The Red Pill Parent

red_pill_parent

This week I’ll be exploring a new angle in the Red Pill: how parenting and family relations influence and direct the Blue Pill conditioning of a generation, and what Red Pill aware men can do to redirect this. It was encouraging to see fathers and sons together at the Man In Demand conference. I honestly wasn’t expecting this, but it was a humbling experience to see fathers and sons coming to a Red Pill awareness together. I also met with a few men who told me their sons had either turned them on to my books or that they would be required reading for their sons before they got out of their teens.

One of the greatest benefits of the conference was the inspiration and material I got from the men attending. A particular aspect of this was addressing how men might educate and help others to unplug and in that lay a wealth of observations about how these men’s upbringings had brought them to both their Blue Pill idealisms and ultimately their Red Pill awareness.

I’m beginning this series with some of these observations, but I plan to break protocol and be a bit more proscriptive in the last essay with regard to what I think may be beneficial ways to be a Red Pill parent. In The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine I included a chapter which outlined how men are primarily conditioned for lives and ego-investments in a Blue Pill idealism that ultimately prepares them for better serving the Feminine Imperative when their usefulness is necessary to fulfill women’s sexual (and really lifetime) strategies.

That chapter is only available in the book, but if you have it, it might be helpful to review it after you read this.

Reader (and MiD conference attendee) Jeremy had an excellent observation from Solipsism II:

@Capper

The only thing I take issue with is the advice, from the book that his wife read, which told her to place her husband above her children. Children come first for a mother, and they should for the father too. I’m not advocating to neglect her husband, but he needs to accept some biological facts and not be hurt because of it

What you’re repeating there is actually the first steps of a hostage crisis. That is first-wave-feminism boilerplate response. It is the first redirection in a misdirection perpetuated by women in order to sink any notion that men should have some authority on matters. Think of the children. It’s been repeated for so long, it’s a cliche…

It’s typical crab-basket behavior. Women seek power over their lives and somehow instinctively believe that the only way to achieve power is to take someone else’s power away. So they attack male authority by placing children above the man. This then becomes a stick with which to beat male authority into submission, as the woman is allowed to speak for the needs of the children. This is literally textbook subversion, and plays out on so many levels of human culture it tends to make one consider how boring humanity must look to any alien life that happens to stumble across our unremarkable corner of the universe.

When the children’s needs become the “throne” of the household, and the wife is allowed to speak for the children’s needs, then the authority of the household becomes a rather grotesque combination of immediate child needs and female manipulation. Worse still, the children are now effectively captives of the wife, because at any time she can accuse the husband of anything the law is forced to throw him in handcuffs for, and take away the kids.

What you’re repeating is the first steps in that hostage situation. Equalists will try to convince you of the logic that children come first, that children are the future, that all of that which makes them better is more important than anything else. This is bullshit.

Do you think cavemen sat around in caves all day playing and socially interacting with their babies? Do you think they had some kind of fresh-gazelle-delivery service that allowed him to interact with the children directly? Do you think the mothers were not under exactly the same survival condition, needing to forage for carrots, potatoes, berries, etc, while the men hunted and built structures? Do you think the “children” came first in any other era of humanity? If so, you are very sadly mistaken.

Children are more than capable of getting everything they need to know about how to live simply by watching their parents live a happy life together. This is how humans did things for eons, changing that order and putting the “children first” is frankly perverse and the beginning of the destruction of the family. Children are more than information sponges, they are blank minds that want desperately to be adult. Children want to understand everything that everyone around them understands, which is why a parent telling a child that you’re “disappointed” in them is more effective than a paddling. If you focus on children, you are frankly just spoiling them with attention that they will never receive in the real world. If instead you focus on yourself and your spouse, you will raise children that see you putting yourself as the MPO (as Rollo calls it), and your marriage/partnership as an important part of what you do each day.

Don’t put the children first. That’s essentially like negotiating with a terrorist, they’ll only make more demands on you until the cops storm the plane and lots of people get shot.

Your Mental Point of Origin should never waver from yourself.

American Parenting is Killing American Marriage

Of course, Ayelet Waldman’s blasphemy was not admitting that her kids were less than completely wonderful, only that she loved her husband more than them. This falls into the category of thou-shalt-have-no-other-gods-before-me. As with many religious crimes, judgment is not applied evenly across the sexes. Mothers must devote themselves to their children above anyone or anything else, but many wives would be offended if their husbands said, “You’re pretty great, but my love for you will never hold a candle to the love I have for John Junior.”

Mothers are also holy in a way that fathers are not expected to be. Mothers live in a clean, cheerful world filled with primary colors and children’s songs, and they don’t think about sex. A father could admit to desiring his wife without seeming like a distracted parent, but society is not as willing to cut Ms. Waldman that same slack. It is unseemly for a mother to enjoy pleasures that don’t involve her children.
There are doubtless benefits that come from elevating parenthood to the status of a religion, but there are obvious pitfalls as well. Parents who do not feel free to express their feelings honestly are less likely to resolve problems at home. Children who are raised to believe that they are the center of the universe have a tough time when their special status erodes as they approach adulthood. Most troubling of all, couples who live entirely child-centric lives can lose touch with one another to the point where they have nothing left to say to one another when the kids leave home.
In the 21st century, most Americans marry for love. We choose partners who we hope will be our soulmates for life. When children come along, we believe that we can press pause on the soulmate narrative, because parenthood has become our new priority and religion. We raise our children as best we can, and we know that we have succeeded if they leave us, going out into the world to find partners and have children of their own. Once our gods have left us, we try to pick up the pieces of our long neglected marriages and find new purpose. Is it surprising that divorce rates are rising fastest for new empty nesters? Perhaps it is time that we gave the parenthood religion a second thought.

