Strength of Interest

10407975_880067355398915_2343533858160698952_n

I had a couple of questions from the SoSuave Forum‘s (yes, I’m still a mod there) Judge Nismo I thought I’d take a crack at:

G’ morning Rollo. I got a couple questions for you that I don’t think you touched on in your book…or I may have overlooked.

1. What is your opinion on the Celebrity Maxim?

That is, I know you see it a lot in your Rational Male comments and on this board (i.e. Would she flake out on Brad Pitt? Would she make George Clooney wait for sex? She wouldn’t confuse Channing Tatum, etc.) I’ve even used it a lot on here, usually saying you wouldn’t fall asleep if you had a date with Katy Perry, and you wouldn’t pull a last minute flake text with Kate Upton, and you wouldn’t have to babysit if you had Shakira ready to bang!

If there’s three things I’ve learned from writing in the Manosphere for the past 12 years it’s this; no matter how apt, never use an allegory to illustrate a point, never try to relate a fictional story, movie or character to a real world dynamic and never hold up famous celebrities as common reference examples of broader, mundane dynamics.

The temptation to do so stems from a want for a common point of reference. However, appealing to a highly recognizable exemplar of a dynamic only makes picking apart the known particulars about that individual a priority – not on really grasping the dynamic itself.

I see this in the ‘sphere occasionally, and I’d be lying if I said I’d never committed these sins myself. For the most part, and certainly as far as my own readership goes, I think many of the best writers and the commentariat of the ‘sphere are very intelligent men. That’s not to account for the occasional troll, but I’ve found that even an OCD troll still needs to be clever in the ‘sphere.

That said, it’s just this preponderance of intelligence that makes men take illustrative examples as face value facts. Using celebrities as examples of commonality in purpose just smacks of the Apex Fallacy.

“….the Apex fallacy is the idea that we assign the characteristics of the highest visibility members of a group to all members of that group.”

If you’re at all familiar with the controversy surrounding the Apex Fallacy, feminists and manginas alike decided to commandeer wikipedia to paste this as a Men’s Rights misappropriation of the definition, but in actuality the true definition cuts both ways. So while women misappropriate the highest visibility men to associate a totality of the “patriarchy”, men, on the other hand, misappropriate the highest echelon men with examples of common inference of a dynamic.

In English, those celebs aren’t you or me or any layperson you deal with daily. I get the inference of course, and the message is usually one about incentives being strong enough to prompt behaviors. However, what Nismo is getting at is really less about the validity of those illustrations and more about genuine desire:

I ask since it’s quite a big trope in the manosphere…

2. What is your take on the one strike rule?

You do have a 3 strikes article on Rational Male, and I did read it. On this board, it’s quite common to see situations with chicks go like this:

– She flaked on me, she is deleted.
– She stopped responding to my texts and calls, automatic out.
– She wants to bring some friends along, sorry this is one on one.

I could go on and on, most of these situations often get read by red pill men as low interest, thus move on or become a beta orbiter. Yes, I do online dating and work 2 jobs, but I do have a one strike policy.

Sure, sometimes life will truly get in the way, but most men who are red pill will likely move on if there’s low interest. We all know not to waste time with uninterested chicks because they won’t put out. Heck, the sick excuse is often times a blow off, and lately, death in the family has been disguised as blowing someone off.

Zero Tolerance

The problem most men have with a Zero Tolerance policy is that you’re not George Clooney and you’re not Brad Pitt, but moreover, most men still cling to Blue Pill idealisms and the conditioned hope that women will see the “real” men they think women have a magical sensitivity to detect. Thus, they play by the script and hold out for the real desire they believe women should have a capacity for with them.

This is why Blue Pill men get angry at the 3-Strikes rule; that scarcity mentality colors their interaction with women to the point that anything counter to playing the patient, devoted, “prove-my-quality” white knightery role invalidates everything they’ve sacrificed and waited so patiently for up to that point.

They’re afraid of throwing the baby out with the bath water, and damn it, if you suggest doing anything other than what makes their patience worthwhile you’re a misogynistic prick.

If these men could pause with any insight they’d understand that any threshold – one strike, three strikes – suggested by myself or the manosphere isn’t about punishing a woman’s indecisiveness, but rather a pragmatic vetting meant to be efficient for men. That tolerance policy is about conservation of resources and time, not so much retribution (though I’me sure some men entertain that).

  • She flakes on you with no counter offer or marginal reframe? –
    Message: Insufficient interest
  • Stops responding to communications (and possibly resumes after a period)? – The Medium is the Message
  • Wants to bring friends along to a date? –
    Message: you are a rich resource to be exploited, or her interest is so low that she foresees a need to bring friends along to make her date with you entertaining.

The Prince with Interest

What Nismo is comparing here is really an evaluation of interest a woman has in you. I’ve gone into this in the past:

Women with high interest level (IL) wont confuse you. When a woman wants to fuck you she’ll find a way to fuck you. If she’s fluctuating between being into you and then not, put her away for a while and spin other plates. If she sorts it out for herself and pursues you, then you are still playing in your frame and you maintain the value of your attention to her. It’s when you patiently while away your time wondering what the magic formula is that’ll bring her around, that’s when you lean over into her frame. You need her more than she needs you and she will dictate the terms of her attentions.

From an evolutionary perspective Hypergamy can’t afford to wait once a woman’s filtering mechanism is satisfied that a man passes for an Alpha. Women will break rules for Alpha men and create more rules for Beta men to have access to her. Keep in mind that first part; women will make access easy for a man she perceives as an SMV superior. Hypergamy always seeks a better-than deserved SMV benefit.

So to use the apex example, no, a woman can’t afford to confuse Channing Tatum. Mix in the behavioral influences a woman’s ovulatory chemistry predisposes her to with that SMV+ benefit perception and you’ve got dilated pupils, seductive ornamentation, lower vocal intonations and an elevated heart rate – Estrus.

As you might guess, this poses a problem for most guys because, lets face it, most of us aren’t examples of this apex. Even when we make dramatic leaps in self-improvement and physical transformation it’s hard to shake our former self-impressions and our previous degrees of self-confidence.

Back in the early days of SoSuave there was a concept we’d use that I think had a lot of merit – the concept of the Prince. For many men just coming into a Red Pill awareness meant re-imagining oneself in a new, more intrinsically valued light.

For instance, after you understand the basic psychology of why a technique like Cocky & Funny or Amused Mastery works with women, personally applying those dynamics requires a man to view himself in a more valuable context.

As I said, Hypergamy always seeks a better-than deserved SMV benefit, so it follows that a man should at least reconsider himself as that “better-than her SMV” prospect. Irrespective of that being a reality or not, the idea is a sound one. In fact it’s a law of power:

Law 25 – Re-Create Yourself

Do not accept the roles that society foists on you.  Re-create yourself by forging a new identity, one that commands attention and never bores the audience.  Be the master of your own image rather than letting others define if for you. Incorporate dramatic devices into your public gestures and actions – your power will be enhanced and your character will seem larger than life.

And also:

Law 34 – Be Royal in your Own Fashion:  Act like a King to be treated like one

The way you carry yourself will often determine how you are treated; In the long run, appearing vulgar or common will make people disrespect you.  For a king respects himself and inspires the same sentiment in others.  By acting regally and confident of your powers, you make yourself seem destined to wear a crown.

In Amused Mastery, it helps to actually have some context of mastery to source as amusement.

Needless to say, asking a former Blue Pill Beta to simultaneously digest a new Red Pill awareness and revalue his self-worth is a pretty tall order. As I mention in Rejection & Revenge as a man, your existence will be defined by how you deal with rejection, so for a majority of men who’ve been hammered flat for the better part of a lifetime by women’s rejection telling him to adopt the mindset of a Prince is alien to him.

