Managing Expectations

expectations

One question I was asked during the Christian McQueen interview was what my perspective on a “healthy” kind of love would look like. Anyone familiar with my writing understands that, to the best of my objectivity, I try to be as descriptive as I can when it comes to the dynamics I analyze. The Rational Male will always be an endeavor in descriptiveness, not prescribing what I think anyone ought to be doing. I’ve run down my reasons for this in the past, but the solutions to your problems begin with your understanding the nature of those problems. I’ll give you tools, observations and suggestions, but my hope is you’ll use them in your life according to your need.

As I said in the interview, my interest isn’t in making Rollo Tomassi clones, and anyone telling you they have a customized plan to lead you to the relationship of your dreams is selling you something (likely a $1200/month ‘counseling’ retainer). That said, I’m going to break protocol here for a moment and see if I can provide you with some general observation about what I believe are the foundations of a heathy love relationship.

From a Red Pill perspective I’d say the first and most important thing for a man to grasp is coming to terms with realistic expectations with women based in Red Pill awareness.

In a Blue Pill paradigm men are conditioned to believe that Blue Pill goals are both attainable and worthwhile in the effort needed to achieve them. Deferring to feminine primacy, deffering to feminine correctness and essentially enabling and facilitating the ends of women’s sexual strategy are all the hallmarks of that conditioned thinking.

In Mental Point of Origin I explain how a man’s origin of thought is conditioned to default to a feminine purpose; he puts his first thought to the benefit of the feminine rather than himself and it takes either a very traumatic personal episode or a Red Pill awakening for a man to realize how thorough his conditioning has been.

I’m reviewing this Blue Pill mindset because the expectations a man has of a woman while he’s trapped in that mindset is radically different when he moves into (and accepts) a Red Pill awareness. That may seem a bit remedial for Red Pill men now, but it’s important to be reminded of how much your expectations of women have shifted since you came into that new awareness.

There was a time when you were Blue Pill and not taking a woman seriously at her word – as opposed to understanding the primary importance of her actions – was probably offensive to you. Any White Knight you encounter in life is still basing his expectations of women in that same egalitarian equalist premise that women are rational agents with an equal interest in men’s goals and purpose. The mistake being that they put faith in the idea that men and women have intellectually risen above the influences of their evolved psychology and can be relied upon to behave reasonably and in each other’s best interests.

Ironically a Beta /White Knight’s methodology for qualifying for women’s intimate attentions are still rooted in performing to the standards of what he believes is a pre-understood social contract between men and women. However, his expectations of women and how they’ll reciprocate his feminine-identifying efforts is where he’s gravely in error.

It’s my belief that Red Pill men need to come to realistic expectations of women based on their Red Pill awareness in order to come to a loving relationship with women. Accepting that reality also means accepting the differing concepts men and women have with regard to love. That’s a very tall order for men still coming to terms with the fact that their Blue Pill conditioning made them hopeful they could sustain a love based on Blue Pill expectations of women. Their idealistic concept of love has an end-goal of that concept being mutually reciprocated by a woman; this is the Blue Pill hope for love.

Love in the Age of Equalism

Egalitarian equalism between the sexes is nominally based on an acceptance of agreed terms, but love, like desire, is not the result of a process of negotiation.

What’s more ironic is that the more pronounced the efforts in gender parity are in society the more pronounced the men and women in that society cling to traditional sex differences:

To the contrary, most cross-cultural studies find nations with the highest sociopolitical gender equality (e.g., Scandinavian nations) exhibit the largest psychological sex differences in the world. You read that correctly. Higher gender egalitarian nations tend to have larger sex differences in mate preferences for Good Looks, in Big Five personality traits and the Dark Triad traits of Machiavellianism, Narcissism, and psychopathy; in romantic attachment and love styles; in sociopolitical attitudes and personal values; in clinical depression rates and crying behavior; in tested cognitive and mental abilities; and in physical attributes such as height and blood pressure[97]. If sociopolitical gender egalitarianism is supposed to reduce sex differences to the point where they “disappear,” it’s doing a terrible job. In fact, it’s most often doing the exact opposite. Without the constraints of patriarchal sex role socialization, it appears men and women are freer to follow their evolved desires in ways that lead to even greater psychological difference

It’s important to recognize truths like this because our acculturation in an equalist doctrine of gender parity is often never considered with regard to how the sexes interpret a loving relationship. How a society perceives love on a meta level is greatly influenced by the degree to which that society considers and acknowledges sex differences. I’ve stated in the past that androgyny is not a goal-state for any species – it leads to stagnation and an inability to adapt. Androgyny becomes homogeny; an evolutionary dead end, and the statistics seem to back this up. When a society idealizes a state of homogeny between the sexes that society presumes love is also homogenous.

Play with her, and play with her

I’ve mentioned in the past that revealing Red Pill truths to women you want to become intimate with is ultimately a self-defeating effort. The same can be said for women you may be involved with at the moment and are attempting to convince of your new Red Pill identity. Once you let a woman in on the Game it changes the game. Observing a process will change that process. This is known as the observer-expectancy effect, or the Hawthorne effect which is a “form of reactivity in which subjects modify an aspect of their behavior, in response to their knowing that they are being studied.”

