The 21 Convention, Anthony Johnson and The Red Man Group, LLC

RE: Statement about 21 Convention and Anthony Johnson and the Red Man Group, LLC:

I have to make this short because I am represented by legal counsel and yes, a legal team is now involved in this matter. My attorneys have advised me that I can comment to the following:

I wish the 21 Convention nothing but future success, and as of this writing I am no longer legally a member/partner of The Red Man Group, LLC, a Florida entity. As for statements made on social media/elsewhere by certain individuals that are disparaging of me, to others, and that are ongoing, it is not something I can comment on further. I stand by my work.

I know many of you want a detailed explanation of what’s occurred from my perspective but because lawyers are involved I cannot, upon advice of counsel give that detailed explanation to you right now. I truly hope we all can move forward and thrive.

However, I have been authorized to relate this:

I posted my June 2, 2019 post to avoid potential liability under the Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act, as well as potential criminal prosecution for fraud if my name or owned trademark was used to sell something and I was not present to oversee that deal. It is critical for those purchasing an item to know what they are receiving and my attorneys have made it clear to me that if I was not going to be speaking at an event, it was incumbent upon me to advise the public and potential ticket purchasers – who may have been purchasing tickets to an event expecting me to be present – of my removal from the speakers lineup. The law required me to announce my removal from all future conventions as of June 2, 2019.

As for the rest, I will have no further comment until authorized by my legal team. Thanks for your continued support.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

145 comments on “The 21 Convention, Anthony Johnson and The Red Man Group, LLC

  1. “It is critical for those purchasing an item to know what they are receiving . . . The law required me to announce my removal from all future conventions as of June 2, 2019.”

    Exactly.

  2. I tremendously respect Rollo’s well researched work, and respect him even more for the way he conducted himself here. A true role model

  3. Anyone doubting Rollo Tomassi “The Rational Male”
    or accusing him of doing anything for money,
    remember that “THE RATIONAL MALE” audiobooks by Rollo Tomassi
    fund medical treatments for me rather than lining Rollo’s pockets:

    https://www.audible.com/pd/B01E61CYCA/?source_code=AUDFPWS0223189MWU-BK-ACX0-057191&ref=acx_bty_BK_ACX0_057191_pd_us

    Also, he encourages every man to purchase the paperback version of his books
    at about $8 each paperback book, he’s basically making NOTHING on the sales of those paperback books.

    Rollo doesn’t need the money from sales of his books or audiobooks,
    and he’s never been paid to speak in public.

  4. Just goes to show that somewhere , somebody must be making some substantial amount of money in order for lawyers to be involved?

    Some may not see the irony, but all these guys involved in this mess including Rollo have directly criticized the divorce system and lawyers in that arena , ironic that for all the gnashing of teeth of lawyers and the legal system around divorce, yet here all of you are in a very messy business divorce. Business is business no doubt and you do what you have to do, but some humbleness from all yall would do all of you some good, it may not be “Alpha” but we are all students here in the game of life, everything has a beginning and an end, an orderly end to something is something to be proud of , even if it is not “Alpha”.

    I still support you Rollo, your work is solid, but stay humble man, this whole concept of “Alpha” that yall had developed the since the beginning of red pill 21con in 2016/2017 has gone way off the rails and is doing more harm than good at this point for everyone associated with it. Charging guys in desperate for help hundreds/thousands of dollars is going to bring yall bad karma at some point and here we see some of it, I know you don’t personally do it but you where a part of group that was, some are still doing it in your new circle.

    Stay humble man, while you are not arrogant for some reason you seem to draw a lot of arrogant people around you. I know the manosphere common wisdom is that arrogance is good but it can lead to some pretty big blindsides, arrogant people feel they have nothing to learn, it’s a double edged sword that will cut very deep at some point.

  5. @Tiger. Are you happy now? Rollo has done the right thing and left it up to his lawyers.

    What has Rollo done wrong? Certainly nothing to warrant the public abuse he has recieved.

    So hypotheticaly let’s say Rollo did ask this Nellie journalist along to their meeting. So fucking what. Was it like some secret CIA, goverment plan to hide secrets from the public? No it was a bunch of guys smoking cigars. Big fucking whoop.

    I always thought that most of the Manosphere was composed of self important, narcissistic, gobshites and this incident just solidified it for me. As I said, TRM and Rollo are the only sources that are the real deal.

  6. “Didn’t know Florida had such laws . . .”

    “Buying a pig (a valuable item) in a poke” and “letting the cat (a worthless item) out of the bag” refer to the same fraudulent practice of hiding the real terms of sale from the customer until after the money has been exchanged. Off the top of my head I can’t think of anyplace with a foundation in English common law that doesn’t have such laws against it. It is fundamental to the laws of contract and part of the US Uniform Commercial Code (an idea that traces back to Alfred the Great):

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Uniform_Commercial_Code

    (Louisiana and Puerto Rico are the odd men out in adoption because their legal systems are founded in French and Spanish law respectively. Nonetheless they have similar code in order to do business across their borders)

    See also the problems video games publishers are having with their practice of selling “loot boxes,” which have been declared a form illegal gambling in Belgium and are under investigation for the same in other countries, including the US (selling loot boxes makes video games into a form of slot machine, with the difference that video games take real money and pay out only virtual prizes).

    Anthony’s policy is the chief reason I wouldn’t go near the 21 Convention (or video games with a “surprise mechanic” that requires a purchase). He is selling a pig in a poke with the risk that a cat would be let out of the bag and no refunds, but is not above proudly promoting the contents of the bag as a pig anyway. It was a mistake for Rollo to attach his name and reputation to such a policy and a bigger one to sign on as an officer of an LLC associated with such a policy.

    We live and learn, but one of the notable features of learning by experience is that you get the final exam first and only then the lesson.

  7. I should note that Rollo made his reasons for associating with the 21 Convention clear from the beginning and I understand those reasons.

    But I’ll also note that a game being the only one in town does not imply that it is worth playing. Be careful out there people. The only one with your interests at heart is you, and you are remarkably adept at rationalizing away those interests.

  8. @Palma Sailor:

    Many contracts have some boilerplate attached that deals with such issues, but the precise wording of that boilerplate has been worked out painfully over the course of centuries.

    Anthony’s policy looks like it was written by a 12 year old who was aware of the existence of such terms but didn’t understand the language, purpose or limitations. Either that or was simply a grifter. Or all of the above.

    And if Anthony thinks that my saying that and even outright advising people to avoid or cancel such a contract is legally tortuous interference with his business, he (and DDJ) is smoking crack. Why does he think that charging back a purchase is allowed in the first place?

  9. “We live and learn, but one of the notable features of learning by experience is that you get the final exam first and only then the lesson.”

    Epimetheus has a much larger following than Prometheus, but even he is eclipsed by his bastard half-brother, Ametheus.

  10. I’ve skimmed over the Twitter threads and have a general idea of what happened, but do not have the context to decide if what I have found is strong enough to decide exactly who is at fault here.

    What I do know is that Rollo has been consistent in his message for nearly two decades now, and has never wavered. Anthony Johnson has always seemed naieve about life (and women, remember his BPD girlfriend?), and seemed to be more than happy to hitch the 21 Convention up to Rollo Tomassi’s star. It was pretty purple pill before Rollo came along. All that being said, I’m sticking with Rollo.

    P. S. I do have some criticism for Rollo. This specific disclaimer is way over the top. If this is what your lawyers told you to say, then they are making a very big deal out of this. Consider getting a second opinion about exactly what the situation realistically could be, and not some worse-case scenario that you only find on the Bar Exam.

  11. “The problem with dealing with mentally ill incoherent fools with nothing to lose is that they can bring the most ludicrous of legal actions. ”

    When it’s their ego on the line, all bets are off. And if people think their is some honor in not fighting fire with nuclear blasts, they are in for a rude awakening.

    Overwhelming force is a very effective strategy. See “history” for lessons.

    In any event for curious minds, I suspect all will be out in complaints before long. Anthony “Dickless” Johnson still has to wait to count up the no shows in Warsaw.

  12. “and not some worse-case scenario that you only find on the Bar Exam.”

    And here comes BP shaming language… Right on cue. Turn the other cheek! Be the bigger guy! It’s logical isn’t it…

    You speak like a fella who hasn’t faced zeroing out via malicious prosecution. Shaking my haid…

    I say it again – OVERWHELMING FORCE is rarely the wrong move.

    Got to bring the “Chicago Way”…

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xPZ6eaL3S2E

  13. For those In need of a primer on red pill awakening, with a judicial system backdrop mind you, I highly recommended “The Bonfire of the Vanities”…

    Still surprised this got published.

  14. If this were the sort of thing that only appeared on the bar exam we could pretty much do away with the civil system entirely.

  15. “This specific disclaimer is way over the top. If this is what your lawyers told you to say, then they are making a very big deal out of this.

    How so? Seems very succinct and to the point to me.
    A legal response to the charge of “tortious interference” by “dream” pecker.

  16. DJT’s historical mantra in a downcycle: “Stay alive in ‘95”
    21 Con’s mantra: “Drama queen in ‘19”

    While I understand their devotion to the President, their LARPing, well, is not even LARPing. Downright embarrassing.

  17. I’m not sure how what I wrote was “blue pill shaming language.” I should have clarified that all the, “my lawyers told me”, ” and,” on the advice of counsel, ” stuff was unnecessary. I think the first blog post where he announced he was no longer associated with them was enough.

    As for worse case scenario, litigation is very expensive. It costs a lot of money to sue someone. I doubt the people who bought tickets are going to spend more that what they paid to even try and recover from Rollo.

    As for litigation with Johnson et al. He’s running his mouth so much that I doubt he’d really have the balls to find a lawsuit against Rollo and spend the money it would cost to follow through with it.

  18. But Rollo, I do want to say thank you for all of the work you have done. You have helped me with turning my life around more than anyone. I owe you a a lot.

  19. I think the first blog post where he announced he was no longer associated with them was enough.

    It would have been enough, if they hadn’t used that very post to accuse Rollo of tortious interference.
    Here is the sequence of events:
    Rollo (first post): “Guys, I’m not going to be speaking at the conference anymore, just the heads up for folks…”

    Dipshit’s response: “That’s tortious interference with my customer base!! He can’t post that! I could sue….”

    Rollo (second post): “I made the first post to give everyone the heads up because I might be liable if I did not make it known, since I have been an integral part of the advertisement the whole time”

    Florida statute overrules tortious interference claim.
    I’m not a lawyer, but just following the obvious breadcrumbs.

  20. “It costs a lot of money to sue someone.”

    But, as I know from personal experience, a phone call to the consumer fraud division of the State Attorney General’s office costs very little indeed.

  21. Costs between 300 and 400 bucks to file suit in Orange County, FL.

    No doubt there are good arguments for filing elsewhere.

    Pursuing litigation is expensive. Starting it is cheap.

    If I didn’t get a refund I’d just file small claims. Very likely to get a default judgment…

  22. Buy the time we got to Warsaw, we were nearly several strong.

    That hotel is going to have corn flakes and orange juice for breakfast fer sure, just like their branch just down the street from me. Couldn’t have been a more obvious choice for an American to make.

  23. OPSEC fail already? Hoping for a newsworthy incident? FEMEN Poland alerted . . . accidentally?

    Nah, just sloppiness.

  24. Rollo.
    No matter how yours future will look like you are the man who saved my life, sexlife included, psyche and physics.
    This is the fact of the past then nothing can change it.
    Respect and full support from me.

  25. Sloppy?

    Hubris meets a desperate plea for relevance… Junior Varsity hour. I wonder what his badass group is going to say about this?

  26. @Sentient: Junior Varsity hour is far better as “sloppy” ascribes intent. At first I took it to be a false trail but that would imply a level of sophistication that is just not wholly apparent.

  27. “I wonder what his badass group is going to say about this?”

    Reflexively?

    “I’m scared to be attacked for what I/we/us are saying. We have to defend our perimeter. It’s a total war out there and we are not winning…

    Some gay, feminist, reporter might show up.

    It’s really, really scary.

    I hope I can economically survive selling my wares.

    So I feel like lashing out. “

  28. Watch what they do, not what they say also applies to some of the male characters in the manosphere. Rollo has never given a reason for us to doubt his sincerity and expertise.

  29. “These dildos seem intent on doxxing theyselves…”

    From first search last round to first hit on this round. It’s almost like being there.

  30. I’ve only just discovered Rational Male, via youtube, and for me it is like turning to the back of a puzzle book and seeing the answers. It’s kinda wierd to turn up and find a battle in progress, and I’ve nothing to offer but my best wishes.

  31. Whether subconscious or conscious, one would deductively conclude that leaking the exact hotel and conference room one week prior to the event, has some ulterior motive, whether based in pure carelessness, narcissism, or for baiting those of us operating in the real red pill into conflict for media attention.

  32. I support Rollo, but that statement was weak and passive: “if my name was used, …it was incumbent, … law required me.” Don’t cover your ass by retroactively blaming your attorneys. Just say “I informed my readers so they don’t sign up by mistake.”

  33. “Just say “I informed my readers so they don’t sign up by mistake.” ”

    That’s exactly what he did, until criminal accusations were publicly bandied about and people started wondering why he didn’t reply to them.

  34. No refund huh – surprised (sarc)
    Sure glad didn’t “invest” in a ticket

    Rollo was the main attraction – we’ll see how well it flies minus wings

    Got popcorn?

  35. I find it hilarious that he is threatening people with discovery like it’s going to be millions of pages that have to be located, cataloged, reviewed for relevance and privilege, and then produced. Assuming a lawsuit would even make it to the discovery phase, he’ll be the one to have to cough up most of the docs. And even then it’s probably a few tens of pages, a dozen emails, and some screencaps of text messages and tweets.

    A good heuristic for these situations is that the first to threaten litigation is usually the most full of shit, and the more he talks about it the less likely he actually has a lawyer who can and will follow through on those threats.

    Most of the time, the best way to address the threat of litigation is to just say, “sue me or shut the fuck up, dipshit.”

  36. Another thing. He keeps talking about how excited he will be to watch a recording of someone getting served (presumably) with the initial complaint, since the plaintiff is the one who initiates an action by serving the defendant with process.

    My question is this: exactly how are you going to find out who this guy really is and where he can be served? It’s not like you can just ask Twitter, they would be violating their own user agreement by doing so. It’s not like you can subpoena Twitter or force them to reveal that information since they are not a party to the suit and are not very likely to cooperate with your piddly little dispute. So where are you even going to find out who this guy is in the first place?

  37. I can’t speak for anyone else, but if I had spent almost $3,000 on a weekend listening to Rollo and then found out the event coordinator had disinvited him, I would be pretty frustrated, especially if the event coordinator said that refunds were not going to be given. I’m no lawyer, but in my experience that is not normal business practice. ~$3,000 is not a small sum, and since it is such an unusual state of affairs, you’d think that something like small claims court might be in order to resolve the issue.

    For those men who did not book the convention with the expectation of or the desire to listen to Rollo there is no problem, why would they try to cancel their tickets? That seems ridiculous.

    Why would a legitimate company want to be on bad terms with potential returning customers by selling them something they don’t want? Again, just for the folks who bought with the expectation of seeing Rollo, attending now is like buying a car whose engine has been removed, when you expected to buy a running car.

    Would such an unhappy customer ever want to do business with that company again? I’m not seeing it, maybe someone can clue me in.

  38. First Time Caller
    Another thing. He keeps talking about how excited he will be to watch a recording of someone getting served (presumably) with the initial complaint, since the plaintiff is the one who initiates an action by serving the defendant with process.

    Heh.
    Is that a “Dream”, or merely a LARP?

  39. 7817
    Would such an unhappy customer ever want to do business with that company again?

    Eh.
    Who needs repeat customers, or cares about word-of-mouth?
    Just “Dream” it…

  40. @ Bushi

    “Never trust an adult who puts the word “dream” as his name in his social media profile.”

    Agreed. ADJ has always been a punk ass. Rollo does come across as the adult in the room. But ADJ used to be the type of punk ass you could at least have a drink with and joke around. What really happened there? His personality appears to be melting down for other reasons unrelated to rollo. In similar but different way roosh had personality melt down recently. Everybody seems to see it except the person who is having the melt down.

  41. The Poland “Ad” is a joke. They look like a couple of vagrants, looking for a dollah in a Polish park. For those wanting their money back, they should check the web site where they bought their ticket to “the Dream”. “Speakers can change at any time”. Don’t say they didn’t tell ya. By the time October rolls around, there may be just poor Anferney remaining as your elite ambassador. That dude needs to charge RT rent for the space he’s consuming in Anferney’s noggin. Embarrassing.

  42. @palmasailor

    “Irreconcilable differences” used to be the standard reason given for upper class divorces, back in the 50’s and 60’s.

    Just saying.

  43. I wonder if Johnson’s cyclical meltdowns are triggered by chargebacks flowing in. How many buyers he needs to make it even? The ticket costs now 2200, but they have been 1600 a few weeks ago (and I don’t think there were a lot of last minute buyers with his bitching going on). He promises 16 speakers, he has to finance the plane tickets / board for them. Just the ticket from the US costs around a 1000/person, 700 if you fly on the cheapest plane from NY and buy the ticket well in advance. Plus renting the hotel, paying for dinner… Warsaw can be cheap with US standard, but if you go to high-end venues (I mean to places what he can sell to the marks as „elite”) it is not sooo cheap. I wonder if anyone has experiences with organizing something like this? How much his costs would be? There wasn’t many chairs on the pic he posted from the hotel conference room, but that pic was made a few days ago: let’s give the benefit of doubt, it could have been furnished still for another event.

    I never liked the guy, but after seeing how he smears Rollo and robs desperated blue/purple pill dudes, I wouldn’t mind seeing him crash and burn. He actively hinders people to get information which can save their life.

  44. HF

    Putting on a “conference” like this isn’t expensive. Typically most of the speakers will pay their own way in exchange for the opportunity to present their wares. A hotel will often give you a conference room, particularly if you schedule something off-season/peak, and will discount rooms blocks. The more you can provide rooms for them via your attendees, the more they will give you as the promoter. You will pay for AV in the room.

    The main cost is in marketing, i.e. selling people on attending. Which is why ADJ (lol Dream isn’t even his middle name IRL) was keen to piggyback on RT’s massive traffic advantage and promo of the RMG and Conventions… He himself has extremely limited reach. And he sure as fuck isn’t paying for ads etc… real money spent there…

    So you get 10-20 full pays you pretty much cover your nut.

    It’s such a simple business… American Conference Institute (and other similar organizers) puts on dozens and dozens a year. I really have no idea what the fuck ADJ has been crowing about withthis “unstoppable CEO entrepreneur” and how he’s been at this for 10 years… really he should be up to one a month at least now… He’s a joke.

    https://www.americanconference.com/conferences-by-sector/

    Palma

    Well now Jack is out… I guess we will have to sign up to Liminal Order to get his further views on cultivating erotic energy by having some Tinder guy bang your GF…

    https://web.archive.org/web/20151011065734/https://jackmurphylive.com/cultivating-erotic-energy/

    “Today I sent my adoring loyal hot young girlfriend of two years to have sex with a stranger from tinder. She is currently at his apartment, checked in with me via text and is presumably sucking and fucking her way to a good time.

    I’m alone writing.

    Couldn’t be happier.

    … ”

  45. ADJ: Rollo IS THE GREATEST TRAITOR IN THE HISTORY OF THE MANOSPHERE

    RT:

    ADJ: FUCKING LIAR

    RT:

    ADJ: FRAUD

    RT:

    ADJ: TRAITOR

    RT:

    ADJ: TREASON

    RT:

    ADJ: SCUMBAG

    RT:

    ADJ: PIECE OF SHIT

    RT:

    ADJ: SELL OUT

    RT:

    ADJ: LOSER

    RT:

    ADJ: FAKE

    RT:

    ADJ: #FRAUDFATHER MTHER FCKER!!!

    RT:

    ADJ: Why is he silent? Why is hiding behind lawyers? Why is he not apologizing?

    RT: “I wish the 21 Convention nothing but future success …..”

    ADJ: “torturous interference” … “I am going to sue you”

    Thanks Rollo for being a perfect Gentleman in this shit show and finishing off this scumbag with your silence,

  46. @HF:

    “wonder if Johnson’s cyclical meltdowns are triggered by chargebacks flowing in.”

    No, it is caused by Rollo’s silence on this matter. It is driving him insane. He has said so much and Rollo did not take the bait. And now he looks like a lonely pig rolling in mud.

  47. Somebody already suggested this in previous comment, but if rollo is from nevada, why not reorganize alternative venue in las vegas? Its vegas so that might create some negative perception issues, like its just an excuse for divorced men to bang hookers. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Corp America uses vegas for trade shows. There could be a way to do it right.

  48. ” There could be a way to do it right.”

    Like IDK… maybe a book, a blog, a forum for discussion? Maybe a youtube…

    How is a 30 minute talk by some guy in Vegas going to be better than that?

    How much hand holding and spoon feeding does one need FFS?

  49. “American Conference Institute (and other similar organizers) puts on dozens and dozens a year.”

    As I have alluded to before, if 21 goes bust and ADJ tries to leverage his “experience” as a conference promoter and “entrepreneur” for an outfit like American Conference, all he is qualified to be is an office boy calling the hotels for the bookings. He has at least developed that “skill.”

  50. “why not reorganize alternative venue in las vegas?”

    Nothing wrong with Reno for a small conference, and perhaps some advantages.

    East coast south, Charleston. East coast north, Saratoga Springs.

  51. @Fact

    I would not compare ‘The Dream” with Roosh.

    Roosh lost his sister last year, and also turned 40 not that long ago.. So he contemplated were he was in life, and got religion. Not necessarily a bad thing.

    ADJ went to a entirely whole different & higher level of crazy over what one guy supposed had done, when in reality many suspect ADJ felt threaten by Rollo. He could have done the adult thing and just dissolved the business partnership, but instead went to the nuclear option, then keeps on throwing nukes even though the first two or three already exploded. He seems to have dissolved into a childish rant of “…if I can’t have the manosphere to myself, no one can have it”

  52. @ Sentient

    That is the best the “great” Ivan Throne can do? His wife clearly demonstrates a fat role coming out near her arm pit in the picture.

    For someone names Throne and worth over a million, I expect better than that….

  53. @Palma. Oh FFS. I knew it was just a matter of time after ‘womanising’ Dr Who. Is nothing sacred

    Also she is not just a woman but a black woman. I am surprised they did not go the whole SJW route and make her an overweight, transgender woman in a wheelchair.

  54. @Wildside:

    “I am surprised they did not go the whole SJW route and make her an overweight, transgender woman in a wheelchair.”

    No, they didn’t. Because they know that not even overweight, transgender women in a wheelchairs would want to watch it.

  55. @Anonymous Reader:

    “It is rather like the “still face” experiment.”

    It is sad that they had to do an experiment to prove this.

    Thanks for the video link.

    I will send it to a “Strong and Independent” new mother who is planning to leave her three month old daughter in day care and return to work.

    Imagine leaving a three month old at day care where there are two carers and 10 babies … who will respond to their cries for attention?

    This is child abuse and causes a lot of trauma to the infant.

    It is any surprise that most millennials at emotionally fucked up people?

  56. @ DR Smith

    More like roosh is thrashing around trying to re-invent himself with no new content because his bang book series that wasn’t selling any more finally got dropped from amazon.

  57. Hmm, I was probably wrong about the bankruptcy part then. It is just really hard for me to understand why on earth does he do his rantings then? Why don’t he just shut the fuck up and move on? It is one thing that what he says is incoherent idiocy, but even if it would be completely true, this whole fighting clearly hurts his brand. I mean his tweets have usually like 3-4 likes (I’m pretty sure he and socrates are two of those), and the 1-2 comments are about roasting him. I regularly check his follower numbers, it steadily declining especially after his meltdowns. Doesn’t he see that?

    He did achieve something, I mean starting this company and the conventions at 17 is something I can respect even though he couldn’t swallow the red pill. How could he get even this far while being so dumb? This is harder to understand than the concept of hypergamy.

  58. Hey Rollo. Your work does speak for you as you stated and I never believed anything Anthony was saying. As a matter of fact, I cancelled my 21 University membership when I heard about what was going on and what he did to Jonathon from Modern Life Dating. I was watching an Aaron Clarey podcast recently and he said something that made a lot of sense there are some men in the Manosphere who are really full of shit. Anthony is one of them. I still stand behind you and the guys who know the deal stand behind you!

  59. @Incubus_Rising

    indeed, the collapse of family (and the multiplication of the elite-controlled-media indoctrinated Strong & Independent puppets) has altered the upbringing of most people, with the nocuous results for all to see.

    Family is a huge endeavour, it takes time and work, certainly no less than “career” — or robot-like passionless credentials collection which is what career is for the people who want one owing to indoctrination from above rather than following an actual calling.

    I know this is going to take some flack/scoff here, but I wouldn’t be against the woman being out there in the wild collecting resources and the man staying home to tend the family and offspring.
    One of the two must do it anyway, if it has not to fall apart.

    (Thus if Those Above wanted it to fall apart, they’d indoctrinate the easiest-to-indoctrinate part of the populace to not want to do it, or wouldn’t they?…)

  60. Palma

    Oh the tears… 😂😂😂

    Here is one:

    “Fact: in over 12 years, 16 events, and 150 speakers of #21CON live events, red pill Santa Claus/secret movie villain “Rollo Tomassi” has sold more tickets than any other speaker in our entire history.”

    https://twitter.com/beachmuscles/status/1151218219711176704

    Not sure how this helps ADJ’s delusion that he is the greatest manosphere event promoter… Does explain all his bitching and moaning…

    Lolz

  61. How can the fucktard ADJ claim he is the biggest promoter of manosphere events?

    Like it or not RSD are part of the manosphere … and I am sure they have made a fool of a lot more people than what 21 “Con”sters can ever “dream” of.

    So what does it take to be a Manosphere events promoter? Get a bunch of dweebs to bring any pill – “Black, Red, Purple, Blue, Pink” to shove down the chumps’ throats, park some rented lambos outside the event for a day, hire a few hookers, take the chumps to a cigar bar to “suck” on some cigars to prove they are men and to interact with the hookers. Take a lot of pictures, post it on social media and call it “Woodstock of Manosphere”.

    This is pathetic.

    I am glad Rollo is not a part of this nonsense anymore.

  62. Rollo

    Have your attorneys screen cap ADJ’S Twitter feed… He’s destroying any interference claims he might pretend to have…

    Lolzlolzlolzllzllzzzz

    “For a dude virtue signaling and busy drilling it into your head 10x a day that he’s “not in it for the money”, we sure sent him a lot of dough!!

    More than any speaker.
    Ever.
    Literally. ”

    https://twitter.com/beachmuscles/status/1151218221850120192

  63. “I wouldn’t be against the woman being out there in the wild collecting resources and the man staying home to tend the family and offspring.”

    Historically speaking hardly anyone ever stayed home. Life was too hard. The Model Family is a product of technology and wealth. Watch some British period piece and count how many servant girls there are compared to the lady of the house.

    Men have always started taking over as the primary tenders of male children at about the age of 5.

    Children became adults (albeit of a junior social grade) as soon as they could perform adult tasks. 13 to 16 years old.

    An example I use is the future admiral David Farragut. He left the primary care of women when he was eight, was at sea as a midshipman (officer in working training) entirely absent the care of women and was given his first field command at the age of 12 during which he single handed faced down a revolt of seasoned prisoner’s of war. A bit of a precocious lad, but only by a few years. Seamen might start their careers as young as 6 and officers achieve rank at about 14.

    Jim Anderson of Father Knows Best 100 years after Farragut was a feminized model. He was out gathering, not hunting and fighting.

  64. Another dot: Hunter complained a bit ago, on Twitter, that Rollo sold zero tickets to the May event.

    Hypothesis: the May event broke even or went red; scapegoat needed.

  65. “Men have always started taking over as the primary tenders of male children”

    Makes a lot of sense… One of the best thing about doing team sport out of school season is traveling with a bunch of young guys, rolling 100-120 strong to multi day tournaments out of town. Great time with the guys, great opportunity to develop them, beyond proficiency in sport.

    And ruined when there are too many moms around. Especially divorced women. 10-1 they baby the shit out of their kid…

  66. ON Red Pill/Manosphere/PUA “leaders” and money…

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BztUVRRpNdv/

    Jack’s got a good take. My own investigation into this area, most of these guys are MC at best, if not broke. Most are renting their homes. Even guys like Tyler, who has a few million a year business, probably the largest, is living in a dudes house. Roosh was in his mom’s place.

    Even Tate, let’s stipulate his bank balance is $600k… And that he owns two of his cars… So total assets of a million all in? And he’s stuck in Romania.

    Yeah they market and Instawhore and flash tweet… That’s not real money though. I’ve never been impressed with guys who say “Man I was making so much money doing XYZ, I just HAD to stop doing it to teach you guys how to”…

    OK man… lolz

  67. @kfg
    Too many people spout truisms on the state of things today with little or no regard to history and actual historical facts. What is true and visible in today’s society has little bearing on what was true and visible 50, 100, 200 years ago.

    It’s great to get reminded of history…

    Heck, of all people posting here, I’d pick kfg hands down to set down and have a beer with over the course of several days and just shoot the shit with

  68. Palma

    MC = Middle Class – $75 to 100K

    Yup they are all broke.

    SJF – the wisdom of bitchy single moms… check out the replies, all thirsty guys cheering her on.

    Sad

  69. ” . . . the first thing most men do over here when they mace some coin is to buy a decent watch . . .”

    I don’t wear a watch. That’s what I have people for.

  70. These guys have NEVER accumulated any wealth, and it shows.

    They are and always will be broke arse.

    Yep, that is indeed the key difference.

    There are quite a few guys who make 250kish in annual income but, apart from retirement savings and a primary residence, have no real wealth to speak of. They’ve lived upper middle class lives based on their income level but have never really accumulated much by way of wealth because apart from the residence and the retirement savings, they spend their income. These guys are obviously not “poor”, but they don’t have the same look, nor do they lead the same lives, as men who have some wealth. They’re highly compensated wage slaves for the most part — the top of the wage slave group, so they live comfortably, but if/when something bad happens (layoff/downsizing, wife zeroing out in divorce and taking a good chunk of the assets, health problems), it’s BOOM!

    So many guys live like this — millions if you count them all up in the big blue metros of the US.

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