Raiders of the Lost Covenant

I hate to begin an essay with an apology, but I feel like one is in order this time. For the past year and a half I’ve been invested in writing my fourth book, The Rational Male – Religion. This required a degree of perseverance, dedication in research, feedback, interviews and general behind the scenes dialoging that I’ve never had to involve myself in before. As a result, I’m less able to devote myself to writing this blog as well or as regularly as I believe I should. For that I’m apologizing here for skipping a week more often than I should.

I’m enjoying every minute of the work I’m putting into the new book, but it is taxing. A criticism I always get is that my books are just re-edits of this blog’s essays, and “Why should anyone buy your books if they can get it all for free here?” Ironically, these are also the critics who berate me for selling out, or they assume pushing my Red Pill books is all I do for a living [insert eye-roll here].

Well, not this time. This time the book will be (almost) entirely fresh material and this takes time, effort and concentration. There will be some material from a handful of past essays, but about 85% of the book is new material.

This process began prior to my publishing Positive Masculinity in July of 2017. I knew then, while still writing my third book, I wanted to do a book on how the Red Pill awareness of intersexual dynamics intertwined with religions and religious mindsets for the series. I began to do some casual research in Spring of 2017 as an aside to the third book. This quickly snowballed into a part time job for me. Now, add this to my schedule with:

  • The Red Man Group
  • My own YouTube presence
  • A few regular live spots and interviews I do
  • Red Pill 101 I do with Pat Campbell every Sunday
  • The keynote talks I’ll be giving at three 21 Conventions in 2019
  • Producing a new liquor brand for my real job this year

Anyway, that’s my way of saying I feel bad for missing a week or two on this blog. The Rational Male will always be my comfortable place to come home to and I want to let you all know, just because I’m posting less in the comments doesn’t mean I don’t read every one. In fact, this is one of the only forums, among dozens, I make a point to keep up with consistently.

Covenant vs. Contractual Marriage

Since digging into the new book I’ve gotten in the habit of comparing notes with various religious personalities who I think might give me a better perspective into how aspects of the Red Pill dovetail into religion. Everyone from Jewish Rabbis to Greek Orthodox ministers (?), to the Muslim faithful, to Evangelical pastors have been on my discussion list for two years now. One notable of late was Dr. Everett Piper, the recently retired president (chancellor?) of Oklahoma Wesleyan University.

Dr. Piper has a regular segment on the Pat Campbell radio show that comes on a half hour before I go on with Pat every Friday morning at 9:05am EST. The link to all our archives is in the sidebar.

Listen to the full discussion here

Last Friday Dr. Piper and I had a discussion about the state of marriage today. I’m loathe to call it a proper “debate” because there’s a lot that he and I agree on with respect to the value of marriage for men and women – at least, the value of what marriage had in the past and should mean to men and women going forward. Marriage is always going to be a persistent hot button issue in the Manosphere. Depending on what your personal, moral and/or rational beliefs are, marriage is something to be actively avoided or something only to enter into with the most serious degree of vetting and caution. Today’s marriage is defined by the dangers it poses to men. Unfortunately, this caution is rarely a consideration for most Blue Pill conditioned, Beta men.

Another area that Dr. Piper and I (and the Manosphere) agree on is the ‘feels before reals‘ priority our feminine-primary social order has embedded in our social consciousness. Today, the “correct” way to address a decision is to lead with our emotions, but it’s exactly this ‘feelings first’ idea that leads men to disregard the life-damaging potential that modern marriage poses to them.

I took the pro-avoidance side of this discussion. And, as usual, I always have to qualify my doing so first; Yes, I’ll be married for 23 years in July. Yes, I’m still happily married to the same woman and have never been divorced, nor have I ever considered divorce. My marriage’s success is directly attributable to my Red Pill awareness and putting it into practice. Mrs. Tomassi and I are still very much in love, we’ve raised a gorgeous and smart daughter to adulthood, and I think my marriage is as close to most people’s ideal as can be.

And yes, I would still never remarry were I to find myself single tomorrow – I simply cannot endorse marriage, as it exists today, as a good idea for any young man. Remember, this is coming from a guy with a damn good marriage. As MGTOWs are fond of saying, endorsing marriage today is leading the lambs to slaughter. I agree. It is simply, statistically, the worst decision a man can make in his life at present, yet so many men want to believe they won’t be one of those statistics.

This confuses a lot of people. Fundamentally, I think the institution of monogamous marriage has been one of the bedrocks of success for western civilization. Marriage is a good idea; it’s how we execute it in the late 20th and 21st centuries that makes it one of the worst prospects imaginable for men. So, I’m technically not anti-marriage; I’m anti-never-saw-it-coming-Pollyana-how-could-she-do-this-to-me?-hypergamy’s-doesn’t-care marriage.

This was my position going in to this talk with Dr. Piper. Have a listen to the whole segment if you have the time, but what we distilled it down to is the idea of a Covenant Marriage vs. a Contractual Marriage. This was the premise used to describe the divide between marriage how it should be done – religiously, personally, devotionally, how it was done in the past – and the way marriage is now – the worst contractual liability a man can enter into. Needless to say a lot of qualifications followed this.

By my understanding a Covenant marriage presumes a mutual religious reverence and understanding of what is expected of a man and a woman before they enter into marriage. It is founded on the agreement of two individuals who believe they are better together than they are apart. On paper this sounds good, but it presupposes quite a bit – particularly on the part of that woman today. I’ll detail the reasons why in a bit, but I take the Covenant definition of marriage to mean that there’s a mutual understanding between the man and woman that they are marrying for love in accordance to what they believe is their religious and monogamous obligation. Fine. We’ve got a model for marriage that is set apart from the Contractual model.

The Contractual marriage is one based on mutual support and an insurance that this support will continue even if the marriage itself dissolves. MGTOWs liken this to a bad business contract that, were it not marriage, no right-thinking man would ever agree to sign off on.

Contractual marriage is the standard for today. Dr. Piper sees this model as the “what can I get from my partner marriage“, but you can decide for yourself if you listen to the discussion. I think this is a bit disingenuous since it implies that men’s only consideration for agreeing to what amounts to a bad business contract would in any way make sense due to a desire for getting what he can out of what’s already a bad deal. Why marry at all if what you’re taking away from it is nothing you can’t get outside of marriage without the risk?

Essentially, Contractual marriage is the marriage-divorce-support structure that men are wisely hesitant about today. Dalrock once noted that sometime after the Sexual Revolutionwe moved away from the marriage model of child rearing and into the child-support model of child rearing“, and I think the Contractual model of marriage becoming the default was an integral part of this.

If you’ve ever watched the documentary Divorce Incorporated you can see the machinations of the Contractual form of marriage at work. This is just a taste of some of the real world consequences that accompany Contractual marriage’s liabilities. However, I think going in – and with the emphasis on leading with our feelings – most men have idealistic, Covenant marriage, expectations for their marriages.

It sounds pretty good, right?

And for the premarital sex mindset it’s the only game in town if they want sexual access. So, it serves a purpose to convince oneself that a man’s spouse is necessarily on the same page as they are with respect to his idealistic concept of love (versus a woman’s opportunistic concept of love). This is where most Beta men get themselves into trouble. They presume their ‘bride‘ to be shares his mutual idea of love, and combined with a potent cocktail of dopamine and endorphins, he leads with his Emotional Process rather than his Rational Process.

Off the Books Marriage

While we also discussed the issue of Responsibility vs. Authority in marriage, what got me was his marching back the question about separating a ‘Covenant’ marriage from the ‘Contractual’ marriage. This is something I’ve discussed with MGTOWs occasionally. Would marriage work if you removed the state and any entitlement to the cash & prizes liabilities from the equation?

I brought this up because this “private ceremony”, off-the-books unofficial marriage is what saved my friend Anthony Johnson from losing his ass in his own divorce. He wasn’t wise enough to see through his ex’s deceits, but he was smart enough not to involve the state in his marriage.

I was genuinely surprised to hear Dr. Piper disagree with the idea of separating the marriage models we’d discussed at the time, but to have him state that he wasn’t willing to somehow give up on the heroic fight to reform the ‘Contractual’ marriage was, in hindsight, kind of disingenuous. In both instances, with respect to headship and authority, and the reluctance to let go of the contractual definition of marriage (especially after making such an impassioned case for a covenant marriage) I can only come to the conclusion that Dr. Piper’s position on marriage is influenced by the feminist undercurrent prevalent in the church today – and without his really realizing it too.

Once again the fiscal considerations of not offending women’s (feminist influenced) sensibilities comes to the fore in another religious leader. This has been a constant theme among the Pastors and church leaders I’ve been interviewing since I started the fourth book.

Churches are business franchises today and if you want to keep the tithe checks forthcoming in order to keep the lights on pastors and church leaders need to prioritize the sensibilities of the primary consumer in the western world – women. It’s gotten to the point now that church leaders have internalized that women’s eyes and ears will be judging their words minutely in sermons and public appearances to ensure their Pastor is on ‘team woman’. This is why opposing a separation of Covenant marriage vs. the Contractual is literally a ‘no brainer’ for these men. They don’t ever think about it any other way because they’ve already adopted the feminist zeitgeist that’s assimilated their churches. To endorse that separation is to deny women their potential for cash & prizes if a man displeases God by making them unhappy.

I think maybe I expected more from Dr. Piper. I was hoping to find some common ground, but I think he may be committed to a doctrine that panders to the Feminine Imperative without realizing it. When we got to the part about headship (Corinthians) he came right out the gate with pre-qualifying headship vs. being a domineering asshole. I’ve come to expect this from a female-primary church that deemphasizes male authority. In fact, it redefines that ‘authority’ as responsibility before you get to discuss any other aspect of what women might allow as “headship”.

It’s like a mental illness with these people. If a wife isn’t perfectly happy and beautiful it’s the husbands fault.

It’s a disgusting view of marriage which can only increase unhappiness for the average Christian couple because there’s no way to keep a woman happy all the time, and, age means women are going to get old. It’s part of life, and it is enough for a woman to age gracefully without these Pastors trying to brainwash men into thinking that any lack of beauty is their fault.

7817 dalrocks Blog

Imperfect Men Vet Imperfect Women for Imperfect Marriages

The “You should’ve vetted better” or “You should’ve married a ‘real’ Christian woman” excuses are something I encounter a LOT from Christian church leaders. Dr. Piper also used this one too. It’s really the Christian version of the Quality Woman dilemma.

As I’m working my way through my fourth book and on The Red Pill & Religion this is one cop out I get regularly. Apparently no ‘real’ Christian woman would ever initiate divorce and if men were only Godly and wise enough to discern from the outset of ‘courting’ that their “bride” wasn’t a fully devoted woman of Christ then it’s their fault for marrying her – or their fault for screwing up God’s perfect plan for his married life later in the marriage. This is ex post facto rationalization that reinforces moralistic beliefs, but also justifies the reaming you’re going to take in divorce court for not being wise and Godly.

It’s basically another play on the No True Scotsman logical fallacy. “They not ‘real’ Christians/Muslims/Jews/Krishnas/etc.” should be the subtitle for my new book, I’ve heard so many times.

Deus Vult

When it comes to debating church leaders I simply cannot win the “God says so” clause. This is another obstacle to discussing Red Pill ideas in a religious context. It’s an appeal to faith that is always the go-to response to issues I bring up that they have no real answer to. That, or they don’t want to answer for fear of offending the Feminine Imperative in the church today.

Contractual” marriage is an all-downside proposition for men today. I tried to make my best case for why men shun it in the discussion. Naturally, there’s a common impulse for Publicity Pastors to AMOG from the pulpit and shame men for avoiding marriage, but they can’t argue against the marriage stats and the life-destroying fallout of divorce for men. It’s all too verifiable. The marriage & divorce rates today are unignorable, so men deductively go with the pragmatic response and avoid marriage or go MGTOW.

All that means nothing to the faithful Christian mindset. “It doesn’t matter if contractual marriage is one of the worst decisions a man can make today – “God says you should marry.”

What about the incentive of cash & prizes women have in divorce?

Doesn’t matter, God said get married

So I can’t argue with the divine creator of the universe. God says jump, so you jump. That’s the absolutist-moralist win button for any rational argument to the contrary.

Alternative link to the interview is here

Discussion at Dalrock’s Blog

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Blaximus
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That’s a very odd way of viewing masculinity. The extreme, mentally questionable version – you can never have enough of anything. Masculinity might start out that way in youth, that raging fire almost uncontrollable, but with time and wisdom gained, a man sets his own agenda and measure. Things get put into clearer perspective.

Guess I’ll have to read the whole thing, but that quote is mostly inaccurate.

EhIntellect
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“The Red Queen principle, nature is ruthless, religion used to help fill this void.”

“that quote is mostly inaccurate.”

His take is this…when a man subjects himself to stuff, or a physical standard of value, or a natural standard of life and stops there, he obviates addressing his inherent value.

It’s this inherent value that is our basis of living. The deeper and wider a man’s center-of-gravity foundation the more formidable the life he can build.

Our visible lives are conditions, or a symptom, of something else. Address the something else or not, doesn’t remove the presence of it.

rugby11
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reproduction

“Doesn’t matter, God said get married”
Freewill and Evolution Ambition Life emergency’s and Children

Anonymous Reader
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@Foxguy A misquote / oversimplification of the Red Queen book. I strongly recommend that book partly because of its age. Some science has changed / improved in the last 25 years, but I’m not sure a book detailing differences between men and women as it does would have a chance of getting published by a major publisher in this wunnerful “woke” era. The majority of worker bees in publishing are girls, after all… Dunno how much of an example the Escobars are for much of anything beyond “There’s never enough ‘stuff'”. That’s not new, both Buddhism and Christianity have been… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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The only problem with masculinity is that people die.

kfg
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” . . . people die.”

People are prone to do that.

scribblerg
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Oooohh – lookie, @Blax and @Eh playing word games, twisting what I’ve said to take more cheep shots. Lol. In case they tricked you, be clear. That routine about marriage was with girls i was already fucking. The “conversation” was designed to put the onus back on them wrt how they looked at marriage. I’d set the high standard of “I’d never leave, no matter what and that’s what marriage is, can you make that commitment” and it left no wiggle room. Worked like a charm to teach me how entitled women are to divorce these days, how it forms… Read more »

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@Anonymous Reader

I’ve read the Red Queen and it’s sitting on my bookshelf right now, nature follows a “Might is Right” principle. Pablo followed that also, it’s amoral. This is not easy to digest but it is what it is, we are in constant competition whether we realize it or not.

Religion/Spirituality applies the moral layer on the stack. This Mark Manson guy is supposedly a “red pill” lick character for the masses, the programming/propaganda runs very very deep.

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Looks like religion kills a thread even faster than the usual Intellectual amoging that’s become so fucking boring on here.

I can remember when men on here came to learn and help each other before the comments became a turd flinging competition.

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foxguy

I’ve read the Red Queen and it’s sitting on my bookshelf right now, nature follows a “Might is Right” principle

You should read it again. Pay attention to the details.

HINT: How “mighty” is Toxoplamosis Gondii?

“Might is right” is 19th century emoting, not really thinking at all.

Anonymous Reader
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<>Religion/Spirituality applies the moral layer on the stack.

So? Did you actually read Rollo’s OP?

This Mark Manson guy is supposedly a “red pill” lick character for the masses, the programming/propaganda runs very very deep.

He certainly does want men to give him money, that’s clear.

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Playdontpay
Looks like religion kills a thread even faster than the usual Intellectual amoging that’s become so fucking boring on here.

The solution for comments you don’t like is … what?

I can remember when men on here came to learn and help each other before the comments became a turd flinging competition.

Irony.

HINT: Rollo’s OP is about helping certain categories of men to learn and then to assist each other. Your first comment on the thread? Boring, predictable village-atheist turd flinging.

Sad.

EhIntellect
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“She came to me and told me that, after being married to the other guy.”

Now ScribblerG claims “I listen to what my ex says, not what she does.”

NOW she’s an avatar of truth. Oh yes….nothing learned.

EhIntellect
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“Intellectual amoging”

Threatened much?

EhIntellect
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“Frivorce means divorce without cause such as abandonment, infidelity abuse, you effing hack.”

Does being a BP simp-douche husband count as abandonment? I’d say yes.

Playdontpay
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Anony mouse

Village-atheist lol Athiest should not even exist as a word not believing in an imaginary being in the Sky should be the default and shouldn’t require an adjective.

Your ilk on the other hand need to be sectioned under mental health laws for the protection of society, plenty of adjectives needed to describe you folk.

EhIntellect
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“imaginary being in the Sky”

Oh hell man! I thought he was my Jesus cracker. Well it’s time to bow down to a new boss, I guess.

Playdontplay….Who is this mysterious Sun-God of which you write and people just can’t talking about?

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Intellect guy

At least worshipping the sun would make more sense.

For one I can see it and that kinda helps the credibility along!

Also it kinda sustains all life on earth. Infinitely more understandable to worship the sun than the crap you believe in.

There have been around 3000 gods so far, but only yours actually exists, the others are all silly made up nonsense! But not yours, yours is real.

I have some “holy water” to sell if you are interested, it’s a lot like normal water but more expensive because of the production costs 😉

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Playdontpay Anony mouse That’s someone else. Village-atheist lol Yeah. You’re like the sandal-wearing longhaired aging beardo Boomer who shows up at town meeting just to complains about fixing the roof on the community center because some historic church is next door and might benefit and THERE IS NO GOD! NO! A boring rant nobody wants to hear, that won’t get anything fixed. Rollo’s topic is helping a certain group of men. You’d rather not help those men? Fine, then get out of the way. There’s a lot of other places you can argue your faith-based feelze, there’s mighty few where… Read more »

everybodyhatesscott
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The churches won’t marry you “under God” without the state involved. I’d be willing to get a Church wedding provided there is zero state involvement but that isn’t allowed.

j
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“the word “niggardly””
comment image

EhIntellect
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“but only yours actually exists, the others are all silly made up nonsense! But not yours, yours is real.”

Cool. Case settled. God bless!!!!!!!!!

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Evertybodyhatesscott The churches won’t marry you “under God” without the state involved. I’d be willing to get a Church wedding provided there is zero state involvement but that isn’t allowed. Yeah, that’s the core of that “Covenant marriage” idea in the OP. Create a formal, witnessed partnership relationship but without the Threatpoint of Ca$h & Prizes hanging over the head of one person. A storm wall against female unhaaaaaaapiness. There are apparently US states where something sorta kinda like this exists, but I do not believe they have been tested in any court-arena yet. In the mean time: create a… Read more »

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palmasailor
^^^ I doubt he’s got any sandals.. short hair too..

Just sayin

You’re not normally autistic. What’s up?

EhIntellect
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“You’re not normally autistic. What’s up?”

AR isn’t normally a snark. No wait he’s always a snark.

foxguy
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“The churches won’t marry you “under God” without the state involved” In terms of the control mechanism used to keep you in line, organized religion/church and the government are part of the same control layer , they both serve the same purpose, mass organized religion cannot exist without a governmental entity present. At some point given this is “The Rational Male”, emphasis on rational we have to admit to the fact that organized religion is a control entity, used to guide/control people and much less to do with the actual beliefs/theology. The red pill extends to all areas of life… Read more »

EhIntellect
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“There have been around 3000 gods so far, but only yours actually exists, the others are all silly made up nonsense! But not yours, yours is real.”

Awesome. Case closed. God bless!!!!!!!!

David Eagen
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It was fun playing with you. THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART.

Yollo Comanche
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The way I see the religion question is; Red Pill made me question who’s in charge of religion and why and it’s feminists. But It’s also queefs. Queefs are in charge of religion and it’s to use women to limit the free-will of men. They want men working to please mammy. Watch Shapiro put the bit in the mouth of all men like they need women to ride them. I have half the mind to go to one of these events of his and bring this question up and ask him a better question. “Isn’t giving women the power to… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Michael Foster is a pastor in South Carolina who has sorta kinda decided to take on the manosphere. This is a relevant tweet:

https://twitter.com/thisisfoster/status/1119765439633133569/photo/1

The letter is pretty typical of blue pill thinking. Notice the responses.
comment image

This is the kind of mindset that is common in churches, at least in the US. Using someone’s picture as a bookmark seems more like something for a high school girl to do.

Right here is why Rollo’s current project matters. This is what “traditional”, “conservative” church leaders look like. Pedestal-polishers.

Sentient
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Krauser speaking at 21Con Poland… https://krauserpua.com/2019/04/26/im-speaking-at-warsaw-21-convention/ Wait…. what? Haven’t you been slagging off The 21 Convention on this very blog? you say. Um… well… yes. Perhaps an explanation is in order. My primary issue with T21C was that it was purple pill. Speakers would espouse a fundamentally blue pill ideology wrapped up with a little red pill seasoning to make it seem edgy. I didn’t like that so much. Also, I thought the daygame guys featured weren’t credible (e.g. The Natural Lifestyles) and wasn’t shy about saying so. While I took my eye off the ball, T21C underwent changes. The… Read more »

Sentient
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Palma

It’s a mistake for the godfather to allow it.

Appears it was at his request…

Playdontpay
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Remember all you God botherers
NAGALT your god is different! you found a 🦄 god.

Sentient
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rugby11
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rugby11
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If-I-Fell
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I received a “sign” to post a comment. I have been TTS’ing TRM since 2015. Beginning at the middle, I cataloged the first essay as 480. Well, this essay is catalog number 666, it’s about the covenant of marriage, and this is the month of our 29th anniversary. Anyway, I am always looking for listening material for commuting and manual labor. One of my guilty pleasures is a guy called ChroniclesOfJudah 144. A self-proclaimed, “so-called black man”, he’s part brilliant, part mad–an unusual combination of religion, redpill, conspiracy theory, race theory and sports. His intended audience is black men. I… Read more »

jkjkjkjkjdksjd
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In principle, a dignified person doesn’t take part in something that is unfair under every regard and by design (marriage today).

However, what if stopping to accepting legalized and culturally established dishonesty against yourself is the only way to have offspring, and you want to have it (despite the probabilities you won’t be able to even meet with them from a certain point to when they come of age)?

That’s the only rationale for marriage, to have offspring, despite everything.

Novaseeker
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Yep, religion is not a good topic for this blog. Really, discussion of religion in general is just a shit show.

ollieoxenfree1
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@If-I-Fell

Great link. I subbed after 10 minutes.

wahoo Mcdaniels
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The way I see things ,Religion was the easiest mark that Feminism ever set it sights on. It was already headed by Mama’s boys and the gray speckled bird of the elderly. The red pill hard working man of old wouldn’t set foot in a church unless somebody died or got married witch ever was worst. Grandad went to church 3 times the first time they threw water on him the 2nd time they threw rice at him and the 3rd time they threw dirt on him. In these time of turmoil mostly brought on by feminism the church started… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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@If-I-Fell

“…it is not your job to be a baggage handler. You do not work at the airport…”

Truth that makes one laugh is always more memorable. Thanks for those links.

Justin Aussie
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Feel like a laugh – check out this towering pillar of female entitlement brought to you by the Australian Government – https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-27/philosophy-helped-me-leave-my-marriage-quit-my-job/10959868

SJF
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“Yep, religion is not a good topic for this blog. Really, discussion of religion in general is just a shit show.” Somebody should write a book about religion and red pill and and then we can just get on to inter-sexual relations and forgetaboutit. Funny thing, though, on the road to red pill masculine self-actualization and self differentiation from the masses (of people) and the self differentiation from female partners, the pervasive concepts in religion form a basis for dealing with the disconnect from heart/soul and mind. In a good way. It is a workaround in today’s noisy soc-media new… Read more »

EhIntellect
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ScribblerG wrote: “I think you should implement a “comment quota” here…blah blah…each person gets say 3-5 comments per post…blah blah…
What say you guys?”

My idea this:

All comments in haiku form

ScribblerG then poof!

walawala
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Krauser brings edge and some street cred…I’ve read his books and every dude complaining about not getting banged should read them too before whinging.

Sentient
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Palma/Wala

https://twitter.com/RationalMale/status/1122877177249189888

Rollo hosting Krauser today at 3PM EST

70s AntiHero
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How does Objectivety and Religion go together?

Sentient
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So Krauser is done with the PUA lifestyle and now looking for a wife… Signing up for a high risk marriage contract for which there is no benefit…

j
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^

https://twitter.com/JRB_96/status/1122526950642388992

Doesn’t help when everybody here laughs @ the notion of “quality” women

Anonymous Reader
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Off topic

Proctor & Gamble (PG) has good news and bad news.
Good news: Reported earnings beat projections. Stock price reflects this so far.

https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=pg&ty=c&ta=1&p=d

Bad news: The Gillette portion was zip. Zilch. Flat.

Even market analysts noticed…

https://www.marketwatch.com/articles/gillette-procter-gamble-earnings-51556117984

Anonymous Reader
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Sentient
So Krauser is done with the PUA lifestyle and now looking for a wife…

Once again demonstrating it is possible to take the Red Pill, but only enough to run PUA Game. In other words, he had a Monocle, not a pair of The Glasses. Could see clearly but only with one eye.

Well, at least he can get some advice from Rollo…’cause he’ll need it, even in Europe.

Sentient
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“Doesn’t help when everybody here laughs @ the notion of “quality” women”

Heh. Depends on which side of the stat you end up on…

There is a reason for the laughter.

walawala
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Before Rugby starts endlessly posting his insightful “This is interesting” with links that may or may not include this…here’s Rollo’s full interview with Krauser. I followed Krauser’s blog very closely and it offered both strategic and very tactical “how-to” advice on how to put the Red Pill into action with game. He’s very honest talking about both the upsides and the downsides of pick up. Most guys here never get to the point of a downside. I’m at a point where instead of chasing every hot girl that gives me an indicator of interest i’m much more selective. But only… Read more »

foxguy
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“Once again demonstrating it is possible to take the Red Pill, but only enough to run PUA Game. In other words, he had a Monocle, not a pair of The Glasses. Could see clearly but only with one eye.” A lot of these guys haven’t actually digested the entire redpill, it’s too dark, they have taken the useful aspects of it and leveraged them for benefit, nothing wrong with that, but it leaves them exposed to not seeing the whole picture. At the end of the day most men are programmed to want to have kids/settle down with a family,… Read more »

rugby11
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walawala
Never given up man staying positive self improvement learning what works and changing what you really have control over. Krauser and Rollo’s discussion was the best thing ive heard in awhile.

Anonymous Reader
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@Rollo
Good interview with Nick Krauser, cured some of my ignorance about Nick just for a start. Sometimes a rambling conversation can get tedious after a while but there was no temptation to scroll ahead. The convention in Poland should be interesting and useful.

Plus it’s a good idea to put a stake in the ground in Eastern Europe in case something like the 21 convention is banned in the US.

Yollo Comanche
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@70’s Anti-hero

Remember how the Muslims took the Iberian peninsula but then the Spaniards got off their asses and took it back? THAT’S how.

scribblerg
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@WalaWala – Great point about the limits of PUA and what one learns along the way. Let me say that I think each man’s journey though this Red Pill reality will be different due to their experience in life, with age and POV and SMV etc shaping it. My experience has been “seeing through” women, which is a mixed bag. Taking women off of their pedestal has a downside, they are no longer that important to me. I don’t buy into their “magic” anymore. Ditto for sex. Since it’s less charged with meaning, it’s just not so crucial to me.… Read more »

MarkT
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After listening to the full discussion and also reading this, the distinction that’s trying to be made between a ‘contractual’ and ‘covenant’ marriage makes no real sense to me. A good contract is a win-win for both parties, just like a good marriage. Both parties benefit from the relationship. How is this different from a ‘so-called’ covenant marriage? The definition seemed unclear, and the only distinguishing feature I could detect in what Everett Piper said is an element of self sacrifice, of forgoing your own self interest in a covenant marriage. But that implies a win-lose relationship rather than win-win.… Read more »

redpillrabbi
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@MarkT The key distinction between a ‘contractual’ and ‘covenant’ marriage is this: contractual is a legally binding contractual relationship, enforceable at court with civil and criminal penalties. Which results in the contract being unfairly enforced against men for the financial benefit of women. It incentivizes women to blow up their families. This reality causes MGTOW, divorce-rape, male suicide, parental estrangement, men in jail. It’s causing bad results for men, children, and families. “covenant” is the couple marries under the auspices of their Deity, their Church, whatever. There is no legally enforceable contract. The husband and wife are loyal to each… Read more »

disgruntledearthling
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Krauser sounds a lot more intellectual, reasoned, and deeper than I expected. Deserves a 2nd look…

walawala
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@Scribb Thanks. Women should be part of your life and I think it’s a rationalization to “see through” women as an excuse not to interact with them. If that’s what you truly want ok. But if you’re fighting an inner urge then find some balance in your life. The Red Pill is “Truth”–seeing Truth doesn’t necessarily mean “seeing through” people it means seeing them as they are, understanding what motivates them, avoiding situations that may cause unnecessary drama—if that means avoiding women, it’s like believing “avoiding crowds” will ensure I stop feeling anxious…you end up cutting yourself off from the… Read more »

rugby11
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walawala “Women should be part of your life and I think it’s a rationalization to “see through” women as an excuse not to interact with them. If that’s what you truly want ok. But if you’re fighting an inner urge then find some balance in your life. The Red Pill is “Truth”–seeing Truth doesn’t necessarily mean “seeing through” people it means seeing them as they are, understanding what motivates them, avoiding situations that may cause unnecessary drama—if that means avoiding women, it’s like believing “avoiding crowds” will ensure I stop feeling anxious…you end up cutting yourself off from the world.”… Read more »

If-I-Fell
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@ Rollo,

Would you please drop the super-super annoying:

… Read more »

Sentient
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Would you please drop the super-super annoying:

… Read more »

Oh hell no!

EhIntellect
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“NB to All Newbies – One of the reasons you are messed up about girls/women/sex is that your “reference experiences” are bad. ” NB to All Newbies – ScribblerG has his drama-tragedy nozzle set to drench. He’s in stasis and that’s why he doesn’t get much sex, can’t develop long term relationships with women, hyper-analyzes the process of pick-up, yet pedestalizes women in his special I’m-not-butthurt-just-reasonable odd way. He turns the RP dial to 11 while swapping his external validators. Banging hottie this week….she’s gone now so I’ll buy a rifle and talk about that…well now that’s not as interesting… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Wala – I’m not sure I understand you. When I say “seeing through women” what I mean is the “feminine mystique” that we’ve been sold in romantic/chivalric cultures and our modern feminist version of women as being somehow just special cuz they are girls. I guess it would be more accurate to say that I’m seeing through my social conditioning wrt women. None of that means I avoid women, in fact, I enjoy women more. But as far as pursuing sexual partners via active game and plates, i’m not doing that right now. If I meet someone, great. Bur for… Read more »

Robert
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Scribblerg You are still struggling mightily with the red pill and it’s most basic concepts appear to elude you and that frustration causes you anguish that you either deal with by anger or shutting down . None of this demonstrates a true internalization of the red pill after many years. Advice, stop lying to yourself and work on the demons torturing you regularly. It’s good that you’re not ” banging hotties ” as that, for you, only served to distract and hinder your full development as a man. You are still sore about the ” lies “, yet you won’t… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Rollo Finally made the time to listen to the conversation between you and Piper. One thing that might be interesting in any future dialog would be to ask “What does the Bible teach about covenant breakers? Is there any price or cost for breaking a covenant?”. I can’t tell if he was being disingenuous or just Boomer TradCon clueless when he said he didn’t know what “feral” meant, or “base nature”. As I’ve mentioned over at Dalrock’s, some of these pastors appear to be married to very compliant women, and it would be easy to assume that AWALT when they… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Eh and @Robert – Bwahahaha. Who’s in whose head? And Robert, talking down to me, do you think that’s original or clever? Striking a pose and being a douche doesn’t look good on you, bunky. Leave it to @Eh, he makes a more and more gigantic ass out of himself here with each rabid, unhinged post he leaves about me. I think he’s got some actual psychological issue or something. He’s really “jumped the shark” over me but can’t see it.

Robert
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Confirmation received , thanks.

EhIntellect
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“Who’s in whose head? And Robert, talking down to me, do you think that’s original or clever?”

It’s the only way to speak to the prostrate.

Jon Bullock
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you should interview Rebecca Lynn Pope for your upcoming book. She touches on a lot of similar things concerning 3rd Wave Fem in the Christian churches and relationships.

Anonymous Reader
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You mean this Rebecca Lynn Pope?

http://rebeccalynnpope.com/

“Manifesting”, heh.

Ramius
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Krauser lives in Serbia. Marriage there is much different than in the USA or England. “In Serbia, couples can also opt for a church or religious marriage, conducted according to the rules of the religious community in question. Patriarchal traditions and religious education are both still influence the behavior of some Serbians. But unlike civil marriages religious marriages are not legally binding. If a man and a woman who have undergone a church marriage then begin to live together their relationship would be regarded in law as the equivalent of cohabitation.” In Serbia, what we call alimony, is child support.… Read more »

DOCTOR ANGELICVS
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You should talk to some orthodox and catholic christian priests, specially if the second group ones you talk with belong to highly reactionary groups, such as Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Pii X (FSSPX) and, in some instances, Opus Dei. Also, ascetic monks. It’s the only way to get valid answers about the ancient christian doctrine concerning marriage, which holds today the same value that it held a thousand years ago. If you wonder what’s my background, well, I’m a lawyer that is currently getting undergraduate degrees in philosophy and theology. Most catholic priest today are scismatic, so I would recommend you… Read more »

Cat
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There are currently 300 “religions” on the planet at the Current Hour; each claiming to be the One & Only Path to “Salvation”. By process of elimination; that means that at least 299 of them are Stone Liars or Con Men seeking to lighten your wallet.

The Biggest Joke is the effort to draw bright line distinctions between “legitimate faiths” (lolzzzzzzzz) and “cults”.

Yes; the claims of Islam; and Christianity; and Judaism; they are “legitimate”…lolz.

When the Incredible Mindwipe you are under is eradicated; get back to me…

kobayashii1681
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“They don’t ever think about it any other way because they’ve already adopted the feminist zeitgeist that’s assimilated their churches. To endorse that separation is to deny women their potential for cash & prizes if a man displeases God by making them unhappy.”

That last sentence.😎

kobayashii1681
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“The “You should’ve vetted better” or “You should’ve married a ‘real’ Christian woman” excuses are something I encounter a LOT from Christian church leaders. Dr. Piper also used this one too. It’s really the Christian version of the Quality Woman dilemma.”

The Christian Madonna/Whore complex.

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