I’m not really sure where to begin with the killings in Santa Barbara.
About 6 years ago my niece attended UCSB and I became peripherally aware of the social landscape there from what she’d relate either to the family or via FaceBook. It wasn’t really anything less than I’d expect from a notorious ‘party school’ populated by the kids of affluent families – beautiful people, beautiful environment and all the displays of conspicuous consumption you’d probably expect. And it would be the perfect hell for a guy like Eliot Rodger.
Until now I’ve tactically avoided throwing my hat in the ring about this incident because I know the dangers inherent in going off half-cocked about a developing story. If you’re looking for details and information about how this kid evolved into what he was I’ll refer you to Heartiste’s, RoK’s and JustFourGuys breakdown of it. That said I’m going to tap out a few of my own personal thoughts about the kid and the social impact of not just how he came to be, but also what you can expect from a feminine-primary media.
PUAHate
As I’m sure most of the primary manosphere sites have, the members of the PUAHate forum found select posts at Rational Male as a particular targets of their vitriol. When I initially became aware of the forum (via link backs) it was due to their being very publicly linked to the Manboobz blog (now We Hunted the Mammoth).
After perusing the forum for a bit I wrote it off as a collection of guys commiserating about their shared social disenfranchisement and, not to be too blunt, but their shared lack of social intelligence. That these guys were angry with the manosphere was pretty much a given. For the most, they fit a particular personality pattern that’s characteristic of boys / men looking for an easy solution to their social ostracization and noted rejection from female intimacy.
I know the personality well since these types of guys are usually the first to email/PM me for advice for the easiest path between where they are now and where they want to be. They initially believe that Game / red pill awareness / PUA techniques are the panacea they’re looking for to cure their largely sexless and lonely existences.
When, due to their functional autism, Asperger’s syndrome or simply a social awkwardness, they find that the only thing that posed to be a ‘plan’ to help them “get their girl” doesn’t work the way they’d hoped, the reaction is a hostile rejection of what they believe ‘promised’ them the results of curing their sexless state.
To compound things the same PUAs they sought help from, become caricatures of the men who are successfully hooking up with the girls they wanted really nothing more than to be a loyal boyfriend to. They resort back to the only thing they knew, Beta Game – identify and qualify with women – only now they not only reinvest themselves in it they want to become activists against any form of Game that isn’t what they believe women should respond to.
I don’t have any corroboration of it, but my guess is that a guy like Eliot would’ve made the ridicule list for the now defunct Tumblr “Nice Guys of OKCupid“. I’d suggest reading that post as a primer for anyone wanting to get a better grasp of how this personality type thinks and is ridiculed for.
The PUAs they’d hoped would let them in on the ‘secret’ to a woman’s intimacy, are revealed to them as the charlatan Bad Boy, ‘Alpha males’ they’ve always resented, who they believe mock them with every successful lay they manage.
What’s worse, what fuels their PUAHate activism, is that they ever believed their ‘enemy’ would reveal a way to become like they are. I bring up this observation from experience. I’ve had more than a few of these kinds of guys hit me up, not for advice, but a specific plan that will lead them to some kind of relief from their condition.
Descriptions and Prescriptions
In Preventative Medicine IV a commenter (who, for the record is not an InCel by any stretch) asked me why I had no real prescriptive plan for men to follow with regards to ‘preventing’ or avoiding the bad decisions associated with the time line I laid out in that series. This was my response:
Imagine for a moment I had the temerity to presume that I know exactly what a 60 year old reader like bbb experiences in his personal life with a post-menopausal wife. I could take a good stab at it (in fact I have a post in the can about menopause) but anything specific I could prescribe for him would be based on my best-guess speculations and according to how I’ve observed and detailed things in this series or any of my past posts.
From my earliest posts at SoSuave I’ve had men ask me for some ‘medicine’ for their condition; some personalized plan that will work for them. This sentiment is exactly what makes PUA and manosphere ‘self-help’ speakers sell DVDs and seats at seminars. They claim to have the cure. I say that’s bullshit.
I’m not in the business of cures, I’m in the business of diagnoses. Imagine David D’ Angelo, the “new” Tucker Max or Tyler Durden attempting to force fit their plans to accommodate bbb’s situation. Athol Kay makes attempts to remedy married men’s (non) sex lives, but what’s his real success rate? Is it even measurable? Even Athol recognizes that his MMSL outline is just a map, a diagnosis, that men have to modify for themselves per their individual experience and demographic. You see, your cure, your plan of action isn’t what bbb’s will be, or your future son’s, or anyone else reading my work. I can give you a map, but you still have to make your own trail. I’m not a savior, you are your savior
Short version: I’m not interested in making men be better men, I’m interested in men making themselves better Men.
What’s more legitimate, my prescribing some course or template to follow that leads a man to a success that ultimately I define for a reader, or my laying out an accurate landscape for his better understanding and he creates his own success with it?
Are you your success or my success? I’d rather a Man be his own.
Most men already know what the keys are, and most even know how to use them, but what they really want is confirmation that they actually have the keys.
My approach to Game is defined in much broader terms than simply ‘how to get girls’, and I think for the better part of the manosphere the understanding of Game has evolved beyond rote memorization of scripts and plans. It’s gotten to a stage where even the most enthusiastic proponents of PUA techniques acknowledge a need for an individualized approach to relating and interacting with women based on a broader applied understanding of feminine psychology, sociology and the particular conditions that apply to themselves as well as the women they’re interacting with.
It’s been noted before, my approach to Game is descriptive, not prescriptive.
What’s Next?
In the next month or so I expect there will be a lot of armchair psychologists making their best attempt to suss out what Eliot’s killings represent without ever really having experienced in any depth the mental schemas of minds like his. A fem-centric media and society will want its easy, binary answers and I suspect they’ll get no less in passing Eliot’s neurosis off on whatever conveniently fits the narrative that makes for the easiest to swallow and move on.
Right now I expect that’s going to be the manosphere, but Eliot wasn’t our monster, he was the product of his own psychosis and his neurotic belief in the First Set of Books. Eliot was a more violent version of what happens when socially maladaptive men root themselves in a transactional, reciprocal, model of what would solve his loneliness, sexual frustration and desperation.
Eliot and those of his mindset believed that everyone ought to be playing by the set of rules he was conditioned to believe everyone else was playing by and he dutifully subscribed to. They want a prescription, not a painful, ego destroying description.
Under those rules, he embodied his own definition of an Alpha – the guy who played it right and would be gratefully appreciated by any normal person adhering to the way things should be. But he couldn’t come to terms with the fact that everyone else wasn’t playing by that rule set, and he wouldn’t be rewarded for his self-righteous dedication to his conditioning with sex or justice or even basic human interaction. Six people died because he couldn’t come to terms with the fact that much of the opposite of what that conditioning taught him was what he saw was being rewarded.
Would a better grasp of Game have changed Eliot’s mind? I doubt it.
That’s not an indictment of Game or red pill awareness, but rather an understanding of the mindset he developed. I know the obsessiveness of the kind of guy Eliot was. A devoted girlfriend, and her sexual affections wouldn’t have steered his course any differently.
His hate required his destitution, and vice versa. That hate wasn’t about women or misogyny, or Alpha jocks getting after it with the girls he wanted, or even PUAs selling him a new set of rules he couldn’t stomach; his hate was about his inability to reconcile his ego with the ugly realities that a brief exposure to red pill truths revealed to him.
Game saves lives, and not just the lives of the person awakening to a red pill awareness. I know this firsthand from twelve years of private email testimonials and heartbreaking confessions.
Game saves lives, particularly in an era where hypergamy and the new gender paradigm, established since the sexual revolution, ruthlessly selects-out men who might otherwise expect to be considered intimately acceptable by their dedication and adherence to the set of beliefs their feminized conditioning has promised them would be their reward – but the men who need it most have to come to terms with the pain, remorse and resentment of having ever needed to cut themselves away from their prior system belief.
That severance from their conditioned ego-investment is a test that will either prompt them to see the old system for what it was and adapt, or simply put a gun to their head (or the heads of others beforehand).
It is very difficult to make men aware of Game, but the acceptance of it is more difficult when it challenges a man’s sense of self that’s been literally built upon the belief that the system he’s cut himself away from was part of who he really is.
The Bitter Taste of the Red Pill
The truth will set you free, but it doesn’t make truth hurt any less, nor does it make truth any prettier, and it certainly doesn’t absolve you of the responsibilities that truth requires. One of the biggest obstacles guys face in unplugging is accepting the hard truths that Game forces upon them. Among these is bearing the burden of realizing what you’ve been conditioned to believe for so long were comfortable ideals and loving expectations are really liabilities. Call them lies if you want, but there’s a certain hopeless nihilism that accompanies categorizing what really amounts to a system that you are now cut away from. It is not that you’re hopeless, it’s that you lack the insight at this point to see that you can create hope in a new system – one in which you have more direct control over.
As an end note here I think in the coming weeks there will be a greater scrutiny placed on Game and the manosphere in general. There will undoubtedly be more back and forth about the how’s and why’s of Eliot’s killings, and I sincerely doubt all the effort expended to prove that this kid was an antisocial, psychotic and really needed the unplugging an acceptance of Game would’ve benefitted him with. You simply wont teach those unwilling to learn.
However, as always, my comment thread here will be unmoderated for those who want to offer their take on all this. I would ask though that if you have a personal testimonial about how Game, or The Rational Male (book or blog) or any other manosphere writer, or idea / experience changed the course of your life, please considering leaving it here for the benefit of others. Nothing is TL;DR as far as I’m concerned.
As I mentioned earlier, I have an email ‘save’ box reserved for inspirational emails I receive from readers. Many of these are confessionals about aborted suicide attempts due in part or whole to something I wrote or caused some man to rethink. I wouldn’t dream of breaking any man’s confidence by copy and pasting them into a blog post, but if you have some experience you comfortable with sharing in the comments I’d encourage you to do so during this time.
Thank you.
[…] The Severing […]
This ‘yesallwomen’ bullshit is nothing but amoral, hypergamous victim-women reacting by attacking what they would defend. They are defensive because they know their true nature. They know they treat lonely, less-attractive men like absolute garbage. They know that the attractive asshole gets the girl. They know the truth about no-fault divorce and how women use men and extract from men for *years*, not just for a night of sex. They also know why women hate each other.
Fuck the feminists and their vapid ‘I can’t wait to make this about me and my various political causes’ horseshit.
I wish I could say I have no idea how anyone could do such a thing. I wish I could say I can’t identify with someone like that. The truth is if I never discovered the “manosphere” back when I was a lonely frustrated virgin, I may very well have ended up like this guy. It was a lot of work (and I have a long way to go) but I changed the momentum of the course of my life and without this site in particular I am fairly sure suicide would’ve been my fate. Keep up the good work… Read more »
Watching this guys videos it becomes very apparent that Rodger couldn’t believe that his BMW, his nice clothes, first class jet setting lifestyle, and his money couldn’t get him laid. He couldn’t believe that women were throwing themselves at broke “douchebags” and “obnoxious brutes” instead of him the “supreme gentlemen”. In other words Rodger couldn’t fathom that the California babes would prefer alpha thug game over beta provider game. This case just confirms everything we all know to be true. Roosh’s post over at ROK is 100% dead on. Elliot Rodger is a victim of this culture and this kid… Read more »
“Would a better grasp of Game have changed Eliot’s mind? I doubt it”…………Once again you’re spot on Rollo. My good mate unplugged me 6 months ago at age 42 and since then, I’ve gorged on a steady diet of RM (Year 1 & 2 as well as all the archives) and believe I’m starting to internalize Game. Internalizing Game is something Rodger wasn’t even close to. He was obviously so outcome dependent on a few clumsy PUA attempts that this made him snap. I agree – Game SAVES lives. On a personal note, I was never close to being suicidal… Read more »
Although he killed twice as many men as women the focus is now all about misogyny. Typical female solipsism. He was a pathological narcissist who would not have been helped by game. I have dealt with people like this. Even when they start to gain some of the validation they crave it is never enough. Eventually, anyone not under their control is driven away. Reality never matches up to their delusions of grandeur and they eventually have a breakdown or lash out.
Rollo. Your brilliant work has got me back in the gym. Eating clean. Dressing sharp and DHV ing at every opportunity. Taking my own sweet time and setting my frame. And starting my own business. Many many thanks.
You’re right Rollo, there will be a lot of hatred coming towards the manosphere in the near future. The media has already started pointing fingers and will continue to do so… but this is nothing new. My hope is that men (and women) who are not familiar with the manosphere due to their lack of exposure will be compelled to do some research about it for themselves. I believe after the initial bitterness of the red pill wears off many lives will change for the better even in the context of this negative exposure… and this would be new. As… Read more »
Nice comment Stuttie. My final comment on Elliot. We in the west have abandoned all male initiation rites of passage. And we have replaced them with “losing you virginity”. Elders and Men of standing used to defines the nomen when you leave boyhood behind and become a man.
Now the feminine imperative defines when you become a man. = hence Coldplay.
I sincerely would like to thank you this way for the wonderful writing you are doing and would like to ad my story to this thread as it and the manosphere in general has helped me a lot recently. The first time I came into contact with one of your posts was last summer with the SMV graph. Then I started reading some more stuff and slowly but surely things started creeping up in real life confirming them. The tipping point happened in the beginning of winter when I was supposed to meet up with a couple of friends, but… Read more »
Great post. The best I’ve read so far about this tragedy. That he is a result of his blue pill conditioning is exactly it. Facing up to the reality of how things really work can be very hard and ego destroying, as you say. I have been game aware for years now and still feel a little heartbroken when I compare the idealization I had about love and relationships to the hard truth the Red Pill makes you aware of. The hardest part is deciding what it means about who you are, have been and will be, because every choice… Read more »
There will always be various interpretations to Elliott Rodger’s actions. Some will be construed to suit their own agendas, and some will look at it more objectively. Some will draw from similar mindset experiences at a related age and in comparable environments.
I always aspire to look at it from reality, but nobody will ever truly know what was going through his head. This is my interpretation:
http://www.vinaywcmd.com/2014/05/elliott-rodger-took-womens-existences.html
Short version: I’m not interested in making men be better men, I’m interested in men making themselves better Men.
I think this is the key. This is the direction I believe others are moving as well.
Of course Game knowledge and especially extended Red Pill wisdom by the likes of Rollo Tomassi, Roosh, Krauser, Heartiste made it way easier for me to understand everyhing. Though I was as what would be called a Greater Beta and not unsuccessful with women. Quite a few of my friends are Alpha, with some deep Beta friends being the exception, I introduced most of my friends to Game theory as soon as finding out. Almost all accepted it quickly since it matched their experiences as it did mine. Even quite a few female friends and family members accepted the knowledge.… Read more »
I found out about Game about 18 months ago and it most certainly saved my marriage and in a figurative sense it most certainly saved my life. I came to it through MMSL which in some ways is almost Game-lite. But it still works because its still based on the fundamental red pill truths in the world and no amount of group think in the media can change your fundamental understanding and grasp of red pill reality once it sets in. For my part as I read my way through the path of knowledge I couldn’t help but be gripped… Read more »
I have some sympathy for him, what he did was unforgivable, but family breakdown, Asperger syndrome and a lifetime of bullying will make a person resentful and angry.
Also the entitlement and narcissism this guy displayed is about what is expected in any reasonably attractive woman and even some of the not so attractive ones.
Every time one of these killing sprees happens I predict the shooter is from a broken family, I’ve not been wrong yet. Marriage was the foundation of civilization, as we destroy it as an institution we will see more barbaric acts like this.
@Boo
‘Watching this guys videos it becomes very apparent that Rodger couldn’t believe that his BMW, his nice clothes, first class jet setting lifestyle, and his money couldn’t get him laid’
Why wouldn’t he believe that ?
It’s all everyone and everything has ever told him his entire life.
awesome reading all these comments…..so far. @ agent p – nice post. How long after you swallowed the Red Pill did you “introduce” your wife to Game? I find it extraordinary that she “just gets it” and accepts it. One one hand, I wish I’d found Game, and still with my HB8 ex wife (even though a pain in the ass but fuckin hot), but on the other hand, I was living in the matrix. I’m now giddy in my post Red Pill oasis of opportunities – future pu55y and tight LTR Game. Once you take the red pill –… Read more »
For me, the road from being an Omega to one where I could consistently bed a woman, took more than ten years. The time between my late teens to my early 30s were empty and quite often lonely years. That road is long, full of unexpected twists and turns but if you hold to a path you’ve set for yourself you will triumph. I was a fat chubby nerd when I started, but I knew one thing. I wanted to love a good woman and I wanted to be loved in turn. The question was how to achieve that goal.… Read more »
“It is not that you’re hopeless, it’s that you lack the insight at this point to see that you can create hope in a new system”
Alternatively, you could discover the system upon which this civilization was built, one that knew how to make men and women who loved them. It’s the blue-pill bullshit that is the new thing.
A thoughtful and dignified response in this turbulent moment. When one has the opportunity to study and examine the exact nature of modern conventional wisdom, the matrix, the illuminati, the (less) recent history of gender dynamics (as in, prior to the sexual revolution and suffrage of women), patriarchy, the sacred feminine, if one can read and comprehend the influence of Plato and Socrates, if one studies numerology, astrology, understands the history and modern practices of witchcraft, satanic ritual, and other dark arts, when one is able to comprehend the true dynamic relationship that the individual has with the group, studies… Read more »
I was a volcel from 17-27 as I was balls deep in evangelical Christianity. I assumed the identity of the nice zealous Christian man (I hadalready walked into the church with nice guy tendencies). Needless to say my betatude only incensed exponentially under the influence of the evangelical church. At 27 I finally had a break down and began to question the realities of faith for a variety of reasons. The biggest reason was that I lived my life thinking my needs didn’t matter (only Jesus/spiritual things/etc). I ultimately realized I was miserable because of this, and that I could… Read more »
Paying forward one’s Red Pill Epiphany to another man either through a forum or personally is a life saver, from what I’ve read Men who have had a realtionship/marriage breakdown have a suicide rate four times higher than women. I can believe this because since the end of my own marriage three years ago I’ve met a number of men who after a few drinks admitted to almost taking the “Smith & Wesson” way out. One I met, the thoughful man he was, was going to do it in the shower stall naked, so he wouldn’t leave a big mess,… Read more »
@stuttie How and when did I introduce my wife to the red pill? It was about 14 months after I took the pill. Frankly I was worried for a long time that she would take a very dim view of the ideas that are central to red pill. The way I went about it I think had a lot to do with my success in traducing the ideas. We were embarking on a two week stay with her parents on vacation and she was not happy about her mother’s behaviour (Entitled bitch). I explained that she would settle down once… Read more »
“The thing was to know what he belonged to, how many powers of darkness claimed him for their own. That was the reflection that made you creepy all over. It was impossible – it was not good for one either – trying to imagine. He had taken a high seat amongst the devils of the land – I mean literally. You can’t understand. How could you? – with solid pavement under your feet, surrounded by kind neighbors ready to cheer you or to fall on you, stepping delicately between the butcher and the policeman, in the holy terror of scandal… Read more »
That guy’s life was a mess otherwise, no friends, no marketable skills, no degree, and while his family might have been well-off, that just made him more dependent, and not even secure since their support was conditional. Women were the least of his problems
A couple thoughts…
I did a breakdown of Elliot’s psychology based on his memoir. He had a applicative relationship with his mother that represents an extreme version of what most blue pill men face:
runsonmagic.com/2014/05/psych-analysis-elliot-rodger/
Elliot was exposed to game, but his learned helplessness prevented him from learning it. Still, I love Roosh’s response on ROK here:
http://www.returnofkings.com/36230/irresponsible-journalists-are-using-elliot-rodger-to-push-a-privileged-white-girl-agenda
And this morning, Tuthmosis blasted the horrible journalistic response to Elliot’s murders:
http://www.returnofkings.com/36230/irresponsible-journalists-are-using-elliot-rodger-to-push-a-privileged-white-girl-agenda
I’ve been condemned in similar ways to Rodger for doing the following: -cutting myself -almost committing suicide a number of times -having problems with alcohol and porn addiction -coming off as too needy I have been told “Do the world a favor and kill yourself” for being too vulnerable and open about the loneliness and frustration I was struggling with. Got torn apart. People made fun of and humiliated me and called me stupid when I would express things like wanting a hug. I did not beat anyone up. I wasn’t mean to people. I have just been in an… Read more »
Good luck on your path! It takes longer to disentangle yourself from bad experiences and the constant Blue Pill brainwashing, if you had been so unlucky to been stuck there longer. Also people in society react to weakness and they pounce upon it – women are especially ruthless about it. You might consider writing about some of your experiences at the RooshVF forum. Many young men were going along similar paths in the past. I personally had periods of isolation during my teenage years due to a bad case of acne. Even after it was gone it took me some… Read more »
Game does not work for men with serious social dysfunction or serious mental issues. It works for socially well-functioning men who want to improve their performance. Rodger needed a different kind of program, the kind of thing I write about. I had similar problems, worse in some ways, better in others, but found my way through with some personal success and some help from proto-game resources.
This guy struck me as the ultimate Liberal – blaming others, and looking to punish them for his own inadequacies and failures. To a large extent, if you thought of him as a woman, ranting against “the Pariarchy” and others, he was spouting the same hatred that all Liberals spout and his killings is the outcome of that hatred. Nothing new really – of course, I wouldn’t expect that ilk to ever see, or accept, this his is one of their own… Along with numerous other murderers – all of them have been Liberals – because that is what liberalism… Read more »
Would a better grasp of Game have changed Eliot’s mind? I doubt it. That’s not an indictment of Game or red pill awareness, but rather an understanding of the mindset he developed. I know the obsessiveness of the kind of guy Eliot was. A devoted girlfriend, and her sexual affections wouldn’t have steered his course any differently. You don’t think a devoted girlfriend would have prevented him from going on a shooting rampage? How can you say this? I would agree that a better grasp of game would not have altered his course once he chose hate as his base… Read more »
You don’t think a devoted girlfriend would have prevented him from going on a shooting rampage? How can you say this? Because it wouldn’t have been enough, it wouldn’t have been ‘right’ to him in some way. He would perceive her to be inadequate or pathetic to pair herself with a reject like himself. She’d have had a prior BF and that would trigger his learned extremism. As I stated, his hate needed his destitution and vice versa. If he’d had a GF it may have delayed his actions, but he’d still have killed her or himself or others. His… Read more »
Never needed a prescriptive as red pill fit with my pre-marriage alpha. Post marriage, I was rewarded for beta until menopause forced me to increase my SMV to enable soft dread. Menopause is no longer an excuse and I privately relish the attention from other women, knowing that if my current wife (of 36 years) dumps me, I’ll have many other options for sex.
Eliot Roger’s adherence to the feminine imperative fucked him up. 20% of men fuck 80% of the women and Eliot was trying so hard to be part of the 80%.
Rollo, I was going through my OneItis of 30yrs, as a “beta”, I broke the barrier and “busted a move”. It was a weak attempt I must say. It had the now predictable result of rejection via LJBF. During this time you wrote something (I can’t find the post, but would like it if you remembered) along the lines of her saying “You are perfect for me But…”. She mentioned she was “confused” about why not? But she just didn’t have the tingles. Reading that and living through the experience at the same time, made me soak in the “manosphere”,… Read more »
@Rollo, What I meant initially in my comment at Preventive Medicine IV, comes from the perspective of a father. Watching my son get raised by the same women, inside the same schools, bathed daily in the same feminist media, where I was raised and where poor Eliot Rodger was clearly raised. “Would a better grasp of Game have changed Eliot’s mind? I doubt it.” It’s obvious that a 17 year old boy who reads your book or your blog will find it challenging, and must use his imagination to look into his own future and picture his life at 27,… Read more »
He snapped. Ultimately he grasped the world operated under redpill rules, and he was so disgusted by it and the animal nature of our species that didn’t conform to his ‘supreme gentleman’ code of blue pill conduct – he couldn’t go on. Couldn’t get plugged back into living in ignorance. So if he couldn’t have that bluepill fantasy, no one would have any happiness. It’s strange. I was in his exact same shoes.. and i have come to a point in my life where i cannot relate to him. I have digested and internalized the red pill so much, i… Read more »
Rollo, there are some hard to follow parts of what is a very interesting post, due to typos and ambiguous grammar. Please, please fix. I read nearly the entire diatribe. It is pedantic and juvenile, but surprisingly readable. The kid’s recall and description of even early childhood is impressive. I (47) saw a lot of my teenage self in Elliot’s rantings. I too grew up in SoCal in a comfortably middle to upper middle class home, among great wealth, but not of it. I was also deeply affected by my parents’ divorce. Unlike him, I was disgusted by the wealth.… Read more »
I cant overstate how useful this blog has been to my life. I am a natural alpha by attitude but I needed this blog to finally believe that this is the way that I should be with women. It has literally been eye-opening. The takeaway is simple. The girl wants you to lead her. That is the basis of any successful male-female relationship. Every good girl has a sexual beast inside her. When you lead her, this sexual self will come out for you. The most important takeaway is to forget the transactional premise of male-female relationships. Now, I focus… Read more »
Jeremey: “Celibacy is actually likely far more survivable as a male than as a female since women are more ego-invested in their ability to attract males.” Dr. O’Neill: He cut off her nose. Somerset: To spite her face. I have to agree. If you watch the movie Se7en, you see that the model woman ends up taking the bottle of pills over living with a disfigured face because going on with life and not being afforded the privileges of simply being attractive to the opposite sex simply for being a recognizable feminine woman appearance wise takes away all her sexual… Read more »
Great take
“In the end, I side with Roosh on this, re: his conclusion that perhaps Eliot could have been saved. Maybe if some man, somewhere, or better yet a group of men, had taken Eliot under his wing right from childhood, and prescribed a workout and approach routine, including helpful encouragement and careful criticism, perhaps this day wouldn’t have come.” and “As I stated, his hate needed his destitution and vice versa.” I agree with both of these. As an omega male, you come to regard your old friend anger like the realest, most precious ally in your life. An omega… Read more »
this guy was mentally ill. no question.
the problem is that loser white knights & manginas refuse to accept the red pill. it is bitter. taking the pill was bitter for me but it didn’t open my eyes as much as it confirmed what i had lived but had no words to describe.
this story should hopefully drive boys away from those mangina sites so they don’t end up like him.
Long time reader and first time poster. While the manosphere didn’t necessarily save my life, it certainly changed it, both positively and permanently. My Google search “How can I get my wife to respect me?” brought me to MMSL. I was dumbfounded. I read it because I couldn’t actually believe what he was proposing as a marital remedy. Being a voracious reader of everything mass media, I had never heard of someone suggesting the Red Pill to improve a relationship. I tried a couple of “tricks” and THEY WORKED! I bought his book and read it twice. On my quest… Read more »
Rollo said, “A fem-centric media and society will want its easy, binary answers and I suspect they’ll get no less in passing Eliot’s neurosis off on whatever conveniently fits the narrative that makes for the easiest to swallow and move on.” I know Rollo is sorta bound by gender issues in this blog, but I’d love to hear him (and others) expound on the problems of modern mainstream media above and beyond gender issues. In my opinion, the influence and sway of the media giants might be the biggest threat against our Bill of Rights, freedom, and way of life.… Read more »
@Lion, I already have:
http://www.returnofkings.com/21289/the-mainstream-media-writes-for-people-in-cubicles
@Andrew – post at 5:27am.
You seem to have been surrounded by some clearly desperate women at that meeting that you describe.
I’ve been ignoring women for many many years now wherever I go and strange to report they continue to ignore me.
So I live my life totally free of any hassle that they bring.
Indeed am now told by other married women of my generation how sensible I have been to have avoided the whole business of relationships and marriage.
But then again, maybe life in the UK is different…………
“quit acting like a puppy dog, always looking for her attention” Athol. From this simple sentence, the realization that somehow after 26 years of marriage, (the first 20, telling myself, wait til the kids are older before you get out of this bitches clutch) my whole universe depended on my wife’s acknowledgement of me was a shock! Over the last 1.5 years I have slowly been working game into our relationship and now find that I can breathe without having to have her tell me she loves me. How the hell do you change from a guy who has always… Read more »
I disagree in that Rodger having a girlfriend may have cured some of his problems, enough to normalize his sexual sanity. But it would have had to have happened much earlier, high school for example. He claimed to have already been thinking about killing then because of the lack of sexual attention. The mental problems Rodger suffered are exhibited not just in his boring reflections and obsessive plans but also his actions. The men Rodger killed first, his roommates, were of Asian descent, nerdy, and lousy with girls, just like him to some degree in that aspect. He never bothered… Read more »
jf12 – agreed, what he considered to be his ‘pickup attempts’ were nothing that we’d remotely consider to be actual, ‘respectable’ attempts. He never seems to have ‘given it the ol’ college try’. I mean, the guy would simply say ‘hi’ and expect these girls to automatically jump on his cock or something. What we see in him is an extreme fear of rejection such that there is apparently no evidence he even invited a girl out or asked a girl if she’d like to join him somewhere. We can call it mental illness or we can call it extreme… Read more »
when my son is 13 or 14 I am going to take him to a big mall downtown and pay him $5 for every approach he makes and I’ll give him $20 for every number he gets from a chick. I will show him a huge wad of cash to motivate him and let him know he only has a few hours to do the deals. No fear, go get em son! I have no doubt that by the end of that day he will have no fear of approach with real live girls. Any social anxiety will be snowed… Read more »
@SteveH, I agree. He even tattled on himself regarding incidents in which he got mad for a girl failing to talk to him even though he had not tried to initiate talking with her!
Rodger’s refusal to get his hands dirty in actually trying (despite his bloddy end) anything is symptomatic of some syndrome similar to the women’s syndrome which makes them think Sleeping Beauty is an effective strategy to meet men. I guess we can call it Handsome Prince syndrome, but for Handsome Prince the story is reversed so he sits bored in his castle waiting for Sleeping Beauty to float by.
I’m a long time reader, first time poster. I encountered the manosphere three years ago from the time spent on a forum for unhappy spouses with overweight partners with a blue pill perspective. A poster talked about Athol Kay’s site, which linked to the three R’s and other Red Pill writings. I devoured the writings and experimented with Red Pill concepts in my marriage and found that they indeed worked. I passed the biggest shit test of them all, the overweight, entitled spouse that I had to, unfortunately, bring to her knees with an ultimatum. But the stuff worked! In… Read more »
Rollo – I’m a bit surprised by the analysis you offered here. I’m also deeply offended and disappointed by much of the response of the manosphere to these murders. And no, I’m not clutching my fucking pearls – the reason I’m here is because understanding human intersexual dynamics better helps me navigate the world more effectively and happily. And you, Rollo, usually manage to do so without the misogynistic, juvenile and bitter nonsense that pervades much of the “manosphere”. Here’s how I see it, for what it’s worth. 1. Elliot Rodgers was a profoundly disturbed young man, mentally and emotionally… Read more »
Equality my ass.
Just thought I’d share…
Glenn – I don’t always agree with Roosh and yes, some of his posts are pretty sophomoric – but as for that particular article, we must have been reading something different entirely. He didn’t just ‘Alpha shit’ on Rodger and he did offer empathy. This is a very serious moment. A moment which has arrived following Rodger’s lifetime of very serious ‘therapy’. Why aren’t those therapists being called to account? Why is it a few anonymous (anti) PUAs who are being vilified? Those therapists made a shitload of dough shuffling Rodger into and out of their offices on the regular.… Read more »
Rollo – as always, great stuff. You provide important insights especially when trying to understand men. Joking for years that I didn’t quite understand men, I decided to learn everything I can about the “manosphere” and after learning about your blog a few months back I started reading more and more, and I don’t think you guys understand the huge (positive) impact putting things into plain language makes for people who often might be confined to their worlds with their own thoughts to try making sense of things that frustrate them. Men don’t seem to do well with confiding or… Read more »
This is in response to Rollo’s request for testimonials. I have read the Rational male and MMSL. I don’t remember which, or both, said it, but the idea that desire cannot be earned is probably the biggest one I have taken. Omega Man mentions above about being dragged to bed. I was always fit, but never muscular. I started working out to increase my upper body strength for swim meets I was competing in, and suddenly my wife started commenting about my “manly chest” and her desire increased. She herself mentioned she had no idea why when I brought it… Read more »
I don’t know if I can say I’ve been in his position but here’s my story. In school, I was never on the basketball team. Or the baseball team. I was never in a frat. I was never even in student government. I was just another guy except for a few quirks here and there. I wasn’t a loud guy and I wasn’t the talkative type. I was very laid back. People thought I was soft. I was bullied as a kid all the way until high school. I had co-workers treating me like they were my boss. I had… Read more »
I posted the comment below on Chateau Heartiste yesterday but after reading the above post I think it also qualifies as a case study on how Game changed my life so I’m just reposting it here in thanks for the community that opened my eyes and dragged me out kicking and screaming. I came to the Rational Male relatively late (only the last few months) but it has really helped in developing my intellectual framework to understand interactions I see every day at a deeper level than “how to talk to women in bars” (as important as that is). A… Read more »
Old Married Guy here to chime in about the value of the manosphere and game. I have been married for 20+ years and have been faithful all that time as I underwent total emasculation and beta-ization at the hands of society, myself, and my wife. Towards the end, just about a year ago, I was suicidal if not homicidal. I was preparing my exit, getting a divorce complaint together, preparing to abandon my family and leave. I was on the IV sex program (just enough to keep you alive) for decades and I had enough. I hated my wife. The… Read more »
The 3 takes I most wanted on Elliot Rodger were Roissy, Rollo, and M3. I read Roissy’s take yesterday, and got a 2-for-1 with Rollo’s OP and M3 in the comments here. Thank you. It’s tricky commenting on Rodger because the formative experiences he relates in his manifesto resonate; but of course, I don’t want to be labeled as sympathetic and identifying with a mass murderer. However, Rodger’s problem of incel, sexual alienation, or whatever you want to call it, is a serious problem shared by many men, and running away from Rodger feels like abandoning the problem. I can… Read more »
@M3 It’s strange. I was in his exact same shoes.. and i have come to a point in my life where i cannot relate to him. I have digested and internalized the red pill so much, i cannot remember what it was like to actually live and feel the way he felt. I KNOW i occupied that space, but life has changed so much for me since i found and adopted the sphere and its core messages of internal change – i do not watch those videos of him and say ‘ya, i feel ya’.. i wince and i cringe.… Read more »
Jeremy,
That’s what makes talking about Rodger tricky. Stigmatizing Rodger’s stated motive, twisted as it became due to his psychosis, devalues men.
The challenge is spotlighting the common problem that Rodger shared, championing men, and holding the frame for solution, while avoiding the political trap of defending a crazed mass murderer.
I’m now reassessing Rodger as a Sleeping Beauty, not a Handsome Prince. He was too too passive.
I just wanted to thank everyone who’s related a story thus far. You may think they’re long, but I’m making a special effort to read (not skim) all of them. @Glenn, I think you’re reading me wrong here. 1. You’re entirely correct. The kid was on psychotropics and anti-depressants, but refused to take them after a while. The guy wasn’t right mentally, and I’m sure this was the root of his misanthropy. On a subconscious level, human being are attuned to behaviorisms, vocal cues and other subcommunications that another person is not mentally healthy. We often have to be taught… Read more »
[…] The Severing (The Rational Male) […]
@Glenn The idea that game could have saved this kid is absurd. He “failed” at game – how can you ignore that Rollo? Glenn, you repeat often in your comment that this kid was highly disturbed. I do not disagree with you on this point. You watched Stefan’s video about him, so I have to assume you’re likely quite familiar with Stefan’s major premises about mental illness. That is, that mental illness does not spring out of a vacuum, it is almost always traceable back to parenting. Since I believe you and I both are on the same page that… Read more »
[…] The narcissism of Elliot Rodger. Related: The psychosis of the effeminate male. Related: A psych analysis of Elliot Rodger. Related: Game could have saved lives. Related: Who is helping the youth? Related: Don’t be a raging incel. Related: The parallel between radical feminism and Elliot Rodger. Related: Game and Elliot Rodger. […]
One thing I’ve noticed about allegations that Elliot Rodger was a misogynist and attempts to attach this incident to the manosphere. Was he misogynist? He killed more men than women. He expressed a hatred of romantically and sexually successful, popular and happy women AND men, not solely women. The only hatred he expressed was to a system that he perceived shut him out of the mating market. That’s not a hatred of women, that’s a hatred of the system. So how can it be misogynist? The only way hatred of a system can be misogynist is if that system in… Read more »
I discovered Game through Vox Day and Dalrock in my mid-thirties by sheer accident. I was taught and attempted the usual blue-pill advice with the usual results with one exception. Married men, whom I sought for advice (they were the dating success stories, right?), kept telling me that marriage wouldn’t help with my sex drive, that I could have a wife and still be very lonely, that the ONLY legitimate purpose of marriage was having children. That was not what I read in the Bible, however. Better married than burning. Marriage demonstrates the relationship between Christ and his Church. I… Read more »
Like clockwork, they’re lining up on MSNBC to concoct baseless insinuations that the ‘Sphere is responsible for this evil mass-murder.
This was aired tonight, specifically targeting Return of Kings and Red Pill Room on Reddit (where Rollo did an enlightening Q&A a couple weeks ago): http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/misogyny-of-the-isla-vista-shooter-267940419891
Then there’s this horribly disjointed piece with Jessica Valenti and a ‘mom against gun violence’ where they’re talking about two wildly different, palpably awkwardly tied-in issues – and Chris Hayes is falling all over himself to segue smoothly from one topic to the other: http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/did-mens-rights-movement-inspire-shooter-267950147784
@Rollo > They resort back to the only thing they knew, Beta Game Sorry, but this description of Puahate is completely incorrect. The mantra on that site was “Looks, Money, Status”. They believed feminine attraction was mostly primal instinct based on masculine aesthetics and actual social power. Also, FYI, the rules on that site stated it was a “troll forum”. The site population was largely trolls, post-pua gamers, and gay guys into male beauty. And trolls. It was the kind of place that makes absolutely no sense on a cursory reading, so it’s no surprise that both PUAs and Feminists… Read more »
Also I highly suspect that “chris” is some kind of feminist troll. Rodgers manifesto directly stated he wanted women put into concentration camps. He was clearly a misogynist, hateful misanthrope, and so on. Hopefully nobody is trying to salvage his reputation. If you are, move on to the successor site for puahate.
Softek, “I am still struggling with self-destructive behavior, and I’m having problems implementing Game into my life despite reading about it for months …” One possibility, which has worked for people in similar situations, is to focus on, and dedicate as much time as you possibly can, to something that is part of your ongoing development, but which will give you immediately achievable, and ongoing, measurable results, like bodybuilding or strength training. This, in and of itself, will not implement Game into your life, or provide all of the necessary catalysts of which you were deprived throughout your life. The… Read more »
I don’t want to be too forthcoming about a former mentor of mine who’s now broke, down-and-out, and helped me a lot with my inner work – but PUAHate actually was the source whereby we vetted this former mentor’s claims and found him to be acting dishonestly. It was actually a useful site for vetting purposes. The cached links didn’t lie.
Softek (thanks Eon for the heads up to help a struggling brother out) – I think you’ve gotta put yourself out there. Volunteer meetup groups, happy hour groups, church groups – there are social resources with people just like you who would love to connect with you and form new friendships…and women who’d want more. There is a seriousness to that level of self-harming tendency and you’ve gotta move forward from that. Consider getting out of your house especially at night. One easy way to ease into the bar scene is to go, find a seat, ‘watch the game’ and… Read more »
This is the price of unrestrained female hyper-gamy. This is it. Back when civilization was not in rapid decline some father would have given this kid his virgin daughter knowing better than her that this guy would take care of her and his grandchildren. The sex would have dissolved his anger and he’d have been fine. Now we select for thugs and criminals because that’s what women left to their own devices choose to sleep with – too bad you can’t base a civilization on it. This kid killed a bunch of people because he’s been lied too all his… Read more »
[…] The Severing | […]
If I were to dabble in armchair psychology I’d say it looks like an open and shut case of Narcassistic Rage. With plenty of rage.
You would not believe how many divorced men find themselves in lethal situations, many of my clients told me that they were comtemplating suicide…but, ulitmately decided to live for the sake of children, God, parents..you name it. I have mentioned it several times that the vast majority of men are slaves and “nice guys”. They WANT to sacrifice for women, they WANT to slave them, they WANT their soul myth romance to happen. Almost EVERY married guy is somehow “nice guy”. HE BELIEVED his wife, to the extent that he had sacrificed his freedom for her….ultimately nice guy. When you… Read more »
@Hobbes “living in constant Alpha mode can be its own hell as well and something not even natural Alphas do 100% of the time, or MGTOW and really sacrifice all contact at all. You have to find your own balance, your own way. There is no short cut” Quite insightful and very true. As Rollo notes, it’s us making our own individual plan based on a map of sorts. What’s good for one may not be good for another, and the rules you write in your life plan do not always apply. I’m one of those “natural alphas” after a… Read more »
Journalism at it’s best… now Creatine is to blame for ‘virgin killer’.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2641297/Friend-tells-virgin-killer-turned-angry-getting-addicted-body-building-drug-creatine-quest-women.html
Creatine? Oh man, they’re really reaching now.
So a guy hates women and men pretty much equally, and despises the manosphere. He kills four men and two women. The press message then is:
Misogyny
#womenarevictims
Stupid manosphere dunnit!
weightlifting is bad!
No, we don’t have an anti-male culture, nah, it’s all an illusion.
Funny how the mass media will blame the rampage on anything other than his (relatively late) virginity, while calling him the “virgin killer”. The presumption of female entitlement to full sexual control is so deep, that the notion that a healthy society requires that women give it up cannot even be hinted at. If you reversed the scenario entirely. If you had a society where men were given indisputable financial control of their lives at all times and were extraordinarily picky w.r.t. who they gave their extra production to, it wouldn’t look much different. Yes, most men are currently fairly… Read more »
Jeremy “If you reversed the scenario entirely.” Why even use financial analogy. Let’s just flip it entirely as it stands today. Imagine men were universally chased by women, they had an urge have sex everyday because they produced eggs every day. Men only build up sperm and go into ‘heat’ few days a month. All the burden is on them to make the move, garner attention of men, compete and fight for men by having to work out every day to become slimmer and hotter and more submissive than the next woman. Men could pick up relationships on a whim,… Read more »
@ M3 interesting. But imagine, men do not give a fuck about recognition by women, imagine that men need and see her just as a disposable sex tool…imagine that men tamed their ego, their nature of a slave to women, their innermost need to please and satisfy woman, to provide and protect her. Imagine they stop to see interests of women as more important to their own ones. Imagine they see women as they are – ultimately sexual creatures, creatures of flesh. Imagine that they PREFERRED sex with high class hooker to relationship with less beautiful woman…it is all about… Read more »
First of all, another brilliant article Rollo. Whether “Game” could have saved this “Virgin Killer” (as they are so happy to deem him), is an interesting debate. However, much like Rollo pointed out, you have to accept YOU are the one who needs to change, and I think with mental illness that is tougher than any red pill to swallow. You have to admit that you NEED to change, or all this reading and understanding is all but wasted. Our society wants everything to be a quick fix, quick diagnosis, immediate validation (social media), somebodyelse’s fault, but internalizing “Game” (which… Read more »
Elliot Rodger’s manifesto didn’t indicate positive masculinity, a/k/a inner game, which is an essential element of the red pill emphasized throughout the different factions of the Manosphere.
I truly believed this website along with No More Mr. Nice Guy! helped change my life for the better. For so many years I had everyone fooled that I was this cool, got his shit together guy but deep down I was a mess. I was a failure in almost ever aspect of my life from finances to women. I was a beta pushover that let everyone walk all over him and came back for more. I never disagreed, rocked the boat or had my own opinions. This site along with the above mentioned book helped me to let my… Read more »
What I find interesting is how effectively feminism has managed to shape the conversation through framing, so that no even the people who disagree with feminism are forced to talk within feminism’s frame. There’s any number of topics that feminism has effectively prevented anyone from talking about: 1. The trainwreck of socially acceptable dating advice. This guy is a psycho, but he reflects what non-psychotic guys (who drown their disappointment in wasting time and) experience – they keep hoping women will approach them, or they smiled at a girl once and she looked away, and they think this how others… Read more »
Tyler’s response to the MSM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx3rkgqTWJ8
Doesn’t get better than this lol Curious to see how the MSM will respond to him telling guys to fix their own problems and take responsibility and the montage in the middle of having girls make out with eachother and spank eachother lol
Slothrop said, “Of course everyone now needs to go through the act of “ritual disownership” and you obviously do to.”
Be careful doing that. As Paul Rivers points out, the feminists are busy framing the narrative around Elliot Rodger to serve their agenda. A “ritual disownership” that, in its rush to bug out, cedes the frame to the feminists on the warpath will result in wider destruction.
As far as whether Rodger was a misogynist, context matters. Rodger hated on women, yes, but he hated on women and men in a dyadic sexual context. Misogynistic doesn’t accurately describe Rodger outside of a description bundled with misandrist and misanthropic.
Rodger is more accurately described as anti-human-sexuality.
His enemy was man’s sexual nature, especially the derivative effects that hurt him, which were embodied in the “popular” and “cool” sexual women and men among his peers.
And people went apeshit when I posted that sex was a ‘need’:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/06/26/you-need-sex/
Not so crazy now is it?
“when my son is 13 or 14 I am going to take him to a big mall downtown and pay him $5 for every approach he makes and I’ll give him $20 for every number he gets from a chick. I will show him a huge wad of cash to motivate him and let him know he only has a few hours to do the deals. No fear, go get em son!”
Good God… This is brilliant! I’m doing the same with my son. What a fantastic idea.
All fathers should be coaching their sons on approaching, the same way mothers coach their daughters on looking their best.
Comedian Chris Hardwick had a pearl of wisdom so great even he doesn’t comprehend its awesomeness. It’s the meme of the year:
“You can’t tell the Internet not to do something!”
The obvious corollary: even insiders at WordPress and BlogSpot can’t take down ANYTHING. It will pop up again, cached, somewhere. As John Oliver noted, ask the Spanish guy who got the EU court to force Google to take down the news of his house foreclosure, citing “privacy.” From now on, that house foreclosure is the only thing that guy will ever be known for.
“when my son is 13 or 14 I am going to take him to a big mall downtown and pay him $5 for every approach he makes and I’ll give him $20 for every number he gets from a chick. I will show him a huge wad of cash to motivate him and let him know he only has a few hours to do the deals. No fear, go get em son!” – F#ck Yes.
Same with lifting weights and at least 1 sport. That stuff needs to be PRAISED and REWARDED
Put me down as one who sees nothing in this other than a case of malignant NPD with its roots in childhood years before his rejection by his first crush.
No; game would not have saved him, a girlfriend would not have saved him – he was already lost before the issue of girls ever entered his mind.
His narcisism was not the result of his interactions with women; his interactions with women were the result of his narcisism, which made him a pretty nasty little piece of work.
I wonder…for every guy like this that goes out in a killing spree, how many more boys and men just shoot or hang themselves. The suicides, apart from friends and family, just become anonymous statistics.
Feminist voices are doing the predictable: making it about women, perpetual victim-hood, and a justification for more control. I think in a feminist totalitarian utopia, loser males would be identified and drugged and/or rounded up…perhaps put in camps or forcibly segregated somehow. As it stands today, I think women-as-a-whole would prefer men like Eliot to just quietly shoot themselves. Male disposability.
FEMINISM IS PUAHATE CENTRAL.