I got an interesting comment from regular reader Hollenhund about 2 weeks ago and rather than reheat that thread I thought it deserved a post. I’ll get to that comment in a bit, but the original topic was how Red Pill awareness, or really the Red Pill Lens, applies in different social contexts. I think there’s a misconception about how relevant a Red Pill understanding is in different social environments, ethnic cultures, religious cultures or even what might seem niche or “alternative” subcultures.
It’s no secret I post on a few of the Christo-Manosphere blogs, but this is really just one social subset of the Red Pill. This is just one of a myriad of other social situations I put myself into with a Red Pill perspective. To be honest my natural default is to use a Red Pill lens in most social environments and I consistently use that awareness as a starting point for judging the character of new people I meet.
As a result of my career I’m often asked to organize or make an appearance at promos or product launches in social settings that would likely never occur to me to be a part of. That isn’t to say I don’t enjoy them; I certainly love to do my ‘observational studies’ of intersexual interactions at, say, a martini fest in South Beach, but I don’t think doing a promo at a Goth club around Halloween would occur to me if I weren’t working the event.
However, I’ve found that in all of these very diverse social settings I consistently see the same Red Pill truths, behaviors and motivations predictably play out among the people I work and interact with despite their being bikini models in cocktail dresses or rednecks in wife-beaters and Daisy Dukes. It’s very easy for guys new to Red Pill awareness and Game to think that because the more notable PUAs they see in videos at various clubs are where they’re most successful that they too must emulate this by thrusting themselves into a social environment they’re never going to feel comfortable in.
I’ve covered the topic of domain dependence before, and how it behooves a newly unplugged man to see what social context he finds himself in and understand the limitation of never breaking out of his comfort zone. It stifles a growth and maturity, but similarly I can’t expect a guy to really cast off all his reservations and jump cold turkey into alien social environments in the fashion that my work places me in.
The good news is that you don’t really have to begin in a foreign social environment, at least not at first. I know PUAs like YaReally will stress the importance of getting out in the field and practicing Game – and he’s right, there is no substitute for the education you’ll receive from experience (and failure). However, what that ‘field’ looks like to you can be a great variety of environments.
For example, I sincerely doubt that many religious men would feel comfortable hitting the clubs in Vegas or Miami to practice Game. In fact, Game to them would be limited by their religious convictions, but that Game is still informed by the same Red Pill truth and awareness that Tyler Durden is using in his Game. So what’s to do?
Apply that Red Pill lens, awareness and truth to the social environment you already find yourself in. Game to me as a successful 47 year old creative professional isn’t going to be the same Game or social context you as a 25 year old up and coming anti-millennial will apply. And this is a good thing. One aspect of the manosphere I enjoy is seeing the countless ways in which Red Pill men apply themselves in their various circumstances. It’s very inspiring to see a high school kid and a 55 year old divorced man use the same Red Pill knowledge base to better their lives and achieve relatively predictable results because of it.
One subculture that I’ve been very familiar with for the better part of my life has been the ‘gamer’ subculture. Whether it’s been via my own quirky hobbies or the artists and developers I’ve worked with for years, I’ve been intimately familiar with geek or nerd culture for a very long time. The best part of having had this experience is that I’ve been familiar with it when I was both in my Blue Pill plugged in days and in my Red Pill awakening, to say nothing of being one of the foremost writers in the ‘sphere.
Niche SMPs
I started with all this because I believe it’s relevant to the conversation that got started with Hollenhund’s comment here:
It is rather important when you consider that the majority of the audience for films, video games etc. with the warrior princess trope are probably men. One male fantasy among many is the woman that is girly and feminine in appearance and body shape, but isn’t actually interested in girly stuff, and would rather discuss automatic weapons, martial arts, sports cars, military history etc. after draining your balls. She wears stylish clothes, but would rather go to the shooting range than the mall etc. Lara Croft is a typical example.
Definitely.
I’ve found this trope is most common among the gamer/nerd set. They tend to fetishize the non-conventionally hot “Gamer Girl” or “Geek Girl” who genuinely shares their love of war/video/ roleplaying games, cosplay, Dr. Who, comics, anime, etc. It also has an interesting parallel for guys who are devout sports fans and foolishly build their ideals around a woman who can quote sports stats, loves his team(s) and also loves beer and hot wings as much as himself.
This is what I call a niche sexual marketplace (SMP). As I was saying earlier, just like there are various niche social environs in which to apply Game, there are also niche SMPs that develop within those social contexts. Whether it’s sports, Goth, Christian, nerd, music, etc. or any other culture, the Red Pill truths remain a constant, but the context creates an SMP within it.
This Nerd niche SMP is readily exploited by girls who are otherwise outclassed in a larger SMP by girls who are far more sexy and attention holding. It’s important to remember that Nerd-Space used to be a Male Space that was infiltrated and co-opted by the Feminine Imperative. This infiltration is really standard and formulaic when you consider how the Feminine Imperative has co-opted and assimilated social structures as large as contemporary church culture.
Nerd Space
However, Nerd Space has been even more reformed by the imperative than most other traditionally Male Spaces; so much so that the organic girl-world social dynamics have become an integral part of the male subculture within it. You will never find more hostile a Beta White Knight than in Geek Culture because this Warrior Princess mythology is something they’ve been conditioned to evangelize for for most of their lives.
Embracing and pedestalizing Warrior Princesses is a critical component to a geek guy’s form of Beta Game. It’s ALL about identifying with the feminine and celebrating the fantasy that men and women are not just functional equals, but women are unrealized, patriarchally repressed, Warrior Princesses who (through rampant male idealism) necessarily share a mutual concept of what women should love in men who respect that fantasy with them. The nerd’s fantasy girl is one who finds him irresistible because he believes in women’s unrecognized superiority to male-kind.
