The Love Experience

experience

Glenn and a few others had a question about last week’s Love Commodity post.:

@Rollo – This seems very inconsistent to me. How can this be true – ” Men and women can and do love each other intensely and genuinely. They can and do see past each other’s deficiencies and their love endures. ” While this is true? “In an era of unapologetic feminine primacy and unignorable open Hypergamy, this commodification undeniably rests with the feminine.”

You’ll have to forgive a long explanation, I couldn’t simply drop this into the commentary, a full post was necessary.

The first thing we need to consider is the Male Experience vs. the female experience. I hate to get too existential, but it comes down to our individuated experiences as men and women. I’m going to give two examples here and this will also cover the Hypergamy is everything thread I noticed the commentary too.

There’s an interesting conflict of societal messaging we get from an equalitarian / feminine-primary social order. This is one that simultaneously tells us that “we are not so different” or “we are more alike than we are different” and then, yet implores use to “celebrate our diversity” and “embrace (or tolerate) our differences” as people.

This is easily observable in issues of ethnicity, but it also crosses over into issues of gender. The most popular trope is that ideas of gender are a social construct and that women and men are comparative equals and only their physical plumbing makes them different in form only.

From a Red Pill perspective we see the error in evidence of this egalitarian fantasy. I’ve written countless posts on the evidential and logical fallacies that make up gender equalism, but the important thing to be aware of is the conflict inherent within that belief – equalism expects men and women’s existential experiences to be the same, while also pleading that we embrace the differences it purports we don’t actually have.

It fundamentally denies the separation, from an evolved biological / psychological perspective, that men and women experience life in different ways. The idea is that it’s the nebulous ‘society’ that determines our gender experiences and less, if nothing, of it is truly influenced by a human being’s psychological-biological firmware.

zdr01dz posted this:

I think maybe this is in part because men have no innate desire to marry up. Hypergamy doesn’t compute for us. I know what hunger feels like and I assume women feel it the same way I do. I’m empathetic to poor, hungry children because I know what they’re feeling. However I have no idea what hypergamy feels like. I’ve never felt it’s pull.

My second example comes from Women and Sex in which I explore the fallacy of the social convention that insists “women are just as sexual as men” and that “women want sex, enjoy sex, even more than men.”

This canard is both observably and biologically disprovable, but the presumption is based on the same “we’re all the same, but celebrate the difference” conflicting principle that I mentioned above. If a dynamic is complimentary to the feminine then the biological basis is one we’re expected to ’embrace the diversity’ of, but if the dynamic is unflattering to the feminine it’s the result “of a society that’s fixated on teaching gender roles to ensure the Patriarchy, we’re really more alike than not.”

The idea is patently false because there is no real way any woman can experience the existence and conditions that a man does throughout his life. I mention in that essay about how a female amateur body builder I knew who was dumbstruck by how horny she became after her first cycle of anabolic steroids. “I can’t believe men can live in a state like this” were her exact words. She was just beginning to get a taste of what men experience and control in their own skins 24 hours a day and it was unsettling for her.

Women are used to a cyclic experience of sexuality, whereas men must be ready to perform at the first, best opportunity sexually. These are our individuated experiences and despite all the bleating of the equalists they are qualitatively different. As zdr01dz observes, no man has an idea of what Hypergamy feels like. To my knowledge there is no drug or hormone that can simulate the existential experience of Hypergamy. Even if there were, men and women’s minds are fundamentally wired differently, so the simulated experience could never be replicated for a man.

I understand how Hypergamy works from observing the behavior and understanding the motivating biology for it. I also understand that our species evolved with, and benefitted from it – or at least it makes deductive sense that what we know as Hypergamy today is a derivative of that evolution – but what I don’t have is a firsthand, existential experience of Hypergamy and I never will. Likewise, women will never have a similar existential experience of what it’s like to be a man.

So it should be an easy follow to deduce that how a woman experiences love, as based on her Hypergamic opportunistic impulses, is a fundamentally different experience than that of a man’s. The equalist social order want’s love to be an equal, mutual, agreement on a definition of love that transcends individuated gender experience, but it simply will not accept that an intersexual experience of love is defined by each sex’s individuated experience.

I have no doubt that there are areas of crossover in both men’s idealistic concept of love and women’s opportunistic concept, but this experience of love is still defined by gender-specific individuation. By that I mean that women can and do experience intense feelings of love for a man based on her Hypergamously influenced criteria for love.

I’m actually surprised that more women have yet to call me to the carpet about their personal experiences of love from the commodity post, but if you sift through the comments on Women in Love and other blog/forum comments you’ll come across examples of women describing in great detail how deeply they love their husbands / boyfriends, and are in complete disarray over being told their love stems from Hypergamic opportunism. Again, I have no doubt that their feelings of love are genuine to them based on their individuated concepts of love; indeed they’re ready to fight you tooth and nail to defend their investment in those feelings. What I’m saying is that the criteria a man should need to meet in order to generate those emotions and arrive at a love state are not universally mutual as an equalitarian social order would have the whole of society believe.

So, yes, men and women can and do love each other intensely and genuinely – from their own individuated experiences. They can and do see past each other’s deficiencies and their love endures. The processes they used to come to this love state differs in concept and existential individuation, and what sustains that love state is still dependent upon the criteria of men’s idealistic and women opportunistic concepts of love.

The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

The commodification of that love state is presently weighted on the feminine because the Feminine Imperative is socially ascendant. The importance of satisfying the female sexual (and really life-goal) strategy takes primary social precedence today. Thus men’s individuated experience is devalued to an assumption of an “it’s-all-equal” universality while women’s is blown up out of all real valuation with collective expectations of “embracing their unique difference” set apart from that universality. If men’s experience is one-size-fits-all it’s really a small, and socially blameless, step for a woman to withhold the reward criteria men place on their idealistic love in order to satisfy their own sexual strategy.

Women’s social primacy allows them to feel good about themselves for commodifying the idealistic rewards men value to come to their own state of love, as well as maintain it.

It is one further step to embrace the concept that men’s experience of love, the idealism he applies to it and even his own sexual and life imperatives are in fact the same as those of women’s – while still setting women’s apart when it serves them better. Thus the cardinal rule of sexual strategies comes to a feminine-primary consolidation by socially convincing men that women’s experience and imperatives are, or should be considered to be, the same as men’s individuated experiences. Add women’s already innate solipsism to this and you have a formula for a gender-universal presumption of the experience of love based primarily on the individuated female experience of love.

In other words, women expect men to socially and psychologically agree with, reinforce and cooperate with the opportunistic feminine model of love as the equalist, gender-mutual model model of love while still believing that women share their own idealistic model. It’s the correct model that should work for everyone, or so women’s solipsism would have us believe.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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M Simon
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Sun Wukong
January 8th, 2015 at 5:30 pm

I side with you on the question.

thedeti
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Why does an alleged “alpha female” feel the intense need to spew paragraph on paragraph about how “alpha” “she” is and how beta she thinks everyone else is?

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Jeremy
January 8th, 2015 at 6:07 pm

We have pretty good evidence that a lot of homosexuality is hormones in the womb. The odds go up with every male birth in humans. Not by a lot. But they do go up.

We also have pig studies.
in the womb :
MMM – masculine.
FMF – feminized.

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thedeti
January 8th, 2015 at 10:10 pm

Why does an alleged “alpha female” feel the intense need to spew paragraph on paragraph about how “alpha” “she” is and how beta she thinks everyone else is?

Because she is trying to cover her weak betahood.

I sense a 40 paragraph screech coming over the hill.

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@alphafemale

Well…you picked an oxymoron for your title here. This is very appropriate, being a most excellent precursor for your idiotic lack of reasoning and complete inability to argue with any amount of logic.

Your childish comments aren’t worthy of consideration much less refute. They are moronic blather on every level.

There is no one for you here.

Novaseeker
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However, I do want to point out that dominant women exist – Alpha Females unite – because men seem to think they don’t. And the point of RP philosophy is to create alpha males out of beta males, when I am telling you there are many women like me who will select a person with ‘beta’ tendencies INTENTIONALLY because that’s what we need in order to be happy. Yes, you exist. I have met femdoms before (female dominant, which is what you are, you say you are dominant). Most women, of whatever pedigree, education, professional advancement, are not “relationship dominant”.… Read more »

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“alpha female”

Guys, you are wasting your time and energy responding to this wench. Don’t be seduced into her stenchy maelstrom of bullshit.

AlphaFemale
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M Simon, “Why does an alleged “alpha female” feel the intense need to spew paragraph on paragraph about how “alpha” “she” is and how beta she thinks everyone else is?” For the same reason that there is an entire blog and subreddit dedicated to men circlejerking about how “alpha” males get “all the girls” while “betas” always finish last. My guess is similar logic may apply there. Hypocrisy is something you guys know intimately. In fact, I’m not sure you can form a cogent reply without using it. Give it a shot. Impress me. I’ll make sure that most of… Read more »

redlight
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…while “betas” always finish last…

your SO did finish last, he got you

jf12
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re: “A femdom…have never heard of such a thing.”

The reason we can so easily dismiss her points is because she wants to be recognized as being wrong in a silly flighty way.

jf12
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@deti re: AFOG, hee hee

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re: “many women like me who will select a person with ‘beta’ tendencies INTENTIONALLY”

Many female primates do let beta males bring them bananas and eat bugs out of their hair. But the betas are doing it with hope.

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@Novaseeker re: “Heh, I am surrounded by alpha females.”

Me too. I don’t know why such women think they’re special, much less “better”, much less “best”.

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@redlight, re: “your SO did finish last, he got you”

That whoosh we hear is raising her hair, but she’ll pretend otherwise.

jf12
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re: the Love Experience

getting back on topic, isn’t my (one of my) summaries just too neato? Romantic love is the psych-out by which the mating selection process is halted: males’ innate polygamy is halted by the feeling of oneitis, and females’ innate hypergamy is halted by the feeling of bestitis.

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novaseeker, “There are not “many” of you. There are “a few” of you. At this point in time, there are oceans of submissive men who have not learned to be masculine, properly, and they vastly outnumber the women who are naturally relationship-dominant.” Okay here’s my problem with this logic. You say women are naturally submissive in relationships but then you go on to say that there is an ocean of submissive men who have not learned to be masculine properly. Could I not say the same that there are an ocean of submissive women that have just not learned how… Read more »

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redlight, he doesn’t think so. smile He thinks he’s quite lucky. He thinks you guys are pathetic losers that don’t understand the value of an intelligent, accomplished, attractive woman that doesn’t roll over every time you say down girl. <— quote. Toodles, beta.

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re: “I am just of the opinion that if you treat women as if they’re valuable, they will want to be treated that way”

We kept trying that and it didn’t work.

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re: “he wouldn’t want a submissive woman that had never challenged him”

I’ve never met one nor heard of one, but every True Man wants one.

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You say women are naturally submissive in relationships but then you go on to say that there is an ocean of submissive men who have not learned to be masculine properly. Could I not say the same that there are an ocean of submissive women that have just not learned how to wield their power and become dominant in their relationships? No, because it is against their respective natures. You disagree, which is fine, but you are an outlier for a reason, and it is this: your preferences do not reflect those of most women. You can preach/teach all you… Read more »

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M Simon, you dont believe in Alpha Females so is anyone surprised you think I’m beta or (lol) beta minus? You don’t know me. Just thought I’d throw out that reminder since you’ve decided to argue with me about my personality traits just to assert your perceived dominance. It’s cool. Believe what you want. You’re just some random dude on the Internet. of course you’re not going to change your fucked up world view because a woman says on an Internet blog she’s dominant. The fact is and other men on this blog can attest to the existence of alpha… Read more »

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Let me settle the debate about transgenderism.
It isn’t a social construct or impressionable boys gone awry. It’s almost certainly the result of some type of biological damage. How that might work in humans is anybodies guess.

Further reading below.

Harvard Magazine: When Minnie Turns Mickey
http://harvardmagazine.com/2008/03/when-minnie-turns-mickey.html

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Jfl12, because she still believed she didn’t have value. For some women, it’s been engrained in them since childhood so it’s a difficult mindset to break. Have you all ever met a woman that had a very nurturing childhood and that had mid to high self esteem put up with this behavior from their man? re: “he wouldn’t want a submissive woman that had never challenged him” I’ve never met one nor heard of one, but every True Man wants one. Well, he says he doesn’t. I’m up to speed on his anatomy and can verify he is a true… Read more »

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Stop the presses. Woman likes to believe she is a “challenge” and that that is an attractive quality. Her and 3 billion other women.

What is it about “the vast majority of men have to put up with being beta just to get sex but would prefer a nice woman instead” is so difficult for a woman to understand?

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@ Alpha Female It’s interesting to see how men who are extremely threatened by women that are more intelligent, powerful, and are inherently stronger and better looking than them behave and think. This line of reasoning cracks me up because feminists have it backwards as usual. A woman isn’t attracted to a man unless…. 1) The man is taller 2) The man is stronger 3) The man is smarter 4) The man is more talented 5) The man is wealthier Put simply a woman isn’t attracted to a man unless the man is superior to her in every way except… Read more »

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Having been on the red pill journey for the better part of two years, I don’t think that actual male dominance is related to the female. Dominance is what you acquire over living your life as a determined man who wants to organize his life in an authentic, action-oriented way. When you do that, you naturally become dominant because you are single-minded in your pursuit. A woman is just a piece of that life and she will happily submit into it. Any attempts at dominance directly over the woman, which are not coherent with the rest of your life and… Read more »

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re: “Have you all ever met a woman that had a very nurturing childhood and that had mid to high self esteem put up with this behavior from their man?”

Yes. Most women SEEK OUT (i.e. “put up with”) this behavior from alpha males until those women can no longer seek it out successfully. Then they settle for being treated well by betas.

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“He thinks he’s quite lucky. He thinks you guys are pathetic losers that don’t understand the value of an intelligent, accomplished, attractive woman that doesn’t roll over every time you say down girl”

why don’t you just go ahead and give him permission to read all this and post his own comment?

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“Have you all ever met a woman who had a very nurturing childhood [and grew up to be a spoiled princess who believed she was literally better than men]?”

I’ve scarcely ever met any women who were NOT.

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If you truly believe women are naturally submissive, then how likely are you to grant women power in business? I don’t care much about that, actually. I know many powerful women in business. I have no issues with them. I only have issues when women want to change the rules so that they can have kids without being docked for it, if they choose to take a few years off. That’s a lifestyle choice, and it has conssequences. If women want to be single minded and go to the top and are qualified, I have no issue with it. I’ve… Read more »

Ang Aamer
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500+ comments Rollo

Congratulations. I don’t think I have seen ANY blog get this many to a post.

Bravo

[*takes a bow*]

jf12
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Is it ironic that a self-described intelligent woman cannot see that this article’s picture, even, well illustrates the opportunism of women that applies to her own situation. She doesn’t even have to have reading comprehension.

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Rollo, your perspective is what makes you think what Sheryl Sandberg said supports Red Pill philosophy. 1. She never indicated women should be the submissive in relationships. In fact, she never mentioned power dynamics at all. Second, the inference we can draw from her quote is to NOT settle down with an AF. She didn’t say only date AF’s either she said everyone which includes BB’s. Seriously I thight you were posting that to mock her at first, but then you used that to justify TRP…? Does TRP not advocate any LTR’s at all? Who is the dominant in an… Read more »

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@zdr “In Twilight how is Bella superior to Edward? Short answer she isn’t. Disclaimer: I haven’t read Twilight, I got that from my wife.” Good that would be very beta of you to have read it. I can’t get my husband to even watch the movie with me. I try to tell him that as my beta bitch, he must do as I say, but alas he does have a mind of his own. (Kidding guys…) Bella is superior to Edward because she is human (which Edward and all of the other vampires in the novel view as more desirable… Read more »

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Rollo, you didn’t answer my questions. What she is saying is to have a variety of human experiences before you settle down with a man that views you as an equal and values you. A very feminist mindset. Maybe you’re a closeted feminist if you think her positions supports TRP? Who knew…really we’re not that far apart. Date all the men (plate theory) then settle down with a man that values you (beta tendencies). None of that is TRP. TRP states that women will always branch swing from man to man and will cheat on a beta with an alpha.… Read more »

M Simon
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AlphaFemale
January 8th, 2015 at 10:38 pm

tl;dr

Badpainter
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@ M. Simon

Re: tl;dr

I stopped reading her comments the she first time she said “hetero normative.” Did I miss anything?

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I don’t know what you mean by “knowingly support.” You can’t really control who your partner slept with previous to you, can you? If by ‘knowingly support’ you mean date the person regardless of the fact that they had sex with other people before you, then there are lots of men that do this. Most men do this. Most men would be hypocrites to not do it since they have had many many partners. Do you require that the women you LTR be virgins while you have slept with a lot of women? How stupid. Which reminds me. Another thing… Read more »

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redlight
January 8th, 2015 at 11:58 pm

why don’t you just go ahead and give him permission to read all this and post his own comment?

Cracked me up. As has so much else on this thread recently.

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Badpainter
January 9th, 2015 at 1:29 am

@ M. Simon

Re: tl;dr

I stopped reading her comments the she first time she said “hetero normative.” Did I miss anything?

Hard to say. I have been skipping over myself.

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M Simon

tl;dr Not all women respond well to TRP. Some women like being treated with respect. The reason women say they want to be treated well but their actions convey that they want to be treated badly is because they have low self esteem.

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Novaseeker January 9th, 2015 at 12:08 am If women want to be single minded and go to the top and are qualified, There are some who are qualified. Most are not. These days what I see are “affirmative action” women. When they start causing more trouble than they are worth they can’t be fired so they get a “special” job because they are so “special”. In other words – shunted aside. Placed where they can do the least harm. The problems I have seen. 1. Uneducated – this does not mean no school. It means they get their opinions from… Read more »

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Novaseeker, Wow. I’m surprised every time I hear about women that are not for equality. I am genuinely curious about why she pursued a PhD. I disagree that a woman having children should be used as a disqualifier in business. There’s a lot of bias against mothers in business from all sides. Either they spend too much time with their kids or not enough time with their kids. It’s a no win for women who have kids and are also business people. Men are not held to these standards, and we’re not super women. At the same time, I understand… Read more »

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M Simon,

You are a perfect example of why TRP is problematic for women in business. Thanks for spewing nonsense and proving my point that these toxic attitudes result in men undervaluing or disregarding women in the workplace (which is illegal btw). Was that short enough or do I need to break it down even further for you?

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Novaseeker
January 9th, 2015 at 12:08 am

The fm bought into all that equalitarian shite. It has a strong attraction for her. Every time she tries acting it out her relationship with me crashes. And since she has bestis for me she always comes back around. And she says (with a little prompting), “I’m happier when I submit.” I frequently ask why she doesn’t submit all the time. I often get back that she can’t break faith with he Bene Gesserit (sisterhood). Too funny. BTW “Bene Gesserit” is my term for it. She uses terms like “feminism”.

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Wow. I’m surprised every time I hear about women that are not for equality. I am genuinely curious about why she pursued a PhD. Wanted the degree. Not as a way to lord power over men. She didn’t have it when we met, but I supported her in completing it. It’s specifics in terms of expertised knowledge. Not all women who are very intelligent and pursue higher degrees see it as a means to power, as you seem to do. Thank goodness for that. But a lot of women come back from that and start at the bottom and have… Read more »

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Rollo Tomassi January 9th, 2015 at 12:32 am Well, for that answer maybe we should have a look at what those women advocate for once they are ‘granted’ power in businesses they had no part in creating: So true. You see dear, it’s not the Red Pill or the manosphere who will facilitate the downfall of a feminine-primary society – it’ll be those dominant women you hold in such high esteem who will destroy it I differ a little here on the reason. It will not be sexual strategies. It will be incompetence. God help us but I hope the… Read more »

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Novaseeker, How does having a PhD benefit a woman whose mindset is that women are naturally inferior to men? Why would she need the extra knowledge is my question? I’m not insulting her. I’m just asking a question. Why are you getting defensive? Uh…where have you worked that pregnancy has been considered privileged? Where I worked, pregnancy was definitely not privileged. This was before I started the business, and I worked in a different industry. I asked my manager if at 8 months pregnant I could sit down when I wasn’t attending to clients, and he said no….At 8 months… Read more »

M Simon
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This is telling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golda_Meir

David Ben-Gurion used to call Meir “the best man in the government”;

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I disagree that a woman having children should be used as a disqualifier in business. There’s a lot of bias against mothers in business from all sides. Either they spend too much time with their kids or not enough time with their kids. It’s a no win for women who have kids and are also business people. Men are not held to these standards, and we’re not super women. At the same time, I understand that a long break from work (of several years) results in less hands on experience if the woman is not working. But a lot of… Read more »

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Uh…where have you worked that pregnancy has been considered privileged? Where I worked, pregnancy was definitely not privileged. This was before I started the business, and I worked in a different industry. I asked my manager if at 8 months pregnant I could sit down when I wasn’t attending to clients, and he said no….At 8 months pregnant, I couldn’t even sit down for my whole workday. I’m interested to hear how you think pregnant women are catered to in the workplace. This is not my experience, once again. In larger corporations (I’m thinking Fortune 500 level), pregnant women most… Read more »

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Random Angeleno January 9th, 2015 at 3:14 am Good points but you left out two important ones. Compartmentalization and task focus. Women have difficulty being single minded and goal oriented. Men are notorious for that. It is often a dig because it is so obvious. She is thinking – “can I get home in time for the kids?” Probably three hours before quitting time. He is thinking, “I must focus all my attention on the problem to have any chance for a home life tonight.” And if he doesn’t get done in time? He will be there all night. She… Read more »

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Random Angeleno, Is your contention that Mary is treated as an equal to Peter and that she is promoted at the same rate that Peter is even though she is a woman and has children that she attends to regularly? Because statistically, it’s highly unlikely that’s the case. What if Mary is smarter and more competent at the job than Peter, but Peter is physically on the job more and puts in more hours. Who, in your view, should get the promotion then? Assuming you believe that women can be smarter than men. I never know who I’m talking to… Read more »

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Self-esteem, huh. The shadier side of game only works on women if they have low self-esteem. This gets repeated a lot. Now, that just ain’t my style (couldn’t be bothered), but there’s a thread of Red Pill truth in there that needs pulling. Why is our culture so concerned with female self-esteem? Looks to me like there’s a surplus of it – take a browse through social media, flip the channels, pick up a paper – all busting at the seams with feminine pride (hubris, really). But Sally keeps going for assholes. Can’t be her fault at all, she’s just… Read more »

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Yes self-esteem. “Why is our culture so concerned with female self-esteem?” Because it’s in the toilet. It’s affecting your life, obviously, or you wouldn’t be part of the red pill gang now would ya? “Nobody gives a flying fuck about male self-esteem, except to attack and ridicule any attempt to bring it up,” One day men will realize they also benefit from feminism. Feminists don’t think it’s taboo for men to have feelings and discuss them with others. “including here,” Especially here. “Low confidence, buddy? Your fucking problem.” Hyper masculinity and red pill philosophy further the societal expectation that men… Read more »

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Hahahaha. Touched a nerve. .

None more ruthless in attacking self-esteem than women, whether it’s that of men or their female peers. It’s not second nature, it’s first. Little thing called Relational Aggression. That’s right, boys beat each other up, but girls have the patent rights locked on emotional bullying.

And feminism’s gonna save us all?

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@alpha female Biases and heuristics are powerful, and we are all susceptible to their influence. Particularly biases of affect. We can look at the same statistics and come to different conclusions based on what we want to believe – what we hope is true, what we think SHOULD be true, or what we are afraid MIGHT be true. Thus, it behooves all of us to remain open to changing our minds (myself included). I mentioned to you that most of us were raised with equalist beliefs, and the women in our lives told us that was what they wanted with… Read more »

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re: “The question is WHY”

Because women see badness as masculine. This ain’t rocket science.

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re: “what she said to do is exactly what men do.”

Apex fallacy. Like a woman, her solipsism prmpts her to lecture us on what she erroneously believes the red pill means, without realizing (even though we keep telling her!) that by doing so she is conforming to all of our models of this behavior.

jf12
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re: “Most men do this.”

Most men have to swallow ther pride because they’re betas.

re: “Most men would be hypocrites to not do it since they have had many many partners.”

Apex fallacy + projection.

jf12
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re: “Why would I respect someone who disrespects me? That makes no sense.”

Women don’t make *rational* sense for the most part concerning relationships, but all of this (waves hands around) discussion about redpill descriptions of women’s behaviors has a (admittedly disgusting) logic of its own. Women DO indeed respect bad boy men who disrespect them, beat them down, etc. It’s not my fault.

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re: “Feminists don’t think it’s taboo for men to have feelings and discuss them with others.”

Yes, feminists abhor
1) Male spaces
1) Masculine feelings

Feminisits insist there are “right” (female) feelings and “right” (female)opinions that males MUST agree on, and our institutions MUST indoctrinate them.

jf12
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Keep in mind that α♀ is commenting on a Love post about her noncomformity in Love: how she isn’t hypergamous because her guy wasn’t the best, but (according to her) he thinks sh’es best.

Hee hee

zdr01dz
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@ AlphaFemale I’m also not disputing that some masculine qualities are desirable to hetero women. I’ve said that multiple times. Taller and stronger are typical masculine traits. I agree that taller, stronger men are seen as more attractive to females. The rest of it I don’t agree with. I don’t think women have to have a man that’s smarter, wealthier, or more talented than they are. But that’s because I don’t fundamentally view women as inferior to men so…that probably colors my view on it. You are substantially incorrect. The object of interest in romance novels is never a tall,… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Jesus guys, why are y’all still responding to this obnoxious harpy?

Novaseeker
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How does having a PhD benefit a woman whose mindset is that women are naturally inferior to men? Why would she need the extra knowledge is my question? I’m not insulting her. I’m just asking a question.

From texts (from her after reading all of this) …

That woman is an idiot.

She can’t understand that some women have a cooperative mindset, not a competitive one.

I got a PhD to enable myself to do what I love, not to make myself “better” than someone else. Sheez .. It is about science, bitch.

There you go.

Sun Wukong
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The louder they screech, the closer you are to the truth. She’s screeching like a momma bird shooing off an aircraft carrier wing.

zdr01dz
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@ AlphaFemale
Bella is superior to Edward because she is human (which Edward and all of the other vampires in the novel view as more desirable than being a vampire, as humans can procreate and live a normal life). In fact, Edward begs her to stay a human and not turn into what he is for most of the first 3 books.

The point of “better” is resource acquisition and control. Being human does not give Bella the ability to acquire and control more resources. Human is not better than vampire. Vampire is demonstratively better than human.

jf12
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@Jeremy re: “most of us were raised with equalist beliefs, and the women in our lives told us that was what they wanted with their words”

I’m going to go another direction. The bulldozing of male spaces, of male opinions, of male feelings, continues.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/repairing-relationships/201412/are-mens-groups-threat-women

Feminism wants equalism with males about as much as Israelis want equalism with Palestinians.

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@ AlphaFemale
Which popular, female romance novel has these plot points.

A) Powerful Alpha Female
B) She has super powers, she might be a vampire or some other creature
C) She has fabulous wealth
D) She suffers from an unquenchable attraction to an average, plain male college student

That book doesn’t exist. Women aren’t attracted to equal or less. It’s always Self +1 to +10.

jf12
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re: Bella is better because she wants to be like Edward? And Edward is worse because he wants her to stay a human female?

jf12
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@zdr01dz, re: novel

Heh heh. How about the *unwilling* suspension of disbelief?

Jeremy
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@assholefemale ‘It does not, It directly acknowledges female sexual power and says, “No, I won’t share male power with you, you have power that you did not earn already.”’ This is good. This is more along the lines of what I’m used to regarding Red Pill philosophy. Please explain how women have not “earned” their power yet power granted to males based on their gender has been “earned” by them and they are somehow entitled to it solely based on being born male. The hypocrisy I’m sure will be enlightening. Female sexual power is not earned, it is gifted by… Read more »

zdr01dz
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@ jf12 Bella is better because she wants to be like Edward? And Edward is worse because he wants her to stay a human female? I quizzed my wife on this last night because she loves romance novels. A) Edward is superior to Bella in every important way. B) In 50 Shades Of Grey, Christian (who happens to be a billionaire) is superior to Ana in every important way. C) In every other romance novel it is the same. The male is superior to the female in every important way. The man is NEVER less intelligent than the woman in… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@M Simon God help us but I hope the liberules get their female President in the next round. It will inoculate us for a while. What really makes me sad is that the rabid, frothing at the mouth “WE MUST ELECT A WOMAN NOW!” set are hellbent on getting ANY woman in there regardless of her qualifications. There is, in fact, one woman I think might actually make a good presidential candidate right now as I’ve found myself agreeing with a lot of her opinions on financial reform and the like: Elizabeth Warren. But she’s not up for the big… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ Alfalfa

Mrs. Gamer may be a natural submissive that enjoys being treated this way. If you’ve used dread game on her, the likelihood that she has a low self esteem is through the roof.

Lol, no way in h311. Mrs. Gamer is as tough-minded a broad as you’re ever gonna find.

THis further supports my earlier assertion that low self esteem females are the ones that respond well to this.

You’re ridiculous, sugart1ts. smile

theasdgamer
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@ Jeremy

Hence male power, the power that modern feminist women like yourself whine constantly for a piece of, is EARNED through DEEDS.

Or demonstrated ability such as salesmanship–Game.

jf12
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@Rollo, re: new post w/ 6 points addressed in detail.

I’m Game. Even though I think those points, and the other points, were addressed in comments.

One different topic of potential interest is what Jeremy said about “When and how to reveal tumescence is about the grayest of the gray areas in human existence.”

teddj4g
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Rollo – go with it. I’ve found her comments entertaining, and she certainly got a lot of conversation going,

Besides, it will make a great weekend subject to toss around. I considered posting something at our “house” using her comments, but I saw that she was getting a great mental workout here and didn’t want to detract from it. Too fun to witness.

jf12
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re: unwilling suspension of disbelief

fyi 1984 concept, 3+3=5, etc.

Novaseeker
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Rollo —

A remedial primer may very well be in order — I’d vote for that.

redlight
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I would like the six points post today, and then the other one early next week

thedeti
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Rollo:

I vote for the red pill refresher/primer first. Then refuting the “AlphaFemale” entity’s 6-point comment later.

BTW, “AlphaFemale”, this whole femdom thing you’ve got going on and your qualifying yourself to the guys around here is actually kind of cute.

jf12
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sfcton makes a point on his blog, essentially that women’s shit tests are a result of their low self-esteem. I beg to differ; I think shit tests result from a woman’s high self esteem / high comfort level with a man. I think the reason he doesn’t get as many shit tests is because he doesn’t exactly exude comfort.

Short version: women treat familiar men poorly.

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@thedeti, re: ” your qualifying yourself to the guys around here”

Yeah. Hopefully she’s getting the message that the guys don’t prefer a woman who thinks she’s better/best, just like all the other women.

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re: “Just engage with the purpose of educating the uninitiated”

If I told you who my intended audience is for a lot of my comments, you wouldn’t believe me.

teddj4g
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I don’t think anyone here is trying to change her mind. Watching it go down, it appears to be a verbal “play fight” similar to how wrestling with the GF/Wife in the physical realm works, I’ve been genuinely amused in a “that’s so cute” kinda way.

And she still hasn’t figured out how she is repeatedly confirming much of what we discuss in the ‘sphere, which makes it all the more adorable.

theasdgamer
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@ jf12

If I told you who my intended audience is for a lot of my comments, you wouldn’t believe me.

Just speculating wildly–a men’s Bible study at your church?

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo Giving this chick anymore headspace is more than she has earned. She’s made it clear she’s probably with a pathetic beta to make herself feel like she’s everything feminist mouthpieces have told her she’s supposed to be. Certainly not because she feels adequate on her own, which kinda kills the whole “alpha” thing to me. She doesn’t listen to anything being said or read anything she’s asked to read. Not that she replaces them with some kind of rational logic based on reality; to the contrary she just stamps her little feet and insists that the same horse shit… Read more »

jf12
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re: contemporary culture’s portrayal of love etc.

Compare the male and female tendencies in this list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_Mainstream_Top_40_number-one_songs_of_2014

theasdgamer
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Rollo

I vote “yes” for:

1) primer/refresher

2) AF rebuttal

M Simon
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Sun Wukong
January 9th, 2015 at 10:58 am

IMO Sarah Palin is the best man for the job. I’ll have to look at Warren on economics, but generally I dismiss Ds on that subject because they in general don’t get how hard production is and their answer to every question is more government more taxes.

Once government goes over 50% of the economy decline sets it. With Federal, State, and Local we are right at that tipping point – on average. Which means some places are over it. Illinois fer instance.

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