I had a couple of questions from the SoSuave Forum‘s (yes, I’m still a mod there) Judge Nismo I thought I’d take a crack at:
G’ morning Rollo. I got a couple questions for you that I don’t think you touched on in your book…or I may have overlooked.
1. What is your opinion on the Celebrity Maxim?
That is, I know you see it a lot in your Rational Male comments and on this board (i.e. Would she flake out on Brad Pitt? Would she make George Clooney wait for sex? She wouldn’t confuse Channing Tatum, etc.) I’ve even used it a lot on here, usually saying you wouldn’t fall asleep if you had a date with Katy Perry, and you wouldn’t pull a last minute flake text with Kate Upton, and you wouldn’t have to babysit if you had Shakira ready to bang!
If there’s three things I’ve learned from writing in the Manosphere for the past 12 years it’s this; no matter how apt, never use an allegory to illustrate a point, never try to relate a fictional story, movie or character to a real world dynamic and never hold up famous celebrities as common reference examples of broader, mundane dynamics.
The temptation to do so stems from a want for a common point of reference. However, appealing to a highly recognizable exemplar of a dynamic only makes picking apart the known particulars about that individual a priority – not on really grasping the dynamic itself.
I see this in the ‘sphere occasionally, and I’d be lying if I said I’d never committed these sins myself. For the most part, and certainly as far as my own readership goes, I think many of the best writers and the commentariat of the ‘sphere are very intelligent men. That’s not to account for the occasional troll, but I’ve found that even an OCD troll still needs to be clever in the ‘sphere.
That said, it’s just this preponderance of intelligence that makes men take illustrative examples as face value facts. Using celebrities as examples of commonality in purpose just smacks of the Apex Fallacy.
“….the Apex fallacy is the idea that we assign the characteristics of the highest visibility members of a group to all members of that group.”
If you’re at all familiar with the controversy surrounding the Apex Fallacy, feminists and manginas alike decided to commandeer wikipedia to paste this as a Men’s Rights misappropriation of the definition, but in actuality the true definition cuts both ways. So while women misappropriate the highest visibility men to associate a totality of the “patriarchy”, men, on the other hand, misappropriate the highest echelon men with examples of common inference of a dynamic.
In English, those celebs aren’t you or me or any layperson you deal with daily. I get the inference of course, and the message is usually one about incentives being strong enough to prompt behaviors. However, what Nismo is getting at is really less about the validity of those illustrations and more about genuine desire:
I ask since it’s quite a big trope in the manosphere…
2. What is your take on the one strike rule?
You do have a 3 strikes article on Rational Male, and I did read it. On this board, it’s quite common to see situations with chicks go like this:
– She flaked on me, she is deleted.
– She stopped responding to my texts and calls, automatic out.
– She wants to bring some friends along, sorry this is one on one.I could go on and on, most of these situations often get read by red pill men as low interest, thus move on or become a beta orbiter. Yes, I do online dating and work 2 jobs, but I do have a one strike policy.
Sure, sometimes life will truly get in the way, but most men who are red pill will likely move on if there’s low interest. We all know not to waste time with uninterested chicks because they won’t put out. Heck, the sick excuse is often times a blow off, and lately, death in the family has been disguised as blowing someone off.
Zero Tolerance
The problem most men have with a Zero Tolerance policy is that you’re not George Clooney and you’re not Brad Pitt, but moreover, most men still cling to Blue Pill idealisms and the conditioned hope that women will see the “real” men they think women have a magical sensitivity to detect. Thus, they play by the script and hold out for the real desire they believe women should have a capacity for with them.
This is why Blue Pill men get angry at the 3-Strikes rule; that scarcity mentality colors their interaction with women to the point that anything counter to playing the patient, devoted, “prove-my-quality” white knightery role invalidates everything they’ve sacrificed and waited so patiently for up to that point.
They’re afraid of throwing the baby out with the bath water, and damn it, if you suggest doing anything other than what makes their patience worthwhile you’re a misogynistic prick.
If these men could pause with any insight they’d understand that any threshold – one strike, three strikes – suggested by myself or the manosphere isn’t about punishing a woman’s indecisiveness, but rather a pragmatic vetting meant to be efficient for men. That tolerance policy is about conservation of resources and time, not so much retribution (though I’me sure some men entertain that).
- She flakes on you with no counter offer or marginal reframe? –
Message: Insufficient interest - Stops responding to communications (and possibly resumes after a period)? – The Medium is the Message
- Wants to bring friends along to a date? –
Message: you are a rich resource to be exploited, or her interest is so low that she foresees a need to bring friends along to make her date with you entertaining.
The Prince with Interest
What Nismo is comparing here is really an evaluation of interest a woman has in you. I’ve gone into this in the past:
Women with high interest level (IL) wont confuse you. When a woman wants to fuck you she’ll find a way to fuck you. If she’s fluctuating between being into you and then not, put her away for a while and spin other plates. If she sorts it out for herself and pursues you, then you are still playing in your frame and you maintain the value of your attention to her. It’s when you patiently while away your time wondering what the magic formula is that’ll bring her around, that’s when you lean over into her frame. You need her more than she needs you and she will dictate the terms of her attentions.
From an evolutionary perspective Hypergamy can’t afford to wait once a woman’s filtering mechanism is satisfied that a man passes for an Alpha. Women will break rules for Alpha men and create more rules for Beta men to have access to her. Keep in mind that first part; women will make access easy for a man she perceives as an SMV superior. Hypergamy always seeks a better-than deserved SMV benefit.
So to use the apex example, no, a woman can’t afford to confuse Channing Tatum. Mix in the behavioral influences a woman’s ovulatory chemistry predisposes her to with that SMV+ benefit perception and you’ve got dilated pupils, seductive ornamentation, lower vocal intonations and an elevated heart rate – Estrus.
As you might guess, this poses a problem for most guys because, lets face it, most of us aren’t examples of this apex. Even when we make dramatic leaps in self-improvement and physical transformation it’s hard to shake our former self-impressions and our previous degrees of self-confidence.
Back in the early days of SoSuave there was a concept we’d use that I think had a lot of merit – the concept of the Prince. For many men just coming into a Red Pill awareness meant re-imagining oneself in a new, more intrinsically valued light.
For instance, after you understand the basic psychology of why a technique like Cocky & Funny or Amused Mastery works with women, personally applying those dynamics requires a man to view himself in a more valuable context.
As I said, Hypergamy always seeks a better-than deserved SMV benefit, so it follows that a man should at least reconsider himself as that “better-than her SMV” prospect. Irrespective of that being a reality or not, the idea is a sound one. In fact it’s a law of power:
Law 25 – Re-Create Yourself
Do not accept the roles that society foists on you. Re-create yourself by forging a new identity, one that commands attention and never bores the audience. Be the master of your own image rather than letting others define if for you. Incorporate dramatic devices into your public gestures and actions – your power will be enhanced and your character will seem larger than life.
And also:
Law 34 – Be Royal in your Own Fashion: Act like a King to be treated like one
The way you carry yourself will often determine how you are treated; In the long run, appearing vulgar or common will make people disrespect you. For a king respects himself and inspires the same sentiment in others. By acting regally and confident of your powers, you make yourself seem destined to wear a crown.
In Amused Mastery, it helps to actually have some context of mastery to source as amusement.
Needless to say, asking a former Blue Pill Beta to simultaneously digest a new Red Pill awareness and revalue his self-worth is a pretty tall order. As I mention in Rejection & Revenge as a man, your existence will be defined by how you deal with rejection, so for a majority of men who’ve been hammered flat for the better part of a lifetime by women’s rejection telling him to adopt the mindset of a Prince is alien to him.
Furthermore, much of his feminine-conditioned self-perception has always taught him to be self-conscious and respectful of women’s default authority. It’s part of men’s previous Beta Game to want to identify with the feminine in order to prove how alike a man is with a woman. This conditioning is really a plan to force compliance to women’s sexual strategy from men, but it’s sold on the belief that being more feminine-like, feminine-sensitive, will set a Beta man apart from other brutish men who aren’t.
When you consider his previous degree of ego-investment in his conditioning, you can get a real appreciation of the unlearning a Red Pill man must do. It’s very difficult for most guys to consider themselves a Prince when they’ve been taught reverent deference to women all their lives.
Qualities of The Prince(ss)
A Prince’s time is valuable. His efforts and attention are gifts he bestows on the woman he’s interested in, and as such that woman’s esteem should be validated by it. She is envied by other women because of the Prince’s interest in her; it confirms there is something about her that sets her apart from other women. Her role becomes one of both humbling gratitude and excited, almost childlike, anticipations of him.
If that comes off like a pipe dream or a fake-it-till-you-make-it motivational screed, it’s because most men are so inured by a lifetime conditioning designed to hold them in the role of expectant, reverent, and deferring lover if they can perform to a woman’s standards. So ingrained is that subservience that a Princess’ acceptance of a man is exalted to an appreciation of spiritual, metaphysical, significance. God ordained her acceptance of him, the fates conspired or he “just got lucky”.
Beta men, in their Blue Pill expectations of women being rational agents, are often dumbfounded by the woman who compulsively returns over and over again to the Alpha ‘asshole’ who doesn’t respect, appreciate and love her like she deserves – like he would if she’d just come to her senses. We call that guy the emotional tampon, but what he doesn’t get is that the woman he’s orbiting is locked in a cycle that only a man with an SMV above her own can induce.
Even if that valuation is just perceptual, a woman’s Hypergamous optimization efforts will predispose her to wanting to lock that man down. This is the danger of relying on apex examples of a dynamic – women must still operate within their respective frames and within their capacity to accurately evaluate the SMV of the men she can realistically attract.
That semi-abusive Jerk boyfriend she loves so much? He’s not Channing Tatum or Brad Pitt, but contextually he’s the guy with the strength of her interest.
My city my city…
[…] Strength of Interest […]
Rollo, awesome reading as usual.
I have one question, regarding a maxim of yours. It’s not quite an Iron Rule, but close.
(Paraphrasing) There is nothing a woman fears, yet simultaneously turns her on, then a man aware of his own SMV.
Isn’t there a self-evident caveat here? Doesn’t the man’s SMV have to be, somewhat high in the first place? Seems to me that a loser (who is sadly aware of such) won’t do much with the ladies.
Perhaps I’m being too binary, but it seems to me this could describe a lot of MGTOW’s.
@BlueEyes, that quote is from The Threat:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/10/the-threat/
What I’m inferring is that this self-awareness of SMV implies a man Gets It. That’s the threatening part because that awareness means he’s wise to the duplicity of women’s sexual strategy.
That SMV as an attraction is definitely contextual, but the awareness places a woman into having to play to his dominance if she wants to engage with him.
“That said, it’s just this preponderance of intelligence that makes men take illustrative examples as face value facts.” That’s not a sign of intelligence at all. “If there’s three things I’ve learned from writing in the Manosphere for the past 12 years it’s this; no matter how apt, never use an allegory to illustrate a point, never try to relate a fictional story, movie or character to a real world dynamic and never hold up famous celebrities as common reference examples of broader, mundane dynamics.” American ‘spherians cannot be expected to unplug from their beloved Hollywood. “She stopped responding to… Read more »
Katy Perry: Jay Leno jaw
Kate Upton: Used to be cute, but she’s working her way up to plus size model
Shakira: Already a plus size model – and old
” . . . it’s just this preponderance of intelligence that makes men take illustrative examples as face value facts.”
Just so we’re clear, I do it for humor, because I don’t. Sometimes I just like to get a bit silly, or take a good natured poke.
How can it be considered “faking” it when you are simply deciding that your time/attention is more valuable than someone who won’t put out? This impression that men are simply engaging in “faking” something by selecting for women who were affected by their “sales pitch” (read: Game) is fem-centric to my eyes.
There’s no faking not being a patient supplicant, you’re either operating under scarcity or not.
“The problem most men have with a Zero Tolerance policy is that you’re not George Clooney and you’re not Brad Pitt” Thank God. Clooney fans are 50 plus and Pitt’s are in their 40s. “What I’m inferring is that this self-awareness of SMV implies a man Gets It.” He might get it but what that gettin’ is depends on his SMV. A self-aware 5 is not going to get what a self-aware 8 will. There is no 10, male or female. And no amount of self-improvement or game is going to make a 3 into an 8. The vast majority… Read more »
I knew you’d be making my points for me.
Speaking of celebs…
Natalie Portman: Actress Says She Doesn’t Display Oscar Award Because It’s a ‘False Idol’
“This is literally worshipping gold idols — if you worship it. That’s why it’s not displayed on the wall. It’s a false idol,” Portman told The Hollywood Reporter when asked where she kept her Oscar.
SRSLY?!
@MYG – LMFAO. This post is very important digest. The gradients of SMV differences really matter and the intensity of attraction really matters and many men can’t read the signals correctly. This is why I suggested on the last thread in my comments on MGTOW that men who can’t approach or are incels should go after lower SMV women so they can experience what it’s like to be wanted and desired. Once you’ve had that experience, chasing a woman who isn’t interested will seem dumb. But there is a bit of a subtlety to this that Rollo commented on, however… Read more »
Great stuff. ” For many men just coming into a Red Pill awareness meant re-imagining oneself in a new, more intrinsically valued light. ” Crucial point because as you’ve stated, the near constant rejection can take it’s toll and most likely is not a true indicator of who the man really is. Rejection takes a heavy toll on some guys and it directly affects how they carry themselves, how they speak and interact with women, and how they think of themselves. You control how you perceive yourself. It’s not impossible. You always hear how women love “confidence “. Well, do… Read more »
“… will set a Beta man apart from other brutish men who aren’t.”
Makes me think of this for some reason …
Dear Eloise, I am writing to say
A number of funny things I heard today.
I heard that he left you and ran off to sea …
Could be the best thing that happened to me.
(The Hollies; 1967)
Seems to be the story of the man who wasn’t brutish thinking he could replace the man who was.
MYG: “SRSLY?!”
She’s Jewish. Read the Old Testament, or just watch The Ten Commandments. You could also do a net search on “Jewish Art”, of which there is very little and almost entirely restricted to non-representational designs on sacramental items.
You’ll find similar in Islam and Christianity from the period in which they still took the OT seriously.
” He might get it but what that gettin’ is depends on his SMV. A self-aware 5 is not going to get what a self-aware 8 will. There is no 10, male or female. And no amount of self-improvement or game is going to make a 3 into an 8 ” I disagree ( surprise!!! ). I think it’s absolutely possible for a self aware 5 to get what a self aware 8 ” gets “. It’s not an easy road to travel, but it’s doable. Positively. The ” 10 ” male or female is subjective. Many people have their… Read more »
@Glenn This is why I suggested on the last thread in my comments on MGTOW that men who can’t approach or are incels should go after lower SMV women so they can experience what it’s like to be wanted and desired. Once you’ve had that experience, chasing a woman who isn’t interested will seem dumb. Totally valid suggestion, at the very least for learning to do exactly what you referred to further down: learning to turn chicks on. I’ve spent a lot of my adult life in the minor leagues of 4s and 5s figuring out sex and seeing several… Read more »
@Jeremy
There’s no faking not being a patient supplicant, you’re either operating under scarcity or not.
Agreed. I don’t see it as “faking it” either. I see it as the first step to enlightened self-interest: realizing the value of your own time.
@Sun, To quote Patrice O’neal, Halle Berry’s pussy is no different than the cashier chick at the McDonalds down the street. I miss Patrice something awful. I always advise men to go for the lower hanging fruit to build confidence and prowess. There’s minor differences in the anatomy of a 5 and an 8. Unless the 5 is 250 pounds that is. The biggest difference is perception and how you feel about a 5 vs. an 8. Never get down over boning 5″s and 6″s. Good idea not to stay there too long, but the bottom line is, is it… Read more »
For consideration based on my observation.
Actors and famous guys are generally situational alphas, not apex. Like most wealthy businessmen, cops, soldiers, on and on.
True apex alphas you meet once a year if you are lucky and you WILL know it.
… okay, Halle Berry isn’t what she used to be, and this may qualify as Rollo’s apex fallacy, but I always like the line from Patrice.
“A Prince’s time is valuable. His efforts and attention are gifts he bestows on the woman he’s interested in, and as such that woman’s esteem should be validated by it. She is envied by other women because of the Prince’s interest in her; it confirms there is something about her that sets her apart from other women. Her role becomes one of both humbling gratitude and excited, almost childlike, anticipations of him. If that comes off like a pipe dream or a fake-it-till-you-make-it motivational screed, it’s because most men are so inured by a lifetime conditioning designed to hold them… Read more »
…. and you know about sane and normal how? You read the statistics on sanity?