In my perspective this is the main reason couples’ therapy, marriage counseling and Purple Pill couples’ coaching is ineffective. Those negotiations that are supposed to lead to a better relationship and a “healthy” love are founded on Blue Pill goals and Blue Pill expectations of an equalist understanding that men and women are fundamental equals with an equal interest in rational problem solving.

Why am I inserting this here? Because your Red Pill expectations of women must remain stoically within yourself.

Once your expectations of women are out in the open the process has changed. Women love Men who Just Get It, but explaining how you Get It disqualifies you from being the Man who does. Demonstrate, never explicate.

In a way I pity the women who identify themselves as Red Pill women. Not because I think their efforts are misplaced, but because they become privy to Red Pill truths and now have a different awareness of that observer-expectancy effect. The process is changed with regard to how they deal with men, maybe their husbands, and now they can no longer play the Game without some peripheral awareness that they are playing a game. The machinations of it are revealed so the context becomes one of identifying aspects of those truths and being self-conscious of men’s and their own behaviors being influenced by them.

In coming to terms with Red Pill expectations of women a man must embrace some ugly realities. Those realities that used to be denied or sugar coated with the pretty lies of the Blue Pill can rub you raw. Among others, Hypergamy, women’s sexual and love opportunism and the potential of damning a man to a life of indentured servitude are tough expectations to have to weigh against the idealistic want of a healthy loving relationship with a woman.

There will be a contingent of men who’ll insist women be held accountable for the worst of these behaviors. While I don’t necessarily disagree with that sentiment, there will always be a want for personal accountability and justice for women’s actions from men, however, this belief is still rooted in the idea that women are coequal and rational actors. That personal accountability desire is based in an equalist mindset. That’s not to say women shouldn’t be held accountable for the results of their impulses, or given license to them – Hypergamy is not itself an excuse for the worst of its consequences. Moreover, it is to say that a Red Pill aware man needs to base his expectations of women on the Red Pill foreknowledge of what her instincts and impulses will lead her to.

Conventional Love Model

I posted the following comment in response to Girl With a Dragonfly Tattoo’s recent plea for women to embrace empathy and / or sympathy:

Sympathy / Empathy flow downward from men to women and then to children. Men who understand and accept this never expect empathy from women to begin with. For that man, either a woman meets his criteria for his investment or he drops her for a better prospect.

Only in a feminized equalist society do men expect in-kind reciprocation from women. As a man, your “needs” are only important to you. Men’s disappointment comes from expecting a balanced return on his emotional investment and relational equity; this is the result of his egalitarian equalist conditioning. It sucks and it’s offensive to men because they’ve believed for most of their lives that there should be an equitable exchange of emotional and personal investments – his woman should have his needs and his best interests in mind in a like fashion that he has for her; this is not and has never been the case.

In fact it’s a recipe for failure, since it puts men into a position of neediness, and thus forces him to negotiate for his woman’s desire.

I’ve made an attempt in today’s post to address this last part. A great deal of men’s frustrations with women finds its root in an equalist expectation of a like-for-like exchange of intimacy. In A New Hope I explained how a man might cast off his former hope for a Blue Pill solution to the problems inherently created by an egalitarian mindset. I think it’s vitally important for men to keep that in mind – the source of those problems offers the false hope of a solution to those problems.

As a man it is important to understand that love will always, necessarily, be an unequal exchange of sacrifice for a woman. You simply don’t share the same concept of love with a woman. There are complementary benefits, but never assume your investment with a woman will be an equitable tradeoff. Men weren’t designed for that, this is why notions of relational equity is a real tough ego-investment for a man to abandon when he comes to Red Pill awareness.

In closing, what I find interesting in all of this was recalling how my Vulnerability post was received. That was an important post because it described the expectation of submissiveness and surrender that the Feminine Imperative and egalitarian equalism inculcate in men. Even the definition of the word was recreated to fit the doctrine – weakness is strength – and more than a few critics still clinging to that Blue Pill boilerplate wanted to re-redefine it in some way to be palatable to both the manosphere and that old Blue Pill hope. That’s the essence of the Purple Pill.

What they fail to realize is the inherent vulnerability men face in loving a woman at all. All risk, with no realistic expectation of reciprocation of his emotional investment and even greater risk of rejection for expressing that expectation – now that’s vulnerability. Egalitarian equalism always stresses the importance of men and women meeting each other’s needs to achieve a balanced loving relationship. This is a fundamentally flawed premise in the context of feminine social primacy. In a Blue Pill paradigm a man’s needs are always subordinate to a woman’s. That is vulnerability – a man putting faith in the presumption that a woman’s sustained long-term interests will ultimately serve his own.

Men will always be the risk takers in all aspects of life.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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M3
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“Without the constraints of patriarchal sex role socialization, it appears men and women are freer to follow their evolved desires in ways that lead to even greater psychological difference”

Was demonstrated in this doc very well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjernevask

The freer a society, the more free they are to follow their hearts, rather than obligations.

StringsofCoins
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Great post. This really helps helps define a truly healthy male love for a woman. I could never imagine marriage counseling could work. You can’t just ask someone to lust for you.

Bob
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“[]..no longer play the Game without some peripheral awareness that they are playing a game.”

This is an issue I think we deal with too. I believe the underlying mechanics that we now understand creates a lack of imagination. The stimulation from improvising is replaced with a systematic strategy.

D. Horrenbrand
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Great post. Somehow it’s a sad conclusion (‘Men will always be the risk takers in all aspects of life.’) and also that it seems women can only truly love and show empathy towards their own children. In a way a man can see that they are capable of doing so by looking how his wife takes care of his children. But well, that’s not an answer. Not to me. And also you don’t provide ready answer. I don’t think anyone from us can. There’s no turning back, I cannot go back to being blue pill guy again. I will know… Read more »

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Is This Thing On?
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It would seem then, that we are back to women only being good for one thing. Even now, I would like to believe more is possible, but sadly that does not appear to be the case. It’s not that men wouldn’t like for women to be more to us. They simply are incapable of it.

greginaurora
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In life, in all aspects and all areas, if something can be identified as “feminine”, it is inherently flawed, actively seeking an external fix to the preexisting problems, and any attempted fix will make the problem worse.

Women are innately unhappy. Any active attempts to make them happy will only exacerbate the problem. A woman cannot be happy on her own. But let her attach herself to a Man whom she loves, and she’ll experience life through him and feel HIS happiness.

Nathan
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“Men will always be the risk takers in all aspects of life.”

that, once accepted is liberating

Vincent
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Blue Pill = Twice the effort, half the return
Red Pill = Half the effort, twice the return

I’d rather follow MGTOW than waste time giving too much for too little in return. If I can’t make it happen with my comfort level of investment, then I need to spend more time improving myself and less time trying to ‘get’ her.

rugby11ljh
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This is confidence at work, makes me think of the cleft by Doris Lessing.

lh
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“Sympathy / Empathy flow downward from men to women and then to children. Men who understand and accept this never expect empathy from women to begin with.” Is that Red Pill enough? Sure, you’ll never get that Empathy from being weak or needy, in real need of protection or nurturing. But you can still trigger that caring instinct in women – by hurting/shocking/frightening (not necessarily physical) her. BadBoy Assholes with some “vulnerability spots” get plenty of Empathy/Sympathy. Remember Christian Grey? That poor man was used as a sex slave by that friend of his evil mother and she’ll spend all… Read more »

Stingray
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In a way I pity the women who identify themselves as Red Pill women.

For me personally, and I read other women say the same, the Game is better now. It’s more fun. The worry and doubt about who I should be and what I should be doing are gone. Open pride in my husband has lead to far more fun and excitement in our relationship.

Glenn
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Great post, wow, just so penetrating. Thanks for this. And of course, this is why we use to raise men to be tough – because we had to be. I remember in my late 20s, married and commuting on a train in and out of NYC every day, and thinking about how thankless my life was. I started out the day at dawn or before and was rarely home before 7:30. My ex was already going south on me already and I was watching my baby daughter become closer to her than me. The irony of that really grabbed me… Read more »

Atticus
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@rollo OP “As a man it is important to understand that love will always, necessarily, be an unequal exchange of sacrifice for a woman. You simply don’t share the same concept of love with a woman. There are complementary benefits, but never assume your investment with a woman will be an equitable tradeoff.” I still maintain that women are incapable of love. They merely use. The purpose of the using changes as their SMV changes, but there is no female “love”. But my question Rollo is what are these “complementary benefits” for the unequal sacrifice? Conversation? Doubtful. Loyalty? Impossible. Companionship?… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
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@Atticus, the way I see it, all evidence says children are better off being raised in an intact family. That being said, how do you manage that these days? The feminine has ejected from the old deal and a new deal has yet to truly materialize. I think we are simply at the end of another cycle of empire. It will all fall apart eventually and a new patriarchal society will emerge from the ashes. As Aaron Clarey says, “Learn to enjoy the decline.”

SigmaUnplugged
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Excellent as usual; I do however have one thing to put out there.

I know there will be disagreement and doubters, but revealing red pill truths to women has literally gotten me laid. Maybe its not the info, but rather who is delivering it and the manner its delivered. Maybe its the type of women I deal with (feminists in the bay area). It invokes a sexual rage in some women I swear that leads to impulsive action. That being said, I wouldn’t advise making it a go to play.

Seraph
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Any thoughts on having already let the cat out of the bag in regards to Red Pill in a marriage? Have discussed Red Pill stuff with my wife for years, since discovering it with the Misandry Bubble. Even got her to read that. She now sees things she did not when I point out the dynamics of other people’s relationships or character choices in entertainment. I only now get that from my perspective, letting her in on ‘the secret’ was not the best choice for myself. Do I try to put the cat back in the bag, or do I… Read more »

Atticus
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@ITTO. Everyone says two parents are better, but with Dad and Mom both working are there even two parents? I have 4, ages 20,18,16,14 and I have to say that after age 6, I made all major decisions, did school projects, corrected papers, checked homework, taught them all to ride bikes, cut the grass, etc. Of my main jobs was to keep her from screaming at them so much ( not that I didn’t yell also). I just don’t see any benefit women provide other than sex. No wonder they hate porn and prostitution. Watching the history channel on the… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
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Two parents where better. What we have now is not. I need to do more research for specifics but I believe both cases of Rome and the Ottoman empire become more feminized as their empires aged. I’d love to know more if there are any historians reading the thread.

Atticus
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@Rollo. Tragic. I can’t imagine mine being taken from me when they were little. There has to be a better way.

Stingray
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Do I try to put the cat back in the bag

No. Just do your thing. Hamsters can be a good thing. Use it to your advantage and things will be good.

Nathan
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The west cannot survive feminism. It is being colonized by east Asians especially in all of the status professions and STEM.

The Hispanics colonize the south and southwest.

A new, non anglo, “society” (value-system) will rise – patriarchy.

Tom
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@Nathan
> The Hispanics colonize the south and southwest.

This is one of the great, ongoing social experiments of our day.

Ignored by the media for more sensational clickbait like the muslim colonization of Europe, the rise of Latin culture in America may have far more profound effects.

The Latin Americans have a sexual culture (macho culture) that works in the real world of men and women. If that should hybridize with American initiative and risk-taking culture, we may see something that will surprize the world!

rugby11ljh
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For all your veteran friends
https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/5059
Maybe it’s words on paper and means nothing but where trying here in the great capital of the USA

Tilikum
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$1200 a month is cheap! I charge like $2K up front then $100 an hour. Avg. client bill, $3200. Meh.

As to the unsurprising soldier clusterfuck, I’ll keep standing on my desk and saying it: “Cops and soldiers are, to a one, as beta as beta can be”. It’s the rules they must follow and the expectation of ruthlessness and power that they DO NOT HAVE. It psychologically destroys them and their identity.

Nathan
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interesting isn’t it, America, the one garden of Eden on earth, because of Eve (feminism) is being colonized by foreign peoples.
and it will never be the same again

The Diplomat
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Uh…Nathan. Hate to have to point this out to a grown up, but America’s history is all about being colonized by foreign peoples. Unless you’re 100% Native American, that includes YOUR ancestors.

fatmanjudo
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Whenever I read Rollo I’m stuck with the image of being on a hill surveying an empty valley with the wind in my face totally alone.

Nathan
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Diplomat, you (likely purposefully) miss the meaning.
this is a “goodbye, America” sentiment.
America as associated with white anglo-saxon Protestant ethics and values.

don’t be a dumbass

thedeclineandfall
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Very insightful comment Tillikum. The psychological conditioning basically teaches them conflicting principles all at once. Soldiers don’t economically benefit for service; unlike prior ages where they reaped huge rewards for taking risks in warfare.

Glenn
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@ Nathan – And those values lead to the development of the most vibrant, free, safe and prosperous society in the history of civilization. But hey, let’s throw all that in the garbage in because most women can’t be bothered to study the classics and understand what it is we actually have in the west. It isn’t the men who’ve elected all these socialists. Look at what’s happening in Sweden – its standard of living is collapsing from willy-nilly immigration and multi-kulti madness. We have destroyed the very fabric of our society in 60 years. Nice work, Progressive-Marxists, now bring… Read more »

Glenn
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Re: The Diplomat – Your comment is like saying, “Well lots of people lived in this house before you” when I’m saying, “My family is falling coming apart”. In other words, nonsense.

Alec Leamas
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“In a way I pity the women who identify themselves as Red Pill women. Not because I think their efforts are misplaced, but because they become privy to Red Pill truths and now have a different awareness of that observer-expectancy effect. The process is changed with regard to how they deal with men, maybe their husbands, and now they can no longer play the Game without some peripheral awareness that they are playing a game.” Part of me wonders whether this is entirely accurate in all contexts. It seems to me that one half of the Blue Pill is the… Read more »

Tom
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I was waiting for a post like this, but it still leaves me with questions. Currently, I’m at a stage in my life where I’m planning for the future. Due to luck and diligence, I’ve achieved some success in my career as well as accumulating a good chunk of change. In the medium term, my hope is to marry a traditional Asian woman and build a family. My question is this: how am I to build a family with a woman while fully cognizant of her hypergamous nature? If all women share the same traits, can I travel anywhere across… Read more »

Badpainter
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Rollo – “There are complementary benefits, but never assume your investment with a woman will be an equitable tradeoff.”

You will never get out what you put in.

Not Born This Morning
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Every woman is expendable. Their candles burn out long before any man who has control of himself and takes care of himself. No woman is worth all this trouble. Understanding the truth written about here is worth the trouble.

Badpainter
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@ Rollo

Do what exactly?

Michael Davis
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Is there any value in teaching our daughters Red Pill truths? What can we do to help them navigate that part of their lives?

Alec Leamas
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@ Tom – My two cents are that you can only ever reduce and never eliminate the risk of a woman straying from you. You can derive clues from her prior behavior as to whether she’s developed restraint but in the end it could always happen. A catastrophic loss in status may assure that it does, and even if you’ve married a foreign woman if you’ll reside in the West you’ll still be subject to U.S. divorce law and all of its perverse incentives and outcomes. If she tires of fucking you and is attractive enough to get attention from… Read more »

The Diplomat
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@Glenn From where I’m standing, the Feminine Imperative in America springs right out of the good old Anglo-Saxon cultural milieu. It’s even a right-leaning, SUV driving, Christian soccer mommy disease at this point. I meet these entitled harpies every day when I go pick my sons up from grade school. We really can’t blame it on the straw man of invading foreign hordes and imaginary Marxists. Maybe there are other more appropriate forums where such subjective political topics could be better discussed. This oasis, TRM, is primarily devoted to the psychology of gender relations and sharing personal stories/advice related to… Read more »

Alec Leamas
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@The Diplomat First, the FI isn’t a cultural invention – it just is. It’s something probably hardwired in our female ancestors’ brains in prehistory. It’s a strong instinct, most likely an adaptation to the unstable nature of human societies where the man or men on top in one minute become maimed/dead/overthrown the next and fidelity to them would mean a loss of resources and status within the community and likely death for a woman and her children. If some prehistoric woman’s mate was gored by an aurochs while out hunting, or a bronze age woman’s village overrun by invaders, it… Read more »

Tom
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@Rollo I think I would still do it…after I emigrate to Saudi Arabia :).

Divided Line
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This is a fantastic post and, as always, it seems to drag out into the light all those murky half-realizations and intuitions I had during my relationships. But, as ever, with those things demystified and clarified, I’m left with the question as to why I should even bother attempting to have relationships with women if this is how things really are.

Tom
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@Alec Leamas I would never marry in the United States or any western country. Family courts are biased and the risks are heavily skewed towards the man.
Although it is a drastic measure, expatriation to a “patriarchal” society is one way to mitigate frivorce risk.

rugby11ljh
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Don’t women take risk by giving birth to beta men? Alpha fux… She bangs him the guy she tells the beta to not be or invest himself to be. But when she does bang a beta what if she only uses him for resources for the alphas seed? Didn’t women take some risk in having their own social convention of shame used in them? Or would no women ever shame another go banging the alphas brains out? In due course I only see women ever bring this up when they have already had children. In my blue pill days so… Read more »

TheRedBaron
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I appreciate Rollo’s honesty given this info could also jeopardise his blog readership numbers in the short term given a few of the commentators in prior posts I fear seem to come across as Purple Pill wannabe alphas who still pedestalise female approval via getting laid as a measure of their self worth to a large extent rather than using Game and enjoying sex with women as just another of life’s many experiences. The Herbivore and MGTOW phenomena will both continue to grow as Red Pill awareness increases, perhaps restoring some balance in the SMP regardless of whether most men… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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Middle class family suicide (red) son (blue) farther alpha vs beta son vs farther
Rebel Without a Cause – Stand Up For Me! http://fw.to/E49hkyJ
@theredbarron
Makes me think of black knighting
“I fear seem to come across as Purple Pill wannabe alphas who still pedestalise female approval via getting laid as a measure of their self worth to a large extent rather than using Game and enjoying sex with women as just another of life’s many experiences.”

Divided Line
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@ Stingray “For me personally, and I read other women say the same, the Game is better now. It’s more fun. The worry and doubt about who I should be and what I should be doing are gone. Open pride in my husband has lead to far more fun and excitement in our relationship.” This is a fascinating post. Surely, if you’ve read these comments sections, you’ve gotten a sense of what a terrible burden women’s inhuman expectations are for men and what an unfolding tragedy it is producing in the west over the last 40 years. Yet given all… Read more »

DeNihilist
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As is the usual, good piece. Wish every man here would understand that women have control cuz we offer it up like a cow to her calf.

Be the bull, fuck em when their willing, ignore the bitches the rest of the time.

M Simon
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I’m teaching the fm how to bond. What I continually tell her is, “It is nothing like what you were taught in girl’s school.’ Here is what works: When she wants to see you with another woman she will bond. Make her play dread game on herself. And how do I do that little trick? I continually remind her that she feels better when she is bonded. At peace. Easy? Hell no. It goes against all her internal instincts. None the less I am of the opinion that given time and intent on her part it can be done. And… Read more »

Fanny Farthing
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“Men will always be the risk takers in all aspects of life.”

As risk natural takers, we ought to be natural risk managers too.

I’m seeing a divorce coming down the pipeline, so for the time being I’m pushing my income into an offshore and taking out a lawsuit insurance. When I’m set up, I’ll pull the trigger ON MY TERMS.

Hobbes
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not to go too far off topic, but it’s come up so…. This constant lament by the WASP men here about foreigners is the ultimate beta tell. Get it through your heads, it is not foreigners, or blacks or anyone else who has lead western culture to this point- it is the the very nature of the WASP culture that always held the weakness within itself, the seeds of its own destruction- namely the pedestalization of its women. Even now, with female nature, hypergamy and the FI in full view, you continue to pedestalize your women by blaming their behavior,… Read more »

M Simon
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TheRedBaron
April 15th, 2015 at 12:37 am

Good analysis on where the culture is heading. And your points about male violence and female harems also excellent.

M Simon
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Hobbes
April 15th, 2015 at 4:08 am

Excellent analysis. The strength was the weakness. Very good.

M Simon
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Tom
April 14th, 2015 at 11:50 pm

Game is the other way to mitigate risk.

The Diplomat
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@Hobbes

Thank you for that. My intended message, but expressed in a much fuller, richer, and more eloquent manner. When I spoke to Glenn earlier about the “FI in America”, I was not ignoring the innate hypergamy in women the world over, but rather addressing (poorly, apparently) that which you so ably address about the utter lack of accountability in many RP-aware American men for their BP-drenched blaming of everyone but themselves for the wretched state of affairs we are forced to deal with.

Wish YOU were better, gentlemen.

Excalibur
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From The Onion:

I’m Sorry, But You’re Just Not The Man I Hoped You Would Become When We Got Married

http://www.theonion.com/articles/im-sorry-but-youre-just-not-the-man-i-hoped-you-wo,37061/

Just Getting It
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This lack of reciprocity took me by surprise too and left me wondering what the deal was. I had always done everything I could for the team – it was me and her against the world. It was a shock to find when I needed to draw some of the savings out of the piggy bank that I didn’t have a key. In retrospect it was stupid to assume she ever had my back. I would never assume my kids would help me, so why would I expect anything of my wife? Secondary proof, if it were needed, that women… Read more »

Dragonfly
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Ok Rollo… since you seem hell-bent on dissecting my every instruction to girls and women, compare me to SSM (yuck!), and seem to say I’m trying to hoodwink men into believing they can be weak and still be desired, I guess I must endeavor to comment, again. Men and children are totally different, your model of the flow of love and care from MEN-> WOMEN -> CHILDREN is correct at the most fundamental level and definition of “needs.” Women need men, it would be very difficult for society to comeback from, or even survive at all, if there was a… Read more »

Dragonfly
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… since we got married so young, I hands down am a culprit of the “Dream Killers” chapter in book two. And as a result, I’ve been there to see him build up his career. There was a time when he was rejected, and the rejection (I really think) was crushing… it even came the evening before his birthday, which to me, added to the whole horribleness of it. Since he told me about the rejection (and it was a huge built up hope for him that would have drastically changed our lives for a few months as he went… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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Dragonfly: Robots are not company, they are tools. Men are company.

Stingray
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Divided Line,

You misunderstood my post. My marriage is fun. More fun now than it ever was now that I understand my nature and can work to combat it’s worst aspects and nurture the best aspects.

I’m well aware of what men are and I’m sorry that my post was not more clear.

Bromeo
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@Rollo

fk protocol, need more posts like this one, shit is gold.

jeremy
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@Excalibur I enjoyed that post from the Onion. It’s funny – it is obviously satire, criticizing women for marrying men and not looking at who they actually are, but rather what women idealize in their minds. The message is “women, look at who the man IS, not what you imagine he should be.” Yet, to me, the hilarity of the article is the solipsism of the woman narrating. She drones on and on about what she wants, and how her husband isn’t it. But never does she take a moment to introspect about what HE may want, and whether SHE… Read more »

Stingray
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@ Michael Davis, There is absolutely value in teaching our daughters these truths. To let them know from day one that their complementary instincts are a good thing. That being supportive and submissive are not horrible and life threatening, or oppressive. But rather, the opposite. And that they will find their confidence and femininity in these things. Here are some suggestions for teaching them here and and here. The very best way to teach them is to show them by example now. Little girls adore helping their father. This is where they learn to do the same for their future… Read more »

447
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447
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Strangely enough, one conclusion is never drawn, going even beyond regular RP: If it is like that (which is proven here and on other sites time and time again) : Why not stop giving hundreds of fucks about “love”? So females don’t reciprocate what love should be, as soon as they are not forced to anymore (which they always were in healthy societies). The simple consequence is to not love them anymore, but go through all the motions to extract all the hypergamous rewards – and the biggest irony of all is this: As soon as you have this mindset…everything… Read more »

s0nicfreak
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“Everyone says two parents are better, but with Dad and Mom both working are there even two parents?” Well, the whole point of two parents imo is that one can work and the other can raise the kids and do things that make it possible to survive on one income (making food from scratch, couponing, repairing clothes rather than buying new ones, drive the working parent to work when they need the car to make it possible to buy one car at a time, etc. etc.). With both parents working, I would say there are two part-time parents, which only… Read more »

gregg
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“Sympathy / Empathy flow downward from men to women and then to children. Men who understand and accept this never expect empathy from women to begin with. For that man, either a woman meets his criteria for his investment or he drops her for a better prospect.” Yes, this is reality. Now, the question is – what to do with women given this reality. What should be the role of women in our lives, given this reality? WE – men are expected to provide, protect, tame our instincts and fuck the same woman, even die for her when necessary. Do… Read more »

New Yorker
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One can only love himself and the life that he tries to live. A woman can be loved for what she does to help facilitate that life. It all comes down to being one’s mental point of origin. Life is yours….only yours. It has many other actors in it who need to earn your affection for specific deeds if they want to stay in it. That is the only basis for normal human relationships, including those with women. As far as marriage, I think the only way a man does that is if he wants to have the family experience.… Read more »

ace
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“greginaurora

April 14th, 2015 at 5:10 pm

Women are innately unhappy. Any active attempts to make them happy will only exacerbate the problem. A woman cannot be happy on her own. But let her attach herself to a Man whom she loves, and she’ll experience life through him and feel HIS happiness.”

In other words; women live vicariously? Well, it would explain their love for talk and gossip.

Is This Thing On?
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Is This Thing On?
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Regarding two parents: I think a big part of having two parents is the kid can grow up not wondering where they came from. Even if one or both of the kids parents is a piece of crap, at least the child knows their origin and isn’t wasting tones of time worrying about that. In these days of frivorce and parental alienation, kids are wrongly told one of the parents doesn’t love them. Even in cases where both parents work, at least both of those bases are covered. The kids know where they came from and the know the truth… Read more »

thedeclineandfall
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Great comment. Every advanced technical society pretty much suffers from below replacement fertility, it crosses the racial and religious spectrum; Iran, China, Germany, Japan, Russia, etc.; it is due to cost benefit/liability of having many children. It wasn’t third-world immigrants who in their lust for cheap labor destroyed the jobs of breadwinner males. They didn’t unleash feminism, change no-fault divorce laws, or create a militant extortionist state. It is misplaced to rail against women or immigrants; not when White Knights in business suits are mostly the ones responsible.

Badpainter
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Sometimes the best part of a particular article reveals itself on the third reading: “In a Blue Pill paradigm men are conditioned to believe that Blue Pill goals are both attainable and worthwhile in the effort needed to achieve them.” The above explains both the success of the blue pill, and the difficulty of unplugging individually and collectively. The Red Pill offers nothing in comparison but the truth. And the truth is reality sucks. All of the benfits of having a woman in your life in the Blue Pill context are replaced as costs in the Red Pill reality. No… Read more »

DeNihilist
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Here’s a crazy thought. In the rest of nature, if food supplies become less abundant, the creatures that depend upon that food source, drop their replacement rate. As the food source grows, so too does the creatures birthrate. As far as I know, it is only humans who do the opposite. The population growth is centered among the poor and destitute, who live day to day and watch their children die before their eyes. Yet, when humans achieve first world conditions, the replacement rate drops below replacement values. The thirst for sex in men, to my mind, is above all… Read more »

DeNihilist
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and for pure pleasure, I share with all you the best comic series on the net –

https://xkcd.com/556/

BigAl
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BigAl
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BP, I agree with you there. I feel like no women are really up to snuff anymore. I just spin plates and have fun. I still feel trapped in my mind thinking I cant find a woman (or women) who could be an intellectual equal though. Guess I’ll just hang out with my bird dog and bang random chicks. Its weird coming to the reality that there is nothing more in life than yourself, but thats the RP for ya. Ive come to terms with that and am happy with reality. Im just focused on my career now and planning… Read more »

DeNihilist
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Here is a specific cartoon for this discussion –

https://xkcd.com/566/

Vulpine
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@fatmanjudo I used to have an image of the manosphere much like “Lounds” sitting in the chair watching the slideshow from Rollo “The Red Dragon” Tomassi (among others): “This is a woman’s nature; do you see? This is hypergamy; do you see? This is a woman after she marries you; do you see? This is the Feminine Imperative; do you see? You have been a beta; do you see?” And, I’m like, “NOOoooo! Not me! Please, god… not me!” (and my “pill” changes from blue, to purple, then red, after having the shit scared out of me by truth) “Why… Read more »

greginaurora
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@Vulpine: “The realities of women in my life (with regards to marriage/children/divorce) prompts the vision of me riding a flaming wheelchair down a parking ramp, screaming in pain.” The funny thing about that is, you can choose not to sit in the wheelchair, and you can choose not to set yourself on fire. That’s the catch for all of us. We’re only screaming in pain if we choose to live by their rules, to take part in their culture. With the Red Pill, we have the stomach-churning awareness of watching other men volunteer to sit in that wheelchair, douse themselves… Read more »

thedeclineandfall
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I do think abundance is the key dynamic. Children are assets in third world societies. You can put them to work and use them as a labor resource; so those people tend to have more. Children are liabilities in our society; they cost untold thousands of dollars so people have less. Our technical way of living has only lasted less than a century; average human life expectancy went from the 30’s to the 70’s; but our biology and drives are the same. Humans will either adapt to the changed conditions or revert to a less technical society. Loading...

Vulpine
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@greginaurora

The manosphere is like mom catching you reaching for the stove and saying “HOT!”

Some kids burn themselves anyway…

I learned a long time ago that the best way to avoid an accident is to not be around when it happens. Praise be to the manosphere for illustrating women “accidents” in order for me to avoid them.

StringsofCoins
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@447, Yes love is a mental illness it is not something we should be striving for. It only really exists under a BP mindset anyway. Relationships are contracts and now we are getting the new set of books to understand our contracts and properly “negotiate”. Or at the very least to set proper expectations of women. The expectations have just been moved so low that it’s hardly worth the effort. Women just have to get even sluttier to keep the game going cause, really, they flushed all their other value down the toilet. And they’re proud of it. Loading...

Seven Dials
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I can’t work out if you’re painting yourself into a corner, or the cracks in the facade are showing. But whichever, it’s getting worse. So what is your prescription for the foundation for a healthy love relationship? It’s to have Red Pill expectations of your partner’s behaviour. And what are those? “Hypergamy, women’s sexual and love opportunism and the potential of damning a man to a life of indentured servitude”. Plus the whole thing about how women don’t give a shit about men, or “Sympathy / Empathy flow downward from men to women and then to children. Men who understand… Read more »

Glenn
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@ Diplomat – Not doing politics here, suffice it to say your response to me mostly has nothing to do with what I said.

orsogrigio
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Enter the dojo that is TRM, and let sensei Rollo give you all the knowledge to develop the tools you will need to deal with Females and the Fi. This blog has allowed me to join the dots like no other, and given me insights into the reality of intersexual relationships that I have not seen anywhere else. The quality of the essays is first rate. “So morpheous you’re telling me not to read PUA blogs ?” “No nemo I’m telling you that if you read re-read and internalise the TRM scriptures, that you won’t have to”. Thank you sensei,… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@Seven Dials
That was one hell of a good read.
@Rollo tommasi
Damn it I woke up this morning and smiled because I wasn’t happy I just understood. Not seening in colors or bianary just dots from your work.

Fred Flange, Mansplainer
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So again, given the proposition: “You will never get out what you put in” The question remains: “Will you do it?” My own answer is, yes I did, and I got something out of it, something good for me, and I don’t worry about the balance sheet so much anymore. But I also have thought through the worst-case bug-out scenario. Say, an Eat Pray Love Epiphany. A mini-stroke, illness or other organic disorder causing a 180 personality change. Saying the wrong thing at the wrong time at the wrong dinner party. Because it always can. Whether you’ve done something wrong,… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@Excalibur – That Onion article though….yikes!!!

“Unless, maybe, you’re willing to let me project onto you a sense of determination to work things out.”

Future cat breeder!

Michael Davis
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@Stingray

Thanks!

Johnycomelately
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There’s a difference between accepting risk and being foolhardy. All I’m getting is that it’s shit, women have changed and we should adapt to their whims and simply ‘go along to get along’. The Red Pill in a nutshell: Women want alphas – become a top tier man. Women want promiscuous sex – plate them. Women are easily bored – become a clown. When they’re ready to settle – grit your teeth and accept the risks. Sex dries up – work on your frame. They lose interest – constantly perform, never ‘rest’. Lose your children, assets and the better part… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“Tired of the shit and don’t want to play . . .”

– find some ground, both physical and metaphorical, that looks like it’s worth standing on to you and make it your own.

Tom
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Tom
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@Johnnycomelately This is the topic I’ve been contemplating lately. Game, dread and frame may mitigate risk and reduce the probability of a divorce. However, when a woman has made the decision to divorce, the man is at the whims of a cruel and vindictive court system. The onus is on men to take the risk in our society but what is the downside and what is the upside? I have worked in dangerous workplaces, faced down prisoners and drug addicts and yet none of that frightens me as much as the prospect of going through a divorce. Whatever happens, I… Read more »

Tom
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@Johnnycomelately
Financial dread can be considered spousal abuse in some states.
http://nnedv.org/resources/ejresources/about-financial-abuse.html

rugby11ljh
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@Johnycomelately
That was a hell of a good post to think about. Thanks for reminding me an how ignorant I am.

447
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447
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@ Johncomelatly: “There’s a difference between accepting risk and being foolhardy. All I’m getting is that it’s shit, women have changed and we should adapt to their whims and simply ‘go along to get along’. The Red Pill in a nutshell: Women want alphas – become a top tier man. Women want promiscuous sex – plate them. Women are easily bored – become a clown. When they’re ready to settle – grit your teeth and accept the risks. Sex dries up – work on your frame. They lose interest – constantly perform, never ‘rest’. Lose your children, assets and the… Read more »

Thoroughbred
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JCL – “If I didn’t know any better I’d think the Red Pill is feminism for men, even though women are shit you still have to perform under the new agenda.” See… This is the subtle distinction where I think most of us get it drastically wrong. There is a huge chasm between performing for a woman and performing for yourself. Hell, I’m still guilty of the former at times still, but I at least recognize it now and am doing a better job of putting myself at the center of the frame rather than a woman. A woman’s love,… Read more »

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