Please, Breakup with Me!

Separation

The following is an excerpt from the Red Pill Reddit forum I’ve been following recently. I had an emailer ask me to opine about this situation and, for as much as I’d like to brag about having a previous essay for any occasion, I realized I hadn’t really covered this situation. Well, not in any great depth anyway,…

Bit of background: my girlfriend and I are both working people with solid jobs. Mine involves working partly in a lab a fair distance away from where we live, and I am gone for about 2 weeks a month. We have been together 5 years, and things have always been awesome between us. No major fights to speak of.

The incident happened last Saturday night. I was due to return the following Monday, and my girlfriend and a few of her friends had planned a night out, painting the town red. I knew about it, and this isn’t an uncommon occurrence and I paid no mind to it.

Saturday was a typically busy day for me, and I was really tired and went to sleep early that night, as I had to get up early to get back to work. Get back to work Sunday, not checking my phone as I was running late, and noticed lots of messages and voicemails waiting for me when I got to the lab. All from my GF: in all the voicemails, she was in tears, and told me that she’d been out dancing in a club and that she’d been fairly tipsy, but not really drunk.

Apparently some guy started dancing around her, (this part is absolutely unclear, I only know what she told me) and after some words exchanged, yada yada, he leaned in to kiss her, and she kissed him back. I don’t know how long, or any details, but she said she realized what she’d done and returned home as soon as possible, where she started calling and texting me.

I’ve been back for 2 days now, and I’ve only had 1 discussion with her. She was pretty much at my feet when I got back, asking for forgiveness, and honestly, I was nowhere near thinking of breaking up with her. We didn’t talk much that night, just laid in bed, me holding her, thinking we could work this out. No. She has been an absolute wreck since she woke up 3 days ago, won’t look me in the eye, left home crazy early, returns extremely late, and hasn’t been returning texts or calls.

She is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did. I don’t know what to do, I can’t reach her – I guess I have to give her time, but honestly, I’m barely holding on looking at her in her state. I bear no ill will towards her, I just think she made a mistake in the heat of the moment. I’m completely lost. I don’t know how I can convince her that I can move past this, and that I still love her. Even I have been near tears at times these past few days. I need a place to vent, I don’t have many people I can talk to, and I need to write down my thoughts.

TL;DR: GF made out with someone in a bar while I was out of town and is an absolute wreck right now, even though I think I can move past it and work at getting everything back on track. I’m lost and don’t know how to convince her. I don’t know what she is thinking and I’m barely holding on.

Now, a bit later he gives this thread a status update.

UPDATE: I left her a note yesterday night in the kitchen, saying some things, we can work past this, etc. etc. She left a note at the same place I had. There were wet patches on that paper, and she pretty much wrote she fucked up big time and she was sorry. (She had already said these things last time I saw her.) Also said sorry she had shut me out, she didn’t know what to do, and that she didn’t think she deserved me after the way I treated her the night I got back. She has left for work now – (true, I called up someone I know there) – and she said she is done being an asshole, and would come home to and (I quote:) ” get out of my life once and for all. You don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you this week.”

The TRP subredd commenters have pretty much covered the majority of what I would point out. We’re dealing with an abject Beta here who, like most Blue Pill conditioned men buys into the touchy-feely ‘open communications will solve everything’ fallacy. He also feels it’s incumbent upon him to follow the ‘be the bigger man’ meme and forgive her indiscretions (at least the ones she felt guilty enough to relate to him in a text). And really, what’s to forgive anyway? It was only a kiss, right?

For a bit of context, they’re both 26, and are living together. We don’t really know much about how long they’ve been together, but if they’re roommates (always a bad idea) I’m going to guess it’s been at least a couple of years.

What this guy is experiencing is actually a very common rationalization strategy women will use when they are saddled with a man their subconscious recognizes as Beta. In The Medium is the Message I point out that there’s really no such thing as ‘mixed messages’ and that women’s behaviors will generally inform a guy as to what a woman’s real intent is. This is a basic behavioral psychology principle; behavior is the only true measure of motivation and intent. Thus, all the verbalizing of intent, verbal rationalization of purpose and ‘open communication’ simply becomes a part of the behavior which Red Pill behaviorists then parse as true intent.

Yes, this can get tedious in the beginning, and yes, it seems like a huge waste of time trying to second guess a woman’s intent, but understanding what a woman’s ‘medium’ is informing you about is a necessary step to internalizing Red Pill awareness. Once you’ve had experience in this parsing a woman’s behaviors with the behavior that is her rationalizations, it’s from this point that a Red Pill aware man can begin to predict behaviors and become more effective ‘readers’ of what a woman’s actions is somewhat reliably telling them.

In this guy’s case his girlfriend’s messaging is pretty clear to any marginally Red Pill aware man. Her behavior is born from a desire to escape the domesticity of their live-in arrangement and while she’s ‘out with the girls’ she seizes an opportunity to engage in an extra-pairing affair. Naturally, what we ‘know’ from what’s related is that she got tipsy and just kissed a guy. As you might expect, the commenters on the TRP sub jump to what predictably happened and the speculation is a lot more than just kissing.

Evo-Bio 101

However, all speculation aside, we have to make a few basic connections here. My first expectation is that she was likely in the proliferative (pre-ovulatory) phase of her menstrual cycle. I can’t be certain, but I’m sure if the guy were to be objective, he’d see the signs. Second, her behavior belies intent, and thus she seeks an extra-pair encounter and puts herself into an environment that will likely facilitate it. The kissing (assuming that’s all it was) is still a behavior that indicates she’s open to a short term breeding opportunity (Alpha Fucks) and is looking, even if just temporarily, to escape her domestic situation with her Beta live-in boyfriend.

That’s basic evo-psych/evo-bio Red Pill awareness of women’s nature. What gets interesting is when she feels compelled to relate her “infidelity” to her Beta boyfriend. The first presumption we make is that she’s felt some pangs of guilt for having betrayed his trust, but as we’ll see this is in error. We make this presumption because, like this guy does, we want to give a woman the benefit of the doubt when it comes to guilt because men and women popularly believe that women have a supernatural gift for empathy. It simply ‘sounds right’ to believe that a woman had an error in judgement whilst a little tipsy, but again we need to see this situation objectively from an evo-psych/behaviorist perspective.

When I break down this Beta guy’s rationalization process you’ll begin to see how this presumption of empathy and his Blue Pill conditioned mindset actually works against this girl, but for now we have to get a grasp of her feminine subconscious and how it reflexively interacts with the sexual imperative of Hypergamy. Most women’s confessions of extra-pair infidelity isn’t rooted in guilt. That’s not to say women don’t feel guilt or regret, it’s just to say that the functional purpose of the confession doesn’t subconsciously originate in feelings of guilt.

When women ‘cheat’, even when it’s non-sexually, their subconscious is testing the man it suspects is Beta which she’s paired with for confirmation of him being Beta. This is potentially risky, of course, but such is the prime directive of Hypergamy that if it is subconsciously suspected that a paired-with man is less that Hypergamously optimal the long term benefits of confirmation outweigh any risks. Thus, a confession of infidelity from a woman should universally be interpreted as a Hypergamous shit test from men.

If nothing else, her confession of infidelity should be interpreted as a lack of genuine desire for a man – such a lack that it’s necessitated her behavior of engaging in genuine desire with another man. What rationalizations and verbal communications that follow from this point should be consider part of that woman’s behavioral set, and in terms of the Medium being the message, should be assessed as her medium.

So what do we see in this case?

I’ve been back for 2 days now, and I’ve only had 1 discussion with her. She was pretty much at my feet when I got back, asking for forgiveness, and honestly, I was nowhere near thinking of breaking up with her. We didn’t talk much that night, just laid in bed, me holding her, thinking we could work this out. No. She has been an absolute wreck since she woke up 3 days ago, won’t look me in the eye, left home crazy early, returns extremely late, and hasn’t been returning texts or calls.

he is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did. I don’t know what to do, I can’t reach her…

On the surface we have the reports of this guy stating that she’s wracked with remorse and asking forgiveness. Sounds reasonable enough, right? No talking, cuddling, comfort and consolation, but wont look him in the eye, leaves early, comes back late. The guy presumes she’s broken inside and can’t forgive herself, but her behaviors imply that she’s disappointed in his reaction to just the marginal amount of information she’d related about her “infidelity”.

In his update we get this part, emphasis mine:

There were wet patches on that paper, and she pretty much wrote she fucked up big time and she was sorry. (She had already said these things last time I saw her.) Also said sorry she had shut me out, she didn’t know what to do, and that she didn’t think she deserved me after the way I treated her the night I got back. She has left for work now – (true, I called up someone I know there) – and she said she is done being an asshole, and would come home to and (I quote:) ” get out of my life once and for all. You don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you this week.”

In the post Gut Check I mention how men’s subconscious awareness subtly informs their conscious awareness by picking up on shifts in behavior, attitude and environment. Through our socialization, acculturation and Blue Pill conditioning, men are taught to suppress this natural, instinctual messaging that our gut is telling us. We do so because we fear being accused of male insecurity, jealousy and not subscribing wholesale to the equalist idea that men and women are co-equal rational agents who’ve evolved past anything like our baser natures.

Yet here, with the benefit of Red Pill awareness, we can see a perfect example of a guy suppressing what his peripheral awareness is basically screaming at him. This woman has essentially verified his Beta status by his default willingness to forgive her Alpha Fucks indiscretions with few (if any) questions asked. That test failed, she now hopes he will actually get angry enough to break up with her. Again, test failed, as all of his efforts are directed towards his unconditional love and forgiveness.

Please, Break Up with Me!

This woman is vocally telling him “please, break up with me”, but even this is ignored and rationalized away in his Blue Pill conditioned mindset that tells him all they need is open communication to solve her Hypergamous equation. She literally tells him, “you don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you.” This is part of her medium, this is her subconscious attempting to tell his subconscious how and why she’s done what she has, but his Blue Pill conditioning has suppressed any hope of that message being translated to him. Bear in mind here, this isn’t necessarily a case of a woman being intentionally malicious. Often this process is one in which she is only playing out as a semi-aware actor of her Hypergamous subroutine.

I’ve had guys relate many similar story in the same vein as this one. In all of them there is a subconscious hope that a paired man which a woman’s Hypergamous instinct has designated as Beta will just get it and understand that she wants him to break up with her. This may be overt, but more often it’s subtle. She’ll leave clues, breadcrumbs, for him to follow that indicate her infidelity in the hopes that he’ll become angry and break up with her. Maybe its an open diary, or an open social media account, or maybe just small convenient absences that are out of the ordinary, but the trail is one her subconscious hopes her man will discover and react to.

There are many reasons for this. The principle one being she desires an easily acknowledged reason for her exit from that pairing. Even if she’s been unfaithful women maintain large social support networks that forgive them of their sins – and this primarily because her girlfriends are living out the same Hypergamous subroutines themselves. It becomes rationalized away, chalked up to her “journey of self-discovery”, not something she was proud of, but a necessary part of her life in becoming “who she really is.”

 Blue Pill men get a sort of double jeopardy in this situation. Their conditioning predisposes them to believing that a woman’s communication is to always be taken as honest and at face value. This is really the source of a lot of Blue Pill mens’ self-inflicted wounds. They believe the notion that women and men are co-equal, rational agents whose evolved consciousness places them above natural instincts. Thus, they never make the Medium is the Message connection. Instead they consciously repress what those instincts, their own and women, are telling them.

When this instinctual suppression is combined with Blue Pill deferral to women and their false assumption that communication is the key to solving all intersexual problems, then you get into this situation. One where that woman desperately wants a guy to get so pissed off that her drops the hammer and leaves her, like she’d expect any Alpha lover to do. However, his Beta disposition makes this hope for anger an impossibility and the very Blue Pill conditioning that made him so acceptable as a provider and a comfort makes her exiting the relationship impossible without her feeling some actual guilt for having to take the initiative to leave him.

And this is where real feminine guilt becomes unavoidable. She’s the one who has to kill the puppy because his Blue Pill conditioning wont allow for him to become angry enough to do it himself. This is where her real guilt and real resentment of him come into play for her. He’s too accommodating and to ready to rationalize away his forgiveness for her to avoid the bad feelings she’s hoped to engender in him.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Andy
Andy
5 years ago

re: Hero’s journey

I’m in the belly of the whale. lol. Realizing that my attachment to my kids is just as fake as every other fake emotion we ever have. That pisses me off, which is also fake.

What exactly is the upside to this shit? Seems like enlightenment = sociopathy.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Seems like enlightenment = sociopathy.”

KFG Maxim Number Something or Other:

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is a paranoid schizophrenic.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

“I have forever said ” Well, I’m off to my man cave…my whole fucking house.”” When in LTR: It’s my territory. She can live in it. If she thinks she can tell me where I can sleep in it, she’s out of her fucking mind. Usually I don’t hold a grudge over an argument or anything. She’s free to sleep with me if she wants. If she doesn’t, I’ve got plenty of extra pillows she can borrow. You can have a workshop. It’s not a ‘man cave,’ it’s just a place to keep the sawdust, peat moss, and oil away… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Andy

It’s not ‘fake.’ It merely has context.

The upside is, now you get to choose.

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@sfer I basically asked lots of people what their costume was. yeah thats an easy open…especially if you are very new and introverted, you can get a shitton of opens in real quick that way. its a shame he hasn’t been here lately, but for guys like digireaper thats a great way to get a lot of experience very quick…and most people are fairly up for chatting about their costumes. thats just a great newbie routine, if you get started around halloween (and this past one has been so great since it is a four day celebration), just go up… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Ohhhhhh for the love of…. Forge? HABD? Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?? Can someone respond to Andy in a reasonable fashion please. All I got is ” step away from the dark side..”. @ Andy – listen up. It is fully your choice in how you perceive things/life. The problem as I see it, is that you’ve spent way too much time latching on to the negativity that creeps into this comment section. Everything is bad and fucked and hopeless, and one must be 100% regional and logical at all times, no exceptions evaaarrrrr….. You always have a choice. Stop listening to… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

habd to Scribblerg 20/20 hindsight for me giving myself advice on this shit?… = daily mindfulness practice… at LEAST once per day… twice is more better… bc the effect builds over time/decays over time… this also has some lag time to full effect, so you need to know that the FI virus is going to be whispering in your ear about ‘how it’s stupid’/’waste of time’/’not effective’/’you’re not worth it’/etc… recognize that this is FI virus defending itself against removal from your operating system, and that means you are on the right track to success… it’s also a great approach… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Hank

Hank Moody saying it, no problem…

Rick Stratton saying it… Problem.

Have fun.

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Blaximus Andy

“Can someone respond to Andy in a reasonable fashion please. All I got is ” step away from the dark side..”.”

no time right now, but maybe later…

good luck!

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@ Andy I don’t pretend to know your pain…but there are people who do and have found paths to enlightenment. I won’t say much but my go-to when I’m lost/stuck is Victor Frankl, Holocaust survivor, slave laborer, wife murdered. Frankl believed that people are primarily driven by a “striving to find meaning in one’s life,” and that it is this sense of meaning that enables people to overcome painful experiences. “Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.”… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-910So8UWM
Enjoy Halloween

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

No worries, I’m fine. I’ve been accepting a new reality pretty much every week for the past 18 months. lol. This one won’t be any different. Reality is Reality. I’d much rather know the truth than live in ignorance. No going back now either way.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

Andy
Do you Journal?

mersonia
5 years ago

@Andy

” I’d much rather know the truth than live in ignorance. No going back now either way.”

http://i.imgur.com/Bpotvq7.gif

Way to go trooper. Don’t ever be scared to look at reality

scray
scray
5 years ago

another great halloween weekend. some good protips for situations where there is an overabundance of sets — i.e. big party holiday weekends talk to people without an agenda. it’s really just the best way to go. open the conversation out of genuine curiosity. now, when the opportunity presents itself, change gears, but I like to imagine each set or new group as like….a treasure box, and you’re just opening it and seeing what’s inside. this is just optimal for many reasons. for ex, if you open the box and you’re not seeing the spark or maybe just circumstances out of… Read more »

anon
anon
5 years ago

“Realizing that my attachment to my kids is just as fake as every other fake emotion we ever have. That pisses me off, which is also fake.”

Joy is fake. Sadness is fake. Anger is fake.
We’re all just chemicals, so we’re “fake” too.
Everything we think of as reality is “fake” in the same sense.
I’d say folks should listen to a song and lighten up, but music is just noise.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@AR Good! Chronic pain is my other professional thing. For people that want to know more, the best single non-professional book is ‘The Body Bears the Burden,’ though frankly we still don’t have a perfectly clear picture of all this so there’s likely some truth and untruth to any single source of commentary on it. @Scribb I’ve been giving your issue some thought, and I know that you’ve done every sort of therapy under the sun and have spent tons of time attacking your issues in a top-down fashion. I’ve got a different perspective for you, and though it has… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Surprised at the lack of comments on this here

http://www.tmz.com/2016/10/28/mariah-carey-james-packer-breakup-50-million/

Now check this out… not only were they NOT married, she claims she never even had sex with him…

LOL

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Blax I think Andy has good instincts to fall back on. It’s just his brain is in full ‘wtf is real‘ mode right now; that shit takes a bit to metabolize, and then you can go back to just being you – except with the realization that, hey, I actually can just DO the things that I WANT to do. All actions have reactions of course, but that’s just part of the ‘do I want to do this?’ equation. I don’t think he’s gonna go Anakin on us and put on a black mask and cut off his son’s hand… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@EhIntellect re: semen

That’s interesting research. I read about it a few years ago. Frankly, this all means that vasalgel can’t get here soon enough; as you note, only 5% of ejaculate is semen, so likely the benefits for a woman’s emotional health come from the rest of it – which you can give her with impunity if you’ve been clogged up.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

(besides, check out the sort of poon Scott Adams has been scoring since going full public untouchable lol)

Adams straight main lined Red Pill right after his Beta marriage and divorce…

Adams married Shelly Miles in 2006. She has two children named Savannah and Justin Miles. In a February 2014 blog posting he revealed that he is no longer married

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/20060731_082037_h28adam2-2.jpg

sfer
sfer
5 years ago

“re: Hero’s journey I’m in the belly of the whale. lol. Realizing that my attachment to my kids is just as fake as every other fake emotion we ever have. That pisses me off, which is also fake. What exactly is the upside to this shit? Seems like enlightenment = sociopathy.” One thing you can do is to think about what you thought about your parents when you were a kid. Would you really have enjoyed the current facebook-style look how great my kids are parenting. Interact with them in a way that you both enjoy and feed them. You… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ Forge

Good thoughts

@ anon

Then understanding” reality” is only a negative if we choose for it to be so.

Nothing is truly” positive” or ” negative” outside of atoms and electricity..😁

Reality is perception.

Make it positive for the win.

scray
scray
5 years ago

I’m in the belly of the whale. lol. Realizing that my attachment to my kids is just as fake as every other fake emotion we ever have. That pisses me off, which is also fake.

What exactly is the upside to this shit? Seems like enlightenment = sociopathy.”

lol dude. the upside should be the realization that just because it’s alpha != good. just because it’s beta != bad.

not everything in life is about pussy.

that’s why trying to backwards rationalize every possible behavior that is good as alpha is dumb as shit.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Sentient

yow, didn’t know the timeframe was that tight!

Before redpill:

http://i2.wp.com/img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2006/news/060807/scott_adams2.jpg

After:

comment image

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ Sentient

Mo money, mo problems.

I want a million from Packer because the story made me wonder again, why guys still want anything to do with Carey at this point.

That wondering made me uncomfortable. Packer should write me a check.

😁

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

“lol dude. the upside should be the realization that just because it’s alpha != good. just because it’s beta != bad.

https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/20/alpha/

https://therationalmale.com/2012/02/21/defining-alpha/

scray
scray
5 years ago

@forge The take home message here is that you are not Alpha because of your achievements, you have your achievements because you are Alpha. eh, it depends. some achievements are out of your reach if you go full alpha lol. look, an alpha and what is alpha is what turns women on, what makes them tingle, what makes them desire. it is not commitment. it is not relationships. it is not caring fathers. so trying to define any of that shit as alpha is silly. and love is just a function of attainability. who’s the highest value guy a woman… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  scray

May everyone here live in the virtues of manhood.
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-j8o

http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1NzW

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ Forge Thanks for the reminder links. I’d heard of ” alpha ” decades ago, but wrt men, I never gave it much thought at all. But when I started reading around the sphere, I paid more attention to the varying definitions floating around. For my money, Rollo has the clearest definition. However the sphere is preoccupied with one sole aspect. So lots of guys appear to still have a warped understanding. It’s that darn RP/PUA mashup thing. Of course” alphas ” can be committed and caring fathers. The ” mindset ” portion appears to evade many. Men I’ve known… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Scray

I agree, I can’t say I went through them line-for-line to test for 100% agreement.

However, I think Rollo’s point was more rhetorical than literal. Your actions stem from your mindset by and large, so an alpha mindset has a lot more to do with what you accomplish than what you accomplish has to do with your being alpha. The central point is that you can’t make a million bucks, point to them, and say ‘See? Women should desire me!’

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Blax Case in point is Vox Day’s whole separate ranking system, complete which Gammas and Lambdas and such, which while useful in some contexts is making a totally different point than Rollo is making with his alpha/beta distinction. It’s an easy, memorable term that just sounds positive and therefore tends to get attached to all sorts of different ideologies. In a similar way, they had to keep changing the word/phrase they used to refer to very low-IQ people, as whatever term they used tended to become an insult in common parlance approximately instantaneously. Retard, imbecile, and idiot were once medical… Read more »

scray
scray
5 years ago

@forge so an alpha mindset has a lot more to do with what you accomplish than what you accomplish has to do with your being alpha. eh some accomplishments are borne out of mixing in so-called “beta” mindsets. it just depends. the ultimate alpha would not accept any authority over his own and would resist any and all effort to that end, see e.g. Genghis Kahn, etc.. thus, pretty much everyone here and in the manosphere is some % beta/weak. and many accomplishments within this society must stem from that first impulse — you know, following some of the government’s… Read more »

mersonia
5 years ago

“Of course” alphas ” can be committed and caring fathers.”

No….. http://i.imgur.com/y2aMsUK.gif

I know what your trying to say but no.

scray
scray
5 years ago

@forge

to follow up on that….

like, the amount of alpha you have to be to slay 6-8’s isn’t like, unattainably high.

to start pulling 9’s and “10’s” on the reg, then it becomes another league of psychopathy difficult.

but you’ll never be full alpha (unless you want to all or nothing napoleon/caesar it)

maybe you’ll be more alpha relative to the immediate competition, but that doesn’t mean you’re just total alpha or your decisions are all alpha or what the shit ever.

sfer
sfer
5 years ago

@Scray Those Halloween tips look great. One thing I am finding as I become more social is that (mostly) everybody has a great story or something interesting to tell. @Hank thanks for the comments. “yes, the more you open, the more it becomes a reflex. Its is no longer “Okay…deploy opener…”Hey..how…are you…today….sir” You just do it because you want to. Same thing with being more sexual, or having more intent or whatever, the more you do it the more natural it becomes and the less you have to think about it and the more you just do it.” I have… Read more »

scray
scray
5 years ago

@sfer Those Halloween tips look great. One thing I am finding as I become more social is that (mostly) everybody has a great story or something interesting to tell. yeah man, you can use people’s great stories and experiences to build a lot of trust and intimacy really quickly. remember, the words that are most likely going to result in you getting it in that night are “I feel really comfortable with you” so going in and having only the goal of adding value to everyone else’s night is first priority. now, to do that, you have to what? assume… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Vox Day’s whole separate ranking system . . . is making a totally different point than Rollo is making with his alpha/beta distinction.”

Vox is looking at human social structure as a whole. His interest is in civilizations. He does fall a bit into the demographic trap.

Then you have Jack Donovan who looks at the social structure of just the men’s guilds (gang/tribe/whatever).

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Scray

Again, I agree. If you divide things down to individual, specific behaviors few if any men are 100% alpha. Or even 90%.

Not good or bad, as you note. It just is.

I’m just pointing out the rhetorical function of Rollo’s essay – it’s your mindset/actions that determine how alpha/beta you’re being, not some storehouse of past accomplishments you can tap into like a bank. That sort of thinking gets the causality backwards.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@kfg

Yes. And Rollo’s looking at the individual, so as to alter mindset from within rather than predict behavior from without.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“not everything in life is about pussy.”

Not sure why you would think this has anything to do with pussy. It has to do with removing my attachment to my kids. Because it isn’t real. Maybe some people can selectively delude themselves to be attached to shit that isn’t real, but I can’t. I guess the positive is that if something ever happens to them it won’t bother me as much. Still, not exactly fun.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Agent P “I guess part of the reason I got to thinking about it was the OMG / YSG debate about here and the insights offered about defending one’s tribe etc. I may be wrong but I take the view that mentoring is a two way street, it’s not all knowledge raining down from on high. I think we all have things to learn from each other and that learning accelerates in a field which is a high trust environment. (Thus we fitness test the shit out of new guys to make sure they do their homework).When we get to… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@HABD – Holy shit. You are walking around inside my head. I realized today, after reading your first comment that I had never processed the trauma of passing out in the ER. When I came to and they told me my blood pressure had dropped to 60/20, I felt like maybe I was going to die. Traumas have to actually (or close enough) be life threatening, and yeah, I never even classified it as a trauma. I never thought of the divorce as a trauma. Nor the situation with my daughter. I’m going to do revisualization on both of those,… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

You remind me of a character from Tolkien, whom he described as ‘seeing through a brick wall in time.’

Your comments are like a great meandering river that slowly, tortuously, yet inevitably carry you to the sea.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Scribb

That’s great news! I was afraid my ideas would be difficult to inactionable, but you’ve got a way forward already!

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Forge @SJF “You remind me of a character from Tolkien, whom he described as ‘seeing through a brick wall in time.’ Your comments are like a great meandering river that slowly, tortuously, yet inevitably carry you to the sea.” Is that good or bad? Sounds like hard and slow way of doing things. I guess with power and agency, the proof is in the pudding. Back in the first two years of college and first two years of professional school, I used to always hear classmates chime “this shit sucks, when are we going to get the good (easy, payoff)… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@ScribblerG “Mindfulness. Check. I can do a walking meditation which is so powerful. Started already, re: IAS on discipline make it a “minimum” for me every day.” Remember that James Frey and his book “A Million Little Pieces” about addiction? That Oprah lauded then bashed? The guy was a writer, poser, fraud, but he actually (if the book was fictionalized) had a penchant for going out an just physically walking through the pain and anguish. Actually putting one foot in front of the other. He did walking meditation. I also did that two years ago after being too sedentary and… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

Frey plagiarised Eddie Little’s Another Day in Paradise. Dr. John Dolan laid it all out in a great piece for The eXile, which I would link to, but it seems to have been put behind a paywall.

I suppose you should be grateful for that, because otherwise you might be up all night reading through Dolan’s archive. A great vicious little bulldog of an essayist.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“….. which I would link to, but it seems to have been put behind a paywall. I suppose you should be grateful for that, because otherwise you might be up all night reading through Dolan’s archive.” Well that’s what this: https://archive.org/web/ was designed to overcome. You get an old dead link in the manosphere, you can go back to it with the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. John Dolan’s essay was “A Million Little Pieces of Shit” in a take down of Frey who actually was a shitty little author. (Sorry for the earlier ramble on him, I still think Scribbler… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

I’m actually not going to actually stay up all night, but here are other John Dolan articles:

https://web.archive.org/web/20060207034921/http://www.exile.ru/archive/by_author/john_dolan.html

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

You bastard, I need my sleep

anon
anon
5 years ago

“It has to do with removing my attachment to my kids. Because it isn’t real. Maybe some people can selectively delude themselves to be attached to shit that isn’t real, but I can’t. I guess the positive is that if something ever happens to them it won’t bother me as much. Still, not exactly fun.”

Probably not fun for them either. An unattached, uncaring parent can do a lot of harm.

anon
anon
5 years ago

I’m kind of curious what the marker(s) for accomplishment are in a journey to self improvement that requires a parent to lose the feeling of attachment and connection to his or her children. How do you assess “improvement” there?

Putting oneself first (and as with all things, this is relative too…there are responsibilities that come with parenting) does not require losing the feeling of attachment. That’s like asserting that punishing a child for misconduct requires that you love them less.

anon
anon
5 years ago

Feelings are the result of chemical reactions in the body. Sure, they can be manipulated just like other things. I eat sugar, my insulin spikes and I get sleepy…we’re nothing but chemicals so those “feels” are as real as anything else about us. Those chemicals have also enabled humans to survive through generations and generations. So learning that chemicals are the reason we feel and responding with, “nothing is real I have to stop feeling attached to my children” is like discovering germs and deciding you have to live in a bubble now. Turns out we’re adapted to live with… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@Andy “It has to do with removing my attachment to my kids. Because it isn’t real. Maybe some people can selectively delude themselves to be attached to shit that isn’t real, but I can’t. I guess the positive is that if something ever happens to them it won’t bother me as much. Still, not exactly fun.” Andy, I’ve been there too as my 28year LTR fell apart. I think it’s a normal consequence of reevaluating your life and tearing yourself away from the BP model that had so far been your life. Eventually you’ll either blow it up or RP/dread… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Too much comfort in life appears to be a potentially deadly thing.

Idle hands, and all.

Not that reevaluation is a bad thing at all, but if you start rethinking your” attachment” to your kids, and it’s not apparent that you’re strolling down the wrong path, then the mental exercise might just be a bunch of bullshit.

Kids aren’t part of any ” problem”. They did not ask to be born, nor did they force their way into one’s life.

Just my 2 cents.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@anon:

The building of a new reality requires tearing down the old. It is not uncommon to go through a phase where the old reality is gone, but the new one is not yet present. Developmental phases are like that.

Andy is likely on his way to new type of attachment to his kids. One that allows him to better raise them to be adults off on their own by being more of an adult on his own himself, without clinging to attachment and holding them back.

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@scribblerg @HABD – Holy shit. You are walking around inside my head. like i said ‘just a tiny bit different bounce’… I realized today, after reading your first comment that I had never processed the trauma of passing out in the ER. When I came to and they told me my blood pressure had dropped to 60/20, I felt like maybe I was going to die. Traumas have to actually (or close enough) be life threatening, and yeah, I never even classified it as a trauma. I never thought of the divorce as a trauma. Nor the situation with my… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

thanks for those links/ideas… i’ve seen those before, but it never is bad to review that stuff… and for the lurkers/newbies working on the same issues…

good luck!

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

@kfg

Thank you. I just want to reiterate that this is not a decision or a choice. Nobody would choose this.

Roused
Roused
5 years ago

“So yes. Keep putting one foot in front of the other. Walk regularly as your life depended on it. But then get up and run one of these days. Sure it’s trite, but we just want to put a wind behind your back.” Good inspiration to keep moving forward. Laugh at my fucked up mistakes and make the best of what I’ve got right now. I haven’t commented much lately because I’ve been in a funk. After getting away this past weekend to go camping I feel much better. The past month was so hard, confusing and messy I just… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“You’re not my role models.”

Utah Phillips used to tell me, “Make sure your heroes are all dead. That way they can’t fuck it up.”

Roused
Roused
5 years ago

Just heard this song by Eminem in between work. Only a partial paste of the lyrics. Not Afraid I’m not afraid (I’m not afraid) To take a stand (to take a stand) Everybody (everybody) Come take my hand (come take my hand) We’ll walk this road together, through the storm Whatever weather, cold or warm Just letting you know that you’re not alone Holler if you feel like you’ve been down the same road (same road) Blax always has a great way of telling other guys he loves them without sounding completely gay. I don’t quite have that mastered like… Read more »

anon
anon
5 years ago

“Utah Phillips used to tell me, “Make sure your heroes are all dead. That way they can’t fuck it up.”

That is one hella good quote.

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@AR habd to scribblerg “so, what do you do when that happens in an operating system?… serious question, bc i’ve never designed/or troubleshot an operating system…lol” It can be called “priority inversion”. A lower priority system call grabs all the machine resources while a higher priority process can’t get access, in a bad case this results in system deadlock. Total system freezeup. People do this too in trivial and not so trivial ways. The other day I saw a small econobox rear-end a truck, just ….bam. Turned out the ditzy high school girl driving the car was too busy futzing… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Andy

@kfg

Thank you. I just want to reiterate that this is not a decision or a choice. Nobody would choose this.

kfg is right… it IS a choice… believing that it’s NOT is the FI pushing on you…

i don’t have time right now, but i’ll circle back to this when i get more time…

good luck!

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@HABD Another theory, postulated by Dr. Paul Levine, is that the post-trauma ‘processing’ is a unique process that is supposed to happen right after the trauma – but can’t if you’re distracted from what your body’s reflexes are trying to do. It goes like: stressor —> fight or flight; if fight or flight isn’t enough —> freeze response. The freeze response happens as a last-ditch ‘play dead’ reflex when you can’t beat back or escape a perceived threat. Dr. Levine observed this reflex in animals, and also observed that, after a period of catatonia, the animal would shake and quiver… Read more »

mega_guy
mega_guy
5 years ago

Glen … if ur still around … hang in there dude. Lots of other dude’s rooting for ya. Honesty is where its at. Truth is where its at. Lay it out there, do the work, things will get better. Trial and error. Find what works and what doesn’t.

Peace

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Forge that makes complete sense to me…lol… one of the rabbit holes i followed down in that ‘looks matter’ discussion indicated that data was stored (and passed genetically) as emotions (as problem solving subroutines) in the limbic system… it also indicated that cognitive processing can ‘override’ reflex… so, if the normal ‘trauma reset’ is a reflex, you can override that with cognition… (and i’ve seen that ‘shake out’ in animals before… and likely we do the same thing, like with the ‘somebody walked on my grave’ shiver…) AND, it’s even more likely that cognitive processing can actually PUT you into… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago
having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Forge

nice!… thanks!

has anybody developed a ‘shake out’ based trauma therapy, yet?

good luck!

sportsdroppings
sportsdroppings
5 years ago

On the flipside, this presents to the woman a perfect “plan B” should she not consolidate on a better alternative. Consider, she already knows that 1) he works long hours and weekends at a well paying gig and 2) will take her word at face value and “let things go.” So he’s perfect for lon term provisioning, and should she want a child, she can always get knocked up by an alpha and fuck him shortly thereafter to get plausible deniability, as his credulity and “presumption of paternity” laws will conspire to get her the long term provisioning for the… Read more »

sportsdroppings
sportsdroppings
5 years ago

I couldn’t help but think of this post as I watched the recent Scottie Pippen saga unfold. He’s handled this totally alpha from the start. His insistence on a pre-nup 20 years ago indicates he set the Frame, and thus his wife Larsa knew she had to be on point. Thus, she stayed hot (just look at her) and mostly out of the spotlight. Then, she started hanging out with the Kardashians, which was fine until she thought she could behave more like Khloe and start re-living her model days, jumping on planes of a rapper and canoodling with him.… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@HABD Yeah, though I haven’t seen scientific evidence that it works one way or the other. Elliott Hulse does Neurosomatic and Bioenergetic therapy; you can see him doing it here, though be warned it’s pretty damn intense lol one YouTube comment just said ‘the camera guy did not know what he was signing up for.’ https://youtu.be/cHFYEQRnQew He has some videos where he explains it a bit more….rationally rather than inspirationally lol. Also, just for fun, here he is teaching people a bit about it at an RSD event, if you skip to 25:30 you get to see him really lose… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Forge Another theory, postulated by Dr. Paul Levine, is that the post-trauma ‘processing’ is a unique process that is supposed to happen right after the trauma – but can’t if you’re distracted from what your body’s reflexes are trying to do. Makes perfect sense, fits observed behavior in all sorts of situations including combat. So: betaized man is getting yelled at by wifey for the Nth time, his limbic system wants to fight beause “yell” = “challenge” but he has a hardwired “Do Not” in his system, he wants to leave but can’t because he has a hardwired “Must Stay… Read more »

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[…] The Rational Male’s “Please, Break Up With Me” […]

sneha12383
5 years ago

I have a small doubt though…if she wanted him to break up with her, why not say she slept with the other guy than just say she made out with the other guy?

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@sneha

Maybe because she’s afraid that he will call her a slut…maybe she wants to keep him around as a beta orbiter…maybe she hopes that he will get it that she fucked the other guy and call her out on it, which would show that he is more alpha and understands women…maybe she can’t admit it to herself (if I don’t say it happened, then it never really happened)

OMEGA VIRGIN
OMEGA VIRGIN
5 years ago

Great article, after 1st para I could predict what you were gonna write without reading the title, even noobs like me are getting RP aware!

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  OMEGA VIRGIN
rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

Qcurtius
http://wp.me/p5MelF-1AL
Loyalty and backup

Ron
Ron
5 years ago

He wasn’t around she’s single she was attracted to him and has had sex with this guy. He was not there by accident. She invited him. Afterwards he drilled it. Oh he drilled it good. She immediately shut the other guy out. She moved on. She’s been seeing this guy for 4 to 5 months. There’s lots of sex. All he has to do is touch it. She’s using sex to get a commitment. The new guy is coming for sex, and she knows that. She wants commitment.

bluepillprofessor
5 years ago

>a confession of infidelity from a woman should universally be interpreted as a Hypergamous shit test from men.

This needs to be a law carved in stone somewhere.

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[…] Please, Breakup with Me […]

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[…] Çeviri Kaynağı : Please break up with me […]

SFC Ton
4 years ago

LOL this here Doc Mack is pimping

Ruben Gonzalez
4 years ago

I’ve been in a similar situation myself. I was pleased to have seen it through to the end and have the female break up with me, not me dumping her. Since then, I have met over a dozen girls and have never been dumped by any of them. Most of them, however, deserved it.

John
John
4 years ago

I think he should dump her. Not because of what she did, but because she’s a woman. Better yet, he never should have gotten into a relationship with her. Women are not worth the effort. Being around them is miserable. The add nothing to your life but try to take everything. Do the cost / benefit analysis and you’ll they are an all-around bad deal.

squaresvilleusa
3 years ago

LOL, the irony is delicious: He doesn’t want her to suffer from her actions, and his trying to keep her from suffering is making her suffer more!

Krystal La Espinosa
Krystal La Espinosa
3 years ago

Thanks for bringing my lover back, Robinson.buckler@ (yahoo). com.…………

Espinosa
Espinosa
3 years ago

Thanks for bringing my lover back, Robinson.buckler@ ( yahoo ). com

Veronicaowen1 (@Veronicaowen110)

Get Your Ex Boyfriend/Girlfriend Back! contact:________Robinson.buckler@ { yahoo } . com

ET
ET
3 years ago

This is exactly how women break up with you. As a guy you just think “Why doesn’t she just end this?” but that just isn’t how women operate. As soon as the games really start, including things such as concentrating on her ‘career’, you are sunk. See the signs and get out.

Madness
Madness
2 years ago

Cool story but she’s lying…
Watch behavior not words. She’s got another branch and it may not even be the dude at the bar.

James Kirby
James Kirby
2 years ago

Really great post. Excellent breakdown.

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