” I’ve spent a lot of my adult life in the minor leagues of 4s and 5s figuring out sex and seeing several times what it’s like to have a woman really in to me despite my not being really in to her. The one caution I would give with that strategy however: don’t let it last as long as I did. You spend long enough in that bracket, it really fucks with your head and you start to believe that’s all you’re going to attract. Maybe you really are fuck ugly and useless and boring and blah blah blah…”… Read more »
@Blaximus Unless the 5 is 250 pounds that is. No woman pushing 250 is a HB5. She might have the potential to be a HB5 if she lost the weight but if you’re overweight, automatic maximum HB4 status. Obese? Automatic HB1. I got no time for LWBHs. Every guy should rule them out; no woman ever changes for the better after she’s with you. She’ll always see it as a chance to get worse. After all, she already snagged your ass, why does she need to keep trying? Steer clear of women that make you think “Well if she would… Read more »
– Could it be you aren’t fugly or useless or boring but you are an ordinary, every day, average to slightly below average man who found a happy and willing equal to share affection, intimacy and quality time with and that’s a ……. good thing?
Behold: the typical response of a feminized blue pill that doesn’t understand the components of male attractiveness to women OR that most of those components can be improved through effort. Don’t be that guy.
That convinces me, MYG is a woman. Likely one of the few commentors Aunt Giggles allows on HUS.
@Sun,
I hear ya man.
“It’s nonsense to say the vast majority of men are 5’s and under.” Five is average and the vast majority of people hover around average, that’s why its an “average”. Average is not bad at all. You can look at it as cup half empty or half full. Many people lead content and happy lives as averages. Game can improve our lives but it can’t work miracles. There are a lot of guys out here for whom it won’t work at all, like my extreme aspie and OCD friends whom I tried to help to no avail. For the “normal”… Read more »
Rollo – “This is why Blue Pill men get angry at the 3-Strikes rule; that scarcity mentality colors their interaction with women to the point that anything counter to playing the patient, devoted, “prove-my-quality” white knightery role invalidates everything they’ve sacrificed and waited so patiently for up to that point.” Being from a different generation, where the women were sexual, but for their image, most played hard to get, seduction was an art form. We men expected to have to push by their flaking. To have to prove our worth to get the bang. To make it appear that we… Read more »
” Don’t be that guy.”
OK! But only if you don’t be the guy who fills a sorry bastard’s head with fantasies that he’s going to become Super Man and consistently bed down a rotation of multiple Wonder Womans from now til he croaks.
Much of PUAism is snake oil salesmanship.
“Needless to say, asking a former Blue Pill Beta to simultaneously digest a new Red Pill awareness and revalue his self-worth is a pretty tall order.” Ahhh, yep. They call it conditioning for a reason; it puts you in a certain condition, creating like a well worn groove in your life. They otherwise call that a rut. I’m stuck there. I make, am making, forward movement, sure, and advances, but a Prince? Even with Red Pill lenses on my eyes, even when I realize I was attracting women more than I knew when I was LESS TOGETHER in all sorts… Read more »
“He said that he gets phone numbers every day. For every 10 numbers he got, 5 or 6 would materialize into dates. Out of 5 dates, 2 would end up with sex. I laughed and told him that’s not too bad. Seemed like a lot of work though. He said that it was a lot of work and that for the work put in he should be getting better results. I asked him what more did he expect and I remember his reply – ” It’s not what I expect, it’s what I deserve..”. I laughed at that and thought… Read more »
Somebody explain to me why empathetic, rational, justice-oriented, women of good character who do not want to use a man for his resources but who simply wants to love and be loved are being passed up for baby mamas looking for a beta provider for their kids with previous men? Shouldn’t the child-free good beta men be pairing up with the child-free good beta women so that they can together create a family of their own? Why are these men going for baby mamas? Sort of flies in the face of your Tao of Assortive Mating 101 (also a fallacy… Read more »
Blaximus, “I think it’s absolutely possible for a self aware 5 to get what a self aware 8 ” gets “.
I concede it might be possible. How many have you seen? At most they would be outliers.
“Sort of flies in the face of your Tao of Assortive Mating 101 ”
Yeah Rollo I’ve already stated the baby mama thing trips me up. I do think those smart “nice” beta men with good jobs “deserve” a child free woman. But one thing is that a few of those baby mamas are at least 2 points higher than their beta hubbies in looks. And one is 10 years younger than one hubbie and another one is 22 years younger!
Reverse the sexes in the ‘Prince’ paragraph you quoted and you have the expectations of an “average” woman today.
” . . . my original Tao of Assortive Mating 101 . . .”
. . . is pretty far out there on the autistic spectrum.
People do not match like socks, they mesh like machine parts – and some machines are pretty fucked up.
@MYG, All of your expertise on SMV would be a lot more realistic IF; 1.Everyone was physically fit 2. No one had passports. Then the male 5’s get female 5’s etc and all is fair. Female 5’s could be seen in the nude without inducing potentially fatal bouts of spastic vomiting in some befuddled American male 5 (likely fit, well-employed, decent, non-alcoholic, iotw an international 8). As it is, a female 8 in the US is simply someone who’s not addicted to high fructose corn syrup and can be seen in a bikini. The mismatch (in international terms) between a… Read more »
@Signor
2. No one had passports.
Hahah, globalism undermines the American Sexual Market Place. I love it.
The naivety in regards to how seriously the men outclass the women.
I wouldn’t call it naivete. I would call it a concerted effort to keep them in the dark.
http://cdn.okcimg.com/blog/your_looks_and_inbox/Male-Messaging-Curve.png
http://cdn.okcimg.com/blog/your_looks_and_inbox/Female-Messaging-Curve.png
Over 80% of men get rated below average by women, meanwhile men rate women on a bell curve. I wonder why men view themselves so horribly in this country.
Great post. The whole “3 Strikes Rule”…yes it has to be about YOUR mindset….you can’t punish someone who doesn’t care about you… Also, some girls want you to chase them because it boosts their flagging self-esteem. So they turn you down or say they’re busy and sometimes that’s a lack of interest, other times it’s about trying to get you to chase…. I look not only at the response but the history I have with that girl. If this is a girl I don’t know, who has displayed some interest and is “busy” I may re-open. If it’s a girl… Read more »
Signor Falafel, aren’t there just as many obese American men as there women now? I agree with you wholeheartedly that foreigners are more attractive.
“I think it’s absolutely possible for a self aware 5 to get what a self aware 8 ”
This makes me think of Tariq Nasheed’s show where he talks about cats rolling in poppin their collars and acting like they’re all that with a 300 pound woman on their arm. LOL!!!!
If peacocking and delusions of SMV grandeur worked, those guys would have dimes on their arms.
@blaximus “He was rejection-proof. Rejection just fueled him.” I am going to keep this in mind from now on. @Sun wukong “realizing the value of your own time.” Yeah that’s true confidence and self respect. @tilikum “True apex alphas you meet once a year if you are lucky and you WILL know it.” That is what makes this place so fucking interesting. @Seraph “It really seems at times it would be easier being single and rebuilding oneself.” It’s what I am doing now @walawala “At that point I may have forgotten our conflict but you can bet she hasn’t. Thinking… Read more »
” . . . aren’t there just as many obese American men as there women now?”
Exactly which part of “There is no male Anna Nicole Smith, or female Hugh Hefner” do you not get?
“Exactly which part of “There is no male Anna Nicole Smith, or female Hugh Hefner” do you not get?”
The first part. Because I know 5 male Smiths. My brother is one.
Rollo,
A request please: ” fucking the next baby-momma”
A post on this please., it’s an epidemic
” My brother is one.”
Post a link to one of his better known photo shoots.
How much did he net after the old bat died and the lawsuits were settled?
Glad somebody else figured out that MYG is a woman. Waiting for people to figure out that @Lone really isn’t all that bad either; just has a big mouth and has a problem articulating his beliefs. Beliefs such as: @DeNihilist “I see now that with the mantra that women can bang whenever and whomever they want, that the shame of being a slut is almost gone, that the art form of seduction is no longer viable. It is far superior to next and move on, as there is no real need to pursue anymore. Either she bangs you or she… Read more »
Some good quotes in there. I know it took a long time for me to learn what a quality woman is, and this only comes with time, experience and effort(many men lack one or more of the above). Men should experience a woman head over heals for them at least once..it will make it impossible to settle for anything else. When she breaks all the rules for you..goes out of her way just to surprise or please you..you realize how its time well spent finding, and inspiring a girl like her. And when the hot boring chick blows you off,… Read more »
one last point that I should have added to the conclusion: “Or beat off to porn”
Glenn, “I think this is why they circle back sometimes. According to some young women I’ve known, many young men these days are kind of ruined by porn and seem to be acting out some set piece they see in a video or are almost like acting or something, and have no idea how to get a women worked up. This is a huge advantage, and I think really good sex almost imprints you on a woman.” I’m dating a 24 year old right now and she says all the dudes her age are porn addicts and are horrible in… Read more »
Nathan May 7th, 2015 at 12:13 am Rollo, A request please: ” fucking the next baby-momma”. A post on this please., it’s an epidemic _______________________________________ You missed my posts about good betas with solid jobs wifing up baby mamas who had kids by jobless loafers? There are so many single moms out there, many who’ve never been married, that it has totally skewed the SMP for everyone. And they are like predators when they’re looking for a husband and father figure for their kids. I think some of these betas wife them up simply because their SMP equals, the child… Read more »
” . . .they are like predators when they’re looking for a husband and father figure . . . ”
Q.E.D.
MYG has a vagina.
Only someone with a vagina would respond to the idea of men having self-confidence with thinly veiled fear of it, veiled by flowery notions of all humans being “equally flawed”.
It is sadly trite how females respond to arguments for male confidence with notions of all humans being imperfect… and arguments for female confidence with, “You Go Girl!”
Such behavior makes me question whether women are capable of using human language *without* shit-testing the opposite sex while doing so.
lmao @ assortive mating
How many average woman you think truly see themselves as average ?
“MYG has a vagina.”
The question I’m holding open is whether it acquired at birth or at Yale.
” veiled by flowery notions of all humans being “equally flawed”. Oh bugger off. I never said that because I don’t believe in equality of men in the first place.. “It is sadly trite how females respond to arguments for male confidence with notions of all humans being imperfect… and arguments for female confidence with, “You Go Girl!” Yeah? Quote me mofo! I’m against setting men up for more failure and depression. Game works for many men who need it (I never did) but it doesn’t work for men who are seriously flawed with mental disorders like extreme aspies, manic… Read more »
Rocket, not a belief, just trying to understand the SM of today’s youth. My prime years were in the 70’s, just as the sexual revolution was taking off. Disco and all. But, the women back then, even though you could bang them, still made you work for it, mostly. If you used the rules of today, as in the 3 strike rule, you would only be banging all out sluts. We had to work for the pussy. But the thing was, the pussy was available, not like my fathers generation who had to marry to get pussy. It was more… Read more »
william
May 7th, 2015 at 12:54 am
lmao @ assortive mating
How many average woman you think truly see themselves as average ?
____________________
That’s the problem with baby mamas in the SMP. 50 years ago they would not have been in the SMP. Today they are front and center and merely because they might be a thin 7 in looks, think they’re a catch. And men are proving them right every day by wifing them up. So yeah, there’s a reason why average women and even baby mamas have overinflated egos.
@myg
“she says all the dudes her age are porn addicts and are horrible in bed.”
Thank may be true but how would you change that without pointing it out?
It’s hard to change sometimes without someone pointing out how it could benefit you to do so. It’s how I stop using porn and starting approaching. Not sure how old you are but I still at 27 feel at times as if I am 16
And just as ignorant at what to do in bed.
Blue pill 16 rugby
@Mad Yale Grad And no amount of self-improvement or game is going to make a 3 into an 8. You are substantially incorrect. Any man can find a way to win. I’m a natural 2 and growing up girls treated me like I had leprosy. During high school I had the lowest SMV in my friend group by a mile. But I raised myself up and married an SMV 8. My wife is intelligent, good looking and dependable. If you count dating we’ve been together for 25+ years and today she is solidly in the top 1% of women her… Read more »
@MYG “The vast majority of men are average to below average, 5s and under. Even when a 4 improves every aspect of his life; looks, fitness, money, social skills, etc, he will not be a 9 ever. He will be a 6 which will catapult him from below average to above average. He will then be able to attract average to slightly above average women. Which is good, for him, and a big improvement on his past. ” The problem: it only applies to men. A woman’s SMV (or her perception of her SMV) is ridiculous. You have average to… Read more »
“That convinces me, MYG is a woman. Likely one of the few commentors Aunt Giggles allows on HUS.”
I called it first! How’s about a Scooby snack? 😛
I’m not 100% convinced MYG has a hairy vulva. It could be a very clever fem-troll or, he is so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that he will fight to protect it.
You could laugh, if it weren’t so sad. There is no way in today’s society of pandering to women through fat acceptance or whatever they call it to knock them off their pedestal. It’s like the media and politics found a way to infect women with NPD. How could it happen and more importantly, cui bono?
Is it just to fuel consumerism or am I missing something?
” . . .cui bono?”
Those who think of us as their herd.
“Is it just to fuel consumerism . . .”
Consumerism is a tool, not the end.
1 strike rule; for me that’s about respect. She crosses a certain line and it’s done. However the counter to flaking etc ain’t a three strike rule. The answer is spin more plates. Do your best to have three to five chicks lined up for the same day/ weekend. at that point why give a fuck if one or even four flake? It is also a good way to deal with the reality you are one of her plates, and likely not her favorite plate. Catch, release, and re catch as BV would say Cannot line up three chicks for… Read more »
Rollo, Good post. Broadly applicable. Specific situations almost always devolve into analysis about specific actors in that situation. Which means always moving the conversation from the overall point. Parables serve a useful purpose, I suppose, but Jesus spoke vaguely and did not specifically mention King Herod or the Gracchi Brothers or anything else that would distract from his message. General message? Women screen aggressively. If a man actually passes through those filters, she will aggressively pursue. If she’s putting up or more screens or filters, she doesn’t think of you as a Prince. Which is okay. None of us is… Read more »
” . . . the actors where all pretty dead in real life, while the athletes where much more alive and a bigger draw.”
Actors pretend to chop wood – athletes get the wood chopped.
@Sun – Ain’t it nice to not be talking about politics? Lol. Spot on, and indeed I never did aim down. As I’ve said here, I was lucky when I was in my prime to be quite good looking. In fact, I’ve only had two sexual encounters with fat women in my life – both drunk out of my gourd. But I just want to make sure you also get that you and I may be very different from other guys on this thread. They need to build up some confidence and experience and also just get off the schneid… Read more »
“I’m not sure about this and the whole age difference.”
I would advise that rather than bringing up the age difference (which does work if in your frame) you bring up the maturity difference. The younger the girl, the harder she will feel compelled to prove that she is all growed up.
@ SFC Ton
True that.
In my business, I have a one strike rule because I can. If you don’t turn up for work (flake) because you had a better offer, that’s it – you’re off my books. I won’t call you again unless I am very very desperate. No lame excuses (I’ve heard them all) – As a man you’re accountable for your actions, and most guys know and accept that’s how (the work game) is.
The analogy to females and dating are eerily similar.
Celebrities are an interesting topic. I have a firm belief that women retain their interest in certain men, especially when their influence occurs early in the woman’s dating experience. Men who rock her emotionally early on (mainly the alpha males she dates) will always keep her interest at a very high level. Her interest stays at a medium level for men she has a “crush” on. Celebrities and certain boys in high school are the ones who sit at this level. She never gets that intense interest in them as she would for an alpha male who rocked her emotions,… Read more »
@DeNihilist “Rocket, not a belief, just trying to understand the SM of today’s youth. My prime years were in the 70’s, just as the sexual revolution was taking off. Disco and all. But, the women back then, even though you could bang them, still made you work for it, mostly. If you used the rules of today, as in the 3 strike rule, you would only be banging all out sluts. We had to work for the pussy. But the thing was, the pussy was available, not like my fathers generation who had to marry to get pussy.” Yes I… Read more »
@Mad Yale Grad Yeah? Quote me mofo! “A Prince’s time is valuable… If that comes off like a pipe dream or a fake-it-till-you-make-it motivational screed, it’s because most men are so inured by a lifetime conditioning designed to hold them in the role of expectant, reverent, and deferring lover if they can perform to a woman’s standards. ” It comes off like a pipe dream because sane, normal people don’t act like that. We understand that we are ordinary and flawed, and our would be partners are also ordinary and flawed. Let the record show…Rollo makes an allegory to help… Read more »
On strength of interest, a 55 year old woman
sexually assaultedkissed a younger good looking guy during the Boston Marathon, based on a dare from her daughter. Imagine flipping the genders.The daughter took to media to find Prince Charming, but heard back only from his wife who said of the kisser, “I greatly admire your spunk and courage” and “our friends have gotten a lot of mileage out of this story and I have thoroughly enjoyed watching them give my husband grief!” Dreadful wife but happy.
LOL w/ Stuttie, I view pretty much all of life thru the lenses of my professional training so everything is a tactical or strategic objective with a cost/ bend it analyze
I reckon most men have trained themselves to think a certain way/ see the world a certain which is reinforced by that man’s level of success….. wow that steers way to far into the theological for me
RE: One strike rule
Sometimes its best to discern when a girl is dangling the string.
Que Ya\Really
@Glenn, Blaximus, Rocket, Jeremy, kfg, Liz, Stuttie,
RE:MYG
Glenn,
Hear you loud and clear….Don’t feed the troll! (just scroll) It always seems to circle back to being a butt-hurt chick jealous of baby mammas…
@Mad Yale Grad
And no amount of self-improvement or game is going to make a 3 into an 8.
Human trainwreck Steve-O dramatically raised his SMV with fame. He talked about this on the Stern show. He went from a guy who girls wouldn’t make eye contact with and fat girls rejected to a guy that models wanted. He said the amazing switch took place over a 24 hour period when JackAss broke big nationwide. Zero to hero literally overnight.
http://imgur.com/B5SqMLu
Steve-0 with one of his LTRs.
http://imgur.com/w4oY2cS
Besides being ego-protection, apex fallacy is just more proof that men are the “romantic” sex, no? “If she just knew the real me, she would see I am as good or better than Clooney!” What is this, some sort of romance novel? Are you waiting for that one perfect girl to come and rescue you? The one girl that truly understands, and accepts, you and your darkest innermost feels? Barf. Some will say that you only get that level of love from your mother. I even disagree with that. My mother raised me to be a good little beta provider,… Read more »
Steve-O on Howard Stern. Watch the first 90 seconds if you can. Keep in mind that super attractive women are throwing themselves at him. Men can blow up their SMV like a pufferfish with wealth or fame. Anyone who says otherwise hasn’t been paying attention.
https://youtu.be/ffkSuS3_ols?t=15s
@Jeremy
I wonder if he meant turrets:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Kirov_180-mm_turrets.JPG
Or Tourette’s:
Chick I knew in highschool (sat next to her in band but normally kind of ignored her) later became a well known model (several times on the cover of Cosmo, Vogue, etc). After my first year of college, she meets up with a buddy of mine who was friends with her and we’re talking about her jet-setting about now that she’s modeling. This was around 97 or so, and DiCaprio was big of Titanic still and had apparently been trying to hook up with her but she fucking hated him when she met him. Couldn’t stand him, wasn’t having it.… Read more »
A visual metaphor: MYG on the left vs. TRM on the right –
http://38.media.tumblr.com/bd0d1b176c31a3ffae5af7229ab389d5/tumblr_nnidczzMe81s2yegdo1_400.gif
How to go from SMV 4 to SMV 9 using fundamental Game principles (Pres-Selection, Social Proof & Irrational Self-Confidence):
@ Sun Wukong I quite literally got a date with a chick DiCaprio couldn’t get when I was a self-hating Blue Pill as fuck 19 year old scrub. So awesome! From a strictly economic standpoint that HB9 made a rational decision. Although you aren’t a Hollywood star you might be upwardly mobile and also willing to commit. To most women that’s worth a lot more than a few dozen hookups with a guy like DiCaprio that she can’t lock down. Semen, even Alpha semen is the cheapest substance on Planet Earth. For most women an LTR has to at least… Read more »
@stuttie “or, he is so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that he will fight to protect it.” Yeah that used an maybe still is a sick part of me… “As a man you’re accountable for your actions, and most guys know and accept that’s how (the work game) is.” Their is honor and defeat that comes from getting back off the ground after you fall that is so powerful to be alive in the moment in. @Sun wukong ” I wonder why men view themselves so horribly in this country.” No guidance in really caring about yourself and… Read more »
“For reference this is the chick that billionaire Arnold Schwarzenegger was banging. Plus Arnold Junior. Even the top Alphas have to cast a very wide net when they go looking for easy sex.”
Wow. I don’t think I could have gotten over that one if I were Maria either.
@MYG thinks ADHD is a mental disorder, it’s just old school masculinity that has been pathologized by contemporary culture. You’re right MYG, game would never work for someone like me with ADHD, snerk. You are a fucking prat, go home you snivelling white knight bitch.
Arnie was so loaded with steroids when he screwed his maid that he would have humped a knot in a board. Think of when you were a teen and multiply by 5.
I’m cultivating and incubating my new self-perspective. I’ve been working very hard on this especially over the past year. Some major examples of improvement: -ONS girl stopped replying to my messages after we hooked up. Before we hooked up she would always respond IMMEDIATELY to my messages. After a few more messages over a couple weeks asking her if she wanted to get together again, and she was iffy about it, I just let that one go. I spun the plate one time and it broke. No problem with that. -ONE-itis girl who LJBF’d me last year started messaging me… Read more »
Driver, “A woman’s SMV (or her perception of her SMV) is ridiculous. You have average to slightly above average women (5s and 6s) walking around as if they are the top class (8s and 9s). The only real work (improvement) is expected by the man (as usual) where as the woman can be “as is” and her over inflated ego tells her the man (a 5 or 6) isn’t good enough (she shouldn’t settle). The idea of “settling” has to be the worst idea ever introduced to women. I’ve seen plenty of these “average” looking women out (usually overweight because… Read more »
Rollo, you really think that young guy in that video looks like a 4? Below the American average, really? Come on man, he’s above average. He’s a good looking guy by today’s standards.
@tweell Schwarzenegger’s ugly mistress wasn’t the exception. She was the rule. Edelman just won the Superbowl and for that night he was one of the top 100 most desirable men on planet earth. Here is a photo of the chick he picked up. She’s ok, but definitely not in the top 100 women on planet earth. She looks like a younger version of any of the mom’s that live on my street. Nothing special. http://imgur.com/7aFKF4v This behavior fits the broader pattern. Only 30 percent of men cheated with women younger than their current partners, and only a quarter of the… Read more »
^^^^
Sorry, links work fine but were applied to the text instead of the title.
Jeremy: “It is sadly trite how females respond to arguments for male confidence with notions of all humans being imperfect… and arguments for female confidence with, “You Go Girl!” Me: Yeah? Quote me mofo! Jeremy quotes: ” If that comes off like a pipe dream or a fake-it-till-you-make-it motivational screed, it’s because most men are so inured by a lifetime conditioning designed to hold them in the role of expectant, reverent, and deferring lover if they can perform to a woman’s standards.” ” “It comes off like a pipe dream because sane, normal people don’t act like that. We understand… Read more »
Re: the attitude of the Prince It is pretty spectacular how little you can realize that you have a supplicating frame, a low self-image. If you’ve never known what it feels like to simply expect to be respected, if you’ve never presumed people will be interested in what you have to say, if you’ve never felt a woman mad with desire for you, the whole thing seems strange – to see others do so seems almost blasphemous or hedonistic. It can almost make you wary, like the entitled man is a sorcerer or something, ha. It’s a complete change of… Read more »
Steve O ever a 3, really?
Symmetrical face with well defined and proportioned features plus a fit, non-obese body do not a 3 make. No matter how clownish someone acts or dresses.
Take a stroll through your local Walmart to see the 2, 3, and 4s of America.
@Mad Yale Grad
Watch any Steve-O interview on Stern. He’s a zero. Girls wouldn’t talk to him before he became famous.
Every man needs Game. Game is nothing more than an internalization of your life and priorities as the only barometer through which to see the world. If you have no Game, your life is a fraction of what it could be.
@Mad Yale Grad
You have a gross misunderstanding of ADHD. It isn’t mental retardation, it is an inability to focus on any task alternating with hyper-focusing on one task. The illness can be successfully managed without drugs.
You are dismissive of evopsych/redpill theory. You constantly deny the utility of game beyond marginal improvement and advocate “settling for average”. Why are you here? Doesn’t playing devil’s advocate become tedious after a while?
“Get out of your own damn head. Feel things. Notice what you’re body is doing. A lot of guys here suffer from overintellectualization. They live almost exclusively in their prefrontal cortex. As a result, they instinctively try to peacock their mind. A lot of bitterness ensues when they realize that intellect alone doesn’t make them sexy. Look, I’ll play with the dread fire of analogy here. You know how you look down upon, laugh at, or despise roided up losers who are always flexing up their perfectly manicured pecs and lats, preening them, and never using them for a lick… Read more »
“Watch any Steve-O interview on Stern. He’s a zero. Girls wouldn’t talk to him before he became famous.”
So what? He had the genetic material to become an 8. Just look at him. Plus, don’t be flighty and believe everything the media sells you.
Every famous person has a schtick about their previous incarnation. Its part of the celebrity image. Rags to riches or zero to hero mythology that the dream factory churns out.
Don’t let it fool you.
Another example is Artie Lange, comedy writer on the Stern show. The guy is a fat slob and a drug addict. But his SMV is off the charts because he is famous. Before he got fired from the Stern show there was a constant stream of hot girls trying to date this guy. This is a photo of Artie and Dana, his LTR of many years.
http://imgur.com/aGgfgyt
http://imgur.com/pUtWbzp
“You have a gross misunderstanding of ADHD. It isn’t mental retardation, it is an inability to focus on any task alternating with hyper-focusing on one task. The illness can be successfully managed without drugs.” I have a bit of it myself, Tom. I’m talking about extreme forms of ADHD, OCD, and other issues that have severely socially handicapped some of the young guys I’ve worked with. Game has not and can not help them. You have to be at a minimum threshold of normalcy for game to work. There is a non-trivial % of young men out there today who… Read more »
@Mad Yale Grad You will deny any success story or question its credibility. I’ll throw out the fable of Nick Krauser PUA and you tell me your opinion. The manosphere isn’t full of gullible rubes. We understand that moving from a “5” to an “8” is an ordeal, but it isn’t impossible. Graduating med school is difficult. Average acceptance rate is in the teens or lower. Top 10 MBA? Same acceptance rate. Law, entrepreneurship, military, engineering etc..all have high barriers to entry. Benching 300+? Most fail to hit that target. Losing weight? Single digit success rate in some cases. Should… Read more »
A troll is a troll. All she does is dodge and toss out non sequiturs.
5-6-7, the point is Game increased this guy’s SMV potential and you have nothing to counter with: