Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

15,703 comments on “Field Reports

  1. @Culum

    “I’m now getting dangerously close to the “repeating myself” line because your mental block won’t let you process the points I’m making”

    Repeating yourself or repeating the talking points YaReally made (which I’ve already read) 3 years ago? #hmmm

    “I know you are capable of figuring the point out. It’s not that hard – you just need to take HABD’s logic and project it forward a little bit”

    No I’m actually retarded. Your gonna have to spell this one out for me, chief.

    “in makes her think in that direction and start to categorize you that way”.

    No it doesn’t. She just think “oooh that guys hot, let me throw him some IOIs so he notices and approaches me”

    http://i.imgur.com/SE2KeCb.gif

    Now after she talks with you is where she will categorize you. Guy who Just Gets It ™ /secret society member, guy is a chode (and therefore lose attraction), or guy who would make a good boyfriend (“I’m not that kind of girl who sleeps with someone on the first night”).

    ““being sexy” isn’t the same as “being goodlooking” – this is the core of the disagreement.”

    No I agree.

    if you’re suggesting that being sexy by itself is enough and you don’t need to care about a girl’s friends if you’re hawt enough, that’s not true. ”

    Disarming /= not caring.

    If they come in set, then I’ll briefly be chill with them. So they can see that I’m normal (lol). Then they’ll turn to their friend and ask them if they are ok? If you’ve been running good game, she’ll say yeah. Then they’ll fuck off. Mother hens concern is that their friend is happy. And with a guy who is socially acceptable to fuck (they’ll drag her away when they see an ugly dude spiking their drunk friend’s BT because they know she’s in a vulnerable state and suspetible to making a mistake).

    “Note that you don’t need a pre-existing IOI or Approach Invite to start the process so it’s irrelevant who gives (or doesn’t give) the ugly guy a free IOI.”

    No you don’t need an IOI to start the process. But it does make it obvious that, that particular girl who you plan on approaching (Girl A) already views you above her looks threshold before you approach her. So if your trying to establish preselection with the girl you’re really interested, (Girl B). Then you can time it right. I have a field report, where I was talking to the girl who I ended up with, then the guy she was talking to, took her back. As soon as that happened, I turned to my left and opened the girls beside me. And I knew they would be receptive because they had been hovering beside me. I talked to them long enough, so that when I noticed my original girl turn back to face me, she would see the preselection. Then I switched back to her and lead her away from the guy.

    If you approach Girl A and she turns out to be a NO girl. Girl B just saw you get brutally rejected. Giving you negative social proof.

    “The fact that you think the initial IOI is required is at the heart of your mental block”

    You don’t need an IOI. You need to be above her looks threshold (which may or may not result in her throwing you IOIs prior to you approaching her). Which looksmaxxing helps with (there’s a good chance, some girls will still think your ugly tho. No one said life is fair).

    “basically you need to back off, build social proof and get her curious about you and wondering if she made a mistake about you, and (done right) she will start to give you IOIs and proximity and you can reopen her successfully.”
    Yet no one here (or anywhere else) has reportedly banged a girl that rejected them immediately following a negative viseral NO reaction.

    Which is why this debate is still going on.

    “If you see the videos of them leaving the club, you’ll ask for the videos of them getting into an Uber. If you see that, you won’t believe it unless you a video of P-in-V”

    I don’t believe Uber pulls. Pulling is not closing. To the guys who actually fuck girls via cold approach, this observation should be pretty obvious.

    “As for me personally, the infields of Tyler pulling girls out of clubs and leaving with them is good enough to accept he slept with those girls”

    LMAOOOOOOO

    Sorry. Too funny not laugh.

    “Are we talking about the same person?”
    Ya.

    “I’ve met Derek (I attended one of his Free Tours years ago and had a brief chat with him afterwards).”

    Few years ago? I just saw him two weeks ago. You already know he’s tall. But I can tell you, he’s definitely not scrawny.

    “I’m struggling to imagine that guy dancing at all, much less on a table.”

    He wasn’t dancing like a retard. Just moving side to side with the blonde he was talking to (who may have been his girlfriend/girl in his social circle. Who knows lol). And I said he was dancing near his bottle service table. Not on top of a table lmao 😂

  2. @Palmasailor

    Son didn’t show but thanks for asking.

    well, that’s too bad… but he really didn’t have much time to process before he hit that decision point…

    at least the seed is planted now… just pick something that you need HIS help with and try again…

    good luck!

  3. Do Looks Matter debate doesn’t matter… lol

    Because ultimately it boils down to “don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better”.

    As per Chase’s stories in this article: https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-much-do-looks-matter-romantic-success
    TL;DR version but it misses the story telling: https://www.girlschase.com/dating/do-looks-matter-to-women-science-says-no

    @Sentient

    From the first link:

    In the book Outliers, Malcolm Gladwell cites the curious case of hockey players born in January, February, and March far outnumbering all other hockey players in the Canadian Hockey League, while players born in October, November, and December are very underrepresented in the CHL. Why is this so? Are people born in the first three months of the year simply born more gifted at hockey?

    As it turns out, the way the cutoff dates are established for Canadian schools, students born in the first three months of the year are always the oldest, biggest kids in each grade, and thus have a slight size advantage in hockey early on. Due to this early size advantage, they do a bit better at hockey, and thus have more early success, get put on the better teams, get more practice, and learn faster, get more time working on hockey, and build more and more on that early success.

    That small early advantage has a snowball effect that gets them more and more time to practice and improve at hockey. By the time they’re ready to go pro, men born in the first three months of the year have simply had tremendously more experience playing hockey than men born in the last three months of the year, and thus make up a far larger portion of the men who actually make it into the CHL.

    I believe that good looks can be a bit like this.

    The better looking you are, the more early advantages you have. The more likely you are to get somewhat warmer receptions from women early on; the more likely you are to have sex sooner; and the more likely you are to get more dates.

    These successes under your belt, you then build on this, and get more, and more, and more.

    The “naturals” I know who do the best with women aren’t just pretty faces and nothing else. They’re handsome, yes… but they also have far better game than any pick up artist I’ve ever met.

    The reason why? More time in field.

    More experience.

    More practice, to hone their vibes, get more comfortable, more smooth… more natural.

    To develop sharper wits.

    To become more unshakeable, and more undaunted.

    To experience more crazy wild unusual scenarios with women, and be more prepared for anything.

    Their looks do give them a bit of an edge, yes.

    But what’s really doing it is the snowball effect.

    If you want to look at a difference between you and a good-looking guy you know who’s getting crazy results with women, don’t spend so much time focused on his looks.

    Instead, focus on his experience. I can almost guarantee you’ll find all your answers there.

    @HABD

    Same link:

    When I moved to Southern California in mid 2007, the women were more attractive than what I was used to, and I struggled for a little while to get up to speed. The first thing I did was throw out the point scale. The next thing I did was to train myself to stop consciously assessing women’s beauty AT ALL, and to simply just go for whatever girls I found most attractive.

    The transition was gradual and largely unnoticed, and I hadn’t even noticed this working until one day, at a social event in early 2009, after I’d been talking to this girl who really liked me for a little while, I suddenly realized, holy crap, this girl is absolutely breathtakingly GORGEOUS! I hadn’t even noticed it. She had a perfect face, a perfect body, the slinkiest, most seductive bright red dress you’ve ever seen, and was probably the most beautiful woman I’d seen in months, and I was going out meeting loads of new women regularly.

    I hadn’t even realized it.

    And the moment I did realize it, I started valuing her more highly, I started treating her a little differently, and all the attention and attraction she’d been giving to me before dried up… and she moved on to go talk with (and flirt with) someone else.
    Someone, most likely, who was more immune to her beauty than I, at the time, was.

  4. @Culum

    So this is an Irish all-woman group I’ve been watching on Youtube a lot over the last few days – I stumbled on them by accident and really liked them so have had them on a lot:

    I’ve been thinking about why I have such a strong visceral reaction to them. I mean sure, they’re attractive enough (and generally I go for this “type” in terms of looks) but they’re not amazingly hot or anything. The music is pleasant enough, but again, nothing amazing.

    But I have a powerful visceral attraction to them when watching this and I can only conclude that it’s because they’re just more feminine than most of the women I see (in real life or Youtube or wherever) .

    The “anti-Miley Cyrus” I guess.

    it’s bc they are happy/joyful and seem to appreciate/have gratitude for the positive attention from ‘the audience’ (ie ‘men’) for performing… (their frame is in the audience)…

    That femininity – sort of happy positive feminine energy – it’s like kryptonite. It’s also incredibly rare to see when I’m out in the field – why are more women not like this?

    see that other clip from ‘pitch perfect’ you put up…lol… that’s the modern socially conditioned ‘goal’ for girls… that whole clip was about girls performing for themselves/other girls… with the ‘men’ in the background being ‘allowed’ to ‘appreciate’ them…lol… totally in the girls’ frame… this reminded me the most of a ‘celibacy club’ dynamic…lol

    I’ve only met a bare handful of women that have had this in all my time going out and dating (it’s not about looks, although obviously it’s better if they’re hotter). I’ve met lots of girls way hotter than these women – but they didn’t have this.

    bc it’s not ‘socially acceptable’ for ‘feminists’ to want men’s approval… and not to ‘appreciate it’ if it’s offered…

    The girl HABD calls my “Epiphany Girl” had it, a few years ago. A few more, but hardly any. It’s to the point where I even remember random 5 minute chats in clubs with girls that had it – it’s that powerful.

    Obviously I don’t know what they are really like in their private lives etc – I’m only talking here about my reaction to what I see presented on screen here..

    based on her micro-expressions, i think ‘snow white’ would be a handful…lol…

    But there’s something in the “subcomms” there that I really respond strongly to, and I’m struggling to pin it down.

    see above… it’s basically submission… appreciating the approval of the group (including/especially the men) for their actions taken for the benefit of the group/someone else… and not just for their mere existence… (kind of like in a ‘traditional marriage’ where the wife is/allows herself to be happy when/if her husband compliments her on a well prepared meal)… whereas the pitch perfect girls were all about the ‘we don’t need anything from you’ attitude…

    By analogy – I’m assuming this is the equivalent of what women feel when they encounter authentic masculinity (as opposed to a guy who is good looking but not necessarily masculine) and the reaction is equally powerful. But also very rare to find.

    So we were talking about Grant Cardone and his daughters a few days ago – if I’m putting the pieces together correctly now, what Sentient and IRL etc were saying is that the problem with what he’s doing isn’t that the message is wrong, it’s that teaching them to do what they do on that video, doesn’t lead to THIS. It leads them to be more like boys. But then that begs the question, how do you teach girls to be like this?

    it’s tough in modern FI/BP society… since girls are part of the ‘herd’… and they are exposed to all the FI bs… overall, i think you have to create a situ where girls are allowed/expected to appreciate/have gratitude in their lives in general… then that concept can apply to their relationships at some point…

    good luck!

  5. @j

    lol… dude, you crack me up…

    it is kind of nice, though…lol… it’s kind of like watching a kid who has already lost the belief in the easter bunny and the tooth fairy hanging on to that last little belief in the magic of santa claus…lol

    i mentioned this in a comment to @walawala but seeing behind the curtain (being RP)… all the f*kin’ time!… really is tiring (it’s probably worse for me… being a ‘sperg and all)… and it put me off ‘girls’ for a while (i had some residual anger phase flair up…lol)… i’ve got it back, but it’s really not the same as when i really ‘knew’ i had the secret (that brand new RP ‘super power’) to santa claus all figured out…lol…

    so, props on going out and working your way through this sh*t… it really isn’t easy… and if you’re happy, i’m happy for you!…

    buuut…lol… for pedantic thoroughness (and i’m nothing if not pedantic…lol)… and to possibly save some noobie RPers from believing mistaken concepts which end up wasting their time… i have to comment on some of the stuff you posted…

    not trying to mean, bro!…lol… but not kidding… <3…

    on this link…

    https://www.girlschase.com/content/social-acceptability-and-sexual-acceptability-dating

    the very first photo caption reads like a white knight ad…lol… this is totally in chasing (in her frame) mode…

    The more acceptable a match a woman thinks you are for her, the better your odds with her are. Here’s what you must do for her to mark you ‘acceptable’.

    i didn’t read through the rest of this site bc that quote put me off…lol… (ok, that isn’t really true… the whole site is like that…lol)…

    i know he is selling a ‘program’… which has to be ‘purplish’ in order to sell more… but come on, dude… really?…lol

    i couldn’t tell but is he selling armor polish, too?…lol… bc you know that the EXTRA SHINY ™ is the ONLY stuff that REALLY works…lol… so don’t get any of that other stuff, it HAS to be the EXTRA SHINY ™ … THAT’s the good stuff… GUARANTEED to work…lol… her friends will LOVE IT!!!!…lol

    on this link…

    http://blog.aaronsleazy.com/index.php/2019/08/11/the-ultimate-post-on-male-height/

    all he is doing is regurgitating FI/social conditioning ideas…lol… and THEN he goes on to tell you that if you ARE short… OR tooo tall (lol)… which is apparently ALSO a problem…lol… he can ‘help you’… with his paid consultations/books…lol

    on ‘looksmaxxing’…

    lol… dude, you realize that ALL that stuff does is to increase your overall confidence… which girls pick up on…right?… and to let the FI help you along in your seductions… by conforming to the social standards of who she ‘should’ want… we covered this in all those other threads…lol

    also, seems like you are putting in a LOT of effort/time/money to ‘earn her’…lol… that’s the definition of beta…

    on that whole posture comment…

    blog. aaronsleazy. com/index.php/2017/01/05/dont-bother-getting-body-fat-down-to-sub-10-levels/

    When a woman thinks of a 6’0 guy, about 99% of the ones she’s met had bad posture. That’s her idea of how tall 6’0 is. A 5’10 with good posture is just as tall standing in the same room as the 6’0 guy who has bad posture.”

    that wasn’t what the link actually said…lol… the link comment said “6’10 guy”…

    that’s some bad posture…lol… losing a full 12 inches in actual height?…lol… or was he talking metaphorically about confidence?… i think he was…lol

    some quick points on your ‘debunking’…lol

    “so, looks matter to the extent that you can use that (social ‘conformity’ = a guy she is ‘supposed to like’) to get some initial attraction/IOIs”

    yeah. Or you look like someone she’s hooked up with in the past.

    you mean all those girls (some of which were daughters being brought to him by their mothers…lol) that that trollish-looking dude with the n=6000, had already banged a different trollish-looking dude?…lol… or those mothers were bringing their daughters bc he had sooo much ‘social conformity’ that he really didn’t look like a troll?…lol

    “…but that initial attraction isn’t going to carry the bang…lol”

    Mostly agree. Sometimes girls will do all the work lol.

    this is mostly just letting the FI do the work for you…lol… not bad, just not your own MPoO…

    re the whole beta orbiter/provider being harder to show your AF stud chops… it isn’t BS… and not just bc i say it…lol… it’s just logic…

    we’ve covered this before… and if you don’t need to understand it, that’s cool…

    but girls have their default algo as trying to convert male ‘contacts’ into beta providers (orbiters)… and one way (obviously not the only way…lol) to do that is to f*k them into orbit…

    an ugly trollish dude triggers shit tests faster than a good looking (socially conforming) dude… bc, like you say, she is not getting any social proof from having a ‘non-conforming’ guy associate with her… so, if that dude holds his frame after that immediate volley of testing… and passes… that’s faster… by definition… and puts him into her AF algo… BC she is not getting any social proof (or other beta ‘provisioning’) from him…

    whereas, like you say, a ‘conforming’ guy will get a pass right away… bc she gets the social proof… from you as a conforming guy… but THAT doesn’t get you into her AF algo… only passing ‘fitness tests’ (which we short-hand as ‘sht tests… and which she throws at you…) does that… i’m kind of surprised you don’t understand THAT idea…lol… it’s totally possible to get into beta provider/orbiter sex on a SNL… girls LIKE to fk… it’s fun and pleasurable… just like for us…lol…

    maybe you really haven’t been getting ‘desire sex’?…(don’t really know… don’t really care… (and no i didn’t watch that video…lol) bc you are obviously satisfied with what you are getting…lol)… but i gotta tell you, back in “the before time” when i had only had the ‘once a month/quarter/year married obligation’ sex…i still thought the sex was pretty great…lol… but that was back before i figured out the difference… by actually having ‘desire sex’… lol

    Yeah he’ll pass her initial shit test. And that’ll get a “heh” from here. Then she’ll proceed to give him nothing else to work with.

    this is just a standard ‘hot girl’ go to fitness test… it lets the full weight of social expectations (the concept that she is too hot for YOU) do the actual testing of your frame… but you generally don’t get THAT if you are pinging her beta provider/orbiter algo… if you are in her BB algo, you get slotted into the ‘this guy is giving me social proof so i’ll keep him around for a while’ position…

    Until one of her friends sees him not going away,

    the assumption here is that he is also not passing those tests… if he was passing, he would be fine…

    then steps in to tell him to fuck off.

    annnnd, does he handle THAT test?…or not?…lol

    one final quick point…

    https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/616535488535490560/6xPYplId_400x400.jpg

    this is totally in her frame… she is thrilled to have that beta validation…lol… look how he is ‘leaning in’…lol… and she would probably f*k the guy too…

    good luck!

  6. “The “naturals” I know who do the best with women aren’t just pretty faces and nothing else. They’re handsome”

    Ok so they’ve been above the Looks Threshold for their entire life. That affords them the luxury to “not worry about their looks” (they’re just delusional that it doesn’t have an impact). Whether these guys close girls or not will always come down to game.

    Which is demonstrating, but not limited to:

    “Do you “get” women, and
    Do you know what to do with them?”

    Since we’re sharing articles by Chase, how about one more:

    https://www.girlschase.com/content/girls-who-want-sleep-you-usually-know-it-right-away

    “If a woman is going to go to bed with you, she knows it the moment you approach. You still will end up doing things like:

    Spending time with her
    Connecting enough with her
    Making her laugh
    Showing her whom you are
    Displaying valuable things about yourself
    Communicating to her she ‘qualifies’ for you.

    However, these actions serve the purpose of moving things along and getting her comfortable enough to let her guard down with you. They are not to ‘make her want you’… not really.

    Because she already wanted you. You’re just trying to help her feel like it’s okay to give into what she wants”.

  7. “she knows it the moment you approach. “

    LOL. I love how these kind of bald assertions (which are contrary to what girls actually say) become fact.

  8. Of course if your “game” amounts to IOI hunting and screening, you would come up with shit like this… lolz

  9. @HABD

    “this is totally in chasing (in her frame) mode”

    lol. Alright man. but don’t go complaining about why she feels uncomfortable flirting with you in public with people she knows (hot girls always being in groups and all) when you look like this:

    https://i.warosu.org/data/fa/img/0079/76/1395451358917.jpg

    “THEN he goes on to tell you that if you ARE short… OR tooo tall (lol)… which is apparently ALSO a problem…lol… he can ‘help you’… with his paid consultations/books…lol”

    The solution for both guys who are too short and too tall are in the article free of charge. Don’t mislead people.

    “and to let the FI help you along in your seductions… by conforming to the social standards of who she ‘should’ want”

    “this is mostly just letting the FI do the work for you…lol”

    https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/exploit

    “whereas, like you say, a ‘conforming’ guy will get a pass right away… bc she gets the social proof… from you as a conforming guy… but THAT doesn’t get you into her AF algo… only passing ‘fitness tests’ (which we short-hand as ‘sht tests… and which she throws at you…) does that…”

    Social proof = socially acceptable to fuck.

    And no passing shit test isn’t the only way to get into her (who’s frame are you in lol) AF algo. You can set sexual frames which is my go-to method.

    “but that was back before i figured out the difference… by actually having ‘desire sex’… lol”

    lol. Feels good, right? 😛

  10. Most guys won’t ever have desire sex and have no idea what it even is. They mistake ” horny ” desire sex.

    I’d bet 10’000 $ it’s rare to get it out of a club with somebody you just met. You.can put your pee pee inside of the., But that’s not desire sex, mainly because you had to physically go out to get.

    Your doing the chasing. Cancels out the ” desire ” part And replaces it with ” want “.

    Want is amazing and good enough for the masses.

    But words still have meaning.

  11. “don’t go complaining about why she feels uncomfortable flirting with you in public with people she knows (hot girls always being in groups and all) when you look like this:”

    Is that RSDLuke?

    Interesting, thinking about things I never see… One is PUA instructors that are good looking talking about guys needing to get better looking…

    Hmmm.

  12. “Your doing the chasing.”

    Impact with high-order detonation yields:

    “Lmao shut up old man.”

    Said only by the unfuckable.

    No one chasing that hard is getting laid. No one throwing good money after bad to get laid is getting laid. No one that expectant of another’s respect is getting laid. No one writing about getting laid exploits is getting laid.

    j is not getting laid.

    It just doesn’t happen to dudes with zero confidence in themselves. 6’s won’t fuck that.

    What does j have to hide? Everything. His meaning depends on it.

    I hope he doesn’t do anything rash. Oh well, have a great evening.

  13. J

    Exactly my point. You and your Lookism.com bros would be fitting Alex for leg extensions and chin implants.

  14. “Is that RSDLuke?”

    actually lol’d

    @Blax

    There’s a lot to that. Nothing like a girl showing up unannounced at 2 in the morning dying to fuck you with no strings attached. I think it says a lot if you think a girl is really into you, but she would only be willing to fuck you if you go out of your way to meet up at her place, and would not go out of her way to accommodate you and drive herself to YOUR place.

    I suppose I’m just lazy. My preferred way for both business and girls is for them to come to my place of their own accord. One of my best friends always said he wanted people to just come to his house and give him money, and that’s how his business works. I strive for the same.

    This point should not be overlooked.

    I have only been with 4 girls, but in every single case, they went out of their way to accommodate me and come here. One of them flew across the country three times to see me. With the other two it was not as dramatic, but in every case they came to me nonetheless. The other one was at a party and within a couple hours she was blowing me on the couch at my friend’s house, so that’s a different case I guess, but still felt like no effort on my part aside from running Game.

    Now that I think about it, I wouldn’t want it any other way. Again…maybe I’m just lazy. But I don’t like the idea of going out of my way to get sex. There’s nothing wrong with it, I guess, but in my experience, my PREFERENCE is to be 100% accommodated: I stay put right where I am and if a girl wants to fuck me, then she has to come here. It’s also a litmus test for genuine interest.

    My personal preference would be to go out, run Game, do whatever, and run it tightly enough so they’d be willing to go out of THEIR way to come here and fuck me, not the other way around. Running Game is one thing. Going out of your way to drive/fly/swim to pussy is another.

    I’ve known a lot of guys willing to drive 2 or 3+ hours just to get some pussy. Or fly across the country. That doesn’t sound like a great time to me, no matter how “awesome” the sex is. Not saying anyone here is doing that.

    But definitely something to think about. I would say a girl that isn’t willing to go out of her way to accommodate you and your preferences isn’t 100% into you. If a girl wanted me to come over and fuck her, but was weird/unwilling if I suggested her coming to my place, I’d be pretty skeptical of how into me she actually was. Huge turn off.

    Every friend I’ve had that went out of his way to get pussy ended up in a disaster with the chick. Every single one. Every single time. It isn’t a coincidence.

    Or we could just pretend Frame doesn’t exist. To each their own.

    One of my friends said he felt like a living dildo with some chicks at university. And he didn’t like it. P in V =\= Desire. Being a living dildo might sound like fun until you realize that it actually means completely surrendering your Frame and dignity just for some pussy. A lot of girls are just spoiled brats and the only thing that will counteract that tendency is triggering Hypergamy, genuinely.

    I’ve heard many a story of girls telling guys “fuck me right now, I want you to fuck me hard right now,” and the feeling I had after the story was over was that it was not even remotely “desire sex.” Even choking and slapping and pounding the shit out of a girl and making her cum from it doesn’t mean it’s “desire sex.” Dildo machines can make girls cum too.

    So many Frame issues with that thinking too. “I made x amount of girls cum, therefore I am __________.” Ugh.

    Quality over quantity. I can already hear the cries of “yeah dude but you have like almost no N count, what would you know?”

    Desire sex teaches a man a lot. I will stand by the argument that repeated Desire Sex, over and over again, can help build a man’s Frame. Simply sticking your P in a V, Frame does not make, even if it’s 1,000 times.

    I’ll end with this: it’s a lot like working out. Guess who knows how much effort you’re putting in? You. And only you. Simply observing from the outside, you can never tell what’s going on with someone internally.

    My reference experiences are of being 100% accommodated with girls going out of THEIR way to get to ME. And that’s how I like it. You don’t have to experience that too many times before realizing how awesome it is and how you would not prefer it any other way.

  15. I’ve heard many a story of girls telling guys “fuck me right now, I want you to fuck me hard right now,” and the feeling I had after the story was over was that it was not even remotely “desire sex.”

    I pulled a friend out of a situation where a girl was saying exactly those words; she thought nobody else could hear her. Why?

    Because I happened to know she was a babymomma with at least two kids by two different men, and she was probably ovulating. For sure she was cleaned up real good…and she was extremely hot to trot.

    tl;dr
    Not all “desire sex” is worth having.

  16. “Most guys won’t ever have desire sex and have no idea what it even is.”

    There’s desire sex (her getting so turned on by you, and you getting so turned on by her, that both of ya’ll want to get down and dirty) and obligation (“something by which a person is bound or obliged to do certain things, and which arises out of a sense of duty or results from custom”) sex.

    Pulling a girl in a single night will not lead to obligation duty sex. She has zero obligation to come home with me, or invite me over to fuck for more.

    “that’s not desire sex, mainly because you had to physically go out to get.”

    Go out -> seduce girl -> desire sex. But hey man, I could just download Tinder on my phone, swipe right, and invite a bitch over. You telling me that’ll lead to me getting desire sex instead cause I didn’t “physically go out to get it”?

    Just my guy Blax being Blax.

    @eh

    “No one chasing that hard is getting laid”.

    Going out on weekends is chasing hard?

    “No one writing about getting laid exploits is getting laid.”

    Ego tbh

    “j is not getting laid.”

    lol no not this weekend. Had to stay in.

    “What does j have to hide? Everything. His meaning depends on it.”

    not trying get doxxed bruh…

    @Sentient

    “Exactly my point. You and your Lookism.com bros would be fitting Alex for leg extensions and chin implants.”

    The fuck are you talking about? Lmao.

    Where do you see me talking about surgery (“well….uhm…what about that one time”) in the guide I wrote at the top of the page?

    You mad cause you can’t fuck 40 year olds or something, playa? Or this have to do with my making fun of WIA’s idea of 10s? Come on playa, spit it out.

    Dang. The “looks matters” denial in here is STRONG. for real tho.

  17. “not trying get doxxed bruh…”

    What does j have to lose?

    All credibility as a playa.

    Fraud alert!

    Doxxed. Lol. Nothing to dox.

  18. “What does j have to lose?

    All credibility as a playa.”

    lol. Aight. If @palma (he’s a credible source, right?) wants to hop over the pond to come chase (“LOLOLOLOL who’s frame are you in???”) women with me, then I’ll meet up. Toss me you’re email, palma. We’ll set it up.

  19. “She has zero obligation to come [down into my parents basement] with me.”

    What a canard. Had to stay in….man…what a tool. .

    Anyhow keep it up you little rascal! (Insert head rubbing.)

  20. J

    “Pulling a girl in a single night will not lead to obligation duty sex. ”

    Lolz

    You sure about that? You ever read a FRA? They nearly all have this in common – she felt obligated or pressured… If she remained concious.

    I get the misunderstanding about looks from your guys though. They don’t know any actually good looking guys IRL.

    Alex is a boyish guy. Girls would say he is cute. None would say he is OMG So Hawt!!! So your example fails my observational test.

    Lyon, not being Alex…

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BspcFMWgN_c/

  21. Sentient

    The adv he ice the lookism adherents to by is to ” get this kind of haircut ” and ” wear this type of outfit “, then go to a specific place ( a club ).

    J posts up dudes that all look pretty much the same. He fails to realize that hunting on a game preserve is different than being a real hunter that hints in the wild, so he’s spending time in places where 90% of the guys are some kind of carbon copy of one another. He’s never witnessed a biker that hasn’t bagged in a day or two snatch a hotty off the arm of some skinny jeans wearing, perfectly coifed youngster there’s a lot he misses by reading forums and advice about how to fuck women that go to a building looking to get fucked possibly in the first place.

    Like fishing in an aquarium.its

    He needs to get triple digits outside of a club. Then he won’t stress over haircuts and feminine shit like that. You know you’ve seen the type just like I have. Girly perfectly out together boy men.😂

    He won’t understand the difference between desire sex and horny motherfuckers scratching itches. If he doesn’t do his hair and leave his abode, he don’t get laid. Or he might come home empty handed.

    Because not his frame.

    Never his frame.

    ” make her feel…. “. 😂

    ” Her friends…. “. 😂😂

  22. Btw, my opinion, that guy in the video doesn’t even look like a full grown man imo. Nor does he sound like one.

    But…

    Even he’ll get laid because girls fuck.

    He throws around ” you’re a fucking idiot ” a lot for a guy that looks like a large 12 year old.

  23. @Culum

    Femininity cannot be faked because girls never lie, wear makeup, wear pushup bras, etc. Masculinity can be faked, but femininity cannot. Got it. Thanks for cluing me in. (See? I can be agreeable. I’m always kind of a dick. But only to people whom I actually like.)

    XD

    Yeah, Eh works on the same principle, being a dick to people he likes. Maybe SJF, too.

    @looksmaxxers

    “It pays to look good.”

    Funny, I can wear shit clothes and be unshaven and people still wanna chat me up. I have that entitlement vibe and life of the party vibe going. My nonverbals are solid. In everyday life, not just in clubs. (Not so much if I have just worked out and forgot to apply deodorant, lol.)

    I often ask people to do stuff for me, even if they aren’t expected to. Even when they are hotel staff or waitresses, it’s smart to ask them to do multiple special stuff for you. It’s a funny thing about people that we tend to like people for whom we do favors. So you ask people to do special stuff for you so that they will like you and do more stuff for you.

  24. Femininity isn’t about makeup or frilly dresses and shit like that.

    Again, I’d wager guys j’s age haven’t even seen much real femininity because it’s dying out.

    Femininity is the polar opposite of masculinity ( the other dying thing ). Femininity is complementary to masculinity. In our current femcentric society, there’s nothing to encourage or feed femininity, so it dies on the fine early on.

    So. ” sexy ” oft is confused with ” femininity “. Masculinity finds femininity” sexy ” , but sexy isn’t necessarily feminine in current society.

  25. Palma

    Lol. You start out ” chasing ” until 1) you learn Game. 2) you get a good understanding of female nature outside of chasing them in their frame. 3) you mature enough to not want to lower yourself to the status of a horny teenager.

    Young pua guys that do manage to bang more chicks than the average guy? It becomes very similar to playing video games. Some even get addicted.

    So they stay overly excited and stimulated like crack heads or meth users, thinking their pursuit is of their own free will. And in this case, the chicks are their dealers. Chase down the dealer to get your fix. Go to the crack house or heroin den to be around other guys that understand your motus and addiction. Ever try and talk an addict out of his addiction? Whew!!

  26. “https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effeminacy”

    https://youtu.be/gJcoXC6PKro

    Oh yeah forgot to ask

    “Most guys won’t ever have desire sex and have no idea what it even is. They mistake ” horny ” desire sex”

    Difference between “horny” desire sex and desire sex? Or are we just inventing new terms again so that you feel better about yourself (hehe well he may be having horny desire sex. BUT I’M having desire sex)? Thx

  27. I’ve got a new post up that I hope is a step further along the road to understanding femininity. Some women fake femininity in order to get sex, but they are uncomfortable behaving in a feminine way outside of a sexual frame. Others are intrinsically feminine and are comfortable behaving in a feminine way. Some few women actually prefer behaving in a feminine way. As Blax said, those women are a dying breed.

  28. “partly providing incels from incels.co with a place ed towards escaping inceldom”

    Oh hell. j is worse off than he appears to be. I feel no joy in knowing this.

  29. J

    😂

    Love ya but you’re too young and inexperienced to grasp the difference between horny and desire. You came in the door only ever wanting to pull and bang randoms as fast as possible. It limits your practical experience.

    If a man asks ” what’s the difference between “, it’s apparent he does not know.

  30. @HABD –

    LOL at “Snow White” – I thought she looked familiar but I hadn’t made the connection. But I see what you mean now. Perhaps that’s why @IAS and I agreed she was the most “alluring” of the lot..

  31. While we’re at it. Gonna need you to explain your “because girls fuck” to me as well. Because i have trouble understanding why guys (including guys who’ve been in the game a lot longer than me on this very forum) struggle with young attractive girls. Because girls fuck, right?

    Preciate it ☺️. Ok back to work.

  32. @J

    The main issue I think the guys on here have with you is that you are completely in the girls frame with all your actions with respect to them.
    It’s all about the girls instead of being about you, this may come back to haunt you at some point, I speak from experience.

  33. “struggle with young attractive girls. ”

    writes the incel not pulling any girls.

    Btw the reason j posts pics of pretty boys and such is his Elliot Rodgers style butthurt reference of his competition. He doesnt want to come off such but can’t not obsess about it. These are the guys he hates through boiling envy and posts pics of them in a love-to-hate fashion.

    He can’t get beyond a cliched incel idea of the lucky pretty guys getting laid. It succours his inferiority daddy-neglected-me complex.

  34. You need me to explain the difference between clams and oysters too?

    If for any reason ( incel, ugly, lack of social skills ) a man doesn’t understand the basic principle that girls fuck, it stays with him if he has to learn how to have sex with them. He tends to think without some kind of attractant, women just don’t have sex.

    So down the endless rabbit hold of shortcuts he goes because when he gets laid, he believes he’s cracked some kind of code involving haircuts, cologne, shoes, working out and inhabiting exclusive places. He thinks women never ever just bang guys just because. Guys that think like that haven’t spent a lot of time around women outside of only trying to cajole and convince them to have sex ( females frame ).

    Btw, convincing a woman to ” go with you/isolate ” is your first clue that you won’t have desire sex. She’s decided to fuck you. Not the same thing at all.

    Get to know more women. A good sample size. Observe and listen. Girls fuck. All over the place, just not in clubs. If you didn’t understand that, female nature, then it might never make sense to you.

    Anywhere you find yourself, sex is available to you. Women will pursue you, not the other way around, but you won’t ever even notice if you’re busy being in the feminine frame, thinking that you have to do particular steps and have a fresh fade.😁

    Chicks can and will track you down,delivering pussy to you like a pizza 🍕. But if you are only interested in ” gaming ” them in rooms with alcohol and music and lights flashing, you cannot grasp the nature. All you become familiar with is the nature of women in a controlled environment.

    Girls fuck. You don’t need magic tricks and endless reading isn’t required ( and from what I’ve seen over the last 5 years , all that ” studying ” actually hurts in the long run ). You don’t need surgery, or to to the gym strictly to become more ” appealing ” to bitches😂 ( their frame damnit).

    You want to do something? Get to know 10 chicks that you aren’t trying to fuck, actually learn catonese, and listen and keep your eyes open. If you don’t know women ( or raised a few ), and you can’t be bothered, you might never observe that women fuck. They fuck all kinds of guys. They have urges. They have options. Handsome guys fuck 5’s all the time. Any woman that wants sex can get it damn near asap, and they figure this out early in life. So when any woman wants to fuck, they do so. They even go to clubs. They get the outcome they want. You’re only a participant.

    There aren’t many female incel forums. Why is that?

  35. @Blax

    “So down the endless rabbit hold of shortcuts he goes because when he gets laid, he believes he’s cracked some kind of code involving haircuts, cologne, shoes, working out and inhabiting exclusive places. He thinks women never ever just bang guys just because. Guys that think like that haven’t spent a lot of time around women outside of only trying to cajole and convince them to have sex ( females frame ).”

    The truth pretty much right there, I will say that most of the manosphere pushes the above in some form or another so I get where the putting pussy on a pedestal comes from. When women want to fuck they fuck, in bathrooms/closets/garages/grass whatever. These guys that say they get all these lays don’t understand women very well, if they did they would have to confront the abyss that is women and they would think twice about going into that abyss.

  36. Why do they choose to fuck certain guys over others? What do those guys have that others don’t? Theoretically as you say, they (HB7+) can get it damn near asap, but they choose to fuck the same guys. Whether it’s:

    Above Average Looks + Game guys, High Status (game or gameless) guys or Looks guys.

    It’s not randomly going out on a girls night to fuck Johnny incel.

    You want it? Then become that guy, hot girls want to fuck.

    They aint going through all that work of buying expensive makeup, expensive clothes, butt workouts, eating right, to fuck any guy that looks at them.

  37. “Why do they choose to fuck certain guys over others? What do those guys have that others don’t? Theoretically as you say, they (HB7+) can get it damn near asap, but they choose to fuck the same guys. Whether it’s”

    Self selecting demographic, remember you are looking at a limited set of data. What Blax and others are trying to tell you is that there is a world outside of PUA, and those guys are getting pussy and putting in less way effort than you are, open your eyes look around.

  38. “they choose to fuck the same guys.”

    j writes primarily from the female perspective as if all the sexual decision making lies there.

    That’s incel frame.

    Contrast that from any other established guy posting. They write from their own perspective.

    j begins in her frame as he has zero idea what it is like to have a woman care enough to pursue him.

    He’s a slicksyer fraud.

  39. “those guys are getting pussy and putting in less way effort than you are”

    Social circle game is how most people get laid.

    I don’t know about effort? lol. I view the hobby of getting a new girl, from knowing nothing about me to resting her head on my chest at the end of the night, fun in of itself. When it doesnt do anything for me anymore, is when I’ll walk away and pick up a new hobby. Maybe even take a look at social circle game (when I get a job where the girls I work with are actually hot lol).

  40. Fox guy

    Dudes beholden to pua thought are 100% invested in shit like j says.

    He has no real world experiences, so he goes by what dudes on forums say ( that have no real world experiences either ). I try to get j to think just a little, but the baby won’t let go of the blankie because he likes it and it feels comfortable.

    Girls fuck all kinds of dudes when they want to. Pua disagrees, that doesn’t change the long standing facts that are still evident if you aren’t only depending on other guys to explain stuff they don’t have the data ( not limited data ) to understand.

    I know I won’t ever make sense to j, or change his mind, and that’s not my intention. I’m a foil here. I’m here for guys with questions that are trying to learn pua/looksmaxxing/clubbing. They need more than one limited, women pedestalizing perspective. Those guys aren’t yet fully invested in ” just get laid ” yet, and they could have more of life in their own terms and not in a woman’s frame.

    J has links. I have experience. Imo, both are useful to guys trying to figure things out. Triple digit pulls from clubs will never denote being good at Game because girls fuck – bottom line. That’s why a man can go into a club full of 6’s and convince himself that he’s pulling 8’s. That’s what pua teaches them.

  41. @j

    “THEN he goes on to tell you that if you ARE short… OR tooo tall (lol)… which is apparently ALSO a problem…lol… he can ‘help you’… with his paid consultations/books…lol”

    The solution for both guys who are too short and too tall are in the article free of charge. Don’t mislead people.

    lol… his ‘solution’ was to ‘Don’t hunch!’, wear heels/inserts… and LIE…lol… BC that’s what GIRLS do…lol

    If you are not particularly tall, there is not so much you can do, but all is not lost. If your posture is bad, I would work on that as this will dramatically improve your appearance. Don’t hunch! You can also take a leaf out of the Big Female Book of Deception. Start wearing leather shoes instead of sneakers as the former tend to have a heel that boosts your height by 1.5 inches or so. On top, get inlays to add another inch. In particular if you are a little below 6′, this will help you a lot. On a related note, some of you may try their luck online and get frustrated because all the women ignore you due to your stated height. Well, do what a lot (most?) women do and state your height with those artificial boosters. The number of women who believe that their height in high heels is their natural height is rather substantial. Lastly, you can make use of another female habit: lie! The difference between a woman in real life and her representation online is often staggering. So, to even the playing field a little bit, bump yourself up from 5’8″ or 5’9″ to 6′! She’s likely at least ten pounds heaver than in her pictures, so what right would she have to complain?

    acting like a girl… that’s definitely waaay outside your OWN MPoO…lol

    Since we’re sharing articles by Chase, how about one more:

    https://www.girlschase.com/content/girls-who-want-sleep-you-usually-know-it-right-away

    this dude REALLY should get that armor polish up on his site… i could NOT find a link anywhere…lol

    “If a woman is going to go to bed with you, she knows it the moment you approach. You still will end up doing things like:

    Spending time with her[gotta earn her…]
    Connecting enough with her
    [bc she is the prize!…]
    Making her laugh
    [somehow i don’t think this was ever a problem/issue for SFC Ton…lol]
    Showing her whom you are
    [gotta prove/qualify yourself as good enough for her, ammirite?…lol]
    Displaying valuable things about yourself
    [ditto… see above]
    Communicating to her she ‘qualifies’ for you.
    [lol… i love the scare quotes… can’t even bring himself to make that assertion in his own article…lol]

    However, these actions serve the purpose of moving things along and getting her comfortable enough to let her guard down with you.

    whose frame is this?… rhetorical…lol

    They are not to ‘make her want you’… not really. [finally!… an accurate statement!…lol]

    Because she already wanted you. [does this dude even understand the concept of open hypergamy?…lol… OR solipsism?…lol] You’re just trying to help her feel like it’s okay to give into what she wants”.[ditto…lol…how is this any other frame besides hers?… serious question…]

    did you even read that article?…lol… that^^^ was the same behavior for the ‘normal guy school’ (beta) poon chasing…lol… but i suppose if you bought his program, he could somehow teach you the ‘difference’…lol…

    but the one thing he is missing (besides the concept of open hypergamy and solipsism…lol) is that girls only act on the behaviors presented to them… so if it walks like a beta… and talks like a beta… you are not going to ping her AF algo with transactional stuff like that^^^… and if you are not in her AF algo, it’s gonna be ‘attraction sex’ at best…as opposed to ‘arousal sex’… that still can be pretty good, though…lol

    re “girls f*k…”

    there are two types of sex…

    (from an evo bio/psych perspective… which is the only one that really matters in the overall analysis… bc that is the process your (and her) body chemistry is working through in the situ… everything else is just rationalization…)

    for girls, sex has two purposes –

    (note – both of which is ‘in service of the egg’… or as kfg says ‘it’s babies all the way down…’)

    1) to get the “best” genetic material available to her for her offspring (AF) (meaning her sons are more likely to procreate = sexy son theory… bc her girl’s procreation is almost a given…) and

    2) to secure safety/provisioning for herself and her offspring… if any… and regardless of who the father is…

    for men, sex is about procreation only…

    bc girls can get AF genetic material into their baby-makers through ‘a couple minutes behind that bush over there’ (AF), their default algo is BB… bc getting safety/provisioning is how she stays alive in ‘the nature’… which does not have much empathy for you… long enough to meet that AF stud “behind that bush”… which in ‘nature’ the AF/BB would likely be the same man… see gangis khan for an extreme example…lol

    unless you can break out of that BB algo, you are not getting into her AF algo… even if the sex is great… and if the sex is good enough, it probably doesn’t matter to you…lol… but it’s still not AF/desire sex/validational (for the girl) sex (@Rollo’s term)… it’s still just BB/transactional sex… again, it might not matter to you…

    (note – AF/desire sex/validational sex only takes place (CAN only take place) in the man’s frame… when SHE comes to HIM… that’s the only way it CAN be bc THAT submission by her is what triggers that part of her bio chemistry… as well as yours…

    that’s why those irish girls in that video trigger men… they ping your ‘protect her’ algo… see how that works in complementary fashion?… masculine/feminine… almost like it was designed to operate that way…lol…

    (that was EhIntellect’s whole issue starting back on page one of the FR section… he was trapped in his wife’s frame and even though the sex seemed pretty good, it was still transactional/BB… he worked through it, but that’s probably why you trigger him so much…lol… he’s trying to get you to see the light based on his personal journey…))

    ‘obligation sex’ is just a subset of transactional/BB sex… it is in her frame… and by providing her ‘obligation sex’ she secures a continuation of resources… just like other transactional sex secures her resources (in its many forms… one of which is ‘social proof’…lol… think about a ‘doctor’s wife’… (no offense SJF…lol)… she gets social proof (among other things) from THAT type of sex… hey! that sounds just like those club girls trading social proof for sex with you!…lol… just barely not kidding…

    <3 you, bro,… no homo…lol

    i WAS ramping up to pull together another big dissertation on this sh*t, but i kind of lost interest…lol

    good luck!

  42. @Blaximus

    There aren’t many female incel forums. Why is that?

    there ARE however, many forums dedicated to girls extracting resources from guys…lol… why is THAT?…(rhetorical…lol)

    good luck!

  43. J

    Perfect example of you only getting your information from guys without understanding what women do. Cats are not dogs.

    Women don’t dress, wear makeup or workout to attract men the same way men are prone to do to attract women.

    90% of all of what women do wrt to looks is in direct competition with other women. Women do not sweat men the same way men sweat women. Attracting men is mostly a byproduct for the more attractive chicks. That’s why complementing them on how they look is a flood errand. When a man enters that feminine frame of working at ” looks ” the same way that they do, yes, they notice, but you’re in their/feminine frame. The only difference is you have a dick.

    More difference is better.

    Hang out with bonafide hotties and this is apparent. They don’t notice guys salivating. They didn’t dress to make you salivate. They dressed to outshine the competition. If you don’t grasp, you’re just like a dildo with perfectly plucked eyebrows. Their frame. You benefit. Not Game nor red pill. More like super slick beta.

  44. “AF/desire sex/validational sex only takes place (CAN only take place) in the man’s frame… when SHE comes to HIM… that’s the only way it CAN be bc THAT submission by her is what triggers that part of her bio chemistry… as well as yours…”

    @ HABD

    IMO validation or AF sex is yet a bilateral insecurity reduction transaction. It may not be a out-of-pocket loss, yet in the Jungian sense she is desiring a man to reduce her feelings of inconsequence and he believes she is fucking him for him. It is yet a transaction and such dangerous for men to think it differently. She is fucking him for herself, she takes his time and body for her benefit, not his.

    If a man believes a woman comes to him and sexes him, for his-evo/bio/psych-self, and then he loses the ability to sex her at some time, he loses himself. He anchor unmoors. He has lost his usefulness and lost usefulness, in a evo-bio sense, is lost meaning to live.

    Thus, AF/desire sex is not fully in his frame. The AF meatsack is no less a commodity than BB provisioning as both are useful to quell fear of nothingness a.k.a. dread.

    Fear is a cruel master.

  45. …‘obligation sex’ is just a subset of transactional/BB sex… it is in her frame… and by providing her ‘obligation sex’ she secures a continuation of resources… just like other transactional sex secures her resources (in its many forms… one of which is ‘social proof’…lol… think about a ‘doctor’s wife’… (no offense SJF…lol)… she gets social proof (among other things) from THAT type of sex… hey! that sounds just like those club girls trading social proof for sex with you!…lol… just barely not kidding…

    I definitely don’t take offense to that HABD.

    Our social set is composed of 80% non beta males. And a lot of wealth. (I’m pretty wealthy, but my income is chump change these days. And my wife is pretty well pissed about my income on 2.5 days of going to work, with no side hustle…)

    The reason I don’t take offense is because the desire sex is really good these days with us.

    I spent a lot of work on MRP game. Then I stripped all my potential personality negatives out of me in a reductive process. Leaving my own valuable masculine self. So now, I just be myself….

    And my wife kept up her part of the potential bargain. She’s a great looking 54 year old post menopausal woman with “good character” that I enjoy sex with. (somehow, and I know why, she turned much more into sex. And it’s not because I’m providing more stuff, let alone social proof or being nice, blue pill.)

    You know, the secret society of happily married, non-blue pill, not so trad-con as to be stupid couples that have good sex regularly? Without a lot of “work”? And have great children that are autonomous and fun to hang out with? And soon to breed grandchildren?

    You know, all the stuff the old married guys (from diverse mental points of origin) have been saying for years here? And happens to be 90% universal truths? It works for me.

  46. 90% of all of what women do wrt to looks is in direct competition with other women. Women do not sweat men the same way men sweat women. Attracting men is mostly a byproduct for the more attractive chicks.

    Something most men really just don’t understand I think.

    Sex is not a big deal to women, in that they can always get it. It’s available on tap, and pretty much regardless of how they look — there are plenty of guys who will bang uggos, and there are plenty of “good looking” guys who will bang Plain Jane 5s without blinking.

    Women dress to compete with other women — yes, that competition is in terms of attracting men — i.e., “who is the fairest of them all??” type of thing — but the point of it isn’t to actually fuck men or attract men to fuck them, it’s to compete with other women in the battle of “who is the fairest of them all”. It’s one of the primary ways women compete with each other intra-sexually — the other two are (1) husband quality and (2) children quality. Women don’t need to dress hot to get men to fuck them, even “looksmaxed” men — they can show up with no makeup and in baggy shorts and Mr. Looksmax will be rock hard in ten seconds. They know that. It’s the world from a woman’s perspective — sex is on tap. Erections are on tap. It is literally NO BIG DEAL to women in a way that almost no (straight) man can comprehend, because most straight men live in a world of scarcity when it comes to sex. No woman does.

  47. It is literally NO BIG DEAL to women in a way that almost no (straight) man can comprehend, because most straight men live in a world of scarcity when it comes to sex. No woman does.

    and women also have sex for lots of reasons besides desire, arousal, AF (seed) or BB (provision)…

    Lonely, validation, bored, angry (at someone else), revenge, because her friends are, etc.

  48. @ novaseeker

    “Sex is not a big deal to women, in that they can always get it.”

    I want to riff on this.

    True what you write above though women are not getting it from not the quality of man they’d like otherwise we never hear “They are no good men around no more!” They do care about who they’re banging somewhat as it reflects on their self-respect, so they can’t always get it as they won’t fuck down. There is a sexual fail-safe point. Hypergamy controls her sexual negotiation, I guess, in a way. She’s gonna have to up her game or play a different one to find a valuable man she believes is worthwhile.

    Then again, there are a lot of women, young women with potential, tumbling down the SMP value from hopelessness driven self-neglect. We all see these young women on any given workplace. The incentive and competition for men to fuck isn’t higher, not because all guys will fuck anything. No. It’s because guys won’t fuck anything. The cat is out of the bag, if only as a open secret. Men have for most part walked away from any serious sexual negotiation altogether and women respond with despair-engendering over-eating, over-consumption, over-education all unattractive to men. It’s a pernicious positive feedback loop.

    Watch what and how much women eat, drink, and buy, not what they say. All that inconsequential energy spent is a plea of fearful despair that life is meaningless so they stupidly fill it with handbags and such…oh and yoga, and when that fails, hot yoga.

    When a woman preens about an accomplishment/acquisition, its not bragging, it’s a search for validation. It’s not strength. It’s weak, seriously weak.

    “No good men” is not about BB. It’s about finding a guy they’d fuck for the sake of fucking for the rest of their lives. There just isn’t enough those guys to go around, not because men can’t be such…they are choosing not to be as the incentive is too low…so again with the AF and BB amalgam husband or LTR or less committed relationship.

    On one hand, they can always get it if they fuck down or maybe…maybe…fuck up but don’t expect his commitment + he’s drunk and his defenses are down.

    Fucking up anecdote: Recent divorced acquaintance warns his nephew while partying that a known nearby cougar desires him. He submits and she fucks him, he doesn’t remember much so that’s that. She gets youthful and momentary validation, he gets off. Did they both gain something? Yes. Anything lasting? No. Does she call that victory? Yes. Is it? IMO, it’s Pyrrhic.

    My divorced acquaintance claims she chews guys up with her crafty womanly wiles. I claim the scenario no different than me fucking a senior citizen. That struck him as he’s plying his personal BB sexually with good effect. She wasn’t chewing anything up. He thinks she has seduction power. I claim the nephew fucked waaaay down and did himself a disservice. She wasn’t seductive, he was lazy and drunk. She wasn’t fucking him for him. She was fucking him for her. No different than any other AF sexual tryst. It’s a negotiation of insecurity. She has a lot of insecurity so she attacks. He has little insecurity, she did all the work, and zero chance of generation, so he doesn’t care. It’s like it never happened.

    She finds comfort feeding her fear begetting more fear. There’s no end until there is and she takes a hand full of pills a booze and doesn’t wake up.

    She’s slowly self-immolating.

  49. @HABD

    “If a woman is going to go to bed with you, she knows it the moment you approach. You still will end up doing things like:

    “Spending time with her[gotta earn game her…]”

    “Connecting enough with her[bc she is the prize! won’t think you’re just tryin’ pump and dump her ass]”

    “Showing her whom you are[gotta prove/qualify yourself as good enough for her, ammirite?…lol Demonstrate Higher Value. Standard stuff]

    “Communicating to her she ‘qualifies’ for you.[lol… i love the scare quotes… can’t even bring himself to make that assertion in his own article…lol]”

    Because we (hey maybe you guys do lol) don’t care about their accomplishments or if what she says is all that impressive. As long as she feels she’s earned me, by constantly qualifying herself to me, it moves the seduction along.

    “However, these actions serve the purpose of moving things along and getting her comfortable enough to let her guard down with you.

    whose frame is this?”

    Mine.

    “You’re just trying to help her feel like it’s okay to give into what she wants”.[ditto…lol…how is this any other frame besides hers?”

    She may want to fuck you (via your looks + sexual frames you set/spiking her emotions). But she won’t allowed herself to get carried away with you, If ALL you do is spike her buying temperature via passing shit tests. This is what building connection via her investing, qualifying her to you, and overall spending time with her, accomplishes.

    “and if you are not in her AF algo, it’s gonna be ‘attraction sex’ at best…as opposed to ‘arousal sex’…”

    Making her feel allowed to fuck you falls under the social frame key.

    Turning her on (which setting sexual frames accomplishes, proximity, sexual eye contact) falls under the sexual arousal key.

    The other key is emotional stimulation which is leading the conversation towards topics that engage her emotions and imagination.

    Have all three keys in place = arousal sex.

    “unless you can break out of that BB algo, you are not getting into her AF algo… even if the sex is great… and if the sex is good enough, it probably doesn’t matter to you…lol… but it’s still not AF/desire sex/validational (for the girl) sex (@Rollo’s term)… it’s still just BB/transactional sex… again, it might not matter to you…”

    Ya all the times I had sex outside in the park, sideway, dark alley, church, rooftop, club bathroom, hotel bathroom, police car. And times I’ve cummed inside girls pussy were definitely BB sex….need to find a way to get some AF sex. I can only imagine how much better the sex might be!

    “‘obligation sex’ is just a subset of transactional/BB sex… it is in her frame… and by providing her ‘obligation sex’ she secures a continuation of resources”

    my semen?

  50. @Sentient

    “Lonely, validation, bored”

    yup. old school Gunwitch Method:

    There are 2 types you need to close WAY before the club shuts down.

    1 is the out of towner with no friends as mentioned above.

    Second is what I call bored chicks.

    These women are in a nutshell there with lots of friends, party vibe is jamming in the place, but they are just sitting there seemingly bored as fuck. Their friends also leave them alone. The reasons here I have found are always similar. Usually this chick is married, hasn’t hooked up in ages cause she never goes to clubs and guys outside of them are too pussy to approach her when sober. This makes her more interested in sex than the party vibe, YET makes her seem like she is standoffish and bored with everything and prevents guys from approaching her THERE.

    Second her friends know this and by simply being chicks know the code of cockblocks and lone women being easier prey, so they leave her the fuck alone!

    These women need very little party vibe and very little attraction game even. They simply need you to ask them some questions, volunteer some information about yourself and then ask em:

    Hell let’s blow this joint and go have some drinks at my place and listen to some good music”.

    Many times these bored women seem standoffish or like they just aren’t having any party vibe or game you throw at them, but they in fact are just like a frustrated wallflower guy who is so sexually deprived he cant loosen up and have any fun and is ONLY there to get laid.

  51. My divorced acquaintance claims she chews guys up with her crafty womanly wiles. I claim the scenario no different than me fucking a senior citizen.

    Truth…

    “we are close and bantering a bit back and forth.. she telling me about her life and qualifying to me she says at one point “you know I fuck 28 YO guys” like it was a brag. she was feisty… I am super calm, hand on my hip, close to her and say “well that’s like me saying I fuck 60 YO women, you know that right?” completely dismissing her boast and BAM! her jaw drops again. OMG!”

    #7 https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/sentients-dynamic-passionate-authentic-framework/

  52. ” gunwhitch ” he says.😂😂

    Foxguy

    This is what I was talking about earlier. References go back to what some guy said.

    That’s why he still thinks having sex in nontraditional places is desire sex he literally has no clue but is positive that he does.

  53. Eh

    Think about it. Look around you.

    I never gave one fuck shot the ” no good men ” shit when I heard it back in the 80’s, but watch and listen to younger guys today.

    Media and the economy and social media work together to create fantasy worlds that young people think they can have. Anything else is Shitty and unacceptable. Stay tuned to see how this plays out in the future

    But….
    There aren’t many good men today, courtesy of the FI. Even sex has become masturbation using a girl.

  54. “” Keys ” he says..”

    social frame, emotional stimulation, and sexual arousal, are the “three keys” in Gunwitch’s SMMA product. I’ve found “the three keys” to be useful mental model to have when talking to girls I want to sleep with.

    ” gunwhitch ” he says”

    Which I’ve found true. I could have simply said, “yes @Sentient that’s true. I’ve picked up girls that were bored sitting on a sofa texting some random guy/girl, and opened, “are you texting your husband? or something to that effect”, but I wanted to give credit where credit is due because that’s who I originally learned it from.

    “That’s why he still thinks having sex in nontraditional places is desire sex”

    @HABD: “bc girls can get AF/desire sex genetic material into their baby-makers through ‘a couple minutes behind that bush over there’ (AF)”

    Pointing out that I’ve already had that “couple minutes behind that bush over there” type sex several times already.

    “he literally has no clue”

    Good thing Rollo already explained it to me:

    “Whether LTR or a one night stand (ONS) strive for genuine desire in your relationships. Half of the battle is knowing you want to be with a woman who wants to please you, not one who feels obligated to. Real desire is created by her thinking it’s something she wants, not something she has to do.”

    Every girl I’ve been with wanted to have sex with me. Some couldn’t wait and took down my pants in the cab to start sucking my dick.

    Never have I experienced a girl feeling like she has to please me or being turned down for sex “not tonight honey. I’m not in the mood”. Literally clueless as to what that feels like.

  55. Does this ” every girl” only pertain to club girls? Had a few drinks?

    Ever share a cab with a total stranger and gotten that same blowjob?

    Again, leave the ” club ” stuff aside. It clouds what you see or what you think you’re seeing. At your age, what’s happening sexually with hot women you meet (I assume ) away from the club? Not girls that text you that you met in a club either, away from all clubs.

    Hunting in one place constantly gives bad data. Makes skills seen like more than they are in reality. Walk around, spot a real hottie, bang her. Not in 90 minutes ( that’s stupid after a while unless your pulling strangers off the street in 90 minutes. That’d be hellified master level game ), pick 3 off the hottest women you see and bang them in 30 days or less. All 3.

    Then we’re talking.

  56. “Even sex has become masturbation using a girl.”

    Exactly. Hence my beef with notch counts on principle. The moment a guy fucks for a notch he’s out of his frame. Hence my beef with masturbation in general too. Men do care who’s frame they’re in but won’t admit it for fear of social isolation. Moreover ceding frame happens a lot subtler than guys recognize. Here at TRM too.

    WTF is up with j’s inability to grok this? I swear he wills himself stupid or more likely is a incel dressed in playa clothing fishing for cred.

  57. J is far away from stupid. He grasps pua stuff because it’s what he wanted to grasp.

    The underlying theme in pua forums and the like, is that only Pua’s know how to seduce women. So if a guy learns pickup and happens to get laid, he’s sold. He’ll only value pua stuff.

    Just telling a guy he can get laid isn’t sufficient for some men because they just don’t believe it. They couldn’t get laid and aren’t sure why. So guys that can baby step them become mostly infallible God-like men.

    It’s an industry now. A kind of cult. It creates nothing but a kind of language ( that’s just rehashed over and over and over again ). But the objective: get pussy, overrule common sense and the ability to reason concerning women, if the advice isn’t from another teacher or practitioner.

    Sad to see a man’s life reduced like that, but hey, pedestalizing pussy can never end well. It’s not supposed to. That’s why we cautIon against it to those who will reasonably listen.

  58. “A kind of cult.”

    Diily silly (Has that catch phrase passed? I haven’t been keeping score.)

    It’s like you tell someone that the sun comes up in the east because it does and relax about it (girls fuck) and they immediately start in telling you why the sun comes up all science-y and certain situations it doesn’t (You’ve got shit game bro but this Gunster video should help).

  59. Anyhow I’m at a corporate bar and restaurant with a large outdoor area. Venue’s nice enough, scenic.

    Shiner Bock (good) Acid Kuba Kuba (great).

  60. They know that. It’s the world from a woman’s perspective — sex is on tap. Erections are on tap. It is literally NO BIG DEAL to women in a way that almost no (straight) man can comprehend, because most straight men live in a world of scarcity when it comes to sex. No woman does.

    Blax, I wanted to highlight this part of Nova’s comment for you, because I think it is the crux of the difference between what you are saying, and stuff like “PUA Game” and “looksmaxing” etc. Taking your comments on this forum at face value, seems to me that you are a pure natural, you are a guy who’s never had issues getting sex or getting laid, and so your default perspective is one of “what is all the fuss about”, just be “masculine” and realize “women fuck”…well it ain’t that simple for 90-98% of guys out there which is why PUA exists, why something like “looksmaxing” exists, guys who couldn’t get laid to save their lives are just trying to figure out how to boost their odds because although “women fuck” it never seems to be with certain guys lol.

    The last girl I dated after my marriage ended was some of the best “desire” sex I’ve had, but to be honest she was easily 3-4 points below me in looks for basically our group of 40s. We ended the relationship in April and one of her sentiments was the the relationship was “just me using her for sex”, and one of her points to me was “I can get sex anytime I want”…my retort was “yeah, but you can’t get GOOD sex” but she was right about access to dick. She had a mile long list of guys hitting her on on Tinder, POF, etc.

  61. Morpheus

    Hey bro.

    Just for clarification, my stance isn’t quite ” what’s all the fuss ” type thing.

    It’s like a guy stranded in the forest, and he desperately needs to build a fire so he can stay warm and cook whatever he can catch, and boil water to drink. But he wastes time looking for specific types of wood to burn. People make fire in the woods all the time, and if it’s crucial, you don’t need to make such a task out of it. Just build the fire already.

    I rejected the ” natural ” label when Yareally regular!y slapped it on me. No man is just born automatically with instant access to sex. I had to figure things out just like any guy would have to. The only difference was that I never bought into the bullshit people said about females and learned from them while steering clear of their frames. I’ve always seen the man as the director of the relationship/sex. Women aren’t any prize.

    Call it dominant or whatever, but I approach women with a different mindset than Pua’s teach. And mostly, they cooperate and submit and become desirous. But I had to figure it out like the guy needing to build that fire. Nothing ” natural ” about it.

  62. “Sad to see a man’s life reduced like that, but hey, pedestalizing pussy can never end well. It’s not supposed to. That’s why we cautIon against it to those who will reasonably listen.”

    This is the crux of the matter, pussy is good, there is no doubt about it, but how you get is very important when it comes to girls. As Blax says sex is no big deal for the girl, when the guy makes it a bigger deal than her and is jumping through hoops to qualify it won’t end well. You have a mismatch of value, she doesn’t value the sex while the male places high value, aka it’s her frame at that point.

  63. Guys need to learn from this statement below, women are by and large a large liability when not managed correctly, sometimes a huge one. I don’t know if it was from my dad but somehow I have never viewed them as any kind of prize, even though my mom was an excellent mom very feminine and loving, my dad never treated her as any type of prize. Even though she was excellent cook for him, bore him 4 children, never talked to other men, generally loved the crap out of him he has never treated her as any type of prize.

    Once you truly understand women you will realize how big of a liability they can be if not managed correctly, you will also see how much more a woman needs you rather than you needing her, you are the prize, she must jump through the hoops for you.

    “the only difference was that I never bought into the bullshit people said about females and learned from them while steering clear of their frames. I’ve always seen the man as the director of the relationship/sex. Women aren’t any prize.”

  64. Foxguy

    The ” average ” woman understands that men want sex really, really badly, but a majority of them are clueless about what that means because they don’t have lots of testosterone coursing through their veins. They know men like certain things, and they know that they posses the things men seem to want, but even they don’t really see themselves as special, worthy of pedestalizing the way men do.

    But they’ll take it if you’re willing to give it, and it becomes a bargaining chip.

    It effects the way they see the average guy. He’s a little weak and ruled by his dick, lol. They think this way because they aren’t men.

    So yeah, they will bang to scratch an itch, and they understand that the guy needs to feel a certain something ( sleep with your head in his chest…lol ), but ” just sex ” isn’t what many guys think it is, especially Pua’s who believe they are pulling strings and doing alchemy. No, they’re having sex. That’s it. Lol, guys say they want her to ” choose ” them, like shoes or a new dress.

    Hence the dry of ” no good men “. It’s mostly bullshit, but society is castrating men as fast as possible. No good men means no masculinity. Women can’t quite put a name on it, as they love speaking in non specific generalities. Catonese.

    But good for them that sucks are like buses. Another one comes along almost hourly.

  65. That’s ” dicks are like buses.. ” , not ” sucks ”

    Spellchecker refuses to display ” dicks ” and ” males ” whenever I type it.

  66. “I never bought into the bullshit people said about females”

    Except when you did.

    A billion lays, 2 kids and 1 divorce.

    Don’t pedestalize Blax.

  67. Star fish sex = typical of a LTR within a beta provisioning scenario

    Gold digger sex – sex often perceived as horny sex but with the intention of draining a man’s resources

    Lust sex = typical of a same night club type pull with woman in a horny state

    Support sex – hot sex often perceived as desire sex but with the intention of locking a man into paternity support

    Desire sex = passionate sex when male is perceived as alpha seed – the woman will pursue the man in an almost stalking manner

  68. @Centuries

    Nice to go off on red pill awareness of unhealthy pathological ways it’s done.

    There is also LTR healthy ways of doing it.

    Which is paradoxical here. Lot’s of excellent manosphere content providers frolic in healthy ways of doing it. While acknowledging unhealthy an unhappy person behavior.

    It’s not such a mystery. It is simple. It is not easy. You want easy. It doesn’t exist for males, unless a male is on easy street by his intrinsic nature. A male can put himself on easy street by trial and error. With confidence and competence. Competence is an outgrowth of mastery. Which comes from application. Action with subsequent success. And then ease.

    As fundamentally told by EhIntellect, there is such a thing as balancing order and mystery. Order and adventure. Safety and mindfulness vs. adventure and exploiting/flirting with danger. Solid ordered professional life vs. climbing cliffs and possibly falling off a cliff. At times, leaning out to your edge.

    And not so much balancing as in either or: “This is the genius of understanding and executing a dualistic nature of order + mystery. Both must be addressed. Anything short renders confusion and ill-will and sadness and grasping for meaning.” –EhIntellect quote.

    Sustaining desire in a committed relationship:
    “At the heart of sustaining desire in a committed relationship is the reconciliation of two fundamental human needs. On the one hand, our need for security, for predictability, for safety, for dependability, for reliability, for permanence. On the other hand, for adventure, for novelty, for mystery, for risk, for danger, for the unknown, for the unexpected. Rather than viewing this tension between the erotic and the domestic as a problem to solve, I suggest you view it as a paradox to manage.” [Esther Perel, TED talk]

  69. “Lust sex = typical of a same night club type pull with woman in a horny state”

    And then after only initate contact when the other is horny. Yeah sounds about right. That type of “stalker pursuit” happens after a girl is hooked on your dick. Which is why blax says desire sex usually doesn’t happen the first night you meet her. Only stalking I’ve had is girls stalking my social media. When I didn’t even give them my last name lol. I figured they just looked through my wallet when I was taking a shit.

  70. “That type of “stalker pursuit” happens after a girl is hooked on your dick.”

    Untrue. Flatly uninformed, overconfident made-up fakery. “Hooked on your dick” as a phrase sounds straight out of a incel forum. j is the height of stupidity clowning around as Professor Love Machine.

    I’ve been stalked and it has little to do with sex.

    j has swapped his individual conscience long ago for some queer sense of PUA social conscious belonging. Hence all the contrived hipster throw-away lines. He literally can’t think for himself for fear of isolation.

  71. 😂😂😂

    Jesus.

    Nah, chicks can and do get ” hooked on your dick “.

    Imo, if a.man has an eye towards marriage, he’d better consider a ” hooked on your dick ” chick because it will greatly minimize the dead bedroom phenomenon years later. Guys should pay attention.

    If you aren’t banging virgins, and you can talk to the chick you’re fucking, you’ll find that there’s a shortage of men that can properly swing a cock. Sometimes chicks resign themselves to making the best of a semi satisfying sex life, until they run across the dick of their dreams, lmao.

  72. The thing with desire sex is that until you experience it, you can’t understand it. You won’t even know it exists or you’ll label something else as desire sex. It’s just a phrase.

    It’s kind of a “explain the sun to someone who has never seen it” mental exercise. “It’s like a candle, but hotter and way bigger” doesn’t really cut it.

    When it does happen to you though, you know. It is unmistakeable – there’s no doubt.

    All the regular posters here have heard me talk a lot about a toilet BJ I got years ago, early in my online dating career. Why do I talk so much about that experience and how defining it was for me? It wasn’t my first lay, it wasn’t my first SNL. I’d slept with a reasonable number of women by then. But it was my first desire sex..and that’s something else entirely.

    The thing is, @j is actually pretty good at PUA and has learned a lot since his incel days. But following the steps and ticking the boxes only takes you so far.

    To give a martial arts analogy (no doubt @TantumErgo can clarify), any martial art has a bunch of techniques that you learn. But the techniques are not the art, no matter how well they work. The techniques are tools to learn the underlying principles, and it is learning the principles that actually constitutes learning the art – it’s only when you understand the principles that you can create new techniques or apply techniques in a new situation that is different from what you’ve trained for. Otherwise you’ve just memorized a bunch of techniques (which may still work – in precisely the situation you trained for and assuming you’re not fighting someone who does understand them).

    It’s the same thing with PUA. @j is really good at the techniques, but he hasn’t gotten to the principles yet (he thinks he has of course, but it’s pretty clear from the last week of discussion that he hasn’t). Incidentally, this is the reason why Blax is telling him to go into other situations and try pulling girls in a context other than 2am in a nightclub – to see if he understands the principles well enough to make them work outside the context in which he trained.

    Having said that, I do need to address a couple of things that Blax said, for the record:

    “The underlying theme in pua forums and the like, is that only Pua’s know how to seduce women. So if a guy learns pickup and happens to get laid, he’s sold. He’ll only value pua stuff.

    Just telling a guy he can get laid isn’t sufficient for some men because they just don’t believe it. They couldn’t get laid and aren’t sure why. So guys that can baby step them become mostly infallible God-like men.

    It’s an industry now. A kind of cult. It creates nothing but a kind of language ( that’s just rehashed over and over and over again ). But the objective: get pussy, overrule common sense and the ability to reason concerning women, if the advice isn’t from another teacher or practitioner.”

    This isn’t true Blax. A lot of people do end up like this but many don’t, and it’s certainly not the purpose of PUA. That can’t be helped – there is no skill where everyone goes through all the steps.

    I assume you know plenty of young boxers who came in to learn so that they could be good at beating people up and over time as they gained skill and maturity, they learned to tone it down? “The best fighters are the ones who are most reluctant to be violent” etc?

    It’s exactly the same mental process.

    YaReally may have been like this when he was early in his PUA days (I don’t know). But by the time he was posting here after 10 years as a PUA, he had matured and understood all this and would have totally disagreed with @j (Ya had some issues with marriage but that’s a separate point). Hell, you can even see Ya’s evolution from 2011 (when he started posting) to 2016 when he stopped.

    “I rejected the ” natural ” label when Yareally regular!y slapped it on me. No man is just born automatically with instant access to sex. I had to figure things out just like any guy would have to. The only difference was that I never bought into the bullshit people said about females and learned from them while steering clear of their frames. I’ve always seen the man as the director of the relationship/sex. Women aren’t any prize.”

    No one said that Naturals came out of the womb knowing how to get laid. “Natural” means you learned it young, and (usually) that you didn’t go through a conscious “studying/practicing” kind of process to learn it – it was just osmosis environmental (young enough that “struggling with women” was never a part of your identity and self-image – note that I’m not saying you never struggled with any woman and have had a perfect life wrt them – obviously not).

    That fairly accurately describes you – which is why Ya (correctly) called you a Natural.

  73. @ Blax

    Yes to that though your reply has little to do with stalking. Stalkers are pursuing not the dick but obsessive possession-ownership of another.

  74. The wheels on the bus go round and round , round and round :).

    I don’t have any particular disagreement with gaining an understanding of women to have sex with them, but you gotta admit , P in V is just that P in V. When I think about genuine desire it’s not even really mainly about the sex, but rather what it represents, what it means, it means you have achieved a level of high value to yourself and the women can see/feel/smell that, in that instance it’s still the male frame of reference.

    My main issue with PUA is that the frame is on the girl, what the girl wants, what you need to do to get the girl. Does it work ? Yes, it absolutely does but it’s just P in V. I get the real sense that what a lot of these PUA guys are looking for is something solid in their life, something to order the chaos in the world and make sense of life, they are looking for an anchor. I get that, I’m currently embarking on such a mission myself because my current path that gave my world order is coming to and end(it wasn’t females , but rather career) and I got some hard decisions to make. If you are on such a journey, females are absolutely the worst anchor a man can have, you would be better off trying to get a life anchor from a magic 8 ball than from women. It’s the siren call to Odysseus promising an end to the male burden of performance, that’s PUA.

  75. @Palma

    Exactly, hence why women can never be a true anchor to any mans life. The way certain individuals defend PUA with an almost religious like fervor is what leads me to believe it’s an anchor for them, even if they claim it isn’t, the may not be consciously aware they are using it as an anchor to their life.

    I will give PUA guys credit in that they realize something is missing in life, most men don’t even get that far. I give them credit for searching for the meaning of life/anchor. it’s just not women unfortunately.

  76. Culum!!!!!!!!!!

    Going o/t because something you wrote gave me a flashback, and I like flashbacks.

    “I assume you know plenty of young boxers who came in to learn so that they could be good at beating people up and over time as they gained skill and maturity, they learned to tone it down? “The best fighters are the ones who are most reluctant to be violent” etc?”

    True. In fact, I picked up boxing initially because I was such a skinny guy – like starving Ethiopian skinny – and it bothered me every single day. So my solution was to lift with my giant steroid using cousins and take up boxing and martial arts. I didn’t immediately want to beat people up, but I had an inordinate hatred for bullies and truth be told, I wanted to have an ability to punish them for being bullies.

    This was before the prevalence of fire arms on the street though. I’d hate to think what I’d do if I was 16 years old today.

    But you’re correct with one small caveat, it depends on who’s teaching and coaching you. I had great instructors that pushed through my initial laziness ( hated doing roadwork and heavy bag ) and actually got me to appreciate the science in the sport. And as you say, I gained skill and immediately matured.

    But I still wanted to beat street thugs into dust… Lol.

    I took up martial arts because of this man – https://www.njsmartialartshof.com/abdallah?p=317 but not as a student. K.A. systems students were notorious bullies that I’d had a few unsuccessful run ins with ( mostly due to being with women, but separate story ). I grew tired of being kicked and swept and needed to know how to avoid and counter dudes fighting with arms and legs. Then I saw Bruce Lee and it was a wrap, lol.

    It wasn’t possible to do boxing and martial arts and be very good at both, so boxing won out after I’d learned to disarm the karate thugs from K.A., lol.

    About the reluctance towards violence. Interesting.

    I had a reluctance to just start throwing punches because frankly, it hurt. People have very hard skulls and pretty sharp teeth, so after a fight, the next day my hands would be cut and swollen. I’ve broken my hands outside of the ring more than I have inside one. I don’t have ” fighter’s hands ” ( smaller ). I was at a wedding reception once, at a table with Michael Spinks, Joe Frazier and Butch Lewis, and I had tiny girl hands comparatively. So it wasn’t so much ” reluctance ” as not wanting to walk around with sore, achy hands for days afterwards.

    But back to coaches.

    In the gym the guys who wanted to just beat people up stood out like sore thumbs. The coach would break them by having them spar with ranked amateurs or golden glove competitors. The beat ’em up dudes would usually split after an ordeal like that. The ones who stuck around learned and became disciplined.

    Any way, enough Blaximus flashback. Back on topics at hand.

  77. Get a bit older though, at a stage where you have had plenty of women, then look back and re consider.
    Get beyond sex – which is the only thing they can offer..
    They’re useless .. That’s enlightenment.
    And that’s why older ones can’t consolidate on “commitment”

    Hence my eternal question for this board to guys who have LTR’s?

    There has to be a point, or you guys aren’t rational.

  78. Palma / Archie

    “Get beyond sex – which is the only thing they can offer..

    They’re useless .. That’s enlightenment.

    And that’s why older ones can’t consolidate on “commitment””

    Hence my eternal question for this board to guys who have LTR’s?

    There has to be a point, or you guys aren’t rational.

    Well loop back up into that “femininity” discussion upthread. Women who can offer femininity are always in demand and most often get commitment.

    There is a male use for femininity, which goes beyond sex. So those women aren’t useless. Just getting more rare.

  79. “Hence my eternal question for this board to guys who have LTR’s?

    There has to be a point, or you guys aren’t rational.”

    Well loop back up into that “femininity” discussion upthread. Women who can offer femininity are always in demand and most often get commitment.

    There is a male use for femininity, which goes beyond sex. So those women aren’t useless. Just getting more rare.

    Well said and to the point Sentient.

    Quite a while ago, Sentient also answered the question “Why would a man get married?” with “to get a wife”.

    I would affirm that response. My son in law recently married my daughter for precisely that reason. To get her. She is a valuable asset to his life. So he snatched her up. In order to have her, rather than another woman.

    If a LTR girl keeps her value and your interest, she can possibly be the one you would choose out of any other women in your peripheral vision. And it doesn’t have to get boring with the same girl over and over.

    Sentient also alluded to a wife being an asset that you posses. Because she keeps her value up.

    J. posted up pictures of Savannah Montana, Cindy Crawford and Gabrielle Anwar in the current thread, with the implication that the 53 y.o. and 49 y.o. girls were essentially washed up on the beach and useless. That’s not actually true.

    So LTR’s are valuable when they are valuable. For both rational reasons and other reasons. Think of it this way: You have free will. And your free will chooses that LTR over and over, because she is valuable as a commodity. And doesn’t necessarily lose that value. And it has been shown that after 20 to 30 years, it is less about the Savanna Montanas.

    I see patients for a living. I on occasion see attractive older and post menopausal women (in their underwear). As a rule, they are all in LTR’s. And if not, they are most likely widowed. Why is that? Because some guy still wants them. For the fact they are that and then some.

    Karl Pillemer, the gerontologist who interviewed more than seven hundred older adult Americans, reports that none of them said that they found their spouses unattractive. Not a single old person. And these people were really old. Partly, the gerontologist argues, we imagine that we can’t keep having sex with the same person for decades, because the idea of people older than us having sex just grosses us out, in the way that accidentally walking in on our parents grosses us out. (I learned to knock after doing that just once. The image still burns.) One seventy-seven-year-old who was still having a go with his wife put it this way: “Somehow as you get older, you kind of get blind to the infirmities that affect the other party. And you always see them the way they were. You don’t see aging. It’s a wonderful thing. I don’t know if the brain is wired for that, but that’s the way it is…whatever you’re doing, just keep doing it.”54 –in Marriageology by Belinda Luscombe

    54. Karl Pillemer, 30 Lessons for Loving: Advice from the Wisest Americans on Love, Relationships and Marriage (New York: Avery, 2015), p.181.

    I don’t agree with the old guys statement. There are plenty of assets in the feminine that are ripe for the keeping.

  80. “They’re useless .. That’s enlightenment.” “There has to be a point, or you guys aren’t rational.”

    Use isn’t value. If a dollar’s today is $.97 tomorrow theoretically it can be zero the next day. Does a dollar have permanent value? Answer is no.

    Are women strictly useful and if so, what’s to stop them considering men strictly useful? How does that mentality create sustaining LTR’s?

    Could there be something you choose not to consider about others that makes you seem frivolous and sterile and kinda inconsequential?

  81. Senseless death in three easy steps:

    Declare someone useful.

    Enslaves them.

    Kill them when useless.

    Archie, my man, you’re gonna go far kid!

  82. I see Palma’s point.

    But this discussion always goes south when trying to explain ” women’s value ” to guys that’ve never seen nor considered it.

    Not sure if it’s a function of a string of ( or even one ) bad experience, or just never having had a decent relationship with a woman for whatever reason ( couldn’t be the guys. Naaahhhhh…)

    Palma’s point about the secondhand market sounds more reasonable, especially once one gets past a certain age. But if a guy is 100% satisfied staying single, with babymommas or whatever, then that’s what he should do, while accepting the consequences or Lack thereof for the foreseeable future ( unless you’re certain you’ll die sooner than later ).

    It is rational for any man to do what he is skilled and good at, and that which he has great understanding. Not to trigger wala wala…again… but lot’s of things I’ve done in life has been relentlessly questioned by those that had no interest or skill to do.

    After a while it’s pointless to ” explain “.

  83. @ Blax

    “lot’s of things I’ve done in life has been relentlessly questioned by those that had no interest or skill to do.”

    The peanut gallery is ubiquitous and regenerating.

    Give an example, something big, that no one would believe you did on principle and still don’t understand why you did it.

    I’m legitimately interested.

  84. SJF and EH

    Lol. My rose bushes are having a very hard time because of the insane amounts of rain. I’ve had to trim and dead-head linear feet out of them. Right now they ain’t looking spectacular.

    Eh

    Most of my friends initially don’t understand why I do the things I do. I honestly am a believer that men can do anything they set their minds to.

    Something big?? Oh man, scribbler would throw a giant fit.

    Let’s see, something that wala wouldn’t call ” yesterday man-ish “, lol.

    More recently I grew the meetings we had for young men/youth from it’s initial 50-100 attendees to ( the last one ) 1,500. Some of by best buddies said that younger dudes wouldn’t listen to any guy my age or over 30 years old. I was told judges and lawyers and law enforcement wouldn’t volunteer their time because nobody gave a fuck and that I was just wasting my time.

    Now that I have less free time ( work constraints ), I’m calling out the ” religious ” community to get meaningfully involved. Christian, Jewish and Muslim. No more lip service . I’m told that the religions will never actually work together. We will see about that.

    ” Nobody can do anything about the city “. This from my own sister, and she’s smarter than me, lol.

    https://patch.com/new-jersey/newarknj/crime-dropping-big-time-newark-officials-say

    https://www.wnyc.org/story/newark-crime-rates-continue-drop-its-much-about-perception-reality/

    He said measuring crime is too complicated to take official numbers at face value because police have so much control over record-keeping. That said, Shane said part of what Newark’s leaders are trying to do is shake off the narrative that the city had a crime problem in the first place.

    “Most of the streets in Newark don’t have any crime or any disorder conditions,” he said. “And crime is concentrated in small areas and small places among a certain population of offenders. That’s the reality.”

    While outsiders’ perception might be keeping some visitors away, real estate developers are continuing to trickle into Newark. Jennifer Mazawey, an attorney who works with developers, said they feel Baraka’s administration has been welcoming to them.

    ” you’re gonna get shot!!!”.

    Even though I don’t care for MTV’s VMA’s, they were held in my city, downtown on Monday.

    Small steps man, small consistent steps. There is no such thing as can’t.

  85. “… I might have doxed myself.

    Oh well.

    Lol.”

    Take note Archie, j, The Gimp…

    Blax has more to gain than lose being known. Ask the same about yourselves, ya fruitless idjits.

  86. Eh

    Everybody here knows what city I live in, and kinda what I look like already.

    I’m joking about being doxed because I’m not hard to find if anyone really wanted to.

    The only thing I’d ” lose ” is privacy as I am trying to tie up loose ends and disconnect as I age. I’m trying to hand over the reigns as fast as I can because getting a bit tired. Lol.

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