Acing the Test

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One of the first observations formal PUAs had when they were testing and refining their methods was that of the now ubiquitous shit tests women would present them with. It’s important to put this testing dynamic into context because, as most any guy who’s ever made an approach will tell you (not just PUAs) there comes a stage in that approach when a girl will set up a challenge for a guy. However, as any married man will tell you, that’s not where the shit tests end.

Over the holidays I was hanging out with my brother and watching my niece and nephew interact. My nephew is 16 and his sister is a very mature 12, but to see them interact, it’s one shit test after another. There’s the fluid teasing and taunting that comes from siblings that genuinely like each other (well, mostly), but as I watch these two interact I thought back to how my brother and I used to give each other shit, smack each other around and basically roughhouse like boys used to be able to do before a feminine-primary society decided they needed to be medically sedated for their ‘condition’.

I’ve explored this in Amused Mastery, but there’s a natural flow that’s learned between an older brother and a younger sister (or sometimes a capricious younger brother to an older sister) that translates to an intersexual relating with men and women later in adulthood. My brother is very conventionally masculine, a somewhat natural Alpha in his mindset, and his positive masculine frame carries over into his role as a father. This sets the environment in which his son and daughter are learning intertersexual interactions with one another. Both are very headstrong, but also respectful in a way that only a positively male dominant father can inspire.

I bring this up because I feel this learning illustrates both the problem most men later have with shit tests as well as the key to capitalizing on them.

No Passing

You’ll notice I didn’t say ‘pass’ the shit test. I think it’s a misnomer to view shit tests as a pass or fail proposition. Most men like that easy binary win-lose proposition, but the problem I have with that is that ‘passing’ a shit test implies finality. You will always be shit tested by a woman, so you never really pass that test, however you can and should turn those tests to your advantage.

Many a well meaning Red Pill woman (and a few Purple Pill ‘life coaches’) who don’t like offending the delicate sensibilities of today’s virtuous women like to call these tests ‘fitness’ tests. The renaming sprays a bit of perfume on an otherwise unflattering aspect of women’s Hypergamous psyches, but under that scent is the same truth,…

Women’s shit testing is a psychologically evolved, hard-wired survival mechanism. Women will shit test men as autonomously and subconsciously as a men will stare at a woman’s big boobs. They cannot help it, and often enough, just like men staring at a nice rack or a great ass, even when they’re made aware of doing it they’ll still do it. Men want to verify sexual availability to the same degree women want to verify a masculine dominance / confidence.

I think the early PUAs were correct in calling these test ‘shit tests’ because the nature of those tests they met in their field approaches were very much like the ‘shit’ they’d given and been given by their male peers throughout much of their lives. Part of the male experience is giving your friends ‘shit’, ribbing them, messing with them and otherwise talking ‘shit’ with them. If you’re in a fantasy football league you probably get that “smack talking” has been raised to an art form.

In this context it’s not so much a fitness test as it is a form of male-specific camaraderie – if it’s a test of anything it’s a test for the social intelligence that a guy gets that his friend is giving him ‘shit’ and can laugh about it and give as good as he got. This is part of men’s preferred overt form of communication which baffles women unfamiliar with it; if I’m playfully insulting you, if I’m messing with you, it means I consider you a friend and I expect that you’ll ‘just get it’ that you know this when I do.

Sadly this is often the first offense women take when they insert themselves into Male Spaces. They take the ‘shit talk’ personally, or at the very least have to make an effort (they believe they shouldn’t have to) to communicate in the open, often vulgar, but no less meaningful ways men do. Unless they were raised in the increasingly rare household of a strong masculine influence (fathers or brothers) it’s likely these women won’t “just get it” and bend their efforts to change that communication to something she’s more comfortable with, and something her feminine-primary expectations convince her is correct.

Getting the Test

Even if you had the benefit of having your bratty sister punch you in the arm after teasing her you may not realize this is a form of shit testing you. One of the most important aspects of dealing with a shit test is understanding the basic fundament of Just Getting It:

She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be.

Observing the process will change it. This is the root function of every shit test ever devised by a woman. If masculinity has to be explained to a man, he’s not the man for her.

A woman wants to know a guy Just Gets It, but she still needs a method to determine that he does – ergo she shit tests. For women, this method must be in as covert a form as possible to protect the integrity of not exposing her own sexual strategy to herself.

When openly analyzed this seems like madness to men’s striving for a rational solution to a problem, but her method comes from a subconscious want of not having to convince her hindbrain that he does in fact get it – and gets it so well that he neither acknowledges it overtly nor asks for her assistance in figuring her shit test out.

Observing and / or explicating a process will change that process, and a woman’s Hypergamous hindbrain knows this.

From Plate Theory VI:

Essentially a shit test is used by women to determine one, or a combination of these factors:

a.) Confidence – first and foremost
b.) Options – is this guy really into me because I’m ‘special’ or am I his only option?
c.) Security – is this guy capable of providing me with long term security?

I would also add that these requisites imply a testing for masculine dominance as well as his sexual market value. Women want a man that other women want to fuck, and other men want to be. The conflict inherent in women’s shit testing is that she must simultaneously determine a man has other sexual options than her while also attempting to limit those option and making herself his primary focus.

There’s always been some debate as to whether women are unaware of their subconscious shit testing or if those tests come from a fully aware and deliberate intent. I understand the rational want of men to hold women’s feet to the fire and accept a personal responsibility for their action – shit tests naturally seem like a huge waste of time, not to mention duplicitous and false to men who value straight-talk solutions – but I’m going to argue that these tests are both intentional and subconscious depending on the context in which she delivers a shit test.

However, whether intended or not, it’s more important for guys to get that a woman’s testing is rooted in her inherent Hypergamous uncertainty. And that uncertainty extends to both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of her Hypergamy. Women’s doubt of a man’s Hypergamous suitability is a constant, though subconscious effect for her.

Active Testing

When a woman actively, consciously, shit tests you, understand that it is always intentional. This type of shit test is the most common one PUAs encounter in the clubs or whatever their preferred venue may be. With the exception of maybe Day Game, women in these arenas are expecting men to sarge them, and therefore the propensity to deliver a prepared shit test is a conscious decision on her part. For the most part these tests amount to a fun game for her that serve the purpose of determining a guy’s SMV and his Hypergamy optimization potential.

An active test is entertainment to her in the same way it is for a bratty sister and her older brother. There’s usually a lot of witty (hopefully on your part) push-pull to this shit test exchange, but the latent purpose is her subconscious probing you for the possibility that you might ‘get it’ – that you might be able to play the game rather than having to explain it to her or having it explained to you.

As I’ve stated before, a woman who is into you wont confuse you, but a lot of men (particularly overly conditioned Betas) come to believe that any impropriety on his part might be taken as an offensive so they never boldly push back on these test as they should. They fall back on the “Yes M’Lady” white knight script they believe will set them apart from “other guys”, but the guys who ‘get it’ aren’t confused by shit tests. A big brother hits his bratty sister back when they’re play fighting; not so much as to harm her, but just enough to show her who’s stronger, who’s in control of his situation and isn’t afraid to push her back.

If a woman is not testing you in an environment where she could reasonably be expected to actively be doing so, she doesn’t have the interest in you to do so. A lot of men mistake a woman’s “Bitch Shield” as a cue of disinterest or disgust, when in fact these are often calculated shit tests. There are many ways to push past a Bitch Shield for a guy with the brass (and interest) to do so, but it’s a woman’s indifference, not her poised contempt, that cues disinterest.

Active tests are what single men are most likely to encounter in women, and it’s important for these men to understand that this type of test isn’t something you pass, but rather something you capitalize on. For a guy with even a basic grasp of Game these test should be considered nothing but softballs for him to hit out of the park.

Things to remember are Amused Mastery, Command Presence, Agree & Amplify and a basic Cocky & Funny ambience while employing them. I should also add that women deliberately putting themselves into social environments (like a club) who are delivering active shit test are likely at the ovulation point of their Estrus phase – adjust your Game (and birth control methods) accordingly.

If you recognize that you’re being actively shit tested always remember, play with her, and play with her. Shit tests of this nature are opportunities to build attraction as well as arousal, and women want you to get that they are opportunities.

Passive Testing

While active testing is done in awareness with intent by a woman (with only a passing element of her subconsciously doing so), a passive shit test is a reflexive, subconscious test rooted in a woman’s Hypergamous insecurities. In an active test, the latent purpose is one of playfully determining Hypergamous optimization of a new prospective mate. A passive test is rooted in the Hypergamous doubt that a woman’s choice to settle with that man was in fact the best optimization her SMV could afford her.

Passive testing always asks the question that her nagging, hindbrain Hypergamy can’t give a voice to, “Did I make the right choice? Is this guy really the Alpha I thought he was or could be?’

Passive testing is constantly exacerbated or defined by her previous sexual experiences (or lack thereof) or the fantasies of what could be if her circumstances were to change. For women, this is the mental space where the Alpha Widow dynamic is harbored. This is a where the subconscious testing of the man whom she consolidated monogamy with meets her unconscious comparing of him with her past, idealized experiences – or the experiences she believes could be possible if she could determine his suitability for her.

For the most part these tests are ones of measuring his performance and provisioning capacity against his Alpha tingles generating capacity. Passive tests are insidious in that they need a satisfaction of so many Hypergamous elements: Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks, the outperforming of past or fantasized sexual competitors, pushback masculine dominance, status, and many other prerequisites of long term Hypergamous optimization.

As you’ll probably guess the passive test is usually reserved for marriages and LTRs (live in arrangements being common). Any woman not familiar enough with you wont give you a passive test, however you might get one from your mother or a close female relative who needs some reassurance from you (or wants to put you in your place as a Beta). Passive tests seem to be the most hurtful, but it’s important to predict when they’ll come, what’s triggered them and the root insecurity behind them that women either aren’t consciously aware of or can’t openly reveal because, once again, it ruins the game and her determining if you ‘just get it’ without being told.

As with active tests demonstration, not explication, is the key to resolving and capitalizing on them. These are the types of tests that aggravate most men because they generally feel they’re locked into solving them. Thus, they make grandly overt affairs of bringing a woman’s ‘bull shit’ to light in an effort to quell her insecurities, but also to feel like they’re reasonably holding her personally accountable for her “stupid shit testing”.

And as with most similar efforts, appealing to a woman’s reason never ‘solves’ her problem. Hypergamy doesn’t reason, Hypergamy only feels. Demonstrating you get what she’s doing will help you capitalize on her insecurities far more than explicating that you know what she’s doing by shit testing you.

You’ll probably have guessed that passive tests are most commonly generated while a woman is in the luteal phase of her menstrual cycle, but it when that insecurity relates to her partner’s Alpha suitability there is some crossover into her proliferative phase. It’s important for married men to determine the nature of his wife’s insecurity with regard to her tests and when they’re most commonly delivered.

If she’s testing you at or around her ovulatory window, if she’s regularly insisting on a Girls Night Out around this time (yes, it’s a shit test), if she’s not sexually interested in you during her estrus, it’s likely she’s uncertain about your Alpha Fucks suitability to her. If her tests come during her luteal phase, if she’s nagging or provoking you about money, emotional availability or even how she wants to live closer to her parents, it’s likely her insecurity is based on her perception of your status, provisioning capacity or your Beta Bucks potential to make more of it.

While these types of shit tests based on Hypergamous insecurity may seem like a lost cause, understand that many of the same techniques used to capitalize on active tests still apply. Not all passive tests are delivered in the negative, and applications like Command Presence and Agree & Amplify demonstrate to a woman that you get it, that you see her tests for what they are, and you’re prepared for them without revealing the game you both know you’re playing.

Even well timed Amused Mastery (after you’ve established mastery of her) is enough to defuse a shit test with potentially negative implications. Once the precedence of your mastery is set it’s an easy fallback she’ll expect from you.

Granted, there are more direct ways of demonstrating your optimization to her – staying in better shape than she’s in is an obvious one, casually emphasizing passive dread (a.k.a. married social proof) is another – but the important part is recognizing what aspect of her Hypergamy is generating that insecurity.

In closing here I feel it’s incumbent upon me to address the most obvious response most guys will have to all of this: “Fuck that, I’m not dealing with her shit, just don’t get married, just don’t put up with it, just go your own way, call her on her bullshit” to which I’ll say, “yeah, you’re right, it makes more sense just to disconnect entirely”.

It would be great if women could be relied upon to be rational, reasonable agents as most would like men to believe they are. I mean, they should be, right? You should just simply be able to say to a girl or your wife “Hey I know all the games your playing and why you’re playing them, so lets just drop all of the pretentiousness and get down to fucking and living, OK?” But all this amounts to is negotiating for her genuine desire. Real desire on a woman’s part never comes from rational, reasonable explanations of why she should desire you, it comes from your demonstrations and your example.

Even the men who rule their women with an iron fist will still deal with women’s tests directly or indirectly without even realizing they’re doing so.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Dr. Jeremy
6 years ago

@ Glenn

Thanks and I do take it to heart. I argue passionately, but I’m not on here to “be right” and fill some narcissistic need. I do believe that you and the other guys on here are bringing up important and valuable perspectives. I personally appreciate it and learn a lot from you all.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

Alison Pischedda, Adam K Chippindale, 2006. Intralocus sexual conflict diminishes the benefits of sexual selection. PLoS Biology, 4(11):e356. DOI: 10.1371/journal.pbio.0040356
http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.0040356

Free sexual reproduction necessarily de-selects for intralocus sexual conflict, as opposed to interlocus sexual conflict, because intralocus conflict necessarily negatively impacts the fitness of any offspring. Thus a drive to intralocus conflict is a resistance to reproduction, and therefore will be the preferred female strategy.

It almost writes itself.

zdr01dz
6 years ago

@ Rollo
I think your age/attractiveness chart shows that male attraction is “right answer/wrong answer”.

It doesn’t matter if a man is a janitor or a CEO. Every man knows what hot is and he wants it. Personal status isn’t part of the equation.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

Intralocus sexual nonconflict will, in equilibrium anyway, be solely constrained by external selection. For example, we would all benefit sexually by being bigger, except for the consumption of external resources.

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago

@ thedeti – Holy shit did that Reformed Incel article set my hair on fire. What a story, and I feel like I’m watching Softek write his own version of it. Yet another aspect of the power imbalance I mentioned to Dr. J. – the level of suffering sexless men endure. At one point he talks about not “feeling human” because of the lack of human touch. It’s so poignant and real and i can relate, due to my experience over the last few years. I dare any woman to read that and not have a moment of “oh shit”.… Read more »

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

“males had an inherent advantage in interlocus sexual conflict”

G.S. van Doorn (2009): Intralocus sexual conflict, in: The Year in Evolutionary Biology, Ann. NY Acad. Sci. 1168, 52–71.
http://www.rug.nl/research/theoretical-biology/_pdf/doanyas09.pdf

Even if girls insist on fighting, males win when males can fight how males want to fight. Males only lose when forced to fight like girls want to fight.

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago

@ Dr. J – Wow, you demonstrated something right there that I’ve only ever seen men do. We all were having a back and forth, critiquing you based on sound reason but also passionately and not gently. Instead of turning it into an ego thing, you actually engaged thoughtfully. Who knows who’s right – you make some incredibly thought provoking observations and clearly are an expert in your own right. The social aspect is valuable, but I also think there is something meta about the biology – but you decided to actually listen and not just fight blindly for your… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@jf12 “Dragging her back to her dorm with her fighting against me simply didn’t feel right.” That story… my story of losing my virginity my first year of college isn’t much better. Basically a chick threatening to commit suicide if I didn’t fuck her. I was scared shitless, it was a horrible experience, and the psychotic bitch was the worst relationship I ever had. If anything it taught me one thing: somebody else’ decision to kill themselves or do something stupid to themselves is not my responsibility. In situations like that where you feel pressured to do something you don’t… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Glenn

One does not need a lab coat and a fancy PhD from a prestigious university to be a scientist. One need only apply the Scientific Method to problems in their life:

Hypothesize. Test. Observe. Refine Hypothesis. Repeat.

In my mind, being a scientist is strictly defined by applying that process to problems for deeper understanding. In other words, it’s not about your credentials, it’s about your methods.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Rollo

I like when Dr. J comments here. He hammers on the concepts we discuss from a professional perspective. It’s much needed to avoid letting the community turn in to a worthless echo chamber. I’ve also never seen you or anyone else challenging him as disrespectful. I would think it would be more disrespectful to not challenge him; it would imply he’s not even worth enough respect to respond to him honestly.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

@Rollo, re: “When either sex crosses over into the preferred combat of the other sex it belies their contempt for their own gender.”

And yet psychological Game, conversation Game, works well at overcoming resistance. Very well.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

When it comes to sex, females want to make it harder than it needs to be …

thedeti
thedeti
6 years ago

M3 has more or less left the building. He lurks here and there; I last saw him here a few months ago.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago
thedeti
thedeti
6 years ago

Glenn:

Yeah, “Confessions of a Reformed Incel” is M3’s magnum opus; his most important contribution to the manosphere. It is required reading, really.

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@M Simon
January 13th, 2015 at 8:21 pm

I have to do some reading on NLP brother…any recommendations

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

Still think “Demonstrate don’t explicate” holds true…IMO I feel goes towards maintaining frame, securely.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@kobayashii1681

Still think “Demonstrate don’t explicate” holds true…IMO I feel goes towards maintaining frame, securely.

Pretend that when you suddenly make her wet and she can’t figure out how you did it that you’re a magician. Telling her how you did it ruins the trick. That’s fine for other magicians, but I want her to always be in the audience. She just wants to be entertained and mystified, and I just want to keep her that way. Fuck telling her how the trick works.

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@ zdr01dz: “Since a guy can’t have 2 wives….”
In the west, and westernised societies, openly anyway. Here in Africa, (Not forgetting Islam..though some believe Islam is one of the most gynocentric religions) we can maintain more than one wife, legally and culturally.

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@Sun Wukong: “Fuck telling her how the trick works.”
My sentiments exactly…

zdr01dz
6 years ago

“49 year old Brooke Shields shows off her sizzling hot body in green bikini” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x6QGktp4xk Brooke is a Hollywood Star and she might be a very nice person. However I can say with 100% certainty that I’d left swipe her on Tinder. That gives me an odd feeling because I’m a nobody and nothing special to look at. But to me and probably a lot of other guys she is no longer worth driving across town to meet. This could by why attractive women and unattractive women joined forces to gang up on men. The attractive women knew that sooner… Read more »

Dr. Jeremy
6 years ago

Thanks all. The respect is mutual.

And..it is not a mangina Glenn!! I just got ripped a new one while escaping with secrets from deep within the matrix. I’m hoping the gaping thing will heal up. Then again, you guys keep telling me that being a big asshole is sexy to the ladies. So, maybe I’ll just keep it that way…lol

zdr01dz
6 years ago

I LOVED the Dr. Jeremy / Rollo back and forth.

It made me think.

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

By the way guys, there’s this new series called ‘Togetherness’, check the first episode, through red pill lenses….You can practically predict what’s coming next.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@zdr01dz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxIiJEy0yWc

The Brooke Shields moment from the South Park movie pretty much sums up my reaction to any time she’s opened her mouth for about 20 years now. How do you say “Shut up, you’re no longer relevant” in feminist?

@Dr. J

Then again, you guys keep telling me that being a big asshole is sexy to the ladies. So, maybe I’ll just keep it that way…lol

I don’t quite think that’s how we meant it, but if that’s how you roll…

thedeti
thedeti
6 years ago

Softek, Glenn: I hear you, brothers. It’s a shame you have nowhere else to go to express these sentiments. I’m starting to think that there need to be certain “male only” and “restricted viewing” blogs for this. I don’t think it’s good that men write this stuff down to be read in public and dissected on hostile venues where doxxing and outing can take place. If this were a normal world, a boy would unload this on Dad. Or you’d watch older boys and then take cues from them. But in today’s world, Dad’s an even bigger pussy than he… Read more »

zdr01dz
6 years ago

@ Sun Wukong
haha, comedy gold!

agent p
agent p
6 years ago

@Glenn Glad I could be of some help. You my friend sound like you need some Sanctuary for yourself. A nice quiet corner where you can go and meditate and let go of shit. Personally I have two such spaces. My year round space is the work shop. just go build shit, useless stuff, interesting stuff, boat parts, what ever. Good meditation for me means having the body and hands just occupied enough that some portion of your frontal cortex is occupied with not chopping your hands off or riding your bike into the ditch, and just enough brain power… Read more »

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

@thedeti, re: “The truth is that he was SPECIFICALLY TRAINED to repulse women.”

Yes. The ultimate expression of female resistance is their deliberate training of males to specifically encounter greater resistance.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

I really like Sun Wukong’s example of a giant smirk. An example towards which we could all train our faces.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

Back on topic. A true fitness test would be eminently passable: “I will have sex with you if you are fit enough.”

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@jf12 I really like Sun Wukong’s example of a giant smirk. An example towards which we could all train our faces. Bruce Lee was a shit actor but a spectacular martial artist, hence the reason the only emotion he could put across perfectly was ridiculous levels of cocky arrogance. His smirks make me laugh to no end. So much “Bitch, please” in them that he didn’t have to raise his hand to bitch slap somebody. I don’t think it’s about training your face. I think it’s about knowing you’re so much better than somebody in some domain that you can’t… Read more »

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@Johnycomelately January 14th, 2015 at 8:37 pm “I’ve seen men set up for devastating divorces by their spouses only to have the tables turn when they realized assets were in the husband’s parent’s name. You will never witnessed a bigger 360 and supplicating grovelling until you’ve seen a woman who has realized her gambit has failed and the cash and prizes has vanished.” Ain’t that the truth. Men must learn how to hold the cards, and how to be prudent from an RP perspective, financially and socially….especially in this day & age. I am already training my young nephew in… Read more »

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@Rollo Tomassi
January 15th, 2015 at 11:43 am

On unchanging standards….pure gold!!
Demonstrate, don’t explicate. hehe!

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@jf12: “There was a bunch of lesbian feminists who claimed all hetero sex is rape. To which the proper response would be “You wish!”

hahaha!

sfcton
6 years ago

One vote for the law of the jungle. Its more honest then the bullshit we have now but I reckon most men would be worse off

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

@Glen I think your anger about my comment reveals your frustration and you are projecting. You must overcome. Your comments consistently reflect that you understand the AFBB dynamic as explained here. It is good that you recognize some truth about these concepts. However, from reading your comments throughout this blog, I think that you are applying these descriptions as instruction. I do not think the description of AFBB herein is intended to instruct. I think and hope the intention is to illuminate reality rather than set a standard of behavior that men “should” comply with. If the description is accepted… Read more »

Nathan
Nathan
6 years ago

Girls can tell phenotypically if you will be a alpha fucks obviously and beta bucks yes phoenotypicallt success

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago

@ Not Born Without A Bucket-Load of Hyperbolic Horseshit Falling Out Of My Yap – Whatevs, yet more rhetoric that makes no difference. And just so you know, I’m not at top form at the moment – i’m venting stuff here and guys who know me for a while here have really responded helpfully . I’m not sure at all what you are up and am not edified by any of it. You make points which seem to be at great pains to seem profound but they aren’t. Nobody is conforming to jack shit here. What Rollo is doing is… Read more »

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Glenn You were talking about declining SMV, and understanding what some omega guys must feel when they’re supposed to be in their prime. I always thought this one hit the nail on the head. All too appropriate for the craziness everywhere these days. Chilling. Above all, this line right here: “I am a lover who’s never been kissed I am a fighter who’s not made a fist If I’m alive, then there’s so I’ve missed How do I know I exist? Are you listening to me?” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT1cxP3JT0c This one potential face of a failure to transtion to TRP looks… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Rollo

Haha, I can definitely tell you’ve had more practice than me. Good one.

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

@Glen, I’ve been married little over 20 years, one daughter, done everything imaginable with women. Married at 31, she was 22. She was (this is shallow but I’ll use it for reference anyway) an “8”, me a 9 good looking and worked my ass off in the gym for 10 + years, with a great income. We couldn’t have more children after our daughter, 5 failed attempts, discovered damaged fallopian tubes, cysts, ectopic pregnancies, unfortunate. I consider myself lucky in life in some respects, but no one who reaches our age escapes some very tough shit. I’m 51 and I… Read more »

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago

@ Not Born To Comment Usefully – Nothing new in your comment and why you think you need to continue to remonstrate me here – now repeatedly – is a mystery. Get it – I’m having a bad week, I digested the Red Pill a while ago but sometimes it’s not easy. That’s it. I’ve become a selfish prick and love it – I’m just having a lot of emotion come up about my past. You are not – good for you.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

Shaking myself off from my last comment, I realized something: Shame is a huge trigger for me. Wanting to be the ‘scumbag’ I always have been deep down, but feeling those pangs of shame. Shame that’s trying to suck me back into the BP. The only thing that has saved me from this has been rage. Specifically, rage based on how fucked over I’ve gotten in my life despite having nothing but the best of intentions. And I mean best. I was the perfect White Knight, the quintessential “Good Friend,” etc., the most caring and attentive person you’d ever meet… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

If age is an issue with you (and it is softly tapping on my door) know this real example of why it doesn’t have to be. My wife has an uncle who is 87. He is still active, golf, mows his yard. He looks like a healthy 70 year old. His wife of 50+ years died several years ago. They had a very active sex life. Everybody in her family gossiped about it because she bragged about it. He dated someone his age for a while after she passed and that woman died. He started dating another, she died. For… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

Softek

Yes…rage is a good thing. There is a reason for it. Our own internal rage can get us off our ass…..

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
6 years ago

The Deti, nice rant Bro! I know some of those boys, friends of my boys. But honestly, in my little sphere of reality, not even close. My boys and their friends (20 – 23 range) are feminized, in that they believe some of the feminist bullshit, but when it comes to actually dating or girl chasing, not even close to your description. Watching the Craft last night with my 21 year old. Football star loads up the new girl in high school. Asks her for a date, then as she opens her mouth, shuts her down, saying that actually he… Read more »

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago
Reply to  DeNihilist

@ DeNihilist – Great observation about the younger guys. My community is a college town with a great music program and I’ve fallen in with some of the young musicians and hang/play music with them sometimes. You are exactly right in some ways, the under 25s are evolving and some are incredibly smart about sex and women. I think it has something to do with porn and women’s open sexuality – they never had women on pedestals the way my generation did. However, I still see a huge amount of Betatude and BP too in some ways. Not sure what… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

Rollo – “Men fight in the physical, women fight in the psychological. When either sex crosses over into the preferred combat of the other sex it belies their contempt for their own gender.” Two questions: 1. Given men are absolutely and without exception forbidden from fighting women in physical how do we win with women without resorting to fighting in the psychological? 2. How is Game not fighting in the psychological? Yes, I presume women are, if not the enemy, then certainly the opponent. If the meta relationship is some form of positive collaboration by competition then it exists only… Read more »

Razorwire
Razorwire
6 years ago

“I think if you study the 25 or younger crowd, you may be amazed at how they view the world. In my part of the world, the pendulum is swinging again.” Well there is something to be said about coming of-age in the hypersexual smut culture. A lot more low hanging fruit. A lot tighter feedback loop. The “natural” aspects of game don’t have time to linger and die on the vine, untested, unrewarded. Sex is expected. Its ‘no big deal’. Those birds are aggressive. So that little reptilian brain is getting his doses of dopamine without 6 months of… Read more »

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

@Badpainter, re: “In the micro there is just conflict”

Yes. In the sexual conflict framework it is the sexual rejection of males by females that is all-important, and the sexual selection is a by-product, an afterthought, basically a mere failure to reject.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

re: “Men want to verify sexual availability to the same degree women want to verify a masculine dominance / confidence.”

I’ll restate myself. Masculine dominance is nothing but a man’s behavior directed toward a woman reflecting his level of absolute certainty that he could indeed bang her if he felt like it regardless of the negative feedback he may be receiving. More plainly, he behaves like he has the power to not take no for an answer. It means nothing else. And women have never meant anything else by it.

Jeremy
6 years ago

@Softek Shame is a huge trigger for me. Wanting to be the ‘scumbag’ I always have been deep down, but feeling those pangs of shame. Shame that’s trying to suck me back into the BP. Shame is a human thought process/emotion that is lightly dealt with by modern psychiatry. It hasn’t been fully diagnosed in its affect on humanity. Consider this question… Why do you wear clothing? If you live north of the Rockies this time of year, that answers itself. But if you live south of the southern U.S. border, there’s almost no reason to wear clothing at all… Read more »

Jeremy
6 years ago

I read M3’s piece on incel hell when he first posted it. I related to it so well it was almost as if I had written it. Women lurking would be wise to read that and attempt to understand it, for in doing so, you’ll grasp just how painful a lifetime of blue pill world rejection from women can be for a man. If you can understand the enormous pain that M3 was expressing, you can understand the pain that western women put their men through.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

In other words, given as truth what we’ve been told that about 40% of human males have reproduced, from one point of view 60% of males failed some shit tests to some degree. From another pov women’s resistance was too weak for some 40%.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

“In his Big Think interview, Vanderbilt anthropologist Ted Fischer explains that because love is a very positive evolutionary force, the barriers to it are actually quite low” for men. http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/how-to-fall-in-love-36-questions-and-deep-eye-contact It makes evolutionary sense for men to fall in love in order to fool themselves into sticking around. In contrast, it only makes evolutionary sense for women to slightly fall a little in love just long enough to fool the *men* into sticking around. Relationships are hard because falling in love is so easy for men, which makes falling *out* of love so easy for women. This is my epitaph… Read more »

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

For men: try to imagine shit-testing a woman you love.
For women: realize we now know exactly what you really (don’t) feel.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

A question for women, seriously. What is it that you think prevents a man from ignoring all of your feeble attempts to resist him? What?

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

“Feminists will soon agitate for “Erection Means Yes” laws.”
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/not-a-sjw-true-believer/#comment-156110

Actually historically that was the position that feminists used to claim that women could not rape a man with her vagina. The funny part is that women don’t know their own anatomy as well as men do.

Man: “You get hard too, sweetheart.”
Women: “I do?”

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

@ jf12

You’re asking interesting questions of beings that aren’t capable of answering because they lack the capacity for serious introspection.

BTW it’s men’s capacity for serious introspection that makes it so easy for us to take the bluepill.

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago

@ jf12 – “love: vestigal at best” – Holy shit, of course. Romantic love is designed to make me subjugate my own libidinous desires and I’ve got a lot more of them, so I need more love to be kept in check. Wow, fucking wow. You are on a roll of epic proportions, buddy, keep it coming. The conflict stuff is almost like taking another Red Pill. @ Softek – My psychological journey started with dealing with “shame based” issues 30 years ago. Books like At My Father’s Wedding and Healing the Shame that Binds You, and others in that… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
6 years ago

zDz:- Brooke Shields@49: “I can say with 100% certainty that I’d left swipe her on Tinder.”
She’s really got that (current) Clint Eastwood look now. But not in a nice way.

jimmy the saint
jimmy the saint
6 years ago

@ Glenn This played out verbatim for me and thank you for previous directions. “Shame presents itself as regret and embarrassment after social episodes of many types, replaying scenes in your head etc. It also feeds anger and awkwardness, making me behave badly and giving me real ammo for my shame. It’s a loop in this sense that thrives on its own feedbacks. With women it’s perfect for them. They learn how to trigger your shame and use it against you inside of a relationship. They also find it pathetic and as unsexy as anything they can imagine – your… Read more »

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago

@ jimmy the saint – Nice. There is a lot more to say about this, but again, I’ll try not to do 5000 words, lol. Fear – Shame and fear can be confused when we discuss them. Shame is self-loathing, fear results from anticipation of some kind of future negative outcome. In the codependency world we talk about “shame spirals” and they are really about how fear and shame interact and compound each other in a downward cycle of outlook and emotional state. In my case, I have chronic, acute, childhood onset PTSD, which went on ‘roids after a life… Read more »

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Glenn re: “love deficit disorder” That sounds a lot like the book I’ve been reading. Just got it last week. It came out in 2012, is about Emotional Neglect, and I think it’s the first book ever published on the topic. As far as a love deficit goes, the title of the book is “Running on Empty” — very much in line with that, and gets into detail about internalizing guilt and shame and rage. http://www.amazon.com/Running-Empty-Overcome-Childhood-Emotional/dp/161448242X “I bet when you let your anger out and let it be known, people are shocked – they have no idea what your… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Glenn As sort of an aside to your talking about shame, it seems like so many men in the ‘sphere come to it as a result of a lifetime of shaming and other kinds of psychological damage. Each time I see a new mainstream article starting to take note of TRP, it’s about how it’s misogynist, angry, and vengeful. All I can think is “This is the only space where men who are truly broken from a lifetime of having his natural inborn feelings pathologized can go to fix the damage society has done. Of course it looks that way,… Read more »

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Glenn Have a good time. I find that I’ve been craving nature a lot more lately. Going out and clearing your head can help a lot. I think even on a limbic level it sends a strong message to the brain when you can switch from an extremely negative state to letting it go, and enjoying something fun. In NLP it’s thought of as a “good-bad collapse.” I’ve been slowly getting better about my rage, but yeah, I have a history of a lot of it. I got the cops called on me when I was 15 and was… Read more »

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Sun Wukong I was almost that guy so many times, and I had friends that felt the same way. Guys that not only had zero success with ANY girls, but were mercilessly bullied, shamed, etc., for no reason other than they were emotionally damaged, had no coping skills, and lived in broken homes. My own family was completely fucked up and I literally had nowhere to go and no one to turn to. I would isolate myself at school, get bullied by my neighbor and his friend when I’d go home, and when I’d go in the house one… Read more »

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

@Badpainter, re: interesting questions

I don’t think it’s a lack of them knowing the answer; it’s a lack of them liking the answer.

Which is, of course: cuz we such nice guys an’ all.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

re: the feminists reading this blog: I find it funny that they CONVENIENTLY IGNORE plights of guys like me. The worst thing I did in my life was threaten my dad and sister with a knife, without hurting them, and without any actual real intention of hurting them, and that was after YEARS of complete emotional neglect, torment and abuse. Not to mention the time, for example, that my dad forcibly restrained me while I was screaming and crying, and literally ORDERED my sister to start hitting me as hard as she could while I screamed my head off begging… Read more »

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago

@ Sun Wukong – Shame is not an asset when dealing with shit tests. I too also wonder at what point women will realize that they are painting men into a corner – a superior being physically. I think many women are so detached from reality that they have no fear of men. This is a huge miscalculation on their behalf and one that they will rue one day. They are really going crazy now, I saw a vid of a radfem who confronted some protesters she didn’t like on the street and she shoved her way into one of… Read more »

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

Re: on women Just Getting It. I think we’re all in agreement on what women mean when they say a man ought to Just Get It to be more attractive. Women mean that a man ought to be able to ignore all of his upbringing and social conditioning and what women say and Just Act Dominant towards women. Ok, so, we Get It Now. But is there a parallel that women should Just Get despite being told otherwise? Although women should definitely Just Stifle It and Just Service Me, it’s not like any significant percentage of men or society has… Read more »

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

Concept for the day. As an effective social conflict stratagem, it is not enough for just one woman to be picky/unreproductive. She has to convince all other women to follow her same strategy, or else they will definitely out-reproduce her. It’s not enough, for example, for 10% of women to use birth control. What starts out being promoted as a choice becomes effectively mandatory “Three kids?!? What are you, some kind of super-fertile freakazoid?” Women do not have any other effective female-centered option that does not involve sticking with the herd or forcing the whole herd to change. Hence, male-centered… Read more »

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

Also to clarify: The temptation with learning about what’s happened to us, in this case, learning about the FI and the world we live in — is to use it as an excuse to be angry. End goal is always to use the negative emotions to fuel, if anything, positive behaviors. Perfect example: weightlifting. I used to buy into the myth about “body equality” and how people’s personalities should be cherished over their physical looks. I was a perfect little white knight. And 140 lbs soaking wet at 5’11”. At my worst I was 118 lbs. When I hooked up… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Glenn I think many women are so detached from reality that they have no fear of men. This is a huge miscalculation on their behalf and one that they will rue one day. I wouldn’t say they have no fear of them, but they want to have no fear of them. Hence tripe like YMY in an attempt to make it so women get to walk around with a false sense of security. As was mentioned when YMY was put in to place though, that sense of security will lead women who do have no fear of men as a… Read more »

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Rollo

re: feminists

Thanks for correcting me and clarifying; that’s an important point.

I don’t know if there’s a “name” to call them, e.g. “feminists,” or “equalists”, to summarize what they’re representing.

Maybe just “women”? Funny…did I hear a blip go off on someone’s “Politically Correct” radar somewhere?

Heh.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Softek

Pressing a 135lb barbell over your head is easy. That’s a good goal to start with – standard 7′ olympic bar (45 lbs) with a 45 lb plate on each side. If you can do that you can press a majority of girls over your head.

Around here at 135lbs you might be able to lift the majority of chicks under 5’0″. Not any taller though.

Goddamn I’m sick of the south. Can’t wait to move.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

And the winner so far, in my second day of reading sexual conflict, is Shackelford. Yet another fine, fine quote that doesn’t even go far enough: “Believing the truth of one’s own lies may help to convince others of their veracity and so self-deception may evolve. …To the extent that he can convince himself that he wants a long-term romantic commitment, his self-deceptive behavior may help to persuade the woman that his intentions are sincere, and so self-deception may indirectly become a sexually selected trait. Likewise, a woman may consciously convince herself that she loves a man while unconsciously being… Read more »

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

arrgh, “social conflict” should be “sexual conflict”. And no, it doesn’t explain “too much”.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

Here’s some really really bad test-“passing” advice:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sexualitytoday/201501/fifty-shades-grey-and-the-tests-love

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

@Softek, re: ““OH WOW UR SO STRONG”

Believe it or not I have actually gotten this said to me, more than once, and I have never ever been very strong. I used to think it was totally the women’s attempting to deceive me, but now I’m leaning to thinking that they were simply self-deceived and expressing how they really felt at the time.

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

Sun Wukong – “For some reason though women want to believe they can create a world where this is no longer true. Where you can provoke and provoke and provoke and nothing ever happens to you.”

Create a world? This is the world we live in. This is the source of the “Fuck That” response.

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

@Sun Wukong, re: “We know how dangerous it is to provoke someone physically stronger than us.”

Yes, but not just that comparison with ourselves; there’s a noncomparative threshold effect. Provided the guy is strong enough to break my face, it really doesn’t matter if he’s literally 101% my strength. 80% of my strength will still break my face.

gregdw
6 years ago

@softek not for nothing but getting 135lbs of giggling, floppy girl over your head takes a lot more strength than it does to press a barbell

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

re: “OH WOW UR SO BEAUTIFUL”

See? A guy in the heat of the moment *totally* feels that way.

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

jf12 – “But is there a parallel that women should Just Get despite being told otherwise?”

No.

You see it’s inherent in their nature to behave this way. To exploit weakess, use trickery, lies, boobies, tears, and whatever else are all fair game to optimize hypergamy. They do get it actually. Until the men silence the feminists and their male stooges we will be in this conflict with neither appropriate weapons nor allies.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Rollo …Well… …we all know the solution to this. We all better start working harder to pick up women. As men, it’s our responsibility. I’d go so far as to say we owe it to them. Especially in this day and age when women are requiring way more effort to pick up than ever before. Just remember when you’re practicing your pickup skills: if you’re not cleaning the bar from the floor before you press it over your head, it doesn’t count. New Year’s Challenge: If you can’t press at least 300 pounds over your head by the end… Read more »

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

Can it possibly be a mere coincidence that the threshold for male strength-attractiveness to females is exactly the point at which he can physically sexually force the majority of women?

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

@Softek, new motto “Man up and carry off those hawgs!”

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

I’m actually having a great time here throwing rocks expertly at trees and figuring out all the solutions to World Problems and not having to worry about shaving or taking a bath or anything.

But where are all the girls, anyway? Seriously, I know they’re lurking. Are they wary? Are they repulsed? Do they think they’d be intruding? What is it?

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

Softek – “Are you man enough?”

Is she woman enough to merit the effort?

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

One place w/ female scents.
https://lovingintheruins.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/doe-he-really-know-you-if-not-why/comment-page-2/#comment-8951
“A woman doesn’t “allow” him to be or prevent him from being a man.”

Obviously women do *try* to prevent men. It’s basically their job description. What the women are saying is, in one sense, apex fallacy: a woman wants a man to be so powerful that he completely crushes every attempt at resisting him she could possibly make. But the good news for men is that she’ll settle for a bloke who exceeds that minor power threshold we were just talking about.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Rollo

They’re not “fat”, they’re “fluffy”.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Softek Your enthusiasm is nice, but I don’t owe women shit. Don’t work out or work on pick up or any of that with the pretense of owing something to anyone but yourself. If a woman is a complement to an already full life, then she is not your motivation to do a goddamn thing. You are the motivation to do things in your life. Work out because you deserve to feel awesome. Pick up women because you deserve to get laid. Make fat stacks of cash because you deserve to live in luxury. Women need to make themselves worthy… Read more »

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

BTW I’ve just recently learned that retail doe urine, including all the extracts commonly sold, in addition to the previously publicized possibity of prion diseases, carries a quite significant risk of leptospira.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

I feel like people missed my sarcasm……

…anyone else hear a 747 flying by overhead, or is it just me?

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

Softek – “I feel like people missed my sarcasm……”

Perhaps a different font, if possible Comic Sans. No one takes Comic Sans seriously.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

Ah, perhaps I did. Damn you internet and your lack of tone of voice.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Badpainter

LOL

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Sun Wukong No buddy, you got it all wrong. You have to earn women’s respect. What kind of man are you? Not man enough to make a real woman happy like she always deserved to be, since the moment she was born? She’s a girl, you know. We’d be lucky to land a 350 lb nagging Wal-Mart junkie if we were jacked like Arnold. That’s the least they deserve. Learn how to do dishes and cook, too. Even BETTER to wear an apron while doing it. Women LOVE that shit. TRUST ME. There we go. Although the old Softek… Read more »

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