She’s Not Yours

My colleague and friend, Rian Stone, took it upon himself to breakdown the brilliant simplicity of a common Manosphere idiom:

She was never yours, it was just your turn.

This phrase has been around since the earliest days of the Pickup Artists’ (PUA) online communities. And like many of the old wisdoms of that time the reasoning for it gets distorted by the various factions of what’s become the Manosphere today. In 2020 the more extreme end of MGTOW communities – Black Pill, Doomers, and VolCels – are what most mainstream audiences conflate with Red Pill. What they, along with Success Porn niche marketers, have done is pick and pull the parts of Red Pill praxeology that resonates with their personal beliefs and circumstances and demonize what doesn’t. Both factions have an interest in misconstruing what the Red Pill has taken 20 years to develop. It doesn’t really serve the ends of either perspective to spend too much time thinking about a contentious Red Pill principle when misrepresenting it is more valuable in confirming their belief sets – especially when doing so generates views, subs and ad revenue.

To the Doomer mindset She’s not yours… is confirmation of women’s duplicitous, fickle or evil nature. That’s not to say the nihilistic perspective doesn’t approach women’s nature from an objective Red Pill understanding, it just means they focus on surrendering to it and giving up on women. This confirmation bias also gets mixed up in the Doomer understanding of Hypergamy. Hypergamy resonates with them because it confirms the idea that all women will dump a guy at the first sign of his losing an Alpha Frame veneer; an act which he must constantly maintain in a world of endless options and online attention for women. Slip up once too often and at the first opportunity she’s gone. It’s the fallacy of Hypergamy as a straight jacket, and She’s not yours… justifies the defeatism. You will never find a lasting contentment with a woman because she holds first right of refusal in any intimate relationship (i.e. Briffault’s Law). Ergo, sooner or later your turn will be over and all the effort, time and emotion you invested in her will be for nothing (i.e. Sunk Cost, Relational Equity). In fact, it may be worse than nothing when you consider the opportunity cost of having bothered with trying to make her yours in the first place. While the juice might taste really good in the short term, it’s never really worth the squeeze in the long term. This conclusion is what really upsets the Success gurus because it’s a hard logic to refute – at least from their own Man Up! perspective.

That’s the Doom Pill interpretation. It’s based on reflexive, immutable binary extremes – the default reaction of this generation – because it confirms a hopelessness that defines them. Ironically, it was the very PUAs of the 2000s they despise so much who originally coined the phrase. Back then it served as a reminder to guys to never get too attached to one particular woman while dating several women concurrently. It was almost a mantra to ward off ONEitis because they were spinning plates and “catching feelings” for one girl tended to end up destroying them. It was a maxim that worked best as a preventive medicine since most practitioners of Game saw it as a means to achieve the monogamy their Blue Pill social conditioning convinced them was possible. Average men build lives around serial monogamy; it’s always been the surest way to solve the average man’s reproductive problem. So when you open them up to an abundance of sexual/intimate potential via Game they tend to use it to get their Dream Girl and ignore what the Red Pill says about women’s nature.

In today’s ‘sphere, She was never yours, it was just your turn is a salve for guys who’ve already invested in a woman and she dumped or divorced them. The presumption is that despite all their best Blue Pill qualifications or their Game savvy, Hypergamy gets the best of all women and she’ll move on to the bigger and better deal. This perspective presupposes a stable monogamy, not spinning plates, is the goal-state for every guy. Notice the maxim here is cast in the past tense. She was never yours,…At some stage a man believes she is his (or should be) and she no longer is now. Thus, She was never yours becomes a post-facto rationalization to the guy who’s probably feeling gutted by his breakup. The real issue is the guy’s want for a permanent solution to his desire for intimacy. We see this all the time among simps who spend small fortunes (monthly) to achieve some kind of virtual intimacy with his favorite OnlyFans cam-girl. In this case, She was never yours is reconfirmed for simps over and over as they move from one cam-girl obsession to the next.

For the Success Porn guru, all this is grist for the mill. On one hand, men struggling with confidence (see social skills), achieving intimacy/sex and finding purpose are their bread and butter. On the other hand, what they’re usually selling is the Blue Pill ideal of a sustainable contentment for otherwise discontent men. That contentment includes the hope that a permanent, loving and monogamous relationship with one woman is not only possible, but is also a sign of his authentic manhood. When Dr. Phil sells this hope we write him off as a naive Pollyanna and old order thinker. However, this same Blue Pill hope is repackaged and sold online as a return to masculine virtue by today’s Life Coaches in the Hustle Economy. The permanence of your contentment amounts to your ability to qualify for it and sustain it with their (usually repackaged) concept of masculine virtue. Any discontent on the part of the client is reflective of his own lack of determination or hard work to achieve it. 80’s Televangelists and 90’s Multi-level Marketing hustlers used similar graft. It’s really a monetized version of the philosophy of personal responsibility — which has always been a darling of traditional conservatism and now a staple of personal development. Any failure of the concept is always attributable to the man’s deficient effort and investment, which can then be attached to his character. This isn’t to say that all personal development guys are unscrupulous hustlers, just that the true responsibility of education rests with the student.

She’s not yours, it was just your turn, and other unignorable truths that the Red Pill makes men aware of, defeats the self-reinforcing circular logic of the personal responsibility hustle. It forces the hustler to admit that something outside men’s control might have an effect on a their lives. Rather than accept this and work within the framework, the response is more of the same; deny the phenomenon exists, or presume that even acknowledging it is indicative of a defeatist mentality – thus, a shirking of personal responsibility which completes the circular logic.

This is the origin of the “Truthful Anger” fallacy. Around 2015 the instructors working for Real Social Dynamics (RSD) started getting a lot of questions about the material in The Rational Male from students attending RSD seminars. At some point they had to address these questions, but to do so would mean acknowledging the validity of the concepts in my book – concepts that challenged the positivity grift they were rapidly converting over to during this time. The solution was to acknowledge the truth in my work, but tacitly disqualify it by presuming it came from a place of anger. They then cautioned against internalizing it at the risk of becoming angry or bitter against women — both presumptions commonly used by mainstream gynocentric norms. It was misconstrued as “truthful anger”; poignantly true, but best not to dwell on it if a guy wants to be happy. In other words, would you rather be happy or would you rather be right? Happiness is always easier to sell than truth.

Now that we understand the opposing sides of the impermanence of women debate, we also have to consider the Lie of Individuation that usually gets thrown into the mix to dismiss the She’s not yours maxim. The Individuation Fallacy is most easily understood as:

“People are all individually special cases; each a unique product of their environments and experiences, and are far too individually complex to understand via generalizations according to sex, etc.”

The individual supersedes any commonalities attributable to biology or evolution, and usually focuses solely on social constructionism and personal circumstance as a basis for motivating behavior, developing personality and influencing others accordingly. The supremacy of the individual is the natural extension of an underlying belief in The Blank Slate. When you start from a belief that we’re all functional equals everyone is an angel or a devil according to the choices they made. But depending on the person’s circumstances they can be forgiven or damned for the consequences of those choices according to how we interpret their character as individuals. This is how we get rationales like, not all women are like that and “People are too complex to categorize” to dismiss the unignorable commonalities we see in men and women in the information age. No one likes to think they aren’t in some way unique as much as they don’t like to think determinism has influenced (in some way) what they think makes them unique. And since I’m sure you’ve made this connection already, yes, the Individuation Fallacy dovetails nicely into a doctrine of personal responsibility.

When we read some example of a woman opting out of a relationship (or sex) with one guy to take up with another, the reflexive response is to individualize her behavior according to her individualized circumstances. She’s damaged, she’s got Daddy Issues, she’s insecure because you weren’t Man Enough, etc. — any and every consideration that points away from categorizing her actions as commonalities in women’s innate nature are the reflexive thought process. She’s not yours, it was just your turn defines her actions in a concrete visceral understanding of women’s nature that conflicts with the Blank Slate‘s individualism. In this case the maxim is a description, not a prescription.

Men have an evolved need to know paternity. Unhindered by social strictures or women’s Hypergamous filtering men would opt for unlimited access to unlimited sexuality as our innate and preferred mating strategy. I’ve written a lot about this so I wont belabor it here, but a majority of men, over the course of history, will never be able to actualize this strategy. Ergo, socially enforced monogamy became the best mating strategy compromise for men as modified by the selection pressures of women’s mating strategies. The risk in this compromise is the assurance of paternity. If a man is going to compromise mating opportunities with many women to parentally invest in one woman, the deal must come with one condition: the child must be his genetic stock or the compromise invalidates his existence (evolutionarily speaking). To ensure this men evolved a mental firmware that predisposes us to jealousy, mate guarding and desire to possess a woman. This is why we develop a A Sense of Ownership with our girlfriends, wives and children. The dynamics of Kin Selection and Kin Altruism all find their root in men’s imperative to ascertain their paternity and protect their genetic legacy.

The need to control women’s sexuality is nothing less than men’s evolutionary compulsion to ensure that their compromise in parental investment is not for nothing. In a social order where masculine responsibility to wife and children was balanced with a commensurate masculine authority to enforce those responsibilities, men could nominally control the reproductive process. Part of that process included possessing a woman. This was both an evolutionary imperative and a social imperative.

Every man loves a slut, he just wants her to be his slut.

In today’s gynocentric social order the thought of owning a woman is an affront to the female-primary sensibilities that stem from individuation. Feminism and gynocentrism have conditioned generations of women to believe they are autonomous ‘things‘ with no need for anything outside themselves – least of all men – to find true contentment. They are Strong Independent® women who believe their fulfillment comes from self-ownership. Eschewing a man’s surname in marriage, or even marriage at all, is a sign of independence and stiff middle finger to the idea of passive femininity or notions of ever submitting to a man’s authority. The evolved complementarity between men and women is replaced with the social contrivance of an idealized egalitarianism. Husband and wife is replaced with “Equal Partners“.

For women, the problem with this equalist fantasy is biology and evolved impulse are excused, if not encouraged, in a social order that prioritizes women’s mating strategies. Literally anything goes when the worst consequences of women’s Hypergamy can (enthusiastically) always be attributed to men’s inability to accept them as individuals.

The problem for men is that we still have an innate want to possess a woman to ensure our paternity and invest in our genetic legacies. As mentioned, this desire for permanency with one woman was both an evolutionary imperative and a social imperative in a patriarchal social order. In a gynocentric social order the evolutionary imperative to possess a woman still remains, but the social imperative says…

She was, is, will, never be yours, it was just your turn.

And that is why this maxim rubs so many men the wrong way.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

118 comments on “She’s Not Yours

    1. Although I kind of agree with you philosophically, I could never do it myself and it still feels like ‘buying a trophy’ to me. Relationshits are what they are, but I put in enough effort to be able to get what I want without having to go full retardationship. It’s difficult but stopping short can be done. It is slightly North of what you’re proposing, but not by much…very much like the difference between your average chick and a whore is an aggressive price negotiation.

      The ultimate doompill is the young guys paying for virtual/online stimulation. My god…that’s not even like ‘buying a trophy’, that’s like paying a cover charge to look at the keno outside the strip club and read its yelp review.

    2. @AD

      “it is just not worth investing any effort in relationshits due to their high rate of failure.”

      They don’t have a high rate of failure, but men have a high rate of failing to manage them.

      Escorts are no substitute for desire sex. It’s night and day difference and it’s night and day difference in how the women relate to you.

      It always astonishes me that the public persona of the woman, and the private actions are those of the same women. You couldn’t make up what they’ll do out of true desire.

      That’s the true game.

  1. I think the popular “She’s not yours, it’s just your turn,” saying is a perfect phrase for today’s modern woman. This is a mantra worth repeating to save men of of all varied backgrounds and ages a lot of needless aggravation and wasted time.

  2. We need to update that saying. I propose the following: “She was never yours. It was just your turn to get screwed over.”

    1. “She’s not yours, it’s just your turn,” is already outdated.

      Sayings change with culture shift.
      It used to be ” keep her home barefoot and pregnant”
      then ” you don’t lose your woman, you just lose your turn”
      next “she was virtually mine till my dad took back his credit card”

  3. So what’s a man to do? Whenever I read RM posts and the linked posts( as well as when I read the fist RM book), I feel myself sliding into a doom and gloom mindset.

    I have a lay count of over 40 but actually want a stable relationship instead of more notches on my belt. Is that blue pill idealism, or is it actually possible to have a decent monogamous relationship?

    Any tips for avoiding/getting out of a doom and gloom mindset?

    1. Here is my tip: read the Bible. Believe it. That may be hard; there were times, if I didn’t have supernatural experiences, I would have started to doubt it also. But it is real, and it is more red pill than the red pill itself. Also, the churches have true knowledge mixed with false. They will help you interpret the Bible, but it will be a mixed bag, no matter which church. The best I can recommend is you read the Institutes of Biblical Law, by Rushdoony. Unfortunately, he had an IQ of 180 and it was all he could do to write down to the level of 130 IQ people. If that is unreasonable, just read the Bible and ignore all the Church theology. The Puritans are hated more than the Jews for a reason; they were on the path back to sanity and salvation, and almost everything that has been said about them in the past 150 years is a lie. It is a process. The Bible contains riddles and mysteries starting with the very first two chapters.

    2. The trick is not to look for a long term relationship at all! Women can smell desperation a mile off. Change your thinking so that you enjoy life without any kind of LTR. Only, maybe, then you may come across a woman worth your time. But until you focus on life outside relationships and learn to enjoy life without one, you stand absolutely no chance of ever having one!

    3. “Any tips for avoiding/getting out of a doom and gloom mindset?”

      Have you tried shaping your reality? Working in your frame?

      The Platinum Rule?

    4. @Tim
      Any tips for avoiding/getting out of a doom and gloom mindset?

      Well tell us what you’ve tried so far.

  4. I’ve read all your books, but I am not sure where you were going with this article! Calling out the extremists is fine, but the basic premise is still the same in this day and age, LTR and marriage are a bust for 95% of men today. I have been red-pilled longer than the term has existed, I just understand it better now, but being red-pilled produces different results in different men depending on their experiences. You are lucky to have a successful marriage, although from your own writings, your wife and daughter are still as blue pilled as the rest. Many men (MGTOWers or whatever you want to call them) have just done a mental cost analysis and decided that today’s women are just not worth the effort and having children may do more harm to this planet than not. Being red-pilled involves choices and going MGTOW is a rational choice in this day and age, as much as your own. That you need to understand as well!

    1. Well the important thing is that one gets educated on the subject of man-woman business, as it has always been (except for the effects of enforced rules), and is nowadays.

      Then what is right is something that varies by person, depending on what is the person’s main goal(s).
      You can’t have it all, and need to make choices. Some choices will lead to the MGTOW option in a rational way.
      However, they must be true choices. If the MGTOW option is chosen due to being dispirited, or feeling “losers”, it’ll be unhealthy.

      Personally, there’s nothing I need, or that may improve my well-being, let alone good mood, in a “romantic” relationship with a woman. But if I had said this without having had my couple of gfs, I wouldn’t have said this sincerely, and it would have been unhealthy.

  5. “the child must be his genetic stock or the compromise invalidates his existence”

    Telegony (the belief in shared paternity with previous male mates) is officially Hocus Pocus but was widely accepted by the top 19th century biologists including Darwin. The most infamous example was the hypospadian man (see paper by YS Liu). Women wouldn’t want their babies switched at birth so men don’t want to be cuckholded even if it’s microcuckoldry. AF/BB may be even more literal/common than we currently assume.

    Google “Telegony, the Sire Effect and non-Mendelian Inheritance Mediated by Spermatozoa:
    A Historical Overview and Modern Mechanistic Speculations” (look for the full pdf.). Also, see “Double Stranded RNA in Human Seminal Plasma” which was peer reviewed by U.S., Japanese and Russian scientists.

      1. “Telegony Is not what Rollo wrote about.”

        Yes, who said it was?

        He’s making the point that a man has a strong interest in making sure children are his genetic stock – thus men’s possessiveness towards women. If paternity can be shared, then that’s relevant to his post. Note it’s speculative science.

        1. Yes, who said it was?

          Looks like you implied it. Why did you bring it up at all?

          He’s making the point that a man has a strong interest in making sure children are his genetic stock – thus men’s possessiveness towards women.

          Easily found in previous essays, a feature of evo-psych.

          If paternity can be shared


          then that’s relevant to his post.

          It’s not relevant. So why did you bring it up? Any particular reason, some point you are attempting to make, or maybe just trolling?

          1. “Looks like you implied it.”

            Not even close. Related sidebar topics occur on internet comment threads all the time.

            “Why did you bring it up at all?”

            Why not? It’s an interesting topic. Why did it strike a nerve with you? Otherwise you would have just ignored my comment which will be one of hundreds.

            “Easily found in previous essays, a feature of evo-psych.”

            Yes, all the themes in this post have been featured in previous essays. So don’t discuss those either?


            I suggested two scientific papers (one peer reviewed-I couldn’t get the links to post) that offer SPECULATIVE mechanisms for observations that seem to defy explanation by Mendelian genetics. There are many more well documented cases than looking at Wikipedia would suggest. I defer to those scientists over an anonymous internet commenter who can spell “not.”

            “It’s not relevant. So why did you bring it up? Any particular reason, some point you are attempting to make, or maybe just trolling?”

            It’s revelvant to men’s evo-psyche. Any particular reason you are bothered by it enough to waste your time engaging with me? You could have just ignored the comment.

          2. What you boys are missing isn’t the guarantee of paternity for genetics rather the possibility of provisioning your enemies children. This is an existential fear.

  6. In all that I got a bit lost. What, exactly, does Rollo think it means, among all those things it apparently doesn’t? Judging by the couple dozen comments before me here, I’m not the only one who doesn’t know.

    Watching the conversation about this unfold on Twitter and YouTube, I saw someone ask what women’s reactions were when the sexes were switched in the saying. Or suggesting someone should try it, I don’t remember. You’d have to do it without any reference to the original, to get a true reading.

    But I’d like to see it.

  7. Spent the last 6 months focusing on school work and some industry certifications I wanted to complete.
    Between day work, classes and hobbies (gym, motorcycles, fishing), not much time for gaming women.

    Now getting ready to head back out onto the field in earnest with the fellas.
    This post is a timely reminder, because I’m one of those guys who exclusively matches up with petite, extremely feminine, cute girly girls. Not big into the competitive, ball buster, feminist types.
    So I’m also prone to “catch feels”, which seems to come with the territory of cavorting with petite girls, in my experience. Not sure what to expect yet, given the COVID-19 theater going on. Wish me luck.

    I’m wondering what is the equivalent maxim to “She’s not yours, it’s just your turn” for women?

    Because hypergamy is not a straight jacket, seems to me that women too, no matter what they actually do, no matter what “relationship equity” they think they have accumulated with you, can really struggle to keep her mustang in the corral. Especially now with her competitors are always running a sales on pussy and blowjobs.
    Marriage is ZERO insulation from this threat for wives.

    So seems to me they too can say shit like “I devoted my entire life to him, gave him my best, gave him children and a family, and he still walked/cheated”.

    What Rollo said once when he was contemplating marriage sticks with me:

    “Is this a woman I can remain faithful to?”

    A very good question for every man, and on some level I’ve frequently asked myself the same.

    But I just doubt such a question would ever even occur to a woman today, because of the “you go girl”, high notch counts, “men ain’t shit!” and open hypergamy.

    1. “I’m wondering what is the equivalent maxim to “She’s not yours, it’s just your turn” for women?”


      “Is he the best I can get?”

      They repeat this on an endless loop in a subroutine in their hindbrain.

      Don’t get mixed up between “keeping her mustang in coral” and marriage. It’s two different things.

      Keeping hold of an AF where there is genuine desire is not the same as making a marriage “work”.

      As a young man you don’t need luck, you need game. Heartiste has published an incredible book on game that is probably about the best one stop shop on that.

      Outside of that your biggest risk is “catching feels” – that’ll lead you to irrational damaging behaviour like putting her on a pedestal / oneitis etc. The thing to recognise is that’s just a chemical reaction designed to “bond” you to the woman for a couple of years.

      Good luck and don’t be a stranger – check in from time to time if you want to talk shit through.

    2. @MFriedrich2012 listen to Palma, he talks truth!

      Rollo gives you the knowledge (or education if you want so), the community here gives you the time to time kick in the butt that so many of us need.

      Sadly, the field reports section doesn’t work as good as it did half a year ago, yet it is still worth gold and diamonds.

    3. Depends on the man; some men, due to knowing Game, will always have women throwing themselves at them, and their main woman is always going to have to work to keep them. The AFC on the other hand, who generally struggles to get one woman to stick around long enough to break him off a piece, is far more likely to be taken for granted and eventually cheated on and dumped.

    4. The question of a man being faithful to one woman is in itself a socially enforced norm. It is a compromise that was designed to ensure the cooperation of leaders (Alphas) and lower value men of varying degrees. In as much as Hypergamy is a woman’s nature, it is only successful if men as a collective go along with it. If the majority of men would honor marriage and refuse to engage in a relationships with women married or in LTRs the worst of women’s branch swinging would be negated. Sadly today it never even ocours to most men to honor relationship boundaries. Granted it goes against instinct, but it was once an accepted compromise that as almost universally accepted.

  8. Not a native speaker so bare with me. On topic now. If she isn’t yours, then you aren’t hers. It goes either way. Invest in something that you have control over, and that is yourself. The divorce is the best thing that happened in my life. She destroyed the family, took away the kid and moved miles away, and it was supposed to be my fault. Not anymore. It took me a while to catch-up, but now everything is going for the better. Yes, I was that guy who would shallow the bullet, cause she destroyed everything that I have invested in all these years and I had no options left. Little by little, she managed to cut me off from everyone and everything, sports and interests, family and friends, since nobody and nothing was good enough for me except for her own people. It was my kid, he was 3 years old back then, that confirmed to me that his mother was going to marry a rich person now. Was it my turn? It doesn’t matter anymore. Back then, I could see myself enduring all that crap for my kid. Not anymore. There is no going back now. It was the red-pill that opened my eyes wide. Thank u everyone. Going for the good life now! FREEDOM!!!

    1. Huh, same here @Thunderjohn. Biggest thing I’ve learned in the red-pill world is leading with the women in your life, and setting boundaries. I didn’t with my son’s mother, and she attempted to do all the things that happened to you.

      And yes, she just married someone with a high-paying job,

      Great to hear of your freedom, make the most of it! Four years on and still enjoying mine.

      What I’ve come to realize is that I am at my best with any woman when I’m free to do whatever I want when I’m not with her, especially connecting and having sex with other women. It’s just great. My son, my worthy career, and connecting with women wi/o fettering myself to one.

      Thanks for the reminder of what many of us have gone through. Let’s make the most of our lives for us, and invite others we want along when it feels best to us.

  9. stuffinbox
    OCTOBER 17, 2020 AT 6:03 AM
    What you boys are missing isn’t the guarantee of paternity for genetics rather the possibility of provisioning your enemies children. This is an existential fear.

    Yes @stuffinbox, yet it seems pretty obvious to me that nowadays the women/mothers themselves are way too often the main enemies; to the relationship, to the father, to their own children’s healthy development.

    1. Just Beers,” yet it seems pretty obvious to me that nowadays the women/mothers themselves are way too often the main enemies; to the relationship, to the father, to their own children’s healthy development.”

      That’s what we get when they let women off the chain w/ you go girl , strong independent woman , believe the woman , patriarchal oppression etc….. Mix that all with female nature emotionalism , solipsism , hypergamy and you get the enemy of the family.

      Good to know what happened plan accordingly and do the next right thing. Just remember you can’t fix stupid.

  10. @Just Beers

    Yes @stuffinbox, yet it seems pretty obvious to me that nowadays the women/mothers themselves are way too often the main enemies; to the relationship, to the father, to their own children’s healthy development.

    true… and every one of those^^^ situs was some type of sh*t test (fitness test)…

    with the girl spinning it out at an unconscious level… based on her ‘feelz’… which was/is her hindbrain trying to solve a problem… which is usually AF or BB in nature…

    and after those men fail to spot those fitness tests and/or address them in an appropriate RP manner, the situ spins up into a guard dog situ…

    (for the newbies/refresher – how do you make a guard dog?… you push her a little, then she reacts… and you let her win… next time you push her a little harder… she reacts… and you let her win… eventually, at the end of the process, you can break a bat over her head and she will still rip your arm off…)

    it’s the same with girls v shit tests… eventually, if you fail your way to disaster… you end up trying to see your kids a couple times a year… and paying for everything… including the new bf…

    or worse, you end up bleeding out on the kitchen floor with a knife stuck into you…

    that’s why @Rollo’s books/concepts are so important to men everywhere… it’s not just about how to get laid…lol

    good luck!

    1. @HABD absolutely agree, re: failing fitness/shit/comfort tests. I’m no stranger to that.

      I lucked out (really luck) because the only thing I failed badly was comfort tests. Never learning how to speak cat, refusing too, and tried making her hear my dog (making? Haha) saved me a bit when she (completely and naturally) went south, because she knew I was never going to be separated from my son.

      Now she wants to keep the peace. I do too, for everyone’s sake.

      My son is still young, many years to go, but Rollo’s work has been invaluable in understanding what women are, at base. It makes dealing with my ex much better. It also is invaluable in understanding what happened to get here, and not repeat it.

      I used to blame women. Then I blamed myself. Now, it’s no blame, just Gaining understanding and rooting out my own ignorance of female nature, my own nature. And applying it.

      Thanks for your continued contribution @HABD

      And to you as well @Rollo

      Good luck indeed!

      1. @Just Beers

        props on your turnaround!…

        been thinking about this a little more…

        i think the basic issue is that men’s firmware is not set up to deal with division/attack from within the ‘team’… so when girls throw those sh*t tests around, men are not set up through their evo/bio psych to make a firmware response that benefits them… or the girls…

        when you are in your group and hunting that wooly mammoth or driving those buffalo over the cliff or fighting for your survival against those other dudes over there that want to kill you and take your girls… you can’t have any doubts about whether or not your team member has your back… that’s why the concept of ‘traitor’ has such a huge punishment (death)… bc you can’t defend against it… men’s firmware has developed to leverage that trust for survival…

        when the culture has strict divisions between men and girls (hunting groups v women’s circle) (= operating system that allows the firmware to work properly), this is generally not an issue bc men don’t expect that girls will be anything but girls… meaning you don’t put your trust into them just bc they are on your ‘team’ (structural position/trust)… even though they are part of your tribe…

        but with the Egalitarian Equalosity(tm) that has been socially conditioned into men (software), those girls are now occupying those trusted (structural) positions in your team… and men see those sh*t tests as attacks from within the team (which they are)… and also from outside the team… as girls try to work their way into male spaces (as a way to position themselves for repro advantage for themselves…lol)…

        this process generally ends up destroying the ‘team’ (as well as the tribe)…through disruption of trust and increased costs to societal interactions… and which results in the social atomization and isolation of men that we see in society today…

        @Rollo’s work allows men to understand that dynamic and use a software patch to fix that software (social conditioning) issue…

        good luck!

      2. I used to blame women. Then I blamed myself. Now, it’s no blame, just Gaining understanding and rooting out my own ignorance of female nature, my own nature. And applying it.

        There you go. Don’t blame the cat for deciding to claw the couch, cats gonna claw. Get a scratching post.

  11. What if “she” has her “husbands” inmate number tattooed on the back of her neck? Whose is she? Asking for a friend

    1. @Sentient

      Ahhhh right. Well she’s a proper alpha widow and she’s gonna be torn between needing to get banged out super hard by AF and trying to box your ahem.. friend into BB.

      He’ll have to amp up the AF asshole hard. Just my gut feeling is he’ll have to amp it up very much more than usual to almost “abuse” levels.

      The forebrain may be “fed up” with him / her life / the moon landings while he’s inside.

      But your friend needs to look at how long before the “husband” gets out. He doesn’t want a “let’s you and him fight situ” and the arsehole appears on his porch.

      Should be containable with tight enough game but it’s a high stake hand to play.

      1. Palma

        Too high indeed. “Gang related” means long reach even if the “owner” ain’t never getting out.

        Though the challenge is quite tempting…

        Can guys on this thread really grasp a “ride or die” girl and its implications?

        1. @Sentient

          So I’ve not dealt with a ride or die girl on the American sense but the nearest I got was the girlfriend of a scaffolder, and here in the U.K. scaffolders are all nuts. Coked up daytimes and coked up and boxed up evenings.

          So she stole his lorry at some stupid hour like 4AM and drove it over out of her head on every combo of drink and drugs you can imagine. She parked the fuckin thing outside my house in a small english residential street. That means it almost blocked the damn street and everyone knew. One of these things:

          Anyway she jumped me and we banged all night and it got proper seriously stupid with him. She told him she’d fucked me “just to wind him up” and yeah.. that worked in every way – “punishing her” and wanting to do a lot worse to me.

          It’ll be a personal growth experience if you choose to go there that’s for sure

          1. Palma

            😆 that truck…!

            Yeah tempting to try my game but not happening.

            You can’t trust a ride or die, the answer is she’s his, unless you TAKE her away…

  12. @sentient..

    That truck was for real.. but you gotta remember – someone is banging her while he’s inside.

    And my money – he’s badder than the guy inside.

    1. @sentient

      “And my money – he’s badder than the guy inside.”

      Maybe not badder but still pretty bad.

      Reminds me of a gall i banged from behind in his (The alpha con) kitchen early one morning while another was banging on the door behind me.

      She had some nice dimples and a tat on her backside.

      When they first locked up her old man she came into my shop with her pants unbuttoned and zipped down showing her panties. No way was she doing without for years.

    2. You guys sure got funny truck out there on the island…

      Responding to Sentient’s remark: ” unless you TAKE her away”

      God, why would you want to take away someone’s else’s ride-or-die bitch.
      Plenty of other fishies out there. Who needs damaged goods

    1. Paging Jack Donovan… 😆

      Actually this guy is pretty nondescript 6 foot 200. Except for the prison tats, non designer ink.

  13. “In prison, size matters. It’s a violent environment, and size can often be a matter of life and death. Bullying goes on, fights happen, rapes take place and inmates murder inmates. The smaller an inmate is, the more vulnerable that inmate is to violence. Inmates’ survival is associated with lifting weights, getting big and getting strong.

    Inmates manage to get fit despite not having full fitness gyms in jail. Whether it’s in the rec yard or within a cell, inmates lift weights. Depending on the facility, there is weightlifting equipment for inmates such as dumbbells, barbells and a bench. Inmates also get creative and fill 2-liter bottles with water or use a bucket of wet towels for curls. Inmates’ weightlifting training consists of powerlifting and strength workout.

    Strength-training exercises involve body weight, weight machines, resistance bands and free weights. Strength-training is ideal for inmates because it strengthens bones and muscles, and it builds muscle mass. In jailhouse, size often projects fear. Inmates tend to lift heavy weights and do push ups for an intimidating, hulking image – big arms and a massive chest. Since powerlifting involves lifting the most amount of weight, the reps aren’t as high as strength-training exercises, which use at least eight reps.”

  14. based and redpilled

    PS: Obligatory “I really miss your blog posts Rollo.” I really do. I really tried to listen to the podcasts but it’s just not the same.

    Looking forward to the 4th book man!

  15. Reverse that phrase and you have a Red Pilled way of breaking up with a girl:

    “I was never yours, it was just your turn…bye”

  16. What is surprising is the high rate of DNA tests that prove paternity by the husband. It’s more ego-satisfying to blame women, but they aren’t the problem. Why are so many men failures in relationships?

    If men are trying to be women while wanting women, how will they ever appeal to women for very long? If you’re a girly man, you will only get your turn until you disgust the girl enough, when she will dump you. Some men don’t get dumped. Imitate them.

    Up with masculinity and self-improvement.

  17. The Reddit Manosphere Appendix of Acronyms in the blogroll is under quarantine because “It is dedicated to shocking or highly offensive content.” E-mail verification is required for access.

  18. “She was, is, will, never be yours, it was just your turn.”

    Sans children I have no problem as long as I ONLY pay for services rendered and no more, and when we are done, I owe her nothing.

    The problem with this statement is that in the modern world it also applies to my children. THAT is a statement that I will NEVER accept.

    The distant past before patriarchy was harems. Multiple women sharing one top male. Like any primitive, tournament mating species. With patriarchy came the compromise of enforced monogamy. We appear to be moving towards polyandry with one woman, possibly mating with several men simultaneously, but most importantly being financially supported by multiple men simultaneously (usually via child support). This is state-sponsored slavery for men and I want no part of it.

    I’m afraid men will need more than frame and game going forward.

  19. @M

    “76% rate of failure buddy”

    Possible – I haven’t checked the stats recently – but it’s the man with the responsibility to manage that. And manage the woman so that her genuine desire is maintained.

    “Ask yourself: Would you buy a tire that’s known to fail at 76% within the year ? (sure, relationships don’t fail like that within a year, they do it within a 10-year mark).”

    All tyres will fail almost instantly if they’re not inflated and maintained properly. Again it’s usually the mans responsibility to do that.

    “Marriage is simply NOT worth it for any sensible man.”

    Probably not but that doesn’t change the situation where a lot of men are in them with kids and the best thing to do is turn them round rather than torch them because you don’t want to get buttfucked in court and lose your kids.

    “Onto the article, Rollo is really not adding anything of value here. Sorry, Rollo.”

    You think not?

    “By coining this old phase we’re [again] wrongfully putting the cart on the wrong horse: women.”

    He’s approaching it from a direction that is understandable by blue pill chumps that have been brainwashed by the FI

    “I like to say “You’re not hers, it’s just her turn.” “

    Of course you do – now. But when did you come up with that idea? Show your working.

    “Notice the difference ? Your doing, your horse, your terms. Your life.”

    Yep. That’s what @Rollo has been saying in his vast volume of work since the outset.

  20. Wow sad to see how inactive this great blog has become.

    I guess it’s partly down to the fact that rollo has pretty much covered all the important details of sexual dynamics and relationships, how women work etc…. but part of me thinks it’s also down to him taking so much time out to do his “red pill and religion book “ and that’s a shame because nobody needs that shit in their lives, totally unnecessary guide to keeping your imaginary god happy while you live a red pill life 😂😂 I mean wtf?

    1. Rollo’s reaching more men nowadays with podcasts. Younger men aren’t as likely to read blogs, more likely to stream or download. Could be that the implosion of Heartiste had an indirect effect as well.

      Certainly the buttload of trolls and bots that dropped in a year or two ago didn’t help.

    2. Settle down Francis. Book 4 is almost on Amazon. Once I’m done I’ll be hammering away here again.

  21. “It forces the hustler to admit that something outside men’s control might have an effect on a their lives. Rather than accept this and work within the framework, the response is more of the same; deny the phenomenon exists, or presume that even acknowledging it is indicative of a defeatist mentality – thus, a shirking of personal responsibility which completes the circular logic.”

    And there’s the mic drop. This is TRM in a nutshell. I wish everyone would understand this.

    So much success/hustle porn aimed at men these days: “You know why you can’t keep a girl? You know why she left you? You know why she cheated? Because you’re weak. Because you didn’t hold frame. Because _________.”

    The inherent message seems motivational and positive, and there’s the rub. In reality, it willfully ignores this very real “something outside men’s control [that] might have an effect on their lives.”

    It claims “all women want an Alpha male” and sells men on the idea that they too can become an Alpha male, and so fulfill their Blue Pill fantasy of having 100% ride-or-die devotion from their dream girl and live happily ever after.

    It actually just regurgitates the original issue: men thinking too logically and not understanding how to read between the lines with women. The “Alpha up” message is simply an appeal to men’s innate logic: if I do “A” (become Alpha) then I’ll get “B” (ride-or-die devotion from dream girl who will never cheat and never leave).

    And so they end up back at square one in the Matrix, except now having the delusion that they’ve broken out of the Matrix.

    Don’t fall for it.

    1. Yes, I’ve auctioned the most important thing which is not giving a fuck about what other people think I’m supposed to be doing with my life

  22. This was wonderful. I really miss Rollo’s articles when there is a gap between updates. This is concise and potent in a way that a three-hour podcast cannot match.

    My takeaway is that “socially enforced monogamy became the best mating strategy compromise for men as modified by the selection pressures of women’s mating strategies”. The gynocentric social order is essentially women reneging on their end of that compromise. The sad part is that it’s not recognized for what it is, that it is the best agreement given all of the forces involved. For women to view conventional relationships as a tool of the patriarchy for constraint and oppression invalidates this. Maybe we should go back to men clubbing each other with stone tools for the conquest of other tribe’s women…

    It is at this point, the feminist invalidation of the monogamy compromise that monogamy itself becomes an unconscionable social contract. Spinning plates is setting the pendulum back in the right direction. This is the new order thinking.

  23. Use concubines gentlemen, aka sugar babies if you are in your late twenties and thirties. They are cheaper, younger, eventually they develop some feelings and will fuck your brains out even if you don´t pay them. Actually, they will start asking for you to stop paying them when they develop those feelings.

    Focus on your properties and businesses, expand them, the time will come in your late thirties when you can pick la creme de la creme in this world. As Rollo said, enlightened self-interest first and foremost. Initiative and action in all your endeavours is a must. You won´t have to worry about all of these themes related to women. Women will not be one of your concerns, vaginas will flow to you in an endlessly stream, you will see that vaginas are just another commodity in your life . They are in this world only for your satisfaction. They are just animals for your amusement.

    1. eventually they develop some feelings and will fuck your brains out even if you don´t pay them.

      If you have enough game to convert a sugar baby, you have enough game not to start off paying them in the first place.

      Get over your approach anxiety and lose your BP beta bux conditioning.

      Else how do you expect this to happen?

      the time will come in your late thirties when you can pick la creme de la creme in this world.

      Beard oil? Lol

      Go read dream girls.

    1. @Pinolero, Rollo is doing a lot of videos now, young men are more easily reached that way and via podcasts. . He is still on Twatter. No idea about FB as I have never messed with that platform. He’s also finishing up a 4th book, that is time consuming.

  24. “Lady Mandalorian’s (sic) have boob armour? Oh come on seriously.” –Anita Sarkeesian

    Oh come on, Anita; we both know damned well that if boob armor weren’t a standard, off the rack item for female martial artists you’d be screaming patriarchal oppression of women’s body types. Oh, and by the way, “Lady” was cancelled way back in the 60’s. That’s why most restrooms are now labeled “Men” and “Women,” instead of “Ladies” and “Gentleman” as they used to be. Check your political correctness.

  25. Women have no agency. They think with their poosy. That’s just being objective. No feminist can deny this.

  26. A few years ago the book “Slow Sex” came out. I read it and didn’t find anything new, but a lot of emotion and fluff. The main idea was “orgasmic meditation” where a woman has her clitoris strummed for a period of time, like 15 minutes, but no sex, nossir.

    So having read the book and found it “meh” I ignored Daedone & etc. I missed out on some lolz, apparently. Because she went a lot further with that. Not quite Amway MLM, but in that direction.

    At one point in the episode Tavakoli-Far records Chris Hubbard, OneTaste’s former chief technology officer, and his wife Beth demonstrating orgasmic meditation, also known as ‘OMing’, at their home in California, including the sound of Beth climaxing.

    OneTaste repackaged the concept and sold it to customers in expensive sessions.

    As of 2018, students were paying $499 for a weekend course, $4,000 for a retreat, $12,000 for a spot in the coaching program, and $16,000 for intensives, with an all-inclusive option also offered for $60,000. Group classes involve dozens of women, naked from the waist down, having their clitorises stroked at the same time.

    Well, that’s one way to monetize things. However it’s no surprise that it didn’t work out in the longer run.

  27. Need advice on one out of the 4 plates i’m spinning (confused as hell)

    Been fucking this girl for well over a year now. She goes to Miami a week ago, and this past weekend she facetimed me wanting to catch up. On the call she asks how my saturday night was. Tell her it was fun w/ friends out. She asks me if i got with anyone. I tell her it doesn’t matter, and say no. She says she’s suprised such an attractive guy like myself didn’t get with any girls last night. Then, she then tells me how her night was wild, she and her friends got dinner and this random group of guys near them starting hanging with them, and after the dinner they all went back to the friend she was staying with, her apartment. Then she shows me all these hickeys she had on her neck (looked like she literally got pounded out so hard) and told me she made out with this one guy out of that group and started to tell me he’s a college basketball player and telling me what he was doing tomorrow (idgaf abt this idk why she even said this). I just say “oh you definitely fucked last night (with a little laugh)”. She giggles immediately and laughs, and then asks why would you think that?? I just tell her it looks like the obvious thing. She says “we only made out I swear” , I don’t fuck randoms like that. I was like “thats cool doesn’t matter to me if you did or didn’t (laughing again), have a great weekend, glad you had fun”. She then asks me ” don’t you care when i’m coming back?” I responded with “it doesn’t really matter to me”. Convo over. Later that same night she sends me like 4 snapchat pictures of the beach, and then posts one snapchat story later that night of her with two guys at a restaurant. Look the pussy on this plate is amazing and I want to keep it, but i’m just confused as to how I should be proceeding? I do not want to make some blue pill mistake, because I think in this spot there is some major edge for me if I make the right move. Advice please, cool with criticism.

  28. Just watched the video at the top “ what do you treat better, a car you own or a car you rent? “.
    Women have chosen to be rentals, treat them accordingly!

    1. $8.99 for that rag? Good thing there’s no price inflation in the current economy.

      PS: Not sure if the drink in her cocktail glass is correct, unless that’s intended to be a Manhattan. Then it is indeed perfect.

  29. Remember when the biggest thing in the news was the billionaire owner of the New England football team got busted in Florida for a handy in a massage joint? The final chapter in the Robert Kraft saga may finally have arrived. The cops and DA will have their chunk of meat out of someone. If not Kraft, then someone else…

  30. Relating to Rollo’s Twitter feed:

    If you go to therapy instead of building a cabin, how is the cabin supposed to get built?
    If you have a cabin, why would you need to go to therapy?

  31. Rollo

    Well here is a first. In the seven or so years reading this blog I’ve never, ever heard anyone in “normie” world mention it.

    Until yesterday.

    Sitting at an outside table, a couple tables over there is a family of three. Dad, late 50s, good shape, cool dad glasses on, mom , pleasant enough but looked 65… and what was obviously a freshman son home from college. Standard UMC variety, tall, lean, lots of hair lol, talkative.

    Mom goes to the restroom and dad and son are talking and son is making some point and mentions “Rational Male”. Dad says something like “yeah I like that guy” and goes on and mentions some other guy who’s name I didn’t get. But they are deeply discussing some things and then mom comes back and its over. Both were energetic and looked happy.

    1. @Sentient

      Hoping more of ye olde tymers crank it back up in 2021

      Yeah.. also perhaps @Rollo could issue a few presidential pardons now things have calmed down. Might tick things up a bit.

      Happy Xmas boys..

  32. divine timing – have been getting really in touch with the Bible & Plato lately. I came on here to ask you what your thoughts are on fornication. it’s pretty much the only way I have been sinning for a while now. my overall conclusion is God would hate pretty much everybody in modern day society, he would just hate me way less. God’s best problem child. Just bought your new book on Amazon looking forward to getting it. Wish it was on kindle but all good! Hope to hear your thoughts on fornication!

    1. Fornication’s dictionary definition means “sex outside of marriage”.

      That said, things get tricky because the pre-religious concept of marriage (man’s ownership of women and children), clashes with the Jesus concept of marriage (sex leading to children).

      The Jesus interpretation is often maligned. In teachings on divorce, Jesus mentions that man and woman become “one flesh”. Most Christians interpret this to be reaffirming of the pre-religious concept of man owning women, and men and women being the “one flesh” that cannot be separated.
      However a careful read of Jesus’ words is that his statement means something else entirely. The “one flesh” clearly refers to children! Jesus starts out explaining that God made it normal for men and women to hook up – and how can man separate what God has joined together? And for what other purpose of men and women to hook up if children are not part of the equation?

      Indeed, how can children been made to vanish after a divorce? …and that was his point about there really being no possibility of divorce, but the crappy legal ownership interpretation being made acceptable because most people are idiots and still — to this day — never understood where Jesus was coming from.

      Back to the original question – you could argue that sex that doesn’t lead to children is fornication. Gay sex, same-sex marriage, and even sex with the pull-out method or condoms would then fall afoul of fornication – by that definition.

      This is – in fact – something that I agree with. Men have no need to marry but should expand their sexual encounters – without condoms. This is where 30 day tourist visas come in handy (usually takes a woman about a month to realise she’s pregnant before you have left the country – and then she has no legal recourse)

      1. The current archaeological record of religion dates back to circa 40,000 years. Christianity equals religion, but religion does not equal Christianity. Both the Athenian and Roman republics were religious, both predated Christianity and both practiced legal patriarchy.

        And then, of course, there were the Jews, who invented Christianity out of sectarian conflict with the temple cult.

      2. So, in other words, God approves of men’s innate mating strategy – unlimited access to unlimited sexuality – so long as that guy busts a nut inside the plates he’s spinning.

  33. Brothers, I am a new one here. And probably the youngest one. I’m 19. Just found this blog couple months ago. I think I’ve internalized the basic concept of Red Pill.
    I wanna start learning Game. I am totally new to this topic.
    Where do I start?
    Maybe some books or blogs anyone can recommend??

    1. “Where do I start?”

      Go to the header and click on Field Reports. Make your inquiries there.

  34. Quick background, I recently got out of prison 7 months and and and I started to hook up/date this girl I met at work. We were pretty much were progressing into a couple but she chose this other guy. Im an escort and have slept with many beautiful woman; I’m good in bed, not bragging. I have a dominant frame but I’ve never been in this situation before so I hope you guys can shed some perspective and wisdom.

    So I met this girl at work, she came on to me( she’s a 6 at best, 7 with personality). I didn’t sleep with her right away, but we ended up hooking up after a week. We talked about our pasts, who we are, what were looking for. I told her I was an escort and she knew I’m promiscuous. She didn’t seem turned off by it, she was actually into, so she this going in.

    Further along we begin hooking up for about 2 weeks, and I end up learning about a guy she considers her “boyfriend” whom she’s been talking to for 3 years, so she’s emotionally invested in him. However, they never hooked up and she said it was because she felt that having sex would ruin their relationship. So he was in the picture, but we had been hooking up and things started to become a little bit more serious and progressed into a relationship/couple.

    A month later, we’re still hooking up and we’re pretty much acting like a couple, I’m staying at her place and we did pretty much everything together. The sex was great; I satisfied her every night.

    Then one day, she tells me she’s gonna drop me off at my place because she’s gonna take her kids shopping but her behavior and vibe said different. I’m not naive and I’ve been in her place many times so I didn’t say anything overtly or act jealous, I just let her go. I knew she was gonna see someone.

    Then, she doesn’t text me for days and she ends up telling me she spent the weekend out of town with her “boyfriend” and she was gonna spend the week at his house. Apparently the sex was amazing( she said that everything they had been holding back, they finally showed each other and he even asked her to move in with him). I understand that when feelings are involved, the sex is always better. Also, the whole time she was with him, she was texting me and telling me that she misses me, misses hooking up with me, misses the way i fucked her, told me I’m fine af, I did everything perfect, but that she can’t sleep with two guys at the same time and that she honestly loves this guy and she likes where things are going with him and doesn’t want to fuck it up. She told me she wants to see me again and wants to hook up again but she won’t hang out with me. She also said she genuinely got attached to me and fell for me, but she just didn’t know where it was going and what to make of it since she was talking to someone(even we were pretty much a couple at that point, I even met her whole family).

    So my questions are: Did she or does she have genuinely feelings for me? Do you think she saw us as a couple? Would she have stayed with me? Also, if she said she didn’t want to hook up with him, why did she? And why did she ghost me or leave me for the other guy? She said that him having more money wasn’t a factor but it definitely helps(I understand). I’ve been reading posts on this site for many years so I’m aware of game, rules, and conventions but it’s been so awhile and i just wanted to get an objective perspective and honest opinion on the situation.

    Of course, I can answer any questions regarding details and I’ll fill in any gaps to get better perspective on the situation. I just want some honest help. Please be brutally honest. Thank you guys, you’re all the best.


    1. From one ex-escort to another….

      For men, we can just continue enjoying sex with women and say that we have a good relationship, but for women
      sex is generally speaking not an end-goal in itself… but rather part of an overall agenda of either:
      (1) producing offspring
      (2) acquiring emotionally invested men to help her raise her children with (while not neccesarily being the biological father)

      It’s the classic love triangle of being either the man that gets her pregnant, or the man who raises her kids.

      If it’s number one, she’s just happy to jump your body and then disappear. In this case she treats sex a bit like taking a dump in the bathroom. It’s a biological drive that’s gotta be done, and it feels great when it’s over, but it’s dirty and shameful to her – not something she relishes in.
      If it’s number two, she’ll continue riding you like in a rodeo and let you do whatever you want to her sexually in the hope that she’ll get pregnant, you’ll get married, raise kids together, and do all that fun family stuff that you left behind when you left home as an adult – and likely have no desire to return to. Ever.

      So she probably did have feelings for you – but when number (1) wasn’t happening because you were being careful and sensible with contraception (or just pulling out), and clearly (2) wasn’t going to happen because you were honest about your promiscuity… then her only rational plan of action is to find that other male where both can happen. This is simply the female agenda. Their feelings for you change based on your utility to her – just as they do for a smart man who is treating women as rationally as possible based on their utility to him.

      Yeah it sucks, but as a man who wishes to remain single you should simply avoid relationships. Period.
      Have great sex, but then move on to other green pastures.

      Either you have to give them what they want and knock them up (but have an escape plan, involving a passport), OR do number #2 – and marry them and enjoy the happiness of being together with them…. forever.. and raise kids with them and do all that family fun stuff. It it seems like that could be enjoyable to you…. don’t forget to factor in your loss of personal freedom and finances…. and then experience dealing with a kid who wakes you up in the middle of the night and won’t do what you want anyway… and then it sucks.

      1. Thank you this helped a lot.  It really gave me clarity.

        Also, she has kids, she can’t have anymore(tubes tied); she doesn’t want anymore(so she said); everytime we had sex we fucked raw and I came inside her everytime; she was very submissive and slutty in bed(would give me head as long as it took for me to nut; would deepthroat, gag, wanted me to slap it on her face, would cum and squirt all over my hand and immediately put my fingers in her mouth,pull her hair, choke her, bite her); pretty much let me do anything I wanted to do to her in bed, a lot she would initiate on her own; she wanted people to know she was fucking me.

        I don’t know if this changes anything but would do you think?

        1. It doesn’t change much, except to add:

          When a woman is in the throes of bonking you senseless, she will do or say anything to get you to commit in some way – so she really cannot be trusted! She’ll say things like she’s on the pill, that it’s OK for you to see other women, that she’s happy to raise the kid by herself, etc. etc.
          Of course once she’s had the child and has the commitment, the role of sex is completed for her and she can change her mind and lose interest.
          So take everything she says with a pinch of salt – and plan accordingly if you’ve dumped your load in there (preferably before you do!)
          If she does get pregnant, expect her to use the baby as a hostage to get commitment (if she hasn’t got some other guy lined up for that of course!)
          Human instincts don’t understand contraception. Once she figured you’ve dumped your load – if the commitment is not coming she will move on. If she doesn’t have a baby to use to get that commitment then she’s more likely to quit even faster.

          For men, the trick is always to eat the bait without biting on the hook.

          You can “kick the can down the road” with some women sexually and drag out the relationship until inevitable entropy. They will typically always follow their instincts like a rat to the pied piper – to get a child and find a provider. Either way it ends badly for any man – either being dumped or run through the marriage wringer.

          So unless you are interested in the “fun” that is marriage – you have to keep women rotating through your life.

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