Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

15,703 comments on “Field Reports

  1. @TheMarquis

    Sentient and Having A Bad Day and Others

    welcome back!

    Back after a long time. Marriage going pretty well. Not perfect, not where I want to be, but generally good and I feel like I know what I am doing. Financial issues resolved for now and I have a plan.

    I have a question about my kids. My son is 8, my daughter is 5. Fighting constantly. I know siblings fight and the younger one always wants to play with the older one who thinks the younger one is annoying but this is extreme. I had a much bigger age gap with mine so we never had this dynamic.

    sounds like mom is ignoring them… maybe she should get a job…lol… or put them to work around the house when they fight… they do have chores, right?…

    I don’t have an issue with squabbling up to a point, but it is just constant. And while my daughter is far from perfect, she just loves her brother and wants to be around him. Sure, she loses her temper and hits him or lashes out

    that’s learned behavior… and will result in a BPD girl when she is older…

    but it’s mostly driven from his side.

    learned behavior too…

    He’s entitled to not want to play with his annoying little sister, but he’s not entitled to completely lose control and or scream about how much he hates his sister and doesn’t love her or push her around with his full strength at all or shout at her without provocation saying mean things.

    fify… little dude needs some self-control ASAP…

    He’s entitled (sister aside) to be annoyed and bored when mom is window shopping at the mall. He’s not entitled to have a screaming crying meltdown outside the shop so that everyone walking past is giving us sympathetic looks.

    just part of being manipulative…lol… can you think of a better time to have a melt-down to get your way?…lol

    It all ties back to what I’ve posted before – his lack of self-discipline and emotional control. his successfully controlling you and mom through his behavior

    fify…

    SJF told me once I needed to teach him “discipline without self-suppression”. I just don’t know how.

    lol… that’s bc there is no such thing…lol… SJF was talking about his adult age son… not an 8 year old… 8 year olds don’t get a vote…lol

    IRL had some great advice along the lines of how I should take responsibility and spend more time with him and do an activity with him. I’m doing that and in general he’s a lot better when he’s with me.

    he needs structure…

    I understand the way he thinks much better than my wife

    but not enough to out-think him…lol…

    and I seem to be a lot better at consistently keeping up the disciplinary pressure on him and sticking to the rules without losing my temper than she is – for example she agrees with me that we should limit iPad time to weekends,

    does she really?…lol

    but if I’m not there she gives them the iPad on 1-2 weekdays almost every week –

    sh*t test…

    there’s always an excuse

    sh*t test…

    but if they have the iPad on weekdays 4 weeks in a row, we don’t really have a weekend-iPad-only policy for all practical purposes.

    and you don’t hold HER accountable?…lol… but that would play against her being able to use ‘let’s you and him fight’…lol

    But I still can’t get him to stop and think – to stop himself losing control.

    not gonna happen… at least not as long as acting out is the winning strategy…

    Another example: on average, he loses his lunch or his water at school 1-2 days a week. Just literally no idea what is going on around him.

    and what kind of consequence does he get from this?… more attention?…lol…

    I just don’t know how to teach him.

    consequences that are ‘set in stone’… ‘those are the rules… nothing i can do!… YOU were the one that lost your lunch… deal with it…”

    At least as far as his sister goes, once or twice when he’s been really upset and crying he has told me (not his mom) that he really does love his sister, even though she’s annoying but he feels like we are partial to her

    mom IS…lol… that’s that 4:1 in-group preference and ‘let’s you and him fight’…

    and that we love her more and treat her better than him. That couldn’t be farther from the truth but he feels it. Again, I just don’t know how to convince him otherwise.

    set up some boundaries for him and stick to them…lol… but not kidding…

    Any ideas?

    many…lol… but whether YOU are going to be able to pull them off is the question…lol

    I want to add a couple of additional points.

    As IRL suggested, I started doing some BJJ training with my boy. Recently, I couldn’t take him for a class and he went with a friend from school. When they came back, the friend told me about what they did in class and what they learned, and my son only talked about clowning around with one of the other kids – the one who constantly acts up and jumps around and prevents everyone else from learning anything. My son is nowhere near as bad as that boy, but you get the idea. One of the instructors later told me that my son had been “awful” and “not listened to anyone” and “did whatever he wanted”. It’s partly because I wasn’t there and also the one instructor who my son respects and who keeps him in line wasn’t there that day and the rest just don’t know how to deal with him – but that’s his personality.

    i’ve heard that many… many… parents say that same sh*t when they say good bye to their son’s as they get hauled out of the courtroom…lol

    Second, one of my best friends said some pretty harsh things about my son. This guy lives in a different city so while he’s known my son from birth, he’s only met him maybe a dozen or so times in 8 years although I talk to him all the time. He really likes my daughter but called my son “manipulative”

    that’s all (((i’ve))) seen in play too…

    and “bullying” and a “jock” etc and how I should work to make him a nicer person. Now some of this is my friend’s projection – my son is a charming jock who is good at sports, doesn’t read books and is good at making friends and is the kind of kid who walks into school and half a dozen kids say hello to him while he barely notices most of them because he is replaying some soccer move in his head or something – and that triggers my friend who was (like me) a high-IQ introvert nerd in high school. But that said he has a point and I can’t ignore him completely.

    being manipulative is a learned behavior to keep kids safe in uncertain environments… it’s not good for anybody… but especially the kid… boundaries and certainty of punishment is the way to address that…

    Sentient And Mike Land And Blaximus

    Thank you for this.

    Sentient, there have been so many incidents

    ‘so many’…

    that I forgot to mention that a couple of weeks ago during one of the meltdown freakouts he actually did shove his mom quite hard.

    he’s really p*ssed off that she can get away with whatever she’s been doing…

    She wasn’t hurt but she was a bit freaked out for the first time herself. He’s still only 8, but she registered that he is getting stronger and CAN do damage.

    yep… and just remember, he’s still strong enough to kill her if he gets a knife into play…

    When I came home and heard about it, I did something I’ve never done before. I took him into another room and looked him dead in the eye and said matter of factly “This is between you and me now. I’m not going to tell your mom about this conversation. There is never a reason to push or physically attack your mom. Never. No matter how mean or unreasonable or unfair she is. Never. If you EVER hit my wife again, I WILL hit you myself, and I will not hold back like I do when we spar. You will HURT. This is never acceptable. Are we clear?”. (Of course I will still hold back – I’m not going all out on an 8 year old, but I will certainly go a lot harder than I have before, enough to make it hurt and for him to get the message). He looked subdued but he said he understood, and we’ve left it there for now.

    better get the 911 on speed dial… bc he is going to test this threat… he has to, since you haven’t been consistent with anything else… you remember we talk about guard dog situ’s spinning up?… that concept applies here too… as long as the kid keeps winning when he has to, his behavior will keep getting worse/more extreme… next thing you know the county is taking your kids… not kidding on that…

    Mike Land, thank you for the book recommendations. How did you manage to turn your daughter around? Was it similar to what Sentient is talking about? Consistently applying operant conditioning? In particular, how did you teach “decision making and consequences of bad decisions”? Because that is what my son struggles with most – he simply won’t think about “consequences” before doing anything.

    he hasn’t had to yet…. you keep making excuses for him…

    Sentient and Blaximus, thank you for the reality check reminder. I think I’ve been too relaxed despite seeing some of these behaviours build for the last couple of years

    years!!!?!!!… you need to get on this right away…

    (some of you may remember when I posted about him smashing two different babysitters’ phones in fits of rage when he was around 6) because I didn’t want to stifle him

    lol… are you trying to create a future prison hall-of-famer?…

    but clearly I’ve gone too far in the “relaxed” direction.

    true…

    I’m a lot better than mom,

    yikes!!! (<— note the three!!!…ll)

    but I still haven’t been as consistent with reward/punishment as I need to be, or as clear about the consequences of each action (good/bad). Also, it’s too easy for him to draw me into a DISCUSSION,

    that’s called manipulation…lol

    instead of simply being action by him which leads to a consequence. That is to say it is the consequence for his actions which teach him, not the discussion and explanation about it, which is secondary. I’m much less susceptible to this than his mother or grandparents but he sucks me in to discussion too sometimes. Even if I tell him to do something (not a punishment), it’s easy for him to sidetrack it by asking “Why?” instead of doing it.

    manipulation…

    I’ve told him before that he has to follow instructions first and questions will be answered later. But again, not followed it consistently enough.

    = guard dog…

    Oh and I’ve been guilty of the negotiation thing too. Not so much that I’ve conceded ground in what I tell him to do but more that I’ve been willing to make a “deal” of “if you do x, you get y”.

    lol… that what ‘conceding ground’ looks like…lol

    I don’t think that’s always a bad thing,

    yes it is…

    but I’ve probably done it too much.

    yes, you have…

    So the prescription is: more consistency, clear rewards and punishments for each action (I will make a list and put it up on the wall)

    and be ready for him to sh* test every point hard…

    and minimise refuse any and all discussion and questions.

    fify…

    I will also continue and increase spending time with him – especially 1 on 1 time with me, without his sister, which he absolutely craves and constantly asks for

    and he can get anytime he wants… he just has to act out… like when he pushed mom…

    (I don’t do much of it now because I feel bad for excluding my daughter

    how’s that FI treatin’ ya?…

    and because my wife complains that she has the kids most of the time and if I’m going to take one, then I should take both and give her a real break),

    sh*t test…

    which might help with his insistence that his sister gets more privileges and is treated better than him.

    and why do you think you have to ‘be fair’?… serous question…

    good luck!

  2. Good breakdown HABD

    So where you been?

    and why do you think you have to ‘be fair’?…

    My favorite response – “that’s why it’s called a double standard”…

  3. and a credit to olde tyme CH resident “Vagina Dominator” – wherever he may be – who was a big proponent of open hand striking. Very effective.

  4. Oh my god, he is 130lbs at best against 250lbs, what did he think was gonna happen, clearly skipped physics classes in school.

  5. @Sentient

    “So where you been?”

    busy…lol

    but that^^^ sh*t is critical mass… so i made some time…

    good luck!

  6. SJF told me once I needed to teach him “discipline without self-suppression”. I just don’t know how.

    lol… that’s bc there is no such thing…lol… SJF was talking about his adult age son… not an 8 year old… 8 year olds don’t get a vote…lol

    Heh.

    Nice.

    I got no advice. These guys covered it well. My kids, and my son didn’t actually have issues that I needed to handle. Their piers and my community left them is good stead behavior.

    (I showed this question and answer to my female medical assistant. She’s older than me. She brought up issues my son had when perhaps 13 Y.O. when she started working with me, like 13 years ago. But I dismissed it as no big deal. She used to work in pediatrics. Before coming to work for me–And she had this thing where her son couldn’t take it any more and committed suicide by jumping out of a car on an expressway. Dead. Voicing “I can’t take this shit anymore” Ouch. That. Left a mark. She still has a daughter that is 30 y.o.)

    You got a live wire on your watch and he is a special case. And more work than most. And extra work for you. Just step up and deal with it. And do the extra work and read books and google how to deal with recalcitrant sons.

    No different than if you have medical disease and wonder what the future holds.

    My saying that doesn’t need to be dis-heartening.

    Just be the best at parenting him.

    I’m really impressed by HABD’s and Sentient’s breakdown.

    I got no advice but Google Search and read the books.

    And my “discipline without self suppression” was plagiarized from a 70 year old woman–Dr. Laura Schlesinger. But she knows her shit.

    Who when asked about a boy acting badly to a younger sister, interjected about getting the boy to go and hit baseball or kick a soccer ball, or play lacrosse. IOW, redirect energies.

    You got a live wire that takes more of your energy. So be it. Rise to the occasion. Work harder and more efficiently for your son, and keep questioning why?

    Just take it under advisement to put more effort into it. And will turn out. No more mister nice guy. And when I say no, I feel guilty. Relax and do a lot of work parenting him.

    You just don’t know how? Learn how. He needs you to learn how.

    And he’s going to be good,

  7. Thank you to everyone. And particularly Having A Bad Day for taking the time to write a detailed reply like that. I hope one day I will be comfortable enough with all of this to pass it on to other men.

    I finally understand what I need to do in a way I didn’t before and I will execute.

    I have some questions about my daughter and how she’s learning BPD behaviour, but right now my son is the priority and she is only 5 so she can wait for the moment.

    The only real uncertainty I have now is getting my wife on board with the new approach. I know she will agree with me in principle but I am very doubtful of her ability to execute consistently – it’s hard enough for me. It must be even harder for her.

    I could just start doing it without her, but then I risk her undermining it. Alternatively, I could bring her along with me as First Officer to my Captain, and discuss it with her before implementing the new approach and take her suggestions on board, but then I risk getting bogged down in committee discussion about the details of punishments and her nitpicking minor aspects of it (I know she will agree with the overall idea), and there’s still no guarantee she will be able to execute consistently.

    I hope to be back here in 6 months with news of significant improvement.

  8. The Marquis, there are numerous reasons why discipline is done in private at the family level.

    What happens at the woodshed stays at the woodshed.

    At the public level we discuss what is unacceptable behavior not who is unacceptable.

  9. Society has effectively burned the woodshed down. It’s one reason we have so many ineffective males wandering the country.

    You can’t Google your way out of this situation either.

  10. Marquis

    Wake the fuck up broski.

    Your wife is NOT going to get on board with this. Full stop. YOU are going to have to lay down the LAW with her and the kids. Full stop.

    There will be [emotional] blood…

    then I risk getting bogged down in committee discussion about the details of punishments and her nitpicking minor aspects of it

    Lol. Captains issue orders. Full stop.

    You got this but only if you don’t try tip toeing through the tulips. You can’t negotiate through this, which seems to be your MO. You conflict averse?

    Yeah.

  11. Okay, here goes. First disclosure, I am a Christian. I say this not because I believe that non-Christians won’t be able to give me sound advice, but because the way that I choose to describe things might not be clear to a non-Christian. If my description of things is unclear just tell me and I will give it another go. I’m 60, been with my wife for close to 35 years. A little over a year and a half ago I discovered Rollo ( he’s a regular guest on my local morning talk show ). I listened to him regularly for a few weeks, I don’t recall exactly what he said that hit home, but it was like he’d been observing me personally. So I started reading his books, when I got to chapter 4 of Preventative Medicine and read the section on The Turning, I put the book down and just wept. My marriage is just a textbook example of that section, and I have been a text-book-beta in ALL of my relationships prior. But I wasn’t engaged in beta behavior prior to it actually being a relationship. How conditioned am I really. So since then I’ve been reading and learning and trying to internalize all of this new knowledge. I’ve been working hard on just STFU and ZFG, but ZFG puts me in a real quandary because I am commanded to “Love my wife, as Christ loved the Church”. And the sad fact of the matter is that, more often than not, I couldn’t care less. I have got myself “washing her in the water of the word”, and maybe that will help. I am still trying to recognize, and properly respond to shit-tests, and have a lot of difficulty seeing the difference between shit and comfort tests. I’d say that I recognize a shit test maybe 40% of the time, 80% if you count after the fact recognition, and my pass rate can’t be over a D-plus. I know that I need to get to the gym, but physically I’m not in bad shape, 5’9″” 175lbs. I had a good foundation courtesy USMC, and have been a postman 30-plus years, plenty of steps each day. Still, I know that I could be better.
    My wife is a neurotic harridan. 5’2″ 200lbs. Which is really sad, because she was 5’3″ 120lbs, drop-dead-gorgeous when I met her, and stayed that way until after the birth of our second child. Looking back at early photos, she was easily one of the best looking women I’ve seen, before or since, IMHO. I get that this is my fault, but I don’t understand how to undo it, and don’t know if I actually can, or if it is even possible. And I spend a reasonable amount of time convincing myself that it is worth my time and effort. I’ve learned a lot about her prior history over the last year or so, by confronting her, and paying attention to the trickle truth. She’s admitted to an n-count of 10, 3 of them being one-night-stands, and I found out that she broke-up and reunited with her first multiple times. I know that she had contact with him on occasion up until the birth of our first daughter. He died a few months after that, and I held her while she bawled her eyes out. My best guess is that she banged him more than once prior to my daughter’s birth. My own estimation of this situation, she’s was both broken, and an alpha-widow when I met her. What she says and what she does hardly ever match. Still, I have my scriptural commandments, and I feel honor bound to make the best of a bad situation. Any advice/criticism is welcome. If you need more info, just let me know. Thanks for hearing me out.

  12. I agree the man needs to be the dictator, and the enforcer of discipline.

    I have found that a pre negotiated penalty for a given bad behavior works. Similarly a pre negotiated reward for good behavior spells things out with no surprises to anyone.

    Get son/daughter/wife to negotiate the penalty/reward.

    Don’t take out garbage, negotiated penalty; 2 day loss of iPad. Son knows ahead of time what is coming if he fails.

    If you simply dictate a penalty you’ll get rebellion. If the penalty is prenegotiated the offending party knows whats coming. All you need to do is hold fast to the agreed upon penalty.

    This works, the most difficult part is holding fast to the penalty. I also discovered that my daughter suggested harsher penalties than I would have applied.

    I have done this successfully with children.

  13. @Wodan

    If she’s sticking with you, and hasn’t fucked you over yet, there might be hope for you. Often it’s not that a woman has had better. It’s that she fears you becoming better. Reassurance doesn’t do it for this sort of thing. What does is actively letting her freak out while she tries to compute why you give a fuck about her despite being the shit. Hypergamy leads her to water. But Feminism tells her the water isn’t safe to drink.

    Meditate on this.

  14. @Mike Land

    Ok, Pappy. Don’t forget to listen actively. You should be golden. Engineering questions should be easy for one such as yourself to answer. Just remember we aren’t all engineers.

  15. Wodansthane

    Stick around. Lots to unpack. Check back Wednesday.

    Mike Land.

    Come on man. Do your homework. How would you open that girl?

    Need to start there.

  16. how would I open?

    I thought about it and would go with “great bikini, that tag kind of spoils it though” or some derivative of that.

    I’m totally not against homework, and recognize I need to do much, much more.

    I need to be able to come up with openers without pondering for half a day.

  17. Welcome back, Palma.

    Bikini girl: I wouldn’t try to open direct. I’d try to get pre-selection somehow before opening her. Then I’d try to merge her into an existing set (with female(s) already” with “Hey you, come here meet my friends (…)”, maybe with a plausible “excuse” that we will play some kind of game together and another person would come in hand (which she obviously would know she is getting picked because she is hot, but still). That is the highest probability to hook that I can think of.

  18. Mike

    “how would I open?

    I thought about it and would go with “great bikini, that tag kind of spoils it though” or some derivative of that.

    I’m totally not against homework, and recognize I need to do much, much more.

    I need to be able to come up with openers without pondering for half a day.”

    https://cdn.shortpixel.ai/client/q_glossy,ret_img,w_800/https://www.babypout.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/trendy-cute-newborn-baby-for-little-girls-floral-print-overalls-pants-4.jpg

    How would you engage this girl?

    From my experience, and listening to countless women ( a shitload of ” hawt ” ones too ), there’s is no rational reason for a man to see one women so differently than another, just by first glance and observation. The thoughts men have when confronted by a girl with certain features, dressed in a certain manner, is all is his head. They will play off of that because it puts them at a distinct advantage ( their frame ), but they don’t particularly care for it as a man would, because they aren’t men.

    I looked at the link provided.

    I don’t know tha age of the bikini chick, but let’s say early 20’s just for the hell of it. What if I said that if you undressed 1,000 women her age, you wouldn’t find anything intimidating at all about her? The less clothing any woman that isn’t overweight and fugly wears, she’s automatically more attractive, and that isn’t factual, but perception.

    https://www.hawtcelebs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/priscilla-huggins-ortiz-in-bikinis-instagram-photos-and-videos-6.jpg

    Change her bikini/swimsuit, and her overall hawtness perception will fall. Not much, lol, but by degrees.

    So the idea that a different approach or open doesn’t compute for me. She’s basically just another girl with much less clothing on, and specific aesthetics I may or may not find highly attractive.

    What would Game propel me to say? Anybody else told her how wonderful her bikini was? Would I give 2 shits? An ” open ” is an open. Get good at opening people and her clothing or lack thereof will not matter. Never ever be intimidated by any female ever, full stop. You say what you’d like, and do what you want. If you’re looking, there are thousands more just like her, maybe millions, so there will always be another one if this one is not accommodation, or the level of Game isn’t quite up to par.

    Good Luck!!

  19. Blax

    Excellent reply, thanks for taking the time. Much to ponder.

    My thoughts are that an opener would need to have a degree of “context”, in this case she’s on the beach and in a bikini, not a hell of a lot more to work with. I don’t have a wing, and and anticipate flying solo on these ventures.

    From what I’ve gathered from my first pass at MM game theory some form of a playful neg open is usually best which is why what came to mind for me is using what’s available and negging the bikini. My thinking is; it doesn’t have a tag but she would instantly second guess that at which point I could follow with something like “I’m just messing with you” and engage in further convo.

    I just watched a Krauser vid where he suggested going somewhere crowded and just dreaming up openers for women in the crowd. No need to actually put them to use but get in the mind set of doing so.

    I’ve been doing a variation of that since my divorce anyway and frequently initiate conversations with anyone I encounter, men or women, young or old, just to learn. I’m going to modify this with negging to learn to calibrate. The downside is even though I make a conscious effort I live in the burbs and don’t have that many encounters with people period.

    Yes I’m planning on moving.

    In any case, great feedback and suggestions, especially the mention of 1000 girls and intimidation. My present mind set would be intimidation, which I know I have to shake. The good news is I’m not afraid to make mistakes.

  20. @Sentient @Blax

    So, I went out with “number” girl (the attention whore never replied lol). Here is what happened:

    I told her to meet me in a café in the city center, I went there 10-15 min earlier and as I got my coffee I went to look for a free table, turned out the place was packed and there were no tables, and guess what, I saw my ex and her friend (girl) sitting at a table together lol, what are the chances of all the places in the city, come on :D. Her friend saw me and I panicked lol, pretended to look for a free table a bit longer and left :D. I then quickly texted the girl I am meeting that its packed and to go somewhere else. It would’ve been so awkward for me if we had sat there ( if there were any free tables ).

    Anyway, we met up outside and walked to a different café together, talked for almost 2 hours and I said I had to go and we left.
    During the interaction I would say it was about 50:50 me and her talking. We talked about a lot of stuff – hobbies, uni/work, travelling, etc. I read somewhere about girls if they like you they will mirror your actions, so I tried leaning back or leaning forward to see if she would do the same, but didn’t happen. I think the conversation was entirely neutral and not like a man to woman conversation ( 0 sexual stuff/teasing,etc), I made her laugh a few times but that was it. Also, small thing to add, I am wearing dental braces and am quite self-conscious when laughing and stuff, and I think she picked up on that if I am not mistaken. Girls hate guys being self-conscious, right?

    Btw I expected to be nervous and stuff or not know what to say, but once we met, conversation was going well, also this is the first time I talk to a girl 1:1 that I have not met before ( either social circle or work ), so it was quite a new experience for me.

    So, what should I do now, what should I text her to get her out for a 2nd date, assuming she even agrees and hasn’t blocked me by now :D? How can I sexualize the interaction, what venue should I choose – a bar? I think there is not enough comfort for her to come to my place lol, how about going for a walk, or she said she was into museums and I like that shit too, can ask her to visit one in the city and then try to come up with an excuse to bring her home?

    Thanks

  21. @TheMarquis

    two quick points …

    +1 on Sentient’s advice… mom is never going to be ‘on board’… it’s not possible for her to do that… her hindbrain won’t let her…

    take the ipod to work with you monday morning and bring home friday night… done!…lol…

    and be ready to deal with the protesting from all 3… lol… but not kidding…

    good luck!

  22. @wodansthane

    This is a good place for you to air these problems. You’re going to get different answers, and the Bruce Lee method is strongly suggested: “Take what works, leave what doesn’t”.

    You might benefit from looking at this site if you have not already:
    https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/

    However I am not at all sure that you’d be able to discuss your issue over there.

    This site just appeared recently, he created the site in response to Dalrock’s announcements. Some of Dalrock’s regular commenters have showed up – but not all of them are up to the discussion you need.

    https://joshuas-path.com/

    It is possible you caught her on the rebound, with all that implies. There’s work to be done.

    First off, you need to take care of yourself, and that starts with physical health, and that means nutrition and exercise. Do it for yourself, not to impress her, or to please her, or to affect her in any direct way. Do it for your own reasons.

    Suggest you read Deep Strengths’ site and look at his book, it’s inexpensive in e-book form.

    More later.

  23. PalmaSailor
    Since you ask – Interesting turn of events before Xmas.

    I cannot help laughing out loud. Not at you, but with you. No matter how awkward it coulda been a whole lot more awkwarder right?

    Lol!

    Ahem. When some of us sez “There’s a hunger out there in the 20-something women for masculinity” — you see it too, yes?

  24. @Yollo, That’s an interesting observation, I WILL meditate on that. @Sentient, Thanks, will be back to read your thoughts. @Palma. Will try these and your suggested follow-through. Will update results, probably next week. @Anonymous, I have deepstrength’s book. good book. Glad you’re here. always respected and enjoyed your comments @Dalrock. Good to get such swift response from commenters I think are thoughtful.

  25. @wodansthane

    Work on your health and fitness for yourself but it will help with DHV and dread
    Start dressing better – my wife noted immediately and asked who is she, and I didn’t change much at all

    If you want to turn it around you want to be the one she fixates on, you want to become her one. work on a DHV whenever possible in every area that you can – woman thirst for authentic male competencies – that is a core feature of hypergamy

    Then start putting yourself in positions where passive dread can occur.
    Start running catch and release on the women you encounter

  26. @Wodansthane

    “I’m 60, been with my wife for close to 35 years.”

    I’m 59 and been with her for 39 years. She’s Catholic I’m Lutheran.

    “A little over a year and a half ago I discovered Rollo ( he’s a regular guest on my local morning talk show ). I listened to him regularly for a few weeks, I don’t recall exactly what he said that hit home,”

    Yup

    “but it was like he’d been observing me personally. So I started reading his books, when I got to chapter 4 of Preventative Medicine and read the section on The Turning, I put the book down and just wept. My marriage is just a textbook example of that section, and I have been a text-book-beta in ALL of my relationships prior. But I wasn’t engaged in beta behavior prior to it actually being a relationship. How conditioned am I really.”

    The conditioning runs deep and comes at us from every angle, just be happy you became aware before you became a completely boiled frog.

    “So since then I’ve been reading and learning and trying to internalize all of this new knowledge. I’ve been working hard on just STFU and ZFG, but ZFG puts me in a real quandary because I am commanded to “Love my wife, as Christ loved the Church”. And the sad fact of the matter is that, more often than not, I couldn’t care less. I have got myself “washing her in the water of the word”, and maybe that will help.”

    STFU and (Showing) ZFG doesn’t mean I don’t care or love her. STFU stops me from falling into her frame,where she doesn’t want me in the first place and ZFG shows her my emotional strength that she needs to lean on. Things can get crazy when change happens , I just go out alone and pray,it works miracles.

    “I am still trying to recognize, and properly respond to shit-tests, and have a lot of difficulty seeing the difference between shit and comfort tests. I’d say that I recognize a shit test maybe 40% of the time, 80% if you count after the fact recognition, and my pass rate can’t be over a D-plus.”

    If she is post menopause like mine at first there is no difference bettween a shit and comfort test,they are all shit tests until you prove up alpha. This feature is not premeditated rather hard wired in response to your demeanor, enjoy the entertainment value. Once you reearn alpha respect she will look to you for comfort as @Yollo suggests.

    “I know that I need to get to the gym, but physically I’m not in bad shape, 5’9″” 175lbs. I had a good foundation courtesy USMC, and have been a postman 30-plus years, plenty of steps each day. Still, I know that I could be better.”

    This is all good HT man, we can all be better. I would assume you have had at least basic weapons and hand to hand training and suggest you take a refresher course in both. Also I like to set up and clean my guns on the kitchen table from time to time.

    “My wife is a neurotic harridan. 5’2″ 200lbs. Which is really sad, because she was 5’3″ 120lbs, drop-dead-gorgeous when I met her, and stayed that way until after the birth of our second child. Looking back at early photos, she was easily one of the best looking women I’ve seen, before or since, IMHO.”

    That is how I love my wife as I remember her in our youth.

    ” I get that this is my fault, but I don’t understand how to undo it, and don’t know if I actually can, or if it is even possible. And I spend a reasonable amount of time convincing myself that it is worth my time and effort. I’ve learned a lot about her prior history over the last year or so, by confronting her, and paying attention to the trickle truth.”

    Whoa there hoss! all you can do is improve yourself,the past is done and gone ,rehashing it will drive a wedge into the relationship deeper.

    “She’s admitted to an n-count of 10, 3 of them being one-night-stands, and I found out that she broke-up and reunited with her first multiple times. I know that she had contact with him on occasion up until the birth of our first daughter. He died a few months after that, and I held her while she bawled her eyes out.”

    You had to pry this out of her,so at least she isn’t throwing it up in your face, but why did you do it? You may understand her better than she will ever understand herself. POINT because some guy made an impression on her inexperienced youth doesn’t mean he is more Alpha than you rather he was first and couldn’t hang.

    “My best guess is that she banged him more than once prior to my daughter’s birth. My own estimation of this situation, she’s was both broken, and an alpha-widow when I met her. What she says and what she does hardly ever match. Still, I have my scriptural commandments, and I feel honor bound to make the best of a bad situation. Any advice/criticism is welcome. If you need more info, just let me know. Thanks for hearing me out.”

    NOBODYS PERFECT. You don’t get a replay,nut up and do the best with what is left.

  27. Mike Land

    From what I’ve gathered from my first pass at MM game theory some form of a playful neg open is usually best which is why what came to mind for me is using what’s available and negging the bikini. My thinking is; it doesn’t have a tag but she would instantly second guess that at which point I could follow with something like “I’m just messing with you” and engage in further convo.

    Not bad. Just don’t fall into the trap of thinking an opener has to be a neg. Use negs judiciously, and in general don’t neg 7 and below.

    MM P. 35

    Women of different ratings respond differently, so pickup artists need to assess a woman’s objective social value and calibrate their game >accordingly. Furthermore, men and women will also respond differently to others based on the perception of their relative difference in social status. >Seeking rapport, for instance, is often an easy way to open a conversation with a set of 7s but will only get you blown out with a set of 10s. Being >cocky and challenging, which 9s and 10s absolutely love, will often cause a 6 or a 7 to react in a nasty way.

    An opener is the part that allows you to a) get close to her and b) buy some time to start to DHV. So don’t sweat the opener and if in doubt, don’t make it about her, but something more general that will disarm her wariness and allow you to DHV.

    MM P. 72

    OPENERS
    An opener is a short story or statement used to get a group’s attention and earn their acceptance of your presence. It is not a time to formally introduce yourself or hit on the hot girl in the set. Using a direct opener such as, “Wow, you are beautiful; my name is Glen,” may convey confidence, but it also alienates your target’s friends if present. Since women of beauty are rarely found alone, we must engage the entire group without hitting on the girl prematurely. For this reason Venusian artists make effective use of an indirect opener. Here is an indirect opener of mine that opened nearly every I mixed set I ran it on:

    Mystery: Oh my God. Did you guys see the girl fight outside?

    Girls: [Cut them off before they speak.]

    Mystery: They were fighting over this guy. I talked to him
    afterward. His name was Glen, That’s a deal-breaker name. Glen. So
    they were pulling each other’s hair and one of the girls’ boobs pops out,
    Normally I’m all for seeing a ripe one, but this was a “saggy-baggy
    booby”… you know, from National Geographic.
    Go immediately into next routine,

    **You may feel this dialogue won’t miraculously make a woman fall for you, and you are right. It’s not designed to.** Sure, it’s designed to be fun and appear spontaneous, but the power of this gambit comes from what it doesn’t do. Unlike a typical direct opener, no IOIs are conveyed to the target. To do so at this time would surely compromise your chances of survival were you to hit on the married woman with her husband present. We must discover the group’s relationship dynamics before giving IOIs. This approach will make you appear naturally confident and not insecurely bold. Notice there is no talk about the fact that you are presently speaking to them. It is designed to convey personality first.

    So what could you do here, with a girl by herself (?) on the beach, in a bikini?

    Come up with three possible openers that would allow you to segue into a DHV story… You know the sequence right? A1>A2>A3?

  28. Openers are not magik, incantations, spells…

    If in doubt, mind blank, moving targets etc…

    “hey” is reliable.

  29. wodansthane

    [TRIGGER WARNING] so this is going to be succinct and sugar free…

    Okay, here goes. First disclosure, I am a Christian. I say this not because I believe that non-Christians won’t be able to give me sound advice, but because the way that I choose to describe things might not be clear to a non-Christian.

    So why the “Wodan’s Thane” moniker? Are you repressing something? That would be very, very Christian of you… what’s wrong with being a pagan? If the philosophy allows you to get what you want? why be a christian if the philosophy doesn’t get you what you want? I know, I know, great is your reward in heaven… etc.

    Hypergame doesn’t care that you are a [insert]

    I’m 60, been with my wife for close to 35 years.

    52 and going on 30 myself… Just so you know.

    A little over a year and a half ago I discovered Rollo ( he’s a regular guest on my local morning talk show ). I listened to him regularly for a few weeks, I don’t recall exactly what he said that hit home, but it was like he’d been observing me personally. So I started reading his books, when I got to chapter 4 of Preventative Medicine and read the section on The Turning, I put the book down and just wept. My marriage is just a textbook example of that section, and I have been a text-book-beta in ALL of my relationships prior.

    Very, very common… Just so you know.

    But I wasn’t engaged in beta behavior prior to it actually being a relationship.

    Yeah, you know why right? Because ALPHA is attractive. You displayed juuuuust enough to get her hooked. Then YOU changed. she didn’t.

    I’ve been working hard on just STFU and ZFG, but ZFG puts me in a real quandary because I am commanded to “Love my wife, as Christ loved the Church”. And the sad fact of the matter is that, more often than not, I couldn’t care less. I have got myself “washing her in the water of the word”, and maybe that will help.

    Good initial steps in general. But, WHY are you doing the work? Because you’ve been commanded to? Really try and unplug. Suicide is prohibited friend, isn’t it?

    WHAT DO YOU WANT from this?

    There really shouldn’t be any quandry, you’ve been sold a bill of goods to keep you enslaved and toiling. what does the bible say about women??? How has she broken her vows? Christianity only kinda works in an LTR when both agree to be bound by it. And we know from Eve that women can never really meet that test… and it will be your fault… lol

    The Red Pill is truth. It is more than just intersexual dynamics.

    I am still trying to recognize, and properly respond to shit-tests, and have a lot of difficulty seeing the difference between shit and comfort tests.

    They are ALL shit tests. all of them. Every single one. Designed to test you and ensure to HER that YOU really ARE that beta she really despises… Not that Alpha she hopes for. 35 years of undoing to do man… Loooooong pattern of behavior.

    The good news is you CAN flip the switch. The bad news is you are going to have to go all in on YOU and a lot of the Churchian stuff you’ve been fed is going to be puked, shat and oozed out of you in blood along the way. But hey that blood oozing thing is very Christian right?

    Flip the switch

    Go all in on YOU

    [Watch The Gambler to figure out how to get to a “fuck you” position]

    I’d say that I recognize a shit test maybe 40% of the time, 80% if you count after the fact recognition, and my pass rate can’t be over a D-plus.

    80% will increase to 95% and eventually you will have real time recognition. Just feel… Are you negotiating with her? Are you worried about making her mad? Are you scared of her response? Do you feel disrespected? As a servant?

    Shit tests shit tests shit tests…

    You won’t get ANY comfort tests until she is sure you can leave her at any moment and replace her with hotter, younger, tighter. and the tests will be sadness tinged with regret… It will be honest. Not an attempt to get you to apologize. It will be surrender.

    So do NOT worry about any comfort tests for a looong time. Like until hotter girls are calling up the house and asking for you. lol

    I know that I need to get to the gym, but physically I’m not in bad shape, 5’9″” 175lbs.

    Drop ten lbs anyway and get defined. For YOU. And it will send a massive signal that you aren’t fucking around any more. You are preparing to move on.

    My wife is a neurotic harridan. 5’2″ 200lbs.

    Why would you want to win her back? serious question as HABD would say. She’s that valuable to you? How? Why aren’t you thinking about side girls? Oh yeah, Christian… Tell that to David etc…

    Which is really sad, because she was 5’3″ 120lbs, drop-dead-gorgeous when I met her, and stayed that way until after the birth of our second child. Looking back at early photos, she was easily one of the best looking women I’ve seen, before or since, IMHO.

    Wife Goggles. In six months you could easily replace her with a 35 year old Pilates instructor that would fuck you in ways your wife never would in your wildest dreams. In a year it could be a 25 year old…

    This stuff works. and it is going to shake your foundational beliefs. And that is a good thing…

    I get that this is my fault, but I don’t understand how to undo it, and don’t know if I actually can, or if it is even possible. And I spend a reasonable amount of time convincing myself that it is worth my time and effort.

    Undo it? Change her into a 125lb sweet natured sex maniac who worships you? Probably not going to happen. Get her to drop 20lbs and be more pleasant. Absolutely.

    But the real change is going to be you. Be careful, the slope is slippery.

    I’ve learned a lot about her prior history over the last year or so, by confronting her, and paying attention to the trickle truth. She’s admitted to an n-count of 10, 3 of them being one-night-stands, and I found out that she broke-up and reunited with her first multiple times. I know that she had contact with him on occasion up until the birth of our first daughter. He died a few months after that, and I held her while she bawled her eyes out. My best guess is that she banged him more than once prior to my daughter’s birth.

    Yeah. Just let this go man. Nothing you can do about it. Just part of that Churchian wanting to hurt yourself…

    My own estimation of this situation, she’s was both broken, and an alpha-widow when I met her.

    Yeah, No. Just part of that Churchian white knight complex. Doodbro. She took side cock when it suited her hypergamous needs. Sorry. Move forward, but don’t make excuses.

    what’s your experience with women like? Is she the first?

    What she says and what she does hardly ever match.

    what’s your experience with women like? Is she the first? lol. Don’t listen to what they say, watch what they DO. Always, in all ways.

    Still, I have my scriptural commandments, and I feel honor bound to make the best of a bad situation.

    Hypergamy doesn’t give a fuck about your scriptural commandments. Or what a misplace sense of honor binds you to do.

    Hey try this – WWWD

    What Would Wodan Do?

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/77/b1/f777b1d9fa6828065a543cf9283e380b.jpg

  30. *Have decided to set the scene, arrive late at night one night next week and hit her up again at Tempe end of her shift for banana 911. straight from the bar to my kitchen.

    You could hit my front door from the pub if you threw a ball.

    Observations?*

    Sounds like a plan Palma. You should sniff out the logistics first before you commit to the invite. Avoid the “ohhh I’m meeting friends” or “ooooh my aunt’s cat is sick” blah blah blah.

    A bit of background – I’m not doing phone numbers, instead I’ve decided with VYW the only way to go is straight linear escalation.

    “testing the truth of the situation”… I like it with these kinds. There are so many flirts and time wasters in the service industry. Put the feeler out there. “I am not your mark, nor your friend”…

  31. Thanks for the comments Sentient

    I have read MM and watched a number of videos. So far it’s conceptual, however I am comfortable opening conversations with strangers. What I need is the structure of MM.

    The 3 stages of learning are see, do, teach. I am still well in the see portion. You have reinforced what I’ve read. It’s time to apply (do) and calibrate. I’ve also been thinking of “routines” and writing them down, honing my stories, hooks etc and practicing out loud just as I do for presentations. Most of my stories have been told many times before but editing to remove self deprecation and insert DHV’s is my agenda now. My blue pill conditioning had me purposely insert self deprecation and avoid DHV’s so it’s a bit of reconditioning to edit, but I’m getting there. One advantage of being a little more “seasoned” is I do have a lot of experiences to tap into.

  32. On a different note I’m going to vent a little here, and I know the solution to this problem is within myself.

    I’m divorced now for 3 years after a 10 year relationship. I’m still angry. After reading TRM and a bunch of other psych I see what went wrong (me becoming a beta simp). I’m still angry, and was angry in the tail end of the marriage for all of the ungratefulness.

    I literally built a house for that woman, as in with my own hands, from foundation to roof and everything inside. I gave up all of my interests to support hers. She never even said thank you. At the time I thought trying harder would finally build “relationship equity”, but what I got was complaints and insults.

    I’m still pissed. I know it’s water under the bridge, and all those other platitudes. Here I am significantly financially wounded, sitting in the ashes with not even an acknowledgement for how hard I busted my ass for so long.

    I know I govern my own mood, outlook etc but the petty part of me wants revenge, justice, or even just a simple acknowledgement. I also know it’s stupid and not forthcoming.

    Rant over, time to hunt down some strange and get some affirmational sex.

  33. Mike Land

    the petty part of me wants revenge, justice, or even just a simple acknowledgement. I also know it’s stupid and not forthcoming.

    You may be surprised yet. Maybe a few years from now, when you are killing it… and she pops up out of the woodwork and tells you she was an idiot and wants you back. It’s fairly standard.

    Now don’t hold onto this as any kind of hope. It’s just further evidence that this shit works. It’s a natural result.

  34. @wodansthane

    you are getting great advice… +1 on Sentient’s breakdown… read that breakdown through at least five times (not a typo…lol) with a couple hour break between each read-through… (@Sentient – good breakdown… thanks for picking up my slack…lol)

    some quick points…

    most important first step:

    But, WHY are you doing the work? … WHAT DO YOU WANT from this?

    you need to have a goal/end point to work toward… and having your personal “come to jesus” talk with yourself is the key… do this first…

    next, that

    Loooooong pattern of behavior.

    applies to YOU… she only reacts and sh*t tests to confirm her prior assessments… the sooner YOU flip that switch (and hold your frame <— key point…lol) the faster it can turn around for both of you…

    third, you need to understand this concept well – you don’t need to ‘cheat’ (<— and note that pejorative concept well…lol) to be effective/alpha stud/arousing in RP ltr/marriage… not just christian dudes have a problem with this concept but it affects them quite a bit… it’s mostly a buffer… against doing the work…

    what you NEED is OPTIONS… what you do with those options once you have those options is up to you… but how you decide to act on those options once you have them is irrelevant to being attractive to your wife/ltr… (it will come up as a sh*t test though…lol)

    this is one of those concepts that gets glossed over in the analysis for ltr/marriage… just like you can’t ‘negotiate desire’ with your ltr/wife… SHE can’t stop herself from being attracted/aroused when you flip those switches… you’ve heard ‘attraction is not a choice’… that’s true even though the bible says ‘you can’t cheat’…lol

    if that^^^ (you can’t cheat idea) is even in play, it’s a sh*t test/diagnostic for you bc you have lost the frame…

    note – she WILL use this concept to leverage social pressure on you to get back on the reservation…

    finally,

    Don’t listen to what they say, watch what they DO. Always, in all ways.

    THIS^^^ will always be in play…lol… just think about it like she is a matador and you are the bull…lol…(and not in a good way…lol)… she’ll wave her red cape (talk/emotions/sh*t tests/etc) at you to get you to react… and then when you do, she can move you anywhere she wants… and set you up for a kill shot…

    sooo, don’t react…lol… and watch what she does…

    also, it wouldn’t hurt you to start keeping a list of her rolodex of sh*t tests either…

    good luck!

  35. Palma

    *I think it needs more plausible deniability? – it just happened.. etc..

    Any ideas?*

    Yes it’s this – and isolation. They are in a safe space there and get to get their titillation and validation from you and go home and take it out on their guys. Because they don’t have a way to offer it up to you and not be slutty. Direct to your house is too big a step, they know what’s up. So arrange something else, going to another place to try some food or drink, a party, a show/band etc. Something with others around initially where at least you can isolate her in the crowd from her friend and other people who know her… Then game back to your place per usual.

    even randy old sluts want to play the game…

  36. @PalmaSailor

    sorry to hear about your son, but that story about his friend was funny…lol…

    i know much communication is lost over the interwebs (and more so from second-hand telling), but that story about about your son not wanting to see you, but you still getting a christmas card from him would lead me to believe that he is caught in the middle… and being a kid, he is resolving it in the way that results in the least amount of distress/stress/anxiety wrt his daily life… it sounds like he still wants to keep the lines of communication with you open…

    how are you fixed for stationary? you could start sending him an update sort of note once a week… nothing fancy or involved, just a ‘i’m doing this, this week’ sort of ‘keep in touch’ note… a couple of minutes and a stamp… probably couldn’t hurt…

    of course, you could always show up at some school event as ‘charlotte’s’ new bf…lol

    good luck!

  37. Palma

    You get my point?

    Yup. They have great cover stories… Definitely one approach. have them both over…

    Another approach, the old “reverse psychology” gambit… “You’re just a tease” “you’re a big talker” “you couldn’t handle it” “you probably suck in bed”… All coy..

    I have one local waitress like this as well, always wanted to hug and touch and even taken to calling me “stud”… lol “That’s Mr. Stud to you”… But I’ve started to pull back from her kino… be shorter than usual, pay more attention to others etc. see if she amps it up or just playing.

  38. I know I govern my own mood, outlook etc but the petty part of me wants revenge, justice, or even just a simple acknowledgement. I also know it’s stupid and not forthcoming.

    If you didn’t get justice or revenge in court during the divorce don’t count on it anywhere else. I would be quite surprised if you did get any of that in court.

    Being financially bruised sucks. I know how that plays out and the long term impact. You can recover with time and hard work. The other stuff? It’s all ego man. You can move past that when you want to. If you decide not to then good luck holding onto worthless shit. Something to consider moving forward, only build stuff that you for damn sure want/need and can have for yourself. If you end up sharing it with another woman that’s great. But reconsider building things for other people if in the end you aren’t going to enjoy it with them. That’s not to mean close your heart down and don’t be generous or giving. Just go easy on building houses and big expensive things for a while until you are in a good place with yourself.

    Most guys on here won’t admit it, but ego plays a huge role in all the hurt, angst and quest for revenge and justice. At some point you have to chose living for yourself, and that doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll get the “justice” that your ego is clamoring for. The positive angle to that is you’ve admitted it is petty and stupid.

  39. Roused

    Most guys on here won’t admit it, but ego plays a huge role in all the hurt, angst and quest for revenge and justice.

    Ego is also responsible for a lot of success and a sense of self worth.

  40. Update on my situation. She signed (reluctantly), made things a bit faster. Papers went through. I’m officially divorced.

  41. @IAS

    I’m officially divorced.

    ’bout time, dude…lol

    congrats!…

    feels better, right?…

    good luck!

  42. @PalmaSailor

    You’re thinking posting the odd physical thing rather than text etc…

    Drawing a cock on things used to cause us both a laugh, perhaps I’ll have to take it back to basics.

    something like that…lol

    the medium is the message… the fact that you mail something to him consistently is what counts, not so much what it is… think of it like a moral booster for the hostage…

    good luck!

  43. IAS

    Simultaneously, congratulations and condolences.

    Now, Life is up to you and what you understand moving forward, and you will move forward.

    Best wishes man.

  44. @HABD: yes it does feel better. Whether residual BP conditioning or not, I was never 100% comfortable with “cheating”. I was often wondering what kind of Frame or MPoO is this if I have to worry about her finding out about whatever.

    But it was more than just that… I am unable to lift her from her own sadness – I told her since before I was RP her happiness was her responsibility and I believe that. One can talk Burden of Performance, but one can just as well mention Captain Save-a-Ho (I still cringe a bit about using this terminology, I’m fairly sure she never cheated and is still N=1, but you know what I mean)… For some years, she was no longer a net positive contribution to my life, and the analysis gets downright grim if I consider the opportunity cost (i.e. even if she was a net positive, there were other opportunities which were much more positive).

    @Sentient: I’ve pretty much learnt to sing “Call your girlfriend” by now, LOL.

    Tell her not to get upset second-guessing everything you said and done.
    And then when she gets upset tell her you never mean to hurt no one.

    @Blax, kfg: thanks for your support, it is appreciated.

    @Palma: welcome back to the FR section and thank you too.

  45. PalmaSailor
    I’m out of options apart from keeping communication open, but critically, she’s out of ammunition, there really isn’t any more she can launch. So when he decides to break free it’ll be a big deal.

    The Rolodex is finite. Girls have only so many ways they can pick a fight or otherwise attempt to start trouble. There’s times when a man doesn’t believe that, he says to himself “Crap, here’s another different one!” but that’s just taking counsel of fear.

    He’s gonna age out of her control, and at some level in the back of her head she knows that, sooooo she’s surely doubled down on the shit…but there’s only so many cards in the deck.

    You’re holding out just fine. You’ll outlast her game. So will your son.

  46. @IAS – congratulations on the divorce.

    @Palma – welcome back. Hope your break from TRM left you refreshed.

    @All – re the “hot bikini girl open” – assuming you had to open her exactly as in the picture (ie, she is alone – rare for a hot girl – and strolling on the beach), then I would do a variation of what IAS suggested. Ideally max your social proof with hot girls (but even any girls is better than none and male friends is better than alone) and then walk past her and make some kind of dismissive gesture (not insulting as such). Something like smirking (not smiling) at her and shaking your head and giving her a thumbs down as you walk past. It’s crucial not to go direct here (unless you are literally Hollywood star levels of value way above her – AND SHE KNOWS IT), so this is basically a neg, but with a few tweaks – the main one being it engages her and engages her curiosity without being insulting.

    That should give you enough of a reaction to begin a conversation (note: do your best not to engage on the question of why you gave the thumbs down gesture – draw that anticipation out as long as possible).

    PS – Re Blax’s post – he’s absolutely correct, but remember he’s a Natural who already has his mindset where it should be. Doing what Blax suggests WILL NOT WORK unless your mind and attitude and body language and subcommunications also match Blax’s. For most men, you have to think a little more and be a bit more planned than Blax -but Blax is where you want to end up.

    It’s kind of like the Bruce Lee quote – I may be misremembering but something like – “First a punch was just a punch, then it was so much more, then it was just a punch again” – well, Blax is at the “just a punch again” stage so he’s telling you “it’s just a punch”. But to get to that stage you first have to learn to get to the “it is so much more than a punch” stage, and then internalize those lessons so you execute them unconsconsciously without thought, and then you will be at the “it’s just a punch again” final stage.

  47. Culum Struan
    thank you for introducing me to this platform of field reports. and also thank you for your advice. I will start reading some basic stuff about game and start talking to girls right away.
    thank you again

  48. @ wodansthane

    Apologies for the delay, I’m still working over a reply to you in my head. I have two thoughts for now.

    First, while physical improvement is very important – lifting will increase your circulating T, changing the way you move, the way you speak, your vocal timbre and even the way you smell, all key stuff her hindbrain needs – the inner Game / mindset is equally important. I suggest you start carefully reading, re-reading and meditating on the relevant parts of Ephesians: you have authority over her. You don’t need her agreement, you don’t need some pastor to tell you “it’s ok”, you don’t need a zillion internet commenters to agree with you. Even if she doesn’t agree, your pastor doesn’t agree, the whole internet doesn’t agree – you still hold the Office of Husband. Convince yourself of your authority. Once your mindset is solid, you will think differently, therefore you will speak / move / act differently. I don’t men table-thumping “Ahm the MAN!”, most communication is nonverbal and your subcommunications are probably not as good right now as they need to be. Getting your mind right will affect your subconscious and therefore subcommunications.

    Second, consider either reviving your blog or keeping a progress diary. Writing / typing things up focuses the mind and helps to clarify thoughts. Many men used Dalrock’s blog to hash out their mental issues over the years. In any endeavor writing up plans, then after-event reports makes a big difference – we can avoid making the same mistakes over and over again, eventually, by writing stuff down. It can be as simple as something like “Was in the bedroom changing a light bulb, she came the door in a pissy state and started running passive-aggressiveness “What are you doing?”. Used Agree – Amplify by saying “I’m putting in a black light so that my old Jimmy Hendrix posters will look cool”, she stuttered and then left. Shit test deflected!”

    More later. This is one of those times when I think it would be best if I wrote up a comment offline, edited it, reworded it then posted it.

    PS: It’s a longer term project. When you mess up one shit test, don’t ruminate over it or catastrophize “Oh, NO!”, it’s more like missing a play in sports. “Ok, I’ll get the next one right”.

  49. PalmaSailor

    Yer up early, if I read my clock right.

    (Owns a CL600 so I knew he wouldn’t be woke and be OK

    Wot, an electric screwdriver? Really? I admit it does look wicked, but still…

    https://hios.com/EN/products/driver/CL-6000/

    Me: I used HP5 and microphen developer, you can push it up to 3200ASA for brilliant low light stuff but you have to increase the processing temperature up to about 25degree C

    Her : starry eyed says – teach me…

    Well, there’s that hunger again. Now you can talk about fine grain vs. coarse grain…as you prefer.

    This reminds me, when I was in high school I spent some time doing photo work for the student newspaper. One of the cuter girls did likewise, this was in film-only days. I thought she was smart. One day she was running some 120mm film through the developing cycle and didn’t understand what had happened, the printed pictures looked odd. They had strange bubbles and streaks. So ok, I looked at what she was doing. She’d read the developing chart and assumed that the max temp allowable was the standard, normal developer temp, so she pushed developer fluid temp up to over 90 degrees F or 40 degrees C.

    It did develop fast, I’ll admit. But peeling the image off of the backing is not a good thing. I realized that she was cute but dumb.

  50. I became the third generation owner of the family Leica M3 just as I had backed completely out of film. Is a puzzlement.

  51. SMSL AD18 driving KEF Q100s, smart TV or tablet as transport, but in the 20th century I did run a Dynaco into AR-4xs.

    Oddly enough, since digital gear and media can be made so compact these days, the more of it I deploy the more Victorian my house returns to looking. No more Wall o’ LPs and VHS tapes and even 2.5″ drives are starting to look old and clunky to me. TVs and monitors of quite substantial screen size can be made to disappear when they aren’t actually in use. Even some lamps are returning to cordless.

  52. M3’s? Now we are tawkin

    But yeah those 12 cylinder monsters are so sweet. You can get them now 80-90% depreciated, low miles… $25k to $35K mid aughts…

    Renntech chip for $1200 and you are over 700/700…

  53. M3’s or any luxo performance auto are only for 2 kinds of people.

    1) those that are mechanically inclined enough to service them themselves.
    2) those who can afford to pay to have them serviced, and can get rid of these things after 2-3 years of ownership.

    Just be prepared to take a financial hit. Value falls through the floor.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9v4j6-nHK5Q

    Copious use of cheap plastics in the engine bay is rendering beemers as notoriously unreliable over time and mileage.

    In the 80’s I had a 750il that I absolutely adored. Beautiful car. But to save money I almost had to become a certified BMW service mechanic. Right around 50k miles, it constantly required some manner of service, and it was always labor intensive. I kept it for a while, but I’d only drive it on weekends or to the shore/ac.

    Damn….that was a gorgeous car.

  54. Stefan

    missed your FR

    It would’ve been so awkward for me if we had sat there ( if there were any free tables ).

    If your prior GF was as hot or hotter than the number girl, it would have worked in your favor to be there with them both. preselction is the most powerful of attraction switches.

    Anyway, we met up outside and walked to a different café together, talked for almost 2 hours and I said I had to go and we left.
    During the interaction I would say it was about 50:50 me and her talking.

    This is good stuff. remember, in your place, as a noob, this is the kind of practice you are looking for now. The rest will come in time. Go do another dozen dates like this…

    I think the conversation was entirely neutral and not like a man to woman conversation ( 0 sexual stuff/teasing,etc), I made her laugh a few times but that was it.

    Again, this is great. This is all you want from these dates atm. Just get used to going out with girls, meeting, logistics, and having a convo, getting her to laugh a bit. That’s good enough for now. Go do another dozen of these dates…

    Girls hate guys being self-conscious, right?

    Right. So knock that shit off…

    Btw I expected to be nervous and stuff or not know what to say, but once we met, conversation was going well, also this is the first time I talk to a girl 1:1 that I have not met before ( either social circle or work ), so it was quite a new experience for me.

    Yeah. You did great. Reference experience is important. You lived! Now go do 12 more dates like this…

    So, what should I do now, what should I text her to get her out for a 2nd date, assuming she even agrees and hasn’t blocked me by now :D? How can I sexualize the interaction, what venue should I choose – a bar? I think there is not enough comfort for her to come to my place lol, how about going for a walk, or she said she was into museums and I like that shit too, can ask her to visit one in the city and then try to come up with an excuse to bring her home?

    Slow your roll tiger… Just try to have another date like you had. Just text her anything to start up the convo again and pitch a meet. maybe in a park or something, nothing static, so you can walk around, get something to eat while walking, maybe hold her hand a little. Sloooow it down. You just want some good basic reference experiences now. This is the first time. Now go do 12 more dates like this.

    Then we can talk about next steps…

  55. Palma

    So I think I’ll say we’ll do a late night low light session at the beech and then well walk back and develop the film in my kitchen.

    She can probably borrow the stuff from college and we’ll need a dark bag, thermometer, graduated measuring vessels, and a film development tank – preferably with a stainless spiral.

    I buy the film and chemicals (bc she’s broke student) and we’ll take it from there.

    Plausible deniability + massive DHV + Isolation + wine + escalation = bang

  56. On the photography front.

    I’d shoot something forgiving like a TX 400. Teach bracketing and go on a photo safari. Bathroom developing is somewhat easy. Arrange for late afternoon shoot, develop after. Loading dev tanks after dark in a closed bathroom is safe and no dark bag required. Bring a practice roll to teach loading. do the first in the lit room with the practice roll.

    Load the real roll in the dark together in the darkened bathroom. Things should develop.

    Processing the film is easy enough, hang in the bathroom. Raising the humidity is required for dust control, best done with a hot shower.

    Hang the film and kill time.

    Contacts and printing done at a rental lab close to a restaurant or bar.

    I need to find a woman interested in photography…

  57. @Wahoo. Actually, she has thrown it in my face, while we were in bed. Hard not to take that personally. But you’re right, can’t fix the past. Thanks for clarifying some of these concepts. It will be a big help going forward, @ Sentient. “Trigger warning”, really?! Glad I have kittens and coloring books on hand. Seriously though, thanks. It’s easier to take straight. The moniker is from when I was a practicing heathen. Conflicted I may be, but not repressed. Not with that anyway. She’s not my first, wife. My experience, n-count under 20. Yeah, I get that this is going to be seismic. Still trying to process the little I’ve learned. Oh, by the way, David was a Jew. @Centuries. Thanks for the advice, works right in with what everyone else is telling me. @Anonymous. Thanks for the reminder about Ephesians, and the encouragement. No hurry on the rest of it. These other commenters have loaded my plate up. A lot to digest here. Got a lot more than I bargained for. I am beginning to get an idea of just how much work this is going to be.

  58. Palma- only thing I would add re the photographer barmaid strategy is that you need to be sure the flirty/sexual/man to woman vibe is there.

    She certainly enjoys talking to you but it’s not clear to me if there has been sexualisation (sexual topics? Laser? Cutting distance? Kino?)

    Basically – the strategy is good but just be sure she doesn’t think she’s going for a platonic photo session with a guy who reminds her of her dad.

  59. New to this forum, and just realized I should be using the reply button, duh.

    I know a thing or three about photography. My darkroom is crated up for redeployment at my next house. I have a few thousand feet of film in the freezer, a locker full of lenses and a few film bodies.

    Shooting is easy fun, developing film relatively easy. Printing is a lot more involved.

    I’m writing this from the perspective of what I would do if given this opportunity, not as advice. I’m highly interested in feedback on weaknesses in my theoretical approach.

    My approach would be thus. I would talk about experiences and avoid any hint of giving advice. In these chats I’d be dropping many DHV’s both in photography, but also relationships and other social DHV’s. My objective would be to allow her to view you as an interesting and sexual being. I’d be trying to have her consider you as a lover by way of making it her idea.

    I’d suggest a photo safari with forgiving 400 speed or faster film. TMX 3200 pulled to 1600 is very easy to shoot. I shoot Nikon F mount and would bring a digital body to swap in and check exposure. Early success in her exposures will keep the excitement going. Light meters can be dealt with later. Make the exercise easy.

    Film developing in a bathroom is easy (at night) and offers enough dead time when the film is drying to escalate things.

    I would defer printing to another time. I would look for a place that rents darkroom time, unless you already have a darkroom. I still remember my first print coming up in the dev bath, very exciting. Film scanning is another option. Much easier, but diminishes the “purity” of the film experience.

    Pulling back though I’d try to figure why she’s enamored with film. I suspect someone romanticized it a being more pure or some such BS. I was a long time film shooter but haven’t shot a frame of film since getting a low noise full frame SLR. The digital benefits are myriad. I suspect the limitations and extra effort/expense of film will dissuade her.

    I’d aim to be there for the journey of discovery with the larger objective of letting her grow to see you as a prospect over the course of 2-3 shooting/darkroom days. My exposure to game is purely from reading so far but I’d be following the MM for now and this whole exercise sounds like an excellent way to do so.

    For me the I would have to work hard to suppress any beta instincts. This seems like a perfect way to show contextual alpha and take advantage of the teacher/student alpha dynamic.

  60. I’d suggest a photo safari with forgiving 400 speed or faster film. TMX 3200 pulled to 1600 is very easy to shoot. I shoot Nikon F mount and would bring a digital body to swap in and check exposure. Early success in her exposures will keep the excitement going. Light meters can be dealt with later.

    Hey man, I used to be a photojournalist back in the day. Nothing like getting a woman to drop her panties when you mention Tri-X film, Dektol, D76 and whats your favorite f-stop. It’s F8 and be there…right? Gets you laid in the darkroom!

    Uh, dude. Full stop. Please. Stop talking about these technical bits….they are esoteric and fun to discuss cuz all that stuff is historical now. Hope you realize I was joking in my first graph….right?

    So after I did my photojournalism gig I started a entertainment website for some of our markets. I got a photo gallery thing going and hired a bunch of fun interns who had people skills. We used cheap point and shoot cameras with enormous success. You would not believe how much fun it was and what women would do if you had any skills at creating an instant vibe with them. Lots of good times and many pix that never got published, because, well, they were flashing me or too much ass was showing etc… Photo shoots absolutely have to be fun and you need to create rapport with your subject. Most people need to be put at ease as they are nervous about their looks etc…that is your job. Use light to your advantage and kino is an absolute must. Use kino to move them. literally adjusting their bodies.

    Leave the technical bits for others, most people don’t care what you’re shooting with unless they are a shooter or a nerd.

  61. Palma

    I agree with your BB comment on discussing lenses etc. I mentioned that here to qualify myself to this audience.

    What I intended to get accross was to use mastery of photography to make the endeavor successful and seem easy.

    If she has an easy win, so too shall you.

  62. Thanks for the plan analysis, exactly what I need.

    My understanding of your plan for her to fail, is this to have her express DLV and then try to qualify to you?

    Given further thought I think I see that having her succeed would give her a DHV and reduce eliminate the need to qualify to you. Have I got that right?

    My only thought would be that you would need to show a success for yourself where she fails to demonstrate higher value. Is your DHV based on showing your body of work or by some other method?

    Please help me dissect this as I see this ploy being something I might entertain myself. I have a similar background, and frankly miss shooting professionally (but not the lack of $$ that comes with it)

  63. Palma

    you are exactly right on my status. I have a lot of deep seated conditioning to shake.

    I see this as an obvious AMOG situation with her failure as a DLV and your mastery as a DHV being on deck

    the nuts and bolts of execution are my obvious deficiency.

    I look forward to a deeper dissection

  64. Mike Land

    I see this as an obvious AMOG situation with her failure as a DLV and your mastery as a DHV being on deck

    Say what? Go back and reread MM.

    It’s DHV to get IOIs, and IOIs to get compliance. With compliance you get to sex.

    That’s it. It’s not about photography. It’s not about making her a better photographer.

  65. @Stefan

    That first comment has some sad truth to it.
    Scrolling down it’s good to see multiple comments with the words “cold approach” in a favorable way.

  66. “I don’t know of any old guys not getting laid that are laying down practical advice here.”

    Lol. It’s reddit. Guys ( not men ) talking about ” hot young teenagers ” is informative enough.

    ” Practical ” advice : How fast can I get sex from a super hot young girl that is out of my league, as in the past they have thrown rocks at my head. No advice from old guys who have never had hot women throw rocks at their heads because you don’t know what it’s like in ( current year ).

    It’s All Different.

    Even rocks are different now.

  67. Palmasailor
    The manosphere and Red Pill has hit the Sunday Times

    Lol, sort of. Those sort of articles are usually along the lines of anthropological expeditions to some island or remote jungle.

    “The natives practice curious rituals, we attempted to record them. The natives gave us each a bead!” stuff. I like the bit in the opening about “Methods used by ISIS”.

    Reminds me of this totally horrifying thing:

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/bizarre/sicko-marriage-contract-one-ages

    Page one:
    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/sicko-marriage-contract-one-ages?page=0

    The only thing wrong with most of this document is the spergy guy putting it all down on paper.

    PS: For the record, I’m opposed to kidnapping in any form.

  68. @ Sentient. Reading your response for the fourth time, one more to go as prescribed by HABD. A lot of work ahead, physical and mental, thanks again. As to WWWD? I think he’d next her.

  69. @Wodansthane

    Thanks for posting. I’ll offer some very honest, Red-Pilled advice. Take it how you wish but at 55 I speak from experience. I’m in great shape, bang girls in their early 20’s and live my life the way I want.

    **I’m 60, been with my wife for close to 35 years.

    I stopped reading right here and knew where the rest of this was going. But I’ll highlight a few points:

    ***I have been a text-book-beta in ALL of my relationships prior. But I wasn’t engaged in beta behavior prior to it actually being a relationship.

    We’re talking 35 years ago….the fact of the matter is you’re now in a position of trying to fix something that is broken and you’re in a denial using Christianity as some sort of rationalization for suffering through the rest of your life with a woman who clearly no longer respects you.

    My serious advice is to end this. You say you’re in good shape and at 60 you can do so much better than where you are now. Your kids are most likely grown so there’s no real reason to make yourself miserable.

    The game tactics: not recognizing shit tests at age 60? You have a long way to go to reverse 35 years of complacency where both of you are set in your ways and accustomed to your “roles” in this sad excuse for a relationship. No amount of “Game” will help pull you through.

    The more you start gaming your wife of 35 years the more she’ll resist and the shit-tests will increase and you’ll be scrambling to figure out how to manage them only making yourself look weaker and weaker in her eyes.

    ****I’ve learned a lot about her prior history over the last year or so, by confronting her, and paying attention to the trickle truth. She’s admitted to an n-count of 10, 3 of them being one-night-stands, and I found out that she broke-up and reunited with her first multiple times.

    This was 35+++ years ago! Stop obsessing and move on. You can do so much better with the little time you have left in this life.

  70. Art imitates Life…

    As I am listening TTS to PalmaSailor’s black and white photography gambit, by coincidence I have a black and white album cover assigned to the mp3 file—which I add to avoid the default tied musical notes and to give me something to look at when I am stuck in traffic. I prefer nudes, not overtly sexual, in interesting poses. In this picture, is a beautiful woman looking straight at the viewer, sitting on the floor, her left leg in an awkward yoga pose, with the top of her foot pressing into and lifting her left breast. She’s beautiful, but intentionally throws off her Symmetry—kind of what is discussed here every day.

  71. Any tips on holding your “mental point of origin” without feeling like an asshole?

    On Thursday night, this coworker calls me and we have a conversation. At the end, she asks me if we can hang out the next day because we haven’t spent time together in a long time. The next day comes and she is aloof and there is no contact. I wanted to leave, so I texted “are we on?…” Her response is a complete 180′ and basically, “I don’t have much time for you…”

    I knew this shit was going to happen since I know this woman is an attention whore. What drives me mad is that my gut was telling me to just leave because she didn’t reach out the whole day. Given her response, I got pissed and bailed on her. Said,”let’s take a raincheck” and left. She calls me about 45 mins later with her tail between her legs in a voicemail, I didn’t answer the phone.

    It doesn’t matter who this woman is or isn’t. What makes me mad is that I didn’t listen to my gut because I was thinking more about how she might feel if I didn’t try to connect with her. In reality, she didn’t give two shits. This is where the fickle female mind is annoying as fuck. Men with integrity will follow through when they tell you something. Woman have no rhyme, reason or accountability.

    How do I kill the hesitation that I felt? The voice was there, telling me to forget her and go. My blue pill conditioning was telling me to be a nice guy and not hurt her feelings. I keep trying to fight the truth that woman are solipsistic by nature. Everything she said the night before was null and void the next day. She wanted connection at that moment on Thursday night, but on Friday she was a different person. I’m getting tired of this dynamic with women.

  72. @Anonymous

    Welcome to the Field Reports.

    You knew what you needed to do – you just didn’t execute. You should have just left and not given her attention and validation (by asking if you were still on to meet).

    Next time execute.

    And the way you get better at this is by practicing – on lots of different women. When you have options with plenty of women, this will all come naturally to you.

    Look up the beginner resources in this Field Report section and execute.

  73. @Palma: fair enough. But HABD usually says it is good practice anyway so try to turn even a bad set around.
    The fact she reached out to you is still an IOI, we are talking a woman which slapped your face and you didn’t flinch.

    I’d say right move there (because 14 is special in a “Provider”, BB way as opposed to say, Halloween which is special in a AF way) is wait until the 15th, then give her some attention and setup a meet for you to proceed to game in person. If she doesn’t bite, you don’t really lose that much.

    In Anonymous case it was probably just an attention / validation fix – congratulations on spotting it wasn’t good, next time do what YOU want to do, for that you really do need to know what YOU want.

  74. @PalmaSailor

    This wasn’t for a date but just to hang out. This women only wants attention, validation and free resources. And yes, she is attractive and I would love to smash it. I think this is why men/women can’t be friends. She uses her beauty to sucker you in. Long time ago she openly told me that she masturbates and gets Brazilian waxes. Now why would you tell a male coworker this information? The reality is that she never wanted to smash but suckered me in with the hopes of seeing that wax job.

    This is a very well crafted game. She is using her sexual agency to get what she needs, free attention. I’ve started to notice that these types of women have no female friends either. Huge RED flag. Women are all competing for the same attention and secretly hate each other. If we were really friends, then she would reciprocate when I need something. Here is a litmus test when a woman claims to be your friend, tell her something that requires her to listen to you and put in emotional investment. The majority of them will disappear all of the sudden.

    I started ghosting her since the beginning of the year because I’m tired of getting used. And it feels like getting “used” because she does not reciprocate like a guy friend does. We don’t do things together nor can she relate to my world. We often have arguments because she only sees the world through her own experience. I know many females at work that I don’t give a second thought to. But this one, I want to smash and she knows it and plays me like a fool.

    What is funny, my Blue Pill mind is worried about losing the sex that I’m actually not getting anyway, lol. It is about the “potential” of sex. This is female game at it’s finest, filling your orbit with guy “friends” to provide attention whenever you need it. This is also why partners get nervous when you start talking about your opposite sex “friend”. Your partner knows that this bullshit and there must be some attraction going on.

    I’m getting too old for this shit. More practice is the right answer. Stay on frame and spit out the bait.

  75. I’m starting to believe the had there’s a invisible cut off date wrt to males having female friends.

    It is 100% possible and I think highly beneficial. Women aren’t men and never will be. They are different, and it you’re actually trying to figure them out you will need to interact with them in different levels, not just to get laid.

    Then you can bang practically any one of them you’d like while saving yourself time of frustration and angst.

    They’ll only ” reciprocate ” if given reasons to do so.

  76. @Anonymous

    Reality check. What kind of blue pill hopes are you still harbouring about this woman? It’s obvious there are some left. Snap out of it, your dreams and wishes won’t be fulfilled. Frustration is all you’ll be getting.

    On the red pill side you have the understandings already but not enough strength to act based on them. The anger is good though, if you keep banging your head against the wall eventually it will grow big enough to act as the driving force.

  77. Guys need to learn to not pick up or answer lame texts from woman on feb 13 or 14th. If you have lined something up before then then you’re probably in for a bad time

  78. A sight for sore eyes…

    The family was vacationing in the Keys and I saw a jaw-droppingly-beautiful hispanic woman walking down the street clad in a one piece bathing suit. I couldn’t help staring briefly, lol.

    Daughter Gamer said that the woman was trolling for looks. I offered that maybe her boyfriend broke up with her and she needed validation. DG agreed.

  79. Guys,

    Quick question, you may remember me posting about running into an old college acquaintance at a conference about 3-4 months ago and how she had the hots for me basically and we flirted but I didn’t want to mess around as she could be useful professionally.

    So I’m going to be at another conference soon, and I texted her saying “long time no hear – hope you’re well. Are you going to be at [conference]?”

    And she replied immediately saying “Good to hear from you…I will be there. Would be lovely to meet up. What are you speaking about at the conference?”

    I replied telling her what I’m speaking about and added “I would appreciate it if you could take a look at my talk outline and give your comments” – on the basis that people like being asked their opinion and it may even be useful.

    No reply at all for two days now.

    My text game is generally on point but this one really puzzled me. The only explanation I can think of is a bit hard to believe – that she was hoping I texted purely socially (aka to arrange a “drink”/hookup at the conference) and got offended and stopped replying. That is a bit hard to believe, but even if it is the correct explanation – why would she stop replying? Surely she’d just reply and give comments on my talk and wait till the conference to hook up?

  80. Culum

    FFS… this shit again???

    I replied telling her what I’m speaking about and added “I would appreciate it if you could take a look at my talk outline and give your comments” – on the basis that people like being asked their opinion and it may even be useful.

    No reply at all for two days now.

    My text game is generally on point but this one really puzzled me. The only explanation I can think of is a bit hard to believe – that she was hoping I texted purely socially (aka to arrange a “drink”/hookup at the conference) and got offended and stopped replying. That is a bit hard to believe, but even if it is the correct explanation – why would she stop replying? Surely she’d just reply and give comments on my talk and wait till the conference to hook up?

    Is this the same guy who is ready to lead bootcamps? Come on Hoss!

    You spiked the shit out of her, then threw cold water all over it. Clear as day. Alpha one second, Beta who “doesn’t get it” the next. Why?

    That is a bit hard to believe

    You STILL don’t believe you are the stud, in real time…

    Break it down… INSTANT response… Confirms logistics ASAP.. and even THROWS OUT AN INVITE (cat-o-nese) with a plausibly deniable modifier – -HOPING you “get it” and manage the next step, i.e. lead…

    And what do you do… You want her to do your homework??? How the fuck is she going to feel about that??? That is a massive rejection to her invite.

    You still think it’s weird she stopped replying? lol

    The real question.. WHY would you even bring up looking at the outline? You could have just slipped that in in person with the benefit of NOT losing your Alpha cred and bang potential.

    Ask yourself why you sabotaged this… But you know. You DON’T BELIEVE in you…

    a bit hard to believe – that she was hoping I texted purely socially (aka to arrange a “drink”/hookup at the conference) and got offended and stopped replying.

    Winner!

  81. that people like being asked their opinion and it may even be useful.

    Had to lol at this again… Girls that want to be fucked, want to be fucked. This ^^ is what an uncalibrated sperg thinks. You know that.

    The real hard question – WHY? Why would you do this? why not just say “where you staying?” – cat-o-nese for “you are going to get fucked” and then just say yes let’s have a drink and depending upon how close it is, work logistics or wait to closer… 9 or 9:30 is good. Juuuuust late enough to not be too early to have a drink and bang, juuuust early enough to not look like a booty call…

    we need answer CS… WHY!!!

  82. Revised

    CS Playah: “So I’m going to be at another conference soon, and I texted her saying “long time no hear – hope you’re well. Are you going to be at [conference]?”

    Girl Who Has Been Dreaming of CS Cock for YEARS: “Good to hear from you…I will be there. Would be lovely to meet up. What are you speaking about at the conference?”

    CS Playah: [ignores beta bait] “Where are you staying?”

    Girl Who Has Been Dreaming of CS Cock for YEARS: “hahaha… Marriott Westside”

    CS Playa: [looks up dark cocktail bar nearby] “I could do a drink at McNally’s, I hear good things. Pencil in 9:30 Wednesday.”

    Girl Who Has Been Dreaming of CS Cock for YEARS: “That would be lovely.”

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