“Men are to blame for women’s behavior. The Feminine Imperative only has as much power as men have allowed it to have. Hypergamy (open or otherwise) wouldn’t be the unrestrained social juggernaut it’s become without men’s complicity or accomplice.”
This quote is a go-to rationalization I read a lot from women just coming to terms with their first taste of the Red Pill. Unfortunately it’s also become a common refrain among certain sets in the manosphere; this rationale is usually particular to the moral absolutist strains of the manosphere.
When I read it from women it’s kind of ironic considering it usually comes from women who share in the same moral absolutism, who were “so different when they were in college”, but they’ve had their Epiphany and “got right with God.” They often cling to the Strong Independent® identity for themselves, but turn over a rock and show them the visceral, observable, ugly truth of unfettered Hypergamy and then, then it’s men’s partial or total responsibility for fostering women’s conditions.
It becomes men’s fault for not having the fortitude and presence of mind to correct them when they needed it – never mind the lifetime of Blue Pill conditioning that taught them judging women made them misogynistic assholes. I understand axiom that men and women get the men and women they deserve, but I wanted to explore this blame game dynamic a bit more.
From Validation Hunting & The Jenny Bahn Epiphany:
The Feminine Imperative relies on memes and conventions which shift the ownership of women’s personal liabilities for their sexual strategy to men.
When men are blamed for the negative consequences of women’s sexual strategy it helps to blunt the painful truths that Jenny Bahn is (to her credit) honestly confronting in her article at 30 years old and the SMV balance shifts towards enabling men’s capacity to effect their own sexual strategy.
As I was writing the Adaptations series it occurred to me that men on the ends of both the Alpha and Beta spectrum adapt their own sexual strategies in accord with the sexual marketplace and how that environment dictates the approach to what seems the most efficient.
As I stated in the last post, Hypergamy is nothing if not pragmatic, and efficient. However, men’s adapting to the “market” dictates of Hypergamy has to be equally efficient if that guy is to fulfill his own sexual imperative. Pragmatism doesn’t have time for how things should be. You make the best play with what’s in front of you.
Just to illustrate, for about 25 years or so, popular culture strongly pointed men towards a sexual strategy that could be defined as Beta Game. Play nice, respect a woman by default, be supportive of her self-image and ambitions to the sacrifice of your own, don’t judge her and do your utmost to identify with the feminine, was the call to action that, deductively, should make a man more attractive to a woman.
Furthermore, the intrasexual combat amongst men for sexual qualification was (at least ostensibly) focused on out-supporting, out-sympathizing, out-emoting and out-identifying with the feminine more so than other men. To set oneself apart from “other guys” the seemingly most strategic tact was to accept what women said they wanted from men. To pragmatically effect this men gladly joined the chorus of ridiculing conventional masculinity; denouncing and resisting the very element that would in fact have set them apart from the nebulous “other guys“.
So while this is an illustration of men’s deductive pragmatism in their adapting to the SMP, it’s also an illustration of how that adaptation can work against men’s best interests. Between the 80s, 90s and into the early 2000s this adaptation involved men following women’s lead to systematically turn conventional, positive masculinity into ridiculous or gay-associations of “macho-ness”. Later, defining the very idea of masculinity would progress from ambiguousness to women being the sole authority of what masculinity should mean to a man.
Women and Moral Agency
For as long as I’ve read and commented on Christo-Manosphere blogs a common thread has cropped up again and again; the debate as to whether women have the same moral agency or the same accountability for it as men. I’ve always found it fascinating because for all my dealing in cold harsh observable facts I’ve never paused to consider that women might have some excusable reason for their ethically challenged behavior. In my own estimate Hypergamy isn’t inherently bad or good – it just depends on whether you find yourself on the sharp end of it.
My point here isn’t to reheat that debate, but rather to see how it feeds into the rationale that men are in some way responsible for what contemporary women have become, and how they’ll progress if men don’t assume some responsibility for women’s behaviors.
Hypergamy is pragmatic, but it’s also inherently duplicitous. It’s unjust and unforgivable to a guy who doesn’t measure up to his burden of performance. When you consider the War Brides dynamic it’s downright reprehensible, but we have to also consider the pragmatism in that dynamic. From a male perspective we want to apply masculine concepts of honor and justice to women’s action – and in the past there was a high price to pay for infractions of it – but are we presuming our concept of justice is one that’s universally common to that of women?
Much in the same way we were Blue Pill conditioned to presume that our idealistic concept of love was mutually shared by women I would propose that men’s concepts of justice, honor, and (from an intrasexual perspective) respect are dissimilar from those of women.
For women, whatever actions serve Hypergamy are justifiable actions.
All that needs to be sorted out is reconciling those action with the concept of justice held by men. In the intersexual arena, what best serves men’s imperatives is justice. Up until the sexual revolution the balance between the sexes’ concepts of justice was mitigated by mutual compromise – each had something to lose and something to gain by considering the other sex’s imperatives.
For roughly the past 70 years this balance between the two concepts has listed heavily to the feminine. Our age has been defined by women’s unilateral and ubiquitous control of Hypergamy, and as such it is women’s sexual imperatives that is biologically and sociologically setting the course for future generations.
Along with that unprecedented control comes the prioritizing of women’s concept of justice above that of men’s. We can see this evidenced in every law, social convention or social justice movement that entitles women to rights and privileges that free them of any accountability for the negative consequence their Hypergamously based behavior would hold them to in a concept of justice that men would have.
I would also argue that women’s inherent solipsism reinforces this separation of concepts of justice between the sexes.
Rivelino had a good take on this on Twitter:
1 The woman is always the victim
2 Nothing is her fault
3 She is not responsible for her actions
4 A man is to blame
To which I’ll add a 5th: Any fault is always a ‘strength’.
The problem I see in assigning the blame of women’s behavior to men’s lack of control is that, presently, men have no real control nor does men’s concept of justice align with that of women. There’s a manosphere idiom that says women are the gatekeepers of sex while men are the gatekeepers of commitment. I’m not sure I completely agree with that.
That’s not to be defeatist, or an endorsement of a MGTOW course of action, but it is to say that if a man has neither the sex appeal to be a short term sexual prospect nor the provisioning appeal to be a long term investment, women feel entirely justified in acting in the best interests of Hypergamy and controlling his capacity for commitment as well.
And yes, that’s pretty fucked up if you, again, find yourself on the sharp end of it. Men’s adapting to the intersexual conditions set by women isn’t some deterministic prospect, but the idea that the mass majority of men would be responsible for the state women find themselves in is ludicrous. There will always be men willing to accept the sexual dictates of women because it serves their breeding imperatives. It’s good for him personally and it’s good for the species.
There will never be some global Lysistrata where men organize in solidarity, promising not to fuck another woman until they comply with demands that would place the Masculine Imperative above that of the feminine’s. Our own biology guarantees it.
Personal Responsibility
On a final note here, whenever I delve into the ethical implications of Red Pill awareness I invariably run into the personal responsibility equation. I do my best to make as coldly rational an observation of dynamics I see and allow my readers to make their own judgements. However, those observation are never intended to excuse the behaviors men and women find themselves prone to acting out.
There is always a want on the part of either sex to see their concept of justice enacted on those who would act against it. Thus you get honor killing in the Muslim world, and you have men’s access to the DNA testing of children they suspect aren’t their own denied in the “best interest of the child.”
So are men to blame for the conditions they find their women in? Are we our sisters’ keepers, hamstrung by our own culpability to actually help them be better women? Or do they bear the responsibility to conform to our perspective of justice and police the worst impulses of a Hypergamy most are only peripherally aware of?
Wow… a video that shows “what you get” for being “our sisters’ keeper”: cops and law in your life. All that guy was doing was trying to was change their flawed beliefs, and PRESTO! Never mind the blank-out, dial 911! It’s like the 80mph chick… “You do not make sense; I make sense.” Did you guys hear that bit? All a woman needs to do in order to be right/correct/truthful? Assert a statement. That guy, the one in court for “criminally harassing” those “3” women? Boned. All the women need to do is assert: “He harassed me.” Guilty. You give… Read more »
@Jeremy So your mother was very likely not deliberately expending extra energy on attempting to make your entire life miserable. You would be… surprised what lengths abusive parents will go to. As part of her need for complete control, my mother would limit me to two 15 minute phone calls per day. She would enforce this while she was at work. She would call periodically throughout the afternoon, and if she couldn’t get through, she would set an auto dialer that she would use as a timer. This would work her up in to more and more anger (you know,… Read more »
I absolutely believe that the classical liberal values which we based the modern world upon are amazing – but they aren’t “white”. They are just ideas. Ideas that originate from whites, ideas that mostly whites believe in. Pretty much nobody else does. Gosh, how could black folks be doing well and improving their lot for 60 years if they were so defective? Because they were given no choice but to conform to the social and cultural norms of the white majority. They were given the indoctrination and incentives to do so, but it wasn’t a matter of choice. Times have… Read more »
” . . . the “Greg Eliot” who haunts Heatiste’s comms box . . .”
A significant factor in my ceasing to read the comments there.
@Sun
But you said it yourself, she wasn’t reasonable. Yes, she spent energy. She spent it because she had some twisted logic that told her it was the best use of her time to abuse. Same goes for the slave owner, only the most unreasonable and insane human beings spend all that energy abusing another person.
Which is just?
A) A woman who deceives a man into raising her’s and another man’s child
B) A man who impregnates a woman and leaves her to raise the child on her own
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy3dq6_u2-i-still-haven-t-found-what-i-…
@Mike: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2012/03/after_birth_abortion_the_pro_choice_case_for_infanticide_.html
@kfg:
There is a way that seemeth right unto man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. – Proverbs 16:25
@Mike:
The point being that the only real difference between your case A and case B is whether the rube coughs up or not.
@Tom
My point was that the best cure for hypergamy is applied while the tree grows…not after it’s a full sized oak.
@kfg:
Except in case B the child is his own.
Except in case B the rubes are you, kfg, and me, and nothing prohibits some man from volunteering/being conned into A).
Earlier upthread we had a discussion about how we might lower the age of the epiphany phase to a reasonable level (i.e. earlier than riiight before the wall). The long and the short of it was that it seems like we would need to make strong societal disincentives for women delaying marriage, relationships, and so on, likely by convincing men to discount older women as being at all relationship material. Rightly, most people thought this was unlikely to happen. I’m not sure if this is any more tenable, but we could probably accomplish this more thoroughly and organically by removing… Read more »
“Except in case B the child is his own.”
That belief is part of the con.
The point is that justice is not served by, nor does it serve, either the male or female sexual strategy/imperative. On the contrary, it restrains both when society gives it heed. Unfortunately, ours no longer does.
Is it any more just for a man to impregnate a woman and leave her and the child to fend for themselves than for a woman to deceive or coerce a man into raising another man’s child? No. Justice is not a concept that was created to serve the male sexual strategy and it is not anyone’s tool or weapon.
It is, however, equally violated by both sexual strategies (i.e. promiscuous behavior).
I’m also quite and experienced in global capital markets, economics and politics, from a theoretical, academic perspective
An academic. Huh. No wonder you have fleas.
Justice is undefined with regards to sexual imperatives.
Sexual imperatives construct society.
It’s babies all the way down.
scribblerg sounds suspiciously like a troll.
I grew up in Los Angeles and from the time I started my public education from kindergarden to graduating from a big intercity high school I had friends (and enemies) of every racial stripe you could imagine. Black, White, Korean, Chinese, Armenian, Mexican, etc. I smoked weed with these guys and I played in bands with them. I studied in college with them and I created art with them. I was cautious of the gangs, but I got into fights where these guys had my backs. I’ve had training partners and sexual rivals from the same group. My best friend… Read more »
scribbler argues NABPALT so blacks equal whites. Oops.
scribbler argues more diff within white race than between avg. black and avg white. Statistical fallacy. Racial spread. is irrelevant. The avg. white will have fewer diffs to other whites than to blacks. White culture and values are remarkably consistent. Whites have low crime relative to blacks across socioeconomic lines.
Racial bias does not prevent anyone from recognizing and honoring exceptional achievers from other races.
Scribbler has called my ideas crap and myself a woman and cowardly.
I have often thought he sounds like a man driven by anger. I have never once thought he sounds like a troll.
@hollen – Shut the fuck up. You’ve got nothing – I know all those stats and far more. I could debate your ignorant ass into the ground based on the horseshit in your last comment but that isn’t what this site is for. Take your ignorant racist crap somewhere else. There’s really plenty of cesspools where your crap is welcome. Just not here.
@Mike, which sex’s concept of justice is more socially dominant today? Which sex’s concept of justice is legally mandated to the repression of the other? Is it any more just for a man to impregnate a woman and leave her and the child to fend for themselves than for a woman to deceive or coerce a man into raising another man’s child? These aren’t illustrations of justice, they are illustrations of injustice. In either case, the enforced justice still prioritizes the feminine concept. When a man bails on his parental responsibility, there is panoply of social and legal contingencies that… Read more »
For what it’s worth I value the opinions, observations and insight of every commenter on my posts. This extends to the people I agree with as well as those I don’t. My comments are a marketplace of ideas, even if those ideas are inflammatory or misguided. That extends to Hollenhund and Mark Minter. I took a rash of shit for not censoring the comments of Mark Minter back when he had his marriage epiphany and basically contradicted his previously impassioned (long winded) take on the state of the SMP. I allowed him to state his ideas even after the infamous… Read more »
@ kfg
If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck….
Granted, trollishness may be a matter of degree.
@scribblerg
Shut your filthy, cum-laden piehole about Hoellenhund. You got nothing but ignorance and smallmindedness going for you. Your Alinskiite tactics speak volumes about your lack of ethics and character.
“…which sex’s concept of justice supersedes the other…” It’s obvious, too obvious. It’s the farcical version of justice that chases the chimera of fairness, and believes the impossible is reality, and thinks success involves singing and event T-shirts. It’s the evil that accompanies the ends which justify any means no matter the body count. It’s the hugs which makes you feel good about starving, and comforts you in knowing your misery serves a higher purpose that is never yours. It’s the sniveling weakness that convinces the strong to volunteer as sacrifices for the reward of being laughed at and forgotten..… Read more »
@kfg & Rollo: Is it that men and women have different concepts of justice or that human beings tend to distort it based on their own perspectives and both sexes (albeit women more so) have a penchant for rationalization? I.e. The hampster does not give women their own version of justice. It just helps them ignore it. Does it serve only the male sexual strategy to stone fornicators/adulterer to death? I think not…unless it is only enforced against females. Is it unjust for society to expect a man to raise his own children? Only if it forbids him from attempting… Read more »
Rollo: I believe that Mike believes that there is an absolute standard of justice and would therefore actually agree with you that the law is unjust. What I have been trying to get him to think about (not convince him of), is that his phrasing of case B is constructed to lead to his conclusion, not to reality. In reality, the woman in case B is the one with most of the agency and is likely acting just as deceitfully, for her own benefit, as in case A. She is the arbiter of sex. She is the arbiter of impregnation.… Read more »
“Is it that men and women have different concepts of justice . . .”
Yes.
Rollo
Your two comments speaks of a gracious supper alpha.
I’m 1000% sure, women who read those two comments got a big tingle.
When women hear you saying what you just wrote, you as a gracious alpha become the ARBITER of sex and commitment.
@Rollo: “These aren’t illustrations of justice, they are illustrations of injustice. In either case, the enforced justice still prioritizes the feminine concept.” Those were not meant to be illustrations of justice but of the male and female sexual strategies. Clearly, neither are just. “Read these and tell me which sex’s concept of justice supersedes the other.” Obviously, our society is now dominated by the FI. Those are not examples of the FI version of justice being enforced. They are examples of our society serving the FI’s unjust idealogy rather than justice. There is only one version of justice. It is… Read more »
@kfg: “I believe that Mike believes that there is an absolute standard of justice and would therefore actually agree with you that the law is unjust.” That is corrrect. “In reality, the woman in case B is the one with most of the agency and is likely acting just as deceitfully, for her own benefit, as in case A. She is the arbiter of sex. She is the arbiter of impregnation. She is the arbiter of carrying to term and she is even the arbiter of raising the child after birth, to the point that the collective “she” is now… Read more »
@Mike Is it that men and women have different concepts of justice or that human beings tend to distort it based on their own perspectives and both sexes (albeit women more so) have a penchant for rationalization? Neither really. Men and women by their own biological composition cannot achieve true impartiality when judging the actions of the opposite sex. Justice requires impartiality. I cannot expect any female to understand what living with the constant male sex drive is like. I also believe that I haven’t the foggiest idea what the roller-coaster changes in motivation day-to-day from a monthly menstrual cycle… Read more »
“…throughout human history the woman in case B would be the clear loser…the one treated unjustly.”
You gotta be fucking kidding me.
Only, and ONLY if there was a conception by forcible rape would the woman have been treated unjustly. Children are a known possible outcome of sex, and unless raped she chose to accept the risk. Suffering consequences of risky decisions is essence if justice.
All I am saying here is that women know right from wrong just like we do but they are much better at (and suceptible to) deception in general…especially self deception (hampster). This is why society falls apart when women are totally unrestrained and allowed to pursue their selfish, carnal desires, which are always self-justified by some nonsensical ideology designed to make them feel good about doing evil. However, they are perfectly capable of understanding what is truly fair and equitable when pressed. They don’t have their own version of justice and neither do we.
In an odd twist I happened to read this article today: http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/07/what-open-marriage-taught-one-man-about-feminism.html Read that and then compare it to the justice men found compensatory in stoning to death a woman caught in the act of adultery. It’s interesting because in contemporary society we view stoning an adulterous woman as barbaric and an illustration of men’s vented anger. However, the presumption is one based on how we believe men felt about the act of betrayal and adultery on the part of a woman, rather than the evolutionary and social practicality of stoning her. From an evolutionary perspective, men’s capacity to determine… Read more »
Man’s achievement is not for one race, it is for all men.
10000 years ago in the cradle of civilization in mess O potamia where the first human learned how to farm, it’s when man invented language and law.
We’re they white?
Were the Greeks white?
All man’s achievements is for all races.
Ps
Racist views are a big tingle killer ,it shows your insecurity and lack of confidence.
“However, they are perfectly capable of understanding what is truly fair and equitable when pressed.”
I have my doubts about that. I am however certain the can be forced into a conversational stipulation that sounds exactly like understanding what is truly fair and equitable. Whether they believe those statements are the truth, or whether they believe saying as much ends that debate at that time is another thing altogether.
@Jeremy: “Men and women by their own biological composition cannot achieve true impartiality when judging the actions of the opposite sex. Justice requires impartiality.” Agreed. “The best we can do is establish rules that are most effective for the propagation of the species, and call violations of those rules “immoral,” which is what we did.” I disagree. When humans establish rules they are not designed to be most effective for the propagation of the species but only for the individuals establishing the rules. Therefore, if justice requires impartiality, which humans are incapable of, then there can be no justice without… Read more »
I read the comments on the “alphas” not being relationship material but good for one night stands. Given that women are doing this, how many men stand to have the upper hand in any relationship? Women are natural dualists; men much less so. Men have to use energy to establish themselves as someone worthy of sex in the first place. Women do not. So the man is expending energy to be worthy of sex, and the man is expending more energy to get a handle on dualism, while the woman has to do no prep work for the relationship whatsoever.… Read more »
“This is justice???”
Consider Rollo’s comment above as my response.
@Badpainter: “I have my doubts about that. I am however certain the can be forced into a conversational stipulation that sounds exactly like understanding what is truly fair and equitable. Whether they believe those statements are the truth, or whether they believe saying as much ends that debate at that time is another thing altogether.” For that matter maybe they aren’t even conscious at all but are just pretending to be…damn fembots. Seriously though, one does not have to like or agree with a concept in order to understand it and see its validity and it’s not hard to tell… Read more »
“I was referring to the biologically inherent male and female sexual strategies independant of the specific cultural and legal environments in which they are expressed.”
So was I.
” And if God does not exist then there is no such thing as justice . . .”
And if God does exist you appear to be confusing justice with righteousness.
Mike, Have you ever talked to a woman? “Women can do that so we have to assume they understand.” Two things: 1. the old thing about assuming…I don’t like being an ass. 2. Understand what? Understand the issue at debate, or understand the tactics to make it end? Which one? Or Both? 3. I lied it’s four things 4. The understanding you see is usually correlated with good feelz at the moment. Which is why the same understanding doesn’t appear if the conversation generates bad feelz. All the understanding demonstrates is you’ve successfully, at that moment, created the emotional state… Read more »
@Rollo: As I pointed out a few posts back, stoning and other means of enforcing sexual/marital fidelity do not exclusively serve men’s imperatives except when they are only enforced against women. After all, it doesn’t help the alpha’s strategy much if he gets stoned to death for spinning plates. “Even Joseph was going to quietly divorce Mary when she became immaculately pregnant – it was in his right to have her killed. Why? Why was adultery a death sentence?” Yes, adultery was a death sentence. If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they… Read more »
@Mike, I’m not questioning the logistics of stoning an adulterer, I’m asking why it would be a death sentence in the first place.
Then compare and contrast that reasoning to the man’s story about his ‘open marriage’.
Hey rollo, this is not about the topic you wrote but maybe you can use in a future post: How I Make $200,000 a Year Demanding Money from Men Online http://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/i-make-200k-a-year-demanding-money-from-men-online Some excerpts: “Some guys claim to be taking out cash advances to pay me. Whether it’s true or not, they need the rush of giving up something valuable — and I don’t feel at all guilty about taking their money. Then I get people sending me $20 in tribute. My response: “20 dollars? I wipe my ass with $20 bills.” Seriously, what am I supposed to do with 20… Read more »
This is as far as I made it Rollo: As I write this, my children are asleep in their room, Loretta Lynn is on the stereo, and my wife is out on a date with a man named Paulo. It’s her second date this week; her fourth this month so far. If it goes like the others, she’ll come home in the middle of the night, crawl into bed beside me, and tell me all about how she and Paulo had sex. I won’t explode with anger or seethe with resentment. I’ll tell her it’s a hot story and I’m… Read more »
@Jeremy, it’s more entertaining if you imagine the writer as the husband from Inside Out.
Racist views are a big tingle killer ,it shows your insecurity and lack of confidence.
Heh, I’ll insecure your @$$ with my riot gun, buddy. 😉 (Being dangerous produces tingles.) Nothing necessarily insecure about being racially biased. People can be racially biased because of observation.
Crossovers go one way. Blacks moving up cut off their ties to the ghetto.
@Mike I disagree. When humans establish rules they are not designed to be most effective for the propagation of the species but only for the individuals establishing the rules. I like to refer to my rule #1, never underestimate human stupidity. Humans establish rules through ignorance. As such, calling human rules “designed” is giving us waaaay too much credit. There’s no design process for human society save the historically validated and never-ending creation, destruction, and rebirth. And if God does not exist then there is no such thing as justice and one can only admit that society, civilization…everything is essentially… Read more »
Can’t let a bully go unchallenged on your own blog. Bad for business.
Rollo ” I’m asking why it would be a death sentence in the first place.” It is the all mighty DOLLAR. Man marry woman, the deal is : he spends 50% of his money on her and the other 50% on the kids ,so if she fucked someone else men stoned her 8000 years ago but not anymore because it is a savage way of punishment. If a rich Woman marry a poor man and she spends 50% of her money on him and the other 50% on the kids and the Man cheats on his rich wife, ,, BRING… Read more »
@Rollo Simple. Ancient Israel was a patriarchy, so the interests of men took precedence. Additionally, long-term relationships and providing for offspring were favored in order to provide societal stability. And being able to be confident of paternity is very important to the masculine imperative, if you’re pursuing a strategy where you provision for your offspring. So trying to subvert the system, via adultery/potential cuckoldry, was punishable by death since it went against the instincts, interests, and honor of those dominant within the system. Currently we have a system where female interests take precedence. Female interests align with constantly searching for… Read more »
Sorry about my sterile, clinical language above. My brain was undergoing disinfection in the intensive care ward due to contact with that article.
Just thought I’d drop this article link here, as it’s apropos to this RM essay:
http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/07/what-open-marriage-taught-one-man-about-feminism.html?cx_navSource=top-stories-cx&cx_tag=pop
This writer’s cuckoldry is breathtaking, and the fact that he views his willing participation in his own emasculation as a “strength” is literally jaw dropping. Amazing how screwed up that rationalization is, and how he trots out those old FI tropes on cue (vulnerability = strength, submissive = masculine).
Another one bites the dust.
I backtracked on the comments here, and saw that Rollo already posted the same link to the same article I referenced, and had a far more trenchant and in-depth analysis than mine.
You work fast, sir!
@Rollo: Whether adultery should be considered a capital offense or not, please explain why sexual monogamy, enforced or not, benefits the male imperative only. Biologically, it would seem that the costs and benefits of the arrangement are about equal for both parties. As for that story, as disturbing as it is, I honestly don’t see how their “open marriage” serves her sexual strategy more than his. In fact, I would say it serves his more. He is financially dependent on HER. She pays his bills while he is free to spin plates. He has nothing to lose if she leaves… Read more »
Heads up on a Rollo tweet from 2 hours ago. Thanks Rollo, I’m very thankful you posted a link to Illimitable Men’s Fifty Shades of Red, 50 Maxims. It dovetails very nicely with this current essay and comments thread. http://illimitablemen.com/2015/07/17/fifty-shades-of-red/ IM MAXIM #14: “Conventional loyalty implies honour. Honour is a male abstraction. Female loyalty is entirely predicated on the perception that you are powerful, we will call this hypergamous loyalty. Man can be loyal in the female sense (hypergamously) or he can be loyal in the truest sense of the word – sacrificially. In matters of men, women are capable… Read more »
Another from the same link:
IM MAXIM #33: “Feminism didn’t make women something that they weren’t, patriarchy and religion did. Man’s governance made women better, not just for the sake of men, but likewise for themselves. Feminism is female self-governance. Such self-governance has revealed the nature of women to lack a non-superficial civility. By removing the societal shaming mechanisms that nurture women to be noble, feminism has exposed the feral nature of women. Everything that is negative about the female disposition is thus doubly so under the fist of feminism.”
@Jeremy: Obviously, the law of the jungle is not just. The ability to see that is what sets man apart from the beast. And imperfect justice is not justice.
@Forge the Sky: “Simple. Ancient Israel was a patriarchy, so the interests of men took precedence. Additionally, long-term relationships and providing for offspring were favored in order to provide societal stability. And being able to be confident of paternity is very important to the masculine imperative, if you’re pursuing a strategy where you provision for your offspring.” I’m not so sure provisioning is really integral or even a part of the male sexual strategy. The two strategies are basically as follows: Male: Mate with as many females as possible while expending minimal or no effort on resource provisioning. Female: Mate… Read more »
And it is not negotiated desire either. Both sexes are simply attempting to trade quantity (multiple sexual partners with lower offspring survival rate) for quality (one sexual partner with higher offspring survival rate). It marked the rise of human civilization because it is a better deal for individuals and a more successful means of reproducing for the species.
@Mike I think you’re riffing on a real dynamic here, as well as pointing out – as many here have – how a monogamous society tends to be more stable and prosperous. What I think you fail to see is that the male sexual strategy, as you outline it, isn’t really a possibility for the majority of men either in or out of their sexual prime, whereas the sexual strategy of women is attainable for the great majority of women during their (admittedly brief) sexual prime. Because of this, an enforced monogamy creates reproductive opportunities for the average man in… Read more »
It’s easy to see why monogamy made the most sense. First, the women were more or less treated as property anyway, basically sold from the fathers to the husbands. If you have wide open competition to mate, the betas will just gang up to kill the poon alphas anyway, then the new poon alpha will be killed, etc. Meanwhile, while all of this is going on, the Philistines are building an army ready to take over Israel where half the men are dead over poon. So poon was heavily regulated. Now a lot of societies probably gave veto power to… Read more »
@Forge the Sky: “What I think you fail to see is that the male sexual strategy, as you outline it, isn’t really a possibility for the majority of men either in or out of their sexual prime, whereas the sexual strategy of women is attainable for the great majority of women during their (admittedly brief) sexual prime.” I think the FI first became malignant in the West during the “enlightenment period” of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries when technology and the industrial revolution began to erode the value and necessity of raw masculinity. Men have been conditioned by the FI… Read more »
I’d love a follow up on (nany/ feminist /pimp)Michael Sonmore when he’s dumped -with the children -and kicked out of her house.
The day will come when she meets the dominant tingle guy who moves in with her .
I can’t wait till I see Sonmore as a comentor on this blog.
I’ve thought about the end game for a while, having been Purple>Maroon>Full Red Pill since about 1995, progressively moving forward. I’ve traveled a few places in the world, all of the US, and have known just about every culture and people that a large US metro area can permit, from language, to food, to religion, to dating, to marriage. I’ve concluded the following: 1. Almost all of Christianity will be feminized (ala Episcopal church) and become full-on witchery basically, lesbian marriages, all women in charge, etc. The exception being beta-stations like large “emergent” “seeker friendly” churches. Regardless, the: 2. Marriage… Read more »
Adultery is called cheating because marriage is a contract, a deal…and used to be a good one for the vast majority of people, at least in its unperverted form with the husband in the dominant/masculine role and the wife in the submissive/feminine role. True justice simply enforced the provisions of the contract. You break the contract/cheat, you suffer the consequences. What we have today with feminism, the FI, open hypergamy, etc. is not women rejecting the institution of marriage as a construct of the male sexual strategy but women trying to get more out of the deal for themselves at… Read more »
@enrique432 Muslims with money behave exactly like Christians with money. They become moderate and allow women more freedom. As soon as there’s a large Muslim middle class, all that Sharia law will go out the window. It’ll never take hold in the US due to the fact that we actually have a middle class already in place. All this prognostication in the ‘sphere of Islam bringing back the old school values Christianity couldn’t keep in place seems to miss the point: religion only has power over poor masses. As soon as a people starts making money as a group, religion… Read more »
@enrique432: That is a pretty bleak vision. I hadn’t thought of it before but I see how the FI could be fueling the growth of Islam. It doesn’t help fundamentalist Christianity because all of the feminized, federally compliant, 501c3 churches serve as a straw man for the actual teachings of Christ. Also, while the Bible clearly teaches that the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the Church, the injunction to forgive as we were forgiven does not generally appeal to the disenfranchised and enraged seeking retribution against their enemies.
@Sun Wukong:
He that trusteth in his riches shall fall: but the righteous shall flourish as a branch.- Proverbs 11:28
Sun king of sluts
You are correct.
Muslim women are becoming worse than western women, why do you think Muslim men are blowing themselves up? They gave up on worldly Muslim women ,they are not virgin any more and even if they are virgin, their pussies are stitched by “secret” clinics.
Muslim men chose the 75 virgin up there.
@Mike,
Men’s attractiveness to women is zero sum, as is everything for women. Women are always going to want “Brad Pitt.” They are always going to want who they perceive as the top guys and disregard the rest. Pumping iron or men developing “game” will not be appreciated by women. They are hardwired to compete over what they perceive to be a fixed pie.
Hey Mike, “….does not generally appeal to the disenfranchised and enraged seeking retribution against their enemies.” You mean the dumb-asses that don’t like free will. Problem is Christ tried to give man free will. The Church realizes that parishioners can’t handle free will. So they did a bait and switch. “Nothing has ever been more insufferable for man than freedom!” Here’s a good read for you. Ever hear of THE BROTHERS KARAMAZOV, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Book V: Pro and Contra, Chapter 5: The Grand Inquisitor? : http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/brothersk/section7.rhtml This is an excerpt from a fictional short story that one of the characters… Read more »
@Mike
He that trusteth in his riches shall fall: but the righteous shall flourish as a branch.- Proverbs 11:28
He who uses the Bible as proof of his position is wrong. Deal with it. – Sun Wukong 2015-07-18
And really, how are the righteous doing in the US right now? Oh wait, that’s right, feminism is eating the church alive. “Christian morals” are on the decline, falling like a rock. The fastest growing religious affiliation in the US (a “Christian nation”) is “None”. The places Islam is growing are all poor third world shit holes. You’ll pardon me if I my being rational extends in to realizing that the Bible is fucking wrong. The righteous man gets jackshit. So sayeth Hypergamy. The righteous are a dying breed. Swallow that bitter red pill if you can avoid choking on… Read more »
Sun Wukong,
A million obituaries have been written for every religion. There have been a thousand decadent periods. Really nothing new is going on morally that hasn’t happened before.
@Striver
And every religion save for the few that are finishing up dying right now are dead. We’re all atheists, I just believe in one less religion than some of you.
Blue pill thinking indeed runs very deep. Here’s a recent example: Human beings today are much more sexually attractive than they used to be, thanks to much improved standards of health, hygiene, and grooming; but this seems not to have led to any actual increase in coitus. A hundred years ago there was no Brazilian waxing, most people got enough hot water to bathe in only once a week or less, skin diseases were rampant, and there was no proper detergent to get clothes clean: yet not the fitchew nor the soiléd horse went to’t with a more riotous appetite… Read more »
“Hypergamy” is merely one aspect of Social Darwinism. It is a cruel fact of your life. Unfortunately for you, your birth occurred after a period of relative abundance, racially, economically, socially, and sexually. “Hypergamy” is the sexual politics and competition that is merely one level of Social Darwinism, which exists within the outer level of Darwinism. And Darwinism is a rough and ready competition, tooth and claw, from the molecular, into the corpus, manifested in the social, and extant in the cultural and the geopolitical. From the NeoRx writer Outsideness: “Social Darwinism’ is merely Darwinism, and more exactly consistent Darwinism.… Read more »
@Mark Minter
Hey, how did you get here? Tell us about yourself.
@Rollo – I was banned from RoK too. They posted the most idiotic article ever posted there (which is saying something, with how stupid half their articles are). I posted a blistering, but not over the top comment criticizing the article. At first, my comment was the top rated one there with the most likes and then…banned by Roosh for life. No big loss. Weird, sensitive little wuss he is.
Sun, check out Sharia Law in Dearborn, MI.
http://nationalreport.net/city-michigan-first-fully-implement-sharia-law/
@Sun Wukong Not true at all. Upper class Muslims wives’ have more freedom to purchase things, and larger agency over assets, but as far as cheating, or their daughters dating, not even close to what you say. ESPECIALLY in upper-class (Iranian often, as well as Jordanian) Hijab-wearing families. Those girls DO NOT DATE, only to marry if anything, and do not have sex. The 1 percenters you are referring to with hymen restoration and all that, are the same as their Christian antecedents, but they are still only the 1 percenters. Muslim women wearing Hijab, which is growing btw, act… Read more »
There’s always going to be Betas waiting to pick up the pieces after a girl’s gotten off the cock carousel. There’s always going to be an Alpha cock carousel for just about every girl to ride on. It’s just the way it is. Women pretty much are the gatekeepers of both sex and commitment. I’m a good looking guy, and have been told so multiple times, sometimes by pretty hot girls. But my shy/nervous personality, as well as my belief in the “old set of books,” did me in when I was younger. There was a girl in my school… Read more »
@Adsgamer – Ah, so now we know that you are a racist cunt too. Funniest? Calling me an Alinskyite – a Marxist rabblerouser, lol. I mean, do you see how silly you are? I have railed intensively against Marxism here to the point of tediousness. Also, I’m not an academic, I’ve just studied these things formally and also get my information from actual academics, scientists and other truthseekers. So first things first, pull your head out of your ass and catch up with reality. As for your “statistical fallacies”, all you do is reveal your viciousness. Of course averages are… Read more »
Tell me, you great Christian philosophers, am I this woman’s keeper too? Lol. Check this report out on Alexis Frulling’s public threesome at the Calgary Stampede and how propaganda outlets like Vice and the radfems are calling the public’s shaming of her an example of patriarchy. Too rich. [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brlyJdsjDbk&w=560&h=315%5D My take is that this entire thread emanates from the ridiculous ideas Christians have about the world. Women have moral agency – they are sentient beings. But just as cunts like HollenCracker and AdsSpergyGamerManchild have fucked up moral compasses, women can do so too. The truth is much simpler, but… Read more »
@Hollenhund re: “Human beings today are much more sexually attractive than they used to be, thanks to much improved standards of health, hygiene, and grooming; but this seems not to have led to any actual increase in coitus.
I think derbyshire doesn’t understand what sorts of things actually lead to ‘coitus.’ How you can connect and vibe with someone, resonate with their eyes and voice and movements, and fall into an ecstatic trance where all that’s left of their presence is a shining halo effect that fills your senses.
‘Depilated?’ Lol. That shit’s important for pornography.
@Softek – It is better to be lucky than good. It’s better to be the top man, the natural, than to have Red Pill knowledge. Down below in the trenches, yes it’s true. Whoever said men are the gatekeepers of violence had it right. That’s what will matter. The average man has no place in one world at peace. That is only for the top men and women. The average man needs to ally with some men, but against others, in order to do better. So either the average man will continue to do poorly, or we’ll see an upturn… Read more »
@Sun Wukong –
It’s all about that which survives. If a violent, God believing sect outbreeds and outkills the atheists, then they win. Humans are flesh and blood beings, and if belief in certain ideas is essential to the building and survival of societies, those ideas will continue to exist.
@Forge – This!! “Because of this, an enforced monogamy creates reproductive opportunities for the average man in a way that a hypergamous-driven system does not. That’s what we mean when we say monogamy benefits men’s sexual strategy more than than it does women’s.” This is why I call the Manosphere “The Beta’s Lament”. You see, formerly Betas could use provisioning and protection to make women settle down and fuck them without women having any real attraction to them. I wonder, how would men enjoy a social order in which they were required to commit to monogamy with women they aren’t… Read more »
Both my dad and me have been incredibly disappointed in my sister, who dumped the ‘unromantic/unexciting’ good guy — who I was great friends with — who was making 100k right after college. He’s extremely smart and spends whatever free time he has doing things like hiking, biking and camping. I’ve gone on a number of hikes with him. We had a lot of fun. He’s a great guy. Very hard worker in just about every sense of the word. But he’s very quiet and very reserved and was also very in love with my sister. She left him for… Read more »
@SunWuKong – The Maker of Sluts – Isn’t it funny to watch a Christian like Striver flip from asserting his moral superiority to “might makes right” in his last comment? The only unanswered question that “religion” clings on to desperately these days is the first cause, the first mover. Christianity – along with Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhims and Islam have all been shown to be wrong in everything they say is true about the natural world. We are down to how the Big Bang started, yet you guys think that the rest of us don’t notice how Christianity keeps moving the… Read more »
@SJF – Your question to Minter is priceless. I’ve chosen not to pester him anymore as beating up the weakest kid in class does lose it’s allure after a while. But please, do remind the newcomers here of what a legendary cunt he is.
@Mike “I think the FI first became malignant in the West during the “enlightenment period” of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries when technology and the industrial revolution began to erode the value and necessity of raw masculinity. Men have been conditioned by the FI for so long that the beta population has increased to the point where that is undeniably true. The fast majority of men have actually been trained from birth to behave in a manor that makes them unattractive to women. This training is so thorough that it is able to override biology (to a certain extent) suppressing… Read more »
@Softek – So, have you signed up for a PUA course yet? How many approaches have you made this week? It’s fun to hear about your sister but really, bitching about how she doesn’t want to settle down with the nice guy reveals more about you than her. She’s obviously a high value woman who has options and doesn’t want to settle down with a guy who doesn’t get her wet. No matter how many blows to the shins he can take. It’s sad to watch a Beta so enraged that he’s more invested in his sister’s sexuality than his… Read more »
@ Striver @ scribblerg I know a guy who was exactly like that — uber alpha — but still succumbed to marriage and eventually divorce. He almost killed himself over it. That’s ancient history now and he’s doing fine these days, but here’s the point: Naturals don’t have the awareness. If you’re not RP aware, you’re not prepared. Even natural alphas can fall victim to unexpected emotions. You’re best prepared for trouble when you see it coming from afar. You’d think a guy that’s slept with literally hundreds of women and also provided for himself and was independent would be… Read more »
@Forge – You are on fire this morning. This, again. ” I’m illustrating that girls will strongly desire sex with men they perceive to be the ‘top’ men, regardless of their attractiveness relative to other groups in temporality or geography.” Betas could take a hint here and be more selective about the ecology they choose to participate in. I’ve always thought that a bar is the absolute worst place to pick up women for guys of lower SMV. While I have done so, at 5’8″ i’m just ruled out by some women no matter how nice my suit is or… Read more »
@scribblerg
July 18th, 2015 at 10:33 am
I don’t think he is a legendary **** at all. I don’t care about what he did. I care that he wrote passionately and halfway decent ideas in the past.
Sure I’m baiting with my question, but Geez, if one of my guy acquaintances in a circle of friends just disappeared for a year. Then came waltzing in with a comment late at a party. Don’t you think he needs a slight bit of shit testing?