This week Black Poison Soul has decided that Hypergamy is less about the well established, biologically sound and well-studied aspects of feminine Hypergamy and all about women behaving badly. For the most part this essay is so scattered, angst-ridden and poorly reasoned it hardly bears responding to – the author is obviously unfamiliar with the well documented biological, neurological and hormonal influences of ovulatory shift – however he does provide an excellent illustration of how sociological dynamics have also evolved to compensate for women’s inherent mating strategy:
Let’s look at it from a different angle. Let’s say that these characteristics attributed to hypergamy are simply learned bad behavior – or a lack of learned good behavior. Let’s say that these characteristics are becoming more commonly-noted because society has gotten a lot easier on women simply because they’re women (aka we give them the pussy pass).
Take a dog. It develops bad habits. Do you leave it with those bad habits? Shit no! You train it. Positive and negative reinforcement, depending upon what’s appropriate. Eventually you end up with a well-trained and well-behaved dog.
In the old days they had ways of controlling (training) their women. Punishments. Social ostracism which was a force that actually meant something. They were married young before they started messing around, then it became the new husband’s job to train and deal with her appropriately. Even boot her out if she was far too obstroperous, the children (if any) going to him because he had the income and could afford to raise them.
Hypergamy is an evolved sexual strategy that’s worked for women for millennia. The behaviors associated with women’s sexual strategy (Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks) is a deductive manifestation of Hypergamy. On a societal level, the very fact that men would need to effect social control of Hypergamy validates the inherency of Hypergamy in women.
In the past polygamy, arranged marriages, courting rituals, petitioning a father for permission to marry his daughter and many other traditions that are now characterized as oppressive and antiquated were direct contingencies for men’s ambient awareness of women’s innate predilection for Hypergamy. It’s interesting that BPS should analogize women as untrained dogs without considering a dog is still going to do what a dog’s going to do. The operative condition being that a dog is going to be motivated by what’s been coded into its instinctual firmware as a result of what’s been evolutionarily beneficial to the survival of the canine species. The operant conditioning is training that dog to perform desired behaviors counter to that instinct.
But, I get it, there’s a real want for men frustrated by women’s Hypergamously motivated behavior to effect control by appealing to notions of personal responsibility. BPS makes the common error of (indirectly) appealing to women’s reason, as the rationally independent agents, who should logically want to be personally responsible for their bad behavior, or need some extrinsic correcting of them. A lifelong conditioning of egalitarian equalism has taught them that women should be as equitably deductive as men.
Men shouldn’t need to train women to act in both sexes’ best interests; as rational agents they should want to do this of their own accord.
It just doesn’t make sense that women would publically express a logical interest in, and desire for the comfort, dependability, provisioning and nurturing of a devoted Beta, yet overtly behave counter to that sentiment during the proliferative phase of her ovulatory cycle by directly inviting the sexual attentions of the most Alpha men her attractiveness can afford her.
What BPS has inadvertently illustrated here is the base conflict in the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies:
The Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.
For the better part of human history, by violence or by social convention, men controlled, and instinctually understood, women’s Hypergamous natures. By rape, religion or resources men effectively made women compromise their sexual strategy. In fact to be a man was to understand one’s social station as being above, and responsible for, directing that of women’s.
Prior to the advent of courtly love, bastardized chivalry and romanticism being promoted to the highest ideal of love, Hypergamy was very pragmatically controlled by men. Dalrock has published some very convincing material on how romantic love has dethroned this old-order practical model.
What nearly all modern Christians have done is place romantic love above marriage. Instead of seeing marriage as the moral context to pursue romantic love and sex, romantic love is now seen as the moral place to experience sex and marriage. This inversion is subtle enough that no one seems to have noticed, but if you look for it you will see it everywhere.
Lifetime marriage, with separate defined roles for husband and wife and true commitment is what makes sex and romantic love moral in the biblical view. In our new view, romantic love makes sex moral, and the purpose of marriage is to publicly declare that you are experiencing the highest form of romantic love. Thus people now commonly refer to a wedding as “making our love official”.
The gradations we now apply to romantic love are symptomatic of the problem. We take great care to distinguish between “pure love” or “true love” and mere “infatuation” or “puppy love”.
[…] Because it is love and not marriage which now confers morality upon sex, sex outside of marriage is now considered moral so long as you are in love. Thus we have the modern harlot’s defense/anthem “but we were in love!”
When you remove the moral connotations, what Dal describes here is an excellent parallel to the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies. On a meta-societal scale, contemporary men have abdicated any claim to directing the process of how or with whom their genetic legacy will be preserved. And while the Feminine Imperative will expend great efforts to convince men, socially and legalistically, that their involvement in that decision making process isn’t important, on a societal level the fact remains – men must be made to (sometimes forcibly) abandon their sexual strategy and their genetic interests in favor of feminine Hypergamy.
One reason a father would symbolically ‘give’ his daughter away to her husband as part of the marriage ritual was a tacit acknowledgment of his approval of this man’s quality and direction of his genetic potential. Similarly, a suitor asking a father’s permission to marry his daughter was part of the qualification. In both instances, there is a presumption of a male-directed process of directing a woman’s Hypergamy and prospectively directing his involvement with that new family. The presumption was one that men would directly influence feminine Hypergamy.
As human society evolved a precedence for romantic, feminine-controlled Hypergamy gradually supplanted this male-directed Hypergamy. I’ve written in the past of how courtly love’s bastardization of the original intent of chivalry was indirectly designed to be the feminism of the middle ages. By co-opting men’s sense of chivalric honor with feminine social importance, (if not primacy) the Feminine Imperative gradually established the social conventions that would lead to a feminine-primary direction of Hypergamy.
Romantic, feminine-defined love progressively delegitimized the old-order, male-directed definition of love. Marriage ceased to be the condition in which romantic love could be experienced and was supplanted by the prerequisite of a romantic love condition in order for a marriage to be legitimized. In so doing the meta-social dynamic of the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies shifted to feminine control.
At this point, I should note that the socially legitimized definition of love is not the same as each sex’s concept of love which is mirrored in either sex’s evolved sexual strategies. It’s important to remember the latent purpose of ensuring control over Hypergamy is the motive of forcing the romantic definition on a larger social order to the benefit of the feminine sexual strategy.
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed, the other gender must compromise or abandon its own. In the old-order, men controlled and directed Hypergamy to a large extent and women had to compromise their strategy. In a post-sexual revolution social order, where women have effected a socially mandated, unilateral control over the direction of Hypergamy, a majority of men are forced to abandon their sexual strategy, and even the elite minority must eventually compromise their own. Legally, socially and psychologically men are expected to relinquish any claim to directing their own sexual strategy while deferring to women’s Hypergamy. Today, women qualify men for their Hypergamy with a right swipe on a Tinder profile.
The frustration BPS is writing about stems from the Old Set of Books expectation that women are predisposed to the functional, equitable equivalents of men’s rational based decision-making. The evolutionary nature of Hypergamy makes any notion of equalitarianism a recipe for men’s frustration. Hypergamy isn’t just a label, it’s a useful term for the very real dynamic of women’s sexual strategy.
BPS isn’t the first guy in the manosphere to blame men for their complicity in women behaving badly in their hypergamic interests. He’s lamenting a lack of men’s control over Hypergamy by making appeals to how it was in the good ole days and how men need to put their foot down and demand women to shape up or else they’ll stop playing their game. It’s bad men who permit women to behave badly and raise the next generation of yet more boys and girls who’ll behave even worse.
This then leads to the very appealing concept of personal responsibility – men are responsible for women’s irresponsibility, and exploring the nature of Hypergamy seems to only amount to a “the devil biology made her do it” excusability for that irresponsibility.
The
DevilBiology Made Me Do ItA large part of the red pill perspective leans on evolutionary psychology. Of course evo-psych isn’t the only factor in red pill awareness, but for the vast majority of Game deniers (people unaware of the origins of their conditions) this poses a problem of convenience. When the revelations of evo-psych agree with our comfortable social models and ego-investments we’re all too happy to embrace the science. But when the science shows us the more uncomfortable truths about evolved human nature, the reaction is to either question the ‘science’ or blame the moral conviction, resolve and character of the person/people expressing that aspect of human nature.
[…]Hypergamy (an evolved species-survival schema) doesn’t care about personal conviction, freewill or definitions of moral behavior, it just is. So in the interests of perpetuating the best interests of one sex (and by extension the entire species) social and cultural norms fluidly evolve around it to accommodate what’s really an uncomfortable aspect of our humanity. Can Hypergamy be controlled? Can men’s sexual impulses be tempered? Of course, but not without the effort of freewill, conviction and social structures. I know of precious few men who’ve blamed their infidelity or sexual impulsivity solely upon their biological makeup. With the exception of the more natural Alphas, more often than not it was a carefully calculated (Game) and coordinated event.
All is not lost if you can get bestitis from a woman. Dominance can do that. But it is work when the social conventions do not support it. So what does that mean now? Alpha traits – in so far as they are genetic – will be better represented in the next generation.
BTW what is it with the brides maids Ds and Es and the bride barely a C. Is it supposed to be some kind of signal? The flatter the chest the more “virginal”?
BTW male infidelity is very useful in taming female hypergamy. But you have to be careful. Best if she can see your wanting other women helps her strengthen her bond to you. Assuming she wants to be bonded.
[…] Women Behaving Badly […]
So, Does anyone believe that females as a species are capable (willing?) of recognizing the destructive effects of hypergamy and as a group redirecting it themselves?
Or, is the only option male control?
Are we talking about something that *must* be reigned in by the opposite sex, or something that more modern “evolved” equalist women could realize is best compromised on?
That a woman would live with a dad but lust after a cad goes hand in hand with the belief in the blank slate. It’s pure post facto rationalization: “Sure he was a rough biker/musician who’s in and out of jail but I know it’s just because he had a bad childhood. If I just raise his babies with the right amount of love and tenderness they can be lawyers or engineers just like my new hubby!”
@Jeremy who cares if they can recognize it, they have no incentive to change. That’s why they “don’t recognize” it. They all KNOW hypergamy is real, it exists, they swim in it, and they work en masse to deny it, to distract to re-direct. “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn’t exist” added to “The devil / true love made me do it” = modern hypergamy Is male control an option? Well ISIS would suggest that yes it is for them on a societal level, we’ll see how they do with that. For… Read more »
@AgentP:
Actually it’s worse:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/08/07/open-hypergamy/
We all know what Rollo says here is true. There was a time when hypergamy was kept in check but the cat is out of the bag now. Game gives us a way to balance hypergamy out but to me it feels more like a patch than a true fix.
My question is where is this going to lead if left unchecked? It’s my view that it’s not going to lead to a better world. So what can we do to reestablish balance? How do we fix this mess.
@agent p …they have no incentive to change. That’s why they “don’t recognize” it. They all KNOW hypergamy is real, it exists, they swim in it, and they work en masse to deny it, to distract to re-direct. What I think you’re saying is that unchained hypergamy is not only the current state, but one of a number of metastable states wherein the male sexual strategy is nearly fully compromised. Hence, any perturbance to move out of the FI ideal state won’t come from women. My first question was perhaps my only worthwhile one… Does anyone actually believe that women… Read more »
@Jeremy: Women don’t see the destructiveness of hypergamy. They may end with a lot of cats and antidepressant in their old days, but they don’t care if they only get their alpha-fux and can follow their hearts. The hamster will do it’s job. And once you got away from the equalist perspective, you may even have to accept their different perspective and interests. In the end it’s a question of power who can succeed with his sexual strategy. The problem I see is, how following red pill advice, playing LTR-game etc, is just accepting the victory of the female strategy.… Read more »
@lh
Unless I fail to understand your perspective, you seem to be saying that Rollo has had to make *all* effort at controlling Mrs Tomassi’s hypergamy, and that ultimately it’s not worth it for most men with most women. Correct me there if I’m wrong.
Sisyphean
March 6th, 2015 at 9:20 am
You beat that by being the bad boy engineer. Not a common combination I grant you. But achievable. If you want it bad enough.
lh
March 6th, 2015 at 10:14 am
Of course women control. You want your genes represented in the next generation or not?
That said you can tame the hypergamy. With considerable effort and attention. And that is about the best you can do under current circumstances.
“But that is SO unfair.” And your point is?
Jeremy
March 6th, 2015 at 10:13 am
Does anyone actually believe that women are capable/willing of recognizing the destructive effects of hypergamy and redirecting it in a constructive manner on their own?
There are probably believers. It won’t do them any good.
Hi Rollo, earlier today, I was thinking about the whole male/female dichotomy. Up until about 150 years ago, the human race was susceptible to nature. That is, up until about 150 years ago, there was no separation between humanity and nature. It was only after we, as men, built a wall between ourselves and nature, that women began to push for ‘equality’. Up until then, women accepted masculinity as the default power. In other words, it wasn’t until men built a wall between humanity and nature, that women stepped up and decided that they were suddenly ‘equal’ to men. Because… Read more »
This is quite the conundrum. I’ve only recently begun reading this and other RP literature so I apologize for my naivete, I’m probably way off base but it seems to me that in this shifting societal paradigm the most successful mating strategy for men would be to try to find women that earn more than them and have more social status, subverting women’s innate hypergamous strategy. Given the direction of society towards a more egalitarian bent, stay at home men will become increasingly accepted and even desired. As women take on more and more “traditional man roles” that may be… Read more »
Hi Calvino, I respectfully suggest you read The Rational Male from top to bottom, then you will understand why your opinion isn’t realistic. Women, despite what they say, do not look eye to eye or down when looking for a suitable mate, whether that is for a ONS or LTR. If you (as a potential mate) are not considered above her, she will discard you for someone who is.
@ML
Whenever I meet a woman that insists she is my equal, I put this challenge to her: Let’s split the world into two and put all the females on one side and all the males on the other. The two sides are not able to communicate with each other.
Then let’s see which side lasts the longest.
The obvious problem is that both sides will lose. Of course maybe if women’s side of the world included some sperm banks, they would actually prevail.
Right, M Simon… so since no one actually believes that women will self-regulate. Since none of us actually thinks, “yeah, whatever behavior women have that is advantageous to them, they will willingly sacrifice it for the good of all men.”… then there is no “training” it. There is no “doggie school” for women. The only option I see left is that it must be controlled through the assertion of male sexual strategy. Try to imagine the converse situation. A culture ruled by polygyny, wherein men had a pathetically easy time getting access to sex and leaving women when they behaved… Read more »
Hi Calvino, I respectfully disagree with your assertion that both sides would lose. Let me explain. If you look at our society as it exists today, how much of the ‘heavy lifting’ is done by men. Easily the overwhleming majority.
I have a list of jobs done by men that keep our world going today, unfortunately I can’t post it right now, however if you want, I can do so in the next few days. But trust me, if men collectively stopped going to work tomorrow, society as we know it would fall apart within a matter of hours.
@Jeremy: Yes, that’s what I meant. @MSimon: “Of course women control. You want your genes represented in the next generation or not? ” I don’t care for that at all. I’ll be dead then anyway. Caring for your genes is just another male idealism. Male hamster at work to justify your evolutionary programming. Beyond this idealism humanity is about a gene-pool anyway and if I have children too or only my sisters doesn’t matter for that. If your ego needs lasting influence on humanity, better do some scientific advancement, write a book, fight a battle. My point is the shift… Read more »
Rollo:
I don’t know why you’re criticizing BPS. BPS didn’t address hypergamy’s origins. He took them as a given and described what happens with the removal of the social and other structures that normally contain and channel hypergamy.
You and BPS are talking about two different things. You’re both correct.
@deti, there’s a trend in the manosphere of evo-psych denialism, and it’s often promoted by very men who acknowledge and benefit from the application of those same “theories”.
The argument becomes one of freewill & personal responsibility vs. biological determinism, the extremes of both are in error.
And live from Ontario, Canada, the feminist capital of the world.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/kathleen-wynne-vows-to-end-violence-harassment-against-women-in-ontario-1.2984313
“Culture of misogyny” my ass! These are the most pampered women in the world.
At some point you have to “Just Get It” become Subtlety Dominant (Enlightened Self-Interest) and move on.
Women will not change. They lack self-awareness.
Learn this info. Pursue your self-interest. Let go of romantic notions of women. Women are the vehicle for you to have children. Imagining them equal partners is beyond silly.
If you feel lonely, because the romance of woman partnership is what you want and no realize you will NEVER have, join a sports team. Grow some balls.
Thats my believe, too.
A Man has to dominate and to control…in his and in her interests!
@ Calvina:
If you do what you have suggest, then you cut your balls off……cause you dont need them any longer
lh, competion is the foundation of where we are today. I suggest that feminism and birth control are merely side effects of the overall progression we have made. In todays society, essentially, we have the haves and have nots. Loosely speaking, the West is the haves and the rest of the world is the have nots. The Feminine Imperative is a Western notion and this is not an accident. What we are seeing now, with the spread of globalisation, that is the Westernisation of formerly third world nations, with the spread of feminine entitlements is a natural progression of what… Read more »
@Jeremy
Does anyone actually believe that women are capable/willing of recognizing the destructive effects of hypergamy and redirecting it in a constructive manner on their own?
No. Imagine your typical 17 year old girl. You’re expecting a collective group with that level of maturity and personal responsibility to even think about these things at the societal level? Then to take action on it without being capable of recognizing the problem to begin with?
The most responsible teenager in the house is still a teenager.
When we look at modern behavior, we are quick to refer to caveman evolution for contrast. That’s a big jump, and in matters such as these “behavior” issues, we need to better understand the modern variables, the modern influences on women, otherwise we get into a chicken-or-egg conundrum. In my quest for a red-pill hero, I stumbled onto a perfect historical “villain” to fit the bill: Donatien Alphonse François (2 June 1740 – 2 December 1814) You’ll recognize him as “The Marquis de Sade”. This dude lived in a time where he was jailed for his red-pill lifestyle: “50 shades… Read more »
I would agree hypergamy is hard wired into the female operating system. When society imposed limits on it (sex outside marriage was social suicide, divorce was also social suicide) this kept a cap on things. Women would then channel her hypergamy into choosing young the best mate she could land and then putting her energy into improving her spouse’s social standing to improve that of herself and her kids as her way to exercise the fi. Did she also do the milkman? Maybe some did. But back then the other women also kept tabs on each other, so no secrets… Read more »
It is hard-wired because the very sole reason female seeks for a partner of high status is to procreate and create / make sure to receive safe environment to raise her kids. It is no any kind of conspiracy, just pure nature. I always say – you can’t cheat the nature. And it’s true. 😉 We as men are also hard-wired. But not like females. Our hard-wiring urges us to ‘spread our seed to every single one of them’ 😉 People are not monogamists, but the whole human nature and development of our brain makes it more complicated than that.… Read more »
Someone mentioned above what would happen if the world was divided between men and women in halves. This is what would happen:
http://www.returnofkings.com/32053/this-accidental-experiment-shows-the-superiority-of-patriarchy
I’d wager that, despite being a closet MRA, redpillgirlnotes “goes with the flow” on GNO, rather than stand up as a healthy leader for the sake her race.
If I’m wrong, hey, I’d like to shake her hand…
but only to check the length of her index and middle fingernails.
@lordhighbrow: “competion is the foundation of where we are today” I agree with that. I even think female hypergamy may be the evolutionary force that lifted mankind so far above the other animals. Our evolutionary filter isn’t the ability to survive in the environment, but the ability to attract a female out of a competition to breed children. But I would argue what was once a feat has become a burden. The world changed faster than female instincts can adapt. Given how the world is today, it would probably be evolutionary better if women would dig intelligence. But out of… Read more »
I like the post but went and read Dalroc’s post and I think its just a big whine fest for betas. Post says that the only way hypergamy has successfully been controlled is through male dominance, and we need to return to a culture of male dominance. This is only 1/2 true. Even before feminism, AF/BB was always going on. Doesn’t matter what social implications were and throughout time. Its the biological order of things. Women are hypergamous. Saying you think you can impact this on a societal level is tilting at windmills. What this post says to me is… Read more »
lh, some interesting thoughts there. What I meant by “where there is a great man, there is a woman riding his coattails” was not individual men, but males as a whole. In relation to our progression as a species, for every ‘Alpha’ there are 1,000 Betas who are working behind the scenes to make the Alpha vision a reality. So while the Betas toil, the Alpha collects the spoils. This is not a bad thing. In order for progression to occur, we (as a species) need a leader to carry the weight of that progression on our shoulders. The Alpha… Read more »
But when the science shows us the more uncomfortable truths about evolved human nature In his seminal paper published in 1983, “The Demise of the Demarcation Problem”, Larry Laudan examined the definition of the word “science” and showed that it is hopelessly vague and useless to convey meaning. The only use that the word has, per Laudan, is rhetorical, as a rhetorical club to beat opponents over the head. Or to use to pound the pulpit. The term “evolution” is similarly vague and lacks authoritative agreement on the main plank of natural selection. [Cue Richard Lewontin.] So, let’s try reading… Read more »
@ vulpine, yes I do advise women to avoid divorce and I speak the opposite of “go girl” bc I know the dangers ahead if they don’t. It’s not eat pray love. My middle finger is longest, curious why does that matter?
@Mark Laszczuk
That’s exactly how I see it, once that wall was built it has been all downhill from there.
@ Rollo: Eh. It’s all much ado about nothing, IMHO. I know there are those who deny evo-psych. So what? Everyone knows that female hypergamy is a feature, not a bug. It only becomes a “bug” when not harnessed and channeled for her benefit. And whether hypergamy is evo-psych to the level of instinct or not (I think it probably is), that doesn’t excuse women’s bad behavior. Women are still fully personally responsible for their conduct, even if hardwiring and biology drive them. Women are full moral agents, whether they like it or not, whether they want to be or… Read more »
@redpillgirlnotes:
I’m very glad you aim to be a healthy model for your peers to emulate, and thank you, even.
Had you admitted otherwise, nothing personal, I would’ve questioned your motivations. A check of your fingernails could establish, not only what brings you to the manosphere, but also what motivates you to go to the Girls’ Night Out.
I keep my index and middle fingers’ nails cut short, and free of dirt. And, women tend to notice, regardless of whether they like men full-time, part-time, or not at all.
Shall I go on?
@ marriedalpha
My parents (now in their late 60s) have stories of people they knew that involved Hypergamy, AF/BB, Alpha Cads and Married Men losing Frame.
I think some Men want to imagine the past as a utopia so they can fight to bring that time-period back instead of actually trying to become better.
@Vulpine
Genius post
You aren’t going back far enough, look at tribal societies, its no-holds barred sexuality. And I’m not talking just theory here, but what I’ve read and what I’ve seen first hand. I slept with a full blooded Indian once, and she was a total pornstar, doing the dirtiest with eagerness. I talked to a guy who worked as a social worker for an indian tribe in the US and he said it was incredible the amount of rape and statutory rape there was. I believe in tribal society it was the sex that united them, and the way that women… Read more »
@thedeti
Women are full moral agents, whether they like it or not, whether they want to be or not, and whether anyone else thinks they are or not.
Don’t tell them that, you misogynist patriarchal oppressor.
Sophisticated.
The existence of a priori knowledge can be argued to trump all. So, innate behavior can and does over rule everything. Does it? Nature over nurture argument. If biology has a species hardwired for a particular conditioning. Can it be changed? Can it be diverted?
Street shit.
A woman that cares, shows it by becoming a Provisioner. If she gives you money. If she pays your stuff. If she brings you gifts. If she gives of herself instead of continuously asking. Watch the actions. Money talks.
@Amit
Heh…
Like, “Wyle E. Coyote (Super Genius)”
Thanks!
Anyway, off-topic:
I hope you (and the rest) followed that link, and read up on the Marquis de Sade.
@ vulpine I see. My nails are in painted, with gardener hands, I have a small farm/agrotourism biz. I have not been on a girls night out in ages, not much for nightlife, actually. Clubs and dancing have never been my thing. I might hit a brewery w friends or go hear a band.
In other news, here’s penis envy at work in Germany
http://www.dorkly.com/post/73151/germany-is-pissed-off-about-public-urination-and-theyve-got-the-perfect-solution
Note how the interviewees are 2 women and a gay dude, and the person in charge is a short-haired ugly shrew
@thedeti …And whether hypergamy is evo-psych to the level of instinct or not (I think it probably is), that doesn’t excuse women’s bad behavior. To me, this is the split you see. A lot of guys are not willing to consider the evo-psych stuff because it smells like just another hamster spin. It reeks of yet another justification for “just how things are” that is shovelled onto the guys to get them to accept having to optimize hypergamy for the ladies. It removes some of the responsibility for how bad things have gotten from the women who came before and… Read more »
How much hypergamy is too much is for all red pill men to decide for themselves, be they MGTOW, PUA or Jackson Browne “Fountain of Sorrow” Beta. But dealing with it – or not – is something you must do, because it is WHAT IS. Your liking it matters no more than whether you like gravity. My keyboard now is busted from auto-typing Lenny Bruce’s mantra: “There is only WHAT IS. What SHOULD BE is a dirty filthy lie.” And let’s not derail by going down the dark tunnel of “science is not science” and not use the word “evolution”… Read more »
It was mentioned earlier in this thread that people believe that Rollo simply did *all* the work handling the hypergamy of his wife. The implication by many (even on the previous thread) is that even manosphere solutions of gaming women to have successful LTRs just ends up being male slavery to the FI in some fashion. You know I’ve addressed this more than once in the past. http://therationalmale.com/2013/02/18/taming-the-beast/ Hypergamy Unbound One common misunderstanding I think most guys have about hypergamy is that it requires a constant attention. Most MGTOWs follow this logic to some degree, thinking that the effort necessary… Read more »
The behavior of women disgusts me as it does any other logical and intelligent individual, but: Is it not due to the weak betas that the society and women’s behavior is the way it is in the first place? Is it not due to them willing to sell anything and their own soul for a chance to stick one of their appendages into some mucus lubricated meat tube? is it not the betas and other weaklings and those even further lower on the totem pole that have sold their own gender for a chance of some intimacy?… We as a… Read more »
If monogamy is an artificial social construct that runs counter to nature then why are we complaining about hypergamy? Is it because of performance burdens? The fact so many of us are losers? I think we men have given up too much in pursuit of pussy and unwittingly unleashed hypergamy from all plausible forms of constraint. Namely we, by virtue of brainpower made giving live birth safe rather than a very lethal extreme sport. We’ve made infant mortality a historical curiosity. We made sex purely recreational. We’ve made adultery a legal or psychological matter instead of risky act that all… Read more »
Just Say No to Hypergamous Con Artists Picture of Independent, Strong Women: http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1425613789546.jpg Most everything told to men hurts men. Go to gynocentrism.com and read, read, read. Men have been sold a pack of lies for centuries. Why? Gynocentrism. Women are just as capable of betrayal, deceit and rape as any man. Most women can’t rape a fully grown man, so the female rapists instead go after underage, naive boys – kind of like some of those Catholic priests. Google ‘woman charged sex boy’ and read, read, read. Google ‘false rape’ to learn the incredible power women have been given… Read more »
Real Men
Blades of Glory – Final Skate
Maroon 5- Sugar:
I’m hurting, baby, I’m broken down
I need your loving, loving
I need it now
When I’m without you
I’m something weak
You got me begging, begging
I’m on my knees
My broken pieces
You pick them up
Don’t leave me hanging, hanging
Come give me some
When I’m without ya
I’m so insecure
You are the one thing, one thing
I’m living for
LOL…. cringe worthy.
I have realized in this post that Rollo indeed knows his audience and it isn’t patience he has, it’s a tuned delivery model. The manoshpere was built for Beta’s and I suppose that to reach that audience you need longer explanations that I need. That’s on me. I’m a dick and I don’t build my competition BUT in this case I realize that the Beta brainsmoke doesn’t trust it’s own judgement and NEEDS the interaction. Ergo, the risk of many using and gaining traction with what I am about to say is so low that I’m actually more interested in… Read more »
The saddest day in a man’s life is when he gets down on bended knee for the undeserving. The saddest day in a man’s life is when he says to himself, “All men marry up.” The saddest day in a man’s life is when he loses his self-confidence and devotes himself to a life of ridicule and usury, by a parasite. —————————————————————————- The best day in a man’s life is when he realizes that he’s better off without an entitled, sociopathic, narcissistic parasite ruling his days and ruining his future. The best day in a man’s life is when he… Read more »
@Calvino, “Given the direction of society towards a more egalitarian bent, stay at home men will become increasingly accepted and even desired. As women take on more and more “traditional man roles” that may be the natural progression.” 45 years of extraordinarily lopsided investments in gyno-mobility (that has had ZERO payoff) says you’re wrong. Women haven’t naturally progressed at all. It’s been a government mandated progress, not ‘natural’. The lack of innovation (a man’s role, yeah?) from women has been so total that it never even makes it to the table for discussion. Name a significant invention by females after… Read more »
@One Who Knows Better, Very inspiring stuff for a post 40 single freak like me to read. The ‘all men marry up’ quote reminded me of a moment in my life. It was a football weekend. Three married couples and me. They all had kids with names like Madison, Jaleb, Tanner etc. You know the type. I knew one couple well. The other two were okay to me but a bit dismissive. A few jabs here and there directed at me. A laughy “Hey, just joking” insinuation that I’m gay because I’m not married. The usual. I’ve come to expect… Read more »
Can you imagine a world in which women had ten times the testosterone levels of men? Really think about that for a while. It explains so, so many things. It especially explains the possible existence of Big Foot. Men and women exist on two opposite ends of the hormonal spectrum. Take away a large percentage of a man’s testosterone and he becomes a chick. He becomes emotional, clingy, parasitic, air headed and an emasculating banshee. Add a large percentage of a man’s testosterone to a women, and she becomes reasonable, logical, good with computers and math and beer worthy. Don’t… Read more »
@melmoth
Post 40 single freaks are the best. They’ve dropped their hubris, aren’t aghast at the thought of being wrong and hope to benefit others with whatever they have to give.
Everyone, one day, ends up a post 40 single freak. This is good.
@Amit
You from the tdot?
@OWKB, Thanks, man. Valuable pep talk. There is a loss of hubris. ‘The narrative was botched in a lot of ways, just admit it and live the day.’ That’s about how I try to self-talk these days. Way too much blue-pill for me to put a nice bowtie on my personal narrative. It won’t work but it’s okay. I’m actually much more comfortable with it all thank to the Manosphere in general. RT in particular. I just always felt like something was a bit off, but couldn’t justify it.I pretty much can by now. Enough about me. @lh “It’s men… Read more »
The more educated and wealthy women become, the longer they stay single, the less they marry and the fewer offspring they bear. The more educated and wealthy women become, the fewer men women deem acceptable as potential mates. Most nations will become either a Sweden or a Japan. Sweden has some of the lowest marriage rates, highest out of wedlock birth rates, lowest indigenous birth rates, highest taxes and highest mass immigration. Same with Japan – only they don’t like sex either. It’s Sweden or Japan, folks. With matriarchies, you end up with declining marriage and birth rates, higher out… Read more »
Great comment One Who Knows. Spot on matriarchal societies.
March 6th, 2015 at 6:22 pm @Rollo “…..a good relationship is effortless. Especially when you’ve internalized the Red Pill and Game just becomes part of your nature.” The greatest benefit I have experienced from internalizing game an getting red pill aware via the manosphere is the effortlessness factor. Even being an introverted INTJ, I no longer have complex social interactions suck energy out of me. People become inanimate objects who can be gamed. I always had a large degree of mastery. Under Blue pill lack of awareness it was a struggle. Under Red pill awareness and internalizing game, professional, interpersonal… Read more »
@melmoth The more men compete with each other, the less women compete with each other. Obesity. One word. It is never given enough significance as a factor in all of these discussions. Not even close. It never could be given enough analysis as THE major factor. I guess it gets too boring to discuss. You could even call it the “elephant in the room” so to speak! Ba-dum-tish. It is a major part of the problem. As has been noted throughout the community, overweight rates top 70% in a big swathe of the US. Then add in another 10-15% of… Read more »
“Given the direction of society towards a more egalitarian bent, stay at home men will become increasingly accepted and even desired. As women take on more and more “traditional man roles” that may be the natural progression.”
That sounds like the utter bullshit Sheryl Sandberg peddles. “Housework is Sexy” is the new outright lie she is peddling to men on the news network this week.
http://www.businessinsider.com/sheryl-sandberg-men-who-do-housework-have-more-sex-2015-3
The bottom line is housework makes a man about as sexy as his grey wrinkled grandmother. Don’t buy their egalitarian nonsense, it is simply another shit test..
@thedeclineandfall
“Great comment One Who Knows. Spot on matriarchal societies.”
I take no credit. Many a scholar has predicted this path. Nevertheless, thank you for your praise. I’m one of the least deserving. Many a scholar on this site could easily expound on my limited wisdom. Many a scholar already has. I’m grateful to be apart of this group.
“Why do my eyes hurt?” “You never used them!”
@Jeremy March 6th, 2015 at 10:51 am …..so since no one actually believes that women will self-regulate. Since none of us actually thinks, “yeah, whatever behavior women have that is advantageous to them, they will willingly sacrifice it for the good of all men.”… then there is no “training” it. There is no “doggie school” for women. The only option I see left is that it must be controlled through the assertion of male sexual strategy. Try to imagine the converse situation. A culture ruled by polygyny, wherein men had a pathetically easy time getting access to sex and leaving… Read more »
What if the actors in porno’s, that all men watch, were actually enforcing FI and blue pill thinking. That would really fuck us up because it becomes associated with getting turned on and getting a hard on. I was just watching one and the story line was white knighting and shit.
@ Black Poison in OP “Take a dog. It develops bad habits. Do you leave it with those bad habits? Shit no! You train it. Positive and negative reinforcement, depending upon what’s appropriate. Eventually you end up with a well-trained and well-behaved dog.” I like when men make analogies to training animals and Female Imperative. Because FI is so pervasively accepted that there is no consistent training to prevent females from “bad behavior”. There will always be men who excuse a woman’s open hypergamy and be a Beta Orbiter fluffing her ego while she preens for the attention of an… Read more »
I wonder if this has been discovered already and discussed. I saw a Dior ad at the beginning of a youtube clip that is an exact, point by point, narrative of AF/BB and nearly all of the elements discussed here at RM. A young bride at a multi-million dollar expansive outdoor wedding apologizes to her dad and bails at the altar, sprints out into a field, strips off her wedding dress for a black dress underneath (oooh), waits at a clifftop for a black helicopter, rappels her way in (bad ass chick. Maybe you can’t rappel upwards but it was… Read more »
Here’s more;
I should have looked for it directly and just linked instead of that barrage up above. It’s some kind of running mini-film/advertisement series of sorts starring Natalie Portman;
I have difficulties understanding the point of the article. I agree to all facts presented by Rollo. But it really is very simple – one could have stopped at the dog analogy? Ok, so women behave like X inherently (=hypergamy), have no rational insight, will twist society on a meta scale to anti-civilization etc. pp. for hypergamy fucks. We know that. Theoretically simple solution, just as with the dog (excellent comparison, btw., it really is like that with dogs): Women have to be controlled by men, because if that is not the case they will select according to genetic proxys… Read more »
“I like when men make analogies to training animals and Female Imperative. Because FI is so pervasively accepted that there is no consistent training to prevent females from “bad behavior”. There will always be men who excuse a woman’s open hypergamy and be a Beta Orbiter fluffing her ego while she preens for the attention of an Alpha. (perhaps it’s that way anyway)” Of course you can do only marginal things today – but you can. Just reverse anything feminists say (feminists = talking hypergamy) as much as possible without compromising your income or personal safety – basically treat non-fucked… Read more »
@Genius Lupus
haha Wyle E. Coyote…that takes me back. And yea I did check out that Marquis de Sade page. Definitely sparked my interest to find out more about him.
@Bromeo
I had to look up what ‘tdot’ meant. Im from the UK.
Women behaving badly in our society today is considered empowering, non-oppressive, etc.. It’s accepted and it’s considered the norm by society. Men behaving badly in our society, today is considered oppressive, in bad taste, misogynist, etc… I’ll bring up the above example in conversation or a debate (usually with a feminist or white knight) to see what their reaction would be since “equality” is on the table. They’ll usually talk in circles (reminds me of any politician)…and it gets back to “well, they’re not as bad as men at least”. I’ll usually laugh at that point and I’ll ask them… Read more »
[…] the “Women Behaving Badly” essay by Rollo Tomassi, author of The Rational […]
@ Fred Flange, Blue-Pill Salesman and Purveyor of Red Herrings And let’s not derail by going down the dark tunnel of “science is not science” and not use the word “evolution” because Jesus rode dinosaurs and Mohammed said salt water and fresh water can’t mix. Umm, no, you didn’t get my point. The word “science” has no uncontroversial meaning. (I didn’t say that science isn’t science. That statement has no meaning.) This is standard, uncontroversial (certainly, a few are having a go at demarcation again) Philosophy of Science. And Richard Lewontin is an atheist. Your “religion” dodge won’t fly. There’s… Read more »
Oho! I’m gettin shamed agin…
Dude when you speak of game you have much to impart and I am all ears. Go creationist and I bark back after spitting out these turquoise caplets. Lysenko was atheist too. His Soviet version of creationism through the will of the people set back Russian biology fifty years.
@asdgamer Lewontin was a Leftist who is a hero to them because of his arguments that attempt to minimize the hereditary differences between population groups, specifically regards to race. I’d be wary of relying on him. You’re going down the path of epistemology which is really where the game is won or lost, and you seem to coming out on the side of post modern skepticism, which I personally don’t agree with (its part of the problem we face – it powers the Left). However, no one in the Manosphere or the TRP community or the Reactionary Right is epistemologically… Read more »
@10×10 (its part of the problem we face – it powers the Left) Pfffft, if you allow the fact that you believe in any particular philosophy to place you on the Left or Right in our current political system, you lose. I hold philosophies that would be pejoratively referred to as “Leftist” by this crowd, yet here I am taking up TRP. It’s a philosophy considered “Hard Right” by the “Leftist” crowd. Now how can I do that? Because I don’t let political parties and ideologies decide my personal philosophy for me. That and if TRP is about seeing reality… Read more »
“I wouldn’t take strong positions and assert that hypergamy is hard science. We don’t know that yet.”
Keep in mind:
“The map is not the terrain.”
“The ideas (maps or models) in our heads are not reality. It’s the reason I do not care about evolutionary theory – it means nothing to me until science can turn one species into another. “The proof is in the eating of the pudding.””
See here:
http://uncabob.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-map-is-not-terrain.html
@Tony232 Dumb quote. From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation#Artificial_speciation “New species have been created by domesticated animal husbandry, but the initial dates and methods of the initiation of such species are not clear. For example, domestic sheep were created by hybridisation, and no longer produce viable offspring with Ovis orientalis, one species from which they are descended.” Science has proven speciation both natural and artificial repeatedly. Religious refusal to believe the results doesn’t make them any less true. It is true that the map is not the terrain (having read Simulacra & Simulation I’m intimately familiar with the concept), but that’s got absolutely nothing… Read more »
@Sun- As usual I find myself nodding my head in agreement reading your responses. The political animals trying to co-op red pill truths come across as pawns to me. Sometimes
I don’t know about you, but I find it hard to get all worked over hypergamy anymore. Its like seasonal storms, or aging- just a reality of life, you do what you can and get on with your life.
Not sure if thats a good sign or not
@SunWuKong:
Co-sign. (mistyped that as c-sign. ho! ha! he!)
As if I’d written it myself.
“How dare you talk to me like that?”
“I can talk to me anyway I like!” (Firesign Theater, “Nick Danger”)
@Titticome. “I’m a dick…”
Agreed
Someone earlier asked what to do about hypergamy. A la Roosh reducing rape by legalizing it in private rooms, I propose legalizing murder if you catch your spill use cheating. Of course there would be safeguards. You’d take your evidence to the judge and when approved you pick which partic
@Titticome. “I’m a dick…” Agreed An earlier commenter asked what to do about hypergamy. Al la Roosh solving rape by legalizing it on private property, I propose we solve the “problem” of hypergamy by legalizing murder. Of course there would be safeguards. Take your evidence to a judge, get it approved and then pick which participant in the affair you get to kill. Simple. Once you have the Kill Warrant you get to pick the time, method and place of your choosing. Neither the “Alpha cad” or the cheating whore would know if it was them or the other. What… Read more »
Movie, Hell. Imagine the weekly Tv series. The possibilities are endless.
@ 10 You’re going down the path of epistemology which is really where the game is won or lost, and you seem to coming out on the side of post modern skepticism, The postmodernists destroyed modernist arguments. Fact. In philosophy, the analytic argument-destroyers always have an easier time than the synthetic argument constructors and the analytics typically win philosophical debates. I don’t like Derrida much as regards his new synthesis, but I like Feyerabend’s analytic stuff very much. F. did excellent work. I agree that epistemology is key. I think that the epistemology of testimony is the most important field… Read more »
@Atticus… “I propose legalizing murder if you catch your spill use cheating. Of course there would be safeguards. You’d take your evidence to the judge and when approved you pick which partic” Not to give you any ideas… but it actually can be legal depending where you are, if you were to walk in on your spouse and find them cheating – in the act, and you shot the partner (not your spouse- unless you shot the spouse by mistake also) and it resulted in their death. It is ruled as a form of “self-defense” and an “act of passion.”… Read more »
@Ang Aamer “I mean we don’t want our sisters and daughters to be Alpha seeking pump and dump victims but aren’t we just enabling this by staying silent to our female friends? For the longest time I have been an onlooker at the wasteland of the 30 something divorcee who wanted to “find herself” by dumping a faithful beta for another chance at alpha sex. Frankly in the early days I just played along for the free sex that no doubt would come my way if I was alpha and “non-judging”. But now I am not so sure… perhaps there… Read more »
@Hobbes Sometimes I don’t know about you, but I find it hard to get all worked over hypergamy anymore. About a year before finding the Red Pill, I hopped on my motorcycle and traveled as I’ve mentioned on here previously. I went many places I’d never been, I camped for the first time in 20 years, I observed, I met people, I remembered how interesting I am from how they reacted, I cried a lot of tears sleeping alone in a tent in strange places with a lot of pain, and I watched as my entire worldview crumbled in front… Read more »
@Sun- Just crawled home.. a bit buzzed. Your post should be immortalized. Yes, I forget… when it’s working on you, in you, hypergamy is brutal- worse than a flood, or an act of nature, because it’s coming from the person you pinned so many hopes and dreams and love on. I remember what pain brought me here as well. And I remember my mind and heart fighting the RP like it was the devil himself coming to kill Santa. But there is hope, it’s just in yourself and not in another person in the form of some magical unicorn that… Read more »
Until I discovered game i never believed “hypergamy” could exist…now hypergamy is my friend. If you understand the “bf destroyer” techniques…”He’s such a nice guy, he puts you on a pedestal…I wouldn’t do that..” and suddenly you’re in a position to benefit not become a casualty of hypergamy.
I’m also looking at how I game girls….I get the “I have guys chasing me….” routine from girls all the time…
I shrug…that also often gets her hamster spinning—why doesn’t he care?
Hypergamy gotta eat!
@walawala, Yeah. Use it in your favor. That’s how it will run its course anyway, by guys adapting their game/priorities and more or less giving it the finger in whatever form. I imagine a 28 year old Japanese woman would be a whole lot easier to deal with than 10 years ago. I only use Japan because of the grasseater stuff. I don’t think Japanese women were ever problematic anyway but imagine now. Ten years of grass eaters likely has them scrambling to please. I use it in my favor too, though differently than you. I simply have allowed hypergamy,… Read more »
Can someday tell me a good site about dread games?
Thx
…somebody..
Given today’s partially globalized meme-plex, one has to consider that social/cultural memes can be transmitted and enforced by forces that have nothing to do with fitness. There is so much talk of interconnectedness in our world today that I think we can become numb to the massive implications of it all. Consider that one of the benefits a complex system such as human civilization used to feature is that it couldn’t propagate bad ideas so readily. But with today’s interconnected Western+ world, memes that don’t work locally can easily get transmitted globally. In the past, social/cultural ideas that didn’t work… Read more »