The Truth About Standards

Most men never vet women for anything like long term acceptability. A lot of guys would have you believe they have high standards for the women they self-righteously allow into their lives, but for the most part this is internet posturing from Trad-Cons and ‘spergs‘ who’d like their circle of virtual friends to believe they have more options, or more learn-ed wisdom, than other men. After-the-fact rationalizations about how discerning a guy was in choosing his wife or girlfriend are a necessary insulation for men’s egos when they come into the Red Pill community. They get uncomfortable when the Red Pill Lens forces them to take a better look at their own choices.

The flip side to this are the guys who’ve already been burned by a woman, and by association the totality of Gynocentrism. They also tend to reverse engineering their lack of vetting. A wife who was once his Quality Woman becomes the bitch who turned on him – the living example of all women and their Hypergamous nature. Likewise, these guys never truly vetted their ex. In someways they may have been as equally naive about the nature of women as the guy still married and self-convinced that he’s done his due diligence in selecting the perfect mate.

Now add to all this a religious belief-set that is founded on marriages staying solid foundations of family formation and resistant to divorce (thus ensuring contentment and righteous living). Here we add another layer of self-blinding on top of men’s haphazard long-term mating strategy founded on his necessitousness. Surely a man’s true religion is the key to a loving and happy wife, appreciative children, strong family ties and quality of life? Men will always seek validation in the choices they invested their lives in – particularly in the face of realities that contradict them.

All of this is related to men’s long term mating strategy. I’ve written extensively on men’s innate mating strategy and the existential importance of men ensuring their own paternity. But just as women’s Hypergamy is a manifestation of their biological nature, so too are men’s imperatives in their own mating strategies. However, a distinction needs to be made with respect to Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks equalist comparisons with women’s strategies. Men and women’s mating imperatives are both antagonistic and complementary depending on the nature of the men and women coming together to reproduce.

Men’s innate, unconditioned, biological imperative is unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. Left to his own volition, and unimpaired by women’s Hypergamous filtering strategies, men’s innate drive is to opt for variety of sexual experience.

Critics will counter with “Well, women look for variety too dontcha think?”

While there is some truth in this, women’s desire for broader sexual experience is motivated by a search for better quality in the men she has sex with, not quantity per se. Monogamy (as we know it) is really a tool for low SMV men to socially ensure reproduction and paternity (at least in theory).

For men the motivation is about quantity. Yes, men love variety in women. Yes, men would rather there be no hindrance to getting to that sexual experience with that variety. This is why pornography is ubiquitous today, and has always been a motivator for men – unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. There’s a reason why young Muslim men are promised 70 virgins in paradise if they martyr themselves. Variety and ensured paternity, even if it has to be in the afterlife, is clearly a strong motivator for men. Rockstars and religious zealots all strive for the same goal, they just come to it in different ways.

Priorities

Men are so motivated by sexual experience that it supersedes the need for food. Research shows brain cells specific to men fire up when mates are present and override the need to eat. Take this as you will, but it does reinforce the idea that for men, sex is in fact a biological need.

Left unhindered human (Alpha) males will opt for securing multiple breeding partners; in some cases sequestering them for his long-term use. Locking away harems in secured compounds is something powerful men have done since our tribalistic past. Secure mates – secure paternity with them. There’s a reason why eunuchs guarded harems. The notion that men and women were ever naturally monogamous is an idealistic social convention. True monogamy in the animal kingdom is an extreme outlier. It’s just this prioritization of sexual opportunity that makes vetting women for monogamy compete with reproductive opportunism.

Strategic Pluralism

Most men are not Alpha males. The vast majority of men in this life and in eras past only had sexual access to a precious few women in their lives – if at all. Even in social conditions that rewarded monogamy and punished infidelity men and women have always found ways to manifest their antagonistic mating strategies. As few as 8,000 years ago (post agrarianism) 1 male reproduced for every 17 females. And as few as 4,000 years ago women were out-reproducing men. Again, read and make your own conclusions, but the point is human mating strategies find ways to circumvent social conventions.

On paper, monogamy is not a bad idea. As a social convention monogamy has been a stabilizing force in human evolution, but it in no way aligns with our innate sexual proclivities. Monogamy is a sexual strategy that primarily benefits low SMV men because most men will never experience (relatively) unlimited access to unlimited sexuality outside of pornography.

In Red Pill spheres we encourage men to consider themselves the prize. I personally believe that the most important step in unplugging a guy from his Blue Pill conditioning starts by internalizing the concept of Mental Point of Origin, but why is this often the most difficult step for men? It’s hard to think of oneself as a ‘winner’ when all a guy has done is lose for most of his life. The numbers don’t add up, and all the pep rallies a guy can pay for wont account for much until the day a girl actually responds to the “new you“. Feeling good about yourself is great, but most men want a solution to their sexlessness. Remember, sex really is that important to your male hindbrain. Food < Sex, got it?

According to Strategic Pluralism Theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

From Why Is Muscularity Sexy? Tests Of The Fitness Indicator Hypothesis

A lot of men get confused about the masculine imperative, but for the most part I think Strategic Pluralism Theory outlines most of mens’ mating strategies. In the Pareto Principle I delved into how women separate men into different sub-groups. The popularized oversimplification of this goes something like this:

“20% of men are fucking 80% of women.”

This is a misnomer. Granted, it used to have the good intention of getting men to believe that a small percentage of guys are having sex with a majority of women, and well, it might as well be them, right?

I’m sure that was meant to be a kind of motivational encouragement for guys learning Game, but it’s effectively wrong. The reality is 100% of women are interested in fucking about 20% of guys. We can see this repeatedly illustrated in various online dating stats and the realities of what Tinder has done to the SMP. But that’s the principle, not the practice. Just because a woman wants to get with a twentieth percentile man in no way means she will be getting with that guy. The issue here is the want not the get.

The Scarcity Mentality

Most men live in a state of sexual scarcity. So to implore a man to believe he’s actually the prize, or he should consider himself the prize, is an alien thought to him. Whether he acknowledges it consciously, his hindbrain understands the realities of his present-state sexual market value and it understands the reproductive equation it’s tasked with solving in (hopefully) a prosocial way.

Any time a woman actually shows an intimate interest in a low SMV man he will instinctively overlook the “deal breakers” his rational mind would otherwise give him pause to consider. Remember, sex supersedes hunger in the evolved scope of things for men. There are no considerations for ‘red flags’ with a woman when reproduction is of more strategic importance to his hindbrain.

When I’m listening to shows like Before the Train Wreck I hear the same predictable problems voiced by young men over and over again. There are consistent red flags these man should’ve seen before committing to a woman. And as a third party to this, we’re always dumbfounded by how the guy couldn’t have seen the signs before acting or committing to a woman’s mating strategy in order to facilitate a compromised version of his own strategy. Men’s rational process (particularly young men’s) are bypassed by sexual instinct and the hindbrain realization that his breeding opportunities are few and far between.

75% of college men would agree to have sex with a (semi-attractive) female they just met on campus while 0% of women would do the same with an unfamiliar male. Most men simply do not vet women for long term compatibility. The nature of our biology and our access to reproductive opportunities makes vetting a hindrance to solving a reproductive equation. In short, most men can’t afford to miss out on breeding opportunities.

As I outlined in Instinct, Emotion and Reason, our rational process requires time to be fully useful to us. The Instinct and Emotional processes are far quicker in their assessments and immediate effect on us. While men may innately prioritize reason before emotion, Instinct beats all other processes in speed and efficiency – if not accuracy. In our feminine-primary social order we further complicate (and disadvantage) men today by teaching them that their emotional response is the “correct” one to base decisions on. We conditions men to prioritize the Emotional process from a very early age. Again, all this makes actually vetting a woman for intimate acceptability almost offensive to the average (Beta) man today.

And this discomfort with holding any standards for women to receive his intimate approval also serves women’s sexual strategy.

You Just Got Lucky

There is a social aspect that comes into play with respect to men pairing up with women. As western societies have become more gynocentric the need to establish limitations on men’s mating strategies, and the simultaneous unfettering of women’s strategies, becomes apparent. In short, men simply aren’t allowed to hold standards for women to follow. And it’s offensive for men (not women) to even suggest the criteria women might need to ‘live up to‘ for men’s consideration of commitment.

Rich Cooper’s engagement on this one Tweet should illustrate what I’m getting into here. I’ve seen other variations of this message serve as outrage fodder for local news programs. The point is that a man making even marginal requirements for a man’s investment in a woman is met with extreme hostility. If your goal is getting social engagement there’s no better way to get it than by having the audacity to tell women they should qualify to a man – in any context. The idea that there is a man somewhere on planet earth who would voice his conditions for intimacy with women is unconscionable in gynocentric society.

But why? Why do women and their ‘allies‘ become so incensed by this? Because it commits the cardinal sin of the female power structure; it removes a degree of control away from women’s Hypergamous choice. If a woman must qualify to a man – in any context – it also sins against the maxim of the Strong Independent Woman®:

Never do anything for the express purpose of pleasing a man.

Notice how hostile women become when any man would place conditions on his terms for intimacy/commitment. This is a challenge to women’s unilateral control of Hypergamy in the social order. But more so, it is an affront to women’s Existential Fear:

The Existential Fear in women is that their innate Hypergamous Filter, their Feminine Intuition, might be fooled, and by being fooled she may either die or have her reproductive potential compromised for her lifetime by bearing and raising the child of man who is a suboptimal Hypergamous choice for her – a man who exerted his will over her Hypergamous choosing filters.

That a Beta male would ever hold conditions for his commitment triggers indignation in women.

Even Alpha men must never put terms on their commitment; men should feel blessed that any woman would have them. When Beta men reflexively default to social self-deprecation around their wives or LTR we see this social convention confirmed. We are conditioned to feel “lucky” that a woman lowered her standards to accept a man as her mate.

This is the intersexual poker game women play with men on whole. Entitlement, solipsism, anxiety over optimizing Hypergamy, all that competes with the foreknowledge that her attractiveness will decay over time. Women’s hindbrains know that their sex appeal, their agency in achieving that optimization, is ultimately perishable. Now add to this the anxiety that a Beta male might ‘trick’ her into choosing him as a mate and you can see why the Sisterhood will rally against men holding any demands for their interest in a woman.

Men often acquiesce to the mindset that they ought to feel fortunate that a woman would ever have them. They also foster this necessitousness in other men, usually as a form of Beta Game.

This endemic sense of metaphysical gratitude is what prevents men from even considering having standards for women. It also polices other men from holding standards themselves. How dare you be so arrogant as to expect a woman to live up to your demands? Just be glad the gods took pity on you and granted you a wife when so many Incels are at home with dick in hand. Tsk, tsk.

When a man ever has the temerity to evaluate women’s worth he’s made into a pariah. Today we expel boys from school for making lists rating the girls in their classes. Meanwhile women develop apps to do exactly the same for the men they’ve dated to inform other women. In a fem-centric social order only women are allowed to hold standards. This fact is a manifestation of a larger power dynamic between the sexes today.

A list of qualities a woman should have to please a man, to hold his long-term interests, goes viral and makes the evening news. Those men then become the easy, chauvinistic, villain to hate – “Can you believe that men like this still exist?!”

Eligible Bachelors

In my last post I made mention of how women were in crisis mode about the lack of ‘economically attractive’ men today. The articles about this crisis center on the idea of “eligible” men. Even the wildly popular show The Bachelor is built around the idea of men’s ‘eligibility’ to be considered for women’s approval. Qualify. Prove your quality. Be worthy of a woman’s love. Be ‘eligible’.

A female-primary social order – an order dedicated to maintaining feminine social control – needs to ruthlessly control which man is eligible for women’s consideration. It’s never the other way around. ‘Eligible’ is a way of psychologically maintaining a superior station of value for women.

Always bear in mind, women break rules for Alpha men and make rules for Beta men. But on a social scale it helps maintain the power imbalance if even Alpha men believe the same mythologies as Beta men.

This essay is the first in a series meant to establish a hierarchy of relationship needs that men might consider to help them accurately vet the women they allow into their lives and to enact these standards.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

497 comments on “The Truth About Standards

  1. Hello Rollo. Thanks as usual for a nice post. Don’t take this directed at you but it is annoying as hell to read the blog on the phone and constantly have the window popping up about ”User xxx has commented on [blog post]”; do you know if you can get rid of it or if it is something we readers must adjust in the settings?

    Best

    Edit: Not to sound demanding, but it would be helpful if there would be a search option available on the mobile version as well. Many times I only remember keywords from posts years ago and not the actual title of the post.

  2. Rollo, I want to thank you for being a guiding force for men everywhere. I will be hitting the 3 year mark with my current girlfriend. As this relationship degrades due to her outspoken want for a baby and my refusal, I am reminded by you that it was just my turn. It is time to hit the market place again with the attitude that I am the prize.

  3. Im an Apha male. This realisation took me around 25 years and a full red pill reality sense check to finally come to terms with it. It also took one 7 year marriage and a recent LTR to fully come to grips that I was simply not biolgically created for monogamy and parenthood. I always internally felt that but it took 25 years of dissonance to fully come to terms with this. (and Rollos writings to fully understand this).

    Ive just finished my LTR and I know I will not be mongomous again, Ive accepted my nature. And this is the thing, you have to accept your nature, whatever way it swings for you. I dont think beta males will by nature be able to learn the instictive skills to behave like an alpha male (despit game) and alphas will always struggle with the concept of parenthood and monogomy.

    Its best to accept your nature and make it work for you, not against you.

    I know I will probably get flames for these comments, but Im honestly expressing a perspective which has become crystal clear to me in recent weeks.

  4. This is all completely true. I have 9 women I’m dating and the rules they post on the dating site “friends first”, “coffee and a chat”, “no long distance”, “not looking for hookup” get thrown out the window fast. Had a woman drive 5 hours each way to spend one day. These are “normal” women: teachers, pharmacists, etc.

  5. Most men never vet women for anything like long term acceptability.

    Certainly they don’t vet her for skills such as being aware that if A + B = C, then B + A = C. Or, on that wake, that if yes means yes, than yes doesn’t mean no, and no meaning no, no doesn’t mean yes (likewise for “sure” and “maybe”).
    They don’t vet her for ability to be accountable, or answer for her actions.
    They don’t vet her for ability to be aware that being treated as an equal means being done to her the same that she does to the other person.

    Actually, it would look like they have been vetting her for ability to answer “I never said that”/”I was joking”/”This is bullshit” whenever she is asked about anything she did/said even 5 seconds earlier, and for understanding her preferential treatment as equal.

    Hard work pays over time, and the vetting seems to have been done hard and for a long time indeed, by how copious the harvest is.

  6. Rollo-

    ” I’m sure that was meant to be a kind of motivational encouragement for guys learning Game, but it’s effectively wrong. The reality is 100% of women are interested in fucking about 20% of guys. We can see this repeatedly illustrated in various online dating stats and the realities of what Tinder has done to the SMP. But that’s the principle, not the practice. Just because a woman wants to get with a twentieth percentile man in no way means she will be getting with that guy. The issue here is the want not the get.”

    Gracias.

    I knew I wasn’t fucking crazy.l

  7. Well done Rollo.

    Enjoyable read!

    One thing I’ve noticed as well as been informed by a few honest ride or die chicks over the past 4 decades, is that a woman does not want to ever go backwards ( hypergamy gets foiled ). If a woman ” settles “, it is a blow to her identity that will haunt the fuck out of her, probably forever. Age and the wall will sometimes force a settlement, and that particular man will be in for a rough ride – maybe not today, but it’s surely coming.

    Sometimes that thing is something as shallow as a lifestyle, but the unspoken calculation is that it’s not always that cut and dry. Millionaires get cheated on/cucked too, so what’s the deal?

    The woman riding around in a Bentley will not go back to riding ubers if she can help it at all. Usually it can be much more simple than that example though. It’s about 2 things at the core, masculinity ( the real thing ) and her emotions. Properly stimulated, her emotions will make her jump out of that Bentley at 60 mph into the window of an uber driving next to it, if the man inside the uber is ((( That Dude ))) in her eyes.

    “Most men live in a state of sexual scarcity. So to implore a man to believe he’s actually the prize, or he should consider himself the prize, is an alien thought to him. Whether he acknowledges it consciously, his hindbrain understands the realities of his present-state sexual market value and it understands the reproductive equation it’s tasked with solving in (hopefully) a prosocial way.

    Any time a woman actually shows an intimate interest in a low SMV man he will instinctively overlook the “deal breakers” his rational mind would otherwise give him pause to consider. Remember, sex supersedes hunger in the evolved scope of things for men. There are no considerations for ‘red flags’ with a woman when reproduction is of more strategic importance to his hindbrain.

    When I’m listening to shows like Before the Train Wreck I hear the same predictable problems voiced by young men over and over again. There are consistent red flags these man should’ve seen before committing to a woman. And as a third party to this, we’re always dumbfounded by how the guy couldn’t have seen the signs before acting or committing to a woman’s mating strategy in order to facilitate a compromised version of his own strategy. Men’s rational process (particularly young men’s) are bypassed by sexual instinct and the hindbrain realization that his breeding opportunities are few and far between.

    75% of college men would agree to have sex with a (semi-attractive) female they just met on campus while 0% of women would do the same with an unfamiliar male. Most men simply do not vet women for long term compatibility. The nature of our biology and our access to reproductive opportunities makes vetting a hindrance to solving a reproductive equation. In short, most men can’t afford to miss out on breeding opportunities.”

    Can I get an amen?

    The HB8-9 hottie > vetting, because can’t pass up amazing ” opportunity” and ” luck “. Having sex with a hot girl is never anything to be thankful for or amazed by, and yes, this goes right back to MPoO and seeing oneself as the actual prize in the interaction. The conditioning that leads to this mindset is everywhere though. The shit’s pervasive. That Thirst-Mode trickles down to those ” semi attractive ” females as well, and everybody except the bulk of men benefits.

    Concession. It’s what’s for dinner.

    Growing up one of the strangest sayings I’d ever heard fairly consistently was ” she’s so fine I’d drink her bath water!!” ( said with great enthusiasm ).Even my teenaged brain was like ” WTF???”. It never made any kind of sense in my mind to ever lower myself below or equal to a woman ( misogynist, I know..lol ) because we are different period. It’s not the place of men to submit. Fuck yo bath water.

    I stopped doing field reports because there’s hardly any ” sex ” in what I have to say, lol, but a couple of weeks ago I was accosted physically by a 30 something chick of Indian extraction, maybe a hb7 ( i’m a sucker for long, long hair so my rating gets cloudy as fuck sometimes, but she’s pretty according to coworkers ). She was the aggressive aggressor, but it’s what she said after she tried shoving her tongue into my mouth that triggered me – ” You want to be with an Indian girl? Huh? “, like she was speshul or something.I peeled her off of me and thanked her, and told her ” thanks, but you’d be like….the 10th Indian chick and youre cute and all, but you’re mighty full of yourself “.

    Homegirl just jumped in and tried to snatch all of the Frame. But even if I was hornier than a Brahma Bull that approach would throw cold water on my hard on. I never ever want to have to call in a hostage negotiator to get my Frame back from any woman. You must be willing to walk away at the sign of trouble.

    Which comes back around to Vetting. If you hold frame and keep your MPOoO, how does this make her react? Does she double down on fuckery because she has the pussy, or does she submit and look for direction? You cannot think like this if you believe that a man is ” lucky ” to get sex. Sometimes airlines fucl up and you have to wait 8 hours in the airport to catch your next flight….unless you want to grab the first thing flying out with 5 connecting flights. Relax, and take a nap.The most BASIC part of vetting any woman is how does she react to who and what I am, NOT what do I have to do to get that amazing pussy? Thirst traps are real as hell gentlemen.

    Lol, Rich Cooper’s list. Yeah, a man should indeed have things he requires of a woman in his life. I’ve eaten quite a few burnt assed “breakfasts ” that some hottie was compelled to prepare without requisite cooking skills, but it’s the thought and action that counts first.

    Again, I enjoyed this OP immensely.

    Might read it again.

  8. Post of the year.

    Most men live in a state of sexual scarcity.

    This should be the first line. It sums up so much of male behaviour today.

    I can honestly say that none of the guys I know or have gone sarging with in the last year know anything about Game. They plough into these interactions with women and talk non-stop, escalate too quickly and wonder why they never get anywhere. They ooze desperation.

    It’s why every guy needs to have a rotation and be spinning 3-4 plates–for your own sexual well-being and hers. NO girl wants a thirsty guy.

  9. Women make rules for Betas and break rules for Alphas.
    Men make rules in their head and break them just to get pussy…

  10. Blax, vetting will never find you a ride or die woman…ride or die women are made–and you have to make them into ride or die women–If you are looking for a ride or die woman, you will never be the man for a ride or die woman.

    Shakespeare said it first.

  11. Market dynamics can be highly frustrating for outliers. If no-one in your co-hort (sex in this case) applies the standard you’d like, you won’t be able to apply them either.

    Let’s say I am looking for a woman with a personality solid enough to stand by her words when I remind her of some bawdy utterances she made one day, or minute, earlier, instead of dissociating into another personality and coming out with something like “I was joking”/”I never said that”: can I?

    I haven’t been with scores of women, far from it. But if I have been with ten, and ten out of the ten of them went the split-personality route when tried about that (as well as about so much else: anything critical, basically)… what does that tell me?

    Women are not, indeed, curious beings and variety seekers; however, they don’t fuck around only hypergamously: for instance, another reason why women will look for another sexual partner is to spite their current one:

    [lyrics of a very popular song by a female]:

    [Verse 1]
    You grabbed my hand
    And twisted it, so you had your way
    No need to compromise
    ‘Cause you’ll find the right words to say
    And I’ll give it half a chance
    Alone together, all alone, together all alone

    [Chorus]
    Alone no more, it’s Wednesday night
    Someone is gonna treat me right
    No, not my man gets me this high
    It’s gonna be my neighbour at number 29

    [Verse 2]
    Well, I think I’ll pack my bags and I’ll leave it all behind
    I’m gonna leave it all behind
    No need to compromise
    ‘Cause these are the right words to say
    And I’ll give it half a chance
    Alone together, all alone, together all alone

    [Chorus]
    Alone no more, it’s Wednesday night
    Someone is gonna treat me right
    No, not my man gets me this high
    It’s gonna be my neighbour at number 29
    Alone no more, it’s Wednesday night
    Someone is gonna, someone’s gonna treat me right
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, can’t get me high, baby
    You know, I was talking to my neighbour at number 29
    No, it’s not my man
    It’s not my man who gets me high
    You know it’s funny
    Alone no more

  12. Just because a woman wants to get with a twentieth percentile man in no way means she will be getting with that guy. The issue here is the want not the get.”

    That explains, in my opinion, why so many females conduct themselves along starkly abusive ways in online dating.
    Simply put, they are frustrated by the impossibility to get the grapes actually whetting their appetite, and out of the frustration decide to have a taste of grapes they don’t truly like.
    These grapes are the men they match with, or reply to, but treat abusively since the very get-go (or only match with, and don’t reply to, no matter what message/how good of an opener the man has sent).

    There is also the fact that, while less sexual than men as the blog owner has repeated over the years, women are exclusively sexual.
    (Hence the need to repeat, endlessly, in their profiles as well as to their egos, that they aren’t there for sex, absolutely not! They are there to have intelligent, culturally valuable conversation with men, oh yeah!)

    If you don’t arouse them sexually, and are unlucky enough to have them decide to still talk to you, they will be abusive, and often charge you with being abusive to them. If you arouse them sexually, they will “hahaha” anything you say no matter how stock. Otherwise they will criticize anything you say, no matter how clever.
    And since they don’t know they are exclusively sexual, they believe their rationalisations, and perceive their being abusive as fair conduct. They also believe you are abusing them, when the only abuse you are being responsible of is to leave them dry instead of damp.

    Now culture and the élite who mould it in a country can feed these parts of female nature, or check and discourage them. We aren’t living under élite who want the cohesion of society and well-being of its members (even most women are more depressed than ever, because what happens then is reality frustrates and negates their clinically exaggerated ambitions), that much is obvious.

  13. In a pre-agrarian close-knit society, in small tribes of say a few hundred men, I don’t think the men would have put up with one of the Alphas having a harem. These guys would have gone hunting together (pre-agrarian society), they would have needed social structures to keep male unity intact: i.e., monogamy/marriage. The Betas would need to be satiated. You can see this in primitive tribes today. They all have marriage between one man and one woman.

    Of course, alphas would find a way to spread their seed, and women would find a way to optimize hypergamy via clandestine means; there of course would have been cuckoldry. Alpha males and women would have found a way to express their sexual strategy. But I just don’t see how beta males would allow themselves to be sexless in a small tribal setting without some sort of rebellion or societal breakdown.

    Anyways, great post Rollo as always.

  14. Just sat through 2 hours at a meeting this evening with 90% 35+ women(it’s a committee I am on). It’s amazing how they are basically all the same and it’s same emoting over and over and the “vibes” and “spiritual”.

  15. Now add to all this a religious belief-set that is founded on marriages staying solid foundations of family formation and resistant to divorce (thus ensuring contentment and righteous living).
    Pair bonding and composure https://www.academia.edu/31191375/SPERM_WARS_Infidelity_Sexual_Conflict_and_Other_Bedroom_Battles
    Life as a series of choices (Choose not to be a victim Family first good times or bad)

    (accurately vet the women they allow into their lives and to enact these standards.)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t8xSdtb8Yc
    Embrace the challenge’s

  16. “In a pre-agrarian close-knit society, in small tribes of say a few hundred men, I don’t think the men would have put up with one of the Alphas having a harem.”

    lol @ “pre-agrarian”

    The reality is that cherry picking one set of data, the earth can appear to be millions of years old, while using a different set of data, the earth can appear to be only a few thousand years old. It all depends on which data you cherry pick.

    Is there much historical evidence for a “pre-agrarian” society? You know, deeds, church records, town meeting notes, tribal records? lol

    Here’s a clue–any time you have cities, you have to have agriculture (and slavery in ancient times because it took slaves to grow enough food to feed the cities). Cities go back to ancient times. We have to look at the records of kings for historical data that’s old.

    lol @ “men not putting up with one of the alphas having a harem”

    too much keyboard jockeying

  17. But I just don’t see how beta males would allow themselves to be sexless in a small tribal setting without some sort of rebellion or societal breakdown.

    Yep.

    The tribes that practiced monogamy were more stable and had much more loyal “buy in” from the rank and file and, over time, outcompeted the ones who were practicing different social models.

    Monogamy very well may not be “natural”, but the entire human social order isn’t strictly “natural” either, in the sense that it is just a collection of people who are each following their raw instincts. Monogamy is a social practice that developed among tribes for adaptive reasons — namely to cut down on intra-tribal violence relating to mating access, generate greater buy-in and solidarity among males of the tribe, both of which allowed tribes to grow over a certain size and achieve greater things (like conquering and absorbing other tribes and their space/women).

    It may very well be true that modern society has, by virtue of stripping the need for social solidarity among men due to the raw scope of state power, recreated the kind of context in which monogamy becomes socially unnecessary as a means of preserving societal competitiveness. Kind of a Huxleyian Brave New World scenario. But that doesn’t mean that humanity, when considered as the “social animal” par excellence, didn’t develop monogamy as an adaptation that served the goals of the tribe. Yes it was a beta sex subsidy, but smart human societies that have survived long term have always devised ways to ensure that the low-born were not just endlessly and utterly exploited unto death — at least the ones that stood the test of time did.

    We have to be very careful, when dealing with humans, to avoid baptizing as normal/desirable that which is merely “natural” in a sense that is determined apart from the need for stable social relations — that distorts much more than it enlightens when were are discussing an inherently highly complex social species like homo sapiens.

  18. Hey look at that, my life explained. Again.

    Half the time I didn’t see these things happening all around me. Half the time I did see them, but %100 percent of those times I couldn’t figure out what was going on and didn’t care because blond hair, or smells good, or whatever. What other qualifications did she need?

    And as for any red flags I was able to see in advance, with apologies to the late Admiral Farragut – “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!”

  19. Foxguy

    “Just sat through 2 hours at a meeting this evening with 90% 35+ women(it’s a committee I am on). It’s amazing how they are basically all the same and it’s same emoting over and over and the “vibes” and “spiritual”.”

    Was it by Julien or ADJ? what did it cost?

  20. “I feel a terrifically painful disturbance in the natural law of things between men and women that must be balanced in the next few thousand years. What has been done in the name of holding up masculine energy as God and feminine energy as subservient has really wiped out everything.”
    Rebecca De Mornay Some hot Milf

    Rollo is a trial of 2 yrs a good time frame of seeing the response and character of a women?

  21. “I’m sure that was meant to be a kind of motivational encouragement for guys learning Game, but it’s effectively wrong. The reality is 100% of women are interested in fucking about 20% of guys. We can see this repeatedly illustrated in various online dating stats and the realities of what Tinder has done to the SMP. But that’s the principle, not the practice. Just because a woman wants to get with a twentieth percentile man in no way means she will be getting with that guy. The issue here is the want not the get.” De-bunking Manosphere myths /data misinterpretations. Why would a 20% guy want to fuck a 2 or a 3 when they can have 7-9’s? Even guys will use getting drunk as an excuse for <5’s.

  22. Rudd

    I’m an Alpha male.”

    Maybe you are, maybe not. Alpha doesn’t have anything to do though with monogamy, marraige or having a kid. It has a lot do do with making choices and MPoO.

  23. Rugby

    “Rollo is a trial of 2 yrs a good time frame of seeing the response and character of a women?”

    If there is any doubt, then there is no doubt. That is the time frame.

  24. “The Betas would need to be satiated. You can see this in primitive tribes today.”

    …which has no provable relationship to anything else…

    …but don’t let me stop your keyboard jockeying…

    (somebody ran through the stupid forest and hit every tree…followed by his gang)

  25. To paraphrase the last words of this essay, there’s a big difference between vetting and actually enforcing those standards, just like it is a big difference in society between passing laws and enforcing them…

    One point I’d like to make here is my belief and experience that men change far easier than women do.

    A man can change…it’s hard, it takes work, maybe years…but for a woman to change…good luck…cause you’re going need a lot of it.

  26. “A man can change…it’s hard, it takes work, maybe years…but for a woman to change…good luck…cause you’re going need a lot of it.”

    Lol, how many times did you smack your head in the Stupid Forest?

    Women don’t change–that’s rich. 🙂

  27. “Rollo is a trial of 2 yrs a good time frame of seeing the response and character of a women?”

    First of all, for what?

    And although you can solicit other opinions, you still have to make a decision yourself in real life and in real time…

    Shawn T. Smith, Psy.D, addresses this in a calm, cool and composed clinical way in his book The Tactical Guide to Women: How Men Can Manage Risk in Dating And Marriage (Chapter 7).

    Dr. Smith didn’t write the book from a Red Pill perspective, but is is a pretty well put together book on vetting. Also he has a bias for LTR’s, so don’t get your panties in a bunch if you are not interested in that.

    He comprehensively covers what to look for what to avoid, especially with psychological health and psychological disorders and traits.

    Keep in mind this vetting idea (generally in the manosphere…) is not all it is portrayed to be. It is necessary but not sufficient for LTR’s. There still has to be work of maintenance after commitment of some form. If so desired.

    Part of that answer lies in one’s neuro-chemistry. For LTR’s there is a period of time at the beginning of the relationship when couples are intensely attracted to each other–The Honeymoon Phase. “The sex is great, they find each other’s quirks adorable, and they aren’t the least bit annoying to each other… yet. We’re quite literally in an altered state of mind during those first months of infatuation.”

    Research by Helen Fisher in a report in 2016 reported that serotonin signatures of the blood in moon-eyed lovers lasts about 12-18 months. After that, neurochemistry appears to return to baseline. And then the brain starts thinking straighter and more normal and clearer and partners can then feel more neutral about the other.

    After that, the brain calms down and can reach a state of pleasant relaxation. That’s when the truths and subtleties of her personality will reveal themselves.

    So Dr. Smith recommends at least that long, or out of the obsessed euphoric honeymoon phase (which is inefficient, so much so that one should not dwell in the honeymoon phase) and then perhaps another year.

    Why a year? Because it seems about right to me. Not very scientific, I know, but four seasons of normal, day-to-day joys and trials seems long enough to find out if she possesses clarity, maturity, and stability, and if your personalities are compatible. Yet it’s not so long that you’re wasting her time and yours. –Dr. Smith

  28. foxguy
    ust sat through 2 hours at a meeting this evening with 90% 35+ women(it’s a committee I am on). It’s amazing how they are basically all the same and it’s same emoting over and over and the “vibes” and “spiritual”.

    You can easily impress girls of that age by casually mentioning some exercise or other practice that you do in a “mindful” way. “Mindfulness” is still a thing in the over 35 set. Bonus points for over 40.

    Or if you are ever bored and desiring entertainment of a certain kind, ask one of those girls what her astrological sign is. Then just nod and smile until it is time to leave.

  29. But I just don’t see how beta males would allow themselves to be sexless in a small tribal setting without some sort of rebellion or societal breakdown.

    There’s a lot of variables assumed. For example, historically male slaves often did not reproduce. For another example, polygamy (multiple women) shows up over and over again in human history.

    As Nova pointed out, monogamous societies have certain advantages, but human mating patterns demonstrate that monogamy is not cast in our brains like concrete.

  30. @Sentient
    Was it by Julien or ADJ? what did it cost?

    It was training led by a company that specializes in “inclusion” , there is a lot of spiritual talk and emotional, etc. I didn’t cost me personally any money out of my pocket directly but I’m sure it costs the organization which my committee is a part of of, tens of thousands at least as it’s a multi year program. I sat through it to observe and confirm everything Rollo writes about for the hundredth time, I was more interested in the business con these trainers where running and the tactics they were using , very effective.

    This stuff sells and extremely well, it’s a hustler economy right now , especially as women gain more positions of power, they buy this stuff right up.

  31. To me, the truth about standards is they are double standards.

    Women have tighter, tougher standards for men, than men have ever had for women.

    Men’s standards for physical appearance/attractiveness in women are much much broader than women’s standards for physical appearance/attractiveness in men.

    Men like all kinds of women: everything from super skinny to SSBBW. Everything from tiny tits to monster tits. Everything from tiny little real tits to huge fake tits, and everything in between. Flat asses. Round asses. Real, natural, surgically enhanced, blonde, brunette, redhead, white black brown asian Indian subcontinent polynesian maori black American subSaharan African Mediterranean Middle Eastern Scandinavian Low European. Everything from 18 years old to GILFs. Smart, stupid, dingbat, intelligent, dull, interesting, talented, untalented, nice, bitchy.

    If you are a woman, it doesn’t matter who you are, what you do, what you look like, how old you are, or even how you act. YOU WILL STILL GET MEN INTERESTED IN YOU.

    Women like one, and ONLY one, kind of man: Tall. In shape, low body fat. Masculine facial features: Low hairline (but must have hair or at least be able to grow it), deep set eyes, positive canthal tilt, ears laid back against head, sharp defined jaw line, lantern jaw, prominent chin, straight white teeth. V-shaped taper from shoulder to waist. Defined musculature. Powerful legs. At least average penis size, above average length and girth strongly preferred.

    You must meet, at the very, very least, 85% of the above. You’ll be forgiven for some things if you have others. But have them you must, and if you do not, you are OUT OUT OUT. The very moment you remove your shirt and she can’t see at least some ab definition? GONE. Drop trou with small penis? GONE. Balding at 23? GONE. about 20 to 30 pounds overweight or underweight? GONE. teeth kind of yellow or crooked? GONE. Got Brent Musburger eyes? GONE. Pasty skin? GONE. Bad breath? GONE.

    You will not be forgiven one bit if she finds even one thing she doesn’t like about you. And you’ll never know where you’re falling short.

    You must be unfailingly “Nice” and “kind”. She can treat you however she wants.

    You must conform to all traditional gender roles. She can conform to any roles she wants, or none at all.

  32. thedeti
    Men’s standards for physical appearance/attractiveness in women are much much broader than women’s standards for physical appearance/attractiveness in men.

    Nah, women have different standards than men, because they are not men with boobs.

    Women like one, and ONLY one, kind of man: Tall. In shape, low body fat. Masculine facial features:

    Geeze, deti, you been hanging out at some Looksism site? Frame matters more, you know that.

    You will not be forgiven one bit if she finds even one thing she doesn’t like about you. And you’ll never know where you’re falling short.

    Don’t you even RationalMale anymore? What does “make rules for betas, break rules for alpha” and “alpha is situational” mean?

    You must be unfailingly “Nice” and “kind”.

    No! You must avoid that almost all the time. C’mon, you know better, or used to know better.

    She can treat you however she wants.

    Don’t you even Game anymore?

    You must conform to all traditional gender roles. She can conform to any roles she wants, or none at all.

    Put down the black pills, put The Glasses back on. Plenty of red pills here for ya.
    Who are you and what have you done with Deti?

  33. Anon Reader:

    I’m talking here about physical attractiveness. I’m’ talking here about what women prefer, the physical ideal. What women really want in terms of physical attractiveness. And the physical ideal is Michelangelo’s David.

    Game is important. Personality is important. All very true. Sure, Game can override physical attractiveness. Sometimes. But the point is the desirable physical ideal, and I described that. And physical appearance is taking on increasing importance and prominence as time goes on. Male physical appearance was not always that important. It is now. It is much, much more important now.

  34. On I dunno Deti. I am going to have to disagree somewhat about women having one physical ideal set.

    They ” say” a laundry list of attributes that a man has to have, but look around. I’ve been hearing hundreds of women over my lifetime, with their ” tall and handsome ” stuff. As Rollo says in the OP, that’s a ” want “. More often than not women too will like a variety of types of men, providing they can set off the right emotional combinations.

    This is just a part of the reason many women don’t want to be touched by men they initially don’t find attractive. Men want to believe that it’s solely because they are being mean bitches, but it a man isn’t her ideal, she doesn’t want to take ANY chances that he might fuck around and accidentally pick her locks or arouse her in a way that shouldn’t be possible. So she sets boundaries and force fields and personal space and an unfriendly dismissive stance.

    They. Break. Rules.

  35. @thedeti

    “Men like all kinds of women: everything from super skinny to SSBBW. Everything from tiny tits to monster tits. Everything from tiny little real tits to huge fake tits, and everything in between. Flat asses. Round asses. Real, natural, surgically enhanced, blonde, brunette, redhead, white black brown asian Indian subcontinent polynesian maori black American subSaharan African Mediterranean Middle Eastern Scandinavian Low European. Everything from 18 years old to GILFs. Smart, stupid, dingbat, intelligent, dull, interesting, talented, untalented, nice, bitchy.”

    This is bullshit. Invented by long-haul marketers trying like fuck to rebrand slavery.

    I know what I like and it’s mostly a pastiche of what my mom was and what I think about in private.

    My mom was an aloof stuck up cunt. So before I got therapy to correct that, I was attracted to aloof, stuck up, cunts, and thus was never able to get excited for a chick that would treat me correctly.

    As for how women look, I like chicks with huge tits and am laughing my fucking ass off at how many unimpressive shits are chasing flat-chested snobby cunts because that’s who raised them.

    Your estimation of the situation is flawed. You’re forgetting all the trouble women go through to hide their pasts from certain kinds of men.

    In fact, you want certain kinds of men obliterated so you can maintain the position of most “desirable”. Desirable for what? And then you fall short of that one day and have given women the right to flush you down the toilet. You sound like a male thot right now man.

  36. +1000, Blaximus

    “This is just a part of the reason many women don’t want to be touched by men they initially don’t find attractive. Men want to believe that it’s solely because they are being mean bitches, but it a man isn’t her ideal, she doesn’t want to take ANY chances that he might fuck around and accidentally pick her locks or arouse her in a way that shouldn’t be possible. So she sets boundaries and force fields and personal space and an unfriendly dismissive stance.

    They. Break. Rules.”

    They understand at a visceral level the touching part, I have natural no hesitation touching/playing with both women and men and when a woman is closed off to you for whatever reason she will recoil viscerally at your touch because she knows it’s part of the key.

    They are run by their emotions first and foremost.

  37. @thedeti

    you’re slidin’, bro… check yourself…

    i say this bc it’s true…

    the FI is cunning and pervasive…

    for some reason you are letting the FI affect you more than usual…

    i thought i saw it starting and i wasn’t kidding when i wanted you to answer the question i posed…

    https://therationalmale.com/2019/10/02/are-men-adapting-to-the-new-sexual-marketplace/comment-page-2/#comment-282525

    @thedeti

    “Rollo posts about a paradigm shift going on in the sphere. And it’s degenerating into a discussion about whether bathroom selfies for guys are a bad idea.

