There’s an interesting discussion that’s been belabored in the manosphere for a while now, that of traditionally “male spaces” being infiltrated by women and / or being redefined by feminized restructuring. The modern, western, workplace is the easiest example of this, but whether it’s the recent inclusion of women in the formerly all-male membership of Augusta Golf Club, or the lifting of the ban on women (and accommodating their prevalent physical deficits) being in combat roles in the military, the message ought to be clearer to red pill men; the feminine imperative has a vested interest in inserting itself into every condition of male exclusivity.
Whether this condition is an all male club or cohort (gender segregated team sports for example) or a personal state that is typically attributed only to the masculine – characteristic strength, rationality, decisiveness, risk taking, even brashness or vulgarity – the Feminine Imperative encourages women to insert themselves, and by association the Feminine Imperative itself, into masculine exclusivity. Scout Willis’ (Bruce Willis’ daughter) most recent ‘activism’ to encourage female equality by going topless in public is an example of this female-to-male parity (google it) – in an equalist utopia, if men can do it, women should be able to as well.
The First Woman
This push into male space is rarely due to a true desire to belong to a traditionally all-male institution or condition, but women are encouraged to believe they’ll make some dent in the universe simply by being the first to push past a “gender barrier.” It’s not about making a true contribution to that male institution or endeavor, but rather a goal of being ‘the first woman to do it too’.
For all of the misdirections of a hoped for equalism, it’s not about becoming an astronaut for a woman, but rather becoming the first woman–astronaut – then moving on to being the first woman assigned to a combat role in the military, then the first woman to play at Augusta. If equalism were the real intent, we could expect the desire of the endeavor itself would supersede this, but the Feminine Imperative motivates women (and socially demotivates men’s resistance) to the first woman goal, not the actual accomplishment or excellence in that accomplishment or endeavor. The trail being blazed is less important than being the first woman trailblazer – in fact it can simply be the same trail men blazed centuries before and still be recognized as a significant accomplishment.
The goal is to be a woman in male space.
The cover story is the same trope the Feminine Imperative (and its social arm, feminism) always finds useful; the never ending push towards gender equalism. The practice however reveals the push into male space serves two purposes – social control and male oversight.
Social control is the easier of the two to grasp. Even when changing the rules of an all-male game to accommodate a lack of genuine female interest in a male endeavor, it fundamentally alters the nature of that game. The first woman allowed participation in that game is novelty enough to extend the Feminine Imperative’s social control into that male space (i.e. “nowadays women do it too”).
An easy example of this would be NASCAR’s embracing a driver like Danica Patrick. It’s not that she’s an exceptional driver, and I can’t vouch for her genuine passion for NASCAR, but the social control she represents is that she is the first woman to (dubiously) be taken seriously in the nominally all-male space of NASCAR drivers. The goal has been achieved, all that’s left now is female oversight of this male space.
Overseers in the Locker Room
The second purpose in the goal of female inclusion into male space is really a policing of the thought dynamics and attitudes of the men in that space. When women are allowed access to the locker room the dynamic of the locker room changes. The locker room can take many different shapes: the workplace environment, the sports team, the group of all-male coders, the primarily male scientific community, the ‘boys club’, the group of gamer nerds at the local game store, even strip clubs and the sanctuary you think your ‘man cave’ is – the context is one of women inserting themselves into male space in order to enforce the dictates of feminine social primacy.
When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting maintaining the former level of interest in the endeavor.
Men unaccustomed to having women in their midst generally react in two ways; According to their proper feminized conditioning, they embrace the opportunity to impress these ‘trailblazing’ women (hoping to be found worthy of intimacy) with their enthusiastic acceptance of, and identification with, their feminine overseer(s), or they become easy foils of an “out moded” way of thinking that the new ‘in-group’ happily labels them with.
Once the feminine-primary in-group dynamic is established a ‘feminine correct’ social frame follows. This feminine correction restructures the priorities of goals, and validates any accomplishments, in terms of how they reflect upon the feminine as a whole. Thus any in-group success is perceived as a feminine success in male space, while in-group failures or simple mediocrity is either dismissed entirely or blamed on out-group men’s failure to comply with, or the rejection of, the Feminine Imperative’s ‘correcting’ influence on the in-group.
‘Bro Culture’
When I was writing The Apologists I briefly delved into the topic of Bro Culture. It seems that a constantly self-reinventing feminism loves to attach “culture” to the end of anything it sees as threatening – Rape Culture, Male culture of privilege, and of course Bro Culture. Make no mistake, the concept of Bro Culture is an operative feminine social convention. It may be convenient to think of the stereotype of Bro Culture as a male creation, but this convention is the direct result of the Feminine Imperative’s controlling need to insert itself into male spaces.
There are other feminine social conventions with the same latent purpose, but the ‘Bro Culture’ meme is really a dual purpose shaming tactic intended to restrict and control traditional male bonding while also fostering infighting amongst in-group and out-group men once feminine influence has been established in a formerly all-male space.
One of the most threatening aspects of conventional masculinity for the Feminine Imperative is the cooperative potential of male bonding. When only men comprise an in-group, team building, common purpose and a masculine-primary environment tend to define that group. I would argue that the modern insertion of feminine influence into all male spaces is a concerted effort to limit this bonding and unity in favor of a feminine-primary ‘correctness’.
This limitation may not be directly influenced by a present female; often all that’s needed to foster feminine-primary correctness is a feminine-identifying male in the in-group (anonymous White Knight), or even just a prevailing attitude of not wanting to offend the suspicions that other in-group men may subscribe to this feminine-identifying influence for fear it may get back to a woman they perceive may have authority.
Infighting
From The Apologists:
This is the hallmark of a feminized Beta mindset – to believe that “guys being guys” is inherently aberrant. It’s something other guys do. I could go into detail about how men giving each other shit is an evolutionary (and useful) vestige of tribalism and how men would use this “challenging” to ensure the strength and survivability of the collective, but this will only grate against his ‘gender-as-social-construct’ belief.
This discomfort with ‘being a guy’ is the root disposition of many high-functioning Betas, and particularly those seeking to better identify with the feminine in the hopes it will pay off in sexual dividends. These are the guys who never ‘got it’ that shit talking and locker room jabs (the same male space invaded by the feminine) are intended not just to determine masculine fitness, but to foster living, building and measuring up to a better masculine standard that benefits both the individual man and the collective of humanity.
The fact that ‘Bro Culture’ is even a term, or the go-to archetypal examples of it begins with stereotypical jocks, “douchebags” and team sport locker rooms, illustrates the threat to which male-exclusive forms of communication poses to the Feminine Imperative. If male space can be co-opted in the name of gender equalism, it’s far easier to restrict that male communication and influence it to encourage a sense of responsibility towards feminine-primary security needs. In other words, it’s a much easier task to create future Beta providers if a feminine influence can pervade all male spaces – this is facilitated all the better when it is men themselves who hold other men accountable to the dictates of the Feminine Imperative and feminine sexual strategies.
I think it’s important that we don’t lose sight of the way men communicate, test each other, hone each other, give each other shit, etc. being primarily defined in the context of Bro Culture, douchebaggery, team sports, etc. That intra-male dynamic crosses so many social, racial and cultural strata it becomes an overarching threat to the Feminine Imperative.
It’s an easy task to set men against each other when they perceive sexual rivals to be part of an out-group, and feminine influence in male space fosters this passive (sometimes active) infighting amongst men. Disrupting male bonding, or even the potential for it, limits men’s potential to unify in their own interests and their own imperatives. There are many in-group examples of all male space where this infighting and resentment plays out – it’s important to understand that male-exclusive forms of communication, testing, encouragement and shit talking, are in no way limited to just the locker room. Even guys in the chess club will give each other shit – at least until the Feminine Imperative inserts itself there.
Resisting the Influence
I can’t end this post without drawing attention to the all male meta-space that has become the gestalt of the manosphere. The manosphere is male space writ large and a testament to what men can do when they come together, share experience and put their minds to a common purpose. The methods may vary, but the desire to collectivize male experience for the benefit of other men is a meta-scale form of male bonding.
And as should be expected, there will be resistance to that communication and bonding on a comparatively meta-scale by the Feminine Imperative and the men and women who subscribe to it. I should also add that a very obvious attempt on women’s inclusion into red pill ideology, theory and practice is also a move by the feminine into a male space with much of the same purpose I’ve outlined here – social control and female oversight of it.
Even the most well meaning of women involved (however peripherally) in the manosphere are still motivated by their innate security needs – and those hypergamous security needs imply a want for certainty and control. As such the psychological influence of the Feminine Imperative will always be a predominant motivator in their participation in this all male space. This leads women to a want to sanitize Game to fit the purposes of the imperative, as well as oversee the thought processes of the men who come to participate in it.
Just like any other male space, the manosphere is subject to all the sanitization efforts of the Feminine Imperative I’ve outlined in this post – by both women and men who still ascribe to feminine-primacy.
[…] Male Space […]
This is why Hillary Clinton will be our next president. Anyone who runs against her will be overshadowed by the “groundbreaking opportunity” of having the first ever female president. Even though this has already happened in other countries, here it will be the primary focus of the media and outweigh any of the platforms either candidate chooses.
Overseers in the corporate locker room = the huwoman resources department
Resisting the Influence = give zero credibility to anything the feminine or plugged-in white knight says in the manosphere – the evidence is irrefutable
Another great post Rollo. I’m sure you have gotten plenty of e-mails from irate women who like to talk about how they would totally be down with this “Red Pill” stuff if only men were nicer and more accommodating and you get the picture.
Male space replaced with Masculine voice that calls into the most influential radio show in the world: http://bit.ly/1rJqeal It sounds like it’s just another radio listener calling in, but note how many key words match what you’ve read here and ROK about the E.R. (Elliot Rodger) script you hear in the monologue of the Psychologist. Why does it matter? This show feeds most others that create the global conversation.
It’s just a few years until women demand to be allowed into the NFL, NHL, Premiership and so on, and they’ll be accommodated.
In my opinion; if you’re watching professional sports, you’re part of the problem. If you pay to see Hollywood movies, you’re part of the problem. If you watch TV, you’re part of the problem.
What is their Endgame?
@Nathan, I see you didn’t read my first tweet this morning…
For men, hanging out with men is about being friends, usually with men who are more or less on the same plane, with common interests.
For women, hanging out with men – whether it’s one Alpha or a formerly exclusive men’s club – is about demonstrating social proof to other women by hanging out with higher status men.
Women don’t belong in a men’s club or men’s locker room because they aren’t there to be friends. They are only there for gaining and showing status and as a result, they tend to fuck it all up.
I tried to start a men’s group a couple of years ago. Not an “Iron John” baby boomer group but a place where men could safely rant against what we call the Matrix. The format was each guy gets a minute (with the help of a kitchen timer) to say his piece on a particular topic. We had one session, which was really great, but I did not have enough numbers/contacts to sustain it for long. Guys in a relationships often will take serious shit from their wives for participating in such a group. Guys not in relationships worry about… Read more »
This is why I’ve taken the existence of the so-called Red Pill women with extreme scepticism: they’re just another intrusion of women into a male space. Yeah, try to feminise our spaces, whydontcha. Just so you can claim “first!” or one of the first. It becomes a pathetic case of me-too herdism. It’s also why I’ve not had much problem with calling them out on their bullshit and ripping them a new one online, too. Even if it might seem cruel to pick on them. They’re in a male space, deal with it, don’t try to play the “poor little… Read more »
I guess the complaint about golf is old hat, but for me it was one of the first wake up calls for me that something weird was going on. It seemed to happen all at once in the late ’90s or early 2000s, like one season a woman golfer was like a unicorn and the next they were sprinkled in like a fun retardant system. My friends and I would play public courses, and we would really cut up while we played. It wasn’t uncommon for some curse words to fly, or some raunchy talk, and for someone to be… Read more »
There is no such thing as a true Red Pill woman.
IOW, TITS or GTFO
http://imgur.com/a/onNyp
[…] Male Space (The Rational Male) […]
I looked Rollo, but didn’t see an obvious one. On the mobile so I may be missing something
“What is their Endgame?” This is a personally theory of mines and while it’s cynical, I’ve seen this time and time again with my own dealings with women. I believe their endgame is to destroy. Hear me out on this. A woman, at her very core, is a self destructive human being. I’ve dated women from all socioeconomic backgrounds and the behavior is always there. It shouldn’t come as a surprise that women crave drama but the extend to which they go to achieve this stimulation, is something most men wouldn’t think about. A woman will destroy her family, spouse,… Read more »
Ah, I see:
Yes, All Men
By CHARLES M. BLOW
June 1, 2014
As I drove my son back to college last week, where he’ll take a summer chemistry course, he said something that struck me: “I believe it’s very important for everyone to be a feminist.”
Thank you for all your work Rollo
@Nathan, this is the endgame: There is unrest in the forest There is trouble with the trees For the maples want more sunlight And the oaks ignore their pleas The trouble with the maples (And they’re quite convinced they’re right) They say the oaks are just too lofty And they grab up all the light But the oaks can’t help their feelings If they like the way they’re made And they wonder why the maples Can’t be happy in their shade There is trouble in the forest And the creatures all have fled As the maples scream ‘Oppression!’ And the… Read more »
http://m.laweekly.com/2008-01-24/news/the-gender-boondoggle/ This is the result of forced inclusion. Millions blown on adhering to the feminine imperative. Never mind thousands of men go through and pass successfully without applause…women sign up, and fail, and are heralded as the second coming of Amelia Earhart…famous for failing, never in history will a man get the same treatment. Trying doesn’t make it into history books, unless you’re female. Worth noting, the endeavor has to have some kind of cool attention grabbing cred like firefighter, cop, racecar driver, fighter pilot, marine, etc. You will never hear about female coal miners, semi truck drivers, longshore fisher”women,”… Read more »
@Nathan @Rollo
I thought it was the Rush lyrics tweet.
But first tweet of the morning may be different from my time zone.
Also, the link posted above is SFW, and shows an attempt at feminist shaming by a “girl” with a couple of unapologetic responses by 4chan b/tards explaining the true meaning of TITS or GTFO. Again, SFW.
http://imgur.com/a/onNyp
@Glenn, re: “they were sprinkled in like a fun retardant system.”
Thus we have arrived at the non-reproductive purpose of women.
There are still plenty of public, including publically-funded, all-female spaces. These include all-female nursing areas from which bottle-feeding men are forcibly excluded by laws and/or regulation, all-female domestic violence safe areas from which all males are forcibly excluded by law, all-female “family” housing from which all males over the age of 13 are forcibly excluded by law, all-female rest-stop areas from which yadda yadda, all-female fitness centers (including in government buildings) from which ditto, and all-female locker/dressing areas (including in government buildings).
There are 2 simple solutions to preventing female infiltration as far as blogs go. Ban women commenters and Ban men who reply to them. All credit goes to roosh for the idea: http://www.returnofkings.com/30942/you-will-be-banned-if-you-reply-to-a-female-commenter For physical spaces you may be able to use the creep factor of women against them. That is the instant that the women enter, they get swamped by creepy men. Or you can employ a strength test in order to enter. That is: the individual has to be strong enough to force their way through the door and only one person can do it at a time.… Read more »
I think this whole women into male spaces is just a form of increasing reproductive opportunity for women. Seeing as they love opportunistically, any large group of men hanging around, has ancestrally(tribal times of 50-100 members) had a very high opportunity to find a suitable male. That’s like the whole tribe, with all the men, gathering at once at your disposal. Missing out on such a big reproductive opportunity makes it even more important to apply all the available tactics at your disposal(shaming, misogyny, etc.) just to get in. It’s like missing out on the biggest party on campus. Also… Read more »
Whatever the motivation to invade male spaces women have just about killed civil society. In the recent past on entering a small town there was the ubiquitous sign “Welcome to Somewhere USA” surrounded by the seals of the civic organizations in that town. The Elks, Moose, Lions, Rotary, Free Masons, etc. were where men gathered to create the local culture and establishing the local hierarchy. Today those institutions are all but dead. Killed by the invasion of women, electronic entertainments, and a macro culture that insists upon churning the local population through never ending work relocations. All of those things… Read more »
Just as women SHOULD be allowed to participate in whatever they want, men SHOULD be allowed their own privacy and exclusivity, just like women are allowed.
The 21stC is rife with examples of female exclusivity; women-only swim sessions; exclusive gyms etc etc. For the sake of not being ogled by red-blooded males.
The main hypocrisy that extreme feminism appears to assume is that women should be afforded the same rights as men, where men should be denied all rights of exclusivity, just as women have been.
It’s “space-rape”.
The minute women invade male space, men stop cooperating in their collective best interest and start competing against each other for sexual favor. The more “traditionally male” the space is, the more men there are competing for the woman’s attention. Of course, women love it. Women will find security by aligning themselves with the alphas of the space and by showing him the “special feminine sympathies” he will not get from other men. He will protect her at all costs, no matter how crappy her performance is, or how little she adds to the collective endeavor at hand. Daddy takes… Read more »
White men are too often white women pedestalizers, enablers and pussy beggars. And white women have been used over decades to bring down their men and western society. It is amazing what social engineering through financial incentives can do. Whites benefitted only because their elite saw they were rewarded – not because they were inherently smarter. They still Do have privilege when compared to millions of non-whites who suffer from Western economic policies and military inventions. Heck, the culture still enables white men, though their status as a group has been diminished. Despite this, no one wants the white race… Read more »
Speaking of all-female areas (which I was), my wife is prolific on Pinterest, in which, I believe, 99.4% of collecting is done by women. However, about half her followers are men, who enthuse about her photos of baked good, or make recommendations about arrangements of figurines, etc.
> and those hypergamous security needs imply a want for certainty and control.
King Kong (movie)
It’s about a woman, who controls a superstrong male with the power of her beauty.
True this.
I was dumbfounded in the early 80’s when I was told by HR that in the race for promotions I would compete carrying a figurative bag of cement. But I took it as a challenge and ran harder. I was passed over several times, but over the years when the really big jobs came up, I got them.
Today, although the competence of the favored groups has caught up, the handicapping remains. No longer will running harder make a difference.
No wonder so many of us at best simply give up, or at worst, go postal.
It is a certainty that the feminist movement is a sexist supremacist movement that seeks to pathologize male heterosexuality in order to control males using the law and social pressure. Note how feminist and liberal women identity with and support gay males, who are far more openly sexual, but only with other males. When hetero men act towards women like gay men do with other gay men, they are “pigs” and “disgusting” and “only think about getting sex” and “objectifying women as sex toys” and participating in “rape culture”. But when gay males do it to other men openly, a… Read more »
Another funded conversation embedded through the perception management machine: ONLY MEN CHEAT … “It’s a choice to cheat” That’s ‘justification’ for the negation of space – as heard on the show that all popular shows copy: http://bit.ly/1ovdLBA
I’m skeptical of the notion of men’s clubs in popular culture, such as gaming, golfing or whatever the activity is. For example, the gaming space isn’t controlled by men, it’s controlled by gamers, gamers in the early days were mostly men so the culture in gaming is just so. If you want to JOIN another culture then you should be respectful of it otherwise that culture will be hostile to you (Looking at you Anita). You DO NOT get to stake a claim to something you didn’t build, males built the male gaming culture and we’ll protect it at all… Read more »
I got this post coming about “Signals”. And a big part of the information that I am using on the subject comes from The Tyranny of Ambiguity by Simon Shepard. It is a massive subject. But Simon lists a long group of Signals emitted by women, particularly in a “sexual” situation in order to elicit an action from a male. And the thrust of it all is quite complicated in that the signal is intended to be ambiguous in order to both test the male and to induce a neurosis to increase the difficulty and cost of sex to the… Read more »
@MM, although I can confirm that women continually emit Challenge signals towards me, I can’t believe Sheppard has anything useful to me to say about that topic.
The appropriate response to women telling men to “man up” is to ask them just what the fuck would they know about being a man?
I took a lot of flak in commenting on ‘The Apologists’; let me try this again with the same core principles but from a different angle, and taking care to comment on specific things you’ve written in this new piece… There’s nothing in here that I disagree with. So I’ll also emphasize where I strongly agree. But I think there’s an incomplete picture that doesn’t accurately depict the modern-day landscape of – and I’ll make this distinction – an unfortunately large number of *urban* and *semi-urban* male spaces in the *Western World* (I wouldn’t say that’s true in Latin America,… Read more »
I’m surprised at the level of anti-female comments in the comment section. I really don’t think that women are as predatory, vampiric and Borg like as some fellow readers of Mr Tomassi’s normally excellent blog. Women often feel inferior to men, and the suffer in varying degrees with what might be called ‘short-man syndrome.’ Women are trying to elbow their way in to traditional male spaces to allay their constant feelings of inferiority. Just as a small man will strut, bully and brag as a compensatory mechanism, women want to force their way into male spaces. Once membership in elite… Read more »
Minter’s post is spot on. A woman is only satisfied when her challenges are rebuffed in non-qualifed fashion. This satisfies her hypergamy. The denial must be stern, calm and resolute without an attempt to appeal to reason. Any deviation from that stance will open the floodgates. Everything still comes down to frame, frame, frame.
Let me state for the record that I’ve never considered this blog or my comment sections an all-male space. In fact I’ve always, and will continue to invite female readers to comment here in an unmoderated format because I believe that the strengths of an idea are determined by how well it withstands critical review. Most of my regular readers already know this, however, although I don’t delete comments (except spam) it doesn’t mean those comments and the ideas therein wont be subject to critical review themselves. This is what I think makes most female readers believe that the manosphere… Read more »
@Elle Bee “Careful readers may well be thinking at this point that I’ve rather made Rollo’s point for him that women are trying to infiltrate the manosphere to slowly and subtly steer the movement in ways more agreeable to the Feminine Imperative.”
Correct. I’m reminded of the influx of women reporters in men’s lockerrooms. The *men* had to change their behaviors to be more acceptable to the women. The *rules* had to change (e.g. waiting periods) to be “fair” to women since the *women* didn’t want to be exposed to right away.
We do that all the time with elderly people etc, it’s called ‘being polite’ Yes, but the elderly cannot take you to court for “sexual harassment” if you drop “fuck” into your conversations, or tell a dirty joke at work. The ONLY reason ordinary men who aren’t pussy whipped defer to female social sensibilities on the job is their enforcement through one sided abusive and sexist laws that favor them over men by catering to their sensitivities as the default standard of societal operation. That’s supremacy, not equality. Since women are to be equal, we need to be demanding that… Read more »
Sorry, long post, I was gripped by this and so many other posts and stories here and felt compelled to respond in full. It’s amazing how every time Rollo writes one of these I am immediately exposed to the FI media that only further brings his argument into sharper relief. I agree that the FI has persistently invaded male space, to the detriment of all, and of course it’s utterly hypocritical in that they can have “safe female space” but we cannot have “exclusive male space”. Rollo is dead on with the reasoning that “no this is not some explicit… Read more »
Women often feel inferior to men, and the suffer in varying degrees with what might be called ‘short-man syndrome.’ Well, if it’s the truth, they are better off dealing with the truth honestly and not being coddled like children. When men feel inferior to other stronger or taller men, they are told “tough shit” essentially and to get it together. IOW, they have to PROVE themselves and not ask for special considerations. The little short dude in the Army Rangers had to meet the same standard as the big tall men. Women should have to as well. Why should it… Read more »
What is their Endgame? Female Utopia, where women are superior to men but all the men still remain attractive to them while serving the women’s needs. However, once the walls have been breached so to speak, women who have no genuine interest in the club’s raison d’etre will leave, leaving only a handful of women who really do like the sport, political views of the club. While I disagree that this will happen (women will try to change it so that more women will have a genuine interest in the raison d’être and this will then drive the men away… Read more »
I was dumbfounded in the early 80′s when I was told by HR that in the race for promotions I would compete carrying a figurative bag of cement. But I took it as a challenge and ran harder. I was passed over several times, but over the years when the really big jobs came up, I got them. I was informed at my last “Full Time Employee” Joe job that I was “the wrong gender” if I was seeking any kind of promotion into management. This was told to me by a (sic) sympathetic female manager who gave it to… Read more »
@Nathan What is their Endgame? They do not have a conscious one. There is no master plan. However, that’s not an answer, because there’s clearly a direction even if no one recognizes a specific “endgame”. What is it that everyone wants? Well, everyone, that includes you and I, want all strengths and no weaknesses. It sucks to get tired every day and have to sleep. It sucks to have to eat or die. It sucks to need to hydrate. Frankly, if you want to be a free man, it sucks to have to breathe, because you’re limited to a thin-skin… Read more »
This is the endgame:
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/06/04/feminists-loathe-male-desire/
Feminism thrives in an climate of atomized men, alienated from shared values. Even informal all-male group activities invite shaming. Explicitly exclusive men’s groups (e.g the Mankind project) are so out-there they are considered deviant and are maligned by the MM. Groups of men sharing collective interests are a no-no.
“Women are trying to elbow their way in to traditional male spaces to allay their constant feelings of inferiority. Just as a small man will strut, bully and brag as a compensatory mechanism, women want to force their way into male spaces. Once membership in elite male clubs, sporting or otherwise opens up to women. You’ll witness in the first year of so an influx of women into the clubs etc. However, once the walls have been breached so to speak, women who have no genuine interest in the club’s raison d’etre will leave, leaving only a handful of women… Read more »
A great example of Seraph’s point:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57978283-78/women-ordain-lds-discussion.html.csp
I apologize to any Mormons, but it I believe it’s only men who take it upon themselves to ride around on bikes in ill fitting Blues Brothers suits during hot summers for 2 years of “missionary” work before they’re even permitted to breed, much less participate in the ‘priesthood’.
@Nathan @Jeremy There IS an end game. Since I literally died this year, I no longer bother explaining that end game to people that waste any life moments watching TV, sports, news and so on. It’s futile attempting to explain the unlimited resources that create cultures, manage perceptions control conversations and the course of human events. Even the popularity of this space is 100% managed and controlled. No I do not believe in conspiracy theories, teams script them in similar ways that ‘news’ ”sports’ popular songs and best-selling fiction novels are scripted. Everything you can think of (and what you’ve… Read more »
Hey, what if the story of Adam and Even in the Bible isn’t meant to be taken literally, but is a metaphor about a woman got exactly what she wanted, and as a result f***ed everything all up?
Rollo @ 1:40 PM you have it right.
This is all about controlling male heterosexual desire to female ends.
Feminism is a Supremacist Hate movement directed at hetero men. You can tell by how they talk about them.
“The second purpose in the goal of female inclusion into male space is really a policing of the thought dynamics and attitudes of the men in that space. When women are allowed access to the locker room the dynamic of the locker room changes.” Candidly, this is one of the main reasons I retreated from the sphere. Primarily, my motivations for being in the sphere were under suspicion by enough posters to offer pause and make me reconsider the value of what I was contributing (I’m not going to justify my own existence, I can spend my time very constructively… Read more »
Feminism is a Supremacist Hate movement directed at hetero men. You can tell by how they talk about them.
Yes, quite so. As somebody else above mentioned, we need to ensure that it gets re-branded into exactly this image. Any feminist drivel should get this accusation thrown at them, without pity or remorse. No quarter given nor received.
@Mark Minter – you are giving powerful ammo to the argument that the best weapon a man has against all manner of complex coquettery is a mildly amused, mildly benevolent indifference achieved via certainty of abundant options available to him, rendering him carefree about all manifestations of her baldly-deconstructed neediness.
@Liz, a woman’s point of view about men is, I think, always valuable for something.
@Rollo re: endgame. I agree with you and Heartiste about this, and I’ve been saying it.
Liz, a woman’s point of view about men is, I think, always valuable for something.
Indeed.
If the endgame is only about controlling male sexual desire, then why the pretense of women being the equal of man? That’s counterproductive as no man wants an equal, they want their complement. There’s more to it than controlling male sexual desire, but certainly controlling male sexual desire is what they’re best at.
Jeremy – because: http://sfglobe.com/?id=903 Because there is no commensurate complement for men when women concurrently become masculinized and are seen for what they really are. Layers of deception are built from the ground up. When you get caught in a lie, you lie again, and again, until you forget exactly what was the original truth that ‘needed’ to be obfuscated. Add that to Roissy’s point today about how middling to unattractive women ‘needed’ to make communist the SMP – such that 70-80% of women (including, of course, themselves) aren’t excluded from ‘having it all’ as they should otherwise be, and… Read more »
As a rule, I don’t watch television, but I had been enjoying American Ninja Warrior until two nights ago, when Kacy Catanzaro became the FIRST WOMAN EVER to make it up the Warped Wall (along with… 20 men in the same evening, and hundreds before in previous seasons of the show). Kacy’s boyfriend Brent Steffensen failed the same course immediately after. The shamed look Kacy gave Brent as he climbed out, dripping wet from the pool of water beneath the obstacle that bested him, spoke volumes. In a final ironic twist, Brent was still qualified to move on to the… Read more »
These counter-arguments to my comment seem clumsy and overly-elaborate. Certainly the easier argument is that women covet the complementary strengths of men, and seek to have those strengths given to them with none of the weaknesses. They don’t want to be men, but they wish to see themselves as owning/having the strength of men, while also being in control of the SMP (as they naturally are when young). Why pretend women are the equal of men, unless your point is that women do indeed already posess all male strengths? Why legislate all manner of accommodation to hide female weaknesses if… Read more »
@SGT – The appropriate response to women telling men to “man up” is to ask them just what the fuck would they know about being a man?
Another one is an amused: “Tits or GTFO.” At least the attention-whore will be getting what she wants: attention.
@Rollo – the reason I’m not always over-the-top vs women in here is because this is your space and you’ve always made it plain that women are welcome in it.
@Lucasbly, I don’t watch at all, but I looked at the clips. The petite Kacy looked overwhelmed and awkward and weak and tentative, while the taller Brent looked a lot stronger and more coordinated. For example, Kacy didn’t get on the net thingie unti 1:10 but Brent was on there by 0:35. He was literally twice as good as she was. Maybe he wasn’t supposed to show her up so much, or something.
Jeremy- “They don’t want to be men, but they wish to see themselves as owning/having the strength of men, while also being in control of the SMP (as they naturally are when young).” Cargo Cult Masculinity: The feminine desire have claim for themselves those traits of men they find most desirable without the prerequisite understanding of how those traits are obtained, nor understanding that those traits have different meanings and value to men. Women believe by obtaining these traits they can alleviate the inherent insecurity, anxiety, and fear that comes with being a woman. This always fails because: 1. The… Read more »
@Bad Forbearance and delayed gratification are not inherent male traits (but they are of the masculine). They are learned while growing up under typical conditioning afforded to males. Elliot Rodger is a good example of a male who had no understanding of either of those concepts. We (you and I) already understand where FI/feminism fails women by lying to them. What I was trying to discuss is the existence/definition of an “endgame” for the FI. And, repeating myself again, I believe the FI has no “official” endgame, but it does have a direction. I believe that direction is dictated by… Read more »
Alphas Women Alpha sycophants Betas All the women in the US combined couldn’t build a suspension bridge across my backyard let alone independently invade male spaces. Every concerted effort and instance of invading male spaces was backed up by massive institutional funding and propaganda. Alphas fear male spaces, they fear the grumblings and discontent of disenfranchised betas. How many coffee houses fomented the French revolution and had the elites heads in a guillotine? Sounds silly? I recall reading a UNHCR report complaining about the all male environment of Bosnian coffee bars as potential grounds for future violence. In the past… Read more »
I’m new to the red pill, and after a few months have already begun to regard Rollo as at least a minor deity. But to learn your a Rush fan too! You could be the second coming, but I’m not a believer of fantasy. This is related more to last weeks post. In the short time that I’ve taken the red pill (3-31-14 I regard as my awakening/unplugging day) I’ve already reaped major benefits-in fact the rational male very well may have saved my live. While I’m not yet reaping the “pussy benefits” of game yet-and I bear much responsibility… Read more »
Glad you’re benefiting from all this Thor
btw, Rollo, more than once lately I’ve heard Stefan Molyneux using very similar terms to ones you’ve used on your blog. I’m not certain if you coined the term AFBB (I thought you had), but in his recent video he just said, “Alpha Lays, Beta Pays”. This is not the only time I’ve heard him use very very similar wording to some of the points you’ve made on your blog. I wouldn’t be surprised if Stefan is a regular reader. Though based on his past, and his clear thinking it’s also possible he’s just hitting the same path you are.… Read more »
They want promiscuity while remaining desirable (impossible)
They want no fault divorce without stigma (completely unreliable, untrustworthy)
The want to abort their children without judgment for being a killer (psychopathic disregard fur their own family. Infanticide)
Heartsie is right. It’s perpetual adolescence maximal promiscuity for me, and don’t you dare look at my yoga pants or judge me! They are still 6 mentally
The Ancients were more conscious than we are.
Eve, deceived as she ever was.
I love equality!
How about men entering women’s spaces too?
GBFM would say “GBFM can entre teh wimenz lcoker roomzz. lzzolzzzll”
Really,though- what about equality in sports?..How about merging men’s and women’s track and field events?? hahaha
Damn .. real talk here. Great post.. Thank you for feeding my rage Rollo This clearly explains why ESPN Sportscenter has been infiltrated by woman. I remember growing up and (espn) being the ONLY place where my teammates and I could watch Mens sports (no homo) highlights all day long.. Me and the crew drinking beers cussing, jumping and cheering for M.Jordan in the Finals. Now.. nah, I have to listen to some bag, who’s plays lead anchor btw, talk and talk and ask the SAME questions to a guy who clearly knows more about the sport than she does.… Read more »
Great pic too btw Rollo… Case in point. In that movie (Horrible Bosses) Aniston plays role of sex starved nympho dentist, a fantasy of most guys here.
Whats disturbing is the guy she showed interest in was a complete douche limp dick and didn’t nail her like the slut she was. He even sounded like a girl throughout the movie… Trying to STOP her advances.
She was the Alpha wolf and he played role of sensitive femme.
Makes me sick mane. It fucks with your head how they try and reverse roles meant for Men.
Reminds self to think about Head Game, by which I mean intelligent convo Game including discussion of psychology and motivations a feelings and Game. The term has connotations of deception, unfortunately.
@JF12 – and this is OT, Google ‘Lana Del Rey feminism’ and check out the multitude of articles that have been published over the last 24 hours. I told you so, man!
re: LDR. I read this “I had a seven-year relationship with the head of this label, and he was a huge inspiration to me. I’ll tell you later when more people know.” and I think “Oh, so that’s how.”
@Jumungus100, re: “She was the Alpha”. Sometimes I wonder what it would like were a woman to be sexually aggressive towards me, and whether I’d actually welcome it, if I believed. I’ve never even seen it happening towards other men, either, though, so the disbelief would be hard to overcome. The most tenacious female pursuers I’ve seen seem merely to compete to show how submissive and accommodating they could be towards an alpha male; repeating myself I’ve never ever not once remotely seen anything like women forcefully pursuing a beta.
@Rand al Thor
What is the obsession with sex and losing your virginity? Stardusk in one of his YT videos has said that sex is way over-rated and that he personally if given the choice between great sex and a great meal, he’d choose the meal.
@ Elle Bee – Lol. Stardusk is faux scientist dispensing a lot of nonsense and bad advice based on mostly simply made up evo psych and evolutionary biology ideas that have little connection to what scientists know about sex. He’s adopted an asexual lifestyle that is health for exactly NOBODY. If you don’t understand the need humans have for “attachment”, do some Googling. Also look up the psychological consequences of “social isolation” (hint, Elliot Rodgers was so socially isolated that he alienated himself from humanity utterly). And if you don’t know that Stardusk way overestimates the effects of hypergamy (because… Read more »
To all the men reading this who are still virgins, I am going to give you my best advice on how to proceed. In this comment, I will take care to use particular words and language such that nothing explicitly unlawful is advised. OK, here goes: The first time having sex is not that special. The most ‘special’ part about it is the self-satisfaction that you received for having done it, for having crossed that hurdle, for having had that oft-glorified experience. After you do have sex, you may have an empty, hollow feeling inside. ‘Is that all there is?’… Read more »
@Glenn, although I can’t morally recommend banging anything, I wholeheartedly agree on the recommendation on banging the class slut for the purposes you mentioned and also for preselection. It is a curious fact that for preselection it is *only* the girl’s hotness that matters to other girls and not her sluttiness. If the slut has banged the star quarterback then her banging of you increases your SMV to other girls a lot, almost as if the other girls get “exposed” to the star quarterback vicariously through you. I have concocted a theory about this, based on women’s behaviors partly controlled… Read more »
Which had the greater absolute value: banging the class slut or getting rejected by the class slut? A virgin with difficultly closing the deal needs to treat it like lancing a boil. Whether he goes pro, slut, fat, ugly, or old he just has to get it over with. Going pro at least he has a very good chance of getting it done with someone who will do more more than play dead. Crappy sex with a woman you’re marginally attracted to is neither motivating nor rewarding. The unbidden desire of someone who plays a cadaver is of no value.… Read more »
I agree with Badpainter. Also if you go old or chubby bar slut e.g., that woman probably isn’t going to lay there like a real doll, she’s probably going to be psyched about banging you. So I agree that this is probably the best route to go. Also, adopt the Hank Moody ethos of finding something attractive about every woman, even the older or fatter ones. There is a long explanation as to ‘why’, but take it on faith that it’s beneficial to your overall abundance mentality especially as someone sexually inexperienced as yet. If you go the ‘pro’ route,… Read more »
From You Need Sex: http://therationalmale.com/2013/06/26/you-need-sex/ I can remember listening to an episode of the Tom Leykis show when he was on terrestrial radio, and he described what sex is like for men. He said, sex is like taking a piss for a guy – sooner or later he’s got to take care of himself and let loose. Now, most guys would prefer to take a piss in a nice clean bathroom, where the towels smell good and he can feel comfortable and unhurried. Sure, he’d love to have the occasion to take a piss in the bathroom of a four… Read more »
And let’s keep in mind the difference between sex and seduction. Seduction is one process by which to obtain sex. It is just a different form of work for a reward.
As a member of the target audience for this string of ‘hire a pro’ comments, I want to respond. And it’ll be brief, not a short novel, so here goes: To me it feels like standing in line at a lemonade stand where they’re giving it away for free, getting to the counter and being asked for 25 cents. It seems more prudent to just step away and make my own lemonade. The logic is sound but personally I might as well cut my balls off and throw them in a dumpster for all that would do for my self… Read more »
Zen: I understand. It’s a personal choice, no judgement here if that doesn’t feel right to you. Only you know what is acceptable to you. One of the fears I had as a long-past-due virgin was that I would be exposed in the moments leading up to sex by whichever woman happened to be my first…that it would be embarrassing for me and that she’d be put on the spot, possibly walk away or emasculate me at that most vulnerable crossroads, and that the whole thing might be generally a whole awkward mess. Let me give you a couple things… Read more »
Another good one RT. I’ll be prepared to start thinking about equality when I’m standing on the deck of a “Titanic” as it dawns on the captain that the ship really is going down, with only enough lifeboats for 750 of the 1,000 passengers, and all 250 of the adult female passengers spontaneously band together and shout, “men and children first!”. I’ll be prepared to start thinking about equality when virtually every significant invention is consistently made by a woman rather than by a man, even though a great many of these inventions tend to improve the lives of men… Read more »
“It’s what Daddy used to do” several generations ago. Men haven’t been allowed to tell their daughters what to do since the sexual revolution. By law.
Don’t beat them with your fists, beat them with your brain.
A friend in her 40s that’s still attractive, has been the first woman to accomplish _____, ____ and ____. She posted that she knows lots of millionaires and deca millionaires just prior to posting this question: “Mom: I can’t believe you are still single: you are so beautiful, smart, highest degree in our family, won many awards and know more successful people than our whole family combined.
Me: Thats probably why. Its hard to find a guy smarter than me and I can’t be with someone I can’t talk to.
Is that true for many still single women?”
Rollo – this is a layup for you, if you wish to take it on.
The NYT ‘conservative’ op-ed voice writes this, critiquing De Boer, trying so hard to take the ‘sensible middle’ position, utterly refusing to acknowledge that in tossing out – a propos nothing – “And so then for today’s toxic, self-deluded bachelors….” without specificity of naming names or elucidating what comprises the ‘toxicity’ he confers upon those absent strawmen, he is merely buttressing uncritically ad-hominem Nth-wave feminist arguments. Yuck.
http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/the-left-and-masculinity/
mommie always want to be in charge… and men who’ve not properly been severed from their mothers by their father or at least some father figure, will tend to revert to and even actively seek out female authority of the mommie figure…
the problem is that mommie, is not that smart, is often bossy for no real reason and relies on shame, guilt and other emotional tactics, rather than looking for overall outcome.
OT, but too funny…
“These two charts from OkCupid founder @christianrudder’s new book will disturb you deeply”.
https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedAndrew/status/474733253308719104/photo/1
“@Liz, a woman’s point of view about men is, I think, always valuable for something.”
Yeah, it’s so rare and unique. We must nurture these so that valuable voices are not lost. (dabs eyes)
Off topic. There is a new book out that I believe would be of some interest to you guys. It’s called Trials of Passion: Crimes in the Name of Love and Madness, by Lisa Appignanesi. I reproduce a review from the Literary Review magazine. —— Frances Wilson Vice Squad In Trials of Passion, Lisa Appignanesi returns for the third time to the theme of women on the verge of nervous breakdowns. She first opened this Pandora’s box in Mad, Bad and Sad: A History of Women and the Mind Doctors from 1800 to the Present, an encyclopaedic examination of the… Read more »
@Tenno: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJsaWunYBPk
@Glengarry, re: “Yeah, it’s so rare and unique.”
In a way it is rare. An honest observation from a woman is rare, especailly an honest observation about men. Hearing women’s voices is not rare, obviously, we agree, but it’s almost always expressions of feelings or dreams or other stuff that’s not observational and/or not honest.
“The goal of feminism is to remove all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality.”
It’s broader that that. The goal is to give the maximum benefits for women with the minimum costs. The fact that most of these costs are assumed by men is a side effect.
Removing constraints on female sexuality -> A benefit for women. Restricting male sexuality -> A cost for men.
Quotas -> Male benefits without male costs. And so on and so forth
Hello Rosso. I’ve got a few questions. I bought your book. I want to offer it to my two young brothers. But they don’t know anything about game, the red pill stuff so I think it would not be comprehensible for them. What books do you suggest I buy them with the rational male in order to make it easier for them to understand? Moreover I just read the section where you talked about height being the first physical criteria women looked for into a man. I am very short (170cm) and I thought you would give some hints or… Read more »
Jean, not one of us is a perfect specimen of manhood. Becoming fit, fixing one’s teeth, LASIK, corrective (not cosmetic) surgery are within one’s control. Then, keeping clean and wearing modern clothes that fit one’s personality are the most a man ought to do. Height simply isn’t something one can (or should) do anything about. If one can’t control a characteristic one should accept (or even embrace) it and move on. Don’t become Elliot Rodger. BTW, unless you are Maasi or maybe Croatian, 170cm cannot be characterized as “very short”. Move on. Oh, IMHO a good primer to Rollo’s book… Read more »