At the end of September last year I gave two talks at the 10th annual 21 Convention in Orlando, Florida. This probably isn’t news to any of my regular readers as it was the only in-person appearance I did last year. My first talk was a familiar one – Hypergamy; Micro to Macro – and was an updated version of the talk I delivered at the Man in Demand Conference in 2015. I’m happy to announce that the video of this dissertation is almost ready to go live on the 21 University site. I should also mention that this video marks the first time I’ve put my real face out in the wild so be gentle.
Before this video is made public I wanted to address some of the more common (and often deliberate) misconceptions about Hypergamy I read floating around Twitter, more than a few Red Pill forums and the blogs of Purple Pill ‘life coaches’ who need to dismiss Hypergamy as a ‘thing’ in order to keep their clientele mired in Blue Pill Disney dreams coming true. Some of these are honest mistakes, and some are just the opinions of guys who only see one side of the Hypergamous equation. A lot of critics think Hypergamy is all there is to Red Pill awareness, and while it’s true that women’s sexual strategies extrapolate a great deal into our social order, there’s a lot more to understanding intersexual dynamics than just wrapping your head around Hypergamy.
I’ve written about Hypergamy for as long as this blog’s existed (I own the google search term) and as new readers become initiated in the Red Pill I can’t expect them to have read every essay describing the ins and outs of Hypergamy. So in the interests of clearing the air and consolidating all of these misunderstandings for everyone benefit – and to refute the disingenuous – I’m going to run down the most common Hypergamous hate I see here.
Hypergamy is a Straightjacket
This is easily the most common misperception I read. Hypergamy is an evolved social dynamic. That is to say it is the behavioral extension of biological factors; most notably Ovulatory Shift. I’ll delve into this in the 21 Convention talk, and I’ve covered this in Your Friend Menstruation, but Hypergamy is a sexual strategy exclusive to women. It is the behavioral manifestation complementary to women’s hormonal and biological realities. Hypergamy at its root level is about the most efficacious, pragmatic, means of women becoming fertile with the best genetic breeding opportunities, and simultaneously pairing in the long term provisioning opportunities available to a woman.
To a strictly deductive, analytical mindset Hypergamy seems a lot like a straightjacket. If you measure up, you’re golden. If you don’t, you’re fucked. This reflex is a binary either / or extreme and as such it paints Hypergamy as something insurmountable and very deterministic. I will admit, I’ve read some Red Pill guys either triumphantly or defeatedly cop to this idea about Hypergamy. What both fail to consider is women’s individual capacity to optimize Hypergamy in relative contrast to their own SMV. I’ve seen low SMV Pickup Artists pull off what to this mindset should be impossible. There is so much more to Hypergamy than just what a man’s looks presents. There are factors and circumstances that can circumvent Hypergamy, and there is nothing deterministic about it. Yes, Hypergamy is often ruthless, but resigning oneself to binary extremes about it gets men nowhere.
Hypergamy is only defined as “marrying upward”
This is a pedantic dismissal of a phenomenon based on semantics. Yes, the original term was developed to describe women’s “tendency to marry upwardly into higher socioeconomic strata” by sociologists, but the term deserves a much broader definition in light of the biological and psychological realities we observe in women today. We could create some new term that would describe the phenomenon, but Hypergamy would describe it in the abstract just as well. Critics resorting to this dismissal only seek to discredit the one proposing an idea based on terminology.
Some women are more Hypergamous than others
This is usually trotted out by the ‘not all women are like that‘ critics, and a lot of these are, of course, women. But there are also the ‘Quality Woman‘ seekers who want to believe that their unicorn woman wouldn’t be as Hypergamous as most slutty skanks on a constant lookout for the bigger and better deal. Hypergamy in this case takes on a aspect of social conditioning and becomes a part of women’s personality.
While it is true that acculturation and learned social practices can be a buffer against Hypergamous excesses in women, it doesn’t lessen or dissolve Hypergamy’s influence in women. Just as men’s sexuality is learned to be reigned in, so too can Hypergamy be learned to be controlled. Needless to say in our post-sexual revolution era Fempowerment has effectively unfettered that buffer for women. Learning Hypergamous restraint is viewed as some male chauvinistic repression of women’s sexuality, but the truth is we are expecting women to self-police their own Hypergamy (with no real instruction). We hope that women will effectively select against their Hypergamous best interest in exercising that control, and today men pay the price for that foolishness.
All women are Hypergamous. Some have learned to curb its excesses, some live in a cultural environment that moderates it for them, but all women are Hypergamous to the same biologically inspired degree. All that changes is the context in which Hypergamy is expressed in women.
Both men and women are Hypergamous
I covered this fallacy in False Equivalencies, but to recap it briefly, Hypergamy is a sexual strategy unique to women. Women have attraction floors for men with whom they will breed and/or settle into pair bonding with. Women only consider an equal to, or better than, arrangement with regard to sexual market value of a man in contrast to (what they perceive as) their own. Men will date and have sex with women who are sometimes 2 to 3 steps below their own SMV. Hypergamy never seeks its own level; women seek an advantage in the mating game, men simply want to reproduce. This is what defines each sex’s imperatives.
Men and women are different in various facets. It is the equalist mindset that presupposes we are the same (or more alike than different) and because of this the False Equivalency argument is always the go-to response to Hypergamy in women. The equalist believes that if women are Hypergamous then men, being equals, must also be as well. Really, this is a retort intended to refocus an unflattering truth about women onto men to even the scales and make men’s pointing out Hypergamy an equal shame. This false equivalency is also used for many other unflattering truths unique to women, so don’t be fooled.
Hypergamy is overemphasized in the manosphere
I see this more and more because as women openly embrace Hypergamy in a public sphere this leads to men becoming more sensitive to their (often ugly) roles in that strategy. There’s a real want to mitigate the importance Hypergamy plays in men’s lives because most men don’t like the idea of being controlled. Which then goes back to the straightjacket notion. Men accept Hypergamy, but they refuse to see it’s larger influence on social and political dynamics. I wrote about this in The Political is Personal. It’s almost impossible not to be accused of being conspiratorial, but in a feminine-primary, gynocentric social order it is women’s interests that define what is ‘correct’ discourse.
We read all the time about how western (millennial) society has become overly PC (politically correct), but I would argue that we are overly female correct. When women are afforded unchecked power their first imperative is controlling men to accommodate the Feminine Imperative. Women’s Hypergamous interests influence and dictate legislation and political discourse. It may not be something most men want to consider. Most guys in the sphere are only focusing on women they know personally, but there is a larger social narrative that is inspired by women optimizing Hypergamy.
Hypergamy only applies to men with the best social / provisioning status
I’ve seen this one-sided perspective promoted by Dr. Jordan Peterson. The idea is that, in women’s natural beneficence, they will only be attracted to the man with the best capacity to provide for her long term security and parental investment. This idea myopically ignores the Alpha Fucks side of the Hypergamous equation. This concept is very complimentary to women and usually guys who limit their definition of Hypergamy to the inherent goodness of women also tend to think of Alpha in terms of men being pro-social, leaders of business and community. This is false on many levels, but it’s very virtue-satisfying for men who believe that they’ll eventually be rewarded by women (quality women of course) who will after time think “nothing’s sexier”. I should also say that this fallacy is very popular for Betas in Waiting.
It’s men who are responsible for Hypergamy
This is a reversal of the origins of Hypergamy, but from a socially constructed perspective. I see a lot of well meaning Red Pill moralist men trot this out as a complement to (again) their hope that women might ever find their virtuousness at all attractive. This fallacy presupposes that men are the real power distributors and the nebulous Patriarchy women complain of is something a majority of men are in someway in control of. It also reverses the origins of male dominance hierarchies. It presumes those hierarchies exist separate from the women who actually perpetuate them with their own Hypergamy and upward sexual selection.
This appeals to men who’ve bought into the ‘Man Up for the Red Pill’ ideology. Women are only as Hypergamous as men allow them to be. While there’s some truth in that in certain cultural contexts, it is women who are deciding for themselves how Hypergamous they wish to be today, and they’ve got the full force of the law and social norms to enforce their choices. While I’m all for men establishing a dominant frame that women naturally want from men, I think it’s unnecessarily self-defeating to believe that women don’t understand how their own sexual strategy works and are responsible for it.
Hypergamy means only 20% of men will ever get laid
Newsflash: Beta men can and do get laid. This is one concern that a lot of critics think is promoting self-defeat in men newly exposed to Red Pill awareness. The concern is that, again, men will become despondent because they’ll classify themselves as one of the 80% of guys who don’t get laid or women would rather not sleep with, because Hypergamy. This theme is actually carried over to a lot of these misconceptions; PUAs and Purple Pill ‘coaches’ alike are concerned that their clients will just give up and go MGTOW because that Rollo guy showed them the ugliest side of Hypergamy and they’re hopeless.
First off, nothing could be further from the truth. Second, this fallacy stupidly (binarily) ignores the individual circumstances of women at the various stages of life. Not all women can get with that guy in the 20th percentile for any number of reasons. Thirdly, the primary edict of this blog and the Red Pill in general is using this information to better a man’s life on a by-man basis. If anything, being exposed to Red Pill truths like Hypergamy should embolden men to become more than they are in a new paradigm based on Red Pill truth rather than Blue Pill false hope – hope that, unfortunately, a lot of Purple Pill coaches are selling.
Hypergamy requires trust on the part of women
No, it really doesn’t. What this premise ignores is the dual nature of Hypergamy, and trust has nothing to do with the sexual urgency a woman feels for a guy who represents a 2-3 level bump in SMV compared to her own while she’s in the proliferative phase of her menstrual cycle. Trust, rapport and comfort are post-orgasm feelings. These are reserved for the Beta Provisioning side of Hypergamy and ones women usually associate with their luteal phase of menstruation. This is why the Betas women trust are the first guys they call to cry to about the guy they fucked who had no trust prerequisite. This fallacy is just stupid, but it does illustrate the Hypergamous process from both sides.
Men should stay ignorant of Hypergamy for their own good
This again goes back to the idea that men (usually Blue Pill Beta men) who know too much about the visceral aspects of Hypergamy will naturally become despondent and go MGTOW or worse, kill themselves in the thinking that they’ll never measure up. If you’re at all familiar with my writing you’ll know that I think the only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. As I’ve said many times, the truth will set you free, but it doesn’t make it pretty. It also doesn’t absolve a man of the responsibility that comes along with that truth. I get that guys are hopeful that they can find a magic formula that’ll get them their dream girls without much effort. Telling them that’s not gonna work for them makes them hopeless because they still cling to Blue Pill ideals being resolved with Red Pill truths.
This is where guys get the notion of ‘leagues‘ and that they don’t qualify for certain women because they’re out of their league. As I stated earlier a lot of the “keep the guys in the dark” notion is really a misguided way of supposedly helping a guy become something more by keeping him ignorant.
Hypergamy give women an “out” for bad, evil treatment of men
This is a play on the personal responsibility trope. I covered this in Our Sisters’ Keeper. It really comes down to the capacity men believe women have or don’t have with regard to their personal agency. This returns us to the question of women’s Hypoagency:
Hypoagency – the idea that certain individuals (e.g. women) lack agency in their own actions.They lack control. They are not actors … rather, they are acted upon. The corollary to that argument being that they are not responsible for their own actions. Yet the cultural narrative of the omni-empowered, Strong Independent Woman® is completely at odds with exactly women’s hypoagency with regard to rape. They are powerful and purposeful when it serves and entirely unaccountable and blameless when it’s not convenient.
There was a time when the book The Selfish Gene was being bandied around the manosphere and the concern was men might use the premises of the selfish gene to absolve them of cheating on their girlfriends or used as an excuse to pursue one woman after the other. They couldn’t help it, it was written into their DNA. The same argument is now used by (mainly moralist) men who promote the reverse of the idea that men are responsible for Hypergamy. Thus, women being acted upon by a Hypergamy that’s written into their DNA can use it as an excuse for the worst behavior and ugliest results imaginable to men. The logic then follows that women are either active agents and have moral agency or they lack that agency and need men to provide the self-control women are incapable of.
Personally, I believe its a combination of the two; women do have agency for which they should be responsible and accountable for, but also, men need to provide a confident dominant frame under which women want to submit and be associated with. It is not men’s fault that women are Hypergamous, but if there is to be a healthy control of it for the best interests of both men and women, men must understand it and master it. I would say the same of men’s own sexuality and sexual expression – however, we are already overwhelmingly held accountable for not mastering it.
Women aren’t slaves to Hypergamy
This is one more question of women’s agency. Just as hypoagency and the biological element of Hypergamy can be used to socially absolve women of the responsibilities of it, so too can women’s awareness of their own Hypergamy be another way to excuse bad behavior. Again, it’s about personal responsibility. I’ve never stated that women are “slaves” to Hypergamy. I have explored women’s conscious awareness of their behaviors being influenced by their innate Hypergamy. Most women don’t realize they are giving a guy a shit test, it’s part of their limbic subroutines. Most women don’t consciously plan their girls’ night out around the proliferative phase of their menstrual cycle. They largely do, but they don’t realize the coordination. Women aren’t slaves to Hypergamy, but they aren’t immune to its subconscious influence, and this applies to your “good girl”, your trad-con “Red Pill” woman and your “Quality Woman”.
Women are Hypergamous, men are hypogamous
Here we have another attempt to confirm a false equivalency in the hopes that some egalitarian balance might be found between men and women. I’ve heard Purple Pill men trot this one out occasionally: Hypogamy is the idea that men must marry down, or the increasing tendency for women to marry down in the face of men’s socioeconomic status being less than that of women’s. The salient point is that there is no biological element in men that would suggest anything about men opting for hypogamy. This is simply another effort to balance Hypergamy for an egalitarian mindset. I’m not suggesting hypogamy isn’t a thing, just that it’s a sociological phenomenon. Mens biological imperative is unlimited access to unlimited sexuality, and this we can see manifested in their own behavior. Men don’t seek out hypogamous circumstances as a point of their imperative. Sometimes that may be the result, but again this is an extrinsic circumstance not an evolved drive.
Hypergamy should end after marriage
Oh man, wouldn’t that be nice? Actually no, it would put men and women into a state of personal stagnation. While I try never to deal in “should be” I do recognize that there are still guys who still believe that all the anxiety they felt in their dating years should fade to unconditional comfort after they get married. This is false for many reasons, but then there is the extreme reversal of this; “Aww man if I’m not the highest apex Alpha in my wife’s world she’ll cheat on me with him as soon as her proliferative phase comes around.”
Some critics like to overplay this stupid binary to prove that “women are people too” and Hypergamy isn’t even a thing for them once they’ve settled in with a great guy like you. Hypergamy is alway in effect for women by order of degree; marriage is no insulation from the sexual market place, you fool yourself in ever getting comfortable (or vulnerable). Guys who buy into this fallacy are usually equalists who believe their Burden of Performance ended when they said “I do”.
Now, that said, it’s not all gloom and doom. If you’ve established a strong dominant frame prior to marriage Hypergamy actually works in your favor. The same studies that showed women in unsatisfying LTRs or marriages sought out extra-pair sex with more masculine men also showed that women in satisfying relationships were more sexually proceptive (horny) for the men they were paired with when in their prime ovulatory phase.
Hypergamy is only about Alpha Fucks
Another type of critic likes to overplay the importance of looks and Alpha dominance in the Hypergamous equation. I’m of the opinion that looks and confident dominance (bordering on cocky arrogance) stimulates tingles in the most natural visceral way, but that’s not the entirety of the Hypergamous equation. As most PUAs will belabor, looks without congruence in behavior can actually be anti-seductive. Looks will cover a multitude of Game sins, but Game and generating an emotional impact in a woman is always the keystone. There are two sides to Hypergamy, Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks. In today’s world women’s primary focus is on the Alpha Fucks side of the equation, but it doesn’t mean the Beta Bucks provisioning side has been erased.
Hypergamy isn’t so important, you’re overstating things
I get this from Purple Pill guys, PUAs and women – guys who obsess over Hypergamy are reactionary losers. And to them I’ll once again point out the story of Daniella Greene, the FBI translator who left her military husband to marry the very ISIS fighter she’d been tasked to investigate. Watch the video at this link and then think about how many Red Pill truths this story confirms. Think about the far greater scope and importance an understanding of Red Pill intersexual dynamics and how Hypergamy factors into what was an international incident that threatened national security. Are we just going to say “well, bitches be crazy, she must be damaged” or do we see the mechanics behind her actions with a Red Pill Lens? This is only one example of the scope of the importance a developed Red Pill awareness should mean to men.
Look at the significance to which Hypergamy influences everything from divorce laws to child custody to even abortion. Hypergamy is a much larger dynamic than most men really want to digest. It’s not being reactionary to see the forest for the trees here.
You pronounce Hyper-gamee wrong, thus you are uneducated and your information is flawed.
Ok, you got me, disregard everything on this blog then.
[Stefan Molyneux falls under the ‘Hypergamy is only about Beta Bucks long term provisioning / parental investment’ fallacy.]
[…] Hypergamy – The Misconceptions […]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otxAuHG9hKo
“Ok, you got me, disregard everything on this blog then.”
Rollo, this post, much like your second book, seems to be beating a dead horse to me. I think you’re at your best when you’re pushing men to be better. When you’re pointing out flaws and admitting the ones that men can be equally shitty at, and encouraging us to be accountable and address them. Maybe I’ve just had too much Rollo? I’ve picked up two of your audio books and two of your (now marked up) paper backs. Nothing surprises me or upsets me, though at times I don’t agree with you 100%, I’ve still shared your work with… Read more »
I dont understand why guys believe more money and more power means more alpha. The most ‘alpha’ men are not in the C-suite or a country club; they are more likely to be in prison.
PS I think in this article you rightly pointed out a flaw that men are equally guilty of. I’ve shared your stuff with both men and women and listened to their feedback. I think scrutinising both genders highlights a non-bias, fact-based narrative, and probably makes the red pill easier to swallow for both genders. Food for thought. Cheers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMeXTTB56s4
“Keep it up, but keep it fresh.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeISHvoqPNE
Hypergamy is overemphasized in the manosphere
Hypergamy is a huge topic. It’s nice to have this concise summary, especially for beginners on the subject. Thanks, Rollo!
This is an epic recapitulation post, Rollo! Very well done. Thanks for it.
Considering evolutionary biology, Rollo’s is the only definition that makes sense.
From that perspective, it could be no other way.
Hey Rollo. I’ve been reading your blog for at least four years now, and I’ve read (and listened) to all your books more than once. I’m in my late twenties, live with my mother in a major city in Australia, and am about halfway through what is eight years of university. I know that you have discussed how a man can better his situation with respect to women and hypergamy, but have you ever thought about writing a post that could advise a younger man on how to make the right choices, and avoid making mistakes, as he gets older?… Read more »
“Hypergamy” is like discovering the heliocentric solar system: elegant in its simplicity, yet critical for understanding why planets move as they do, and predicting their trajectories. So any idea as to why/how these listed derivations/deviations came to be? Because these only complicate and confuse. Is it simply resistance to the unacceptable? If so, why unacceptable?
Concept illuminates and ought not produce anxieties if the mental point of origin is locked.
Jesus H. Christ, you’ve had some good images lately Rollo, but that woman/mannequin’s melted head is a great image for ‘off the hook’ hypergamy and hitting the wall… love it.
: )
The Dunedin Longitudinal Study gives fascinating hard data on what shapes us as people. The Alpha/Beta binary talked about here is a bit simplistic; there are actually five distinct personality types: https://theforeveryears.wordpress.com/2016/06/30/dunedin-study-findings-the-importance-of-identifying-personality-types-at-a-young-age-by-kirsteen-mclay-knopp/ Crucially for all people, self-control and discipline is by far the biggest predictor of success in adult life. It’s that simple. This is not speculation, it’s hard data measured across 1000 individuals over 45 years. Worth knowing about. Both men and women have a feral nature, that unconstrained is socially catastrophic, and in that sense I’m completely on board with the feminine imperative clearly escalating out of control.… Read more »
@TheGabz “I know that you recommend waiting until I am at least thirty before settling down” ya but that’s assuming you actually know the type of girl you want (vs what you think you want) by then. And the only way to find that out, is by fucking a lot of girls. YaReally: “When I was a hermit virgin I thought I knew exactly what I wanted (my dream girl was just some shy submissive quiet friendly asian 6/10 tomboy chick), but I didn’t even really know MYSELF back then (I was still a stifled AFC, I hadn’t even SEEN… Read more »
@Rollo If you’ve established a strong dominant frame prior to marriage Hypergamy actually works in your favor. I’m gonna doubt that seriously. Largely because as you note earlier: hypergamy is less a specific thing in a woman’s brain and more an emergent behavior as a result of biology, social reality, upbringing, and so on. If you take a look at a) the way the entire contract of marriage has been obliterated by society at large (if society does not have your back both legally and socially, marriage doesn’t work) and b) the divorce industry, both have been geared toward the… Read more »
“Men should stay ignorant of Hypergamy for their own good”
The bellow article sums it up.
https://krisgageblog.wordpress.com/2017/07/12/the-sexiest-thing-you-do-as-a-dude/
One “misconception” I’ve noticed recently cropping up in comments (here and elsewhere in the ‘sphere) is the notion that women could be improved by “Red Pilling” them. I believe Rollo pointed out this fallacy long ago.
You can’t red pill a woman. She is already that way. She “gets” it. She is brutally aware of her SMV. Any seemingly incongruous behaviour is her attempt to avoid mental injury to herself, and anything she says that is seemingly inconsistent is an attempt to deflect the truth.
@ness Criminals being alpha is what I believe is the driving force behind our recent soft on crime trend. The death penalty has nearly been eliminated. The real reason this has happened is a lot of women have the hots for death row inmates. Women think of them as “real men” and it is important to them that killers stay alive in the hopes that someday they are released and available on the sexual market. To use a less extreme example there is currently a very hard push for “prison reform” which would release drug oriented criminals on to the… Read more »
@ Gabz Most of the answers you are on this blog. Maybe you’re not fully grasping it. Initially, I didn’t. So I understand. The biggest thing is winning the battles over yourself. I am in the same boat as you (still trying to make it, even though it seems hopeless on some days). Think about how not being financially independent is affecting a whole lot of your life. If it were just about getting laid, every now and then you get back lucky but what you really want is freedom and a consistent quality of life. Isn’t it? The simple… Read more »
@ Olderog: “Girls who hike, climb, sail or any pursuit which demands physical exertion, risk to life and limb, and demands personal commitment is a great filter.” No, it is just a buffer. I know a HB5 who was into extreme fitness and outdoor activities married to a 6 foot 4 ripped guy who was into MMA. The marriage lasted only 18 months. She turned 35, dumped him for a 5 foot 7 incel looking rich beta. There is no control over Hypergamy in these times. A woman can jump from an alpha cock to a beta cock just as… Read more »
@ Rollo, thank you for this post and it’s about time. Hypergamy seems to scare the living shit out of men when there’s really no reason at all to harbor that fear. Imo/ime, hypergamy is a good thing once the mechanics are well understood. It’s responsible for my having options like banging the CEO of my company’s wife, even though he’s a multi billionaire that jet sets All over the planet. Guys tend to think hypergamy guarantees their failure. That’s like saying airbags in your car guarantee a serious accident..
In my opinion Hypergamy isn’t well enough understood in the manosphere and I’m not even sure if it’s the right term to describe the phenomenon. All the definitions of Hypergamy in use are so vague and open, they don’t really explain anything. If Hypergamy is the drive to the “better man”, what is “better”? If you can’t define this, your definition of Hypergamy has no worth. The manosphere even seems to define “better” as what fits female Hypergamy, so it’s actually full circle. Or, like Rollo does above, you say Hypergamy can search for optimization of both AF or BB.… Read more »
“Hypergamy requires trust on the part of women” — this one was new to me and after reading the reference I’d have to agree: it is a stupid fallacy.
re: the article’s artwork — that’s leaving your girl a messy puddle.
Women aren’t slaves to Hypergamy
Some women are. For my LTR it was “Alpha or nothing”. And she readily admits it. (to me).
Some misconceptions came with that though. She hopped to domesticate her alpha. Not even knowing that such domestication would eliminate the attraction.
I only met one woman ever who understood the nature of her attraction. And she was (lucky for me) my first GF.
“”If you’ve established a strong dominant frame prior to marriage Hypergamy actually works in your favor.”
I’m gonna doubt that seriously. Largely because as you note earlier: hypergamy is less a specific thing in a woman’s brain and more an emergent behavior as a result of biology, social reality, upbringing, and so on”.
Hypergamy seems to scare the living shit out of men when there’s really no reason at all to harbor that fear.
Hypergamy is a reflexive response to stimulus, like the Patellar Reflex. It is not an uncontrolled constant process like breathing, heartbeat.
@Rollo:
Hypergamy is only defined as “marrying upward” – semantics… Just semantics. Surely no one is seriously…
Wait, Hyper-gamee… Oh no, the FI got you… On the phonetics!
lh
January 16, 2018 at 6:52 am
“Better man” ? That is easy. The one she is more attracted to “at the time.”
“In my experience one of the best ways to find women who have been properly educated is to seek out women who’ve become accustomed to hardship. Physical, personal discomfort and effort.” http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2364549.1442515779!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/remains18n-9-web.jpg “The biggest thing is winning the battles over yourself. I am in the same boat as you (still trying to make it, even though it seems hopeless on some days).” http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/pateman/Self-Ownership.pdf “After watching lots of Jordan Peterson and especially his “Maps of Meaning” theory I got another idea to explain much of this. Peterson say we humans need goals and values to strive for, to grow from the… Read more »
Understanding hypergamy helped me bang more girls and ditch ones who started to display signs of being ready to tree-branch. By dumping them or ghosting them first I was able to increase my value and dampen the impact of hypergamy. Women only ditch guys they either have no use for or aren’t attracted to or both. If you short-circuit that by leaving first—bingo you increase your value and the impact of leaving you for a better prospect diminishes in her mind. I’ve done this a few times in the last 2 years. The power of ghosting a girl who either… Read more »
lh
January 16, 2018 at 6:52 am
The LTR often expresses the same thing in a much more terse fashion. “Betas are no fun” i.e. no challenge.
The internal equation being “harder to get = more value”.
“I only met one woman ever who understood the nature of her attraction. And she was (lucky for me) my first GF.”
How did the relationship unfold?
“Hypergamy is a reflexive response to stimulus, like the Patellar Reflex. It is not an uncontrolled constant process like breathing, heartbeat.”
What way’s have you seen in controlled on a social context?
For me the point is how much this can explain. I can understand male adventurers, what drives them, what they enjoy. Now if I understand for a female it might not be about the South Pole, but about men, I can get a better idea why they like such strange things.
http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server700/3hjero/product_images/uploaded_images/shackleton-ad.jpg
Jay Fink
January 16, 2018 at 4:36 am
It was a truly sad day when all the alcohol oriented criminals were released from prison. /sarc
It is not the drugs. It is the criminality. And anything can be made a source of that. By law. Legislatures love making criminals. It is, in fact, their main job.
“It’s also incredibly good for your frame and self esteem.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ0nmxq9qnU
“I can understand male adventurers, what drives them, what they enjoy. Now if I understand for a female it might not be about the South Pole, but about men, I can get a better idea why they like such strange things.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRamtqFByWc
rugby11
January 16, 2018 at 7:28 am
She was spinning plates. I was one of them. She ultimately went with a divinity student who convinced her to give up her slutty ways. Go figure.
lh
January 16, 2018 at 6:52 am
Further:
I met an Alpha woman once. Her favorite sport was letting other women have a go at her mate. All the effort they wanted to put in (sex included). Then she would go after her man until all he wanted was her. The other girls never had a real chance. No mate guarding (in the usual sense) involved.
A wonder to watch.
M Simon
January 16, 2018 at 7:35 am
No man is safe while the legislature is in session.
While not caring about purple/blue pill moralists, I understand their resistance. Being 49 yrs old, having a feminist mother and being raised with two sisters, this immersion in a feminine environment does leave imprint. I had a natural resistance to this environment, always wanting to be a boy’s boy then a man’s man but the forces and the casual misdirections at play are enormous. So when confronted with female hypergamy (my wife leaving me for basically naught) and being directed to the Rational Male’s blog by a firiend, it makes for a heady and confusing experience. It’s been 18 months… Read more »
Great post Rollo, Knowing that if every man read this for comprehensive soul searching, your comments section would likely wither and die away. These are the three points that jumped off the page at me. “While it is true that acculturation and learned social practices can be a buffer against Hypergamous excesses in women, it doesn’t lessen or dissolve Hypergamy’s influence in women. Just as men’s sexuality is learned to be reigned in, so too can Hypergamy be learned to be controlled. Needless to say in our post-sexual revolution era Fempowerment has effectively unfettered that buffer for women. Learning Hypergamous… Read more »
A wonder to watch.
“I suffered bad from this leagues belief as a young man, inspite of having been seduced numerous times by “higher status women” and seeing “mismatches” all around on a daily basis. I held onto this NAWALT belief, in search of the unicorn until I settled.” How did you get passed it? “I believed this one to the point of thinking I had locked her down when in fact the reverse was true. She had locked down my genes and provisioning,while her hypergamous nature was barely under control on the surface, just enough to be convincing most of the time. Welcome… Read more »
“So when confronted with female hypergamy (my wife leaving me for basically naught) “
Marquisdestade
It wasn’t naught, that’s not how hypergamy works. Drill deeper.
“How did you get passed it?” While reading here over and over AWALT and watching the constant playout of blue pill beta male game, reading all three of Rollos books and coming to accept the underlying dynamics at work. I now believe “Leagues” as they pertain to social sexual hierarchy are merely the byproducts of varying learned games, that help women climb the ladder while keeping men fooled into being stuck in place on their rung and strangely enough grateful for that position enough to hang on with white knuckles. These leagues are contrived by blue pill men,learned as game… Read more »
@rollo For people who don’t believe in the ubiquity of hypergamy -this- is the clincher. Woman demands frame after a hookup. If I could re-title this “Modern Love” NYT article it would be “Man Up, Chad!”
http://archive.is/aPtzK
Having a more thorough and accurate understanding of hypergamy won’t solve the problems facing Western society. The problem/solution dialog by Jafyk & Gabz is just LOL. Rollo reaches an understanding of how these instincts impact society, but can’t seem to just come out and admit there is no “solution”, rather provides a few options for distinct problems or categories of issues men face. “You want to bang ho’s? Marry a unicorn? Avoid divorce rape? Here’s your options.” As long as the ratio of reproductive-age males to reproductive-age females is excessive – and it currently is – any mitigating strategies will… Read more »
” better “. Yeah, it’s kinda subjective, but it’s your responsibility to figure out what’s” better ” in your own life, and With any wives or gf’s. I have a good friend that I’ve tried unsuccessfully to unplug for a few years. His wife is also a good friend that I’ve known since she was in her late teens. Even now in her mid 30’s, she’s a real looker. One of the most naturally beautiful women I know. The couple has been married for about 12 years or so, and have settled into the usual routine of kids, bills and… Read more »
Re ” game ” up above- game has nothing to do with suits and watches at all. I’d cut my dick off before I’d pay 800 ( or more ) for a fuxking watch for any reason.
Sorry to tell ya, Game always wins. Hands down. Just make sure you define it correctly and understand it fully.
Then buckle up.
Oh, and ” leagues ” are a figment of your imagination.
@Walala and Palma – Yup. When a woman acts up, you first have to determine if it’s just a fitness/shit test or not. Tip: Agree and escalate or just ignore, either works. Then, if in a real relationship, you have to slow down and consider whether this is a cry for comfort. I’ve learned the hard way that women need comfort in turns with the ‘stick’. All bitter and no sweet dominance will not work. Assuming neither of these is going on, then its hypergamy. My standard pitch goes as follows: – I don’t do drama or fighting. – It’s… Read more »
Excellent summary, Rollo. If you ever create a little sidebar labeled “Foundations” or “Crucial Knowledge” or “Read This FIrst”, this has to be included along with “Quality women” and “War Brides”. I’ll speculate that one reason there is so much pushback against the very idea of Hypergamy from so many man is the 1-2 punch of post WW II neo Victorianism (“women are wonderful” “women civilize men!”) which is still being peddled in the churches, plus the YouGoGrrl “girls are BETTER” that fills the schools, universities and large corporate world. The cold fact of hypergamy kicks the prop out from… Read more »
“If a woman says she was assaulted we should believe her.” – aziz ansari 2017
@Sun Wukong and Incubus Rising. Absolutely all humans are subject to their evolved biological nature. I referenced the now rather famous Dunedin Study as essential proof of this point. (Incidentally this is a unique longitudinal cohort study that has tracked just over 1000 people born in 1972, and has followed them at three year intervals ever since. And with a better than 95% retention rate, the results have been widely recognised as a unique insight into human nature.) So when they state that self-control is the predictor of adult success, this is not some feel good speculation … they’ve measured… Read more »
Long time no comment… Initial thing I just got to put out there is how the woman who married the ISIS agent only got two years in prison. This is a terrible indictment of our general (but suicidal) blasé attitude toward people who declare war on their own goddamn country, putting us all at grave risk, but there is a certainly good helping of double standard and white knighting here as well. I could be wrong, but seems to me a male FBI agent who went rogue, committing treason, all for some terrorist tail would NOT be walking about after… Read more »
@YouMotorcycle “Rollo, this post, much like your second book, seems to be beating a dead horse to me… But hypergamy, oh we get it…” No, I don’t everyone does, certainly not to the point needed. I think the point of Rollo’s post that BP and FI conditioning are pervasive and persuasive, and there are sorts of ways in can be misinterpreted or misunderstood. And there are different levels of “getting it.” You can understand the basic concept of Hypergamy, but REALLY accepting it’s true implications and clearing out all vestiges of the old way of thinking can be difficult. And… Read more »
No, I don’t everyone does, certainly not to the point needed. I think the point of Rollo’s post that BP and FI conditioning are pervasive and persuasive, and there are sorts of ways in can be misinterpreted or misunderstood There will always be deliberate misinformation proffered by guys who make a living off of other men’s Blue Pill conditioned insecurities. This demands refutation for the greater good of men. It might seem remedial for guys who are already Red Pill aware, but it is necessary to address this shit from time to time. “You’re just re-covering old shit Rollo, blah… Read more »
@Seraph – But of course, MGTOW is not what you described, I wonder why you would misrepresent it? It’s not temporary for young men – many older guys have gone MGTOW, I’ve met a lot of them in the manosphere. It’s not frame building either, it’s BUFFER building. MGTOW’s simply enhance their sense of victimhood. While retreating may be a good idea initially after taking the Red Pill, as it does rock one’s world, but that doesn’t imply going MGTOW. MGTOW is making a virtue of weakness MGTOW is embracing defeat MGTOW is anti-masculine. It’s putting a bullet in the… Read more »
@Palma – Spot on. Already did that with her twice – that’s how she ended up moving in. She’s 30, an HB9 from the neck down, without makeup…She’s hit the wall and is flipping out. She had her red pill moment 3 years ago. She knows her own hypergamy, it’s so wild to watch her wrestle with it. And ya, she’ll be back. Or not…either way is okay with me. I have 1 plate and several other projects afoot. The best part? She’s very submissive when with me. She told me, “Just take your dick out when you want me… Read more »
Rollo, I cosign 99% of your commentary here, and it’s another fine job. Well done, sir. As to that other 1%, I’m trying to wrap my brain around this remark: “all women are hypergamous to the same biologically inspired degree”. It seems to me, while it’s reasonable to assert that all women are hypergamous, that the strength of the hypergamous instinct is likely variable amongst women. No different in how something like baseline levels of libido(or other biological/behavioral traits) are variable throughout the female population. On another note – I just discovered my recent-vintage version of MSWord does not recognize… Read more »
Hyper-gameeeee! There. I am educated. I don’t like the line where we say men are not hypergamous…(or is it hyperandrous???bwahahahaha…I think the term hypergamy should apply to the behaviour in men and then hyperandry for the parallel in women; sue me). But all the same; for the just a little pop in pop out, just about any girl will do (not really ANY, but well, MANY will do). It is when one is talking about long term where it is obvious that a man tends to want to punch a few points above his weight in terms of looks. Not… Read more »
@palmasailor The problem with linear measures like nPV and IRR is they assume a unit of gain today is in the same category as a potential unit of gain tomorrow. Compare the pleasure of a casual fuck today with the pleasure of grandchildren in 30 years time. The first has a high certainty and may well be a lot of fun, but of little enduring value after just a few days have passed. The latter outcome is a great deal less certain, but trust me on this, is a profound delight that only gets better with time. They’re both good… Read more »
@ Burner Prime I’m not sure I get your question. I’m not living in the fantasy of expecting things to go back to how it was in the old days. My advice to The Gabz was just how he can get better and not necessarily overcome hypergamy. In retrospect I look back at a time in my life when I had a degree of success with women. The irony is that I didn’t know as much as I know now about the red pill. At the time I thought my life sucked. I underestimated the power of Independence (having your… Read more »
strong independent woman alert:
http://blog.ycombinator.com/join-leap-an-online-community-for-women/
gosh, without all those mean men holding us back, we’ll take over the world Pinky!
I’m sure being a RP fly on the wall there would be entertaining AND informative… quality info-tainment for those who can stomach the taste of shit
roused, look at this to get ideas on vetting for private membership for a digital presence; in this case facebook as identity verification(!!) :: not sure who I am? please consult this source known for lying and deception to confirm my bona fides lol
a breath of fresh air:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42708522
“In times of extremes, extremists win. Their ideology becomes a religion, anyone who doesn’t puppet their views is seen as an apostate, a heretic or a traitor, and moderates in the middle are annihilated.”
“…warning of the dangers of ‘vigilante justice’, which she says ‘begins as a response to a lack of justice'”
and detractors “….accused her of failing women by supporting a powerful male friend”
all for pointing out a lack of due process — the foundation for any hope of justice and sorting out right from wronged
@Scribbler
“@Seraph – But of course, MGTOW is not what you described, I wonder why you would misrepresent it?”
I think you have me confused with someone else…
By the way,
Even my more liberal friends are irate at the #MeToo shit and they are reducing interactions with women to the least amount possible and still conduct business. One friend says he only conducts business via email with women he does not know and/or does not trust (a widening pool) unless there is no other way possible.
These friends are all married, BTW.
Of course women will eventually figure and complain they are being shut out and shunned and declare civil rights violations.
My friends credit me with being ahead of the curve on this shit.
Well, if we’re going to allow that level of pedanticism as argument, the pronunciation isn’t wrong, it just isn’t English iambic. I admit it grates on me, but I’ve come to be able to deal with the Frogs insisting that it’s properly keylow-meter even if you’re a filthy English pig dog, so I’ll cope.
And “axe” meaning “inquire” is perfectly good Ænglish, so it is archaic nonstandard, but not wrong.
Nuke-ya-ler is nonstandard, and wrong as technical jargon, but is not incorrect linguistically, as the Latin root exists in that form as well.
I like hyper-gimme as pretty descriptive
Or hy-purr-gamy, to help remember that cats aren’t dogs
I see gamy and I hear tough guys in 1940s movies saying, “Yeah, she’s got a swell pair of gams alright”
“Peterson also says (and I agree) women’s dragons are men. ”
Who is the more powerful, the slayer of the dragon, or the”slayer” of the dragon slayer?
Men test ideas. Women test men.
https://youtu.be/jA96Kf30TQU
Excellent example of hypergamy. Jimmy bangs Steph on a weekend. Then she decides to bang one of his friends.
Jimmy can’t figure out why…she explains in a way that now only makes sense from a Red Pill perspective:
Basically she says “You can’t even have a little fun without losing your mind…it was a laugh that’s all…”
He takes it like a beta…
Rollo, I agree with you 100% “recovering old shit” NEEDS to be done. I’ve read all 3 of your books at least twice and have been following you for almost 2 years, and I STILL find myself pondering about Hypergamy or other topics thereof. The truth is (from a mental and spiritual perspective), the more we talk about Hypergamy, the more we talk about RP, the more we talk about the differences in intersexual dynamics; the better we (MEN) will continue to develop a deeper understanding. TRM is heavy, complex stuff man! It doesn’t just “click” immediately, to some folks… Read more »
Burner Prime
January 16, 2018 at 9:28 am
You don’t ever meet your unicorn. She meets you. She has to have oneitis for you.
Mineter
January 16, 2018 at 4:25 am
I think of Red Pilling a woman as teaching her what excites her and getting her to be comfortable with that. It has its rewards. It is also difficult to do. They really don’t want to know that your continual interest in other women excites them.
I think Upton Sinclair had a few words on the personal value of unwanted knowledge.
@Palma Sailor: Peterson is a Canadian psychology professor with pragmatic experience outside the Ivory Tower working as as therapist. He would have passed his life essentially unremarked if he hadn’t done something that is remarkable only for the times in which he did it: He refused the narative, in no uncertain terms, in public. There are those who are now taking him as a God speaking from on high, which he certainly isn’t, but as a psychologist who insists that his views be based on some sort of observable reality he’s quite good. He is also a fantastic model of… Read more »
Sex doll memes courtesy of BlackPeopleTwitter:
Rollo Tomassi
January 16, 2018 at 11:11 am
Good education is 99% repetition. I still like reading articles on E=IR. And that is over 60 years old for me. And of course there are those who haven’t yet got it. There are still a lot of those.
“recovering old shit” NEEDS to be done.”
I’ll note that that is essentially what Peterson is doing. Even though I went to school in the belly of the beast, it was a long time ago and the beast wasn’t foaming at the mouth quite as it is today. I watch a Peterson lecture and see a basic undergraduate lecture (although done about as well as I have seen).
But today, a basic undergraduate lecture, done as it used to be done before the post-modern, cultural Marxist wingnuts stuck their noses into everything, appears revolutionary to his younger audience.
@M Simon, I think essentially you’re right. I forget who, whether Rollo or Vox explained (and I can confirm), at some point women can come to the conclusion YOU are the the optimized man, and there is no likelihood of them upgrading. Then they stop their whoring and can form a long-term bond (lifetime?). Their optimized hypergamy engine tells them they were successful.That is a tough thing to achieve these days, much tougher than it was for my or Roosh’s parents. And you can never rest on your laurels. But to sell this idea to men is like saying you… Read more »
@Burner Prime:
https://therationalmale.com/2016/11/11/deep-conversion/
Burner Prime
January 16, 2018 at 5:12 pm
I think the answer is that “surrender”, an essential part of female psychology, is no longer in their vocabulary. It will come back – when conditions warrant it.
I read The Rational Male. The red pill is depressing to say the least, but no more so than the feeling that something was seriously wrong with dating. What you have to say makes so much sense.
I hope Preventive Medicine is less depressing and has some kind of a solution. I get the feeling that you don’t see a solution.
William Ward
January 16, 2018 at 6:24 pm
Preventive Medicine? On a long enough time line we are all dead. If cancer doesn’t get you a train wreck will.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opbpBEGR9po&w=1280&h=720%5D
Jordan Peterson is the man in the arena. He may not synch all the time with what Rollo explains, but he is producing these videos while working at a UNIVERSITY in CANADA.
He is a courageous sob.
Last one for the night –
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKKhxrZJcgw&w=1280&h=720%5D
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in… Read more »
Excellent post Rollo, I couldn’t agree more, When things are viewed through this lens, nothing in the world surprises me, its been 6 years of me being unplugged seeing things through this lens, and not a day goes by that I am not in a good state of mind, with no confusion in my life. Almost everything in life ties into these sexual dynamics. So many people just refuse to believe. To YouMotorcycle, you reek of a guy who just can’t quite swallow the red pill. The fact that you are mentioning aspects of this article as “flaws” really shows… Read more »
@blax The man and the many girls; thanks for the O’Neal video. But I think commitment for men is mostly not about “settling for” too. We want the best. Only when we cant get it do we settle for the best we can get. But if better comes along, we will romp. Women who will hear about red pill will know this. When my son comes of age I must make him realise this if he does not realise this already. She is going for the best, and so is he. Even O’Neal was getting side pussy when he was… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBomixfa_g4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhW8SMEy1eo
I read The Rational Male. The red pill is depressing to say the least, but no more so than the feeling that something was seriously wrong with dating. What you have to say makes so much sense. I hope Preventive Medicine is less depressing and has some kind of a solution. I get the feeling that you don’t see a solution. Welcome, don’t think I’ve seen you here before. The solution is clear — give up your idealism, accept reality (as disappointing as that may be to you now, coming from the unreality of the current “framework” that the world… Read more »
“I hope Preventive Medicine is less depressing and has some kind of a solution. I get the feeling that you don’t see a solution.” It’s only depressing if you let it be. It’s really uplifting it you take the message as positive. The solutions are myriad. Get the tempo of Red Pill Awareness. Get the tempo of Game. And then start to work at it. There is no possible one fits all model. Hence that lack of solution for you. You create your own solution based on a template. But here’s a secret: Get some help on finding your solutions.… Read more »
Really appreciate posts like these that serve as a remedial lesson to us all of what hypergamy really is and what it definitely is not.
There is a part of me that wants women to be more forthright and just fucking admit what is going on, and stop insisting on the horseshit lies like “the one”, “falling in love”, meeting her “soul mate”, “well, after giving him the best years of MY life!….”
But women don’t want to read off rules. They just want to play the game.
“and adapt to that reality without judgment. That is the solution. It takes time, and it isn’t easy, it requires you to make the mental transition from idealism to realism and actually be comfortable with accepting a reality you probably won’t like at first as compared to the unreal idealism, and many guys struggle with that.” Acceptance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF2iImTqaTs blog…sentient programs…user interface… agent’s of the FI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PylOlonndX0 SJF https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8eKxVCFoUk&t=2s One thing about being here and learning is calibration least on my part. “But women don’t want to read off rules. They just want to play the game.” It helps to respect… Read more »
Introducing Evolutionary Psychology
Paperback: 176 pages, illustrations
Written by Dylan Evans
Illustrated by Oscar Zarate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHZl2naX1Xk
Simulacra and Simulation
Paperback: 164 pages
Written by Jean Baudrillard
Translated by Sheila Glaser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN8EE5JxSGQ
Out of Control
Paperback: 521 pages
Written by Kevin Kelly
“(I own the google search term)”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um1Kxewx-_s
“Smith not only defied the machines, but defied their creators, man. The true “one” in the series, the only real individual, compelled by his own imperitive, and strong enough to create his own directive.”
“Some of these are honest mistakes, and some are just the opinions of guys who only see one side of the Hypergamous equation. A lot of critics think Hypergamy is all there is to Red Pill awareness, and while it’s true that women’s sexual strategies extrapolate a great deal into our social order, there’s a lot more to understanding intersexual dynamics than just wrapping your head around Hypergamy.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90vMzIehsY4 “Get the tempo of Red Pill Awareness. Get the tempo of Game. And then start to work at it.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrXCHQBINUc “So in the interests of clearing the air and consolidating all… Read more »
@M Simon I respectfully disagree. (It sucks that I can’t find Rollo’s post on this, because I’m not smart enough to make this up.) You can’t “teach” a woman what she wants or what she’s comfortable with. She either likes it or she doesn’t. She’ll put up with it or she won’t. She may not want to admit that something turns her on, but denial doesn’t change the fact. Women don’t want you to pull back the curtain on the Game – just play it well. Women don’t even like it when they know that you know how the game… Read more »
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B075KWCN9L/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&keywords=introducing%20evolutionary%20psychology
https://smile.amazon.com/Shaman-Disco-Other-Dreams-Masculinity-ebook/dp/B00ADS7F0W/ref=sr_1_176?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1516193616&sr=1-176&keywords=men+and+masculinity
http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/09276/frontmatter/9780521809276_frontmatter.pdf
On the other hand, I am all for teaching daughters about this stuff. “You will find the bad boy exciting, but he will make a poor husband. You will probably end up alone and childless, or as an impoverished single mother. The good husband and father will bore you to death. You will probably cheat on him and end the marriage. You will probably end up alone and miserable, if not poor. Choose wisely, choices have consequences.”