The Marriage Game

As a few of my readers know my daughter is presently a sophomore at college. Every time she reaches a new milestone in her life I have a tendency to mentally go back in time in my own life and consider how utterly different her experiences are in comparison to my own. At 19 the thought of being as organized and honestly well off as she is in life now would never have occurred to me. For a very brief moment in my life back then I’d kept a journal of what it was I was doing and thinking at the time. My first ‘real’ girlfriend had given me this blank journal (she was one of those girls who wrote diaries) to write my thoughts in and being the Beta I was then most of it was filled with my Blue Pill frustration with girls. She’d gifted me this journal, I found out later, as an effort to absolve her of all the guilt she knew was coming her way for having cheated on me and deciding that, at 18 herself, she wanted to move on into her Party Years without the baggage of a dutiful Beta who thought he was going to marry her.

This was 1988 and the then 19 year old Rollo Tomassi was very much a typical Blue Pill Beta. I sometimes read back through the dozen or so pages I actually took the time to write back then to remind myself how I thought back then. I was very much and idealistic Beta back then, but I had several other friends who subscribed to the same Blue Pill delusions; and now with hindsight I realize this phase in a Beta’s life is one that was around long before and long after I went through it. This was the ‘Break Phase’ I outline in Preventive Medicine.

As it turned out, the girl who I predictably developed ONEitis for, the first girl to spread her legs for me (‘enthusiastically’), the girl I thought had to be “quality” if she appreciated a guy like me, was every bit the ‘play the field’ skank I would’ve never called her because it was what a “typical male” would say about her. At one point I had thought I’d want to marry her. My Blue Pill conditioning had taught me it would be the right, “supportive” thing to do; marry her and support her ambitions and goals (it’s what good Blue Pill boys ought to do) at the sacrifice of my own. And as directionless as I was then, that was an easy decision to make.

My daughter recently informed me that her boyfriend’s best friend just proposed to his girlfriend at 19. Both this guy and his girlfriend are also sophomores at the same school and this is what triggered the reminiscing for me. At 49, and having lived the life I have and the experiences I use on this blog today, I’m very glad my first girlfriend dumped me. That’s hard to say sometimes, particularly when I think back on the pit of misery years I spent with the BPD girlfriend I’d gotten involved with later, but I’m thankful for those bad experiences as much as the good ones. So, it’s really difficult for me to tell my daughter’s friend “oh, congratulations”.

It’s very difficult for me to endorse anyone getting married at so early an age these days or when I was 19. Modern marriage is a menagerie of horrors for today’s men. People say, “Rollo you’re married, how come you’re so hard on marriage?” It’s either that or they presume my marriage is a shit show and I’m venting like a petulant boy. When I’m critical of marriage it’s in spite of my own (very happy for 21 years) marriage. But I cannot condone it for men today – not in its present state. Hardline MGTOWs and PUAs agree on one thing, if you ever consider marriage you’re Blue Pill. I’ve written in many prior posts that I don’t necessarily agree with that assessment, but I do understand it. The risks today far outweigh the rewards, but still there are men who, even with Red Pill awareness, will still take it on.

There’s a running debate I have going on with Hunter Drew (The Family Alpha) and Tanner Guzy (Masculine Style) about how marriage is a lifestyle decision, and depending on how informed a man is about the risks he assumes and when he decides to get married, this decision is literally a question of life or death for that guy. Both these guys married early in life, both have kids, and both will have far different experiences than myself in this respect. Both of them and myself have assumed the risks and sacrifices this entails. I’m fully aware that my wife can detonate the marriage at any time. I’m sure both Hunter and Tanner are well aware that their wives also have the right to have them removed from their home and take their children away from them for any reason. But we’re all married, and as I wrote in Surrender, we have all willingly put ourselves in the most vulnerable position a man can be in; we’ve bet our lives, livelihoods and the future health and happiness of our kids and families on what today is the ultimate suckers bet for a man. And what’s worse, we cannot ever expect women or our wives to ever relate with just how dangerous a position we willingly put ourselves in.

So I’m thinking about all of this after my daughter tells me about this 19 year old kid proposing to his girlfriend. Statistically his marriage will end before he’s 28. I would also bet that, like myself at 19, he’s making a decision that will affect him and his fiancé’s based on Blue Pill idealism – an idealism that’s informed by the Feminine Imperative and delusions of egalitarian equalism. Naturally I can’t possibly think this is a good idea. If I were this boy’s father I’d strongly advise against it, but there are others in the manosphere who would encourage this.

“Grown” Men

There’s an old saying that goes “marriage is our last, best chance for growing up”. I also disagree with this from the perspective of today’s version of marriage, but I understand how homey platitudes like this are appealing to a social order of men who it seems don’t want to grow up. It’s becoming a new way of AMOGing (particularly in religious circles); if you’ve got your shit together enough to see the wisdom in being married and starting a family you’re a “better man” than the ‘boys’ who they believe want to extend their adolescence. It’s really nothing new.

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

This is one half of strategic pluralism theory for men. Men who invest themselves in the long term aspect will always look for ways to validate their inability or unwillingness to pursue multiple partners. It’s easy to think that these men make their necessity a virtue, and that may or may not be the case, but what’s undeniable is that investing themselves in a one-mate strategy necessarily selects them out of experiences with women that would otherwise aid them in vetting a woman as a good long term prospect. The Blue Pill has always subjugated men to be predisposed to the one-mate investment strategy while simultaneously encouraging women to adopt a multiple mate strategy. That may seem counterintuitive, but when we look at the Sheryl Sandberg plan for Hypergamy we can see that what they believe is prudence is having a large selection of potential husbands from which to choose.

In Trad-Con manosphere thinking it seems like conventional wisdom to encourage men and women to marry younger. Look at where we’re at today; women forestall marriage – ostensibly to further a career, but really to falsely extend their Hypergamous decision making years – until their Epiphany Phase (29-31) or even beyond by freezing their eggs. Men take much more time to mature into their peak SMV potential, but what’s the common complaint? These men aren’t “being men” by preparing themselves for a life of family and marriage. They aren’t catering their lives’ decisions to fulfill women’s sexual strategy, and really what incentive do they have to when women are following the Sandbergian path of Hypergamy? Men and women marry later and later – if at all. Women unmarried by the time they’re 34-35 are likely to never marry in their lives.

Marrying Early

So it seems like wisdom to tell this kid, “good on you”, in spite of all the odds staked against him and despite the Blue Pill idealistic delusions that are prompting him to propose. Trad-Cons love the idea of a return to something resembling “traditional values” in order to save western culture from itself, but it’s important to remember that those old books values are really just leverage in a new books world.

Marrying early, as I said, is usually the result of Blue Pill naiveté. Both young men and women are still ignorant of who they are or who they have a potential to become. I see a lot of early-marrieds originating in religious circles because this is their only means to “legitimate” sex, but there are the guys who see marrying early a better way to ensure ‘permanent’ sex for themselves. In some respects it’s almost a blessing that women at this age are so anti-marriage – most young men on the investment side of strategic pluralism are far too willing to kill their own dreams to accommodate their investment.

Marriages that begin between 20-24 are almost 39% more likely to end in divorce. A lot of this, I speculate, is due to women feeling like they need to make up for missing out. The idealism of young Blue Pill men marrying early has one big obstacle and that’s the influence of Hypergamy on their wives. In Preventive Medicine I made the case that no matter the woman’s choices she makes or has made for her in life, it will not negate Hypergamy’s influence on her. Yes, that influence can be mitigated culturally (laughable in western societies) or personally, but it doesn’t remove the evolved influence. By the time that 20 year old mother and wife is 30, she’s had ten years to develop the resentment of her choice by living vicariously through her single girlfriends’ experiences. The context may change, but Hypergamy doesn’t.

Early marriage limits a man’s potential. Trad-Cons will fight me on this one, but the responsibilities of marriage and parenting will necessarily limit a man from opportunities he would otherwise have were he single. Aristotle said, “The Ideal age for marriage in men is 35. The Ideal age for marriage in women is 18”, not unlike my sexual market value graph, but the reason for this is because it takes much longer for a man to establish himself as a man. The simple truth is that part of the sacrifice of being married means a man will not be able to capitalize on opportunities he would have were he single. Some opportunities may never even be made available to him because of him being married. This isn’t something most early-marrying men consider.

Men who marry early and stick it out through their peak SMV years often feel the mid-life crisis (epiphany) years much more acutely. This is kind of the man’s making up for missing out resentment a wife may feel as she becomes more and more aware that she can’t compete in the SMP for a better Hypergamous prospect. I don’t believe men have a “crisis” per se around this time, but what they do experience is a sense of introspection that’s colored by their now better capacity to understand the game they’ve been a part of with regards to women. When a man’s married well this is less of an issue, but there is a definite remorse over the “life he could’ve lived” if only he’d known better. This is an assessment of the sacrifices he’s made, how they paid off (if at all) and a sort of survey of his life up to that point.

The biggest ‘con’ to early marriage is that it’s always going to be a learn as you go prospect while trying to establish a world that a his wife of the future will want to defer herself to. This worked far better in a culture and time when women would be compelled to defer to a man’s mastery due to religion, social norms and respect. We do not live in those day anymore and women have actionable ‘outs’ of any commitment that doesn’t suit them, while men have more responsibilities to qualify themselves to suit women.

Advantages?

Early marriage has a few advantages, but all of these depend on the personal nature of the woman a man marries. That sounds kind of obvious, but if you go into a marriage with a solid Frame and a woman who expects to defer to your dominance, I think young marrieds might have a better shot at long term success. If a woman is a virgin, yes, this can be a real source of attachment for her if her husband imprints on her as solidly dominant Alpha. I always advise men not to get involved with a virgin girl if his only plan is to spin her as a plate. There is far too significant and imprinting with virgin women and sex with an Alpha man, or even a guy who seemed Alpha. This is the recipe for an Alpha Widow, but in a marriage it can make for a strong bond.

As has been mentioned countless times, the most stable and healthy way to raise children is in a committed marriage. This might be the only advantage marriage may have for a man today. In an early marriage I would think that a woman being at her sexual market value peak, combined with following her true biological clock (her prime fertility window 22-26) the odds of having happy healthy children are improved. I have a cousin who spent more than half his life building himself into a millionaire architect, but at my age (49) his children are 5 and 7. I can’t imagine living this life now. I suppose money might make it easier, but evolutionarily speaking he and I should effectively be grandfathers by now. I married at 28 and there are advantages and disadvantages to this as well, but I cannot imagine having young children at my age.

Finally, for the “well, duh” moment, it goes without saying that a young wife/mother should necessarily be playing on your team. The only possible successful prospect for a younger marriage to have any stability is if that woman understands what it is she’s sacrificing. Women likewise sacrifice their own personal potentials and later this becomes their source of resentment. The stakes are high for men, particularly if they aren’t Red Pill aware, but women too must understand her own sacrifices; I think this is the most difficult thing. Women’s solipsism, Hypergamous nature and a social order that ‘fempowers’ them to believe not only can they “have it all” but are entitled to it all makes this the bridge too far for young marriage.

In the Trad-Con sphere today there is a constant droning for personal responsibility on the part of men. There is little to none about the responsibilities of women. We’re constantly told that women are only the way they are because men have allowed it. I’ve written before that this is a cop out and an absolving of women’s complicity that mirrors what the Feminine Imperative has put forth. Women are taught not to do anything “for a man” and anything a woman does that might be expressly for a man is is conflated with subservience. Consequently we get generations of women who only indulge their natural solipsism and expect men’s sacrifices as part of the utilities. This is one of the primary reasons all marriages fail; there is no complementarity. Marriage becomes nothing but a naked exchange of resources on the part of the man and anything a woman might do ‘for’ him is frowned upon. And don’t think this is just limited to those blue haired feminists, you can find it at your church.

Women can only willingly want to please a man whose Frame is the dominant one. You’ve got to have that world established that she wants to enter and become a complementary, supportive (of you) and willing participant in. This world-building takes time. Women evolved to seek competency in men. Hypergamy cannot afford to bet all of a woman’s genetic legacy on a guy who has “potential” – they want the proven commodity. This is one reason women look for men older and taller than they are. More importantly, you need a woman who is playing on your team, not against you. And sadly this is the state of marriage promoted by the Feminine Imperative today. Egalitarianism doesn’t promote complementary cooperation, it promotes an adversarial state of competition between husband and wife.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Man, if you speak about rsd(opes) in a negative light, the defenders appear.

M Simon
6 years ago

Mitch
February 11, 2018 at 2:28 pm

I would have never married the LTR if she hadn’t been 8 1/2 months pregnant. Her being pregnant was my CHOICE. Getting married was hers.

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@rollo

Two times. Two times today I have posted how I agree with you.

Two times. Two times today I have linked to a post over a year ago where I said I agree with you on the same thing.

There are plenty of RSD pep rally videos that you wouldn’t be able to distinguish from Tony Robbins videos I can link you.

I agree!

Lol, this is my point.

M Simon
6 years ago

Pointing to specific manifestations of Christianity isn’t an argument either. Catholicism is 2,000 years old. The FI was not even invented yet – lol.

The FI is older than recorded history. It is innate. It is biological.

Sidi Carnot and Michael Faraday have been the chief enablers of the FI.

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
FoxGuy
FoxGuy
6 years ago

Rational Male is most likely a sales funnel for RSD, getting on their case here is not good for their business.

The Rational Male has the highly potential to influence their future/current customer base, a vote of no confidence for them has a potential to impact their business.

I say it again , RSD is the “Get rich quick” or “5 minute abs” of the manosphere at this point.

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
FoxGuy
FoxGuy
6 years ago

@Blaximus

I hear you on the race issue, I also figured you didn’t let it impact your day to day going ons or plans, because if you did you would not be where you are. Unfortunately, some people get stuck on it and it ends up being worse than the racism itself, although I have to say it’s not blacks necessarily whom I see this from, but rather newer high skilled immigrants.

Well played on the scorecard, as can be seen you are not above criticism and handled it properly, which was the whole point.

M Simon
6 years ago

I’m saying that horseshit, values don’t come organically
from within.

Where does the idea of ownership come from?

Two year olds. “Mine, mine.”

If you look at cultures they all have rules about murder and theft. Well before Catholics appeared on the scene.

Where universals appear I’d suggest biology as the likely cause.

Despite the Marxists, property is not a capitalist idea. It is an innate human idea. And territory seems to be innate among some kinds of animals. And “some kinds” is rather more than less.

FoxGuy
FoxGuy
6 years ago

@SJF Well played on the scorecard, I came at you with what I believe to be your biggest blindspot when it comes to discussing red pill issues, and you handled it in a fine manner in a very SJF way. One should always use the advantages given to one ,to further oneself in life, to not do so would be very stupid. You didn’t elect to be born into the UMC, but you will use it to your best advantage, I would do the same. I was born into poverty, so yeah I have a fine detector for UMC class… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Mitch: Babies, man. Babies. The FI is babies. I could swear that babies were invented more than 2000 years ago. I have watched sea turtles turned on their backs, baking to death in the tropical sun. If they are female their last desperate act as they die is to off load eggs as fast as they can. That is the FI. I have watched a 5 pound cat rip into a 50 pound german shepard and send it running in terror, because she thought it was getting too close to where her kittens were hidden. That is the FI. And… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Despite the Marxists, property is not a capitalist idea””

Every juvenile cockroach with a cookie crumb understands property.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

*singing* love me 2 times girl…love me twice today…love me 2 times baby…

M Simon
6 years ago

Think about where this came from. Today’s Machining World http://todaysmachiningworld.com/coming-apart-the-state-of-white-america/ Most striking are marriage statistics. In 1960, 94 percent of Upper Middle Class (UMC) adults were married. This declined somewhat to 83 percent in 2010. By contrast, for Working Class (WC) adults the decline is more dramatic, from 84 percent married in 1960 down to 48 percent in 2010. And amazingly, one-third of Working Class males never have married. Murray identifies two culturally and geographically isolated demographics. In Belmont, the fictional name Murray gives to the town where the top 20 percent live, divorce is low, the work ethic is… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

Charles Murray on Marriage Breakdown.

https://youtu.be/xj2jmQCpJRo

M Simon
6 years ago

How to go from being married to being a hostage.

BTW divorce is not just about the money. It is about time.

Peterson advises – marry a reasonable woman. Ha. I went for the most unreasonable woman I could stand. With the intent of teaching her to value reason. It is starting to take hold. It has taken far longer than I expected. I was young and cocky once. I may still be cocky (some). But I am rather far from young. Time.

https://youtu.be/to2kLBqlOfs

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

SJF: It’s not a crime to make it about you. I specifically made it about you. I think you came into your own lately and I respect your choices. I specifically think you didn’t have a clue where you were back then. Feel free to shout from the rooftops your opinion of me. Seriously. But you should stop the gaslighting, because others do see it, and its not attractive. then again maybe you are actually engaging in good faith, and you are simply ignorant of where your values come from. No crime in that either. But also feel free to… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

Kfg:
Babies? That’s funny but it makes no sense. The male of the species is just as driven to reproduce as the female, no?

What do you mean?

M Simon
6 years ago

PUAs are psychopathic. Re: the PUA drill – “Its all bullshit because the guys aren’t like that.” Which may explain why so many of the “greats” eventually crash and burn.

There is nothing wrong with fake it until you make it. If at the end all you have is fake? That is a sorry end.

BTW – re:what to devote your youth to? The #1 priority should be cleaning up your act. A spiritual quest.

https://youtu.be/BTbCEoXJnbg

M Simon
6 years ago

Mitch
February 11, 2018 at 10:31 pm

Females have more invested in offspring. It makes a difference.

M Simon
6 years ago

Mitch
February 11, 2018 at 10:26 pm

My values come from Imhotep. Or maybe it was some mushrooms I ate.

That you can only get them from “God” (the Church really) is propaganda. Vile propaganda. Because wars have arisen from the worship of the “wrong” god. We are having one of those in this current epoch.

If everyone believes as I do there will be peace on earth. – The cry of the power mad.

M Simon
6 years ago

Grow the F()ck up. And – plumbers have saved more lives than doctors.

https://youtu.be/zbjTQmZRNss

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@Rollo: I’m mostly defending YaReally, not RSD, but regarding RSD I think the treatment that we give Athol Kay is the best option. Recommend the good (older) material, caution people against the bad/dangerous material.

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@Rollo: I read your response to my post after I put that one up. I respect your decision (and I don’t remember even linking to an RSD video once).

And I agree with you that RSD has been targeting you more directly.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@M Simon

If everyone believes as I do there will be peace on earth. – The cry of the power mad.

A particularly mad thing to say when they’re currently killing more people that believe the same as them than people that don’t.

M Simon
6 years ago

Sun Wukong
February 12, 2018 at 12:09 am

A particularly mad thing to say when they’re currently killing more people that believe the same as them than people that don’t.

The belief is insufficiently congruent to their own. It happens.

Marxist purges are another example.

So why do the nuances in belief matter? It determines who can be a top man. And some men will fight to the death for that. Or find a way to eliminate potential rivals.

M Simon
6 years ago

Dancing as vetting:

https://youtu.be/UiFYZyRgp0U?t=6m51s

M Simon
6 years ago

Postmodernism. No truth. No meaning. No certainty. The video – about 5 minutes – says the antidote to this attitude is truth. A good grounding in STEM helps. How did we arrive here? Error no longer has the consequences it once did. Eat too much sugar and become diabetic? We have a government program distributing insulin for that. etc. Thank the STEM guys for that. They KNOW the consequences of failure. The airplane falls out of the sky. No designer wants to be the root cause of that. So they are constantly thinking of how to avoid failure. We are… Read more »

SJB
SJB
6 years ago

@Rollo: re: “The Red Pill, the Blue Pill, & Dr. Jordan Peterson – 21 Live Group Discussion” — if I recall, Anthony used the possibility of JBP at 2018 21Con for early ticket sales. I assume the invitation was rejected.

A discussion topic for your group: why do some men seek a guru and how is that seeking different from seeking a tribe.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Mitch: “The male of the species is just as driven to reproduce as the female, no?”

The male black widow spider keeps fucking even after the female bites his head off. There is a male imperative as well, but as the male relationship to babies is different from the female, so is the imperative.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . why do some men seek a guru and how is that seeking different from seeking a tribe.”

All men seek learning and heirarchy, to some degree or other. It is part of our nature as social apes. All mentors belong to a tribe, such as the tribe of the hunters guild. In some cases the tribe may be a bit on the abstract side, such as the ascetic living on a mountaintop. He might belong to the tribe of Zen Patriarchs.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

“And yeah, I do get pissed off at RSD. I think I’ve got more than enough reason to be now.” “And I will put money on it…” Here lies the difference between TRM and RSD, Robbins, Peterson. Rollo claims he’s dispassionately nonprescriptive, opening eyes only, helping men help themselves. I know better. Peterson is hype-driven academic. Though a rare bird curiosity in academic circles, he will be ivory tower accepted more than Rollo, ever. RSD is a hype-driven business with no proven input/output success record. Fuck me, if Hank, with his word-surfeit, results-paucity track record, is RSD’s chosen TRM mouthpiece… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

@ Mitch

I’m of a divorced trashy Fishtown family. Yeah…my urge to settle things with fists, asinie means.

I’m a 20 year-once married, relatively successful guy now.

How’d that happen?

IRL
IRL
6 years ago

@Rollo

I was trying to get to the recent FRs and it made me realize you probably missed this:
https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-67/#comment-234885

Also, a link to the latest FR comment (as one of the linked solutions describes) would be a helpful addition to the Recent Comments. Thanks.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Mitch Values are transmitted through the culture. Full stop. And it is indeed up to each man to choose which values he wants to keep, and which to discard. Discernment is a life-long process. Unplugging involves serious reassessment of values. And some values are deeper and more primary than others. You choose your poison, but you get your values from outside of yourself. Well phrased Mitch. I agree with how you said that. I choose from among the things that present them to me. If I know myself well. If I can discriminate among the values and choose wisely. Then… Read more »

fleezer
fleezer
6 years ago

“what’s it gonna take for you to see RSD is a low limit cult of positive thinking that has to defame me? ”

are people over on rsd sites spamming Rollo, or do the rsd guys just come here and pimp their shit?

if guys come here first and internalize there is no way they will fall for the rsd pitch let alone pay for a wasted weekend

that being said, game fucking rocks and every guy should learn to play

Rollo + old Roissy + Ya = unstoppable

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

I watched a lot of Rsd stuff. Yareally recommended a bunch over the years, and explained the purpose of each intended video, which did make the one’s he recommended more tolerable. I used to tell ya that I couldn’t stomach Tyler or Owen or whatever he called himself. Even at my advanced age, I’d find it interesting to go to a venue with Tyler, and see who could ” pickup ” a chick the fastest in Manhattan. I’ve never been the slightest bit impressed by anything Rsd did in the infields, or in their ” bootcamp ” seminar videos, but… Read more »

j
j
6 years ago

@blax “If you interact with women on a regular basis, with intent, you will get laid if yo are trying to in a un-aziz manner.” you think if you say that to a group of these guys, that they are just gonna ‘get it’ They need a better gameplan than ‘just be cool, man’. They need someone to break these social dynamics in extreme detail so they can get a good grasp on it. Then change their body language, style, vocal projection…. like why would you send completely newbies out there to learn on their own possibly taking 10 years… Read more »

quartermoa
6 years ago

@Rollo

“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” ― Eric Hoffer

Understand what you are fighting against.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Bottom line = % of actual success. And for clarification, I never advised ” just be cool man “. I don’t shit on mgtow because I support men making informed choices that benefit their lives and advance their pursuit of happiness, but I don’t support anything that keeps men in an angry and uninformed state. If a man grasps and understand red pill, I don’t believe it pushes him towards mgtow. I think that’s a ( pua ) myth. Re: the pic of guys. That tells me nothing about who these guys are. For all I know one of them… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

RSD isn’t in the business of getting guys laid. Layering rules for interaction atop inhibitions gets a nicely out of the blocks, true. RSD gives guys a handbook to begin the sexual conversation atop a limited experience in how to get her to drop her pants. By the time YSG has approached and failed enough to be competent with women, he didn’t really need the RSD manual anyways. In that way these guys idolize RSD and JP as the words don’t reject him…so they remain personally stalled with words, PUA technique atop a unattractive personality. Both are easily punctured by… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Oh, and I haven’t run into legions of guys that require excruciating and extreme detail of a thing , in any great numbers IRL.

That’s just resistance, usually fear based.

I can teach a guy to build engines without going into metallurgy.

j
j
6 years ago

That tells me nothing about who these guys are. For all I know one of them could have Wilt Chamberlain numbers. look at their subcommunications “2 years is a long time. It’s not a bragging point at all.” for hardcases. It took me 3 months. Not to brag “I’m of the opinion similar to fleezer’s. Red pill + pua. I’d wager that approaching it in that order or even simultaneously will yield better, faster and more lasting results.” yeah that’s what i did. Rollo taught me Hypergamy and its implications. Roissy I credit for understanding what ‘Alpha’ is and helping… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

… You could put hank in a room of newly released female prison inmates, and he still couldn’t get laid.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“I’m of the opinion similar to fleezer’s. Red pill + pua. I’d wager that approaching it in that order or even simultaneously will yield better, faster and more lasting results.”

Here’s a machine gun, Son. Now go get the enemy. If you make it back we’ll teach you strategy, tactics and how to use the weapon. There’s a good lad. Off you go.

“RSD isn’t in the business of getting guys laid.”

Polio was conquered, and so the March of Dimes . . . disbanded? Don’t be silly. That would mean having to find other jobs and shit.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

…. Jesus I love this guy.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Hank hasn’t lost his virginity because of a combination of his shit health + shit environment + endless excuses. put him in a target rich city and good logistics and I’m very confident . . . ”

. . . his excuses would flow like water to match the shape of the container.

j
j
6 years ago

“his excuses would flow like water to match the shape of the container.”

Hank needs to get a mentor like SJF suggested

Roused
Roused
6 years ago

Reading The Rational Male alone isn’t gonna get these guys laid

Who ever said/wrote that was the mission and primary scope of TRM?

j
j
6 years ago

@Roused

‘Who ever said/wrote that was the mission and primary scope of TRM?”

Damn dude, are YOU channeling Cathy Newman?

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

The narrative I’ve noticed in online sales pua is that getting laid is a life priority.

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

M Simon That you can only get them from “God” (the Church really) is propaganda. Vile propaganda. Because wars have arisen from the worship of the “wrong” god. We are having one of those in this current epoch. Dont go all Cathy Newman in me now. I never said or implied anything of the sort. One of my favorite things about Catholicism, is that I can talk about what my values are, and defend them without ever mentioning God, or the bible, or Catholicism itself. SJF, having a Jesuit education, surely knows this. Why I accuse him of gaslighting. Catholic… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Lol, Cathy Newman is getting a lot of play.

j
j
6 years ago

“getting laid is a life priority.” Its one of the two. From Unchained man: The importance of Sex and Money Let’s say you have a fantastic relationship with a woman you deeply love. Let’s also say you are physically fit, have great hobbies, lots of friends, and a strong spiritual belief you have committed to that brings you great peace. Sounds nice, doesn’t it? Now let’s also say you have zero money in savings, you’re deeply in debt, and you’ve had zero income for two years. Given the above situation, is your life generally okay? If you’re being honest, the… Read more »

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
6 years ago

Fame can be like fire and warm – or burn you.

Don’t go all Cathy Newman on me.

Was that a Cathy Newman response?

Don’t be Cathy Newman, Think!

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
6 years ago

@Mitch —

This isn’t really a religious venue, or a community that is very favorable towards religion in general. You won’t find this a fruitful place to discuss those kinds of things, generally.

There are sphere sites that are RP friendly and Christian, where you can discuss religion and RP issues at the same time. A few of them are: dalrock.wordpress.com, deepstrength.wordpress.com, donalgraeme.wordpress.com.

fleezer
fleezer
6 years ago

“If you make it back we’ll teach you strategy, tactics and how to use the weapon.” just because the older battle tested men aren’t actively engaged in new sex pursuit in the modern dating market doesn’t mean they don’t know a whole lot about being men. combined = hundreds of years of authentic pre internet-echo-chamber life experience given out straight with no coddling it’s taken me longer to learn how to listen to men than it did to learn how to speak woman this is an area where younger bros might get tripped up. I already been out into the… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“Hank needs to get a mentor like SJF suggested Quick question. If Hank won a 21 Convention lottery and he was given telephone access to a life coach/mentor for two years (and two weeks in the field each month) and had a lineup of choices to choose from, which one would he choose. Say there were ten choices of mentors. Included were Rollo Tomassi, Jordan Peterson, Blaximus, Sentient and YaReally. Which one should he pick? Should he move more toward more PUA, or towards a well rounded masculine mentor know to be successful in each and every one of a… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ j I don’t want to always come off as being consistently contrary, as it’s not my Intention, but having been inches from bankruptcy, i can say it never made me feel ” less ” of a man, or lesser in any way outside of a financial drought. Nothing outside of myself can make me feel ” lesser “, particularly money. I think having that understanding enables you to find a solution and move on quickly, instead of having bad feels. If getting laid makes you feel any kind of negative way about yourself, you’re doing it wrong. Besides, there… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Funny, I’ve only managed about 2 months of 100% zero debt in 2017.

It must be a conspiracy.

j
j
6 years ago

hank has enough pua knowledge to get laid, so I would recommend someone like Blax. Sentient would probably kick hank’s ass out of frustration haha

Sigma
Sigma
6 years ago

Who would you guys consider having more experience? A single guy with a notch count of 20 who gets laid infrequently, or an OMG who has banged his wife 1000’s of times?

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

@ j

The long haired ginger dude in the middle looks relaxed.

Roused
Roused
6 years ago

@about Cathy Newman & J

‘Who ever said/wrote that was the mission and primary scope of TRM?”

It’s relevant, go ahead and ask Rollo if the primary mission of TRM is to help guys get laid. I doubt you will ask Rollo because you already know the answer. If you don’t well….

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Sigma

Or how about an omg, who had a notch of say, 30-40 before getting married and banging his wife thousands of times?

j
j
6 years ago

@sigma

I’d favor from the guy who is out banging <25 year old girls 8+ consistently over the guy who hasn't banged new pussy in 20 years. but that's just me

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

@ Sigma

If AWALT is a real thing…

It’s the OMG.

j
j
6 years ago

@Roused

TRM = demystifying intersexual dynamics
PUA = bang bitches

learn both. capish?

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

Sex and cash. The example is a false choice.

Kinda cart before horse. Guys can be satisfied elsewhere and the cash and sex come after and often does.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

@ j

Learn both….that’s the best approach. Yep.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

J

Lol. No doubt… But he WOULD get laid in a week.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“Who would you guys consider having more experience?”

Honest question: Experience with what?

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

awww geeeez… not this shit again…lol… i pop out to take a dump and grab a beer, and when i get back, you guys are back on the ‘marriage game’… ‘discussion’…lol well, i guess that’s to be expected since THIS time it’s actually on topic for the OP…lol @YSGs… how’s that’s FI treatin’ ya?…lol bc NOBODY here (as far as (((I))) can tell) is ADVOCATING that YOU should get married… you are imputing THAT from the OMG position of ‘get married if YOU… WANT… to’… = straight up FI pushing on you… (bc it in the FI’s interest that you… Read more »

Roused
Roused
6 years ago

Dang it @Blax, you beat me to it. Really had enough of back and forth with J. I only very recently became financially “solvent” enough to not go month to month with bill pay issues. If you’re in planning to get divorced soon really think through all the angles so you don’t make the same mistakes as I did. Child support and Alimony are done. Another chunk of debt will be paid off this spring. I’ve got a 4-year plan for what I need to do financially and I’m one year into it. Does it make me happy? Yes. Jumping… Read more »

Roused
Roused
6 years ago

dump blue pill shit

should read dumb.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

New Pussy worship= pedestalization. C’mon already.

Lol.

Sigma
Sigma
6 years ago

SJF

I think your question answers my question perfectly.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Your frame is what’s inserted in the ” new pussy “, even before your dick.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

And YES!!!!!!!

My day has been officially MADE!!!!!!!

GOOD TO SEE YOU HABD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roused
Roused
6 years ago

@J TRM = demystifying intersexual dynamics PUA = bang bitches learn both. capish? Yes, agreed. Before I was super broke I got laid plenty. I had little to no knowledge of what we call PUA. I was even more clueless about intersexual dynamics. Lack of knowledge on those two things did not prevent me from getting laid regularly with multiple women, some whom were much younger. A little bit of natural charm (note I didn’t use the words natural skill) with height, looks and ability to speak Woo go a long way. If I had learned about intersexual dynamics in… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@J Speaking from personal experience, RSD is rather “meh” for actual pickup. Mystery Method is far more useful and far cheaper. Just ignore the fuzzy hat shit and give it a shot. YaReally’s material is also good. Between those and TRM I’ve had a little success (though to be fair, those were the first time ever I picked out what I wanted and got it) but Dallas wasn’t a very good environment for me. Now I’m in Austin, there’s college poon everywhere. 6th Street is covered in HB8+ chicks on a Friday night. Only problem is that I spent the… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

…. That might be a GREAT idea.

j
j
6 years ago

@Sun

“Honestly I’m more disappointed by the lack of good wing men out there than anything.”

https://www.rsdnation.com/forums/inner-circle/usa-austin

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Roused

I’d wager that most people don’t realize the lighting speed at which financials can go to shit. Snowball rolling downhill. Especially if you’ve been just getting by. One or two false moves or some bad luck or unforseen expense, and before you know what’s happening, things spiral and get beyond control, temporarily.

But creditors/bill collectors converge anyway, with relentless threat and punitive actions, compounding the problem.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

Yeah. I, no shit, was only just asking…

Who would be the better wingman? The RP infused, Game savvy OMG or the PUA savvy YSG.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Eh Intellect:

For Hank, a game savvy, RP OMG with a clinical psychology practice and a Louisville Slugger.

j
j
6 years ago

@EhIntellect

we know what both sides are gonna say. but personally I’m a terrible wingman cause I’ll just steal yo bitch

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Re wings

Wings don’t really work well because you need to be friends first and boqth pretty good with women. Then it’s all fun and good natured competition. You’re both just out having a laugh. The girls are secondary.

M Simon
6 years ago

Mitch
February 12, 2018 at 9:30 am

Believe? What would be the point? I am experienced.

The “Church” is not entirely comfortable (an understatement) with that method.

“God” is built into your brain. JP discusses that and a few other things. (Nearly 30 minutes)

A sacrament that works 80% of the time is surely superior to the methods the church currently uses. It would also be, according to church doctrine, “witchcraft”.

You may also find this of some amusement: Hebrew Etymology – or everything you know about Jesus is wrong.

https://youtu.be/RT_WjwbSwPU

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

HABD

Thought the FI rubbed you out. And not in a good way. Spot On as always….

kfg

Saw an ad for this book today and had a laugh…

comment image

M Simon
6 years ago

Blaximus
February 12, 2018 at 10:02 am

I don’t want to always come off as being consistently contrary, as it’s not my Intention, but having been inches from bankruptcy, i can say it never made me feel ” less ” of a man, or lesser in any way outside of a financial drought.

In that regard I can say unequivocally you don’t need money to Game.

j
j
6 years ago

No you don’t need money to game but you will be stressed out living paycheck to paycheck

https://twitter.com/sidkal/status/962903943872475136

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

The thing to avoid when starting out on your own path is debt. Debt is slavery. That’s why it’s pushed.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

PREACH!!!!!!

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ j

Lots of people start out living paycheck to paycheck. And it used to be, that it wasn’t extremely stressful to begin that way. In fact, it used to be fun and a little exciting.

But you need to advance. Hence the ” work on your career ” advice not to stagnate.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Debt also leads you into bad decisions and to solve problems with more money.

Chump No More
Chump No More
6 years ago

@Sentient
“Thought the FI rubbed you out. And not in a good way. Spot On as always….”

A fully internalized RP-aware my be zero-ed out, but never rubbed-out. Men like HABD are resilient, antifragile… un-killable.

And ditto… love it when HABD drops by and scatters his pearls.

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

@Nova This isn’t really a religious venue, or a community that is very favorable towards religion in general. You won’t find this a fruitful place to discuss those kinds of things, generally. I totally get that. I’m not trying to put forth the merits of religion per se. I only mentioned my catholic orientation to let guys know where my perspective and values come from. It only went somewhere because SJF asserted that my perspective is the result of outside forces impinging on me – implying I should think for myself and come up with my own answers. Which is… Read more »

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