept that you need some basic threshold value to be vaguely within the realm of possibility for her. Also the idea that women’s sense of self-esteem and value fluctuate way more wildly up and down and is more volatile than a man’s self-esteem (also links to the concept that girls ping off their environment for their feelz although that isn’t mentioned in the video) and that therefore they often want someone solid to anchor off.

  62. so now that the decree is signed, we’re at the last of the details to wrap it all up; up until tonight, I had been driving my old truck until the ex could find a car of her own; she dropped it off at my house this evening so I assume she now has that squared away

    it was fairly well cleaned out but there was a black sketchbook in the backseat and since I thought it was my son’s, I opened it to see his latest and greatest

    it was not my son’s sketchbook

    the ex has always been a good writer and always kept various journals to jot down her thoughts, lists, ideas, etc.; the page I happened to open it to has all the little curly, overly rounded lettering that all girls learn in elementary school; there were little hand drawn hearts all over the page like confetti; there were paragraphs about her ‘finally finding true love’ along with overly rapturous ramblings about theirs being the deepest kind of love and she longs to be with him; on other pages there are explicit sexual depictions; on others, little scribblings like one might carve into a tree or on a notebook doodle in class: ‘Ms. Ex-zipper loves Keith’ and the like

    my name is not Keith

    brutal highlights:

    – she wants to have his love child; wow, we had to try real hard to get my son; doctor’s visits, testing, etc.; I wasn’t the problem, her eggs were; I got one fantastic boy out of it so I am happy, even though the door for more was closed; I don’t think she can do it, but to see her urge to have another, but not mine…. I got no words for that one but if you’re interested in getting the idea, take something dull and rusty and stick it in your eye until it comes out your ass and make sure it gouges thru your heart on the way down
    – on a couple of the margins she tries out her name but with his last name, just to see what it looks like, further the fantasy I suppose; when written, she and I were still legally married, if that even matters
    – all these entries are dated so I know when it all happened; nothing goes back to before the big separation but the earlist are just a few months afterwards but she was still living in the house while trying to get a job, etc. to move out

    tripping hard in a bit of a stunned daze right now; this is a woman I spent over a third of my life with and I had no fucking idea what was really swimming around in her head

    I had thought I was further along, but if so, then this wouldn’t hurt so much; one step forward, five back

    it occurred to me that maybe subconsciously she wanted me to find it, to what end doesn’t matter, it won’t change my course; in fact, it will harden my resolve to put my half broken ass back together and rise like a fucking phoenix

    some might say War and Peace is a tough read…. but it ain’t got shit on this, I couldn’t finish it; my son will take it back to her and I’ll not let on that I looked at it

    maybe I’ll follow up later after a bit more time; finding it hard to sleep and I just wanted to dump this out while fresh

  63. @dr zipper – wow, brutal.

    I won’t say “sorry to hear that” since in the long run it’s probably a good thing you found it so you understand your ex better and understand the Red Pill better – but for now: sorry to hear that it’s hit so hard – we’re here when you’re reeling from the punch. This is the place to get vent over it and then move forward.

    Besides you don’t have a choice – you owe it to your son. You have to move forward and be the best man you can be, to model it for your son. This is just emotional fuel to the fire. I have no doubt that in a couple of years you’ll look back at this and the emotional impact will be gone, because you’ll have sorted yourself out and be comfortable in who you are.

    PS – How old is your son?

  64. @Zipper

    Ouch. That’s the kind of stuff you just want to put down and avoid reading. Seriously – it does you no good. You need to hard next her.

    I spent 28 years with a woman before I left. Two kids. We shared growing up, childbrith, death of relative… a whole lifetime to some.

    It took her 3 months to leave the house after the rupture. I spent most of that time in my bedroom. I snooped around her emails a bit – there was no other man (i dumped her ass after a long time of no sex), but she was trying to shack up with one of her girl friends so I suspect she’s going lezzie now.

