When I was talking with Anthony Johnson last week we came upon a topic I’m not sure I’ve adequately detailed before. That is the topic of submission in a relationship. One of the more hotly debated subjects I hear and read coming from evangelical Christian women is about a wife’s duty to submit herself to her husband. Anyone who’s familiar with my take on the state of the mainstream church and how feminism and feminine-primary doctrines have assimilated it can also understand why the topic of a wife submitting to her husband rubs many of them the wrong way.
My intent here isn’t dig into something that would be more aptly covered by Dalrock’s blog, but I begin my analysis of women submitting to men in a Biblical context because a wife’s submission to her husband, or in other cases a male family member, is something fundamental to Abrahamic religions. In the interests of social control women were simply told that it was God’s will that she submit to her husband and that was that. Granted, there were some stipulations to that submission for the man involved, but essentially the doctrine was one that placed a man and men’s decisions above that of a woman.
Naturally, Christian feminists and the Feminine Imperative the pervades the modern church (even amongst the men) want to dance around or prequalify this ‘commandment’ such as it is. It’s a very testy subject for a pastor or a speaker to consider because it risks alienating women in the church who for the better parts of their lives have been raised on the narrative of Fempowerment and equalism. It’s my belief that this part of doctrine is so troublesome due to the socialized want of an ideal equalism between men and women in the church.
From a male perspective, and for all of the secular influence of feminism in the church, men in the church have largely become men women simply aren’t comfortable submitting to. Issues of the church aside, women in general are ’empowered’ today to believe they can be self-sufficient and self-satisfied without any male influence. When we combine this ideology of female self-sufficiency with the sad (and ridiculed) state of what passes for masculine identity it’s easy to see that the 80% Beta men in society aren’t men any woman’s hindbrain is going to register as someone she can submit herself to.
When a woman submits herself to a man it reinforces the idea that her doing so is imparting him with something of value. Very few women can completely submit themselves to a man’s authority. I overheard a conversation between a mother and her adult daughter once. They were discussing the details about how and why she decided to marry her father. The adult daughter was dating and Mom was offering her matronly wisdom. In the course of the conversation it was apparent to me that although she’d been married for almost 25 years Mom was an Alpha Widow. What she said to her daughter was interesting, she said, “I love your Dad very much, but there are parts of me he will never know.”
What she was saying is that, although her husband was a great guy, he wasn’t the guy who she could totally submit herself to. After 25 years of marriage she knew that he would never be the man to make her feel comfortable in total trust, but also he would never know the sides of her she keeps reserved (usually sexual) because he’s not the kind of man who can bring it out in her.
Much of the modern divorce-porn (Eat, Pray, Love) narrative centers on exactly this dissatisfaction in women. The hope that’s sold to women is that it’s not too late to divorce your boring husband and fly off to the Bahamas to meet the kind of guy whom she can completely submit herself to. Even if it’s never the case that she takes action on the fantasy the popularity of that fantasy speaks volumes about the state of women and their submitting to men.
In the manosphere we have a maxim that states women hunger after a dominant masculine man. It’s a Red Pill tenet that it’s exactly this masculine dominance that women want to submit themselves to. It’s a large part of what contributes to the tingle effect of women’s arousal, but masculine, confident dominance also stimulates the desire to submit herself to a man who will know how to take care of her and any potential kids. Just as there are two primary aspects of women’s Hypergamous filter, so too does masculine dominance attract and arouse both the short term sexual and long term provisioning aspects.
Why do women hate anal?
This was a question I saw posted on the Ask the Red Pill sub-forum on Reddit recently. Of course, you get the troll answers to it, but I stopped or a minute to consider why it was a woman would be so resistant to have anal sex with a guy. Some guys stated that their girlfriends were into it and obviously anal sex is a very popular niche in pornography. So it wasn’t so much that women hate anal as it is they only consider it with certain men.
Anal is about total submission to a man. It is all about his pleasure and her discomfort in the act. If that man isn’t 100% an ideal dominant Alpha to her, her sexual interest is mitigated by order of degrees. Her genuine desire to initiate sex, and her imaginativeness in sex, will be the metric by which you can judge where she perceives your sexual market value to be. It’s my belief that women’s sexual hesitancy with a man is inversely proportional to her subconscious appraisal of his sexual market value.
Women’s hindbrains will not allow them to submit totally to a man it perceives is less than Hypergamously optimal. Anal is one thing, but does she swallow, is she averse to your fluids (sperm and saliva), does she initiate, does she flirt with you, or is sex something you have to negotiate, make appeals to her comfort (mental satisfaction) or some non-sexual qualification? I got into this topic in Saving the Best, but was she a wild and fun lay back in her college days yet lack-luster in bed with her husband?
Submission by a woman to a man is a reflection of her hindbrain acknowledgement of that man’s SMV. I also explored this in detail in SMV Ratios & Attachment. The greater the disparity in SMV between a couple the more or less likely a woman is to partially or totally submit herself to him. In a modern equalist perspective men and women are conditioned to believe that all-is-one and men and women are no greater or lesser than another in all respects. The idea is that an SMV ratio of 1:1 makes for an ideal relationship. Naturally, I disagree with that assessment, but what equalists don’t like to consider is that there are categoric differences between men and women and one of those differences is that women want to submit to a worthy man’s direction and influence. This is an intrinsic gender difference that not only defines an individual personal relationship between women, but also on a larger societal scale. There are many sociological studies of “egalitarian” cultures where the populations still opt for gender normative roles. And even in sexually fluid relationships there is always a dominant and submissive partner.
It’s my belief that women can instinctively determine a man’s SMV within moments of meeting him. There’s an old saying that a woman knows within five minutes of meeting a guy if she’ll sleep with him. I disagree. I would say that a woman knows if she wont sleep with a man within five minutes of meeting him. That’s the key. Preselection and some other variables help, but her hindbrain knows the external cues and triggers. The more a man must sell himself as a potential sex partner is inversely related to a woman’s hindbrains instinctual uncertainty of his potential to satisfy her Hypergamy. In a nutshell, this is how women’s sexual filtering processes work in sexual selection.
Nature & Nurture
A man’s value to a woman is derived from both an evolved sensitivity to arousal cues, but is also influenced by her acculturation to perceive a man as attractive. Evolved cues are generally what women’s mental firmware make them physically respond to in arousal. It bears repeating here that arousal is not the same thing as attraction. The two sides of Hypergamy are looking for different (sometimes conflicting) aspects in a man. The first is short-term sexual, good breeding potential in a man. Ovulatory shift, visceral arousal and sexual urgency is what defines this side of Hypergamy. Submission comes easy for the right candidate in this sense, and it’s submission born of necessity. If a sexual partner’s investment is something she knows will be fleeting, there’s less to be concerned with in submitting to him and enjoying the experience.
On the other hand, there is also a learned aspect to attraction. There are learned social cues, status markers, cultural cues that imply a good potential for provisioning and parental investment. All this builds up to the attraction side of Hypergamy. For years the manosphere has raised awareness of the fact that women’s provisional side of Hypergamy is largely accounted for by social influences, a larger educational base, and programs that essential transfer men’s resources to women. We can add to this the break down of the conventional family and the disenfranchisement of men’s participation in it while still making them accountable to it and we can see how women’s primary focus in Hypergamy leans heavily to the side of short-term breeding opportunities (Alpha Fucks).
As such the short-term necessity for submission becomes something a woman sexualizes and conflates with that side of Hypergamy. There’s been an ongoing debate for years now about how a man earning less than his spouse is a recipe for divorce. Even though women have their provisioning needs met in various ways, the want, the expectation, is that a man’s long-term value is directly connected to his earnings, status and to a lesser degree his education. Since Hypergamy always seeks a better-than arrangement with regards to SMV, a woman’s capacity to submit herself to a man is bound by what she believes is her better-than due. That isn’t to say a man who excels in the Alpha Fucks side of things can’t maintain a woman’s complete submission to him. Good sex is still good sex, and it’s a strong glue for an otherwise imbalanced relationship, but when a woman bemoans the lack of any ‘good’ men to marry her, it’s this expectation by which she judges an acceptable man. Is he someone she can submit to.
Although the equalist boilerplate would have us believe that house-husbands are sexy and perfectly viable, the stats show that women don’t want to submit themselves to a man who earns less than her, is less educated and whose status is below what she believes her own is. If that sounds like a power struggle you’re not to far off. Equalism teaches women to resist submitting themselves, much less ever doing anything for men. Even the word “submission” sounds like slavery, but in spite of all that there is a root level desire to willingly submit themselves to a worthy man. Romance literature is rife with exactly this submission as its main formula.
“Hell Yes!”
When I was speaking with Anthony last week I answered a question regarding how men might determine the genuine desire of women they’re engaging. I mentioned the “Hell yes!” dynamic as one way. I believe it was Mark Manson who said whenever you propose a date or a drink or some other interaction with a woman the answer you’re wanting to hear from her is “Hell yes!” Whatever the proposition you make with a woman you want her to say “Hell yes I do!” Unsolicited enthusiasm is a very good sign from a woman, and one that can help you determine her genuine desire as well as her capacity to submit to you.
When you get this response from a woman it feels like it’s magic. It’s active anticipation and a real drive to submit. When I go into issues that deal with a man maintaining Frame much of that comes from a woman’s genuine desire to submit to that man’s authority. A woman’s got to submit in order to enter a man’s reality.
If we use the “Hell yes” response as the upper end of a woman’s interest, what follows from there is, by order of degrees, lesser interest. From the “Hell yes” on down any hesitancy on a woman’s part is lesser capacity to submit, all down to “Hell no”. It’s those in between degrees of interest that trip men up. They make poor decisions due to a woman’s Luke-warm desire. They keep driving at spiking interest, calibrating and then reassessing a woman that had only marginal desire for them. In itself this isn’t a bad thing, most PUA Game centers on this process, but it all has a purpose of arriving at a woman’s submission to Frame.
@ “So it wasn’t so much that women hate anal as it is they only consider it with certain men” So true. I was doing anal with a woman the other day, and she suddenly said, ‘I don’t even let my boyfriend do this’. And not only was she really into it, SHE was the one who asked for it, more than once. But, don’t want to derail from what is I think a more important part of your post: @ ” It’s a very testy subject for a pastor or a speaker to consider because it risks alienating women… Read more »
[…] Submission […]
” . . . all [the way] down to “Hell no”.”
The bottom isn’t “Hell no, I won’t,” it’s “Hell no, you can’t. Direct opposition, whether what you intend to do has anything directly to do with her or not.
Oh, and really nicely done animated gif.
Yeah, I’m digging the gif too. @ Rollo Laugh my ass off!!! I’m reading along, then I get to ‘ anal sex ‘ and I just burst out laughing. Best damn chuckle I’ve had today. Unexpected is unexpected. I always council young bucks to eschew the lukewarm chicks. If he can’t raise her temperature because she has some societal installed cockblocking mechanism, it’s a waste of precious, valuable time to keep pursuing her. The ends will not justify the means. Bang and keep it moving quickly. I feel chicks do a man a great service by tipping their hands early… Read more »
>>when a woman bemoans the lack of any ‘good’ men to marry her, it’s this expectation by which she judges an acceptable man. Is he someone she can submit to. This is what underlies much of our social malaise. As Rollo has said, one would expect a woman to resist with all her abilities from being drawn into a man’s frame. The female empowerment and male disempowerment of society means there are fewer male frames which women would like to submit to- and a greater ability for women to resist entering a man’s frame. Thus constant battles and one-upmanship and… Read more »
>>when a woman bemoans the lack of any ‘good’ men to marry her, it’s this expectation by which she judges an acceptable man. Is he someone she can submit to. This is what underlies much of our social malaise. As Rollo has said, one would expect a woman to resist with all her abilities from being drawn into a man’s frame. The female empowerment and male disempowerment of society means there are fewer male frames which women would like to submit to- and a greater ability for women to resist entering a man’s frame. Thus constant battles and one-upmanship and… Read more »
Women are more inclined to do anal today than they were in the past. It’s relatively de rigueur.
Are women more submissive now than in the past?
That sharknado-jumping Bill Nye video showed a middle aged fat woman I’m pretty sure would do just about anything.
I know a guy who met his wife (a wing-walker) at a gang bang. He was number three.
I agree that it seems a natural progression into AnalLand. The old joke goes, “Why do men love Anal so much? Because it’s tight, warm, and degrading to women.” I recently had a threesome (first one in a long, long time) with my regular partner so loves anal and a 21 year old Friend with Benefits. At the conclusion, the newest member of the Backdoor Club told us she had had the most intense orgasms ever — not so much (if at all) during anal with simultaneous stimulation — but because she finally gave in and let go of her… Read more »
Awesome post! I’ve been re-reading through your book PREVENTIVE MEDICINE, with a focus on the “Party Years. “Epiphany” and “Alpha re-intrest” phases in an attempt to triangulate on some behavioral situations I experienced with my last 4 relationships in the past 10 yrs. 1. (A) My on agian off agian BPD ex fiance whom I met when we were both 21 and ended it all in 2013 at 27 after I found out she was a former pornstar and was a escort while I was deployed or in another state. 2.(B) A 25 yo college grad I dated for 6… Read more »
Nice GIF aswell
Submitsion is the response to arousal to alpha. So dosnt that have to be maintained within a relationship to keep it going?
To submit to a lesser man is rape. To submit to a superior man is harmony. The fact that many a man needs social acceptance or scare mongering/approval by supernatural forces to believe he’s above a woman is ridiculous. FYI, raising women with this mentality helps, but isn’t necessary. Women only do what men allow them to do. Betas and ‘equalists’ allow them to do anything. Keyword: allow. To be fair, I don’t blame women for protesting. Have you seen the hordes of weak, skinny/fat, beta losers out there? Anal, Swallowing Cum, Public fucking, etc is about a man wanting… Read more »
” Anal, Swallowing Cum, Public fucking, etc is about a man wanting to see a woman willingly allow him to ‘degrade’ her despite her reluctance. It’s a symbol of his power and her arousal for him. Women in love naturally do things at their expense on their own volition to please a man if she sees him as her ‘alpha’. ” Whooppsss… I disagree with this, although I’ve heard it a million times since looking into the manosphere. Sounds just a little to much like a feminist talking point, the degradation thing. Submission does not have to go hand in… Read more »
What about animals, Dr Warlock?
If a woman is REALLY into a guy she should be willing to do a donkey show, right?
This certainly matches with my experience. When I married my wife I was super low in SMV and my wife would barely expose anything of herself – always lights out etc. Since I have my shit together and learnt a lot (mostly from this blog) things have improved immensely. I haven’t got totally to “hell yes” but I can see it not too far off. And I can see my wife is significantly happier too. She doesn’t know why, and doesn’t really care to know, but she is happier and that makes very happy. It’s funny, when I particularly crack… Read more »
“Anal, Swallowing Cum, Public fucking, etc is about a man wanting to see a woman willingly allow him to ‘degrade’ her despite her reluctance. It’s a symbol of his power and her arousal for him. Women in love naturally do things at their expense on their own volition to please a man if she sees him as her ‘alpha’. Prostitutes and pornstars do this for paying customers. Does that mean they love them? I would think not, but ya never know. Gold diggers do this for “marks” then entrap them. Low self-esteem waifs and crazy chicks do this to whomever… Read more »
“Submission is the response to arousal to alpha. So doesn’t that have to be maintained within a relationship to keep it going?” Most definitely. Why do you ask that? Even a guy like me who always gets easily into Acceptance mode can easily Accept that. Even of I find it difficult to get my wife into submission mode. It doesn’t bother me. I haven’t completed my mission to get there. It doesn’t stop me from moving toward that. I get plenty of Beta tells along with plenty of Alpha tells. I still work towards Alpha. There is only so much… Read more »
Rollo
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jAS
Women don’t ever want culpability so any form of submission or hint of submission nauseates them because they don’t want anything reminding them they were wrong or made a mistake. So a woman can submit on some things to a beta provider. If she feels the future is really secure. She’ll move to a new city for him. She’ll pick the house, and slowly take it over, but she’ll move for him. Saw on twitter someone was relaying what was told to him and he said that women are very picky about who they have sex with, but they’ll marry… Read more »
agree with most of it, except that a feminine woman will NOT initiate sex as she waits for her dominant active man to do so while she is being passive and just reacting to him.
Submission is always conditional and based on value. In my last girl I was seeing for 9 months she resisted anal. Then did it. Then made a point of telling me she did it. Our thing broke down because of the lying and the orbiters. But she stated that she was submissive only in sex. Not in “real life” is kind of how she put it. It worked until I’d had enough of her antics. That’s why compliance testing early is so important. For you newbies here’s an example of a compliance test that the girl failed. Flakey 20s girl… Read more »
Rollo
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jA5
@ The Water Cannon Boy “The subject of how men are less masculine nowadays, and that women are actually yearning for them to be more masculine, I’ve often thought that it’s correlated to the number of women, and girls, who are wearing tights/leggings” I think women signal their sexual availability as much as their culture deems permissible. Keeping that type of attention in check is a whole different story. Dudes go gaga over a nice butt in some yoga pants because we are sexually enticed and exploited in the west. Members of tribes deep in the jungle probably get used… Read more »
Excuse my riffing here, but I couldn’t resist commenting on this inanity after reading Rollo’s Submission OP. Meet feminist Alexis Wesley: “For many the idea of patriarchy is some nebulous system that has a cumulative effect of suppressing women. But for me, patriarchy was stone cold life. Instead of heavily influencing the system, it literally was the system. It was called “biblical” patriarchy or complementarianism. This system held that men and women have different roles in the family hierarchy: the husband is the leader and the wife is secondary to the husband. In this system being born with a vagina… Read more »
Ajax, that’s just the tip of an entire submerged glacier. The net is chock full of conservative feminists, radical feminists, intersectional feminists, equity feminists, and a whole long list of feminists who are all about smashing Teh Xtian Patriarchee. Often they have drunk deep of the well of VAWA and are always ready to see “abuse” in any man who isn’t totally subservient to his natural superior, any random woman.
It’s a cottage industry, these girls review each others books, help organize each others seminars and always have each other’s backs on the web.
@Shaka
>If submission is conditional can it really be genuine? We know we can’t negotiate genuine desire but females do display it for whom they choose.
Submission can be coerced. Desire can’t.
I think its all rather straight forward.
Woman want to be dominated and submissive. They will only do it with an alpha / assertive male they can fully let go with in sex, and I mean fully. This is the feeling they crave, where they can totally let go of their mask, be fully be relaxed and submissive and let the man work her body and mind over. And why, because its highly enjoyable and pleasurable.
Getting married is Blue Pill (provider). Being religious is Blue Pill. I’m amazed that Rollo doesn’t see this. Red Pill is feral and wild and pretty fucked up. It’s the real alpha guys dominating and sticking their dicks into as many young hot girls as possible then doing a runner. I know it’s hard to stomach but that’s the truth of biology. A real “Red Pill father” is one who impregnates a girl then leaves her so another guy has to raise his child. And another thing that is never touched on here (it is dark but true) is that… Read more »
A small epiphany moment with this essay for me.
On the subject of Church: the last time I was in Church (a Cathedral) the Right Reverend (male) was waxing lyrical about the wonders of Open Borders even though one of the vibrant entrants had attempted the previous week Murder in the (cloisters of the) Cathedral. Was it any wonder wonder with that level of cuckdom that the to-be enthroned Bishop was female.
Much of the modern divorce-porn (Eat, Pray, Love) narrative centers on exactly this dissatisfaction in women. The hope that’s sold to women is that it’s not too late to divorce your boring husband and fly off to the Bahamas to meet the kind of guy whom she can completely submit herself to. Even if it’s never the case that she takes action on the fantasy the popularity of that fantasy speaks volumes about the state of women and their submitting to men. This post is probably a good place for this comment. I intended to leave some comments on previous… Read more »
Radawn, go back to comments from about 6 months ago. We already did much of the ‘ marriage is beta\ blue pill thing.
Red pill doesn’t automatically denote ‘ alpha ‘ alpha doesn’t automatically denote child abandonment.
Being religious is Blue Pill.
Red Pill is about what is real and true.
In OT political news…another military vessel has arrived in the Sea of Japan. The FRENCH!
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/french-navys-amphibious-assault-carrier-arrives-japan-joint-drills-risking-chinas-ire-1619247
Its acceptable to wear lycra and spandex everywhere nowadays. Damn right. This HB10 blond chick shows up to my motorcycle course (parking lot riding) yesterday in yoga pants. Very distracting. Oh, and it was a rainy day too. I had full rain gear on… @Blax The flipside to this argument, is that men must be sexually dominant and LOVE sex. That testosterone flowing through your veins is some great and powerful shit. Nothing wrong with being caring and all that, but it comes secondary always. A man has to establish himself sexually with a woman, and she has to want… Read more »
God is everywhere
https://medium.com/@nntaleb/peace-neither-ink-nor-blood-4657956c82ac?source=email-53373285c4ef-1493639598415-digest.reader——0-7§ionName=top
Just now on reddit theRedPill
“Hormones associated with the menstrual cycle appear to drive sexual attraction more than we know”
http://archive.is/AjQvN
Garfunkel & Oates, then, not only mocked virginity but subversively dissed submission (my guess: Lindhome is an alpha widow and submitted hard; Micucci I don’t think so).
https://youtu.be/CS4wptwMfwQ
Red pill doesn’t automatically denote ‘ alpha ‘ alpha doesn’t automatically denote child abandonment. People often seem to conflate these ideas. The red pill represents arrival of some knowledge or understanding of human dynamics that you previously did not grasp. It is miles away from auto-transforming a man into an alpha male, as was just re-emphasized in the essay describing the difference between understanding your prison and breaking out of it. Alpha males are accustomed to enjoying the fruits of that status, which may easily include their own offspring. They like to watch them try and learn, and they like… Read more »
Red pill doesn’t automatically denote ‘ alpha ‘ alpha doesn’t automatically denote child abandonment.
Red pill is a toolbox. Which tools you choose to apply to any life situation is entirely up to you.
ISIS is so submissive, adherents wear diapers.
Wow… this bit Doc? Anal, Swallowing Cum, Public fucking, etc is about a man wanting to see a woman willingly allow him to ‘degrade’ her despite her reluctance. It’s a symbol of his power and her arousal for him. Women in love naturally do things at their expense on their own volition to please a man if she sees him as her ‘alpha’. Thinking that particular sex acts are “degrading” or done at “her expense”… these are Dog concepts… rooted in validation seeking, insecurity and Dog HoF topics such as honesty, honor, loyalty, courage, trust. For Cats, sex just is…… Read more »
@earthling Just now on reddit theRedPill “Hormones associated with the menstrual cycle appear to drive sexual attraction more than we know” So, to test this theory, that hormones drive sexual desire significantly in women, let’s consider the sexual desires of post-menopausal women, who ostensibly have lower levels of sex hormones than mensing women do. https://www.menopause.org/for-women/sexual-health-menopause-online/changes-at-midlife/changes-in-hormone-levels I’ve observed that menopausal women often have significant sex drives when a man with SMV +2 or more is around them. How can this be if sex hormones, especially testosterone, contribute significantly to a woman’s sex drive? Why are so many supposedly Red Pill ™… Read more »
For a year he MAPPed Hard (TM) in the way that the Purple Pill guys love – the easy stuff like lifting, tough mudding, new clothes, earning more money… and never quite got around to The Hard Work like smashing her shit tests and running dread…
Fuck this was me before I blew it up after 28 years. Before RP. Probably it was too far gone to have helped.
Sure helps now…
I’ve observed that menopausal women often have significant sex drives when a man with SMV +2 or more is around them. How can this be if sex hormones, especially testosterone, contribute significantly to a woman’s sex drive?
I’ve had a PM 52yo give it to me pretty easily. And yeah, my SMV was way higher. Don’t know if she was on HRT.
I don’t think the hormone aspect completely explains all. It’s just another part of the puzzle.
Women want to be submissive and that’s a fact. In fact, she’s happier this way. Look how hard it is to get women away from abusive /controlling men. I don’t think a woman wants a man who beats her, but on the other hand, it’s clear who the dominant one is. I read of a study that said over 40 percent of college aged women who suffered date rape or attempted date rape continued to have consensual sexual relationships with their rapist. That’s a significant minority, almost half. And they were more likely to continue a relationship if the rape… Read more »
Hell, if I only continued escalation for “hell yes!” responses, I’d still be a virgin.
@earthling
I don’t think the hormone aspect completely explains all. It’s just another part of the puzzle.
I think that betas rely on increased T-levels in women to get sex. Alphas can cause a libido spike in women at will, so they don’t rely on women’s hormone levels.
I read a story in Playboy some time back. I think it was one of the Brooke Burke covers. Anyway the story was by a woman talking about anal sex. She talked about how “A-man” “fucked her into her femininity” as she had to actively be passive. I don’t remember if she was still banging the dude or was “alpha-widowed” by him.
How do make a hormone? Don’t pay her. @morpheus – So right about the pressures and influences outside the marriage. And the same for your resolve to not supplicate to get her back. Sometimes Humpty Dumpty can’t be put back together. I myself failed at holding the marriage together while transitioning to a fully RP mindset. Things were going well and I had thought we were over the roughest part. Not to blame or gloss over my own fuckups, but the additional FI voices whispering into her ear can be a major handicap to making it work out even if… Read more »
“I read of a study that said over 40 percent of college aged women who suffered date rape or attempted date rape continued to have consensual sexual relationships with their rapist.”
These tend to be the Sulkowicz types who’ve been convinced by La Feminista that it’s rape if the guy doesn’t return her text messages the morning after.
Re: growing Islamic demography. IMO the narrative is such as it reinforces a Muslim dominance, the inevitable western death. Dominant Muslim men, submissive Muslim women. Lots of babies, right? Buy your prayer rug now while they’re cheap! Wait a moment… “Notably, four of the ten greatest fertility declines ever recorded in a 20-year period took place in the Arab world (Algeria, Libya, Kuwait, and Oman); adding in Iran, we see that five of these “top ten” unfolded in the greater Middle East.” “Fully eighteen of these Muslim-majority places saw tfrs fall by three or more over those 30 years —… Read more »
dr zipper
One thing I have wondered…. did any of my wife’s family, friends and advisors recommend she stay with me or was it all you-go-girl cheerleading?
Women can and will rewrite their own history, so you can’t really ever know. It may be difficult to let go, but there’s nothing gained by ruminating over it. This is why it matters what her friends are like.
I think that betas rely on increased T-levels in women to get sex. Alphas can cause a libido spike in women at will, so they don’t rely on women’s hormone levels. I’ve made this point before, but while ovulatory shift in women can be a boon or a bust for a guy, a Game savvy man can push past it or use it to his advantage. Women’s sexual peaks are definitely cyclic and are influenced by her hormones and wiring, but Hypergamy also can’t afford to be a slave to those influences. If the guy is a ‘hell yes’ man… Read more »
@AR – yep, it IS tough to let go; I also knew most of the same ‘friends’ so it seems like more betrayal piled onto an already shitty situation
Her friends are all divorced and/or single save one. Funny thing, the one that’s still married is the one that gave me the strongest IOIs and who I could have bent over had I the inclination.
Obviously still some anger. I use it to fuel my RP transition. Writing about it here is a tremendous help, thanks for the feedback.
@ Chris “These tend to be the Sulkowicz types who’ve been convinced by La Feminista that it’s rape if the guy doesn’t return her text messages the morning after.” I think that’s a rationalization to get around the uncomfortable truth about female sexuality. Evolutionary biologists have theorized that rape, particularly the date/acquaintance kind, was a way for men to get continuing access to sexual partners. Since sex, regardless of consent, meant babies in the distant past, the woman would do better to attempt to bond with the man so that he could provide for her and her offspring. Stranger rape… Read more »
@Frank632
https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/03/war-brides/
Her friends are all divorced and/or single save one. See the link below. Funny thing, the one that’s still married is the one that gave me the strongest IOIs and who I could have bent over had I the inclination. Do you understand why she did that? Obviously still some anger. I use it to fuel my RP transition. Writing about it here is a tremendous help, thanks for the feedback. For a lot of us, writing is clarifying. Putting down in words what one is thinking eventually leads to clearer thinking. That’s why Field Reports work, too. Things that… Read more »
RE: The enslaved by the church ‘feminist’
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/5d9yef/more_egalitarian_marriages_and_relationships_are/
More egalitarian marriages are less successful.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363176/Why-arranged-marriage-likely-develop-lasting-love.html
Somehow I missed Morpheus’ post above about the divorce.
Reading over the thread again I caught it.
That fucking sucks.
Rollo
http://bit.ly/2qm8Xcf
http://wp.me/pXWyH-bzT
http://wp.me/p3aTD-cbt
kfg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363176/Why-arranged-marriage-likely-develop-lasting-love.html
Good article. And I’ll bet there’s no positive correlation between ass fucking in arranged marriage and longevity of the marriage, as compared to ass fucking in non-arranged marriage.
@Morpheus
Sorry for your pain. Marriage is such a gamble.
I am curious about one thing for my own edification. Did even Dread fail? And if you can talk about it, how did you implement Dread, assuming that you did?
Ah Rollo just when I think I’m making progress an essay like this comes along with all of the listed Alpha tells, and I realise not one of them applies to me in my relationship. LTR of 17 yrs and mother of my 2 children only ever offered anal once in the first year of our relationship. I knew she’d done it once before in college. Then on a weekend away she was on her period and suggested we go for anal. Being the “nice guy” I was back then I politely declined. Fast forward 17 yrs and I’m asking… Read more »
“Comparison is the thief of joy”
-Ted Roosevelt
““The secret of being miserable is to have the luxury to bother about whether you are happy or not” -George Bernard Shaw
“does she swallow, is she averse to your fluids (sperm and saliva), does she initiate, does she flirt with you”
these are important questions!
https://twitter.com/alpharivelino/status/794636663096020992
@anon
Yeah, if we men were just dumber, we’d be happier. Comparison gives us intel about our wives and we realize the truth–that they just don’t find us desirable. Of course, our wives don’t do any shit that makes us unhappy because they resent having to have sex with us. It’s only when we learn the truth that we become unhappy.
/light sarc off
@ Spamela Keep it up. It can be done. I like your honest comment. I had a FR months ago, me, nasty sex talk, in the throws of passion, she liked it until…I pushed the anal envelope. She killed the buzz, immediately started testing me, the rest of the evening was violent, bizarre compared to our rough-stuff today. Reason: The more I became believably alpha, the more she sought submitting to all of it. She had to, her hindbrain told her I was pulling away. Her instincts were correct, and she’s cool with mixing it up now. Ignore crafty hypergamy… Read more »
Spamela
See the Middleman situation above. Forget red pill awareness become Alpha. As Ehintellect says the harder you go the faster the results.
Post your Field Reports and you van get better advice.
@Spamela I’m not a big fan of fast results when you didn’t enter the relationship with good Frame (wholly in her frame and then spent 17 years digging yourself into a deeper Beta Frame) which tend to be un-calibrated on the median. Your situation is not like any other, and you need to individualize your plan in Game. But I totally agree with Sentient, that you need to stop rationalizing and stop learning Red Pill Awareness (two years of that is enough). Learning more Red Pill is merely a Buffer in your situation and what you have to do is… Read more »
@Intellect
I try to not leave visible marks, hurting her, choking her down. Must maintain my effete character. Hee.
Wimp. Hah!
“you need to individualize your plan in Game.” Determining, accepting one’s personal character weaknesses is difficult, esp. when adding a dash of RP to a basis of BP. An ounce of rubbish in a gallon of ice cream tastes more like rubbish than ice cream. Knowing RP, applying it believably is work, patience, persistence. Subduing your weaknesses, quashing ingrained FI conventions, requires spine. Leaning over the edge is dangerous…there is a possibility of falling off. Nota bene: RP men stick the landing better, as RP is more than sex. BP men fixate on the now, the sex, their supposed failures.… Read more »
@Spamela In todays sexual environment the idea of male dominance is torn down from every angle,and the matrix would have us all believe that constitutes abuse,they are making progress in the propogation of this lie. This may be the hardest lump for most men swallowing TRP [men are dominant and women are submissive by nature] and while men may progress into gentlmen this realy doesn’t excite women sexually. As a promise keeper it was tough for me. Women find muscles attractive,but it only takes them a few minutes to find if those muscles are supported by any backbone.This backbone is… Read more »
@Ehintelect
What you said.LOL I owe you a beer.
I was married for 40 years before recently divorced. My wife was very fridgid. No anal, no head and mainly only starfish except when she was ovulating. Since the Red Pill I’ve dated a woman recently who was sexually just like my wife with her ex husband of 25 years. She never did anal with him and was very closed off. But with me she does anal all the time and almost always gives me great head. She goes crazy screaming that I take places she’s never been (sexually). It’s crazy….. She must think my SMV’s off the charts or… Read more »
I think you miss an important point about anal. It might not necessarily be that a woman does not want to fully submit to a man, rather, there are religious prohibitions against such even within marriage. Sodomy and Onanism are considered deviant practices that are not open to life.
How about this, I want a woman who struggles so hard between her desire to please me and her pretenses of conviction yet defies the gods in favor of fucking me with such abandon she’ll risk her soul and pray for forgiveness for doing so. THAT is desire.
@Radawn
There’s a danger to letting your kind be raised by another man. In all likelihood, this beta sucker raising your child is bull pill as hell, and coupled with the woman you just pumped and dumped, your kid is going to grow up blue pill.
That’s what communities are supposed to do. Cavemen figured it out and taught their sons and daughters their roles as hunters and supports, respectively.
@Rollo Tomassi is spot on…Desire overrides logic, reason and is shown through action. Yes, there are moral rationalizations that we all make and specially when it comes to religion and spirituality we factor those heavily. But raw, unsolicited desire is an instinctive reflex and that can override everything. It’s like holding your breath. You can cognitively hold it for a while, but eventually you lungs are going to create a biological response for air so powerful it will override your cognitive denial and you’ll forcibly be sucking air in again. The same with desire for someone sexually. While there is… Read more »
It’s simple really, no fault divorce have women all the power.
She can leave at any time, and take way more than 1/2 of what you have now and what you’ll ever have. Talk about dread.
Once married you have to “game her” or risk rape via divorce.
There is only one solution. To back to the divorce is not an option. Male dominated. Strict gender roles. women votes, etc.
If not, we collapse especially with a hillary, Warren etc presidents who Merkel us into demographic death
Heather (likely a type of troll)
It might not necessarily be that a woman does not want to fully submit to a man, rather, there are religious prohibitions against such even within marriage.
Both of them would know that prior to marriage, your objection is moot. There are sites where you can discuss religious restrictions on married sex your heart’s content. This isn’t one of them.
@SJF Once she has seen the 100% beta, it is impossible to “claw back” to alpha status. Abandon ship and seek new liaisons. What I used to think was mysterious has been so brazenly dissected it is almost sad. The magic laid bare. I used to see a guy do something subservient to a girl and cringe. I was at loss at what to say to someone to make it clear what was not right about it. It is after spending time in the manosphere that one realises it all boils down to stuff described by simple words eg gestures,… Read more »
By the way, Heather (a type of flower or something) since you did grace the site with your presence and opinion, could you tell us how many months a good, Bible reading, church going, raise-hands-high married woman should refuse to have sexual intercourse with her husband before he has any complaint? One? Three? Six? A year? I’m certain that you have no problem with a married, church going, Bible reading, very sacredly holy woman using sex as a weapon, or a doggy treat, or a lever. Just wondering how far is OK with you. Please do me the favor of… Read more »
The more I see behind the curtain, the more I hate them.
[…] Submission […]
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-02-anal-sex-linked-incontinence-males.html
@Everyone: I don’t know if it is because of my religious upbringing but I never felt the draw of anal. It’s like Sentient says he doesn’t really like it much compared to vaginal. Not that I ever tried though (he has), but I think unless someone asks me to I’m not motivated to push for it myself. There are also health issues, technically you should leave the ass for last not to cross-contaminate and such. Blaximus says that if a girl wants to try something and the guy doesn’t that is bad, but somehow isn’t that going into her frame?… Read more »
I think you miss an important point about anal. It might not necessarily be that a woman does not want to fully submit to a man, rather, there are religious prohibitions against such even within marriage.
.
That was pretty funny. I’m sure Bathsheba said “I’m not usually like this . . . I want to keep the commandment but . . . oh . . .”
. . . with an ONS and she asks him for anal but the guy just rather stick with vaginal, what do?
Grab her hair and pull her head back while saying “I’ll fuck you the way I want to fuck you” followed by a penetrating kiss. If she does not comply, stop and make her leave.
IAS You can’t go too wrong following the Platinum Rule [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it]… So in the moment, if anal is something you want to try, do it… if she asks and you want to – do it. If she asks and you don’t – don’t. If she begs and pleads? Maybe lol… Of interest I have a “Do a Scene with James Deen” contest, where women can submit an application, and then, after a very long talk and months of me saying, you know, “Everyone’s going to find out, it’s going… Read more »
Excellent post! Agree with you (and other commenters) that the best test is the “hell yes!” test. Media / society / etc. have built up this nonsense fairytale story of “building up” a woman’s interest by pursuing and wooing her to the point where she gives in and agrees to go out with the male who has put in the time and effort to win her over. That’s bullshit – and is a recipe for future disaster. The early / initial levels of attraction are the critical baseline of negotiation from which you work from, and you can only increase… Read more »
@Sensei, I agree with your take on enthusiasm being key, but I’m certain most PUAs will tell you that with good Game you can raise a woman’s buying temperature from ‘meh’ to ‘hell yes’.
https://therationalmale.com/2014/10/27/last-minute-resistance/
Very very true… (And another great post, thanks for the link.)
You can certainly spend “game” to warm up (wear down?) the object of your desire to the point where you finally get laid. Been there, done that. But it’s exhausting and (as you eloquently point out in your Iron Rule) – it’s never worth it in the end.
(In the end… Anal…)
🙂
It’s a fine line between “persevering” and “putting pussy on a pedestal”. Know when to stand up and leave the bargaining table, she’s not the only product on the market.
@ IAS, In the overall picture, a man has to drive the sexual relationship. The woman will follow if she has desire for. you and become a very willing and highly active participant. The burden that a grown man has, is to become sexually skilled. I think the specific idea of anal as an example is freaking you out a little. Don’t fail to fully grasp the concept. True desire is practically boundless. I guess this is where a measure of sexual compatibility comes in even though I’m not a real believer in that 100%. Religion is used as a… Read more »
Spamela SJF Ehintellect HABD Let me clarify this the harder you go the faster the results. in light of SJF’s comment: I’m not a big fan of fast results when you didn’t enter the relationship with good Frame (wholly in her frame and then spent 17 years digging yourself into a deeper Beta Frame) which tend to be un-calibrated on the median. I’m not saying you can change the dynamic with your wife overnight. I am saying that a) you can change YOUR dynamic (i.e. mindset) with a snap of your fingers, a flick of the switch and b) that… Read more »
“Naturally, Christian feminists and the Feminine Imperative the pervades the modern church (even amongst the men) want to dance around or prequalify this ‘commandment’ such as it is.”
Isn’t the word “Christian feminist” a oxymoron because today’s feminism promotes lieing and cheating which is breaking the commandments? LuL
@dr_warlock “To submit to a lesser man is rape. To submit to a superior man is harmony.” What a beautiful quote. And Krauser said that game is a series of compliance tests. The more interested she is, and the “better” his game is, or how “alpha” he is, the more compliant she is with the man’s requests for digits, isolation and the pussy/anal. Another golden post from Rollo. The interesting thing is that not only is a woman’s submission a behavioural choice, but it is also physical during sex. Women’s orgasms are determined by her perception of how dominant her… Read more »
“Anal is one thing, but does she swallow, is she averse to your fluids (sperm and saliva), does she initiate, does she flirt with you, or is sex something you have to negotiate, make appeals to her comfort (mental satisfaction) or some non-sexual qualification?”
This is one reason why all men should workout/confidence that comes with it. Bumb up your smv men.
@Blax
Anal seems weird because why would I want to put my dick in some broad’s shit? My dick deserves better.
I also am aware of a lot of anal reconstructions going on because of fecal incontinence. Both men and women. If you have a burrito, you can damage a broad. Maybe you don’t care. I do.
The anus is an out port, not an in port. The dick goes into in ports, like the mouth and vaj.
@ ASD
It’s a matter of personal preferences in the end ( no pun… )
I’ve listened to guys saying that oral is disgusting, and only a sick slut allows penis in their mouths.I’ve heard a few guys say that ‘ doggy ‘ is disrespectful to a woman and is reserved for sluts. Women on top is immasculating…. All sorts of shit.
Submission
http://bit.ly/2pTGcno
http://bit.ly/2psnYrO
I vote all the holes all the time.
@Sentient May 2, 2017 at 7:35 am Great explanation. I cosign the thoughts. (And now I realize that what you are saying there is the same thing that you have been saying from the start here at TRM.) It helps to Frame it correctly for And I have field tested this (flipping the switch in yourself, not going slow, owning your change). And it works. That’s also the message of the MRP reddit. My same feeling of doing this is the same feeling at the end when Rollo concluded his series of 4 essays on The Reconstruction. The last section… Read more »