Furthermore, much of his feminine-conditioned self-perception has always taught him to be self-conscious and respectful of women’s default authority. It’s part of men’s previous Beta Game to want to identify with the feminine in order to prove how alike a man is with a woman. This conditioning is really a plan to force compliance to women’s sexual strategy from men, but it’s sold on the belief that being more feminine-like, feminine-sensitive, will set a Beta man apart from other brutish men who aren’t.

When you consider his previous degree of ego-investment in his conditioning, you can get a real appreciation of the unlearning a Red Pill man must do. It’s very difficult for most guys to consider themselves a Prince when they’ve been taught reverent deference to women all their lives.

Qualities of The Prince(ss)

A Prince’s time is valuable. His efforts and attention are gifts he bestows on the woman he’s interested in, and as such that woman’s esteem should be validated by it. She is envied by other women because of the Prince’s interest in her; it confirms there is something about her that sets her apart from other women. Her role becomes one of both humbling gratitude and excited, almost childlike, anticipations of him.

If that comes off like a pipe dream or a fake-it-till-you-make-it motivational screed, it’s because most men are so inured by a lifetime conditioning designed to hold them in the role of expectant, reverent, and deferring lover if they can perform to a woman’s standards. So ingrained is that subservience that a Princess’ acceptance of a man is exalted to an appreciation of spiritual, metaphysical, significance. God ordained her acceptance of him, the fates conspired or he “just got lucky”.

Beta men, in their Blue Pill expectations of women being rational agents, are often dumbfounded by the woman who compulsively returns over and over again to the Alpha ‘asshole’ who doesn’t respect, appreciate and love her like she deserves – like he would if she’d just come to her senses. We call that guy the emotional tampon, but what he doesn’t get is that the woman he’s orbiting is locked in a cycle that only a man with an SMV above her own can induce.

Even if that valuation is just perceptual, a woman’s Hypergamous optimization efforts will predispose her to wanting to lock that man down. This is the danger of relying on apex examples of a dynamic – women must still operate within their respective frames and within their capacity to accurately evaluate the SMV of the men she can realistically attract.

That semi-abusive Jerk boyfriend she loves so much? He’s not Channing Tatum or Brad Pitt, but contextually he’s the guy with the strength of her interest.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

533 comments on “Strength of Interest

  1. SfcTon. – “However, I still cannot shitcan the idea game is really a substitute for a robust and masculine life. And I mean masculine, unrepentant, unreconstructed raw masculinty and masculine pursuits”

    If a man can live his life as “masculine, unrepentant” with “unreconstructed raw masculinty” then wouldn’t any pursuit then be masculine?

    Or put another way, weak men are weak no matter their pursuits.

  2. “And not for nothing, but MYG not denying accusations she’s a woman sock-puppeting as a man for the last 3 threads, noted without comment.”

    You can also tell she’s a women by the fact that once everyone started to ignore her comments, she posted a bunch more, trying to get attention!

    3-4 comments in a row! Multiple times!

    I imagine she reacts the same way with men and texting.

    “He didn’t respond right away?! Maybe he doesn’t like me?! I must get his attention!”

    But, game doesn’t work…don’t cha know? *rolls eyes*

    (in fairness, anyone seeking validation would react the same way, male or female. Fuck “fairness”)

  3. @CaveClown

    in fairness, anyone seeking validation would react the same way, male or female.

    Bingo. This is why validation seeking behaviors are a DLV regardless of sex and why male attention seeking is so repulsive to females. Game is largely about making the dominance associated with masculinity part of your behaviors.

  4. ” . . . wouldn’t any pursuit then be masculine? ”

    Any pursuit done by such a man.

    Note that knitting sweaters was an invention of sail age North Sea fishermen. It is one of the many tasks and signifiers of men that women have usurped. Among the others are above the knee skirts, purses, pink, cavalry boots and high heels.

  5. Heels themselves were invented for cavalry, to keep feet from slipping from stirrups. Women didn’t wear heels at all. Heels were made high because hight is a male signifier of dominance. Women, beginning with the nobility, adopted high heels to shrink the dominance gap accorded to hight.

    They’re an early “You go gurrrrl!” thang.

  6. kfg – “Any pursuit done by such a man.”

    And that’s how I meant it.

    And your observation about women adapting men’s fashion is important. Men allowed and encouraged this to some degree, think girls in sailor outfits, because it serves as an overt sign of masculine dominance. Women participate and encourage this to be more like men or assert “ME TOO” seeking validation by aspiring to be associated with something greater. The men who dress as women are never seen as aspiring to something greater, but as jokes and failures as men, by both men and women.

    Fun fact: in Rome the women who wore togas were the high end prostitutes, as the empire declined women in togas became more common as the practice was adopted by wealthy women.

  7. Rollo,

    ” Women will break rules for Alpha men and create more rules for Beta men to have access to her. Keep in mind that first part; women will make access easy for a man she perceives as an SMV superior. Hypergamy always seeks a better-than deserved SMV benefit.”

    Well, what about the baby mamas who get knocked up by losers by any standard, and then lock down a beta provider with a good job for marriage? They don’t want to marry the loser baby daddies, they want to marry the well earning, responsible providers. And yes, they have more rules for them, like marriage and provisioning, so I’m with you there.

    Where you lose me is calling the baby daddies “alphas”. Its not just the lack of a job and money that makes them losers, its like they are aimless with no goals in life and they are dependent on others to live, lsometimes even their parents, even in their 20s. They are not particularly fit or muscular or good looking and the ones I’ve met are not gregarious extroverts either.

    It totally baffles me why these women bore these mens’ children but there it is.

    1. Where you lose me is calling the baby daddies “alphas”.

      That’s because trolls like you who c&p their same posts through multiple threads never read the links I post the first time they make their troll comments:

      http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/20/alpha/

      http://therationalmale.com/2012/06/29/the-origin-of-alpha/

      http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/05/the-contextual-alpha/

      http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/21/defining-alpha/

      Alpha is a state of mind, not a demographic. Hypergamy doesn’t care about the personal, moral, achievement-based definitions you’d like to apply to ‘Alpha’.

      Read more, troll/spam less.

  8. Mad Yale Grad

    May 6th, 2015 at 8:50 pm

    Speaking of celebs…

    Natalie Portman: Actress Says She Doesn’t Display Oscar Award Because It’s a ‘False Idol’

    “This is lit­er­ally worshipping gold idols — if you worship it. That’s why it’s not displayed on the wall. It’s a false idol,” Portman told The Hollywood Reporter when asked where she kept her Oscar.

    SRSLY?!

    kfg

    May 6th, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    MYG: “SRSLY?!”

    She’s Jewish. Read the Old Testament, or just watch The Ten Commandments. You could also do a net search on “Jewish Art”, of which there is very little and almost entirely restricted to non-representational designs on sacramental items.

    You’ll find similar in Islam and Christianity from the period in which they still took the OT seriously.
    __________________

    Ridiculous. Putting an award on a table or mantle in your home is not “worshipping” it.

  9. “Fun fact: in Rome the women who wore togas were the high end prostitutes, as the empire declined women in togas became more common as the practice was adopted by wealthy women”

    – What did Roman women wear before they wore togas?

  10. I google imaged the Upton chick and she’s thin in all the photos. Photoshopped? Old pics? Her ass is also flat. Flat asses that get fat get wide. So you’ve got a wide flat ass like a pancake. When they lay on their stomachs it spreads out sideways becoming even flatter. Common feature for her ethnic group. Not a good look.

    https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVjPZIE1V71EAZCMnnIlQ?p=kate+upton&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&fr2=piv-web&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-001

  11. “– What did Roman women wear before they wore togas?”

    Ankle length dresses. The toga is not a piece of normal clothing. It is an overclothing signifier of rank. It is so impractical that it requires at least two servants to put it on properly, who must then follow you around all day to keep adjusting it. If you so much as bend over it falls off.

    Men who did not rank (or were actively engaged in military pursuits) wore above the knee dresses or skirts. Pants were a sign of being uncivilized, a barbarian. Probably . . . German.

    “Ridiculous. Putting an award on a table or mantle in your home is not “worshipping” it.”

    With the degree of solipsism required to deny a simple fact of thousands of years standing I am forced to acknowledge that either you don’t have one, or you might as well go ahead and have it cut off.

    It is a sin simply to make a graven image, never mind actually possess it.

    Did they teach you anything but “gender studies” at Yale?

  12. “never read the links I post the first time ”

    You didn’t post those particular 4 to me before. I’ll skim through. Though I will not become convinced the baby daddies I’m referring to were, are or will ever be “alpha” by any measure.

    It has nothing to do with morals. All the talk of game here has to do with becoming more masculine, setting and achieving goals, improving upon oneself, gaining confidence, etc. You are saying these are things that alphas do/are so betas need to emulate them. Well these dudes have none of that and they aren’t doing shit to get it. They didn’t attract these women and impregnate them because of any alpha status.

    One woman said “chemistry” to me when I posed the question to her. Some people just click so I guess that’s it. Heck, one of the women had a more alpha partner at the time she got pregnant, a good looking guy openly desired by multiple women. He was much older to her yet she went out and got preggers by a much younger (than her too), not very good looking at all, penniless man who walks hunched over, can barely speak, lacks social skills and won’t look you in the eye!

    The only thing he had going for him that original partner didn’t is that he was much younger than the both of them. But is that a benefit for a woman? I wouldn’t think so.

    1. Womanese: “chemistry”

      English Translation: “He was hawt, I was drunk (and ovulating) and well, one thing led to another…”

      Womanese: “Some people just click”

      English Translations: “He was the best available Alpha at the time I was in my proliferative phase of my menstrual cycle.”

      You know how I know you’re a woman? Because you inanely believe women are capable of making cogent decisions about who they should fuck and who they should marry.

  13. “It is a sin simply to make a graven image, never mind actually possess it.”

    The Abrahmic faiths have that concept but it refers to making a divine image, one to be worshipped, not any image at all, otherwise Aisha would not have been allowed to play with her dolls.

  14. MadYaleGirl – “Aisha would not have been allowed to play with her dolls.”

    Playing dress up with her husband’s unit is foreplay, not paying with dolls.

  15. “I google imaged the Upton chick….*snip* Flat asses that get fat get wide. *snip* Common feature for her ethnic group. Not a good look.

    More evidence this is PJ.

  16. OK Rollo, read all 4 and none of it applies to the situations I’m faced with. No worries mate.

    Rollo says “So we get a wide variety of what makes a man Alpha – he’s the guy of high moral character, princely ambition and integrity, as well as the self-important cad banging his wife and “their” girlfriend. They are BOTH Alpha.”

    Yeah neither of these scenarios applies nor does the other stuff. The baby daddies I know just aren’t alpha, though a few of the provider mates are.

    Plus Roissy thinks all black guys are alphas just by virtue of being a minority in this country. I remember he had a post about an unattractive chubster white woman and her harem of skinny black students. Those kids were “alpha” because, because….. because… they were black!!!

    BRING DA MOVIES!

    Chemstry

    Translation: “He was hawt, I was drunk (and ovulating) and well, one thing led to another…”

    — Right . But there’s no “alpha” there, is there?

    Besides, these women don’t drink. And the baby daddies are not “hawt” (one was a lanky teenager 10 years younger, the other a bum looking type 18 years younger). But the ovulation may have played a part. I know one was living for years with a very attractive, popular with the ladeeez man and never got preggers once, but one winter away and she comes back pregnant with an unnattractive loser’s baby!!!.

    Womanese: “Some people just click”

    English Translations: “He was the best available Alpha at the time I was in my proliferative phase of my menstrual cycle.”

    — He wasn’t alpha. He was homeless and living in her house.

    Anyway, we’ll agree to disagree on this. You don’t know these situations. And you are wed to a theory. Like religious people cannot be reasoned with or expected to analyse their religions objectively, people who insist anyone who gets a woman preggers must be “alpha” similarly cannot be expected to reason out objectively.

    There are alphas out here. You know them when you meet them. The baby daddies I know aren’t it.

    Peace man. I’m leaving this topic.

    1. @SFC Ton

      “a substitute for a robust and masculine life. And I mean masculine, unrepentant, unreconstructed raw masculinty and masculine pursuits”

      Amen to that

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SKfXsJlR5A4

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K7pdu5hWARM

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_43F2RsHHL0

      @Rollo
      “Because you inanely believe women are capable of making cogent decisions about who they should fuck and who they should marry.”
      Another reason I am ignorant

  17. zdoiz,

    “If I was single again and I couldn’t lock down a woman this attractive or close to it I’d go MGTOW. I’m not going to perform for anything less. Translation: If someday I became single that’s the way I would probably stay.”

    “Tony Robbins is a zillionaire and his wife is incredibly hot. But there are firemen in my city with wives this hot. After a certain point money doesn’t change the equation much.”

    Did you ever attend any of his retreats? I was part of the circuit. Things started getting weirder and weirder when this “Sage” (not her real name) lady came on the scene and started stalking him, while she was married to a Texan, and while he was still married to Becky. They both did their spouses wrong and their excuses for it were lame. Unethical.

    Then the whole ONENESS blessing/deeksha scam.

  18. @Rollo

    Hey, thanks for your response. I found the catch and the business you are trying to make out of here. Good luck with that!

  19. Tony Robbins, fwiw, was an interesting case. His first wife was something like 18 years older than he was, and he married her very very early in life. She’d been divorced twice, with three kids. He had a son with a girlfriend outside of his marriage before they divorced.

    He has some interesting stuff…I’ve read his recent book on Money, Master the Game. Recommend it for folks who don’t have a lot of background in finance (I can’t speak for people that knowledgeable as I am not), it was very informative to me.

    1. @SFC Ton

      “a substitute for a robust and masculine life. And I mean masculine, unrepentant, unreconstructed raw masculinty and masculine pursuits”

      Amen to that

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SKfXsJlR5A4

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K7pdu5hWARM

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_43F2RsHHL0

      @Rollo
      “Because you inanely believe women are capable of making cogent decisions about who they should fuck and who they should marry.”
      Well… Gonna focus on approaching and leave it at that.

  20. “Your wife’s job is to hurt you and your job is to love her” while encouraging the wife to hit him and encouraging the husband to “be a man” and take it!!!! The crowd cheers….

  21. Do you know any men who use the term “preggers” for pregnant. I don’t.

    I spotted MYG as a ladytroll several threads ago, and I haven’t seen anything further to convince me otherwise. No harm, no foul for her posting on this forum, but she shouldn’t misrepresent herself and expect not to be harshly called out for it and subsequently bitch-spanked for obvious chick trolling.

  22. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSqMO7WuPGs

    I think all of us have either acted like or are acting like the wind up man above. I know I have. It is as if the “red pill” winds us up and releases us to sometimes flip about; awkwardly flopping all over ourselves and each other, flailing around with no meaningful bearing. The red pill is a beta suicide pill and the flopping around is death convulsions.

    Enlightenment shatters our misconception of reality. We cannot reconcile ourselves without pain and struggle. Consequently we try to avoid facing ourselves; make claims based on false hopes and ego and attack each other, patronize each other, etc. I think this is natural and must be expected and accepted for what it is before we can move on and make lasting individual personal permanent changes. Maintaining the discernment and self-awareness necessary to stay on track isn’t always easy.

    Anyone who is participating here without reading both books carefully, studying the blogs and other materials referenced is cheating themselves.

  23. Re: fashions

    I recently saw a tank top in a store, definitely for girls but a bit masculine-colored. It was called the ‘boyfriend tank,’ the idea being I suppose that the girl was supposed to look like she had borrowed her boyfriend’s clothing.

    Imagine marketing that schtick to men – ‘girlfriend shorts!’

    Where would you put your junk?

  24. Lol @ MYG’s ideals about what should be alpha.

    I’ve mentioned a girl before – nice, pretty girl, good job – who is inextricably bound to an immigrant dishwasher from a local bar. Twerpy, average-looking, smokes pot and plays video games in his downtime, no real social skills. She briefly contemplated leaving him after he strangled her for the third time, but changed her mind a day later. Soon after she ‘accidentally’ got pregnant and last I heard won’t shut up about what a great father this douche will clearly make.

    Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic. Part of that mindset is not thinking twice about anything you do, whether due to stupidity or competence. Pussy doesn’t know the difference.

    1. Self surgery

      Overbearing mother

      http://failuresforgodesses.blogspot.com/2010/01/jack-donovan-on-mother-may-i.html?m=1

      On being male

      http://www.rooshv.com/you-did-this-to-me

      It’s better to be in the arena, getting stomped by the bull, than to be up in the stands or out in the parking lot.
      Steven Pressfield, The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks & Win Your Inner Creative Battles
      No one can change but me their is nothing about the world I wanna change but me.
      I remember reading about Kurt cobains death the shirt he was wearing before he shoot himself had “I hate myself and I wanna die” he’s bandmate was chris who plays bass noticed and said something such as “you really shouldn’t wear that” he just responded by saying something along the lines of “but it’s true”
      It’s relatable because that was me for such a long time.
      What helps is being with men.
      Nothing less nothing more.

      @Forge the sky
      “Part of that mindset is not thinking twice about anything you do”
      Amen brother forge amen…

  25. @Forge

    Part of that mindset is not thinking twice about anything you do, whether due to stupidity or competence.

    This is an incredibly hard thing for me. The “curse of intelligence” as my therapist calls it. I can analyze any subject from any number of angles, and so my examines every single subject from every single angle it can conceive of all the time.

    This has been one of the biggest challenges for me to try and overcome. I know it’s valuable sometimes, but for most of daily life it’s just a gigantic fucking handicap. My head is just full of useless shit it constantly wants to go over and over again for no reason.

    Definitely makes the Alpha mindset a hard thing to reach for me.

  26. ” Part of that mindset is not thinking twice about anything you do . . .”

    And if turns out to be wrong in some way, well, do something else.

    “I think Amy Schumer’s comedy show could be improved if she would consider including jokes and humor in it.”

    Quaint.

  27. @Sun Wukong

    Ya, I’ve got the same thing. Damn brain never wants to shut up. It doesn’t help that I’ve got a writer’s instinct to constantly edit my phrases and wording, even as I’m saying them; if I don’t break myself out of that, I actually get a bit of a stutter, ha. It’s all overthinking.

    But I can break it. I’m actually a good conversationalist, and a very good public speaker, once I do. It can be a huge shift, really.

    Our society currently over-encourages this sort of careful thinking. From a young age we go to school and incautious, instinctive, and impulsive behavior is punished, and careful, meticulous behavior is encouraged. That just makes it worse for the more….intellectually endowed.

    I’ve sometimes thought – what would a person like me be in an older society? A bard, thinking up poems and tales on the fly, playing music to suit his thoughts? A witch doctor, using lore and charisma to maintain the health and social fabric of the tribe? Both utilize the core competency of a social humanity – far more so than the ascetic, castrated focus of modern academics.

    My first post in this thread (near the bottom of the first comment page) was as vivid as it was because it was basically trying to tell people what has helped me, personally, to break this cycle of behavior. I can still access the sort of state where I analyze things from all angles, etc, but I can also sometimes access a state where I just don’t give a fuck.

    Frankly, some of this is related to anxiety levels as well as intelligence though. Think of this – OCD is an anxiety disorder, the sufferer has to think fifty times about washing their goddamn hands before they feel like they can move on. A much lower level of anxiety just leads to people thinking over every decision and thought from every angle before moving on, lol. You don’t realize you’ve been doing it until you stop (even if temporarily).

  28. @ Diplomat – Some of MadYaleGrad’s language I’ve pick up on has some Aussie slang here and there. “preggers” is fairly common (and stupid) Australian slang for pregnant.

    @ MYG – have we fucked before? Is your real name Lisa?

  29. Also, it really helps to have a father who owns a supplement company. Where each product has been clinically tested to work on some people, so as to winnow out the bullshit a priori. And to only suffer abuse from an older brother in the context of a loving family, rather than having an abusive parent.

    I read the stories some men post here, and I’m humbled by the strength against adversity I see. I’m very grateful to be reminded how good I have it, all things considered.

    Welp, I’ve had a few whiskeys now, maybe I’m just getting sappy lol.

    1. @Forge the sky
      “And to only suffer abuse from an older brother in the context of a loving family, rather than having an abusive parent.”
      Hey I approached 6 girls today
      @Forge the sky
      I grew up with women and was seriously hurt by them. They where both physical and emotionally hurtful
      I would have had a brother as well but my mom had a miscarriage and told me before my dad found out which ironically ended up getting me really beat up physically because my farther felt my male presence caused the stress for my mom to lose him.
      What I am getting at is being around a brother or another male helps pull you away from blue stuff and more in the direction of red stuff.
      It helps build confidence as well. I was shit tested so often by my own family that even when my dad would mock me as a female. I would at times scream in agony over his constant belittlement and religious convictions. One thing my dad and mom did was rob me of learning true rejection on a social scale. Try would compare me to Jesus all the time and it was hard to have male dominance while feeling attacked all the time. Looking back I wouldn’t change a thing. Nothing is a matter but myself and what I choose. It just hurts because unlike having an older brother I had a sister who at 16 would call me and tell about her plans an having an aborption which as a male even at 27 I am sad to remeber because it was passé. It’s weird my mom was far more conservative than my dad who was super liberal. It was funny because it was all a losing battle in the end we are who we are based off are behavior.
      Bringing up anything from this blog is social suicide. In a public situation… Also I have that when. People try to attack me now with the work I have done on myself I don’t fight I don’t let it get to me. I move on
      It’s why I am here

  30. @ Forge the Sky
    Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic. Part of that mindset is not thinking twice about anything you do, whether due to stupidity or competence. Pussy doesn’t know the difference.

    I’m not sure if I completely agree with that line of reasoning based on this data point.

    The average woman in my city is far more attractive in wealthy neighborhoods than middle class neighborhoods. In poor neighborhoods there are hardly any attractive women at all.

    And yet poor neighborhoods are chock full of men that ooze attitude and masculinity. Step out of line and these guys are ready to fight. They know how to fix a truck and they think it’s funny to stare down other men. A lot of people might call that Alpha. By contrast wealthy areas are filled with polite nerds. These guys don’t want to get punched. They know when the next HOA board meeting is scheduled. They play golf on the weekend, drink wine and know the price of Arugula.

    If masculine attitude is everything that’s quite a disconnect. Women are competing against each other based on looks to attract the guy that wears Dockers and a nice sweater to work.

  31. @zdr01dz

    I think Amy Schumer’s comedy show could be improved if she would consider including jokes and humor in it.

    Perhaps removing herself from it would remedy the situation.

  32. @zdr01dz

    Again, AF vs BB.

    There’s a dualistic mating strategy going on in the background here. For a high-class/pretty woman, it can often make more sense to lock down a socially laudable BB man than to publicly trumpet the AF that turns her on. She might even be contented by the trade-off – social status, comfort, and general validation at the expense of tingles – but it doesn’t mean that she’s not more viscerally attracted to the lowlife tattooed thugs that catcall her when she takes her recumbent bike down to the soup kitchen.

  33. @ Sun Wukong
    Perhaps removing herself from it would remedy the situation.
    Test pattern would by funnier than most of her YouTube clips. Then again maybe I’m missing something. Right now she’s the “it” girl but to me… meh.

  34. @rugby

    Hey man, good on you for the approaches. Any closes? Would have aimed for a similar number but a thunderstorm crashed my social plans, lol.

    And I don’t bring up my brother in a ‘poor me’ sense, the point is I recognize how good I have it, relatively speaking. But my older brother is a) gay; and b) suffering from a personality disorder, so I’m afraid your visions of learning so much from a male peer may not quite apply here.

    1. @forge the sky
      Check it out
      So I wrote this letter to myself on whole body harvesting in my deepest blue pill stage age 24
      My sister came in my room and called the cops on me.
      The next morning I woke up and got handcuffed by the police in my parents house and taken to the hospital.
      They put me in the Phyce ward and termed me bi polar…
      It’s funny
      No hilarious
      I got made fun for being male than the moment I try too ale my life by given the world my body through whole body harvesting (only used that because when in saint George Utah I meet a coroner who worked an seven body’s that where harvested.)
      I grew closer to the red pill…
      The more i was attacked the more I realized I wasn’t the weird one.
      Side note high school reunions are great places to realize what game is…
      Went to one two years ago and found so many miserable people. Its as if Rollos chart matchs up to the dot.
      I respect myself more for my needs now that I am away from my family.
      As for shit testing I remove myself.
      I tried to hug my sister after she went in a rage and started beating on me an she called the police because she assumed I would attack her.
      Got handcuffed for that as well…
      It’s weird the very people I went to help to growing up would humiliate me openly. So I embeaced that pain. I slept with it I fucked it I eat with it.
      Now at 27 I am away from it. It’s still their in the world but I am moving within the dreams of my life with grace and balance.
      Another side note at a dinner once my mom humiliated me for trying to explain game while in high school. I was called a misogynyist and a bunch of other names… I walked out and didn’t come home for awhile…
      Almost a week…
      Every moment of despair I would attempt to counter with nature. Nature is the red pill
      It doesn’t give a fuck about your life or story it wants you to learn.
      It didn’t care about your DNA as long as your RNA passes with your DNA into a Virginia
      However you get to that is the society in which we live.
      What makes me happy is just knowing Roosh Heartise and Rollo are alive and not behind bars somewhere for explaining to men that it’s not them its a system that’s imposing dehumanizing principles on men.
      Could use some rest
      By the way a great pick up line I came up with is
      “What’s your name?” Not sure why but people love talking about them selfs.
      With gratitude
      Rugby

  35. @ Forge the Sky
    Again, AF vs BB.

    I have no doubt that AF/BB is a real phenomenon. It absolutely does take a certain degree of Alpha attitude to hold a woman’s interest. But I think the fact that pretty women compete against each other to avoid poor men indicates something.

    A) Being Alpha isn’t everything.
    B) From a female point of view Alpha is more than just personality.

  36. @zdr01dz

    Women generally aren’t funny because they don’t have to be. She’s no exception.

    Honestly chicks that think they’re “funny” are usually obnoxious to date anyway. Their humor is usually just poorly timed and feels very try hard-ish. It’s more a turn off than a turn on.

  37. “I have no doubt that AF/BB is a real phenomenon.”

    Oh for sure it is. But so is OF/BB: omega fucks/beta bucks. And sometimes even OF/AB: omega fucks/alpha bucks.

  38. zdr01dz

    I think it’s more that it takes a certain amount of AF to have a woman’s interest in the first place.

    But my point is, this isn’t a dogmatic binary. The RP realization isn’t that women chase douchebag alphas. The RP realization is that woman have a dualistic mating strategy (which at least flirts with mutual exclusivity between AF/BB).

    Women are absolutely drawn to beta traits. And that attraction isn’t just an illusion, it isn’t any less real than their draw to AF; the dynamics are just different, they’re more pragmatic. But it’s important to realize that no degree of BB will just start converting over to AF. Men like to imagine that their pragmatic, rational accomplishments and contributions will add to their woman’s attraction to them, but it just won’t. AF and BB are separate.

    So ya, cute girls marry stable schlubs. They just don’t tend to fuck them on the hood of their Monte Carlo in the high school parking lot.

    I saw your comment earlier about your LTR. I’m really glad it’s working out for you, I see the same thing in my parent’s relationship. I suppose I’m trying to figure out how some relationships end up like that, and others, in spite of white-hot initial attraction, don’t. Is it just the (perception of) alpha, or is there some other factor? I haven’t yet found someone who knows, lol.

  39. @Forge

    Women are absolutely drawn to beta traits. And that attraction isn’t just an illusion, it isn’t any less real than their draw to AF; the dynamics are just different, they’re more pragmatic.

    The reason that every guy focuses on the AF side though is that we all want to be the guy she’s wet for. We all want the wild monkey sex. We all want to feel like we’re really really really wanted in the sack instead of having to beg for it, because men need sex in a way women will never understand.

    TRP teaches about the dualistic strategy, but almost every guy that learns about it reflexively says “Well fuck all that Beta stuff right in the ear. I want what the Alpha gets.”

  40. So MYG, Tony reads Heartiste and steals his ideas to make millions. Someone should let Heartiste know.

  41. @ Forge the Sky
    I see the same thing in my parent’s relationship. I suppose I’m trying to figure out how some relationships end up like that, and others, in spite of white-hot initial attraction, don’t. Is it just the (perception of) alpha, or is there some other factor?

    Well here are some data points.
    A) I’m short
    B) I’m not handsome
    C) No woman ever turned her head to get a better look at me. Ever.

    I’ve proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it can be done without good looks. I do have solid game so at least that’s something.

    I think it comes down to 1 thing. I fit the female Self+1 attraction model. Relative to my wife I’m taller, stronger, smarter and have more social status. On an instinctive level I look good to her.

    I’m a pathetic 5’7″ but my wife is only 5’4″.
    I’m a guy and I lift weights so I’m much stronger than her.
    I have a roughly 135 IQ and my wife has a 120 IQ.
    I own 2 businesses so I make a lot more money than she ever could.

    As far as hypergamy is concerned my career has slowly ascended over the years. She’s moving up in the world by simply staying with me. She might not want to admit this but I’ve noticed that the better I do the better she treats me.

    She brings the important girl stuff to the table.
    A) She’s thin and attractive
    B) She happily tends to all of the mom, family stuff

    Beyond that we both have easy going personalities. In 25 years I’ve never yelled at her. Not that she didn’t deserve it 100 times.

    That’s the recipe that has worked for me.

  42. @ Sun Wukong
    We all want the wild monkey sex.
    When I was young I used to think the way to please women was through outstanding technique. DUMB! The truth is it doesn’t much matter what I do. If I’m genuinely into it she gets turned on.

    Getting hot monkey sex is easy. You want it, just take it. Women love to be desired and they love dirty talk while they’re being taken.

    All of this assumes you’re already in a relationship, hehe.

  43. @ Forge the Sky
    Wait a minute, one more possibly important data point.

    When I started dating my wife she had just turned 18. I was 20. She was a virgin. There are some studies floating around the man-o-sphere that indicate that the more sex partners a woman has had the more likely a marriage will end in divorce. She’s only had me.

  44. @ Mad Yale Grad

    You could probably help these poor young men out by throwing them a blowjob or two. They probably didn’t teach you that at Yale, I guess.

  45. I think Amy Schumer is funny (kind of). But:
    1) There’s too much Amy (a good 20 pounds too much)
    2) She’s a one-tick pony
    (there’s only so much a person can milk from the “I’m a slut! Get it?” punchline and that once-bountiful teat is a saggy, flabby, empty teat now…Chelsey Handler overused it first)

  46. Thanks zd01dz, that’s helpful.

    And yeah, technique is really only window dressing. And if thinking about technique takes you out of the moment, quite harmful, lol.

    Men and women are similar in this respect – we both want the upfront, passionate, unpremeditated desire of our sexual partner – not some preset bag of tricks designed to elicit our approval.

    1. @Forge the sky
      “Men and women are similar in this respect – we both want the upfront, passionate, unpremeditated desire of our sexual partner – not some preset bag of tricks designed to elicit our approval.”
      Makes me think of “just gets it”

    1. Funny how men are “kidults” if they don’t man up and marry post-Epiphany phase women.

      Then it’s a ‘crisis of masculinity’, yet Kate Bollick gets national book deal for Spinster and lucrative lecture engagements for promoting women never get married and be happier for it.

      The Feminine Imperative can’t get its narrative straight.

  47. Kate Bollick’s basic precept is that a woman doesn’t need a husband. What she needs is a rich father and a string of wealthy boyfriends that she can extract resources from.

  48. @zdr01dz

    The headline of that article should be, “Masculinity crisis is leading to porn and videogame addiction.”

  49. Let me rewrite the second part too:

    “Feminism and the general devaluing of men leaves men hopeless about finding intimacy or a place in society, and prone to retreating into excess gaming and online pornography”

  50. @Rollo

    The Feminine Imperative can’t get its narrative straight.

    Proof that it’s not a conspiracy, just an alignment of incentives for hundreds of millions of women living in denial of biological reality.

    @Softek

    The headline of that article should be, “Masculinity crisis is leading to porn and videogame addiction.”

    Bingo.

  51. @Softek:

    Never trust a man who attempts to knock his arrow of causality the wrong way ’round.

    @Rollo: “The Feminine Imperative can’t get its narrative straight.”

    Certainly not, that would ruin everything.

    1. @Solftek
      “The headline of that article should be, “Masculinity crisis is leading to porn and videogame addiction.” ”

      You looking at the history of manwin and Fabian Thyman buying as much porn as possible an profiting off it from 2007 to now and it’s incredible.

      You look at hunting laws in the most liberal states and it’s another wonder.
      You look at kids getting detention for bringing knives or getting up and you wonder?

      I really think it’s been a huge detriment for boys going through puberty to deal with a huge backlash of having balls and a penise and get berated for being male and using both porn and games to escape into.

      I am moving far away from both as much as I can but so many are disassociating from the world we live in.

  52. http://imgur.com/amaFm7d

    The subtext of this cover is that Kate is attractive enough that she doesn’t need a husband. A woman of her beauty still has access to male resources. The Amazon reviews confirm this.

    If you grew up in a privileged elitist household where a routine summer vacation involved vacationing on islands off the North East coast – while your parents played tennis all day on clay courts – perhaps you will enjoy this. This book is one big contradiction and a thinly veiled attempt by author Bolick to prove herself a far superior being than the average intellectual. Bolick opens the book by explaining that she was quite popular in highschool. Then when to college and that’s when she was taken down a peg and lost her Queen Bee status – this feels like quite the stab at regaining that hold – unfortunately she does it by throwing old bosses and old boyfriends gleefully under the gold plated tires of her father’s Bentley.

    …she also made several references to the fact her father has financed her whole life and will continue to do so – most women do not have such luxury of “finding themselves” leisurely knowing they have a huge net to catch them at anytime.

    She only dates men who come by wealth by way of family heritage, which gives the men she dates time to ready and write poetry, paint, discover themselves. It’s quite hysterical and perhaps this is why she has so much trouble with men; she can’t find any real men who understand that workboots aren’t a fashion statement.

  53. @ Softek
    “Feminism and the general devaluing of men leaves men hopeless about finding intimacy or a place in society, and prone to retreating into excess gaming and online pornography”

    Bingo! Society was banking on the fact that once all the male incentives were removed men would keep producing just the same. Sorry, humans are rational.

    1. @zdro1dz
      “Bingo! Society was banking on the fact that once all the male incentives were removed men would keep producing just the same. Sorry, humans are rational.”

      Makes me think of this

      “We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects.”

      “A man thinks that by mouthing hard words he understands hard things.”
      Herman Melville
      The tale must be rehearsed–and we may amuse ourselves imagining how things must have been, often, acrimonious, or at least in dispute. Whose version of events is going to be committed to memory by the Memories?
      Doris Lessing, The Cleft:

  54. Forge the Sky.

    “But my point is, this isn’t a dogmatic binary. The RP realization isn’t that women chase douchebag alphas. The RP realization is that woman have a dualistic mating strategy (which at least flirts with mutual exclusivity between AF/BB).”

    I agree that some women display a dualistic mating strategy and that it is not a binary of AF/BB only. All the cases of baby mamas were omega fucks/beta bucks that I know of.

    Many women do not display a dualistic mating strategy at all. Heck there are millions of women who even have one partner their entire lives.

  55. DeNihilist

    May 9th, 2015 at 1:55 am

    So MYG, Tony reads Heartiste and steals his ideas to make millions. Someone should let Heartiste know.
    ____________________________

    No. Both Tony and Heartiste, and RSD, and, and, and… get a lot of their stuff from Deida.

  56. “You look at hunting laws in the most liberal states and it’s another wonder.”

    I let my license lapse before the laws changed, didn’t save an old copy, so when I went to renew I had to take the hunter education course.

    A good deal of time was spent trying to instil in us the idea that our rifles were not weapons and should never be referred to as such, and that we should take precautions in transporting and handling them, because we could still be prosecuted for perfectly lawful behaviour – like carrying a gun case to the car if it “alarmed” someone.

    1. @kfg
      Steven Rinella
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J2N0Utg7KYE

      The hunt the game the rules and what you learn vs SJW imposing manmade
      Ideals vs natures

      http://www.stevenrinella.com/2011/03/thoughts-on-anti-hunters/

      Maybe stalking the woods is as vital to the human condition as playing music or putting words to paper. Maybe hunting has as much of a claim on our civilized selves as anything else. After all, the earliest forms of representational art reflect hunters and prey. While the arts were making us spiritually viable, hunting did the heavy lifting of not only keeping us alive, but inspiring us. To abhor hunting is to hate the place from which you came, which is akin to hating yourself in some distant, abstract way.
      Steven Rinella, Meat Eater: Adventures from the Life of an American Hunter

  57. Lol, that review of ‘Spinster’ is hilarious. I actually think it does a good job of showing how much the current ‘don’t need no man’ model of feminine thought hinges upon the assumption of abundance.

  58. “Bingo! Society was banking on the fact that once all the male incentives were removed men would keep producing just the same. Sorry, humans are rational.”

    – Evolutionray biologists and other scientists say around IIRC at least 40% of men throughout history and prehistory never reproduced. Because we are post-industrial, high tech and all about jobs, jobs, jobs, “the economy” and selling and consuming a bunch of stuff now, we notice. Previously it went unnoticed. What’s happening with kidults and peter pans is nothing new and its not a crisis. Its normal and has always been so.

    I found this interesting…

    WHY MEN DIE YOUNGER THAN WOMEN

    Women, on average, seem to take a little longer to die. But here’s what I didn’t know: Women, it turns out, don’t just win in the end. It seems that women consistently outlive men in every age cohort. Fetal boys die more often than fetal girls. Baby boys die more often than baby girls. Little boys die more often than little girls. Teenage boys, 20-something boys, 30-something boys — in every age group, the rate of death for guys is higher than for women. The difference widens when we hit our 50s and 60s. Men gallop ahead, then the dying differential narrows, but death keeps favoring males right to the end.

    After that, everybody’s dead.

    So Death, it turns out, is not an equal opportunity avenger. It seems to consistently favor males. Why? What is it about maleness that brings Death knocking?

    The Fetal Difference

    First off, whatever we males are doing wrong, nature seems to know about it. Because when human babies are conceived, says a 2002 study, “the ratio of males to females … has been estimated to be from 107 to 170 males per 100 females……

    But Why The Difference?

    Which brings us back to the deeper question (again, we’re talking not about you in particular; we are making a statistical argument based on averages): Is there something about being male that, all by itself, shortens a lifespan? And if so, is it correctible or built in? The most famous paper on this subject “Why Men Die Younger,” comes from an actuary (naturally) working in Seattle, Barbara Blatt Kalben. In 2002, she wrote that being a guy is definitely more dangerous, but she has a bevy of reasons why that might be, and she doesn’t choose a winner.

    More here: http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/06/17/192670490/why-men-die-younger-than-women-the-guys-are-fragile-thesis

  59. “I’ve heard that $80k is the true average.”

    The average Aussie does not make 80,000 a year. If they did, married couples making 160,000 wouldn’t often have problems servicing their mortgages.

    The average is the average across the board(the figure includes billionaires and average joes). The median income is closer to reality and that is around 60-63,000 or so.

    Anyway, the American dating rules pretty much apply to us. Fat women are increasing in number and so are their demands. Attractive Aussie men settle more and more for ordinary to ugly women. Supplication is widespread.

  60. My usual bar was a big strike out tonight. Nothing worth hitting on. Once I get moved and things calm down, I’m gonna have to look for better hunting grounds. 40 year old women and fatties are just boner killers. Really starts to make me question why I haven’t left the US yet.

    1. @Sun wukong
      Was setting up a dance just know and approached 4 really great looking women. Not all people look bad with their weight sometimes it helps me to place myself in new environments. Foreign women can be incredibly elegant I was dancing with this women from brazil and she was an HB10 she smiled an I left I got school work in the morning. But it was a great confidence builder. What helps me is dances. Women who dance care far less about feminism and more towards femininity. Well that’s not entirely correct. But overall some are able to treat their body’s very well.
      Look for the dance scene in your area and get a girl to help you dance it’s an amazing game. Maybe the only red pill game I have that I use at the moment.

  61. @Sun Wukong

    Part of that mindset is not thinking twice about anything you do, whether due to stupidity or competence.

    This is an incredibly hard thing for me. The “curse of intelligence” as my therapist calls it. I can analyze any subject from any number of angles, and so my examines every single subject from every single angle it can conceive of all the time….

    Definitely makes the Alpha mindset a hard thing to reach for me

    As I’ve said before, it’s not your brain that’s keeping you from having an alpha mindset. Analytical thinking is not mutually exclusive of alpha, or Rollo wouldn’t exist.

  62. @Jeremy

    You say that, but I keep failing to see it. Much like in my practice of wing chun, I find myself fighting to get my brain out of the way.

  63. @ kios – ABS and a few other sources indicate it’s ~$74K so add 9% super and it’s $80,845 total so I was pretty close.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/do-you-consider-yourself-a-struggling-comfortable-or-rich-australian/story-e6frfmcr-1226910189131

    Went out Gaming last night with about 10 other guys (mostly aged 30-36). I was the oldest at 43. Three of us were red pill. Guess which guys the attention of the womenz…
    Also, guess which guys were the worst wingmen and killed a few of my sets…yep the beta guys that can only approach women when they are already in a set with me.

    Still, I opened multiple sets and Gamed a 27 y/o hb7.5 half Filipino that was very receptive to my Game. Her frumpy friends didn’t cockblock me either (amazing). Built enough attraction and comfort, escalated kino (neck kiss, a few ass slaps) she bought ME a drink, I gave her a time bridge and got her number. Let’s see if I get a day 2 or she flakes.

  64. @zrdroidz

    “Society spent the last 50 years trying to devalue men and now it’s running out of beta,”

    Bingo on that. That was a take that I’ve made myself. 50 full years relentless attack on males from all angles and unlike most female endeavors, it has actually started to work. The reaction of course is to immediately double-down on the attack of men once they start to falter. The very worst aspect of it is that females engaged in the most cowardly act of war that I’ve ever seen; Attack the children of your adversary and then just wait. How cowardly. You want to beat men? Outproduce them. Don’t just strip the little boys of self-esteem and then just wait for decades. But that’s what they’ve done.

    There is also some sense of;

    “There? See? We knew you guys were useless all along. We’ve been saying that to little boys for 50 years. We’re finally right.”

    –American females

  65. @Signor Farfalla:

    The quest for social equality has always operated by beating down to the lowest possible denominator, rather than by lifting up to the highest possible.

    With sufficient beatings even the very strongest can be made weak, while the weakest can never be made strong.

  66. Rugby has a point, the dance scene can be totally different from the bar scene. Most bars I’ve gone to are all-but bereft of bangable girls who aren’t with their families or a boyfriend. The dance floors are a different story.

    But it is generally a younger man’s game, and looks matter a lot in that context.

    From the perspective of a noob, I found it to be a great icebreaker for escalating, though.

  67. @Sun Wukong

    Re: getting out of your head – I really do think this is mostly a low-level background anxiety (as well as, after decades, simple reinforced habit).

    Analogically, brainpower is like muscle. If you’ve built up a lot of muscle, you can lift heavier objects when you want to. When you’re not lifting a heavy object, the muscle should be relaxed, no less so because it happens to be larger and stronger than a weaker person’s. So it can contract more strongly, but that doesn’t mean it’s any more ‘on’ when you’re not using it than a smaller muscle.

    This all changes if you become stressed out and your muscles tense up as a result. You get chronic low-grade muscular tension that won’t release. You can, by act of will, loosen them up – but as soon as you stop thinking about it, they return to a base state of slight contraction.

    Strong people are no more or less likely to suffer from this sort of tension than weak people.

    So I don’t think being stuck in your head is an inevitable result of intelligence. It’s something that can be worked on. With a history of trauma, however, that state of hyper-alertness can run very deep.

    1. @Forge they sky
      “With a history of trauma, however, that state of hyper-alertness can run very deep.”

      Their are parts of me I am still getting over. I got a lot of work to do on myself.
      Putting myself in new situations I am not use to is the best way to counteract that.

      @Sun Wukong
      Hey what I think may help is meditation before you go out. I try that and I am still filled with anxiety. But I does help.

      @All
      Check this out its interesting
      https://www.psychdata.com/s.asp?SID=161649

  68. @Forge the Sky

    This all changes if you become stressed out and your muscles tense up as a result. You get chronic low-grade muscular tension that won’t release. You can, by act of will, loosen them up – but as soon as you stop thinking about it, they return to a base state of slight contraction.

    Strong people are no more or less likely to suffer from this sort of tension than weak people.

    Exactly. It’s your habits or typical environment that in many ways defines a default behavior. Change your habits, or change your environment and you can alter (however slowly) that ingrained default response.

    I’m not suggesting I have some magic pill or anything for it. But I do believe, almost to the point of knowledge, that analytical brainpower has nothing to do with how attractive women find me, or how I behave around them. What does affect it is when I fall back on self-analyzing in real time, particularly after an interaction that might have me questioning how I was perceived. What you can’t do, as Phil Jackson might say, is to “lose the moment.” I end up forcing myself to stay in the moment. When I find myself drifting into unproductive thought patterns, I simply force myself to refocus on a girls boobs, or ass, or face, or basically anything that will derail the analysis pattern. Sometimes she’s wearing too many clothes, or just isn’t attractive enough, and when that happens I find myself trying to dig into the conversation again for a new topic about her to discuss. As long as I’m not internally debating my own behavior, the pattern (for me) is broken.

    The familiar path (buffer behavior) of retreating into analysis to avoid what was once (as a child) perceived as an unfavorable social situation is still with me. It is breakable though. It gets even easier when I come into a situation with tons of other things about my own frame on my mind. When I go to a bar or dance club and I am deliberately concentrating on my body language, gaze, etc.. I find it far easier to avoid the old patterns, because I’ve already got a background thought pattern going, and because oftentimes those behaviors will keep me from giving a fuck how I was perceived.

  69. Rollo,

    I’m always glad to see when someone incorporates old seduction community ideas…like being the prince/prize. There were a lot of helpful concepts devised 10+ years ago, in those old ASF days, that seem to have been mostly lost with time. When I see old school guys like YaReally get frustrated on these chats, it reminds me that many newer guys are missing some fundamental ideas that the rest of us worked through a decade or more ago. So, I’d like to hear more of your thoughts on men learning to reappraise their value and “be the prize”, along with any other old school stuff you think applies.

    My two cents…I think newer guys may particularly need to put together how that “inner game” change of being the prize reduces their need for validation – and therefore, their tendency for supplication to women. Put plainly, I think some guys are reluctant to give women 1-3 strikes because they are still too busy trying to please women and be chosen by them (supplication) for the ego boost it provides (validation), which they mistake for love (oneitis), rather than truly being secure in their value (abundance mentality), leading and screening women (qualifying), and holding them to performance standards to stay in the relationship (nexting). In my opinion, this is also the true value-perception process difference between alpha and beta. It is not necessarily dependent on a man’s concrete SMV (although that helps). Rather, it is about his and the woman’s shared perception of his relative value in the interaction – and whether that entitles him to lead and her follow (alpha), or requires that he submit and hope for her favor (beta).

  70. @ Signor Farfalla

    I see you might be new to all this so I’ll explain.

    When your game is exquisitely tight and you are subtextually communicating that with how you hold yourself, you NEED to actually “disqualify” yourself to appear approachable and actually attainable, lest a young, nubile thing self eject.

    Many ways to do this, but the top 2 ways to donate the pussy are:

    A. be too fit. See, people grow to the size of their fishbowl and you are demonstrating that your fishbowl might be a bit too big for her insecurities, OR that her judgement of your subtext is wrong and you are actually the typical workout loser and potentially volatile.

    B. Tattoos. Unless the are prison tats, 99% of men get tattoos to look badass because deep inside they don’t feel badass.

    Another tip from a pro to a new mind yearning to learn, is that women sniff out (and know with great accuracy) who you are before you ever speak a word. The worst thing you can do to actually be a winner to women is to seem in-congruent or play to type.

    Is that helpful?

  71. @ Dr. Jeremy
    Rather, it is about his and the woman’s shared perception of his relative value in the interaction – and whether that entitles him to lead and her follow (alpha), or requires that he submit and hope for her favor (beta).

    As I see it if a man wants a happy long term relationship (I’m not talking about hookups) he has to bring the most important asset to the table i.e. money and financial stability. At a bare minimum he has to offer the prospect of future financial & career success. Without that she will not respect him or treat him well for long.

    So my point is this. If a man brings the hardest to acquire resource to the table he shouldn’t take any unnecessary crap from his partner. As a serial entrepreneur I can say from experience that the guy who brings the money to the table is respected or even feared.

    So it comes down to 2 things that all guys should know.

    #1 If you’re bringing the money to the table don’t supplicate to anyone. Your wealth is the only reason the deal can take place. Without you there is nothing.
    #2 As a man if you’re not bringing the money to the table you’re already in the wrong deal. You will never be respected or treated well.

    BTW I’m not saying a guy has to be super wealthy or act like a dictator. But if man earns a stable income that can support a middle class family to a lot of women that’s like finding a bar of gold.

  72. @zdro1dz

    Dude. The Red Pill, traditional masculinity, and the restoration of the American male is almost completely centered around NOT being a woman’s beast of burden.

    Lion model dude. You think I “work” (anymore)? Women will work their fingers to the bone for an alpha. You need to bring NOTHING but superior DNA and the ability to physically protect the family. If they don’t hunt, I take the kid and find a new younger model that will and you bet your ass she knows it.

    How are you not getting literally ANY of this?

  73. I hereby nominate Rollo Tomassi for canonization and sainthood for unwavering and tedious endeavors of great importance but with dense pupils.

  74. @ Tilikum
    How are you not getting literally ANY of this?
    I completely disagree with that in the strongest possible terms, hehe.

    I do not believe women will work their fingers to the bone to get Alpha seed.

    http://imgur.com/A6b9qY2
    You know why those girls are standing with Charlie Sheen? Because he paid them.

  75. @zdr01dz

    But here’s the rub in your scenario…

    If the partner in an LTR/Marriage grows used to having money, your money, there is no ironclad guarantee that she won’t still give you all manner of hell and make your life miserable.

    Money is important to live and advance. Money will keep her satisfied for a while until the Hamster gets fueled up.

    Besides, once you lock her down legally, she’ll just take half of your shit when she exits stage left.

    Besides the financial aspect, I believe men must vet the living hell out of a woman. I don’t want her capitulating to my dollars, I want her capitulating to me, willingly. If I lose everything, I want her in the cardboard box with me. *chuckle*

    Wow, the dancing monkey effect is real out there y’all.

    To bring everything to the table a masculine frame must trump money, lest ye be relegated to beta provider status. Money alone will not keep women in check. The legal system allows them to extract wealth from you if she finds herself ” Unhaaaappppyyy “.

    It is better to be financially well off, but it doesn’t guarantee she won’t be fucking the mailman while your executing the next big leveraged buyout. I’m convinced that the average woman is utterly incapable of appreciating the sacrifice, hard work and dedication most guys have to put in to make decent coin. Oh, they love it…at first, but remember women have short attention spans and narrow fields of vision.

    Frame.

    There’s gotta be some other elements other than provision and the intolerance for shit taking that can hold her interest enough that you can be fairly certain that you offspring indeed carry your DNA.

    I think Masculine Frame + Positive cash flow = Good chance at relationship maintenance. She’s gotta exist in your world, and your world has to consist of more than cash. She must value you more than money.

    That’s a tall order. It is better to spin plates or remain alone if one isn’t willing to take the time to have a woman come to you under your rules. If all she’s bringing to the table is a pussy…NEXT ( after multiple intercourse sessions of course ).

    It makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up when I keep seeing that men are expected to bring so much to the table. Bring yourself to the table. If that’s not enough ( with well practiced game ), turn said table over and leave.

  76. @ Blaximus
    I think Masculine Frame + Positive cash flow = Good chance at relationship maintenance. She’s gotta exist in your world, and your world has to consist of more than cash. She must value you more than money.

    You are 100% correct about that. Up above I was writing about the vetting process. If you show up at the table with the cash and she asks you to get on your knees to qualify for her you should throw her right out the door. She’s the expendable person in the deal, not you.

    And as we all know after marriage she gets half. The vetting process must be thorough and lengthy. In fact I can’t see a good reason to get married unless both parties want to start a family.

  77. @ Rollo
    You’re not the first to suggest that
    hehe, yep. Sometimes a girl who worked at the Playboy Mansion will end up on the Stern show. They’re all there for the cash and to meet celebs that can help their careers and bank accounts. Not so much to hear Pauly Shore’s jokes.

  78. @zdr01dz

    Yes, but show up to the table first and foremost with the correct Frame. Cash is secondary, always. The correct Frame will not lead to any knee bending qualification.

    Marriage is not such a bad deal if you…* all together now * Hold your Frame. I can’t stress that enough. Maybe I can stress it a few more times…

    No man truly profits but by the sweat of his brow. If you do the work needed to succeed in marriage, before you actually get married, it may not turn out to be a total cluster-fuck. Sometimes you may be able to course correct during a marriage. But because you are a man, the burden will always be on you. You may get some relaxation, but you will still have to lead and manage. Always.

    If you’re up to the task, I say don’t rule marriage out. Both parties wanting to start a family, IMO, is not a good enough reason to marry.

  79. @Blaximus
    Both parties wanting to start a family, IMO, is not a good enough reason to marry.

    But it’s the minimum. If a couple doesn’t want to have kids marriage (at least to me) makes no sense. Just date forever.

Speak your mind

%d bloggers like this: