Dancing Monkeys

Dance Monkey

From the Unbearable Triteness of Hating:

16. Dancing Monkey Hate

Hater: Men who run game are just doing the bidding of women. Alphas don’t entertain women.

If you want success with women, you are going to have to entertain them… one way or the other. The same is true of women. Once a woman stops entertaining men with her body, her femininity, and her commitment worthiness by getting fat, old, ugly, bitchy, or single mom-y, she stops having success with men. We are all doing the bidding of our biomechanical overlord, and on our knees to his will we surrender, by force or by choice. You fool yourself if you believe you have some plenary indulgence from this stark reality.

Or: If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.

After this week’s post the expected debate of who are you really being you for came up. In managing your expectations in accord with the reality of women’s nature there’s always going to be some indignation for needing to do so. The perception of having to cater to the whims needs of women in order to broker some reward that’s never going to be an equitable trade is not only senseless, but it pisses off men who spend an inordinate amount of time and effort to better themselves for themselves and not be appreciated for it.

I’m cursed with a broad spectrum of interests, passions and hobbies. At the risk of glossing myself, I’ve been blessed with a lot of natural gifts and talents, and I developed the skills to better enjoy them, to profit from them and to explore things I simply find fascinating. For the greater part I don’t do these things for me, but rather because I’m genuinely curious and interested in them. I didn’t get into competitive fencing in college because I thought chicks would dig it. Nor did I pick up the sport as some “doing it for me” personal validation – it just looked like a hell of a lot of fun and even when I have my ass handed to me I still enjoy it to this day.

The outcome of having developed those competitive skills combined with the physical prowess I also developed, provided some side benefits to my enjoying fencing, lifting, martial arts and all of the other sports I’ve engaged in over the years. The good peripheral rewards are fairly obvious when it comes to physical interests, but I have hobbies and artistic pursuits that would probably surprise even my readers here.

I use those to my benefit in my personal and professional life, but some are most definitely not the things women would be drawn to in a guy. Of course, I don’t really care, but that doesn’t erase the preconceptions women (or anyone really) have of those interests. It’s easy to say, “well, that’s just me, take it or leave it”, but the fact remains that there are always going to be things you like that will never be an attraction for women – in fact, they’re likely to be an obstacle to attraction.

The Intelligence Paradox

There’s a subset of Blue Pill men who’ve bought into the social advertising that women find intelligent men more attractive. Attractive for long-term security and dependability as a provider? Yes. Arousing as a Hypergamous sexual prospect? Doesn’t matter. The Feminine Imperative likes to promote the ‘intelligence is sexy’ meme so as to have better prepared providers dutifully waiting for women once they’ve had their bad boys and are ready to cash out of the SMP.

That’s kind of bitter medicine for men who’ve invested themselves in intellectual interests they were at one time genuinely fascinated by. Once the imperative takes what it can benefit most from those interests and labels it ‘sexy’ they cease to be genuine fascinations and places them into the realm of sexual attractions. The question then becomes “Who are you really doing this thing for? To be a better prospect for women, or do you do it for you?”

Most intelligent men eventually come to realize that their interests simply aren’t sexy to women; if anything those pursuits usually become an insufferable bore to women. While the idea of a ‘hawt’ intelligent lover is appealing to the female hindbrain, the application of that intelligence is another thing entirely. Hypergamy doesn’t care about your grasp of philosophy, your love of mathematics, your Master’s degree in political science or that you can recognize impressionist painters from cubists. Hypergamy does care about your capacity to apply that intelligence in the service and fleeting contentment of women.

The opportunistic side of Hypergamy might enjoy the benefits that intelligence generates for a woman’s security, but your intelligence itself is not ‘sexy’. If intelligence by itself were a sexual predictor guys like Stephen Hawking wouldn’t find women to be “such mysteries.”

Unfortunately for most men this realization only comes after they’ve played to the script the Feminine Imperative had set for them and they’ve committed themselves to a woman he believed found his beautiful mind so attractive.

I detailed a bit of this dynamic in Compatibility:

However, I do think the desire of finding a common interest prior to, or in order to hook up with women is an interesting one. The MGTOW crowd will of course use this as a prime illustration of how men autonomously shape themselves to the ideals of women. And in the terms of living in the feminine reality they’d be right. You see, whenever a Man engages in any leisure activity, passion, hobby, etc. that doesn’t directly benefit his wife or girlfriend it’s always perceived as a waste of time. If she cannot realize a tangible result that benefits her – or by way of her, the potential “family” or the “relationship” – your effort is pointless and frivolous in contrast to engaging her, entertaining her or relating with her. Again we see the hypergamous feminine imperative of girl-world. If it’s not directly benefiting women, it’s not benefiting humanity in general.

It’s easy to apply this dynamic to something that’s directly relatable to women’s arousal/sexual interests. I covered this in Crisis of Motive; men ostensibly lift weights for their own personal validation – they do it for them – but when it’s obvious that a man can leverage that motivation and good physique to arouse women that’s when his motives become suspect:

I can’t recall how many times I’ve heard guys at Gold’s tell me the same thing as to why they workout.

“I do it for me! Yeah, of course, chicks check me out more now that I’ve dropped the fat and bulked up, but this is all for me man.”

I’ll admit, I was that guy at one time. For a guy it makes sense to cop the story of singularity of purpose since it implies that he’s his ‘own man’ and not improving himself to become more acceptable to the women he observably and admittedly wants to get with. This is the paradox of self-improvement – are you doing it for yourself or because you want to others to respond more positively to you? It doesn’t have to be one or the other, it can be both.

When your personal interests can be directly relatable to attracting women that is when your motives will come under scrutiny. Saying I enjoy reading books on astrophysics in my leisure time wouldn’t draw the same suspicions of my motives as my saying I’ve been a bodybuilder for most of my life because I just enjoy it and like to maintain my health.

Thoroughbred had a good comment about this:

JCL – “If I didn’t know any better I’d think the Red Pill is feminism for men, even though women are shit you still have to perform under the new agenda.”
See…

This is the subtle distinction where I think most of us get it drastically wrong. There is a huge chasm between performing for a woman and performing for yourself. Hell, I’m still guilty of the former at times still, but I at least recognize it now and am doing a better job of putting myself at the center of the frame rather than a woman. A woman’s love, attention, loyalty (such as it exists), empathy, sympathy, etc. are all *byproducts* of a man who unapologetically takes care of himself, his needs, his desires first. Here’s what I’m getting at… Flip the script on each of these:

“Women want alphas – become a top tier man.” — Become a top tier man for YOURSELF and only for YOURSELF. Women’s attention, loyalty, etc. will be the byproduct of you putting yourself at the center of the frame.

“Women want promiscuous sex – plate them.” — I’m married and was as blue pill as they come before discovering these hallowed halls two years ago. So, this one is modified for the married set.

Bottom line: Sex with wife sucked for years. Rollo’s concept of dread game has literally saved my marriage, but again there’s a subtle and very important distinction. When I initially conceptualized dread game it was with my wife in the center of the frame (in other words “If I use dread on the wife, she’ll want to fuck me more”). The results were meh. However, when I put MYSELF in the center of the frame as in “If I were suddenly single tomorrow how quickly could I get laid?”, the results were dramatic. The difference is this: In the first scenario I was counting on my actions causing a change in someone else (the wife). In the second scenario, my actions caused a radical change in MYSELF and in my conceptualization of myself.

Thoroughbred speaks to two issues here. A Man must place himself as his own Mental Point of Origin. In doing so he prioritizes himself as his primary importance which women find attractive, but you see the dual nature of this prioritization. Thoroughbred making himself his first priority has the effect of improving his life from an overall personal perspective and has the effect of attracting / arousing female interest in him. Does it matter what’s motivated that change in his performance?

Men must perform; and even when they’re performing as the result of genuine curiosity and interest they will make an impression on women. You cannot remove yourself from the Game. There’s a misnomer that Red Pill advocates believe all men need do is be good looking, aloof and let women come to them, but the truth is that even if you’re not approaching you’re still performing, you’re still presenting a presence that women (and other men) will evaluate.

The genuineness of your motive is only realized by you. One thing I addressed in Just Be Yourself is the you others would like to make of you:

We are who we say we are

We can alter our own personalities and have them altered by our conditions or any combination of the two, but to suggest that personality is static is a falsehood. The trap is to think that altering personality is in anyway disingenuous – there are certainly teriffic ‘actors’ or ‘poseurs’, and the like, that when we are confronted with them we sense (or even know) that they are pushing an envelope that they may not be entirely comfortable with, but there is merit to a ‘fake it till you make it’ doctrine. We only percieve it as being ‘false’, ‘superficial’ or as “trying to be something your not” when we have a concept or knowledge of a previous set of personality behaviors. If you met a likable cocky-funny guy at a club this weekend, how are you to know whether he’s the real deal or stretching the limits of his personality if you’ve never met him before?

If you have a look at the picture I used for my post Idealism you can get an idea of how men and women experience their existence. This masterfully encapsulates the mental directions of the genders. For men’s part, it’s their outward looking interests and curiosity that not only make them better Men, but also makes them attractive. Their attractiveness is a byproduct of a curiosity that is indifferent to the inward, self-importance of women.

As I’ve repeated many times, women should only ever be a complement to a man’s life never the focus of it. This is because women’s focus is primarily on themselves and once your primary focus becomes women they quickly lose interest. Men’s attractiveness lies in the results of that outward facing fascination that excludes women from its attention.

Focus on the things you genuinely find interesting, not the personal validation you think they represent. Saying you do things for you only echoes the self-importance of women’s self-focus. It alludes to a desire to be perceived as more attractive for a self-conscious awareness.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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rugby11ljh
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I just now remerberd from Suns comment that what got me into running long distance was talking to attractive girls not getting laid but getting out places that kept me moving.
Their is something so visceral about having your ass handed to you while pushing pass your comfort zones and buffers.
Just came back from a dance I neve realy did and with the red pill mindset was so relaxed that I couldn’t remerber being so happy in a long time. Going to check out 11:14

Xtianity
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@farfalla thx for the advice, i wish I had more time to work on this balance between hot and a woman who isn’t damagin to my social reputation and more importantly my own moral concerns of me falling in my own eye. I feel like a reflexive repulsion to women without grace or feminity (i.e most of them these days). I’ve had more luck in Europe and the good thing is that I have a kinky fetish for milfs (probably because they gain a bit of weight due to old age) so have been with few alpha widows. Won’t LTR… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Bang. Here comes the international 10 female as a reward for that already fun, awesome lifestyle. Imagine that as the reverse.

You know what I call that lifestyle for me? Out of shape. Taking it easy. Not working out right now. Too busy to work out.

A man’s “out of shape” is a woman’s amount of effort required for primo class A dick. Seriously, I would have way too easy a time as a woman. I’m almost starting understand the appeal for MtF trannies…

New Yorker
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Game, fundamentally, is an acknowledgement that the only thing that matters is you and that all social norms of accountability are inherently irrelevant. I have been reading the manosphere for almost 2 years since my divorce. Although an alpha in most areas of life, I was an abject beta who clung to my “humanity” and felt guilty of making myself my own point of mental origin. Only now, after a year in an LTR with a great girl, which I almost torpedoed due to wanting to keep my “humanity”, have I internalized the frame that I want. The only thing… Read more »

447
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447
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“There is not now nor has there ever been a “social compact” that highly attractive women must mate with schlubbs. Hollywood and porn might be giving off that impression, but they’re called “fantasy” and “fiction” for a reason. Schlubbs are not owed sex from attractive women just because that’s what they want. ” _____________________________________ Ummm, yes, there were? Thousands of them contracts all around the world in every culture that advanced beyond spear-fishing and lying in the sun lazily? I can go as few years back as the (standart) village where my grandparents grew up as small time peasants –… Read more »

Deep Dish
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Rollo,

Something weird just happened with my closest female friend, who is a married woman I’ve known for years. We just hung out this past weekend, at a concert with her husband.

Earlier today, I sent her a facebook message saying, “I just met a girl.” She replies, “Is she nice? (wink)” I reply, “Yeah.” Many hours later, she chastises me. “Ugh. being good because of Eric (her husband) is laaame.”

What the holy fuck? Is that the hamster I see? I wasn’t expecting a reply, much less a shit test. What are the dynamics involved?

groovecompany
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(Oh and yes, I know shit tests only happen when there is underlying desire.)

Deep Dish
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That last comment was me.

stuttie
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@ new yorker -“However, there is no such thing as a relationship with them. There is only the relationship with yourself. You are the only thing that matters and your enjoyment of any particular moment is the only thing that exists in your life.” Absolute RP nugget of gold. @ deep dish – ““Ugh. being good because of Eric (her husband) is laaame.” How is that chastising you? Sounds to me like you are a beta orbiter. I think you’re right re shit tests, but her comment wasn’t a shit test. She doesn’t like you as a sexual being –… Read more »

stuttie
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In fact thinking more about that; women must really fundamentally believe that when they’re “being good”… I.e. forcibly denying themselves random alpha cock – they deserve some kind of special medal just for not exercising her Hypergamous instinct.

Thoroughbred
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Johnny Bits… Way back at the beginning of the thread… “You see, whenever a Man engages in any leisure activity, passion, hobby, etc. that doesn’t directly benefit his wife or girlfriend it’s always perceived as a waste of time. ” And not just a waste of time, but sometimes a direct threat. Fascinating to read this earlier this week at almost the exact point wife and I had a logistics conversation about a trip we’re taking to the mountains this weekend. Convo revolved around us taking one car or two. I told her two would be necessary because I was… Read more »

Softek
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@ Glenn If you see this: http://www.medicinegarden.com/2011/02/20/high-cortisol-part-3/ I’m considering getting that test done. Canary Club has a discounted test from ZRT Labs — either the diurnal cortisol alone, or with an adrenal hormone test for another 6 bucks. It’s $125 for the diurnal cortisol/adrenal panel, which is a saliva test. I remember reading that article a long time ago and I don’t know why I never got the test done. I was taking Rhodiola Rosea for a while and started up again recently, and it seems to be helping. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19016404 I’m hoping the cortisol test and Seriphos can help me,… Read more »

Softek
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As for “Dancing Monkeys”: Women always try to claim this script. That they have to be super skinny and beautiful and perfect for men. Which is a load of BS, as Rollo pointed out in the article he linked to in the earlier comments here. Although part of me feels like that’s another example of the Apex fallacy. Considering Alphas are the only men that women truly enjoy sex with, and all other sex is literally take it or leave it and forgettable — — in order to get the attention of the best Alphas they can find, do they… Read more »

thedeti
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MadYaleGrad: Regarding Stephen Hawking and intelligence as “sexy”: Intelligence is not sexy. Stephen Hawking is “sexy” because he is Stephen Hawking. He is not just intelligent, he is off the charts intelligent. He is a super-hypergenius. He is one of the most intelligent men who has ever lived in the history of humankind. He has singlehandedly advanced theoretical physics by leaps and bounds. That’s why Hawking is “sexy”. That’s why he was able to get two women to marry him while wheelchair bound and afflicted with ALS which will eventually kill him. Loading...

sjfrellc
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I’m blessed with a broad spectrum of interests, passions and hobbies. I’ve never doubted my motivations for doing them. I always did things because of a desire and drive to enjoy a hobby. Say 15 years ago, I would be somewhat puzzled when certain of my hobbies wouldn’t move the desire meter on my wife. At the time I had two pursuits firearms and homemade soapmaking (…among many other pursuits at the time). With firearms I would acquire handguns and shoot at an indoor range near the hospital I frequented, I would join amateur competitions once a week and shoot… Read more »

thedeti
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MadYaleGrad: The main reason a childfree beta provider gets with a baby mama, either single or divorced, is for the easy sex. Jeremy pretty much nailed it. Men want pretty women who are sexual and who make them feel good about themselves. Most of the time, the single baby mama who can snag a beta provider does so by being pretty (just above average is more than sufficient), putting out early and often, and by complimenting him. That is more than enough to get a sex-starved beta hooked. Baby mamas tend to be sexually experienced, and understand male sexuality. They… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@ new yorker -“However, there is no such thing as a relationship with them. There is only the relationship with yourself. You are the only thing that matters and your enjoyment of any particular moment is the only thing that exists in your life.” When I am happy now I am in touch with so many aspects from this safe meant that I am no longer burdened by other people’s perception. In dancing I did zouk last night and I focused on my self. Two things I have control over Fashion Fitness Deep internal focus is so refreshing Going for… Read more »

thedeti
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MadYaleGrad: No one here suggests or subscribes to the view that beta schlubs are entitled to sex with hotties. I’ll go even further and categorically state that a man isn’t entitled to sex at all, with anyone, other than his lawful wife (the details of which I’m not going to go into here). That said, betas and other lower status men should at least know that they’re living in a society which is completely saturated and marinated in feminism and the feminine imperative, from top to bottom, from all sides and everywhere in between. Everything a man sees and does… Read more »

kfg
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“Intelligence is not sexy. Stephen Hawking is “sexy” because he is . . . ”

. . . famous.

Mad Yale Grad
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About class… Xtianity, ” I feel like a reflexive repulsion to women without grace or feminity (i.e most of them these days). ” – I hear you man. Ghetto culture has been mainstreamed in the US. Just turn on the TV. Almost every show now portrays a ghetto or white trash/redneck type family dynamic, mannerisms, “culture” (if it can even be called that). Its repulsive to non-ghetto, non-redneck people. If you’re super desperate, I can see having a fun, short term fling with such types but you can only LTR your equal. During your fling you might even be able… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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“All the complaining women do about men is about the alphas. The betas are forgettable. ” – The baby mamas I know all complain about the beta providers they’ve snagged to support their kids by other men. They hold these men to much higher standards than they hold the very fathers of these kids!!!! Deti seems to have portrayed an ideal personality type in these women and rationalized that’s why beta providers wife them up. Sorry. Its not what I see. They don’t seem appreciative of the beta but entitled to him. 447, I’m well traveled and multi cultural so… Read more »

zip
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@ MYG “– The baby mamas I know all complain about the beta providers they’ve snagged to support their kids by other men. They hold these men to much higher standards than they hold the very fathers of these kids!!!!” Nope. They complain about the betas not being alphas. In the end, all that counts for women ist their solipsistic notion of how a man should be, and they assess every man by the very rigid stereotyped alpha standards they have in mind. The father’s of their children at least have met these standards once, so they have nothing to… Read more »

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