There’s a very interesting microcosm within geek subculture that unsurprisingly mirrors virtually every intergender dynamic in larger society. As I was saying before this happens in every subculture – the basic, evolved, Red Pill social dynamics manifest themselves in any human collective – but what’s interesting is that geek culture presupposes that the subculture is founded on principles that make it functionally imune to the larger mainstream culture it considers sexist, racist, xenophobic and cruel. If you look at the social utopia that a franchise like Star Trek hoped to promote you can begin to understand it as a fantasized antithesis to the mainstream collective society geeks consider themselves outcast from.
However, even within a geek culture that despises that mainstream cruelty, AF/BB Hypergamy is still the primary order, but the geek microcosm revolves around making women feel good about themselves to such an exaggerated degree that feminism and fempowerment becomes part of ‘Gaming’ women within that subset. It’s Beta Game on steroids with a lot of ego-invested LARPing (live action role-playing, google it) that’s taken very seriously by the overwhelmingly Blue Pill guys who make up most of it.
Gamer Girl-World
It’s really entertaining to see these guys try to outdo each other when a girl enters that nerd space with even the resemblance of an interest in something nerd related. That glimmer of interest is like throwing a starving man a cracker in the desert most times, and the more conventionally beautiful and sexy she is the greater the effort, or the greater the default despair is for them.
I’ve covered male idealism in a generic sense before, however that idealism (the unhealthy kind) when put in the context of a noble nerd’s fantasy girl – who shares his passions, is considerate of his borderline autism and appreciates his non-patriarchal deference to her – she either becomes something he obsesses over (severe ONEits) or she represents the despair that only an unreachable dream can stir in a man.
That said, semi-attractive gamer girls do exist (nothing more than an HB 7.5 by my reckoning), but most fall into the demographic of ostracized weird girl or semi-goth, fuscia-haired outcast who never clicked with the in-group girls in high school.
Nerd culture represents an environment where a girl’s otherness makes them a prized commodity. Girls who find nerd/gamer culture either on their own or via their ‘cool nerd’ (see Emo-Goth) boyfriend soon discover a social subset whose males pedestalize to an even greater degree than the prissy in-group bitch girls who ostracized them enjoy from men. In fact that pedestalization, that identification, that default deference and autonomous sublimation to the feminine is integral to the nerd culture. So when you combine a gamer girl’s nerd-niche SMP dominance with the overblown pedestalizing most nerds will elevate them to, it recreates gamer girls in the contextual likeness of the in-group girls they despised and never got along with.
Most top shelf gamer girls tend to hook up with the elite, usually Emo, guys in the subculture. The exact same intersexual dynamics remain, but the context changes. All of the fundamental aspects of Hypergamy and social ego inflation remain, but now within a domain dependent environment they can finally exercise their sexual strategies in ways they never could in the social set they’ve been cut away from.
Vox Day had an absolutely brilliant breakdown of female characters in fantasy settings, and what struck me the most was how these archetypes mirrored both the idealized and hated archetype women nerd culture caricatures:
There are three types of women in the world of the Gamma Protagonist: The Corrupted, The Damsel, and The Strong Independent Woman. Average women, in terms of appearance, ability, and moral character, simply won’t exist outside of the occasional passing mention.
- The Corrupted are the female villains of the story who were once good, but were corrupted by men and are therefore not entirely responsible for their evil actions.
- Type one are blonde and athletic who likes athletic, powerful men. They are beyond redemption, and are rude, aloof, and hateful to the GP for no reason.
- Type two are voluptuous, dark seductresses. One of the greatest feats in the story will be the GP’s ability to resist the charms of the insatiable seductress. She will desire him to the point of absurd obsession for no discernible reason.
- The Damsel is an incredibly attractive women who is generally clueless about how attractive she is even though she is approached regularly by men. There will be half-hearted attempts by the author to include some traits of strength, but eventually she will need to be rescued by the GP. At which point, she will fall in love with him, of course.
- The Strong Independent woman is strong and independent. She also finds the GP irresistible because he respects her.
- She is the equal or better of the GP in at least one traditionally masculine ability, usually in physical strength and battle prowess.
- The GP finds it endearing and attractive that she bosses him around regularly, and she loves the arrangement too.
- The love interest of the GP will have large breasts, usually has red hair, and is the one to initiate sex in nearly every instance. She will be perfectly loyal unless corrupted by some sort of magical force or technological device.
I’m dropping this here, because it’s important to understand the Blue Pill analogous truths that manifest in these character types.
The Corrupted represents all the ‘normal’ women who’ve ever rejected or been casually indifferent to the male nerd. The Damsel is generally the foil for the Strong Independent Woman, whose use is only to serve to bolster the SIW’s superiority. The Damsel is also representative of women ignorant of their role under some vaudevillian notion of patriarchy. And the SIW woman is representative of the sexualized ideal that’s been approved for nerd guys to obsess over courtesy of the influences of the Feminine Imperative.
These are the archetypes for idealized (both positively and negatively) women in nerd space. Consequently, and unsurprisingly, these fantasy ideals are challenged by the real-life gamer girls who progressively begin to understand their own sexual market capital within this subculture’s men and, most often, unwittingly feed that beast.
All that said, if this is in fact your cultural subset, and even if not, it’s always important for you as a Red Pill aware man to bear in mind that the same articles of an intersexual marketplace are always present within any social context. Whether you’re in church or the club or your local game/comic book store Hypergamy doesn’t change, the game doesn’t change, only its contextual parameters change. Roissy had a great quote in the 16 Commandments of Poon (emphasis mine):
XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses
In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.
Gamer girls may not have been the type to pine for the high school quarterback, but they do pine for his functional equivalent in Nerd Space. Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks are equally relevant and equally subject to a woman’s capacity to optimize on them in Nerd Space. Her SMV may be artificially inflated within that context, but the mechanics remain the same. Everything you learn here or on any other Red Pill blog or forum is universally applicable in any social context – it’s up to you as a skilled and aware practitioner to observe the particulars of your environment, contrast it with Red Pill truths and apply Game accordingly.
For further reading see The Contextual Alpha.