    We haven’t spoken since and that was 3 years ago. Some emails concerning the kids and pay for this type of shit.

    One of my most satisfying moments was bedding a nice 36yo in the family bed on my ex’s birthday. Sort of a symbolic fuck you.

    It pays to bite the bullet and force her out of your life. Your son can probably be be dealt via email…

  65. Zipper

    She did you a favor. Ripped the band aid off.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4PE2hSqVnk

    “Get mad! You sons of bitches! Get mad!!”

    I had a salesguy once. Typical type, handsome, big smile, great hair, glib, talk to anyone.

    He was going through a divorce, where they were still living together sorting out moves, he finds a note she had un her bag to her new lover. Goes in great detail how much she loves his cock… Etc.

    He was crying as he read this. He didnt care much about the divorce but this reality shook him.

    He spiraled down from here and I had to fire him in lile 6 months. Lost touch for a few years then I heard he started a business and it was going well.

    Ran into him a few years after that. He was tan, smiling, rich… Easy and amiable. We caught up. Had his new blond 15 years younger on his arm.

    This is just a different opportunity for you Doc. Make the most of it.

  66. @dr zipper

    re the ‘journal’…

    you are probably tooo close to the situ to see this, buuut…

    it’s a SHIT TEST!…lol

    of course she left it where you would find it… and presumably read it… most likely unconsciously, but who knows?… bitches be spiteful…lol

    her leaving it there for you to find is just her trying to CONFIRM that she made the right choice in dumping your beta ass… if you get all butt-hurt about it, she’ll (her hindbrain) KNOW she did the ‘right’ thing…

    THAT’s why it seems sooo harsh… bc it IS…

    you can win on this by the way…

    first, put this into the PROPER perspective… recognize that a couple months AFTER the ‘big separation’ is actually a looong time in getting-a-divorce years…lol

    second, the fact that she started an actual journal shows that she had at least SOME doubts about divorcing you… bc ‘journaling’ is about trying to sort out thoughts/feelings that you are not able to ‘just know’… AND the fact that it was ongoing/dated entries shows that she continued to have doubts about her decision… her hindbrain expected to have to have a final ‘check/confirmation’ at the end of everything… (and yes, her hindbrain would have planned ahead THAT much…lol… especially if you were starting to get some RP digested and absorbed/into action…)

    third, read the WHOLE thing… it WILL be painful… but you need to do it… why?… bc it is an opportunity for your RP growth that you can’t let slip by…bc dogs are not cats… you will read it like a dog (and be hurt by its very existence)… at least to start with… but you need to try to see behind the entries to the purpose that the journal was/is serving… in CAT thinking…

    she might try to rationalize leaving the journal for you to find as ‘trying to hurt you bc you were being a dick about the braces money’…basically being ‘spiteful’… but that’s just bc girls don’t DO honest/accurate self-reflection…lol… the underlying reason is always some version of AF or BB testing/interaction… (see the concept of war brides for more info…)

    remember our good friend hypergamy?… and its twin buddy solipsism?… try to apply those lenses while you read through it… and keep focused on the concept of ‘fitness testing’ even though you didn’t read it until now… how would any of that journal have impacted you at the time it was written?… IF she had TOLD you that exact thing?… her hindbrain is always trying to solve some question regarding those AF/BB interactions… what type of problem do you think she (hindbrain) is trying to solve by journaling THAT particular shit?

