Adaptations – Part II

Studio 54

When I first published the comparative SMV graph a few years ago one of the first criticisms was that the age comparisons between men and women seemed too concrete and too specific to contemporary times. I tried to make concessions for this then, but when I was writing that post it was at first meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. Still, I try to write with the presupposition that critics will take things either too literally or too figuratively. I knew that the literati then and now would think, “…well, yes it’s a good outline, but you’re looking at the SMV from the perspective of 2012 and society was much different 50, 70, 100, 2,000 years ago so this graph is flawed…”

My SMV graph was never meant to be some canonical tablet handed to me from the almighty. I thought of it then, and still think of it now, as a very good workable outline for how men and women’s comparative SMV relates to the other. This has been borne out in many other statistics from individual studies sent to me by readers or just my coming across them since I created that graph.

That said, and in relation to where I’m going with this Adaptations series, those critics aren’t wrong to suggest that this outline would be subject to the social environments and simple physical realities of earlier times, and likely some times yet to come.

Take what I’m about to delve into here with a bit of salt; I’m not a historian. One of my favorite figures from the civil war ear was Colonel Robert Gould Shaw. If you’ve seen the movie Glory you know who I’m referencing here. This young man was 23 when he enlisted and 25 when he was promoted to Major and then Colonel. In that time Shaw saw some pretty grisly shit, including the battle of Antietam.

I’d seen the movie when it first came out in 1989, but after watching it again for a class assignment I had a new appreciation for the real man who was Robert Shaw. I saw the film using what was just becoming my Red Pill lens. It struck me that the realities of that era forced men to become Men much sooner than men do today. The realities of our times give us a leisure the men of Shaw’s age simple couldn’t imagine. The realities of that time necessitated a quick maturation to bear the burden of heavy responsibilities. Those burdens were much more imperative then, but a 23 year old is still a 23 year old.

I thought about how I’d spent my own years between the ages of 23-25 when I was at the peak of my semi-rock star tail chasing in the late 80’s Hollywood scene. I began to really think about the differences in the social and physical environments of the 1860s and the 1980s-90s. I’ve always joked that men don’t become Men until they’re 30. Even on the SMV graph the point at which I attribute men’s real ascendency to their peak SMV at around age 30, but this wasn’t always the case in the past.

Men (comparatively) live longer lives as a result of health and medical advances, but (at least in westernizing culture) it takes much more time and personal investment, as well as acculturation for men to realize their personal potential. Men’s burden of performance wasn’t much different in prior eras, but the timeframe necessary to reach a man’s peak potential was much more accelerated.

So to address the concerns of the temporal critics of the SMV graph, yes, this graph might look a bit different to the men and women of the 19th century. Considering lifespans of the era and the social conditions then, the ages during which a woman would reach her own peak might be around 17, and a man’s may be 25, however the same curves of the bell wouldn’t change drastically. Men adapted to the conditions their environment dictated to them then in much the same way they did before and after the sexual revolution. And this adaptation came as the result of what was expected of them as their burden of performance, as well as what their social leisures would permit them.

Love American Style

Into the 70’s the new social contract of the Free Love generation began to take a new shape. Bear in mind that this new equalitarian contract was based on the hopeful presumption that both sexes would mutually honor the “what’s on the inside is what counts” normalization of attraction. Under this contract women’s Hypergamous natures could flourish, while men’s unlimited access sexual strategy could ostensibly be realized.

Of course these lofty, higher-consciousness, presumptions  were meant to supersede human nature and an evolved sexual arousal function based on human biology. One thing that still thwarts ideological feminism today is that its perceived goal states contradict human beings’ natural states. This contradiction gets narratively blamed on men not wanting to cooperate with feminism, but even the most ardent feminist is still guilty of her own biology and arousal triggers contradicting herself.

Biology trumps conviction. People get fidgety when I apply this in a religious context, but it’s equally applicable to feminism and really any ideology that under-appreciates human nature and the realities of its conditions.

As the new sexual landscape began to solidify, men began to adapt their own sexual strategies to the conditions of this fast and loose environment. Just prior to the Disco Generation hardcore pornography began its path to the ubiquitous porn we know today. The sexual restraint necessitated by the realities of prior generations loosened in light of widespread hormonal birth control and safe(er) legal abortion.

While Hypergamy was effectively unleashed, the women of this era hadn’t fully grasped the scope of it being so or what it would become. Acceptable premarital sex, abortion and unilaterally feminine controlled birth control meant that women had an unprecedented degree of control over their Hypergamous decision making. I doubt many women of the time understood this, but the only real control men had (and still have now) over women’s breeding and birthing outcomes was now grounded in the psychological (Game) or the physical (arousal). Provisioning was still a consideration for women, but the division between short-term and long-term pairing became more stark.

As I mentioned here in the beginning, a slowing of the maturation process was the inevitable result of women’s freedom of Hypergamous choice. Short-term Alpha Fucks no longer posed the same societal and personal risks of a pre-birth control generation, thus long-term pairing choices (Beta bucks) began to be delayed. The ideological cover story was one of women expecting men to “love their insides” despite their age, psychological baggage or physical condition.

Women’s preoccupation with The Wall was ostensibly mitigated by the Free Love social contract that men would honor their end of the higher-consciousness equalitarian dream of a mutually agreed attraction based on intrinsic qualities. The biological realities for both sexes was much different.

Women trusted they could be sexually ‘free’ without social stigmatization, but the reality was that the long-term needs of Hypergamy could be postponed in what would eventually become a Sandbergian sexual strategy. The more Alpha men of the time – ones in touch with the visceral nature of women and themselves – understood the incredibly boon this represented to them.

It’s important to bear in mind that Hypergamy was not the openly embraced dynamic it’s come into today. Thus, the unspoken, secretive nature of Hypergamy was something a man who ‘just got it’ instinctively understood and women were aroused by it.

Machismo

During the 70s ‘Macho’ men began to adapt to a new paradigm. They adapted to the reality that women were conflicted by the Free Love paradigm. These men embraced both the sexual openness expected of women, but they also understood that in spite of the social contract of love being based on intrinsic qualities, women still wanted to fuck (with abandon) the men with extrinsic arousal triggering qualities. The physical began to take priority above the emotional pretentiousness.

The macho quality could take different forms. Whether is was the good ole boy of the south or the Tony Manero at Studio 54, understanding the mindset is what’s important here.

Macho men in the discos and key parties of the 70s figured out they could ‘Game’ the old paradigm of non-exclusivity paired with birth control by re-embracing (with disco era gusto) a masculinity that had been abandoned just a decade earlier. Unlimited access to unlimited sexuality was for men who overtly challenged the Free Love preconditions. They enjoyed the rewards of its expectations of women while rebounding off the self-expectations of the Beta men who were still cooperating with the Free Love social contract.

This era is an interesting parallel to our own. I think much of the Red Pill resentment coming from men still plugged into a Blue Pill mindset is rooted in a similar perception that they’re playing by an acceptable set of rules that “men with Game” are exploiting for their own selfish ends. What they don’t realize is that their Blue Pill interpretations are a designed part of a social paradigm that supports feminine primacy. Game works because, like the macho men of the 70s, it’s primarily based on women’s inborn psychology and the visceral realities of women’s biological impulses.

Beta men in the 70s still believed that the Free Love mindset was equally and mutually beneficial for both sexes since it was supposedly based on a freedom from performance for themselves while freeing women from sexual repression and (covertly) from the reality of the Wall. In reality the Free Love paradigm put men at a disadvantage by giving women almost total control of Hypergamy and the time in which to realize short term mating and long term provisioning.

So these men’s resentment of the Alphas of the era is understandable when you consider that their visceral attractiveness was observably and behaviorally arousing to women who were supposed to idealistically love them for who they were not what they were. These men represented a return to that burden of performance they’d hoped to avoid in the Free Love contract.

These Alpha men understood women’s base impulses then, and that understanding became an integral part of their “just getting it” attraction. However, as we’ll see in the next part of this series, these men would eventually become the butt of their own joke as the Feminine Imperative fluidly transitioned into a new social paradigm of Fem-powerment developing in the 80s and reaching its apex in the 90s.

The arousing ‘macho’ men, the Alphas of the era, would systematically become the most ridiculed parodies and caricatures of masculinity as women came into a better understanding of the power they were only beginning to realize and the Beta men took their perceived revenge. And likewise men adapted to this new paradigm based on the same visceral reality women’s sexuality is fundamentally based on.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Rollo Tomassi June 23rd, 2015 at 1:21 pm Well I’m an engineer. I take on responsibility. It is my nature. So am I Blue Pill for starting a family? Even if I have lived Red Pill? Well it depends. Am I “acting” Blue Pill because that is all I know? Well that is one thing. Am I acting Blue Pill because that is what circumstances dictate? That is another. Is it Blue Pill to pull the ripcord at 500ft? Is it Red Pill to crash into the ground? What do the circumstances dictate? Is it Blue Pill to follow the… Read more »

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@Striver
“Novaseeker put forth that the average, beta man cannot succeed without societal support or subsidy.”
Spot on
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TkDlFKYSU0s

“Whoever does the mating dance the best.” Awareness

@M Simon
“Blue Pill uninformed by Red Pill. And Red Pill disdaining family behavior. It will not end well.”
One thing is learned is that being a child in a blue pill state is far worse than a red pill state because your mindset itself defeating.

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Striver
June 23rd, 2015 at 2:48 pm

And the rest. I’m going to have to read and think about it. I have some things to do. I’ll be back later. Glad to have been able to open some lines of thought.

It is quite enjoyable to be able to hang with you all.

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I am not MGTOW, though some years ago I could have played one on TV. In my lone-wolf youth, no one cared what I did, but instead of it getting me down I learned to like that. Gave me a lot of freedom. And resistant to howls from anyone how it is my duty to “save society” by obeying them, because reasons. To my mind, man-up people like Forney are no different than the man-up-and-do-what-FI-says preacher class Dalrock calls out constantly. I always bristle when I hear “society needs you.” It didn’t need me then, it doesn’t need shit now.… Read more »

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@ Rollo Another fantastic and elucidating article! A perfect illustration as to no matter what the social mores are or the lack thereof female hypergamy is a factor that any willing player should be aware of. You truly are a light amongst the darkness. @Sribblerg “The more I think about this, the more it seems to me that a big part of the what’s pissing off men is that the Beta strategy is less effective than ever.” Aint’ that the truth brother! I did okay with women in the mid to late 80’s and early 90’s. Young professional, partied with… Read more »

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Blue Pill uninformed by Red Pill. And Red Pill disdaining family behavior.

Red Pill doesn’t disdain family behavior. Mainstream society does.

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Hoellenhund: While projecting a facade of demanding it. There must be grist for the mill if it is to keep grinding.

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@Thelion

Eh, whatev dude. I’m not gonna denigrate anything just cause it’s a drawing. It obviously runs a wide diversity. But I think it can serve as a buffer in certain cases. That’s the association I was drawing between cartoon porn and pedophilia (which I think can also be a buffer), not saying all drawn porn is pedo or anything.

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MGTOW:

A man’s understanding that nothing is free, and that includes his participation.

The lifestyle resulting from a very clear ability to distinguish between one’s wants and needs, and the wants and need of others.

The understanding that the wants and needs of either one individual or society do not constitute an uncompensated obligation of any kind on the part of anyone else.

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Hollenhund, KFG “Red Pill doesn’t disdain family behavior. Mainstream society does.” “Hoellenhund: While projecting a facade of demanding it. There must be grist for the mill if it is to keep grinding.” Occasional exceptions aside, the family is functionally dead in the modern west. Family takes at least some devotion to a collectivist mindset – an ‘us’ whose interests are greater than the ‘I.’ Family now is usually a way for an individual to leverage an old institution, and certain biological realities, for their own emotional or practical gain, or for status. Any truly collectivist virtue is abominated. If in… Read more »

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Alan Watts on MGTOW:

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@hoellenhund2 “Red Pill doesn’t disdain family behavior. Mainstream society does.” Yeah that’s the part I never have sink in. @Badpainter “The understanding that the wants and needs of either one individual or society do not constitute an uncompensated obligation of any kind on the part of anyone else.” I am going to think about this carefully on my way to practice. @Forge the sky “Any truly collectivist virtue is abominated. If in any book or movie a person is told they must do something inconvenient to their interests ‘for the sake of the family,’ you can be certain the story… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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While projecting a facade of demanding it. There must be grist for the mill if it is to keep grinding.

On one hand, fathers are declared to be completely optional – their status and role is completely dependent on the mother’s whim. On the other hand, they are thrown a bone by occiasionally getting declared to have an important role in family life. It’s pretty much an inside joke by mainstream society.

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Opus:- The magic words post-war would be uttered sotto-voce by one’s barber at the conclusion of the business of blades. “Something for the week-end, sir?”. My sources (oral history lol) tell me that it was a wartime thing that stayed in vogue until Boot’s started flogging the LRC’s balloons again en-masse in the ’60s, thus nobbling the barbers’ under-the-counter (but not particularly discouraged) trade, and vending machines appeared in pub toilets. Boot’s had yielded to pressure from all sorts of moralising wowsers and stopped selling in the ’20s (after a previous wartime exigency forced the saner Authorities to exhort the… Read more »

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I can see the POV of both Roosh’s ‘Women have reduced themselves to sexual commodities’ and Matt Forney’s ‘Why MGTOW, is no way for MTG’. @ Rollo / Hoellenhund2 / kfg – from the original MGTOW manifesto…(last paragraph) “You will basically be alone doing this. There is no organization supporting you. You just go your own way and do what you believe is right. You are never obligated beyond your own conscience. True masculinity is also about accepting the rights of other men and not letting them down for any short term personal benefits. The men’s movement does actually cover… Read more »

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stuttie, nobody gives a damn about that manifesto. It’s a post from 2001, with an empty comment thread, on a marginal blog that has been dormant for years. The MGTOW

hoellenhund2
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The MGTOW acronym has apparently taken on a life of its own, and nothing can be done about it. Why do people see that as problematic? Are they that invested in their own narrative about masculinity?

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@hoellenhund2
“On the other hand, they are thrown a bone by occiasionally getting declared to have an important role in family life. It’s pretty much an inside joke by mainstream society.”
Not to me. To me that’s the part where I walk away from society.

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“I think the Basement Dwelling Virgins® may have embraced MGTOW and ultimately clouded the original manifesto’s message. ” Barbarossa, who is anything but a basement dwelling virgin, but is a rather young man, crafted a new MGTOW, which overtly rejects the manifesto as anything but historic. Me, I come from the other side, going my own way long before the manifesto was written and thus tend to think of it as rather new fangled. I cut what some might consider a rather fine distinction; I do not identify as MGTOW, but I am MGHOW. The former is plural, the latter… Read more »

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Forge the Sky June 23rd, 2015 at 5:03 pm The Soviet Union already did the experiment. For a while they killed off the family. It did not turn out well. They ended the experiment. You can’t beat biology. RP itself is proof of that. There is a famous equation in sociology. It shows that the degree of altruism expressed is proportional to the degree of genetic relatedness. What else do we know? Tribes with populations above about 150 fission. Tribal economy fails beyond that level of population. We see something similar with socialism. It seems to work better when a… Read more »

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“It’s a post from 2001, with an empty comment thread, on a marginal blog that has been dormant for years.”

The early years of MGTOW are characterized by its spaces and records being continuously under attack and its records destroyed.

What you are looking at is the equivalent of a world in the which the US constitution is on display, but the Federalist Papers only exist as mimeographed samizdat.

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@ hoellen – “Are they that invested in their own narrative about masculinity?”

I’d say yes they are. If a guy comes across MGTOW in the ‘sphere first, he’s invested in those ideals and hangs onto them.

I agree with kfg’s MGHOW singular approach. As the manifesto states “just go your own way and do what you believe is right”.

As with PUA, MGTOW isn’t necessarily a gauge of Red Pill awareness. For me, TRM / Red Pill underpins it all.

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The early years of MGTOW are characterized by its spaces and records being continuously under attack and its records destroyed.

By whom? Are you going to tell me someone hacked that blog and deleted the comments?

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Striver June 23rd, 2015 at 2:48 pm I’m going to work that comment some more. There is a lot of meat there. But there is something you left out IMO. The biological Alpha. It may not be entirely learned. Or learning it may change your biology. Testosterone production goes up when a man feels successful. This puts out a smell. And women are creatures of smell. And then there is suicide. How many times do we see that on this board? A man who feels useless wants to die. ======== What I know about me. I try to dominate any… Read more »

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“Are you going to tell me someone hacked that blog and deleted the comments?”

No, but I am telling you that, like the constitution on public display, it is not the original and the supporting documents are missing. The original MGTOW forums were deleted several times.

“By whom?”

The ISPs, under threat of prosecution for hosting hate speech.

hoellenhund2
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I see. That’s hardly surprising.

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kfg
June 23rd, 2015 at 7:40 pm

HBD?

Loved: a personal introduction to the Gods of the Copybook Headings.

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“HBD?”

Human Bio Diversity. The measurable biological differences among human breeding groups. Oddly enough, to deny it, they must start by disqualifying its most obvious manifestations.

“Oh, yeah, but other than that, and that, and that, and the other thing, there is no difference.”

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Striver June 23rd, 2015 at 2:48 pm There is nothing wrong with the FI – it is just a fact of nature. Where it goes wrong is when it gets political power and decrees that it is the only true fact of nature. I do think you are correct and we will be seeing a revolt of the Betas. Eventually. But what it will look like is far from clear. Re: Roosh. I haven’t been following that except second hand from reports posted here. Looking for “the one” is insanity. What worked in my case was finding a one who… Read more »

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For those of you not familiar or those who would like a refresher:

The Gods of the Copybook Headings
http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_copybook.htm

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A cute bit quite relevant:

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “The Wages of Sin is Death.”

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy, And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “If you don’t work you die.”

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@kfg “they were, nonetheless, raised imbued with it, and it shows. They retain the ideals of egalitarianism in which they were trained.” Yeah that public school for me. ““By whom?” The ISPs, under threat of prosecution for hosting hate speech.” Good point to be made on why having Rollos books paper copy helps in case they shut down his site or someone hacks it and deleted all his data. “Oddly enough, to deny it, they must start by disqualifying its most obvious manifestations.” School @Rollo ” I can’t help anyone until I can help myself. So if that means I… Read more »

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rugby11ljh
June 23rd, 2015 at 9:05 pm

This is good:

http://brembs.net/hamilton/

As is this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin_selection#Hamilton.27s_rule

Search term “altruism equation hamilton”

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I want to expand a little on:

What I did know from the first GF is that serving the FI is not attractive to women. You can assist. You MUST NOT serve.

What has been done is to create a culture that is NOT attractive to the people who created it. Who wanted it.

They are getting what they wanted and it will turn into ashes in their mouth.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HatKUhhyksA

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G.B. Shaw again: Any marriage system which condemns a majority of the population to celibacy will be violently wrecked on the pretext that it outrages morality. ========= He is correct. That will be the pretext. It will not be the reason. ========= Polygamy, when tried under modern democratic conditions, as by the Mormons, is wrecked by the revolt of the mass of inferior men who are condemned to celibacy by it; for the maternal instinct leads a woman to prefer a tenth share in a first rate man to the exclusive possession of a third rate one. – GBS ==========… Read more »

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While Roosh goes further ’round the bend, Vox has a couple recent posts basically implying that “Delta” is the most the vast majority of us can aspire to be.

For the Omegas and Gammas reading his blog, I suppose Delta is a big improvement. Otherwise, what in the hell is he thinking? I don’t read Manosphere blogs because I aspire to be some boring-ass milquetoast fuddy-duddy. My slice of suburbia is full of Deltas. They’re about as interesting as watching paint dry. Just what the world needs – more people with no personality.

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M. Simon – “So maybe we should study how the Mormons evolved out of Polygamy. First off they were forced out of it. What will force us?”

Forced out.

Nothing like being chased cross country by the Army, and hunted like dogs by well, everyone, to get a people to have a come-to-Jesus-and-renegotiate-the-theology-moment.

Literally if they hadn’t abandoned polygamy they were going to be wiped out by a combination of military campaigns and vigilante mobs made up of the new arrived settlers.

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M. Simon – “What will force us?” The element of fear among women of being raped. If the society allows the few best men to horde the top half of all women, tells the mass of lesser men “get stuffed” then forcible rape becomes a valid strategy. This is especially true if those lesser men are compelled to provide labor, and protection to the society that doesn’t want them. Either a wise leader will send the army of lesser men to rape and pillage for the greater glory of the empire, or the army will rape and pillage at home… Read more »

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Badpainter:

Certainly. Game, bantering, verbal stuff, preening, has always been done by men, but violent taking has historically always been done by men. Regardless of whether the particular women involved liked it or not.

Remined of an old SNL skit. Bill Murray and Steve Martin play two cavemen. Murray is the strong, dumb one. Martin is the smart, witty caveman who winds up shagging the cavewoman (Laraine Newman.) Then after pontificating about the future of society, Martin goes to sleep. Murray then beats Martin’s brain in with a rock.

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Here’s some alphas of the last century and what I know about them: Babe Ruth: A feral brute. Lots of sex. Doubt he had “game”, a natural? Or just an insatiable appetite? Respected for his talents, but not expected to be a leader. Lou Gehrig was a beta. Mama’s boy. DiMaggio was aloof. Likely thought of as a leader by other players, though he probably never said much. Didn’t lead off the field, preferred aloofness. Probably got his women by sending a flunkie around and asking them if they’d like to meet DiMaggio. Hard for mortals to pull that one… Read more »

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If a man can’t be honest with himself in the privacy of his own mind, he has bigger things to worry about than what he calls himself. The most important thing is to accept TRP. Just get a grip. Get real. Accept reality for what it is. All the in-betweens and lost “Purple Pill” men, and men who’ve stuck their fingers down their throat after swallowing TRP — it’s all summed up by varying degrees of acceptance and denial. Accepting TRP 100% frees you to do whatever you want. A man who’s accepted TRP 100% could do what some MGTOW… Read more »

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@M Simon “So maybe we should study how the Mormons evolved out of Polygamy. First off they were forced out of it. What will force us?” They where giving an ultimatum follow or no state. Forced I don’t think is quiet the correct word. @Thelastcayote “Just what the world needs – more people with no personality.” Alpha is a mindset game is play. @Badpainter “This is especially true if those lesser men are compelled to provide labor, and protection to the society that doesn’t want them.” Colorado city still has polygamy I went to a house with a man who… Read more »

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Dirty pool, punk. Weak. You are such an epic fraud. But then, you already know that. Here’s something for your followers: live what you preach.

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Strawberry Princess
June 24th, 2015 at 3:09 am

Well lady – and I use the term very loosely – how is a man supposed to live? I personally want to hear it direct from the horse’s face.

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Badpainter
June 23rd, 2015 at 11:21 pm

The man is needed as a protector. That could work. LTR says it is one of my most prized – by her – qualities.

And our equalist friends seem intent on importing their downfall.

https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/06/23/nationwide-poll-of-us-muslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/14/middleeast/yazidi-sex-slaves-isis-damon/

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TheLastCoyote June 23rd, 2015 at 10:32 pm A link: Vox and Roosh http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/06/brainstorm-with-roosh.html Two points. The Bible as a manual on how to live – not bad, Red Pill is deeply embedded. Esp. the advice to women – once you have chosen surrender to him. Women these days have no idea of that let alone an understanding of how to do it. It is up to the man to make her want to surrender. It can be done – but it is very difficult without cooperation. And the culture is telling her – don’t cooperate. Patriarchy! Second off – the… Read more »

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@Stuttie At first I was great at learning the techniques but was still kind of over-thinking and angry at my short-comings. Now instead of beating myself up about them, I adapt them as true learnings. I pined away for a crazy ex who dumped me and fooled me into thinking there’s a chance….learning….stay strong, ride it out. I’ve been dumped two more times by hot young girls. I haven’t wavered. I’ve just blanked them completely. Eventually….I just roll past it and they don’t. The one girl who dumped me…I ignored for 8 straight months. It was her birthday and I… Read more »

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Talking of Roosh, for the life of me I can’t find the thread where his witless pronouncements on history brought me up short. Ctrl+F’d my way back through the commos on all the ‘Recent Posts’, I did try, boss. I remember he pulled some “fact” out of his arse (surprise!) about Westerners having not experienced starvation in living memory, thus accounting for their lack of moral fibre or some such wank. But here’s a nice looking example who eventually scrambled into celebrity and riches. Audrey Hepburn’s son ” .. explains in Audrey at Home: Memories of My Mother’s Kitchen that,… Read more »

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@KFG – Barbarossa’s ideas about politics and economics are infantile, fyi. He lead many MGTOWs astray, as does Stardusk or Thinking Ape or whatever that gamer calls himself now. I tried confronting BarBar on his own channel with facts and analysis at first, he rejected it all. I did videos on it all – no effect. What’s really sad is that BarBar is no MGTOW at all – by the definition of men who claim to be MGTOW. He dates and fucks women. But he rejects game utterly. In fact, if you peel back his mostly fatuous hyperbolic rhetoric what… Read more »

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@Badpainter – Your definition of “MGTOW” would be rejected by most self-anointed leaders of MGTOW on YouTube and elsewhere. Fyi, there is a reason that all discussions of MGTOW devolve immediately into an argument about what MGTOW means. That’s a sign that one shouldn’t waste their time in the first place. According to you: “MGTOW: A man’s understanding that nothing is free, and that includes his participation.” This is Red Pill understanding. MGTOW is much more than this. Essentially to be MGTOW is to take a course of action which has you drop out of social structures and conventions, to… Read more »

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@M SIMON “There is nothing wrong with the FI – it is just a fact of nature. Where it goes wrong is when it gets political power and decrees that it is the only true fact of nature.” From Rollo: “Simply put, the feminine imperative is the totality of the framework – social, biological, personal, etc. – that implicitly benefits the feminine. And while they are correct that the social conventions of the feminine imperative are (for the greater part) learned and acculturated, they are the social tools used by the imperative, not the motivating imperative itself…. On a base… Read more »

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@Politics – For those of you interested, Mises said it best. The larger point here is that private property is emergent across cultures. The basic ideas of liberty – the rule of law, restraint on rulers, rights of some sort for “free men” etc all arise again and again as society scales. Even in totalitarian cultures, the idea that men enjoy some freedom keeps coming up. OTOH, socialism is an intellectual response to an analysis of what’s happening – socialism never “happened”, it was imposed. And it failed every time – by it’s own measures (poverty reduction, “fairness”, equallity worth… Read more »

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Still having problems embedding, grrr, sorry.

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Okay, I think Rollo changed plugins or something. Here’s the link to the Mises pic.
http://tinypic.com/r/wgx737/8

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[IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/wgx737.jpg[/IMG]

Badpainter
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scribblerg – “You can’t just make MGTOW mean anything you want – otherwise it means nothing.” Can’t disagree with that. However, if I am going my own way then isn’t my definition the correct one for me? And isn’t that the point of “going my own way,” to come up with my own definitions, understandings, and rules? Why go my own way if I have to accept someone else’s script for such? Now I get your point and your criticism is indeed valid. I find it interesting that an idea that seems to embrace a radical individual separatism has a… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Why should biology be pushing the FI? I see no necessary reason for biology to push the FI. Rather, since men are endowed with greater strength, tactical understanding, risk-taking, etc., biology would say that men should be able to mate with whoever they like. Biology enables rape. There are many ancient cultures where we see evidence of a Masculine Imperative (MI). The ancient Romans, among other cultures, elevated the phallic symbol. Men even carried such a symbol in pouches around their necks. The Romans displayed the phallic symbol in their public places. Culture is historically agnostic about either FI or… Read more »

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Is Roosh gonna become one of the annoying born-agains that still brags about his past life as serious player?

M Simon
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Atticus
June 24th, 2015 at 9:50 am

If you want a family you will be serving the female. The question is only – male dominant or female dominant service.

A family is very much an experience worth having. But if you fail to dominate in the system as it exists – frivorce – it will be a disaster for a man.

theasdgamer
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I remember he pulled some “fact” out of his arse (surprise!) about Westerners having not experienced starvation in living memory, thus accounting for their lack of moral fibre or some such wank.

Bread riots occurred in Boston (18th century) and Richmond (19th century). There was hunger in the U.S. during the Great Depression.

M Simon
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Let me try:

scribblerg

June 24th, 2015 at 10:10 am

[IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/wgx737.jpg[/IMG]

http://i61.tinypic.com/wgx737.jpg

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scribblerg
June 24th, 2015 at 10:10 am

Instead of this: [IMG]

What you want is this (without spaces) :

M Simon
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Lets try that again with code

What you want is this: <IMG>

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Badpainter
June 24th, 2015 at 10:58 am

The three laws of thermodynamics
1. You can’t win
2. You can’t break even
3. You can’t quit

That applies to just about everything where humans are involved. MGTOW is not quitting. It is just a low energy way of playing the game.

I’m rather a fan of high energy.

http://protonboron.com/portal/power-grid-frequency-meter/

70'sAntiHero
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@Rollo By Roosh’s answer’s in that interview it is revealing that he has a greater desire for ‘better’ personal meaning. . . A volitional and emotional departure from theTRUTHS he already knows in hopes that someone or something else is right. . . To me, as a result of my personal marriage experience, a philosophical pre-disposition to ‘objectivity’ and the evidence of as to the effects of female hypergamy, as you so clearly point out in your essays. . . . . . The Red Pill is a jeanie that I will never try to put back into the bottle.… Read more »

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should of said :

Where feminism, group think, multi-clultural driven political correctness and entitlement culture is so prevalent in Western nations.

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70’sAntiHero
June 24th, 2015 at 12:32 pm

God of the Machine, by Isabel Paterson – great read are you familiar?

No. But I’m a big Hayek and Mises fan. Also Milton Friedman. And libertarian thought in general.

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Rollo,

Have a look in the bit bucket. There is a comment (repeated) that isn’t posting.

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I’d rather disassociate with the “MGTOW” brand than identify with “giving up on women”. I am just “going a better way”, for myself. As far as women are concerned, they aren’t “the reason”. In fact, I’m going a better way for myself despite women (read: women aren’t going to side-track my personal progress and evolution). The only involvement women had with my “MGTOW”, or, deciding to put myself first, was a matter establishing better priorities for myself. As it happened, upon the happy coincidence of finding the red pill, I was prompted to do some deliberate introspection. My findings were… Read more »

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One of the counter currents we are staring to see is:

Do you wish you had children?
http://forums.psychcentral.com/question-month/55192-do-you-wish-you-had-children.html

It is not very strong yet – look at the comments. It will get stronger as these women hit their 50s and 60s.

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Vulpine June 24th, 2015 at 1:16 pm CAD drafting programs do not replace material knowledge. They can help with “feeds and speeds” but they do not tell you what material to use. I’m designing a different kind of CNC system. As soon as our project gets some money up I have a need for your talent. If you are interested. Contact: http://protonboron.com/portal/#contact BTW Naval Nukes are still in demand. As are EEs. Bench technicians for prototypes. And people who can do bare metal programming. The key to staying relevant is learning a new major skill every 5 or 8 years.… Read more »

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Women aren’t having babies:

[link to chart here]

The FI has outsmarted itself. I wonder if the excesses of the 20s ushered in the Great Depression of the 30s in the same way? The 20s was another FI era. Mainly due to a man shortage from war deaths. These days it is by choice. “Women can have it all” – just not as much.

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“Is it gynocentrism that we need to understand? Or is it . . .”

The best I can do is that it is female nature. The things you list are indeed among the ways that their nature manifests itself. However, I will note that male nature must also be understood and gynocentrism is one of the ways that it manifests.

It’s a dance and It takes two to tango.

“Barbar will lead you into an intellectual cul de sac filled with bad ideas and a disempowering world view.”

Barbar leads me nowhere, particularly when he flirts around the edges of transhumanism.

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A a word about what MGTOW means for history. MGTOW is a low energy adaptation.

Low energy societies get overtaken by high energy societies. Always? No. But that is the way to bet. It may be one of the reasons that MGTOW gets no respect. A faint historical memory. Which could be in part genetic.

Societies that can generate enough excess energy to field a war machine dominate. Of course they need warriors….

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Rollo Tomassi
June 24th, 2015 at 1:47 pm

Don’t disagree. And yet… They have outsmarted themselves by not reproducing. The end result? The desire for reproduction will be strengthened. Only women who WANT to reproduce are reproducing.

With children to take care of, women will be less free to participate in politics. Should we last that long. It will be a close run thing.

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Rollo Tomassi June 24th, 2015 at 1:47 pm I’m not so sure hormonal BC made the difference. My Dad always had a box of rubbers (144 count) sitting out on the dresser in his bedroom. He was a WW2 guy. I came along in Oct ’44. Almost 2 months early. So Feb. ’44. He was in the Pacific. Okinawa was his big battle. He was on a gasoline oiler. USS Escatawpa AOG-27 Top speed 10 knots. Cruising speed 9.5 knots. He went through a typhoon in that. In the battle it was a sitting duck. Fortunately the Japanese had honor.… Read more »

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So why the baby boom? Economics. The US was the only untouched industrial economy post WW2. Women didn’t have to work. They could stay at home and make babies. The wealth was there. Not just from “last man standing” but also commercial exploitation of wartime inventions. Just one – the cavity magnetron – is in every home and hovel in America. Microwave ovens.

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@M Simon “If you want a family you will be serving the female. The question is only – male dominant or female dominant service. A family is very much an experience worth having. But if you fail to dominate in the system as it exists – frivorce – it will be a disaster for a man.” So you are saying that if I want a family I am serving the female. Not true. I wanted a family for me. My oldest son is named after me; one of my uncles has our family tree back to Germany in the 1500’s.… Read more »

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Correction: 8 figure company.

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Rollo Tomassi
June 24th, 2015 at 2:15 pm

Nothing stopped my mom from “pinholing” the rubbers. Some women did. Some still do.

Another economic point. The birth dearth of the 30s. Bad economics.

So what can we reasonably say? Economics in the US has been on the decline for about 20 or 25 years. Since the early or mid 90s. Why? Well we have plenty of theories. Nothing definite.

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M Simon. “Fortunately the Japanese had honor. There was no honor in attacking support ships. They lost the war in part because of honor.”

I think it’s time for your nap.

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Atticus June 24th, 2015 at 2:22 pm Well I wanted a family for me. But the obvious mechanics of the situation required me to serve her and the children. I had to earn the money. She was tied up with hormones in the early stages and carrying an extra 10 to 40 lbs in the later stages. And since she wanted to devote her time to the children until they were off to school she was not working for about 15 years (4 children over a period of 10 years). Thus I had to serve her and the children. Even… Read more »

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Atticus
June 24th, 2015 at 2:29 pm

If you had studied the war in the Pacific in depth you would find that the Japanese were obsessed with attacking war ships where as the main American effort went into attacking Japanese logistics.

It is time for you to read deeper into the history.

Old military studies axiom, “Amateurs study battles, professionals study logistics.”

kfg
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@Rollo: “So, Roosh thinks he’s William Blake now? OK, got it.”

If forced to choose, and with a bus parked firmly on top of me it would be hard to deny that I have been, I’m going with Lord Byron. I’m staying the hell away from Greece though. If I’m going to die defending a hell hole, it’ll be my own hell hole and Greece will be here soon enough.

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“As soon as our project gets some money up I have a need for your talent.” I have some talents, but, I was un-motivated to “officially” develop them into something meaningful you could use. Like I said, the glut made for a over-competition-for-underpayment dynamic that prompted me to get off that path with a quickness (while I still had reversible debt, and before “the damage was done”). I dropped out of college directly when I found that my degree would be functionally the equivalent of a general studies degree in terms of earning potential. Well, that, among a few other… Read more »

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“…a slowing of the maturation process was the inevitable result of women’s freedom of Hypergamous choice. Short-term Alpha Fucks no longer posed the same societal and personal risks of a pre-birth control generation, thus long-term pairing choices (Beta bucks) began to be delayed.” I’d say by now the societal and personal risks are negligible for pretty much any decision made by women. So these days, the delay of the beta-bucks model is extended to encompass a starter marriage or having children. The cuckhold window is wide open. I’ve seen this in fellow genXers who actually married young (by todays standards)… Read more »

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M Simon

You wanted a kids. Your wide raised them in the home you provided. How is that serving her? That’s like saying I am serving Exxon buy buying gas for the motorcycle I ride.

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Razorwire: “I’m sure it is funny”

The only reaction I get from Will Ferrell is internal hives.

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Vulpine
June 24th, 2015 at 2:50 pm

If you want to get back in the game, your interest is all that matters. As to proprietary. We are open source. But we are not adverse to advantage. So if you want to convey openly – fine. If you would rather get some advantage – fine. We will be glad to work out compensation if your idea has merit.

And we will have need for machinist talent in addition to ME stuff.

We do skype. Just leave a message.

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Atticus June 24th, 2015 at 2:52 pm That’s like saying I am serving Exxon buy buying gas for the motorcycle I ride. And you are in fact serving Exxon buy buying their gas. And you are serving steel companies, aluminum smelters, tire makers, road builders, and whole hosts of others. Just by going for a joy ride. Or as I like to say, “You can’t do just one thing.” If you want to get deeply philosophical. We are here to serve. How should that service be done? Such questions have kept economists, natural philosophers, biologists, and people of religion busy… Read more »

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Razorwire June 24th, 2015 at 2:50 pm Very nice. and it also explains why the upper/professional classes are more likely to have intact families these days than the middle and especially lower classes. This will change over time because children’s desire for intact families will help change the dynamic. Some. It informed the LTR’s decision. She chose her Alpha based (in part) on earning potential. She came from a broken home and was not at all happy with the result. She was determined to do better for her kids. There are a lot of forces at work here. It will… Read more »

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@Rollo If the guy’s had a Red Pill “education” and is making an informed decision to go his own way, that change is motivated by something founded in truth. Ahh… good points. I still remember the “positive male” group over at SS, of which you were a part, that helped sway my process of unplugging back then. You guys really piled on when I was at crucial turning points… “read Atlas Shrugged!” and looking back, I really value it differently now than I did at the time. Now, I see that the common advice of “read, read, read.” hits at… Read more »

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