I think these quotes outline the dynamic rather well; a method of control women can use to distract and defer away from Beta husbands is a simple appeal to their children’s interests as being the tantamount to their own or their husbands. If the child sits at the top of that love hierarchy and that child’s wellbeing and best interests can be defined by the mother, the father/husband is relegated to subservience to both the child and the mother.

This gets back to the preternatural Empathy myth that women, by virtue of just being a woman, has some instinctual, empathetic insight about placing that child above all else. That child becomes a failsafe and a buffer against having to entertain a real relationship with the father/husband and really consider his position in her Hypergamous estimate of him.

If that man isn’t what her Hypergamous instinct estimates him being as optimal (he’s the unfortunate Beta), then “she’s tolerating his presence for the kids’ sake.” Jeremy was responding to a comment made by Capper about an incident where a woman was being encouraged to put her husband before her kids in that love hierarchy priority. The fact that this is so unnatural for a woman that it would need to be something necessary to train a woman to speaks volumes about the facility with which women presume that their default priority ought to be for her kids.

Most men buy into this prioritization as well. It seems deductively logical that a woman would necessarily need to put her child’s attention priorities well above her husband’s. What’s counterintuitive to both parents is that it’s the health of their relationship (or lack) that defines and exemplifies the complementary gender understanding of the child. Women default to using their children as cats paws to assume primary authority of the family, and men are already preconditioned to accept this as the normative frame for the family.

As with all your relations with women, establishing a strong Frame is essential. The problem for men with even the strongest initial Frame with their wives is that they cede that Frame to their kids. Most men want the very best for their children; or there may be a Promise Keepers dynamic that guy is dealing with an makes every effort to outdo, and make up for, the sins of his father by sacrificing everything, but in so doing he loses sight of creating and maintaining a dominant Frame for not just his wife, but the state of his family.

It’s important to bear in mind that when you set the Frame of your relationship, whether it’s a first night lay or a marriage prospect, women enter your reality and your frame – the same needs to apply to any children within that relationship. Far too many fathers are afraid to embody that strong authority and expect their wives (and children) to recognize what should be his primary place in the family.

The fear is that by assuming this position they become the typical asshole father they hoped to avoid for most of their formative years. Even for men with strong masculine role models in their lives, the hesitation comes from a culture that ridicules fathers, or presumes they are potentially violent towards children. Thus the abdication of fatherly authority, in as positive a tense as possible, is abdicated before that child is even born.

Ectogenesis

At the Man in Demand conference last weekend I had a young guy ask me what my thoughts were about a man’s being interested in becoming a single parent of his own accord. I had this same question posed to me during my second interview with Christian McQueen and essentially it breaks down to a man supplying his own sperm, buying a suitable woman’s viable ovum to fertilize himself, and, I presume, hire a surrogate mother to carry that child to term. Thereupon he takes custody of that child and raises it himself as a single father.

In theory this arrangement should work out to something similar to a woman heading off the the sperm bank to (once again Hypergamously) select a suitable sperm donor and become a single parent of her own accord. It’s interesting that we have institutions and facilities like sperm banks to ensure women’s Hypergamy, but men, much less heterosexual men, must have exceptional strength of purpose and determination to do so.

Despite dealing with the very likely inability of the surrogate mother to disentangle her emotional investment in giving birth to a child she will never raise (hormones predispose women to this) a man must be very determined financially and legally to become a single father by choice. In principle I understand the sentiment of Red Pill men wanting to raise a child on their own. The idea is to do so free from the (at least direct) influence of the Feminine Imperative. However, I think this is in error.

My feelings on this are two part. First, being a complementarian, it is my belief that a child requires two healthy adult parents, male and female, with a firm, mature grasp of the importance, strengths and weaknesses of their respective gender roles (based on biological and evolutionary standards). Ideally they should exemplify and demonstrate those roles in a healthy fashion so as a boy or a girl can learn about masculinity and femininity from their respective parents’ examples.

Several generations after the sexual revolution, and after several generations of venerating feminine social primacy, we’ve arrived at a default collective belief that single mothers can perform the function of modeling and shaping masculinity in boys as well as femininity in girls equally well. The underlying social message in that is that women/mothers can be a one woman show with regard to parenting and thus men, fathers or the buffoons mainstream culture portrays them as, are superfluous to parenting – nice to have around, but not vital. This belief also finds fertile ground in the notion that men are obsolete.

Secondly, for all the equalist emphasis of Jungian gender theories about anima/animus and balancing feminine and masculine personality interests, it is evidence of an agenda to suggest that a woman is equally efficient in teaching and modeling masculine aspects to children as well as any positively masculine man. With that in mind, I think the reverse would be true for a deliberately single father – even with the best of initial intents.

Thus, I think a father might serve as a poor substitute for a woman when it comes to exemplifying a feminine ideal. The argument then of course is that, courtesy of a feminine-centric social order, women have so divorced themselves of conventional femininity that perhaps a father might teach a daughter (if not demonstrate for her) a better feminine ideal than a woman. Conventional, complementary femininity is so lost on a majority of women it certainly seems like logic for a man to teach his daughter how to recapture it.

Raising Betas

This was the trap that 3rd wave feminism fell into; the belief that they knew how best to raise a boy into their disempowered and emasculated ideal of their redefined masculinity. Teach that boy a default deference and sublimation to feminine authority, redefine it as respect, teach him to pee sitting down and share in his part of the choreplay, and well, the world is bound to be a better more cooperative place right?

So it is for these reason I think that the evolved, conventional, two-parent heterosexual model serves best for raising a child. I cannot endorse single parenthood for either sex. Parenting should be as collaborative and as complementary a partnership as is reflected in the complementary relationship between a mother and father.

It’s the height of gender-supremacism to be so arrogantly self-convinced as to deliberately choose to birth a child and attempt to raise it into the contrived ideal of what that “parent” believes the other gender’s role ought to be.

This should put the institutionalized social engineering agenda of the Feminine Imperative into stark contrast for anyone considering intentional single parenthood. Now consider that sperm banks and feminine-specific fertility institutions have been part of normalized society for over 60 years and you can see that Hypergamy has dictated the course of parenting for some time now. This is the definition of social engineering.

I’ll admit that when I got the question of single fatherhood I was a bit incredulous of the mechanics of it. Naturally it would be an expense most men couldn’t entertain. However, as promised, I did my homework on it, and found out that ectogenesis was yet another science-fiction-come-reality that feminists have already considered and have planned for:

Prominent feminists and activists, including Andrea Dworkin and Janice Raymond, have concluded that not only will women be further marginalized and oppressed by this eventuality, but they will become obsolete.

Fertility, and the ability to be the species’ reproductive engine, are virtually the only resources that women collectively control, they argue. And, although women do have other “value” in a patriarchal society–child rearing, for example–gestation remains, worldwide, the most important.  Even in the most female-denigrating cultures women are prized, if only, for their childbearing. If you take that away, then what? This technology becomes another form of violence.

Women already have the power to eliminate men and in their collective wisdom have decided to keep them. The real question now is, will men, once the artificial womb is perfected, want to keep women around?

[…]“We may find ourselves without a product of any kind with which to bargain,” she writes. “We have to ask, if that last power is taken and controlled by men, what role is envisaged for women in the new world? Will women become obsolete?”

This was a great article and it came at an auspicious time – the time we find women sweating about having their sexual market leverage with men potentially being undercut by sex-bots and/or immersive virtual sex substitutes.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Leave a Reply

  Subscribe  
Notify of
Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

Although no cure for IB is known, treatments to relieve symptoms exist. This including dietary adjustments, medication, and psychological interventions.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

I am neither pissed off nor indignant.

What’s that smell from the attic, again?

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy
Offline

” Most troubling of all, couples who live entirely child-centric lives can lose touch with one another to the point where they have nothing left to say to one another when the kids leave home.”

Ah, the paradox of the upper middle class suburban life with two suv’s with rear seat dvd players, a vaulted ceiling house, scheduled violin and soccer practice, granite counter tops,…
I think must husbands are at best 3rd on the list. Her friends are second.

keyser Soze
Guest
keyser Soze
Offline

In Insanitybytes own words :

“The behavior, the worthiness of your spouse fades to background noise . We marry flawed and imperfect human beings , they are going to at times be unworthy , that is a given! We honor our commitment to Christ, we do not love or submit to our husbands based on who they are, but on who Christ is.”

What a statement. Wow, just wow.
Poor Mr. bytes .

So this is what you think of the Man you married, what about when children become unworthy -that is a given too! No?

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Jesus, being married to IB sounds like voluntarily becoming an inmate at an asylum where the crazies have taken over.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

Right, so enough time wasted on that.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline
insanitybytes22
Guest

Do you have something against homeschoolers, Tomassi?

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

Is the number “4” problematic, Bites?

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

Letter to my son You have power over your mind – not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength. Marcus Aurelius, Meditations How do you lose? The way you lose is more important than the way you win. Prepare plan inspire attitude self esteem The best humor is based on truth when it lets us acknowledge an uncomfortable or unmentionable experience. Character without it I am nothing. Persistence Perseverance (The Red Pill) No. Anything trying to kill you is your enemy. Epitomize resilience and resolve. Glenn Cunningham Education. Preparation, anticipation Reluctantly my offspring will come from me having… Read more »

Striver
Guest
Striver
Offline

Never understood why IB gets so much attention. I seriously don’t care one way or another, but I guess other guys do. I have seen enough of that stuff here at this point. That is the Spock in me. Always went my own way. Didn’t want to lead, though I do that with the kids more now when they’re with me. But I was never that afraid of independent thought. Had my first real date post divorce. Chick my age (49) pulls me aside at a meetup, wants to talk divorce stuff. My age, but nice hair, thin, too thin… Read more »

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter
Offline

“…we do not love or submit to our husbands based on who they are, but on who Christ is.”

So…ummm…yeah, sorta makes Jesus sound like a pimp.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

Amusing anecdote from Saturday: didn’t feel like trying to go hit up the bars solo, but didn’t feel like staying in so I cruised all the popular night spots on the bike. Waved and nodded to a lot of folks, but one particular Porsche Panamera in traffic was driving like absolute shit, squeezing my lane and generally being a jackass as I started to swing toward home. I roll up to a stop light, they roll up next to me, one dude in a car full of 4 drunk ass chicks. Chicks come up waving, I decide to play this… Read more »

Thelien
Guest
Thelien
Offline

Anonymous Reader, thanks for clarifying! I’m not American but I’d like to propel my kids into the UMC. It’s easier in Canada because of non prohibitive education costs. Jilly Cooper wrote a similar thing about the UK in 1979: “Class I has the fewest divorces, probably because they can’t afford two mortgages and two sets of school fees if they marry again, because no one’s going to give them legal aid, and because they think divorce would be bad for their careers.” In Soviet Russia, breaking Communist morality by divorce was bad for your career in the Party/Army/whatever, so careerists… Read more »

redlight
Guest
redlight
Offline

‘We sit down, and she gives me a “don’t look at me like that.” Well, that killed it. Now I know what happened with the other guy.’

why did you waste more time on this bitch?

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

I’ve also come to the conclusion that women who want to have a lot of kids, say 4+, is potentially a red flag. Children are a natural threat to fatherly frame in large numbers and I think some women instinctively realize this. My mother had too many kids, though I doubt she would admit this readily. How many is too many? That depends on the individual, but it should be obvious by the time a woman has two kids how well she can handle more. If she’s working her butt off to feed the kids well, keep them clean and… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

OT:

What’s the best way to handle a girl you’ve next’d if you’re forced into a social situation where she’s there? Ignore? Engage?

Seraph
Guest
Seraph
Offline

Zero tolerance. You’ve wasted far too much time, and there are far too many women complaining about the lack of available ‘good men, to entertain anything less than 100% attention and interest. The old me would not understand this. I would have pursued it to the bitter end. The new me? Fucking A… Feeling good today. Better than good. I have continued to drop weight and it seems like I hit some zone or something. I feel lighter but beyond that, there is a certain spring in my step. Reminds me a little of 2 years ago when I hit… Read more »

Seraph
Guest
Seraph
Offline

@Rollo,

NEXT. Striver doesn’t have time to entertain a woman trapped in an adolescent social skill set.

You REALLY should do a post explaining what an adolescent social skill set is and how it differs from an adult one. Every time you use that phrase I cringe because I sense I have one but don’t know exactly what the hell it is. I can’t be the only one.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Thanks Rollo, that’s a helpful re-read. I only ask because it seems this weekend that’s exactly what I’ll be dealing with. Fortunately there should be lots of other women around as well.

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

@Seraph: “That is kind of how I felt walking to work today. Is that why the mood’s so improved?”

Movement is serenity. -Sir Stirling Moss

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

Pussy is just pussy until a woman makes herself something more.

Twitter worthy and should be shouted from the rooftops.

redlight
Guest
redlight
Offline

The amusing thing is Lolo Jones (see The Adolescent Social Skill Set link) was recently back in the news. Still a virgin she tweeted:

“Well when Serena breaks it off with Drake I’m here for you boo. My season is already in the crapper so no one will blame you.”

(Serena the tennis star, Drake music, Lolo in 2014 had made a comment about Drake and all Rihanna’s ex-boyfriends)

People replied pointing out that “you know that Drake likes sex”

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

@Sun Wukong My uncle in France built a custom bike that out ran a Ferrari in At a Red-light. @Serapth Your learning man my disassociation in relationships is dramatically changing with digestion of heathy Habits and constantly breaking away from my comfort zone. One thing that really helps is Nature being alone in Nature and focusing on all parts of myself heals a lot of of the habit of leaving the moment. If I where in a. Relationship I wouldn’t be in the moment if sex occurred. That’s how horrible of a place I was in. It’s changing slowly. Getting… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Best quote from that post that Rollo linked that I had previously never read: Simply put there are experiences and opportunities for personal growth that only embracing our sexuality can offer. One point I regularly make with respect to AFCs is that at some stage in their maturation they became retarded. I use “retarded” in the clinical, not the derogatory sense here; their social maturation becomes held up by their lack of access to experiences that would help them develop new cognitive models. Most of the time this is due to an inability to see past old conventions they learned… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy
Offline

I have taken the advice of some of the people here and tried being present more, and while I certainly need to practice it more, I am wondering if it already made a difference.

@Seraph

I’m totally in the same place. I used to hate happy people, but I think I’m becoming one of them. I just don’t give a shit what people think anymore. Most of them are simply beneath me. Sad but true.

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

Yeah, I’m retarded as well. Question on interest levels: (Talking about my soon to be ex wife.) If I am confused about her interest level, that means her interest level is low or non-existent, right? Not mixed messages, just my rationalizing to protect my ego. I understand that. But, then why do I keep thinking that her interest level was actually higher, and that I am interrupting her interest level incorrectly? I keep having thoughts that my beta insecurity in the beginning is the reason I think she had low interest level and that she actually did have a higher… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

I’m a little confused by Sun’s story. Were the girls trying to get on the bike to ride off with him, or were they trying to assault him for being upset at their lack of consideration?

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

Rollo Too many guys think a NEXT (even a tactical NEXT) should be some kind of punishment for a girl who’s just not that responsive. It’s not, it’s pragmatism, plain and simple; particularly for a guy in Striver’s situation. That’s thinking like a Beta, maybe with oneitis: “If she were to NEXT me it would be a total rejection of me as a human being and it would hurt a lot and I would never want to hurt a woman that much”. Rollo said men are the true romantics, and I argue with that sometimes, but there is for sure… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

@CaveClown If I am confused about her interest level, that means her interest level is low or non-existent, right? Not mixed messages, just my rationalizing to protect my ego. http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/23/wait-for-it/ Iron Rule of Tomassi #3 Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait. When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy
Offline

That shows low interest, no?

I guess I would say that you’re asking the wrong questions. Are you interested in her? Does she satisfy your needs and wants? If no, next. It’s not about her, it’s about you.

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

@Cave Clown: ” . . . why do I keep thinking that her interest level was actually higher, and that I am interrupting her interest level incorrectly?”

Because you are projecting what you think should be, rather than looking at what is. You have a model of your relationship in your mind that you interpose between yourself and reality.

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline
Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

So, I’m trying to understand the specific situation that Striver was describing. He was hiking with her, they stopped to rest/drink/eat, he looked at her… and as a result of his eye contact she spoke the words, “Don’t look at me like that.” ?? Am I getting it right?

I’m not sure I would have continued the hike at that point, seems like a completely transparent power play. Might have been best to just walk back up to your car.

Andy
Guest
Andy
Offline

I’m not sure I would have continued the hike at that point, seems like a completely transparent power play.

It really doesn’t say much for this woman if she said it in a condescending tone. I think a good response probably would have been something along the lines of, “You’re not fucking with a regular guy here. You’ve hit the jackpot and if you can’t realize that then I’m wasting my time with you” If that doesn’t work then GTFO.

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

I keep trying to rationalize that she made me wait for sex because I was her first. Crawl under barb wire to fuck me? Yeah right. Only under threat of divorce did she start to fuck me.

Andy,

Good call, you’re right.

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

I took the hiking bitch’s comment to mean that he had too much lust in his eye. Trying to stick him in beta, not sexual, role right off the bat.

I like to think I would of ended the hike, maybe even left her ass there if we had our own cars.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

@CC,

I mean, I’m no game master, but I think the only choices at that point are either intensifying the eye contact and/or direct escalation in complete defiance of her shit test, or leaving. Her words/actions seem to be exactly as you describe, trying to throw the man she’s with into the friends-forever-non-sexual-bin.

redlight
Guest
redlight
Offline
Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

@redlight

lol

https://twitter.com/lolojones/status/642414604950327296

Was I really that retarded?

Yes I was.

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

My guess is hiking bitch will be super nice now. Compliments, fake interest. Maybe even put out, but probably not actual PIV at first. Scraps of affection to suck him in. Sex, but lots of excuses to get out of it. I’m on my period, I’m not feeling well, I worked too many hours can’t we just cuddle? I want to take this slow. You’re a good man, I’m sure you understand. Cue the BJ. Few weeks later, where is this going? What are we? I think we would be great together. Cue the porn star sex. Then no sex,… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

Maybe a little projection of my marriage with my last comment…my bad. Lol

keyser Soze
Guest
keyser Soze
Offline

What Lolo Jones! This is a smarter Olympian

Suzy Hamilton, and she wrote a book about it.

http://nypost.com/2015/09/20/olympian-turned-hooker-has-lots-of-excuses-but-no-regrets/

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

My understanding is that remaining virginal while being an Olympian is like remaining an ice cube in hell. Try throwing very healthy, highly attractive, drug-enhanced people between the ages of 18 and 40 into a small area and then throw in the anxiety of competition, the thrill of victory and the search for conquest after defeat into the mix. A virgin wouldn’t stand a chance.

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning
Offline

@IB – ““The behavior, the worthiness of your spouse fades to background noise . We marry flawed and imperfect human beings , they are going to at times be unworthy , that is a given! We honor our commitment to Christ, we do not love or submit to our husbands based on who they are, but on who Christ is.” Who decides what are flaws and what are not flaws? Who decides what is perfect and what is imperfect? Who determines the qualifications of “worthiness”? Worthy for who? Worthy for what? “…we do not love or submit to our husbands… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning
Offline

Christ – “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Guest

“So….do any of you guys feel IB loves you?”

Would I tolerate your endless abuse, attempt to understand WTH is going on in your heads, if I did not love you? Would I come where I was obviously not wanted and attempt to communicate with any of you?

The opposite of love is indifference boys, not hatred. Were I indifferent to you, I would not be here, attempting to have a completely futile discussion.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Would we tolerate your endless reclassification of rational discussion as abuse if we didn’t see right through your lack of rigor?

The opposite of intelligence is not stupidity, it is apathy, and you’ve got it in spades, IB. You should shut up, read, and learn.

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning
Offline

For whatever this is worth, I wanted to share it here. Last night I spoke to my oldest half sister. She is 81. She married my Uncle. Yes you read that correctly. My uncle married my half sister. My mothers younger brother married my fathers oldest daughter. This is real. I cannot make this up, no one can. They were the same age (29 years older than me) and they met their first year of high school together, started dating at age fourteen and married at twenty. They were married sixty one years. There was no blood relationship between any… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus
Offline

Great post, wonderful topic, go fuck yourself IrritableBowel22. I read so many comments that I want to reply to, but I am trying not to grind everything to a halt with long assed replies. So I will condense and hope it all makes sense…. Having children can still be a highly enjoyable and rewarding experience. In my case, it has been one of my greatest achievements of my life. My first marriage morphed into a disaster of which I take full responsibility. The birth of my first child came under extreme circumstances and I allowed those circumstances to turn on… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Guest

….go fuck yourself IrritableBowel22…..

“Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you…..”

That’s a sweet love story, Not Born This Morning. I am sorry for your loss.

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky
Offline

“For whatever this is worth, I wanted to share it here…

Thanks, NBTM. These are stories that also need to be told.

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning
Offline

IB – “That’s a sweet love story, Not Born This Morning. I am sorry for your loss.” Thank you. This is not to downplay or reject your sympathy, so please don’t interpret it that way. You can trust that I sincerely do not mean this to be a rejection of your sympathy and I trust you meant it sincerely. However, it was not “a sweet love story”. It was not a story at all. It was and is real life. I did not share it thinking of it as a story, it all really happened, is happening. Unfortunately, I cannot… Read more »

Chump No More
Guest
Chump No More
Offline

“Would we tolerate your endless reclassification of rational discussion as abuse if we didn’t see right through your lack of rigor? The opposite of intelligence is not stupidity, it is apathy, and you’ve got it in spades, IB. You should shut up, read, and learn.” IB, if you want to understand why all you get here is contempt, read @Jeremy’s comment above a few times, let it truly sink in, then read it again. Will Rodgers wisely said, “You never get a 2nd chance to make a 1st impression”. You blew your chance a long time ago and now you’ve… Read more »

keyser Soze
Guest
keyser Soze
Offline

@insanity.
Scroll down to Playing the devil’s advocate from Rollo’s blogroll.
Playing the devil’s advocate blog has a great post ,let me know which part of it you like.

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky
Offline

@Sun

Lol, that’s awesome. Next try to pull a Vitaly.

https://youtu.be/XbYNAZxcWh4

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky
Offline

@CaveClown

If you’re confused about a woman’s interest level, you’re probably trying to confuse yourself about her interest level.

Dragonfly
Guest
Dragonfly
Offline

@Andy “The craziest thing was that, even more powerful than pregnancy hormones are the lactating hormones kick in. They are incredibly strong. While my wife was nursing our boys full time she literally had ZERO alpha interest. I’m sure some of you guys are thinking. “oh yeah, that’s because you weren’t alpha enough, blah, blah, blah”… No. I’m telling you they are designed to drive that man out of their life. Her vagina becomes drier than the Sahara. Her ability to orgasm vanishes completely and most times sex is painful. Also, did you know that when women are lactating their… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky
Offline

Re: Striver’s hiking girl: everyone suggests just leaving when she told him to ‘not look at me like that.’ Jeremy gives another possibility – testing her frame/calling her bluff by escalating. Both are fine for dominant men to do, if you can do them without emotion and congruently. Neither are what a dominant and happy man would do. For your own amusement, agree and amplify the shit test by pretending to be beta-butthurt about it. Make it into a melodramatic game about how you were falling for her and now your heart is crushed, or how she’s shaming your for… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

“It doesn’t always produce this kind of scenario. I’m not sure what’s going on with your wife… but this is the exact opposite of what we experience. Maybe some of the men here can give you advice??” What he wrote is almost exactly what I experienced with my wife. I have two other friends of mine that say the same thing, that during pregnancy and nursing all she wanted was comfort, no sex, no alpha. I took it to mean that the old “pregnant women are more horny” trope was false. Probably depends on each individual woman and circumstance. My… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

“If you’re confused about a woman’s interest level, you’re probably trying to confuse yourself about her interest level”

Huh?

Forge, can you flesh this out a bit?

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

Bites:
The opposite of love is indifference boys, not hatred.

Good girly! You’ve learned something from the androsphere. Have a cookie.

Were I indifferent to you, I would not be here, attempting to have a completely futile discussion.

No, you’d be busy converting some of us to a smell from the attic, dearie. Or at least trying to…

Bites, the walking FI gift that keeps on giving.

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

@Cave Clown: He’s saying more or less the same thing I did from a different perspective, i.e. you’re playing head games on yourself. Your gut is telling you her interest is low, but you want it to be high and are trying to do your best to interpret it that way, so you are “confused.”

benfromtexas
Guest
benfromtexas
Offline

Wacokid, that’s awesome.

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

@kfg “Because you are projecting what you think should be, rather than looking at what is. You have a model of your relationship in your mind that you interpose between yourself and reality.” Holy hell I do that a lot. @Jeremy “I’m not sure I would have continued the hike at that point, seems like a completely transparent power play. Might have been best to just walk back up to your car.” I climbed Mt Washington in a somewhat similar fashion. Except said person was diabetic. Forgivable yet harsh and ruthless. Come to think of it all my lessons about… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Let’s presume that both Dragonfly and Andy & CaveClown are right and there are some women who are feeling sexually available/active during/after pregnancy and some who don’t. We know what the father is feeling during that time, he needs sexual contact the same as any other day of his life. Now, you can take what the wife says at face value, that she’s in pain and she just doesn’t feel like it, and essentially self-sacrifice like any modern-world male would. Presuming that is the route you go, what is she sacrificing in return? You, her man, have a biologically programmed… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus
Offline

@Andy “The craziest thing was that, even more powerful than pregnancy hormones are the lactating hormones kick in. They are incredibly strong. While my wife was nursing our boys full time she literally had ZERO alpha interest. I’m sure some of you guys are thinking. “oh yeah, that’s because you weren’t alpha enough, blah, blah, blah”… No. I’m telling you they are designed to drive that man out of their life. Her vagina becomes drier than the Sahara. Her ability to orgasm vanishes completely and most times sex is painful. Also, did you know that when women are lactating their… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@Jeremy

Were the girls trying to get on the bike to ride off with him, or were they trying to assault him for being upset at their lack of consideration?

Yes.

It was that “You pissed me off and played with me, I want to come play with you” type of “anger”. They were trying to act angry with big grins on their face. I negged the entire car and it worked basically.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

kfg
“Because you are projecting what you think should be, rather than looking at what is. You have a model of your relationship in your mind that you interpose between yourself and reality.”

Exactly. “Ought to be” vs. “actually is”. Conservative deniers of Game often wind up insisting that women aren’t as Game teaches, because they ought to be something else.

Ought vs. is. Women sometimes wander off down rabbit trails into the world of “ought”, men can’t really afford to do that.

Dragonfly
Guest
Dragonfly
Offline

@Jeremy “Now, you can take what the wife says at face value, that she’s in pain and she just doesn’t feel like it, and essentially self-sacrifice like any modern-world male would.
Presuming that is the route you go, what is she sacrificing in return?
You, her man, have a biologically programmed need that she can satisfy the best, just like your newborn child, and she’s decided not to help you out with that. Isn’t that a bit like not changing the kids diaper often enough, or not nursing him enough?
I would argue it is.”

Exactly this!

+1

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus
Offline

Jeremy After the birth of both my children ( 2 women ), both expressed a loss of sexual desire for about 3 months. In both cases I was informed that each understood that it was ” unfair ” that I suffer because of the lack of desire on their part and sex/blowjobs/handjobs ensued, usually without any prompting on my part. Now I can see that maybe I was just fortunate (?). I’m gathering that this is very individualistic. After childbirth I am prone to give a woman a pass. They have a volatile hormonal cocktail inside of them and it… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

Supposedly I’m going to be playing around with a 300hp turbo Hayabusa this weekend. We’ll see what kind of trouble that gets me in.

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline
Hosswire
Guest
Hosswire
Offline

My parents “put the children first”. To the extent that they separated after the youngest went off to college. A lot attention & energy went to us. And a lot of their day-to-day & major life decisions were explicitly made on our behalf, to their emotional expense. And they let us know it too. Especially my dad, who seemed pretty miserable all the time. It probably did not help that he allowed my mom to nag & browbeat him into a subordinate position. I don’t think they did us any great favors by focusing so much on us either. I… Read more »

Guy
Guest
Guy
Offline

Why putting the kids’ wishes first isn’t always a good idea:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3253492/Mom-captures-emotional-life-changing-moment-transgender-daughter-14-surprised-hormone-therapy-drugs-waiting-TWO-YEARS.html

tldr; Parents follow the whims of their biological son to go on massively disruptive hormonal regime. Transgenders are at a much higher suicide risk for suicide than other sections of the population, and many treatments are permanently irreversible. This should be considered child abuse.

Craiger
Guest
Craiger
Offline

Another great article Rollo!…. For fun, at your next party or happy hour in mixed company of course, state, “A woman should put her man first in their relationship, not the kids” and watch the faces of anger/outrage, you will even get the betas in a lather. Few women will agree, if ever, to that statement. But be sure, you will be the talk of the party after that. I put that up there with saying to women, “So when was the last romantic/sexy/seductive thing you’ve done for your man?”. You will hear crickets, then usually comments of complete indignance… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

My parents “put the children first”. To the extent that they separated after the youngest went off to college. It’s been a “feature” since the 70’s, apparently. Naturally the Boomers have raised it to an art form. I’m guessing that making children the center of the family means when the youngest leaves there’s big, gaping hole in the center of the family, and a couple of older people with grey hair looking at each other saying, “Who the heck are you?”, not a good situation. IMO women have a natural tendency to “marry” their children. Used to be sisters, mothers,… Read more »

longgone
Guest
longgone
Offline

Go fuck yourself Irritating Bitch 22. We’re all stupider for reading your drivel.

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

@Guy

Says in that article that not only did they put him on estrogen, but they gave him a “puberty suppressing implant”

What in the actual fuck.

I do very little reading of mainstream media. I stick to the likes of trm, ch, danger and play, etc.

I’ve been in “total immersion” mode on mindset, game, and red pill training. So when I read shit like what you linked to, I suddenly remember how fucked up the world can be.

All I can do is laugh.

One day “have you always been a woman?” might be part of my screening process for chicks…

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

Re: post child birth

So all y’all are saying that a wife should at least attempt to meet her husband’s needs?

So…my wife ignoring me for 6 months after our daughter was born was not an indicator of interest? I don’t mean just sexually either, I mean 100% ignore, not a word said unless absolutely necessary.

I miss the quiet.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@kfg

Goddamnit I love Hunter S Thompson. The world is a lot worse off without him. And seeing as my daily rider is this beast that actually outperforms that 900ss:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/2007_Triumph_Sprint_ST_14.jpg

I suspect my epitaph will be quite similar.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus
Offline

Cave Damn, completely ignoring? I have no words. Like I said, it’s highly individualistic. Maybe some others who’ve gone through the whole birth thing can chime in here? My experience is that the women in my life at least ( said ) that they understood what I must’ve been going through ( even though I wasn’t ” going through” that much at the time ) and made spirited but mostly lackluster attempts at providing what I call Sexual Comfort. I appreciated the gestures. Idk how I would have handled 6 months of ignoring honestly. I may have shown up on… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

Man, that article about the teenager being permanently damaged with hormones is so pathetic. Look, I get that “gender dysphoria” exists, but you know what? There’s people out there who are convinced that their own leg really isn’t there leg. These are brain problems. Wiring problems. The answer isn’t in cutting up men so they can pretend to be women, the answer is in rewiring the brain so that a given human being can be comfortable in their own skin. Seriously, the whole “gender reassignment” industry is totally parasitic, it’s a 20th century idea. Oh, and if we are all… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

At the risk of looking like a beta loser (like I care)

6 months is her record for all at once. I figure total ignore time is right around 3.5 years in total.

I don’t think I’m in a single photo with my youngest as an infant, except in the delivery room.

I wasn’t kidding when I said she BPD.

I’ll ignore you and then threaten to kill myself for you ignoring me.

She’s acting very normal right now…

Divorce paperwork might have something to do with that

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

Cave Clown, 6 months of ignoring you totally? The best spin I can put on that is post partum depression, and for that she should have been seeing a doctor. Another explanation is that you were way too beta, and she had gotten what she wanted; ring and baybee.

I’ve known some couples where the woman had some serious depression issues, it was hard on both of them. Even that woudn’t excuse a total cold shoulder, though.

There ain’t an excuse for that.

insanitybytes22
Guest

“Unfortunately, I cannot help but think the description “a sweet love story” trivializes the reality of it into an unreal context; seems somehow condescending. “a sweet love story” seems to make it frivolous and relatively meaningless..”

I meant it, I am sorry for your loss. What you are rejecting is my feminized language, but that is simply how I speak and not intended to sound condescending at all.

longgone
Guest
longgone
Offline

Does anyone else detect a slight difference in tone from it? Maybe Mr. Byteher has taken over and she’s on her way to being another aroma in the crawl space. He’ll gradually wind down her hobby blog and Mr. B will keep up less and less of her appearances here. It’s how I’d handle it…..Looks like it’s started.

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

Anon reader, see my comment above. The stories I could tell about being with a BPD chick. My God. Intentional animal cruelty? Insisting on half the house being play area for kids? (Yes half) Take cash out of bank for coffee and its for hookers and porn? Being rude to my employees? Telling my mother that she wants to visit more but I don’t, then telling me she won’t visit my family because she is jealous of how close I am to them and not her? Buying and agreeing with books about traditional gender roles and convincing me that being… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

Nah, ib just realizes she overstepped and is trying to backtrack by adding comfort and affirmations of value. If you read it though, she is actually trying to increase her value. Insecurity.

This is the stage where if we were her husband, we’d be getting our dicks sucked.

Its the high on the coaster, it always comes back down.

Its the crazy chick way. Fly that crazy flag!

I can smell crazy a mile away.

insanitybytes22
Guest

“I can smell crazy a mile away.”

Apparently not, since you seem to have married it.

Listen however, pregnancy hormones generally increase desire, as does childbirth and nursing. Also threats of suicide are extremely abusive and I’m sorry you’re going through that.

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

“I meant it,” Feigned sincerity. “I am sorry for your loss.” The socially required expression of condolences, proving she has sympathy and social awareness. “What you are rejecting” Oh there it is, the blame. Your fault. “is my feminized language,” How can you argue with that? Not her fault she is female, therefore you have no basis to disagree. “but that is simply how I speak” She can’t help it, how dare you insinuate that she could? “and not intended to sound condescending at all.” So if you took it as condescending that is your fault and not her’s because… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

“Apparently not, since you seem to have married it.
Listen however, pregnancy hormones generally increase desire, as does childbirth and nursing. Also threats of suicide are extremely abusive and I’m sorry you’re going through that.”

Oh, start it with the shaming insult this time.

Gotta be more clever than that.

insanitybytes22
Guest

Cave Clown, you ability to create drama where none exists is downright womanly.

THAT was a shaming insult. As was the comment about you inability to identify crazy.

My condolences to Not Born this Morning and my empathy for your unfortunate situation were both sincere.

longgone
Guest
longgone
Offline

Not buying it Mr. B. You rock man! Think Little Trees…Lots of them.

%d bloggers like this: