Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

15,461 comments on “Field Reports

  1. AnonDUDE

    I wrote a reply much earlier today before some of the other replies and without thinking very clearly. So just consider it a riff on some topics. Also know that I’m fairly biased towards LTR’s and marriage. Because I like it that way, and I like mine. There is nothing wrong with non-monogamy or serial monogamy or LTR’s. It all depends. So don’t be deciding ahead of time.

    Your head is spinning. How you are speaking is as if you have a lot of noise in your head. So you are speaking in a lot of binaries and have a lot of cognitive dissonance trying to move your head from one pole to the other. Life doesn’t work that way. It’s not all or none.

    e.g.:

    “….This is the weird part, I see her as a pretty solid ‘asset’, but at the same time I don’t think I would care if we stopped hanging out…”
    “…However I get the feeling if things continue, this girl will want more than to “hang out”. But i’m all for the waiting to move in together to be 2+ years into the future, lol….”

    There is nothing Lol about that, our friend.

    It is normally pretty stressful studying all the time and starting a new job soon.

    You are in a stage of grief. But perhaps good greif.

    You’ve got time to get the noise and the grief out of your head. So don’t panic. Think of how your concerns will be the same in 4 months, 4 years and 8 years from now. Are you going to be in the same mindset?

    “I don’t need a relationship by any stretch of the imagination. My question is: what is this stuff all for? Is it to find better quality women? To have lots of great sex? It seems like thats what i’m getting, and what I’ve found.”

    The purpose of the red pill knowledge is not to poison you away from being with the feminine and enjoying women. It really isn’t. But that’s how most men voice things these days because it resonates with a lot of disgruntled men.

    It’s not designed to be anodyne or anhedonic.

    You don’t decide on a long term relationship up front. It develops organically.

    What you are really saying is that you don’t want to make a committment. So then don’t. You get to make that decision at every step in time in real time. So do that.

    It’s not like if you don’t commit to this girl, then things won’t develop and their won’t be opportunities with other girls if it doesn’t work out with them. That limits your dynamism and leads to a 50/50 commitment on the part of the relationship partners if you want a relationship down the road, with her or someone else in the future.

    (Oh, and I’ve heard Rollo say many times, in live talks, spinning plates doesn’t mean you have to be having sex with them–and that’s not the conventional wisdom or red-pill spinning plates. If that’s any consolation and the girl you are hooking up is good for you sexually. It’s your choice. You get to choose. The reason for plates is to have options.)

    You are trying to find meaning and right now it would be best to invest in what you are doing, your upcoming job, studying like a maniac and going to the gym. But it doesn’t make much sense for you to not evolve over 4 months, 4 years, 8 years. Where do you want to be then? Nihilistic, assuming there is no meaning to your life and it doesn’t matter what the fuck you do?. Existential view, which holds that there is no reason to conclude that there is any meaning to life? Your life really does have meaning as evidenced that part of the reason you are here is you are trying to figure out what the meaning is…

    So keep studying, learning and processing things to move forward.

    You should listen to others advice, but no one can make your decisions for you. And your mindset will change over time.

    Sounds like you got really burned by your 6 year LTR and you want to guard your heart and not get burned again. That leaves a lot of fun and enthusiasm out of the equation with girls you interact with going forward.

    Check this link out about three levels of putting your self out there to “penetrate the world”. It’s more dynamic of a life.

    http://www.masculinity-movies.com/articles/the-three-stages-of-david-deida

    And if you ever do want to commit or have a relationship, Shawn T. Smith has a good book out on how to make rational decisions on your behalf: The Tactical Guide to Women: How Men Can Manage Risk in Dating and Marriage

  2. @IAS my man – thanks for the wishes – happy new year to everyone! It’s a good community over here at TRM FRs – we’re getting some new joiners too! Now if only @j and @Palma would come back…

    I’m going to be a lot more active in the FR section in the second half of this year when I’m done with my training and back at home.

  3. @AnonDUDE

    Replying to your second message on the other thread.

    Okay, so things are better than I expected with the additional details.

    You’re absolutely right that we look at what women do, not what they say.

    The facts that she paid the first bill and she kissed you first (plus the “epic sex” since then) is a good indication that she does like you. So that’s good.

    As far as seeing other women goes, the real issue is that you should not stop seeing other women to keep this girl happy or because you think it will get you points with her.

    If you are genuinely happy with this girl (for now), and you are busy with career etc and don’t have much time for dating, then by all means stop seeing other girls. Just do it for the right reason – NOT because you think she will like it if you do (she won’t – she would much rather feel like she “won you over” by asking you to stop seeing other girls and she agreed – and if you two keep progressing I guarantee that conversation will happen from her side in a few weeks or so). Also you shouldn’t do it because you think she will reciprocate (she won’t – not until she brings it up with you).

    But for the right reason? Sure.

    If you choose to do that (not date anyone else), then a few things to keep in mind:

    -DO NOT tell her proactively. You’re doing it for your reasons, not to impress her. Wait till she asks you to be exclusive and then make a show of agreeing because you like her

    -Remember the dynamic will shift once exclusivity is there. She bcomes your only source of sex, female companionship etc and there will be a tendency for her to take you for granted. Don’t let that happen.

    -Most importantly don’t let yourself slip. You have to stay the same attractive guy she first liked. You don’t have to sleep with other women or date them, but it will be enormously beneficial to you if she sees that you are not slipping back and that other women like you and flirt with you etc.

    -It is YOUR responsibility to decide where the relationship is going. If you don’t want a serious relationship (for example), then you have to keep the relationship “sex only” – no “relationship” things like meeting each other’s friends and cuddling on the couch watching movies. No seeing her more than once a week etc. On the other hand, if you do more “romantic” activities and see each other more often you will naturally drift into a relationship. But don’t let it “just happen” and end up as her boyfriend by default – decide what you want and go for it.

  4. @Everyone: question regarding my wife (we live apart and legally our finances are separated already). Since I last discussed this issue (if you care, about 3 months ago – link)
    https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-133/#comment-281958

    I told my wife those months ago it wasn’t working for me and we should split. She became obsessed with me having sex with others and when staying here at my place the last few times (we didn’t bang because I avoided it) she was in detective mode finding hairs etc., which frankly I didn’t even particularly bother hiding. It was almost funny, and a bit sad as well.

    I don’t want to lie and I have maintained a strict “No comments” stance on any questions even vaguely about it, saying that the real issue is about us and not external (I believe this). I have further told her very explicitly I want the divorce, and already revealed my intention to divorce to the closest family members on my side of the family.

    First priority is me, but after that I wouldn’t mind easing her suffering a bit (as long as it doesn’t cause me more).

    A (mutual) male friend with more relationship experience than me, which is certainly much closer to a “natural” than I am, suggested that from his many experiences on both sides of failed relationships, that more transparency was the best option.

    It is hard for me to know what is correct here, but my own analysis of the situation is that it is a lose-lose situation (and explained this to her with other wording):
    a) if I wasn’t banging and I confirm this to her, I’m giving her further hope things will work out, when I want to split and for her to move on.
    b) if I am banging and I confirm this to her I make her suffer

    Here in the FR section we know the situation is b), further noting that she has been pressing me to answer, I would fail a shit test, and she can use the info as an excuse to further blame me for everything, etc.

    Insight is welcomed.
    What do you think? Stick with “No comments” or put her out of her misery and confirm I’m banging someone else (or someones elses) to give her more closure? Something else that didn’t occur to me?

  5. IAS

    “Something else that didn’t occur to me?”

    Hmmmm. How about just moving forward NOW with the divorce and avoiding all the other questions which really don’t matter. You want it. Why drag it out further. File, serve do whatever procedure you need to do to make it legal.

    And move on.

  6. IAS

    I’d like to be able to give you every answer that you’d need, but unfortunately, I can’t offer much. I always try to give guys advice that I would follow or on things I have already done.

    Imo, the ” sex while married ” thing complicates matters when you’re not intentionally trying to hurt your partner.

    My best guess at this is in line with what Sentient says – just do it and get it over.

    From my divorce experience, it’s impossible that no one will get hurt ( unless two people that should have never met managed to get married and act like assholes throughout that marriage ). Sometimes efforts to minimize pain only drraaagggsss things out until it becomes much more uncomfortable and painful and maddening. Sometimes the most merciful thing one can do is to make a clean, quick ( as possible ) break. Like pulling off a Band-Aid.

    The positive thing, if you wanna look for silver linings, is that there aren’t children involved to further exasperate matters. Your situation only really involves 2 people.

    As far as the ” talking ” thing, if I were you I wouldn’t cop to sex with anyone else, as that isn’t the issue and truthful answers in this regard will only hurt and inflame the situation. She’ll only be angered and see ” you cheated!!!” as the driving factor in your wanting to divorce. There is no good there.

    Movies and articles and shit like that , say that men and women can be friends after divorce. Nah not even close to being ” a thing “. You don’t have to be mortal enemies, but you’re not going to be Superfriends either. Y’all are going your separate ways. At this point there’s no need for anger being prolonged because it will not change the situation. She will be upset or angry, definitely hurt , but that’s a part of the package.

    And again, if it’s any consolation at all, this would be a mindfuck if you had kids, so remind yourself of this going forward.

    My wife and I have an ongoing joke now that my daughter is turning 20. We ask each other occasionally ” when she’s done college, are you going to file for divorce or should I do it?…” . If you haven’t grown closer over the course of a marriage , then that’s not a marriage. The marriage license and wedding was a misfire that can be corrected. Sentimentality will never make everything okay, but her emotions will be at overdrive capacity until they burn out. Expect this.

    The genie will never, ever go back in the bottle.

    I wish you well, because in no way will this be easy. You’re not good at being a heartless prick, and I can appreciate that, but in many ways it makes things a lot harder.

  7. @IAS

    Everything Sentient and Blax said.

    Short summary version:

    If you want to get divorced, then get divorced. Why wait?
    No benefit to telling her about the other women for the reasons Blax said – will change the focus. You’re gonna get divorced right? Then just get divorced and the “telling her about other women” problem goes away.

    That said – I know it’s easier by far for me to say than for you to do – but this is a pretty simple decision. Not EASY. It’s very hard. But it’s SIMPLE.

  8. @IAS

    All the best in 2020, rude boy. Don’t forget it’s up to you how you’ll welcome 2021. Less than 52 weeks left and I want to see you killing it.

    What do you think? Stick with “No comments” or put her out of her misery and confirm I’m banging someone else (or someones elses) to give her more closure? Something else that didn’t occur to me?

    I’ve never gone through a divorce, so all here is just me extrapolating from other reference experiences.

    First of all, confirming you’re banging someone else does NOT equal putting her out of her misery. It’s her hamster spinning and looking for rationalizations. They don’t even need to make sense, the hamster just needs to keep spinning. Yes, she may want to conclude with “it’s not me, it’s him, that f* asshole” (which is your second issue), but she definitely does NOT need a logical and factual closure. So no, I wouldn’t try to have any explanatory conversations beyond a very simple “we’ve grown apart and that’ll be the best for both of us”.

    The second issue, she’s a woman with her female hindbrain who acts on emotions in the moment. The facts and your perspective don’t matter. The narrative of what’s going on (what and why is happening) will change depending on her feelings. These will be influenced by so many factors (especially her female friends) and you can’t control that. She’ll look for closure which will give her the most in terms of emotional absolution and self-perception. It needs to be a net positive emotional balance for her or she won’t be able to cope with it. That means it’s most likely to be at your expense – if you’re the bad guy and she’s the victim, you misled her and made her life miserable, she’s a good person and still has a shot at life… without doing the work. She’ll rewrite the history of your marriage. It’s evo-bio-psych. Don’t go the bitter “she’s a bitch” route. Take it for what it is and carry on. Set the goal – the ‘future you’ – and keep working towards it despite the noise.

    You’re separating your lives and it starts yesterday. How will the ‘future you’ treat a stranger, an acquaintance, an ex-wife, a plate, a work colleague, a male friend, an LTR? Do you expect to be friends with your ex? To be there for her when she needs help? Will you ignore her completely? What’s the best for YOU? It’s about your integrity, your boundaries and your future life after the divorce. You can be polite, calm and decent (even when she’s not and acting out), but ruthless and unmoved in executing your plan and protecting your values/boundaries at the same time. It’s you who needs closure first and foremost.

    BTW I expect her to try to emotionally pull you back in, even when she decides to move on. A helpful orbiter is not a bad thing, right? She’ll likely exercise the boundary of what she can expect from you. She has all the tools she needs to slowly baby step it from “can you help me take this last bag to the car” to “can you fly over to help my parents?” and so on (luckily there are no kids involved in your case – they can become just the easiest leverage to make you do whatever she wants – ask Palma). If she crosses the line (which you need to define yourself), let her know that you’re not going to be present in her life anymore – she needs to move on too and find help elsewhere. Be polite and calm, but learn to say no to things that are reserved for a wife – and she won’t be yours anymore.

    Flip that switch.

    I have further told her very explicitly I want the divorce, and already revealed my intention to divorce to the closest family members on my side of the family.

    How serious are you about it though? What other steps have you taken besides announcing it?

    Do you already know what the process looks like (and in which country you’ll do it)? What’s there in terms of the paperwork? Have you asked for a legal advice? Do you know how much the whole process may cost you? Have you secured necessary resources and support? Do you have a plan in place? When will you execute it? Have you identified potential risks (no need to act on them, just be aware of what may come your way)? Have you talked to any other divorced guys about their experience and their lessons learnt?

    Women talk, men do.

  9. @anonDUDE

    (Taking it from the recent OP to FRs, I don’t read all other comments)

    I’ve been in a ~20-year LTR and I’m all up for relationships. And I know you need a bit of a distance first. That comes with experience. So keep trying and observing both her (and other girls) and yourself. The more girls you interact with, the easier it becomes for you. You want a long term relationship? Go for it. Do what you want, just get really good at reading women, predicting their behaviors and managing relationships. The best way to learn? By doing.

    At the moment you’re in a honeymoon phase, so you see more positives than negatives. You can’t tell yet if that’s her expressive personality or if she’s really into you, right? You don’t know her quirks, her reactions to situations outside this initial dating, her relationships with family, friends and strangers. You don’t know what baggage she’s bringing in to this relationship. Enjoy it but vet and don’t commit faster than she’s doing it. A woman does not need a guy to drop plates. You decided it’s what you want because you expect if of her. Why do you assume it’s symmetrical? Cats are not dogs.

    She also said that she’d been on 40 dates this year but she wasn’t interested in any of them.

    Look how it’s worded. She didn’t say she hadn’t banged any of them. How did she meet them? Online. Why do girls go the online dating path?

    Let me tell you how my wife’s co-worker (single mom in her early 30s) described her online experience: “I had used Tinder in the past and its terrible so I deleted it. Then after a while I thought I’d try this other app, more intellectual. I started chatting with this first guy. I remembered I had swiped left on him on Tinder, but here he wrote something interesting and it took off. So I invited him over for dinner at mine the same day (I had my child with my ex). It was nice, I’ll have another date with him next week. He’s very smart and maybe it’ll go somewhere.” Do I need to translate what it all means in womanese? How many guys had she “met” before deleting Tinder? Why did she install the new app despite the bad experience? Why was there a dinner at her place the same night? Why was it convenient the child wasn’t there that night? Etc.

    Pretty similar to me actually.

    No, not similar at all actually. Casual sex does different things to men and women in the context of LTRs etc.
    Why do you think the worst thing to call a woman is a ‘whore’ whereas for a man it’s an ‘incel’?

    Shes also recently(ish) out of a 5 year relationship.

    Ahh the sweet validation from all these guys wanting to offer her a dick… when she jumped on the online bandwagon.
    What does it do to a female psyche? How easy will it be for her to let go of that?

    On the first date she paid for food and kissed me first.

    See, even you were surprised she initiated that.
    Was it a “fuck me now” kiss? Or a sweet “beta bait” kiss?
    Why weren’t you leading it?

    No time for more, so this needs to do for now.

  10. @Everyone: thanks for the insight. It confirms what I was thinking.
    From within it is harder to see it as clearly, and I often don’t really want to see some of this.

  11. Just ended an almost year long relationship.

    Me: single father of a pre-teen boy, mid-40’s

    Her: nearly 39yo woman, gainfully employed, smart, good sex, like similar things, can go simple and complex.

    She’s made clear she wants commitment, and not necessarily kids, but a life with me. Just in case tho, she froze some eggs this year.

    Thing is, I’ve been spinning plates this entire time, mostly 20-somethings. It’s been fun and great.

    And I’m not sure if I’m done with kids, and if I did want more, it would be 5-8 years down the road (after my son is 15) and honestly with a younger woman.

    My concern was to not waste her limited time, only to possibly want children later, and not to prematurely end my time of having fun spinning plates.

    Nonetheless, it is not a good feeling, ending a meaningful relationship that was filled with special times and great moments, and that could have had more.

    Any advice as to how to frame this and move forward healthfully is appreciated.

    Thanks in advance. Best to everyone.

  12. Just Beers

    Why would you end it? I assume you told her you weren’t going to commit and had other girls? If so, enjoy the time with her and from time to time encourage her to find a guy who would settle down.

    It’s on her.

  13. @Just Beers: probably the best you could have done, for her.

    @Sentient: rationally, it is on her. But if he doesn’t terminate it himself she will still blame him, even if subconsciously. Very likely Just Beers actually does care for this girl and is partially sacrificing his own well being right now, to give her a better chance at some happiness down the line (and eventually saving himself some bigger grief a few years later).

    You don’t even have to ask me how I know :/

  14. @Just Beers: probably the best you could have done, for her.

    @Sentient: rationally, it is on her. But if he doesn’t terminate it himself she will still blame him, even if subconsciously. Very likely Just Beers actually does care for this girl and is partially sacrificing his own well being right now, to give her a better chance at some happiness down the line (and eventually saving himself some bigger grief a few years later).

    You don’t even have to ask me how I know :/
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    @IAS and @Sentient. Thanks to both of you… her words, through tears, were “I don’t want a community dick.” It was said sadly, tho, not angrily. Something like deep resignation.

    I’ve chosen to not tell her that I’ve been with others, and simply said I cannot commit in the way she wants/needs (implying eventual women, but also noting her desire to really move forward as a couple, together)

    What’s interesting is that she is the sweetest, most attentive woman I’ve met since…. my ex at 33 with baby rabies. I took the bait then (blue pill that I was, and am still in ways) yet now I’m profoundly mistrustful of any women of a certain age being sweet to me.

    Thanks again.

    @IAS, may I ask how old are you, and your (ex) wife?

    I’ve read some of your story, and feel for you too. Must be rough.

  15. Old business from last month.

    Phill Connors
    @AR ”RSD is just a variation on MM, and not that big a variation. ”

    @WIA “RSD Game is VERY different from Mystery Method. A huge variation”

    I agree with WIA.

    That was sloppy writing on my part. At the implementation level there is indeed a big difference.

    But zoom out. Look at MM / RSD from an imaginary 20,000 feet or 7,000 meters. There’s a sorta-kinda flow chart Sentient has put up a few times, I didn’t properly file the URL – cycling from Attraction to Comfort, Qualification to Disqualification then back…etc.

    At the abstract level, RSD is a variation on a theme that MM lays out. Push – pull, etc.

    It’s like the difference between strategy and tactics. Big picture vs. tight focus.

    I’m returning to this because some version of these mindsets will work on any given women, and married men who lurk here should be assured that these methods work well in LTR’s / married situations. They are all girls, after all, and tuning up a woman’s head in the longer term game may require a different mix than PUA operations in the short term, but it’s just different proportions of the same ingredients.

    tl;dr
    Attraction and Seduction are based on human features that are mostly wired into the brain, and so all methods will be variants of each other in the abstract. MM, RSD and other methods are worth learning for all men, and married men who have become Betaized need that knowledge very, very much. Lurkers, let this be the year you put all that butthurt negativity behind and get on with living.

  16. @Just Beers:
    Both 39.

    Don’t take it personally, the baby rabies, the desire for commitment.
    They are just… Looking out for themselves. And so should we.

    As Sentient is alluding… We have to allow ourselves to be selfish.

  17. They are just… Looking out for themselves. And so should we.

    As Sentient is alluding… We have to allow ourselves to be selfish.

    It’s not always about playing not to lose. By being selfish.

    LTR’s are best served with an investment in the other. Trust, admiration and respect go a long way in investing more rather than less when it is warranted and a good match and a good investment. The other, your partner, will not always let you down.

    It’s not all about guarding your heart and your own self ego-investments.

    You can be selfish, and you can also be self-less when warranted. And it’s not a blue pill thing.

    Rollo can say: “don’t take me and my marriage and child as an example”. That’s disingenuous. Because his 20+ year marriage and my 30 year marriage with children are certainly decent examples of going outside of ourselves, but also using enlightened self interest. (And also Sentient and Blax et. al. with children, not that children are involved in the parents inter-personal, sexual relationship.)

    It’s not all about selfishness. It’s but one small component. It’s a component of “process” and cheat codes and the procedural manual. It’s a start at the Game.

    It’s not the be all and end all. Cover your bases first and then be a masculine self-made self-actualized man, proceed forward and have high meaning aspirations, purpose and missions.

    Things will get in a flow state if you are “all that” in your performance and your aspirations. Things will flow down from you being skilled and purposeful. With more than just cheat codes.

    This little riff is not in reference to IAS, it is more in general. And more about LTR’s. It doesn’t have to be adversarial. Even if it always is. There is a well said thing that in LTR’s, it’s not a problem in having arguments or conflict, it is more about resolving the conflicts and coming to a resolution to those conflicts that matters. Which may take not being entirely selfish, being self-less at times and investing into the partner’s good too.

    “If we know exactly where we’re going, exactly how to get there, and exactly what we’ll see along the way, we won’t learn anything. ”
    ― Scott Peck

    “Abandon the urge to simplify everything, to look for formulas and easy answers, and to begin to think multidimensionally, to glory in the mystery and paradoxes of life, not to be dismayed by the multitude of causes and consequences that are inherent in each experience — to appreciate the fact that life is complex.”
    ― M. Scott Peck

    “Life is difficult. This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths. It is a great truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it. Once we truly know that life is difficult-once we truly understand and accept it-then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.”
    ― M. Scott Peck,

    It’s not all easy, but you can make things easier by not stepping on your dick and analyzing the imprint all the time.

    The bottom line is that you know how to make yourself attractive, not unattractive and do better.

    It’s about fear busting and being your best self. And not just in the power of positive thinking. Getting rid of your ego defenses.

    And there is nothing wrong with investing in your girl for her sake. When you have the resources to do so. Get your resources in order and you will profit from the investment. Get your head sorted out…

  18. Oh, and some of you new guys including AnonDUDE and others, check out this forum thread from 2004 by Pook about mindset and dealing with girls:

    https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/fifteen-lessons.59150/

    You cannot be yourself without truthfully seeing yourself.
    You cannot sacrifice character for joyfulness without ultimately destroying happiness.
    You cannot control the situation, but you can control yourself, your emotions, and your life.
    You cannot have women love you until you love yourself.
    You cannot grasp the female nature until you grasp your male nature.
    You cannot win her until you focus on her winning you.
    You cannot fully know the principles of this website until you leave it.
    You cannot obtain love by giving yours away for free.
    You cannot fulfill your desire by letting it Trump your integrity.
    You cannot be yourself by denying your dreams and what it takes to achieve them.

  19. The following is not cognitive dissonance. In an LTR is is: accord, agreement, concord, concordance, harmony, peace.

    Call it a collaborative alliance.

    From to that link to the Pook thread:

    “Getting a girl is not the success.”

    “Pook! Whatever do you mean by this?”

    “Most guys still think like women. They think that by sleeping with lots of women, by having a girlfriend, or by having a wife means they are successful with women.”

    “You mean that ‘beggars can’t be choosers.’ You mean for guys to PICK the girl rather than the other way around.”

    “You’re closer and that is true. But women date for all sorts of reasons. They marry for all sorts of reasons. They sleep with you for all sorts of reasons. To the addition of the above, you want to find a woman that is interested in YOU.”

    “I don’t understand.”

    So Pook summoned forth a guy and his girlfriend. The guy, smug, says, “I got a girlfriend now! Dobedobedo!” Pook summoned a single guy into the room. The coupled guy smugly said, “Oh, poor thing! You will get a girl like me one day!”

    The single guy bowed his head and looked sad. Alas. He had no chick. Boo hoo.

    “Now,” said the Pook, “let us fast forward several years.”

    Years later, the guy and his girlfriend got married. Why did they marry? “It seemed like the next thing to do!” Alas, the divorce swiftly came in a few years.

    “The error is guys defining their success on having a woman or women. They should rather be concerned with having a woman that DOES actually like them.”

    “Why do you say this, Pook? It sounds like a bit more work.”

    “Yes, but if you do this then you won’t be like the following:”

    “She said she loved me and we got married! Why does she want a divorce now?”

    “All my friends thought ‘she was a keeper’. So why is she cheating on me with her ex?”

    “She won’t return my repeated calls? What is going on?”

    “I do her date ideas and she thought I was ‘boring’. What does that mean?”

    Pook shook his head. “When you aim at something long term, you need to make sure the woman like you. Just because she dates you, sleeps with you, and yes, even MARRIES you does not mean she likes you.”

    “So what should I do?”

    “You define what the dates are at first. She will work with you if she likes you. You can ‘soften’ up later like in a couple of months. If she starts breaking dates, giving you the run around, or seems INFLEXIBLE then that should be warning signs that she doesn’t like you.”

    “I see… But what if you’re so awful at DJing that NO woman likes you?”

    “Then you’ll have more free time with your buddies. Success cannot be getting a girl because that means failure is being alone. No. Failure is being in an unhappy marriage or a relationship where she has no true interest in you.”

    “So the focus must be on you, including her interest?”

    “Right. Drop the ‘getting a girl is success’ mantra and you will never be DUMPED.”

    That doesn’t mean, focus on yourself only. You can also focus on her. You don’t have to be 50/50 guarding your heart as Nice Guy (T.M) Robert Glover… You can have her be into you. 100% investment of yourself in you. And investing more than 50% into her. Because you have a solid foundation. And you can afford the investment in her. Because you have charisma (Heh, compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others). You have extra to give. It’s not a crime to give. Or to love. When you have enough to give.

  20. Anyone experienced this type of situation:

    Strong “independent” feminist woman getting jealous at the fact that you are emotionally strong, resourceful and a self-reliant man?

    I find myself in the position of being the stable force in this woman’s world, yet she seems to criticize me for not being emotionally frail and needy as she is. She says for example, “you never ask for help…” I ask for help when I need it. I take care of business on my own and attend to my needs without help from others.

    Here is the kicker, I have opened up a few times and she wanted nothing to do with it. Zero f*cks to give that I needed someone to talk to about something. Nothing more unattractive than a man needing help from a woman was my read. As Rich says, “women don’t care about your struggle, they hang out at the finish line for the winners…”

    I get the feeling that this woman is mad at the fact that I really don’t need her.

  21. NewGuy,

    Why are you involved with this independent feminist woman in the first place? Is she an immediate family member or something…?

  22. NewGuy
    She says for example, “you never ask for help…”

    Shit test. Why do you care? Who is she to you?

  23. I’m 57 recently divorced for 3 years with the wounds mostly healed. I’m square jawed, 6’ tall 175 lbs swimmers body and not far from a 6 pack. My ego tells me I have a high SMV for my age. I found RM 3 weeks ago and have read all 3 books and probably watched 40+ hours of Rollo and associates. Rollo did a show with Andrew Tate that turned the corner on my nihilism and is helping greatly with throwing off my deep seated blue pill conditioning.

    I’ve got a few years left and want to make the most of them. Seems obvious that I also need to dump my blue pill game. I’m not afraid of learning by making mistakes. So my Question is this; where is the best place to learn red pill game. I’m inclined to read or watch seminars on YT. What is the required reading list? I’m ready to “do the work”.

    I have a mid 30’s daughter from my first wife who sperm jacked me at 20. That lasted 3 years before I bailed and got gutted by the courts for another 7, was mostly denied access to my daughter until she ran away at 15 and ended up with me. Going into my mid 30’s I was deathly afraid of another unplanned pregnancy to the point it hindered my dating. A crazy (BPD?) gf made me realize I didn’t want more kids so I got a vasectomy. Should I keep this a secret?

    My mid – late 30’s were my notch count years. I now realize I was trolling post epiphany phase women, not that my beta game had magically evolved to mastery. I met my second wife when I was just north of 40, she was mid 30’s and looking for her beta (as I now recognize). After a few years of dating she laid down an ultimatum. I thought it over and decided she was too good to lose so I put a ring on it. I went full beta during the marriage dropping all of my goals and hobbies to support hers. She pressured me to retire from my 30 year company job, so I did while qualifying for a miniscule pension. I literally built a house for this woman with my own hands, and supported her ambition to be a “craftsman/craftswaman” with my time, money and intellect. Even with my financial and physical subsidizing the effort failed. She cut me loose, thankfully only taking an arm and not a leg too. Within a year she was remarried (monkey branching?). I carried some serious resentment and still have vestiges of it. I put everything I had into that marriage and was fighting the controls all the way down as we augured in. All through the relationship I though the monumental amount of work and effort I was putting in was building equity, what it really was, was relationship sunk costs.

    So here I am retired (more accurately unemployed) and in reasonably good financial shape if I live a small life. Thankfully debt free. I think I have enough to ride it out to the end. I do get some occasional work from my old company (I was very good, but largely non transferrable skills). This work is sporadic at best with low prospect for more (yeah globalism!). I have lots of qualifying skills. I can fix almost anything, enjoy cooking, know how to live alone.

    So here I am, well past my prime. After fire hosing myself with RM hypergamy I feel like the sole survivor of a plane crash on a remote island.

    I have a gf who’s post menopausal with an SMV at least 3 points below mine. She’s in shape and mostly admires me with the occasional shit test. I managed to navigate these tests before reading RM and in review see I did mostly okay. My blue pill conditioning is pulling me to “settle” but my new red pill mind set has me thinking I should spin plates and learn game. I don’t have oneitis but can feel it nibbling at the edges of my consciousness. If I am to spin plates, what age range of women should I go for. Post epiphany mid 30’s seems right, but that could also be a single mother infested minefield.

  24. Mike Land

    “where is the best place to learn red pill game”

    Capital G “Game” isn’t red or blue pill. It is the language of female seduction. It is spoken and physical. You learn it like you learn German. By action and immersion.

    The best place to learn Red Pill is TRM.

    Game newbie resources per Yareally

    http://yareallyarchive.com/2016/8/#comment-rationalmale-168181

    “These days my Newbie Guide would be this:

    – Mystery Method. I prefer the seminar where he teaches it over the PDF eBook of it because I like Mystery’s passion for what he’s teaching, all the vids were on YouTube at some point but now there’s just scraps, here’s one of them to get you started:

    https://youtu.be/TcO5ULfyKDM

    I believe that’s from the Mystery Method 5 DVD set which you should be able to torrent easy.

    Magic Bullets is an eBook that’s a more brief streamlined explanation of MM if you’re tight for time

    – “The Tyler Digest”, google it and read it all

    – watch Liam Mcrae’s Rapid Escalation video on YouTube

    – watch Richard LaRuina Formula For Night Game on YouTube (specifically 27:00 to 50:00)

    – RSDJulien’s SHIFT (internal game/mindsets/beliefs about women, yourself and getting this area handled, torrent it)

    – and RSDJulien’s PIMP (external game aka actual technical shit to execute infield, torrent it)

    – and if you just want overall social skills building rapport/comfort with people in general (which you can apply with girls or just socializing with everyone you meet and becoming that guy that people immediately feel like they’ve known for years) then check out the Juggler Method PDF

    – and at some point give Practical Female Psychology a read, and the free PDF over at Manhood 101 as well, they cover just general over-arching male/female psychology stuff that you’ll want to know for life in general, VS just getting your dick wet ASAP lol

    I’d say that’s the most efficient route to get legit fully well-rounded solid pickup skills infield fast and if you can do all that there’s really not much else you’ll need, that stuff is the full set of keys to the kingdom to tear shit up out there. And read The Rational Male of course lol ’cause Rollo covers a lot of overall philosophical Red Pill stuff. And WHEN you start going out, write up your Field Reports even if you don’t show them to anyone, just writing shit down recapping the night helps your brain focus on how you could do better.”

    And read the Yareally Archive in whatever form you can still find it.

    Get to work Mike. start posting those FRs.

    1. thanks for listing all the resources. I’ll be going through them. I’ve also made notes on suggestions Rollo has made in his YT videos and have a few books part way done. I think I’ll spend a bit of time on the basics of game. I need to break myself of my beta habits.

  25. @Mike Land

    Welcome to TRM.

    Lots of points to make, but just a couple short ones now and more later, or some of the other regulars will weigh in.

    You’ve been firehosed with a lot of new concepts recently. It will take some time for all that to “settle in” as you learn to use the “Red Pill Glasses” to view the world around you. It literally is like seeing the Matrix (well, not literally but you know what I mean).

    However Rollo’s stuff is the theoretical and conceptual overview that makes it all make sense and gives you the broad principles. You need to learn Game for the actual nitty gritty skills and practice.

    The way you do that is simple (not necessarily easy – it’s a lot of effort and time, albeit a lot of fun too, to talk to pretty girls – but simple) – you go out and talk to lots of girls and women (of all ages), come back and post Field Reports of your interactions here (plenty of examples in this FR section) and we all give advice and you go back and rinse and repeat and you improve.

    You should NOT go overboard on watching or reading pickup/game material – the key is to go out and take action and talk to girls, not read more theory. But a few basics are a good idea – in particular the Mystery Method book, which is the 15 year old Game book that underlies pretty much everything being taught in pickup today. A few other videos etc are useful too will try to post them later.

    PS – You can get girls of any age. Don’t worry too much for now about who to target. Think more about talking to lots of women of all ages and generating emotional responses and attraction from them.

  26. Ah, Sentient beat me to finding the YaReally “starter kit” post I was thinking of and posting it.

    Just remember that some of the Youtube videos may be down after the Youtube Purge of 2019 and you may need to poke around on torrent sites etc for some of it. The PDFs and books should be relatively easy to find.

    If you have any questions let us know.

    DO NOT go overboard on more theory than what is in that post. You want action, not to be paralyzed by theory.

    1. beyond thanks for your answer. I did find some old mystery method videos on YT. I also have a copy of Game on the way. I’m a social guy and am not intimidated to talk to anyone. I’m also reasonably good at spotting signs of interest. Thankfully a couple of roadhouses have just sprung up close to my place so I may even have a proving ground. I haven’t fished a woman out of a bar for 30 years so there’s definitely rust.

  27. @Mike Land

    I think we all lived in Mike Land at one time or another:

    “”I have a gf who’s post menopausal with an SMV at least 3 points below mine. She’s in shape and mostly admires me with the occasional shit test. I managed to navigate these tests before reading RM and in review see I did mostly okay.””

    You’re a few years older than me and we’re but I discovered game and The Red Pill exactly 10 years ago. I now only meet girls under 30. I spin plates and have increased my SMV both physically and internally by not really caring anymore.

    “”My blue pill conditioning is pulling me to “settle” but my new red pill mind set has me thinking I should spin plates and learn game.””

    There is an attitude among men of a certain age that this is the best I can do. But now you’re starting to ask quite rightly: “Is this the best I can do?”

    “I don’t have oneitis but can feel it nibbling at the edges of my consciousness. If I am to spin plates, what age range of women should I go for. Post epiphany mid 30’s seems right, but that could also be a single mother infested minefield.”

    You’re projecting your own fears and bad experiences into a reality that doesn’t exist. Set your sights on what you REALLY want. If you want to bang girls in their 20’s you can. Being realistic about your SMV is critical. But in my experience girls over 30 have that horrible attitude that smacks of desperation. You can do so much better by just believing you can.

    Fish where the fish are. Take special interest classes: yoga, salsa, diving, foreign language, photography—that’s where you’ll meet girls in their 20’s. If you have any idea of game you’ll understand how your age and experience will spark attraction.

    I meet a lot of guys in our age range who buy into the whole bullshit of finding age appropriate women. When one of the girls in her 20’s teases me about being “older” and how her friends will raise their eyebrows I usually counter with: “If we were gay and walking together no one would dare question a man in his 50’s with a younger guy in his 20’s….” we’re not allowed to do that anymore. So why worry about the social criticism of being seen with a girl in her 20s? Tidy yourself up so you don’t look like some pervy college professor and get out there. Aim high.

  28. @Bukulu

    Why are you involved with this independent feminist woman in the first place? Is she an immediate family member or something…?

    She is a long time friend and co-worker. Not my girlfriend. We did have crushes on each other years ago. She tries to be a “feminist” but covertly pines for an alpha man that “just gets it.” For as much as she wants to be tough, she needs a man to support her. After being exposed to all this Red Pill material, I see through her facade. Trying to convince women that they are equals to men is a fools game. I don’t see it as a shit test, but as her failing to be something she is not.

    She has a boyfriend, but he is beta and incompetent AF, funny to hear her say, “your wife is lucky…”

  29. Mike Land / wala

    You’re projecting your own fears and bad experiences into a reality that doesn’t exist. Set your sights on what you REALLY want. If you want to bang girls in their 20’s you can.

    +100

    Once you learn some game and marry that to RP, you will see a difference in your thinking Mike, based on observable reality. If you act.

    I meet a lot of guys in our age range who buy into the whole bullshit of finding age appropriate women.

    Shhhhhhh… Let them keep shooting in that barrel…

    When one of the girls in her 20’s teases me about being “older” and how her friends will raise their eyebrows I usually counter with: “If we were gay and walking together no one would dare question a man in his 50’s with a younger guy in his 20’s….”

    I like to go with, “it’s natural, older men, younger women. All through history. You feel that right?”.

  30. Mike Land

    what age range of women should I go for.

    See girls you are attracted to.
    Go talk to them.

    That’s really it. After you learn a bit of the fundamentals and practice some, you wont be able to stop yourself…

    I love the “Here. We. Go.” moment… when some girl is nearby, you open and then… it’s all there in front of you to play for. And they have NO idea what is coming.

  31. “Fish where the fish are. ”

    This.

    This is the biggest obstacle older guys have getting with younger girls. Proximity. You want to fish in stocked ponds. For the average North American, that’s going to be the areas adjacent to the unis… Coffee shops, smoothy places, wine bars, yoga sure if you can stand it.

    You don’t need to go to the frattiest place at 12 AM on Saturday. Those young girls are all around all the time.

  32. @Sentient

    When Mike Land asks “What age range of girls should I go for?”

    To ask the question is to already know the answer. Our response won’t be: Dude, bang MILFs in their 40s.

    For a dude who has some maturity and is in decent shape that’s fishing with dynamite. He doesn’t need us for that. “Hello” is a great opening line.

    Mike Land is at a place where he’s trapped in what he “thinks” society expects of him and what he WANTS to do.

    The resources for developing Game are out there—largely for free. There are Reddit boards devoted to field reports etc though honestly a lot of the advise is very “soy” because the guys who were talking about it 10 years ago when I got into it have moved on and PUA/Game have some how taken on a negative connotation even within the Red Pilled community and I’m not sure why.

    How to approach and seduce women is a skill and a lost art. It takes patience, dedication and practice to learn it, adopt it and then make it something that you don’t have to “try” at.

  33. @Anonymous Reader

    It makes sense coming from a late 20s guy.

    My first girl that was 22 at the time told me as I was her 18th guy :D, and my second girl that was 27 said I was her 8th. ( I know the 3x rule for women, but i tend to believe them as they were in situations where they were legit honest )
    A lot of my friends are in similar situations with less than 5 notches but in relationships with girls who have around 10.

    And to be honest its a bit intimidating knowing the girl has been with more guys than me, not just from alpha widow perspective but from sexual experience one as well, lower chance of giving her unique experience and stuff, just another guy who sticks it in and out, thats it.

  34. @Stefan

    “”And to be honest its a bit intimidating knowing the girl has been with more guys than me, not just from alpha widow perspective but from sexual experience one as well, lower chance of giving her unique experience and stuff, just another guy who sticks it in and out, thats it.””

    This deserves its own post.

    The whole switch in dynamics from what is and isn’t acceptable based on the feminist imperative. You see this constantly in media where the female character is out banging whoever wherever and the male suitor is struggling to be a good guy and win her over.

    One of the biggest struggles I had 10 years ago when I first discovered game was “Can I do this?” Meaning am I ALLOWED to bang as many girls as I want, spin plates, ZFG etc.

    Inner game is a concept that isn’t talked about much recently but is a key component to the Red Pill. Adopting the abundance mindset, working on yourself, not caring what other people think despite the increased pressures on men through social media etc.

    I made the point in another post where the girl in her early 20’s I’m seeing finds our age gap a very big turn on. She sees the boys her age as silly and unable to handle her crap (ie shit tests and typical girl shit)/.

    But the raised eye brows I get even from friends when they learn the 30 year age gap is funny. I said if we were both gay and I was the older man and you were the young 20’s man no one would say a word because–well, society has now been conditioned to accept that. Not so with older guys and girls in their 20’s. But to the original point, overcoming this “intimidating” mindset is critical to moving forward.

  35. Stefan

    “And to be honest its a bit intimidating knowing the girl has been with more guys than me, not just from alpha widow perspective but from sexual experience one as well, lower chance of giving her unique experience and stuff, just another guy who sticks it in and out, thats it.”

    Interesting stuff.

    Serious question though, why would you be just another guy that just sticks it in and out? The population is overrun with these types already. Do you have wants and needs and desires? Are they somehow locked away and unavailable when a sexual opportunity arises?

    One of the reasons sex is not a big deal ( outside of feminism or some other lame excuse ) is that women too are just having lackluster, go through the motions, unsatisfying sex. But…they keep trying because they ” want ” it. Never be intimidated by ” other guys “. Lol, fuck them. Too much thinking involved in a natural act, and there’s a lot of that going around. That ” unique experience ” you mention starts before you ever disrobe her or yourself.

    Sexual confidence come from having sex – full stop. You exercise your wants and desires, and your knowledge. If you pay attention, that knowledge sexually will grow. Simple.

    One thing is certain, ” sex ” ain’t ever about what the entire world thinks about what you’re doing or not doing. All men reading along would do well to get that point – there is zero pressure outside of self imposed pressure. That goes for 90% of life, if you want it to be so.

    Caveat though: Women banging a dozen men won’t make good girlfriend material at all. They have experience, but it doesn’t mean they are great at sex ( because that experience is with sub par motherfuckers so even they don’t ” learn “), and they mentally lose the ability to really connect long term with a decent fellow. Sorry, it’s real.

    So, forget about pressure and line them up, and knock them down – and take notes for yourself. Who knows? you might run across a chick with a low N count and a functioning brain and some good shit might just happen in your frame. But stay out of your head.

    Evidently people in general , and younger people specifically are having less sex than ever, so I imaging that the ones that are actually having sex are having quite a bit. Lol, society is more fucked up than ever ( but, it was always pretty fucked up ). Decouple long enough to get your bearings, and start doing what you want to do …within the law.

  36. Regarding the sex thing…

    I started late at mid twenties and my wife was a virgin and I can tell you that neither of us knew what we were doing at the start.

    I had a little (but not much) anxiety with N=2 that she would just know I was relatively unexperienced but turned out she was also N=2 and she just assumed from my Frame that I had banged many girls and knew what I was doing. To this day she hasn’t orgasmed but she still really enjoys sex. It is slightly frustrating for me that she hasn’t orgasmed but that is really mostly on her.

    N=3 is more experienced and she is apparently fairly experienced. She is quite good (best I’ve had). We have our own inside joke when we do something new to her (and usually also to me, but I don’t need to reveal that). After I made her squirt after a few sessions where I had been trying, I asked her about the experience and it even turns out she had managed to hit her Spot with a previous partner’s dick once, but had never had fingering which apparently was really great for her. It is also great that after that first time I can pretty much always find it and hit it on her. Really eager to try it on someone else now that I know better how it feels like.

    N=4 I think is a bit less experienced than N=3 but also experienced and she also thinks I’m a player.

    I think I’m alpha widowing all of them, even N=3. Not on purpose and I genuinely want to leave all of them better than I found them.

    Bottom line: it is really more about your Frame than anything else. If you believe in yourself they will believe in you too, and it will be better for everyone.

  37. Re Rollo’s YT video : the importance of sex form October

    My second wife (ex) damaged me financially and being 57 my job opportunities are limited so I figured I can contribute with my experiences.

    My first wife sperm jacked me, not just for marriage as an alternative to ever working (as proven by now 37 years of being a burden to society). I will admit she was good at sex and submitted to whatever I wanted. 2 years into the marriage I tried encouraging her to help to pay the bills as we were paycheck to paycheck with no reserve. She outright replied that her contribution to the marriage was pussy. She was a looker, but a slob, terrible cook, shitty mother and great at spending money she didn’t earn. After our “pussy as currency” conversation she further revealed all her orgasms were fiction and she had never cum, ever. Lots of intermediary drama before I finally left, but my big take away was I was so pissed and disgusted with her I stopped having sex and lost all attraction to her in the final months.

    In my second marriage (by choice not sperm jacking) I went full beta putting all her needs before mine. From the beginning the sex was mediocre but adequate ( and initially affirmational). I put in herculean efforts supporting her goals, got nothing but shit-on and became resentful for lack of any thanks or even recognition. Once the resentment set in, I lost interest in sex with her. In hindsight, and after some reading, I realize this was my form of protest. It was the only impotent weapon I felt I had. I didn’t even realize I was doing this at the time.

    In any case my loss of interest in fucking her was the final tipping point to the end of the marriage. I agree sex is the glue, for both sexes.

    I was never “over the moon” with sex with my second wife. I rationalized it as a sacrifice to make as I didn’t think good sex and a good partnership were possible. In the beginning I truly enjoyed her company and wrote off lackluster sex as a price of entry. She was mid 30’s post epiphany when we met. She had a successful career, making more than me and I now suspect I was getting starfish and she was likely an alpha widow. In the end I think larger issues were the demise of the marriage but all star sex probably would have kept us together longer or at least happier when in it.

    As a prolog I’ll say I now have a gf 7 years younger than me and am having some of the best sex of my life. I intended this relationship to be transitional as she was one of the first since my most recent marriage break up however the great sex has kept her in my life. I am also resisting blue pill conditioning of “one itis”. When I apply the Rollo criteria of “is this a woman I can stay faithful to?” my answer is no. BTW I think this is such a powerful question it bears reinforcement.

  38. Cutting bait

    A friend once busted out a tape measure to illustrate life. He paid out 80 inches of tape and said “this is your life”. Now think about diminished function at the 80” mark. Vanished libido, creaky joints, enlarged prostate. Knock off 5”-10”, so you’re now at 70”. Viewing life in a literal sense right in front of yourself like this should add a sense of urgency, and not to finish binge watching Survivor.

    I’ve been blessed with good health and both from genetics and a lifelong dedication to fitness thanks to being bullied as a child. I’m anticipating high function to near the end of my run but for me there’s not a ton of distance left.

    In any case reviewing my life through a newly acquired Red Pill lens has me thinking of all the wasted time. On several occasions I stayed in relationships too long, years too long. Beta conditioning instilled shyness and fear of confrontation. Couple that with not being my own mental point of origin which produced a “fear of hurting the other”. What did all this add up to? I can think of three long term relationships where I spent 2-3 years with rising unhappiness but stuck it out. That’s a wasted decade. Not just 10 years but 10 of my best years. If I had the Red Pill mindset in my 20’s I think I could have gained closer to 20 years of happier times. I’m certain this would have translated to greater success on all fronts with a fat bank account to coast to the end of the tape.

    The last instance of wasted time was my most recent Blue Pill marriage. Being conservative, I stayed 3 years too long being mostly unhappy with occasional sunny breaks.

    When I left I had resolved that not just in relationships but all things “when I’m unhappy, I’ll make a change”. I haven’t yet resolved how to focus this resolution with a Red Pill mindset but I’m working on it.

    I have several very good friends in their early 20’s and I fear they will make my mistakes. I gifted all of them a RM for Christmas. One of the things I’m going to try to instill is to be more ruthless and know when to cut bait.

    This is mostly a ramble but I think cutting bait is under rated, don’t waste time. I’m going to make the most of what’s left and am glad to have the new clarity of the Red Pill.

  39. Mike Land

    “When I left I had resolved that not just in relationships but all things “when I’m unhappy, I’ll make a change”. I haven’t yet resolved how to focus this resolution with a Red Pill mindset but I’m working on it.”

    Have you been introduced to The Platinum Rule?

    TPR – do whatever YOU want to do, whenever YOU feel like doing it.

    A reliable way to start upping the alpha, working towards 24/7/365 displays of the Alpha Triad… A Dynamic, Passionate and Authentic life.

    https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/sentients-dynamic-passionate-authentic-framework/

  40. IAS

    Good stuff mayne. Your post and Mike Land’s post got me thinking and reminiscing. And, I don’t really think back too much because I always believed it was sign of getting old, lol.

    Learning. My first sexual experience, as you know, came at 13. In fact, I’d just turned 13. She was 15. We were both virgins, but I’d hoped that she wasn’t a virgin at the time. Idk, I figured one of us had to know what we were doing. That very first time started out nerve wracking for me, because she looked an awful lot like this here –

    https://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/16269067/750full-daphne-joy.jpg

    …. and she too was Filipino and Puerto Rican.

    At first I was not certain exactly how far our little make out session was going to go. I’d seen girls my age that had just started to grow breasts and such, but I’d never actually seen D cups up close, discounting Raquel Welch and Pam Grier on movie screens. Lol. So at first, I was really into just looking. I unbuttoned her white silk blouse, and holy shit, lmao. She covered her face with both hands like she was embarrassed, and I commenced trying to figure out how to unleash those things from that bra. In the meantime I noticed my dick was harder than I’d ever seen it before. So much so, that I unzipped and pulled my pants down mid thigh to relieve the confinement. Evidently she’d never seen a dick before, lol, so she grabbed onto it and inspected it up close. I didn’t really know anything about blowjobs or anything, and neither did she, but I could feel her heavy breath on my Johnson and the rollercoaster began. I was fumbling around with that damn bra, and I was light-headed and breathing like I’d run a marathon, my dick had turned to granite and I felt like I was bursting into flame for real – so I grabbed the bra, in the front, and tore it off. Nipples!!! Yay!!! So we rolled around on the couch, rubbing and kissing and all that stuff, then everything just went on autopilot. I remember trying to rip her pants off, lol, because she was trying to shimmy those 36 inch hips out of pants with a 23 inch waist and I was getting impatient. She got them off and I tore off her panties. I don’t even remember what color they were.

    Where’s the pussy? I only saw a slit with fuzz around it. That’s a pussy?? Wtf??? She was panting and writhing around, and I had one hand with a death grip on a boob, but now my attention went into trying to figure out what happened to her vagina. Where am I supposed to put my dick?? Now I was getting a little pissed at my own confusion and ignorance. I picked her up, kicked some couch pillows onto the floor and laid her on them. We were both butt ass naked at this point, and she looked amazing, but I’d hit a wall. I didn’t see a pussy. I don’t know what I’d expected. Everyone said it was ” a hole “. Nobody said anything about a slit. So where’s the hole already?

    So I reached down between her legs and then I was momentarily shocked. It was boiling hot and sticky wet. Very wet. But where the fuck was all that wetness coming from? Awww fuck it!! I sat up between her legs and raised both legs up and spread them as wide as they’d go. Viola!!! Pussy!!!! Christopher Columbus ain’t got shit on me. Didn’t look like my dick was ever going to fit in there. What to do? So I asked her ” You wanna? You ready??”, and she just wailed a long moan and turned red in the face and was sweating. She looked gorgeous, and yeah, this was going to hurt…but…she’ll be okay, right?

    So I laid on top of her, and she wrapped her arms and legs around me, and I fumbled, and fumbled, and fumbled. She was getting off on all my clumsy attempts to try to find the spot to insert myself. Eventually I managed to force the tip in, and she clamped down on me with the limbs and sunk her teeth into my shoulder. I pushed and pushed, and she bit down harder and harder, but I couldn’t get in farther. But she was into it, so I pulled out, and went back in, again and again until she ” loosened ” up a bit, and then I went in balls deep and she ripped my back to shreds. I didn’t feel it at all, lol. After about 5 or 10 minutes, we got in sync and then it was on another level.

    Then out of nowhere, I felt that orgasm coming, so I pulled out ( because can’t get girls pregnant ), but I didn’t know where to aim, so I blasted her on the belly, on the face, in her eye, in here hair. Oopppssss…. I ran into the kitchen and grabbed some paper towels.

    The 2nd time was 2 or 3 days later. It was much better than the first because now I knew the lay of the land ( no pun ). And the 2nd time was in a proper bed, and only her panties got ripped off.

    Then she was my GF.

    All my boys were mad and jealous. I never ever discussed what I was doing, or if I was doing, but seeing my back streaking blood through my t-shirts told on me, and when she was around she just sat next to me with her head on my shoulder.

    And she was how I learned. We’d have sex at least 5-6 times a week. For 2 years. I was in LURV!!!!! I was going to marry her!!!!

    Beautiful.

    But…

    Look at the pic I posted above again.

    I couldn’t walk down the street with her without guys yelling and hollering, even older men in their 20’s and 30’s…and older. To my young inexperienced mind, this was a tortuous shit show. Hell, these guys had cars!!! And jobs!!! And she was older than me!!!! And she didn’t look like a kid!!!!

    So I became an overprotective stalker. I controlled her every move. I even made her change the way she dressed ( that helped nothing, lol ). If I caught her talking to a guy and smiling, I’d drag her away and yell at her, sometimes she got a slap ( yes, that’s true. Not proud of that shit ).

    She broke up with me. Motherfuckers were lined up around the block, and I was helpless to do anything about it. Dudes would come around, talking about the bad ass ” Asian ” chick and how they fucked her, or were going to fuck her.

    skip….skip….skip….suicide attempt….skip….skip…

    I was as mentally fucked as a man can be…at 15 that is.

    I talked to my dad, and asked him if I could leave Jersey and move down south with my uncle and finish school. Lol, my dad saw that I was a basket case, but he was clueless what to do about it, so he agreed.

    So I swore off bitches at 15. Fuck these hoes. Lmao.

    I enrolled in highschool, the new boy from up north, and the chicks came running. I soundly rejected every one of them. My uncle sat me down, and seriously asked me if I was gay. His sister in law, who was 24 at the time, was wetting her pants over me ( she was beautiful too ) and Uncle could see it. She kept trying to ” isolate ” me ( come over and let’s listen to music…I’m all by myself ), but I gave her the coldest of cold shoulders, and it only made her chase harder.

    That entire year, I didn’t bang anybody. I didn’t even masturbate. Lol. I lifted, and boxed, and did a shitload of yardwork. I got straight A’s.

    Almost all of the guys I’d met in school were still virgins. They talked about sex constantly, and I’d just get up and walk away.

    I came home to Jersey for the summer, and worked with my dad. I turned 16.

    On my 16th birthday, a girl named Reese who was 19, came to see me and give me a birthday present ( blowjob ), and it turned into sex. All out sex. Then I immediately told her to leave. Lol. Then it was Gloria and Layla and Chiquita and Bai and Constance. Okay, maybe I won’t swear off sex, but fuck ” love ” forever.

    When I returned to school in September, I decided to fuck all girls that showed the slightest interest, but no girlfriends. I started with the seniors because they were more down for sex, but I worked backwards from there, avoiding freshmen like the plague. My cousins were attending VCU and UVA, so I’d go visit and bang college girls.

    I found that if I wanted to, I could still have sex 4-5 times a week without the GF commitment. And, I could still tear bras and panties off as much as I wanted to. I could bang cheeleaders, and track girls, and tennis girls and even Spanish teachers and band girls, and I didn’t have to talk about it or feel badly – just enjoy it for what it is and keep it moving.

    It took a good 2 years before I was fully back to ” normal ” after my first sexual encounter.

    Lol, so after 5-6 years, I finally told this story here.

    end/

  41. Oh, Prologue: I did bang my uncle’s sis in law. She was spending the night and did the old ” sneak in your room ” routine, and I tried to fuck her to death, lol, I tried to muffle her screams with a pillow and almost suffocated her.

    The next morning, mu uncle asked me if I heard the ” squirrels in the walls ” last night, so I said ” yeah sure, I heard them “. So he says ” You should kill ’em so they don’t keep you awake ” and I replied ” I almost killed one last night “.

    He gave me a high 5 and my first cigar.

  42. Field Report from 1/1/2020 to 1/12/2020

    ABSTRACT

    For the past two weeks I have scheduled specific time to go out and approach women with the main intent to get to know them and date them. I am following the MM Newbie Drill as a template, going out 4 days per week, for 4 hours per day. I am focusing on day game but will go and approach night game during weekends if going out with the boys. My goals are as follows: for the next 13 weeks, open 100 sets per week/ 25 sets per day to improve in approaching, attraction and seduction. If I don’t reach 100 opened sets in person, I hit up facebook and chat up the baes. My main inspiration for this experiment is to improve in my own communication skills and develop discipline to take action whether I want to or not. One thing I’ve truly grasped is how much I have yet to learn before I get to my desired skill level. It’s very humbling. I feel where I wish to go is dependent on time spent in the field, practicing and fine tuning what I learn and re-applying my learning in new social situations. I am curious about what my personal results will be and feel the only way to truly know and understand this must now be determined through my own experimentation and analysis. I am posting for the sake that those who are at a similar place as me might feel inspired to gather their own feedback and those who are more skilled and have went through those initial growing pains of learning social dynamics through their own experimentation will be able to offer insight, feedback and inspirations for continued learning. Results from the past two weeks as follows:

    Week 1
    SETS OPENED 75
    IN PERSON 26
    FACEBOOK 49
    #CLOSE 5
    * CLOSE 0
    I DATES 0
    Bangs 0

    Week 2
    SETS OPENED 100
    IN PERSON 29
    FACEBOOK 71
    #CLOSE 3
    * CLOSE 0
    I DATES 0
    Bangs 0

    INTRO
    To get things started I’ll share with you where I’m at thus far. I am 28 yo, just moved myself to a new apartment near the NJ shore area and I am hungry to learn this new skill- the skill to know and understand how to attract beautiful women. I got into personal development about 4 years ago when I had started in my first sales job. I’ve been hooked ever sense. I’ve read books by napoleon hill, zig Ziglar, dale Carnegie, Robert Kiyosaki etc. I adore this type of material and absorb it voraciously. I’ve also read the likes of Frank Herbert, Ayn Rand, and others. I have a successful sales job now, a great social circle of friends, and a hunger to improve myself as a male to see what my potential could be.

    If there is one thing that has led me down the rabbit hole to the rational male and the red pill I’d have to call it dissatisfaction. I’m not totally inexperienced with women (some of you may laugh at this). I’ve rattled a modest 22 women over the course of my life with little knowledge of game or my state of masculinity or lack there of. I’ve had a handful of LTR’s with virtually unlimited physical contact and an occasional booty call and one night stand. Yet I found that if I wanted to go after those girls whom I found as the most attractive, I felt totally inept. I had no clue what to do and no track to run on. I discovered some PUA material a while ago and applied as much as I could, and I was impressed. As for achieving my goals, my own approach anxiety was holding me back. I rediscovered Rollo Tomassi and the red pill and have recently been diving in. I’m working my way through each podcast on the Rollo’s youtube (love TRP 101 its sooo good), purchased myself a copy of The Rational Male and a few other books about masculinity and social dynamics in the 21st century (which I intend to read as soon as I finish Mastery by RG), and now feel as if the time has come to put in some work here and gather some applicable knowledge and reference experience because I feel I must develop this skill.

    I’m very much interested in developing my own personal communication skills. I feel that if I stick to this program that after 1300 opened sets, I’d have to have learned something and improved something within myself. After opening 55 sets in person, I certainly have realized this program is really humbling and I have a lot of respect for those who have gone down this path because its exhausting, challenging, and on a positive note, addicting and gratifying. Some immediate observations is in my own anxiety and attitude and state of mind when going out to game especially during the day. One of the things that took me so long to get this started is I could not even bring myself to do cold approaches alone within a set time frame during the day. The idea would make me cringe. And it did for the last time since I’ve started. Now I’m in the midst of a complete mindset shift where I can’t wait for the time to come for me to get out and start meeting women. Only after 55 opened in person sets I find I’m not so scared with failing now, because I know the more I fail the more I succeed. I can only imagine where I’ll be after the 500th set and beyond. And I’m putting in the work now to get me there and I’m curious to see what kind of results I observe.

    Game plan

    Open as many sets in person as possible. A set is opened when I run a direct/ indirect opener. A set is hooked when I meet my target and hit a social hook point. At this point I apply DHV’s, IOI’s IOD’s for bad behavior, cocky funny, pacing/ leading, etc. My goal is to build attraction and close for an I date, bounce as many times as needed, and push things as far physically as I possibly can.

    Notable SETS

    GIRL IN CAMO JACKET and GIRL IN TARGET (day game)

    Two of my first sets I opened during this journey. These were humbling because they were total crash and burn learning experiences. I went in to open and I got that far (I opened with something like I had to tell you I really like your style), then my mind went black. I felt uncomfortable, I was over thinking things and I don’t even think I was formulating real sentences. Now that I think about it both girls were giggly and had this response like this was so spur of the moment and had no idea what was going on (kind of like how I felt). Both were attractive, very cute faces and sexy bodies. Girls that I would always see and never approach because I knew I was attracted to them and was afraid of rejection. I went in with no expectations while getting a feel for approaching. These two sets got the wheels turning and set me up for where I am today and where I will be far down the road.

    BRIDGET (day game)

    So I like to lift. In fact I’m passionate about health and wellness and powerlifting (big fan of starting strength). Talking to girls in the gym is a discomfort zone for me. Probably because the baes are so cute and fit and are essentially my ideal women. What are your thoughts/ best practices on gym game/ hitting on the ladies at the gym?

    Anyway, I saw this girl working out next to me. She was average but I got one or two ioi’s from her. Eye contact and proximity. She was wearing her college shirt so I opened her and asked her if she went to that school. She opened up, we met eachother and the set hooked, we chatted, I found out where she’s from and what she’s training for (she’s an athlete and coach). She was into the interaction, I feel I could have pushed this farther and # closed her for a future workout, but I bounced because I wanted to get my workout done.

    RACHEL (day game)

    I’ve been going to the mall to spend my time doing the MM newbie drill. As I’m walking around I see this girl waiting in line for her Wendys. She’s cute with a nice body and an interesting style. I walk past her and do what I’ve since learned is the Yad approach where you let a girl pass you, turn around as if you couldn’t help yourself, run up to her and say what’s up. It’s an interesting practice in body language and its pretty fun to do especially with moving targets. I have been having good results with this as well.

    Anyway, I turn around and approach her and say “hey, I was just walking by but I saw you and I had to tell you I really like your style, im Oatis btw.” I met my target, the set hooked and we chatted for a few mins. She tells me what she does for a living, how old she is, I’m making fun of her style, she was wearing a harness, so I called her a squirrelly navy seal. When I closed her, I fumbled over my words but just maintained eye contact and told her we were meeting up for coffee. She told me she had a bf and put her number in my phone anyway (lol girls are so funny).

    LINDSAY BARNES AND NOBLE (day game)

    I see this cute skinny girl browsing for a book. Her pants caught my attention, so I walk past her, turn around using the yad approach, tell her something like “hey I was just walking by and I thought to myself I like that girls style so I had to come over and tell you, im oatis btw”. I meet my target and the set didn’t really hook. I asked her a few questions to get convo out of her but was met with kind of a smiley blankness if I could call it anything. I told her it was nice to meet her then I ejected (I had to take a trip to the bathroom).

    Brittany (night Game)

    I see this girl in a yellow taco bell shirt and purple hair. I’m about to leave this bar with my friends but I challenged myself to one more number so I went in and opened this girl direct, I say something like “hey im about to get out of here but before I do I had to tell you I saw you and thought to myself I really like that girls style, I’m Oatis btw.” I meet my target and the set hooks. We chatted, got to know each other, she’s qualifying herself to me and asking me about myself. I tried bouncing her to the next bar that we were going to, but logistics got in the way as she was with her family celebrating her upcoming bday. I told her we should grab a drink/ a coffee and smoothly # closed her. As I’m leaving I point to my cheek and ask her for a kiss goodbye (channeling my inner Style lol) to which she obliges and gives me a hug goodbye. If anything it builds my social proof and calibration which I’m happy with.

    Conclusion

    For the past two weeks I have been scheduling 16 hours per week to approach the most beautiful women I can find mainly during the day and when needed during the evening and thru online/ fb. The learning and experience so far has been impressive. Out of the gate, I can say confidently my mindset and attitude during daygame has significantly improved. I’m not so anxious anymore and feel I can get consistent opens and hooks. I’m training myself to see IOI’s from the women I see out and about. I’ll approach whether I receive an IOI or not. Gaming sober is very different and I feel like I am way more perceptive and tuned in to what’s going on in the environment around me. I am excited to continue to practice what I learn through each approach. What I would like to continue is open consistently and what I would like to start is pushing my interactions farther physically and more quickly. I’m excited to see what I get myself into in the following weeks. Thank you.

  43. Jersey girls.

    This summer go to Seaside, get a house or hotel/motel room for the weekend, and bring 2 dozen condoms.

  44. @Outis

    Good stuff.

    What is the breakdown of number closes between “in person” and Facebook? Also, when you say “open” on FB, what do you mean? Are these girls already your friends or friends of friends or just random girls etc?

    Doing online stuff (whether Facebook or Tinder etc) is based on the same principles as real life but some of the practicalities are different. I used to do a lot of it, but honestly you’re better off focusing on the real life stuff for a million different reasons. It’s fine to have online as a back up for real life, but be cautious of turning online into the “main event”.

    Don’t talk yourself down – 22 women is well above the national average which is around 10 women lifetime for an American man – and you’re only 28.

    You may want to check my Field Report in around late June 2018 in this topic, for when I did a similar challenge to you (400 opens in a few days) – I think you’re doing great, but both my FR and some of the responses to it from several people might give you some interesting insights into the deeper dynamics involved.

    What happened with Camo Girl and Target Girl? You say you crashed and burned but you also say they gave IOIs – what exactly happened?

    Re gym: just think of it as a social circle (but a loose one). You have an enduring reputation from visit to visit (not a random nightclub). So you can still hit on girls, you just don’t want the reputation of being “that guy” who hits on all of them (it doesn’t matter in a nightclub). I would suggest just keeping everything more low-key in the gym – don’t do direct openers, be more social with everyone (guys and girls) and then let the IOIs develop a bit more slowly and eventually you can pounce. Basically: more low-key, no direct approaches. Don’t worry about not getting Gym Girl’s number. You can do it next time or the time after that. You can actually get some practice here at the gym of getting the girls to chase YOU because you know you’ll probably see them again.

    Rachel: Overall very good. Remember she might flake when you text/call because of the boyfriend and that’s fine – not your fault (optimal would have been an instadate). Remember the Yad Stop (and even if you don’t use the Yad Stop, the words you are using to open are the same) is a form of a direct approach and has the same downside (they can work, but you’re basically forcing the girl to make an instant decision about you based on your looks and approach because you’re already expressing interest on the open – if those are good enough then you’re fine, but it’s generally better on the percentages to go indirect and let her show IOIs first – if you’re into lifting etc you’re probably above average looking so less important for you).

  45. RE; Palma Sailer and “those who can’t do teach”. Not picking a fight, just offering an alternative view. I got this from a book called “Smart Thinking” that I revisit annually. I suspect it is also covered in “Mastery” which is on my reading list.

    Paraphrasing; Learning and gaining mastery of a given subject has 3 stages.

    1 exposure – reading, seminar, video etc.

    2 Practice – actually using the new learned skill

    3 Teaching – pass skills on to another.

    This is how medicine is taught.

    My filter one credibility is whether the teacher has actually done the practice part. I disqualify Tony Robbins and other like him as they have not “walked the walk” but only “talk the talk”.

    Not all teachers are full of shit, but some certainly are.

  46. Some similarities, @Blax, between your first time and mine. D-cups…check. Gazed at them with open mouth…check. Older than I was…check. About the same body type…check.

    Here it changes…I knew about pussies from having finger-banged several girls.

    My girl was a natural blonde and just a little shorter than me, but about 20 lbs heavier because I was a featherweight. Ethnically Dutch.

    My girl was experienced…with her fiance. She knew about sex, somewhat. Not much about multiple sex partners, though.

    My girl called me over to her dorm room like she said she would. Unexpected. I had expected her to back out and had made other plans, but I canceled them and went over to see her in her dorm room. My girl let me in the back door and we were alone in the dorm. My girl walks me into her room and sits on the floor and I do the same. She unfastens her bra and giggles as she removes it. Then my girl grabs her sweater and pulls it over her head, throws the sweater to the side, and fold her arms under her tits, giggling. My jaw drops. I was a dear in the headlights. No girl has ever done that with me before. But the surprise isn’t over. My girl stands me up and pulls off my pants and grabs my dick in both hands…to measure it…for length and circumference…wow! That’s very deliberately sexual. Kind of like a guy thinks. My girl was majoring in mathematics, so it kind of made sense. Still, I felt like I had sneaked into a secret garden.

    My girl was on the pill. She said. But there were reasons to believe her, especially since she was engaged. I came in her within five minutes and she was disappointed because she thought that sex was over. Five minutes later I was ready to go again and my girl came within a few minutes, with a big smile on her face at the end and lots of grunting and moaning. Then I started to put my clothes on and my girl said, “Where are you going?” D*mn, she wanted a lot more sex and wanted me to sleep in her room at night. A little more insight into a girl’s secret garden.

    We f*cked 5 or 6 times…a day, lol. I fell in love, of course, but I knew we had to break up because of her engagement. My girl flew home at the end of the week. The breakup was painful, but it was easier knowing that my girl was going through it, too.

    My girl broke up with her fiance about 6 mos. later.

    That’s how it went down, I sh*t you not.

  47. Short one just for kicks. Haven’t been poasting.. Still extracating from some earlier situs…

    Travel with W. I have to meet a client for a drink. Happy hour. Go to the spot. Place is quiet. Real nice mid 40s woman (thought mid 30s) drinking a glass of wine and playing with her phone.

    So what do you do Culum?

    I just opened her instead of waiting for her to open me, because I was expecting this client any minute.

    “So what brings you out?” Standing next to her.

    She looks up from jer phone. Boom. Big smile. Phone closed and put away. She says she just had a massage nearby.

    OK! I say yeah you look really chill… She says she feels so loose. I say they get to all the the stress spots? She laughs. Little laser.

    Then we get into 10 minutes of comfort/rapport stuff. I asked her if she’d ever been married and she said no. This was a surprise. She says she’s unique. I ask if she has a cat. She says no. I say well maybe you are unique then.

    Little more joking and banter and laser. She just started in real estate and says it’s not going well. I tell her she is terrible she didn’t slip me a card within 30 seconds. She laughs. Then my guy shows up. He introduces himslef to her so now she gies her name and asks mine. Shake hands. Hold a little to long. We keep her in the convo for a bit then shift to work. She goes back to her phone till another guy comes and seats a seat away from her.

    Huge tactical error on his part. I’m watching as I talk to my guy. New guy orders a bottle of wine. Then offers her a glass. Now she has two in front of her. Then he orders shrimp amd makes her have one. So now she has dinner… They are talking and the guy is leaning all the way over because of the seat in between. He can’t Kino etc. And she makes no effort to close the gap. But they are chatting.

    Interestingly she didn’t sneak looks at me in between from what I could see. But I felt I had her. Finish my convo with my guy. He leans over and says “oh hey sorry I messed tgis up for you, looks like you could have closed that”. I tell him to relax I’m in town with the W. He splits to get his kid. I pay out.

    After paying I push my guy’s chair back to the bar loudly. On purpose. Then turn my back to her while putting on my jacket. Spin arpund to walk past her. Not looking at her, just peripheral vision.

    Sure enough she breaks off from mew guy mid sentace turns around to catch my gaze. Says “it was really great meeting you”. I laugh amd say “do you have a card?” Like she was a child. She laughs and gets a card out. As she is handing it to me I pull her in and say in her ear “it’s not what you think” she goes “ahhh” smiles. I say “do you want me to call you?” She says “yes. If you want to”. Laser her deep. “I do”. She smiles and I roll out.

    New guy just sitting there with his shrimp while tgis goes down…

  48. Hi guys, since the FR section’s been a bit quiet lately , i’d like to take the opportunity to ask you to check out a tinder exchange i had with a girl, no need for an extensive breakdown, just an advice what i did wrong and if I can do anything to get her out :). I would’ve asked on seddit but I don’t trust those guys there and you are quite good here 🙂 . ( I think last line i texted was stupid since she hasn’t replied yet and usually does quick replies 😀 ). I feel like I chased her too much at some point and decided to dial down a bit, then stopped for 10 days no chats and now i baaaack :D, she is 22 btw. Thanks

    https://imgur.com/a/U2cLrrU

  49. Stefan

    After she says

    “That sounds like a good idea”

    Just say “number”.

    If she then complies with the number request, you can set up a face to face, but leave out the question marks. Just assume the sale, put the date and time in and take it from there. Look back over your thread, you were amusing but she isn’t really complying. You need compliance before you set a date.

  50. Stefan

    There was a chance just before that to make her qualify/comply, when she asks you “what about you!” you then qualify her.

    “really depends, what am I dealing with here?” etc. Get her to qualify/comply before trying to arrange a date, and arrange the date after she qualifies further with her number.

    Can you see the progression?

  51. Has the storm passed? Is it safe for me to post now?

    Sentient, what I found most interesting about that FR was the sense that beyond a certain point (when you understand the basic principles and don’t have to think too much about it consciously – like learning to drive) – it’s about “being”, not “doing”. It’s not what you do, it’s who you are and how you embody that. That’s why it looks like you did “nothing” or that you did exactly the same as the other guy trying to pick her up, but had different results (when in fact you were so different from him below the surface).

    Presumably you won’t call her? Not in her city long enough etc?

    Stefan man, what Sentient said, but the main thing I can tell you is to stop with the online stuff and go talk to a girl in real life. You will learn more and ahve better results. If you insist on learning much lower percentage text/Tinder game, go read the section on text game in the YaReally Archive and practice it on lots of girls.

    Also try not to use “classic” PUA lines like “You look like trouble” or “drinks with a cute boy”. She had enough attraction for you to stay in the conversation – you needed to have escalated to a meetup faster – that would have told you immediately if she was attention whoring (most likely, since she said “not sure about meeting up”) or up for a drink.

  52. Culum

    *it’s about “being”, not “doing”. *

    Yup. the Alpha Triad on display right?

    It’s not what you do, it’s who you are and how you embody that.

    It’s also what you don’t do… Don’t try hard, don’t pay too much attention. Don’t be afraid to put in gaps, tests, roll offs… Don’t be afraid to lose. But in the end testing the truth of the situation Bobby Judge (RIP) style… You can’t get to an authenticity, that I swear they can smell, unless you have a track record of testing the truth of the situations.

    when in doubt, act. test. Learn. Move on.

    I may be back in a few weeks, think I will try then. But you know how these follow ups tend to go.

  53. Thanks Sentient, I tried that with “number” and to get her to comply on a different chick and she gave me her number, let’s see if i can get her to meet.
    The first chick is attention whoring I think, still replying but going nowhere…

    @Culum
    Yes, I agree, ever since you guys scolded me last month, i’ve been reading on cold approaches and stuff. ( krauser, todd v, tusk,etc )

    Btw, I try to stay away from black pill stuff as it poisons the mind as you’ve said before but this video is too real to ignore and quite funny too 😀 ( can’t argue with the part about tinder and okcupid 😀 )

  54. @Stefan

    Be wise brother and heed my words. One man’s attention whore is another man’s siren. An impossibly hot blonde was treating everyone like they were passable until this one man plucked up the courage to pay her a well-deserved compliment with his deep voice. That’s all he had the balls to do with her and left her after that. She was then emboldened and noticed that I noticed her but wasn’t reacting too much. I just gave her an appreciative glance. She paraded her legs and ass to try to get my attention. I walk up to her and “Bambi Eyes”. I told her to get out of my way, I wanted coffee.

    She felt shot down and rejected. I was trying not to “look desperate” in those days.

    Women drain attention from men to feel “capable” with other men.

    Sometimes, the other man is YOU.

    Be compassionate to attention whores. They love “for free”.

  55. That video is hilarious and it makes me miss my man @J.

    Stef, do me a solid. For the next 60 days, whenever you leave your home, I’d like you to take note of his many super handsome, buff, model like ” Chad ” Men you see when out and about.

    I work where there are 600+ people concentrated. There are only a few super model types out of around 250 men of all ages.

    The thing about women ruling any dating market is a function of the online world. All of that shit is a) delusional and b) in women’s frames. It’s like a vr world where fat to average women get to talk shit and judge guys ( they can’t do it in real life as easily ), while they still wind up having sex with regular dudes.😂

    All is not lost. Don’t take any of that bullshit to heart. If you believe it in your core, strangers will have power over you.

    There is much more to having sex with women, any women, than whether or not you look like a movie star or model. Google married couples. Observe couples while out.

    Another thing, this shit about women taking a man’s resources😂😂 , do you think an hb9 will reject a man’s resources? Most women at the core look for provision in some form. The blurring issue comes about when looking for the quick, snl bang. That’s a higher bar. That takes a measure of game. No secrets. No magic. No combination of words strung together. No shirt and pants combo.

    Lastly, that video talks about ” lazy ” . Hunting down broads for sex isn’t for lazy motherfuckers. You need to watch that video and LISTEN. Women aren’t enigmas. You can read them, and they will tell you everything, if you understand what you are actually hearing. 99% of them speak ” cat ” and you fail when you hear ” dog “.

    So go forth and enumerate the numbers of super handsome buff actor model types you see. Check out men with girlfriend and wives and side hoes. Your eyes will not lie to you. Movies, videos, television, aren’t real life. There are truths you must grasp and internalize for yourself.

  56. Stefan / Blax

    Stef, do me a solid. For the next 60 days, whenever you leave your home, I’d like you to take note of his many super handsome, buff, model like ” Chad ” Men you see when out and about.

    Stefan go one further. Observe the guys who are out with girls… lol

    The REAL WORLD is not on a screen. [despite what MTV may say]

    So you saw compliance with number girl. Good. Learn from it.

    Now what is stopping you from getting your attention whore to comply? Why are you scared to force it? Thirst.

  57. Field report 1/23/2020: I opened Karen direct at A Local Watering Hole. She’s a HB6/ Average gal. We have personalities that have similar interests. When we met initially, I opened her direct, I DHV’ed and was fairly direct with my communication and sub-communication, and I number closed her and told her something like “I gotta run, but put your number in here and I’ll give you a call, we can grab a coffee sometime.” She obliged, gave me her number, we continued to chat, then her and her friends found themselves an uber to another bar.

    I forgot about her. Then out of the blue, I get a pic from her (not a nude unfortunately :/) We chat for a bit then I close for the date (I take the pic as an IOI). I ask her when her next day off is then set a coffee date for that day, to which she agrees.

    It’s been a while since I was on a proper coffee date with a girl. My main goal here is to keep the conversation going forward, pepper in DHV’s as much as possible, and bounce to another location to get food and drinks. We get our coffees, she looks cute and surprisingly we have some similar interests. I ask a lot of questions and pretty much get her life story because she’s a talker. I kino escalate by grabbing her hands and complimenting her nails and grabbing and complimenting her necklace.

    We spend about 45 mins at Starbucks. I’m ready for some food and a beverage. I ask her if she had any lunch yet to which she answers she had not. I bounce her to a bar restaurant across the street. We continue our conversation, I DHV, she qualifies to me and I’m getting positive Kino from her. There was a point in time where she was telling me a story and her hand finds its way on my thigh, which I take as an IOI. From here we continue to chat and I’m getting some info about logistics. She has plans this evening with her friends – which I try to get her out of – but she is resilient. I drive her to her car and look her in the eye and ask her for a kiss goodbye, to which she enthusiastically says yes, and we make out in my car for a minute, then I let her go. I feel like I’m back in high school lolol.

    A few things I think I did well:

    • Working in sales, I’m pretty good at conversation. I know how to ask questions, get info, build rapport, and when I communicating have laser focus eye contact.

    • The bounce was smooth, I really did want to get some food and was up for a beer too. I was very nonchalant and at east, and I feel this worked out to my advantage as Karen was also very at ease.

    • Naturally, I’m a pretty humble guy. I did a good job at listening to Karen as she told me about her and i di not dominate the convo.

    A few things I change/ start to do:

    • I think I should have sexualized the conversation earlier as we were at Starbucks. I’m a bit chicken about this and yet I think had I just started earlier, I could have bounced earlier, then bounced back to Karen’s house for endgame. Non of this was canned, just vibing, having fun/ asking questions, channeling my resourcefulness. I’m curious to hear what you guys have done successfully on dates the led to positive results.

    • As much as I enjoy meeting and learning about new people and their stories (I really do enjoy this) I need to be more comfortable pacing and leading the interaction forward as fast and as efficiently as possible to the best possible mutual outcome. I feel this will come with practice.

    • I specifically remember when I found karen’s hand on my knee, I was looking at it and all I wanted to do was guide it slowly up my leg, at least to mid thigh, escalating the tension. This would have been fun. I didn’t do it and I kick myself for it. I’ll do it next time I promise. Pretty much, give Karen more opportunities to “chase” and be the predator and build the tension

    A few things to stop:

    • I don’t mean to come off as shallow. Especially since I find I enjoy taking gals on proper dates. That being said, I would like to be more efficient and move things forward towards the logical end as quickly as possible with as little financial investment. I must stop wimping out in in front of women that I find attractive, and just proceed naturally forward.

    Thank you.

  58. Outis

    I would like to be more efficient and move things forward towards the logical end as quickly as possible with as little financial investment. I must stop wimping out in in front of women that I find attractive, and just proceed naturally forward.

    Nice FR. If you really want to move as quickly as possible, you need to sort logistics up front first and foremost. Logistics will always beat Game.

    So backward plan your Day 2 from the sex location. Make everything fit into that plan.

    So in this case, a) you got an unsolicited pic (huge IOI) and b) immediate update on getting together (huge IOI)

    but then…

    My main goal here is to keep the conversation going forward, pepper in DHV’s as much as possible, and bounce to another location to get food and drinks.

    You make your main goal ^^^^ this. Not sex…

    Now you have to recover when you decide you really did want sex.

    Plan from the end state back. So to hit your goal, next time might look more like this:

    a) Received pic
    b) Sorted her availability to meet
    c) Invited her over to my place for coffee/drink/play video games/help me clean out my closet (whatever)
    d) ran my Day 2 Game in person
    e) escalated
    f) Banged her on my kitchen table… etc.

    It’s all up to you.

    PS – so if she won’t come right over you et the meet as close aqs possible to your place so your bounce is back to your place.

  59. I don’t think I’ve ever asked a girl if I could kiss her.

    A lost fr that I didn’t write up from last month was going to be about a chick that shoved her tongue in my mouth mid sentence/conversation. Didn’t see that coming at all.list

    I get the climate today is weird and guys are ( rightly) concerned about permission, and at least there was some make out, but I think it’s still important to take a measure of control.

    How? That’s a good question. I guess it will depend on the ability to read the situation accurately.

    The cool thing about the fr above is that the next time, you won’t have to ask anything.

  60. Blax
    a chick that shoved her tongue in my mouth mid sentence/conversation.

    Lol. This was standard for me when ending dates in younger times. Be saying “Well I had a nice ni——— (garbled)”.

  61. Sentient

    😂😂😂

    Yu p, but I got slobbed down @ work. She kept getting closer and closer, but I took it as flirting.

    To make matters kinda worse, I tried pushing her back a little and wound up with a handful of titty.

  62. @Outis – bit rushed, so will try to come back with more later in the next day or two.

    Good advice from Sentient and Blax.

    Basically this is like reading one of my own FRs from around 2013. You’re doing well, but you need to learn and internalize (which you will – it just takes some practice and experience) that you can escalate a lot more, and a lot faster than most men assume, IF you have the social skills and calibration to read the signs – both the IOIs and the subtle signs saying “back off” or “not yet”.

    You had some exceptionally strong IOIs – you could very likely have slept with her on the day of the date (if you’d managed the logistics of her having plans better – for one thing you shouldn’t make a frontal attack and get her to logically change her mind – you’d have been better off just ignoring her other plans and continuing escalation and sleeping with her and then it’s like “oops! I guess you’ll be late to your friends!”. Even better, you could have found out about her logistics and evening plans early on in the date and worked backward from there to get her to your apartment in time to sleep with her before she meets her friends).

    As you get better, you’ll get better and more confident with the escalation. I used to hesitate to go in for a kiss – now playing with that anticipation is one of my favourite parts of any date (and I make very direct sexual remarks about having sexy legs etc in the first 5 minutes of meeting girls etc). But you need a certain level of frame and social calibration to pull that off – but based on your FRs you already have most of the social skills you need for that – just a question of actually doing it and building experience that way.

    Even after I started getting laid fairly consistently, I used to spend 2-3 hours on dates etc. And Sentient gave me some very good advice – god, it must have been 4 years ago now – about not worrying about the time and how much time I’ve spent with a girl and to just focus on the energy and sexual tension and attraction and if she’s sufficiently attracted, then to just go ahead and pull her and go for the lay even if it’s been less than an hour – that’s a much better bet than hanging in at drinks for 2+ hours and slowly letting the rush and energy drain away. It all depends on each girl and each date, but it’s a good rule of thumb – think less about the clock and more about whether you’ve pumped her attraction and buying temperature enough. That advice really helped me and my average date now ends in a lay in well under 2 hours. And sub 1 hour is not that uncommon (these are mostly girls I’ve met online on Tinder or other sites, who I am meeting in person for the first time).

  63. @Sentient @Calum you guys are like the big bros I never had 🙂 many plow reports to come with your guidance. Greatly appreciate the feedback. It seriously helps so much.

  64. Outis

    you guys are like the big bros I never had

    Just passing on what’s been passed on. Keep plugging away. Field is King!

    and make sure you finish your homework (Mystery etc.) in the gaps. Future is bright.

  65. @BDM

    “”But she was putting in a lot of resistance and was clearly trying to send the message across to me that intimacy and sex with her would occur on her terms. I lost interest after a while as she was trying hard to kill all spontaneity to it.

    She kept saying she had a rule that she goes to sleep within a certain time and that she had to leave soon. I lost all interest by then and then walked her out. We did not even eat the food as I thought, I would rather eat it alone while watching something than with this girl who I had now lost interest in.””

    A few things.

    She came over so she WAS ready to bang you. The fact she didn’t is because somewhere in the sequence of escalation you dropped the ball. Most likely it was during the COMFORT stage. She doesn’t trust you enough to bang you. From the way you described it she came over and you tried escalating and then didn’t bother escalating based on your own perception that she “She kept saying she had a rule that she goes to sleep at a certain time and had to leave soon.”

    This is a classic Men’s game technique: The False Time Constraint.

    There are many ways to overcome this starting with “making HER qualify herself to YOU”.

    By immediately ACCEPTING that sex wasn’t going to happen I can only imagine the awkwardness in that scenario.

    You have a full time GF and your game has become sloppy as a result. The fact this girl came over after the second date meant she was down to bang. The fact she didn’t is more a factor of your sloppy game than anything on her part.

    Not EVERY girl who comes over bangs me on that night, but I always bang every girl who comes over at some point.

    Go back through the evening and understand where you dropped the ball during your gaming of this woman who was clearly DTF.

    But from what you wrote, sounds like she put up her Anti-Slut Defense and you accepted that and nothing happened.

    Read up more on how to escalate, Agree and Amplify, Comfort, Last Minute Resistance, turn-aways.

    Sounds like having a stead GF has made you complacent and sloppy with women who don’t just throw themselves at you.

  66. does an ex wife qualify as pre selection, or is it a disqualifier? I have two ex wives BTW. I’m wondering whether to mention to a potential set. Considering I’m north of 50 years old it seems like an inevitable question, and early in the conversation.

  67. @Mike Land

    “”does an ex wife qualify as pre selection, or is it a disqualifier? I have two ex wives BTW. I’m wondering whether to mention to a potential set. Considering I’m north of 50 years old it seems like an inevitable question, and early in the conversation.””

    A few things:

    Having a STALKER qualifies as pre-selection. Having an ex ….myeh…having 2 ex wives makes you seem unstable and flakey. I’d hold off on bringing that up.
    Be mysterious… revealing too much about yourself too early is a sign of desperation and neediness. It’s irrelevant and sounds like you’re bringing a whole bunch of baggage when your goal in these interactions with women–especially those SOUTH OF 30…is to be fun, cool funky older dude…a little mysterious and dangerous not….paying alimony and forced to spend every weekend with his estranged kids.

    The only thing bringing up 2 ex wives would work on is another MILF with a ton of emotional baggage.

    Be aloof, mysterious…bring it up only when pushed and keep it short and simple. “Yes I was married…didn’t work out.” Change the subject.

    The 25 year old I’m seeing wants to see my wedding pictures! There’s really no boundaries with this generation raised on social media…I just say “no.” Change subject.

    Pre-selection would be how Mystery does it: “A stripper I was seeing once used to love waffles….” I’m paraphrasing here but you get the idea…

    Girl: “Whaaaaa? stripper???? Whaaaa?

    This obviously sparks her curiousity and pre-selection wondering “This guy dated a stripper???”

    Preselection.

    You: I have two ex-wives

    Girl: I have to wake up early for work tomorrow.

    Old guy with lots of problems.

  68. Mike Land

    “does an ex wife qualify as pre selection, or is it a disqualifier? “

    As with many game things, it’s all in the Frame and the Framing.

    Wrong: “Yeah, i tried marriage twice, got dumped after giving them everything”

    Right: “Married? I was married. Twice… I’m a bit of a handful I guess. [laser] Good girls though, they found quiet nice guys and are happy. They still come by once in a while… Oh well”

  69. Re; ex-wives and pre selection. Thanks for the replies guys. I am not yet a natural at weaving alpha frame into a reply. I’ve been asked if I’m divorced on many occasions with my standard reply being “we just grew apart”. I thought the appearance of being willing to marry being key. I see the better spin of being “unable to be tamed” as superior.

    I also did have a stalker at one point. She even had a boob job and regularly sent me photos. I’ll leverage that one.

    On a technical note. I haven’t figured out how to reply directly to others comments. Can someone spoon feed me on that.

  70. Mike land

    There is no direct reply.

    Weave this in:

    Her: so you’ve been married?

    You: yeah… twice… Bit in my defense they were crazy… They didn’t like me having girlfriends. Cray Cray…

  71. Mike Land

    on point… Just had lunch. sitting at a bar. Two girls come in. One pretty hot. 7.5, other a 6. 7.5 has a nice rock on and a wedding band. Both late 20’s. They sit next to me.

    Overheard… True recap…

    7.5 – OMG I ran into X last night [her ex BF]. he was so wasted. he came right up on our table and leaned way over [demonstrates] on it to me and is like “How the hell are you!”… lolololol titter titter titter. He was on a tinder date!

    6 – OMG lolzlolzolzol titter titter… He’s always on tinder dates!!!!

    7.5 – Did I ever tell you how we met… lolz OMG!… We met online. He texted me something one morning. So I sent him a text back. Didn;t hear from him for a few hours. Then he texted and said we should go out. I said yeah. Then I heard nothing back! So i went over my friend’s house. It was like 4 o’clock and I texted him “so we going to do something?” and he never responded!!!!

    6 – OMG…. LOlzlolzlozl I know right!!!!

    7.5 – So like at 7:30 he texts me and says what’s up what are we doing? I was like You need to apologize!!! He said he always said we would go out at night so he didn’t need to!!!! lolz lozlolz

    6 – Hahahahaha

    7.5 Anyhow so we went out to [someplace] and he was just so crazy and funny… He had no idea. I ended up making out with him later.

    Hahaha lolzlolzoz

    So take a note…

  72. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200121-why-promoted-women-are-more-likely-to-divorce

    wow, not one whit about personal responsibility for one’s own happiness and personal relationships; it’s all on others to adjust and accomodate…. men and society just can’t handle a strong woman and culpability is on everyone else

    generally speaking I see a lot of similar things with the “… I’m so awesome and everybody else can’t handle it …. ” posturing in which they try to portray themselves as somehow advanced/superior and therefore frustrated that nobody can keep up; it’s just a way to cope by implying any problems lie with others, not themselves

    and the one fucking question never asked/answered: what’s in the best interest of the children?

    a woman that has no problem being apart from her small children so she can have a career has made a choice in priorities; any man wanting to have a family with such a woman must realize that their children will not receive optimal maternal attention; such children will no doubt look back fondly on their childhood spent with the nanny and the two people paying for everything

    man or woman, it’s a fucked up thing when either parent chooses something else over their children; ‘babies all the way down’ or something like that

  73. “Society has accepted divorce more, and it might be a positive thing,” she argues. “If women get into unequal relationships with a spouse that will not support their career, divorce lets them continue their careers alone and possibly look for a new partner… It’s not necessarily ideal to stay with the same person your whole life.”

    There’s that ” society ” bullshit yet again.

  74. dr zipper
    >why-promoted-women-are-more-likely-to-divorce

    That article is almost like a textbook of hypergamy, just for a start.

    You know how a lot of girls like to keep their slogans around, except they call them “affirmations”?
    This one is very popular, and not just with the 20-somethings. There are 40-year olds with this on their mirror too.

    Marylin Monroe version:
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/cd/d6/ebcdd6f362cbe732784054ef8b3c97ca.jpg

    Nikki Minaj version
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3c/22/17/3c221702817f8e3595488f7c08e5cf50.jpg

    Plenty more if anyone cares to look. Entitlement is everywhere. Just laugh at it.

  75. @dr zipper
    That BBC article on Swedish divorce is one big example of hypergamy from start to finish. Plus it features serial polyandry, women’s preferred mating strategy. Thanks for posting it.

    The lesson to any man who is married to such a woman: learn Game and stay ahead of her. I have long suspected that one reason for the increase in the popularity of BD / SM is women being pushed up on the glass floor. Funny thing, this was explicated in “Married with Children” back in the 80’s and 90’s in the form of Marcy the bank executrix neighbor.

  76. Sentient and Having A Bad Day and Others

    Back after a long time. Marriage going pretty well. Not perfect, not where I want to be, but generally good and I feel like I know what I am doing. Financial issues resolved for now and I have a plan.

    I have a question about my kids. My son is 8, my daughter is 5. Fighting constantly. I know siblings fight and the younger one always wants to play with the older one who thinks the younger one is annoying but this is extreme. I had a much bigger age gap with mine so we never had this dynamic.

    I don’t have an issue with squabbling up to a point, but it is just constant. And while my daughter is far from perfect, she just loves her brother and wants to be around him. Sure, she loses her temper and hits him or lashes out but it’s mostly driven from his side. He’s entitled to not want to play with his annoying little sister, but he’s not entitled to completely lose control and scream about how much he hates his sister and doesn’t love her or push her around with his full strength or shout at her without provocation saying mean things. He’s entitled (sister aside) to be annoyed and bored when mom is window shopping at the mall. He’s not entitled to have a screaming crying meltdown outside the shop so that everyone walking past is giving us sympathetic looks.

    It all ties back to what I’ve posted before – his lack of self-discipline and emotional control. SJF told me once I needed to teach him “discipline without self-suppression”. I just don’t know how.

    IRL had some great advice along the lines of how I should take responsibility and spend more time with him and do an activity with him. I’m doing that and in general he’s a lot better when he’s with me. I understand the way he thinks much better than my wife and I seem to be a lot better at consistently keeping up the disciplinary pressure on him and sticking to the rules without losing my temper than she is – for example she agrees with me that we should limit iPad time to weekends, but if I’m not there she gives them the iPad on 1-2 weekdays almost every week – there’s always an excuse but if they have the iPad on weekdays 4 weeks in a row, we don’t really have a weekend-iPad-only policy for all practical purposes.

    But I still can’t get him to stop and think – to stop himself losing control. Another example: on average, he loses his lunch or his water at school 1-2 days a week. Just literally no idea what is going on around him.

    I just don’t know how to teach him.

    At least as far as his sister goes, once or twice when he’s been really upset and crying he has told me (not his mom) that he really does love his sister, even though she’s annoying but he feels like we are partial to her and that we love her more and treat her better than him. That couldn’t be farther from the truth but he feels it. Again, I just don’t know how to convince him otherwise.

    Any ideas?

  77. I want to add a couple of additional points.

    As IRL suggested, I started doing some BJJ training with my boy. Recently, I couldn’t take him for a class and he went with a friend from school. When they came back, the friend told me about what they did in class and what they learned, and my son only talked about clowning around with one of the other kids – the one who constantly acts up and jumps around and prevents everyone else from learning anything. My son is nowhere near as bad as that boy, but you get the idea. One of the instructors later told me that my son had been “awful” and “not listened to anyone” and “did whatever he wanted”. It’s partly because I wasn’t there and also the one instructor who my son respects and who keeps him in line wasn’t there that day and the rest just don’t know how to deal with him – but that’s his personality.

    Second, one of my best friends said some pretty harsh things about my son. This guy lives in a different city so while he’s known my son from birth, he’s only met him maybe a dozen or so times in 8 years although I talk to him all the time. He really likes my daughter but called my son “manipulative” and “bullying” and a “jock” etc and how I should work to make him a nicer person. Now some of this is my friend’s projection – my son is a charming jock who is good at sports, doesn’t read books and is good at making friends and is the kind of kid who walks into school and half a dozen kids say hello to him while he barely notices most of them because he is replaying some soccer move in his head or something – and that triggers my friend who was (like me) a high-IQ introvert nerd in high school. But that said he has a point and I can’t ignore him completely.

  78. Hey Marquis….

    You need to handle this situation because when he is 10 or 12 or older he is going to be uncontrollable. I’ve seen what a 6’2″ 220 15 YO looks like who freaks out like this. It’s dangerous, nevermind embarrassing.

    Disciplining kids is a high conflict area in LTR’s, especially in the daze of MOm’s wanting approval all the time. I suspect you’ve not done the spanking when he was younger.

    Back in the old days, Mom was a very good enforcer of “her rules” however vague and capricious those may have been. The “wooden spoon” or a hair brush or whatever other object that was handy was swiftly put to use…. And the worst, reserved for in public… the Pinch. Ow!!!!!!! All so effective Dad never really needed to get involved.

    But today Mom want’s all that lurvvvvv she probably feels she never got, and to be her kids BFF’s and all in their lives… As they turn out perfect and never have to deal with any consequences…

    I understand the way he thinks much better than my wife and I seem to be a lot better at consistently keeping up the disciplinary pressure on him and sticking to the rules without losing my temper than she is – for example she agrees with me that we should limit iPad time to weekends, but if I’m not there she gives them the iPad on 1-2 weekdays almost every week – there’s always an excuse but if they have the iPad on weekdays 4 weeks in a row, we don’t really have a weekend-iPad-only policy for all practical purposes.

    So you get this stuff^^^ Moody, EMO and hormonally infused random “discipline”. Remember she is just the oldest teenager in the house. It’s up tp you to get control of her, and of your family. Burden baby.

    Most training involves rewarding good behavior and punishing bad behavior. Find things he loves, and take them away. Find things he hates, and make him do them.

    I had 4 daughters, so hard discipline was maybe once or twice in their life, early on, A spank. My son is among the youngest, so this wasn’t an issue. He was trained early no hands on little sister. Because I trained him by grabbing him, punishing, maybe a spank. You touch her I touch you system. Was never a big thing at all.

    But really, don’t let this slip because in a few years he will be large and can physically dominate his mom, and will. She is not aware of how big and strong and willing to use it he is going to be.

    So don’t reason with him or try and logic him… He needs cause and effect tied to punishment/reward. Consistently.

    Good luck

  79. Marquis

    Sounds like your friend thinks your son should be turned Beta. It also sounds like your wife is undermining the boundaries you’ve set for the children. That needs addressing.

    Introversion is a learned behavior mostly installed by parents and society at large as a control mechanism. A shy quiet child/adult is easier to control and probably not a free thinker.

    At 15 years old my daughter ran away from my controlling, manipulative, attention seeking who micro managed my daughters life. My daughter became rebellious, skipped school, drugs, sex and was well on her way to becoming a burden to society. After she ran away I found her, moved her in and turned her around. I had been trying to get custody for years but was blocked by my ex and the courts. After she ran away my ex abdicated (but still accepted child support for another year) My daughter is now a lovely, responsible adult (albeit a leftie liberal, but only because I got red pilled after raising her).

    Instead of more micro management (which is every parents inclination) I taught my daughter decision making and consequences of bad decisions. This means letting your kids fail, and reap the consequences. My greatest fear was teen pregnancy, which thankfully didn’t happen.

    I followed the recipes in this book “Teen Proofing” by John Rosemond and swear by this method.

    A second book I found invaluable was “Between Parent and Child” by Haim Gnott. This will be more directly applicable to your younger children. It has the substantial side benefit of being directly applicable to dealing with your wife. Women’s brains work just like children’s, on an instinctual/emotional level. I use the methods from there mostly on women now.

  80. +100 to what sentient said.

    … I wasn’t going to be the first one to reply 😁 because people can be overly touchy about their kids and usually don’t want to hear any truth.

    Children don’t have self discipline. I’ve never understood that way of thinking. Children must be taught everything starting from birth. They don’t have ” rights ” or any of that shit. That comes later on.

    I council young first time parents , especially those with sons, that by teaching and demanding discipline you will probably save the boys life, or at a minimum avoid run ins with law enforcement. But many of those parents aren’t disciplined themselves and will correct me with all that ” things are different now ” bullshit or the ” I never spank my kids “.

    Well, somebody is going to spank them hard if they are wildly undisciplined out in the world. It’s just a matter of time.

    Imo a patent has the first 5 years of a child’s life to set the overall franework. You don’t negotiate, you aren’t their friend, you are the absolute monarch. Like sentient I have daughters and they have been spanked very early on in life but not after that because there was no need. Parenting is much easier when you don’t bargain and argue with a child.

    A child is not an adult. Fuck all that ” personality ” bullshit talk. I’ll guide that personality to keep you out of the police station or grave or prison. No excuses acceptable.

  81. Sentient And Mike Land And Blaximus

    Thank you for this.

    Sentient, there have been so many incidents that I forgot to mention that a couple of weeks ago during one of the meltdown freakouts he actually did shove his mom quite hard. She wasn’t hurt but she was a bit freaked out for the first time herself. He’s still only 8, but she registered that he is getting stronger and CAN do damage.

    When I came home and heard about it, I did something I’ve never done before. I took him into another room and looked him dead in the eye and said matter of factly “This is between you and me now. I’m not going to tell your mom about this conversation. There is never a reason to push or physically attack your mom. Never. No matter how mean or unreasonable or unfair she is. Never. If you EVER hit my wife again, I WILL hit you myself, and I will not hold back like I do when we spar. You will HURT. This is never acceptable. Are we clear?”. (Of course I will still hold back – I’m not going all out on an 8 year old, but I will certainly go a lot harder than I have before, enough to make it hurt and for him to get the message). He looked subdued but he said he understood, and we’ve left it there for now.

    Mike Land, thank you for the book recommendations. How did you manage to turn your daughter around? Was it similar to what Sentient is talking about? Consistently applying operant conditioning? In particular, how did you teach “decision making and consequences of bad decisions”? Because that is what my son struggles with most – he simply won’t think about “consequences” before doing anything. I will check out Rosemond and Gnott

    Sentient and Blaximus, thank you for the reality check reminder. I think I’ve been too relaxed despite seeing some of these behaviours build for the last couple of years (some of you may remember when I posted about him smashing two different babysitters’ phones in fits of rage when he was around 6) because I didn’t want to stifle him but clearly I’ve gone too far in the “relaxed” direction. I’m a lot better than mom, but I still haven’t been as consistent with reward/punishment as I need to be, or as clear about the consequences of each action (good/bad). Also, it’s too easy for him to draw me into a DISCUSSION, instead of simply being action by him which leads to a consequence. That is to say it is the consequence for his actions which teach him, not the discussion and explanation about it, which is secondary. I’m much less susceptible to this than his mother or grandparents but he sucks me in to discussion too sometimes. Even if I tell him to do something (not a punishment), it’s easy for him to sidetrack it by asking “Why?” instead of doing it. I’ve told him before that he has to follow instructions first and questions will be answered later. But again, not followed it consistently enough.

    Oh and I’ve been guilty of the negotiation thing too. Not so much that I’ve conceded ground in what I tell him to do but more that I’ve been willing to make a “deal” of “if you do x, you get y”. I don’t think that’s always a bad thing, but I’ve probably done it too much.

    So the prescription is: more consistency, clear rewards and punishments for each action (I will make a list and put it up on the wall) and minimise discussion and questions. I will also continue and increase spending time with him – especially 1 on 1 time with me, without his sister, which he absolutely craves and constantly asks for (I don’t do much of it now because I feel bad for excluding my daughter and because my wife complains that she has the kids most of the time and if I’m going to take one, then I should take both and give her a real break), which might help with his insistence that his sister gets more privileges and is treated better than him.

  82. Marquis

    Keep in mind children operate just like women, instinct, then emotion. I’m very new to this party but am going to paraphrase from RM.

    Words (threats) are useless, actions speak. IMO your threat session with your son will pass from one ear to the other. Action in some form of discipline is required.

    On to teaching consequences. Just as RM can’t be distilled into a sound bite, neither can “Teen Proofing ” (TP). If you ever been micromanaged by an overbearing boss you will appreciate the approach of TP. Negotiating rewards for good behavior and consequences for bad behavior with agreed upon, prescribed consequences are the key. Sticking to the agreed upon contract is the hard part from the parents perspective and will require absolute, resolute buy in from both parents.

    TP is the method I used to turn my daughter around.

    “Between Parent and Child” (BPAC) is the form of communication I use. Some forms of communication are damaging to sensitive, emotional ears. We’ve all been in a situation where something you said could be taken two ways, good or bad. You intended good but it was perceived as bad.

    I have not mentioned dealing with manipulation which is another branch of this tree but I’m hitting TLDR.

    read the books if you want the tools

  83. I’m a twitter lurker, no responses to any tweets but follow Rollo and others from the “manisphere” as well as politics etc. I stay silent to keep a “clean” social media profile should perspective clients search me.

    I feel somewhat safer here on this remote space.

    Rollo posted a pic of a bikini beauty today with a caption “how would you open”.

    I’m stumped but surely could use opinions from more experienced, game savvy men. This seems like a good space to discuss.

    https://twitter.com/OldRowRadChicks/status/1223320308154847232/photo/1

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