Changing Your Programming

tilting_at_windmills

Changing Your Programming

I mentioned in the first book that I am not a motivational speaker.

I’m not anyone’s savior and I would rather men be their own self-sustaining solutions to becoming the men they want and need to be – not a Rollo Tomassi success story, but their own success stories.

That said, let me also add that I would not be writing what I do if I thought that biological determinism, circumstance and social conditioning were insurmountable factors in any Man’s life. Men can accomplish great things through acts of will and determination. God willing, they can be masters of those circumstances and most importantly masters of themselves.

With a healthy understanding, respect and awareness of what influences his own condition, a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions in which he operates and maneuvers.

You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s Hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.

You can unplug.

You can change your programming, and you can live a better life no matter your demographic, age, past regrets or present circumstances.

These are the last words from The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine. I wrote something similar in the first book too, but I’m quoting them here because they are just as important now as they were when I was writing them then. I’m not now nor have I ever been interested in creating a cult of Rollo. I’m not interested in creating better men, I’m interested in those men making themselves better men.

Descriptions and Prescriptions

You’ll have to forgive me, I wrote this part about a year ago, but I think it’s still relevant now. In part 4 of Preventative Medicine a commenter (who, for the record is not an InCel by any stretch) asked me why I had no real prescriptive plan for men to follow with regards to ‘preventing’ or avoiding the bad decisions associated with the time line I laid out in that series. This was my response:

Imagine for a moment I had the temerity to presume that I know exactly what a 60 year old reader experiences in his personal life with a post-menopausal wife. I could take a good stab at it, but anything specific I could prescribe for him would be based on my best-guess speculations and according to how I’ve observed and detailed things in this series or any of my past posts.

From my earliest posts at SoSuave (in 2004) I’ve had men ask me for some ‘medicine’ for their condition; some personalized plan that will work for them. This sentiment is exactly what makes PUA and manosphere ‘self-help’ speakers sell DVDs and seats at seminars. They claim to have the cure. I say that’s bullshit.

I’m not in the business of cures, I’m in the business of diagnoses. Imagine a PUA guru attempting to force fit their plans to accommodate that 60 year old man’s situation. Athol Kay makes attempts to remedy married men’s (non) sex lives, but what’s his real success rate? Is it even measurable? Even Athol recognizes that his MMSL outline is just a map, a diagnosis, that men have to modify for themselves per their individual experience and demographic. You see, your cure, your plan of action isn’t what another man’s will be, or your future son’s, or anyone else reading my work. I can give you a map, but you still have to make your own trail. I’m not a savior, you are your savior

Short version: I’m not interested in making men be better men, I’m interested in men making themselves better Men.

What’s more legitimate, my prescribing some course or template to follow that leads a man to a success that ultimately I define for a reader, or my laying out an accurate landscape for his better understanding and he creates his own success with it?

Are you your success or my success? I’d rather a Man be his own.

Most men already suspect they know what the keys are, and most even know how to use them, but what they really want is confirmation that they actually have the keys.

My approach to Game is defined in much broader terms than simply ‘how to get girls’, and I think for the better part of the manosphere the understanding of Game has evolved beyond rote memorization of scripts and plans. It’s gotten to a stage where even the most enthusiastic proponents of PUA techniques acknowledge a need for an individualized approach to relating and interacting with women based on a broader applied understanding of feminine psychology, sociology and the particular conditions that apply to themselves as well as the women they’re interacting with.

It’s been noted before, my approach to Game / Red Pill awareness is descriptive, not prescriptive.

I’m humbled by the men who email me and let me know how something I’ve written or shined a light on for them has saved them from suicide or some particular hell they would’ve endured longer in. For the most part though I get email and comments from men who tell me that they have built better lives for themselves because a Red Pill awareness made their situations more intelligible. I don’t sell a program or a prescription because each man’s circumstance is different, his acculturation is different, his ethnicity, society, upbringing, body composition and mental faculties are all different.

But we are all men. If the Red Pill is anything it’s a consortium of men who relate their individual experiences about women, about themselves and about their circumstances in what’s now become a feminine-primary social order. As I’ve stated in the past, I’m humbled and flattered to be considered one of the pillars of Red Pill awareness, but most of what I write is the result of piecing together the related experiences of other men.

I didn’t create the Red Pill, I just describe that awareness in terms I think are intelligible. I connect dots, but much of those dots are presented to me by a collective of men who’ve had common experiences. If those dots don’t follow, if those dots would be better connected in another way, I expect the Men who make up Red Pill awareness to offer their new ideas in an open exchange, in a marketplace of ideas.

Sometimes that marketplace gets weighed down with disingenuous critics, trolls and attention seekers, but this is the price, I believe, is necessary to distill and test the strength of those ideas. Only in a crucible of open debate where all are encouraged to participate can those ideas be sussed out.

Men with questions don’t frighten me; men with no questions do.

Law 18: Do Not Build Fortresses to Protect Yourself— Isolation is Dangerous
The world is dangerous and enemies are everywhere— everyone has to protect themselves. A fortress seems the safest. But isolation exposes you to more dangers than it protects you from-it cuts you off from valuable information, it makes you conspicuous and an easy target. Better to circulate among people, find allies, mingle. You are shielded from your enemies by the crowd.

From Nursing Power:

A handful of my male readers often ask why I don’t moderate comments, or that the message of Rational Male would be better served if I banned certain commenters. I’ve mentioned on several posts and threads as to why I won’t ever do that (except for blatant spamming), but in a nutshell it’s my fundamental belief that the validity of any premise or idea should be able to withstand public debate. People who aren’t confident of the strength of their assertions or ideas, or are more concerned with profiting from the branding of those weak assertions than they are in truth, are the first to cry about the harshness of their critics and kill all dissent as well as all discourse about those assertions.

That’s the primary reason I’ve never moderated; if people think I’m full of shit I’m all ears – I’m not so arrogant as to think I’ve thought of every angle about any idea I express here or on any other forum. However, the second reason I don’t censor, ban users or delete comments is that I believe it’s useful to have critics (usually women or fem-men) provide the gallery with examples of exactly the mentality or dynamic I’m describing in an essay. With a fair amount of predictability, a blue pill male or an upset woman will just as often prove my point for me and serve as a model for what I’ve described.

I never intentionally try to make rubes out of the critics I know will chime in about something, but I will sometimes leave out certain considerations I may have already thought about something, knowing it will get picked up on by a critic. I do this on occasion because the I know that the “ah hah! I got him, he forgot about X,Y, Z” moment serves as a better teaching tool and confirms for me that a critic does in fact comprehend what I’m going on about.

Last week Roosh came out against the various tribes of Game such as it is. While I understand his intent I must disagree with his methods. A couple of weeks ago I got into a bit of political discourse with regard to how the Feminine Imperative and how Hypergamy influences social dynamics. That post generated a lot of conversation, but from it I made this statement:

It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.

Furthermore, any co-branding will still be violently disowned by whatever ideology it’s paired with because the Feminine Imperative has already co-opted and trumps the fundaments of that ideology. The fundamental truth is that the manosphere, pro-masculine thought, Red Pill awareness or its issues are an entity of its own.

As most of my readers know I have a great deal of respect for Roosh and I still do. Nothng is going to change that. I think time will tell what direction his push for Neomasculine philosophy truly goes in. As far as what he’s describing in that “new” doctrine there’s not much I disagree with. I’ll take issue with his anti-evolution, anti-evo psych stance. I’ll take issue with his want for some as yet undefined moralism; and not because I don’t think morality or reverence to a higher power shouldn’t be part of it, but rather because it pollutes and distorts open discourse.

I’m not an atheist, anyone who’s read my commentary on Dalrock’s site knows this. That said I don’t think there is a substitute for critical inquiry, and when that is stifled, that’s when we lean over into dogma.

From Moral to the Manosphere:

Putting angel’s or devil’s wings on observations hinders real understanding.

I say that not because I don’t think morality is important in the human experience, but because our interpretations of morality and justice are substantially influenced by the animalistic sides of our natures, and often more than we’re willing to admit to ourselves. Disassociating one’s self from an emotional reaction is difficult enough, but adding layers of moralism to an issue only convolutes a better grasp of breaking it down into its constituent parts. That said, I also understand that emotion and, by degree, a sense of moralism is also characteristic of the human experience, so there needs to be an accounting of this into interpretations of issues that are as complex as the ones debated in the manosphere.

Although I’m aware that observing a process will change it, it’s my practice  not to draw moralistic conclusions in any analysis I make because it adds bias where none is necessary. The problem is that what I (and others in the manosphere) propose is so raw it offends ego-invested sensibilities in people. Offense is really not my intent, but often enough it’s the expected result of dissecting cherished beliefs that seem to contribute to the well being of an individual.

There was a time I sat in a behavioral psychology class back in college. Behaviorism appealed to me because it was very nuts & bolts, not at all like the touchy-feely humanist schools of psychology. Behavior is the only reliable proof of motive. It was cause and effect, modify variables, and watch for behavior.

At one point I began to see that women are masters of operant conditioning – they had the natural reward 99% of men want, sex. Men’s behavior could be modified just by the prospect of sex, and they could also be influenced by negative reinforcement and punishment. It was one thing to make these observation, but quite another to express them in the classroom. Many of the more intelligent minds I dealt with then would adamantly refuse to recognize the truths that operant conditioning played. After I thought about it I understood that they were likewise motivated to deny what I thought was right in front of their faces.

I had connected some uncomfortable dots; dots that had the potential of making a man less desirable for having connected them. This was really the beginning of many more uncomfortable connections I would make later.

Roosh has tried to make a case that the Red Pill community (subred) has now reached critical mass. He sees it as inbred; a community of complainers – and in some instances I can understand that. Debate can often sound like complaining. However, what I get from Roosh now is a need for answers, it seems to me he’s looking for a plan of action. He wants something prescriptive for himself and other men to follow on with. I get it.

He’s still included Red Pill truths as being an important part of his new doctrine and I’d respect him for that, if not for the wholesale disownment of the consortium that’s been the testbed for those truths for so long. As I stated above, I think Neomasculinity may have some merit, I don’t disagree with about 90% of the manifesto Roosh went to great effort to put together. What I disagree with is how he’s initiated all of this. He does no favors to himself with casual dismissals of principles he knows are deeper than he wants to give credit to – in fact most are principles he influenced personally.

As for my part, I’m going to keep doing what I do and that’s making men aware of the world that’s been pulled over their eyes. I will likely have some strong disagreement with Roosh in the future, but as I’m fond of saying unplugging men from the matrix is dirty work. We’re both in the same family, and sometimes brothers will fight, and that’s OK.

I disagree with him that the Red Pill will cease to go on. It may be called something else, but it’s been around before he or I started writing about it. The “Red Pill”, like many other terms, is an abstraction; a place holder for an idea. Don’t like the Matrix movie references? Fine, but the truth is the truth and freely expressed ideas need words to describe them.

Maybe Neomasculinity is the prescription you need, but from what I can gather so far it’s a movement based on exclusion; not inclusion, not on a free exchange of ideas. Maybe the christianized Red Pill of Donalgraeme or Dalrock is a better prescription for you. Maybe you need the inspiration of a guy like Victor Pride and a better outlook on your physique.

Or maybe all you need is a truth and an awareness to help you lift yourself up. Yes, Red Pill awareness can be very depressing in the beginning, I’ve written several posts and book chapters dedicated to helping men come to terms with that, but ultimately it will be that awareness that becomes the catalyst for changing his life.

The Red Pill isn’t one size fits all, you have to tailor your own life with what it shows you.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

1,375 comments on “Changing Your Programming

  1. The fundamental truth is that the manosphere, pro-masculine thought, Red Pill awareness or its issues are an entity of its own.

    Not entirely. The smaller government movement (libertarianism if you will) is getting considerable impetus from the FI using government to go after men.

    I had some social conservatives visit me the other day and it was amazing the amount of libertarianism that leaked out in their conversation. And these were females.

    ==========

    Bad government is despised. Good government is loved. The best government is unnoticed.

  2. I find Roosh inspiring and worth reading. But none the less I always thought he didn’t take the RedPill deep enough. He uses game to get his needs fulfilled, but his needs are beta. Game won’t get your beta-needs really fulfilled. Taking the RedPill deep enough let’s you get rid of those needs by cleansing you from unrealistic and idealistic expectations. Giving up on what you cannot get anyway will set you free. Rooshs issue is of course how he made women (or chasing them) his life-goal and business. He would need other goals, more fulfilling goals.

    But Roosh still has a point: Performing the Alpha-Player is the wet dream of the rising matriarchy. Making man into those sexy clowns is the total victory of the FI. It’s man shaping themselves for female needs and desires. But I don’t see any way how game or any other change man could do to themselves is gonna change that. The current world and it’s SMP wasn’t shaped by liberalism or female mainstream dominance, it’s the result of female birth-control and social safety (including divorce laws). The only way to change things is to overthrow those (especially the later), maybe civilization itself. If the world would be a place where women cannot go out on the streets alone without falling victim to violence, the men could get a lot more from them without any need for clowning. No political movement, no morals or social conventions could achieve that. Therefor I don’t think Neomasculinity as a political movement has any chance to change things. It’s by far not radical enough. The neomasculine movements with a chance to success I see out in the world are ISIS or the Narco-Gangs of Mexico etc. Those don’t fight with ideas or ideals. They overthrow civilization to create a world suited for man and women have to adapt to survive.
    Too radical for you? Better learn game and accept being the work-drone or sexy clown of the matriarchy…

  3. I think Roosh will be 36 years of age soon (or already just turned 36) which corresponds perfectly with Rollo’s SMV chart.

    https://rationalmale.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/smv_curve1.jpg

    The guy obviously is trying to rationalize settling down and maintain credibility within the manosphere (his customers). The manosphere is his bread and butter (Rollo is financially independ from the manosphere) which only forces me to look at Roosh with a little more critically.

  4. @zdro1dz

    I think your just focusing on different areas of af/bb, just like you said, in college it would be all about af and near the wall for women’s smv it would be more bb, your thinking more in terms of the bb time frame but in the end its all just a subset of af/bb.

  5. There’s an important distinction to be made between the search for truth and the search for meaning. These two have interplay, but they are by no means the same.

  6. zdr01dz

    May 26th, 2015 at 12:00 am

    “Despite these costs most women feel a strong desire to have children. The motherhood instinct pops up in many ways. Women rescue homeless kittens and care for wounded soldiers. Most of the time these secondary behaviors driven by the motherhood instinct offer no return on investment.”

    Why do women typically have less children the more they can afford them? More wealth (abundant monetary en material resources) generally = less procreation. It’s typically the poor that are having the children the rich are barely above replacement. We should ask ourselves “why do women have children?” If we can answer this the AF/BB question becomes clear.

  7. Rollo,
    I really believe that saying you don’t advocate a plan or schema is a bit of a cop out. The mere introduction of the Value Curves that peak at different ages for Women and Men IS advocating a schema.

    If you look at the curves objectively, you see the following obvious conclusions.

    1 – A man has no business getting serious with a woman before peaking his value around 30.
    Implication – All this teen – 20s male hand wringing about getting female attention is a waste of time… get your life in ORDER then get a mate around 30.

    2- A woman should maximize her value potential by mating with a man around 30 when she is 22-23.
    Implication – the “have it all” feminist mind set is wrong a woman should maximize her value years in nailing down long term support for her children.

    So much of our societies problems would be fixed by recognizing this. Lack of financial child support. Declining birth rates due to older women attempting motherhood. etc

    And actually all of this is pointing out truths that were obvious to people of my Grandfather’s generation. The best advice he ever gave me is when I broke up with a fiancé in my mid 20’s. He said 29 is a better time to marry.

    And he was right.

  8. The Red Pill can show a man that he needs to build his own world that corresponds to his deepest desires. Only then, will he never feel alone and his life will have meaning. That differs sharply for each one. Roosh seems to have neglected to do that. I suspect that most PUAs will run into the same issue.

  9. @Zdroidz – Wow, this motherhood stuff is ridiculous. A few bits of evidence would seem to confound your views. Also, a bit of logic, so here goes:

    1. Why do women most often initiate divorce in families with young children? Stats show that in such cases, the divorce is initiated by women about 80% of the time. How does this prioritization of motherhood factor in while booting out the father? It’s well known that children don’t develop as well without their bio-Dad in the home, so how does this factor into the world you see?

    2. Declining birth rates – The birth rate among white American woman has collapsed to below replacement rates (and now it’s happening in minority populations too). Why are women having fewer babies?

    3. Abortion rates – Using abortion for birth control is common among women in the west now. Again, how can any women so driven by maternal instinct also kill her baby? As an aside, I heard a great statistic the other day. In one week, as many black babies are aborted in the U.S. as the total number of lynchings of black people in our entire history. Talk about genocide…

    4. Increasing female infidelity rates across the spectrum – Married women cheat as much as men do today, and many bits of data support the idea that they may cheat more. Again, why would female infidelity rates be rising if sex (AF) as not increasing in primacy for women in general?

    Even worse for you, your entire proposition completely ignores the culture and what it says is important to women. Every show on TV now has a “dominant” woman who also likes to fuck, and does so as she sees fit. Married or unmarried, mother or not a mother, good decision or not – it’s applauded and cheered on . Marriage? Motherhood? Backburner, that can be dealt with “later”. Culture does not arise in a vacuum, it reflects values.

    I’ll sink down to the personal since most of your comments seem to be about what you see in your limited world. The mothers I see are less loving and caring of their children than ever these days. The pictures you show, making saints of mothers are simply not what I see. I see a woman pushing her kid along in a 400 dollar stroller, her phone glued to her ear or hands, in a consumptive frenzy while ignoring her children and complaining how hard motherhood is. I don’t see these genteel, loving mothers you seem to believe are everywhere, I see hardened, self-centered bitches who can’t wait to put their kids down so they can get on with their lives.

    Last. I also believe that women’s love for their children is simply orthogonal to their drive for sex. One has nothing to do with the other, they don’t compete with each other. Today’s world has sought to decrease the risk/cost of female promiscuity and motherhood if a woman “chooses” to not kill her baby – so we should see more motherhood, not less. But we don’t. And yes, I’m a pro-life atheist. People can never get their head around that one, but I have good company in men like the late, great Christopher Hitchens.

    But hey, you can just ignore all the baby-slaughter going on and hang on to your illusions. One question though: Were you breast fed?

  10. Photo 1: Beta Bucks instinct. A skank gamer girl flashes skin to illicit “donations” from chumps. Beta bucks behaviors are entirely extractive and offer a high return on investment.
    http://i.imgur.com/PcPAAzX.jpg

    Photo 2: Motherhood instinct. An older woman volunteers at a shelter and cares for sick and injured animals. She receives nothing for her effort and her ROI is entirely negative. This behavior is rooted in selfless giving and care.
    http://i.imgur.com/EIAFGaE.jpg

    This illustrates how Motherhood and BB are distinct instincts that work in opposite directions.

  11. @Ang Gamer – Your plan is spot on but you miss Rollo’s distinction. Yes, common themes fall out of his analyses and these common themes lead to logical choices about how a man should proceed in life. But he’s saying something a bit subtler about how he sees his role in all of this.

    He’s being descriptive, not prescriptive. This means he’s respecting every man’s agency here to decide what and how to instrumentalize these ideas in how he goes about his life. He’s actually honoring the “leader” inside of all men, the part of them that is a leader in their own lives. This innately male form of respect is a great gift and helps Rollo miss many of the pitfalls that are consuming guys like Roosh or Julien at RSD.

    It’s this respect for our individual agency that is incredibly empowering. Of course, you may need a “plan” or program – great, go buy one. But own yourself and your agency and leadership first and foremost.

  12. Motherhood may be a naturally occuring instinct in women, but it’s a 2nd or 3rd order effect whereas the AF/BB is 1st order. Only when a woman has both her AF and BB side satisfied will any mothering instinct be visible as a personality trait. Survival and DNA replication come first, mothering is a 3rd tier, less-important instinct.

  13. Some of you folks are in luck because I have to work in the field all day. My work today is mindless so I’ll have plenty of time to ponder this, hehe.

  14. @droids

    Your hamster is on crack homie. You completely the ignore the basics of human choice politics and can’t think abstractly enough to avoid time boxing your observations. It’s OK dude, let it go. I cant do quantum mechanics in my head either, few can.

    @insanitybytes

    You are correct that you have lived in a time of “peak woman”. That time is rapidly coming to a close. Adapt and make damn sure you got the best man you can attract, cause as it was until a century ago and coming very, very soon, a woman without a man was dead.

    Just one disruption to our way of life and poof!

  15. @Tilikum

    Actually, women without husbands survived just fine in past centuries. Typically the safest place for them was inside the gates of walled cities, oftentimes in brothels or working as cooks, cleaners, etc.. for wealthier people.

    Men were typically given a much simpler choice, swear allegiance to a lord/king/ruler, work his lands to gain him profit, and serve in his armies when called; or face execution for treason.

    Yes, the FI runs deep, and is quite old. The myth of a patriarchal “Easy street” for men is just that, a myth sold to women to make them fear men.

  16. @Rollo – While this is a great piece, again you seem to be at pains to separate the RP from morality and politics when in many ways it’s a commentary on both. Even worse, the RP is an innately moral analyses that seeks to punch through the FI inspired memes which have rapidly come to the fore in our society over the past 50 years. Ooops, there goes that memeplex thing I’ve been trying to get you guys to think about for a year plus, that the left has become expert at manipulating and controlling – why do you think the Gramscians sought to overtake the academy and media and arts, for funzies?

    Essentially, the male complaint embedded in the Red Pill is that the brainwashing of men with Blue Pill memes is cruel to men and a disservice to men trying to lead happy lives. That is a moral argument. And the politics of how this all spins out of control so rapidly are given to us by the left, not the right. That’s just a plain fact.

    Folks here seem to think that acknowledging this means they should go campaign for Ted Cruz or something, or become like that windbag on YouTube, Chapin something or the other. Ah no.

    What is happening socially now is best seen as devolution, not evolution. The RP is a moral argument informed by masculinity against all that, starting with the actual effects of our current society on men, boys, fathers and masculinity itself.

    But i get it – you do not want to be associated with conservatives, whereas Roosh seems to have already landed there. Of course, free, sentient men will not find comfort there as those men are as Blue Pill as one can get for the most part. Trudging through life, taking the blows without complaint, hoping that someday they’ll be appreciated, lol.

    I mean, Rollo – would you ever be associated with Alex Jones? Me neither as he’s a fucking con artist, hysteric and fool. Roosh seems fine with being associated there, and really, that’s all one need to know about Roosh in a way. And if any of you flying monkeys here think Alex Jones is libertarian, all that means is that you don’t know the first thing about libertarianism in the first place. Jones is a populist fear monger who capitalizes on ignorance and emotion – first and foremost. Ain’t nothing libertarian about that.

  17. @Glenn

    …separate the RP from morality and politics when in many ways it’s a commentary on both. Even worse, the RP is an innately moral analyses that seeks to punch through the FI inspired memes which have rapidly come to the fore in our society over the past 50 years.

    Glenn, with respect, this is simply incorrect. “Red Pill” is not an innately moral analysis. It is an honest analysis, which in our modern times of daily bathing in lies feels significantly more “moral” than our daily activities. However, this does not make “Red Pill” moral in any sense of the word, it just means it has basis in fact as opposed to lies.

    Red Pill is not a commentary on anything other than the facts of our existence that were hidden by socially and generationally favored lies.

    1. Donalgraeme has a good take on objectivity in the Red Pill today. I understand there’s really no such thing as true objectivity, I’ve written several post about it (observing a process will change it), however that shouldn’t excuse us from making our best effort to remain objective.

      Ideologies, moralizations, personal biases, and interpretations are going to come naturally. I get that subjectivity will always be a factor in the human experience, which is why erring on the side of objectivity should be so vital.

      I think Roosh may in fact be coming to terms with a certain degree of the nihilism inherent in Red Pill awareness. Lord knows I’ve written a lot about the Bitter Taste of the Red Pill.

      From A New Hope:
      http://therationalmale.com/2014/09/29/a-new-hope/

      Learn this now, you will never achieve contentment or emotional fulfillment in a blue pill context with red pill awareness.

      When I think on it now even Mystery became suicidal over his disillusionment with that girl Katya his obvious ONEitis (The Game) because he thought he could achieve his Blue Pill (old set of books) life goals with Red Pill awareness.

      I’m afraid to think what the outcome might be if Roosh ever developed ONEitis over a girl he believed would fulfill those Blue Pill hopes.

  18. Insanity @Glenn – “Because you validate and legitimize what every man hating feminist has ever said about you, because you make me ashamed to say I love men, and because your hatred and ugliness makes the world a lousy place to live.
    I could care less what you say about women. It’s what you insist upon saying about your own idiotic selves that depresses the hell out of me.”

    Lol, yeah Glenn. Man up and stop complaining already, you aren’t living up to insanity’s standards.

  19. @Forge

    It is remarkable how the first instinct in women is to accuse men of not living up to standards. I don’t even think they realize how often they do it, I think it falls in with their shit-test instinct. Women were literally put on this earth as genetically-designed nags.

  20. @zdroiod
    What’s her name gets access like a hooker, not like any frumpy random woman who wouldn’t get access.
    There’s a saying that hookers get paid not for the sex but to go away and not cause trouble. That’s her way in. She’s known or knows not to cause trouble. Version of preselection.
    And her self described naive 18 yr olds may be athletes, but she’s not getting top tier. Alpha isn’t a demographic, as has been said around here before. Maybe she did at some point, but highly doubt now, knowing how things go.

  21. @Jeremy

    The alpha filter is always on. Women never stop scanning the horizon for AF, regardless of how actionable a prospect is. Just like most men can’t help but white knight, ha.

  22. @Eduardo Corrochio

    Hey Ed, if you have something to say get off your high horse and say it. No one cares about the fantasy novel playing in your head.

    Do you even LARP bro?

  23. @Jack, Roosh has come to a point where it’s put up or shut up time. The answers he’s looking for are evident in his most recent post about questioning whether women add to a man’s quality of life.
    He’s only rehashing what I wrote about in Empathy, but it’s plainly obvious to me that he wants that empathy in spite of the women who wont live up to it for him.
    That to me says he’s looking for answers. He’s just coming to terms with what I wrote about women’s opportunistic vs men’s idealistic concepts of love and it’s getting under his skin because for the past decade his life has been about traveling to Brazil, northern and eastern Europe, meeting with women, running Game and writing books about it.
    What else does the guy do? Does he have a tight group of friends he hangs with? In every video it’s always an empty room in the background. We were just talking about how necessary it is for men to belong to a tribe of other men (ala Jack Donovan), where is that group for Roosh?
    For the past 5 months he’s been going on about how empty women are for him now. About how Game is just a tool he uses to get laid, and how he hates having to be a clown for them. He’s been going on about how his Game isn’t what it used to be. That sounds like he’s looking for answers.
    My guess is a lot of that soul searching is coming from the likes of Quintius Curtius (or whatever name he pulled from Gladiator) LARPing as YaReally coined it about some return to a romantic period where men were Men. All his spiritual soul seeking is tied up in that want for some kind of hope.
    He’s what, 36 now? Like I said before, he can’t go back now. He’s not going to return to DC and get a biotech job. He has no choice but go all in because the manosphere is his vocation. That’s all good, but there’s a certain bleakness in it too.

    ……………………………..

    Voicing disagreements with his philosophies is great, but why necessary to take personal attacks on the guy?

    E.g., Roosh appears solo on videos, therefore he’s a loser who doesn’t have any friends and doesn’t hang out with a cool ‘tribe’ [like I do]”.

    #1. I’m betting you have zero personal knowledge of the quantity/quality of Roosh’s friends. #2. What difference does it make? #3. If obnoxious boneheads like christian mcqueen are representative the type of cool tribe you’re referencing, well I think I’d pass on that.

    E.g. #Roosh is a loser because he’s 36 and doesn’t have a salaried corporate job that he can go back to, therefore he’s embarking on the neomasculinty programme out of desperation

    #1 What factual basis do you have to assert these speculations? Do you have access to his financial statements or any idea of the revenue he makes off of his current enterprises like ROK? #2 You’re aware, aren’t you, that he’s not married and/or has children or saddled down with loads of consumer shit like houses and cars? He’s not under any compulsion to be a wage slave/debt slave….i.e., he has freedom.

    E.g. Roosh’s life is bleak because his work is exclusively related to the manosphere and isn’t balanced out by some form of corporate work (I imagine you’re referring to something really cool and existentially rewarding like marketing corporate alcohol products)

    So lame it doesn’t even require further comment … hopefully such sentiments aren’t representative of an inevitable change of values that occurs with dads who’ve been married 15 years hit their 40’s.

    …So what’s your problem with Roosh and why take it to a personal level? Pretty ugly dude. I’ve never seen Roosh post, or say, anything negative about you or your site. In fact, the times he’s mentioned you or your website his comments have been only positive.

  24. @zdr01dz

    I’m not sure I agree with you but it’s great you don’t just toe the line.

    My first impression is that the motherhood instinct is a real and powerful thing, but that it’s state-dependant. Kind of like how a woman’s AF impulse doesn’t really kick in until she runs into a hypergamously worthy man.

    Being in that mothering state generally requires an instinctive sense that AF and BB are taken care of – i.e, her children are genetically valuable, and she has the resources to take care of them in addition to herself. When this stops being true she starts shifting priorities.

    That said, there does seem to be a sort of itch in the background there – some desire of unfulfilled motherhood that pops out in random ways if it’s not being fulfilled in ‘real’ motherhood. Things like cats, and random affection for cute things. But it stays that way – a sort of questing and dissatisfaction – unless motherhood becomes an actionable reality for her.

    In a similar way, a woman’s AF instinct is always ‘on’ in a way – a woman trying to look sexy and shit-testing men, or even random inane things like trying to stop fat-shaming if she’s fat, are all ways that this manifest when she doesn’t have an actual, available AF opportunity. When she does have such a prospect, it becomes a very different sort of response – an immediate, urgently sexual one.

    My personal experience in my age cohort (25-35, say) is that women have a kind of random, masturbatory itch for motherhood that isn’t strong enough to change their actual behaviors or priorities for the most part. They want kids in some random, vague sort of way but don’t try to lock down a husband young, don’t develop motherhood skills, or do anything rational that will help them attain the goal of motherhood. It’s really kind of similar to how AFC’s say they want sex with women and then masturbate to porn instead of doing anything about it.

    Maybe we as a society are all just too comfortable to make ourselves worthy of our instincts. Present company possibly excluded.

  25. The red pill is quite bitter, but how bad is its after-taste? I haven’t found it to be so bitter in the long run, or perhaps my own viewpoint has simply shifted to fully appreciate sweetness that I did not appreciate so much before. You can’t appreciate dessert if you’re eating sweets all the time, you have to eat the bitter foods if you ever expect to have a worthy palate. There is a degree of nihilism that comes and goes in the digestion of facts. I won’t deny that, because it’s fact and there are simply too many comments and blog posts in the manosphere that attest to it.

    When you give up on fantasy, especially the deeply embedded fantasies, it’s a painful process. However, the end result of that introspection isn’t a lack of passion, as most men rather innately fear. The end result is the capability of appreciating what is truly good about humanity. That state is not passionless and pointless, it is illuminating.

    I think most PUA’s and sex-tourist bloggers stop digesting the red pill as soon as they get some semblance of control over their sex lives. Why wouldn’t they? They’re finally getting the dessert they always felt they deserved. The easy thought process would be, “Well, what more do I need?” From this perspective, Rollo’s site appears to be a ridiculously over-complicated analysis of something they feel they’ve already figured out. This is easily exemplified in the occasional comments Rollo gets from PUAs who comment here accusing us of over-thinking things. You’ve all seen what I’m talking about.

    I believe Roosh has probably been in that same category for a while, but was too polite/smart to say anything. He’s probably regarded Rollo’s writing as academic and esoteric, rather than simply further digestion of honest observation from a RP perspective. He’s likely hitting a point where he needs further digestion but has already decided he knows all he needs to know about women. That’s a bad place to be because there’s more bitter that needs to be digested, but the person in it has already decided that they’ve had enough of the bitter and they expect they can fully appreciate the rest that life has to offer (when they really can’t).

  26. Motherhood discussion aside, I think the real take-away from this post is the idea that YOU need to find YOUR path to realize the better YOU. While the instructions presented here over the course of several years helps you understand what’s at stake and gives you an idea of what’s possible, they are not the plan. They’re tools you can use in the way that seems best, but they are just tools for enlightenment, not the enlightenment themselves.

    Once you start finding your way, you realize how specific and tailored your progression is. The path you’re blazing to a better version of yourself cannot be reproduced, because it is 100% a function of finding your own way. I can’t follow Rollo’s exactly because that is an outgrowth of his own personality, worldview, past experiences, age and life situation. Trying to force-fit or impose that onto my life as a plan would be a mistake. Only I can find my way, armed with the right tools and the encouragement of others who worked to turn their own lives around.

    Not only that, this post clearly demonstrates the value of working for something you believe in, vs. being given the answer without the heavy lifting. And you really can’t take short cut here; the heavy lifting is absolutely essential to the final progress in your life. If you don’ t go through that process, you really won’t value any beneficial changes you start to see. Which one would you really value in your life?

  27. “If the world would be a place where women cannot go out on the streets alone without falling victim to violence, the men could get a lot more from them without any need for clowning.”

    There’s plenty of such places in the world. Men escape them massively to do shitty migrant jobs in safer, richer countries. And the only woman they can get at home is who their parents arrange a marriage to. Before that, they have to have sex with donkeys.

  28. ” but most of what I write is the result of piecing together the related experiences of other men.”

    A service we are eternally grateful for RT….really.
    I’ve gotten 4 of my boys on TRM and red pill thought, to be honest it has made many things clear about being a man in an increasingly gynocentric environment, helping to reclaim manhood, and setting us on a path where we have/develop our own tools to control our circumstances, especially, our relationships with women.
    You are definitely a pillar…and TRM is a place….almost like the room in the Matrix when Neo first meets Morpheus, and, then when he tries to explain the computer generated dream world…a place where unplugging, one of the hardest things especially in a feminine prime order, very hard.

    Nuff said, now keep putting the pieces together. Winter is coming….

  29. It’s been over a year since I started reading Rational Male and it’s posts like these that keep me coming back. This mentality is what let me soak in RP rather than rejecting its quirky presentation and poor PR straight off the bat as I almost did. Many of the RP principles, as I soon discovered, could be seen in action through subjective experience. Hell, most I already knew were true or was already following and just hadn’t noticed. Others didn’t apply or won’t work in my situation though I now see the merit of thinking that way. A select few ideas don’t jive with me at all, often because they seem generalized to the point they aren’t applicable even in highly adapted form, or would require giving up something I deem central to my identity.

    This experience led me to conclude that RP is not a solution; it’s a toolbox or framework to help build a personalized answer; a program so to say. The concepts lain down on blogs such as this or on the subred help build a mental point of origin that is both realistic and tuned to the individual; custom code. It improves an existing framework by testing new forms of input and refactoring bad code when the outcome isn’t desirable. But it doesn’t solve any problem that wouldn’t have otherwise been dealt with – RP insight has led to better outcomes but suboptimal performance doesn’t mean absence of performance unless the margin for error is unrealistically narrow (RP often says it is but it doesn’t match my experience). Thus RP is more like a system upgrade intended to optimize performance rather than a full re-install. Or at least it was in my case.

    All that said, I actually don’t agree with TRM all that often, which may seem illogical at first. Some might jump and shout “but it’s true at heart”, and I’d agree. Sort of. I’m a practical person and generalized or abstracted ideas don’t apply well to any given circumstance. One needs an additional layer of processing to filter information based on countless, highly specific and situational variables, and since circumstances in my life are rather specific (in contrast to 8bn human beings), not all of the concepts described here are “true enough” to be useful. In some cases RP thought constructs even net negative outcomes and have to be sanitized – or flat out ignored.

    This is another point where many RPers (especially in the subred) are quick to jump and say that’s due to lack of practice, experience, SMV, etc. That may be true and probably is from their point of view or that of many others. But we aren’t all dedicated to the same things at the same level and sometimes gaining experience or practice is just not worth the effort when there are more important goals (which I set myself and therefore value higher than other people’s well-meant advice).

    Would someone now argue that my priorities are misaligned – which often happens both IRL and online – I quietly move away. My priorities are set to suit my life and I take full responsibility for any outcome or consequence thereof. It isn’t perfect but I’m tired of idealism, perfectionism, and even the idea one has to measure up on equal scales. It’s proven far easier for me to just run with what works best than ‘get it right’, which never seems to happen anyways. The underlying principles have to hold true. Those are what RP adds in value. The specifics are different in every case and have to be computed on the fly.

    TRM accounts for people with my mindset very well. I don’t like every post but I’m allowed to not like it. Hell, if I were inclined, I’m even allowed to make my case in the comments. I don’t since my situation is very specific and I doubt my point of view would truly contribute (those new to RP would be confused by seemingly contrarian arguments and those already well established have already built acustom framework). Still I can profit from RP advice and ideas and use those to improve both my life and the lives of those around me. It is, all in all, a net positive – that’s what I truly value.

  30. @Rollo

    Does a lion fall into a nihilistic depression or does he just kill the gazelle?

    Observing reality should have emotion attached to it? The core of any emotional pain is the inability to accept reality.

    These discussion remind me why I became a Taoist.

  31. Poor Roosh I doubt whether he actually believed in the Redpill/the truth about women.
    Just look at his writing/whining =where is the woman who would love me .

    At 36 (he still young) he is still clueless.
    Here is the fact:

    Women love conditionally whether it is for Alphas or Betas.

  32. @Thelien: “There’s plenty of such places in the world. Men escape them massively to do shitty migrant jobs in safer, richer countries. And the only woman they can get at home is who their parents arrange a marriage to.”

    There is truth in that, sure. But who do you think do they fuck after coming here and if the make it: how do they do it? On the other hand there are girls in those countries too and as Rollo says, they might not fuck me or you, but they will fuck someone. It will be the men who got power there.

    Here in Germany we get a lot of news of born Europeans going to join IS/ISIS, even muslim converts. And also news of young muslim girls (16-17) leaving their families and the West behind to become the third wife of some IS warlord. The “western” side in Ukraine is filled with war-tourists from western Europe who prefer war over boring jobs. The Russian side is probably not that different.

    I believe @Jeremy is right here: “Yes, the FI runs deep, and is quite old. The myth of a patriarchal “Easy street” for men is just that, a myth sold to women to make them fear men.”

    There is and there never was an Easy Street for men, especially at the lower end of the hierarchy. But it remains a fact the biggest of all superiorities of men over women is in matters of violent force. And while women kept all their tools to counter it (covert communication, using emotions, even being emotional to cover the motives, to name a few) men gave up on their biggest strength for the sake of civilization. From my experience I think men can get much better at covert communication and emotional manipulation (game) and still “win” at their game. But the issue goes much deeper: What if the whole modernity is a construct of the FI and the supporting betas? What if that often moaned spiritual emptiness in modernity is not a necessity but the unnamable feeling something is missing? Something manly is missing? Something wild and violent and aggressive in all this insanity of tameness?

  33. so I guess you deleted my comment in response to your criticisms of roosh… funny because I just read something somewhere on here where you indicated you don’t censor anything on here.. interesting.

  34. @Kazaul

    I don’t since my situation is very specific and I doubt my point of view would truly contribute (those new to RP would be confused by seemingly contrarian arguments and those already well established have already built acustom framework).

    How often have you seen the specific used to illuminate a connection in the general? You should by now realize that all perspectives contributed have potential use in explaining reality because no single person can perceive all.

  35. @Tilikum,

    The lion wasn’t raised to be a sheep first.

    Ever see zoo animals get released to the wild?

    They die.

  36. @Jeremy – Oh shut up. Revealing “lies” is not a moral endeavor? Stop playing semantic games to avoid the truth. This entire movement has a moral underpinning – improving the lives of men by revealing who they are lied to and suppressed by a society run amok with FI informed ideas.

    Don’t argue about basics like this, it only reveals your biases.

  37. @insanity @Glenn

    There’s an unplugging process, and the 5 stages are involved. 4 of them are negative. That’s just reality. So, yes, insanity, you’re going to run into a lot of Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression in forums where people are unplugging and rearranging their mental furniture. With some shining exceptions like YaReally (who needs a compilation category somehow, Rollo), most people here are still in the changing our programming stage. BTW, poke some people while they’re in these stages and they’ll bite. In other news: the world is round.

    With that said, here’s where the Manosphere has it all over feminism: it has an underlying ethos of self-improvement and fealty to reality that’s designed to push people OUT of the cycle, not pull them endlessly in. Like a Protein World Beach Body, though, it requires a lot more than just taking the stuff in the can. It takes a while.

    It’s simple, but NOT easy.

    I’m not a fan of safe spaces, so if you’re cool with being bit now and again, have at it. Treat it like discussing on a political site. Or, you can try to offer folks an immediately helpful hand. Some will take it, others won’t. I think one of the things you’re trying to say is:

    [[Even with all the principles you’re learning… after all the warm tunnels at the end of the light, there can be a warm light at the end of the tunnel. It will shine in an echo of your own light. Which needs to be set in a solid frame.]]

    Some of that has in fact been said in different ways, here and elsewhere in the Manosphere. People can read, decide, and discard what they don’t want, don’t like, or can’t use right now. That’s freedom.

  38. @DeNihilist “Men are built to fuck.”

    Granted, but high culture men, I believe, do not consider banging chicks the end all and be all. Evo psych is great at explaining animal nature, but culture distinguishes men from each other, with lesser men closer to the animals and women in mode of living. That is to say, people have a socioeconomic gravity, a culture-level side effect that conditions the social environment. I don’t want to just fuck at the drop of a hat. I think sex with women is a foundation and stepping stone to a larger world, but not in these times. I think better men are built to do more than fuck as an ultimate goal, but better men in theory are maladapted to the IMF tax farm. Are men built to fuck? Yes, but so what. All men are not built to be hedonists and wild or liberated women only accept #1 sperm, so how men are able to have sex becomes irrelevant. If men won’t be the law in there own lives, if we defer to the police, if women don’t respect men, are men built to fuck? I think the reality is more complicated than the overwhelming instinct to rut, or evolution could not be progressive and I would not be typing this shit online. Men who fuck anything should get weeded out for being stupid, but then again, its all about what centralizes power to the establishment vs. what does not. Releasing instincts with the printing press in not the environment that developed instincts and primitive psychology in the first place. I think AWALT is much more tenable than AMALT.

  39. @Glenn

    Revealing “lies” is not a moral endeavor?

    No, it isn’t. Morality is a specific system of values held by individuals right on up to whole civilizations. That system of values can only be based on human perception of their own reality. Since the FI and the lies propagated by it have existed for centuries through multiple civilizations, yet moral systems have changed drastically, I’m forced to conclude that such lies transcend moral systems and are in fact closer to biologically programmed deceptions. It is not too dissimilar to specific mating displays that some animals have that serve no other purpose other than procreation. Hence, the “lies” revealed are lies that transcend moral systems and do not fall into the category as “moral” or “immoral”. All that is done in red-pill land is the revelation of the biological truth (created by god or evolved, whichever, doesn’t matter) that you live under.

    No one is consciously perpetuating these lies, therefore calling anyone “immoral” for telling people such things is similar to accusing a dog of being a mammal.

  40. @droidz – I think I see where you’re coming from with regard to motherhood. But the ego-investment in this belief is a facet of seeing things through a BP lens, it is a BP/BB trap…in my opinion.
    I don’t think you can delineate motherhood from AF/BB, (a need is subset of a want); that instinct exists as a base setting and women at a biological, social level use AF/BB to realise a situation(s) where this instinct can be expressed.
    But it cannot exist outside AF/BB, at least I don’t think so.

  41. @CaveClown

    Are you suggesting that the commenters here are (or were raised as) sheep?

    The majority of the sphere was built for betas and lower sure, but I gotta think that when it’s all in front of you and you gotta make a choice, even the most overthinking brainsmoked Gamma chooses to heed his survival instinct.

    If those men do not possess the desire to live then they should do the world a favor and choose harakiri. Let better men minister the resources they are just wasting with a mediocre existence.

  42. @Rollo

    “When I think on it now even Mystery became suicidal over his disillusionment with that girl Katya his obvious ONEitis (The Game) because he thought he could achieve his Blue Pill (old set of books) life goals with Red Pill awareness.
    I’m afraid to think what the outcome might be if Roosh ever developed ONEitis over a girl he believed would fulfill those Blue Pill hopes.”

    Ya, this is a real danger with just learning pickup/game and leaving it at that. It’s easy to trick yourself into thinking you’ve fixed more than you actually have. In a way it’s almost like investing yourself in a BP marriage, throwing your heart and soul into the effort and then watching as your perfect life fails to manifest.

    Like @Jeremy just said, “I think most PUA’s and sex-tourist bloggers stop digesting the red pill as soon as they get some semblance of control over their sex lives. Why wouldn’t they? They’re finally getting the dessert they always felt they deserved. The easy thought process would be, “Well, what more do I need?” From this perspective, Rollo’s site appears to be a ridiculously over-complicated analysis of something they feel they’ve already figured out. This is easily exemplified in the occasional comments Rollo gets from PUAs who comment here accusing us of over-thinking things. You’ve all seen what I’m talking about.

    This explains why Roosh keeps on asserting that this blog is just repackaging Roissy in academic language so as to ‘appeal to a different audience.’ Like this is just pickup for pretentious people, lol. So now he’s planning on creating some sort of ‘higher purpose’ type stuff to fill in the void, without realizing that that’s what Rollo’s been trying to inspire on an individual level for a long time here.

  43. @rbrtolson “There’s an important distinction to be made between the search for truth and the search for meaning. These two have interplay, but they are by no means the same.”

    Profound. I had not consciously taken it that far. Thanks. Adaptation means living with the truth that is most local to what and how you are, at the expense of other truths not actually in play. I don’t have it all worked out, but (universal?) truth and (personal?) meaning/mission/value definitely not coterminous. I think it has to do with instability of competiton per evolution.

  44. Re: dt

    What’s with all these people accusing Rollo of deleting comments lately? Dude, scroll up. Your comment is right there. Sometimes these things take a minute to show up. Same with assertions that he’s following a profit motive. Have you tried to give the guy your money? Good luck.

    I’d start to wonder about Jeremy’s assertion that people are trying to spread FUD here…if they were a bit more effective about it.

  45. “You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s Hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.”

    Stamp this on the foreheads of all those coming here whining that Game serves no purpose if it doesn’t guarantee male 5’s will net 9’s and 10’s.

    It’s about knowing the true rules of the game, folks. Make of it what you will but you won’t be blundering into pitfalls unawares.

    “My approach to Game is defined in much broader terms than simply ‘how to get girls’, and I think for the better part of the manosphere the understanding of Game has evolved beyond rote memorization of scripts and plans.”

    I take nothing away from Mystery, but when I read The Mystery Method and then a lot of related PUA stuff, I remember thinking to myself:

    “Really? This is like studying for a second frickin’ career.”

    I then began reading the deeper philosophies, the one’s concentrating on changing one’s core, and that seemed to make a whole lot more sense to me, from both a comfort and pragmatic standpoint.

    “I’ve mentioned on several posts and threads as to why I won’t ever do that (except for blatant spamming), but in a nutshell it’s my fundamental belief that the validity of any premise or idea should be able to withstand public debate.”

    True, but it flies in the face of much of the current social zeitgeist, which has very ‘important’ ideas which they refuse to put at risk by exposing them to rigorous (or any) examination and debate.

    Again, I understand you are not interested in politics, but understand that politics is interested in you because you desire public debate of their Faberge’ ideas.

    “It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.”

    Despite what I wrote above, I thoroughly get this. It is a real and present danger, from people either wishing to push different agendas, or poison the Red Pill, or both.

    I wrote to Roosh under a different name a few of months ago, distressed when I saw ROK publish more and more articles which were trying to shove all sorts of conspiracy twaddle and Left wing boilerplate under the Red Pill umbrella. I warned him he was in danger of being infiltrated by various flavors of fanatic with an alternative agenda, including SJW.

    He gave me a listen, even offered to publish my letter objecting to a particularly egregious example, but his editorial board talked him out of it, one of them misrepresenting what I wrote in his email.

    (Shrug)

    I stand by my prediction that ROK and sites like it will be taken over by cranks. Even Roissy seems to be dipping into the Occupy Wallstreet mindless agitprop waters more and more even as he keeps pushing the racialism stuff.

    I did not read what Roosh wrote that you reference, but then again, I have not visited ROK for months now.

    All in all, the above explains why I appreciate this site.

  46. @Tilikum “If those men do not possess the desire to live then they should do the world a favor and choose harakiri. Let better men minister the resources they are just wasting with a mediocre existence.”

    Any guy who feels low out there, it might be because you have superior value that the sheeple do NOT want you to realize. 38th Law of Power: Think as you like but behave like others. Don’t develop people skills: develop sheeple skills. The autoimmune defense of sheeple is incredible. Moving on…

    Better men are either given a big share of resources by nature of the environment, or they take it by their own personal natures in action (on average because life is not fair). Now if we are designing a new law and order in the void to come for real, a turning point, then it is no longer moot theory. My point is that nature is the ultimate judge of better by definition. We can only try and deserve nature’s privilege the most. Builders must first be conquerors or they have feet of clay and are not nececcarily better overall. That is why women do not respect us and we use psychological rather than physical force more natural to us men: we play the woman’s game because the tax farm gives her power to play by her native rules. Consistently better men conquer and govern. One day, the shit will get fun. For now, let the resources be mismanaged. ONSs are a mismanagement of resources if we are not selfish opportunists, and we should be. I will not hold up this order or make it better. However, in a turning point, I will do my best to be judge, jury, and executioner.

  47. Tilikum,

    Yes, sheep.

    I think most men are either too far invested in being a sheep, or just have no idea how to embrace their masculine instincts. (Never taught to hunt)

    The majority of the rest will succumb to a society that discourages the taking of that gazelle.

    The true alphas will rise to the top, the rest…won’t.

    A lion embraces being a lion because it doesn’t know any different. The same could be said for sheep…or a lion raised as a sheep.

  48. If rollo was deleting comments, he would probably be smart enough to also delete the comment accusing him of deleting your comment.

    *Rolls eyes*

  49. Great read as usual Rollo.

    If however, I could give one piece of advice for your writings based upon my own experiences. I have often seen (and participated in) “Ideological” discussions which refer to “Truth”. We all have different versions of “the truth” and I think you do a potential dis-service to Red-Pill when you use that term. it can certainly appear to be more dogmatic.

    I believe Red-Pill is based more upon fact than “truth” and it would do a great deal of positives to frame the points in that light by simply substituting the word “fact” in place of “truth”.

  50. @Danger,

    Your comment is actually worthy of another whole blog. Consider that claiming something is a “fact” is perhaps the strongest claim one could make about something you would say/claim. I understand and agree with your point, and I’m guilty myself of using the word “truth” in ways I shouldn’t (even in this same thread). But if I were to claim fact, the burden of proof goes up significantly (at least to my mind). Such claims would make this sort of on-my-water-breaks-commentary nigh impossible, because I’d spend more time sourcing my “facts” than discussing.

    1. @Tilikum
      “The core of any emotional pain is the inability to accept reality.”
      That is still something I am struggling with even now.

  51. @Rollo
    “Game is only going to be as liberating for a man in as far as he’s willing to accept it in terms of his own circumstance.”
    Went to a three day dance over the weekend. I am changing slowly. I have noticed that within my life and how I am go about doing things. A lot of people I used to hang around aren’t and weren’t friends. I also realize that I try to stay away from your blog or an a phone or by a computer. When I am around other people. Doing self work is real hard.
    I noticed a huge issue this morning.
    One I refuse to admit how wrong I am about some deep held beliefs. Which just increases me nightmares.
    I also do not understand the fundamentals in carrying a conversation in person that I am uncomfortable about.
    So I am going back out and working on that today.
    I appreciate your time.

  52. Just a note ’cause I skimmed and saw the “using PUA to try to fill blue pill goals” thing…I gotta think on that some more but at first glance I can’t say I disagree with that.

    It actually scratches the itch that I have with a lot (a LOT…LOTTTTTTT) of the Manosphere especially but also PUA/TRP (Mystery’s a good example), but mostly the Manosphere…guys approach it without fully swallowing the red pill. They do all this stuff and learn all this shit and bang all these girls but they’re still holding on with finger-tip grasp to the blue pill idea that after they do all this they’re going to find that one true unicorn to settle with.

    That’s why they rant about how the women are all magical unicorns in other countries and if you just go there THAT’S where you’ll find the unicorn! Those women will be DIFFERENT! You won’t have to game them you won’t have to attract them you can slack off on all this stuff you’ve learned to do once you find that one unicorn!

    It’s clinging to something that never existed in the first place and Roosh sounds like he’s reaching the point where he’s realizing “shit, I can’t find a unicorn…” So his plan is to somehow MAKE unicorns by trying to make civilization go back to a period where he thinks women were all unicorns because that’s how movies and TV say women used to be.

    The difference for a guy like me or Tyler is that we looked at the matrix and said “ok, we’re not GOING back. If this is reality then we’re going to figure out how to work INSIDE this reality”. So Tyler has 2 kids and a baby mama but isn’t legally married and his LTR brings girlfriends for him and her to threesome and lets him go fly around the world fucking other girls and he has multiple girlfriends etc. Because he’s decided the traditional LTR was based on incorrect ideas and he’s trying a new way of doing things. Maybe it’ll work, maybe it’ll blow up in his face, who knows, but he’s trying something different that aligns with the red pill reality he’s seen.

    I’m the same way, I have no interest in an LTR because I fully understand what they’re about and their dynamics and the pros and cons instead of having rose-colored glasses on. I know that even if I find a really cool chick, it’ll still be work and we’ll have rough times and good times and she’ll have some flaws and ideally we make it thru it all but it’s not going to be some walk in the park magic unicorn girl who floats down from the heavens and then we just live happily ever after. Even if I find an amazing chick there is a chance that if I slack off and let myself become shitty (stop setting goals for myself, just sit on the couch watching reruns on TV etc.) she’ll lose attraction for me and bail. So I know that if I get into an LTR I’ll have to still keep my shit together. There’s not some unicorn that’s just going to be flawless from the start and unconditionally love me no matter what. That’s a blue pill goal/dream. It’s a myth.

    Does that mean it can’t be relatively “easy” with the right girl? Of course not, as long as I screen for a quality chick who’s on the same page as me we should have a good healthy relationship, as long as I accept that there will still be points that require work and I won’t get to just rest on my laurels and quit being awesome. Part of why I don’t want to get into an LTR is that since I know they’re going to require work anyway, like I have to still stay awesome in an LTR just like when I’m single, why not be single and get the benefit of a variety of poon for the same amount of effort lol

    My buddies tell me about their LTR problems and I just shake my head thinking “if you had stuck to the red pill principles instead of slacking off, you wouldn’t be having this problem”.

    So I can enjoy the lifestyle and enjoy the process, because I gave up on the blue pill ideal of “2.5 kids, mortgage, white picket fence, legally married wife who dotes on me and never leaves me and stands by my side thru thick and thin” etc. I might decide I want kids one day but if I do it will be outside of legal marriage structure since that’s insane for a dude to agree to, and it’ll be with a woman who I’ve screen for bi-tendencies and/or non-jealousy where I’ll be able to still fool around if I’m off on a business trip or have a fuckbuddy on the side etc with no problems.

    That’s why I watch everything Tyler puts out about relationships, ’cause he’s exploring having kids while banging around etc. while other guys are crying about how “women have chaaaaanged waaaaaahhh I want the ooooold wayyyy!! 🙁 🙁 🙁 why can’t it be the old waaaayyy wahhhh”. Same with Blackdragon and all his stuff about mLTRs. And recently Adam Lyons made the news with some interesting views on being in an LTR with 2 chicks (ya ya cuckold bla bla be like Bruce Lee “absorb what is useful, discard what is not” I liked his point that “people say it’ll fuck the kid up but most kids these days are raised by single parents in two households who hate eachother and we have 3 loving parents all there for him”) Even MGTOWs (the ones who date) have some good ideas on having adamant boundaries/rules they don’t allow women to get away with crossing because their freedom is more important to them than having a girl around.

    And who knows maybe one day I’ll be contributing a “how to have a one-sided oLTR where you can have kids with a chick and fuck around on her and she’s cool with it” guide as I gain my own experience.

    Am I the ideal? No of course not, but I’m approaching Roosh’s age and have none of the angst and bitterness he and his forum members have. And Tyler is Roosh’s age and is skipping through life like he’s living on a fucking care bear rainbow lol Swallow the red pill FULLY, accept reality as it FULLY is, and set yourself free…anything less is a trap.

    Are these guys’ and my own life going to turn out perfect? Who knows. But we’re at least trying to explore new paradigms instead of crying about how no one in the schoolyard will play the game with the rules we want them to play with.

    I think there are VERY few men who would be opposed to the idea of having a relationship where their GF is faithful to them, they get to bone all the side poon they want, they get to have kids with their quality GF, and they’re not tied into the legal system that incentivizes women to destroy their lives. …it’s just that no one really knows how to pull that off yet ’cause everyone is too in scarcity to try it out and see what happens.

    When you cling to your blue pill goals/dreams, you never really swallow the red pill. And when you hit 36 and realize the girls around you aren’t conforming to your blue pill goals because you refused to accept that things are different now and refuse to realign your perceptions and expectations, you get Roosh.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuYxp7-Au4E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FePJEfFzcaA

    Lotta wisdom in this movie that applies to a lot of levels of swallowing the Red Pill.

  53. @YaReally

    Again, much respect, Game recognize Game.

    Any success I’ve had in LTRs have come by finding a woman who:

    -observes the world as it is, and
    -doesn’t color her vision with “should be’s”
    -has as many options as I do (read: attractive)

    This has lead me to coming up with a profile that works pretty damn well.

    My only errors have centered around not understanding and calibrating to the distinctive effects that a woman aging even year to year have on her psyche.

    Best practices scenario to manage this seems to be higher T female, good genes/very pretty, raised in highly patriarchal systems (old school Mormonism as an example). These traits tend to stave off the adjustment cycles to her mental health so you arent dealing with her insecurities every ten min.

  54. @ Droid

    This…

    “You are correct that the world is changing and in many ways for the worse. When you and I were kids obesity was rare but today it’s out of control. The explanation for that and other problems like abortion is simple. Most of our instincts evolved to function optimally in a primitive environment. Anything that changes that environment such as technology necessarily leads to unexpected problems.”

    Does not address Rollo’s point about the abundance of abortions.

    If Motherhood is so strong an instinct, crowding out AF and BB, why would so many women decided to literally kill their golden ticket as you see it?

    If motherhood instincts are SO ingrained, so paramount, then how could it change so easily with an environmental change?

    “But none of that changes the fact that Motherhood is a strong, driving force for women.”

    But…you just WROTE something changed it!

    “That’s a given in all primates”

    As I understand it, many primates will kill or will allow infants to be
    killed,

    http://www.livescience.com/1518-female-chimps-kill-infants.html

    (just one article about the phenomenon)

    …and they frequently engage in deception in allowing other males to mate with them even when they have already mated.

    If motherhood is so primal and instinctual over other impulses, why do these behaviors exist?

    Have you ever read Sperm Wars? Do you know how the biology of reproduction works?

    NATURE seeks out the Alpha seed. The entire reproduction system is based on competition.

    If it was all about simply getting the woman pregnant, there would be no need for that competition. First sperm come, first served at it were.

    But it’s not.

    Which helps explain the prevalence of abortion.

    It’s not about being a mother. That’s EASY.

    It’s about being mother to the right offspring.

    “Motherhood is rooted in giving and sacrifice.”

    The point of RP, it seems, is that this is true, but the giving and sacrifice comes increasingly from the males. Women are asked for less and less.

    Was does a divorced mother “give up” as opposed to what she gains from said divorce?

    And as for your argument that a women automatically takes a huge SMV hit after birth:

    http://www.takepart.com/article/2015/01/26/mom-gets-shamed-instagram-bikini-selfie

    Perhaps it has more to do with attitude and behavior.

  55. “Changing Your Programming”

    Glenn’s “punch-down block/wires” device from the last thread is a good one to use to help describe what I see as the “common struggle” with regards to the Red Pill and the Manosphere.

    See, “taking the red pill” creates a situation where all of your current understandings of social dynamics is suddenly suspect: where you had a “1”, you now have a “0”, since what you thought was true/right previously is revealed to be false/wrong. “Freshly unplugged” guys get stuck and struggle in the chaos that ensues after swallowing their dose.

    Mai Frau came home recently after some work training recently blathering on about buddhism and a “cycle of change” thing they were rapping about in said training.

    It goes like this: You have something, “stability”, in the ideal state. But, there is some sort of input which strips away that stability, turns your “have” into “have not”, and you are knocked into a state of loss/grieving/troubleshooting. One looks to the past in order to gather insights which will help navigate through the chaos (“darkness” of “zero”) and get back to that ideal state of “1” again (the light). In the chaos, one eventually effectively troubleshoots problems, then looks to the future for a plan. Then, after exercising this plan, arrive ultimately back at the “1”, the “have”, or “stability”, once again.

    When blue-pill guys take the red pill, it takes their understandings and makes them obsolete. But, when it’s time for change, guys (generally) only address the wiring on the punch-block that deals with women. So, they leave the rest of the fucked-up wiring alone to focus on optimizing only the “women connections”. This is a widespread red-pill “flaw”, I believe, since most men would be far better off disregarding any and all “women connection” wiring on the punch block and focusing instead on the other “less than optimal” wiring.

    Take, for an example of a “problem”, a bachelor dude owning a single bed. Well, if you want to have girlies spending the night, you need a bigger bed, right? Well, no, but…

    Say a guy with a single bed has a problem with having women spend the night. It would seem that far too many manosphere/red pill guys are stuck on the “women connection” wiring, and consequently focus their efforts on manipulating women to spend the night, despite their single beds. In essence, they are slapping a band-aid on the problem, which isn’t women or their behaviors, but the single bed. Had they got a double, queen, or king-sized bed, having a woman sleep over might not be nearly as difficult. The resistance and discomfort would have been negated by the extra room. “Oh, no, she was a flake.” “What an entitled bitch to tell me I need a bigger bed. Whatever, Cinderella.” “Her “bigger bed” shit-test…”

    No amount of cocky/funny will make the bed get physically more accommodating.

    For some guys, the red-pill hits with a harder buzz: they nuke their lives and are freaked-out by the vacant punch-down block. In their haste to recover some functionality, they scramble to figure out which wire goes where and, reactively, end up making many of the same “old” connections in haste. But now, instead, “all calls” are being routed through the “women department” and “women connections” of the network. That is, these type of men sculpt their new lives to accommodate “more” women connectivity, new pussy acquisition, and PUA prowess exclusively, and the “women connections” are over-trafficked as a result. That is to say, many guys focus on women far too much for their own good, and it detracts from their true overall potential.

    In my case, the red-pill caused me to initially yank the “women wires” on my “punch-block” that is my life. So, I messed around in the field. It didn’t take long to have cause for re-evaluation: I never had much problem getting laid. So, my problem wasn’t women, it was the quality of the women I “felt” were acceptable/tolerable/desirable. The problem wasn’t women (entirely), the problem was me, and my underestimation of my SMV.

    Once I had the concepts hypergamy, FI, SMV, and AF/BB confirmed and cemented in my head by my past experiences aligning to match current field experience, and with the luxury of my new knowledge’s filter applied to both, I was able to see true root causes. So, I yanked the rest of the wiring off the punch-block. I nuked my life and re-created from scratch. I reached over and hit the power key to reboot and scrub-out hidden sub-routines bogarting my resouces.

    *computer quiets briefly, screen goes black, “things get simple”, until “blinkety-blink… boi-oi-oing” — the computer comes back to life*

    …like a fresh OS install: old operating program, gone; new operating program, initializing.

    When I “yanked the wires of the punch-block”, and nuked my former life, I took the appropriate time to route all calls through ME, not women. The current connectivity is optimized THROUGH ME, the first, heavier-gauge-than-the-rest, wire on the block. Then all wires following are in order of call frequency (importance in my life). Call it “narcissistic” or “solipsistic” if you will, but I am the engineer and the receptionist of the business of my life, so it should only be wired how I want it wired.

    Before re-wiring, while still at the “blank punch-block” stage, I had to determine what’s important TO ME. Whereas, in the previous wiring, I was the least important, and media/marketing/women/mommy/culture/society/current trends and anyone/anything else whose inputs were truly unimportant were more important than my own personal desires and viewpoints. I had been androgynized and marginalized repeatedly and continuously.

    I had never actually prompted myself to consider what was, indeed, important to me. So, I asked myself: What do you like? How do you go about facilitating more of what you like into your lifestyle? And various introspective questions in order to troubleshoot and to ultimately visualize what my punch-block should look like, as opposed to how it is wired now (then).

    So, in order to make my dreams a reality, I had to first dream. Then, once I had dreamed, I can pick which dream I like, and, address my reality (my current punch-block, sometimes called “the matrix: prison for your mind”) by first “unplugging”, or, “yanking the wires off my punch-block”. Then, once at that “0”, in that instability/chaos of change, I could move towards stability, having that “1” again, by building from scratch; by punching-down new connections based on the schematics of my dream. By doing so in that order, my dream is now my new reality.

    Too vague? I’ll give another example of “trouble shooting”.

    On one particular date I found myself more entertained by my own thoughts and completely bored with the chick I was with, so, I was daydreaming about what she would look like in my garden, in a bikini, coming over to give me a kiss, face smeared with a little mud…

    Then I realized that I didn’t have a garden, and I wanted one, eventually, or, the-sooner-the-better.

    “Are you even listening?!! You aren’t even listening!”
    V: “No, I wasn’t listening. Do you have a garden?”
    “WHAT!!?” NO!! Hell, no. Talk about ‘ghetto’. Tss…”
    V: *figured as much and was back off daydreaming again before chick even finished “Hell, no”*

    I realized that my “ideal woman” would garden in a garden I didn’t have. My “ideal woman” would want to sleep in my bed, and all I had was a single.

    So, I pursued having a garden. I “obtained for myself a queen-sized bed”. I slept in my queen-sized bed alone for a while (gardened for myself), until I asked a [different] chick….

    V: “Why do you have two jobs?”
    Mai Frau: “…and get a little place, out in the suburbs, though I would prefer a bit further ‘out’ – around 4 acres or something I could afford – you know: a place where I could have a little garden and have some room to…”
    V: “What are you doing Wednesday night?”
    Mai Frau: “HuH?!! Whu… (pauses) Why?”
    V: “I want to show you something.”
    Mai Frau: “Uh… (pauses) Well… I’ll have to see, to be honest: I might have to work at job number two.”
    V: “Well, let me know. I want to take you on a little road trip.”
    Mai Frau: “To where?”
    V: “Awesomesville. Doesn’t matter, just try to break away for an evening adventure.”

    Turns out, she got her ass in the car Wednesday night: we drove 2 1/2 hours to my place. I didn’t tell her about my queen-sized bed, or my garden, I SHOWED them to her.

    Blew.
    Her.
    Mind.

    To this day, she praises me with a lot of womanese that decodes, essentially, into: “I’ve never met a man like you before, and I’m pleasantly surprised by the ambient level of wetness my pussy maintains”. Which, is nice, considering I had been exactly the type she would’ve been disappointed in previously (but continued to fuck anyway, until something better hit on her).

    Presto! The new punch-block works. Okay, there are a few sparks and some wrong connections here-and-there that need some tweaking, but for the most part, the change is a vast improvement over the “old network” of comparing myself to the outside world. That “external validation” shit really sucks, and is ultra-depressing, as all we are shown by media are virtually impossible models for an average person to aspire to, if not flat-out toxic and counter-productive models.

    For blue-pill guys gulping down the red pill, it can be tough and chaotic because we all resist internal-validation because of our life-long conditioning. We think that being self-oriented means “narcissistic” or “selfish” or any of those shaming/guilting sorts of labels that keep us selfless. And, by being selfless, we lack personal direction. We resist change in attempts to retain the favor of our present society/culture/peers. We avoid changing what truly needs changing in our lives because we can’t fully break from our conditioning.

    And, if our change isn’t hindered by merely social conditioning, it’s hindered by money, politics, church, buzzfeeds, and all manner of misperception of importance of the non-important. “You just HAVE to put the wires here and here, it’s just what people DO, you HAVE to.”

    Well, Thoreau would tell you that you don’t “NEED” to do much of anything beyond “stay warm”.

    Life is only as simple or as hard as a newly-dosed red pill guy makes it.

    But, many guys keep all the spam, noise, counter-productivity, and all the rest of the distraction (chaos) on their new versions of the punch-block that is their lives. It’s a common issue with the manosphere, in my mind, as it’s so woman-centric. We don’t fully strip away the bullshit and get down to the simplest terms of what needs changing in our collective lives: good women this and bitches that, personality this and psychology that, green people this and yellow people that, money buys this and money buys that, this meme this and that blog that.

    Well, try taking “Men V. Women” out of the equations. When it comes to women, the only, and I mean the ONLY fucking question that matters to a guy is:

    Is she adversarial, or cooperative?

    Some guys call it the “DTF” question, others want to know “Can she cook?” It’s the same question. Good, or bad? With me, or, against me? Does she have an agenda that includes me, or, is it an agenda strictly focused on herself? Spit or Swallow?

    Heh, about “spit or swallow”… spitters are adversarial, chicks that swallow are cooperative. Spitters create a big fuss, kill the mood, run around freaking out about the load (that they are actually savoring more the longer they keep it in their mouth, but don’t want to implicate themselves as a “slut” for actually enjoying the taste.) whilst they look for a place to spit. Whereas, if they simply swallowed, the “trauma” would’ve been over in a matter of seconds. But no, they want to make a big deal to extort some sort of trophy or award for their “suffering through a blow job”. On the other hand, the cooperative chick would give a blow job to give pleasure, and understands ejaculation comes with ejaculate, so in attempt enhance the pleasure given, take the shot of man-magic for the team, and keeps the pleasin’ mood intact instead of using the situation to further their own agenda.

    Newly red-pill men, in their “new” quest for vagina, overcomplicate matters instead of laying them bare. They aspire to more vagina, and in doing so open themselves up to a variety of exposures that makes the risk far-and-away beyond the reward (ie: the cost of clubbing, STD’s, rape charges, condom failure, stalker exes, etc.) Their models are PUA’s and the like, and aspire to McDonald’s numbers on their bedposts, believing that more pussy = better pussy; when in reality, the best pussy a guy will ever have is the one that monogamously wraps itself around his one cock for several months to an extent that it accommodates itself perfectly like a glove that feels like 1000 tiny angels’ tongues licking your finger when you “put it on”. Pussies change. They get huge to let out babies, and shrink for little-dicked dudes. Look it up, it’s true. But no, guys go out and emulate that blonde bitch that so aptly personifies so many american women: Goldilocks; and try to find the perfect pussy. This one’s too wet, this one’s too dry, this one’s just right…

    …but it’s too loose. It is attached to a chick that talks too much. Tits are too small. She just laid there. Next!

    If guys are doing this, just imagine the twisted mess of wires that a woman’s punch-block must be!

    This cock’s too big, this one’s too small, this one’s just right… but he doesn’t have a job. This guy has too much hair, this guy has none, this guy is just right… but he smells funny.

    Guys that are truly perfect for them are “not suitable” if Cosmo tells them so, so, next! “I get along with him great, he fucks me perfectly, and even changes what my idea of what I think “perfectly” is, routinely. But, my friends don’t like him, and, he is a pizza driver, so, next! I know, I’ll keep him around until I find something better!” Notice “something” better? Not “someone” better? Women are just as fucked, if not more so. Consider feminists: adversarial, or, cooperative? Since they’ve been adversarial, they’ve had bad experiences with men, so they go MORE adversarial? “I hate myself, so men hate me, so I hate myself, and men too, because it must be their fault, right? Right, WOMEN?!”

    So, it’s on the Men of the world to change anything. We change by leading. We lead by example. Finger-pointing at women is, well, not a good example.

    When manosphere men are re-wiring their punch-blocks, digesting the red-pill and on the trip it induces, they need to know, to be fully aware and confident, that it’s better to leave some wires (many wires, to be sure, given our present conditions) off the new block entirely than create short-circuits and other dysfunction by punching-down new connections in the wrong places. By omitting the frivolous “wires”, one keeps the bandwith open for their own desires/actions, and they don’t bog-down their lives with whatever agendas other people insist of them.

    Gunwitch and others with that “Next them sooner than later” mindset have arrived at this “keeping the bandwith open” notion also. By booting adversarial women, or the women that “don’t display interest”, as soon as the flaw is revealed, they free their lives of needless clutter/distraction. I am advocating this, but, not just with regards to women, but in all elements of our lives as men. Does your job help your or hurt you? Next. Does your political party help your or hurt you? Next. Does where you live help you or hurt you? Next. Does facebook help you or hurt you? Does buying products made in China help you or hurt you, etcetera.

    “Problems with women” is a symptom of a bigger problem. Don’t focus on treating the symptoms, treat the problem(s). Men’s lack of leadership is the only “problem” with modern women. If there was any other true problem, well, we could beat the shit of them and that war would be over, like, quick. But, we are stuck in the suck because we don’t lead, we argue/cope/manipulate or otherwise validate a “war of the sexes” instead.

    Over the weekend, as I was cementing in a fence post, mai frau stopped “ho’n” in my garden, walked over to me, and gave me a kiss: complete with the dirt smeared on her face and bikini top. You know what she said? “Thank you. I’m so happy living here with you.”
    Why?
    How?
    I didn’t ask her if she’s a good gardener: I conjured up a garden, grabbed her (cooperative) hand, and led her to it. I didn’t tell her about my dreams, I brought her into them. But first, I had to dream, then have a dream to bring her into, otherwise I’d be just like any other run-of-the-mill, directionless, AFC turn-off douchebag who was stuck coping with the same “need more” goal everyone else was coping with. Since I streamlined my life, her life was also streamlined when I brought her into my queen-sized bed.

    Men, listen up: women NEED you to lead. Women NEED you to start dreaming, and consequently “living the dream”, as their “dream” is the one they see in maxi-pad and make-up commercials that run during toxic sitcoms/romcoms, and women need to be lead out of that nightmare. A man doesn’t need to be “good with women”, he only needs to have his shit together enough to provide security, and any woman can conform by adjusting her pussy size to his cock. You can’t adjust your cock’s size to the pussy size of a chick you’re fucking, can you? Women change around men, it’s not vice-versa. So in that regard, red-pill evolution reaches a maximum, finite level of “women skill/knowledge”. Which, explains the rehashing, updating, and recycling of “old knowledge” in our stagnant manosphere.

    If you don’t have a pot to piss in, get one. Then, learn to enjoy pissing in it by yourself BEFORE you worry about where women are pissing. Chances are, before you get to thinking about women at all, they would’ve seen you smiling and ran over to see what all the fun was about. They’ll be so focused on your smile, and your pot, they won’t even notice your cock, or the piss.

    Again, pee in a spittoon, the Stanley Cup, an outhouse, the Super Bowl, a witch’s cauldron, a moon crater, I don’t care. Just don’t waste your life standing in the line for the same porta-potty everybody else is, worrying about what the fuck the chick (who didn’t have her own pot, either) is doing in there, holding up the line. See it as a zombie conga-line to the crapper, and go a better way: a chick will think you found another toilet and sneak along behind you, because she needs “to tinkle”, too. Then, a few other chicks will see her sneaking off, and follow her to see why she’s breaking from the herd…

    then,

    STAMPEDE!

    ..and we all avoid the crapper.

    The end.

  56. @Vulpine,

    Clap! Clap!

    Wow. Just freakin’…wow.

    Thank you. I have been mired in the women focused hell for a couple of years. This really spoke to me.

    Damn.

    A sign of a great site is not only the author, but the kind of commentators he attracts.

  57. @ Rollo . . . sometimes subjective perception and objective reality coincides precisely.

    “Holy shit! if I don’t move out of the way that bus will hit me! ”

    The more simplistic the dynamic the easier the task, obviously.

    If not, then what is Science?

    Empiricism and peer review accounts for both, proof with agreed perception, if you will. Sometimes scientific conjecture is right the first time.

    Objective epistemology and a rigorous re-examining of the facts contextually.

    To your point it, ” that shouldn’t excuse us from making our best effort to remain objective.”

    As long as it is practiced, the closer we stay to truthful understanding. Certainty is achievable.

    A is A.

    Atheism and/or a belief an ‘objective reality’ as a pretext makes the Red Pill less bitter. IMHO

    Roosh’s surrender of frame on the Dr. Oz. show speaks volumes. . . just saying.

  58. @zdroidz

    There is some unexplored depth to your notion that Motherhood constitutes a third motivating drive in women, in addition to AF and BB. The AF/BB dynamic is a manifestation of women trying to satisfy their various drives, whether rational (provisioning of BB) or irrational (sexual satisfaction of AF). Motherhood, not biological but behavioral, falls outside the purview of either AF or BB in terms of the drive being satisfied.

    It helps to analyze male driving forces alongside female driving forces because the complementarity of the sexes suggests that for every female driving force there should be a complementary male driving force. The AF dynamic is paired with an HB10 dynamic in men whereby men want to have sex with the hottest women possible. The BB dynamic is paired with a Worker dynamic whereby a man secures prosperity through his own work. The Motherhood dynamic would then be paired with a Fatherhood dynamic.

    The Motherhood dynamic manifests as women caring for the elderly, caring for children, caring for the sick, caring for animals, and all out of a seemingly innate affinity for empathic behavior. This is not discussed much because, although it can be observed in certain women, especially older women, it is incredibly rare in our modern culture and thereby viewed as insignificant. Yet it is an illuminating and important exception to the general rule because it points to the value that women can bring to a relationship and to society, which addresses some of Roosh’s recent cynicism regarding women’s inability to make men’s lives better.

    The Fatherhood dynamic manifests as a propensity to use one’s strength in the service of others, not slavishly out of obligation, but deliberately and willfully out of a sense of personal dignity. Just as a rich man will buy a room a round out of his abundance, so a man will be gracious and patient with women and children, leading them from a position of confidence (abundance). Thus opening doors, helping with physical labor, and even going to war are masculine roles that rightfully are associated, traditionally, with masculine dignity.

    Note that, in the absence of Motherhood such displays of Fatherhood are foolish: men get used and tossed aside like trash in modern society. Waking up to this new truth is what, to me, taking the Red Pill means.

    The Red Pill movement needs to press onwards from recognizing the problem to more fully characterizing it and developing countermeasures to address the various pitfalls inherent in our present system and culture. PUA is a tool for getting laid; MGTOW is a tool for avoiding the most debilitating blows a man can suffer at the hands of the present system; Neomasculinity seems to be a formalized system of embracing self-improvement and empowerment in order to better navigate modern society.

    There is yet to be a full characterization of how the couple as a whole ought to function, with an interplay between the masculine and feminine roles. I expect that this stems from an unwillingness among modern people to embrace any authority that dares to tell them what they “ought” to do. Dalrock’s approach, grounded in traditional Christian gender roles and complementarity, seems to be the most promising in the long-term: it fundamentally looks at the problem in vivo (both genders together, in human interaction on a couple-by-couple basis) rather than in vitro (each in isolation, interacting with the other only abstractly).

    I propose considering the notion that most modern women are not developmentally complete women: they were raised to be indifferent or hostile towards children and, while their biology still enables them to produce babies, they are completely unprepared for motherhood because Motherhood was something they never learned while growing up. Thus they remain emotionally stunted, incomplete women, who cannot fully take up the mantle of Womanhood and be a wife of real, lasting value. Knowing this they attempt to be men, but find themselves fundamentally lacking in that department as well, and they are left in a sort of no-mans-land, neither here nor there, and hence quite useless to a man looking for a valuable mate as a wife.

  59. Roosh is a good businessman and a prolific blogger, that said he is no Pickup Artist nor has claimed to be(to his credit), nor is he particularly alpha. I remember when he still had up his flickr account, the photos spoke volumes, all of the girls were dogs and you could tell his social awkwardness in every photo. He only had one picture of a cute girl giving him any attention. If you want to know how alpha he is you need only read his whine-fest about being ambushed after going on the female centric doctor oz show somehow his social savviness couldn’t see the hit coming and he couldn’t deal with it once it happened. Why would I take advice about women or being a man from a guy like that?

  60. I should add there is an interesting thing that happens in the stock market. Every bear market teaches a lesson, and the market always learns the wrong lesson. I think there were alot of simple truths in Pickup advice, but people being people get bored and move on to the next shiny object. The more fundamental aspect is that our culture has beaten down manliness(and womanliness) and neither women nor men are happy about it. It has to get bad enough until large portions of men finally won’t take it anymore. Men just have to decide to stop listening to women, and this social nightmare will be over.

  61. @Nathan

    ” I’m a pro-life atheist”

    Contradiction in terms

    I’m with Glenn on this: your statement is asinine. When pointed out as such and asked to justify your position, you dodged because you have no response.

    While I’m agnostic atheist and don’t identify as pro-life, I can tell you that it is not inconsistent with atheist reasoning to be pro-life. Most (piss poor) pro-life arguments start from a religious perspective, but are legally bankrupt since they stand on the acceptance (and enforcement) of a particular religious view as law. (Hence the reason I feel most anti-abortion regulation these days is unconstitutional)

    Knowing Glenn though, he’s got a far more solid argument for his position than any religious talking head would without once having to invoke religious doctrine to do so. Just because you don’t have dogma to make a particular argument for you doesn’t mean the argument can’t be logically made.

  62. Two good Tyler vids on the subject of realigning your expectations/goals:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZANMgG6gTw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O-sPbelDII

    One good example of this dynamic is what do we know makes a man attractive?:

    – he doesn’t NEED the girl to complete him
    – he has a purpose that isn’t HER, SHE is not his purpose
    – he has options and she worries that she could be replaced
    – he can WALK AWAY at any point if she doesn’t keep herself in shape or keep putting out or becomes unpleasant he can just end it and take off
    – he does what he wants when he wants
    – he’s socially proofed, girls wanna fuck him, guys wanna be him
    – he’s driven, he has intent and goals and dreams to achieve
    – he’s the leader of men, leader of a wolf pack, high-value and his buddies are probably high-value like him but he’s the best of them
    – he takes pride in himself, he’s well groomed and other girls go “wow you’re a lucky girl” when they see her catch
    – he views himself as the prize
    – he’s mysterious, there are things she doesn’t know about him or where he’s going or who he’s with that her hamster can chew on and fill in…she doesn’t know that his job is just some menial bullshit and he gets chewed out by the boss every day ’cause she isn’t there to see it, she just sees him put on his suit and go off to do something like she saw on Mad Men and comes home with money for food and the roof over their head
    – he has solid boundaries and rules and expectations and anyone who doesn’t live up to them he cuts them out and doesn’t take shit

    Pretty badass dude, hey? A chick meets that guy and is like wow, this is a stallion. And the first year is awesome.

    Then what do they do? Well they follow society’s LTR script. This isn’t EVERY relationship, there are a few cases that work out here and there…but this is the VAST MAJORITY of the average guy these days:

    They move in together. No more mystery, she sees him every single night, she sees him sitting in his boxers surfing YouTube, they see him when he’s sick and helpless, maybe he works from home and they see that his job is just “playing on the computer” which isn’t the sexy fantasy they envisioned when he was wearing a suit heading off to the office. She sees him unkempt and ungroomed, she sees him when he’s sad and defeated at his lowest points. She comes home to see him sitting on the couch eating pizza and watching TV.

    He stops socializing. His buddies are a “bad influence” and he’s wrapped up in new relationship feels so he stops hanging out with them either by his GF’s orders or by his own voluntarily prioritizing her over his lifelong bros because she has a pussy. He stays in to watch DVDs with her on fri/sat nights and her friends become his friends (because SHE’S still social). He’s no longer the leader of anyone and some of his buddies become way higher-value than him because hey, he’s in an LTR, he can relax now, he’s just sitting on the couch watching TV while his single buddies are off taking on the world. He has the occasional poker game (with more beer to help fatten him up ’cause hey, he’s got an LTR why bother taking care of himself, he’s WON the game!!!) and his buddies have either become losers like him or are too high-value to come hang out in a basement playing poker with guys who don’t want to do anything with their lives.

    When he does occasionally go out, he has no idea how to talk to or flirt with women anymore ’cause it’s been so long and he feels guilty doing it anyway, and, you know, only some jerk player would do that, he’s a REAL MAN who’s faithful to his woman he would never disrespect her by flirting with the cute waitress. That would be MEAN!! Plus, you know, he’s kind of let himself go a bit now that he takes a closer look in the bathroom mirror at the Denny’s they’re at. He has no more social proof, no more social circle, he’s let himself go and he doesn’t view himself as the prize anymore…maybe a booby prize.

    In fact he’s lucky his girl is with him and he knows it! His friends and her friends all make sure to remind him. So does the media he wastes his day consuming. She’s still attractive enough to have guys orbit and chase her so he knows he better try real hard to keep her!! I mean, he’s become so pathetic that if he lost her, god, it would be terrible, he’d have to go out to BARS again…and try to PICK UP girls…oh god, it was hell the first time. I mean…maybe it was fun sometimes, he can’t really remember it’s been a while, but he’s pretty sure it was terrible and he hated it and he’s much happier now. I mean back then he had to go weeks and months without getting laid sometimes!! …although his GF hasn’t really been putting out lately. But you know, she’s got that stomach problem and all…plus he’s put on some pounds and wearing crappy cheap clothes that are comfortable ’cause his GF when they started dating told him she likes when a guy doesn’t care about his looks.

    So he better not fuck it up and lose her…she wants him to do something he doesn’t want to do? He better do it!! Who cares what he wants, happy wife happy life right?? Plus that Jezebel article said men who do more housework get laid more and all the women in the comment section probably aren’t huge ugly old harpies and they said they’re turned on when their man does the dishes! Maybe THAT’S how he can get laid again…he sure does miss sex…he didn’t expect to be jacking off to porn in his 30s (hidden of course, wouldn’t want the GF to know he still has a sex drive or to catch him looking at porn of hotter girls) like he did when he was 14…why won’t his wife just give him a handjob or something when he begs for one, he just doesn’t get it…she USED to love fucking him, they used to bang all over the place even in public! Huh, well, maybe she’s just getting old…I mean he’s 30+ now. And he feels old. Sure the pizza and lethargic lazy lifestyle could be contributing to his feeling old but, you know, that’s how it naturally goes right?

    Things aren’t going amazing but, you know, comfort and all. Comfort is really the best part of relationships right? That sex like bunnies thing that’s just for new couples. You’re right, girlfriend, that could IS gross putting on PDAs like that….wait…didn’t we used to do that? hmm…can’t remember, it’s been a while.

    But hey, you know what’ll fix things? GET MARRIED!! I mean, it’s pretty much time. You don’t really want to do it and you’ve heard your single buddy mention something about a divorce rate and sure most of his buddies have been through a divorce or two but, you know, you have a unicorn, that’s those other guys who marry CRAZY BITCHES that get divorced lol that won’t happen to YOU. So it’s probably okay. You don’t really see the benefit in it for you, it seems expensive, really it’s going to empty half your life savings, but her mom and friends are all badgering you and she’s looking sad, so it doesn’t really matter if you don’t want to do something, relationships are about COMPROMISE right? So okay let’s get married! Prenup? Nahh you’re right, those DO imply that I don’t love you. Baby you’re the center of my world, I’m nothing without you, YOU COMPLETE ME!!

    Well hey now that we’re married, we need a house. Sure let’s get wrapped up in the legal work together so you own part of it too. This married life sure is bliss, aside from how expensive it was. But hey now we can have kids and stuff so that’s great! I don’t mind 9 months without sex, it’s not like we have sex very often anymore anyway…I try to initiate but, you know, she’s got that stomach problem. In fact we fought about it the other night…big fight actually. And you know what, I thought I was totally in the right but I ended up having to sleep on the couch. That thing is so uncomfortable! I still think I was right but, you know, happy wife happy life, and that couch hurts, so I apologized for whatever it was she thinks I did wrong and told her I’ll do whatever it takes to make her happy. Just like I said on my wedding day! …but she’s still mad. Can I maybe crash on your couch dude? I slept in the car the other day because she wouldn’t let me sleep on the couch, but my back really hurts from all this weight I’ve gained…

    And where does that lead? Well now this guy is legally locked into this relationships so he absolutely cannot leave or the child support and alimony will ruin him…and on top of it she’s legally INCENTIVIZED by the system TO ditch him and eat pray love go find herself…which since he’s become such a pathetic sack of shit, I mean, why WOULDN’T she? She’d miss her kids sure, but, you know, her divorce lawyer said EVERY divorce case gets tough and she should bite first and file a restraining order, doesn’t she love her kids doesn’t she want them to live with her, it’s for the kids they’ll understand when they’re older. And hey, he’s the deadbeat dad loser who got divorced…she’s the wonderful unicorn queen who escaped the terrible loser (abusive, as she’ll tell the next guy so she doesn’t sound like she’s selfish) husband. Society will prop her up as a hero and tell her “you GO grrrl!!” Really this divorce thing sounds pretty good. She’s been fucking her boss at work lately and feeling a little guilty (although really it’s not her fault…that boss is a jerk who just bent her over his office desk and railed her he’s such a wild stallion!! and her husband isn’t the man she used to know and he’s emotionally distant or something, ya that sounds good), so now she can fuck her boss guilt-free!

    ‘course after the divorce he’s fat, lazy, old, sloppy, has no social skills, no idea how to flirt, has no friends to go out with to meet girls and doesn’t have time to anyway because he has to work harder to pay his alimony and child support so he can see his kids every second weekend if she lets him but boy it sure is lonely most nights…he didn’t expect to be jacking off to porn at age 45 like he’s 14 again.

    ………………………………….

    ………………………

    ……..and men repeat this INSANE PATTERN. Every fucking DAY. You, reading this, probably know or have been or ARE this exact fucking guy.

    Society’s plan is literally designed to neutralize every attractive trait a man has when he first gets a girl. It’s insanity.

    Compare that to something like this:

    The guy refuses to give up his one or two nights out with the boys, no matter what. He maintains his social circle and his network and stays socially sharp and flirts with girls when he’s out with his buddies, even if he doesn’t actually bang those girls.

    Because he’s going out, he maintains his looks. Keeps hitting the gym regularly and keeps his grooming and style up. Other guys his age are fat and sloppy but he looks as good as he did 10 years ago. He’s social enough, from all his time socializing, that he doesn’t really need alcohol so he’s not boozing it up all the time, he’s just out being a cool social guy with his buddies and meeting new people, maybe networking for a better job or other ambitions he has.

    The guy moves in with his girl but maintains a separate apartment on the other side of town that he calls his office. It has a desk etc. to actually do work at (incase he works from home, he instead travels to here to work so he keeps some mystery) and it’s an apartment with a bed and shower and fridge/stove etc. (incase he works late, of course, he doesn’t want to wake his GF up or drive when he’s tired).

    Now if they have a one-sided open LTR where he’s allowed to play around now and then (because he properly screened for a girl who’s bi-sexual and not jealous and understands that men like variety and he DIDN’T SETTLE DOWN with girls who DON’T feel that way), as long as he prioritizes her and plays safe and makes sure she knows the other girls don’t mean anything to him, he now has a place he can bang those girls. He can shower up, change clothes, etc.

    If he gets into a fight with his girl? No sleeping on the couch. He can just walk out and spend a week at his office living in complete comfort, sleeping in a warm bed, maybe even banging an FB, eating good healthy meals etc. until his GF realizes that she was being retarded and misses him and he allows her to apologize and comes back.

    People pressure him to marry her but he’s prepared for that discussion and has a bunch of stats and facts to back his side up, pointing out how shitty other relationships are and thwarts people’s objections to their arrangement effortlessly, and then wraps it up with a romantic little speech about “wanting to always feel like I have to be our best for eachother and not take eachother for granted and choose eachother every day” and he’s trained his girl to spout that “it works for us”.

    When they have a kid and house (in his name etc.) and are in full settle down mode, he keeps the office for when he needs to get some peace and quiet and get some work done, and he tones down going out (but never eliminates it completely) and GOES OUT to meet his buddies at a bar somewhere instead of sitting in his basement which is “easier” but less mysterious. Maybe he doesn’t bone other girls and has toned the flirting down a bit, but occasionally he comes home a bit later than he said he would, juuuuust to keep her on her toes with a tiny bit of dread game now and then so she stays in shape and doesn’t take him for granted.

    That’s my first draft at least. Will it work? I don’t know, maybe maybe not I’m not a fuckin wizard.

    But if you offer me those two plans and tell me to choose between them, that second one sure sounds a helluva lot more appealing. That first plan isn’t guaranteed to work out either, and I like the sound of mine.

    …but to SUCCEED at mine, you have to throw out a whole lot of blue pill ideas about how society should work and how love should work and how attraction should work and how women should BE etc. etc. You have to fully embrace the red pill and accept reality as it IS, and be COOL with it and LIKE that it’s that way.

    Like Yoga said “Do or do not.” Like Mr Miyagi said: “Karate do, karate don’t” “left side of road good. right side good. middle of road? squish like grape.”

    Just let go and embrace the red pill.

  63. “It’s not about being a mother. That’s EASY.

    It’s about being mother to the right offspring.”

    Ta da! I would add at the right time, in the right environment.

    And while I’m here I’ll point out that women are takers of attention and ask: What demographic gives women the most attention?

    What if women didn’t have babies in order to give love, but to take it?

  64. Hell, look at Rollo. Successful long term marriage etc. What’s his job? Go out and be social while flirting with promo bottle girls (hello dread game and remaining a mystery at times!). What’s his hobby? Embracing game and leading other men. It’s probably safe to assume that he hits the gym and grooms/dresses himself well. Sure the legal marriage part is sticky but as long as he stays attractive and high-value and understands he can’t cry about his tummy for a week (and he knows that because he’s written articles about that), divorce shouldn’t be something he has to worry about since Hypergamy should ensure that his wife understands that she would be the one losing out if she divorced him.

    My version is a bit more extreme, but I’m also approaching mid-30s in 2015 and I’m dealing with 2015 not whatever year it was when Rollo got hitched. I’m adapting for the reality I see around me, while trying to come up with a plan that still follows consistent game concepts that I know have been proven time and time again instead of sticking to a plan that actively sabotages them.

  65. @Glenn,

    I went back to check on your comment last thread.

    Thanks for sharing, and I get it. Struggling with much the same. Trying to figure out which wires belong and which do not.

    What I struggle with is when I think in a certain direction, find myself gravitating toward something that MIGHT be me, might be genuine, I then begin to wonder if it’s real, or some other aspect of conditioning. In short, can I trust my instinct here.

    Of course, I realize it might also simply be rationalization for not trying. I guess that’s it…just TRY it. If it doesn’t feel right, move on.

    Bottom line, you ain’t alone.

  66. (also I’m talkin a cheap little studio apartment, not like a 2-bedroom or anything crazy lol Just a tiny little cheap “bachelor pad”, it can be anywhere in the city that you can get a good deal on it…sure right now you probably couldn’t go out and get one, but if you knew for 5-10 years ahead of time that you were going to want one at some point? And you understood how much of a difference it could make having a place to disappear to now and then and a place to stay (and make her worry) when you have fights, and a place you can veg out and be as unattractive as you like for a few hours, etc.? You might start putting a little money aside each month or work a little harder to make sure you’re able to afford a cozy little studio apartment on the side…all it needs is a few basics…and yes, you can get a single bed in it and girls will still happily fuck you lol)

  67. Thanks, seraph. I see a lot of frustration at the “what do I do with this RP knowledge now that I understand how women suck”, and wish I could better articulate the ultimately necessary shift in priority, once “women suck, but at least I can fuck them, now” is achieved.

    I missed a bunch of posts while typing up mine, so, pardon any redundancies.

    @YaReally
    I’m not trying to ram monogamy down anyone’s throat, per se. Understand that “versions” of LTRs can be awesome, and, “it’s not cheating if we’re sharing”.

    Mai frau likes girls, so, I can have stability and variety via “sharing”. Granted, we haven’t yet, but, priorities have mutually been elsewhere. We don’t care to get into “sarging” right now, though, we do have a few prospects in mind, just, not the time to host that party just now.

    I point that out, because, having an LTR with a truly awesome partner on your team can fulfill (many of) the same needs as remaining “free”, and more.

    But, it’s my dream, not everyone’s. And, you’ll notice I make no mention of “marriage” or putting her on the deed.
    ___

    Oh, I see… everybody is posting awesome essays. Nice. Go team.

  68. just popped in for lunch. I’ve got 30 seconds.

    Some people have made assertions that divorce and abortion are evidence that women lack a strong motherhood instinct. FTW!?! Soft thinking boys, I’m disappointed.

    Does suicide prove that men have a weak instinct for self preservation?

    http://i.imgur.com/kn1cM3r.jpg

    Of course not. You guys need to harden’ the fuck up.

  69. I think what a lot of guys like Roosh finally realize is that there’s more to life than chasing pussy and have a glimpse into the Abyss. I hit that at 32, the idea of sex with yet another virtual stranger lost all its attraction. I got lucky and met someone who jumped all the hoops and married her two years later. We lasted 24 years until she stared into her own Abyss and went off the rails entering menopause….What my 60 years on the planet has taught me is women are a pain in the ass and all basically crazy, always have been always will be. You just have determine what level of crazy you are comfortable with that fits in with your life style.

  70. @Vulpine
    “I point that out, because, having an LTR with a truly awesome partner on your team can fulfill (many of) the same needs as remaining “free”, and more.”

    You’re saying the same thing as me. We’re both describing and end game where you have a main Primary girl (aka your LTR chick), and then girls you bang with her. She only fucks you and you fuck other girls with her or on your own on the side.

    Like I say, I don’t think many men wouldn’t be up for that arrangement if 1) they knew HOW to frame it and make it actually work successfully, and 2) they thought they were actually capable/deserving OF it, and 3) they understood that a lot of girls will enjoy it and would rather have 90% of an alpha than ditch him for 100% of some chode lol

    “I’m not trying to ram monogamy down anyone’s throat, per se.”

    Personally I get bored. I like variety in my sex and my women, even their personalities. The same vag over and over eventually becomes the same routine sex over and over (sure you can mix it up but if you both know a certain thing that you love you’ll both end up reverting to that more often than not…steak is delicious but if you have it for dinner eeeevery fucking night it can get boring).

    I think a lot of guys would enjoy variety if they could actually get it, and could get it with quality girls. But I also know that’s unrealistic and most guys will eventually want to try the settle down with one girl thing. So all I’m suggesting is that if you’re going to settle down with one girl, don’t follow society’s plan for doing it because society’s plan is designed to fail. Try a new plan.

    Also anyone who wants to poke holes in my ideal arrangement there, go nuts. My buddies and I are testing out parts of it here and there but I’m not looking to settle anytime soon so it’ll be a while before I give it the full test. But in the meantime any holes in it I want to know about so I can think about how to plug them all and refine my vision further.

    I would love for there to come a day where I can write an eBook or something that says “look, here’s how to screen for a girl who will be open to this, here’s how to get her, here’s how to set the arrangement up and all the problems you may run into along the way and how to avoid them happening or address them in a positive way for both of you when they come up, here’s how to handle the legal side of things, and here’s why all of this works.”

    Marriage is crumbling and more and more men are waking up. It’s time for a new plan.

  71. “People pressure him to marry her but he’s prepared for that discussion and . . .”

    . . . he says, “No thank you,” and returns his attention back to what he was doing.

  72. @YaReally

    I must’ve missed the connecting point.
    *puts ice pick away*
    No holes in an awesome ideal from me, sir.
    Carry on.

  73. Heh… duh… the solid points and videos were the connection I should’ve made. oops. I can read. Promise.

    1. @Ronin
      The way you explain tolerance and crazy is very familiar. I never even as a blue pill young man realized that crazy women would ever go away.
      But I am not stable in my own and even in the red pill to manage a relationship. I still approach but I need to be more prepared before I get into one.

  74. @Jeremy

    I understand what you’re saying regarding truth versus fact. I have been down that road and you are exactly right, you have to prove it. But the reality is, whether we use truth or fact, ultimately it always comes down to proving it. The difference is, truth is most associated with dogma, whereas facts are most associated with actual evidence.

    Of course, if we pushed it a little further and got in the habit of replacing “truth” with “fact”, we would find that the deniers still disagree even when the facts present themselves. I face this reality most often now that I have altered my statements to use “Fact” instead of “Truth”. The result? It always appears in stages….first they shame you, then they try to change the subject, and lastly, they do everything they can to censor you or even get you fired (occupational terrorism). Anything to keep the facts from coming to the light for all to see or to avoid addressing those facts themselves. People are so embedded in the matrix that as Rollo states, it often takes a traumatic event to unplug them. However there are still those of us out there who let reason overcome the emotions and ego-investment. It is for their benefit I suggest using “fact” over “truth”.

  75. “Some people have made assertions that divorce and abortion are evidence that women lack a strong motherhood instinct. FTW!?! Soft thinking boys, I’m disappointed.”

    Awwwww…sorry, Dad!

    “Does suicide prove that men have a weak instinct for self preservation?”

    Nice try.

    I did not claim that the motherhood instinct was “weak” with women. I contend that you give it far too much credit/credence/etc. when weighed against other female concerns/interests.

    Your contention was that the Motherhood instinct over rode both AF and BB…

    “Obviously this is debatable but in my world Motherhood appears to win. Beta Bucks comes in second and Alpha a distant last place.”

    Some of us think you are wrong, because the overall behavior of women in regards to motherhood in comparison to the other pursuits does not support your contention.

    Again, if woman’s motherhood impulse was as generally strong as you credit, they would not be delaying motherhood (by your definition, ‘caring for children’) in general, having fewer kids overall, killing those children they do conceive in the millions, and divorcing their husbands and leaving their kids with broken homes as often as they are.

    You are pedestalizing women as a group, attributing to them generally characteristics which modern stats don’t support.

  76. @YaReally

    Post the curriculum. I know it’s all about going out. Done.

    Post what’s more than that. If its simply your archive, cool.

  77. This is getting way off track.

    Riddle me this. What does this picture of two older women taking care of an orphaned owl have to do with Beta Bucks? Nothing.

    http://i.imgur.com/8gmQ4rY.jpg

    I have 2 main points.

    1) AF/BB does not correctly describe or predict female behavior.

    2) Add in a motherhood instinct and women become predictable. The epiphany makes sense. The relatively low interest in Alphas makes sense. The 1% rate of paternity fraud makes sense. Everything falls into place.

  78. @Rollo: “I’m afraid to think what the outcome might be if Roosh ever developed ONEitis over a girl he believed would fulfill those Blue Pill hopes.”

    It hardly takes imagination. We have seen this story before.

    @Glenn: ” improving the lives of men by revealing who they are lied to and suppressed by a society run amok with FI informed ideas.”

    Summing up the Red Pill in a single clause. But why so insane about insanity? Frame, bro. You know she touches herself every time she makes you lose it.

    @zdroids: On the mothering instinct vs. AF/BB

    The mothering instinct is strong and important and despite the fact I thought you might be a troll at first, your picture of the chick at the vet with the animals has convinced me that in fact the mothering instinct is separate and distinct from the BB instinct.

    However, what you miss is that Red Pill is about sexual strategy. Alpha Fucks is a sexual strategy. Beta Bucks is a Sexual strategy. The mothering instinct, as you highlight, is in a separate and distinct category and as was pointed out upthread, appears to surface almost randomly- so I bet it is menstrual cycle related interacting with their life stage and achievement- as most random stuff with women seems to be.

    >@Vulpine: ” spitters are adversarial, chicks that swallow are cooperative. Spitters create a big fuss, kill the mood, run around freaking out about the load (that they are actually savoring more the longer they keep it in their mouth, but don’t want to implicate themselves as a “slut” for actually enjoying the taste.) whilst they look for a place to spit. Whereas, if they simply swallowed, the “trauma” would’ve been over in a matter of seconds. But no, they want to make a big deal to extort some sort of trophy or award for their “suffering through a blow job”. On the other hand, the cooperative chick would give a blow job to give pleasure, and understands ejaculation comes with ejaculate, so in attempt enhance the pleasure given, take the shot of man-magic for the team, and keeps the pleasin’ mood intact instead of using the situation to further their own agenda.”

    The old spit or swallow Shit Test. If I knew then what I know now.

  79. @Droidz,

    Okay, let me get this straight…

    Your argument consists of a picture of two OLD women holding a fucking bird?!?

    What exactly does this prove again?

    Oh, that’s right, the owl does not provide provisioning for these ladies so BB is a debunked theory.

    And our thinking is soft?

    Oy.

    “I have 2 main points.

    No… you have two contentions which are sorely lacking substantiation.

  80. “Alpha Fucks is a sexual strategy. Beta Bucks is a Sexual strategy.”

    Sex is a baby making strategy.

  81. @Vulpine

    Epic comment. Honestly, one of the best things I’ve read in a while – and I read a lot.

    Thanks for that.

    I only say so trusting you’re grounded enough to not get a big head lol.

  82. @zdr01dz

    If I may, here’s the problem with your current attempts. It’s pretty much coming across as “Hey this Red Pill stuff is cool and all, but I think one of the pillars of it (Hypergamy/AFBB) is pretty much not true at all because of edge cases X, Y, and Z. I don’t have a theory that even begins to replace it for all other cases, but I have this little thing I think covers those edge cases. Even though AFBB explains the vast majority of cases much better, I think my theory is better in all cases.”

    This is tantamount to Einstein saying “Newtonian physics is straight up wrong, but I have nothing to replace it.” We’d be saying “Ein-who?” when people mentioned him these days if he’d worked that way. (Yes, I realize most Red Pill stuff doesn’t have proper scientific rigor applied to it; it’s the best we have though with what we’re allowed to do to test ideas)

    Looking at the example of physics, I’ll say where I think you’re right and wrong. Newtonian physics wasn’t wrong, just incomplete. Ditto now for Special and General Relativity. But we’ve still used those theories to do useful things anyway. Building cars, airplanes, computers, and basically every technological advance in modern society comes out of incomplete, imperfect theories.

    You instinctively sense that AFBB is incomplete and just a rough approximation of all the dynamics underneath, and that is correct. However, you’re not presenting something that’s any more complete and describes what AFBB already describes “well enough” for a guy to use it to get quantifiable results in his life. That’s the problem.

    If you’re going to throw ALL off AFBB out because “I see cases where it’s wrong” but you can’t explain the other 80% of cases accurately where AFBB succeeds, your ideas are pretty worthless. I’m not saying AFBB isn’t wrong or incomplete, but it’s less wrong and less incomplete than pretty much everything I’ve seen you try to suggest here, and that’s what TRP community ultimately wants: if you’re gonna come up with something less wrong do it. But don’t show us something more wrong and say it’s why the current less wrong theory is completely wrong.

    That’s what you’re running up against.

  83. @Rollo: “I’m afraid to think what the outcome might be if Roosh ever developed ONEitis over a girl he believed would fulfill those Blue Pill hopes.”

    This is the natural outcome. You did marry.

    Pair-bonding is a natural instinct

  84. @vulpine… that needs to be its own post on Just Four Guys. Or somewhere. But it needs to Its Own Post.
    http://therationalmale.com/2015/05/25/changing-your-programming/comment-page-2/#comment-103577

    @YaReally… Your posts since I left my comment are why I’m very glad that yareallyarchive.com exists, even if it has a few days’ delay. Thanks, @forgethesky, for cluing me in!

    Aaand @inpursuitoftruth123 figures that since everyone else is sinking 3-pointers at will today, why not? Nice riff on fatherhood, motherhood, and the pieces we’re trying to put together.
    http://therationalmale.com/2015/05/25/changing-your-programming/comment-page-2/#comment-103583

    Just an incredible comment section today.

    Finally, @zdr01dz asks… Riddle me this. What does this picture of two older women taking care of an orphaned owl have to do with Beta Bucks?

    A: They found one of the few creatures more alpha than a cat.

  85. @vulpine… that needs to be its own post on Just Four Guys. Or somewhere. But it needs to Its Own Post.
    http://therationalmale.com/2015/05/25/changing-your-programming/comment-page-2/#comment-103577

    @YaReally… Your posts since I left my comment are why I’m very glad that yareallyarchive.com exists, even if it has a few days’ delay. Thanks, @forgethesky, for cluing me in!

    Aaand @inpursuitoftruth123 figures that since everyone else is sinking 3-pointers at will today, why not? Nice riff on fatherhood, motherhood, and the pieces we’re trying to put together.
    http://therationalmale.com/2015/05/25/changing-your-programming/comment-page-2/#comment-103583

    Just an incredible comment section today.

    Finally, @zdr01dz asks… Riddle me this. What does this picture of two older women taking care of an orphaned owl have to do with Beta Bucks?

    A: They found one of the few creatures more alpha than a cat.

  86. ” . . . if you’re gonna come up with something less wrong . . .”

    . . . he’s going to need to get out more.

  87. @Rollo From things Roosh has said in the past, I’d actually bet his financial situation is pretty stable. In one video (i think it was a Q/A with his forum) he did mention that he makes more per year from his books than he did at his old microbiology job (which paid 60k per year.) This was maybe a year or two back, but given that he has no children/spouse and lives a pretty minimalist lifestyle, it’s safe to assume that he’s probably saved/invested quite a bit of money. I’d like to assume that he’s smart enough to manage his money and leverage that money into something sustainable.

    I think a more likely hypothesis is that Roosh has realized that sleeping with women abroad is not the end game of life and that he is looking for meaning. This is coming in two ways; one is through his new found openness to spirituality and religion. The second is through a life purpose. Roosh has decided that his life purpose should be to attempt to change the fem-centric society that we have and to try to revert society back to a patriarchy which was the best system for managing gender relations.

    If you disagree with me, please elaborate on why you think Roosh is disingenuous?

    Also for what it’s worth, I think this split between you and Roosh is temporary and primarily due to personal insults that were exchanged. His accusation that you simply rebrand Roissy is blatantly false, and personally I think its your work which will endure since most of what you’ve written is about the nature of women, which is timeless. I’m not trying to brown nose here, but I genuinely believe that you are one of the great geniuses of my lifetime. I also think this split between you can be healed if you so choose.

  88. @kfg

    Hahah, in my experience the guys that are least willing to buy some aspects of TRP are dudes that got married while I was busy getting my ass absolutely handed to me by the single life. I accept it because 25 fucking years of dating without a marriage in sight and repeatedly being left for the other dude leaves a guy in complete rejection of any remotely Blue Pill idea.

    I’ve been snubbed viciously and without mercy so many times at this point that I’m willing to completely remove humanity from women (and to be fair myself as well) and analyze them as nothing but machines. When you do it that way, suddenly all the behaviors AFBB explains make complete sense. Women seem far more congruent when you understand the axioms their reasoning operates on.

    If somebody can come up with an explanation that covers the edge cases… well really I honestly don’t care that much. As was mentioned up thread (forgot who said it), we don’t care about most edge cases because they’re usually undesirable women anyway; FUMPs in general. We only care what predicts attractive female behavior, and AFBB nails it damn near all the time at all life phases.

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