The Existential Fear – Men

You need to understand WOMEN HATE BETAS in fact they hate them so much that they would prefer to work soul destroying jobs to support themselves than attach themselves to a Beta provider that wants to fuck them and impregnate them with his shitty beta genetics.

Incubus Rising

This was a comment that I meant to include in last week’s essay, but I’m glad I saved it for today’s article. It serves as a good starting point for men’s Existential Fear. If there’s one buzz-term that’s been bandied around by women since the rise of feminism it is “fear“. Men fear this. Men fear that. Men feel “threatened” by a strong woman. More recently it’s, “Men fear working with women today over concerns of workplace sexual misconduct.” So, I want to state here from the outset that I’m using the term fear in both these essays for lack of a better one. But what really gets the point across?

“Rollo, why does it destroy my soul to imagine my ex-wife / ex-girlfriend banging another man? I can’t sleep because I’m imagining her giving up herself sexually to a new guy.”

Some variation of this question is something I get a lot from guys I counsel who are going through a breakup or divorce. Sometimes it’s from men who’ve been separated from the woman for a long time. This is to be expected from Blue Pill conditioned men, but even guys who are Red Pill Aware will still feel the rage of infidelity even after the breakup has been official for years. Guys will tell me they wont even go out socially or associate with friends so as not to be in the same space as their ex for fear that they would do something rash if they saw her with another guy. There’s just something in their DNA that’s unsettling about imagining their ex giving herself willingly to another man – and they’re conflicted because the fem-centric world tells him he’s “insecure in his masculinity” for his possessiveness.

I can remember the same anxiety after I’d mercifully split from my BPD girlfriend. Even years after it was all over I’d still have nightmarish dreams about her. What the hell was that all about? What is our subconscious trying to get across to us with this?…

“Why am I so jealous and suspicious of my wife / girlfriend cheating on me? Should I feel bad that I root through her texts and IMs? Am I just ‘insecure in my masculinity’ if I feel like that? Why am I so possessive?”

This is another common one I get from men I counsel. I detailed a bit of this in Gut Check. Our subconscious mind has a way of warning us when our ‘aware’ mind is unaware of, or ignoring, the inconsistencies in our peripheral awareness. We’re actually much more aware of our environment than we appreciate, we simply refuse to acknowledge these inconsistencies. More often than not that denial is conditioned into us for purposes that aren’t always in our best interests. And sometimes it’s outright manipulative of male nature.

In Gut Check I related a time in my life where I had instinctively been suspicious of my wife because my instinctual awareness turned on the warning lights in my head. I had no rational reason to believe my wife was cheating on me, but I had a very real, evolutionary, reason that my instinctive mind would be suspicious of infidelity. Millennia of evolution has written anti-cheating failsafes into our mental firmware.

“Why are DNA tests illegal in some countries? Why is it illegal for a doctor or their staff to tell a “father” that the child he thinks is his own really isn’t biologically his? Why do we legally protect women’s cuckoldry?”

More and more we are seeing feminine-primary social conventions and legislation crop up that can only have one purpose – the systemic disempowerment and disenfranchisement of men’s interests in the reproductive process. The cover story for this Removing of the Man from any semblance of reproductive authority is what I call the Cult of the Child. I’ll be publishing a full essay on this soon, but the short version is that anything that serves women’s sexual strategy is always deemed to be “in the best interests of the child.” The interests of children has become the shield of what is really the interests of women’s sexual strategy.

For decades now, feminist ideology has successfully convinced most western societies that what serves the female reproductive interests is always what serves the a child’s interests. Men are superfluous at best, and pose a danger to the child at worst. This presumption is rooted in the Duluth Model of feminism, but women’s sexual strategy always comes at the cost of the reproductive interests of the man/father. I wrote about this in Children of Men. There is an open war on paternity today, but as with all intersexual conflict we need to look deeper to determine what the latent purpose of that conflict is all about. What interests are served in unilaterally disenfranchising men from the reproductive process?

Existential Fear

The answer to all of these questions finds their root in men’s Existential Fear – All men have an evolved need to determine and ensure his paternity.

Ascertaining paternity, and ensuring his parental investment is vested in perpetuating his genetic legacy, is the prime directive of men’s existence. This is a male imperative that virtually all higher order animals share.

Despite what many blank-slate academics still promote, men and women are different. Contemporary thinkers would have us believe the sexes are more alike than not, but the truth of it is we are different in fundamental ways that most equalists are uncomfortable admitting. Yes, we are the same species, but the fact remains that our differences, and in particular our sexual strategies, conflict in profound ways.

The Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other
gender must compromise or abandon its own.

In last week’s essay I outlined the the Existential Fear women hold in their evolved unconscious – that of the Hypergamous doubt. “Is this guy the best I can do?” is the question that their hindbrains ask. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution, and the systemic Fempowerment that followed, women have collectively used this authority to ensure the preeminence of their sexual strategy (Hypergamy) in our social order. I outlined many of the resulting social changes we see were the result of this in last week’s post, but this preeminence came at the cost of men’s interests and influence in the larger, meta-conflict of the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies.

Men’s evolved reproductive interest is very simple; ensure that the child a woman bears to him is his actually his own. Up until the last 60 or so years patriarchy, true, legitimate patriarchy has always been the order of society. Despite the ignorance of feminists protesting it, patriarchy has been a beneficial aspect of our advancement as a species since we formed tribal hunter-gatherer bands millennia ago. But that patriarchy depended on a simple doubt that formed men’s base sexual strategy – ensure his genes were passed into the next generation.

There are two ways a man can achieve this outcome. In The New Polyandry I explained men’s Strategic Pluralism Theory:

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

Essentially, men follow an ‘r’ or ‘K’ reproductive strategy according to their (perceived) sexual market value (SMV). Since a majority of men fall on the low SMV side of the reproductive equation social conventions that served those men’s reproductive interests had to be developed and standardized. The resolution of men’s Existential Fear needed to be instituted and standardized to ensure the largest number of men could be relatively certain that the children they sired were indeed their own.

A lot is made of women’s reproductive costs in academia. In a fem-centric social order it pays to focus on women’s suffrage/victimhood narrative. But, men bear reproductive costs in this equation as well. Men’s biological imperative is unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. Our best shot at sending our genes into the next generation is ‘spreading the seed’. Our biological hardware is made to do just this, but there are costs and obstacles to solving the reproductive problem. And the easiest solution for men has always been exercise their direct control over women’s sexual strategy. Imposing our natural strength (in many forms) on women has historically ensured that it’s women who were the ones to compromise their sexual strategy in favor of men.

Patriarchy & Monogamy

Socially enforced monogamy was the least barbaric of those compromises, but in this century destroying that monogamy has been a priority for the Feminine Imperative. In theory, socially enforced monogamy was the most beneficial mating strategy for largest number of (low SMV) men to solve their reproductive problem. But the fact remained that it was still an exercise of control over women’s Hypergamous natures. In essence, monogamy worked for men, and it was beneficial as a compromise in parental investment for women, but it also assumed direct a control over women’s sexual selection process.

Patriarchy and monogamy answered a woman’s Hypergamous doubt for her, and that is the crux of women’s Existential Fear – to have the control of her Hypergamy, her selection process, and ultimately the cost associated with that choice determined for her. This fear is exactly why the primary goal of feminism has always been the maximal unlimiting of women’s sexuality and the maximal restricting of men’s sexuality. It seeks to replace the social-scale compromise of the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies with the total capitulation of the male strategy. Today, the Gynocracy has achieved this almost entirely.

But for one sex’s strategy to succeed, the other’s must be compromised or abandoned. For a gynocentric social order, only men’s abandonment of their own strategy is acceptable – and this abandonment insists men deny the evolved imperative of their own Existential Fear – insisting on paternity.

In the evolved scheme of things men’s reproductive best interest involves sacrifices. When a man commits to parental investment with a woman he takes on sunk cost risks. The time he spends investing himself committed to one woman and the children they produce comes at the cost of reproductive opportunities with other women. Women’s sexual strategy necessitates he compromise or abandon his biological imperative. Naturally, both men and women have adapted ways to circumvent monogamy to optimize their sexual strategies (infidelity, short-term breeding schema), but the basic equation is the same; if a man is invested in one woman it limits him from seeking other (potentially better) reproductive opportunities. If you want to know why Plate Theory irks women so much look no further.

The only way this compromise of sexual strategy can be advantageous to men is if he can be relatively assured that the child he’s raising is his own. This is where men’s Existential Fear of paternity fraud begins. He cedes his own strategy and the sunk opportunity cost for reproduction in exchange for the certainty that he’s invested in a child that bears his name and his blood.

I call this men’s Existential Fear because denying men the certainty of paternity presents the same existential anxieties as a woman’s control of Hypergamous doubt taken from her. Women fear the idea of being forced to birth and raise the child of a suboptimal man not of her choosing, while men fear the idea of being deceived into raising a child not of their own genetic lineage. And until the advent of DNA testing only a woman could be certain that the child was her own.

This is root level stuff here. So important was the determination of paternity for men that an obsessive concern for it was written into our mental firmware. The risks of falling for paternity deception was that important, and the men who evolved this compulsion were selected-for. The reason we Mate Guard, the reason our hindbrains default to jealous suspicions, the reason we cannot bear the thought of another man mating with our woman is rooted in the fear of investing ourselves in a child not our own.

In the previous essay I mentioned the natural revulsion response humans have towards things that are inherently harmful to us. A reservation or revulsion of snakes, spiders, feces, rot and necrosis are part of the evolved firmware we’re born with. I would also argue that the revulsion women feel towards “creepy” (low SMV, Beta) men and the revulsion men feel towards “slutty” women is part of this. Both these revulsions are adaptational protections against our respective Existential Fears. Each represents our Instinctual Interpretive Process letting us know what our ancestors had to avoid.

The Mentor

“But Rollo, isn’t it a noble thing to adopt or mentor a child that is not your own?”

I get this response a lot when I discuss this, and yes, it absolutely can be when the choice to do so is of your own making. In fact, the reason adoption/mentoring seems such a noble undertaking is exactly because it requires a man to repress his natural concern for his ow paternity. Kinship affinity will always play a role in men and women’s relationships with the next generation. Human beings are innately tribal and familial because tribalism promotes the advancement of selected genes. So repressing this innate predisposition is exceptional, maybe even noble depending on the social context, but it is so because it requires a man to ignore his natural wiring. For what it’s worth, I think multi-generational mentorship in Red Pill awareness is going to be a new imperative in the coming decades.

It’s just this pushing past our natural, evolved, concerns about paternity that’s been the operative dynamic of the Feminine Imperative in consolidating power. The human revulsion response can be molded. Usually this is through some form of operant conditioning. Revulsion can even be conditioned to be associated with pleasure. The Feminine Imperative has been remolding men’s evolved need for paternity to its own ends for some time now.

The popularization of ‘Poly Relationships is one of the more recent redirects of men’s paternity need. As I mentioned above, the goal state of the Feminine Imperative is ensuring that women’s sexual strategy – and anything that foments it – is the socially ‘correct‘ imperative. Men must become more like women if they want to be accepted by a social order defined by women’s experiences. Men’s sexual strategy is only acceptable when it serves a woman’s purpose, so men’s existential imperative of ensuring paternity is always going to be in conflict with women’s strategy. A man insisting on his own paternity and the perpetuation of his name is in direct conflict with women ensuring she chooses to breed with the best specimen and be provided for by the best male she can lock down.

This being the mechanics of it, it comes as no surprise that the social conventions of this era encourage men to abandon that evolved need. We make “heroes” of men who marry the single mother and assume the parental investment costs of the man she chose to breed with. A fem-centric society makes this a noble responsibility – “He Manned Up for the loser who wouldn’t take that responsibility” – all while ignoring the simple fact that this ‘hero’ is only completing women’s Hypergamous imperative. And it’s come to the point that a man abandoning his sexual strategy is part of women’s expectations and entitlements of Beta men.

For the men who insist on their own strategy, the message is one of shame. Only a man who’s “insecure in his masculinity” would think that a child would need to be his own. In fact, the very title of “father” is offensive to a social order based fulfilling women’s imperatives. Father’s Day must become, ‘special persons’ day‘. Men should never insist that a wife assume his last name. And of course, DNA testing to determine paternity (even in light of life threatening illness) is to be discouraged if not outlawed.

Now You Know

In The War on Paternity I explored a lot of the ways our feminine-primary social order ensures women’s sexual strategy stays the operative one. Our divorce laws, our child support and custody laws all center on one thing – making sure women’s imperatives supersede men’s need for paternity certainty. Even when a child is not biologically a man’s, he has no right to know the truth, but he has every expectation to be financially and emotionally responsible for the “best interests of the child.”

Going forward I think the Red Pill aware man must embrace his existential need for paternity – and do so fearlessly. If a new beneficent patriarchy is to take root then men will need to reject the social conventions that insist a woman’s sexual strategy be the preeminent one. I think mentorship of the next generations of young men should also be emphasized, but I think this needs to be a conscious decision of the men doing so. Today we have the decision to be a ‘cuckold’ made for us proactively and retroactively by women and a feminine-primary social narrative. If you’re an adoptive father then I salute you, but understand, at least you had the decision to make yourself. Most men’s decisions to be the step-dad only amounts to him acquiescing to supporting the decisions of women. 43% of births today are out of wedlock, either electively or based on a bad decision by that mother. We also call single mothers ‘heroes’.

My advice to men today is to be aware of the game you’re involved in with respect to how your need to know paternity is being used against you. That need is well known to the Feminine Imperative and has always been a threat to its interests. Make your own decisions to mentor based on that knowledge and never marry a single mother. If you do so understand that your sacrifices of this paternity need will never be appreciated by women. You may believe it’s the “right thing to do”, the moral choice, but in doing so you absolve both the woman who made her decision for you and the biological father of their total responsibility (and the underlying evolutionary reasons) to consequences of that decision.

Remember,…

WOMEN HATE BETAS in fact they hate them so much that they would prefer to work soul destroying jobs to support themselves than attach themselves to a Beta provider that wants to fuck them and impregnate them with his shitty beta genetics.

Are you really willing to accept that your paternity need counts for so little? Are you willing to accept this truth and fulfill a woman’s life strategy in spite of it because you believe it’s your moral imperative to do so?

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

477 comments on “The Existential Fear – Men

  1. The previous article made totally clear that women in the modern world control reproduction.
    Who controls the woman? The default is “herself”, i.e. “no one”.

    Don’t be in the default situation.

  2. “is in direct conflict with women ensuring she chooses to breed with the best specimen and be provided for by the best male she can lock down”.

    I’ll help her with the first part.

  3. @Blaximus

    First of all, this is not a trick question. Second of all I want to hear your experiences.

    What do you think of mentoring young men. And what do you think of how it is going for you?

  4. Interesting OP Rollo.

    I’ve never given much thought at all about paternity issues in my own life and dealings with women, but when a younger man, I’d felt the whole ” jealousy ” thing quite a few times, and the very first time I’d felt it I was 100% correct to feel that way.

    Re: Marrying a ” single mother “, My wife had a daughter already when we married. I didn’t ” adopt ” her, because she had a father and he hadn’t died ( although he was just a flakey, irresponsible kind of guy ). I actually knew my wife’s ex before we ever dated.

    My investment in my step daughter goes as far as being supportive and pushing her to succeed. Divorce is very hard on some kids, and she was a poster child for this, pining away for a father that was mostly disinterested.

    I agree though, that a majority of men would do well to stay away from single mothers with a notion of doing anything ” Noble “. Fuck that shit. Variables man, variables.

    Wondering about the paternity/DNA content of your kid has got to be a mindfuck of epic proportions. I’m only aware of a man raising a child thinking it was his once in my circles. He was in the service stationed in Korea, and his wife came up pregnant. The timing correlated with a time when he was home on leave for a spell, so there wasn’t any questions asked. He only learned the truth after the child was about 2-3 years old. It virtually tool all of us guys from the neighborhood to stop him from killing the wife and the baby daddy. I know one young man that I have counciled to get a dna test ( although in Jersey, if you sign the birth certificate, you ARE the father regardless ).

    Paternity=fear.

    Damn.

    Well, that explains why I was driven mad at a younger age by my very first ” women “. I always saw that fear as a form of weakness, but I also lacked the means and skill to ” control ” her, and that caused worry untold.

    Wherever my first wife is today, I’d hope that she finally did find a guy. She was frustrated for many years. It doesn’t bother me if she’s happily banging away. At my age now, if I got divorced, I won’t sweat it if my wife bangs somebody in the divorce lawyer’s office at the proceedings. Lol, took me a very long time and some awful experiences to have that mindset. Jealousy doesn’t live here anymore.

    It is possible, I think, to eliminate most of the paternity concerns, but it takes Red Pill understanding and elimination of Blue Pill thinking. You can ” control ” your woman/women, but first you gotta control yourself and grasp that you can’t deal with just any woman, no matter shit like HB rating. That kills more men than cancer, that hot woman thing. Blinding. Be smart.

  5. “is in direct conflict with women ensuring she chooses to breed with the best specimen and be provided for by the best male she can lock down”.

    I’ll help her with the first part.

    Out of context J. Are you going to perpetuate your own name one day? Not that there is nothing wrong with not doing that.

  6. Fascinating read as always.

    Is there data around what how single mothers became so? My blue pill perception was that 95%+ of single mothers fell into it because the man literally walked out/moved/went AWOL. I looked for the answer and couldn’t find anything relevant.

    I’d like to see a the curve with one side of the spectrum being a single mother whose husband of 5 years died while she was 8 months pregnant and the other being a psycho who legally abducted her child from a willing father.

  7. SJF

    Mentoring young men is a hard as ever, and just as hard as trying to mentor young women. The Gynocracy has bullhorns and they are invasive.

    My message to young males remains the same as ever – STFDAT ( Slow The Fuck Down and Think ). That message gets drowned out in it’s singularity. Young men today are a complete 180 from where I was and what my mindset was at their age. They have a very hard time grasping ” Game ” concepts ( not pua ) because it seems pointless to them.

    But if I speak too 100 of them, 10 will ” get it “, and I guess I’ll have to take that.

    For now.

    Lots of the young men are from either single parent households or have ” beta ” type dads that can’t offer them anything useful – so to them, I’m immediately useless, lol. I have to use my car to trick some of them into listening to me for a minute or two.

    These cats aren’t fearful at all though. They are in a state of suspended adolescence. They mostly know anger and indifference. I’m cracking that code, but it’s fucking exhausting sometimes. You gotta be a master therapist to just get them to express what they feel or think so you might offer some insight. Everything seems to be surface level.

    I’m calling out the bigger guns to help out, but many don’t have the patience to deal with youth. We still have the core group that we started out with – cops, lawyers, District attorney, business dude, ex con. I’m steering clear of the politicos….for now. The Mayor spoke at a gathering once, but only offered promises and tropes.

    I don’t think I will be doing this too much longer. I have a bunch of guys that I’d like to continue mentoring in smaller settings, one on one. But it’s hard to just throw in the towel ( and if I get much more grey hair it’s gonna be damn near 100% coverage ).

  8. Thanks for you thoughts Blaximus.

    Truly a bottoms up approach. You are doing good work. One kid at a time.

    https://youtu.be/5IsSpAOD6K8

    This song deals with the futility of not being happy with the things you have. Like trying to remove the water at the bottom of the ocean, there’s no way to stop life from moving on. The forces of nature (like the ocean) keep you moving almost without your conscious effort – like a ventriloquist moving a puppet.

    Head Head David Byrne shed some light on his lyrical inspiration when he told Time Out: “Most of the words in ‘Once in a Lifetime’ come from evangelists I recorded off the radio while taking notes and picking up phrases I thought were interesting directions. Maybe I’m fascinated with the middle class because it seems so different from my life, so distant from what I do. I can’t imagine living like that.”–Songfacts.com

    And we all know about Life During Wartime. And Psycho Killer.

    It’s a thing.

    As well as being in the moment.

    Keep going. Just Do It.

  9. @SJF, Blax, EI

    Lots of the young men are from either single parent households or have ” beta ” type dads that can’t offer them anything useful – so to them, I’m immediately useless,

    This is my SIL to a T. His dad told him, “True love waits.” That was the sum total of his dad’s advice about romance. So, of course, reaching SIL in a way that doesn’t make me seem useless is a tricky problem.

    I got a tough row to hoe.

  10. “So, of course, reaching SIL in a way that doesn’t make me seem useless is a tricky problem.

    I got a tough row to hoe.”

    Jesus Christ, what we could do without our fucking burden of performance.

    Just do it.

    IDK. I way backed off Red Pill with my future son in law this past half year. God was my daughter pissed the way “I was treating my wife, red pill wise” Which all was going great, little knowledge to my wife and kid. They had no clue what was in their best interest. And they did come around. My wife certainly cummed around. My daughter was thinking something beside which was the case. I was red pill gaming my wife and things were turning around in a reconstruction well. My daugher was telling me; “How to you think she feels”. Trick question. Requires proper answer. I don’t recall what I answered with.

    I feel bad, not keeping up with my future son in law. He’s busy working. My daughter and him are great people.

    The wedding is coming up quickly. In May.

    I don’t need to councel him on red pill. He’s a decent dude. No demerits in me or my wife’s eyes. Solid.

    I thing I can resume the buddy relationship later.

    What I am trying to say is my daughter totally blew up with my red pill shit. I didn’t flaunt it. But I had EhIntellet and his son. And Roused and his son visit me IRL. And she totally freaked out. We had a discussion: “What do you think mom thinks about this?” Well I don’t care. But I do care about my daughter’s relationship with my future son in law.

    Once again, so I backed off discussions with them. We’ll marry them and have grand-kids in healthy due time.

    So the deal is the son in law is a future buddy. My daughters fears need to be assuaged. Semi Purple pill there. But I’m not going to fuck things up there. I’m certainly aligned with her interests, and if I can guide him to his best representation of himself, won’t we all just be peachy keen?

  11. Blaximus
    My message to young males remains the same as ever – STFDAT ( Slow The Fuck Down and Think )

    Say, do you recall being in your 20’s? Just asking.

    These cats aren’t fearful at all though. They are in a state of suspended adolescence. They mostly know anger and indifference. I’m cracking that code, but it’s fucking exhausting sometimes. You gotta be a master therapist to just get them to express what they feel or think so you might offer some insight. Everything seems to be surface level.

    It’s part of their coping. Look, almost all young men learn to wear a poker face one way or another, sooner or later, but with the level of insanity in K – 12 where doodling fighter planes can get a young man sent to a shrink, many of them have learned as you note “anger and indifference”. Trust is precious to men. It’s probably rarer now in the 20-somethings because of all the White Knights and microoffended SJW’s infestations.

    First rule of Fight Club still applies.

  12. Hmmmm…….My only son from marriage number one is dead and the nearest genetic legacy I have is a niece with whom I have very little contact with. Marriage number two came with several step-kids that I never really was able to bond with but, I was able to bond with the grandchildren. Alas, they went away too when number two had an “Eat.Pray.Love” epiphany and announced she no longer loved me. My gene line has stopped. I am way too old and selfish now to ever want to have children again but I have come to a conclusion that at least, works for me: I don’t care anymore about having “my” children anymore or having my name continue on through the ages, but what I do fret about on occasion, is not having had a measurable impact on the world and to not being remembered when I die. I am constantly dropping RP nuggets on the young guys who work for me. Sometimes they hear me, sometimes they don’t and that’s about the best I can hope for in terms of mentoring. One knocked up a 31 year old, single mom. He’s 19. I did tell him to insist on a paternity test and if it’s his, to establish a rock-solid parenting plan with the Court. Sometimes biology just makes me tired……..

  13. AR

    I remember my 20’s like it was yesterday. That’s why I stated that these guys are 180 degrees opposite. In my 20’s I was champing at the bit, full of boundless energy with an extreme thirst for life and accomplishment and learning. In had to learn to slow down, listen, think.
    Many of these guys aren’t passionate about life. They are too easily led towards wasting time in trivial pursuits. A lot of thought about what somebody else is accomplishing, little action toward self accomplishment.

    I agree that school has an awful lot to do with the atmosphere. A lot or belittling and shaming and false accusations ( don’t bring your ” thug ” life in here…). I’m basically trying to get them to question their surroundings and what they been told/what they believe. Just question it for statters, rather than tuning out life.

    Asd & SJF ( too )

    I borrow from Rollo and many of the conversations we all have here. Mental point of origin and burden of performance is a constant mantra. The young man auditioning for the part of SIL currently will listen. Marrying my daughter is a.completely different matter though😁. But he’s spreading his winds and pushing boundaries….at last. Andrew seems ago he took his first long roadtrip. With my youngest. They went to spend time with my parents. Daughter tells me he spent more time walking around and talking with my father than he did with her.

    When the lightbulb goes on, things start happening quickly, as many men have said right here in these comments. I take inspiration from everywhere I can draw it from. Lol, this stuff tests your game to the upper limits. Trying to get through to a blood one minute, and a shy bespectacled 16 year old the next without alienating or appearing to lecture ….well…thank God for coffee. You can’t be ” standard “, but you have to be genuine.

    They trust nobody. I get this. But they need to build themselves into that thing they can trust.

    See? Talking to you guys just have me another point to make and expand on with them.

    😂😂😂 So I’m good for April’s meeting.

  14. Back to the OP, men’s fears takes many forms depending on circumstances. Fear is a normal emotion/reaction, as Rollo states. But as SJF would say, ” what are you going to do about it? “. Men should never fear any ( unarmed) woman, but the state apparatus along with the power hungry feminist overlords have a different agenda in mind.

    That’s too bad because all of those machinations will never change the truth. The obfuscation, unfortunately, is proving destructive and even deadly. So men need to understand what’s going on and get geometrically smarter at the same time. Tall order.

    Totally doable.

    Man on the fucking moon….remember?

  15. Blaximus
    I remember my 20’s like it was yesterday. That’s why I stated that these guys are 180 degrees opposite. In my 20’s I was champing at the bit, full of boundless energy with an extreme thirst for life and accomplishment and learning. In had to learn to slow down, listen, think.

    Lol, right, so you are telling these men … what? Oh, yeah

    My message to young males remains the same as ever – STFDAT ( Slow The Fuck Down and Think )

    As I was saying…


    I agree that school has an awful lot to do with the atmosphere. A lot or belittling and shaming and false accusations ( don’t bring your ” thug ” life in here…). I’m basically trying to get them to question their surroundings and what they been told/what they believe. Just question it for statters, rather than tuning out life.

    The world of K – 12 got a lot more stifling after Columbine because of the “anti-bullying” measures that pretty much made any schoolyard scuffle into A Major Incident (“Students will Shelter in Place”). Stuff that used to be handled by an assistant principal and maybe one of the coaches now had to be dealt with by some uniformed someone, because reasons. Even out here in flyover that’s when we got cops at high schools replacing / augmenting the security guards.

    But that’s also maybe when the whole tattletale / snitch culture got going, where students were supposed to report on anything that might be a bad thing, “Derek’s dooding tanks!” etc.

    Whatever the reason, the young men you are interacting with are from the land of Zero Tolerance. Scuffle in the parking lot of high school at the end of the day isn’t just “take it off campus”, now it’s likely to involve cops. I told you about a case little over a year ago, where the security guard kept digging until he found something he could call a weapon. Then Zero Tollerants. [1]

    All in all, it’s made school even less interesting than before, and more riddled with tattletales. That can lead to a lot of resignation.

    Bonus: T levels are still dropping and PE is optional or a joke, so 18 year old men are generally not the same physicallly now as 30 years ago, or maybe even 20 years ago….or mentally, because we all know T makes a big difference in the male brain.

    All I’m saying is this: it’s not just the young men themselves, it’s the environment that surrounds them and how they have been taught to react to it.

    That’s where you, and other men, come in…”how to react to it”.

    [1] By the way, that young man got done with high school at the “other school” and has moved out of state to a small tech school. I believe he will be ok.

  16. Isn’t it funny that we only “care” as much as our options allow?

    Beta men don’t care as much for paternity as Alphas because most times wifing up that single mum and becoming “Captain save a ho” and rescuing said ho from her hupergamous decisions is the only “option “ that they have!

    The only “options” that these low SMV men have are not really options at all they are just taking what they can get.

    All this “ do the right thing” and “honour “ bullshit is just a mental buffer he employs to alleviate the cognitive dissonance of subconsciously knowing that he’s been had for a sucker and has had no choice but to subjugate his own best interests.

    He didn’t do it because he was a “good” man, he did it because the only other choice he likely had was inceldom.

    He deludes himself because the reality of his decision is so unflattering to his ego.

    The Fi on the other hand tells him “ we salute you you are the REAL man”.

    Who do you choose to believe? your instincts or the false flattery of a group that s interests are diametrically opposed to your own?

  17. @Rollo: interesting as usual but the one about women was harder hitting, at least for me.

    Maybe because I don’t want kids?

    I’d be interested in knowing what you think about these feelings of jealousy in terms of the situation; monogamously coupled men (and parents at that) probably most vulnerable to such feelings, men that are spinning plates possibly quite chill about the whole thing, and of course with individual variation also thrown in.

    Certainly the strongest displays of jealousy are quite a beta tell?

  18. Soy and feminism are killing the male competitive instincts…

    But as I find myself edged out of traditional employment and social institutions due to age, race and mindset I realize that my survival instincts kick in.

    I work on myself…to ensure I’m competitive in the social sexual marketplace.

    What I find is a specific group of hot millennial girls who find they don’t fit into soy-ciety.

    They’re craving masculinity in all its forms…just like millennials are buying up old vinyl 33rpm records because they sound better and offer a selection of music not available on soy-ify.

    The lesson here is that nothing is inevitable.

  19. Good post, Rollo. I think you’re 100% right about what’s happening in our culture with regards paternity. However, if you’re talking about men’s existential fear, I think for me there is a fear that was way stronger than my fear of being cuckolded—the fear of death or maiming at the hands of a stronger man.

    I grew up in an English town with a football team and on match days, you could virtually feel the town holding its breath. I don’t know how much you know about hooligan culture, but it was (and maybe still is) pervasive in the UK and it is ugly and brutal. There was a character in the movie ‘Trainspotting’ called Begbie who shoves a beer glass into a man’s face for making him spill his beer. I knew a couple of potential Begbies at school and there were two choices: (i) fight them and get beaten to shit (And even if you won, the Begbie-type would come at you afterwards; he would make it his life’s mission to fuck you up). (ii) learn to avoid them.

    I learned to avoid them. And one of the best ways for a less-strong man to avoid the Begbies of this world is to go to feminized spaces in which the Begbies wouldn’t be seen dead. Spaces such as art colleges, drama groups and dance schools. Not only is a less-strong safe from the Alpha knucklehead, but he gets to spend his time and energy learning to draw and write dialogue and dance, rather than having to learn street fighting. Plus there are loads of women there! In terms of pure enjoyment, I much preferred this route. (Maybe this is Blue Pill thinking, but I really LIKE being in places where I don’t have to worry about someone trying to punch my face in.)

    In your recent podcast with Pat Campbell on trusting women, he said, ‘Not every women WILL cheat, but every women COULD’. And your joint conclusion was that men need to learn to deal with this. Well, by the same token: Not every strong man WILL beat up a weaker man, but every strong man COULD. And I believe that this fear of what the stronger man could do influences a lot of men in going to places where stronger men don’t go.

  20. Throat punches work well on bullies. ( disclaimer: dangerous stuff as you could accidentally crush his trachea and kill his dumb ass , so use with cautIon ).

    Confrontation and occasional violence/bloodshed used to be a right of passage. Kind you, I said ” occasional “. Begbie should have been handled by a ” group ” of men so as to tamp down his love of mayhem.

    If a big learns to defend himself, and men do what they are supposed to do as far as banding together to maintain order, nobody should ever have fear of stronger men doing foul shit.

    But things aren’t what they should be. Knuckle up and protect ya neck.

  21. “Lol, right, so you are telling these men … what? Oh, yeah

    My message to young males remains the same as ever – STFDAT ( Slow The Fuck Down and Think )

    As I was saying…”

    Lmao

  22. @ ex cartoonist

    Constantly living with that kind of fear and self policing the places you frequent and your actions because of that fear of “Stronger men” sounds horrific to me!

    Would it not be easier in the long term to get your weak ass in the gym and learn MMA?

    Fear is debilitating you have to resolve this issue or you will “live” your life feeling and acting like prey! Not a mindset I’d like to live with.

  23. IAS

    “Certainly the strongest displays of jealousy are quite a beta tell?”

    Interesting question. I suppose there are variations in the display. Certainly the feeling of jealousy is not specificly beta.

    Often jealousy invokes feelings of powerlessness and scarcity. That would be beta.

    To me, jealousy invokes feelings of anger, centered on disrespect and a violation of my property.

    Same feelings I had when my car was broken into. Like Who the fuck did this? Goddamn it! Rage.

    Is a bull elk jealous of the young bucks trying to tap his harem?

  24. the fear of death or maiming at the hands of a stronger man.

    …so you maim them so they can’t fight you…don’t throat punch unless you can catch them off guard–go for the knees…then double-tap their ribs…look for a fight-ending strike rather than just getting a blow in…

    …or you can wear a dress…

    …back when I was a runt, two much older and bigger and stronger bullies picked on me for a few months–stealing lunch money, etc….I eventually told my mother about them after she pressed me about why I didn’t want to go to school…and she found out about my plan to drop bricks on their heads from the school rooftop…and she went and talked to the school principal…who called in their parents…and I’m sure that one of them got a talking to about picking on a runt like me…the other one eventually went to prison for armed robbery…lessons learned in grammar school…

  25. J

    Some get it.

    Look, the state of ” manhood ” is almost completely fucked. Guys act more like chicks than men. It’s a test. An old test. I say ” slow down ” and either you will, or you’ll dismiss the idea and keep on going blindly guessing at what life could be. You cannot see nor contemplate things is your life is just a meaningless blur punctuated by excruciating boredom and confusion and malaise.

    The confusion is supposed to begin dissipating around the mid twenties. That’s traditional. Adolescence appears to be stretching into the early thirties now.

    I mean, it’s no skin off my nose in actuality because I got mine, had a varied and intensely interesting life to this point. If a guy chooses to ” lol ” at that, it’s his prerogative, but one thing about aging is that you get to see a lot of things play out over time.

    The wheel still exists and has yet to be reinvented.

    When I was your age ( lol..), There was no such thing as adhd diagnosis. No medicating chikdren, predominantly boys. No zero tolerance ( fomenting even more fuckery ). Lower suicide rates. Mass shootings were extremely rare. Nobody shit up a school filled with 7 year olds.

    Why?

    More importantly, why aren’t men doing anything about these things?

    These are some things to think about and at least contemplate, as a man. Chicks don’t sorry as much because there’s an apparatus to give them protection to a degree. Men’s apparatus is other men.

    That’s been lost.

    Lol indeed.

  26. Cartoonist

    “I really LIKE being in places where I don’t have to worry about someone trying to punch my face in.)”

    Well you would be a different person if you fought back against a bully. There is something that breaks for good when you take that step of “enough” and fight back. That is the outcome. Not who wins or loses.

    Nature or nurture? IDK

    My neighborhood was WC. It wasn’t a ghetto or crazy. Bit it was a place where base instincts ruled and conflicts and heirarchies established crudely, via some measure of violence typically.

    From an early age we ran the streets bit a cry of “big kids” would send our elementary age asses running for cover. The Big Kids would fuck with you, take your shit etc. Was just part of life.

    In third grade I pulled a knife on a bully. Principal kept it, told me knock that shit off. Never told my parents…

    In sixth grade I was being bullied and one day just jumped the kid and then bullied him for a while… Lol.

    The point is the mindset of Enough gets established. I’m not going to take it any more, regardless of what happens.

    Served me well with teachers, bosses and eventually women.

    Being bullied is a gift.

  27. Asd

    You don’t depend on ” catching them off guard “. That’s weak.

    Always look another man directly in his eyes. ” sneaking ” dudes is undignified.

  28. Sentient

    Hiding from life stuff used to be actively discouraged.

    I agree 100% that bullying is a gift. An opportunity. If you don’t learn to stand up for yourself at some point, who are you really?

    When ” bullies ” chased me home from elementary school, my loving mother who grew up with 7 brothers, would send me back outside to stand up for myself.

    In that moment I thought she was a heartless bitch😂 but the lesson learned was invaluable and permanent. I don’t know what it means to live in fear and terror of other men.

    Or women.

    Pitbulls still freak me out though.

  29. @ Playdontpay

    “Would it not be easier in the long term to get your weak ass in the gym and learn MMA?”

    No.

    That’s my point. The city I live in is 97% feminine spaces, so it’s actually easier to just … I don’t know … do nothing! Okay, I read in the local newspapers of occasional violence, but it’s not part of daily life. Plus I’m 6’4″, which is a big difference from my childhood, so I don’t make an easy target. The fear of being hurt by a stronger man (or gang of men) is not a constant fear, but an existential fear.

    That said, I do recognise how it may have played a role in my choosing to live in this city in the first place.

  30. “Certainly the strongest displays of jealousy are quite a beta tell?”

    Oh, man, I was looking at pictures on a backed up hard drive the other day. I had some pictures of my wife and kids on my wife’s 45 birthday and when we were downtown walking around and dining near the baseball stadium. The pictures were titled World Series, I think they were having the world series in the town and we were hanging out, outside the ball park. Anyway, she (my wife) was attractive looking. Like a HB9. And I looked like a drunk captain. Go figure.

    Two years ago, I had an epiphany when I discovered on my wife’s I-watch, by accident, (no less, no more), that the neighbor was sexting my wife. A drunken attempt at seduction late at night when she was beside me in bed and distant that month. The way I handled it in a Red Pill fashion, without jealousy was remarkable and effective. Merely the discovery and the potential for social sanctions was enough for my wife to mate guard her own damned self. And it resolved it self fine. The guy basically apologized profusely a month or two later in front of both of us (and so did she) at the country club bar. This was when my red pill game was on point. And my wife was a crab bucket hen in the social scene that had a history of policing hypergamous females at the c.c. The cognitive dissonance was too strong. And the guy had a history of getting in trouble with fraternizing with chicks at the c.c.

    Even if kids are not in play, their is still an rudimentary existential fear in blue pill (or purple pill) men. Less so in aware, game masterful men.

    You live and you learn by reference experiences. Go figure.

  31. I agree strongly with the ” disrespect ” part of sentient’s description of jealousy.

    I absolutely will not tolerate disrespect from a wife or gf. Plates are a different matter and not as consequential.

    I think that’s nurture.

    Frinstance, if a man knows that he’s actively hitting on a married woman that is my wife, and he knows of my existence, he might face retribution, not because I’m guarding, but because of the blatant disrespect. I don’t guard pussy like that.

    Sure, you should let some things go, let some stuff slide, but not all things by any means.

    I think that attitude blunts existential fear greatly, kind of like base jumping or rock climbing. I went from being terrified of heights to maneuvering for window seats in flights and I love it.

    Confrontation is key, and the first person to be confronted is yourself. Decide and understand who you are or people will do it for you.

  32. ” . . . so it’s actually easier to just …”

    If you do things the fast, easy way, expect the fast easy results.

  33. You don’t depend on ” catching them off guard “. That’s weak.

    Always look another man directly in his eyes. ” sneaking ” dudes is undignified.

    Lol, that’s schoolyard thinking…but even if you want to use the “dignified” frame, you can use feints to draw a man’s vision away from the actual threat. If someone is likely to maim you, you kick him in the balls or break his knees and ribs and fuck “dignified” shit.

    That’s why I was considered a badass even when I was a runt. I never went looking for trouble, but I dealt with it if it came my way. Even then, I didn’t always come out on top, but I had respect and trouble tended to stay away from me.

  34. Currently casually seeing and regularly banging a 22 year old dance instructor that looks like Ariana Grande and a 23 year old athletic bodied nurse, I’m 34. The sex is wild and the less effort I make the more effort they put in to see me. Have also been out a few times with a 28 year old artsy type who I really like. I get this gut feeling around her that I have not had in a long time. In addition have a ton of prospects lined up in dating app and find it very easy to get numbers/bangs out and about in bars, etc. There is a great fitness app called Playbook and I am continually pushing myself in the gym and getting stronger and fitter. Also devoting time to creative projects. Look good, feel good, etc. Still seeing friends and having good times. All this is great right? I think it is some times, other times I’m not so sure. It feels great to be wanted and know you can attract women. A lot of my friends are envious and think I’m absolutely crazy when I “complain” about it. This is not some blue pill/purple pill sob story about finding “the one”, it is about feeling “fulfilled”. I am getting my physical needs met, mentally? Not so much. Besides the 28 year old I have no real desire to take these women new places, explore with them. That just isn’t there. I don’t know if this is just me being jaded or what but i’ve never felt this lousy about feeling so good.

  35. “I don’t know if this is just me being jaded or what but i’ve never felt this lousy about feeling so good.”

    Your mental point of origin and Frame are outside of your head. You are seeking external validation. You don’t have your purpose and mission locked down. Keep trying.

    But at least you have Red Pill awareness down. In the Bargaining stage of Grief. (If I just do this, _____ will happen. Then on to Depression.) Accept how things are, not how they ought to be.

  36. I agree 100% that bullying is a gift. An opportunity.

    Yep. Men need to be tough. You develop that in boyhood and as young men. I dunno, maybe you think I just “talk tough.” But I was a military brat and a runt. Those boys who were military brats and moved around know what’s what.

    I don’t know what it means to live in fear and terror of other men.

    +1

    Do you think about your tactics? You probably rely heavily on charm, same as me. Used offensively, you can generate some loyalty among acquaintances in a bar so that they will help you in a fight. There are several men I know who told me that they would have my back. I haven’t tested their loyalty, but they are the kind of men who would do that based on their history.

    A buddy had to deal with rangers tracking him with dogs in a survival test in the military and he used nasty traps and injured several dogs and a ranger. When he turned his ass in at the end of the week, he was beaten until he was unconscious. Those rangers were pissed. lol

    Pitbulls still freak me out though.

    -1

    There are effective tactics against dogs. You can charm dogs and put fear into them or break their legs and blind them. Carry cayenne pepper to defeat trackers. A bag of salt and pepper can be used to mess with dogs or men in a fight and law enforcement won’t consider it a lethal weapon. Salt and pepper in a dog’s nose is very debilitating.

  37. Charm to a degree. Not a part of my personality to charm men though. As playdontpay alluded to, I joined a gym young and learned to defend myself properly. I was a ranked amateur heavyweight so fuck charm.😄

    So, tell me about this ‘ feinting ‘…..😂

  38. We are finally getting down to the biological conflict between men and women, and we have Rollo to thank.
    This post well defines the current problems with this conflict, and his suggestion at the summation is certainly on target:
    “Are you really willing to accept that your paternity need counts for so little ? Are you willing to accept this truth and fulfill a woman’s life strategy in spite of it because you believe it’s your moral imperative to do so ?”

    I have an additional perspective to add. At least in the US and western society, we have the existence of a rapacious government intent on staying in power. Pandering to women and their demands garners votes that exceed men’s votes. These politicians are hell bent on changing the course of nature (good luck !). Unfortunately, nature does not care. That men dominate the natural world and humankind does not deter the government from trying to weaponize women. Ultimately this will not succeed. The decrement in productivity will be the final arbiter. All sorts of historical social uproars attest to failed efforts to change the course of nature. Some of us may even perish in this foolish endeavor, but man will not.
    Men have made the modern world to accommodate women, but that is not necessarily a permanent state of affairs. Not if, but when the grid goes down, it will be 1850 again. The strong and independent woman of today’s fantasy will be long gone too.
    No one has repealed the Law of Unintended Consequences, least of all the likes of AOC and her ilk.
    There is no future in trying to fool mother nature; father time rules.

  39. Existential Fear will always be there. In a healthy dose it is good for survival, as it kicks your ass and forces you to get smarter and stronger. But it can never be eliminated.

    So you fear “a stronger man or a gang of men” will cause you harm. Some will suggest, “just lift bro, learn MMA bro!”. You go ahead and do that. Then you will fear someone will knife you or shoot you with a pistol, and you start carrying a pistol. Then you fear what if someone shows up with a semi-automatic, what if the Police try to get you, what if the government comes for your guns and imposes martial Law, what if the powers that be NUKE the population, what if they use HAARP, what if there are Solar Flares and we all toast ….. and on and on? Where does your Existential fear end?

    By all means go ahead and lift, learn MMA, carry a gun …. But it will not “guarantee” anything.

    Skinny guys who can’t squat a fly bang girls all day everyday all around the world. All this larping about this and that is of no use to anyone. As long as you have a healthy BMI / low body fat percentage, dress well and have decent GAME anything is possible.

    When was the last time a girl offered you sex “only if” you crush skulls of 10 men? If any girl tries to shit test you by getting you into a physical confrontation with other men, then the best thing to do is to walk away. Trust me, it is not worth putting yourself in harms way for 10 minutes of sticky friction. There are better ways to get sex.

  40. I’d like to see a the curve with one side of the spectrum being a single mother whose husband of 5 years died while she was 8 months pregnant

    That isn’t a single mum, that’s a widow.

  41. Incubus

    The kind of mental gymnastics you point out is a symptom of a disorder of some kind.

    Existential fear need not be permanent, nor does it require monumental ongoing efforts to blunt it’s impacts upon your thinking.

    Larp. I live in a city where gunplay isn’t unheard of nor out of place. Yet, I do not take to the streets armed, nor do I waste effort considering ” what if I get shot? “.

    Amazingly, I’ve not been shot. Not once. Imagine that.

    It’s not about women, or fucking, or crushing skulls. That’s part of the disorder.

    It’s about controlling your fear to the point that it’s no longer any kind of guiding factor. If a man wants comfort and peace of mind, nothing acheives this more than enduring discomfort and lack of peace, and overcoming these things.

    When you don’t fear women, you can fuck more women, and they will adore you.😁

    …. And you won’t ever say to yourself ” what if a guy has a samurai sword? “.

    Fact: nobody is good to live forever, and most people won’t did when they think they should.

  42. Whether the existential fear is relevant to any individual man is very dependent on his own life, goals, mental point of origin, and how much he has his own life in order, when it comes to progeny (or not). If you have all of this together, you have no existential fear — you either have progeny, and the situation is in hand, and your fear of cuckolding is virtually zero, or you have chosen not to have progeny, in which case your fear of cuckolding is also virtually zero.

    If you’re the kind of man who doesn’t have all of this together, then you already have a lot of problems in your life, whether you are aware of them or not, and one of them is that you are at a massively increased risk of being cuckolded. So it really is your choice — you can have your life together and reduce your risk to a negligible level, or you can choose to live in the fear of cuckolding (and choosing to willfully ignore the fear is still a form of choosing to live with said fear). Your life, your call.

    As for the system, and the 30,000 foot issues, etc. — not much to be done about that. That stuff will do what it does, and you can’t change it. What you can do is own your life and, to the extent you are so inclined and can make a difference, help other men who are willing to do so own their own lives. The rest of it is outside your control and irrelevant other than as knowledge about the existing environment so that you can own your own life more effectively.

  43. With DNA paternity testing, men don’t need the relative security of monogamous marriage and virgins to ensure paternity. Just refuse to be a “father” until proven to be so. Recently in Georgia (USA), a bill was introduced, seemingly as a jab against abortion, but it would require paternity testing upon pregnancy with the thought of collecting child support even in the womb. As far as child support is concerned being a paternal father is not often a requirement for a woman to go after you for child support. If you are in the role of father or sign the birth certificate they will go after you.

  44. With the abandonment of male sexual control in favor of female sexual control it seems to me that the damage (happiness, satisfaction, stable marriage, family formation, etc) is done long before the question of outcome (paternity fear for men and hypergamy fear for women) arises, but via the very the pursuit of sex itself.

    IMO, for paternity to be secure a man must first believe that he “owns” his womans sexuality.

    To the extent her sexuality pre-dates him – and is eh hem, ‘exposed’ to the SMV, his notion of ownership is weakened, diluted.

    The longer the exposure, the weaker the bond. The weaker the bond, aka his confidence in owning her sexuality, the more difficult it will be to generate paternal confidence down the timeline.

    Correct me if Im wrong, but both the ‘jealous’ response to other men (past/real and future/imagined) and the slut repulse are a kind of proxy for that drive to ensure paternity (aka fear).

    Our hindbrain is not so good at differentiating between the proxy events, the runway, from actual breeding, taking flight.

    So these innate responses are activated along the way. This is the existential quality; it exists even though it may be distant or unrelated to the actual desire to procreate.

    The challenge is: how long is the way, what happens to that paternal confidence when these responses are invalidated – even demonized, and how does this undermine a mans ability to quell the fear aven after securing a mate?

    When female sexual primacy (a) forbids male ownership of her sexuality entirely even in ‘marriage’; (b) gaslights his innate response of such such into weakness (insecurity, jealousy, possessiveness); and (c) prolongs the threat state of smv exposure, high female N and amped up hypergamy, the “ask” put on men to sublimate their paternal fear approaches absurdity.

    Seems to me that this sbsurdity breeds two polarities. One in which the fear becomes rigid and compartmentalized, eg men who embrace ZFG and accept that he owns nothing aka “not mine just my turn”.

    And one in which the fear is transmutated, maleable, submitting to the femcentric order. Eg men who embrace the cuck and/or seek female approved role of beta provider.

    Perhaps there is a continuum. IDK. But for me this issue permeates everything about the red pill. In practice it continues to bifurcate into those two paths with not much in between.

    For women, unbridled hypergamy creates not just fear of false alpha seed, but along the way (years on the carousel) the paradox of choice erodes future confidence.

    Similarly, men’s ability to rise above his innate fear of paternity fraud is battered – and I’d argue often broken by the time he holds enough value to satisfy his own desire in mate choice and to put a cap – however tenuous, on her existential fear.

    So yeah, your questions at the end…

  45. Yes, it IS about banging girls. This is why we are here. This is what this site is for. If you take sex out of the equation, why do you even need frame, MPoO in these times when you can just be a good obedient Beta Male, be celibate, spend weekends at Women’s March, listen to sounds of nature and watch the sunset.

    “Everything we do is about SEX, except SEX. SEX is about POWER”

    Nobody comes to this site to discover ZEN. They are here because they are not banging enough, or have banged the wrong girl, or want to bang hotter girls.

  46. I disagree, but it’s lunchtime.

    There are pua sites for men who are strictly concerned with banging more. This site is about understanding.

    Not just banging.

    You need a strong frame for life, not just sex.

  47. lol thank you @incubus

    Everything girls do is because they want to maximize their chances of landing the highest possible mate(s).

    But whenever do anything to improve our chances of banging hotties (whether it’s dressing a certain way, lifting weights, choice of cologne, the way you behave around people etc.) its met with “NO ITS NOT ABOUT THEM!!11! DO IT FOR YOURSELF!!” lol

  48. PUA websites are filled with con artists who peddle the same old “Don’t fear, just be confident” woo woo, jump up and down, transcendental lunacy.

    Yes, I agree with you that this site of for “understanding”. But “what” are we trying to understand is where we disagree.

    Based on your age, I understand you have been there and done that. And you now want to play YODA in your spare time. Hence, you talk about higher thinking, control your desires, blah blah. Lowered testosterone level due to ageing does that, I get it.

    You don’t need frame for life. If living is the only end goal (and not sex), why do we chase success, why do we strive for competence, why do we compete, why do we take the path of self improvement. Why not be a monk?

    You need to go back and read Year 1 material again to recollect what we are trying to understand here.

  49. “…anything that serves women’s sexual strategy is always deemed to be “in the best interests of the child.” The interests of children has become the shield of what is really the interests of women’s sexual strategy.”

    This is exact same dynamic I have noted in marriages. Amazing how the 1:1 is playing out at a societal level. Men cede tremendous power after the birth of a child, bec society has gone from the old show “Father knows best” to men are clueless, ESPECIALLY when it comes to children. So since mom makes the rules and knows best about the children, she expertly and intuitively uses the children to simply get what SHE wants in all sorts of minor disagreements. FOGS (Fear, Obligation, Guilt and Shame) is generally the weapon of choice.

    The hierarchy is portrayed by women to look like this, kids come first, and we are equal:
    Kids -> Mom and Dad (equal)

    But in reality it is this:
    Mom -> Kids -> Man

    And the excuse is the same. Women know best when it comes to kids, so they get to make all the rules.

  50. Hopeless, futile…

    Truly effective “mentoring” can only occur with real fathers. There are a number of pathetic weaklings who sanctimoniously masturbate their egos and attempt to play white knight as they lie to themselves and the world claiming to “really care about” or “will raise the other mans kid like its their own”. But there is no substitute for a biological father protecting, providing for, loving and raising his own. “Real” fathers, “alpha” fathers establish and defend paternity driven by an innate compulsion to do so….including fighting to the death of those who threaten it (where laws do, or do not, restrain them). This is natural instinct and the source of basic desire and sometimes anger that should not be repressed or denied. The morphology of western culture represses paternity, socially rendering it effectively extinct. Western culture (primarily a certain Anglo Saxon sub set of it) has attempted to substitute paternity with bullshit fake destructive surrogates such as “strong” women, the government, “free love”, certain religious pretenses, feminism, commune AND….. “the red pill”, the “manosphere” and… blogs like The Rational Male. ALL of these substitutions are frivolous and superfluous, distorting and delusional and only ultimately serve to further repress paternity. This repression of paternity will be responded to in some very interesting ways, terrifying to some and joyous to others. Paternity cannot be actually extinguished because it is so ingrained, innately fundamentally established and interwoven into the reality of dimorphic life, that life itself would have to be destroyed to extinguish paternity. The species would have to go extinct.

    The Red Pill, The Rational Male, manosphere, etc. may be noble attempts to reconcile for the mirage of paternity extinction and/or the result of parasitic con artists and opportunists feeding off the cultural carcass of paternity. But, unequivocally, there is absolutely no possible way the manosphere, RP, RM, etc. can ever come close to achieving what fatherhood and paternity once did before its repression. At best they are nothing more than pathetic, impotent attempts to simulate shadows of paternity. At worst they are insidious reactions to frustration and lack of initiative, generating more frustration and confusion and providing excuses for lack of initiative or con games orchestrated by parasites feeding on mass ignorance.

  51. I don’t believe this site is only about banging girls. Sure, it’s part of it but I’m not here for that.

    I got screwed in a divorce and I don’t want my son to go the same way. And the best way forward is to know what I’m dealing with. Knowledge is power. And for me, Rollo’s books and essays are the clearest explanations of how sexual dynamics between men and women actually work that I’ve ever read. Ever. His outline of female hypergamy and how it works was an absolute eye-opener for me, and the impact that’s had in my life goes way beyond simply getting laid.

    Okay, got that off my chest! I believe now the custom is for my T-count to be questioned and to be told I don’t lift weights enough. Knock yourself out.

  52. I actually DNA tested my kids a couple years ago and told my BPD/NPD wife at the time that I was doing it and asked her if there was anything I should know before the results came back. Talk about a thermonuclear feminine explosion of pure crazy! How dare I not trust her!! HAHA, LOL. Talk about solipsism!

    They were mine, but I booted her ass anyway a year later. It was the hardest thing I ever did extracting myself from her. Like Rollo, I still have occasional nightmares, but good riddance, damn good! It was expensive but I didn’t get zeroed out and it was done my initiative. Managed to get 50/50 custody even.

  53. @ex-cartoonist:

    “I got screwed in a divorce….”

    You banged the wrong girl. That is why you are here. And now you are trying to understand how your son can avoid your mistakes and bang the right one(s).

  54. Blax, you’re wrong, wrong, WRONG! Life is all about banging hot gurlzzzz! If you don’t think that way you have low T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Damn, gotta quit talking like a girl.

  55. TRM is not only about getting laid.
    It’s also about dealing with women who you aren’t sleeping with,
    Like your mom.
    Like your mom-in-law.
    And that faggot who keeps telling you to buy your wife roses on Valentines Day.

  56. “Damn, gotta quit talking like a girl.”

    Says the Gramps who is down at the Salsa Club every weekend trying to cop a feel of young girls in the name of dancing.

    “Nah, I am there just for the wine and music” … yeah right. Why not volunteer at the Soup Kitchen?

    PS: Nothing wrong with having desire for younger women, just need to stop larping about “higher purpose”, “having a frame for life”.

  57. “Keep charging windmills J and Incubus. Its entertaining for us low T geriatrics.”

    Sure, will keep ’em spinning, until low T geriatrics stop larping about “frame for life” and shaming younger men for their desires to bang hotties.

  58. “Based on your age, I understand you have been there and done that. And you now want to play YODA in your spare time. Hence, you talk about higher thinking, control your desires, blah blah. Lowered testosterone level due to ageing does that, I get it.’

    Lol.

    Why would you say that?

    Explain please. ( last test reading was 1100. Down 100, so you might have a point…)

    You don’t need frame for life. If living is the only end goal (and not sex), why do we chase success, why do we strive for competence, why do we compete, why do we take the path of self improvement. Why not be a monk?

    So, let me get this straight – you’re advocating being successful in order to get laid/chicks? That’s your mindset? Here?

    Anybody else want to chime in?

    “You need to go back and read Year 1 material again to recollect what we are trying to understand here.

    Oookkkaaayyyy……

  59. Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.

    Alexander Hamilton

    Call it ” higher purpose ” or whatever you’d like, but it changes nothing. I don’t shame men’s desires, but I don’t advocate uncontrolled harmful expression of those desires either.

    Guys like money too, but I don’t think they should rob and steal and kill to get it. That’s not a ” higher purpose “. That’s using your brain as more than a placeholder in your skull.

  60. @j: “Gotta assume raising only daughters factors into this as well”

    Sure does.

    I get it, he has daughters. He wants men to be “better Beta Males”, so that his daughters do not end up alone when the carousel stops.

    “It is not about banging hotties, it is about frame for life”. He can go tell that to the younger Blax when he was sarging around humping anything in sight.

    He would be more comfortable on the JBP forums building “better Betas”. I feel sad for the guys he is “mentoring”.

  61. ” I get it, he has daughters. He wants men to be “better Beta Males”, so that his daughters do not end up alone when the carousel stops.

    You sound awfully foolish right now.

    “It is not about banging hotties, it is about frame for life”. He can go tell that to the younger Blax when he was sarging around humping anything in sight.”

    Younger Blax had frame. I also never banged everything in sight. Wasn’t interested in that. I didn’t ” sarge ” or any other pua descriptor. I understood what you evidently still don’t at a much younger age.

    But hey, I have no problem with you living your life as you see fit. Some of the young men I mentor that you feel sorry for are Gang members who’d shoot you in the head and then go get a sandwich. Excuse me if I try to get them to take a ” higher purpose ” in life and think a bit instead of just doing whatever they feeeellll like doing.

    You have no clue.

    It’s abundantly clear.

    Your inadequacies are not universal.

  62. “Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.”

    What did you stand for when you were younger? You did not care. You banged and humped anything and everything in your sight.

    Did you have a “higher purpose”? What was it? Did you achieve your “higher purpose”?

    You had a good Grand Father who was your mentor, yet you end up working at a Strip Club as a bouncer seeing girls get pimped out and banging them on the side. Is that what you call “higher purpose”?

    Why shame J here on a daily basis if he wants to bang HB 8 or HB 9 or HB 9999?

    PS: I don’t judge you for working at a Strip Club or banging girls … more power to you. Just the larping of “higher purpose” needs to stop.

  63. masculine sigh *

    What did you stand for when you were younger? You did not care. You banged and humped anything and everything in your sight.

    At no point in my life did I ever ” not care ” ( assuming I know what you mean by that ). Again, I did not ” hump everything in sight “/ That was never any kind of goal. I see that as mostly ridiculous.

    Did you have a “higher purpose”? What was it? Did you achieve your “higher purpose”?

    My ” higher purpose ” was the same then as it is right now – to gain understanding and use it to master my domain and circumstance. I’ve never, ever just been a leaf blowing in the wind. I establish what’s good and right for me in my life, and then I stick by that.

    You had a good Grand Father who was your mentor, yet you end up working at a Strip Club as a bouncer seeing girls get pimped out and banging them on the side. Is that what you call “higher purpose”?

    My father was my mentor. My male family members mentored me also. Lotsa men.

    I worked at a strip club because I got paid 500 bucks a night to do so, in cash. I never saw anyone pimped out…where are you getting this from? I worked at a strip club even while I was married, and never banged anybody ” on the side “. I don’t do ” on the side “. I started having sex with strippers after I was divorced.

    Lotta assumptions Incubus. I don’t fit that mold that you are trying to rally support for.

  64. “Some of the young men I mentor that you feel sorry for are Gang members who’d shoot you in the head and then go get a sandwich.”

    They will continue to kill each other and you will still eat your sandwitch. That is the path they have chosen to get them “dollas, $bling bling$, fame and hoes”. Your larping of “higher purpose” is not going to get their dick wet or stop them from killing each other.

    I have been reading J’s comments for a long time. He seems to be a guy who has his shit together and is achieving what he wants. He seems happy and if he wants to share his ideas on his forum, others can agree with him or agree to disagree. Why is he ridiculed and shamed on a daily basis? He is not a gang banger, he does not need your “mentoring”.

    I am not defending J, he does a good job of defending his opinion. He has a lot more patience with you lot than I have.

    But I am tired of seeing the same old trite in the comments section under every damn post for the last 18 months. This is the reason I stopped reading the comments.

    The comments section stinks like a public park occupied by the same old homeless drunks who throw stones at every passer by. The place is in immediate need of Gentrification.

    It is ironic that the most sane commenter on this forum now is Rugby. He shares cilps and links to articles without ridiculing other people.

  65. O/T

    There’s a reason that the strippers in the club averaged a thousand dollars a night. There’s a reason that Fridays and Saturdays were Standing Room Only. There’s a reason that guys tend to ” make it rain ” in the club.

    It’s probably a great time for them. No hate at all.

    There’s reasons why repeatedly, I’ve had to back guys away from strippers because 1) they spent their rent money on her, and 2) He’s really got feelings for her and just knows she has feelings for him too.

    There’s a reason why none of that was who I was or what I wanted. My money stays in my wallet.

    Banging them didn’t cost me one red cent.

  66. “Okay. You have all the answers ( pussy, feels )”

    Projection much!

    Who is here on a daily basis giving unsolicited advise and posting incessantly like a bot?

    I never have and still do not claim to “have all the answers”.

    But your comment history proves otherwise.

  67. @ Incubus

    “You banged the wrong girl. That is why you are here. And now you are trying to understand how your son can avoid your mistakes and bang the right one(s).”

    No. That’s not what I said.

  68. https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/16080/gender2a.png

    Back to the OP again, but tying into the more recent commentary.

    Question for younger dudes ( Younger=less than 40 years old ), do you have a sense of existential fear about family/children, or is it something that’s just never on your radar at all?

    Do you think it’s something worth considering ( the fear part ) to attempt to figure out ways to eliminate it?

    Do you think these fears can be ever be mastered?

    Do you think beyond today and plan for what you’d like in the future? Do you know how to get it?

    … will you listen to men that have gotten it already?

    Lmao, okay scratch that last one.

    I don’t think many young guys even think about these things very much, and this will only speed the destruction of masculinity and bolster the feminine state. Am I far off?

  69. And the excuse is the same. Women know best when it comes to kids, so they get to make all the rules.

    Hey there — welcome.

    On that quote, they often are open enough to just come out and say “in most cases the best interest of the child is equal to the best interest of the child’s mother, and men just need to realize and accept that”. I remember reading that in some editorial in a Time magazine at a doctor’s office around 15 or so years ago. It isn’t new, really — “womenandchildren” is a joint concept, and not only in women’s heads — in many men’s heads, too.

  70. Blax, girls are so different today, you know…you can’t ever trust them not to cheat on you…not like girls in the olden days, because…get ready for it…Not All Women Are Like That!

    There have been surveys done…(believe them or don’t, idc)…which show that women who were born in the ’40s were no more likely to be virgins when they married than women born in the ’90s. There’s no question that women’s admitted notch count has been rising through the years.

    Hasn’t changed since I was a young boy

    …couple of months ago…ta-dum

  71. J

    Bear with me for a second because I’m serious ( before Incubus bashes me for unsolicited advice and having low T )

    Where do you see yourself in 10-20 years, and how do you plan to get there?

    Do you think the ideals of a young boy will help you?

    Not trying to be funny, just asking.

  72. Rubgy, as much as I respect you for contributions here, I blame you for turning this site into a JBP “Traditional Mascilinity” cult by posting a million JBP videos. Congrats, you won.

    Not long before were see larping on Jungian philosophy soon.

    Those who burned down others houses and soaked in the warmth from the fires, pilaged others seed for their pleasure and greed, are now scared when the fires have reached their own house. Now they call for restraint, peace, tradtional masucilinity and want younger men to have a vision, a long term plan …. in short, be a better beta, Man Up and marry the whores and yes pay your taxes so that these fucking boomers can get their pension and retire in peace.

    I got many things wrong in life, but one thing I got right all along was “to never listen to sermons from a pimp at the whorehouse”.

  73. mas·cu·lin·i·ty

    /ˌmaskyəˈlinədē/
    noun
    noun: masculinity; plural noun: masculinities

    qualities or attributes regarded as characteristic of men.
    “handsome, muscled, and driven, he’s a prime example of masculinity”

    synonyms: virility, manliness, maleness, vigor, strength, muscularity, ruggedness, toughness, robustness

  74. “When a man commits to parental investment with a woman he takes on sunk cost risks. The time he spends investing himself committed to one woman and the children they produce comes at the cost of reproductive opportunities with other women.”

    Only the most stupid fail to research first and THEN invest wisely.

    The forgoing quoted statement made by “Rollo” can be true only if the man is dissatisfied with the payout of his investment, i.e. with the woman who givs birth to his children and the children themselves. Most men naturally want to ensure the survivability and success of their children. His resources and time are limited. A wise man knows he is not a toy, that he has limits and that time is short. Failure is most often the result of stupidity and willful ignorance. The “patriarchy” is instinct, otherwise, most men would abandon their wives and children. Life is brief and the challenges of paternity are too significant to allow more than a limited amount of “infidelity”. There isn’t much time for “fooling around”. You may argue that most men would except that “social norms” like monogamy are mitigating, or that most men are so weak that such social norms are necessary to prop up success for the majority, but you would be lying.
    The fact is most men DO NOT want to, and DO NOT abandon their wives and children in exchange for whores and sluts.

    “….if a man is invested in one woman it limits him from seeking other (potentially better) reproductive opportunities.”

    So essentially here is a bazar self contradiction of sorts…because…as you say
    “him from seeking other (potentially better) reproductive opportunities” means you believe HE is seeking other (potentially better) reproductive opportunities… which can mean only one thing… YOU believe that HE (the male) is hypergamous…. at least as hypergamous as the female. You may as well reverse, or interchange at will, superman with super woman and the slut with a “beta” in the introductory meme of your last post.

    The truth is that sluts are like betas. The slut puts herself in a never ending self perpetuating downward spiral by attracting many “fuck buddies” with free poorly vetted access to her sexuality. Men are instinctively repulsed by sluts. Some will use sluts for releasing sexual tension if they cannot relieve the tension in a pair bond (because they are unable to form or maintain a pair bond…. because they are too undesirable by higher SMV women). But as most of us have experienced, the slut very quickly looses her appeal and men move on to seek something more “challenging” which really means men are looking for a woman more trustworthy regarding paternity. “She is not the marrying kind” means she cannot be trusted to help guarantee his paternity (and most often maternity). The slut is unfit for motherhood, therefore ultimately rejected. So, the slut continues her slutty cycle in hopes of finding better and best. She chooses to be a slut ignoring better alternatives. Quickly she becomes “rode hard and put up wet” both physically and psychologically. The physical and behavioral manifestations are unmistakable. But then along comes Don Quixote and chivalry (slut worship) to “rescue” the slut and of course feminism, birth control and abortion (all insidious and severely bizarre) are there to prop up this quite unnatural precarious phenomena.

    The chivalrous white knight quixotic weakling is the male reciprocal of the female sexual slut. He isn’t whoring out his dick like the slut whores out her pussy. That would only work in a universe of actual egalitarian equality. Such a universe is imaginary and, yes I agree that to entertain such an image of the universe is in fact insane. The universe NEVER reconciles “same for same”. The reactions are OPPOSITE and equal, NEVER “equal” and equal. So the weakling male, like the slut has no choice but to whore out his “niceties” and/or feigned alpha pose, follow all the rules as impeccably and neurotically as possible, always doing the “right thing” in hopes of “being Mr. Right” which includes moronically following all the fashions whether they be wearing millennial beards and buns or reading certain blogs or neurotically “connecting the dots” or joining MGTOW or voting a particular way only because the sluts, weaklings and con artists on TV and antisocial media say to…

    And so, HE puts himself on a never ending self perpetuating downward spiral by trying to attract his special snowflake out of every slut that crosses his path (whether she be BPD or not). Over and over he raises his “N” count but never “finds” HER and ends up falling to the bottom just like the slut. It is little wonder that such weaklings end up like Job in the Bible. Suck it up and eat your slut, it’s your destiny, your fate. So that is where such self disrespecting weaklings end up, at the bottom with the other bottom feeders, the sluts. This is apparently extremely frustrating for both.

    In this era of post modern puritanism (sexual repression) and post modern chivalry it should be obvious by now that the “red pill” itself is just another attempt to “save MANkind”. Is it not an attempt to “right” a “wrong” for “MANkind”? Is it not just a new metamorphosis of “how to be Mr. Right”, a most recent evolution of mass neurosis? What is it really other than the newest quixotic hopeless endeavor to “save” humanity from itself? Is it not a paradigm that ultimately seduces men into “believing” it provides the “correct” “truth” about how to be better or “real” or “alpha” men in order to become more successful with women?

  75. Thanks for another article Rollo.

    Interesting how you guys downvote Incubus and somehow think I’m beta, yet we have a much fuller grasp of what it truly means to be alpha vs beta.

    Alpha: lots of sex, good relationships, you know your kids are yours
    Beta: little sex, poor relationships, you have no fucking clue if the kids are yours OR you willingly raise another man’s kids (the essence of beta distilled)
    Omega: none of this is worth it in the first place (mgtow, seek god or your own activities, etc.)

    Simple as that guys. Get as much sex as you can and use protection. When you want to have kids with a high quality woman, make sure she does as well and make sure you are not raising another man’s kids. Paternity test if available. Don’t date single mothers with kids who need to be raised.

    Yeah, I know, you protest. It’s not that simple! Just listen to my experience!

    My response to you: shut the fuck up and get out. We younger men are starting to know the score and act appropriately. We don’t need the advice of tired old boomer betas, the most cucked generation of males in history.

  76. Apparently this hack wants everyone to think he’s “Rollo Tomassi”. The dude, blatantly plagiarizes my work and presents it as his own. There are some edits in this where it seems he’s reading from my book:

  77. @Rollo: Guess who else is plagerizing your work? Only the other 90 percent of the Manosphere. They call you the “God Father of the Manosphere” for a reason.

  78. “they hate them so much that they would prefer to work soul destroying jobs to support themselves than attach themselves to a Beta provider that wants to fuck them and impregnate them with his shitty beta genetics”

    If they were were really ruthless they would marry a beta they feel zero desire for, fully intending to deny him sex, cuck him then divorce him. Of course such a pattern is common, but women don’t go into marriage intending to do this, and women will only marry betas they feel at least summon a little bit of desire for at the start. Women must still have some respect for the traditional institute of marriage.

    I wonder if this push towards poly relationships is so that women can remove all guilt from marrying a beta they feel little or no desire for, who they can just use for his resources without having to provide sex or provide him children of his own.

  79. This is a bit off-topic, but I can’t resist. I re-watched Die Hard last night. I’ve seen that movie over a dozen times, but this time after reading ‘The Rational Male’ I was gobsmacked at the Beta triumphs over the Alpha content of the film.

    Hans Gruber is a Beta in charge of a team of mostly Alphas. The other notable Beta is the computer geek—the message is clear: Beta equals brainy; Alpha equals muscle. John McClane is also a Beta. Okay, Bruce Willis’ later movie image was arguably Alpha, but at the time of Die Hard he was the guy from Moonlighting and the reviews made a lot of having an ‘ordinary guy’ as an action hero. Good cop Reg was also a Beta, but the SWAT team and FBI guys were Alphas whose bravado and predictability generally fucked things up.

    And there were so many moments when this was made explicit, although I didn’t notice them until reading TRM: Out-of-control Alpha terrorist Karl who makes bad decision after bad decision, and who is so thick he has to have his orders translated. (‘Shoot the glass!’) The SWAT team running in and Bruce Willis banging the window shouting, ‘No! No! You macho assholes!’ And, most notably of all, the scene where McClane asks Reg to give his wife a message: That he should have listened to her and supported her more (i.e. given up his NY job and moved to L.A. when she got promotion) and that ‘she was the best thing to happen to a bum like me’. My jaw was on the floor.

    What gets me is that I’ve seen this film so many times and yet I never even noticed this before. It makes me wonder how much else I’ve absorbed. You did an earlier post on Star Wars – the Force Awakens and how the film rewrote the whole mythos to promote the Female Imperative. But this rewriting of male heroic stories to promote women is fairly recent, whereas the Beta triumphs over the Alpha seems to go back further. And I’m wondering whether it acts as a necessary first step—to legitimise the Beta Male as the masculine ideal before the Feminine Imperative can take over.

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