Your Mission, Her Mission

Does your woman think of you before herself? 

Does she make your priorities her own priorities?

Does she surprise you with acts of kindness and appreciation?

Does she inherently know that your success is her success?

Does she admire you? How does she show it?

Does she know what you need before you know it yourself?

Does she plan ahead to ensure you’re taken care of?

Does she care to know who, not just what you are?

Does she take time to learn about or participate in the things you are passionate about?

Does she look forward to having sex with you?

Does pleasing you please her?

Does she do any of these things with genuine desire or is she fearful of your displeasure?

Or

Is your woman ‘high maintenance’?

Is pleasing her or avoiding her discomfort your mission in the relationship?

Is your relationship defined by how well you measure up to her expectations?

Is your woman’s success more important than your own?

Are you the sentimental one in the relationship?

Do you plan ahead to ensure she’ll be in the right mood?

Do you perform chores in the hopes that it will make her amenable to you sexually?

Do you believe your relationship is (or should ideally be) an equitable one?

Does her family take priority over your own at holidays?

Is your relationship based on quid pro quo?

Is she ever surprised by your anger?

Is your relationship perpetually a “work in progress”?

Is your relationship’s success defined by qualifying to her metrics?

Do you measure the quality of your relationship by how well you meet her needs?

These are tough questions for most guys. I’m often asked how to vet a woman for a relationship or marriage and the hard part of coming up with a list of qualifications is that you have to actually be in a relationship with that person to really judge a woman’s suitability for a long term commitment. Hot sex is a great ‘up-sell’ for women to convince a man to commit, and it’s usually at the top of a guy’s list of must-haves for his commitment, but you don’t really understand her motivations or genuine desire until you are already in a relationship. Now you have emotional investment in her (caught feelings) at the same time you’re realizing she’s really not the person you thought you were vetting her for.

The ‘Asshole Alpha’

A hard thing for most Blue Pill, Beta men to appreciate is the genuine desire a woman has for an Alpha man. When that guy sees a relationship that’s based on a woman’s dedication to please her Alpha man, his Beta Hamster goes into action. A lot of things don’t line up with what he’s been conditioned to believe about women and how a relationship should go.

His first presumption is that the Alpha guy is a ‘manipulative asshole’ and if he ‘respected’ her she would be better off for it. It’s certainly not how he would treat her. Default respect for women plays well for a Blue Pill mindset. If you read through my first set of questions above the most common impression a feminized mind will have is that I’m implying a woman ought to be beholden to an Alpha man. While it’s true that, ideally, a solid conventional relationship is founded on a man’s ambition and success, and his woman sharing that mission, she has to want to be a part of it. Forcing a woman to be a part of a man’s world is actually the methodology of a Beta man.

Monogamy can occur either because a female chooses to be faithful to a male, or as a consequence of a particular lifestyle.

Promiscuity, Tim Birkhead

Exploring the Desire Dynamic has been a key feature in all of my writing. Understanding that genuine desire cannot be negotiated is usually one of the toughest parts of the Red Pill to accept when a guy is just coming into it. It’s hard because most men already realize the principle; they’ve just been building lives around the contingencies, and forming deep rationales, to avoid accepting it. I have readers tell me all the time that what I put forth in my books and essays is stuff ‘they already knew in the back of their heads‘, they just didn’t have the words to articulate it. Your relationship sucks, or your marriage is soul-destroying not because you can’t seem to live up to a false ideal (which is true), but because your woman has no genuine desire to be a part of your world. Modern marriages fail, not because of trust issues, or security, or even ‘her needs not being met’ – they fail due to a lack of genuine desire.

Most women today are in monogamous relationships as a consequence of a particular lifestyle.

Blue Pill men have a hard time with this as well. A relationship based on a woman’s choice to be faithful to a man, based on her genuine desire, looks a lot like what he’s been taught a lopsided manipulative relationship is all about. The prime-directive of feminism (the female Blue Pill) is that a Strong Independent Woman® should “never do anything for the express purpose of pleasing a man.” Part of a Blue Pill man’s lifelong conditioning is to think like a feminist woman thinks.

Most Blue Pill men are male feminists by default. Whether they vocally identify as one is largely a formality; Blue Pill men think like feminist women, because their social education came from feminist women.

When a Blue Pill male encounters the rare conventional relationship – one based on a woman’s genuine desire and a man’s Frame and ambitions – and he sees a woman doing things for the express pleasure of an Alpha man, his first impression is that she is with him by coercion. That conventional relationship model doesn’t fit with what his female teachers taught him was the egalitarian ideal. Thus, rationalizing that a beautiful woman would only feel obligated to please an asshole is because she has low self-esteem, she’s forced to please him because she’s destitute, she’s codependent, he overtly uses Dread on her, etc. This becomes his ego defense of his Blue Pill conditioning. His default presumption is that she is with that guy as a consequence of a particular lifestyle. It never enters his thought process that she is with that Alpha by choice.

Objects of Desire

Most men are uncomfortable with being the object of genuine desire. Even the idea of having a woman do something inspired for his express pleasure makes them feel like they’re falling into the role of Asshole Alpha. Promise Keepers in particular hate this impression of themselves and will go to great efforts to quash it in themselves, by deriding it in other men.

If you read the first list of questions above and thought, “Damn, that sounds harsh or manipulative. What about her needs?” this is your Blue Pill training coming to the surface of your consciousness. Just the thought that, as a man, you might ever be truly desired by a woman gets conflated with ‘abuser’ status. Either that, or the first consideration is to default to Bank Slate thinking – “What about her?” This is the egalitarian, presumption of ‘equal-and-opposite’ as the ideal thinking. 

Most Blue Pill conditioned men, and virtually every Fempowered woman, defaults to “What about her?” as their Mental Point of Origin. Guys do this because it’s been hammered into their brains since grammar school that ‘putting women first’ is the surest way to gaining their intimate favor. As such, the idea that they might ever ‘come first’ with a woman becomes an alien thought to them. Not only that, but they see the hypothetical Alpha I mentioned above as the villain to defeat in order to prove his quality. That ‘quality’ is based on his ‘putting women first’, so an Alpha Asshole becomes a golden opportunity to display how well he’s learned his Blue Pill lessons from his female teachers.

Without the Red Pill, without the insight to question his conditioned belief-set, this mindset is impossible to break in a guy. For the most part he’s attached his Game – his hope of solving his reproductive problem – to that Blue Pill, Village training. Some guys may never break the cycle. They never see the code in the Matrix. Most men fall into a grind of constant qualification to women because they have never, and will never, be the object of genuine desire of a woman. Their mental models prevent them from ever being that object to a woman. They would feel awkward, dirty, for making anything about them.

When a man’s Burden of Performance can be directed towards qualifying himself to women, men will begin to conflate their masculine identities with how well they can ‘put her first’.

The religious Trad-Con mindset revels in this, but the ideal comes from the same source – feminine primacy. Directionless, purposeless, men find a purpose in making the pleasing of a “quality woman” ideal the metric by which they measure their manhood. The Feminine Imperative figured out how to make women’s security the measure of a man long ago. It was written into men’s sense of duty and his Gods’ will. They must become less so she becomes more. It didn’t always used to be that way, but since the advent of romantic love as an ideal, it’s been the game men were told they had to play. And now, men’s natural competitiveness is channeled to outperforming his rivals in how better he can serve the Feminine Imperative.

IV. Don’t play by her rules

If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest.

16 Commandments of Poon, Roissy

I can make appeals to men to make themselves their Mental Point of Origin, but few actually wrap their heads around the concept. Fewer still will give themselves permission to do so. The reason for their difficulty is that their reproductive success was pinned to the Blue Pill mindset they’d had beaten into their psyches a long time ago.

The equal partnership ideal is antithetical to how men and women evolved to be complements to the other. That ‘equal’ partnership is predicated on a man endlessly proving his dedication to ‘putting her first’ that his hindbrain believes will lead to a woman’s genuine desire for him. His hope, his understanding, is that if he works at his relationship long enough, if he puts her first, eventually she will appreciate him and desire him based on his efforts and performance. But it is just this priority in his life – the priority he’s linked to what little sense he allows himself to have of his manhood – that defeats his ever getting to that state of a woman’s genuine inspired desire.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

152 comments on “Your Mission, Her Mission

  1. Another great essay, as was the last. Sadly, Rollo, no matter how many times you say it, too many men have an adaptive strategy to use “Alpha” men as social wedges to bolster themselves. It’s not that they really care about the thot who is whinging about some guy, it’s that they feel threatened immediately and know they can’t compete so they focus on undermining the other guy.

    Me? I tell girls when they start whining about how some guy treated them awfully that I’m the wrong guy to tell that story too cuz I’m sure plenty of girls have stories about me…This is called “qualifying”, and I’m qualifying for short term mate selection, not to be their next emotional tampon.

    Do men here think being alpha or beta is a choice for a man? Think carefully. It’s so obviously a choice, and I think men make it early on. In my examination of my social standing and how I fit into the social order, I recognized that I made decisions about what I would put up with or not very young. While I decided to no take shit from anyone in my early teens, I also decided at 17 to not instigate violence and have managed to keep to the pledge. I decided when i was in my 20s and in a marriage that was not unlike what was described above that I simply would not put up with it – no matter the consequences.

    And there are consequences. My aggressive, take no shit attitude gets me in trouble increasingly in this feminized, Woke culture. My ultimatum to my then wife resulted in her leaving for another man eventually. But the beta men don’t want to risk anything – particularly social shaming of the sort men like me get in today’s society.

    My hectoring at you men is essentially based on this simple truth. Most of you wouldn’t know a “Red Pill” if it jumped in your lap and started fucking you. You are just here to buffer your anger and sense of failure, but want to keep to your Blue Pill rules about the world. You want an old order (an order that absolutely sucked for most men) back that will never come back.

