In light of the Feminine Imperative having itself capsized over the UVa rape fantasy retracted by Rolling Stone this month, I was reminded of this video and post by Heartiste (Roissy) a few years ago:
Basically, the guy had a few friends follow him around the mall, one guy filming him and the other two guys (I can’t tell if any of his hired guns were women) acting as his “groupies” or entourage. He goes around identifying himself as “Thomas Elliot” when people, mostly women, ask him his name. Eventually, he begins to pile up admiring and gawking female attention, which only snowballs into more female attention. Apparently, not one of these starstruck chicks thought to question if Thomas Elliot was a real celebrity. That’s the power of preselection and fame; so powerful, it can disengage a woman’s neural logic circuitry.
Heartiste goes on to make the prerequisite Game principle & application observations here, but there is a much larger dynamic in play. While the mall makes for a good setting to test this experiment, it is fairly isolated. A security detail gets assigned to “Thomas Eliot” and even some shops close in order to avoid a crowd panic, but could this dynamic be proven on a larger scale?
This is a very interesting social experiment, particularly when compared to the now infamous (and staged) viral video of Shoshana Roberts walking around New York and enduring the attentions of men she found less than savory. Interesting because they’re essentially trolling for attention from the opposite sex with similar methods, and the results are telling about how each gender perspective generates and reacts to that attention.
Darryl Long made a comment on this topic, and I’ve been considering it for a while now:
On this topic of how women’s attraction changes across their lifetimes I don’t think any analysis is complete without looking at the phenomena of teen-idols. As a man who has sisters and daughters its clear that there is something biological going on with pubescent girls in a way that is radically different from boys. Boys may fantasize about a poster girl, but they never fall over themselves for heartthrobs like Bieber, or Lief Garret, and David Cassidy (in the old days). I’m amazed that many of these teen heartthrobs are more on the fair/effeminate side than masculine. They look like they have good genes, but the most important thing is that all the other girls like them. They are male figures that girls lend incredible status making them even more attractive.
Preselection is a very powerful motivator of women’s hypergamous decision making process. Even the perception of fame (or even the potential for it) is a prime motivator and incentive to lock down a man who presents the hypergamous optimal ideal – a guy who satisfies the sexiness her Alpha Fucks hypergamous needs require and the long term security of provisioning potential from status-confirmed Beta Bucks.
Whether this “famous” guy actually embodies this ideal is irrelevant to a woman’s Id-centric psyche. When women are younger, tweens and teens, this self-convincing is much easier since girls lack any real world experience to reference with respect to what the guy really represents. A capacity for abstract thinking is something that develops as we mature, but the desire to optimize hypergamy is a limbic, instinctual drive for girls and no amount of reasoning can compete with the fantasy of a pre-fabricated idealized Hypergamy.
They want to believe it.
Thus we have hordes of girls and young women willing to go to behavioral lengths they would never consider with the mundane men they’re familiar with in order to just brush with the possibility of that hypergamous ideal. They will literally climb over one another to realize this.
In a Game sense, preselection (and prequalification or 3rd party endorsement) is a very powerful, instinctual impetus for women. Even in marginal, isolated social settings preselection is an overriding imperative:
Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. – Roissy
Once you have a basic understanding of the preselection dynamic and how it is an evolved feature of women’s psychological firmware, the next step is to understand how the power of preselection influences women (and by association men) when scaled to a feminine social dynamic.
Roissy notes from the first video:
Apparently, not one of these starstruck chicks thought to question if Thomas Elliot was a real celebrity.
As I’ve noted in prior posts, perceptions are the overriding imperative of the feminine psyche. It’s not that women on an individual level don’t possess the faculties to discern legitimate social proof, it’s that on a social level they want to believe in that social proof. The estimation of the collective feminine mindset is a powerful influence on the individual woman since it plays on that non-abstract, instinctual need for a pre-verification of optimal hypergamy.
In other words, the effort of sexual-selection vetting has already been done for them by the feminine hivemind.
Verifying legitimate social proof takes individual time and effort. Perhaps not as much as men have a rational capacity for (the New York stunt fooled more than a few tag-along guys affirming the pseudo-social proof), but for women that opportunity for meeting a hypergamously ideal man supersedes the mental efforts needed to verify social proof. The greater mass of women already believe in the preselection and the intersexual competition is on and overt.
I’ve made the distinction before with regards to women’s preferred communications methods; covert communication being women’s native language, but when women resort to overt communications it’s generally because the content of the information needing to be transferred outweighs the need for how it’s delivered, or the context of that information.
Transferring information about a man’s preselected approval amongst a collective of women is one such override. However, it’s very important for men living in a feminine-primary social order to understand that social proof is not just limited to preselection of men as potential partners.
This social proof dynamic extends to the perceptions of women in a collective peer group, as well as men for whom they have no sexual interest in, but serve their material interests nonetheless.
The current cultural atmosphere of male suspicion and autonomous rape-threat assessment of men is another variation of this perceptual, hysterical, collective belief dynamic. Women want to believe in the presumption that every man outside of their preselected, collective approved, hypergamous ideal is a potential rape threat. In other words, a man who might, by force or coercion, assume control of her hypergamous sexual selection.
The narrative, the perception, is all that matters.
And like the women who never had an afterthought as to whether “Thomas Eliot” was the real deal, likewise women become so ego-invested in the certainty of their collective perceptions that, even in light of contrary evidence, the only acknowledged verification of that perception is how it makes them feel.
This contradiction of a collective feminine hysteria is what many luminaries of the Feminine Imperative are now being forced to confront. It’s important to remember during this UVa / Rolling Stone rape debacle that women, and more than a few enabling male sympathizers, wanted to believe this travesty was true in spite of the vaudevillian outlandishments and still refuse to accept that it isn’t.
From Truth to Power:
Denial
The first step to really unplugging from our preconditioning (i.e the feminine Matrix) is recognizing that this conditioning has led to the beliefs we think are integral to our personalities. The psychological term for this is called ‘ego-investment’. When a person internalizes a mental schema so thoroughly, and has become conditioned to it for so long, it becomes an integral part of their personality. So to attack the belief is to, literally, attack the person. This is why we see such a violent reaction to people’s political, religious, inter-social/inter-sexual, inter-gender, etc. expressions of belief – they perceive it as a personal attack, even when presented with irrefutable, empirical evidence that challenges the veracity of those beliefs.
People resort to denial when recognizing that the truth would destroy something they hold dear. In the case of a cheating partner, denial lets you avoid acknowledging evidence of your own humiliation. Short of catching a spouse in bed with your best friend, evidence of infidelity is usually ambiguous. It’s motivated skepticism. You’re more skeptical of things you don’t want to believe and demand a higher level of proof. Denial is unconscious, or it wouldn’t work: if you know you’re closing your eyes to the truth, some part of you knows what the truth is and denial can’t perform its protective function.
One thing we all struggle to protect is a positive self-image. The more important the aspect of your self-image that’s challenged by the truth, the more likely you are to go into denial. If you have a strong sense of self-worth and competence, your self-image can take hits but remain largely intact; if you’re beset by self-doubt, however, any acknowledgment of failure can be devastating and any admission of error painful to the point of being unthinkable. Self-justification and denial arise from the dissonance between believing you’re competent, and making a mistake, which clashes with that image. Solution: deny the mistake. Attribute it to an outside element rather than resort to introspection.
This degree of core-level denial is where the likes of Jessica Valenti, Susan Walsh and Zerlina Maxwell find themselves today.
“No matter what Jackie said, we should automatically believe rape claims.” http://t.co/3HFlXR7jme True insanity pic.twitter.com/AFXIyn32FS
— Roosh (@rooshv) December 6, 2014
In spite of still growing confirmation that the story was a hoax, femosphere bloggers hold out hope against hope that even the smallest part of a medieval-like rape story to rival Silence of the Lambs could be true.
The pivot for this will of course be how the falsehood injures women who genuinely are rape victims, but this is just the shiny keys jingling to distract anyone sympathetic to their ego-investments from the fact that they wanted to believe this story was legitimate.
They wanted to believe it without an afterthought of critical analysis.
They wanted to believe it in spite of the obvious melodramatic dialogue described by “Jackie”.
They wanted to believe a naive freshmen girl could be frat boy initiation raped for three hours on the shards of glass from a broken glass table and never seek medical treatment or have anyone raise an eyebrow over the bloody mess that her back must’ve looked like as she nonchalantly walked out of the party house.
They wanted and still hope that even the most marginal parts of the story might be true. They want any shred of hope that will distract from the fact that they must now confront their complete acceptance of this obvious farce without any compunction of critical thinking.
They all have to face the fact that their presumption of male guilt comes before any logic or reason. This is the uniquely feminine hysteria that even men will invest themselves into if it means they can more positively identify with the Feminine Imperative.
[…] Hysteria […]
“They wanted to believe it without an afterthought of critical analysis.”
can it be said that women don’t want to do critical analysis in general?
Before Game it used to be said that the easiest way to get a girlfriend is to already have one. Chicks also go for guys pushing a stroller with a baby in it. Too bad my kids are all in their 20s.
They wanted to believe that “street harassment” was real. They wanted to believe a “drunk” girl wandering around Hollywood Boulevard in broad daylight, in a sundress and high heels, carrying a paper bag-wrapped bottle and stumbling around like a Skid Row wino, and getting hit on and assaulted by men who wanted to rape her, was true and real and happens all the time. They wanted to believe a naive freshman was gangraped and beaten for 3 hours on the shards of a shattered glass table, and that afterwards not a single person noticed as she escaped, bloody and beaten… Read more »
“Chicks also go for guys pushing a stroller with a baby in it.”
Nope. That’s a myth. Only women seeking beta bucks like such men. Moreover, that’s all about desirability, not attraction/arousal.
@deti
Disagree mostly, a baby in stroller is excellent bait. It’s an instant opener, but nothing more. Since most guys are Betas it will signal BB. However, given the nature of women a decent looking guy pushing a stroller *might* be an Alpha with a soft side. Women are like cats when it coes to curiosity.
I know this from experience. Our fraternity’s resident advisor and his wife had a two year old son. We used him as bait frequently. Had more us (especially me) had any game to go with the bait…well…
Just look at the Twitter feeds of the Femiratti writing about this and you’ll get a sense of just how pervasive this ego investment has become. They express their “disappointment” that it’s NOT true. And they do so with no irony or shame. Truly mind boggling. My gut tells me that Bill Cosby is caught up in this female-induced mass hysteria now as well. Mass female hysteria through history is really interesting as well. This is fascinating: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480686/ As is this… An account of collective hysteria causing illness in over 600 girls in Mexico. http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/collective-hysteria.htm Bottom line: Wouldn’t be surprised… Read more »
Now a hoax is said to still have a point about showing how something that was a lie is indeed a fact to show how widespread that fact is. So a false claim is twisted to support, and seems like is said to be necessary, for the rapes that do happen. Regarding pop stars. Seems that the effeminate type pop stars that the girls go crazy for don’t carry over to the the guys they crush on in their own neighborhoods. They don’t go for a guy who might grow a beard before anyone else, but they don’t really prefer… Read more »
It’s not that they WANT to believe these things, Rollo. It’s that they automatically absorb external messages, particularly from individuals or groups with whom they want to associate or be accepted by. This is the nature of extroverted feeling (Fe). In the same way Fe-dominant girls absorb messages from their teachers to sit still in school and learn their lessons, in the same way they internalize what Barbie dolls and fashion models look like and grow to hate their own bodies and develop neuroses – so they internalize the messages of feminism. Truth and logic don’t matter to the Fe-Dom.… Read more »
Disagree mostly, a baby in stroller is excellent bait. It’s an instant opener, but nothing more. Since most guys are Betas it will signal BB. However, given the nature of women a decent looking guy pushing a stroller *might* be an Alpha with a soft side. Women are like cats when it coes to curiosity.
That’s just saying that anything can be used as an opener/bait, and the more incongruous while maintaining frame (Contrast is King), the better.
A well-trained dog is even better, since it automatically implies both leading (dominance) and looking out for one’s pack.
I know that when my pre-selection was high I’ve never experienced so much female attention. It’s how I bagged my ex wife. An Olympic athlete and nearly a ten. Losing that pre-selection over time was a massive blow to my SMV and I’ve read her forum posts over the years to see it. Women get their value from men and a man that other women desire is such a high value to the perception of women. And to women it’s only perception that matters. I was objectively still the same person after I stopped my dangerous hobby but the perception… Read more »
I agree BC. My highly trained dog is one of my best openers. On a deep level I believe that women envy the control I have over my dog.
I was an engineer at an obscure LA radio station a long time ago. I just played recorded tapes (middle of the road – blech) no on the air presence. And – very hard to believe – I had a groupie. Lots of phone calls. She was lonely and I was up for talk. Not much else to do. I played tapes unless something went wrong. She brought her GF to the golf course outside the station to have a guardian while she gave me a BJ. The GF was a 5 or 6. She was a 3 – at… Read more »
In the UK there has been what seems to be hysteria over celebrity sexual assault, after the Jimmy Savile scandal, for example:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/william-roache-coronation-street-star-found-not-guilty-of-all-sexual-abuse-charges-9111654.html
I once escorted my younger sister to a boy band concert. It was not really a concert, it was a girl screaming contest. It was pure hysteria
This feminism shit really pisses me off, seriously. All this “Rape Culture” stuff is so retarded. Just the fact that they made up some stupid shit like this now in this day and age is mind boggling. There never used to be a “Rape Culture”. I just got done reading woh khavi’s post “Why The World Would Not Be A Better Place If Women Ruled” and “To ask the questions is to answer them. Feminist fruitcake Jessica Valenti actually goes as far as to insinuate that in matters of sexual assault, men must be treated as guilty until proven innocent.… Read more »
Hysteria used to be a recognized medical condition, and the cure was manual stimulation to orgasm. That is the origin of the vibrator, if I remember correctly. The cure for hysteria is a good pounding out. How much of this rape culture meme us a cry for help?
The Shadowed Knight
thedeti December 8th, 2014 at 6:45 pm Well it worked for me. But I did turn down the one time I got solid lets fuck vibes. The timing was inconvenient. I don’t think, even pushing a stroller, any woman would mistake me for a beta. And I often got a LOT of attention from that baby/stroller. You know the female ideal (so the first mate tells me). An alpha who can do beta. I never quite match up to her beta ideal. But I wouldn’t want to . It would kill the romance. I still make her tingle 40 years… Read more »
necorochi
December 8th, 2014 at 8:00 pm
Reduce the size and power of government will be a start. Don’t attack women directly.
One could say, the “Hysteria” of pre-selection applies to men as well. Not necessarily in terms of being more attracted to a woman, but in terms of believing the PUAs who approach and make it seem like they are actually picking women up. For instance, very recently has Tom Torero (a big guru in the Day Game area) been exposed for using actresses in his day game “pick-up” videos. Just have a look see: http://www.cindy-brace.com/fiche.cfm?id=160809 “PUBLICITES / COMMERCIALS: DAYGAME.COM de Tom Ralis. Rôle: Sarah. DAYGAME.COM de Tome Ralis. Rôle: Georgina.” The “daygame” company used her twice for “publicities.” Here’s one… Read more »
@jaded,
When PUA culture reaches the point of jailing women for even thinking about not complying with men’s advances to the degree of rape culture hysteria, then we can talk.
To my knowledge young men aren’t crying and fainting in mass throngs at Nick Krauser book signings.
Unrelated: I want to start a redpill blog for Christian women called “Crumbs from the Master’s Table.”
Why do girls scream at pop/movie stars? Easy answer. That’s the system evolution developed that allows women to stand out in a crowd. What they are really saying is, “LOOK AT ME! NOTICE ME!”
Few years back I did a similar thing with a couple of mates as a 35th birthday present for our friend. The birds are usually pretty keen on him already so it didn’t take much. A powder blue tuxedo jacket and ridiculous sunglasses were enough. Me and my 6’4″ inside-linebacker built friend simply bookended him wherever we went. Our muted dark jackets and naturally stern faces played perfectly into our assumed role as his personal “security”. We had the entire Guinness brewery bar singing him happy birthday and buying rounds, posing for pictures, chatting us up. We then cock-blocked a… Read more »
Hysteria as a medical condition. Exactly… The Greek origin of the word referred to a disorder of the uterus which required stimulation to orgasm. Run that through the SJW filter… Fat, unsightly, multi-hued haired feminists who haven’t had a good pounding in ages and what do you get? Rape hysteria. Don’t discount the wisdom of the ancients.
Re: “No matter what Jackie said, we should generally believe rape claims”
“The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.”
H. L. Mencken
If we want to live in a free country, “guilty until proven innocent” MUST remain the law of the land, regardless of the crime. Suggesting otherwise should be branded as sedition and treated appropriately.
Is the only thing we can do about “Rape Culture” is just wait patiently until people get unplugged, it seems like for every guy that gets awakened 3 feminist also see this shit and by the time we have enough men to fight feminism will have already censored some major shit.
Not trying to sound like a subordinate(I’m working on it) but while I’m here I will and would go to battle for any of you guys, just tell me what I need to do. #Manosphere
Thomas Eliot = Hush. Only a select few know what that means.
Synopsis: Comedy, genius nerd sets up phony reality dating show. Girls that would have shunned him suddenly want to have his baby.
I once hard fell for a woman who pulled a similar trick. Marginally pretty, but she was always surrounded by people and teased men with an engaged half-interest. I later discovered that she was cheating on me with a semi-famous Indie musician. Although he obviously didn’t wife her, they were together for the greater part of three years. she settled down with a lawyer-turned-politician. Last I heard, they’re still married. In retrospect I’m glad it didn’t work out, although I have a hard time understanding what made her so fatally charming.
And in case the B-movie horror story script of the ‘bed of glass’ rape wasn’t enough to convince any rational person Jackie is a hoax…
http://gotnews.com/breaking-fraud-jackiecoakley-cried-rape-uvahoax/
@Rollo: “When PUA culture reaches the point of jailing women for even thinking about not complying with men’s advances to the degree of rape culture hysteria, then we can talk.” When PUA culture disingenuously promotes products to unsuspecting men, then we should talk. Oh wait, that’s currently what we’re seeing but something tells me you won’t discuss this. After reading your material for quite some time, I can tell you’re not after the complete truth, Rollo. You’re simply fulfilling your own narrative much like the very feminists you and the whole manosphere is against. I must admit, the irony here… Read more »
Well, I’ll be sure to ask Nick about how his initiative to overturn Yes means Yes is going next time we talk. Until then be sure to tell the guys on
PUAHate,..ehr… SLUTHate they’re still grasping for straws.@jaded
“but something tells me you won’t discuss this.”
Seeing as it’s his blog and you’re just here with an axe to grind (no matter how unrelated it is to the topic at hand) I don’t see why he’s obligated to. Not quite sure why you’re expecting him to answer for what you perceive as misbehavior on the part of other people anyway. It’s rather daft.
“Is the only thing we can do about Rape Culture is just wait patiently until people get unplugged”? In the old days, these almost exclusively female-induced hysterias would burn themselves out eventually (although sometimes not without leaving major carnage in their wake). Mass hysterias started by women (from Wikipedia)… Dancing Plague of 1518 – Started when Frau Troffea began dancing erratically in the streets. A month later 400 people were dancing in the streets and many died from heart attacks. Salem Witch Trials of 1692 – Four teen girls began to have fits that were described by a minister as… Read more »
But Thoroughbred, all of those historic instance and all of the recent socially impacting legislation that’s the result of a feminine created rape-culture hysteria pales,…pales I say, in comparison to the damage of hysteria incited by PUAs.
Why, the Rolling Stone has failed the public interest! Who they really should be investigating are the likes of Nick Krauser and RooshV!
/sarcasm
Women are as dumb as dog shit.
“Until then be sure to tell the guys on PUAHate,..ehr… SLUTHate they’re still grasping for straws.”
It’s interesting to know that you check up on them. They do have a lot of interesting things to say that the PUA community won’t, eh? I suppose when you’re popular in the manosphere, it’s ok to deny harsh truths that don’t fulfill your narrative. I mean, your readership won’t exactly welcome such a thing anyway.
But keep blogging away Susan..ehr, I mean Rollo. heh.
“One thing we all struggle to protect is a positive self-image. The more important the aspect of your self-image that’s challenged by the truth, the more likely you are to go into denial. If you have a strong sense of self-worth and competence, your self-image can take hits but remain largely intact; if you’re beset by self-doubt, however, any acknowledgment of failure can be devastating and any admission of error painful to the point of being unthinkable. Self-justification and denial arise from the dissonance between believing you’re competent, and making a mistake, which clashes with that image. Solution: deny the… Read more »
…And like the women who never had an afterthought as to whether “Thomas Eliot” was the real deal, likewise women become so ego-invested in the certainty of their collective perceptions that, even in light of contrary evidence, the only acknowledged verification of that perception is how it makes them feel. This also works the other way. Roger Elliott likely experienced women who were ego invested in believing, despite any contrary evidence, that Roger was a loser who could never be worthy of them. I tend to believe that men are vaguely aware of this sort of “pricing out” by various… Read more »
And you Rollo. You’re most certainly on the ninnies shit list by now. Giggles is gunning for you big time.
Incidentally, If Rational Males (TM) start digging into the Cosby rape hysteria with the same focused fury as they did with RS and Lena Dunderhead, my prediction is that it too will blow away like ashes in the wind.
@Thoroughbred, actually Susan’s not have a very good month with her facts. She’s lamely trying to poke at Dalrock’s last 3 posts, but her “data’ was debunked before she pressed the ‘publish’ button.
Ironic, since all her “hard data” jumping to Team Woman conclusions has come back to bite her on the ass this month and show her as the fraud she is. Jaded is just J2.0 from HUS trying to wring her hands over here because Dal wont bother with Giggles’ disproven junk data.
re: “The narrative, the perception, is all that matters.”
Yes, that, and the truthiness.
re: orgasms.
It’s been my long and considerable experience that a woman is a lot more lovey dovey when she *hasn’t* had her orgasm yet, and she is a lot more, eh, prone to off-putting hysteria etc the day *after* she has had quite enough orgasming to last her a while.
re: women wanting to believe the worst about men.
It’s just part of the apex fallacy; in essence, women are telling men how women *want* them to behave, i.e. like bad boys.
re: “a solution to their sexual problems.”
You say that as if that were a bad thing.
Re: Cosby. There is ample evidence that Cosby had sex with many women. Even without that evidence, he was a famous comedian on tour. That’s only barely less pre-selected than a famous musician on tour. I have no doubt that sexual contact with some of these women was reality for Cosby. I also have no doubt, that the only thing for these women to gain at this point, long after any legal proceeding can happen to clear Cosby’s name, is attention and money. It’s almost like a woman designed it that way. Just claim an event happened long in the… Read more »
re: Jackie a double-dipping fraud.
I actually don’t think she thinks she’s lying. I think she believes her *role* is to *portray* a victim, in order to better support some other woman or women she believes are real victims. Ironically, other women believed that she was a real victim … This is in accord with Rollo’s thesis that perception, or rather being perceived, is all that matters to women.
Kanazawa is the preeminent redpill researcher out there, he has been pilloried to kingdom come and kicked off every site he wrote for (most notably Psychology Today) because of his redpill research. Here’s an exert from a response to a critic. “When it comes to intersexual selection, the law states that the sex that invests less into the offspring is sexually more aggressive, and the sex that invests more is sexually more choosy and coy (Trivers 1972). This means that, among most mammalian species (including all primates), the female is more choosy than the male, and thus sex and mating… Read more »
@ Johnycomelately
Bingo
@johny “As Whisky used to say, “Women hate hate hate betas.” And sex with a low value man is akin to rape.” The irony in this is how absolutely aghast women are when a man openly displays a “no fat chicks” policy. We don’t cry rape if we drunkenly fucked a fat chick that managed to fool us with the ugly lights and beer goggles. We just get razzed by the guys, punch each other a few times, then laugh it off. The female analog to the same exact situation is “RAPE!” rape 1. the unlawful compelling of a person… Read more »
“They all have to face the fact that their presumption of male guilt comes before any logic or reason. ” They aren’t logical to begin with so why would they have to analyze.. oohh look at that big cat! OMG Roosh is such an ass for insulting me. Logic isn’t a feminist attribute.
Rational Male is more or less, for better or for worse, my home court. This comment is both on thread and off. I got something to say and I come here on my home court to say it. I think it bears reading. Today Roosh posted an article about Julian from RSD. And in the article he basically threw Julian under the bus. I see that as a mistake for this community. I say that we as a community should vigorously defend Julian and RSD and not desert them. Much the same hysteria got going around Julian as around these… Read more »
re: Women, fear, and hysteria I see this as another problem of a maladaptive psyche which seems to be fairly common feature in women. Given the natural tendency toward fear, and anxiety we get hypergamy, we also get hysteria, and the jumping at shadows cowing before imaginary bogeymen that can only come from a mind that favors feelz over reason. This is why women can’t be content, can’t be made happy, and ultimately can’t be trusted. As an evolutionary defense this all makes sense in an environment where the daily risks of life were often lethal. A healthy fear, and emotional… Read more »
I must admit this scares me. Nut for myself, but I have 4 boys, the oldest turned 17 a few months ago, the second one becomes 13 next month. I’ve introduced my eldest to game, I bought him the book of Mystery, primarily because I feel it is something I could have used very well when I was his age. But I mean, really, I don’t want him subject to some false rape claim. What the hell do I tell him? He is aware of this as well, as he reads the news too. I think they are in for… Read more »
The PUAHATE guys need a new website – they likely already have found one, where they try to expose every PUA who is not tall and has model-looks as a fraud. Since they are banned quickly at ROK or the RooshVForum, they come over here to preach their idiotic theories, which have no basis in reality whatsoever.
I get where both Mark Minter and Roosh are coming from. I’m wary of what the MSM showed, and, I admit I haven’t watched many of RSD’s videos to make a full evaluation, but can we (of the manosphere) really collectively & vigorously defend RSD’s methods even if there are obvious (to me) ‘Commercial Game’ floors? I live in Australia (very much a knee-jerk nanny state) and I do recall the recent RSD hysteria and swift action to deny his work vias entry. Politicians here are media / vote whores and will fold under ANY sort of pressure. Mark is… Read more »
Feminist Rape Culture is the female ego defensive idea that, for every woman, no matter how unappealing they might be, all men on some level desire her, to the point of her fantasizing that all men could loose control and act violently against their natural male protective instinct, societal conditioning, and legal penalty threat to “have” her (she’s THAT important). The affected woman can enter into every situation/ transaction throughout her every day assuring herself of her own desirability even though most likely she’s not even noticed or wanted (she’s truly insignificant and unimportant). It’s over compensation for basic female… Read more »
Malatan, in regard to advising one’s sons, I took mine to college and told him as we were getting enrolled that 4-5 boys a year from his class (turns out I underestimated) will be falsely accused and have their lives broken. Therefore, I suggested, three things: a) no first time sex when drinking; b) nothing good happens after midnight, and first-time sex is better practiced in daylight; c) I wasn’t going to be of much help to him if he got arrested after 10 p.m. I know he wasn’t prepared for this conversation, at all. (His mother raised him to… Read more »
Minor note on preselection: When I was first climbing the red pill learning curve a couple of years ago, I was dating a woman who lived in NW DC. I would generally hit the bricks around 6:30 a.m. or 7, still dressed for the night before (obviously not dressed for a DC office) and shoot down the hill before stopping for coffee at a Starbucks. This is the sort of Starbucks where fried and frazzled SIWs stop and grab their overpriced coffee before rushing off to their law offices and the Hill and their NGOs. I really liked my girlfriend… Read more »
@boomerick I’m inclined to agree. Female ego is why “creep” and its variants have come to me “interested male I find unattractive”. It’s so the princess can feel like she’s so popular with boys that she has to fight them all off while waiting for her prince. The funny thing with rape though is that I’ve always heard it’s usually about power from the rapist perspective, not sexual attraction. Now that it’s about the female ego, rape seems to be about sexual attraction 100% of the time Of all the wedges feminism has tried to drive between men and women… Read more »
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/12/why-we-believed-jackies-story-113365.html#.VIcfIDHF_jg “What does it say that we read an article in which an 18-year-old girl was pinned down, graphically violated by multiple people in a house we pass almost every day — and we thought, “That just may be right?” “Ultimately, though, from where I sit in Charlottesville, to let fact checking define the narrative would be a huge mistake. “These events undoubtedly do occur here,” first-year Maddie Rita told me. “And while this report has clearly had factual flaws as well as rhetorical missteps, there are plenty of other fully corroborated accounts not only at this university, but at… Read more »
@Matatan wrote
> I don’t want him subject to some
> false rape claim. What the hell do
> I tell him?
Mike Cernovich is a manosphere blogger who both happens to be a lawyer, and who survived a false rape accusation (sort of) when he was a student.
He’s published a great article on how guys can protect themselves:
http://www.dangerandplay.com/2011/09/21/how-to-avoid-a-false-rape-case/
and he’s put out a podcast in which he interviews a lawyer who represents false accusation cases:
http://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/06/08/avoid-false-rape-accusation/
Concrete info on what guys can do to protect themselves in these.
[…] Comment from Johnycomelately at Rollo’s blog […]
@Johnnycomelately: “The hysteria isn’t about genuine rape but the innate fear of having sex with low value men, the prevalence of ‘game’ simply adds to the hysteria.” This is a pro comment. And it makes perfect sense in the context of hypergamy and evo-psych. Women’s eggs are limited and thus valuable. In the past, women made a tradeoff between high value alphas and provisioning betas. Today’s rampantly hypergamous women no longer make such a tradeoff because the provisioning side of a woman’s hypergamy is no longer as important — societally they’ve been conditioned to believe that they can always provision… Read more »
@Atticus: “The question is why? The answer is “Drama”. This insane need to feel something, anything, drives women to make the most twisted leaps of illogic.” Another pro-comment. This also explains women’s completely illogical attraction to weird spirituality, astrology, palm reading, gossip rags like the National Enquirer, and the like. I know a woman who spends hours online each day perusing the gossip sites on the Internet. She insists that all of the celebrity gossip is true. The most ridiculous nonsense that you could imagine. It’s hopeless trying to explain to her that it’s made up (often by Hollywood agents,… Read more »
@minter we are sitting in the trenches, trying to hold the line, when one of us decides to climb out and run by himself across no man’s land.. After about 200 yards he is shot, wounded. Do we send the rest of the platoon out to rescue him? No, because he didn’t act for the unit, instead he acted foolishly on his own. We are a community, which means when you ignore the community it can ignore you when it is bad to do so. Certainly Roosh is wrong to be sniping at the bleeding Julien. However it would not… Read more »
@josh, are you sure that’s Justin Bieber?
I could swear it was Nick Krauser at his latest book release.
I’ve been thinking about these false accusations for a while now and I must admit that for young men and soon every man out there there won’t be a reasonable solution to this. These days the accusations result in a witch hunt where no defense is allowed for college men. And it will expand to the whole society rather sooner than later. Until sanity amongst the judiciary returns you can’t escape. But sanity will involve that female witnesses can’t be trusted anymore, so the legal system has to get changed in some ways. It may well be that women use… Read more »
@Minter, as I’ve stated before, on an issue by issue basis I can get behind most of the MRM. I’m not sure how effectual they really are, and I think their insistency on allowing women to fight their battles for them belies a want to identify with the feminine for their intimate acceptance, but I get the point of the moment overall. That said, I will never fully endorse the MRM because their core ideology is one that’s still based on the idealistic hope that an egalitarian equalism can ever be possible between men and women. In my estimation the… Read more »
@Tom
Thx for the link man, some useful advice in there
@rollo
You don’t need Bieber if you have the Bieber fans. Not so much with Krauser.
I did this as at a hotel in western Ireland. Put on some shades, wrapped some sheepskin around my neck and got a few cut Bros to escort me around looking tough. Girls were screaming trying to touch me and the hotel staff went nuts with all the nose complaints trying to figure out what was going on.
+1 each to johnnycomelately, boomerick, and atticus
Hysteria = collective fantasy. Gaslighting/projection writ large.
Half the Western World is going Cluster B.
———————————
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19085605
“62% of women have had a rape fantasy”
———————————
http://queensjournal.ca/story/2009-02-09/features/arousing-questions-about-female-sexuality/
“It’s desire emerging from this wanting to be wanted by somebody else, and I think, opening yourself up to the possibility of that process.”
——————————–
By every metric, men’s sperm counts and testosterone levels have been on the wane for decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#mediaviewer/File:Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg
lol, no.
Karen, god bless her, is the only woman on the internet who I might say, “gets it”. That said, she’s still not a man, and expecting her to speak for men is just plain foolish. Dean frankly strikes me as a blowhard.
This is a great topic and a great post. I’ll just drop a short comment here.. whenever I’ve gotten into discussions with groups, or women about men and women being completely different, etc.. I simply ask: when have you ever sen men piss themselves over a famous female, the way women did for the beetles, or elvis or tom jones? I usually get sheepish grin and embarassed laughs. Women know that this behavior reveals something about thier basic natures.. something they learn to cover up and control, but something still there, driving them forward. Interestingly, in all my years –… Read more »
Jeremy : “Truth and logic don’t matter to the Fe-Dom. Only majority opinion. If the majority say that Thomas Elliot is a celebrity, that’s good enough. If a man is surrounded by attractive women (social proof) he must be attractive. “ Which reminds me. Women simply don’t care what a man does, can do or can do well. It’s incomprehensible to them, his profession just a label. The swarm of hangers-on is the whole substance of the matter, that’s what really counts. So even a celebrated murderer or thief is sought out and adulated. The “celebrity” bit is the only… Read more »
“Thus we have hordes of girls and young women willing to go to behavioral lengths they would never consider with the mundane men they’re familiar with in order to just brush with the possibility of that hypergamous ideal. They will literally climb over one another to realize this.” This is definitely true. Just watch the Beatles movie A Hard Day’s Night.
I’ve read all the comments above and Johnycomelately @ 11:58pm gets right at the heart of the matter: “The hysteria isn’t about genuine rape but the innate fear of having sex with low value men, the prevalence of ‘game’ simply adds to the hysteria.” All this talk about hysteria has its foundation in bio-evo (as with everything, really). Reading bio-evo studies and other bloggers on the matter has given me the impression that the Female Imperative is an honest one. Now, before anyone here accuses me of blasphemy, let me explain. (side note: I’m still trying to formulate this theory… Read more »
The biological imperative is broken. The invention of reliable birth control has removed the only real obstacle to open unrestricted hypergamy. Since women want the best men, and men want more women there exists an impasse which was previously mitigated by sex=babies. Women had to settle for lesser men and men had chose one woman. But with sex=/=babies the system defaults to the FI. The only question now is striking a balance where we determine acceptable amounts of rape, regret rape, prostitution, and diminished male economic activity that are the price of open hypergamy. Or we allow for new form… Read more »
“young women (the only ones who really matter for reproduction) will only select the top 15%-20% of men at any given time” one has to be careful with this. Only 17% of women 25 and over have never been married, and about a quarter of these who are 25-34 are living with a partner. Likewise 23% of men 25 and over have never been married, and about a quarter of these who are 25-34 are living with a partner. This means that it is not 15-20% of men being fucked, but at least 83% of men 25 and over have… Read more »
@ redlight Yeah man, incels like me are a minority. I think there’s a big difference with getting ZERO SEX AT ALL over a period of YEARS vs. getting some, and having issues keeping girls if you’re kind of a mangina. All of the guys I know are currently getting laid and have gotten laid plenty of times in the past. Even though they’re having relationship problems and a lot of other issues, they just take the sex and touch/human contact for granted. All of them. This stuff is definitely true, and the culture has changed. The FI is real,… Read more »
I really recommend the following article. http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-09/you-cant-just-accuse-people-of-rape It finally explains why there is such a hysteria about rape especially on college campuses. According to the Nation Crime Victimization Survey (Federal Survey) – http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245 ” the nationally representative sample conducted by the federal government to find rates of reported and unreported crime. For the years 1995 to 2011, as the University of Colorado Denver’s Rennison explained to me, it found that an estimated 0.8 percent of noncollege females age 18-24 revealed that they were victims of threatened, attempted, or completed rape/sexual assault. Of the college females that age during that same… Read more »
Ang Aamer – “THEY NEED this to be a BIGGER issue than it really is… Thus the false stories.
It’s all about moving the goal posts to further Male Beta-ization.”
It’s a form gas lighting. Convince mostly harmless unwanted men they are the threat and hope they are persuaded to quit the SMP while still remaining economically productive.
Rape culture/hysteria is the current price for complete unhindered female sexual freedom. This the FI’s current solution to both have cake and eat cake.
I’ve lurked on these forums for a long time. And the wisdom has really helped me. Here’s a novel I recently saw on Amazon that seems to capture what is currently happening in our society. It’s set in a world where all males citizens have to accept treatment or be put to sleep. Here’s the link
Imagine a world where men are required to accept treatment to remain in society. This is the world of Hyperpolis, a novel that is quite pertinent to the the current state of affairs.
http://www.amazon.com/Hyperpolis-Tank-Pinou-ebook/dp/B00QPOK01Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418172635&sr=8-1&keywords=hyperpolis
The rape hysteria also has a deeper motive, equalitarianism (high taxes and social distribution) has changed the economic ecology and altered the incentives for female bonding patterns. Several economists and anthropologists contend that society is transitioning from monogamy to serial monogamy (serial polygyny). For serial polygyny to be facilitated women require absolutely unfettered, unrestricted, unconditional, uncommitted, unrestrained, unmoralizing, independent and completely free and unqualified safe access to sexual free choice. Unbounded by contracts, agreements, social norms, moral restraints, religious injunctions, social ties, aesthetic norms, maternal obligations, infanticide (abortion), selling progeny (adoption) and economic restrictions. Anything that is deemed as restrictive… Read more »
The most interesting part to me is: why would “Jackie” come up with such an implausible story? Is she especially slow witted? I have a suspicion that this is a mentally unbalanced girl who actually believes this happened to her. Much like the false memory fad of the 1980s(?). You know, where people, with the proper prodding, “remembered” being forced to take part in satanic orgies in kindergarten.
Mark Minter, you’re a great writer. Reading through Rollo’s old posts, I always looked forward to reading your comments. Then you stopped commenting. Glad to see you back.
If we gave feminists every single thing they hysterically demanded tomorrow, I betcha they’d be back with a new set of demands the next day.
@Rollo Definetly not, If you Nick and Roosh led some sort of political figure fighting for men I would definitely jump over the trenches with and follow into “battle”.
It’s bullshit man and shit is literally hitting the fan as we speak.
@badpainter The only question now is striking a balance where we determine acceptable amounts of rape, regret rape, prostitution, and diminished male economic activity that are the price of open hypergamy. Sounds like you are at the bargaining phase of the Kubler Ross five stages grief. There is not going to be any collective or individual decision making going on. What’s going to happen is what’s going to happen, and neither you nor anyone here will have any meaningful influence upon it, outside of keeping his own women in his personal sphere of life interested and (temporarily) in control. It’s… Read more »
In addition as we can see by some examples above, women are somewhat flawed in selection, such as: “Me and my 6’4″ inside-linebacker built friend simply bookended him wherever we went. Our muted dark jackets and naturally stern faces played perfectly into our assumed role as his personal ‘security’.” Notice the 6’4 linebacker is ignored. This is another example of how the idea that physically attractive+socially dominant=alpha, all else=beta is so simplistic as to be wrong. Wrong and defeatist. A guy can play to his strengths, and build up and strengthen his weaknesses. A guy does NOT have to be… Read more »
@Softek Through the practices I’ve done I’ve somehow managed to be pretty chill despite the complete lack of sex and even complete lack of touch over YEARS – year after year – and very little social interaction in my life. It’s like living in high class solitary confinement most of the time. I’ve been there. Solitary confinement can drive the best of us bonkers. I remember working very hard to increase my social interaction, with a calendar of continuing ed classes and everything I could think of to get out and mingle. But still I wasn’t getting what I psychologically… Read more »
@jonnycomelately- dude, you are on fire with your comments.Some truly great stuff.
@xsplat “We are each on our own.” As I’ve always heard it put, “Every man wipes his own ass.” I think we’ve begun to hit a tipping point where men are starting to make individual decisions to abandon the current strategy in the sexual market place that we’ve all been taught. Whether that strategy is MGTOW or TRP -> Game, the momentum is growing rapidly. I would say among older guys (late 20s and up) it’s starting to become impossible to ignore. The younger guys will see it, wonder what’s up, start asking questions, and probably make the same choices.… Read more »
@ redlight: What I’m getting at is that there is a real primal biological desire for women to fulfill their alpha fucks strategy far more than their beta bucks strategy (at least in the west). When a women gets married to a beta, it’s typically because she’s giving in to her further limiting options as she gets older. This also goes without saying, but it’s also usually after she’s been passed around for free by alphas in her prime years. As for the ignored linebacker, we need to start looking at things as whole and not anecdotal experiences from others.… Read more »
xsplat – “It’s really a male-socialist fantasy, all this talk about society “collapsing” and reinventing itself…”
I think Sun Wukong neatly summarizes my position in his comment above.
@Sun Wukong, your projections don’t take into account the wild card of technological change. Society follows upon opportunity, and opportunity follows upon technology. Agrarian technology ushered in dramatic social changes. The industrial revolution ushered in more. The pill and the service economy ushered in more. If we could forecast that there will not be any more major socially disrupting new technologies, then we can tree to see our horizons. But I personally don’t see that as likely at all. We are going to start to see some very major technological shifts that will dramatically change culture, in ways far more… Read more »
As for my personal strategy, MGTOW remains a backup plan. I give myself a 50/50 chance of being able to make game work for me. I almost learned it too late. He’ll maybe it is too late. But I’m going to turn 38 next month, I’m making more money than I’ve ever made (and still aiming upwards), I’m better at the social games people play the I ever been, and my Game experiments on very average plates have gone well. I plan to hit the gym hard this winter and be hitting the streets more come summer. Hopefully I can… Read more »
In other words, adapt or don’t. If people think they have witnessed big cultural shifts, and are hoping for things to swing back around, they’ve got it ALL wrong.
We aint seen nothin yet.
The changes have only barely begun.
Sex robots. Resource wars that could touch impact on our physical safety and use unfamiliar weapons, such as bio-tech, micro-drones, and autonomous robots. Mind controlling implants. Brain upgrades. Even in the last few years facebook and tinder have changed society. Forty years ago that was not a prediction. Forty years from now the battle of the sexes will be held on a vastly different landscape. What having a baby even means will be vastly different; genes will no longer be a matter of paternity and maternity alone. And the effect of native genes will be vastly different. We will be… Read more »
My point of injecting this pragmatic uncertainty into the dialogue is to point out that in order to live strategically, our short and medium term goals must include working with the system as it is. Our long term goals should include being in the best possible position to adapt. And that for me means increasing wealth as much as possible. Nowhere is it pragmatically useful to plan for a future in which the battle of the sexes continues to be waged in our current techlogical landscape. That present is ALREADY the past. The present is history. This landscape won’t be… Read more »
For xslpat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic
@xsplat Counting on a deus ex machina to bring about a change in this aspect of society is missing the entire process it has gone through to get here. Technology never changed feminism for the past 40 years. It spread it faster, but it didn’t change the nature of it. It certainly didn’t change the nature of women either. Perhaps genetic engineering will remove the need for both parents, but cloning is incredibly unwise. If it does change the game that much, the change would have come about regardless of feminism’s influence or lack thereof. It certainly won’t be making… Read more »
[…] his latest post Rollo quotes from an earlier piece by Heartiste explaining an “experiment” which relied […]