Back in February I had an interesting exchange with commenter TuffLove. The conversation focused on his recent singleness due to his wife of 20-some years feeling the call of the Alpha and decided cheat on him, later divorce him and then take up with an even more Beta fellow not long after her ‘fling’ (his story). You can read the whole exchange here if you like, but what TuffLove describes is a textbook example of the Alpha re-interest impulse that defines the Development and Redevelopment/Reinsurance phases I outlined in the Preventative Medicine Series.
Not to rub salt in the wound, but you and your ex’s story is a cliché now. It’s the “making up for missing out” story. Woman marries early, cashes her chips in before she knows better, lives vicariously through her single girlfriends until such time that the “Alpha” she knew at 20 is the hapless Beta she’s saddled with at 39.
Divorce porn media convinces her to bail out and get with the Alpha she’s always missed for all that time. She did everything in reverse – Beta comfort and dependability through her party years, to be traded for Alpha excitement before it’s too late.
I was inspired to sift back through my comments for this conversation, because I was also made aware of a new example of both this phase’s dynamic and the divorce-porn industry that will inevitably find some very fertile soil to plant itself in.
This example comes to us courtesy of Robin Rinaldi, author of The Wild Oats Project. This book and the “experiment in cuckoldry” such as it was, centers on, you guessed it, a 40-something woman who abandons her marriage for one year to bang the random men she was prevented from fucking by being married to her dependable, unexciting Beta husband. Granted, the husband didn’t want children and this contention resulted in him getting a vasectomy – his only act of Alpha with her as far as I know. Her childlessness is of course her go-to victimization card she hopes will endear feminine sympathy for her taking matters into her own hands for a year.
The de rigueur rationalizations and appeals to womanly “self-discovery” are handed out like the M&Ms any Red Pill man will come to expect, but I’m drawing attention to this book because it has the potential to be the next step in the 50 Shades of Grey evolution of Open Hypergamy:
Get ready for “The Wild Oats Project.” And not just the book. Get ready for “The Wild Oats Project” phenomenon — the debates, the think pieces, the imitators and probably the movie. Get ready for orgasmic meditation and the Three Rules. Get ready for “My Clitoris Deals Solely in Truth” T-shirts.
On a social scale it seem like the next deductive next step – blend a justifiable Eat Pray Love narrative with the more visceral (yet unignorable) sexuality of 50 Shades and women will readily consume it. I expect there will be the same hamster spinnings of NAWALT and most women respect their marriage vows, but it still wont wash with the overwhelming ‘guilty pleasure’ popularity that 50 Shades exposed on a large scale.
Writers like Rinaldi and E.L. James have tapped into the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks anxiety rooted in women’s primal insecurity inherent in doubting their optimization of Hypergamy. If appealing to visceral sex sells products to men, appealing to the inherent ‘you-only-live-once’ insecurity of feminine Hypergamy sells to women – and women being the primary consumers in western society, sell it does.
Commenter jf12 related something Ballista posted on his blog recently:
Ballista asks, on his site, “why is divornography (divorce pornography) marketed exclusively to women? Why are there articles in women’s magazines and romance novels for women like Eat Pray Love that glamorize divorce, but nothing of the sort exists or is marketed to men? Why is there no male divorce porn, no stories of men divorcing their obese, aging harpy wives, liberating themselves from their marriage vows, and ending up living happily ever after banging large-breasted 21 year-old lingerie models?”
Can you imagine the uproar? Can you feel the Love yet?
Since the start of the sexual revolution there’s been a social undercurrent of excusable, justifiable comeuppance for any gender related imbalance women have been taught to believe that men are enjoying or benefitting from. Whatever male-specific indignation that would reflect negatively on men becomes a form of empowerment for women – particularly if that indignation facilitates men’s sexual strategy at the expense of women’s. Thus a woman taking a yearlong break from her marriage to bed as many men as she cares to indulge (fully expecting to come back to her dutiful Beta husband afterwards) is cast as an iconoclastic hero for casting off “patriarchal sexual repression.”
Furthermore, it’s only a small step to wipe the accountability of her actions off on the horrible man who wont cooperate by doing his duty to fulfill her sexual strategy. There is no more permanent a devotion to the male sexual strategy than to get a vasectomy and thus deny a woman the ultimate culmination of her own. If you ever want to experience just how close to livestock the Feminine Imperative considers men to be, just try getting a vasectomy before you’re married or without a wife’s explicit and written consent. Legally it’s easier to geld horses or neuter dogs.
It’s important to consider how the doubt over past hypergamous choices effects a mature woman. When a woman has passed through her Epiphany Phase and become a never-married woman into her late 30s the mindset becomes one of self-justification. This is similar to the Kate Bolick effect whereby a woman has very little choice but to live with her past intimate decisions and convert necessities into virtues. She embraces a ready-made empowerment narrative wherein she convinces herself that her choices were the bold, unconventional ones she needed in order to grow.
Next and most commonly is the woman who consolidated on a man’s commitment once she’d become less sexually competitive just prior to 30. I can’t be sure, but it’s likely that Rinaldi falls into this demo, the schedule more or less plays the same.
From Preventative Medicine IV:
Redevelopment / Reinsurance
The Redevelopment phase can either be a time of relational turmoil or one of a woman reconciling her hypergamous balance with the man she’s paired with.
The security side of this hypergamous balance has been established for her long term satisfaction and the Alpha reinterest begins to chafe at the ubiquitous certainty of that security. Bear in mind that the source of this certainty need not come from a provider male. There are a lot of eventualities to account for. It may come from a ‘never married’ woman’s capacity to provide it for herself, the financial support levied from a past husband(s) or father(s) of her children, government subsidies, family money, or any combination thereof.
In any event, while security may still be an important concern, the same security becomes stifling for her as she retrospectively contemplates the ‘excitement’ she used to enjoy with former, now contextually Alpha, lovers, or perhaps the “man her husband used to be”
The Soul-Mate Mistake
Vox had an astute observation about this phenomenon not too long ago:
Alpha Widowhood is a description of an observed behavior, not a cruel invention of the Game theoreticians meant to plague BETA husbands and give them sleepless nights:
“Steve has been with me for the past 50 years and Ron for 47. Neither is the man I am married to, nor have I seen or spoken to either since our love affairs ended in my 20s. All the same, there is no denying they have both messed with my marriage to Olly, the man who has been by my side for the past 40 years.
I found myself thinking about them both as I read recent research that suggested women who played the field before marriage are unhappier with their lot than those who entered matrimony virginal.
Angela Neustatter has often questioned what life would have been like had she married another manAngela Neustatter has often questioned what life would have been like had she married another man.”
I think it’s important to remember that an Alpha Widow doesn’t even necessarily need to have slept with a man she considered ‘Alpha’ from her past to feel the Alpha Widow effect:
Five minutes of alpha — even worse, five minutes of alpha rejection — can fuck with the heads of even the most desirable women. And continue fucking with them years later. In comparison — if the reports are to be believed — women who divorce beta schlubs after years of marriage pretty much forget them before the ink is dry on the papers.
Sometimes being an Alpha Widow means hypergamic ‘rumination’ over a better Alpha option a woman missed or was rejected by in her past in comparison to the guy she “settled on” for marriage. This is particularly significant if that guy was a woman’s Plan B husband. It’s not just the actual Alphas she banged back in the day, you’re competing with an imagined ideal and the more women are empowered and encouraged to feel secure in exploring their hypergamous options (i.e. correct their ‘soul mate’ mistake) the more you’ll read stories like this.
However, for all intents and purposes my instincts tell me Rinaldi falls into the “making up for missing out” demographic. On whole this demo of women can eventually become the worst self-inflicted Alpha Widows in their latter years. I let Rinaldi explain…
“I refuse to go to my grave with no children and only four lovers,” she declares. “If I can’t have one, I must have the other.”
If you’re wondering why that is the relevant trade-off, stop overthinking this. “The Wild Oats Project” is the year-long tale of how a self-described “good girl” in her early 40s moves out, posts a personal ad “seeking single men age 35-50 to help me explore my sexuality,” sleeps with roughly a dozen friends and strangers, and joins a sex commune, all from Monday to Friday, only to rejoin Scott on weekends so they can, you know, work on their marriage.
[…] One of her oldest friends calls her out. “How is sleeping with a lot of guys going to make you feel better about not having kids?” she asks. Rinaldi’s answer: “Sleeping with a lot of guys is going to make me feel better on my deathbed. I’m going to feel like I lived, like I didn’t spend my life in a box. If I had kids and grandkids around my deathbed, I wouldn’t need that. Kids are proof that you’ve lived.” It’s a bleak and disheartening rationale, as though women’s lives can achieve meaning only through motherhood or sex.
As I illustrated in Preventive Medicine, there’s a root insecurity inherent in women’s Hypergamy. From an immediate perspective this can manifest itself as a battery of women’s psychological and sociological filtering mechanisms for Hypergamous optimization with a man she’d just met, to the husband she’s been married to for 20 years. However, it’s vitally important for men, particularly married and LTR men, to understand that the confines of a committed relationship is never any insurance against Hypergamy in the long-term, and the rationalizations of that Hypergamy evolve as women mature.
Of course the first, best advice is the simplest “just never get married”, but even if you are a single man entering your 50s you will encounter women who’ve experienced (or never experienced) a crisis of Hypergamy and the incessant drive for Alpha optimization of it. If you are a younger man dealing with an older woman (why, I don’t know) you will likely encounter women like Rinaldi and women with similar mindsets as Robin Korth. It’s important to know what you are, or will be, dealing with.
[…] By Rollo Tomassi […]
I don’t understand why the husband would go along with this plan. This is a great opportunity to cut loose a growing liability with no hassles. Sure he’s still gonna lose half his crap, but that’s a given. He can make more money, while her looks are only going down and in 5 years at most she’ll be blowing German Sheppards because that’s the only male attention she’ll still be able to pull.
The real mind fuck for me here is that women will get behind the narrative that a married woman “missed out”, but poo-poo the narrative of missing out that an incel might talk about. I guess it comes back to the “You can Have It All” ™ narrative only applying to women. Clearly being born with a penis is means you don’t deserve it.
“Clearly being born with a penis is means you don’t deserve it.”
That’s correct. Eggs are scarce and precious and sperm are cheap, plentiful and disposable. Both men and women have that fact hardwired in their evolved firmware (instincts).
The last paragraph of this article is insightful and incredibly profound.
Jack Labear – “Eggs are scarce and precious and sperm are cheap, plentiful and disposable. Both men and women have that fact hardwired in their evolved firmware (instincts).” I think this is more a cultural artifact that places greater emphasis on survival of humanity generally than on survival of a particular civilization. During the siege of Aleisia the Gauls were starving. The story goes that the at one point to preserve the tribe and it’s ability to continue to fight it was proposed to eat the women and children so that the men might live. It was the men that… Read more »
The obvious and simple counter move to these overcomplex, hypergamy-driven schemes is mentioned: Just don’t get married.
Well done.
But it will not be enough – already around the world, states are starting to implement mechanisms to force men to provide for women they id not marry, like “common law” marriage in some parts of the Anglosphere.
More research (on the individual AND blog-level) is needed – the best solution would be a world map that details where and how you can avoid any judicial liabilities for fucking a women longer than ONS.
“Meanwhile, it turned out that, for around six months, Scott had been exclusively sleeping with one woman, a lot younger than me. That bothered me, especially as they hadn’t been using condoms.” At least the now publicly cuckolded dude was banging a younger (hopefully +1-2 smv points) hotter women without rubbers. I think mature women are oblivious to The Wall as we know it. She even says “Sexually, I was experiencing what happens to a lot of women in their late 30s and early 40s”. …….WTF? I put this down to; 1. An epidemic of thirsty betas willing to fuck… Read more »
It is not that easy: Eggs are relativly expensive on a local and tribal scale – as soon as we leave a stone-age tribal setting AND the idea that this exact small-scale unit is the (solisistic?) focus of theory(!!)…not so much. And there is a congruent value gap that is rarely talked about: 1) *Biologically*, eggs are precious on a local, small scale. 2) *Socially*, eggs (=females) are nearly worthless because they cannot conquer/destroy or build/innovate. 3)*Biologically*, sperms are worthless on a local, small scale. 4) *Socially*, sperms (=men) are highly valuable, because they can conquer/destroy or build/innovate. The (long-term,… Read more »
It looks like a hidden war between sexies that is disguised in so called: “love”. it is struggle in order to survive in this world. Bear in mind that you are always the most important, because if there sth wrong with you – this infuences your family or close relatives around you negatively. If you are fine, your family is fine. Invest in yourself, get education, build career, takce care of your body and mind, lift weights and do aerobics. enter into marriage only if you are the owner of main valuable personal and real property. I am not sorry… Read more »
societal level shit test, uggh
It’s another example of how women “having it all” or appearing to have it all in our society (and society playing along like everything is just fine). Men, on the other hand, are going through a mid life crisis if they decided to divorce and take up the younger 20 something year old. Men are seen as scum (when they do it) but the Eat, Pray, Love philosophy gives women a “pass” on it..so it’s fine. The media works its magic on women as well giving them the green light – from commercials to movies on how it’s fine for… Read more »
There’s already something like a “bachelor tax”. In some countries a single unmarried individual pay more taxes than married ones. For example here in Germany. Depending on what you earn, the difference is remarkable.
I bet there’s also something like that in the US.
Subsidies for women and children must come from somewhere.
End Game has begun, gentlemen.
Doesn’t surprise me at all anymore that a guy would go along with something like this. Take my in-laws, for instance. My father-in-law tends to be red pill, though he has no idea there’s such a term or what it means. Can build or fix anything, hunts, doesn’t usually take shit from anyone. He recently built some shelves for my mother-in-law. Building shelves sound pretty alpha, right? Not so fast, my friends. He built those shelves because he didn’t have the balls to tell my bitch MIL to get rid of all the dust collecting shit she keeps buying, and… Read more »
“The real mind fuck for me here is that women will get behind the narrative that a married woman “missed out”, but poo-poo the narrative of missing out that an incel might talk about.”
Precisely.. i was about to say myself… would these women have my back if i detonated my current relationship with my girlfriend because i had 12 years of ‘dryspell’ to make up for?
This whole post is pure gold Rollo. Awesome. “On a social scale it seem like the next deductive next step – blend a justifiable Eat Pray Love narrative with the more visceral (yet unignorable) sexuality of 50 Shades and women will readily consume it.” Wow. Such a movie with quality production could easily make over a billion dollars. It would be a phenomenon that exceeds “Titanic” (women got insane tingles about that movie). Titanic merely featured a women ditching her jerk fiancée for Leonardo DiCaprio; but this would be on a whole different level. They might as well call this… Read more »
Getting married is slaverly for man.Men are not designed to attach themselves to a single vagina. My opinion is females are a filter for best genetics from her perceivable males.Getting married is a huge commitment for men.
From Plan ‘B’ article: ““For our research to establish that 50 percent of women in relationships have a ‘Plan B’ is a worrying sign,” said the OnePoll.com spokesman.” Hahahaha!!!! No shit!!!! (Open) Hypergamy is readily walking the street in its full nakedness saying ‘I am! Leave me be!’…For fuck’s sake!! I used to think about this when I was still in the matrix….Men need to really internalize ‘Medium is the message’….this is something a lot of awakened guys don’t really get when they’re freshly out. Anyway, this shit is getting ridiculous…but that’s women for you. understand how they are, adapt,… Read more »
@Alex “I don’t understand why the husband would go along with this plan. This is a great opportunity to cut loose a growing liability with no hassles. Sure he’s still gonna lose half his crap, but that’s a given. He can make more money, while her looks are only going down and in 5 years at most she’ll be blowing German Sheppards because that’s the only male attention she’ll still be able to pull.” Sounds great in theory and this is how I felt once I got over the initial sting. Things started to brighten up.. I started to realize… Read more »
Wonder what wild oats this very post wall 39 year old was sowing with a 25 year old alpha dawg rapist hehehe http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2997875/Married-jail-staffer-sobs-s-sentenced-four-years-prison-repeatedly-sleeping-sex-offender.html?ito=social-facebook Love her excuse… he ‘seduced’ her. “the same security becomes stifling for her as she retrospectively contemplates the ‘excitement’ she used to enjoy with former, now contextually Alpha, lovers, or perhaps the “man her husband used to be” Doesn’t get more exciting than banging a convicted rapist in a closet 13 times now does it. Would love to see a picture of the sheriff’s deputy that she’s married to, just to complete the betabux vision i’ve got… Read more »
“For our research to establish that 50 percent of women in relationships have a ‘Plan B’ is a worrying sign,” said the OnePoll.com spokesman.”
No shit. it’s pretty much telling men that 1 out of every 2 chutes will not deploy on the jump if you fail to pull all the strings in the correct order.
And there are 50 cords to pull before it deploys.
Good luck men.. now JUMP!
Again:
“Despite the alarming statistics, men can rest assured their significant other won’t call the man on deck to step to the plate.”
And…
“These survey results suggest men should make sure they are attentive to their women’s needs, even when the relationship is on the rocks.”
Jeeeeezzzzuussss!
Reblogged this on 254MGTOW and commented:
SPOT. ON.
“Missing out” raises the question: “Missing out” on what? What does she think she missed out on? It’s whatever she believes at that time, and her response to it, that’s important here. In Robin Rinaldi’s case, it’s children. I suspect that’s true of a lot of women who consolidate on “beta bucks” around age 30 and have the attendant fertility problems. For other women it’s sex with very attractive men — something they missed out on because they married in their late teens or early 20s, and spent their most attractive years as wife to one man and mother to… Read more »
“Kids are proof that you’ve lived.”….
Yeahhhhhh…..
The moral of the Robin Rinaldi story is:
Always, ALWAYS assume a woman with a functioning reproductive tract will eventually want children. Always, ALWAYS presume a woman who is “undecided” about children will eventually want children at some undetermined future point. Always, ALWAYS presume a woman who is marrying around age 28-32 hears her bio-clock roaring in her ears like a freight train, even as she claims to be “undecided” about children.
@Stuttie – Well said!
I’m convinced that for a lot of women now, especially hardcore career women like Rinaldi, is that having kids is not so much about being a mother and having a family. It’s rather about earning the “motherhood” merit badge. It’s being able to point to her child and say “I did that. I’m a mom.” It’s not about the joys of having a family; it’s about checking a box off the bucket list of Life Achievements.
“Would love to see a picture of the sheriff’s deputy that she’s married to, just to complete the betabux vision i’ve got running through my mind right now.” What I find more amusing is the fact that in every one of these stories, there is some photo of the woman involved. The reason is twofold: So the men reading the story can say “total ugly dog” or “I’d bang her”. And so the women reading the story can (1) express outrage over why, why, a nice looking married woman like her would stoop so low; or (2) reassure themselves that… Read more »
RE:Ballista’s comment…
Actually it has been packaged into a movie “Hall Pass”, of course the tables get turned and its the women that explore their sexuality while the men are shlubs.
The hook for the male movie goers was perhaps the virtual fulfillment of their own thoughts, and Ballista’s comments.
But this is what TheMatrix does time and again, takes Male strategy and contorts it into a joke, putting shame on men for having their own ideas about how the world should work…..
It’s amazing to me that the topic describes perfectly how I was pursued by my former girl friend when she was happily married for 20+ years.She(in her 40’s) tracked me down and when I finally got divorced she found me.I rejected her and she never seemed to get over it.She lied to her husband,lied to her Mom(who she used as a excuse to have a reunion)used her friend as a cover and spent a week with me.By description she had a “Beta” husband and a bland life with 2 kids.I arrived at a later date and called saying I was… Read more »
@M3
“Precisely.. i was about to say myself… would these women have my back if i detonated my current relationship with my girlfriend because i had 12 years of ‘dryspell’ to make up for?”
The real fucked up part is this: if you were still incel, they’d judge you even more harshly. If you’re an incel man, there’s a reason you deserve your fate. Meanwhile every married woman that “missed out“ is an innocent “victim”.
Alex.I went through the same thing with a few twist but you can refuse to be around her and when your kids are 18 she can be broomed from your life.It’s a shame we never understood what that little doughnut could do to our life.You’ve got a lot of good years left,enjoy your freedom.
I dated a lot of women who swore they didn’t want children. Of the ones I’ve bumped into subsequently, they all have children, except for the ones desparately trying to have one via IVF or donor procedures.
Just as with the “I’m still hot after 40” narrative at the heart of all this eat pray fuck around nonsense, women’s central assertions about sex are often dishonest. You can only lie about what nature wants to do for so long. It always gets its way eventually. The harder we resist it, the more disastrous our comeuppance.
The even more fucked up part of Rinaldi’s story is that she expected her husband to go along with this completely. She expected to call all the sexual shots. She expected to be completely absent from her husband during the week, having sex with other men, and then home on the weekends to “work on their marriage”. And the worst part of it is that she fully expected, probably DEMANDED, that her husband get fully on board with it — that he agree that her decision to “explore her sexuality”. He is not only to acquiesce to it; but he’s… Read more »
You want the real irony here? Roosh can spend 9 years traveling the world, banging women in different countries with relative degrees of success and write more than half a dozen books about his experiences. The media here and abroad paint him as a misogynist monster, a sex tourist predator or a deeply bitter man who’s a potential or borderline rapist. Rinaldi takes a year off from her marriage, bangs at least 12 consecutive guys inside that year, expects her Beta husband to lie down for it with rationalizations of “working on their marriage”, then writes one book that becomes… Read more »
Over 35 year old female belonging to the North American species are the worse.
They are stretched out by thousands of cocks, infected with VD, tough and rough. I’m Indian, so I consider them from.another planet. May Krishna have mercy on you guys battling these deformation of femininity.
@Deti Did she really expect her husband to go along with it, though? I’m not so sure. How often do we see that women work passively, hoping for a certain outcome but not wanting to take responsibility for it. They hope to manipulate others (ie. men) into taking action, to give them the results they want without the responsibility. If this woman wanted children so badly, why didn’t she just divorce her husband years ago and try with someone else? She would have likely been able to find someone to inseminate her. Perhaps she didn’t want to actively be responsible… Read more »
Better yet, the black men in my last post are shamed and painted as sex tourist rapists – Rinaldi, a triumph of the feminine spirit for the same sentiment.
“Meanwhile, it turned out that, for around six months, Scott had been exclusively sleeping with one woman, a lot younger than me. That bothered me” “I’m grateful I experienced my marriage to Scott (who has since found a new partner)” Well, all’s well that ends well. Scott is relieved the burden of being with this grass is greener shrew and is most likely in a new relationship with a much younger woman from all signs pointing to. She is now post wall without children and she is “at peace with that, too.” Only thing i would enjoy more is getting… Read more »
Offhand.. any chance you’re book exists in ‘audiobook’ or mp3 format?
I’d love to purchase a copy that i could listen on my commute everyday. Stuff sinks in deeper when it sounds like someone is talking to me and makes me feel like im having a discussion with a real person.
@M3, the first book is in the final stages for Audible
“Ballista asks, on his site, “why is divornography (divorce pornography) marketed exclusively to women? Why are there articles in women’s magazines and romance novels for women like Eat Pray Love that glamorize divorce, but nothing of the sort exists or is marketed to men? Why is there no male divorce porn, no stories of men divorcing their obese, aging harpy wives, liberating themselves from their marriage vows, and ending up living happily ever after banging large-breasted 21 year-old lingerie models?” Well, in 2004, then-prime minister of Gyurcsány Ferenc of Hungary belived that Hungary is in a phase of rapid developement… Read more »
@Rollo
Slight tangent here, but have the MS or various talk shows ever asked you for an interview?
@Sun, not as yet, but I will be on Christian McQueen’s podcast again (on my birthday no less) next week.
^ Meant MSM there. Damned auto correct.
This post is the cream of all post. In early 90s I knew some women in late 40s and early 50s I guess they were the early “wild oats” I was in my mid 20s and kept being hearing the phrase : I want to find out who I was I use to tell them no, just say ; I want to fuck as many guys as I can. Most of them had left their husbands (kids have gone to universities) and these women were out for a lot of ONS.(I was one of their casualties). I believe women in… Read more »
I believe it could be that but I believe they’re just horny.Who the fuck knows?When you figure out a woman,let me know.
@M3
I believe LiveFearless was working on doing the reading for it, if I’m not mistaken.
the day will come when you see feminist women loving this song .
I have two ideas for movie scripts, and I can’t decide which one is better: 1. Stephen is a divorced and highly successful, forty-eight year old San Francisco stock broker raising his teenage son (in the absence of a deadbeat, selfish ex-wife), who is persuaded by his colorful New York buddy, Devlin, to take a well deserved, first-class vacation to St. Bart’s. As he soaks in the beauty of the island, he encounters three different lithe, drop-dead gorgeous, and spirited young islanders, Vivienne, Isele, and Gigi, who are all 25 years younger than him. Their lusty and charmingly competitive pursuits… Read more »
The time for this brawd to have kids was over 10 years ago, which would have been in her 20’s and early 30’s at a stretch. By her mid 30’s (possibly earlier) and definitely in her 40’s she dried up and puts a high risk on any child she does have in terms of various genetic/birth defects. Not having kids is just a rationalisation to go fuck around and get the last of any alpha fux she can get. She’s a post waller about to get sent to the scrap heap making a last ditch effort to get some self… Read more »
Actually I think the husband is a genius. Think about it this way. If he divorced the sloot at the start of the year it’s one half his assets AND probable alimony. BUT NOW he has documented infidelity. He has the proof that wifey has an independent chance at substantial income due documenting to her slootiness. All and all the Husband now has a far greater amount of leverage in negotiating a division of assets. So… in a way the sloot “having it all” yields the husband getting more assets post sloot year. And no alimony due to her new… Read more »
Really good post and cemented my decision to buy your second book. This movie sounds toxic. Women are going to believe that they can cheat on their husband and he’ll take her back anyway. My ex had her backup husband around. I never even knew the guy existed until the day I left her. He wanted sex to stick around so he got it. It’s definitely hard to compete with a fantasy. I read through several years of messages between them. Much of it is difficult or impossible to remember as it shocked my blue pill self to an extreme… Read more »
I bet you if Karl Max returns from the dead he would write a new book.
Das vomen exploit men.
Also I don’t think women actually believe in soul mates. I think that’s just the hamster spinning up. Do you think many women actually believe their hamster? That’s a scary thought.
Yet another pillar for the matriarchy. See, men, our status as mate selectors is officially obsolete. The power of a man to decide which woman to consort with was one rooted in social and material benefit for the woman.That power was also universal-every man had the ability to select a woman of some sort to the end of beginning a family. Now that society and the instruments thereof work for women -and by extension their core hypergamous programming honed quietly through millenia of natural selection, including through the modern era- the females now have the power of mate selection from… Read more »
@Tuff, Yeah the only way I can “father” my children is through incessant court action to get the government to parent them. My parenting is to pay the government to make decisions about my children. And I get to pay them to parent my children further in school. I wonder when the state will get state run daycares that I get to pay for? Oh and if I say the wrong thing around my kids and they repeat it I have been called to court and chastised for my thought crimes. Again, I had to pay for the courts to… Read more »
My youngest wanted to be a Gangster.I tried so much to pull him back from that life style.He is basically a sociopath.No remorse and I was in court everytime to let him know that I was with him and I apologized to all his victims.He spent most of his teen years locked up.Just before he was 18 the judge decided to put him in boot camp rather than allow him to go to adult jail.I was hit with a levy for $26,000.00 to pay for his final Ghetto lockup.7 months spent with Detroit hood thugs.He’s a woman beater and now… Read more »
I think the ‘Alpha High Score List’ concept, mentioned by a commenter (couldn’t find the link) in a previous post, significantly plays into this phenomena.
If you’re not at the top of her list, then her hypergamy is going to be constantly fueling her hamster with the “Why the fuck did I settle?!?” narrative and all the bad behavior that goes with it.
This significantly explains why high N-count becomes ‘problematical’ for (substantially) beta men.
@Rollo: “Better yet, the black men in my last post are shamed and painted as sex tourist rapists – Rinaldi, a triumph of the feminine spirit for the same sentiment.” Exactly. This is why as medium as message & demonstrate don’t explicate go hand in hand. Men really can’t waste any time giving a damn what women think or going even further to accommodate psychotic compromises that they expect, and universe forbid, modify our behaviour. Do not let the hamster take up residence in your head. Do what you want to do; own a classic car, ride bikes, fuck young… Read more »
You forgot Cambodia and Thailand.
@ChocDoc There’s already something like a “bachelor tax”. In some countries a single unmarried individual pay more taxes than married ones. Subsidies for women and children must come from somewhere. End Game has begun, gentlemen. ___ The End Game ends when single men decide to produce only enough for themselves to live on, rather than overproduce. I believe Dalrock has posted some charts on men’s participation in the workforce has gone down significantly over the past 50 years for various reasons, ( I don’t know if I can post a ‘competitor’s’ link here), but End Game scenarios to squeeze more… Read more »
@Rollo
Excellent, I’ll definitely listen.
I suppose the reason I asked is that I was curious if you’d do a mainstream interview if they asked. It seems like they’d spend the whole thing just trying to paint you as the bad guy, even if you don’t come across that way. Editing, taking answers out of context, keeping on their agenda to try and ignore yours, stuff like that.
Just kinda curious of your take on it or how you planned to handle it if it happens.
I’m ready to do it, but I have my doubts I’ll get the call. I’m not the kind of crazy they want to paint the manosphere as. They like the Paul Elam because he looks like Charles Manson and isn’t good in the moment. Roosh has a characteristic look and he can go off on rants, but even he doesn’t trip the crazy enough for them. If I went live, it would be more damaging to the narrative, because I’m measured and prepared. I’m not the frothing hate-crazy they need for the story they prepare ahead of time. I’ve worked… Read more »
@TuffLuv I’m sorry to hear about your situation because it’s crappy that your kid is being used against you as leverage, and it sounds like she’s young enough that you’ll have to deal with her mother for a long time, whereas if your daughter was in high school you could just tell her, “I love you baby, I’ll see you in 2 years when you turn 18 and you can do what you want.” and cut off ties with her mother. In this guy’s story though, he’d had a vasectomy and he had no kids before that vasectomy, with this… Read more »
@thedeti: I mean the whole thing is theatre of the absurd! Complete fucknuttery!
@thedeti “It’s not about the joys of having a family; it’s about checking a box off the bucket list of Life Achievements” Had an ex like this. There were a few glaring issues she and I had but this was a huge one to me. She wanted children, but she wanted to be clear that they were basically gonna go from womb to live in nanny because she was going to be too busy with her career. Keep in mind I was Blue Pill at the time, but gaining self-esteem and losing tolerance for female bullshit. I told her “You… Read more »
Very smart,Child compassionate.I wish I would have had that incite.I went ahead and had 3 kids with one fucked up woman.Now she’s landed a millionaire it all is clear.
“… So that custom’s given the heave to for “Find yourself in the arms of other men, and its totally OK.”Note-younger women already well and truly live this motto to the max. If youre a male in this Modern Matriarchy , youre an appliance or -for Alphas-a sexual game console to be traded in at the slightest whim.” I think many commenters including these bloggers here are projecting their wildest and craziest, fantastical teenage male notions of sex crazed women screwing every “alpha” guy they meet. Most women I see in my day-to-day life are not attractive or not that… Read more »
Yet 50 Shades of Grey took in $94.7M on its debut weekend, out sold all records for pre-sale tickets on Fandango 2 weeks in advance and the book series remains in the top best sellers for the decade.
It’s not about the having Tony, it’s about the wanting.
You discuss “vulnerability” in your posts and in your books. You seem to equate vulnerability with openness and honesty. Openness and honesty is not vulnerability. Openness and honesty are not detrimental to intimate relationships. In fact they are required for intimacy. Without them, there is no intimacy, but they do not guarantee intimacy. Disclosure of facts does not universally constitute submission or even imply subjugation unless we are universally attempting to hide the truth. Vulnerability is not defined simply by the disclosure of facts. Vulnerability is defined by Webster as “open to physical or emotional harm easily persuadable or liable… Read more »
@GeorgeMeeks, I realize it’s difficult for you to confront truths like this, but you’ve taken the Red Pill now, there’s no plugging back in (no matter what Mark Manson would like to sell you): True vulnerability is not a value-added selling point for a man when it comes to approaching and attracting women. As with all things, your vulnerability is best discovered by a woman through demonstration –never explaining those vulnerabilities to her with the intent of appearing more human as the feminine would define it. Women want a bulwark against their own emotionalism, not a co-equal male emoter whose… Read more »
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-march-16-2015-1.2994052/author-warns-of-dark-side-of-men-s-rights-movement-1.2996480
Rollo,
This is one of Canada’s top morning show regardless of the what they talked about it was the biggest publicity for the cause and too bad they didn’t ask Paul elm for the interview(or you).
@Rollo Good points. Your measured style and non-vindictive matter-of-fact tone have basically been why I’ve respected your opinion. You wouldn’t get advertising dollars for them at all, and that’s a great thing. Elam just comes across as butthurt and angry, no matter how valid his points. Not to mention yeah, looking Manson doesn’t help. Do a Google of his name and you can find articles on the first page painting him as advocating for “deadbeat dads”, or his own responses to media attacks where he pretty much spews Internet Tough Guy bluster. Not productive. It’s unfortunate you’ll probably not get… Read more »
@Sun, have you ever this:
http://www.returnofkings.com/21289/the-mainstream-media-writes-for-people-in-cubicles
I have no problem with the bachelor tax. Worth every penny.
@Alex
Yeah… kids make all the difference. Thankful my 2 boys are mostly grown.. especially after reading @wildcard21’s post.. jesus.
@Rollo
I have now. What’s really funny is it makes me think of my first time reading Paul Graham’s post about The Submarine.
http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
TL;DR: Journalists are lazy. PR people count on it.
Your point makes a lot of sense though. While the public hasn’t gotten any smarter, in the Internet age it’s like news articles and segments have been hooked up to a gigantic bullshit detector array. Laziness will be sniffed out and exposed.
@Sun, this might interest you too:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/04/02/its-their-game/
Has it ever been explained/demonstrated why once the rp has been swallowed one can not go back?
@jean,
http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/25/bitter-misogynists/
” Be careful of projecting what you think in your mind is reality (or based on a limited experience) onto the real world, it most likely is not accurate or not even remotely close to being true.” And then you go on to do exactly that which you warned against, and suggested that your experience is what actually happens in real life: ” I’m not a playboy (or alpha looking) and I’ve rejected the advances of plenty of women, many attractive, but for different reasons. Other guys, including alpha guys, that I know say the same thing. I really don’t… Read more »
Alcohol and the time of nite has a lot to do with it.
Rollo – You have not responded to my comments previous to the last and now you reference my email address rather than my blog name. I suspect you are personally unhappy with what I wrote. Is this why you are responding personally? Restlessness is a condition of living. We humans have only one alternative to remove frustration from our life pursuits while we remain in this world: death. Males cannot stop being pussy beggars while humanity continues, any more than all life can stop eating life. In this context it seems ego investments allow no alternative except death.There is not… Read more »
From before the time our balls drop we all (heterosexual healthy men) want pussy. This is blatant self evident and elementary awareness.
There is no rationality in confusing our libido with endless pontification, schema, and prophesizing….unless the rational is to sell you something.
This site and the blog are nothing more that what the world has been fooled with before many times…Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus….His Needs Her Needs….Love Sense…..
There are hundreds of writers of this crap out there selling you and perhaps themselves a line of bullshit.
Don’t buy it.
What?
@NBTM Openness and honesty is not vulnerability. Yes, it is. It gives people an in to your weaknesses, particular if expressed directly and verbally as such. The reason deception and lying are used so much in nature is that it confers an advantage. Humans lie, deceive, withhold the truth, or are selectively honest because full open honesty is rarely in their own best interests. Living in denial of that is setting your self up to be broadsided by the truth that complete openness and honesty is the fast track to getting steamrolled. Source: personal experience, over and over again. This… Read more »
“Missing out” on what? What does she think she missed out on? Look, the thing you have to understand about women is they are NEVER happy. Doesn’t matter what she has, or has experienced – she will ALWAYS come up with something she doesn’t have and wants. It is that simple. So don’t waste your time – your job is to enjoy your life. Men are simple creatures, we can be happy doing almost anything – fucking young women, or driving, or sky-diving – doesn’t matter we can take pleasure in it. Women aren’t like that – they WANT…. Even… Read more »
Great comment.So true.
This opens up the little phenomenon of cougars and the young males predilection for older birds, barren game. Easy lays, no oops pregnancies, both parties know what it is, no emotions, no attachment, no money transfer, low cost and both get what they want, sexual release for the younger men and attention for the older birds. Given that 1/5 of women are barren (1/4 for bachelor degreed women) I wouldn’t be surprised if this is more prevalent than people admit. I’ve seen quite a few omega friends go down this route, barred from the younger women this is the only… Read more »
interesting take.It just really makes sense,we all have needs.
Sun Wukong We all know openness and honesty shouldn’t be used without discernment. It is time you swallowed the Red Pill about Rollo or continue whipping yourself with your own dick as he encourages. Remember once you’ve swallowed the red pill,….there is no going back. And the game being played here?…. “Let’s you and them fight”….and you can pay me while I watch you fight…. Consider Rollo’s following two assertion’s. 1. “The Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies: For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.” 2. “….In the beginning of this section… Read more »
OH! I’m sooo debilitated by her hypergamy. I better get out my dominate alpha frame as a buffer so I can apply my beta idealistic “love” horney fantasies.
Such a limp wristed pile of shit.
Haters gunna hate…
I already answered your horse shit here, before you went full troll:
http://therationalmale.com/2015/03/09/the-rational-male-preventive-medicine/comment-page-2/#comment-92042
Maybe “Rollo” figured all this out because he has fucked 40 women….one black, ? Asian, ? Mexican (does anyone really care…and if so WHY?) or maybe its because he “really knows women” and he is “seeensitive”…..
@NBTM Nice wall of emotional butthurt there. Rollo can, has been, and will be wrong. Every human can. I accept that. However in your case what I’m seeing is somebody who is becoming emotional and angry trying to tell me they’re making the more rational argument. No, you’re making a butthurt, angry argument. You’re throwing around invective like it’s going out of style. You’re even making forced laughing part of your writing; always a sure sign of a try-hard pissed off that nobody’s buying their argument. It’s no longer about what’s wrong or right to you. It’s about fuck anyone… Read more »
Here you go asshole, read it in context this time: Men’s idealistic concept of love is a buffer against women’s opportunistic concept of love. When that idealism is expressed from a Beta mindset women’s opportunism dominates him and it’s debilitating. When it’s expressed from an Alpha mindset it supersedes her opportunism to the relationship’s benefit. If you want to use Blue Valentine as an example, the guy in the relationship abdicates all authority and ambition over to his wife’s opportunism. He idealistically believes “love is all that matters” and has no greater ambition than to please her and ‘just be… Read more »
Everything was fine with me until you came up with…. “Men’s idealistic concept of love is a buffer against women’s opportunistic concept of love. When that idealism is expressed from a Beta mindset women’s opportunism dominates him and it’s debilitating. When it’s expressed from an Alpha mindset it supersedes her opportunism to the relationship’s benefit.” This to me is conceding beta thinking and I don’t buy it even if it is conceded in an “alpha” frame. It contradicts everything you seemed to be communicating previously and what I have experienced. Almost everything you wrote made sense to me and I… Read more »
That’s because you believe idealism = Beta, but I can give you countless examples of male idealism put to constructive and destructive Alpha purpose. As I illustrated in the Blue Valentine example, men’s idealistic concept of love can be the worst debilitation in a man’s life when that idealistic nature is expressed from a supplicating Beta mentality. It will crush him when that idealism is all about a bill of goods he idealistically hopes a woman shares and will reciprocate with. From an Alpha perspective that idealism is a necessary buffer against that same feminine opportunistic concept of love that… Read more »
What is the definition or essence of men’s idealistic love?
If he is in an alpha frame, what is idealistic about it?
It seems to me that idealism about love is a BP beta trait.
RP is reality based, alpha is about getting results in the real world; where is the idealism there?
Take with a grain of salt all truisms including this one. Duplicity, paradox, absurdity are as close as we have come so far in all attempts to reduce any phenomenon to a first cause whether it be in physics, morality or pleasure. We cannot reform the whole without reforming all parts, thus leaving nothing to approve or denigrate. We all speak with forked tongues…..always. And words cannot relate the full depth of experience. Therefore we cannot comprehensively tell ourselves or anyone else what we have sensed. Even if we could think rationally or sense intuitively a single truth behind paradoxes,… Read more »
Look at TuffLove’s situation. Yes his idealistic concept of love has burned him, and yes he’s clinging to it still because he’s still coming to terms with women’s opportunistic concept. His predicament comes from his Beta conditioning having placed him into that subdominant hierarchy model and exploiting his idealism.
If he were in the conventional model, based in an Alpha mindset that idealistic concept becomes a net positive for him, in his frame, on his terms and with him as his mental point of origin.
I think if the only view and experience you have of idealistic love is from the perspective of being a Beta, you will assume it is a Beta trait or that it is always toxic. Without having been truly Alpha, there’s no way to understand how it could work out any other way.
I admit I have my doubts here, but I can see a few hazy ways it could work. I know I just won’t understand until I’m there myself, and I’m not there yet so I have to defer to the knowledge and experience of others.
I’m not sure where I fit in between A & B but I tried very hard to fit into the concept of marriage in the 70’s and bow to the man has equal responsibilities in a marriage(concept).Cleaning,cooking,laundry.Sold my muscle car and threw out my car magazine collection.I really tried to fit the mold.I just couldn’t get that far away from being a Alpha.I wanted to be faithful and be a parent.No matter what,the girls at work always looked good to me and when things weren’t going good in the marriage I got back in the game.I went back a forth… Read more »
Rollo, I’m going to assume that you’re talking to NBTM because your fem attempt at small dick shaming is inappropriate, unbecoming of you and totally off base. Myself, I’m on testosterone replacement, my T is at the high end of normal for young men, and my muscularity and BF% is in the 99th percentile for men my age. Unlike NBTM, I’m not attacking you, I’m trying to get clear on the concept. as Asshole said “Perhaps this exchange can be attributed to those facts about words rather than a real difference.” IOW, I suspect the lack of understanding has to… Read more »
Sun, you didn’t answer the question either.
Your response looks like beta shaming.
Some of your posts have been wise and insightful. You can do better than this. Answer the fucking question.
I’ve also wondered about the possible moment of Rollo getting on a news/talk show. Been thinking about asking him if he’s considered what he’d do for his “kill the messenger” or at least “discredit the messenger” moment. I pictured some host or panel of two or three trying to force focus the discussion on the lack of some degree in some field. Or attacking what he does for a living as some indication of an inability to have any insight. But I know for sure the The Graph would come up. But I’ve always been a little more concerned about… Read more »
“Look, I get it man, I understand your frustration. I know about your cancer and the Eligard injections 3 times a day and the low testosterone for you. I’m sure grasping this is difficult for you emotionally, I can’t fault you for it and I wont run you up the flagpole for it either.”
That was not me that is my uncle.
My problem is idealism…any idealism.
People believe what they want to believe…including me…and my uncle.
@Jack I answered the fucking question with an admission of Socratic Ignorance. I know what I don’t know. I don’t know what it’s like to truly be and experience the world as Alpha nor do most of the guys here, otherwise we wouldn’t be here. Beta shaming? I admit openly that I am a recovering Beta. Do not think that because I point something out as Beta that I am attempting to shame it. I am stating facts: you can’t know something you’ve not experienced. I do know one thing though. I’m certain that women do need men’s idealistic love.… Read more »
Rinaldi is just the garden variety narcissist. Par for the course among women of her generation, really. The screwing around, with men and women alike (she sowed her “bi” oats), is really just an expression of her fundamental immaturity. No reasonable person sees what she did as being a trade-off for not having kids. The totally blue pill drenched Washington Post even called her out on that. She basically threw a sexual tantrum in her mid-40s because she wasn’t having kids, even though she decided she wanted them very late. She acted out like a teenager having a tantrum, and… Read more »
The reason it is called ideal is because it does not exist. It will never exist.
@The Diplomat
You need to see Kiss The Sky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_the_Sky_(film)
It’s like your first plot but with two friends who fall for the same woman in a three-way. Very redpill truths about women.
Living in a college town with an above average population of young women, say 18 – 25, is not representative of America – outside of these college towns, you’re not going to see these concentrated hordes of younger, more attractive women milling about where I think these red pill “theorists” live and derive their theories on female behavior. Ah, tony. Always the denialist. Remember this: two of the leading red pill/Game bloggers in the manosphere — Roosh and Roissy/Heartiste — are guys in the DC area. Not a college town. DC. They are talking about girls in their 20s and… Read more »
“Rinaldi is just the garden variety narcissist. Par for the course among women of her generation, really.” Spot on evaluation that’s consistent with post wall / muttons dressed as lambs all competing for ‘you go girl’ online attention. From the article: “Rinaldi was 44 years old when she experimented with an open marriage. She placed the ad above on nerve.com looking for new lovers.” Yet she drops in the line “Pulling on his pants after our intimate encounter in my Las Vegas hotel room, the cute 23-year-old I’d just picked up” hmm, I really don’t think that would have happened.… Read more »
Asshole – “The reason it is called ideal is because it does not exist. It will never exist.” I guessing you’re the asshole that scoffed at the invention of the wheel. In 1900 the following did not exist: Airplanes Satelites Anti-biotics internet Punk Rock Abstract Expressionism The four minute mile None of those would exist today without the inspiration and aspiration motivated by idealism. Idealism is the realization that reality sucks coupled with the arrogance to believe it can be made better absent any evidence. Idealism is what drives men to create. Properly tempered it allows for ultimate maximization within… Read more »
To further embellish your statement,creativity is only fed by dreams.If you can’t imagine or enlarge on ideas you stagnate.Oh yea,you forgot expressways and air conditioned cars.
@Asshole
“The reason it is called ideal is because it does not exist. It will never exist.“
It’s called idealism because it’s an ideal to aspire to and possibly achieve. The term you’re thinking of is “impossible”, and I see no evidence of that in Rollo’s statement.
@badpainter
“Idealism is the realization that reality sucks coupled with the arrogance to believe it can be made better absent any evidence.”
And if there’s one thing alphas are known for, it’s arrogance and audacity. The two ingredients required for idealism.
I would like to communicate my current thoughts concerning the concept of frame to help illustrate the concept of idealism and how that concept influences us. First it is excellent that “frame” was introduced here. Before, I had not thought in terms of frame, and I honestly appreciate its introduction. I find it very helpful because it facilitates the ability to consider things more objectively; realistically. “Reality” can be a painful bitch, but the rewards of knowing and applying the knowledge sensibly far exceed obscuring reality with idealism. Webster’s defines idealism as: 1. belief in and pursuit of perfection as… Read more »