    I’ll explain it again for literally the 100th time.
    A pickle ain’t never going to become a cucumber again.
    We evolve forward.
    Adapt to the new realities and thrive.
    Be honest with yourself about what you really want and who you really are

    If you do this, you will see just how much our old and new social order has had you obviate your own identity and preferences. You will see how much of your behavior is still about trying to win the game of the old order. And you will see how dishonest you are with yourself about how you actually see yourself.

    If honest, you will see how you denigrate yourself and masculinity in a 1000 subtle ways. You will see how you’ve adjusted your desires to what a gynocentric world demands you desire. You will see how so much of your life is about putting the bit in your mouth and pulling for a society and social order that hates you…

    And if you are me, you will say “fuck you” to the entire world that operates that way – come what may. And guess what? That has a cost most men simply do not want to bear. You are beta-faggots cuz you don’t want to pay the price of not being a beta-faggot. I get laid and you don’t because of this. Women love-hate me…And I don’t give a fuck. The adoration of some girl simply isn’t a cure all for what ails me. And trust me, they will turn on you, they don’t “mean it”. They are just doing what that pile of mush in the back of their heads tells them to do as well and they are out for themselves. One crushing truth for me was seeing how I internalized romantic love and chivalric codes and held myself to them while they were just tools of convenience for women, to be used to shame and control me when they felt it necessary, but never were actual standards they operated by. Men internalize romantic love far more deeply than women do, and we have a harder time getting over a woman we’ve loved in that way.

    For my money, https://gynocentrism.com/ is the best source of actual knowledge on how we got here. Chivalric codes and courtly love turned men into plough horses formally throughout society. It institutionalized gynocentrism and male debasement and submission to female authority in the sense of how we treat a “lady”. Christianity is hopelessly intertwined with this mess, so if you are hanging on to what Christianity tells you about men and women you are fucked.

    Thinking a reversion to fundo Christianity is a solution to this is perhaps the most retarded thing the Red Pill world has to offer. But please, carry on, it seems that guys like me are to be dismissed cuz we are don’t play ball with your tradcon bullshit.

    Here’s a truth most of you pussies cannot handle. Many women today love not being subservient to men. Many enjoy careers and accomplishment and playing sports and being “partners” with men. Many of them didn’t really ever enjoy being a stay at home mom and wanted more from life. We had to curtail women’s freedom to have the old social order – and shocker!!! They don’t want it back.

    You have to know under 30yo women to get this. The new generation of women see themselves much more as men see themselves. The idea of deferring to a man just doesn’t occur to them. While the back of the brain still responds to alpha mating stimulus, they just ride it and use it to cum hard – not to run their lives. In this way they are the same as me. I see our limbic brain driven sexuality as a fun ride at the amusement park, not as a way to live my life.

    We are in the midst of creating a new social order – whether you guys like it or not. Me? I resigned from the “wish it was different” society when I took the Red Pill. Gosh, and I thought that as what the Red Pill was in the first place? A change in mindset…Silly me, I should have realized it was just another excuse beta faggots use to whine some more.

  2. I’m impressed by this, as usual, Senor Rollo. I think I can sum up what I got from it very simply. A man needs to discard the teachings of the feminist imperative and realize that what is best for him IS what is best for his woman. Aaaaaand… if a woman inherently knows and realizes what is best for him is best for her, in comes the attraction and arousal, thereby negating the need for the already declared useless negotiation of desire. Bout right?

  3. @Rollo: just the “bullet points” at the start are great. The rest of the post is just value added on top.

    That list is a seriously good diagnostic tool. This is one of your best post this year.

  4. Change caption to “Me trying to provide on my call center Team Leader salary” for broader application…

  5. Post-nut clarity is the closest some men will ever get to being red-pilled. It’s a damn shame they can’t read or have an open mind that they might not know everything already. A lot of men are just too proud and too ashamed to get to the bottom of their reoccurring relationship problems and search for answers.

  6. I hate to read but I had to read parts of this essay twice. It’s outstanding! As a young boy, I asked my mother how to get a gf. She said treat her special, support her, she knows best, buy her things. My dad was a momma’s boy. (Useless then)Women would date me and dump me. I got with a single mother, married her, she cheated, I forgave her twice until the third guy knocked her up. I later learned there was other affairs. I knew something wasn’t correct in my approach so I came across Corey Wayne. His info helped -some-but happened to mention TRM. I found this and gradually, change has happened. I WAS raised around tradcons and alpha has been a challenge bc “making her first” was what I was taught. “Making myself first” sounded so alien to me in the beginning bc making her first (I was also taught ) was some kind of protection for her. If I can understand fully what creates genuine desire then I believe I can really take off. This essay is my favorite so far. I’m gonna print this fucker off.

  7. @scribblerg “The new generation of women see themselves much more as men see themselves. The idea of deferring to a man just doesn’t occur to them. While the back of the brain still responds to alpha mating stimulus, they just ride it and use it to cum hard – not to run their lives. In this way they are the same as me. I see our limbic brain driven sexuality as a fun ride at the amusement park, not as a way to live my life.”

    Your comment really resonated with me and with what I’m observing as well.

    For all of the articles written over the last few years in the MSM insisting just how utterly miserable modern day western women supposed are – that 40%+ are seriously depressed, taking prescription SSRIs, dealing with chronic STIs, coping with crushing student and consumer debt payments, and generally feeling frustrated working 50+ hour weeks in a 24/7 internet and phone-connected labor market – I seriously question whether this applies universally to all women or mainly to older women aged 30+?

    My observation is that younger women <30 years of age have, for good reasons, a decidedly different mentality about life, school, career and men. Maybe its apex fallacy. Don’t know. For instance, they have absolutely zero interest in forming families, having children and becoming a wife. They want to finish their degrees, start careers, buy some cool stuff and go on fun vacations so they can post on instagram and generate indignation/envy, and yeah if there’s some meet cutes and funny men on her path that she’d like to fuck, then hey, why not?
    They are living the life- travel, adventures, friends, fitness – and plenty of nets to break any fall.
    I don’t see women even half as miserable as some men in the redpill community seem to want to believe.
    Truth be told, this is the probably the best time to be alive as a young period, just by opportunities alone.

    But while trying to digest these brutal, harsh red pills, I’ve notice a propensity for many men still processing their anger to have an extraordinary level of interest and emotional investment in the misfortune of women in general. They seem to relish the notion that women young and old in this gynocentric order would finally earn their just desserts! They’ll write comments like “Aha! See! They’re doing it to themselves!”

    In German this is called “Schadenfreude”, namely “the delight in the misfortune of others”. This is a favorite past-time for many people, but especially older women. But for adult males Schadenfreude is a stupid waste of time, with zero upside unless everything in your own house is already in full, crisp and mint order, you’re fit and ripped, rich, getting laid like tile on the regular, and on your purpose/mission with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind.

    Also, just my observation – this new generation of women definitely do not see themselves as future “complements” or “enhancements to a man’s life”. If that happens, its pure happenstance. Nothing she wishes to orchestrate. I don’t believe they even want to be the “center” of a man’s life anymore either. For many girls, that’s too much unnecessary weight, drama and drag on their already busy lives, hence their poorly veiled, unmitigated and open contempt for beta males and soy boys.

  8. @Constrainedlocus: the ones that are 30+ now, or 40+ now (post-wall), a significant portion of which ARE indeed miserable (I think you are not disputing that), were indeed having fun when they were under 30 (pre-wall). I.e. pretty much as the current crop of pre-wall girls are.

    The sociological change may have been sudden, but not that sudden. Pre-wall girls in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s in the West were already behaving in much the same way as the current crop of pre-wall girls, so it is not at all unreasonable to extrapolate that this current crop will face the same fate as the previous ones faced when they hit the wall.

  9. This list made me think…

    Mrs. Gamer is ultra low maintenance and it has always been that way. And I would say that there’s a quid pro quo…I do one nice thing for Mrs. Gamer and she does three for me…and Mrs. Gamer is happy…

    …our arguments are usually because she’s trying to be helpful and she isn’t…or she asks me a question and doesn’t wait for the answer but moves on to something else…

    …and why is it “your woman” instead of “your women”?

  10. I met my gf working in her home city. Ive got tired of her city and ive decided to move back to my city. I told her she can stay but im leaving with or without her

    She is leaving all her friends, family and even her house she bought to come and join me. I made myself my point of origin and her interest in me now boarders on obsession.

  11. Reading the two lists, I realise that I’ve experienced both. In my younger years—and in the second half of my marriage—I was making the woman’s wants the centre of my life, and in the first half of my marriage and with my later women, I was my own point of origin. And while being the ‘object of desire’ is definitely better than being the beta simp, it’s certainly no recipe for happiness. Deep down, I could always feel that the woman was being good to me, even having sex with me, because I was giving her what she wanted. I was a winner and she wanted to be the woman of a winner. And my ego likes it to begin with, but eventually it palls and becomes just another thing I have to deal with, like remembering to keep track of my tax deductibles. Looking back, I realise that I actually preferred a woman’s shit tests to her ‘being nice’ to me. At least those were moderately unpredictable.

  12. Rollo: “When a man’s Burden of Performance can be directed towards qualifying himself to women, men will begin to conflate their masculine identities with how well they can ‘put her first’.
    The religious Trad-Con mindset revels in this, but the ideal comes from the same source – feminine primacy.”

    I’m religious and traditional but not “Trad-Con”. I don’t know what goes on in modern churches but it doesn’t sound promising for the men.
    In old time religion (and practically all human societies historically) the flow of spiritual authority was always God-Man-Wife-Kids. Of course women and children have their own personal relationship with God too. In general, a man pursued his mission of connection to God and wisdom and his family fully supported him in this since they reaped the benefits of having a man of God around. In mainstream society it hasn’t been anything like this for decades, but some men still don’t realize that.

    I don’t understand the Trad-Con approach to women, since I assume they are monotheists, but worshipping God and a woman too is clearly polytheist. Maybe some poor souls are just going through the motions with God and really worshipping the sun dress goddess they placed on their personal pedestal? The ancient Canaanites had temple prostitutes, the men brought gifts to Baal etc and got to sleep with them. They probably weren’t coming for the Baal, they wanted the girls. The more things change…

    I do think (and have experienced) that a man feels really good when a woman wants him. That’s the way God built us. Approval from an attractive woman is one measuring rod of your personal success. I suspect what is going wrong is men are making their mission to make her happy and therefore want him. It’s a palliative. Really, God wants men to succeed at being men, find a personal mission and win big in life. Then women will want him for who he is, and he will get that approval. But feminine approval and desire for a man being a masculine and is considered wrong in modern polite society.

    Rollo hits the nail on the head explaining both men and women in modern mainstream culture are taught that men should not be masculine and women should not give approval to masculinity. Due to biology they will anyway, but culture has a nasty and pervasive influence.

  13. More truth bombs from Rollo’s firehose of red pill knowledge. This list is a disgusting reminder of the lies we have been sold. It’s an IF-Even equation sold to us by the feminine imperative. Good example of women’s solipsistic nature and how they operate from their own mental point of origin. I see the code now after being with my wife for 30 years. I think of the old saying, “happy wife, happy life” when I read this list. Men have been programmed to serve women with hopes of “earning” her desire and approval. I see my wife pulling this bullshit after all these years. I am expected to uphold my burden of performance while she does what she wants like a purposeless teenager.

    I think of the old saying, “find a good man to take care of you…”. “Good” implies the 400 point checklist that men need to achieve in order to qualify for her “approval”. While the “take care of you” portion implies the lack of accountability on her part. Her only qualification is just being a woman. Just be you and he will do the rest. These seem to be two separate contracts without mutual agreement. Men are taught to follow these rules with the false hope that he will be rewarded for his efforts. While woman have zero responsibility.

    Funny observation with a female this month. She was angrily annoyed that her partner needed an ounce of attention and was feeling depressed. Yet, she was shocked when he shared the same information with friends and NO ONE cared. Hello, you didn’t give a shit about your own partner and now you are shocked that others don’t either? She was annoyed at the fact that she might have to perform the very same acts in the lists above.

  14. Rollo, I have read your essays and bought your three books – and while I agree with most, there is one detail that I take offense with, and that is your derison for “default respect”.

    I think you conflate the bland façade that most people bear as a mask in order to make life easier for all, for some evidence of milquetoast personality.

    You should by default respect others, because you do not know what burdens they carry, what feats they have accomplished, what terrors they have weathered – and they are not beholden to impress you with the story of their lives as soon as you meet.

    Do you even wish for that? That every new person you meet put up a show to demonstrate their valor?

    RAAGH! I AM BURT, SURVIVOR OF CANCER AND SMACKER OF PUNKS! I ONCE SUFFERED FROSTBITE PULLING UP A DOG FROM AN ICY POND, AND BIT OFF A BLACKENED FINGER; I HAVE LAIN WITH THREE DOZEN WOMEN AND FATHERED FOUR CHILDREN, ALL CHAMPIONS OF THEIR TRADES; MY PEERS KNOW ME AS THE SCOURGE OF FOOLS, WHAT MY ENEMIES CALL ME I DO NOT KNOW FOR THEY ARE ALL DEAD.

    1. You’re conflating “respect” with “human dignity”. Respect is earned. It has its roots in the Latin word “respectus”, which means “look at, look back upon”, i.e. you look back on someone’s deeds and esteem them accordingly. The meaning has been diluted in the modern day to the point where it’s a synonym for “human dignity” but it shouldn’t be.

      “Dignity” is the quality or state of being “worthy or esteemed”, and was associated with rank – the reason we say “human dignity” is because we’re adding a qualifier – “this is the level of esteem you grant another based on the fact of their humanity”, in essence. Which is to say, you treat others with a base level of esteem, just for being human, and thus even prisoners on death row (whether we agree or not) are given a certain amount of consideration, or “dignity”.

      To say “respect women” is to demand special, above-and-beyond consideration and esteem on the basis of sex. No one in MSM says ‘respect men”. Ever. Why not? Think about that.

      To use the term “respect” to describe the basic, default consideration we give to others merely for existing as humans is to dilute it. We’ve had enough of that with “hero” and “love” and “courage” and “awesome” and virtually every other once-powerful descriptor, haven’t we? By all means, treat strangers well – “Do unto others…” – but let’s save “respect” for those that have earned it.

  15. ” . . . you do not know what burdens they carry, what feats they have accomplished, what terrors they have weathered . . .”

    Courtesy is not the same thing as respect and none of that has any relevance to courtesy. I would also note that reasons do not imply excuses.

  16. A further note: acting with civility is not respect for the person, it is respect for the civilization.

    Of course that may only matter if you’re one of the idiots that has to live in it.

  17. GOD, I wish I had read, understood, and acted based upon this column back when I was finishing college.
    It would have saved me twenty+ years of a hopeless marriage and half of my assets and earnings.

    Young men, READ AND HEED this article, it’s the best wisdom that you’ll ever receive at no cost.

  18. kfg: “A further note: acting with civility is not respect for the person, it is respect for the civilization.
    Of course that may only matter if you’re one of the idiots that has to live in it.”

    So YOU’RE the legendary one man who IS an island, who mines the ore to smelt the iron, then hammers it into shape for his axe, knife, and sword; who grows his own wheat, corn, barley, rice and oats, raises his own cattle, goats, pigs and fowl – – when he doesn’t simply hunt them, haul them home, and slaughter them; who fells trees to debark and hew into lumber, then builds his own home and sheds; who deosn’t live in society, but is entirely separate and apart from it.

    Nice to know! Too bad the rest of us have to live in the real world.

  19. “So YOU’RE the legendary one man who IS an island . . .”

    No. I’m the man who has repeatedly pointed out that as I like smooth, paved roads to ride bicycles on, public libraries and broadband Internet it is in my own interest to give some care to that which provides them.

    Perhaps you were responding to the voices in your head, rather than to what I have written.

  20. The Boy Scouts of America have declared bankruptcy.

    The story caught my eye not over the bankruptcy, but over the fact that there is something called the Boy Scouts of America.

    For those who haven’t been following along, a while ago, after years of pressure from women, the BSoA decided to admit girls. There are now actually Boy Scout troops with no boys in them. Then they decided, given the above, to adopt the gender neutral name The Scouts.

    And were promptly sued by the Girl Scouts who claimed that the gender neutral name discriminated against girls. Go figure.

    Just in case anyone was still laboring under the misapprehension that you can make your wife happy by giving her what she asks for.

  21. The “asshole alpha” is a transition phase from Blue Pill AFC BETA to ACTUAL Alpha.

    Beta’s are so used to accommodating a woman’s needs that when they discover the power of “no” they go the other way being deliberately obstinate.

    It works like a super power. But then they go too far and backfires. “No” may spark attraction but attraction without “Comfort” doesn’t lead to seduction…..just like “Comfort” without “Attraction” kills seduction.

    So there’s a big difference between the “Asshole Alpha” and “Uncaring asshole”..

    One thing that I find banging girls in their 20’s is that they expect me as an older mature dude to call the shots, make decisions and initiate everything.

    I used to hate cooking for girls because I found it Beta. But now I cook because most of these girls can’t—something I make sure through cocky-funny I make them understand. “I’m cooking because I value my life…” “I’m taking a chance letting you do the dishes…” etc etc.

    So calibration is key to this adoption of the “Asshole alpha” mindset.

  22. Rollo- How much of this is innate female behavior vs a learned behavior? I’m surrounded by professional women in the workplace and the ones that seem the most productive and happy, are the ones that have a solid respect for their fathers.

    The correlation I see is the one’s that grew up in homes where the mother didn’t respect the father, the daughters end up mimicking the same behavior. The ones that had an old school traditional home (father as leader, mother as second in command) appear to have less issues and more respect for the masculine.

    The worse ones are the feminist 25-30 year olds that play victim for no apparent reason, yet they are the most miserable with their new “empowerment”. Always looking for a reason to blame men for their failings. They are also miserable because they are trying to act like men. They end up “successful” with no men or children in their lives. One I know is in a constant internal struggle trying to be an “independent” woman while fighting her innate desire to be a mother. She has missed her window of opportunity and now has no real purpose in life.

    This points to the importance of the vetting process. If a woman grew up in a household where the father was not respected, you are in for trouble. The ones that don’t play this role are actually more happy and reek the benefits of the old contracts. I mentioned at lunch that I liked the show Mad Men and one of the feminist got mad. She tried to publicly shame me for liking women in the feminine role. That same woman came back later and told me the exact opposite in private. She actually wants/needs a man to take the lead because she really can’t “do it without a man”. She actually shows more respect when you tell her “NO” and don’t role over to her every whim.

  23. @New Guy

    Rollo- How much of this is innate female behavior vs a learned behavior? I’m surrounded by professional women in the workplace and the ones that seem the most productive and happy, are the ones that have a solid respect for their fathers.

    The correlation I see is the one’s that grew up in homes where the mother didn’t respect the father, the daughters end up mimicking the same behavior. The ones that had an old school traditional home (father as leader, mother as second in command) appear to have less issues and more respect for the masculine.

    The ability to have healthy and happy family relationships (husband-wife relationships) is highly correlated with how each of the participants experienced the relationship with their parents.

    And the effect of fucking up the next generation was much more profound on women/daughters than men/sons on how the next generation was able to get along well.

    Shawn T. Smith wrote about this (in Tactical Guide to Woman) and cited research that showed how this effect correlated. Anna Karenina Happy Family growing up? Much better chance of having a successful relationship. And vice versa.

    A study by Dennison, Koerner and Segrin in 2014 looked at “intergenerational transmission of marital quality” to see if adult, married children mirrored their parents’ level of happiness.

    Here is the study:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262072147_A_Dyadic_Examination_of_Family-of-Origin_Influence_on_Newlyweds'_Marital_Satisfaction

    From the Shawn T. Smith book:

    Section titled: What the Old Man Taught Us:

    They noticed that conflict-management skills strongly predict marital satisfaction and—no surprise here—kids grow up to emulate their parents’ conflict-management skills. If our parents were cool like Fonzie during arguments, then we’re likelier to be cool like Fonzie. If they screamed and threw dishes, then our partners are in for a similar treat (barring caveat number one).

    The way we engage in conflict is even influenced by our partner’s family of origin. If her parents had good conflict-management skills, then she carries a high expectation and her partner will tend to rise to her expectations. My clinical experience matches this line of research. I’ve met many couples in which one person stated they never knew conflict could be handled constructively until they met their partner. This is just one of many reasons it pays to choose wisely. Plus, you’ll end up buying fewer dishes.

    Our relationships can be an echo of our parents even when we think we are doing things differently than them. Our fathers were teaching us about women even when they weren’t using words. There isn’t much research on fathers and sons in the professional literature, but there is quite a bit on mothers and daughters that is useful for our purposes.

    One study (Kilmann et al. 2009) looked at 90 young women with married parents and discovered how the positive and negative experiences of one generation, especially the mother’s, affected the experiences of their daughters. Mothers who were dismissive, insecure, or uncertain about relationships tended to have daughters who were—you guessed it—also dismissive, fearful, or insecure.

    On the other hand, mothers who felt they could trust their husbands raised daughters who were more secure. Trusting mothers were also more accepting of their daughters’ individuality. They were less controlling, had better parenting skills, were more involved, and were more affectionate with their daughters. Apparently, a secure mom is a more effective mom.

    The ability to feel relaxed and secure in a relationship is one of the most efficiently transmitted experiences from one generation to the next. It’s true for men, too. If the old man was unhappy or unsatisfied, then we’re inclined to end up in a similar predicament thanks to subtle means of passing on the misery.

    A common childhood experience that affects adult relationships is known as “parentification.” That’s when a child is expected to fulfill a parental role within the family. It can be instrumental in nature, like requiring children to provide actual care of siblings or adults. It can also be emotional in nature, like when a child is responsible for maintaining calmness in the house. That’s supposed to be the parents’ job. Any child of an addict or alcoholic who felt he or she had to protect one parent from the other’s drunken anger knows what it’s like to assume the duties of ineffectual adults.

    A little bit of instrumental parentification, especially during crisis, can be useful because it teaches responsibility. It takes a destructive turn when a child is forced to compensate for parents who are emotionally unstable, unpredictable, or otherwise falling down on the job. The burden of compensating for underperforming parents leads to poor communication as an adult, as well as difficulty trusting romantic partners (Madden and Shaffer 2016). If there’s one thing healthy women don’t dig, it’s an insecure man who cannot express himself.

    Parentification also strongly predicts depression in adulthood (Schier et al. 2015). Men are particularly at risk for being more manipulative when their parents were asleep at the switch. They operate as though they must use trickery in order to get their needs met or their efforts acknowledged (Láng 2016).

    Women don’t like to be manipulated (who does?), but being manipulative can sometimes be just one more example of the mind looking out for us. The mind can learn at an early age to compensate for unpredictable and neglectful parents by influencing people and events to get needs met, and that mindset just keeps going into adulthood.

    Most people come by their counterproductive habits honestly. If we were shortchanged in the parent department, then there’s a fair chance our parents were themselves shortchanged. Patterns get handed down like the family china, except that china is easier to break. Luckily, not all patterns are disadvantageous. Believe it or not, families are actually more inclined to pass down healthy patterns than unhealthy ones (Kilmann et al 2009).

    One of the most important positive patterns is arguing constructively, which unsurprisingly correlated with successful marriages in on study (Mackey, Diemer, and O’Brien 2000). These researchers found that prosperous couples are willing to tackle difficult discussions when necessary, though women are generally better at initiating tough conversations. These couples don’t deny that a problem exists, hide in a bottle, or get lost in a rabbit hole of trivial, unrelated disagreements.

    According to the study, couples who argued constructively typically do three things. First, they spend a fair bit of time talking about how they communicate. It’s an ongoing negotiation of the ground rules that bridges the gap even when the conversation goes poorly.

    Second, they look for the good in each other even when it’s difficult to find. They make a point of remembering positive qualities that could easily be obscured by negative interaction. For example, a wife might remind herself during an argument that her husband’s stubborn streak, annoying though it may be, is less important to her than the things she loves about him, like his sense of humor or his compassion.

    Finally, they recognize that they balance each other, and they capitalize on each other’s strengths. One partner may be better at initiating difficult conversations, while the other may be better at bringing humor and levity.

    Fathers in particular play an important role in teaching their sons how to manage conflict. For example, successful fathers teach plain old self-maintenance, especially about being proactive with problems like depression. One study of 345 fathers and sons living together found that fathers with moderate to severe depression had less contact with their sons, were more distant, offered less supervision, and had more frequent conflict with their sons (Davis et al. 2009).

    By neglecting the father-son relationships, these fathers were teaching their sons how to neglect themselves. The more conscientious and productive approach is to teach sons how to put words to problems rather than remaining silent and becoming immobilized. The lessons often show up in small snippets. “Hey son, I’m sorry I’ve been preoccupied. It’s nothing you’ve done wrong. Just a little work stress. Let’s go for a bike ride.”

    Fathers also teach sons about dealing effectively with marital strain. This is important because the father-son bond is especially vulnerable to father-mother discord. Even in couples who function relatively well, marital strain affects father-son relationships much more than father-daughter relationships (Bernier, Jarry-Boileau and Lacharité 2014). Marital strain can push fathers away from their sons as early as toddlerhood.

    A third relationship skill our fathers give us is the ability to trust. They model this by being present and consistent, and it’s no small consideration. A skilled father teaches his son, usually by way of example, that disagreements have solutions. The kid in a healthy household observes that disagreements occur with some regularity, but constructive solutions are equally predictable.

    Children whose parents are unpredictable—affectionate one minute and critical the next, for example—can become what we shrinks refer to as anxiously attached. They crave their parent’s love and approval while simultaneously being distrustful of it. This internal conflict can show up in later relationships as needing partner’s approval while simultaneously looking for signs of abandonment. This can get really annoying in relationships when it puts partners in untenable binds. “Tell me you love me… You don’t really mean it.”

    For reasons that aren’t entirely clear, men are more likely than women to carry anxious attachment from their parental relationships to their romantic partnerships (Jarnecke and South 2013). If they didn’t trust their parents to be present and reliable, they probably won’t trust their wives.

    If those invisible relationship dynamics aren’t enough, the old man also taught us a tremendous amount about women simply through his behavior around them. For example, sons whose fathers abandoned their wives and families are themselves statistically likelier to abandon their own families.

    All things being equal, we emulate our role models for good or ill. Our fathers taught us what kind of women to choose and how to behave toward them. We’re not bound to imitate our fathers, and plenty of men don’t, but I have yet to meet someone whose decisions weren’t influenced by their parents’ choices and behaviors.

    Luckily, none of us have to settle for what our parents taught us. We can take what’s effective and leave the rest. The easiest way to do this is to surround yourself with men you want to emulate. They’re everywhere. You can find them in networking groups, church groups, dojos, or wherever men congregate.

    A teacher once told me, “He who walks through turds gets turds stuck to him.” It was a warning to be careful who we associate with because bad habits are contagious. The opposite is equally true. It’s impossible not to grow if you walk among giants. If your old man failed at fatherhood, then your goal should be to bring good men and mentors into your life.
    Whatever you do, don’t let your mind run the show. It may mean well, but if your history is less than ideal, it’s working with tainted data that is likely to lead you to the wrong women. –Shawn T. Smith

    https://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Guide-Women-Manage-Marriage/dp/B07612Y9J6

  24. ” A teacher once told me, “He who walks through turds gets turds stuck to him.” It was a warning to be careful who we associate with because bad habits are contagious. “

    Horseshit.

    Fucking studies and research, but what’s a man’s experiences?

    Imagine if Rollo just copy pasta 90% of his pieces and books without personal insight? Personal experiences and observations?

    Reading is fundamental, but….fuuuccckkk.

  25. Fuck you Blax.

    I’ve been telling you the exact same stuff from my experience. And you can’t relate, interpret or understand what I say.

    It runs true.

  26. 😂

    Okay, I don’t have any fucking studies to worship, but I have lifelong, varied experience, and that still counts in the real world.

    People can overcome their circumstances. It happens all the time, every single day. Your parenting doesn’t sentence you to death conclusively. It’s a generality, not a guarantee.

    Many women, regardless of how many parents were present, or how many dishes were broken, are influenced by what society is doing, pushing and allowing. It’s not necessarily what they want, because fucking sheeple, and many times they don’t even know what they really want.

    But if you observe and talk to them you might find exactly what Newguy found behind the facade.

    Parenting. Damn Skippy it’s extremely important. I don’t ever minimize that. But it doesn’t have to carve your future in stone by having had bad parental examples and experience. Only a ” study ” would infer stupid shit like that.

    Why do I believe what I say over what some guy wrote in a book?

    I wanted to date/fuck this gorgeous girl I’d met down south. To this day she’s still ranked as one of the most beautiful women I’d ever seen up close and personal. But my family said that under no circumstances should I try to have any relationship with her. When I pressed them as to why, it was because her mother had killed her father, after years and years of violence and fighting. Stabbed him like 30times and sent to prison ( this was before the courts were just letting women off for murdering husbands because ” abuse “). Most guys avoided dating her, which struck me as crazy.

    So I took my shot, and had a great time. No manner of puncture wounds. But I kept it moving. Very enjoyable 2 months every year for about 4 years. She even visited me in Jersey from time to time.

    Eventually she got married, but not to any local guy where she lived. I keep in semi touch with her still because we are friends. She’s been married to the same guy for about 35 years now, 5 kids, happy family oriented people.

    Many people overcome horrible childhood shit. It’s not 100% predictive of anything. I know people that had wonderful 2 parent, loving households that commuted suicide, became drug addicts, or are doing prison time for some awful shit they did.

    No dishes thrown.

    I have 3 more example, but I’ve gone on too long already. But I’ll end with one more example.

    My wife.

    My wife grew up in a traditional, conservative, 2 parent household with an insanely abusive father. She was known for her explosive temper for years. Her siblings and mother ” warned ” me that she was ” uncontrollable and unpredictable “.

    22 years, no fights, nothing broken. Her family asks me how I ” did it “.

    Like the example given by Newguy, women are seeking something. Sometimes they don’t even know what it is, sometimes they do, but usually they do not want to verbalize it. At all. Men are better off understanding that and acting accordingly. Dog logic will normally end in frustration and failures. Not their fault. They aren’t men.

    Interactions with actual people over time will tell you 100x more than studies.

  27. @Blax

    People can overcome their circumstances. It happens all the time, every single day. Your parenting doesn’t sentence you to death conclusively. It’s a generality, not a guarantee.

    You said in the other Why We Fight Thread:

    “People just need to make better choices.

    Truth.

    They are making ” good choices”

    I agree that people can overcome their circumstances. And would go one further to say that people must over come their circumstances, if they were bad. And excuse me for saying this, and I beg everyone’s pardon–it is one’s moral obligation to overcome their bad circumstances, if they had them.

    I’ve been rambling on about Mickey Mouse good circumstances, without you understanding that because of that, I didn’t have things to overcome. And yet you ignore the corollary: I made good decisions in my life. And I don’t whine, complain, or make excuses for where I am because I self made a lot of things and like where I am at and what I do.

    Even if you think I’m delusional .

    So I agree with you entirely that people can change and can overcome adversity and bad childhood to have a good life. And they should.

    And you state that it happens all the time. Yeah. To you and some people you know. Otherwise the Pareto Principle still applies. Not enough people do it. Although they should and should have a moral imperative (there goes that bad word, call it an ethical principle…) to do so.
    You over-reach. And I believe you should as a mentor to continue to do this. Exhort people (men) to do this. Keep it up. And so will I–ask for others to do their best, no matter what.

    It’s not like I haven’t told any stories here. In the hope that it would inspire someone seeing it to make wise decisions no matter what was in their rear view mirror. Even if you found them inscrutable. Or thought them as seeking external validation, rather than giving examples of making wise decisions in Married Red Pill. (I never spoke of single guy PUA. Did I? Oh, and BTW, I’m an advocate for LTR’s because of their value and for the raising of good children. )

    It may happen all the time. But most people don’t do it. And yet they should.

    And my experience tells me exactly that. And the studies and other men’s experience back it up as a general state of being. Not everyone follows the line of doing their best, what’s that saying–Chasing Excellence (Richard Cooper…). But they should.

    My point all along.

  28. And….

    The The Proof is in the Pudding. (And also the Putting–otherwise known as action on your part. Not being a douche.)

    Go on all you want about what could happen. And what should happen. And how most people can do it.

    “A dish may have been made from a good recipe with fresh ingredients and look delicious, but you can really only judge it by putting it in your mouth. The actual taste is the only true criterion of success.”

  29. “Okay, I don’t have any fucking studies to worship, but I have lifelong, varied experience, and that still counts in the real world.”

    Quick question Blax: We are the same age. Tell me after all my comments. Do you actually think that I don’t have lifelong, varied experiences and that they don’t count in the real world.

    And yet, despite red pill awareness, I’m very well in MRP.

    You seem frustrated by what I comment on.

    You seem to exhort your mentees to do good shit. You seem to think everyone can be like you. And be great.

    And then you and others don’t want harmonious, healthy and all in relationship. Including a long term relationship with or without children.

    Tell me what percentage of the people in your world (social circle and all) are doing well in the sphere of inter-sexual relationships. ? Not just now. But in your whole life’s history.

    How well is everybody doing there?

    How many of the married people remain married.

    How many of the single men that you know are really doing well in terms of where they want to be?

    And what triggers you about when I tell you I am doing well and so is my community and the guys I hang out with?

    And how I operate.

    What gives? What do I do wrong? And what should your boys not emulate? I don’t speak well? I suck on my silver spoon for 59 years? YGBSM.

    What’s wrong with living well? And making good decisions.

    Freewill?

    Evo-bio compulsions?

    Either you want to do well, or you are a you are and NPC, non-playable-character, drifting in the wind.

  30. SJF

    I think what is frustrating is exactly because we are the same age, but don’t have the same experiences in life or that we view them so very differently.

    But I think I’m figuring it all out, and that’s the point of the back and forth.

    Looks like our disconnect is due to having to face competition. Because of where we live, we’ve faces different levels of actual competition in life. You’ve visited highly competitive scenarios,.and I live in them. So your experience informs you that all you have to do is make an effort and you’ll succeed in everything. My experience is that ” effort ” is only 1/3 of the battle.

    As to your question, I don’t tell young men the same things you espouse because my experience tells me that not only will they require mental toughness, but physical toughness as well, because they will have to compete on all kinds of levels, and they will not always have the option to pick and choose. Options matter. I live in the most populous state in the u.s., And I’m across the river from NYC, and that presents daily competition if a man is trying to actually do anything. You have to do more than ” ttry ” and make efforts.

    Imo, staying married doesn’t way anything about a man. Mind you, I’ve been divorced. Having a ” successful ” marriage doesn’t tell me shit about a man or who he is. My marriage in no way defines me. I’m the exact same guy married or not.

    Most married people I know have stayed married, some have not for a myriad of reasons. People can be perfectly happy without marriage and children, and some people are miserable despite being married with or without children. That’s not a formula for everybody, for many reasons.

    So yeah, it’s the competition thing. You infer that you’ve just kinda waltzed through kife, having effort rewarded ( while seeing effort as adversity ). I’ve had to fight for everything, and have needed to put in more effort for less reward. That competition thing.

    But now I’m winding down. And I can see a very bad and bumpy road ahead for young men. My success has never blinded me to what’s going on around me.

    That’s why Yareally used to call us ” omg’s ” and made fun of what he thought was a mindset shared by all. That was his experience. We’re all old and out of touch and don’t understand what young men face.

    Age doesn’t define men as much as experiences, that’s what I’m taking away. I’d like young men to get that as society reverts into individual cocoons.

    When you comment here exalting the virtues of morality and wife and children, I wonder if you actually think that’s a helpful message? And you tend to repeat it dogmatically year after year after year. Young men will face a much tougher path, and it’s not at all helpful imo to repeatedly remind everyone that you’re umc and everything is beautiful and you love your career and you have sex with your wife.

    What’s the purpose? How is that actually supposed to help men figure shit out?

    It’s hollow and solipsistic, and solipsism in men always frustrated me.

    No hate ( you have an odd reaction to criticism ).

  31. Palma

    Anxious Epiphany Phase girl has severe anxiety. Trying to get tips on the best Benzodiazepine (Think: old school Valium) to calm her. (GAD is generalized anxiety disorder)

    Same class of drugs that got JBP into a pickle.

    More anxious than depressed. (SSRI’s are more for the straight depressed.)

    And probably hyper-sexual. In a circular manner, needing to settle on a provider. Even if a provider of emotional tampon-ing.

  32. @PalmaSailor – This shows how women are constantly testing and vetting men as per their internal firmware. And what they say may not be the actual truth. This is why women never seem to know what they want.

    @SJF – Thanks for the wealth of data to help explain some of my observations. I like to hear Dr. Smith and Richard Cooper discuss topics because they come from two different perspectives. Shawn has studied these behaviors in the academic world while Richard has data from men sharing their experiences. I need to order both of their books.

    @Blaximus – I also feel you are correct, we are not in prisoned by our circumstances. You can find people everyday that have lived through horrible circumstances, yet have made a great life for themselves in spite of the challenges.

    My example –

    “They end up “successful” with no men or children in their lives. One I know is in a constant internal struggle trying to be an “independent” woman while fighting her innate desire to be a mother. She has missed her window of opportunity and now has no real purpose in life.”

    This particular woman has been in therapy for the past 15 years. Reasons being as far as I can tell is from attachment issues with her parents. Her mother was cheated on by a previous man and herself has issues with her own mother. Her father doesn’t seem to have a strong presence either. All of these family stories and behaviors are intertwined. She doesn’t trust men, yet is in constant need of approval at the same time. She also doesn’t have strong relationships with other women, go figure.

    All of this therapy is needed to unravel the behaviors she observed as a child and not playing victim to them at the same time. Not to be an asshole, but who wants to wait while this women dissects her childhood and struggles everyday to recreate a new one? She is starting her life over at 40. Most of her life has been caring around all this baggage.

    As Shawn states, it’s best to find a woman that comes from a solid foundation and doesn’t have the red flags Richard has identified. The above woman is attractive and charming, but no guy can put up with her level of crazy once the rose colored glasses come off.

  33. tl;dr moment

    Rollo’s essay can be boiled down to “Your frame, not her frame” and the generous bullet points spell out in detail exactly what that looks like. This is invaluable for a whole lot of men, just about all of us at some point.

    @WalaWala
    “Platonic intimacy” – lol, sigh. Some people never get out of mid high. This is just a really extended version of LJBF, except with extra helpings of stupid sauce when the “xirs” need to bond with someone but reject biology.

    Newguy
    As Shawn states, it’s best to find a woman that comes from a solid foundation and doesn’t have the red flags Richard has identified

    No kits with “some assembly required”. A lot of men have family members like that and don’t need to go out looking for more of it. This plays into 20th century romantic crap about how “You complete me! You’re my other half!” & etc. that reduces to the “soulmate” myth. In lifeguarding techniques are taught to keep drowning persons from climbing all over you and dragging you down also, the analogy into relationships should be obvious.

    The “strong, independent women” who are on multiple mood-altering compounds / drugs are by definition neither strong nor independent. That girl Palma refers to – her hindbrain would be in better shape if she’d gotten knocked up 4 – 7 years earlier and pushed out a couple of babies. She’d have mommy-anxiety that’s grounded and limited rather than free-floating anxiety basically over ghost stories that she tells herself.

    I keep seeing references to women on drugs, it’s obviously an issue. Ironic that 50-60 years after Betty Friedan articulated the “problem with no name” that problem is more widespread than ever before.

    Circling back to Rollo’s OP: whose frame this is? That “strong, independent” woman on multiple drugs, does she even have anything like a real frame? For sure no man should be in that mental space, because it’s too fluid, too constantly tossing around. Every man reading had an ancestor, if not a grandfather then a great grandfather, who knew perfectly well whose frame needed to dominate. Might not have put it in those words, but a lot of Rollo’s bullet points would be no-brainer in the “of course”! category.

  34. “I’m so proud to have Ralph as my husband. He is a great captain of the ship, and I love having him at the helm. We’re all very lucky to be with him, to share his dreams, to be a part of them, and to embrace each other and love each other so much.”
    –Ricky Lauren

    If you want to catch a glimpse of Mission, Frame, the role of a woman in a man’s life – and DPA in action – check out the documentary Very Ralph

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b3T8ttxTX-I

  35. ” Of all the women I interact with, very few are what I’d call happy. Only the very young ones that are still living the dream. Anything approaching 30 is looking around at their life options – men – job – lifestyle, and getting very worried at what they’re seeing which summarised is:

    They’ll have to do it for themselves bc there aren’t many men that can carry them. “

    +100

    My dad busted my balls once by saying ” why is it that when you take a wife, you send her to college, get her a degree and a better job? Just how much confidence do you have son? “.

    It’s because I believe I’m strong enough to control the relationship. Association with me has benefits, as long as your not batshit crazy and show ( non verbal) recognition.

    And make me fine breakfasts and dinners before and after work.😁

  36. That’s why Yareally used to call us ” omg’s ” and made fun of what he thought was a mindset shared by all. That was his experience. We’re all old and out of touch and don’t understand what young men face.

    Yareally was a pussy. A harpy little bitch who knew game tactics. Big fucking deal. He was also mightily delusional about marriage, relationships, polyamory, divorce and raising children.

    Recently my son and I had a conversation about the generational differences of his and mine. I let him talk and share what he thought. Much of it was actually minor and related to modern tech and slight shifts in culture. I didn’t lecture him back, would have been pointless for him right now. He is figuring some stuff out but has much to learn and he is embracing it. He is focused on himself, school and learning how to take care of himself. He could care less about anything to do with red, blue, white, green and purple pills. Good for him.

    About how tough it is for young guys, or any old fuckers in the peanut gallery.

    Who amongst us has cleared a forest with an axe, mule/horse and bare hands? Then prepped the soil for planting?

    Who has built a barn with nothing but a few simple hand tools and the help of family or good neighbors?

    Who has plowed a field with nothing but a farm animal and a simple plow? For that matter anybody here ever turn a spade a few thousand times in one day to make their own garden?

    Who has made it through multiple winters near starvation with wife and kids all barely surviving due to cold, lack of food or any medicines?

    How about fighting off wild critters like panthers, bear, coyotes, wolves and mountain lion?

    Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?

    But muh hypergamy!!! But Tinder! But but but….

    Getting the picture? All this fucking whining is pathetic bullshit. Just shut the fuck up and do the work for fucks sakes. Get off the keyboard and get outside and do something with your life instead of constantly larping here.

    Life can be hard at times. Doesn’t mean it will always be hard. All this worry about getting pussy and how terribly hard it is. FFS go cut down just ONE tree by hand, no chainsaw. Then clear out the roots with your axe and bare hands. Then come back to talk about how hard life is. GO LIVE. Do shit with yourself. Make good use of your time and get the hell outside for crissakes.

    Fucking crybaby shit about social media, the Feminine Imperative and those evil girls and their hypergamy. FFS

    Without the Red Pill, without the insight to question his conditioned belief-set, this mindset is impossible to break in a guy.

    No, the red pill is not required.

    There was no “red pill” to help men clear a forest or fight off wolves. FFS enough of the these made up terms to satisfy the need to sell a book or convince young men their futures are fucked.

  37. Well, I got the plow thing covered, and the barn thing, but I’m fucked with the rest of the list. I’ve chopped down a couple of trees one at a time.

    Those were things the older generation made is learn/do. And thank God. Getting punched always paled in comparison to getting kicked by a mule.

    Lol, I don’t see Yareally as a pussy. I learned a lot from him while he was here, and I was hoping to teach him some stuff if he’d hung around longer. Even if I didn’t agree with some of his views, at least I understood them.

    Young men will have a harder time because of what they know and believe. Those things alone allows them to make things harder on themselves. It almost renders them unreachable. Try talking a Blood out of being a Blood. Every single one I’ve every talked to have their own vision of how tough everything is, while not understanding that they and people that think like they do create and perpetuate all that toughness.

    I’ve said it before, I really believe that social media is the downfall of young people in general. But even here we hear tales of tinder and various dating sites, and how to approach girls online.

    After ordering food from Grub Hub.

    Explaining why this isn’t a great idea is akin to explaining to a heroin addict that shooting heroin isn’t a good long term life strategy.

    You’re old and out of touch. That’s supposed to shut conversation down.

  38. “FFS enough of the these made up terms to satisfy the need to sell a book”

    b r u t a l

    Yeah after all these years I think all the most important concepts I learned from Rollo that I couldn’t have learned by myself (or would’ve taken a long time without them at least) were Alfa Fucks Beta Bucks, Just Get It ™, and Hypergamy Doesn’t Care. The rest is just noise. Understand these concepts and then just live your life. Experience will tell you what to do from there.

  39. “Who has plowed a field with nothing but a farm animal and a simple plow?”

    Well, my brother liked to boast that he was big and strong like ox, but I don’t think he would’ve appreciated actually being called a farm animal.

    ” Bueller? Bueller?”

    Clytemnestra? Circe? Penelope?

  40. “Understand these concepts and then just live your life. Experience will tell you what to do from there.”

    It’s actually not that easy.

    I wonder what legacy you have at this point in your life.

    I’ll ask you a question J.

    Where have you come from? Where are you at? And where do you wish to be?

    Bait questions.

    But do tell. Who are you?

    Do you live to tell your father your worth as a son? An admittedly harsh question.

    But imagine someone is judging you outside of yourself.

    And the question isn’t how much you are getting off with your circle of life girls.

    Who the fuck are you? And what is your legacy? Now and in the future.

    And act as if I’m not judging. Lol.

    Act as if us old guys with legacy’s don’t know what young guys hold for truths. Where do you hold your truth and want to act for in the future.

    What do you seek and what do you hold true?

    What would you want your legacy to be?

    What would you want on your tombstone? Fucked a lot of Baes?

  41. “Who has plowed a field with nothing but a farm animal and a simple plow?”

    Ah, a jumped-up pantry boy
    Who never knew his place –This Charming Man, The Smiths…

    I usually use my John Deere 5420 with a JD 390 flail mower. When Plowing down. But then when planting, my heavy duty disk harrow. And then the spike harrow.

    https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/Derm95/Vetch%20in%20Rye/DSC_2570.jpg

    https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/Derm95/Vetch%20in%20Rye/DSC_2568.jpg

  42. “Not a simple plow….”

    What don’t you understand about metaphors and analogies?

    And/or what is your need to swing your dick and Jordan Belfort swing dick? Big balls and all?

    And discount lots of past adventures and gone through hard times stuff? Puff the magic dragon. Must throw punches or have hard times when single or nothing.

    Can’t have Anna Karenina Principle good handle on all your shit. That’s not a thing, right? Rose bushes and all…

    Thing is Blax, you have your shit handled. And so do I. But you want your boys to do so too. But you make lists as a parent type instruction. But you notice no follow through because it isn’t healthy follow through. Top down. Instead of bottoms up self directed behavior.

    If you can’t get best behavior right, you can’t self direct your boys. And just to be precise it does involve moral direction. And you nailed it: right choices. But right choices are arbitrary.

    So keep trying.

    And I make an odd comment on observing something odd. But not really.

    A lot, a lot, of manosphere content providers, and commenters actually don’t have any sons. What’s with that? As far as caring and demonstrating and leading them.

    Blax can slough off the idea the idea of transgenerational transference of values all he wants and go all Conan the whatever on that.

    But it’s mere a power war.

    Good Luck With That

    https://therationalmale.com/2015/02/02/the-art-of-amog/

  43. For the record, I don’t have ” behaviors “, best or otherwise.

    I too don’t have sons, yet at the same time I have a hundred.

    You talk sideways. It’s feminine. Little jabs.

    Roused had a specific list, and in SJF fashion, it flew over your head at hypersonic speed. A John Deer isn’t a mule and plow. One is ” easy “, one is more difficult. A horse is not a 737.

    I’ll teach young men to at least understand the difference.

  44. Copy paste for today –

    Part of why it’s easy for anyone to see themselves, or the groups they belong to, as super moral is because morality itself is a vague concept. “You can have one person, for instance, who cares very deeply for their friends and family and would go to the ends of the earth for these people,” Tappin says. “And yet they don’t, say, give a dime to foreign charity. And then you’ve got another person who spends their entire life donating money overseas, yet in their interpersonal life, perhaps they don’t treat their family members very well. In those cases, how do you compare who’s more moral? It seems quite impossible to judge and it’s just at the mercy of people’s preferences.”

    A man’s morals are his morals. They don’t really say anything about anyone else.

    Re: J

    He’s fine. Most 24-25 year olds don’t have a legacy.

  45. Yes, 100%, to the first list. I almost take all this for granted now, been living this way for ~20 years. Actually makes me a bit less sympathetic and understanding of others (both men and women), but I try.

    There’s a certain amount of irony in this topic. If you put her first, put her on a throne, neither of you will end up satisfied. As Roisy/Rollo said, she doesn’t actually want to be first in your life. It’s a gigantic shit test.

    I’ve figured out that, while women will always follow an alpha, what they can do is learn to see their own husbands literally as AF and BB, hunk/provider, at the same time. This is what I am to my wife. I’m no real alpha at all, but to my wife I am king of my household and master of my domain. She sees me this way because she believes God established this order, and what our church expects of all wives.

    So you can’t negotiate desire, but you can create conditions where it’s easy for her. 1) It’s the only option you get, 2) God literally tells you that your husband is your commander-in-chief, to obey him, and 3) This is modeled by your cultural bubble.

  46. @SJF

    Thanks for your consistency and insight. Your message remains coherent and helpful time and again.

    @ J

    You mentioned three good ones, yet they have something in common: they are female-focused. All that is fixed by this 4th, being MPO (Mental Point of Origin), and, ultimately FRAME. In fact MPO and Frame are what the original post is all about.

    Strongly recommend paying attention to these two in your life. They’ve helped me the most.

  47. I’m experiencing something like this, a certain discomfort in seeing woman doing things just to be with me, going after my attention and the likes. Then I remember this is just my bluepilled self resisting. But it’s good to also know my redpilled self is conscious to help me make the right decisions.

  48. Anything and everything, in return for Queen C*nt.

    Things are the way they are because most prefer them to be the way they are.

    The right response is, then, “fine”. And if you don’t like it, you exit the game ( maybe all games, if you don’t like games).

  49. Jeff Costelo
    I’m experiencing something like this, a certain discomfort in seeing woman doing things just to be with me, going after my attention and the likes. Then I remember this is just my bluepilled self resisting. But it’s good to also know my redpilled self is conscious to help me make the right decisions.

    Good stuff. Thinking carefully is a plan, overthinking is not. You are the prize, not the girls.

  50. I’m listening to A Beautiful Day By U2. and then Whatever it Takes by Imagine Dragons.

    That was my wife and I in the middle of the picture. Surrounded by our shiny, happy, country club, social circle.

    A Fleeting image.

  51. Mihc
    Things are the way they are because most prefer them to be the way they are.

    Most men aren’t aware there is an alternative. That’s one reason this site exists.

  52. SJF

    A Fleeting image.

    Well said?

    Do you think your kids will be in a similar picture? Your grandkids? All you will have to pass on to them is the husk of whatever if left over after the Viking cruises and winters in Naples.

    How long will this merry go round go rounding?

  53. Life can be hard at times. Doesn’t mean it will always be hard. All this worry about getting pussy and how terribly hard it is. FFS go cut down just ONE tree by hand, no chainsaw. Then clear out the roots with your axe and bare hands. Then come back to talk about how hard life is. GO LIVE. Do shit with yourself. Make good use of your time and get the hell outside for crissakes.

    Fucking crybaby shit about social media, the Feminine Imperative and those evil girls and their hypergamy. FFS

    A metaphor. For getting outside. YaReally was a fleeting image.

    A chainsaw is a fine proxy for a cut down a tree by hand.

    https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/Derm95/20170329_130048_zpse4hadkfj.jpg

  54. @ Sentient

    I have no idea what you are asking.

    I’m not a nihilist.

    My kids will do fine. ( and Jesus, they have a shit ton of capital to back them up when I’m gone. And I think yours will too. So it goes to wise decisions after that. And FreeWill. Go figure. And the more you put the platinum rule on the table for your kids, the more FreeWill they have. And they will choose wisely. Or not…)

    How about your children? Are you confident in their future.

    I am in mine.

  55. Do you think your kids will be in a similar picture? Your grandkids?

    Pretty straightforward questions.

  56. “Pretty straightforward questions.”

    I foresee my kids and grandkids to be fine.

    But I don’t actually think about it, because they have the tools to be fine. And it’s not in my wheelhouse to worry about it.

    And you?

    What’s your thoughts?

  57. I foresee my kids and grandkids to be fine.

    I asked if you saw them in your picture in your club at your age. Not if they will be “fine”. [FINE – Freaked Out / Insecure/ Neurotic / Emotional btw]

    You’re not a boomer, so this boomeresque posturing doesn’t suit you. Look around.

    Look back… look at your great grandfathers UMC and UC. Was it better or worse than yours? How many of those houses even exist anymore? [not demolished and subdivided or museums – shit you can’t even get those raw materials anymore] How much grander and more numerous were the deb balls in his day? How long were the honeymoons? How much silver and china did the brides get? How many servants did their bells summon?

    Compare to yours in 2020… Project out forty more years…

    Fine?

    People in favellas are “fine”… [shrug]

    https://zachpetersonrio.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/favella-aboave.jpg

  58. I’m not sure what you are implying Sentient.

    Welcome to the shit show? Or whatever? You don’t like the future of your son?

    What is your point?

    And my kids are actually doing very well.

    28 and 25.

  59. My point is you should take some time out from crowing about how great everything is in UMClandtopia because if you look around you will see that life contracting – as it’s been for a very long time – and think about the implications of that for your kids and grandkids. It’s not a bulwark and those skills aren’t coupons to be clipped.

    But frogs do get boiled.

  60. That life is not contracting.

    I’m in it and I have observation skills.

    That is you saying it.

    Not me.

    And things are not actually degenerating.

    Whether it be the buffers or whether it be the fortitude and the skills.

    I’m not sure why you are saying life sucks, Sentient? And will degenerate?

    It doesn’t actually.

    Why is this a thing?

    And what the fuck?

  61. I’m in it and I have observation skills.

    I asked you to compare the current and contrast it with your grandfather’s and great grandfather’s UMC and UC. You’ve not done so. You just put your fingers in your ears and say “Life is Beautiful”… lol

    Soup’s about to be done…

  62. My kids will do fine. ( and Jesus, they have a shit ton of capital to back them up when I’m gone. And I think yours will too. So it goes to wise decisions after that. And FreeWill. Go figure. And the more you put the platinum rule on the table for your kids, the more FreeWill they have. And they will choose wisely. Or not…)

    But what if the fiat based capital fails?

    Are you saying that your kids and grandkids will be ” fine ” because of capital?

    In all of the reading you’ve done, have you ever read a real set of history books? Hell, have you ever read a set of American history books?

    Capital?

    I see sentient’s point. It’s based in actual facts on the ground. ” kids and grandkids ” have been doing worse comparatively, and it’s got ZERO to do with free will, smart choices, or any of that stuff.

    I mean, it is fascinating to try to see any logic in what you’re saying.

    Frightening actually.

  63. But…bbut…bbuttt

    Cash and assets never ever ever ever get devalued. It’s never happened anywhere in history, especially not here. And gov’t wouldn’t seize property. It’s unconstitutional ( not ).

    I know because in 2004 I was schooled by very smart guys that assured me that housing prices would only to up, not down, so I’d be foolish not to buy a 200,000 house that was priced at 300,000 4 years after it’s last sale. Comps don’t lie.😁

    Yeah, I don’t have a Crystal ball but I’m highly concerned for my kids/family’s future. I understand how money is created, who creates it, and who collects the interest. I’m concerned when the Fed keeps chopping rates and creating inflated credit market. Because even though I stay away from these things, I’m at risk – because capital/money.

    Everyone here is affected by choices made by others. The more dough you have, the more you’re affected over time, putting your kids at risk.

    How can a father not see these things?

    The sky isn’t falling, but shit isn’t find and wonderful either, and the future is unknown regardless of what you have today.

    Ignoring it only makes things worse when your shit gets lost or outright taken. Better to prevent a fire than have to fight a firestorm. My 401k’s and IRA’s and annuities and stocks and insurance can pretty much go away if this crazy shit goes sideways. Positive happy thinking won’t prevent that either.

    I’ve been working 42 years now. I’ve only been really earning for the last 25. I’ve busted my ass and burned 100 candles at both ends. But I’m under zero illusions that I’m ” safe “.

    My picture isn’t on one fucking dollar.

  64. @Everyone on the worrying about their kids:

    I think SJF has one thing right. He doesn’t worry about it. That is the correct approach, even if it really does look like he is coming to the not worrying from the wrong place or justification.
    If you can do something about it, then do, if you can’t, then don’t worry about it.

    I don’t have kids and I don’t want to.
    One of the reasons I didn’t want to (but by far not the main one) is I do think things are going to shit in the not so far future.

    In any case, I’m pretty sure that in the far, far future (billion years) any genetic legacy of anything living right now on Earth will be wiped out by Entropy. I’d say chances are high it won’t take nearly that long though, particularly if you care about “human genes” rather than other lifeforms which are far more resilient than us, regardless of how much technology we may develop (technology which may very well be the mechanism of an early wipe out).

    So the only plausible reason to have children, as far as I’m concerned, is because you want to (cue Platinum rule).

  65. You guys are idiots. It ain’t only the capital.

    All you have to do is be in the room with my son or daughter (and her husband) and know by associating with them, that they will be finer than most anyone else, no matter what happens.

    They are fine beings.

    I don’t see doom and gloom, generation-ally. What’s the point of that? To tell my kids not to have kids?

  66. @Roused and the rest of you yuppies.

    If (the longest word in the english language,but seriously) I bought the 40 next door to you and hand dug and built a two seater, tilled and planted a garden, built a cabin or strawbale house sans permits then moved all my spare parts cars without tags in . Would you come over for dinner or complain to the authorities because your wife is scared.

  67. Vague. The only thing that’s clear is capital.

    This ain’t about worrying at all.

    Well, if you want me to piss you off even further, Blax. Wait till I tell you what key factor I see in my family is the inter-generational transfer of intelligence. My parents and my wife’s parents were intelligent and socially graceful, my wife and I are more so, are children are more so. And not just IQ. Adept at playing not to lose. (Which is admittedly a dirty four-letter-word in the Manosphere.)

    Henny Penny/Chicken Little…

    @Wahoo McDaniels

    I (from the city) bought the 40 next to the rural folk and proceeded to act like a rogue Olliver Wendell Douglas. And pretty much everyone around liked me for what I could give them. And it wasn’t just physical stuff. And it was no small task.

    And to answer your question. No question I would come over for dinner. And a beer and a campfire, over and over. And I wouldn’t let my wife get scared. I’d even come over and help you with chainsawing.

  68. Private schools have lomg been a hallmark of the UMC/UC demographic. How many are increasing enrollment YoY and how many are decreasing?

    Tuition is getting out of control. The average tuition for a K-12 private day school for the 2008-09 school year was approximately $17,000, according to data collected by the National Association of Independent Schools (NAIS), a membership organization that consistently puts out enrollment reports on the sector. In 2019, the average yearly tuition for a private day school with all grades is $26,000, an increase of about 53 percent over the last decade. After averaging estimates for 5-day and 7-day boarding schools, average annual tuition during the same period jumped from $37,000 to 51,000, almost 38 percent. Meanwhile, median household incomes have increased about 8 percent in the past 10 years.

    https://hechingerreport.org/a-private-school-resets-its-tuition/

    81 percent of principals and 89 percent of chief financial officers said they planned to continue raising tuition above the rate of inflation.

    https://www.nais.org/articles/documents/member/tuitiontrends_final.pdf

    Again – what are the implications for your kids and grandkids?

    I have a very good idea What you are going to say. So with that in mind – remember – when they start throwing onion and garlic, maybe some tarragon, in the pot – it is NOT for your benefit…

  69. @SJF – I asked about the “never had a fight” thing because I was genuinely curious. I don’t understand how that is possible that’s all. It is obviously possible (you’ve done it) – it just seems astonishing to me.

    And I was a socially introverted nerd who grew up in an uber-sheltered environment that was every bit as UMC as yours (a bit more diverse in terms of experiences – I lived abroad for some time etc, but still). I didn’t grow up having fights like Sentient and Palma and Blax and so on.

    College (first time living by myself) was a total culture shock. But even I got into a few scuffles in college – mostly with one friend who knew exactly how to push my buttons, plus a bar confrontation gone awry as freshmen when a few of us had our asses handed to us after one of us (the same guy who I would get into fights with a couple years later) mouthed off to the wrong guy at the bar and he and his friends decided to teach the college kids a lesson. We got away with nothing more than bruises thankfully – it could have been worse.

    I’m no hardened street fighter but it sure taught me a sharp lesson about the “real world” out there.

    Same goes for how society is declining btw. I am really struggling with how you cannot see that – perhaps if you only read the New York Times or other mainstream stuff you may not notice – but here? Way out of the mainstream, with a bunch of guys you’ve known online for years trying to make you see?

    It’s Blax who says there is more than one Red Pill right? My 30s were a profound awakening in more ways than one – I found the Red Pill here, but I also learnt to see the world around me for the first time – see it properly – and step out of my coastal liberal elite bubble (I had a discussion here with HABD a few months ago about the writer who I stumbled on who opened that particular door for me, a guy called John Michael Greer – back in the thread where HABD was talking about the “good ole boys” making The List of who they were going to take out locally.

    And that change was as big as this Red Pill – to the point that I often feel like a fraud in discussions about culture and politics and development – so many things – with my friends because my opinions are so far away from theirs that I would not even know where to begin to explain myself to them and theyw ouldn’t understand anyway (even if they had open minds, it’s a process that took me years).

    I even took up a serious hobby for most of the last decade that is mostly done by working class men in/from flyover country – and not a college degree or country club in sight. It was a coincidence – I did it because I thought it was fun – but it had the effect of reinforcing everything I learnt from John Michael Greer – and also helped me understand those guys when I had to fight to be accepted and become part of the gang, in spite of my money and my accent and where I came from (they were always nice enough – but being accepted was a different matter altogether).

    Anyway one of my biggest concerns about my future kids is how to teach them to survive and thrive in an uncertain world and give them the “street” (for want of a better word – but it’s about much more than the literal street) awareness and skills and risk management abilities they will need in an uncertain and declining world despite being in the UMC wealth bubble (suggestions welcome..).

  70. Sentient, median income people don’t send their children to private schools. Median income people aren’t even close to middle class although they should be as that would change perspective greatly. Private schools are self supporting?

  71. SJF

    Lol, you’re not pissing me off at all. I’m interrogating you because I’m trying to understand you. I have a couple of friends that have the exact same mentality that you state here. I’m still trying to understand them as well.

    My friends believe that they are doing things in life that set them apart from ” everyone else “, and that their success is solely due to ” right choices ” and ” good genes ” and ” optimism ” and ” who they know ” and ” where they live ” and ” bank accounts “.

    But because of proximity, I.can see what’s actually happening. They just have a different/delusional take on things. Anne because we’re friends I only ask them to consider the broader picture because it will affect them eventually….or their brilliant, wonderful, super nice kids.

    One of my friends, that I’ll see today in fact, says I’m a hypocrite because I stack dough, and sent my kids to ” the best ” schools, but what he ignored is that my parents couldn’t help. This was 100% my creation starting from basically zero. When you start at the bottom, you don’t fear the bottom, and you don’t have to pretend it’s not there or that the inhabitants are not intelligent or did something wrong. I understand that life is more complicated than ” I’m good ” because nobody lives in a vacuum ( in reality).

  72. https://news.artnet.com/app/news-upload/2017/03/diane-arbus-1008×1024.jpg

    I’m the only one in my family (three brothers) or my parent’s 13 grand-kids that went to a private college. And my kids are out of college three to six years ago and have no college debt.

    I’ll be dead when my grand-kids enter college. And I don’t really care what they do. They’ll be fine. If not I won’t have control.

    Maybe they will play in the park with hand grenades. What is the point of making the point that civilization is swirling downward. They still have to live in it.

    What is one person going to do about it? The answer: everything they can.

  73. Wahoo

    I’m well acquainted with who goes to private schools – having put five kids through them at a 7 figure plus cost, served on numerous committees and Boards and Foundations. And I’m well acquainted with the enrollment challenges these institutions face and the number of “median income” families in the demo ($300k plus) who are on financial aid.

    Self supporting? LOL. Not in the UMC. A very small number of very small UC schools only. The one percent getting very more one percentier.

    SJF –

    My parents and my wife’s parents were intelligent and socially graceful, my wife and I are more so, are children are more so. And not just IQ. Adept at playing not to lose.

    Lot of folks in places like St Petersburg, Warsaw, Vienna, Hong Kong shared similar views and walked away from a lot more.

  74. “One of my friends, that I’ll see today in fact, says I’m a hypocrite because I stack dough, and sent my kids to ” the best ” schools, but what he ignored is that my parents couldn’t help. This was 100% my creation starting from basically zero. When you start at the bottom, you don’t fear the bottom, and you don’t have to pretend it’s not there or that the inhabitants are not intelligent or did something wrong. I understand that life is more complicated than ” I’m good ” because nobody lives in a vacuum ( in reality).

    I already told you, my father was a nice guy, but he specifically told me: “I want my kid to have every opportunity to go to college that I did: None” He paid his way through dental school with a job as a pharmacist. He paid all his own tuition. My mother helped me out of motherly love with half my tuition. And I got in before the price increases. I did pay $250,000 tuition for my kids, willingly, over-ruling my wife, also.

    And I didn’t grow up in your fabled vacuum. My life was very complicated by “things”, otherwise know as roadblocks and hurdles. I just choose not to remember them. It wasn’t a cakewalk going to an academically challenging undergrad college, medical school and two separate residencies, right?

    And how does not getting into a fistfight change that, actually? And I advocate for intelligent choices for anyone going forward. Whatever that may be.

  75. Sentient

    Damn 5??!!??

    I hear you loud and clear. I only put 2 through private school.

    I’ve been fighting for public school reform, and even thought my kids are out of the elementary/high school thing, there’s no reason that public education where I live needs to be as shitty as it is.

    And I live around these poorly educated folks somewhat ( ie: close enough to be a concern at times, lol. )

    I’ve watched some parents struggle mightily to keep their kids in private school. One job loss away from catastrophe, taking second jobs, stuff like that. It helps if someone,.anyone else can just write checks but most working people don’t have it like that.

    So it’s about more than just good choices.

  76. @Sentient
    “I’m well acquainted with who goes to private schools – h……”

    Then why post some stupid article that compares the price of private schooling to the increase in median incomes? Did you learn to do that in a private school?

Leave a Reply to theasdgamer Cancel reply

%d bloggers like this: