From Love Story:
Men are expected to perform. To be successful, to get the girl, to live a good life, men must do. Whether it’s riding wheelies down the street on your bicycle to get that cute girl’s attention or to get a doctorate degree to ensure your personal success and your future family’s, Men must perform. Women’s arousal, attraction, desire and love are rooted in that conditional performance. The degree to which that performance meets or exceeds expectations is certainly subjective, and the ease with which you can perform is also an issue, but perform you must.
One of the most fundamental misconceptions plugged-in men have with regard to their intersexual relations with women is the issue of performance. Back in late March of this year I read an interesting article from Roosh, Men are nothing more than clowns to the modern woman and it struck me that although I certainly agreed with him in the context he presented it, there was more to the ‘entertainment’ factor than simple amusement on the part of women.
Women don’t seek out comfort or stability in men anymore—they seek entertainment. They seek distraction. They seek hedonistic pleasure. This is why provider men (beta males) are so hopelessly failing today to secure the commitment of beautiful women in their prime, and this is why even lesser alpha males fail to enter relationships with women beyond a few bangs. Once the entertainment or novelty you provide her declines—and it inevitably will—she moves on to something or someone else. In essence, the only way you can keep a girl is if you adopt the mentality of a soap opera writer, adding a cliffhanger to the end of each episode that keeps a woman interested when being a good man no longer does.
After reading this I tried to imagine myself being a recently unplugged man or a guy just coming to terms with the uncomfortable truths of the red pill and learning that all of the comforting “just be yourself and the right girl will come along” rhetoric everyone convinced me of had been replaced by a disingenuous need to transform oneself into a cartoon character in order to hold the attentions of an average girl.
That’s kind of depressing, especially when you consider the overwhelming effort and personal insight necessary in realizing red pill awareness. Roosh later tempered this with How to be a good clown and Clown Game vs. Good Man Game, and although he clarifies things well in Game terms, the root of the frustration most guys will have with the ‘clown factor’ is that, in these terms and in this context, their performance isn’t who they are.
In this environment it’s easy to see why the MGTOW option seems like an understandable recourse for red pill men. It’s a very seductive temptation to think that a man can simply remove himself from the performance equation with regards to women. I’ll touch on this later, but what’s important here is understanding the performance game men are necessarily born into. Like it or not, play it or not, as a man you will always be evaluated on your performance (or the perception of it).
I think what trips a lot of men up early in their red pill transformation is sort of a sense of indignation towards women that they should have to “be someone they’re not” and play a character role that simply isn’t who they are in order to hold a woman’s interest. I covered this idea in Have A Look and developed how women are like casting agents when it comes to the men they hope will entertain them.
This was really about a sexual context when I went into it, but as I read Roosh’s original article I began to consider that women’s “character” role they expect men to perform changes as their own phases of maturity dictates and their SMV can realistically demand for that phase. In other words the “characters” they want performed in their Party Years will be different than the ones they want after their Epiphany Phase, which may be different than the character they want for their mid-life years.
How realistic it is for men to be that character becomes less and less relevant as women are socialized to expect disappointment from men actually living up to the characters they’re conditioned to believe they should realistically be entitled to at various stages of their maturity.
Living Up
Right about now I’m sure various male readers are thinking, “fuck this, I’m gonna be who I am and any girl who can’t appreciate me for me is low quality anyway.” This will probably piss you off, but this is exactly the blue pill mentality most ‘just be yourself‘ Betas adopt for themselves.
It’s actually a law of power to despise what you can’t have, and deductively it makes sense, but the fact still remains, as a man you will always be evaluated by your performance. So even with a ‘fuck it, I’ll just be me’ mindset you’re still being evaluated on how well ‘you are just you’.
The simple fact is that you must actually be your performance – it must be internalized. In truth, you already are that performance whether you dictate and direct that, or you think you can forget it and hope your natural, undirected performance will be appreciated by women (and others), but regardless, women will filter for hypergamous optimization based on how well you align with what they believe they are entitled to in a man in the context of their own perception of their SMV.
Looks, talent, tangible benefits and other core prerequisites may change depending on the individual woman, but to be a man is to perform. Even if you’re a self-defined man going his own way who enjoys escorts to fulfill his needs, you still need to perform in order to earn the money to enjoy them.
It Doesn’t Get Easier, You Get Better
For Men, there is no true rest from performance. To believe so is to believe in women’s mythical capacity for a higher form of empathy which would perdispose them to overriding their innate hypergamous filtering based on performance.
Women will never have the same requisites of performance for themselves for which they expect men to maintain of themselves. Hypergamy demands a constant, subliminal reconfirmation of a man’s worthiness of her commitment to him, so there is never a parallel of experience.
Women will claim men “require” they meet some physical standard (i.e. performance) and while generally true, this is still a performance standard men have of women, not one they hold for themselves. There simply is no reciprocal dynamic or prequalification of performance for women, and in fact for a man to even voice the idea that he might qualify a woman for his intimacy he’s characterized as judgmental and misogynistic.
Social conventions like this are established to ensure women’s hypergamous sexual strategy is the socially dominant one. Expecting a woman to perform for a man is an insult to her ‘prize status’ as an individual.
From a humanistic perspective there’s a want for a rational solution to this performance requirement, but as I’ve outlined in prior posts, appeals to women’s reason are no insulation against the subliminal influences of hypergamy.
I read many a ‘dating coach’ who’s approach is complete honesty and full disclosure in the hopes that a like-minded, rational woman will naturally appreciate a man’s forthrightness, but this presupposes a preexisting equal playing field where subliminal influences are overridden by mutual rationalism.
The real hope is that women will drop their innate hypergamous performance requisites in appreciation of this vulnerable, inadequate honesty.
What they sweep under the rug is that you cannot appeal to a woman’s reason or sentiment to genuinely forgive a deficit in a man’s performance. Love, reason, both demand a preexisting mutual appreciation in a common context, but neither love nor reason alleviate the necessity of performance for a man.
Women simply are not motivated to compromise hypergamy on their own accord. They will not be reasoned into accommodating a situation of mutual needs by overt means.
It is a Man’s capacity to perform and demonstrate (never explicate) higher value that motivates women to accommodate mutual needs in a relationship – whether that’s a same night lay or a 50 year marriage.
Demonstrating Higher Value
I get the impression that DHV tends to get a bad rap both from blue pill critics as well as red pill aware men. A lot of that gets wrapped up in technique and practice. It’s easy to dismiss this concept as posturing or bluster, but DHV, as a principle isn’t defined by egotistical measures or how well a guy can ‘showboat’ himself around women.
A lot of DHV is unintentional. In fact the best most genuine forms of DHV are exhibited when a Man doesn’t realize he’s actually performing in a way that demonstrate his higher value. This can be as simple as walking int a room in the right context or environment. Even humility can be DHV in the proper context.
What I’m driving at here is that after reading all of this you might think I’m saying you need to be superhuman to qualify for women’s performance standards, and again that’s kind of depressing – that’s not what I’m getting at. A woman’s performance standards are dependent on many varied contexts and according to the priorities she places on the type of character she finds both arousing and attractive and according to what her conditions dictate for her.
It’s not how you perform so much as that you perform. Ambition and personal drive to perform and be the best and most successful you you can be may have absolutely nothing to do with your intention of attracting a woman, but you are still performing and you will be evaluated on that performance.
DHV or DLV is performance whether intentional or not. You cannot remove yourself from this performance equation. You can cease to direct your part in this performance, but until you die you cannot exit the game.
To do the dance in order to get the lay?
Yes.
In order to get a family?
Like, forever?
No.
I am running for the “The Price of Pussay is too Damn High Party”.
PPDHP!!!
Rollo, I always hate you for about twenty four hours after I read a new post. But then I think about it all the next day at work and it begins to make sense.
Thank you and please continue!
“Do I have to constantly keep this act up? Do I really need to perform at the top of my game indefinitely?
When can I let my guard down and relax?”
As soon as ‘your guard’ becomes who you are.
When you’ve internalized your performance as part of who you are, when it becomes your mental point of origin and the center of your frame control, then it’s no longer an act you must maintain.
Or, as soon as ‘your guard’ becomes ‘if I’m horny and haven’t found an acceptable sex partner at the end of tonight, i’ll just call a trusty escort. so i go out tonight unattached to any outcome.’
Problem solved.
See how that works?
@Steven H That totally works, I kid you not! And, without wanting to dip into the sexual dimorphous species and men die earlier because of intrasexual competition (probably?) pool to much, 100 EUR in my pocket makes me so outcome independent…. So much healthier too! And I am not open to the argument that it is just not the same, because if its just a matter what hoops to jump through, all women , basically, are whores. No such thing as free sex. If that is so, I would like to know the price and what I get before doing… Read more »
George, that is some very well-written and well-meaning advice. And I’m grateful that you would condense your knowledge and experience into a succinct paragraph or two, for me to ponder. And I certainly have pondered it, and will benefit from taking care not to pre-reject opportunities, as you say, and remembering to broaden out my focus. It seems you have included an element of relativism, which I am slightly wary of, though. “who’s to say what’s right and wrong, in this day and age?”, etc. Anyhow, what I’m referring to as being right and wrong are fairly basic: I loan… Read more »
Orion – “No such thing as free sex. If that is so, I would like to know the price and what I get before doing the deed, this hardly is too much to ask.” Actually from the feminine point of view that is exactly too much to ask. You, and I, want transparent fee and service schedules regardless of the form of currency exchanged. Women want ambiguity and the unfettered ability to rewrite those schedules at their whim. They want you to commit to the purchase without having to first disclose a final price. I think that’s the very essence… Read more »
@ agent p on September 23rd, 2014 at 1:24 pm, and related comments “… as if I am dealing with a child that simply doesn’t know herself yet. … but an honest assessment of the situation is, no, she did not actually fully know what she was doing, she was simply following a script, that we all now have a copy of including the directors notes.” I think that agent p and those who have disagreed with him are both partially right. Agent p is more correct regarding what I will call “dependent damage”, and those who disagree with him… Read more »
Seeing so many people joining in onto the manosphere is getting scary
Something is definitely really wrong with this country ha
Country? You mean western world. Europe is breeding itself out of existence, women only want to have babies when they reach their late 30s and by then their fertility is not only almost nil, the babies they have are defected.
”Or, as soon as ‘your guard’ becomes ‘if I’m horny and haven’t found an acceptable sex partner at the end of tonight, i’ll just call a trusty escort. so i go out tonight unattached to any outcome.’
Problem solved.
See how that works?”
But then they won’t be Alpha! aha and PUA think they can bang 8’s and 10s for free when even Kayne West other high-status men like him had to marry the hot women they are married to, to bang them. I guess rich and handsome men haven’t internationalized Alpha game yet.
I am sure that Kanye West has banged his girl for free prior to marriage. This is the case for most of the “Alphas” of the world. The girl was attracted to his Alpha-bravado let’s say and that’s what lead to sex. I am sure that all the hot girls that Kanye has slept with would be open to the possibility of marriage however he made a choice to be with one of them. For whatever the reasons might be, I believe that “Alpha” status social media men, they still live by the same code that beta men live by.… Read more »
This post has focused on a man having to be a performer just to get the woman into bed. The 80/20 rule, more like 90/10, means in this context that the man has the job to approach, the man has to initiate, the man has to open, the man has to keep it going, not too fast not too slow, not too many texts not too few texts, the man has to be amusing, the man has to be interesting, etc etc etc etc. Her job, apparently, is to bat her eyes and try to be entertained while staying on… Read more »
What if anything do you make of the ‘Third Encore’? To quote Don Felder of The Eagles “The third encore was one of the heavenly parts of being on the road that produced a hellish amount of guilt in my life. Before, during and after the show, part of our road crew would go out with bags of buttons—they were like little campaign buttons with a pin on it—and they said “3E” on them, which stood for the third encore, and find the most beautiful women in the arena and invite them back to this party with the Eagles at… Read more »
re: only married guy. If we take it literally and include Joe Walsh then it had to be 1979.
re: looks. Nobody can accuse the 5’9″ Frey or “Average Joe” Walsh of good looks. Don “I don’t know why these two underage teen girls are naked in my apartment” Henly was the best looking, but he paid cash for much of his own action.
@Promethean “Without religion there is NO controlling women.” To me, religion (stupidstitiousness) in our culture mitigates male sexuality more than women. Maybe my perception is incorrect, perhaps I’m mistaken due to limited exposure…but…the religious women I’ve known have been generally more sexually aggressive and their hypergamy more aggressive, especially those raised in strict religious environments. In high school there are more than a few “good Catholic school girls” who climb out their windows at night to fuck guys. One I knew of had guys coming over and climbing through her window after her parents went to sleep. A friend of… Read more »
But then they won’t be Alpha! aha and PUA think they can bang 8’s and 10s for free when even Kayne West other high-status men like him had to marry the hot women they are married to, to bang them. I guess rich and handsome men haven’t internationalized Alpha game yet. i’ll assume you’re playing devil’s advocate and don’t actually promulgate that horseshit. so glad you bring up this mindset because yes it is pervasive among lesser men. to that i say this: who cares if it’s ‘alpha’ or not to dial escorts. anyone who worries about that is utterly… Read more »
@haunted trilobite “But maybe you’re right, longing for the good ol days….” I think “the good ol days” were not “the good ol days”. I believe we are fooled into thinking so, we indulge nostalgia for something that never existed really, except maybe in stone age culture where many males perished in war or hunting accidents, etc….and the ratio was more in our favor…and male physical strength ruled….who’s to say, I wasn’t there,,,just a hypothesis. Today what is, is what is. Before we can deal with it we must first accept its existence for what it is, be aware. Awareness… Read more »
”’ll assume you’re playing devil’s advocate and don’t actually promulgate that horseshit. so glad you bring up this mindset because yes it is pervasive among lesser men. to that i say this: who cares if it’s ‘alpha’ or not to dial escorts. anyone who worries about that is utterly insecure. men are pathetically trapped in the matrix if giving a shit as to whether or they’re ‘alpha’. obtaining sex doesn’t have to be ‘tough’ either. costs for escorts = tantamount to pocket change for anyone with money. if you’re over 30, live in the western world, and have no money… Read more »
@ George, well, perhaps discounting the back-breaking labour, they were good ol days in at least one sense: disregarding the last 50-100 years, all of our paternal forbears married virginal, loyal, obedient women. As you say, it is what it is today, but by making ourselves aware of the disparity between today and yesteryear, we can hold women to higher standards “look, your grandmother managed without being spitroasted in a toilet cubicle, maybe you can too.”
But life is so much better today if men stop thinking about vagina for a minute. The movie, Cinderella man? Dude was a all-in Alpha male but he was still stuck working to the grave to support a wife and his kids. Gladiator? Another Super Alpha male who got shafted for being a decent man. My ancestors immigrated to our colonies in order to craft a better life for themselves, leaving behind their wives. You think being killed by south Americans was fun, or losing their teeth to scurvy trying to find the maritime pathway to India? nah man, vagina… Read more »
Re: Prostitution.
http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/09/services-rendered/
How realistic it is for men to be that character becomes less and less relevant as women are socialized to expect disappointment from men actually living up to the characters they’re conditioned to believe they should realistically be entitled to at various stages of their maturity.”
This sentence is way too long too comprehend
“I think the bigger problem now is MEN perpetuating these lies and convincing red pill awakening men that they’re effective forms of Game.” And what a tragedy it is. I’ve said this before, but I suspect the guys that adhere to this bullshit just haven’t had it rough enough yet. Maybe for some it will take a ruined marriage, for others getting cheated on — maybe even a number of times. How much does a man have to go through before he realizes he’s getting a raw deal? And then to have the blame put on HIM? Gaslighting: a form… Read more »
@haunted trilobite Absolve them of responsibility? Hardly. I never said I absolve them of responsibility at all. No, I said half the time they don’t know WTF they are doing. Yes, I made an analogy to children. Newsflash, I hold my CHILDREN to account for their actions, they are responsible, ignorance is no defence. Be it proffessed, feigned, real or other ignorance. It’s just I see lot’s of women make choices and then say, “I just don’t understand why I did that?”. Of course I understand why she did perfectly well. Good choice or bad on their part, ignorance or… Read more »
@Badpainter
“I think that’s the very essence of a dishonest transaction. They think it’s something else.”
Yeah, well, if they are beyond a certain age, who cares what they think?
I also report with a feeling of great loss that my most favorite of working girls retired, she sucked dick like it was her job.
Which it kind of was….
I shouldl have posted this on reddit, I would have made the misoginy olympics…..
Drats…
@ agent p When I first read your comment, it seemed clear and made a lot of sense to me, so I just continued reading down the thread. The problem that we have here is that everything that we write can be interpreted in many different ways, depending on the reader’s experiences and knowledge, and thus default context and state of mind. So, when I find myself agreeing with both people who are disagreeing with each other, I tend to go back and try to figure out a more “nuanced assessment of the situation”, even if just to clarify it… Read more »
Could you please change the tone, somehow, so that reading this stuff isn’t depressing? I understand the red pill is hard to transition to, when you’ve been blue pill, but maybe you could put a positive spin on this… I don’t know, like, how great it is that only men can have true bonds, or something like that. Or how well you are going to do now that you know the truth. Some of you in the comments have done this, and I truly appreciate it. I look at women now, and after all the shit I’ve put up with,… Read more »
@Meekiner, You just haven’t figured out how you can thrive in your new understanding yet. Yes, the red pill can be depressing at first, but the depression comes from having to reinvent yourself in a new paradigm that you’re unfamiliar with. It’s depressing when you look at your red pill awareness from a fem-centric perspective. http://therationalmale.com/2012/04/10/the-bitter-taste-of-the-red-pill/ The truth will set you free, but it doesn’t make truth hurt any less, nor does it make truth any prettier, and it certainly doesn’t absolve you of the responsibilities that truth requires. One of the biggest obstacles guys face in unplugging is accepting… Read more »
“Could you please change the tone, somehow, so that reading this stuff isn’t depressing? ”
The problem is that it isn’t depressing. It simply is. You are operating under an illusion. Becoming depressed is internal.
In the west being disillusioned is generally taken to be a cause for depression. In the east being dis-illusioned is generally taken to be the path to enlightenment.
There is your positive spin.
@agent p “Being butt hurt by the TRUE nature of women…..” We should not disdain women or their true nature. We should be more careful about what we embrace and envision, what we idealize. The human mind is extremely creative (male mind at least). I believe this creative ability cannot exist without the mind possessing an extremely impressionable component. Psychologically we are also creatures of habit. These dynamics enable us to make fantastic changes and creations or fantastically fool ourselves. Carefully chosen goals based on realistic awareness leads to success…or…garbage in – garbage out. What screws us up with women… Read more »
George – “Hypergamy itself actually has advantages for us if accepted, understood and used to our advantage.”
That’s interesting. What are these advantages? Do/can they flow to us individually or only collectively as a species?
One of the hardest lessons I had to learn when I unplugged was throwing away ‘hope’. Not real, internal, personal hope, but rather the ‘hope’ I had been led to believe was a realizable state – if circumstances, if personalities, if fate or some other condition defined by the feminine imperative would align, then that feminine defined contentment could be actualized. I wanted very much to realize that state by defining hope (or having it defined for me) in a context that was never of my own real choosing. I got just as depressed as anyone else when I unplugged.… Read more »
Hope is just one more way to be disappointed.
As an example of how much the ancients knew about these matters is that the one thing that did not make its escape from Pandora’s Box was Hope.
As I am prone to put it, Hope springs infernal.
“… or have them help you when you’re down, without them losing respect for you.” Women are not capable of helping you when you are (mentally) down, because they are fundamentally followers and not leaders. (If you question whether this is true, observe how female executives and “military officers”, who have been chosen for their ability to mimic men and pretend to have leadership qualities, act in times of crisis, or even in the presence of pressure that should be manageable.) And the loss of respect is a secondary effect of evaporation of security and creation of doubt. The single… Read more »
Badpainter from 9/24 at 11:15pm – can’t get that out of my head. that really struck a chord. you have a way of understanding and articulating female duplicity that is unparalleled. it’s racking my brain thinking about how women actually angle and scheme to arrive at a situation in which they can pull the rug out from under an honest man acting in good faith. and i cannot deny that this is exactly what happens a lot, and there is no remorse from the women who do this – suggesting that their motivation, whether cognitive or subconscious, is precisely as… Read more »
Speaking of hypergamy, it looks like basic demography is shedding a light on it: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/09/24/decline_of_marriage_pew_shows_there_aren_t_enough_marriageable_men.html
Steve H, Consider this. There is no motivation whatsoever as it pertains to any one man. There is no fraud because it was never about him, you, or me. There only herself, her feelings and nothing else. We are of no more relevance (and usually less) than a new pair of shoes, a sappy commercial, or a rainy day. We are just objects to reflect back projections of emotion with the frustrating quality of being able to kill whatever mood she was reveling in. For me honesty is a big deal. Women aren’t honest, nor are they dishonest, but rather… Read more »
Rollo, you don’t think there are cases where th juice just isn’t worth the squeeze? At some point, jerking off to a hot girl online while working 10 hours a week and traveling 6 months a year versus banging a average 45 yo woman and having to work a 50 hour job you don’t like to pay the bills. I’m young and have an attractive gf but don’t kid yourself if it ever becomes more work then it’s worth I’m not gonna bother. This is what mgtow is for me. It’s about putting yourself first, not others. I think you… Read more »
@eon “Women are not capable of helping you when you are (mentally) down, because they are fundamentally followers and not leaders.” It is not about women as followers and men as leaders. Every maried man knows that she cohabitates with his woman more/less peacefully only as long as he is doing precisely what she wants. So who is the leader here? They are not able to help you when you are mentally down, because they are TAKERS not GIVERS. They are empty vessels, they merely reflect your energy and emotions back on you. They are not able to produce their… Read more »
The male contraception revolution is on the way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_inhibition_of_sperm_under_guidance
http://www.mtv.com/news/1926484/male-birth-control/
Recent news articles tell of the current trial that was 100% (!) effective on baboons.
This appears to be a 100% effective male (and male controlled) contraceptive. Reversible, too! Won’t stop diseases (only a condom has the power to do that). Completely block sperm through the vas deferens by was of a special gel injected in there.
The manosphere talks about the revolution that will come with male contraceptives. Well, we are at the doorstep of the revolution, gentlemen.
@ Atticus – First off, wow, what a story. You have been through the meat grinder, as I have in my own way. The realization that all your efforts to provide and protect, to love and support and care for those people gains you nothing is hard to accept. I’ve had it demonstrated not only by an ex-wife but also a daughter and two sisters I was a father figure to when after a life of providing and caring, I found myself sick, unemployed and going broke. I couldn’t believe how they turned on me the moment I spit the… Read more »
Rollo says superbly “the hope I was sold came from the same social paradigm that never had my best interests as a priority.” But I’m sure someone will complain that these ideas are just too hard to express well.
Badpainter lol; “Tuesday revisions will however be every bit as sincere as the Friday statements. Any effort to lock down a durable promise, outside a legally enforceable contract, is therefore insulting because it questions her sincerity by revealing a lack of faith. “ I eventually took to countering the “if you do X (with/for Mee-eeee), then we can do Y (that you want)” conditional pleading and inevitable defections with “No. Your promises aren’t worth the blood they’re written in.” Subject closed. First few times ofc, got the ragetears and (not always metaphorical) footstamping. But curiously, no actual denial, just accusations… Read more »
@Sirtyrione,
you’re the owner of this blog? http://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/
It seems that most of your comments are taken from there
@Glenn
Gunboat. A sexy choice, Bravo
@Badpainter re: male advantages to the ingrainedness of female hypergamy.
1. You can Just Be Yourself and give honest signals enabling you to succeed with women, provided you are part of the top 20% (or 10% or whatever).
2. The ingrainedness make it too easy for any guy to give dishonest signals that enable him to succeed with women, if he is willing to be dishonest, bad etc.
jf12, I accept your response without reservation. However… You have explained the advantage understanding and acknowledging the reality of hypergamy. That is very different from describing any innate advantage to men that comes from hypergamy. Unless what you are saying is that is OK to proceed however one wishes to achieve a desired a result because hypergamy unshackles a man from any responsibility to adhere to principle in the game. In other words the ends justify the means and we can live guilt free as it pertains to our behavior. Sorta reduces the value of the prize in my eyes… Read more »
@ gregg, September 26th, 2014 at 6:35 am “It is not about women as followers and men as leaders. Every married man knows that he cohabitates with his woman more/less peacefully only as long as he is doing precisely what she wants. So who is the leader here?” [I understand the legal ramifications of Marriage / Cohabitation 2.0, and agree that it is only for the brave or foolish.] An intimate relationship is precisely about women as followers and men as leaders. What you are describing has no leader because it is not an intimate relationship, or even a “relationship”.… Read more »
To be a MAN from antiquity have always required meeting certain prerequisite
@Badpainter re: “hypergamy unshackles a man from any responsibility to adhere to principle in the game”.
I shiver. This idea is as far beyond “two wrongs don’t make a right” as a SWAT team’s terrorist response is beyond kids playing cops and robbers. I cannot go there. I have returned to the fold, fwiw, if I ever left, so I must say it is NOT “OK to proceed however one wishes to achieve a desired a result”, although you may not achieve the result otherwise.
jf12 – “I shiver” As do I since this seems one direction society is moving in. jf12 – “… I must say it is NOT “OK to proceed however one wishes to achieve a desired a result”, although you may not achieve the result otherwise.” Then there is no advantage to being aware of hypergamy, and no advantage to hypergamy that flows to individual men. Of course I should say it’s the unrestrained hypergamy of the current AFBB model we currently deal with that presents this problem. Once we are back to mud huts it’ll all be OK, and the… Read more »
@jf12 and @Badpainter What kind of moralizing buffoonery is this? Of course an individual can deshackle himself from a society’s obligations if that society doesn’t benefit his interest. Nobody is entitled to anything. Suggesting otherwise is the product of a severely limited mind. @ Rollo Very fine post. It’s too bad the despairing “looks are everything” trolls come out of the woodwork repeatedly undermining the productive consumption of your work. I see this post as an effective counterpoint to the reactionary manosphere which dominates most discussions these days. If one is interested in the greatest good for the greatest number,… Read more »
DBMS – “Of course an individual can deshackle himself from a society’s obligations if that society doesn’t benefit his interest. Nobody is entitled to anything.” Indeed. I say a man has an obligation to unshackle from an oppressive society. The better for him at least. Where was entitlement mentioned of implied? As for moralizing I do believe some things are absolutely wrong or immoral. Taking advantage of a hypergamy loophole isn’t wrong or right it is practical. Just because something is amoral and practical doesn’t mean I have to like it, sorta like broccoli. This started because George said: “Hypergamy… Read more »
”Very fine post. It’s too bad the despairing “looks are everything” trolls come out of the woodwork repeatedly undermining the productive consumption of your work.” What trolls? Someone who speaks the truth is a troll? Mister, I’ve met any ”Gamers” and most of the them failed at getting even average women to give them their numbers. The few gamers who scored had good-looks or were tall. Don’t’ try and say that women are into status or wealth or such other nonsense. I never see beautiful or even average young women with men older than them more than 5 years. Women… Read more »
@ eon and @rollo “It is actually easy to establish a dominant role from the very beginning of a relationship. Once you are certain in your own mind that you will not give in, you simply establish the parameters and then wait for her to submit or leave. The relationship can then be calibrated and extended indefinitely, as long as it is mutually beneficial.” “Once I understood this was an idealization rather than a reality, and that women can and do love men deeply in an entirely different feminine concept of love, I discovered that I no longer ‘hoped’ for… Read more »
@eon one more thing – I noticed that you somehow “divided” marriage and “relationship” with woman. It is ultimately the same, marriage is just further down the line. Woman ultimately wants to merge with man, catch him, enalsve him and make him to provide for her and her children. It is her DNA master tape. We all know that “relationship” with woman has stages. If you want the best from woman, it means that you have to hold her in the first acquisition phase – where she is doing everything to catch you. You can prolong the acquisition phase with… Read more »
I think I get it! For years I have been bitter about this need to “perform” about how this shows that women do not love us as we love etc.. And just now I was reviewing my old relationships and I recalled something. In each of my relationships, prior to meeting the women I eventually fell in love with, I was constantly working on myself, I would get in shape, hang out with friends, explore my environment and work on myself and my music etc. As soon as I would “fall in love” I would slowly drop those activities,I’d focus… Read more »
@Professor Van Hardwiggs Your existence is toxic to self-improvement which is the primary reason for the manosphere. I have seen no evidence that studying Game results in men believing that looks/masculinity don’t matter or that it makes them worse with women. The very fact that you think Game is a series of body language postures or lines indicates you have a very superficial view of the scope of the game literature. Its purpose is to reveal the strategy inherent in human mating dynamics. Understanding and using this strategy is not about canned behaviors being replicated in set conditions. It is… Read more »
I actually detect a shift in the manosphere away from “Game” and towards looks fatalism. The idea of “game” was always romantic and hamsterish, as if some awkward man could just practice some lines or routines and start solving his dating problems. PUA at its core was always about men already somewhat advantaged in looks and social skills getting together and scheming to become even more skilled at dating, and other men vicariously living through those men. Basically, there is a market for PUA, but that doesn’t mean PUA works if you’re aren’t as a male already a cut above… Read more »
This ^^^^^ Prof, spend more time reading and less time writing. Spend more time observing and less time judging. The world simply isn’t the way you seem to think. There are desirable women all over the media, but how many of them are seen in everyday life? Few. How many women 1-2 points lower than healthy-self-esteem you are seen? Not many. I mostly see fat, resting-bitch-faced, sloppily dressed war pigs, who FEEL they deserve the best in life dished up by Chippendale dancers. For 80-90% of us, this stuff isn’t as easy as some of the swordsmen commenting on this… Read more »
“Your existence is toxic to self-improvement which is the primary reason for the manosphere.”
Self-improvement is good and all, but is it really the “primary reason for the manosphere”? I’d say the reason the manosphere exists is that a lot of men like sharing and discovering truths about the modern world from a masculine perspective. What you do with that knowledge is up to you.
Let me remind everyone that I started my [September 26th, 2014 at 1:20 pm] comment by stating: “I understand the legal ramifications of Marriage / Cohabitation 2.0, and agree that it is only for the brave or foolish.” . @ gregg, September 27th, 2014 at 1:33 am I was talking about two different topics in my comment, and I separated them very clearly. And yet you still took pieces from each and put them together, as if that can actually mean something. Run along and Google “out of context”. Let me know if I need to explain it to you.… Read more »
@ Rollo
http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20140924/lapd-officer-found-dead-in-thousand-oaks-identified-lauded-as-hardworking
“When deputies arrived, they made contact with a woman who’d managed to flee the home”
““The partnerships he built were amazing. He was always, ‘How can we solve this together?’ ” relational equity?
Hyperhypergamy in your face, or is this slutosis?
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/news/a31551/stages-of-sex/?click=_lpTrnsprtr_1
This entire dynamic is a power struggle for control….control of “the relationship”….more specifically control of what relationships will or will not provide. I recently met an older man in his early seventies on an airplane, he noticed me reading The 48 Laws of Power (thanks for the referral Rollo, my 15 year old daughter is reading it now). This man had owned an engineering firm contracting with the Navy for 30 years, retired at 55, was in excellent shape for his age, looked at least ten years younger than actual, married 25 years divorced and single for 20. He divorced… Read more »
http://www.livescience.com/47976-more-mothers-in-human-history.html?cmpid=514645_20140925_32220826
Just saying…
Yes, hypothetically this is because open competition between males without laws imposing “equality” eliminated some males. Also, infant males died easier than females without modern medicine and males in the past lived riskier lives. We can argue this helped ensure the health and survival of our species.
A harem is the ultimate plate spinning scenario. In at least one culture a bitch gets out of line, gets stoned to death.
Gregg – Woman ultimately wants to merge with man, catch him, enalsve him and make him to provide for her and her children. It is her DNA master tape. We all know that “relationship” with woman has stages. If you want the best from woman, it means that you have to hold her in the first acquisition phase – where she is doing everything to catch you. You can prolong the acquisition phase with woman..and when she moves beyong it and it starts to be unacceptable, and this time comes for every woman, I just…move away. This is what you… Read more »
@Rollo “…women can and do love men deeply in an entirely different feminine concept of love, I discovered that I no longer ‘hoped’ for that mutuality…” I have some understanding of gender dynamics as they are described here, but really only from the male perspective, especially the Red Pill perspective. I am having trouble (and I think many others are also) recognizing that “women can and do love men deeply in an entirely different feminine concept of love”. Perhaps a previous post addresses this in detail, I haven’t found one. Would you define for us more specifically, concisely, and comprehensively… Read more »
@badpainter “What are these advantages? Do/can they flow to us individually or only collectively as a species?” Both individually and collectively. For your personal enjoyment of life consider the individual context. Women want you (assuming you’re desirable) at least as bad as you want them. They want you to facilitate their goals and desires. Use this knowledge to YOUR advantage. You are not obligated to make any commitments and there is nothing wrong with changing your mind about a particular woman for any reason or using her and ditching her however you see fit. This is what they are programmed… Read more »
George – “Consider your realm to be a ‘right to fuck state’.”
Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated. Pretty much the conclusion I had reached.
And then you ask this of Rollo:
“Would you define for us more specifically, concisely, and comprehensively how woman’s deep love for man (when it exists) is manifested; and describe in detail her concept of love as you understand it?”
I too would like to have this fleshed out, mostly because my current understanding of Rollo’s explanation leaves me thinking I can live easily and happily without it.
I’ve experienced extreme frustration over the fact that women never seem to think that they should bring “benefits to the table” with regards to a long-term relationship. I reasoned that if were really to enjoy equality in relationship, then both parties should incorporate this ideal from the beginning. In so doing, I would always make sure to insist that potential dates reveal the benefits she intends to bring the relationship. Most of the time, it appeared that I caught her off guard. One sentence in this article explains why: “Women will never have the same requisites of performance for themselves… Read more »
[…] challenged in his drop of status and esteem. I’ve elaborated in the past about a man’s burden of performance or how women’s concept of ‘love’ is based on a passive opportunism of what a man […]
[…] of displays of weakness, but what they ignore is that Hypergamy demands men that can shoulder the burden of performance. When a man openly broadcasts his vulnerableness he is, by definition, beginning from a position of […]
[…] or subconsciously hold this against you. Whether you like it or not, men are subject to the burden of performance. You must perform in order to qualify for a woman’s love and affection. You need to perform […]
[…] be mitigated by this foreknowledge of a relatively ensured support should he not live up to the performance demanded of […]
[…] In prior posts I’ve also made the case that men’s idealistic perspective of love stems from an unending need for performance to merit a woman’s opportunistic love. It’s not that men want an unrealistic, unconditional love, but rather they want a woman’s love to be a refuge from having to perform up to, above and beyond the requirements of satisfying an unending optimization of her Hypergamy. It’s not unconditional love they idealize, it’s a love that’s not predicated on their burden of performance. […]
[…] the most part these tests are ones of measuring his performance and provisioning capacity against his Alpha tingles generating capacity. Passive tests are […]
[…] The Rational Male’s post Burdon Of Performance Rollo explores the concept that men always have to pay a price for pussy. The concept is old as the […]
[…] of a man’s desire to have a woman love him unconditionally. Rollo talks about it here and here. My words are heartfelt, vulnerable, and utterly clueless. It didn’t change a damn thing in […]
I got started here a few days ago, and am working thru all your backlinks from other articles. I’m loving this conversation. Small contribution here: A man starts off as the “performer” (or the clown?). He does this, because it’s his job to make “offers” to women (who accept/decline). He walks up, starts his “performance.” This forces her into the role of a critic (any guy that has done cold-approach, knows what it feels like to be critiqued). The critic “leans back” and “evaluates,” until she’s hooked… then she becomes a “fan,” leans forward, and the roles are reversed. This… Read more »
[…] In The Burden of Performance I made the case for men’s need to perform for feminine acceptance and how men’s idealistic concept of love centers not on a want for unconditional love, but rather a love free from the performance requirements women’s opportunistic, Hypergamous, concept of love demands of him. This quote sums up that idealistic want for rest from having to perform to earn a woman’s love and acceptance. […]
[…] One of the strangest things that I never realized before, and probably wouldn’t have realized at all if it weren’t for my mother & her book, was that men are held to higher standards of expectations in society. From the beginning of time, it has always been this way. Rollo Tomassi, author of The Rational Male (Vol I) & The Rational Male: Preventive Medicine (Vol II), writes that Men are expected to perform. […]
[…] the functional equivalent of women’s. What they fail to consider is how men’s inherent burden of performance factors into his overall SMV and the time, effort and personal investment necessary to maximize […]
[…] we see that Protein World’s male focused ad gets no such vandalism. The message is clear – It is Men who must perform, Men who need to change themselves, optimize themselves and strive for the highest physical ideal […]
[…] we see that Protein World’s male focused ad gets no such vandalism. The message is clear – It is Men who must perform, Men who need to change themselves, optimize themselves and strive for the highest physical ideal […]
[…] In einem anderen Text schreibt der Autor dazu auch: […]
[…] to make them socially acceptable. That stigma is founded in a limbic-level understanding of men’s burden of performance; to be a Man is not just to produce sustainable resources, but to provide a surplus of those […]
[…] era men adapted to their socio-sexual and relational realities based on a pre-acknowledged burden of performance. I’ve outlined the expectations of this period in The Second Set of […]
[…] investment, as well as acculturation for men to realize their personal potential. Men’s burden of performance wasn’t much different in prior eras, but the timeframe necessary to reach a man’s peak […]
[…] These are relatively easy assessments to make about the intent of this note, however, what both factions of women debating this presume is a condition of feminine primacy. The feminine presumption is one that this school is nominally founded in male primacy – the girls distract the boys with their advertised sexuality – but the expectation is one based in the male Burden of Performance. […]
[…] The Burden of Performance […]
[…] For all the public awareness campaigns extolling fathers to be fathers, the message is always one of being “better” fathers and placing them into a default position of being less than ‘good’ by virtue of their maleness. In fact a ‘good’ father is a rarely appreciated commodity because that ‘good’ quality is always tied to a man’s never ending and ever shifting burden of performance. […]
[…] the remaining minutes, the purpose of his talk is to re-affirm to the audience what Rollo calls men’s burden of performance. A man must work hard to earn his right to intimacy. Every day. Sustained every day as a process […]
[…] this male-space your son needs to learn about his eventual burden of performance.I’d also advise you institute some kind of rite of passage for him from being a boy to being […]
[…] there comes a point where that Beta wants, sometimes adamantly insists, for his own burden of performance to be replaced, or at least handicapped, by a woman meeting him half way. This want is rooted in […]
[…] the one who turned it into this, not him. You’re the one who has saddled him with the burden of performance like he’s a mule. He has no say-so over how any of it works. He either conforms to what you […]
[…] Alpha ‘fix’ by working among higher status men who haven’t abdicated on their burden of performance by adopting the feminine support […]
[…] while back I was asked why the Burden of Performance should be called a “burden” at all. Should it not be a “challenge” or a […]
[…] of displays of weakness, but what they ignore is that Hypergamy demands men that can shoulder the burden of performance. When a man openly broadcasts his vulnerableness he is, by definition, beginning from a position of […]