There’s an interesting discussion that’s been belabored in the manosphere for a while now, that of traditionally “male spaces” being infiltrated by women and / or being redefined by feminized restructuring. The modern, western, workplace is the easiest example of this, but whether it’s the recent inclusion of women in the formerly all-male membership of Augusta Golf Club, or the lifting of the ban on women (and accommodating their prevalent physical deficits) being in combat roles in the military, the message ought to be clearer to red pill men; the feminine imperative has a vested interest in inserting itself into every condition of male exclusivity.
Whether this condition is an all male club or cohort (gender segregated team sports for example) or a personal state that is typically attributed only to the masculine – characteristic strength, rationality, decisiveness, risk taking, even brashness or vulgarity – the Feminine Imperative encourages women to insert themselves, and by association the Feminine Imperative itself, into masculine exclusivity. Scout Willis’ (Bruce Willis’ daughter) most recent ‘activism’ to encourage female equality by going topless in public is an example of this female-to-male parity (google it) – in an equalist utopia, if men can do it, women should be able to as well.
The First Woman
This push into male space is rarely due to a true desire to belong to a traditionally all-male institution or condition, but women are encouraged to believe they’ll make some dent in the universe simply by being the first to push past a “gender barrier.” It’s not about making a true contribution to that male institution or endeavor, but rather a goal of being ‘the first woman to do it too’.
For all of the misdirections of a hoped for equalism, it’s not about becoming an astronaut for a woman, but rather becoming the first woman–astronaut – then moving on to being the first woman assigned to a combat role in the military, then the first woman to play at Augusta. If equalism were the real intent, we could expect the desire of the endeavor itself would supersede this, but the Feminine Imperative motivates women (and socially demotivates men’s resistance) to the first woman goal, not the actual accomplishment or excellence in that accomplishment or endeavor. The trail being blazed is less important than being the first woman trailblazer – in fact it can simply be the same trail men blazed centuries before and still be recognized as a significant accomplishment.
The goal is to be a woman in male space.
The cover story is the same trope the Feminine Imperative (and its social arm, feminism) always finds useful; the never ending push towards gender equalism. The practice however reveals the push into male space serves two purposes – social control and male oversight.
Social control is the easier of the two to grasp. Even when changing the rules of an all-male game to accommodate a lack of genuine female interest in a male endeavor, it fundamentally alters the nature of that game. The first woman allowed participation in that game is novelty enough to extend the Feminine Imperative’s social control into that male space (i.e. “nowadays women do it too”).
An easy example of this would be NASCAR’s embracing a driver like Danica Patrick. It’s not that she’s an exceptional driver, and I can’t vouch for her genuine passion for NASCAR, but the social control she represents is that she is the first woman to (dubiously) be taken seriously in the nominally all-male space of NASCAR drivers. The goal has been achieved, all that’s left now is female oversight of this male space.
Overseers in the Locker Room
The second purpose in the goal of female inclusion into male space is really a policing of the thought dynamics and attitudes of the men in that space. When women are allowed access to the locker room the dynamic of the locker room changes. The locker room can take many different shapes: the workplace environment, the sports team, the group of all-male coders, the primarily male scientific community, the ‘boys club’, the group of gamer nerds at the local game store, even strip clubs and the sanctuary you think your ‘man cave’ is – the context is one of women inserting themselves into male space in order to enforce the dictates of feminine social primacy.
When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting maintaining the former level of interest in the endeavor.
Men unaccustomed to having women in their midst generally react in two ways; According to their proper feminized conditioning, they embrace the opportunity to impress these ‘trailblazing’ women (hoping to be found worthy of intimacy) with their enthusiastic acceptance of, and identification with, their feminine overseer(s), or they become easy foils of an “out moded” way of thinking that the new ‘in-group’ happily labels them with.
Once the feminine-primary in-group dynamic is established a ‘feminine correct’ social frame follows. This feminine correction restructures the priorities of goals, and validates any accomplishments, in terms of how they reflect upon the feminine as a whole. Thus any in-group success is perceived as a feminine success in male space, while in-group failures or simple mediocrity is either dismissed entirely or blamed on out-group men’s failure to comply with, or the rejection of, the Feminine Imperative’s ‘correcting’ influence on the in-group.
When I was writing The Apologists I briefly delved into the topic of Bro Culture. It seems that a constantly self-reinventing feminism loves to attach “culture” to the end of anything it sees as threatening – Rape Culture, Male culture of privilege, and of course Bro Culture. Make no mistake, the concept of Bro Culture is an operative feminine social convention. It may be convenient to think of the stereotype of Bro Culture as a male creation, but this convention is the direct result of the Feminine Imperative’s controlling need to insert itself into male spaces.
There are other feminine social conventions with the same latent purpose, but the ‘Bro Culture’ meme is really a dual purpose shaming tactic intended to restrict and control traditional male bonding while also fostering infighting amongst in-group and out-group men once feminine influence has been established in a formerly all-male space.
One of the most threatening aspects of conventional masculinity for the Feminine Imperative is the cooperative potential of male bonding. When only men comprise an in-group, team building, common purpose and a masculine-primary environment tend to define that group. I would argue that the modern insertion of feminine influence into all male spaces is a concerted effort to limit this bonding and unity in favor of a feminine-primary ‘correctness’.
This limitation may not be directly influenced by a present female; often all that’s needed to foster feminine-primary correctness is a feminine-identifying male in the in-group (anonymous White Knight), or even just a prevailing attitude of not wanting to offend the suspicions that other in-group men may subscribe to this feminine-identifying influence for fear it may get back to a woman they perceive may have authority.
From The Apologists:
This is the hallmark of a feminized Beta mindset – to believe that “guys being guys” is inherently aberrant. It’s something other guys do. I could go into detail about how men giving each other shit is an evolutionary (and useful) vestige of tribalism and how men would use this “challenging” to ensure the strength and survivability of the collective, but this will only grate against his ‘gender-as-social-construct’ belief.
This discomfort with ‘being a guy’ is the root disposition of many high-functioning Betas, and particularly those seeking to better identify with the feminine in the hopes it will pay off in sexual dividends. These are the guys who never ‘got it’ that shit talking and locker room jabs (the same male space invaded by the feminine) are intended not just to determine masculine fitness, but to foster living, building and measuring up to a better masculine standard that benefits both the individual man and the collective of humanity.
The fact that ‘Bro Culture’ is even a term, or the go-to archetypal examples of it begins with stereotypical jocks, “douchebags” and team sport locker rooms, illustrates the threat to which male-exclusive forms of communication poses to the Feminine Imperative. If male space can be co-opted in the name of gender equalism, it’s far easier to restrict that male communication and influence it to encourage a sense of responsibility towards feminine-primary security needs. In other words, it’s a much easier task to create future Beta providers if a feminine influence can pervade all male spaces – this is facilitated all the better when it is men themselves who hold other men accountable to the dictates of the Feminine Imperative and feminine sexual strategies.
I think it’s important that we don’t lose sight of the way men communicate, test each other, hone each other, give each other shit, etc. being primarily defined in the context of Bro Culture, douchebaggery, team sports, etc. That intra-male dynamic crosses so many social, racial and cultural strata it becomes an overarching threat to the Feminine Imperative.
It’s an easy task to set men against each other when they perceive sexual rivals to be part of an out-group, and feminine influence in male space fosters this passive (sometimes active) infighting amongst men. Disrupting male bonding, or even the potential for it, limits men’s potential to unify in their own interests and their own imperatives. There are many in-group examples of all male space where this infighting and resentment plays out – it’s important to understand that male-exclusive forms of communication, testing, encouragement and shit talking, are in no way limited to just the locker room. Even guys in the chess club will give each other shit – at least until the Feminine Imperative inserts itself there.
Resisting the Influence
I can’t end this post without drawing attention to the all male meta-space that has become the gestalt of the manosphere. The manosphere is male space writ large and a testament to what men can do when they come together, share experience and put their minds to a common purpose. The methods may vary, but the desire to collectivize male experience for the benefit of other men is a meta-scale form of male bonding.
And as should be expected, there will be resistance to that communication and bonding on a comparatively meta-scale by the Feminine Imperative and the men and women who subscribe to it. I should also add that a very obvious attempt on women’s inclusion into red pill ideology, theory and practice is also a move by the feminine into a male space with much of the same purpose I’ve outlined here – social control and female oversight of it.
Even the most well meaning of women involved (however peripherally) in the manosphere are still motivated by their innate security needs – and those hypergamous security needs imply a want for certainty and control. As such the psychological influence of the Feminine Imperative will always be a predominant motivator in their participation in this all male space. This leads women to a want to sanitize Game to fit the purposes of the imperative, as well as oversee the thought processes of the men who come to participate in it.
Just like any other male space, the manosphere is subject to all the sanitization efforts of the Feminine Imperative I’ve outlined in this post – by both women and men who still ascribe to feminine-primacy.
@ Steve H. from convo with Zen – It seems like you are giving Zen queues on how to be beta with a woman, qualifying and trying to please her. @ Zen – Steve’s advice is 100% wrong. And I mean it when I tell you that hiring a prostitute to get your first encounter out of the way won’t help you – this isn’t about the mechanics of sex, we all know how to fuck, you’ll see it comes quite naturally. It’s about your mindset. Hiring a prostitute is exactly the opposite of being Alpha. An abundance mindset cannot… Read more »
The appropriate response to women telling men to “man up” is to ask them just what the fuck would they know about being a man?
The more appropriate response would usually be something along the lines of “why the hell would you want anybody to ‘man up,’ given your overt hostility toward anything remotely masculine? Don’t you really mean to demand ‘metrosexual up!”?
Great comment. Put me back into a positive and empowered state of mind.
You smashed it again Rollo. Good work.
Glenn- “In the end, a man is shortchanging a woman by not being his ‘best alpha self’.”
What exactly is she providing in return other than sex? What happens when the SHTF and you need her to be more than a groupie? Will being your best Alpha self assure she will be supportive in a time of crisis when you need her?
I think too much concern about short changing women is got us in this mess in the first place. Our first concern should be not short changing ourselves.
I agree totally. The problem is the disconnect between a man’s need for sex and a woman’s tendency to exploit this for her gain. Only when there is unequivocally solid evidence (such as freaky non-PIV and non-PIA play) that sex will be provided freely and continually, should a man begin to consider the other “necessary, but (still) not sufficient” characteristics of the relationship.
Not demanding that mutual chemistry be demonstrated from the get-go is what gets men in trouble. But perhaps delaying the more intimate acts until more dimensions develop is a reasonable compromise.
@ Badpainter – I knew someone was going to go off on that comment. It’s clear, you’re angry at women – I’m not. I actually don’t mind being my “best alpha self” with a woman who responds in kind by being a great, sexy, woman who isn’t bossy, doesn’t nag and finds comfort in being with a strong, dominant man. A woman who nurtures me, who is a refuge for me from the world, who builds me up, who sees what’s great about me instead of what’s missing. I’m not doing it for her exactly either, as I now know… Read more »
@Glenn, ” a woman who responds in kind by being a great, sexy, woman who isn’t bossy, doesn’t nag and finds comfort in being with a strong, dominant man. A woman who nurtures me, who is a refuge for me from the world, who builds me up, who sees what’s great about me instead of what’s missing.”
That woman’s existence is not contingent on the man’s alphaness; it’s simply not, in reality. I’ve seen perfectly submissive wives with beta husbands, and I’ve seen contrary women with alpha husbands.
Glenn – “But of course one cannot say anything of the sort in the Red Pill world. Men are victims here and we simply cannot discuss male agency and how we fuck ourselves.” I encourage you to go back and read my (several) comments in that exchange, through a prism of ‘here’s how you, as a virgin male, can assert your male agency, with pragmatic tools to deal with potential pitfalls in-the-moment, to get the virginity monkey off your back and move forward with your life’ and not through your pre-established prism of ‘This has got to be stupid advice… Read more »
Glenn’s comment is spot-on. The degree of a man’s alphaness will bring out either the best or the worst in a woman. In many cases, one would not want even the best of her….but in other cases, you get exactly the relationship that you want. Whatever the case, a beta mindset by definition is incapable of giving you the best possible partner because it wont bring out the best in a woman….it is like asking a car to run on water. You only get a real feminine woman when you are acting like a real masculine man. That requires dominance… Read more »
@ Glenn and New Yorker, I get what you’re saying. I am not angry at women I am just not sure they are worth the effort. Knowing now what they and what they expect is better than my pervious understanding. But I want doesn’t exist and what does exist (beyond sex) I’m not sure I want. Not long term anyways, and I am not sure it’s worth the effort. It’s certainly not worth treating like an investment, and long term planning is out the window. My defect is that after 35+ years having been the poster child for Nice Guy… Read more »
Badpainter, The whole point of game is to make it an essential part of you. That only comes with work and everyday vigilance. Then, you wont need to worry about letting your guard down because your core will be strong instead of weak. That only comes with time. However, don’t do it for women. Do it for yourself. Live your life with possibility instead of doom. Do a little more than you could yesterday. Progress comes in small pieces but it is a fantastic thing to behold when it happens….and gradually, things will open up. There are constant barriers, frustrations,… Read more »
Steve and Badpainter – Seems we are in much greater agreement than I thought, great. So here’s the deal, BadP – and please don’t get pissed at me. You come across very hurt and emotionally wounded, call it angry or whatever you want. I am not unsympathetic, and in fact I’ve only moved out of my own anger and hurt recently. It is a motherfucker to wake up after the Red Pill, but it’s also not productive to stay in the “women are kryptonite” place. Fyi, Steve, I’m not chasing hard 9s these days – that was 20+ years ago.… Read more »
Steve H, (starting to wonder, judging from your advice you might be Steve Harvey) anybody who follows that advice of ‘hope you don’t mind it’s been a while, is that okay?…’
you might want to tell people what to say when the girls asks with a look of concern on her face, not a look of understanding, “so why has it been such a long time?”
By the way Rollo, Susan Walsh completely misunderstood your comment on Dalrock and I followed the link about her “taking down” as she put it, your graph on sexual market value and she completely misunderstood that.
She even doesn’t understand how a graph that has two plots on it can cover two different areas when time is one of the factors.
At least I hope it was a misunderstanding and not purposeful attempt.
WCB – at least quote me correctly, maybe. in none of those examples i gave did i ever write ‘is that okay?’ – and ‘right?’ enunciated in a presumptuous fashion comes across a hell of a lot different in the succinct flow of a conversation. Obviously it’s ideally better to not say anything that conveys one’s inexperience – but if a guy is nervous or freaking out or emotionally uncomfortable to any significant extent – this will pace the interaction, this will take some of the responsibility off his plate, and this will in most cases yield an understanding-yet-not-pitying reaction… Read more »
Actually she doesn’t misunderstand anything, she deliberately screen capped half of my comment (instead of linking directly to it on Dal’s thread) out of context in order to create her strawman.
That’s all Susan does, create straw men.
Susan and women like her most fear that men in their mid-late 20s will become educated en masse as to the longitudinally writ-across-the-lifespan calculated deceit and misdirection of the covert AFBB strategy practiced de facto by ~80% of modern western women in that same age range. That said – Rollo, you comment on her all the fuckin’ time. I never understood it. Maybe it’s time to ignore her. I’d say that apart from her increasingly vicious swipes at you, she’s nowhere near as horrible as the Amanda Marcottes of the world (nor nearly as influential). Lastly, a point on that… Read more »
It’s just about impossible to have a rational discussion about feminism. Any criticism of it at all is attacked. People aren’t even willing to look at the facts or consider anything that might be wrong with it. It’s just assumed to be true, and if you don’t agree with it, it doesn’t matter what you have to say, because going against it in any way, shape or form automatically gets you the label of being a misogynist. Either that, or you “don’t understand feminism.” Because feminism is “all about equality.” So if you imply or directly say something about feminism… Read more »
Great post. Really enjoyed the comments too. The topic of women/girls invading men/boys spaces is something that concerns me greatly, and is the one of many FI double standards that really pisses me off. In the past year I joined a band to play bass. I’m in my 40s. My kids are getting older so I have the time now to commit to some rehearsals and gigs. I look forward to this band as a guy thing. But, as soon as I join, the drummer and guitar player start talking about getting a chick singer. I tell them no, it’s… Read more »
@ BadP – I’ve been thinking a lot about your comment. First, thanks for the brutal honesty. You are admitting a truth that gets at something fundamental about the reality of love and relationships and game etc. It seems one way of looking at it is that you asking this question (among others): How can I actually love a woman and “game” her simultaneously? How can I not be drawn into my habituated Betaness and vassalage to women after a lifetime of doing so? Is that at least partially on target? Here’s my answer. I don’t have a choice. I… Read more »
First, thank you for your thoughtful response. I really do appreciate it.
You rephrasing of my question and the following analysis are spot on, bullseye in the ten ring. I only wish I had been so clear and concise from the beginning.
I know that the self improvement route and gaining a mastery of game are going to be essential unless I find
religion and join a monastery.
So let’s the intensity and anger of comments to be a mourning
Damn phone, continuing:
So let’s the intensity and anger of my comments to be a mourning period. Where I am mourning the children, wife, life I’ll never have. The lost of possibility, and potential hurts now only because in killing the inner Beta meant killing off some closely held hopes and dreams at the same time.
With the killing off of the old dreams…..new ones will appear…and they will be even better. Just give it time.
Steve H(arvey) I paraphrased. That’s why I used single marks ‘ instead of double “. Don’t misquoted my non quote.
Badpainter your outline of the catch 22 of it all really resonates.
Yep, found myself thinking… well, seems like the only way you can pull em easily is to convince yourself not to care. But if you manage to do that, why would you bother with em, beyond scratching an itch?
Same goes for keeping something going. Coolidge effect kicks in, wall’s approaching… meanwhile her hypergamy keeps on ratcheting…
And YOU gotta keep gaming HER?
D-Man, found the M-sphere aboot 2 years ago. Have been “gaming” (or maybe better put, putting in the effort to make my marriage happier) the wife for aboot 1.5 years now. Gotta say, things seem better, less bitch tests, more sex, accepting more of my decisions. Don’t know if it is the “game” or the fact that she is 51, and maybe her hormones are starting to decline. Whatever. But you are 100% right, it is fucking exhausting! Sometimes think it woud be better to just leave her and relax. But as the old saying goes, “the grass is always… Read more »
[…] On the female cooption of male space. […]
This comment of Walsh caught my eye: “I share the worry that university ratios are lopsided, and I am disgusted when feminists suggest this is a good thing – female power! No. I oppose competition between the sexes. We must cooperate. Neither sex can survive without the other!” http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2014/06/09/politics-and-feminism/manosphere-blogger-justifies-rape/#comment-1427707130 Of course she opposes competition between the sexes – organized feminism has already won complete victory, so no further competition is necessary. And she’s happy about it. She says feminists disgust her, but that doesn’t stop her from contributing to feminist hysteria about the alleged rape culture on American campuses: hookingupsmart.com/2014/04/30/politics-and-feminism/finally-meaningful-progress-against-sexual-assault/… Read more »
“My ex was a hard 9. Prom queen, homecoming queen – high smv, did she not deserve a high smv alpha male who treated her like a prize? And was a man worthy of such a prize? I know, speaking like this pisses some men off – I don’t give a fuck…” Glenn, you’re correct that men have to be their best selves. For themselves. But that doesn’t entitle any man to sex with a woman, any woman. No, your hard 9 ex wife did not “deserve” a high SMV alpha male. She didn’t and doesn’t “deserve” to be treated… Read more »
@Deti, I’m going to quote part of this for today’s post. A good counter question for the “men are not entitled to / do not deserve sex” trope is “Then what would you suggest a man should do if he wants to become intimate with a woman and get laid?” I guarantee you that 98% of the responses you receive will be some form of Just Be Yourself, or their interpretation of the same Beta identification Game the faux Nice Guys® (who really just wanna fuck because they think they’re “owed” sex) they despise have been told will make them… Read more »
“We must cooperate. Neither sex can survive without the other!””
Well with guff she’s emitting, I’ll die laughing.
Existential threat whistling round yer beef curtains and chilling them a bit nowadays, Sukie?
Sure knows how to make an old man happy lolllzllz
@Deti – I’m not sure that Glenn was claiming that, though he did omit additional criteria which I interjected and he then agreed with “provided that she has other (increasingly rare) qualities of femininity, grace, softness…qualities that aren’t directly tied to solely-physical appearance.” However I fully agree with you that neither men nor women are entitled to sex or commitment. That was a comment I had seen you’d written on another ‘Sphere site, and it’s a very important reminder. As to the strawman that our opponents have erected recently – I go back to ACIM: ‘we attack what we would… Read more »
@ deti – Your argumentation is the kind of tedious parsing which pervades the internet and is of no value. You make a distinction without a difference. I’m not writing an academic treatise, and if I wanted to, I could parse all the logic and wording of every comment here and show how it’s “wrong” – but I don’t do that because it adds no value. I never said women were entitled to anything – you are just making that up to go off on your rant. My point was that my failure to be masculine and alpha shortchanged my… Read more »
Rollo: When I say that a man isn’t entitled to sex, I’m talking here about single men operating in this environment; and increasingly, men who are married to women who deprive them of sex. I don’t want to get into the whole “married men are entitled to sex” thing because that’s beyond the scope of the point I’m trying to make. The point is that single men and single women aren’t entitled to anything — they have to earn what they want; prove themselves worthy of what they want. Yet, I constantly read posts and comments from disgruntled women stating… Read more »
@BadP – Wow, great response. Yes, the mourning period is tough. But it does end. And guess what? Deep down inside you there is an authentic you who is interested and passionate about things other than being a family man. One of the things I’ve done to re-ignite some of my passions is to revisit my childhood in my mind and try to remember what I dreamed about. I’m a victim of serious physical abuse and had PTSD and concommitant anxiety and sleep disorders from it by the time I was 8. I was not diagnosed at the time, obviously,… Read more »
I don’t see the disconnect between Glenn and Deti. Assuming the man values the woman’s non-physical qualities and wants her as a partner, he should understand the basic mechanics of her hypergamy. Hypergamy is not good or bad….it just is. Hence, the ability of the man to maintain frame and confidence is the oil that fuels the engine of the relationship and the family. Not every woman, even high SMV woman, is a crazy hypergamous con artist..and her positive qualities can make the man’s life much better than without..but hypergamy is a feature in every woman just as an engine… Read more »
Glenn: “I never said women were entitled to anything” OK, but you did say this: “My ex was a hard 9. Prom queen, homecoming queen – high smv, did she not deserve a high smv alpha male who treated her like a prize? No, she didn’t deserve a high SMV alpha. No, she didn’t deserve a man who treats her like a prize. She might be able to get those things on the open market, but that doesn’t mean she deserves them. The term “deserves” suggests worthiness. Others decide what we’re worthy of and have earned on the open SMV… Read more »
“A good counter question for the “men are not entitled to / do not deserve sex” trope is “Then what would you suggest a man should do if he wants to become intimate with a woman and get laid?”” “I guarantee you that 98% of the responses you receive will be some form of Just Be Yourself, or their interpretation of the same Beta identification Game the faux Nice Guys® (who really just wanna fuck because they think they’re “owed” sex) they despise have been told will make them attractive to women.” I suppose that could be, Rollo, but a… Read more »
I don’t see why not. It’s standard legislation that even in marriage a woman can be ‘raped’ if she’s forced by her husband to have sex against her will. There is no ‘entitlement’ to sex within marriage or out of it.
In other words, don’t ‘expect’ sex for anything.
“Then what would you suggest a man should do if he wants to become intimate with a woman and get laid?” Do daily disciplined inner work, get out of his house/apt, go out every night, make connections with women AND men, seek to give/help/inspire others, develop excellent social skills, create an abundant social circle, approach women with sexual intent, learn how to communicate direct sexual intent tactfully to women he finds attractive, offer women opportunities to hook up…and reach out to more knowledgeable male mentors the next day when/if SHTF and he needs pointers on where he screwed up. Rinse,… Read more »
re: “A good counter question for the “men are not entitled to / do not deserve sex” trope is “Then what would you suggest a man should do if he wants to become intimate with a woman and get laid?””
I unhelpfully suggest that the actual majority of responses from women would be: “Any man who has to ask such a question is should get no sex a tall.”
I am not a big fan of conspiracy theories but this invasion and subversion of the educational and religious institutions played out like a well orchestrated plan. The banning of all male groups was obviously their plan from the beginning. Unfortunately, the manosphere is following the same path to perdition.
On negotiated desire. Rollo is correct on this point as he almost always is but he misses an important fact.
Desire cannot be negotiated BUT it CAN be compelled or commanded. In fact it must be, and that is a missing element.
“I think it’s important that we don’t lose sight of the way men communicate, test each other, hone each other, give each other shit, etc. being primarily defined in the context of Bro Culture, douchebaggery, team sports, etc. That intra-male dynamic crosses so many social, racial and cultural strata it becomes an overarching threat to the Feminine Imperative.” This is what women who simply want to infiltrate don’t understand…that boys and men, when in a male-only or male-primary space, are different than when they are in the general public. The language is coarser, the jokes more sexual, the very ways… Read more »
What should a man do to get laid? Find a woman who wants to bang him. Some women like overweight, nerdy, gamers…go to comic/electronics/gaming conventions and make it known that you are looking for sex, not friendship. Some women like brawny muscle heads…go to the gym every night, drink protein shakes, get ripped and make it known you’re looking for sex, not friendship. Some women like slight, sensitive guys…dress in form flattering ways, write poetry/learn to play an instrument, go to coffeehouses or theaters and make it known that you’re looking for sex, not friendship. I don’t want to say… Read more »
@Rollo “In other words, don’t expect sex for anything.” The concept of rape in a marriage (or any long term relationship involving sex, I suppose) is a touchy subject. On the one hand, I know of women who use sexual access as a literal tool to manipulate their husbands. This is immature and unacceptable…if you care about someone enough to marry them or stick with them for years, you should *want* to make them happy and give them pleasure. I’ve never *not* desired sex, but I truly can’t imagine that it’s difficult to give a decent blowjob or mediocre intercourse… Read more »
@ Tarnished – “The concept of rape in a marriage (or any long term relationship involving sex, I suppose) is a touchy subject” – What the fuck are you talking about? It isn’t touchy, it’s rape. I’ve been in a marriage where foreplay was reduced to 2 hours of begging and pleading. My most – and last – pathetic moment with her was when I said, at age 29, “Just let me fuck you and I’ll stop bothering you”. BETA, BETA, BETA, BETA, BETA, BETA, BETA, BETA, BETA, BETA. That was my moment, and I stopped. I actually then started… Read more »
@Glenn Thank you. I agree with you, in that rape is rape…forcing sex on someone else is disgusting and revolting (which I thought I made clear in my last paragraph…apologies if it didn’t come through that way?). To be honest, I only phrased it the way I did because I am usually called something along the lines of a cock-teasing whore or manipulative bitch when I say that marital rape is a real issue. I’ve been accused not only of being a feminist, but of thinking it’s acceptable for men to be stuck in sexless relationships. I am not and… Read more »
@Glenn Just wanted to note that I also agree with you that certain parts of the manosphere (but definitely not all) can be very misogynistic and gynophobic. For someone like myself, who is not only gender dysphoric but also cares a great deal about the men and boys in their life, I interact with these blogs to get more information about how to help my friends and brothers navigate such a fem-centric culture. Some of it I agree with, some of it I don’t, some of it is pure anger and sexism without logic behind it. It seems I’ve ingested… Read more »
Sorry if my response was kind of brash before. It was a major shock to my system to be called out for sounding like a rape apologist…Had to go wash after that. Looking forward to possibly hearing more from you.
Why is this “disturbing”? The charts reflect normal expectations, their results should not surprise anyone, they are already blatantly self evident without “research”. Let’s analyze this from a productive positive point of view. The charts are based on the average cross section of males and females participating with “OKCupid”. There are two characteristics about “OKCupid” participants we can safely assume are factual. (1) “OKCupid” participants are unable or unwilling to meet and form relationships with people in their daily lives and hook up, so…THEY CHOOSE to resort to “internet dating”. (2) “OKCupid” participants are physically representative of the average population.… Read more »
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. If what you suggest is true about women primarily wanting to be the first woman what explains the 2-nth woman to do something. I agree women are uncomfortable with male only spaces but that does not explain all that we are seeing. Women have their own interests beyond the feminine imperative just like I do. I agree that woman like to invade male spaces but sometimes they just want to play golf. No doubt once in a “club” they try to feminize it. Women are taking over some professions like medicine. They work… Read more »
[…] Male Space […]
[…] have come out of it since rarely do men get a chance to talk openly and honestly with other men in male-only spaces. Women have taken our fraternal lodges, our barbershops, our bars, and now our UN sanctioned gender […]
[…] that is deemed as restrictive is seen as limiting this choice, male spaces, employment obstacles, undesirable attention, unsafe neighbourhoods, male aesthetic standards, […]
[…] vegyük észre azonban, hogy ezzel erdőn, mezőn, Isten szabad ege alatt egy férfitér („male space”) képződött, ahol feltételezhetően erőforrások vannak, viszont nincsenek nők. HALLATLAN […]
[…] this is often the first offense women take when they insert themselves into Male Spaces. They take the ‘shit talk’ personally, or at the very least have to make an effort […]
[…] for female friends. If given the opportunity, women will always invade male space simply for the express need for social control and male oversight as well as policing the inherent male dynamics and attitude. Take Doris for example. Once she […]
[…] possible? Here is the truth about women entering male spaces. Long story short: women ruin them. Male Space | Reply Reply With […]
[…] Oh, what a scamp he is, but he’s happy to accommodate you if you want to join his male space. […]
[…] Male Space I made this […]
[…] From Male Space: […]
[…] comedies) all represent the jealous need to retell and rehash in a way that denies and discredits Male Space. The attempts (like Star Wars) are feeble retellings of exactly the same stories with women […]
[…] that participate in formerly Red Pill married forums follow this invasion into that previously male space and then turn it to similar […]
[…] far more sexy and attention holding. It’s important to remember that Nerd-Space used to be a Male Space that was infiltrated and co-opted by the Feminine Imperative. This infiltration is really standard […]
[…] invested Blue Pill mindsets with regard to women. Many of them eventually invited women into their male space as co-hosts to help with appealing to the female demographic, and like all other “female […]
i always wondered why is it that its ok for females to use males washroom and womens washrooms use by men is prohibited
[…] just marginally rewarding set apart from their unrewarding spouse. And even in this attempt at Male Space, women feel entitled to insert themselves into it or do something […]
Become a Muslim (and there’s a lot of room for different versions) and you will always be in a good “male space”. Western humanity is doomed.
Islam exploits men’s sexual nature for its own violent ends. Christianity has become feminized and similarly exploits men’s sexual nature to serve the Feminine Imperative.
[…] made this point in Male Space, but what happens when women insert themselves into a traditionally male dominated domain is that […]
Rollo, you touched upon some really good ideas but there is one that also needs considering in regards to feminine imperative’s surveillance. The real reason why women want to invade male spaces is because, women have to make sure that Alphas and Betas have the least amount of possibilities of interacting with each other. If they were to meet, and exchange tips, experiences and strategies, women would be absolutely screwed. The Betas could potentially learn what Alphas do to get laid,, and what women hate more than anything in this world is a former Beta guy now getting unplugged and… Read more »
[…] In our modern corporate culture we’ve seen a meta-scale enforcement of what I termed Overseers in the Locker Room in my essay, Male Space: […]
[…] in an age where men are shamed for masculinity, an age in which women will force themselves into male space as overseers, an age where men will adaptively define masculinity to mean whatever suits their […]
[…] men do” – in a conventionally masculine way – is always misogynistic. Thus, we see overseers in the locker room, if only symbolically, to regulate what and how men communicate with each […]
[…] Rollo Tomassi explained in his essay Male Space, women enter a male-only group once it’s been established for the purpose of obtaining special […]
In regards to men testing each, giving each other shit as you put is a culture of bullying men who engage in this behavior are sociopaths not alpha males.
Misunderstanding intrasexual testing and conflating male dominance hierarchies with ‘bullying’ is the first reflex of a guy conditioned to think in a feminized mindset. This is exactly what a feminine-primary social order wants you to believe because the more confused you are about conventional masculinity the easier you are to control and categorize as a Beta provider.
Women never compromise on female only spaces – where men are not allowed unless he’s Alpha God, and even the alpha god is off bounds for anything else other than sex. Any man who tries to end up in a female only space gets to be treated like a guy who accidentally stepped into the ladies bathroom. The presence of a woman in a male space immediately puts significant restraints on male freedom. If Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus is correct, when men actively pull away to a male space, women experience it as a kind… Read more »
[…] women feel an obsessive need to either join and assimilate, or outright destroy male-exclusive (Male Space) organizations while insisting on the gender-exclusivity of their own, look no further than their […]
[…] form of respect works for women. One reason women (the Feminine Imperative) insists on assimilating Male Space is in order to restructure it to have access to this male form of respectability. The problem is […]
[…] Rational Male: Male Space (2014 June […]