    fourth, do NOT get your son involved in this shit… HE will probably at least look at the journal… do you really think THAT would be good for HIM?… (hint – the answer is NO…lol)

    fifth, after you have read the whole thing a couple times… until it doesn’t impact you enough for you to be able to keep/hold your frame… YOU hand over the journal directly to her… smirk at her and say nothing… most likely, she will try to shit test you about it, bc remember the purpose is to CONFIRM to her (hindbrain) that she made the ‘right’ choice in divorcing you… and so if you just hand it over without any comment, she will have lost that opportunity… sooo, she will NEED to engage you on it… be ready… (hint – ambiguity is your friend…lol… also, reframe/put it back on her… ‘why is it so important to you to know what i think about that?’… = your frame… = MPoO in you… see how that works?…lol)

    sixth, DO NOT be butthurt… and the only way to get THERE is to understand the dynamic in play… would you be butt-hurt at your son, if he left his journal out and you found it… and it had that same kind of stuff with HIS last name as the name of that other guy?… thinking that he would rather have that guy as his dad… OR would you be mad at your ex for putting that idea into his head?…

    this is basically the same dynamic, except your ex gets the ‘idea’ from her social conditioning… as translated through her evo psych/biology… AWALT = most mature teenager in the house…lol… girls don’t do anything specifically ‘to hurt you’… although it seems like that’s what’s going on… they are just engaging in scientific methodology… testing their environment and observing the results… how you react to THAT is completely within YOUR control…

    good luck!

  67. @Culum

    yeah I watched that clip. Alex covers all that in great detail in his product ‘Social Encrypted’ if you wanna check it out. Personally I’m not a fan of his style (but my wing is). Too soft for me

  68. @j – I’ve not watched much of Alex (I have his older product from his RSD days – Flawless Natural or something I think downloaded on my laptop along with a shit ton of other pickup products that are in the queue to watch when I’m back in the small town and have time).

    Most of the pickup stuff I watch now (not much really) is 98% stuff I know repeated in different ways, but the other 2% is interesting new stuff and new perspectives that are new even to someone who has been doing this for a while.

    My personal favourites are still Julien (before he went all new-agey), Todd, Jeffy (more for his personal attitude than his videos – I think he’d been awesome coach in person), plus the classic Mystery/Lovedrop videos where they’re just messing around talking.

  69. @Culum

    Flawless Natural is Tim’s product. But yeah I agree with you on Julien. Pimp and Ten Game are full with powerful shit. I’ll sometimes play a clip from one of those products (or an infield from The Natural) before going out.

    “Jeffy (more for his personal attitude than his videos – I think he’d been awesome coach in person)”

    If you download his product resonator, there’s actually a 35 minute infield clip of him coaching a shy student throughout the night

  70. @Sentient – hahaha. That one I’ll never forget.

    It was probably a year or so ago, but that’s the video where someone posted it (probably you) and HABD told me something along the lines of “You [Culum] are already better than that guy [Alex] in the video – I can tell just from reading the LRs of your successes that your subcomms and skills are already better than that guy’s when you’re firing on all cylinders, and you just need to get out of your own way and relax to get that kind of result consistently”

    And I remember having a bit of a revelation of “me, really? Me, as good or better than an RSD instructor? Is that all it takes to reach that level of skill??” I mean I’ve probably known about the Game as long as Alex, and while I don’t have his experience in going out, I *do* have a lot of experience, so it’s not even that surprisingly really, but hard to accept still. I’m better with it now but still not fully internalized it.

    BTW, I’ve been going out this Blitz. Missed a few nights because of work and other stuff, but reasonably consistent. Not posted any FRs because there is no point to posting more FRs of grinding it out with limited results – but the grinding it out is happening (9 hours on Sunday – my all time highest number of openers in day – 53).

  71. Culum

    Yeah you got this.

    On the grind. Don’t live the grind, grind the life…

    #getthemtosignonthelinethatisdotted

  72. @j – ah, Tim, sorry. I haven’t watched it yet and got confused.

    I have Resonator too, I Just haven’t gotten round to watching it. I have met Jeffy briefly btw – he’s exactly the same in person. I attended his Hot Seat a couple of years ago and it was excellent for pickup tech guys. He doesn’t do any of the new agey exercise type stuff that Tyler and others do. Just an entire day of infield breakdowns and answering questions (and in his case talking a lot about setting up threesomes and tandem-hunting for girls with his girlfriend).

  73. This is the only one you need.

    Don’t want to comment directly on PUA technique, but the sluts on this video are not the type of hoes I’d be interested in. They sound ignorant and behave crassly and badly. And I’m not that much of a prude. Not at all the kind of woman I’d invite into my house and have my (older) children exposed to. I’d check the silverware after they leave too.

    I guess if someone really wants to get laid they’ll do, but there’s got to be a place/social situation that attract a different caliber of target. Is daygame the only solution?

  74. Saint Valentines Day Massacre Shit Test? Field Report

    Background – I walked out on my wife in November and only moved back in after New Years because she realized that she could not live without me, and that her weaponizing sex and continuous compliance tests/controlling mind games were inappropriate. She has sworn them off, and shows great promise. The Dread game succeeded in deep conversion – she now has Oneitis, but is still deeply insecure in the relationship, now that her previous controls/buffers/defenses have been stripped away.

    Scene 1 – The Living Room:
    Made reservations a few weeks ago for dinner tonight. Come home from work and pick up a conversation about financial security and some research I said I would do. She has lifelong money issues and always gets upset when we discuss financial matters. This time is no exception. While catching her up with all the analysis and what the next steps need to be, her facial expression gets more and more stern. By the time I’m done, she appears to be very angry, so I call her on it.

    Me: Why do you look so angry when all I’ve been talking about are numbers and finances?

    Wife: “Why do you think I’m angry?” she asks, angrily. What gives you the right to tell me what I’m thinking?

    Me: “I am not telling you what you are thinking. I am telling you what I am thinking. I think you are angry, and it makes no sense to me. Don’t you want me to take control and ensure our financial security and timely retirement?

    Wife: Yes, of course I do, but I also don’t want you to tell me what I am thinking. Can I tell you what I am thinking?

    Me: Sure

    Wife: I was thinking, I really wanted to have sex before we go out to dinner, but I can’t get a word in edgewise while he is talking about this. Why does he keep talking about this when all I want to do is have sex?

    Me: You could have handled this differently. Even so, why did all of this lead you to anger, of all emotions?

    She is standing now, hyperventilating, with hands on her hips, yelling at me in a demanding tone.

    Wife: Tell me how I should have handled that differently? (This was a command rather than an expression of openness to hear my point of view – a shit test? Not sure.)

    Me: Ok, just take a deep breath and get a hold of yourself, little girl. Sit down on the couch again, compose yourself, and I will tell you want you want to know. But I will not be commanded to respond to you. Compose yourself, and ask me politely in a calm voice, and I will tell you how you might have handled that differently.

    Wife: Little Girl!?!?! How insulting!

    Me: Thats how you’re acting. Like a teenager or tween who is having a temper tantrum.

    Wife:Oh, there you go again. You’re just going to insist that I calm down, and then you’re never going to tell me what you think. You just want to torment me.

    Me: No, I don’t. I want to answer you, but I need you to calm down and be respectful first.

    Wife: Don’t tell me to calm down and sit down. I need to go get dressed for dinner.

    Me: Fine.

    After she dresses, I enter the bathroom as she is putting on makeup and tell her she looks beautiful. She smiles. Although she is polite and pleasant now and we aren’t talking about it, her recent outburst is still “fresh” and she is still a bit “off”.

    We go to dinner and have a pretty mundane conversation. We go home, watch some TiVo recorded T.V., then bed.

    Scene 2 – In bed after the lights are out. I am dozing off to sleep:

    Wife: I feel so alone.

    Me: Drowsily – Huh?

    Wife: I feel so lonely.

    I remain silent, let her talk, thinking “Uh Oh, this can’t end well”

    Wife: You never tell me you love me. How can I know that you love me?

    What’s going through my mind now is that this is a comfort test, and she needs reassurance, but I cannot be caving in to her demand, because it is also a compliance test. Her reassurance will have to wait a bit – maintaining frame is more important at this point. So I wait. There is silence for a minute or two, and I hear her quietly sobbing. After a while I speak again.

    Me: I do love you.

    Wife: But I don’t feel loved. How can I know you love me? How can we stay married if I don’t feel loved?

    Me: The best evidence of my love is that I am here, in bed with you right now. I could be anywhere else, with anyone else, but I choose to be here, with you.

    Wife: But I don’t feel loved. You do not love me.

    Me: You are mixing up your feelings and your need to be certain with what I am feeling. It is as if you believe that your feelings can somehow control my feelings. No one can ever know someone else’s feelings. We cannot directly experience them, which is the only way to know them. We can only listen to someone tell us how they feel. Speaking is an action that we can observe, but we cannot directly observe another’s feelings.

    Wife: But how can I know that you love me?

    Clearly feelz analysis 101 is not working. Now I need to take a different, more abstract approach.

    Me: Does the Moon love the stars?

    Wife: I don’t understand what that has to do with anything.

    Me: Even if the Moon does love the stars, how can the stars know this? They cannot ever know this. They must be satisfied by knowing that the moon and the stars are in a relationship with each other, just as it should be.

    Wife: I still don’t understand.

    Me: I think you should spend some time thinking about it. It’s a question that’s a lot like “what is the sound of 1 hand clapping?”, or “If a tree falls in the woods and there’s no one to hear it, does it make a sound?” There really aren’t any right answers, just what we think about them. I need to sleep now.

    Wife: Will you hug me? I need your touch.

    I hug her and lay back down to sleep.

    Wife: Can I sleep on you? Is it uncomfortable for you? Do you mind?

    Me: No, its not uncomfortable, and I don’t mind.

    Scene 3 – About an hour and a half later
    She wakes and nuzzles a bit. After a while…

    Wife: Make love?

    Me: Yes

    She strips, gets up to pee. I strip. She gets back in bed and we begin kissing. Then…

    Wife: I need you to let me know that you love me.

    Me: I cannot make you know that. I can only tell you that I do. It is within in you to believe or not to. It is your choice.

    She rolls over and is quiet for a bit. Then she comes back to me and we kiss again. Things progress, I finger her. She is already wet and getting much wetter. More finger play. I guide it in and stroke a few times. She moans, then rolls fully on top. We stroke and grind for a while. The pace quickens, she moans more, faster now. She comes. I finally let myself go. She gets up to clean off, throws me a towel. I clean up. She gets back in bed – good night kiss. Then sleep.

    Happy Valentine’s Day.

    So, what do you guys think? I am only 9 months into my RP education, 3 months in MRP LTR. Struggling to avoid getting triggered by her at times. Trying to maintain frame. Amused Mastery is still hard to come by, but I am shooting for it as my steady state. I need all the help I can get guys. Have at it.

  75. I remember thinking the same thing at times:

    “…this is a comfort test, and she needs reassurance, but I cannot be caving in to her demand, because it is also a compliance test….”

    how to handle it?

  76. @Sentient – How so? Which Words? Can you be more specific. I am trying to improve here, so specifics are going to be critical.

  77. Question for the married guys. How many of you are monogamous but game other women for soft dread, etc. and how many of you are outright closing occasionally/regularly outside of the marriage? Does you wife know? Does she suspect?

  78. Marelius Doc Z

    I remember thinking the same thing at times:

    “…this is a comfort test, and she needs reassurance, but I cannot be caving in to her demand, because it is also a compliance test….”

    how to handle it?

    They are ALL “shit” tests… Or as you may better relate to “fitness tests”. “Comfort Test” is a purple pill balm…

    I wish I had a pen, because a diagram would be easier…

    From her side:

    Guy gets it = Feelz

    No feelz? = Questions? Does he get it?

    Fitness test questions = data

    Interpret data as feelz = does he get it?

