I received this email some time ago, but I felt it needed some serious consideration to give the concept the justice it deserved.
Rollo — You’ve been a major help to my understanding the underlying dynamics between men and women. I’ve observed them in bits and pieces over the years but never really understood the whys behind them or how to turn them in our favor.
It seems like one mid-term focus you have is on male-male dynamics, specifically fathers and sons. But I also wonder whether you’d consider writing more about bonding and support between men and how those relationships can anchor men’s lives at a time when male relationships are regarded with skepticism by larger society. Lately it’s struck me that men tend to innately trust the men they know and distrust those they don’t (and that it’s often the reverse for women). This inclines us to believe women when they decry the “assholes” who have mistreated them in the past while women are empathetic and credulous toward women whose character they don’t know and whom they’ve never met.
Many of us out here are lacking strong male relationships, and our small social circles translate to fewer men we innately trust and more men we innately don’t. Women seem to regard male friendships as a luxury at best–we should be focusing on career, family, and her needs–while women’s friendships are seen as a lifeline in their crazy, have-it-all world. Indeed, a man discouraging his SO’s friendships is widely seen as a sign of emotional abuse, whereas the reverse is “working on the relationship.”
This strikes me as a deep but largely untapped Red Pill well and could provide essential guidance for men looking to live a proud, constructive Red Pill life however women and children might fit into it. I’d definitely welcome your insights in future entries.
Look forward to every post!
Back in February Roosh proposed (and attempted to initiate) a worldwide event that would be a sort of ‘gathering of the tribes’ with the intent of having men get together in small local gatherings to “just have a beer and talk amongst like-minded men.” My impression of the real intent of in putting this together notwithstanding, I didn’t think it was a bad idea. However, the problem this kind of ‘tribes meeting’ suffers from is that it’s entirely contrived to put unfamiliar men together for no other purpose than to “have a beer and talk.” The problem with unfamiliar men coming together simply to meet and relate is a noble goal, however, the fundamental ways men communicate naturally makes the function of this gathering seem strange to men.
The best male friends I have share one or more common interests with me – a sport, a hobby, music, art, fishing, lifting, golf, etc. – and the best conversations I can remember with these friends occurred while we were engaged in some particular activity or event. Even just moving a friend into his new house; it’s about accomplishing something together and in that time relating about shit. When I lived in Florida some of the best conversations I had with my studio guys were during some project we had to collaborate on for a week or two.
Women, make time with the express purpose of talking between friends. Over coffee perhaps, but the act of communication is more important than the event or activity. Even a ‘stitch-and-bitch’ is simply an organized excuse to get together and relate. For women, communication is about context. They are rewarded by how that communication makes them feel. For Men communication is about content and they are rewarded by the interchange of information and ideas.
[…]From an evolutionary perspective, it’s likely that our hunter-gatherer tribal roles had a hand in men and women’s communication differences. Men went to hunt together and practiced the coordinated actions for a cooperative goal. Bringing down a prey animal would have been a very information-crucial effort; in fact the earliest cave paintings were essentially records of a successful hunt and instructions on how to do it. Early men’s communication would necessarily have been a content driven discourse or the tribe didn’t eat.
Similarly women’s communications would’ve been during gathering efforts and childcare. It would stand to reason that due to women’s more collectivist roles they would evolve to be more intuitive, and context oriented, rather than objective oriented. A common recognition in the manosphere is women’s predisposition toward collectivism and/or a more socialist bent to thinking about resource distribution. Whereas men tend to distribute rewards and resources primarily on merit, women have a tendency to spread resources collectively irrespective of merit. Again this predisposition is likely due to how women’s ‘hard-wiring’ evolved as part of the circumstances of their tribal roles.
From this perspective it’s a fairly easy follow to see how the tendency of men to distrust unfamiliar (out-group) men might be a response to a survival threat whereas women’s implicit trust of any member of the ‘sisterhood’ would be a species-survival benefit to the sex that requires the most parental investment and mutual support.
Divide & Conquer
In our post-masculine, feminine-primary social order it doesn’t take a Red Pill Lens to observe the many examples of how the Feminine Imperative goes to great lengths to destroy the intrasexual ‘tribalism’ of men. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution the social press of equalism has attempted to force a commonly accepted unisex expectation upon men to socialize and interact among themselves as women do.
The duplicity in this striving towards “equality” is, of course, the same we find in all of the socialization efforts of egalitarian equalism; demasculinizing men in the name of equality. A recent, rather glaring, example of this social push can be found (where else?) at Harvard University where more than 200 female students demonstrated against a new policy to discourage participation in single-gender clubs at the school. You see, women were very supportive of the breaking of gender barriers when it meant that men could no longer discriminate in male-exclusive (typically male-space) organizations, but when that same equalist metric was applied to women’s exclusive organizations, then the cries were accusations of insensitivity and the banners read “Women’s Groups Keep Women Safe.”
That’s a pretty fresh incident that outlines the dynamic, but it’s important to understand the underlying intent of the “fine for me, but not for thee” duplicity here. That intent is to divide and control men’s communication by expecting them to communicate as women do, and ideally to do so on their own accord by conditioning them to accept women’s communication means as the normatively correct way to communicate. As I’ve mentioned before, the most effective social conventions are the ones in which the participants willingly take part in and willingly encourage others to believe is correct.
Tribes vs. The Sisterhood
Because men have such varied interests, passions and endeavors based on them it’s easy to see how men compartmentalize themselves into various sub-tribes. Whether it’s team sports (almost always a male-oriented endeavor), cooperative enterprises, cooperative forms of art (rock bands have almost always been male space) or just hobbies men share, it is a natural progression for men to form sub-tribes within the larger whole of conventional masculinity.
Because of men’s’ outward reaching approach to interacting with the world around him, there’s really no unitary male tribe in the same fashion that the collective ‘Sisterhood’ of women represents. One of the primary strengths of the Feminine Imperative has been its unitary tribalism among women. We can see this evidenced in how saturated the Feminine Imperative has become into mainstream society and how it’s embedded itself into what would otherwise be diametrically opposed factions among women. Political, socioeconomic and religious affiliations of women (various sub-tribes) all become secondary to the interests of ‘womankind’ when embracing the collective benefits of being women and leveraging both their victim and protected statuses.
Thus, we see no cognitive dissonance when women simultaneously embrace a hostile opposition to one faction while still retaining the benefits that faction might offer to the larger whole of the Sisterhood. The Sisterhood is unitary first and then it is broken down into sub-tribes. Family, work, interests, political / religious compartmentalizations become sublimated to fostering the collective benefits of womankind.
While I can speculatively understand the socio-evolutionary underpinnings of how this psychological dynamic came to be, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out just how effective this unitary collectiveness has been in shaping society towards a social ideal that supports an unfettered drive towards women’s gender-coded need to optimize Hypergamy. This unitary, gender-primary tribalism has been (and is) the key to women’s unilateral social power – and even in social environments where women still suffer oppression, the Sisterhood will exercise this gender-tribalism.
Threat Assessments
Asserting any semblance of a unitary male tribalism is a direct threat to the Feminine Imperative. In The Threat I began the essay with this summation:
Nothing is more threatening yet simultaneously attractive to a woman than a man who is aware of his own value to women.
When I wrote this essay I did so from the perspective of women feeling vulnerable about interacting intimately with men who understood their own value to women and also understood how to leverage it. One of the reasons Game is so vilified, ridiculed and disqualified by the Sisterhood is because it puts this understanding into practice with women and, in theory, removes women from the optimization of Hypergamy. Red Pill awareness and Game lessens women’s control in that equation, which is sexy from the standpoint of dealing with a self-aware high SMV man, but also threatening from the perspective that her security depends on him acquiescing to her Frame and control.
Up to this point, Game has represented an individualized threat to women’s Hypergamous control, but there has always been a larger majority of men (Betas) who’ve been easily kept ignorant of their true potential for control. However, on a larger social landscape, the Feminine Imperative understands the risks involved in men forming a unitary tribe – a Brotherhood – based solely on benefitting and empowering men. The manosphere, while still effectively a collection of sub-tribes, represents a threat to the imperative because its base purpose is making men aware of their true state in a feminine-centric social order.
As such, any attempt to create male-specific, male-empowering organizations is made socially synonymous with either misogyny (hate) or homosexuality (shame). Ironically, the shame associated with homosexuality that a fem-centric society would otherwise rail against becomes an effective form of intra-gender shame when it’s applied to heterosexual collectives of men. Even suggestions of male-centered tribalism are attached with homosexual suspicions, and these come from within the collectives of men themselves.
The above picture is from an “academic” conference (class?) Mediated Feminisms: Activism and Resistance to Gender and Sexual Violence in the Digital Age held at UCL in London. There’s quite a bit more to this than just collecting and codifying the sub-tribes of the manosphere, more can be found here.
Now, granted, this conference is replete with all of the uninformed (not to mention willful ignorance) concern to be expected of contemporary feminists, but this does serve as a current example of how men organizing for the exclusive benefit of men is not just equated with misogyny, but potential violence. As a unitary collective of men, the manosphere terrifies the Feminine Imperative. That fear, however, doesn’t stem from any real prospective violence, but the potential for a larger ‘awareness’ in men of their own conditions and the roles they are expected to play to perpetuate a feminine-centric social order. They fear to lose the control that the ‘socially responsible’ ignorance of men provides them with.
Men’s predisposition to form sub-tribes and intrasexual competition (“lets you and him fight”) has always been a means of covert control by women, but even still the Feminine Imperative must insert its influence and oversight into those male spaces to make use of them. Thus, by assuring that feminine primacy is equated with the idea of inclusive equalism, all Male Space is effectively required to be “unisex space” while all-female sub-tribes must remain exclusively female. For an easy example of this, compare and contrast the reactions to Harvard’s unisex institution of campus club equalism to the worldwide reactions to, and preemption of, the “Tribe” meetings only attempted to be organized by Return of Kings in February.
Making Men
By controlling men’s intrasex communications with each other the Feminine Imperative can limit men’s unified, collective, understanding of masculinity and male experiences. Feminine-primary society hates and is terrified of men defining and asserting masculinity for themselves (to the point of typifying it as potentially violent), but as connectivity progresses we will see a more concentrated effort to lock down the narrative and the means of men communicating male experiences.
I’ve detailed in many prior posts how the imperative has deliberately misdirected and confused men about a unified definition of masculinity. That confusion is designed to keep men guessing and doubting about their “security in their manhood” while asserting that the feminine-correct definition is the only legitimate definition of healthy, ‘non-toxic’, masculinity. This deliberate obfuscation and ambiguity about what amounts to ‘authentic masculinity’ is another means of controlling men’s awareness of their true masculine potential and value – a potential that they rightly fear will mean acquiescing to men’s power over their Hypergamous social and personal control. Anything less than a definition of masculinity that fosters female primacy and fempowerment is labeled “toxic masculinity” – literally and figuratively poisonous.
This is the real, operative reason behind the obsessive, often self-contradicting, need for control of male space by the Feminine Imperative. Oversight and infiltration of male sub-tribes and instituting a culture of self-policing of the narrative within those sub-tribes maintains a feminine-primary social order.
Since the time in which western(izing) societies shifted to unfettering Hypergamy on a social scale there has been various efforts to demasculinize – if not outright feminize – the larger majority of men. Today we’re seeing the results of, and still persistent efforts of this in much starker contrast as transgenderism and the social embrace of foisting gender-loathing on boys becomes institutionalized. A deliberate promotion of a social constructivist narrative about gender identity and the very early age at which children can “choose” a gender for themselves is beginning to be more and more reinforced in our present feminine-primary social order.
As a result of this, and likely into our near future, today’s men are conditioned to feel uncomfortable being “men”. That discomfort is a direct result of the ambiguity and misguidance about conventional masculinity the imperative has fostered in men when they were boys. This feminization creates a gender loathing, but that loathing comes as the result of an internal conflict between the feminine-correct “non-toxic” understanding of what masculinity ought to be and the conventional aspects of masculinity that men need to express as a result of their biology and birthright.
Effectively, this confusion has the purpose of creating discomfort in men among all-male sub-tribes. These masculine-confused men have difficulty with intersocial communication within the sub-tribes they’re supposed to have some sort of kin or in-group affiliation with. Even the concept of “male bonding” has become a point of ridicule (something typical of male buffoons) or suspiciously homosexual , so, combined with the feminine identification most of these men default to, today’s “mangina” typically has more female friends and feels more comfortable communicating as women communicate. These men have been effectively conditioned to believe or feel that male interaction or organization is inherently wrong, uncomfortable or contrived, possibly even threatening if the organizing requires physical effort. Consequently, interacting as a male becomes ridiculous or superficial.
Pushing Back
What then is to be done about this conditioning? For all the efforts to destroy or regulate male tribalism, the Feminine Imperative still runs up against men’s evolved predispositions to interact with the outside world instead of fixating on the inside world of women. Below I’ve pieced together some actionable ideas that might help men come to a better, unitary way of fostering the male tribalism the Feminine Imperative would see destroyed or used as a tool of soci0-sexual control:
- While it is vitally important to maintain a male-specific mental point of origin, together men need a center point of action. Women talk, men do. Men need a common purpose in which the tribe can focus its efforts on. Men need to build, coordinate, win, compete and problem solve amongst themselves. The ‘purpose’ of a tribe can’t simply be one of getting together as like-minded men; in fact, groups with such a declared purpose are often designed to be the most conciliatory and accommodating of the Feminine Imperative. Men require a common, passionate purpose to unite for.
- Understand and accept that men will naturally form male hierarchies in virtually every context if that tribe is truly male-exclusive. There will be a reflexive resistance to this, but understand that the discomfort in acknowledging male hierarchies stems from the Feminine Imperative’s want to make any male authority a toxic form of masculinity. Contrary to feminine conditioning male hierarchies are not necessarily based on Dark Triad manipulations. That is the ‘fem-think’ – any male created hierarchy of authority is by definition evil Patriarchy.
- Recognize existing male sub-tribes for what they are, but do so without labeling them as such. Don’t talk about Fight Club, do Fight Club. As with most other aspects of Red Pill aware Game, it is always better to demonstrate rather than explicate. There will always be an observer effect in place when you call a male group a “male group”. That tribe must exist for a passionate reason other than the express idea that it exists to be about men meeting up. Every sub-tribe I belong to, every collective interest I share with other men, even the instantly forming ones that arise from an immediate common need or function, all exist apart from “being” about men coming together.Worldwide “tribe” day failed much for the same reasons an organization like the Good Men Project fails – they are publicized as a gathering of men just “being” men.
- Push back on the invasion of male space by being uncompromising in what you do and organize with passion. Make no concessions for women in any all-male space you create or join. There will always be a want to accommodate women and/or the fears of not being accommodating of feminine-primary mindsets within that all-male purview. Often this will come in subtle forms of anonymous White Knighting or reservations about a particular passion due to other men’s Blue Pill conditioning to always consider the feminine before considerations of themselves or the tribe. It is vitally important to the tribe to quash those sympathies and compromising attitudes as these are exactly the designs of the Feminine Imperative to destroy a tribe from within.Make no concessions for competency of women within the tribe if you find yourself in a unisex tribal situation. Even the U.S. military is guilty of reducing combat service requirements for women as recently as this month. If you are a father or you find yourself in a role of mentoring boys or young men it is imperative that you instill this no-compromise attitude in them and the organizations that they create themselves.
- The primary Red Pill / Game tenets that you’ve learned with respect to women are entirely applicable in a larger scope when it comes to resisting the influences of the Feminine Imperative. Frame and a return to a collectively male-exclusive Mental Point of Origin are two of the primary tenets to apply to non-intimate applications of resistance in terms of aspects of society. Observations and the Red Pill Lens should inform your interactions with women and men on a social scale.
Finally, I want to close by restating that my approach to resisting the influences of the Feminine Imperative on a meta-social scale is the same bottom-up approach I used with unplugging men from their Blue Pill doldrums. Once men have taken the first steps in Red Pill awareness this new perspective has a tendency to expound into greater social understandings and a want for applications beyond hooking up with desirable women. That Red Pill awareness becomes a way of life, but moreover, it should inform us as men, as tribes, about how best to maintain ourselves as masculine-primary individuals and organizations.
[…] Tribes […]
Nice post. Readers should note how both concerned and confused the Brit feministsas are with their PowerPoint pseudo-Venn diagram. This unitary, gender-primary tribalism has been (and is) the key to women’s unilateral social power – and even in social environments where women still suffer oppression, the Sisterhood will exercise this gender-tribalism. Men I know who have been in corners of the Moslem world such as various ‘Stans report that even though women may be confined within a family compound, they pretty much rule that compound. This is why. Even the lowest ranking new wife still has someone to “get her… Read more »
By the way, the pic reminds me of one of the recruiting campaigns for the US Army from a few years back, that whole “There’s strong – then there’s Army Strong” bit.
The Red Pill says: “I get strong because I want / need to. There’s strong, and then there’s FU strong”.
Thanks AR, fixed.
Wow… blows my mind that TRM and other RP sites would be the subject of a feminist class. As they are reading this site they can learn something about men’s concerns and feelings and move feminism towards real equality and not just a modernised form of trad. conservative seeking to subvert men to their purposes. If they are similar to the likes of IB, Karen, and Miss Emily, then manipulative female chauvinism (tribalism) and emotional manipulation will be the challenge for good women, who actually care about men and women equally, to overcome.
This post should be signed:
Dr. Rollo J. Tomassi, Professor Emeritus
Back in the late days of high school and for a few years after a group of us friends used to drive to a cabin on a local lake which was owned by one guy’s family. The purpose of the trip was to party as hard as we could for a couple days and then head home. Eventually, as is natural at that age, some of the guys paired up with serious girlfriends. As I’m sure you readers can guess, these guys were under pressure to bring their girlfriends with them, and so they did. The entire vibe of the… Read more »
Great post. I think that the origins of this really were, to some degree, to enhance female “safety” in the context of early human tribal organization being based on kin-bonded males. That is, women who were not relatives were brought into tribes based on male kin-bonds, and had to find some way to establish some degree of solidarity with each other, despite not being kin, in order to have some counterweight to the strong bonds among the kin-bonded men. Conversely, men developed in this context a tendency to trust a very limited circle of men, because they were in competition… Read more »
I’ve been thinking a lot lately about this. A relative recently sent me a mini biography he’d written about one of our common forefathers back in Boston and it was amazing to see how connected men used to be able to be to other likeminded men. This ancestor was a member of the Boston Light Dragoons, the Oddfellows, the Freemasons, the Republican Party and in a very active evangelical Methodist church. All of these organizations were extremely active as well. Everything from charity, to training for war, to business ventures to worship. The Internet has been invaluable to me for… Read more »
all Male Space is effectively required to be “unisex space” while all-female sub-tribes must remain exclusively female. A good example of this are the Scouts and Girl Guides organizations. Girl Guides is strictly female only while the Scouts has been completely co-opted to the extent that many Scouts groups have more girls than boys. I feel that your point of being ruthless with female intrusion into male spaces is extremely important but also difficult to achieve in practice, particularly if you yourself are new to the group. I think that they only way to reasonably achieve this is by forming… Read more »
@Adam, great example and one I knew but overlooked. Thanks.
The Patriarchy (the cabal) is more a projection of The Sisterhood onto men than anything else. Women simply assume, since it is innate to themselves, that there is some sort of Universal Brotherhood that men invoke to have each other’s backs.
They simply do not understand male social interaction, at all.
Yes, kfg, it’s a projection — they assume that we are like them because that is how *they* are, and if they were big and strong like us, that is how *they* would be. That is why women in political power are such a problem — they act in an inherently sex-biased way, and this is deeply wired in. I’d say that the most startling example I’ve seen of women vastly favoring the members of their sex, strangers or no, is seeing it applied to females of other species. I remember when a filly won some major horse race a… Read more »
Blake’s funeral is in two days
‘interchange of information and ideas.’ mookmode + learning
just did a 103 mile run but was a pacer for 50 miles.
I bonded with my buddy M
being miserable rips away complaints and condemnation or critizing.
“I remember when a filly won some major horse race a few years ago . . .” Rachel Alexandra won the Preakness in 2009. I didn’t notice it myself, but that’s the most recent. I remember when Genuine Risk won the Derby in 1980. Only the second filly to do so and the first was back in 1915. She also came second in the Belmont and Preakness, the best any filly has ever done in the triple crown. Women went horse crazy. I note that she was a failure as a breeder. And there there’s the sad case of Ruffian:… Read more »
Novaseeker Yes, kfg, it’s a projection — they assume that we are like them because that is how *they* are, and if they were big and strong like us, that is how *they* would be. That is why women in political power are such a problem — they act in an inherently sex-biased way, and this is deeply wired in. Not just politics. Women in top management tend to act in the manner they think men act – autocratic, impatient, demanding – but often coupled with normal female risk aversion. The results at such companies as Yahoo, HP, etc. are… Read more »
Wow. Great post. Feminists are shooting themselves in the pussy, not in the foot. I’m glad I wouldn’t be around when future men wear yoga pants. Look at this quote : “”If I want my son to love and respect women, I am going to have to teach him to embrace – and ideally appreciate – “girlish” things. That’s why I’m weaving him a dandelion crown and signing him up for ballet. I’m going to turn the little alphabet belcher into a proud princess whether he likes it or not.”” http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/why-im-teaching-my-son-to-embrace-girly-things/article29629855/?service=mobile Warning! Do not read this article before you go… Read more »
I think men have a natural distrust for out of group males is because, I don’t know if it’s a survival thing, but since men are doers, that means they need to compete or at least be good at something. So men need more than a shared experience or common interest to let somebody in the group. When men compete, they compete with everybody. Using athletic or physical examples, you don’t have separate standards for men to meet. You’re either good enough or not. Women only compete with other women. Or the standards get changed for them, and then you… Read more »
Water Cannon Boy, if I am going out with my dogs and my spear to kill something big like a buffalo I want the men with me to be trustworthy, because my life depends on them and vice versa. If some big piece of meat turns and charges…we all know what to do. Or if I have to stand outside my village with a spear because the bad guys from over the hill are coming a-raiding, I want the man on my right and the man on my left to be men that won’t cut and run. These are the… Read more »
I get what you mean. I was thinking more in the context of goal oriented. Which survival back in the days of actual threat to life was a goal. But in modern time, you form a group around a common interest, like a motorcycle club, it’s because of more than a common interest. Each man in the group is going to want to be a good rider.
By the way, my first post looks redundant now because I made it half way thru reading the article.
It’s okay to have women’s book club but man’s book clubs ? Oh no, that is sexism.
Or,
Just watch when you see a lesbian couple, pay attention to the reincarnated masculine women and how wonderful and masculine Jenny is (!).
And wait till you start seeing Dykes meetings to discuss masculinity “challenges”.
But in modern time, you form a group around a common interest, like a motorcycle club, it’s because of more than a common interest. Each man in the group is going to want to be a good rider.
And there’s ways each man can help other men to be better riders.
We need more stuff like that.
“Women’s ingroup preference is a logical result of tribes trading women, raiding for women, tribes losing men on the hunt, losing men in fights, etc. It’s deep in the genes.” They didn’t have to be traded. I think it’s more a result of getting down to the very basics of women’s lack of being able to physically defend themselves against men. Why does the heavyweight champ, especially while he’s on top at least, get so much admiration across economic, status, and social scales? Because you can think and feel any way you want about him. But say the wrong thing… Read more »
@Water cannon boy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae
One foot took out the spartan army…
Shame
Honor
And love.
Values and culture also play a part. By farther’s older brothers by mentors elders…
Posturing is masculine to the core. You used to have to be able to take a lethal hit while being in a possession to deliver one.Tribes fight for home soil. “culture” can change that.
Guilt based and shamed based society also play a part.
Men seem to be better at assessing and agreeing on value. When you get a set of musicians together, they know who’s good and who isn’t and they quickly working out who is above who in competition. As part of our experience, we may not like not winning but we, along with others, hone a sense of value and we know how to fall in line together. There are evolutionary reasons behind this. Women on the other hand often focus on their feelings and esteem and what they end up doing is clouding the assessment and agreement of value in… Read more »
The funny thing is for all intents and purposes women can’t bond like men, they stand in opposition to men not in solidarity with one another. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I work in a predominately male job (90% male out of 400 workers) and yet for lunch women will for the most part sit alone and apart from one another. They’ll literally try and sneak into a male group but we push them away with vulgar jokes. Nothing beats male comradery and I’ll be damned if I’ll listen to miserable chick prattle on my down time.… Read more »
At my age, I find it hard to find real men to hang with. The guys I know are all sheep. They supplicate women. One guy who recently married let his wife go on a long girls holiday but was afraid of hanging out for drinks with me because she might not approve. I find it hard to find guys who just want to hang out with, have drinks and talk Red Pill….it doesn’t exist in my world. My plates meantime…seem to get it and get me. Increasingly they’re buying gifts, dressing up hot for me, cooking or trying to… Read more »
“It’s actually a law of power to despise what you can’t have, and deductively it makes sense” read this. Read it again. And again. And again. Because this is your brain on red pill. That was written by Rollo in a former post and it makes sense why a bunch of whiners and losers would despise women so much. You can’t get “the one” or any woman above a 6. So instead of dropping the “I need a 6 or hotter chick” mentality to feel good about your fat, average, boring existence, you “unplug”=hate women and blame them for your… Read more »
@Rollo, Adam: Another good example are gyms. There are women-only rooms or whole gyms as “safe spaces”. I guess whole chains like Planet Fitness also count, I read that if you can’t deadlift heavy in some of them, nor grunt too loudly. Because it would make the women there uncomfortable, perhaps?
Is the fact that female style communication is normative correlated with (and / or part of the cause) of the general trend for the withering of clubs (be they sport or whatever) and community organisations? In my neck of the planet even the bikie gangs are ‘aging out’ and disappearing due to lack of recruitment. I see the same thing with the ski club (predominantly male due to the demanding terrain of the area we operate) I’m with. Any recruitment of young blokes is generally due to their dads joining and dragooning the son(s). Rugby clubs struggle for numbers and… Read more »
You’ve knocked this one out of the park mate. I wasn’t a fan of Roosh in his pua days and I understand his current business model is outrage=clicks = $$$. But at least he puts himself out there… where is ruthlessly torn apart by the femedia. Any variation from FI approved speech is hate speech by definition. I spoke to women about him and they 100% believe he is pro rape. It doesn’t matter that it’s utter nonsense and he denies it, if the herd says it it must be true. Any meeting of men is distrusted by the Fi,… Read more »
@Wolfsheep you sound vaguely familiar. Sure its easy enough to get around bans with alt emails, proxy, vpn, etc, but have you heard of taking the hint? “He’s always saying on one hand how men are the conqueres, builders etc then how and when did women coopt the world?” LOL, men _are_ in charge. A very tiny minority of men. A great way to maintain this increasingly inequitable system is to turn people against each other through social engineering. Pit race against race, class against class, and now even men vs women to break up the family. I have a… Read more »
Allow me to reiterate the praise for this article. If I may speak of myself: I may be a boomer but I attended an all-male boarding school with a number of ethnic students including a small cohort of Chinese and thus my recollections of male bonding mirror exactly the line of the article; I was not subjected to female-centric ideology. When, recently, my new buy-to-let neighbour arrived, we – otherwise strangers – instantly (he being male) fell into coherent discussion as to how to improve and protect the structure of the building. We get on well by reason of our… Read more »
@wolfie. LOL! Your attempts at framing TRM readers is feeble, but very revealing of your own fears and insecurities. Mmmm…. who gets upset over guys wanting genetically ideal and fertile females (i.e young & >HB6), which is the male biological imperative?
Oh look; a sheep in wolf’s clothing, in sheep’s clothing.
How cute.
I have no doubt that a woman centric imperative runs through society. I question how long it has existed. It seems a lot of writers treat it as if it arose about the time feminism started becoming dominant in society. I’m having a hard time buying this. Feminists tell us that their origins were in fighting the oppression of women by western society up until the 20th century. Most writers, even manosphere writers, pay a nod to this version of history. However, was it actually true that women were oppressed in our society simply because they were women? I ask… Read more »
@Becker:
https://therationalmale.com/2013/01/02/the-feminine-imperative-circa-1300/
https://therationalmale.com/2013/03/27/hail-to-the-v/
Several years ago, a stay-at-home mommy in my neighborhood was telling me about her husband going on a long weekend “hunting” trip, using fingers to illustrate quotation marks when she said hunting. I asked what she meant by “hunting.” She said it’s not really a hunting trip, it’s just a bunch of guys renting a cabin and getting drunk around the campfire all weekend. But some of the guys have to tell their wives it’s a hunting trip, because if they tell what they’re really going to do all weekend, the little wifeys won’t let them go. Then, I no… Read more »
” . . . was it actually true that women were oppressed in our society simply because they were women? ” No. They had some of their behaviour restricted and were assigned certain responsibilities, but so it was for men as well. The foundation of society, as it is in virtually all sexually reproducing species, is gynocentric, and thus men have always been to some degree disposable and women privileged. Eggs are expensive while sperm is cheap and shit. When men hold power they use it, in the main, for the support and protection of women, at the expense of… Read more »
“At my age, I find it hard to find real men to hang with. The guys I know are all sheep. They supplicate women. One guy who recently married let his wife go on a long girls holiday but was afraid of hanging out for drinks with me because she might not approve.”
@walawala
Same here. It’s frustrating.
some very male spaces that by their nature resist FI push:
real weight rooms, all undeveloped National Forest and BLM land (our birthright), workshops where real things get manufactured/maintained, bbq pits/smokehouses, cigar clubs
if there is metal, machine noise, weather, smoke/exhaust and or no bathroom, the space is ours. sounds pretty good to me.
Great, timely post.
Great essay Rollo! It’s nice to see the actionable advice in the bullet points similar to the post on Red Pill parenting. @walawala and Andy Keep in mind what Rollo pointed out twice in the OP. Because men have such varied interests, passions and endeavors based on them it’s easy to see how men compartmentalize themselves into various sub-tribes. Whether it’s team sports (almost always a male-oriented endeavor), cooperative enterprises, cooperative forms of art (rock bands have almost always been male space) or just hobbies men share, it is a natural progression for men to form sub-tribes within the larger… Read more »
“At my age, I find it hard to find real men to hang with. The guys I know are all sheep. They supplicate women. One guy who recently married let his wife go on a long girls holiday but was afraid of hanging out for drinks with me because she might not approve.” @walawala Same here. It’s frustrating. I have the same experience, although I can’t honestly say it’s frustrating. I’m surely better off doing various things on my own if the alternative is to hang with betas who just cede control over their own free time to their girlfriends… Read more »
@Montuehappydays
I spoke to women about him
knock this off you stupid cunt
Don’t talk about Roosh with women. Don’t talk about Rollo with women. Don’t discuss TRP with women.
The purpose of the trip was to party as hard as we could for a couple days and then head home. Eventually, as is natural at that age, some of the guys paired up with serious girlfriends. As I’m sure you readers can guess, these guys were under pressure to bring their girlfriends with them, and so they did. My experience is generally the opposite: girlfriends show no desire to go along to such events, and in fact they seek to isolate their new-found partners from their male friends, to assume more and more control over his social life. On… Read more »
“When I look back at where the opportunities were for me to meet and keep guy friends, they were in hobbies. Looking back this was a by-product of going out and doing something I really was interested in.”
@SJF
Curious. Are there any younger guys you’ve found open to red pill stuff, or mostly your age? I know some older guys, but I just don’t have much in common outside of the one reason I know them.
>>>it makes sense why a bunch of whiners and losers would despise women so much. It makes sense why a woman would whine about men being a bunch of whiners and losers because you have no good arguments, only shaming language. Sorry cup cake. We are not going to be forced back into our little stalls and we are not going to shut up. This is going mainstream and every one of those little boys you have conspired to destroy is going to learn the truth about their oppression. I am sure that is terrifying to you. Rollo has his… Read more »
Yes a few years ago I organized a rebuilding of a major structure at our club to circumvent the normal board or directors, for it was populated by FI types who really hate this particular structure due to it’s 100 year history of explicit and proud identity as a beacon of masculinity and good natured debauchery. (Don’t let your daughter party there). It was a volunteer effort and we managed to do a shit load of work in three days with a rotating group of 45 people or so. It was very explicitly sexist in how I organized it. “Yes… Read more »
Roissy Maxim #?: The closer you get to the truth, the louder women screech.
@Andy I actually think that one of these days in the not so distant future, that there will be a simpler way to meet red pill guys in a fight club kind of way. I hooked up with deer habitat enthusiasts through a sportman’s forum by actively and vigorously pursuing them offline to do things in real life. Once again it was the passion for the hobby that drove that. And for some of us red pill awareness and game is a passion and a pursuit. So there is that. Red pill blogs are kind of pushed underground by the… Read more »
@SJF I didn’t dismiss RoK’s meet up because it didn’t have merit, in fact I thought it was a good idea. It’s just that Roosh preplanned it to be a publicity generating clusterfuck. What inspired this post was coming to understand the many sub-tribes I participate in without really calling them “tribes”. I go from the gym in the morning, to working with my design team, to working with my promo teams, to hanging with the guys I fence with, to the group of guys I sled with, to the guys I share a nerdy hobby with, to the men… Read more »
It’s funny that both of my best friends characterize our relationships as being about almost everything but speaking. We build, maintain, drink etc but we are all economical with our words when together and quite happy for it.
@rollo “When I wrote this essay I did so from the perspective of women feeling vulnerable about interacting intimately with men who understood their own value to women and also understood how to leverage it. One of the reasons Game is so vilified, ridiculed and disqualified by the Sisterhood is because it puts this understanding into practice with women and, in theory, removes women from the optimization of Hypergamy.” um, I’d submit that it’s more about control over the direction of hypergamy. game + circumstance (those two together = your current social status) allows any man to sleep with pretty… Read more »
Great post Rollo. I know you try to stay away from being too prescriptive but I like some mention of action – it serves to add some focus and a sense of conclusion to the post (even if it is stuff that could be inferred by reading the rest of the post). I do have a few male friends who I *do* catch up with just for a beer or dinner etc but that’s more a question of maintaining friendships that have already existed for years. In each case the friendships were *formed* through a common activity – work and… Read more »
“The Patriarchy (the cabal) is more a projection of The Sisterhood onto men than anything else. Women simply assume, since it is innate to themselves, that there is some sort of Universal Brotherhood that men invoke to have each other’s backs.”
This is an excellent point. And this projection applies to many other aspects of female behavior as well.
“hey lets just hang out, drink beer and talk, maybe ya know ‘male bond’ a little bit, waddaya say?”
Protip: Don’t let a feminized poet take you out into the woods.
““The Patriarchy (the cabal) is more a projection of The Sisterhood onto men than anything else. Women simply assume, since it is innate to themselves, that there is some sort of Universal Brotherhood that men invoke to have each other’s backs.”” this is one of those overcorrection things. it’s like how dudes in the manosphere assert that racism isn’t a thing any more or various other -isms don’t exist. Patriarchy -is- a thing. The primary moral, social, and economic authorities are men. Look at SCOTUS, look at congressional leadership, look at CEOs of fortune 500 companies, look at Church leadership.… Read more »
In that exhibit the term “mangina” is lacking. That’s where sites like the Good Man Project belongs. Their writing is so damn lame and blue pilled hilarious to say the least. They claim they eat stereotypes for lunch around there… guess they are practicing cannibalism.
SJF, “When I look back at where the opportunities were for me to meet and keep guy friends, they were in hobbies. Looking back this was a by-product of going out and doing something I really was interested in.” Yes, but for me this approach is burning off with age. As a younger man this was more fruitful. The relationships I forged under the shared pain and commitment of competitive sports and other unique pursuits in college and beyond birthed friendships that remain to this day – some 20 years later. But in the sloppy years running up to middle-age,… Read more »
“Patriarchy -is- a thing.”
@scray
It “appears” to be a thing. It’s just the last remnants of the way things used to be IMO. “the patriarchy” implies that women are striving to be at the top at the same rate as men. That just isn’t true.
@andy I just go by the definition of patriarchy: “Patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power, predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property.” by that definition, ya, it’s here and it’s real. it doesn’t imply women are doing anything. i’m sure a feminist would say women are discouraged blah blah blah. idk and idc. i don’t get the manosphere rush to just deny the world’s injustices (if you think patriarchy is an injustice). like just because patriarchy exists doesn’t mean that modern feminism is infallible or actually even that… Read more »
“i don’t get the manosphere rush to just deny the world’s injustices (if you think patriarchy is an injustice).”
Hmmm, yeah. BTW, what are the requirements to start referring to the manosphere in the third person? Level 50 Druid PUA or something?
Men have tribes. Women are part of the “herd” or sisterhood. All women are part of the herd. You needn’t qualify — just being a woman gains you admission to the herd. The only way to get kicked out of a herd is to decide you’d rather be part of a tribe. Women almost never get kicked out of a herd. The entire herd circles to protect a humiliated, embarrassed, injured or maimed woman, because women are more valuable, and they all need a way to survive. The purpose of the herd/sisterhood is to PROTECT ITS MEMBERS. This is why… Read more »
@andy
“Hmmm, yeah. BTW, what are the requirements to start referring to the manosphere in the third person? Level 50 Druid PUA or something?”
when you go out enough to start recognizing the clear differences between PUAs and a lot of TRP/manosphere guys….
” . . . you can leave or get kicked out, and you can start your own tribe.”
This is what the infamous Dog Soldiers of the Cheyenne did.
They then absorbed one of the traditional tribes into themselves and in the last actions of the last of the free Cheyenne made a new place for themselves in the traditional tribal structure as its Special Forces.
“All women are part of the herd.”
Which is why fashion works…
http://www.proyectomoda.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/han-solo-pm-portada.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/16/06/2B672A4300000578-0-image-a-17_1439701694562.jpg
Crab basketing always in all ways… No one girl can get an advantage.
Which is why game works, they think the same.
Which is why contrast for a guy works, because they want that advantage of the “not like the rest”.
carried over from the last thread… @ Sentient “Here’s one. Come over to you, while you are sipping a drink in a corner alone, and rub your cock with full eye contact…” ARGGGGGGGGGG lol it stings but you wont make that mistake again! “Ahhh Quix another one, from the past… Get literally kidnapped by five girls, taken out to a club, the only guy in the group, pay zero dollars… end up taking a limo back with them all sprawled on you…” Hahaha I have been in situations like that and looking back im like “WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU… Read more »
“Which is why fashion works…”
@Rollo “Push back on the invasion of male space by being uncompromising in what you do and organize with passion. Make no concessions for women in any all-male space you create or join.” Lol yup this is why I refuse to engage with female commenters on any redpill site; I’m here to learn and trade information with men. My plates very rarely see me on a Friday cuz they know it’s a standing guys night out every week. My plates also know better than to text me or call me when I’m out with the boys or on a guys… Read more »
“It is literally in my DNA to be suspicious of tribalism,” he told me. “I understand the tribal impulse, and acknowledge the power of tribal division. I’ve been navigating tribal divisions my whole life. In the end, it’s the source of a lot of destructive acts.”
Barack Obama.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/262128/obama-it-literally-my-dna-be-suspicious-tribalism-daniel-greenfield
And my experience matches his, women often come in bursts
I’ve always wondered about this, if there is a chemical/biological/pheromones thing, to the point if you went to a whore, and next day to a bar you would be more likely to score. Maybe it’s pressing too hard when nothing is going on, but still it’s like women have a sixth sense for getting into the competition for popular sperm.
@redlight “I’ve always wondered about this, if there is a chemical/biological/pheromones thing, to the point if you went to a whore, and next day to a bar you would be more likely to score. Maybe it’s pressing too hard when nothing is going on, but still it’s like women have a sixth sense for getting into the competition for popular sperm.” I wrote a FR here a while back where I fucked one of my plates and then a few minutes later I went out gaming; it went great cuz I wasn’t attached to the outcome; picked up one of… Read more »
” It is literally in my DNA to be suspicious of tribalism,” he told me. “I understand the tribal impulse, and acknowledge the power of tribal division. I’ve been navigating tribal divisions my whole life. In the end, it’s the source of a lot of destructive acts.” Barack Obama. ” Lol. One of the reasons I will be glad when O’s presidency ends, is that I won’t have to see dumb shit like this anymore. Facts are stubborn things. Hate and misreading/misunderstanding situations are fool’s errands. 8 years of ” the devil in the whitehouse…. ” Jesus. Insofar as middle… Read more »
Guys in this thread talking about how women are all sheep in a herd who can be programmed to think and act the same by social conditioning media etc that tells them to wear the same clothes and think/talk/act the same, when last thread women were all magically able to resist and reject social conditioning…how come you guys aren’t saying those girls are all just biologically involuntarily hardwired to wear uggs? I mean every girl in that pic is dressed the same so that’s proof that it’s involuntarily hardwired into them otherwise we wouldn’t see such a common trend! …or… Read more »
It’s subcomms not some unpredictable magic pheromone sixth sense woowoo shit lol When you’re getting laid your subcomms are more chill/non-needy/etc and you give less of a fuck about the outcome of your interactions with women (which again makes your subcomms more solid). When a guy (or woman) gets off their systems are flooded with oxytocin. When a guy’s T levels are high this triggers aggressive behavior. When a runner finishes a 10K his system is flooded with dopamine and he gets relaxed with a ‘runner’s high’. When women are in their proliferative phase of ovulation their biochemistry predisposes them… Read more »
““when you go out enough to start recognizing the clear differences between PUAs and a lot of TRP/manosphere guys….”
lol this.”
http://www.buzzhourly.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/kanye-scowl-resting-bitch-face-300×300.jpg
” It looks like magic but it’s just understanding psychology, holding a strong frame (that violence isn’t going to happen), and pacing then leading their reality.”
…. not always. Be prepared. Lol….
http://remezcla.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/giphy1.gif
@Yareally “End result is attraction. Then shit happens in real life (you get lazy, real life problems come up, girls cause drama, whatever) and your subcomms get fucked up ’cause you got shit on your mind and your subcomms end up all over the map. Like say one of your girls moves away, now you wanna replace her because you don’t have that Tuesday fuck lined up anymore so you go on the hunt but you’re a little more outcome dependent, which gets you rejected, then you’re struggling to prove to yourself that you’re still a pimp by trying to… Read more »
Rollo stated – ” By controlling men’s intrasex communications with each other the Feminine Imperative can limit men’s unified, collective, understanding of masculinity and male experiences. Feminine-primary society hates and is terrified of men defining and asserting masculinity for themselves (to the point of typifying it as potentially violent), but as connectivity progresses we will see a more concentrated effort to lock down the narrative and the means of men communicating male experiences. I’ve detailed in many prior posts how the imperative has deliberately misdirected and confused men about a unified definition of masculinity. That confusion is designed to keep… Read more »
@ya “Guys in this thread talking about how women are all sheep in a herd who can be programmed to think and act the same by social conditioning media etc that tells them to wear the same clothes and think/talk/act the same, when last thread women were all magically able to resist and reject social conditioning” ya…. and if they come back and say ‘well women are biologically programmed to follow the herd!’ then it’s like okay lol how is that diff than what PUAs say about seeking social status? @quix “Where I do really agree with you is here:… Read more »
Yareally
The stimulus for the herd following behaviors is what’s programmed. i.e. the fish video.
You cant just pick and choose what evo psych you want to follow. It all holds together or it doesn’t.
I’m surprised you are choosing not to get that?
@rollo “When a guy (or woman) gets off their systems are flooded with oxytocin. When a guy’s T levels are high this triggers aggressive behavior. When a runner finishes a 10K his system is flooded with dopamine and he gets relaxed with a ‘runner’s high’. When women are in their proliferative phase of ovulation their biochemistry predisposes them to sexual behaviors. How that’s expressed is subject to social contexts, but the motivators are the same.” the relationships aren’t as simple as you’re saying they are. Aggressive behavior follows T, but T may also follows aggressive behavior. that research, like a… Read more »
@sentient “The stimulus for the herd following behaviors is what’s programmed. i.e. the fish video.” lol and as predicted –> ‘and if they come back and say ‘well women are biologically programmed to follow the herd!’ then it’s like okay lol how is that diff than what PUAs say about seeking social status?’ and PUAs say that women are PRIMED to simply seek out TOP DOG and that’s it and LOOK FOR CUES TO DO SO. it would be more advantageous for women not to be tied down to physical appearance and instead be hard-wired to look for behaviors….that would… Read more »
@Blaximus Blue guy squared up and participated in the monkey dance, he had the frame of “violence is a definite possibility”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6XE7y_3zwY @Sentient “You cant just pick and choose what evo psych you want to follow. It all holds together or it doesn’t.” Evo-psych is great. I fully subscribe to the idea that women are biologically hardwired to be attracted to things that indicate 100% always attractive traits. The difference in what I’m saying is in WHAT those consistent 100% always attractive core diamond traits ARE, because we have tons of evidence that looks aren’t consistently attractive whereas confidence, preselection,… Read more »
When a shoal of fish all turn “simultaneously” they are exhibiting social behaviour, but not social conditioning.
When sharks gather in groups they do not exhibit shoaling behaviour. Their motion appears random, individual. Not only do they lack the psychology, they lack the physical attributes to support it.
Scray
It’s predictible because your premise doesn’t hold up hence inviting clarification.
What is top dog seeking about women wearing rompers and aviator glasses?
Or is rather wired intra female competitve balancing like every other area of female socialization – crab basketing?
Awalt yo…
@YaReally Women pretty much have a herd mentality. Lol, I’ve spent the bulk of my life surrounded by them from birth. Social conditioning can give the herd something to focus on, but that mentality is already there. Social conditioning can also be used to try and stem the actions of the heard, but once it is removed, the herd will focus on whatever’s handy ( feminism in this case ) and stampede with it. I don’t believe social conditioning can answer so many questions re: behavior. Social conditioning has it’s effect on people, but there is sometimes a deeper programming… Read more »
‘What is top dog seeking about women wearing rompers and aviator glasses?’
women who wear those things get the high status guys.
@scray “dudes who feel the need to dumpster dive probably haven’t ever banged a legit hottie. once you stick your dick in an 8+, let alone multiple > 8’s….there is just a threshold you are never going to drop beneath ever again. ever. but sure if you mean like….6’s or whatever, ya. but for most guys that isn’t dumpster diving that’s…’omg i wish she would be mine 4ever!’” Yes Yes very true. I should have clarified that my dumpster diving comment was meant for guys who are at the very bottom starting their game journey, hard cases who feel like… Read more »
” What is top dog seeking about women wearing rompers and aviator glasses?’”
Lol, not a damn thing.
Beware of social conditioning that convinces you that whatever women deem as sexy, you have to buy into it.
Wanna seem aloof? lol, ignore conditioning. You won’t need to act aloof, you will not give a fuck.
” . . . women who wear those things get the high status guys.”
And yet tomorrow they will all turn simultaneously away from rompers and aviator glasses.
And the same women will still get the same high status guys – and they know it.
I have nothing against a man playing ” a game ” in life.
I just want him to always understand that it’s a game.
@quix “Yes Yes very true. I should have clarified that my dumpster diving comment was meant for guys who are at the very bottom starting their game journey, hard cases who feel like there is no hope” yeah but that’s not going to make them feel better if they feel like they deserve better girls. it’s just going to reinforce what they’re trying to change: their current SMV is low. it SUCKS to go out and constantly get rejected and shit on, believe me i know. but the more you go out there the more you realize that the only… Read more »
@kfg
“And yet tomorrow they will all turn simultaneously away from rompers and aviator glasses.
And the same women will still get the same high status guys – and they know it.”
yup social conditioning changes.
and yup, women project their own desires onto male desires via solipsism and oft times focus on the wrong things.
so cool, PUAs are right again!
The particular direction a shoal of fish turns in is random, unpredictable. If it weren’t, the behaviour would be without function.
Sargon explains a perfect example of male space invasion (in this case comic book space invasion…note the pink hair) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfrUFdfXYHg
@Slack:
Hey, who doesn’t like truffles?
http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-women-took-over-the-world-of-running-1463415987?mod=e2tw
Hey y’all, I’m still reading (or trying to, longass comment sections and busy as all hell). Opening sets, learning that I actually need to do logistics even if she’s hooked. So that’s coming along.
Anyways, this is a good post/discussion which I’ll surely participate in once I don’t have a girl coming over to ‘learn to make cocktails.’
Any suggestions for a good movie to put on if I need it? She’s not sappy or a blushing violet, but is a kinda good-girl responsible type.
I suppose the real answer is ‘anything I want to watch’ lol.
… of course, all of these women just happened to decide to start running practically at the same time….
http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-women-took-over-the-world-of-running-1463415987?mod=e2tw
Aaaaaaand Rollo winds up and punches one of my hot buttons.
The charity scam has absolutely ruined the fun run/ride. I have never participated in one and never will, but there’s almost nothing else left.
“Completing the distance has become as big a goal as your time. That makes it far more accessible.”
Not to mention what it has done to the actual racing.