    Sheesh.”

    interesting isn’t it?…lol

    i’m guessing, but you think that is bad?…

    and no, i’m not really setting you up…lol… i’m just wanting to illustrate a point…

    so, if you would be so kind as to answer that^^^…

    good luck!

    the point was that even someone like you (or me for that matter) who has spent a lot of time helping men by commenting on the interwebs, is subject to FI influence…

    did you really think commenters trying to help another man increase his percentage of getting laid is ‘bad’?… that bathroom selfie discussion had as it’s goal to do just that… even if it did sort of get into micro details…

    your response to this comment stream sliding off into the weeds was basically starting to try shame men for trying to help another man actually adapt to a given situ….and get laid… the fact that you were annoyed by the focus on the details as opposed to the big picture was telling… of the FI pushing on you…

    men trying to help another man just do the best they can… and THAT includes focusing on the details of that man’s individual situ…

    @Rollo might not be prescriptive, but the rest of us sure are…lol… that’s the whole point behind the FR section…

    and working through those individual situs is the opposite of just giving up/accepting your lot in the SMP… which is one of the main goals of TRM…

    take a deep breath and try to figure out where this ‘new’ outlook is coming from (it might just be denial phase popping back up…) … and shrug off that FI hand on your shoulder…

    good luck!

  38. At my exclusiv gym, There are women of leisure (read: married to money) who come daily and work the routine of spin, cardio class, and weights.
    When I was a younger man, I saw a treasure trove of opportunities, easy pickings in my mind; I was young, fit, and single. I would be willing to take any opportunity that presented themselves.

    Many years later I finally learned a valuable lesson. Eagerness was not my friend. The game being played on me was one of validation. I gave away attention and praise like it was cheap candy. In hindsight I knew that whatever game I naturally had was killed because I was too available. That the beta bucks trumped whatever sexual fantasy they had but they could live with the comfort of knowing I was in their pocket. Because I jumped right in.

    I’m older now. RT has taught me loads and has helped shape me up in simple ways.

  39. Hah.

    Either Deti is providing metaphorical satire.

    Or not. It doesn’t matter.

    There is truth in them there statements.

    It doesn’t matter. You still have to carve out your own niche.

    Geez.

    Can’t you even proceed to live a masculine life that is attractive. Go fucking figure.

    Go out and do your fucking best. WTF?

    Whine and cry.

    Even if true, go prove it wrong.

    Double dare.

    And don’t drop out because of it.

    Everything wrong about what everything wrong is how men double down on thinking wrong.

    There are a bunch of wrong thinkers out there.

    “You Have Too Many Friends on Facebook, Why Your Memory Is Mostly Fiction, an d 46 Other Ways You’re Deluding Yourself”

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052RE5MU/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0

    Don’t be your worst own enemy.

    Don’t guard your ego-defenses.

    Don’t be spergy. It’s simple not to be. It’s not always easy.

    It helps to be able to take your masculine friend’s criticism with equanimity. I really works well. I tested it for working and it works.

    What exactly is incorrect about TheDeti’s statement? Not much.

    What are you going to do about it?

    What?

    He’s making a statement.

    After the grammar, logic and rhetoric. It comes to pass as wisdom. And it’s not for nothing.

  40. Our prehuman ancestors might have been polygamous, but such behavior in inimical to even the least sophisticated of modern human societies. Hunter gatherer or early agricultural societies made up of bands of 50-100 people requires everyone to cooperate, and wouldn’t work with unrestricted polygamy where one or two men get all the young women.

    So if you look at such cultures they have marriage traditions and sexual mores which seek to limit women’s choices and limit polygamy. These are always imperfectly applied, but even so from memory something like 40% of men ultimately get the chance to father children in hunter/gatherer societies, which is much better than if female sexuality were unrestricted.

    “As few as 8,000 years ago (post agrarianism) 1 male reproduced for every 17 females.”
    My impression is this figure is something that only occurred for a brief time when sophisticated agriculture was first developed. This allowed a handful of men to gather so many resources and power, including their own armies, they no longer needed the cooperation of all the men they ruled. They went nuts and accumulated huge harems. But this was unsustainable, resulting in civil war and restrictions on polygamy were imposed again.

  41. @ Chris

    You started good: out of Africa, small tribes of humans developed attributes of the mind for 100,000 years. That had an impact, because of evo-psych over time. The Agriculture time 10, 000 years was different. Large societies rather than small tribes were different. Different, but still with adaptation traits and ways of learning and behaving and evolving (gene wise and cultural adaptation-wise).

    But then you just made statements.

    What is your point? Humans evolved and behave a certain way, or not so certain way, because?

  42. “Research by Helen Fisher in a report in 2016 reported that serotonin signatures of the blood in moon-eyed lovers lasts about 12-18 months.”

    Lol, men are supposed to wait two years to vet women while fucking them? Maybe if the girls are in a rotation a man won’t “fall in love.”

    “Women like one, and ONLY one, kind of man: Tall. In shape, low body fat. Masculine facial features: Low hairline (but must have hair or at least be able to grow it), deep set eyes, positive canthal tilt, ears laid back against head, sharp defined jaw line, lantern jaw, prominent chin, straight white teeth. V-shaped taper from shoulder to waist. Defined musculature. Powerful legs. At least average penis size, above average length and girth strongly preferred.”

    Lol, what women say v. what women do. Women fuck masculine men. There are plenty of tall, muscular pussies out there. And plenty of short, ugly, bald men getting laid like tile.

  43. @thedeti @HABD

    for some reason you are letting the FI affect you more than usual…

    i thought i saw it starting and i wasn’t kidding when i wanted you to answer the question i posed…

    That was a good question. But then our Feels-to-Thoughts-to-Words-to-Thoughts-to-Feels™ converters always make it harder than necessary… especially for dogs and our iron logic… lol

    I agree with @HABD’s intuitions. I’ll add that ignoring/downplaying the ‘details’ perspective is often a buffer to not have to deal with our own ‘personal details’… because that would mean giving up ego investments and status quo… which Doing The Work™ needs to start with. Acknowledge uncomfortable.

    For me, ignoring/downplaying fleezer’s questions was telling:
    https://therationalmale.com/2019/10/02/are-men-adapting-to-the-new-sexual-marketplace/comment-page-2/#comment-282475

    @thedeti, worth going back to HABD’s and fleezer’s comments and re-thinking them.

    Men here will respect you even if you step down from the anthropological/philosophical tower to hit your own sticking points. Our dog brains need to do it every now and then, they’re too tempted to create logical but false narratives. Nothing’s static. Burden, always.

    You’ll be fine sir.

  44. Lol, men are supposed to wait two years to vet women while fucking them? Maybe if the girls are in a rotation a man won’t “fall in love.””

    Who said what?

    The context is actively fucking a woman and deciding. But not deciding in a sperg fashion. Or a girly emotional fashion. In a realistic vetting fashion, based on advice. From Shawn T. Smith. That has seen a thing or two in how couples relate. What don’t you get about that?

    In my world LTR’s are fine. And they work. Esp. for me.

    So in yours ASD. So what are you trying to say about that?

    There is ultimate value in girls in rotation. Until there is not.

    Don’t go all detail spergy. There is the big picture. And I was responding to a specific question. Not detailing a big picture.

    Rugby asked a question. It was a general and specific question. The peanut gallery doesn’t have to trail it on to something bigger.

  45. The call wasn’t for “in rotation”. It was for LTR. Specifically.

    What are you advocating for?

    Despite all the doom and gloom, there are plenty of relationships in fly-over-country that are just fine.

    And I like my recent son-in-law. He’s good.

    And my daughter vetted him for four years. I think.

    And things are great.

    He envoys the spoils.

    What is the adversity? i’m no seeing it. Yet.

  46. Surely even the lowest of SMV men employ at least One standard?

    The Boner test !! If a female doesn’t pass this most basic of biological tests why would ANY man consider having a relationship with her?

    And Boners don’t lie she either arouses you physically or not! You can’t negotiate desire after all and that works both ways.

    Depending what I’m looking for I employ different standards on my potential mates because I can! but even for a drunken ONS the Boner test is a non negotiable Bare minimum.

  47. All this harkens back to most women’s inability to take responsibility for anything they do. Cause and effect is a difficult concept for many. This is why bitching and complaining while doing nothing about it is considered feminine, and why it is such an especially unattractive trait in men.

  48. @ thedeti

    “You must be unfailingly “Nice” and “kind”. She can treat you however she wants.

    You must conform to all traditional gender roles. She can conform to any roles she wants, or none at all…”

    I understand where you’re coming from re women’s standards, but most women these days just aren’t up to a decent standard themselves, so higher quality, attractive men as you described just won’t be interested in them anyways. A man doesn’t have to be as physically together as you surmised, though it certainly does help. A good, confident, masculine persona certainly helps too. I do take issue with the last points you mentioned (above) though. My current squeeze (who is quite slim, sexy and 17.5 years younger than me) responds very well to the tried & tested theory of “treat ’em mean, keep ’em keen!” She just laps this shit up. I continually bat away her shit tests with at times contempt, but I make sure always i fuck her very well. And she is always DTF and begs to blow me constantly. If I was ‘unfailingly “Nice” and “kind”’ then she would not be anywhere near as acquiescent. No doubt about it. Nice & kind is Beta, all the way, and because I don’t fawn all over her & try to please her she loves being my submissive, feminine girl. I even shaved her pussy the other night, then had my way with her once again, much to her delight. I’m not a total arsehole with her, I’m quite the gentleman at times, but I certainly don’t put up with her shit, always hold frame and my own MPoO and she has told me she respects me for this…

  49. “The context is actively fucking a woman and deciding. But not deciding in a sperg fashion. Or a girly emotional fashion. In a realistic vetting fashion, based on advice. From Shawn T. Smith. That has seen a thing or two in how couples relate. What don’t you get about that?”

    Yeah, drugged up (“in love”), with advice, you can make great decisions. Sure. lol

    I “got it”, but I don’t think that you did.

    If you have several girls in a rotation, you are much less likely to “fall in love” with one of them.

    Alternatively, you might vet before having sex, with advice. That works, too. But then there’s the “always on” sex drive thingy.

    A better alternative is to look for a beautiful, spirited, intelligent woman and train her to be ride or die. Banging her while training her even while you’re in love with her. But not too many men have the balls and skills and self-control to do that. That’s heroic level stuff.

  50. “Rollo is a trial of 2 yrs a good time frame of seeing the response and character of a women?”

    No. You can’t “vet” a woman then plop on the couch and assume she’s OK from then on.

    Women change over time. Princess -> carousel rider -> wall must get hitched -> “mom” -> horny 40yr old -> pre-menopause

    The female hormones surge at different levels way more then men’s constant boners. This happens monthly!

    Also some mental illness onsets later in life. I found that out the hard way with my ex.

  51. Now I know there is a long list of red flags when seeking a LTR, especially involving raising children. It’s been good practice for me to review them and see which ones that don’t come off as red flags immediately, and then determine the reason why others consider it as one and I just can’t get it.

    There were a few I did not catch; one big one was choosing a woman who said she was willing to go to a sperm bank and do it “on her own” if she could not find a man. I now see the implied values that back this idea are anathema to a healthy man. She’s basically saying that father’s and men are not necessary at all in the house to raise healthy children.

    I blew right by that.

    Since then, there are usually other things that come bundled into that value system: it does stand alone. But it’s a big one, and not a bad “what if” question for a prospect, if timed right.

  52. I’m curious about something.

    How many readers are men who think or have proven that they can train a woman to be ride or die?

    How many women readers would say that they are ride or die women?

    How many readers are men who think that they can never train a woman to be ride or die?

  53. Just Beers
    one big one was choosing a woman who said she was willing to go to a sperm bank and do it “on her own” if she could not find a man

    With no context that really can’t be assessed. For a start, at what age?

    First: girls say all kinds of stuff that is “true” at the instant they say it, and at some later date will be untrue, or “I don’t remember saying that” or “I would never say that!!”, etc.

    Second, girls say all sorts of stuff at different times in their cycle.

    Third, girls say all sorts of stuff when their biological clock is ticking louder.

    Fourth, girls say all sorts of stuff just to see if they can get a reaction.

  54. Don’t get me wrong, i love Rollo. I read two of the books (gonna read the last one too), and most of the blog posts. I love how he just shows you the door and leave you to it. And i respect that. He just gives you the ingredients and the cooker. You are free to do whatever you want with it. But honestly, i sometimes wish that we had some more guidance. Yeah he gives some advice but it is mostly about changing your situation and circumstances and as a beta or even an omega dude, that doesn’t really do me any good. Yeah i did forget what i have been told about women and relationships, i started to act like a man, i am going to the gym, i lost weight and all, but all these doesn’t matter if you can’t really fool a woman’s radar. And let’s be honest, that radar is accurate. Unlike women, we men can’t really fool ourselves, and that shows. I am a very realistic guy and that doesn’t do me any good. The guidance that we get about this mostly tells us “to alpha up”. But is this a realistic approach to the problem? I think Rollo agrees with me on this. You can not alpha up. You do not turn into an alpha just because you read a couple books and went to the gym etc. That is not what alpha is. It is a state of mind and once you are an adult, you either have it or not. So as a beta male, or even as an “omega” male, i still can’t find the answers after all the reading, research and personal experience. I mean i got the theory right but what about the practice? What are our options really? If there is a war of genders (there definately is), what is our role in this fight, should we just accept being the outcasts? Should we just accept our situation and go mgtow? I hate the concept of mgtow. I think it is nothing but a bunch of men kidding themselves that they do not need women. Can’t get any lamer than that. So what shall we do? If we let women take control just for the sake of not being alone, we don’t even feel like men anymore and we lose, and if we try to take control and be red pill worthy, they just ignore us, we lose either way. Is this a fight that we can not win? Is it too late for us?

  55. @fandango

    Is this based on your online dating experience? Or real life interactions with girls?

    I too suggest taking it to Field Reports.

  56. @deti et y’all

    You don’t have to read this research paper and other recent ones, though let’s look at some conclusions

    The Dark Triad personality: Attractiveness to women. Personality and Individual Differences

    https://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/The-Dark-Triad-Personality.pdf

    Dark Triad (DT) personality is attractive to women, independent of a man’s physical appearance.

    “DT is associated with promiscuity and desire for extra-pair sex. DT men report more lifetime sex partners and hold less restrictive socio-sexual attitudes (Jonason, Li, Webster, & Schmitt, 2009).” (that is from another DT research paper)

    Women have the capability for finding DT, by shit testing. Game allows for the successful emulation of DT qualities.

  57. alright, there will likely be no agreement from anyone in these comments, but i’m gonna jump in on this one anyway.

    @fandango

    ” but all these doesn’t matter if you can’t really fool a woman’s radar. And let’s be honest, that radar is accurate.”

    Sort of. It is accurate in the sense that it works as it is supposed to. But you should consider this similar to a toddler with a gun. Guns can serve many useful purposes. But a toddler dunno wtf hes doing with it, so hes just gonna be hitting random shit if he figures out how to pull the trigger.

    Yes, her radar is accurate. But regardless, she’s constantly being fooled, because she doesn’t know how to read the damn thing.

    “The guidance that we get about this mostly tells us “to alpha up”. But is this a realistic approach to the problem?”

    No, it isn’t, even if that’s what you’ll mostly hear here in the comments.

    ” You can not alpha up. You do not turn into an alpha just because you read a couple books and went to the gym etc. That is not what alpha is. It is a state of mind and once you are an adult, you either have it or not”

    Eh, you sort of can. If you are willing to be a clown, this is definitely possible. Problem is, most men don’t want to be clowns. And why should they? I can’t think of a more pointless endeavor

    “So as a beta male, or even as an “omega” male, i still can’t find the answers after all the reading, research and personal experience. I mean i got the theory right but what about the practice? What are our options really?”

    Honestly, you either become a clown for the p, go the mgtow / incel route, or seek some kind of in between. You can listen to the guys in these comments a little, the self help stuff they like to go on about is somewhat useful for your own personal development. Just do not expect it to really increase your ability to get with women, or your satisfaction with the general state of the things.

    You are not crazy. They really are almost all insufferable and useless at this point. And it really is fairly risky to mess around with them.

    “If there is a war of genders (there definately is), what is our role in this fight, should we just accept being the outcasts?”

    That’s all on you to decide. Like I said, you’ve got guys that don’t mind going out and clowning for the lay. That’s just fine. Me personally, it’s a waste of time.

    Yeh go get laid when you want to, but theres a million more satisfying ways to spend your time.

    “Should we just accept our situation and go mgtow? I hate the concept of mgtow. I think it is nothing but a bunch of men kidding themselves that they do not need women. Can’t get any lamer than that.”

    I wouldn’t consider myself part of any of these groups. But the mgtow and incel stuff, imo, is a step in the right direction. Yes, I’m sure there’s plenty of people in these groups that match the descriptions you just gave, and that fit the general view of the older commenters here.

    But in reality, men really don’t “need” women. Yes, their lives would be less without them. But they could survive just fine. Whereas women absolutely can not survive without men. It would drive them absolutely mad.

    ” So what shall we do? If we let women take control just for the sake of not being alone, we don’t even feel like men anymore and we lose, and if we try to take control and be red pill worthy, they just ignore us, we lose either way. Is this a fight that we can not win? Is it too late for us?”

    Look at it this way. The game is rigged currently in favor of “alphas”. But there are only a few “alphas”. There are way, way more “betas” than “alphas”. What you are seeing with the mgtow and incel stuff is a bunch of non-alphas reaching the end of their patience with the status quo. Their numbers will only continue to grow.

    I’d be lying if I said I knew what comes next. But things can not continue the way they are. No one is satisfied at this point. Not women, and not men. With the exception of the very small subset of people at the very top of the pyramid, nobody is winning out there. Not really.

    That’s encouraging to me.

    As for you individually, the best advice I can give you is to find other things to fill your life with. Some time should be spent on women, getting laid, maybe being in relationships, sure. But don’t beat yourself up about it.

    Even when you do find some success, our entire system is designed to ensure it does not last. Don’t expect to find a woman you can be with for life. They are what they are, and right now, they are not interested in this kind of life. And even those very few that are, generally are not capable of it.

    Things will turn for the better at some point imo, but depending on your age, that may or may not matter. I’m late 20s. I think I may see the point at which things start to take a turn to where more meaningful relationships become possible. But probably won’t get to really experience it. The women my age are essentially ruined. Those younger than me, I dunno. We’ll see.

    But yeh, that’s all I got for now.

  58. I’m getting to the point where I feel like I might be over-filtering. Quite frankly, as women have less and less to offer, I basically only look at them as a source of sex. I’m actually concerned that I just no longer have the capacity or patience to even attempt relationships any more. I cut bait so fast now it’s Actually surprising to me. Can’t decide if they are so terrible or my threshold for bullshit is so small.

  59. A toddler with a gun. That’s interesting.

    Not to belabor a point, but even ” late twenties ” ( depending on life experiences) is too young to make any decisions that are supposed to be life long ones. You only live once, and for a relatively short time.

    You know, I read over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over….. This stuff about the tilted field and the unfairness and the system and all of that. Complain and complain and complain some more. Go Mgtow or incel or monk . The alphas, the betas, the omegas, the jets, the sharks.

    Lol,.you.don’t really have much of an idea about the ” system ” or ” tilted ” or ” unfairness “. Trust me, you really, really don’t.

    Sounds to me, and I’m 100% serious, that the complaints are that life/sex/women aren’t easy enough. And of course this means that women, all of them, are bad and somehow corrupt. But your words, the way you choose to describe situations, it always sheds a bright light on the mode of thought. Always. ” I can’t do this because it’s too hard and nobody will give me what I think I automatically deserve, so it’s all shit and I give up, and if any man is smart like me, he will just give up as well, blah blah blah blah…. “.

    No matter how many articles are written explaining that there are reasons many men struggle, that information is ignored or misconstrued. Because, you know, ” harder “.

    Tangent ahead.

    I know a.fully grown man that’s 50 fucking years old, but even at that age, he has virtually no life experiences that most men his age have had. When he speaks, 90% of the time it’s a complaint of some sort about how difficult things are, and how he doesn’t want to have to put a lot of effort forth. He’s not stupid or mentally incapacitated ( although his father raised him to always be highly optimistic to the point of paralyzation ), my conclusion after observing his life for 2 decades is that he’s weak and lazy as fuck. The laziest man I’ve ever seen.

    Needless to say for most of the time I’ve known him, he’s been ” incel “. About a year ago, this human slug, lol, actually got a ” girlfriend “. But, he’s a very private individual, so he’s never spoken about it at all. I figured it out by the change in his hygiene and his constant use of his phone requiring ” privacy “.

    I was kinda happy for him. All those years of just letting life throw him in whatever direction had the least resistance, and he still wound up with a woman and presumably some sex…as long as it wasn’t too physically taxing and draining.

    But some of those private phone calls result in him being sad and teary eyed and frustrated. I guess ” optimism ” isn’t sufficient to pass basic shit tests.

    Must be her fault, right?

    Bitches.

    Men can go about life and do whatever they want to. I support that. But I don’t support the shining and complaining and crying and bitching about ” why should I??? “. Nobody can convince any man to do shit he a) is afraid of b) doesn’t see the ” sense ” of c) likes life to be easy and effort free.

    Reality: women aren’t rearranging life on this earth. At their core, they are pretty much unchanged – take that as you will. A vast majority of men aren’t going without sex ( a significant enough number are, but it’s not even close to a majority ). Reducing ” alpha ” to a simplistic characteristic doesn’t change anything real. The overwhelming majority of men having sex are indeed ” beta “, it’s always been so and always will be so. Men get laid/relationship/ married without pua or game every single day. A bunch are banging away as I type this. If you want to get laid and can’t figure it out, that’s not a crime and you should check out pua and make the effort to learn game.

    Or you can be weak and lazy and not do anything except give up, but the complaining? That shit’s for the birds. Develop yourself or don’t, but it’s not anybody else’s fault, not even those super strong, imposing, axe wielding women that inhabit your imagination.

  60. Blaximus
    Lol,.you.don’t really have much of an idea about the ” system ” or ” tilted ” or ” unfairness “. Trust me, you really, really don’t.

    That’s arrogant. You have no idea who’s reading. You really, really don’t. It’s a global internet.

    No argument with the rest of you comment.

  61. AR

    In the Manosphere, I stand by my statement fully.

    The ” system ” didn’t just become magically unfair overnight.

  62. For example, in China the image of Winnie the Pooh is pretty much forbidden or at least strongly discouraged, because of the similarity to Xi. So protestors in Hong Kong wearing masks to evade the Chinese facial recognition AI are asking for double the fun.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7590823/Hong-Kong-activists-wear-Joker-Winnie-Pooh-masks.html

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/10/19/11/19915762-7590823-A_protester_wears_a_Winnie_the_Pooh_mask_during_a_demonstration_-a-48_1571482524845.jpg

    We should pay attention to this stuff, because that whole “social credit” system is a concept that might just show up here.

  63. Blaximus
    In the Manosphere, I stand by my statement fully.

    The ” system ” didn’t just become magically unfair overnight.

    What does this word salad even mean?

  64. “Can’t decide if they are so terrible or my threshold for bullshit is so small.”

    Hamsterlation: I expect women to be men with tits–to think like men.

    Red Pill: Women aren’t men with tits.

  65. The ” word salad ” means that Americans ( not Chinese…lol ) are adept at ignoring the unjustness , if that’s a word, longstanding in it’s system until either it affects them directly, or someone they know. Being more concerned about what might possibly happen in the future while remaining blind to what’s been happening.

  66. “Look at it this way. The game is rigged currently in favor of “alphas”. But there are only a few “alphas”. There are way, way more “betas” than “alphas”. What you are seeing with the mgtow and incel stuff is a bunch of non-alphas reaching the end of their patience with the status quo.”

    They need to go eat a bullet if they truly feel this way. Seriously. I have zero sympathy for losers with this attitude.

    “The game is rigged” lol, in your mind, and only in your mind

    …today’s betas are such losers–no balls because they pedestalize women…yesterday’s betas didn’t pedestalize women and women respected them and were not unhappy to bang them…nowadays women despise men they banged when they test those men and discover that they lack balls…

    …blame the women if it makes it easier for you to buffer…

    …and you get no sympathy from me…

  67. “The ” system ” didn’t just become magically unfair overnight.”

    Shock!!! The system is unfaiiiir!!!

    lol, there is plenty of unfairness to go around, Blax…the unfairness doesn’t just hit blacks…

    …”the system” is corrupt…you should know this by the time you’re 30…and figure out how to mitigate problems…

  68. Funny I didn’t mention ” blacks “.😁

    O/T

    I.watched Sammy the Bull’s interview on valuetainment. It’s an interesting interview of a guy that led an interesting life. Towards the end he says some things about law and justice that are enlightening to those of us that haven’t killed 19 people, belonged to the mafia or served decades in prison. Especially how the system works against justice for all ( while never saying he wasn’t guilty and deserving of his fate ).

  69. “But things can not continue the way they are. No one is satisfied at this point. Not women, and not men. With the exception of the very small subset of people at the very top of the pyramid, nobody is winning out there. Not really.

    That’s encouraging to me.”

    Yeah, there is always Schadenfreude to fall back on for the black-pill tards.

    “If I compare myself with others and find that I’m not as good as [they are], I’m much more likely to be pleased when they get taken down a notch.”

    I live in Unicorn-landia. I see satisfied people all around me. 90% of them. But then, they actually did something to get there. And they are all winning what they want to. If they want to.

    My people are “normal”. I won’t accept anything less…

    You are projecting who-ever you are. Don’t be so clinically retarded as to suggest a hell of a lot of people aren’t winning out there. Cause that’s not true.

    Engagement with the feminine is normal healthy and fulfilling for a masculine male. It’s enjoyable.

    Maybe you should change your scenery.

    And stop commenting here. It’s unbecoming.

    Black Pill is not really a thing.

    https://youtu.be/M5QGkOGZubQ

  70. Mgtow, incel, not flipping any chessboard.

    Not even flipping a checkerboard.

    Still a very small group of men outside the walls of the sphere.

  71. “A good point, perhaps I should. I would no doubt benefit greatly from moving to Unicorn-landia. But I’d start slacking then. Stop noticing what’s going on. And that would be boring.”

    Showing your true slacker colors.

    Good luck with that.

    Living your best life and having peak experiences is not boring. It’s fun.

  72. I’m reading a plea for equal treatment of men and women. This has never been the case historically anywhere on the planet. For one person’s sexual strategy to be successful , someone else will not be.

  73. “I don’t get the hostility.

    I haven’t even said anything particularly controversial yet.”

    You are anti-self actualization.

    Blaming others for your predicament. Others=the world at large. “Even when you do find some success, our entire system is designed to ensure it does not last.”

    It’s not very believable. To me.

    It starts with you. You are up against resistance. You can feel anyway you want about that resistance.

    Your words are defeatist (demonstrating expectation or acceptance of failure). That’s not a way to go through life with inter-sexual relationships. Which is what this blog is discussing. It’s not about meh, all interactions with women suck. And the deck is stacked, so I got other things to do…

  74. “Only if you view this as the one and only battle. Men collectively lost a battle decades ago and have paid an increasing price for it ever since. There is no shame in admitting this. In fact it is necessary if they are to modify their own strategy in order to secure a win.”

    Collectively? Why do you use that adverb? Who wants to be a loser in a battle? Are you wanting your loser brother to be your keeper?

    “As for all interactions with women sucking, that’s not the case 100% of the time, but most of the time yes. They’re a drag to interact with these days. Especially if it’s women you aren’t attracted to.”

    Women you aren’t attracted to are dragging you down?

    You should read the 48 Laws of Power.

    Or be slightly more selective in your interactions.

    I guess I don’t know your frame of reference. But then again you didn’t give one.

  75. (having trouble posting this so trying parts at a time)

    Here is another research paper you don’t need to read to have some conclusions:

    Are men really more ‘oriented’ towards short-term mating than women?

    (see link above)

    “Men possess greater desire for short-term mating relationships than women. Men prefer
    larger numbers of sexual partners over time than women. Men require less time before consenting to sex than women.”

    That has led to some erroneously arguing that the male mating strategy of an alphas is always pump and dump, even though empirical evidence refutes this. If you are arguing that alphas don’t want families, while raising a family, you have parked yourself into a beta corner.

    “Women who engage in short-term mating do not seek out larger numbers of partners because it is not part of their evolved short-term psychology. Rather, women who pursue a short-term sexual strategy may be motivated to seek out high-quality genetic partners, partners that may one day make good long-term mates, and partners with immediate resources (Gangestad and Simpson 2000; Greiling and Buss 2000; Scheib 1997).”

    Alphas (or money) get fucks, for betas to get laid they have to pursue long term relationships (or pretend to want a LTR, or act alpha).

  76. continued

    “both men and women in our ancestral past likely would have increased their reproductive success when mating with long-term mates by choosing partners who were kind and understanding (Buss and Schmitt 1993). (This) accurately explains why both men and women express preferences for long-term mates who are kind and understanding (Buss 1989; Kenrick et al.1990; Nevid 1984), why men and women effectively attract one another as long-term mates when suggesting that they are kind (Schmitt and Buss 1996), and why men and women find kind marital partners particularly satisfying (Botwin et al.1997).”

    Thus betas by being kind and understanding, and providing resources, can have long term relationships. Alphas will also look for kind and understanding mates when they intend to start a family.

    Like females, males have different requirements for long term family relationships. They hope by selecting for kindness and understanding, they increase their chances of being able to raise their own offspring in an intact family.

    Men’s innate, unconditioned, biological imperative is to mate. Since having children is very costly, when potentially starting a family, the male needs to have high standards, and be very selective. Unfortunately betas, while being able to mate, can’t be very selective.

  77. “Collectively? Why do you use that adverb? Who wants to be a loser in a battle? Are you wanting your loser brother to be your keeper?”

    Because it is appropriate.

    No one wants to be a loser in a battle. That does not change the fact that everyone at some point or another will be.

    “Women you aren’t attracted to are dragging you down?”

    No, they are simply more annoying than women I am attracted to. I can’t place exactly why

    “You should read the 48 Laws of Power”

    I have.

    “Or be slightly more selective in your interactions.”

    What do you mean? There will always be people one does not care to interact with, but must anyway.

  78. The similarities between Beta and Alpha when it comes to women may not be so vast. We are still men. Let me share a story about that. I’m going to ramble, but here is my main point: Beta men need to understand that “Alpha” is both attainable, and fully human, and need to stop thinking of it as this mythical, unattainable state that only the lucky few are born with or born into. As if a life filled with a luxury of women is a cure-all for the ills and pains of life that we ALL experience, without exception.

    I have an Alpha friend who had virtual unlimited access to women in his prime. Tight game, never any lack at all. I’m the exact opposite, first girlfriend at 26, I made every mistake in the book and she broke up with me about a year ago. My friend had fun in his youth; my youth was tortured with loneliness without any relief of intimacy at all.

    And yet, I was commiserating with him the other day. I’ve been busted up about my ex, like big time busted up, and years ago he went through a nasty divorce after being married for 20 years. Two kids and everything. “Apples and oranges,” you could say, but he also experienced crazy heartbreak after his first serious girlfriend dumped him after he cheated on her about 20 times, back when he was in his late teens/early 20’s. Didn’t matter that he had been dumped over cheating and had no shortage of women — he was heartbroken. Funny how that works. It’s as if we’re all subject to experiencing the same emotions as humans, whether we’re labeled “Alpha” or “Beta.”

    The difference is the perspective of those emotions. Anyway:

    He was constantly laying other women, constantly, both before, during, and after that first breakup of his, but he said he felt devastated. He had no issue getting women before, during, or after, and yet he said he was waking up every morning feeling like he’d been shot, projecting stuff about his girlfriend onto new girls he was meeting (secretly, it was nothing he’d ever divulge to the girls he was getting with, but he wanted them to do things in bed that reminded him of things she’d done, etc.). i.e., the stuff all men will go through with a breakup. It’s normal.

    He had the most serious case of BPD girlfriend I’ve ever heard of in my life later. And he said she had an even more dramatic impact than his first girlfriend. He was tangled up with her for decades, even though he never had any remote issues getting laid with other women. He’s often talked about how many of them looked like supermodels, he never had any issues getting exactly the girls he wanted — and yet 3 women in his entire life had this devastating effect on him.

    Women where he ignored the red flags and pushed on. Even while he was sleeping with scores of other women, he maintained a special involvement with each of these girls at different times in his life. So even sleeping with scores of women is not a failsafe “cure” for the pains and ills of relationships/love that we ALL experience. Many older men here have been through divorces.

    It can help guys like me to know you’re human too and know what pain/heartache is like. It feels alienating when Beta guys think Alpha guys don’t know what heartache is like, and so they feel their suffering is unique to them. This is damaging and does not promote growth/forward movement. Part of being connected as men is knowing that our experience is a common one, and none of us is crazy or experiencing unique emotions that other men in the tribe have not.

    I even remember Palma posting something not too long ago on another thread asking what it was about “those women” that cause the “dick twitch.” I think it’s the same thing that attracted my Alpha friend to these 3 women in his life. Despite having access to hundreds, and sleeping with knockout women over and over and over again, those ones that caused the “dick twitch” just had a special impact.

    This is the kind of ‘special’ attraction that can happen to a Beta or an Alpha. And often do. The difference is the Alpha will have no shortage of sexual options/variety, which, while not a cure-all for heartache, certainly can help a lot, and I don’t think Alphas get bogged down by the same self-esteem issues that Betas do.

    With my friend for example, despite the heartache being extremely real for him, I never got the sense that he ‘attached’ to a failed relationship. He said he simply felt like shit and for some of them, never got over them, but he’s never remotely implied he ever tried to get any of them back, or make any remote attempts to save a failed relationship. He simply moved on through the pain. In fact, his ex wife has been trying to get back with him for years, and he absolutely refuses to interact with her at all in any capacity.

    And that’s all we can do as men: move forward. That’s the upswing: Betas like me may feel discouraged. Like we’ve only had one woman (many have had not even one), and we got the nastiest case of ONE-itis for her imaginable, pray we could get back with them, and leave ourselves attached HARD —

    — but all we can do is move on through the pain. Which is exactly what Alphas do. I think it’s a disservice to men everywhere if we imply that Alphas are immune to heartache, like they’re some kind of Superhuman that never experiences painful emotions.

    Beta men need to understand Alphas are not Superhumans, and go through the same struggles they do. It’s just in a different way and with a different attitude/perspective. And a lack of the self-esteem issues that can be like throwing kerosene on a fire that’s already close to getting out of control.

    This will make “Alpha” seem like a much more achievable state for otherwise hopeless Betas. To realize the gap is not so vast. That Alphas experience the same emotions despite having better coping skills and a much more positive and stable/secure self-image.

    I forgot what Mystery’s nervous breakdown was about, what relationship, etc. But things like that are absolutely IMPERATIVE for the common man to understand — that Alphas experience that too. It’s those of us who are still plugged in to the Matrix who need to understand that unplugging from The Matrix doesn’t mean not being a human being anymore. My friend almost committed suicide during the divorce, but only considered it briefly and never looked back. And that was the only time in his entire life he ever felt suicidal.

    But he still felt it. Knowing that the pain was that great for him made me feel less alone. It’s easy to think that guys with options simply never feel bad or feel THAT bad, but it’s not true. The difference, again, is perspective. Attitude about the emotions, not a lack of the emotions.

    It’s like they say about bravery: it isn’t the lack of fear. It’s the overcoming of it. A huge issue I have with the manosphere is that “Alpha” is put on a pedestal like it’s a god to be worshiped. And it alienates men and makes them feel like the pursuit of attaining this “Alpha” status means not being a human being anymore. It can be a huge turnoff, and men who are especially in a lot of emotional pain may be repulsed by the idea of being “Alpha,” because this pain they’re in seems so inescapable.

    To realize being “Alpha” doesn’t mean not feeling that pain, but simply having a perspective and attitude shift on what it means and how to deal with it…makes this “Alpha” status come into focus much more clearly.

    It took a real heart to heart with a good “Alpha” friend of mine to understand this. I have felt so completely alone in the world after this breakup with my ex, and this good friend of mine, simply having a brief conversation one night where he could empathize with me, was the only thing that helped from any of my friends.

    Our only option is to move forward. Alpha is about perspective. Hopelessness is the LAST thing Beta men need to embrace or even remotely consider. To feel being “Beta” is a unique problem, and it’s something you’re “born into,” will only make things much, MUCH worse for these kinds of men. It feels so much more isolating and hopeless.

    So if you identify as one of these Beta men, remember this: you have the power to shift your perspective. Being “Alpha” is not special, and is not as far away as you think. Like what they say about enlightenment.

    This is why despite the hell I’m going through, I’m re-reading old Rational Male articles about breakups, like the “Detox” article, listening to Mystery Method, and reminding myself that what I’m going through is NORMAL, and ESPECIALLY for a man with no prior experience. In fact, in “Detox,” Rollo clarifies that Alpha men simply have more experience with the emotions of a breakup. The mistaken idea I had, at least, was that Alpha men didn’t FEEL the emotions of a breakup. This is a huge misinterpretation and only makes “Alpha” seem farther away.

    To help unplug men, we need to feel men on the “other side” can empathize. It makes “Alpha” seem much more human, much more normal, much more attainable.

    Blax always mentions not pedestalizing women. I say not to pedestalize Alphas either, as if they’re some kind of divine masculine beings who are immune to common human emotions. It’s a state of mind, not a state of being a demi-god.

    And therein lies a part of the heart of an Alpha: realizing that we’re all going to fucking die, and no amount of perspective shift is gonna change that. We ALL are going to experience death and loss many times in our life, and in many different forms.

    It’s a matter of being strong, having a strong mind, and being strong under the full, un-anesthetized awareness of this reality. To realize we are living in a harsh world and we are going to face a lot of pain and misfortune in our lives, things that will bring us to our knees — but to keep pushing forward anyway. To have pride in being able to take it on the nose and rise up even above the worst shit.

    “Fearless leaders” are not born. They’re made. Who are men going to trust more as a leader? The guy who they think was born with a silver spoon of Confidence in his mouth, who they think was just spoiled with good looks/money/women without ever having to put in any effort?

    Or the guy who has gone through some of the worst shit, knows what pain and loss and despair are like on an intimate, personal level, and fought hard for the life that he has? Fought hard for the perspective and attitude he has, fought hard for the resilience he has? Fought hard and took those things by force in a world that gives him every reason not to have them?

    The takeaway from this article for me is that: Alpha is not unattainable, and it is not as far away from Beta men as they’d think. Just because Alphas have more access to fulfilling their sexual imperative does not mean they’re immune to relationship woes, or getting hung up on particular girls.

    They have to do just as much work as a Beta in order to have a strong enough perspective to push forward in life with dynamic passion and authenticity. That playing field is level. There is no free lunch, and it’s a huge, HUGE issue to have for a Beta man to not realize this. Even for Alphas there is no “free lunch,” so we need to stop the pity party and know that “greater men” than ourselves have been through this shit too.

    And if we overcome it by drawing on our own inner strength, then we are not as far from these “greater men” than we might have thought previously.

  79. Softek’s comment brings up an issue that has always bothered me: On the one hand, men seem designed by nature to compete with one another for the best women. On the other hand, men truly are stronger and happier when they work together as a team for something worthwhile. It makes me think of the movie trope where two best friends or brothers become enemies when they fall in love with the same woman.

    I’m currently reading a novel about the 300 Spartans and what impresses me about the men is how they’ve clearly chosen brotherhood over women. Their total commitment in training together, fighting together and holding the brotherhood as paramount is what fosters the skill and discipline to decimate their enemies. But their rules on marriage and ‘Keep Your Hands Off Your Brother’s Wife’ were very strict. Plus women were grateful to have husbands, especially as most of them would become widows before the men reached forty.

    Of course, that brotherhood only came about because the Greeks were constantly at war with each other (not to mention thousands of Persians who wanted to enslave the lot of them). I suppose one could argue that peace and widespread prosperity weakens the need for men to be masculine. But even if that’s true, I’d rather be living now as a ‘weak’ man than in Sparta as a strong one. All things considered, I like Life in the West.

  80. Softek

    Let me condense this for you.

    Alpha = attractive to women. [Full Stop]

    Alpha /= red pill, good with women, happy, successful, etc. Etc. Etc….

  81. Softek

    Hey I hate to break up your pity party. 🎉

    But recall you were the one who would not give in to her demands of exclusivity. You essentially dumped her.

    Knock this shit off. Go get laid.

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