    If feelz then Yes; if no feelz then no more tests… if loop is more tests more test more test and no feelz

    abort.

    that her weaponizing sex and continuous compliance tests/controlling mind games were inappropriate. She has sworn them off, and shows great promise.

    No she hasn’t and the promise is a long con. You cannot negotiate desire…

    The Dread game succeeded in deep conversion

    No it didn’t. Why?

    she now has Oneitis,

    is still deeply insecure in the relationship,

    OK if she really had deep conversion and Oneitis she would still be insecure but it wouldn’t matter because she would be willing to share whatever part of you she could get.

    her previous controls/buffers/defenses have been stripped away.

    No they haven’t just more subtle. She was upset with you, you were tired. she used sex to get you to show you loved her

    Wife: I need you to let me know that you love me.

    Me: I cannot make you know that. I can only tell you that I do.

    There…

    Me: Why do you look so angry when all I’ve been talking about are numbers and finances?

    well wouldn’t you be angry if your guy wasn’t Just Getting It? And why are you concerned about explaining all this to her? You are in her frame and seeking to comfort her…

    She has lifelong money issues

    This is the same test as “do you love me?”… and you go beta in answering it…

    Me: “I am not telling you what you are thinking. I am telling you what I am thinking. I think you are angry, and it makes no sense to me. Don’t you want me to take control and ensure our financial security and timely retirement?

    Wife: Yes, of course I do, but I also don’t want you to tell me what I am thinking.

    Same thing… She wants to FEEL that you are in control, not debate it. and not have a guy be obsequious. You do things for YOU, she is a beneficiary. You do LOVE for you…

    Meanwhile…

    Wife: I was thinking, I really wanted to have sex before we go out to dinner, but I can’t get a word in edgewise while he is talking about this. Why does he keep talking about this when all I want to do is have sex?

    I guy who just GOT it would have picked up on this and not been anxious to show her what a good boy he’s been working on the finances to make her happy…

    Go back to the diagram…

    No Feelz = Tests…

    Me: No, I don’t. I want to answer you, but I need you to calm down and be respectful first.

    Wife: Don’t tell me to calm down and sit down. I need to go get dressed for dinner.

    Me: Fine.

    And the thing about tests is… you CAN FAIL… Fine? If you FEEL you are in a frame battle, you are losing the frame battle. You are not operating from your frame, you are trying to steal the frame from her. When you OWN the frame, no one can steal it. She ends up having a tantrum and you chuckle and pour a glass of wine and say “when you get a hold of yourself we can continue”… or something.. and walk over to the couch and sit down and ignore her.

    Scene 2 – In bed after the lights are out. I am dozing off to sleep:

    Wife: I feel so alone.

    Me: Drowsily – Huh?

    Wife: I feel so lonely.

    I remain silent, let her talk, thinking “Uh Oh, this can’t end well”

    You: Lonely… Get a dog. [rolls over]

    What’s going through my mind now is that this is a comfort test, and she needs reassurance, but I cannot be caving in to her demand, because it is also a compliance test. Her reassurance will have to wait a bit – maintaining frame is more important at this point. So I wait. There is silence for a minute or two, and I hear her quietly sobbing. After a while I speak again.

    Me: I do love you.

    Note how resolved you are to WIN!!! and when she get’s down to Rolodex card number 5, “cry” what happens…?

    You cave…

    Even from your own metric, you fail this test.

    Why not let her sob? Why not go to sleep?

    So what does she do when you FAIL. More tests!

    Wife: But I don’t feel loved. How can I know you love me? How can we stay married if I don’t feel loved?

    Ups the ante… Will this guy pass or will he double down on the love? Will he JUST GET IT?

    Me: The best evidence of my love is that I am here, in bed with you right now. I could be anywhere else, with anyone else, but I choose to be here, with you.

    No no he wont… What if you said: “There are no guarantees in life. Night.”

    Failing brings what?

    Wife: But I don’t feel loved. You do not love me.

    More tests…

    Get it?

Speak your mind

%d bloggers like this: