False Positives

A consistent criticism I’ve received over the years is that the Red Pill is so negative. Why cant the Manosphere just sweeten up? Its truth is definable and self-evident, but why can’t Rollo adjust the ‘tone’? I’ve lived and written through several waves of newcomers to the ‘sphere and in each generation the same want for a ‘kinder, gentler’ Red Pill is always there. The idea is that if you just changed the delivery of the truth it would somehow make it more palatable to a wider audience.

Who’s It For?

I want reiterate here that it’s never been my goal to write for an audience. Whether it’s writing on this blog, my books or when I’m discussing things on various podcasts my only imperative is to convey the information I think is relevant to the topic of intersexual dynamics. My obligation is to picking apart and considering as close as I can get to an objective truth. And I don’t do this by way of some sense of duty to objectivism – it’s just the way that’s always seemed most efficient to me to come to a usable truth. It’s pragmatism on my part, not dedication.

Yes, I know, true objectivism is impossible for human beings. Yes, I also know that even biases we’re unaware of will subconsciously influence our rationality. Spare me the classicist intellectualism, I’ve been at this long enough to have considered all that. But the fact that objectivism is never perfect doesn’t mean we should strive for our best attempt at it – nor replace it with moralism.

I don’t write for an audience. I write about what I see going on around me and I connect dots. Writers today, of all medias, will tell you to “give your readers what they want” if you want to be successful. Writing about uncomfortable truths that rattle people’s cages is counterintuitive to the write-for-success mindset. If you want to sell books, if you want to monetize blogs, if you want to get more channel subscribers you gotta give the folks what they want, right? That’s how most churches work today; cater the message to the congregation if you want the tithe checks to stay consistent.

And always write to appeal to emotions too. People don’t enjoy thinking, but boy do they ever love feeling something – particularly in an age when female emotiveness is the order of the day.

When I began writing regularly it was in a forum environment. We hashed out many ideas and weren’t afraid to get ugly. It was a necessary part of the process. There was no pretense of appealing to an audience for money, traffic or readership. The sole focus was debating the truth about a dynamic. That debate was always a hot kitchen, but the results were something greater than the process.

As a result my essays carried over a lot of the heat from the SoSuave days kitchen. I wasn’t writing to impress readers or increase traffic to the blog it was just to document and codify the objective truths I came to. There is no monetization and the comment threads have never been moderated (besides spam and trolls). Almost 8 years later my charter is still about the same objective debate.

The drawback to this commitment to objective truth is that it rarely appeals to emotionalism. No, it’s not the ‘tone‘ or the feel of the information being related that’s so off-putting – it’s the information itself, and how it makes one feel, that determines whether it’s perceived as positive or negative.

Feels Before Reals

Most people who are still plugged into the proverbial Matrix are living in a world that prioritizes feels before reals. The purpose of consuming really anything is to judge it by how it makes us feel; and especially so in an era defined by the female experience. Emotion always comes before reason in women’s natural, unlearned, interpretive processes. This is also extended to men who’ve been conditioned to prioritize emotions before reason. And this is exacerbated by their need to be better feelers, better emoters, than those other ‘typical’ guys if they want an emotional woman to ever bear their children at some point.

Anything that prioritizes reason before emotion will always run the risk of being perceived as negative. Even if the sum of the information is positive, the fact that you had to come to the truth by way of reason rather than emotion will make it negative.

If you used your head instead of your heart to figure something out, in Girl-World, at best it’s bad form. At worst, you’re a negative pessimists or a cynic.

Usually those designations are reserved for the men who make a habit of using reason to the exception of emotion to relate an objective truth that’s unflattering to the feminine. Again, it’s the information, not the tone, that’s offensive to the emotions-first prioritization. To the Blue Pill mind, any strong idea that conflicts with this prioritization is an affront to the personal investments they’ve made in ideas that it challenges.

So, understand, I’m not a negative person by nature. I’m an artist. Few people know that my 2nd degree is a BFA. I draw, I paint, I play four instruments, I used to do Shakespearean stage acting – I’ve even done children’s theater.

I fully embrace the emotional as a necessary part of the human experience – Hell, half of Red Pill awareness is acknowledging and confronting emotions. I’m certainly not a cynic or a pessimist. Anyone thinking so usually hasn’t read my work. I’m very much an optimist when it comes to creating a New Hope for men in a Red Pill paradigm. I don’t just stop at clinical realism and leave men hanging. I don’t subscribe to the ennui of the “Black Pill” – I’m certainly not absolutist or a determinist.

However, I also have a commitment and an obligation to objective truth in everything I write. Trust me, there are times I wish I could use my wife and my marriage as a ‘proof of concept’ example of how a Red Pill aware guy can make a relationship work today. But the objective truth would make me look like a charlatan if I tried to convince a man that marriage was at all a good idea in its present state.

That’s tough for me. I have had to hold back from posting pictures of my beautiful wife and daughter to prove something to truly negative naysayers. Ladies, you want me to write something positive about women? I love my wife dearly. She’s been a net benefit to my life for all of 23 years now. My daughter is a model. She’s feminine to a fault and she’s smart and ambitious. I would die for her, gladly.

But I never use my personal life as an example in my work for their protection, but also because I don’t want to lead men astray by in anyway implying that what I have is possible for them. And I’ve had men tell me that, “I want what you have.”

But I don’t make value calls. I consider information, I try to interpret it, and I present it in such a way that it’s useful to men where they’re at. I want to give you tools to use to build your own life, not mine.

Truth & Hustle

Admire the Hustle. We read this a lot in the Manosphere among the guys who fancy themselves entrepreneurs. I think one reason critics think the Red Pill is negative is because all they see is the Hustle. The Hustle has a way of becoming the whole point of anything.

I’m an abortion doctor, but I make six figures and I’m the best at what I do. No one will out-work me. Admire the Hustle baby.

When the selling is more important the the product itself, then you have problems. When the truth is less important than the Hustle inevitably our truth becomes the Hustle. There needs to be a balance and that’s getting harder and harder to find now.

We’re at a moment in the Manosphere where the truth is starting to get lost in the Hustle. I’m accused of it, or I’m accused of associating with ‘too much Hustle’. Well-meaning colleagues with too much perception and not enough information are feeling that salesmen care more about the sale than the product.

I hear you.

Let me finish here by reiterating that my obligation to objective truth will always be my motivation for doing anything I put my name on. It always has been. However, I have worked for amazing companies who sold things that people loved and enjoyed only to watch them crumble and die because the sales team assumed control of the ‘product’. The selling became more important than what was being sold.

My books, my blog, my appearances, every aspect of The Rational Male is my art. I craft each essay. It’s what I care about most. I will never allow the truth to be compromised by the Hustle. The Hustle is important, particularly when it’s about disseminating the truth, but it is secondary to the truth – even to the exception of the Hustle. Sometimes the truth doesn’t sell.

This Is Important

We are rapidly entering a time when our ideas will be vilified. Very soon the objective, life-saving, praxeology that is the Red Pill will be used as a label, as a synonym, for negative ideologies that never had anything to do with the Red Pill. And people who are all about the Hustle will gladly abandon the truth they’re selling now if it means the public opinion of it would compromise their Hustle. It’ll be less about what we’re discussing than how influential and how many followers the person we’re discussing it with has.

Others, those who were appropriating the ‘brand’, will throw the Red Pill under the bus to save their own necks. The coming storm is going to test the resolve of people who are all about the Hustle and all about the Red Pill. I know where my obligations lie, they’ve never changed.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

455 comments on “False Positives

  1. Rollo,

    Reddit for me is low effort trolling/entertainment for the most part. But I can’t stand to see you smeared – and I will come to your defense if I find this happening. Below is my response to a comment on a post bashing Anthony Johnson and you pinned on the RP subreddit. Thoughts?

    “To put Rollo and Anthony Johnson in the same league is just idiotic. The VAST majority of Rollo’s high value content is available for free on his website. Some people prefer having the best essays in book form. So he profits from that. So what? What’s ironic about The 21 Convention is Johnson (with Rollo’s leadership) put on a great convention in 2017. I got a lot out of it. The key was the red pilled attendees I met. Some of which I’m still in contact with. The whole experience was unique. We fucking bulldozed the downtown Orlando party scene. Closest I ever felt to being in a hyper-masculine gang. And the feeling was pure power! That said, Johnson was arrogant beyond belief and over 4 days couldn’t find the time to introduce himself and thank me and my buddy for attending. His keynote speech was beyond over the top. He came off as a megalomaniac. I believe every word the OP posted about him. I suppose my bottom line is we can absolutely renounce the promoter of the 21 Convention without conflating his work with his personality/likeability. It’s kind of a mini travesty as if his social skills were minimally competent he could be a hugely positive influence in spreading the red pill message. United we can fucking take back Western Civ and divided we won’t even be a footnote in history. It almost makes me believe powerful BP interests are intentionally stroking the flames of infighting within the manosphere.”

    Several others came to your defense Rollo (AND RIGHTLY SO!).

  2. “I’m accused of it, or I’m accused of associating with ‘too much Hustle’. “

  3. Look Rollo, if who’s-his-reddit-face has a beef he’d make it shown here. I’ll take them on alone or in packs. Those fags aren’t, so blecch on them. Internet game is fun as the tough IRL are redoubtable online. Truth is visible and lasting in both.

    I hadn’t been keeping up with reddit….but this shit helps get rid of the bad blood…..

  4. “”If you used your head instead of your heart to figure something out, in Girl-World, at best it’s bad form. At worst, you’re a negative pessimists or a cynic.””

    There is an old game adage that says when dealing with women “think like a chick” but act like a man.

    The point being women are masters of game and in many cases are very Red Pill which they describe as “being practical”. So they’ll bang that hot guy on spring break but go back to their beta provider boyfriend because “it’s practical”. They’ll rationalize it somehow.

    On a side note I have a friend who is completely beta. He has a mid 40’s single mom “ex” who emotionally abuses and gaslights him yet he fees a need to “endure” her abuse because…there’s “4 years” there… I offered him some Red Pill advise and tried to steer him in the right direction but it truly is like trying to save a drowning man by jumping into the water with him…he just pulls me down with his rationalizations which I clearly see as his fear of his beta world collapsing around him leaving him in the position many of us who unplugged were in–seeing reality and not being comfortable with it at first.

    Men WANT desperately to live in a fairy tale because the roles are clearly defined and everybody involved understands what to do. When they’re suddenly faced with the reality of a woman’s “feral” (to quote Rollo) behavior they have no reference point to deal with it because nothing in our public consciousness teaches men how to deal with a shit-test for example.

  5. @Walawala – I’m a little worried about your buddy, does the woman have BPD? What you described in terms of the gaslighting and calculated abuse can be a symptom of a BPD. NPD as well but the cruelty is usually private with an NPD. Also, an NPD will be triggered but a BPD is random and evil. They get off on being scary and bullying and people walking on egg shells. Yet they can be so seductive. A man can get sucked into that world, there is a mental health name for it, I can’t remember. I think @Rollo went through it with a BPD girl and had a hard time extracting, right?

    I guess I’m being nosy but the way you described it really struck me. There are some good Youtube videos on BPD women, maybe find one to share with him?

    @Rollo – Good on you. I have no problem with you or anyone making money, I’d just better get my money’s worth and be treated like a customer. I view what you are doing here as mostly a didactic presentation of the truths of human intersexual relations and our current gynocentric social conditioning. It’s a very serious subject and needs to be approached seriously. You are uniquely situated given all your experiences and education to see all this in a certain way. I truly appreciate it, thanks! I’d pay 10 bucks a month to be a member here and wouldn’t mind it a bit, maybe even 15! Lol.

  6. @Scrib Thanks for the note. Don’t be worried. I’ve told him for months now to pull out. He’s like an addict sneaking drinks behind his sponsor’s back. He sheepishly confesses he bought her an airline ticket to come out here to visit during a public holiday…he sheepishly confesses he proposes to her and she rejects him. When we go out sarging he blows it every single time. He cannot talk to women. I open for him and then he starts talking to them about their jobs, running—all the tingle-killing shit. He is your classic “Nice guy” with women—overly responsible.

    I was involved with a number of Cluster B women before I know what I was dealing with…They’re addictive because you as the “nice guy” fall into a comfortable pattern of trying to “win” back that spark you had at the start. It’s chasing shadows.

    By contrast I have another friend who was in a similar situations and totally adopted the Red Pill….. I can work with him, trade stories and he gets it. This idea of “helping” someone is only useful if they want to help themselves.

  7. I’ve always seen this issue as two camps pitted against eachother but there’s overlap. Emotional people can be reached when their emotional goals are revealed to be practical goals.

  8. Offtopic before I get to the meat: what are authoritative resources for the technique of Game? There’s Neil Strauss, the Mystery Method, but what else? I’m trying to find resources for Game while avoiding outright charlatans. This site speaks more to the concepts behind and framework of Game, not actual techniques or execution. Now, that being said:

    It doesn’t matter what label something takes; if that thing runs counter to The Powers That Be and their propaganda, if it in any way contradicts conventional, widespread social opinions within the status quo, it’s going to get demonized. Doesn’t matter what it is, which is why labels such as Red Pill, White Nationalism, Alt Right, MRA and others are all demonized and vilified at “hate groups” or bigoted aggregates of “toxic” people. Don’t ever try to appease them, for you cannot; don’t concern yourself with trying to run PR campaigns against the smears, it’s just a waste of time and effort. I’ve discovered this through personal experience: focus on what matters to you, and do not give a fuck about playing the defensive.

  9. Glad to hear that Mr. Tomassi. The soap can never replace the praxeology that is TRP. Evermore it has become important to spot the snake oil salesman as they’ve seen that TRP is a source of income. Trying to give us “truth” without truth,purple instead of red.

  10. @Rollo: although this is far from the most interesting post to read for me, I understand it is a very timely post clarifying your personal and “institutional” stance.

    It is certainly something you can link back to whenever you want to re-assert your frame whenever criticism arises from within the manosphere or from outside.

    And good picture as usual.

  11. Rollo,

    Thank you for being who you are and continuing to provide valuable content throughout the years. I know it has helped many men in many different ways. Your content provides a basis for a lot of discussion with this audience on a daily basis. Your personal brand (lacking a better word here – you aren’t hustling anyone) has earned you a lot of respect and I can understand your frustration.

    Trying to look at it from the forest and not the trees, I figured I’d share my two cents.

    It’s for that reason above – that they know you care deeply about the product – that makes people push back on you.

    It’s not said much anymore, but growing up I used to hear “you are who your friends are.” This has various meanings, but one of them is that for better or worse, we become tied to the reputation of those we surround ourselves with.

    You get push back not because of anything YOU do, but because of others around you. When someone speaks ill of those who have provided value to the community and doesn’t show respect to those that earn it, they reflect it on you even if you had nothing to do with it because you call that person your friend.

    From what I can tell, people are frustrated because in trying to mentor a man and help him grow. Your reputation proceeded you and the value of your efforts was discarded because they think that individual doesn’t treat people in the community with the respect they have earned and when that happens, they lump you in with him because you went out of your way to mentor him even though that connection doesn’t track. An argument could be made that he sees his contribution of “production value” as trumping that of those who provided thought leadership and mentoring of young men, but that’s not the point of this post.

    There is value in both aspects, but perceived disrespect of the latter two elements is what ultimately caused the push back you’ve been receiving – even though you personally had nothing to do with it. We know you care about the product and not the sales – unfortunately, that is specifically why people push back on YOU and don’t waste time arguing with some others who aren’t perceived to care about the product.

    If you look at the forest and not the trees, I actually think it can become a positive space again.

    TL;DR: No one thinks you are the salesman. They likely think you are the product that is being sold and the sales team is casting a negative shadow over the product and are upset the creator of the product isn’t pushing back harder on the sales team.

  12. Good post Rollo and fully agree you should not compromise on sharing the evidence and the bitter truth.

    I would suggest the negativity comes from peoples interpretation of your writing, in particular the perception that there is no hope between men, women and relationships.

  13. @Rollo. Another good read Rollo. I learnt a lot off you Rollo, about pragmatic writing.

    I used to write things like ‘From my experience…..’ Or ‘I believe…..’ But I have stopped taking this approach, with writing, because it is immediately showing bias and it plays right into the hands of the SJWs.

    When I write about the Red Pill from a pragmatic viewpoint, the blue pills still try to take what I say and twist it into another meaning, an attack on the feminine.

    But it is easy to just answer ‘Read what I wrote again and you will see there is no attack on women or any other group of people. It is an observation of behaviour’, when I am not writing from a personal viewpoint based on bias, opinion and belief.

  14. Its hard when you are promoting the sale of these conferences more and more to make money, its pretty much a hustle and what all the panel members are doing.

    I have all the books and have read every essay post but will not be attending any of the events.

  15. Rollo, let me start by saying that I have a lot of respect for you. I consider you one of the godfathers of the manosphere and one of the most prolific authors on the topic. Your take up more space on our TRP sidebar than anybody else and I’m always excited to see new posts by you because I greatly enjoy your insights.

    TRP wouldn’t be what it is today without your contributions. So I hope that you don’t think that I’m simply shitting on you and the whole gang when I critique Dream.

    All of this aside, Dream’s behavior has been suspect for quite a while, and I think I’m putting it mildly when I say the way he conducted himself on our subreddit just recently was way, way over the line. We had no choice but to judge him on his own actions and words.

    I believe that your heart is in the right place. And I believe you when you say your dedication to objective truth continues to be your purpose. I think that it shows in your work.

    The fact is, Dream’s behavior has demonstrated to us, at least, that he’s not above using people for his own monetary gain. As I’m sure you’re quite well aware, this is something that TRP men are highly sensitive to, given the propensity of hucksters to use self-help as a means to prey on the weak.

    It suggests that Dream thinks of you the very same way he thought of us. A means for collecting ticket fees. I suspect that’s why some members here are apprehensive about your involvement. Surely you’re aware of his behavior. And if not.. why?

    As for me, I think your track record stands for itself and I know better than most that you put yourself out there to help others. I know your dedication is to growing the manosphere to reach more men. But others here are younger and may not have the same exposure that I do. And I think they question they want an answer to is why you’ve decided to hitch your wagon to a man who has outwardly demonstrated such disdain for your very goals.

    I hope I’m wrong but I have yet to see anything that would suggest otherwise. The man doesn’t appear have an ounce of humility nor the mental wherewithal to consider apologizing to our mod team. Of course at this point, as they say, too little too late.

  16. Youngmaster

    I’m trying to find resources for Game while avoiding outright charlatans.

    Yareally’s beginner toolbox, all free via searching etc.

    Am I some fuckin’ rainman magic PUA wizard over here, pin-point nailing people’s sticking points online from a few paragraphs they type in a field report? No, I’ve just studied the original PUA shit in-depth and I’m seeing angles that other people didn’t learn in their abbreviated version of pickup they studied so I can go “your problem is XYZ, it’s on Page 23 of this book or explained in this RSD video” and they’re like “woah, I never even thought about it that way before”.

    “If a guy was starting out from scratch, what are the exact sources you would point him to today, in order?”

    If a guy wanted to REALLY nerd out hardcore and get an extremely thorough understanding of this shit, like the type of understanding that’s going to take a couple years to digest and process and master, this is all the important shit:

    1) Mystery Method, the original book (google the PDF) and all the seminar DVDs on YouTube where Mystery explains it all so they have a thorough understanding of the concepts. This is basically the all-encompasing big daddy.

    2) Liam Mcrae – Rapid Escalation (entire video) on YouTube – This’ll teach a guy about laser eye-contact and creating sexual tension

    3) Specifically 27:00 to 50:00 in Richard La Ruina – Formula for Night Game on YouTube – This backs up what Liam’s talking about

    4) Juggler Method – This is for learning to build solid rapport with people

    5) Julien’s PIMP product. Fortunately the most important parts of it are on YouTube. Specifically watch these vids, these concepts are advanced shit. The other stuff in PIMP is about closing numbers and plowing etc. but you can find him talking about that stuff in his free vids on YouTube if you don’t want to spend the money.”

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/essenbetenficken/#comment-659661

    “This site speaks more to the concepts behind and framework of Game, not actual techniques or execution.”

    Not true… Behold the Field Reports section…

    https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/

    Post your real world field reports and questions there for input…

  17. I don’t find Rollo negative at all. In fact his calm, methodical approach is what gave him some initial credibility in my eyes, and then of course I saw how many previously puzzling ups and downs in my life made sense given the framework he provides.

    Rollo, I’m often frustrated by your methodical writing style, but the readers and clients I serve usually need some shiny object waved in their face before I can get to the meat, while your readers come here highly motivated to see what you have to say.

    So your way works for your audience, and stands in contrast to the increasingly fact-free, hysterical, look-at-me style driven by the Feminternet.

  18. @Youngmaster – Sentient has given you the exact reference you require. Mystery Method is the foundation. And keep in mind, he doesn’t teach “pick up”, he teaches seduction. You will find detailed, step by step instructions on how to calibrate properly with a woman and how to move from interest to attraction to comfort to arousal.

    One surprise for you. Getting laid as a “lover type” is much more about logistics than I ever realized. It’s also not a “mystery” in that if you base your efforts in Mystery’s concepts, you will always know what’s going on. It’s also fun cuz you really get deep and very personal with the girl. Done right, it sinks the hook deeply.

    I love how Mystery handles “LMR” (last minute resistance). You know, you get back to her place or she’s at your’s and she changes temps and resists your advances. I instinctively did what he recommends. I just say, “Oh” and then flip on the TV or grab a book or turn on my laptop. I send the signal that if she’s not interested in sex, I’m not interested at all…No drama, no argument, no conflict. And it works every time. I’ve read field reports of guys like Roosh overcoming LMR and they sounded like sexual assaults/rape to me – I’m utterly uninterested in the kind of game Roosh et al engage in. Fyi, you’ll note most of Roosh’s “success” was in Eastern Euro countries. Lol. Like shooting fish in a barrel for a white American man…And even then, he struggled.

    But I learned this long before pickup. In part it’s cuz I always had a bit of an abundance mentality about pussy even as I had women on a pedestal. Good luck out there. Posting field reports is a great way to get feedback. But one warning – only listen to guys who are actively gaming. It’s a skill that doesn’t sit on the shelf very well, in part because the social context for women is changing so rapidly. Also, YaReally is the master. There was another guy who journaled a lot of YaReally’s stuff, google and follow his advice.

  19. Fuck that guy,his little telemarketers are trying to act the therapist.
    He promises one thing and never comes through. A man is as good as his word….
    The basic hustler is even hustling the man he’s promoting.
    Some times these slicksters need to starve to learn the value of what they are taking.

    No way you give me something free then ask for my credit card number to get it and tell me I have to cancel in a certain way then act as if you are doing me a favor.

  20. Bromeo

    “Its hard when you are promoting the sale of these conferences more and more to make money”

    That’s not my sense of things since Rollo has startes to be a leader. I think there is more concern with making a statement than making money. Pushing the ideas.

    It’s growing and gaining critical mass.

    Rollo’s tweeter is growing every month. Now north of 42k followers. I predict he will be banned (not shadow banned he’s already there) when he hits 50k.

  21. @Youngmaster

    A bit too late to the PUA scene.

    RSD is finished with PUA.
    sedfast (the #1 PUA forum) is shutting down their forum at the end of the month.
    YaReally, the best PUA to ever post on manosphere blogs (Chateau Heartiste and here on The Rational Male), is gone.

    Mystery Method is outdated.

    As the only guy here who posts lay reports (I’ll add one to the Field Reports section after this post), I’ll give you the best resources to get you to master level. So that once you get this handled you can move on to other interests.

    Read: Technical Game Bible by Saul Tee

    Get: The System by Todd V (formally RSDTodd) and Surgical Pickup by Gabriel Grey

    Then join these Facebook Groups (this is where the best PUAs hangout):

    Surgical Pickup Technical Cold Approach Game
    Ultimate Man Project

  22. “As the only guy here who posts lay reports”

    @j

    I’m interested in your opinion why MM is outdated and why you believe your lay reports give you esteem beyond anyone else. Why is that so?

  23. So many guys are trying to sell courses, consulting, and programs, and seem focused on the hustle over the content. Some guys start free then get to the hustle when they realize they can profit; I used to read MMSL many years ago before it got commercialized and female approved, that turned me off completely

    Rollo is an exception for having all of his content free or almost free (the books), and for giving his time for free (sosauve)

    The 21convention is pay to play, I get that some people would think that this makes it a sell out or a hustle for Rollo.
    Right…how would you put on a convention for free? You can’t. How would you get quality panelists for free? You can’t. People with a valuable message need to be compensated for their time. Not only that, but paying something makes you invest your energy and effort to get something out of your investment by applying the information and doing the work.
    If you value that in person interaction you put your time and money where the value is.
    A lot of men are going to get more growth out of one weekend with like minded men than from 100 books or 1000 blogs. That’s worth the money.

    1. @redpillrabbi. I totally agree. I am going to Poland this year, I like them Central\Eastern European women. I would love to really go to 21, while in Poland, but I need to put my money elsewhere.

      I think it will be an excellant experience for any man who attends.

  24. @eh

    There are still some good concepts in the original 2007 MM text that are applicable today. but there are also some bad.

    What the guys I recommended have done is taken the good from Mystery Method (preselection, lock in, group theory) and improved upon on it (the way you Demonstrate Higher Value…not via telling cringy made up “hey so check this out” stories) and added some of their own (opening with sexual state while matching her current state – Gunwitch (Mystery Method was against girls sensing your sexual agenda from the open), sex talk – Teevster (Mystery was against talking about sex during the seduction and never did in his interactions. but we’ve found, doing so, moves the seduction faster, as it increases sexual tension/arousal), and throwing away the bad/outdated concepts (7 hour rule, peacocking (the way the old school PUAs talked about it), freeze outs) from MM due to the rapid changes in the environment (post-tinder “eat, pray, love” open hypergamy culture that really started to take hold right around 2013-14).

    “why you believe your lay reports give you esteem beyond anyone else”.

    anyone else who wants to post lay reports feel free to do so.

  25. “Right…how would you put on a convention for free?”

    When I had a brick & mortar:

    Them: You must have money, you own your own business.
    Me: My own business? I work for the landlord, the utility company, the insurance company, the telecom company, the state and the feds. If I’m lucky they let me keep a little something around Christmas time. When I’m not lucky I end up owing them.

    But hey, it’s not all bad. At least I get to choose whichever 100 hours a week I want to work.

  26. Youngmaster

    Heed this…

    J: “YaReally, the best PUA to ever post on manosphere blogs”

    Yareally: “Am I some fuckin’ rainman magic PUA wizard over here, pin-point nailing people’s sticking points online from a few paragraphs they type in a field report? No, I’ve just studied the original PUA shit in-depth and I’m seeing angles that other people didn’t learn in their abbreviated version of pickup they studied…

    If a guy wanted to REALLY nerd out hardcore and get an extremely thorough understanding of this shit, like the type of understanding that’s going to take a couple years to digest and process and master, this is all the important shit:

    1) Mystery Method, the original book (google the PDF) and all the seminar DVDs on YouTube where Mystery explains it all so they have a thorough understanding of the concepts. This is basically the all-encompasing big daddy.”

    J: “Mystery Method is outdated.”

    That about explains that…

    Faster is not necessarily better. Mystery’s method was about pulling solid, not fast. Learn the fundamentals of the derivatives that followed… Go for solid and consistent. A lot of the “faster is better” stuff is wildly uncalibrated…

  27. Sentient linked to the MM book yesterday so I decided why not read it and maybe learn something?

    My response is that he’s got some solid suggestions on body language, tone, and how you confidently carry yourself in a public space. I don’t club but I can see some day-game applications.

    I’m still skeptical that groups of people are happy to have some stranger barge in, sit down and start babbling about this or that, but as I said I don’t hang out in clubs, so maybe that’s how it goes.

    And much of his suggested dialogue is eye-rolling imbecilic — but as I have come to see, most dialogue is merely a place-holder to enable prolonged eye-contact and other non-verbal pre-foreplay.

    The one glaring omission: he never mentions the girl’s phone. Has he done an updated edition for the challenges of the smartphone era? His photo-envelope scenario would have to be updated — no one walks around with hard-copy snapshots anymore.

    To the author’s credit, he also in passing warns against engaging women with any kind of logic, which might be the most important point any man can keep in mind.

    So that’s my book report. I don’t think anyone dies at the end, which is the one thing you usually need to know for the quiz.

  28. j,

    I asked as there’s much inauthentic about your take on the world and here’s why, for one….

    “MM due to the rapid changes in the environment (post-tinder “eat, pray, love” open hypergamy culture that really started to take hold right around 2013-14).”

    Question: How was 2013-14 a watershed moment in intersexual dynamics?

    Answer: It wasn’t.

    You were then just pulling your life out of incel wasteland, I suppose, so you believe all that is relevant to the conversation started then. It’s not a big mystery that people by nature act as world history began at their birth. It’s a bias that shows in your writing.

    It’s straight up LARPing when you write that stuff and casts all your oddly generic post lay FR’s into speciousness.

    They are as contrived, with no actual details that differ from some phony baloney site. I’ve read them too.

    You’d be better off writing, hey guys, this was cool, I did this.. .but you don’t as to write details would draw sharpshooters and remove all doubt of your inauthenticity. So you state the opposite about yourself as a virtue.

    I was told you posted a pic of a conquest somewhere. To what end? I’m not judging, though I’m trying to square your confident words with your needful actions. Really I am.

    YaReally said a lot of the same things too…”the post tinder SMP is sooo different than before.”.

    Uh no. And I’m out there 3-4x weekly. Girls, if anything are begging for some authentic, calm, confidence more than ever.

    It takes them no more time than ever to figure out what they want with something verifiably true in front of them with none of the cost you seem to spend on travel, logistics, clothes, etc.

    I’m not arguing against your style…and I know well versed players full court press my wife when we’re out. They literally act as you write about yourself.

    lt’s hilarious as she frustrates the hell out of them by nodding quietly then asking a non sequitur question about themselves, usually starting with some literature question. It’s always the same….once off the algorithm PUAs are lost, stammering.

    Something’s not legit about you and getting laid is much easier than you present it to be.

    Have a nice evening, too. 🙂

  29. @eh

    “Question: How was 2013-14 a watershed moment in intersexual dynamics?”

    That was around the time the convenience of hookup apps started to gain power. Tinder was 2012. Bumble came two years later. Snapchat and Instagram were developed in 2010 and 11 respectively, but didn’t gain mainstream popularity until around 2013.

    The effects these apps have had on society today have been discussed endlessly by folks smarter than me but some of the obvious ones….

    clubs being emptier compared to the < 2011 (It used to be that Friday and Saturday were the busiest days. Now it’s just Saturday. (more people staying at home, swipping right on who they want to fuck that night based on looks alone).

    Travel is very cheap. Not to mention the endless articles that have been shared on social media throughout the years about “chasing experiences, not possessions.” Girls seeing their friend’s snapchat/instagram flexing about going to all these foreign destinations, makes them in turn want to do the same (FOMO). And we know what happens when girls travel alone/with their best friends with no one to judge them.

    The rise of shamelessness of behaving slutty out in the open, due to it being reframed as empowering vs something one should be ashamed about. I don’t think we’d see posts like this out in public for everyone to see, prior to 2011:

    https://twitter.com/aliciamaaarie/status/1118523094384046082

    “They are as contrived, with no actual details that differ from some phony baloney site”

    Lmao

    “Girls, if anything are begging for some authentic, calm, confidence more than ever.”

    agree. But that has nothing to do with Mystery’s Method being outdated tho….

    “I know well versed players full court press my wife when we’re out”.

    isn’t your wife like 60+ years old? players still hitting on your wife? …..I don’t know about that one, chief lol

    “getting laid is much easier than you present it to be”.

    Agreed! There should be wayyyy more lay reports from other posters besides me in the Field Reports section. Disappointing tbh

  30. Eh

    Lol. @J is alright. I don’t seriously doubt any of his Fr’s because, as I’ve been saying here for years and years, women will fuck. have been fucking, and will continue to do so. The disconnect is with young guys that were baffled initially by the mechanics and wherefores of how to get a woman/girl to actually touch their pee-pee. Nothing about ” sex ” has really changed. Pua isn’t teaching ” seduction ” in any really meaningful way post MM, but as @J will tell you, it’s not about seduction, it’s about pulling as fast as humanly possible.

    Go to club ( nowhere else exists ), spot acceptably high HB female ( HB varies depending on the guy’s specific tastes….HB6 is NEVER HB9, but whatevs…). One can call this stuff ” seduction ” , but one can also call a butterfly Rodan. What former incels don’t ever fully understand is that they aren’t seducing as much as they are shooting fish in a barrel. Why do a lot of chicks even go out to clubs in the first place? If a guy wasn’t incel or confused about women in the first place, he’d already know the answer.

    The cell phone/tinder/” everything is all different now ” meme is also a part of not understanding seduction or even base masculinity. Once YaReally and I did an experiment. He told me to go out in the field and see if I could get chicks to put down their phones. I also posed a question to all of them concerning if they’d abandon social media for ” the right man ” ( hard to do because we’re talking about a pretty short interaction in random places ((no clubs)) ). Personally, I’ve never ever had any issues with trying to get the attention of a woman/girl or getting her to put the phone down, and I basically do the exact same shit that I have done since 1974. I hear the excuses, but I never bought them because I am a man, and they are just girls. So it is written, so it is done .

    Anyway, in the YaReally experiment, every woman I spoke to put their phones down/away. I spoke to broads across the spectrum, and actually found the Land Whales to be the most resistant, which was fucking hilarious.

    Smartphones are a real problem within a certain generation, and as a whole generally, but if a man is less interesting than candy crush, he gets what he deserves. Lol. Every day on the drive home I see a half dozen brightly lit signs admonishing drivers to ” put down the phone and drive “. But imo, in male/female interaction, it’s not really a factor. It is an easy excuse though, ” everything’s changed with phones and tinder and the internet/social media and flying cars and rising oceans..”.

    You do realized it was much harder to get sex once the horse and buggy were replaced by automobiles, right? Fucking Henry Ford producing cars the masses could afford and shit. We’re lucky we didn’t go extinct.

    My ongoing problem is that guys that struggled in any capacity with women and understanding their natures are so sure that 1) ” No man ” can do ” X ” with women…unless pua trained, and 2) Every swinging dick has exactly the same experiences, or anxiety, or failure rate. Copious blogs and reddits attest to this, and that’s the part of the equation that breathes life into the fallacy.

    Sentient talks about MM, but Sentient also talks a lot about seduction, not just random speed pulling. What some guys fail to take to heart, is that practically any woman with a pussy will fuck you, regardless of any potentially overriding factors. That idea seems totally crazy. It’s certainly not possible without the assistance of Todd Valentine and the guys at Nextasf…Nexasf….whatever it’s called.

    One other thing, there’s a particular chant from the most confused commenter here about ” not listening to guys that aren’t actively out there…or whatever “, and that’s been said a few times. That’s bad advice. Especially if that guy saying that stuff is perpetually in flux by women – hot, cold, frozen, hot again – but never understanding WHY because he lacks understanding on an internal level and tries to make this into an intellectual exercise. It’s not. It’s sex. Mountain out of a molehill.

    I haven’t been on a bike in 40 years, I’d bet 10,000$ I wouldn’t fall off of one today.

    Pickup at it’;s core can be hit or miss. All part of that particular game, so to speak. Seduction is 100% guaranteed, but the skillsets are very different and organic, for lack of a better descriptor. I have never wondered If I could have sex with woman ” A “, instead the question is do I want to have sex with woman ” A “. Never in her frame, not even in my thoughts. It ain’t ever about her.

    So you will never, ever, ever get any satisfaction questioning a true believer in pua . The narrative will always be about what some other guy wrote/said in a video/forum. Little original thought – and that hinders the ability to understand seduction, which makes pulling some dtf chick out of a club seem like magic.

    Her frame.

    Saying ” she chooses “= her frame. Demonstrating value = her frame.

    Seducing a random chick not in a club = your frame. Always stay in your frame.

    @Rollo

    I dig the OP. You had to understand going in that ” growth ” would become frustrating at some point, because others don’t happen to share your motivations. It is a problem that the Red Pill is being co-opted for sometimes nefarious reasons, and that just a handful of opportunist could ruin the good stuff for everyone. To quote Chris Rock ” Grand opening….grand closing “.

    The media is staring to get more and more of whiffs of ” Red Pill “, but it’s always some negative ( and deadly ) appropriation of the term by interloping dickheads for personal reasons. sigh nothing can be done about that unfortunately. And yes, it’s probably going to only get worse over time until the next shiny object distracts.

    The good news is that over time, you’ve accumulated enough true gravitas amongst readers and convention attendees to most likely weather a storm that might just wash away the more disingenuous. I for one have never equated you with anyone you associate with in order to get the message about intersexual dynamics. There’s them, then there’s you – separate interties.

    All of us appreciate your work and dedication, and hopefully that can be enough over the long haul.

  31. Outdated Mystery Method concepts:

    Peacocking

    Don’t go out dressing like this if you’re trying to give yourself the best odds of getting laid in 2019:

    http://www.thepickupdiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/mystery-and-style-peacocking.jpg

    dress closer to this:

    https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article11838205.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/NBA-London-Game-2018.jpg

    7 Hour Rule

    Sentient talks about pulling “solid and consistent.”

    All the best seducers I know, pull girls in less time than 7 hours consistently.

    Freeze out/LMR

    you don’t have to deal with it, if you prevent it in the first place.

    Bacchus (master seducer from my group who doesn’t follow Mystery Method):

    “Take ASD for example, if you can handle it effectively, with prevention strategies like sexual framing [NOT TAUGHT IN 2007’s MYSTERY METHOD]. Then you will not have to waste hours dealing with LMR later on. So by effectively handling ASD, you also increase your overall efficiency.”

  32. “The rise of shamelessness of behaving slutty out in the open, due to it being reframed as empowering vs something one should be ashamed about. I don’t think we’d see posts like this out in public for everyone to see, prior to 2011:

    https://twitter.com/aliciamaaarie/status/1118523094384046082

    J, if you’d been around longer, you’d get that there’s only been a slight increase in ” slutty behavior ” by a small percentage of females.

    What’s different, and you’re making my point, is the exposure/internet/social media. Everybody puts everything on the internet, so it seems to the more insulated among us, that shit’s gone crazy.

    Google: Platos retreat.

    hardly any pics or information available.

    …. I tried to get in a few times myself, but that’s another story.

  33. @blax

    “Once YaReally and I did an experiment. He told me to go out in the field and see if I could get chicks to put down their phones”.

    stupid experiment. don’t know why Ya told you to do that lol.

    “I also posed a question to all of them concerning if they’d abandon social media for ” the right man”

    yes because we should all believe what women say…..

    “I basically do the exact same shit that I have done since 1974”

    Because you internalized game at a young age….you didn’t need PUA/MM/RSD blah blah…..(((I)) DID because I was clueless/socially retarded…..like

    https://i.redd.it/jvtj37x2uqd11.gif

    “I hear the excuses”

    where do you see me making excuses?

    I said what’s up (traveling cheap, slutty behavior = socially acceptable, clubs less filled than before social media/hookup apps). Just facts.

    MM is outdated (there’s some good shit in there, but there’s also some outdated shit) Here’s some shit that is more up to date bro (@youngmaster)

    “Anyway, in the YaReally experiment, every woman I spoke to put their phones down/away”.

    like I said….retarded experiment lmao

    “No man ” can do ” X ” with women…unless pua trained”

    WHO THE FUCK IS SAYING THIS???? Straw man

    “Sentient talks about MM, but Sentient also talks a lot about seduction”

    ….he’s also the guy that’s failed to bang a 40 year old woman with 2 kids. in two separate occasions. Read his latest FR.

    “not just random speed pulling”.

    I see a girl I like. I talk to her. Then bang her that night. Then, if I like her personality enough I give her my number and bang her another night. Simple.

    “Saying ” she chooses “= her frame. Demonstrating value = her frame”.

    if I’m not her ideal type (girls that I get are hotter than girls I should be getting according to SMV charts….I’m like a 6 bro (above average)) so I rarely get girls coming up to me “OMG your like so hawt!!!”), she will not choose me. I demonstrate value (attract her), then she chooses me.

    seducer – a person who entices (attract or tempt by offering pleasure or advantage) someone into sexual activity.

  34. Lol, I love ya @J,

    ” where do you see me making excuses?”

    … Roll that beautiful excuse footage –

    ” That was around the time the convenience of hookup apps started to gain power. Tinder was 2012. Bumble came two years later. Snapchat and Instagram were developed in 2010 and 11 respectively, but didn’t gain mainstream popularity until around 2013.

    The effects these apps have had on society today have been discussed endlessly by folks smarter than me but some of the obvious ones….

    clubs being emptier compared to the < 2011 (It used to be that Friday and Saturday were the busiest days. Now it’s just Saturday. (more people staying at home, swipping right on who they want to fuck that night based on looks alone).

    Travel is very cheap. Not to mention the endless articles that have been shared on social media throughout the years about “chasing experiences, not possessions.” Girls seeing their friend’s snapchat/instagram flexing about going to all these foreign destinations, makes them in turn want to do the same (FOMO). And we know what happens when girls travel alone/with their best friends with no one to judge them.

    The rise of shamelessness of behaving slutty out in the open, due to it being reframed as empowering vs something one should be ashamed about. I don’t think we’d see posts like this out in public for everyone to see, prior to 2011:”

    Been reading this same, lame shit here for years.

    Women have not changed biologically, nor even that much mentally. All of that other nonsense is just a distraction that some men read into as being ” important, distinctive reasons “.

    I used to tell Ya that I didn’t know anybody that used Tinder ( and I know a shit-ton of people ) or dating apps or Bumble or Mumble. Snapchat is played out mostly, as is Instagram ( at least that’s what most of the youngin’s I know are saying ).

    But you’re doing great, so never mind what I see. Just don’t use that stuff as a ” reason it’s all so different now “.

    Now, back to the Pacific Ocean.

  35. P.S.

    The YaReally thing, I think I was challenging his assertion that it was so hard to talk to a chick when she’s looking at 10,000 orbiters on her phone or some such thing. I challenged that assertion a dozen times, but to his (dis)credit, Ya never relinquished or rethought what he was putting out as ironclad facts.

    Now, splash.

  36. @blax

    “What’s different, and you’re making my point, is the exposure/internet/social media”.

    That’s what I’m saying! I said it’s out in the open and nobody gives a fuck. because internet culture said its cool now! I didn’t say girls never behaved slutty prior to the birth of Tinder/Snapchat/Bumble. Just that, that shit was really low key, because that was something a girl was taught by society/parents to be ashamed about. Being a slut = bad. Now being a slut = good. So nothing to feel shameful about. Lay it all out there on the internet for the world to see, girl!

  37. “….he’s also the guy that’s failed to bang a 40 year old woman with 2 kids. in two separate occasions. Read his latest FR.”

    He’s also a guy that has 5 wonderful children and bangs his wife all the time. And has a life as a businessman. And has abundance.

    And you are faulting his advice and him, for what?

    Let me ask J. a question. Why did YaReally disappear? Vanishing from everywhere?

    And let me ask another question. Why are you here on TRM and it’s focus on Red Pill? To tell a different narrative. Or to add to the narrative of this blog?

    No one ever will criticize you for getting your notch count where you want to be (taking credit and external validation for bar sluts and all…, and there is nothing wrong with that. At all.) But do you understand that there are other forces in play? J. walking is fun. Until you end up taking stock in what you want to do, who you are and what it is you really want to be.

    Geez, when you see 27 year olds that have traction in how they developed themselves and have purpose and mission on where they want to end up each decade, man that is cool stuff. Self validation for competence and confidence in their direction outside of external validation for fucking bar sluts? (not that there is anything wrong with fucking bar sluts. Or that you are in a run down the water-slide, which is less skillful as you might be describing. Which is Blax’s point.)

    Where do you see yourself in each of the next five decades J? There is nothing you are doing wrong right now J. You have a nice phase going on here. What else you got? Or do you need nothing else?

    Hey, what do you see your future as? You might start pontificating on that here. YaReally did a great job on that, and you are his spawn. Got for it.

  38. @blax

    “… Roll that beautiful excuse footage –”

    Those are not excuses….those are simply things that did not exist in 2007 at the time, Erik Von Markovik published his magnum opus.

    There was no Tinder/Bumble/Instagram/Snapchat (might as well add TikTok). This is not an excuse. This is a fact. Go check the wikipedia page of these apps if you don’t believe me.

    Clubs were packed Fridays and Saturdays. Because everybody who wanted to get laid in 2007 by someone new had to go out…there were no convenient hookup apps where you could stay home.

    Don’t know how cheap travel was in the 2007, but google the tagline, “buy experiences, not things” and check the date those articles were published.

    There was no Facebook (well there was…but it was “facebook” yet) or instagram around for girls to post photos of their exotic trips and receive thousands of likes/validation that made other girls envious/jealous (“I want that!”). Think people were still going to Kodak to get their vacation photos printed.

    and already explained the “shameless” point in my comment above.

    Not excuses. just facts.

  39. Rollo,

    Timely post, I was starting to wonder how far down the rabbit hole you were going to go on the hustle side of the red pill. The conventions are good, 2017 was probably the zenith. Don’t know if you have spotted them but there are clearly issues with Anthony Johnson, if you extend his claimed “Objectivist” viewpoint it’s just laying the moral framework in his head for justifying pretty much anything he does, completely amoral, yet talks about the importance of the Patriarchy, it just doesn’t jibe, neither does his Medusa story, like attracts like.

    Most of the crew on the Redman group is pretty solid, guys like Steve the Dean, Donovan, Carl, Ryan and others do want to help guys. Other guys like the Japan Modern Life guy are clearly in it for the money.

    The vast majority of men who discover the red pill will have more awareness and it will likely lead to more MGTOW/Incel/Blackpill as you can’t unsee this stuff. Most men won’t implement the positive side of the Red Pill, it’s simply just too hard to tear down/rewire/rebuild your entire life from your own mental processes/family/physical/financial/personality/career etc. Very few men want to slay the dragon the vast majority are fine with average.

    Since learning about the Red Pill and implementing it slow over the last 4 years ago, I’m a completely different person. In the end it’s not really about women at all, it’s about yourself and being the best version of yourself everyday and pushing past the comfort zone daily and grinding, it’s total accountability to yourself and no one else. Women are naturally drawn to this, and you don’t even really have to do anything as you are automatically in the top 10%. After putting in the work and continuing to do so, I now don’t even notice some women as they just simply aren’t worthy of my attention.

    The most precious resource we have is time, and personally I don’t want to spend much of it chasing/looking for women. I want to create wealth, to buy myself more free time , stay in get in and stay in top physical shape and challenge myself daily and hit new personal highs daily and enjoy the grind. If you are in the top 10% it is easier than ever to get women, you just got to be yourself(if you are in the top 10%), I guess that’s why they always say be yourself. 🙂

  40. The attention on the phone is a buffer from the guy to justify the fact the he is just not high value enough to that particular woman to attract her attention. Women will put the phone down if you are high value enough, how high must I jump you ask ? to 10% of men to her

    The answer as always is more work, pursue excellence in your domains and they will naturally come, genuine desire gentlemen.

  41. Yareally was a clown, the guy worshiped RSD Tyler…I remember when Tyler posted on here and Rollo absolutely destroyed him lol

  42. I don’t believe Ya was a clown. I had a ton of ( internet) respect for him, and he was immensely helpful to hundreds of guys ( dozens?) Over the years. Ya was a true believer in his marrow.

    The constant posting of RSD crap was tiresome though, and to this day I have no idea what YaReally actually thought because he only echoed what other pua’s said.

    That was almost as frustrating as the constant exaggeration, which is still present here from time to time ( social media, jetting off to hang- lol, most bitches/people are broke as fuck…).

    Ya was expert in breaking down stuff to a pua level, distilling it down to acronyms and such.

    But to a non practitioner like me, it was just a bit too much of a production. Like a 4 hour lecture on how to boil an egg. He seemed pretty clueless beyond that, meaning EVERYTHING became exaggerated and pretty negative. That was my biggest issue, the negativity. Banging chicks won’t fix that.

    Lol, the first time Rollo removed an RSD video ( out of dozens posted ), he lost his shit. Then of course, he tried to figure out how he could have kids and avoid the legal systen, which mostly involved a relentless attack on ” the omgs “( his term) and his feelings got hurt.

    People praised him and kissed his ass so much that it went to his head and he lost the ability to calibrate outside of pua, and this is not a pua forum. He lamented having to ” fight attacks “.

    He started a fight and quit halfway through.

    Because, he was wrong.

  43. Blax

    I’m not sure at this point if J is simply ignorant or willfully disingenuous…

    What the guys I recommended have done is taken the good from Mystery Method (preselection, lock in, group theory) and improved upon on it (the way you Demonstrate Higher Value…not via telling cringy made up “hey so check this out” stories) and added some of their own (opening with sexual state while matching her current state – Gunwitch (Mystery Method was against girls sensing your sexual agenda from the open), sex talk – Teevster (Mystery was against talking about sex during the seduction and never did in his interactions. but we’ve found, doing so, moves the seduction faster, as it increases sexual tension/arousal), and throwing away the bad/outdated concepts (7 hour rule, peacocking (the way the old school PUAs talked about it), freeze outs) from MM due to the rapid changes in the environment (post-tinder “eat, pray, love” open hypergamy culture that really started to take hold right around 2013-14).

    All of these guys have been around since well before 2013… lol

    Gunwitch? Uh.. been on boards since before The Game (in which he was mentioned)… His method? Circa 2004…

    https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/gunwitch-method-the-way-to-get-laid.46286/

    It’s stupid. Basically screening game, with a Retard Layer on top. [btw Gunwitch is 5’7″ and looks like this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4cNQuSUTzOw/TScNxVUGgDI/AAAAAAAAAHs/tf64y_GJSZM/s320/Gunwitch.jpg put that in your Looksmax pipe and smoke it!]

    Here is just some of the retardation on display…

    “Looks, Effort, and their Interrelation:

    Looks scale: -1- being the worst conceivable, and –10- being the best.
    Effort scale (amount of women approached and overall drive to ensure sex with them): -1- being utterly rarely, -5- being a few on weekends or acquaintances from social circles, and -10- being at least three new women per day. –1- drive = will say hello to a woman but not much else, -5- will try to get her interested in him until the first sign of trouble or disinterest, -10- will outright make her become angry or verbally reject you 100% before even considering moving on.

    Take a guy who is a –1- in looks (perhaps fat, short, hideous face, balding, old, smelly, poorly dressed, etc.), but a -10- in effort. This guy will STILL land women who are -5.5s- once in while, and –3s- frequently.

    To explain, allocate 1 total point for every 2 points on the scale, for what you can get with maximum effort. So, if you are a –10- in looks, but only exert a –1- in effort, you can probably still sex -5.5s- (ie. 11 divided by 2) on occasion, and approximately half of that, or -3s-, whenever you are inclined. Eventually you will arrive at someplace in between your –maximum- capacity and your –easy- capacity for your regular quality of women.

    I, for instance, am maybe an –8- in looks (short, ok face, good built body, well dressed and groomed), and a –10- in effort. So dividing by two, we allocate 4 points for looks and 5 points for effort, arriving at a 9 at –maximum- capacity, and approx. 5 at –easy- capacity. I have of course gotten some 10s in my day, but that’s just the deviation, as women higher than 6 would be for Example Guy #1. So to recap:

    Example Guy 1:

    -1-LOOKS + -10-EFFORT = 11,

    THEREFORE,

    MAXIMUM CAPACITY = 5.5, EASY CAPACITY = approx. 3

    Gunwitch:

    -8-LOOKS + -10-EFFORT = 18,

    THEREFORE,

    MAXIMUM CAPACITY = 9, EASY CAPACITY = approx. 5

    What creates the extra points from effort is that you meet MORE women, so SOME of these women will find even the guy with –1-looks/-10-effort somewhat attractive. Probably the best that he will ever do is a 6 who somehow finds him attractive. Mr –10-looks/-1-effort could go out approaching at a 5.5 in effort and change his whole lot, because he would meet so many more women who would find him attractive, or who have trouble saying no to his advances, but instead he takes the easy ones. His loss. By the way, Mr.-10-looks/-1-effort, and Mr. –1-looks/-10-effort are both REAL people that I know, and it works out about the same for both of them with women. If Mr. –1-looks/-10-effort suddenly stopped meeting and trying to seduce new women, he would probably go to his grave never having had sex again, unless maybe with some chance woman of his low calibre were to come along and make the effort herself.”

    WIA take on Gunwitch… Take note! J’s string of 6/7 girls backs this up…

    “I’ve used it. I continue to use it. It has worked for me in the past.
    I highly recommend using it.

    The upside – it’s a very focused method. GWM is letting the reptilian part of your brain take over.

    Compared to guys who write treatises on cat string theory, or wax poetically about how females with buzz cuts are secretly going to get Clinton elected to empress of all men and then pass laws to gather all up the guns and do mandatory castrations, it’s about finding chicks that are DTF, stepping to them, getting them alone, and fucking them.

    The downside – Say you get yourself into a sexual state before you go out, say watch some xvideo, do some quick heavy lifting at your apartment, listen to some gangsta shit in the ride, and then have a few brews – you’re probably going to stick your dick into the 1st chick that screens well, but not the hottest chick at the venue.

    So you gotta ask yourself, is the chick with the 4.5 face and the Double D’s gonna be worth it in the morning? Especially if one of your prospects sees you and Buttaface have a make out session in a dark corner of the bar? (True story holmes)

    GWM makes you honest about what you will fuck. And honesty is never pretty. It’s kinda like the old wives tale, fat chicks suck better dick, and ugly chicks fuck better (both true by the way) – because if they don’t excel, you won’t stick around.

    But if they do excel, that euphoria of great sex can have you handcuffing some Shrek looking chick @ the mall on a Sunday afternoon.

    This shit has happened to me! (several times, much more than I’d like to admit) I was running through chicks in Dallas. Within a small social circle I had a nice skinny chick easy on the eyes that I could have gotten, but the not so attractive chick was DTF. The sex was fantastic with the 5, but my ego wasn’t satisfied. The sex might have been awesome with the 7-8 – I would never know, because the chick who maxed out the leg press machine was a god damned champ in bed. I still think about fucking the ugmo, but I shudder at the idea of having her on the other side of the table @ brunch and running into people I know.

    You may miss out on a better notch if you let your dick do all of the thinking for you.

    WIA”

    *https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-20010-post-355864.html#pid355864*

    Chris at GLL did this, with video… again it’s inconsistent.

    Teevster… he’s circa 2007…

    Todd Valentine = oh yeah he was at Project Hollywood with Mystery, along with Tyler, Papa and Jeffy…

    Bachuus and NLP? – Ross Jeffries in the 1990s [his first pick up book was out in 1992 http://www.maerivoet.org/website/links/miscellaneous/speed-seduction-book/resources/speed-seduction-book.pdf ]

    Sedfast being a new discovery to J? lol Sedfast predates browsers…

  44. As to this

    What the guys I recommended have done is taken the good from Mystery Method (preselection, lock in, group theory) and improved upon on it (the way you Demonstrate Higher Value…not via telling cringy made up “hey so check this out” stories) and added some of their own (opening with sexual state while matching her current state – Gunwitch (Mystery Method was against girls sensing your sexual agenda from the open), sex talk – Teevster (Mystery was against talking about sex during the seduction and never did in his interactions. but we’ve found, doing so, moves the seduction faster, as it increases sexual tension/arousal), and throwing away the bad/outdated concepts (7 hour rule, peacocking (the way the old school PUAs talked about it), freeze outs) from MM due to the rapid changes in the environment (post-tinder “eat, pray, love” open hypergamy culture that really started to take hold right around 2013-14).

    Mystery has DHV as more than “check this out” stories, and includes posture, delivery, actions, etc…
    Mystery was for calibration and expressing intent at the appropriate time in the pickup, recognizing it could be slow OR fast… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy0n0amcT-Y
    Sex talk… lol One of Mysteries main DHV stories [A1] was his “stripper GF blowing him” while driving her Camaro…
    7 Hour rule was always a guide “on average”… TEST – you bang a girl in 30 minutes… would you have a stronger connection to her if you took 2 hours? 3 hours? etc… Mystery was not trying for FAST he was trying for SOLID and consistent with the girls YOU choose.
    Peacocking – Peacocking =/ Goggles and Hats… Mystery starting peacocking in glam rocker Hollywood clubs and lounges, where you had to up the level to stand out… Here is a peacock report

    ” I get opened by this guy guessing what bank I work for. I shake my head no. Then he goes on to continue guessing banks. Guess I’m dressed like how bankers dress when they go out lol.

    Then she points out how I’m dressed and says “well your not dressed like this is your scene either!” I’m like “yeah I know!” “

    Blax

    “I basically do the exact same shit that I have done since 1974”

    Because you internalized game at a young age….you didn’t need PUA/MM/RSD blah blah…..(((I)) DID because I was clueless/socially retarded…..like

    Guys like J will never get over the fact that other guys were regular doing “golden hour” pulls of girls who were out drinking and making out with dudes when they were in their dorms wacking off for years…

    J

    .he’s also the guy that’s failed to bang a 40 year old woman with 2 kids. in two separate occasions. Read his latest FR.

    Heh, By this logic, if you did not pull AT THIS EXACT MOMENT, you don’t matter…

    Why compare though? [FWIW she’s 37… lol] Anyhow, go do daygame or pull before 8PM in a city in the US you never been to, on a weekday.. disqualify yourself… wear a ring, tell the girls you’re married and have two little kids…. report back…

  45. Rollo, rather than emphasizing your commitment to Truth, since postmodernism is still dominant, you might emphasize instead that you are only analyzing what your eyes see.

  46. @Sentient

    “All of these guys have been around since well before 2013… lol”

    so?

    “Gunwitch? Uh.. been on boards since before The Game (in which he was mentioned)… His method? Circa 2004…”

    “[btw Gunwitch is 5’7″ and looks like this”

    when Gunwitch was running around with his screening method in the early 2000s he looked like this:

    https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000353154375-i0e6fm-t500x500.jpg

    The method he uses today (and the one I’m referring to) is Seduction MMA. Which came out in 2013. Here is an overview of his method:

    https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/general/12653-can-someone-explain-in-detail-how-attraction-is-created?p=189832#post189832

    “but I shudder at the idea of having her on the other side of the table @ brunch and running into people I know”.

    I’ve never had this thought. (at least today I don’t. back in my rookie year of 15′ and 16′ maybe there were a few girls I wouldn’t want people I know I was banging because I wanted to be perceived as this cool player that pulls beautiful women. (none of them were fat or hideous btw. Just that they weren’t something to brag about).

    “Teevster… he’s circa 2007…”

    When Teevster showed up in the seduction community around 2007, he was 14 years old. He shared his sex prizing material with the community around 2010. This was against MM at the time. As Kant said yesterday, Gun’s 2013 material and Teevster’s sex talk were the 2 biggest innovations of the last decade.

    “Todd Valentine = oh yeah he was at Project Hollywood with Mystery”

    And he’s shared his latest up to date material in The System (ya know….that thing I recommended to @youngmaster upthread?). Threw out all the stuff that didn’t work back then, explains why in extensive detail, and what does work.

    Example:

    “Bachuus and NLP? – Ross Jeffries in the 1990s”

    He learned from Dave Riker (2005) not Jeffries. yes embedded commands, trance words, weasel phrases and the like are nothing new. But what he has done is improved upon the early NLP material. That’s what innovators do. His latest report:

    https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/action-reports/333921-lights-camera-seduction

  47. J

    Just more of the same “distinction without a difference” stuff… repackaging core early PUA methods to generate new income streams…

    Also attraction DOESN’T EXIST. At a neurological level, there is no such quantifiable thing as attraction. We will get in to the hard science of this later. Again there is no neurological phantom called attraction. There is decision making processes to either fuck, or not fuck you, that is based on 3 components:

    Sexual arousal.

    Social frame.

    &

    Emotional stimulation

    lol . This is different from Attraction – Comfort – Seduction huh? Errr…. emotional stimulation… hmmm smells like “attraction” material… Social frame? maybe comfort…? eee gads! sexual arousal so different from Seduction.

    Yeah. I see…. lol

    Call a banana an orange, will still taste like a banana.

  48. This year with tail fins from a V2 and a dozen Ventiports.

    Next year, tits on a squid (a useless attracter added to an otherwise repulsive product. Meme courtesy of George Lucas).

  49. My doods…. Fuck all that BS scripted routines and ghey DHV stories… The community has discovered….

    wait for it…

    GAMBITS!

    http://witch60.com/gambits/

    Audio 1 Intro

    What you’ll be learning and its structure.
    This material only includes what worked in extensive testing.
    All short and fast, and quick to the new material….

    Audio 2 Hooks: ( Time 1:06.00)

    Hook maker structure. Make your own hooks easily.
    Extra hooks techniques. New hook stuff since my Seduction MMA.
    hook to the move/venue shift extras. New post hook stuff since Seduction MMA.
    Then you learn specific verbal topics and wordings, as I act them out for you….

    1. Suitcase Pimp: Hook a sex worker or fitness chick by demonstrating that you have insight and wisdom in to how to manage her.
    2. Powerball: Show domain over the way she thinks and experiences things.
    3. The artist: Describe her reality to hook.
    4. Brother Louie: A pre-hook universal frame, I like for post 30 aged women.
    5. City game: A standard hook with a psychic twist.
    6. Infamous: A hook with a transition to sexual arousal gambit.
    7. The sixth day: A standard hook with the ability to transition into sexual arousal.
    8. Vaccum trance out: Super innocuous hook to show understanding of how she thinks.
    9. What are you!: Easy simple hook to flirt when you can’t fully game, are with family or business partners etc
    10. Text trance: Get her wanting to see you face to face with a text game.
    11. The teacher: Hook to a lead in of teaching her a system from pickup game. Great authority frame, highly entertaining.
    12. The guru: A Reverse sexual state induction. You make her seduce you without realizing she is doing it. NOT too good to be true! This works for women and men by the way.
    13. Significant stories: Make instant friends with women or men, with an option to hook easier after.

    I’m sure none of these click off the Attraction Switches… [duckface]

  50. “… GAMBITS!”

    Driving around in some crappy old piece of shit (last year’s top model) with Venitports? Don’t do it! You’ll never get laid that way. Today’s kewl swingers won’t be seen without . . . Portivents!

  51. foxguy
    I was starting to wonder how far down the rabbit hole you were going to go on the hustle side of the red pill.

    Not everyone lives on the web. There’s plenty of men who don’t know what they don’t know, and events such as 21 are a way to reach them. It’s not necessarily a hustle, even if there are speakers who obviously are hustling.

    Like it or not, there is something of a Red Queen style race going on. The SJW’s at Big Tech are shutting down dissent as fast as they can, while dissenters are running in different directions to stay viable. The Red PIll / Glasses just happens to be a big ThoughtCrime to equalist-equalism-blank-slate SJW’s, so anything legit that gets more men to see clearly is not just a good thing, it’s a badly needed thing.

    As I stated before, it’s a real good idea to put a stake in the ground in Eastern Europe. Poland is a good choice, possibly the best given its history. Hungary would be a close second, but it is more difficult in some ways.

    Look in the history books, for 50 years the US and other countries ran large AM short-wave radio stations beaming shows into Eastern Europe “behind the iron curtain”. It’s not impossible that in the next 15 years dissidents will be heading to the former Warsaw Pact countries in order to continue speaking the truth, and they’ll be sending it back to the West.

    “Radio Free Europe” – the irony.

  52. @A D

    Anyone who self-describes as a “public intellectual” in a serious, non-ironic fashion should be automatically suspected of being a charlatan.

  53. Objective truth should be everyone’s goal, and I agree that an exclusive focus on the positive distorts it. Ignoring the negative doesn’t alter reality; but does limit your ability to understand it, and so too your ability to successfully deal with it. Emotions are real, and need to be accounted for and understood – but they are not tools of cognition. At best your emotions can guide you towards a possible truth, which you can then establish properly by rational means. At worst however, and increasingly in our culture of ‘feels before reals’, they can push you away from or distort the truth.

    It’s not valid to say “true objectivism” is not possible, therefore why try and establish objective truth – any more than its valid to say perfection is not possible, therefore why try to do better.

    Ayn Rand’s philosophy of Objectivism (with a big O) doesn’t delve into evolutionary psychology in the way Rollo does, but provides the rock solid philosophical foundation to what Rollo is articulating here. Funnily enough she was a woman, but an atypical one (in the same way Margaret Thatcher was).

  54. “,,,,,,the fact that you had to come to the truth by way of reason rather than emotion will make it negative.
    If you used your head instead of your heart to figure something out, in Girl-World, at best it’s bad form. At worst, you’re a negative pessimists or a cynic.”

    “Why are you such a geek?’
    “you are a nerd”
    “All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy”
    “Yea…but that’s so cold”
    “Do you ever have any fun?”
    “Girls just wanna have fun,,,,”
    “Pappa don’t preach”
    “OMG! OMG! OMG!… like you’re such a dork”
    “Those tech guys….”
    “That “”THING””….”
    “Those bike guys…”
    “That singer guy…”
    “What’s that guitar guys name?…”
    “Those worker guys…”
    “Those muscle guys…”
    “Those gun guys…”
    “Those_____guys…”

    Just fill in the blank with whatever shallow description most loosely associates “a guy” or “guys” with whatever male is being gossiped about and simultaneously disassociated from humanness. No man is real. Men collectively are an inanimate pool from which to pick a mark for security or seed. It is the ultimate in objectification by a process devoid of objectivity. An oxymoron of sorts, a paradox, an irony that appears on the surface as an ambiguity. Her mind is her theater and she is the audience. The audience craves emotionality. The audience comes to the theater to experience emotionality. The audience does not come to the theater for answers. The audience does not come to the theater to create. It comes to be entertained. When the entertainment is not what she expected, she leaves. She is her own theatrical production executive, she is also her own audience. She knows nothing else because she is incapable of knowing anything else. Her mind is incapable of anything else. Her brain possesses four hundred million fewer neurons than the male brain. Small minds talk about people. Mediocre minds discuss things. Great minds contemplate ideas. In her theater “men” are exclusively “people” associated with “things”. Ideas aren’t even a concept. Ideas cannot exist in theaters because they are unrelatable. This is why absolutely no woman is capable of deriving thoughts like the universal law of gravitation, the theory of relativity, virtually every single invention, or even a contract of effective fair governance. No woman ever did any such thing and it is because women are utterly incapable, not because men prevented them from doing it. Women should stick with what they are capable of people-thingy-emotionalism. Men should realize these facts and stop expecting women to be anything other than what women really are.

  55. As far as Ayn Rand goes, Atlas Shrugged is not exactly on my bucket list but The Fountainhead was a page-turner with a potent crab-bucket message — the man with a vision will have to fight off the mediocrities around him to see it alll through.

    As far as Objectivism itself, I once did a bio search on an interesting but obscure actress in an old 5-0 episode. Seems she was an Objectivist disciple who left her husband to run off with one of the group’s top gurus.

    Together they were quite comfy and affluent, until she drowned in their pool — supposedly due to a seizure brought on by sunlight glinting across the water’s surface.

  56. “Just fill in the blank with whatever shallow description most loosely associates “a guy” or “guys” with whatever male is being gossiped about and simultaneously disassociated from humanness. No man is real. Men collectively are an inanimate pool from which to pick a mark for security or seed. It is the ultimate in objectification by a process devoid of objectivity. An oxymoron of sorts, a paradox, an irony that appears on the surface as an ambiguity. Her mind is her theater and she is the audience. The audience craves emotionality. The audience comes to the theater to experience emotionality. The audience does not come to the theater for answers. The audience does not come to the theater to create. It comes to be entertained. When the entertainment is not what she expected, she leaves. She is her own theatrical production executive, she is also her own audience. She knows nothing else because she is incapable of knowing anything else. Her mind is incapable of anything else. Her brain possesses four hundred million fewer neurons than the male brain. Small minds talk about people. Mediocre minds discuss things. Great minds contemplate ideas. In her theater “men” are exclusively “people” associated with “things”. Ideas aren’t even a concept. Ideas cannot exist in theaters because they are unrelatable. This is why absolutely no woman is capable of deriving thoughts like the universal law of gravitation, the theory of relativity, virtually every single invention, or even a contract of effective fair governance. No woman ever did any such thing and it is because women are utterly incapable, not because men prevented them from doing it. Women should stick with what they are capable of people-thingy-emotionalism. Men should realize these facts and stop expecting women to be anything other than what women really are.”

    This^^^^ right here….I disagree with.

    Neurons huh? So why do women manage to give men full blown hissy fits at times? Cause them to cease breathing? Make them do their bidding for a mere promise of time inside an orifice?

    Why is that?

    As for the other part, it’s not about ” them “, and what you say is only true if you make it all about them inside your own head. Put those extra 400 million neurons to work in your favor. Otherwise all of your ” knowledge ” about universal law of gravitation, or theories of relativity ” will never matter if The One can have you bending to her will. Gravitational laws or women fucking up your program?

    Sure, some females will only associate you with ” guy “, and lump you into a category with billions of other ” guys “. Men never, ever do such a thing *snark off *. But if you live your life as a lumpable person, then of course, you deserve to be lumped.

    Cold, hard facts right there.

    Equalism fails.

  57. @Sentient There is so much free material online that “products” and gimmicks like this aren’t necessary. That said, I did buy Krauser’s books: Day Game Mastery and his second which I found to be hugely helpful because they were a step-by-step break down.

    What’s interesting is that the basic structures work and deviating from them can destroy your pick up if you’re not experienced enough to know what you’re doing.

    Now I’ve ploughed through at least 120 girls in the last 7 years and that has made me much more comfortable around women to understand the structure without having to resort to routines. In that sense I’m more “natural” but in fact it isn’t “natural” at all, I had to learn it.

    When I see my hopeless “Friend” cockbloking me, blowing up sets and not knowing how to read social cues I understand how “products” like this would be attractive to social losers.

  58. Wala

    Sniffle…you brought a tear to my eye. The left one to be precise.

    “Now I’ve ploughed through at least 120 girls in the last 7 years and that has made me much more comfortable around women to understand the structure without having to resort to routines. In that sense I’m more “natural” but in fact it isn’t “natural” at all, I had to learn it.”

    A truth stronger than universal gravity.

    There’s no such thing as ” a natural “. As I’ve said before, all men are born the same, shitting and crying. Everything has to be learned, or we’d still just be shitting and crying. A man has the choice in what he learns, and how adept at that thing he wants to be. Sooner is better than later, but all are capable – ” IF “.

  59. ” . . . all men are born the same, shitting and crying.”

    You have to learn to shit and cry. The reflexes are innate, but you don’t know how to work them until you’ve had a few goes (as it were).

    You not only had to learn to wiggle your fingers, but you had to learn that they were your fingers to wiggle in the first place. So much is learned that it can give the illusion of being born a blank slate.

  60. “Everything has to be learned”

    No shit.

    @youngmaster asked for game resources. I pointed him to the best most up to date shit (don’t want him reading outdated shit….like how many lay reports are currently in the field reports section by mystery method practioners?) to learn to become a natural.

    Saul Tee (author of one of the resources I shared) on becoming a natural:

    “what feels natural’ will actually change over time as you become more technically skilled socially and aware of the underlying dynamics governing the direction of an interaction. What your intuition tells you is natural will change to become the highest probability behavior of achieving a certain outcome. Then your ‘natural’ and ‘honest’ behavior also becomes the most optimal one when it comes to attracting women. Without having to think much about it or exerting any mental energy”

  61. @walawala

    Hey, I’m sorry. But aren’t you a tall white DJ, who bangs mostly Chinese girls? lol

    Just thought the studio audience should know that before they go rushing out to buy Krauser’s books.

  62. “what feels natural’ will actually change over time as you become more technically skilled socially and aware of the underlying dynamics governing the direction of an interaction. What your intuition tells you is natural will change to become the highest probability behavior of achieving a certain outcome. Then your ‘natural’ and ‘honest’ behavior also becomes the most optimal one when it comes to attracting women. Without having to think much about it or exerting any mental energy”

    Lol, no no no no no nooooo.

    it ain’t technical. That’s what stands in your way.

    Ever train in any kind of physical combat? You start out with technique, but that’s not what prevents you from being put on your back. Oil painting? Wood carving? Playing the guitar/instruments? Anything artistic?

    You ever ” smelled ” a coming rainstorm?

    Probability? Really?

    That quote above starts wrong as far as instructing goes, but it ends correctly – ” …your ‘natural’ and ‘honest’ behavior also becomes the most optimal one when it comes to attracting women. Without having to think much about it or exerting any mental energy”. Right, but being ” technical ” blunts the ability to develop true natural abilities. There’s a distinct difference.

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH1GFaw09hk&w=1280&h=720%5D

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJMwBwFj5nQ&w=1280&h=720%5D

    At some point ( hopefully sooner than later ) a guy MUST let go of being instructed step by step on the same concepts/actions and he’s got to develop superior foresight, understanding and intuition. There will be nothing technical about that, and you will probably discard the technicalities altogether. Wasting years and years and years looking for more instruction means you will forever be the student and never the Master.

  63. So I haven’t gone anywhere, I’m still digesting shit tons of game content. I’ve been following the thread in case anyone was wondering. I’m an intelligent guy who is cautious, but thinks critically and is confident enough (my major problem is really communicating value, and also being a lone wolf; I find most people extremely dull, so I don’t develop social circles much).

    That aside, I understand there’s an argument going on here, and as a newcomer I obviously can’t weigh in, nor can any one person definitively tell me the other person is wrong, because I’m naturally skeptical. However, men have their own instincts and intuitions, women don’t have a monopoly on that, and right now my gut is just telling me there’s something off about J. It’s just ringing warning bells. Maybe he’s a fraud. Maybe he’s just a stupidly abrasive troglodyte absorbed in his bubble. Maybe he’s a gamma male who’s deluded himself into thinking he’s alpha. I don’t know. I know he’s still being genuine in a large chunk of what he says, if not all of it, but I just absolutely cannot shake the impression there is something wrong with this picture.

    And it isn’t even about the lay reports. I don’t even care if they’re all totally legit and accurate reports of real results. It’s simply that my gut is telling me this guy does not seem trustworthy, albeit I do agree that game has evolved since MM’s day (and I’m preferable to Krauser for that, and I also understand MM wasn’t really about game).

  64. EDITOR’S NOTE: This could have been my first TRM Field Report, but due to the spotty results I’ll just cram it in here near the rest of the ongoing Mystery Method discussion…

    Having just read the Mystery Meat book thanks to Sentient’s link, I quickly saw a chance to put the wheels in motion — in one of my small town’s hottest venues, the funeral home parking lot.

    Out for a stroll with my friendly, chick-magnet dog, I spied four non-descript ladies standing near their car and admiring me from afar. OK, admiring the dog.

    Observing the MM’s crucial Three-Second Rule, man and dog strode smoothly over to “open the set.” Before I could even mention my Fake Time Constraint, three of the gals willingly began bantering with me and playing with the dog. With their help I first ignored and then suavely “negged” my “target” — raven-tressed gal number four, the only one of the group who could maybe scrape together a 5-plus SMV on a good day.

    The game was afoot — until damnit I realized I’d walked out the door without a quirky hat or drugstore envelope filled with snapshots of me rock-climbing, sky-diving or pointing to the bear turds at my rugged Tibetan campsite.

    I thus had no way to “lock her in,” or is it “lock her up.” I did have the dog leash, so maybe I could just tie her up. But all hopes were dashed when the bespectacled beauty simpered, “I love dogs, but I’m allergic” — the cold-shower equivalent of “I already have a boyfriend.” So I was unable to “move” her, “bounce” her or hell just bodily push her, Elaine-from-Seinfeld-style, into the Comfort Phase.

    As we stood chatting in the funeral home lot, the doors of their car were invitingly open, and it struck me that a true MM PUA would jump into the SUV ASAP and just keep talking (“I gotta go but hey, who died?” I knew a guy once who died. Hey, let me show you something — first write down the names of 10 people you know who’ve died …”). But I’ve gone this far with no arrest record and hope to keep it that way.

    So if you see a guy walking a dog while “peacocking” a pirate hat or Shriner’s fez, or screw it all maybe just walking a peacock, that’ll be me, looking to open MM Set Number Two.

  65. @Hardcore
    I was a 42-year-old with two children and I had already been divorced twice.

    I just stopped reading there…

  66. Wala

    heh… let’s be clear if you didn’t follow the “witch60” link, that was from the touted “Gunwitch”, as an ironic post… NOT an endorsement… lol

    OBIT

    three of the gals willingly began bantering with me and playing with the dog

    Come on man, that was A2, you should know that now!!! Need to reread chapter 7 on A3…

    +1 on rocking out with a peacock though… Baller move.

    Youngmaster – Great you seem intelligent and thoughtful. go forward and prosper IN THE FIELD. Take the sources and advice and go test them. Then report those results for breakdowns and fine tuning. The NEWB SOURCES were from Yareally – lauded on boards far and wide as the best game technician who ever gamed (who never posted a FR btw, maybe one that I can recall) – not me… Take that for what it is worth.

    Field is King!

    Good luck

  67. Youngmaster –

    Start with a little bio, how old, where you live generally, race etc. and experience with women to get better advice.

    On being a lone wolf… Do NOT sweat this, especially starting out. Unless you have the fortune of hooking up with a seasoned guy who ALSO understand game in detail [crucial – you do not want “Just be confident bro!” or “wear that red shirt man!” advice], you are better off on your own.

    You get to test YOUR skill and YOUR ideas. Most wings straight up suck. They aren’t real wings even, they are lonely unsure scared guys playing at PUA, and they WILL jump on the first whiff of pussy they get, throwing you under the bus straight off… lol

    It’s a powerful frame to be in, when you are alone and girls try that “you’re here by yurself OMG!!!” or “You don’t have any friends!”… It’s great to provoke shit tests you have answers to and will easily pass…

    The Game is played

    and if you want a FR lol, here is the first Game aware pu

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/friendzoning-girls-as-a-pickup-strategy/#comment-677814

  68. “Take the sources and advice and go test them. Then report those results for breakdowns and fine tuning”

    +1

  69. “But the objective truth would make me look like a charlatan if I tried to convince a man that marriage was at all a good idea in its present state.”

    this is a core problem that must be confronted before further growth is possible

    “do as i say, not as i do” is no longer the end of the conversation

    “Don’t get married” is bs and disregards the intrinsic reward systems of lots and lots of men

    it must become, “if in your clear headed deliberation you desire to take a bride, here is how to make sure you give yourself the best chance of success”

    “I don’t want to lead men astray by in anyway implying that what I have is possible for them. And I’ve had men tell me that, “I want what you have.””

    if men want what another man has

    they had better be willing to risk everything that man has risked

    most are not

    i would absolutely consider marriage in 2019

    because my frame is stronger than the state’s when it comes to one or two or three individual females

    i cannot beat feminism

    but i can game and mindfuck a few girls into convincing themselves they need to be my fucktoys because it’s in their best interest

    and anyone who thinks Rollo is negative can’t fucking read

  70. “because my frame is stronger than the state’s when it comes to one or two or three individual females . . .
    i cannot beat feminism”

    Feminism acts as free roaming agent of the state. Brad Pitt was investigated for child abuse based on an anonymous phone call, presumably by an airport worker. You can’t game people you don’t even know exist.

    See also Eh Intellect’s bar incident leading to a DUI, promulgated by complete strangers.

  71. Returning to Rollo’s OP

    One of the founders of Facebook believes it is too big and should be broken up.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/09/opinion/sunday/chris-hughes-facebook-zuckerberg.html

    Certainly it is easier to deplatform someone over hurt feelze when one company controls the Momworld of Facebook and the younger world of Instagram and Whatsapp, for example.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Facebook

    If such a breakup occurs it won’t be soon.

  72. j,

    You question the veracity of my experiences. That’s ok.

    Question for you: Why? What do I gain from deceit?

    What you gain here is clear: Your frame and values are eccentric, or off-center, from your frame. Your appearance of flawless success with women, your overwrought science-y approach to sex, (something IMO needs little explanation, generally) are tells of weakness.

    Weak men are defensive, recriminating, demand respect and recognition. Generally these men aren’t successful with women in any capacity. Weak here, weak everywhere.

    The above is subcommunicated in your posts. That’s why I question your veracity.

    kfg…I could have handled that better, I admit. Then again, no matter, it brought me to where I’m today. Eyes wide open, calmer, decisive, better marriage, better friends, kinder, more charitable, richer in fact and spirit.

    Thanks for the memories!

  73. Since we’ve touched on Mystery and his method… for those with continued interest… Check out this series of videos, there are three. I’ll post the others on the FR page [before they get memory-holed like much pua stuff these days].

    Worth a watch to have Mystery convey his personality along with some nuances and big picture stuff…

    [starts about 13 minutes in]

    The goal is NOT to copy him or what he is saying – the goal is to understand the structure, the game, the environment and adapt your personality to that…

    Enjoy!

  74. @Eh Intellect:

    “kfg…I could have handled that better, I admit.”

    Yes, and at the very least have avoided the DUI, but the incident is still illustrative.

  75. Sentient: I’m 31, just turned it last month. 6 foot 1.5 inch tall white man living in Northeast USA. I’m well spoken, articulate most of the time, have no trouble speaking to people including girls (although it depends heavily on my mood and the scene), I’m an intelligent guy with plenty of cynicism and skepticism. I have quick wit, and I know how to morph offhanded remarks about whatever into a joke about sexual innuendo, which I do all the time at parties (again, this ability varies depending on various circumstances). I’ve had some success on my own, brought back a strip club masseuse girl to my place when I was in Florida for example, and I was involved with a girl I met for a couple years down there (with which I made a number of mistakes, one of them being scarcity mentality at the time).

    I definitely have not been bluepilled for the past several years, but not fully redpilled either; I understood how to avoid beta behavior and I always held myself above random girls, especially if they were hot; this was an instinct I simply had since I was a kid. They’re always getting compliments and getting chased, and I hated doing either of those. Point is, I just didn’t understand the psychology behind most of this stuff, but upon fully digesting redpill material on intersexual dynamics I’ve discovered that most of the behavior that should be expressed has already been internalized. As such, I have very little apprehension about PUA or getting infield to test or calibrate, because I know for damn certain that if I keep at this, it is absolutely the case that I will get results. I also understand that this is a much longer road than most people believe, and I’m fine with that.

    I knew about PUA and redpill on the sexes ages ago, I simply didn’t care about it because I had the impression of PUA being outright sleazy manipulation to bed girls like some used car salesman rat. Now, of course, I understand this is a completely different world entirely, but when I first heard about it, I wrote it off as an invalid path of getting what I truly wanted: the male fantasy of idealized, romanticized love. As such, the path that was open to me ten years ago was never taken because I believed the path was something it wasn’t.

    In any case, my major issue is DHV and communicating that. When I mentioned my sigma male aptitude of being a lone wolf, I meant that not as a roadblock to helping me game infield or that I needed wingmen, but that I don’t readily have available things easily used to demonstrate DHV with images, like pictures of large groups of friends or girls around, etc. I also hate social media, so I don’t do the gay IG shit, and although I had a FB account since the very very early days of its existence, I stopped using it years ago; again, because social media is goddamn cancer and nobody should use it. That’s another topic. Anyway, another major hurdle is breaking the ice and finding something to talk about. I can sit and talk for days about any topic that’s controversial, or debatable, or super gray; anything deep and philosophical, I can thread needles with words with zero effort. But like I said, most people are just so dull and superficial and we have nothing in common; I don’t give a fuck about the last episode of Propaganda TV or the last match of Sportsball. I’ve come to the conclusion most girls don’t genuinely think about anything, they just exist and float through life, they rarely have deep internal argumentation about anything beyond rationalizing their instincts. Point being, I need some way to ENGAGE them, and I need to properly communicate my interest in them and pick up on their IOIs, rather than getting bogged down in the thirty minute convo to nowhere.

    So yeah, I became “redpilled” on a different subject years ago (won’t get into that of course, and I understand how prickly people get at the term being appropriated as a descriptor for anything other than ISD), and came across this sort of material in my leanings within that subject, but never fully inspected it, just dismissed it on superficial assessment alone. My fucking mistake; I could have forged this information into a veritable weapon in my time down in Florida. Massive missed opportunity. Could be worse though, no use dwelling on the past, and although 31 is still older than I’d like I know I still have a good number of years left to bang this out.

  76. “Feminism acts as free roaming agent of the state. Brad Pitt was investigated for child abuse based on an anonymous phone call, presumably by an airport worker. You can’t game people you don’t even know exist.”

    the reaper is a free roaming agent as well and once a man has faced both, neither is scary in the sense that neither can torture a man forever

    what is really to be feared in marriage?

    cuckolding – cheap dna test kits solve this from a fact perspective. dealing with the state is another issue, but a man can know whether a kid is his or not beyond a reasonable doubt. this allows him to disregard this deeply rooted fear of not knowing paternity
    the state – either have lots of assets so you can hire the best lawyers, or have none on paper so she can’t get shit. if you like confrontation, and fucking people up, the legal system is super fun. and if you’re worried about being zeroed out you probably shouldn’t play. abundance mindset allows a man to disregard the fear of being zeroed out and legal realities ensure that child and spousal support do not go on forever
    the sisterhood – divorce is contagious. social media is filled with cunts. nothing a man can do about it except lead the kind of life where his wife would rather be following him than some thot on her screen. true we can’t game people we don’t know exist, but i don’t care. i deal with motherfuckers as they present themselves and do my best to avoid situations with limited upside
    infidelity – bitches be cheating. so what. is that scarier than death? no. torture? no. prison? no. fuck her good and it’s hardly ever a problem. and if it becomes one… next.
    abuse – unless you’re AF, she will work you like a horse. solution? be AF. and do the abusing instead. she wants to be used and abused by a guy who is out of her league. it’s so easy to give them what they want. just flip the script and take take take
    limiting sexual options – lol no man can agree to that and no reasonable woman would expect him to

    there are things to fear and things to consider…

    i don’t see anything to genuinely FEAR from marriage in 2019

    there are many things to consider and weigh, but really nothing to fear

    and i think it’s really hard for a happily married man to tell younger men not to get married

    Rollo could help men not only take marriage back, but make it even more beneficial to men than it ever has been before

  77. Youngmaster

    Good, good, you should do well. What do you do for work?

    I always held myself above random girls, especially if they were hot; this was an instinct I simply had since I was a kid. They’re always getting compliments and getting chased, and I hated doing either of those.

    Same here… Never wanted to give away the power… a shorthand code for Game – Never do what is expected, when it is expected. That will cover a lot of gaps…

    You can DHV without IG etc. I always game solo, on business trips, and I’m married. So I don’t get too personal. Focus on your body language more, strong eye contact, being non-reactive etc. When you do have some story, just remember to seed some of the attraction triggers in it. Also how you convey your topic is important and a DHV in itself… Just being aware of the IOI/IOD loop, the structure of A-C-S will take you far and help you avoid the convo to nowhere.

    I big part of convo to nowhere is typically you aren’t sexualizing and aren’t doing kino and calibrating off of it. Kino early and often…

  78. Youngmaster

    I’ve come to the conclusion most girls don’t genuinely think about anything, they just exist and float through life, they rarely have deep internal argumentation about anything beyond rationalizing their instincts.

    Yeah don’t think you are going to have deep meaningful convos… You might, be pleasantly surprised when you do. But girls are for sex and other pleasures… Have guy friends for these kind of convos. Don’t ask a cat to retrieve a ball…

    Point being, I need some way to ENGAGE them, and I need to properly communicate my interest in them and pick up on their IOIs,

    This will come with practice, in the field.

    So when you go to a bar, go up to the counter next to a girl. stand tall, place your hands on the bar, a little wider than shoulder width. Do not look at the girl at all. Place your order, look at the back bar, ignoring the girl still. get your drink. Have a sip. This gives her a chance to open you, which is a strong IOI… You are looking for the IOI’s right? Now if she doesn’t open you, keep your body facing forward have a sip and:

    “Ahhhh…. That is good. [glance at girl body straight – IOD] Not the best day to break up with your Russian girlfriend… [look for her IOI, interest in the story, if you get some interest “oh etc.” you can turn towards her [rewarding her with an ioi] and continue “Have you ever thrown a shoe at a guy? check this out [kino her arm]”

    [these are the opens to some routines I have]

    STRUCTURE

    Proceed from there. Good luck…

  79. Sentient: right now work is a problem. I was working in my state’s capital earlier this year and got into a car accident, and right now my main concern is replacing the car and obtaining a job/career that doesn’t pay shit. I have a dual BS in biology and environmental science, but due to various life circumstances my CV isn’t the greatest. Therefore, DHV would be a large hurdle for anything other than outright deception, and so getting right out their and working on game and calibration is going to need to sit on the back burner for the time being. I’m also staying with a family member at the moment, which also exacerbates things outside of insisting we go to her place.

    The life circumstances I mentioned also got in the way of my lifting (well, more to the point, my regimented calorie intake; I won’t go into details). Basically I studied various things about weightlifting and proper form, and while my knowledgebase now is probably a bit rusty, I have good comprehension of and experience in the subject; started digging deep into the concepts and proper executions back in 2012. So, my main line of goals right now is car, career, better living situation, and regaining the physical status I had five years ago. These are all interconnected and have higher priority than running game, so as much as I’d like to rush out their with all the unwarranted eagerness of a green FNG, I have enough experience to temper my expectations of reality.

  80. “what is really to be feared in marriage?”

    I can dodge folly without backing into fear, if I know what the ground rules are.

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