[…] By Rollo Tomassi […]
This pretty much fits with the one “gamer girl” / gamer couple I’ve gotten to know pretty well: She was an ex-outcast who had outgrown her awkwardness. She was pretty, thin, put effort into her appearance. Really into everything fantasy. She told me she loved to sit and watch her husband play video games for hours. I felt like a horrible failure of a wife after she told me that (my husband was into video games at the time), but I later found out their relationship, though very loving and close, was mostly non-sexual. The ex-outcast thing is a big… Read more »
This is very true. I was a combat veteran, wallowing in misery and PTSD when I met my ex-wife on World of Warcraft, ironically enough. I lived with my mom, had no job, no car, and no hope… yet still managed to catch the eye of a decent looking, yet anti-social female. In time things changed and as my SMP value started to increase, so did her insecurities. I started hanging out with friends and socializing again. It began to make her feel uneasy. So much so that she drove me out of her life. Looking back I realize that… Read more »
“I’ve found this trope is most common among the gamer/nerd set. They tend to fetishize the non-conventionally hot “Gamer Girl” or “Geek Girl” who genuinely shares their love of war/video/ roleplaying games, cosplay, Dr. Who, comics, anime, etc. It also has an interesting parallel for guys who are devout sports fans and foolishly build their ideals around a woman who can quote sports stats, loves his team(s) and also loves beer and hot wings as much as himself. This is what I call a niche sexual marketplace (SMP). As I was saying earlier, just like their are various niche social… Read more »
[…] Gamer Girls […]
I was going to make a comment in the Assurances post because that was the most recent, and prequalify it as being off topic, but I think it might fit just fine in this one. I was watching a docu on PBS yesterday about the Apollo mission wives. The occasionally get together and check up on how each other is doing. The film maker got them together for this instance, and a few things stood out to me that came up during the show. Each one of the former wives, when talking about why they married the astronauts, mentioned how… Read more »
Rollo
“Gamer Girl-worl” needs a d…
Whenever I encounter a “gamer girl”, I immediately see it as a red flag. I’ve been with a couple of women who were extremely addicted to video games. One would stay on the damn thing for 24 hours straight, go to bed, and then get back on it. Another one would play during every moment of spare time. There has been high debate on whether video games are addictive or not. After being with these two women, I would seriously vote that yes, they are addictive. I can certainly see why they are addictive for women; They can induce a… Read more »
Would that be dread game, WCB, or just plain old dread? The test pilot squadrons the first astronauts were pulled from had a shitload of deaths. They were testing the first supersonic rocket and jet aircraft, and a lot of them wound up in boxes. Tom Wolfe’s “The Right Stuff” deals with a lot of that; the first chapter talks about the wives in one unit calling around to each other. They’ve heard someone’s been killed and they’re trying to figure out who.
/sorry for OT
@Rollo there is no substitute for the education you’ll receive from experience (and failure). With the experience I’ve had in the field so far, I’d call it synonymous with failure. I’ve been super busy the past couple weeks (including winding up a Canadian visit tonight) so I haven’t gotten to write like I intended. That being said, Rollo would you be down with meeting on The Man Table to discuss this post? I’m really keen to hammer on it with you, and I’d absolutely love to have regulars (Forge, SJF) as well. It’s a subject near and dear to my… Read more »
Tom Wolfe’s writing was perhaps one of my peak experiences in reading . The original non-fiction and then the crazy fiction pieces.
The Right Stuff was good stuff.
“The ex-outcast thing is a big part of gamer girl identity I think. Like it’s a way of disowning the scary crowd of girls and finding safer pastures in maleness, and kind of a neutered variety of maleness.” This reminds me of the time I had a female friend – ex-cheerleader, ex-hooters, pretty but normal “girly” girl – go on for about 10 minutes or so in utter shock/disgust about a mutual “gamer girl” female acquaintance of mine. Girly girl had just spent an evening hanging out with a number of our mutual friends and acquaintances, and among these people,… Read more »
@Sun Wukong You have a gift of a great voice. I actually have a man crush on it. I truly think that you can engage Rollo in a voice discussion that the manosphere can be enlightened. I really think you abdicated a great thing with The Man Table round-table discussions last year. You dropped the ball on a great thing. And your initiative in those Man Table discussions literally change my life is subtle ways. It set into motion a bridge between online relationships and IRL experiences. I met with Forge in real life, I correspondend with ScribblerG and it… Read more »
Having dabbled a little in computer games in my teenaged years, but witnessing the explosion of gamer culture today, I can definitely relate.
I’ve always found it strange and possibly a little pathetic to think of people spending all of their spare hours immersed in a virtual world, creating no real value.
Yet even world of warcraft relationships happen (albeit extremely rarely).
also, Rollo, you may want to fire your proofreader!
“their are” should be “there are”.
I’ve been playing some board games lately at meetups. Most of the girls are overweight, but some are attractive. They are typically held at coffee houses, pizza joints, or a bar in the back room. There’s a lesbian waitress at the coffee house whom I’ve been gaming just because. A little pretty and she kind of likes me a little. For some reason, lesbians seem to be found around nerds. Maybe the outcast thing?
Got to jump in to explain the PUA side obviously lol: We push guys to go to nightclubs or high-traffic daytime locations so they can gather tons of reference experiences as fast as possible in a setting where no one will really remember them and they can relax under anonymity if they fuck up, not because they’re optimal venues to spend your time in. It also keeps guys from shitting where they eat. And it puts them in an environment where what they’re doing is socially acceptable, VS trying to kino a girl in a church or gaming social circle… Read more »
@bookooball – it sounds like you liked your ex-wife. If you don’t want to say anything about it, I understand.
If you are open to letting me know your mind, from one redpill aware guy to another, I am interested to know – game to foster mutual respect, so as to foster trust and cooperation in the relationship with your then wife, because you liked her (besides for sex)? Is that the way you see it?
Like imagine teaching this guy to game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egV9yWMFuCE This dude is PROBABLY a cool guy underneath all his fucking weird mannerisms and ticks and nervousness. He’s legitimately trying to crack some clever jokes but he’s shitting bricks. There’s a guy under that shit that would probably be able to land a cool girlfriend and be a fun guy in social situations if he could crack through all this social awkwardness shit. Do you want THAT guy trying to mack this reporter girl? Or one of his female friends in his nerd social circle full of guys just like him but… Read more »
lol that gamer nerd guy is a Borat type character dude, I just grabbed one of the first vids that came up when I typed “gamer nerd” into YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFkMtE-TLCk
But like, there are a shitload of guys along those lines that aren’t acting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKBEAvRIt4Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H50nqenYMDM
etc etc Go attend a comic/gaming/etc convention lan parties tournaments etc and you’ll find shitloads of these guys. These are the guys who are going to eventually type “how do I get a girlfriend I’m so fucking lonely I want to die” into Google.
Also I always bring these super weird guys up because they’re not some uncommon tiny minority, these are HUGE majorities of these communities especially in 2016 where no one socializes they all just text and chat/post online and shit. These are the guys that are going to contribute to that huge suicide rate of men and turn to MGTOW and shit. And aren’t going to be helped by “make money bro, hit they gym bro”. Give these guys six-pack abs, a million dollars, and have girls come up and pinch their glutes and they will still freeze up and end… Read more »
This also applies a lot to STEM field women, perhaps not to such a dramatic extent. @YaReally: I get what you are saying about clubs, it is intimidating but low-risk. But I also get what Rollo is saying. You can’t drop these extremely socially awkward guys in a club by themselves and expect them to do more than stay in a corner overwhelmed. It seems possible that they can improve starting with low-level, low-risk game in less intimidating environments, and maybe after reaching a certain level be able to handle clubs. I don’t think it is a coincidence that Tyler… Read more »
@Ya Really: “Elevatorgate was a guy . . . and he wouldn’t end up all over the internet and he would live to go approach another girl.” Elevatorgate guy didn’t end up all over the Internet. He exists only as “a guy” in Rebecca Watson’s video claim. A massive nerdquest was launched trying to identify him and came up empty, eliminating all the possible known suspects. He was either a) some random guy in the hotel bar not shitting where he eats, or b) never existed as anything other than a rhetorical device. The point you were using him to… Read more »
@SJF – that’s a really powerful quote from Gone Girl. I’ve seen the movie but not read the book, and that quote is really something – when I see guys post here or on TRP on reddit or whatever, or even posts about guys getting betaized – this quote pretty much seems to nail the female side of it – the female response to it. Now obviously 99.999% of women are not murderous psychopaths, but the EMOTIONAL content of the reaction is so spot on (and reminiscent of some aspects of my old LTR) that is actually a bit scary.… Read more »
Jump to 7:00
Alright, Rollo this happens every post. Your grammatical errors that is. Please use Grammarly (www.grammarly.com). You can also install it into your browser. It’s a much better editor than MS-Word. I’d do the typing in Grammarly and then copy and paste it into your word press site. That should help eliminate these errors. 🙂
You’re still my hero but damn man, lol.
“This pretty much fits with the one “gamer girl” / gamer couple I’ve gotten to know pretty well: She was an ex-outcast who had outgrown her awkwardness. She was pretty, thin, put effort into her appearance. Really into everything fantasy. She told me she loved to sit and watch her husband play video games for hours. I felt like a horrible failure of a wife after she told me that (my husband was into video games at the time), but I later found out their relationship, though very loving and close, was mostly non-sexual.” That’s interesting, Lee lee. Mike and… Read more »
“And also, I think that women raise the age of when the find men most attractive as they age, especially if they are above 35, is really the same ego saving buffers that Rollo talks about men using. Women won’t want to admit that they find a man most attractive if he’s significantly younger, in her eyes at least, than she is. It’ll bring out the hypocrisy for one, but mainly it makes them face up to that fading sexyness.” I don’t know about this. If it’s true, it’s really deep-seated “ego saving”. Just the other day I was at… Read more »
Gamer girls I’ve noticed were always weirdos. Nose rings, blue hair, lumpy, ect… I think you’re right about how they aren’t the “it” girls in the real world do they get male attention in cyber world.
No Liz the young men wanted milk, lol. Sorry, you set your self up for that one.
By the way, Rollo can you please do a post on Hypergamy being biology vs being learned. I’ve been a lot of hypergamy is learned socialized behavior floating around.
Nice post. I get what you’re saying but I also agree with YaReally above. You have to have field experience before applying it to your niche SMP. Now, after years experimenting with PUA/TRP I can see my old WoW/MtG/RPG groups much more clearly. I can also see all the times that I fucked up when a girl in those groups was interested in me, etc. Wew. Lessons learned. The thing with gamer girls is that they game either because (a) they are so fat and ugly they wouldn’t be part of any other niche, (b) they aren’t so ugly but… Read more »
Jafyk,
😀
I was looking forward to this post since the subject arose in the Warrior Princess comments. I used to hang out with some folks who were into the geek/otaku/nerd subculture. From my experience, the men in this subculture are the most blue pill identified, envious and one-itis prone in the world, and the girls are the most attention whoring and/or socially akward (depends on the girl) I’ve ever seen. Among some episodes were I drew ire from these guys for fucking the occasional hot girl that ends up in these circles (and without being in a LTR with them, a… Read more »
@IAS “But I also get what Rollo is saying. You can’t drop these extremely socially awkward guys in a club by themselves and expect them to do more than stay in a corner overwhelmed.” PUA coaches teaching bootcamps do it pretty much every single night of the week. There are a lot of tactics to get guys to take action, you calibrate your coaching style to the guy and what he responds to. Some guys like the drill sargeant approach of being yelled at, some guys need to be coaxed into it, some need to be given the freedom to… Read more »
@Liz, the idea of a wife sitting quietly for hours just *watching* her husband play video games and loving it just struck me as the most adoring, reverent, docile image of a wife.
I’m not certain about the narrative that gamers are massively Blue Pill. They are a subculture ostracized from mainstream society, widely exposed to online trends. The whole Gamergate thing makes it obvious that they are seen by feminist cultural commissars as insufficiently indoctrinated, too off-script. I’d say average non-gamers are more likely to accept the Blue Pill without question. The FI being what it is, such differences can only be marginal, of course.
When guys try to learn game by staying in their comfort zone environment, especially if they’re extremely socially awkward and/or in extremely socially awkward (or sexually stunted) environments/social circles, they simply won’t be able to rack up the amount of experience (including making mistakes) as fast as they could in a nightclub venue or high-traffic daygame environment and they will VERY likely creep out parts of their social circles and probably end up as outcasts from that environment (because they won’t have the social skills to recover from those situations or often even realize they’re IN them and making girls… Read more »
@YaRealy
You should get together w/ some of these guys and wright a PUA game.
An RSD virtual bar PU game. Million dollar idea.
You know, I think there’s an entire subset of women who think it’s a viable sexual strategy to play up the fact that they don’t fit in with other women. There was an entire crop of teen movies at one time that celebrated the inner and outer beauty & superiority of the girl who didn’t fit in. I think some less socially insightful women pick up on male frustration with feminine behaviors (flakiness, being a lil boring maybe, and vain) and get the confused idea that men don’t like feminine women — so they try to signal how NOT feminine… Read more »
“and they will VERY likely creep out parts of their social circles and probably end up as outcasts from that environment ” Me in college! “When guys try to learn game by staying in their comfort zone environment, especially if they’re extremely socially awkward ” I’m not extremely socially awkward, but I’m not pushing myself enough. I’m going to write this down here to hold myself accountable. I could be learning faster. I need to get the fuck out of my house. lol. It sounds ridiculous. Why is it so hard?! haha. ugh. Two nights a week. gtfo out of… Read more »
Watch this shit at 2x speed to avoid having to listen to her lol…”donation battle” Dat thirst: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1Bec5KkqOE And fuck it, here’s $7k just for existing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT5bcpuWtYM Remember when you made $10,000 to just play some videogames? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELmfzl0Zoj0 This chick doesn’t even get naked or suck a bunch of dick or anything. She just exists and knows how to do her makeup. Remember this when a girl asks you to buy her a drink or dinner or talks about how oppressed women are or complains about her cushy HR job not paying her enough lol This wasn’t a thing that… Read more »
@hoellenhund2
“I’d say average non-gamers are more likely to accept the Blue Pill without question”
Maybe gamers are more likely to accept the Red Pill thanks to their familiarity to the internet and internet underground groups
My take is that gamers are, on the whole, anti-feminist, but blue pill pedestalizers nonetheless.
Just look at the way Sargon of Akkad goes all goofy when he interviews even the feminists he opposes. Just listen to the down on one knee supplication in the tone of his voice in this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Rmbmc1BH8
And a woman’s take on how she wrapped Sargon around her little finger:
Good one, kfg. Here’s another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuNIsY6JdUw
(Mike actually sent me a link to this one and said it reminded him us. Gag right? Please don’t ban me for that, Rollo) 🙂
One niche I just thought of at random are female PUA’s.That would be something wouldn’t it.Hopeless romantics using game/tactics to get a guy.Until I googled it and what I found astounded me.(well sort of raised an eyebrow).I mean cumon right.Do girls need any training when it comes to relationships.Do they need to “PICK UP”. Those two words spell it out just fine.Its a numbers game.Going from zero to hero/spinning plates. But they are out there. Its until I pondered over the idea that my red pill reasoning started to kick in. Its not a numbers game. Its a quality game.Its… Read more »
For clarity, To me it was sweet, obviously. But I’m sure I’m gagging out everyone here.
@hoellenhund2 You make an interesting point, but I still think geek/gamer/whatever culture is deeply blue pill. Yes, there is the imageboard dwelling crowd that at first seem to be redpill, or just plaing negative towards women, but, from my experience, these guys are like that online, while in their actual lives they are very docile and blue pill. It’s a weird kind of “my girl is not a whore” applied to the women around them, while the same girls showing their tits online to get validation have no value. At least that’s what I saw in my old social circles.… Read more »
Only slightly O.T. – I’ve seen this “niche SMP” dynamic play out in the motorcycle enthusiast and offroad bicycle rider social circles.
An HB-3 or 4 can “elevate” her status in the group by 2-3 points if she feigns interest in just about any male-dominated space.
The problem(s) are;
A) They’re not that hot, and
B) The competition for their attention is immense.
Good, old-fashioned Attention Whoring at it’s very worst..
“Beta game” is an oxymoron.
The two can’t co-exist.
@Tom, every guy has a Game.
Every guy you know has some concept of how best to approach and come to intimacy with a woman. How effective, how founded in observable, behavioral truths that game is may be questionable, but guys who practice a Beta Game founded on Blue Pill idealisms are still practicing a methodology they believe will get them a girlfriend or laid or what have you.
http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/02/beta-game/
“For clarity, To me it was sweet, obviously. But I’m sure I’m gagging out everyone here.”
🙁 Don’t worry Liz, we’ll always be here for you to double click your mouse.
@stuffinbox
Old, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure_Suit_Larry
@yaReally
Inspiring shit. Thanks man.
What HB would you give this gamer chick? (note the bf in the pics)
https://www.instagram.com/sniperwolfpack/?hl=en
@Bromeo, ’bout an HB7. She’s got the ‘cute girl’ thing working for her. “Cute” not “Sexy”, not “Hot”.
Indentured Beta orbiter in the mall pics noted without comment.
6.5 pretending to be an 8.
The same dynamic hold in any field that has primarily a male demographic.
For example, this
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-09-02-1441195803-1795979-palinhunter1.jpg
is why Sarah Palin has the biggest contigent of male fans of any female politician.
I’ve been learning some from playing board games with other people. Some of them (e.g., Avalon and One Night) are competitive and involve lying and deception and are useful for learning to calibrate whether people are lying or telling the truth. These people seem to be less nerdy than some. Quite friendly and accepting and most aren’t awkward. One guy I especially connected with is a natural. (Big surprise that we connected. He met me at my club last week.) Not what I expected. Board game meetups don’t have loud music playing and allow normal convo. There’s natural rapport in… Read more »
😛 Andy. Hey even Chuck Yeagar named his plane after his wife, “Glamorous Glennis” how sappy was that?
“Cool” guys can be sappy too. 😉
Plus it was EXACTLY like us. I was the cheerleader, and there was that weird blonde girl writing notes next door.
The only difference was I kicked her ass and dorky blondie was outa there and…yeah! The rest is history. 😉 😛
I have to admit that my first reaction to “I can field dress a moose,” was, “Alriiiight!” And the shaming she took over it actually surprised me.
Of course that was before she summed up her foreign policy with, “I can see a Russian house from here, Charlie.”
Liz, hate to break it to ya, but *you’re a dork too*
@ Fifty Seven
Whether just dread, dread game, or unintended dread game, name could be different but the result was the same.
Can the think of any married guy who had a wife that would make a that much of a conscious effort to not argue about anything? Or even single with girlfriend. Still shows that dread/dread game actually does work. It’s an amplified example, but very telling.
“…if this is in fact your cultural subset, and even if not, it’s always important for you as a Red Pill aware man to bear in mind that the same articles of an intersexual marketplace are always present within any social context. ” So true. I’ve got nowhere near the cross-cultural experience that I’d like to have in terms of observing and experiencing these dynamics within the various subsets, but like Tom mentions above: “The same dynamic hold in any field that has primarily a male demographic.” When I was younger I was really into climbing. Me and the guys… Read more »
“I think some less socially insightful women pick up on male frustration with feminine behaviors (flakiness, being a lil boring maybe, and vain) and get the confused idea that men don’t like feminine women — so they try to signal how NOT feminine they are “Girls don’t like me” “Girls are so catty” “I prefer hanging with the guys, less drama”, etc in hopes of being perceived as that superior woman.” Hey Lee, That’s pretty much what women have always done for attention grabs. The recent crop of women posting pictures of themselves holding signs claiming they don’t need feminism.… Read more »
How does this dynamic work out for guys in more traditionally female spaces? For example there are a few boys at my girls dance class. Boys there only signed up for hip/hop.
“Liz, hate to break it to ya, but *you’re a dork too*
People always scoff at the beginnings of great vision…but mark my words, perhaps not this year or in the next, but five years from now, everyone will be wearing this frog helmet.
“When guys try to learn game by staying in their comfort zone environment, especially if they’re extremely socially awkward and/or in extremely socially awkward (or sexually stunted) environments/social circles, they simply won’t be able to rack up the amount of experience (including making mistakes) as fast as they could in a nightclub venue or high-traffic daygame environment and they will VERY likely creep out parts of their social circles and probably end up as outcasts from that environment (because they won’t have the social skills to recover from those situations or often even realize they’re IN them and making girls… Read more »
I grabbed this quote from the reddit sub I started for this post: In addition, women have turned Comic-con conventions into a fucking nightmare. It used to be that comic con was populated only by your nerdy basement dwellers and casual comic book enthusiasts. Now with “nerd culture” becoming more mainstream, comic con has become swarmed with attention-seeking women wearing the skimpiest outfits commercially available. It’s like Halloween all over again for these women; they absolutely love dressing up for the beta validation that gets dumped on them. And to make matters worse, they’ve got betas running around with camera… Read more »
” . . . ’bout an HB7.”
I knocked off half a point for her having the right bone structure to support her skill with makeup.
She’d make a good runway model if her legs were long and thin, rather than short and stumpy. Runway models are plain to homely, but have the bone structure to be painted up as anything the “creative types” wish to make her into. You can’t work that way with actual pretty girls. The actual pretty tends to bleed through the artistic image.
@Yareally FR follow up – Blessed be the name PUA! Ok lol so last night I went out with the girl I picked up 2 weeks ago after some reopening with text game. Thanks for all your advice fellas. Recap of my FR so far: Met her at a bar, high attraction, lots of kino and lazer eyes; went in for kiss got the cheek, didn’t get butt hurt, interaction got back on track but my buddy wanted to bounce so I had to settle for a strong number close. Texted her next day tried to set up a Sunday… Read more »
@Liz
“…but mark my words, perhaps not this year or in the next, but five years from now, everyone will be wearing this frog helmet”
Ya gotta start up an etsy shop & put these things on sale.
@Rollo I guess it comes down to a difference in starting definitions for the word “Game.” I always defined game as only being “Game” when it “works,” ie., produces positive results of a guy getting together for good sex and good relationships with the women that are right for him. When it doesn’t work, ie., either produces no results by getting him no women, or even worse, produces negative results for his life, such as ending up a divorce-raped, 47-year-old bitch … that was the antithesis of Game for me, … Anti-Game, if you will. I see where you’re coming… Read more »
https://twitter.com/amcuckmag/status/702949634331684864
@quixotic – great work dude. Amazing feeling to keep improving and see results, hey? I’m not sure there’s that much you could have done differently. The basic advice is that you change her mood, not her mind (so get her horny enough to come to your place, don’t try and ARGUE her into coming). But it looks like that was pretty much what you were doing and it was working, just not enough. Sometimes you can’t break through the hardcoded “not on first date” mindset, especially if she had a kid and (probably) had a “hard” deadline to get home.… Read more »
“As Rollo said, AF/BB still exists within the niche. For some odd reason a lot of buff guys were in my Magic the Gathering group, and all the (few) girls swooned over them.” I’m not much of a gamer, but I do have a few nerdy hobbies. I’ve been fortunate enough to be good-looking, in shape, and confident/high value in most contexts even before game. What I’ve noticed is: how a nerd girl reacts depends a lot on her level of confidence. Low confidence (and generally low HB rating): they ignore me totally. But it feels like they’re consciously ignoring… Read more »
@Culum Struan Dude you know whats up 🙂 Your points are very good 1. Usually at this bar I am making out with a girl in the bar within 1-2 hours and say “lets go back to my place” they agree no objection and we go straight to my place to bang. Frankly i probably panicked because she is so hot lol. Like I didnt act as entitled a i normally do (normally i go for a kiss without asking and always get a warm reception. The kiss reject 2 weeks ago with her made me think “i need to… Read more »
Long time but occasional reader of TRM, first time poster. Typical married guy, 30s, kids, working on turning blue pill marriage around after taking red pill. I read MMSL Primer which was useful. Wife SAHM mostly. She does a bit of consulting but financial responsibility for family is all me plus I paid off tens of thousands of dollars of her credit card debt from her single days when we got married and I found out how much debt she had – blew my life savings on that and her “dream” wedding. We are okay financially – no debt, good… Read more »
@Marquis, welcome.
“Sometimes I worry that you’ll leave me for another woman” I would agree and amplify. Sounds like you’re doing a good job though. lol. “But at the same time, she obviously needs SOME comfort and needs to FEEL like she’s being “listened to” and “taken seriously” Not that the manosphere needs another meme, but I saw someone talking about “alpha comfort”. There’s no reason you can’t comfort her, it just depends on what place it’s coming from. Like, I view it as how you would comfort your little girl. Forehead kiss, stroke her hair… that sort of thing. My wife… Read more »
I should quit anime.
@TheMarquis @Andy “Forehead kiss, stroke her hair… that sort of thing.Like, I view it as how you would comfort your little girl. Forehead kiss, stroke her hair… that sort of thing. My wife kind of turns into a little girl when I do it, like pouty faces and little girl voice… “ I think Andy is right about this and provides the right antidote to this comfort test. @TheMarquis, perhaps a good thing to do would be to bone up on touching and kino. The kind where it is not a prelude to sex. For example: “If a woman lightly… Read more »
The Mechanics of Kino:
http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/09/the-mechanics-of-kino/
Another with some comments that differentiate comfort and shit tests. https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/2wbhg0/comfort_tests/ (BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR) The trick is that a comfort test IS a Shit Test. It is just a more insidious type of Shit Test that requires a different response. A Shit test is delivered in a sharp, demanding or unpleasant tone. It is mostly unconscious and she will throw them when she is unsure about you or the relationship to “test” your shit. The proper response is to not be emotionally fazed by her. Agree and Amplify, Ignore, Nuke (draw a hard boundary and stop it at all costs) are… Read more »
“It is a comfort test. Agree and Amplify would be more proper for a shit test.”
For me this would work.
her – “Sometimes I worry that you’ll leave me for another woman” 🙁
me – “Oh, that reminds me. I need to introduce you to my new friend Jenny. She’s really looking forward to meeting you.” With a smirk. haha.
But I appreciate that it might not be congruent to other people’s personalities.
New Red Pill Forum:
https://www.trp.red/feed/
So Morpheus has at long last launched the Red Pill forum I’ve never had the time to do myself. I will be making a PSA post of this coming soon, but for now have a look around here:
https://www.trp.red/feed/
I still highly recommend the SoSuave boards, but for more TRM focused discussions this will be my go-to spot.
Go have a look!
@Sun, I’d be happy to do a live talk with you guys, but it all depends on my work schedule this month. I’ll be doing a fairly long interview with Alan Roger Currie at the end of March:
https://twitter.com/AlanRogerCurrie
Honestly I was a bit hesitant to do this since I know he sells a product, but he is a cool guy so I’m down.
I’ll be in Vegas on another shoot at the end of March too, but send me an email and we’ll work something out
@TheMarquis — I feel like I can relate to your wife based on what you’ve written here – I also SAHM, am pretty emotionally volatile, harbor irrational dreams, etc. While I was reading over what you wrote, I had a bad feeling, almost like anxiety because I couldn’t tell if you loved her or not. I was putting myself in her shoes and I was waiting to find out if you had any positive feelings towards her but it all felt negative, maybe even like you’re disgusted with her.. but you must love her/feel attracted to her somewhat because otherwise… Read more »
Quixotic. Culum Quix… Awesome report and enjoy the feeling, let it radiate. You will see so much more opportunity with this feeling. Great job on the compliance. Super great job on holding in close when she turned her cheek and waiting! That is a clutch move. Enjoy the feeling of watching her work herself up and knowing what she will do… On the pull attempt. Agree with Culum about too much notice. Though when she said she doesnt fuck guys so fast you had an opportunity to a&a or just defuse… Just something like whoa slow down missy, what are… Read more »
Marquis. You were posting over at CH yeah? On your situation you are right you are in a major frame battle. You are winning but with brute force. Time to start winning with style… Validate her feelings by giving your approval on a lot of little trivial things. She : blah blah blah… You: yeah thats a good idea. Do it. Good job. And throw in the occasional random approval.. You: hey that thing you (made, did, cleaned, set up etc.) last week was really (good, tasty, whatever). Nice work. Appreciate it. AND then move the fuck on… Out of… Read more »
@bromeo, rollo, kfg Interesting rating on the gamer girl. For me she’s a 6 if I’m being very generous. The amount of makeup she has caked on is sickening. Can’t say I agree with kfg’s assessment of her “skill”. I think she’d actually be more attractive with less on. But that’s just me. Cute for me is a super feminine, almost childlike woman. They are often a little ditsy. The gamer girl for me isn’t cute, she’s just trying to be hot. Is there a list of pictures of girls that guys on here could rate? I’ve found that my… Read more »
@yareally
that episode with that tolki girl was what introduced me to rp, lol. Actually saw the guy doing a benefit show on twitch, then he vanished. wondered what happened to the guy, then read up on his story on rp on reddit.
@theMarquis still married, eh?…good job!…lol… Wife objectively lower SMV but we all know how little “objectively” matters (although I have a mild spinal problem which means even though I’m in average shape and can handle daily life she sees me as physically weak on a daily basis because I can’t carry the kids around or lift baggage etc). that shouldn’t matter if you are socially dominant… Was never a dead bedrooms thing, but sex infrequent and crappy although she probably initiates as often as I do (although the total is low) do you want more?…if so, YOU have to initiate…… Read more »
@Sentient
Thanks man 🙂
I will definitely look for that vid, i just downloaded 6 shift videos (the one Yareally posted on this article up thread, check out the youtube user/poster he has a bunch of shift videos) i think one of them is the one you are talking about.
@Rollo – One could just substitute the tech startup scene for the gamer scene – in fact, many of the guys are gamers. There are a few more alpha male types around than the typical Warcraft Group Meetup but that’s about it. You should see how these women dress for “work” in these settings and how the beta chodes just code harder, thinking that one of them will fuck them for being the best engineer ever! Lol, perfect environment for me as that’s where I roll all the time any way. @Ya – Great points on not fucking up our… Read more »
@ya@all “When guys try to learn game by staying in their comfort zone environment, especially if they’re extremely socially awkward and/or in extremely socially awkward (or sexually stunted) environments/social circles, they simply won’t be able to rack up the amount of experience (including making mistakes) as fast as they could in a nightclub venue or high-traffic daygame environment and they will VERY likely creep out parts of their social circles and probably end up as outcasts from that environment (” goddammit you guys really have no clue how much value Yareally adds here. and i’m not saying that to be… Read more »
Andy Also, drinking too much again. It’s really easy to do. Try writing down exactly what you drink in a given 24 hour period, like someone else is going to read it. That can make you pause. Or spend just an hour in a bar drinking water and noting how stupid drunks are. Got nothing against alcohol per se, mind you. Just don’t want anyone here drinking too much of it, that’s all. On the bright side I do think I am making progress. Internally I don’t feel that much different but people are reacting to me differently. Your subcomms… Read more »
I am so thankful for this place of refuge.
“How does this dynamic work out for guys in more traditionally female spaces? For example there are a few boys at my girls dance class. Boys there only signed up for hip/hop. @Pinelero Specifically for the guys there for hip hop, it works in their favor that they’re actually there for their own goals instead of there to meet women. Like the guy in the club or bar who comes across as he’ll meet up with somebody if he finds one but it’s secondary to his own good time out. He’s go other things going on in his world. Girls… Read more »
Good God…. leelee go home to your man of integrity…. because to a woman integrity means only what it feels like in the moment. Whatever that is.
There is no there there..
And BOTH hands on the keyboard at all times!
@Quixotic Nice FR dude! Sounds like you ran into many of the problems I used to run into lol A few random points : – She sounds in her 30s. If you yourself are in your 30s too or older, you already start with a handicap to get a quick lay (provider hunting) – In my opinion, a girl who dresses super hot for a date = big shit test, like she is unconsciously thinking “he is gonna slobber all over me like he’s never seen a hot girl before?”. The tighter the dress, the less you should acknowledge it… Read more »
Scribbling The main problem with lite pick up at the cafe is not calibrating it’s not advancing the seduction. So you Will get a couple of chances to amp attraction but if you then don’t advance things – proof! It’s gone and she will put you in beta or FZ territory… You have small Windows of attraction. Daygame is powerful because the dissonance amps attraction And quickly opens those Windows. It’s doubly unexpected. BUT what goes up must come down. Take no action, no kino, no bounce, no number at your risk. Because the next time you meet it’s not… Read more »
@Habd Good, instructive comments @3:11 pm. Well done. “it just sounds like you are right on the edge of alpha…and you are pinging both sets of circuits (alpha/beta) so she can’t get a lock on what to feel is right about you… right now there seems to be too much ‘balance’…lol…stop pinging her beta ‘non-alpha’ circuits and handle those shit tests…and see what happens… until she is sexing you up as a ‘competitive advantage’ against other girls, treat them like shit tests… ps. you can do Andy’s ‘head kiss’ but only AFTER she gives you that feeling that she ‘deferred’…that’s… Read more »
@ TheMarquis Good to see you posting. SJF and Andy beat me to it, but I have a few thoughts if you will. ” Wife SAHM mostly. She does a bit of consulting but financial responsibility for family is all me plus I paid off tens of thousands of dollars of her credit card debt from her single days when we got married and I found out how much debt she had – blew my life savings on that and her “dream” wedding. We are okay financially – no debt, good lifestyle, but no savings plus my income is unpredictable… Read more »
I mean, ” Bang ” the mailman.
I don’t know anything actually, about Gamer Girls. I see them and hear them, but I don’t interact with them. Thus, the post is interesting for me. I like all different women, and ” nerds ” were no exception. Some very hot sex to be had. In my field, there are a lot of ” nerd ” female types. It’s fun to interact with them, and yeah, all of the ones I know see themselves as some kind of societal outsider. I dated/harem’ed a very cute Korean nerd for a few years after my divorce. Typical heavy framed glasses, hair… Read more »
@Rollo Thank you very much for this. Now I know my instincts have been correct. Nothing reasserts the proper frame like being the only dude who genuinely thinks the 2-6 range chicks at the nerd feeding trough are NOTHING SPECIAL. Muahaha. I can just taste that delicious merited spite. I don’t drink Sprite. I drink Spite. Hee hee hee. This means that any white knights I find I can just turn by actually being an ass-kicker. In other words, by being “myself” (Closet Red Pill). And they’ll be almost certain to think I’m in it to win it, when in… Read more »
@Sentient – So, I should number close or get them to bounce to another venue then, yes? Go for same day, other venue if not immediately? It’s so ripe for me, it seems crazy to not be able to exploit the cafe somehow. But I get what you are saying. I’m out to the nightclub tomorrow night to work it much more fully. We’ll see how it goes. MM is helping so much. Only wish I wasn’t so fucking sick tonight or I’d be out now. My subcomms have been so good this week I’m getting reactions from women that… Read more »