Beta Fucks

beta_fucks

I had an interesting experience last Friday. I had finished a good workout and was on my way home when Bebé Tomassi texted me asking if I would pick up a sandwich for her from Subway and bring it to her at a school function. Sure, why not.

I get into the local Subway at around 6:30 pm and it being a Friday night and Subway isn’t the most happening place to be on a Friday, I’m there with only a couple ahead of me in line. The woman looked to be late 20’s, I’d guess 27-28, and not too bad looking – 5′ 9″-10″, blonde – if she’d been dressed better she might rate a 7 on the Tomassi scale. The guy she’s with was thin, short mop of hair, about the same height, maybe around her age.

What made them notable was the gender dynamic between them I picked up on immediately. Within the first 3 minutes of coming up behind them in line the guy had made every Beta tell I think Roissy has a term for. When I got in line he was hugging up on her from behind, leaning in and she stood there like a tree. His posture and body language, as well as his attitude instantly told me this couple’s relational dynamic – he was the qualifying Beta and she was the mouthy, hard-to-please Hyena.

She noticed me when I came up. I was the only other person in Subway and I still had my gym clothes on. Some top 40 crap song came on the overhead and she blathered out, “I hate this shit music. They should put Metallica or Slayer on, that would be funny.” as if she expected the Beta to ask the management to switch stations. She gives me a glance as if offering an opening after that comment. I order my daughters sandwich.

“No! Don’t get me lemonade, it’s too syrupy here, get me diet Dr. Pepper.” she belts out to the Beta dutifully getting their drinks. The sandwich artist asks here what she’d like on her sandwich – reaches over and touches my forearm (IOI, kino) “This might take a while, I’m very choosy”, she says to me in her ‘tone’.

“I’m not in a hurry.”

Sandwiches get made, Beta pays. My girl’s sandwich is done at the same time (she’s not too choosy), and as Alpha Girl and Beta Boy are about to leave she grabs both their sandwiches and mine ‘by mistake’. The Subway cashier stops her to tell her she picked up my sandwich (remember, we’re the only people in the store), Beta puffs a nervous laugh, she looks at me, “Ohh, sorry,..” hands me the bag and holds eye contact just that beat longer than normal.

“Come on we gotta go.”, Beta reaches around her waist, and like the cane that pulls a bad actor off the stage, they exit.

Passive Game

I did nothing to actively Game this girl, she was Gaming herself. I’ve seen this before. There’s a branch of Game (I think Roosh mentions it) that speculates that sometimes girls will Game themselves and all you need to do is not fuck it up. Sometimes less is more; when a woman is already attracted to you, Game becomes remaining aware of the indicators, allowing the proper flow and just presuming the sale.

I preface today’s post with this because it ties in nicely to a particular discussion last week’s post sparked. I’ll admit, being married kind of puts a Man in a ‘nothing to lose’ perspective. A lot of guys like to speculate that a wedding ring makes a man more desirable – it doesn’t. If married men are at all attractive to women it’s not due to some fantasy of preselection by his wife making him more attractive as a long term prospect; it’s because, generally, he’s not actively pursuing women. There’s a certain power in indifference – you’re far more desirable when you aren’t qualifying yourself to women, and no guy is more indifferent than one who knows with all certainty who he’ll be banging that evening.

However, there is also an amplification of attraction and arousal for a more Alpha man when a woman is in a relationship with a man she perceives as Beta. A similar amplification also becomes heightened when a woman is the focus of one or more Beta orbiters. The persistent affirmation by, and supplication of, Beta men puts that Alpha in a spotlight. A constant atmosphere of Beta attention and concern has an effect of preselecting that (more) Alpha Man for a woman. A common complaint many Beta men share is being an emotional tampon for a woman, listening and commiserating with her about the ‘asshole boyfriend’, only to have her desire for him become more amplified and off she goes for her desired sex with him again. The Beta(s) rationalizes this as ‘a moment of weakness’ for his special girl, but is unaware that his constant Beta affirmations contribute to her attraction to that Alpha.

As I stated, I wouldn’t have had to apply much Game to the Subway girl – the Beta boyfriend had already done a lot of the heavy lifting. This particular dynamic is something to remember if you’re Gaming a girl with a boyfriend or a girl who drops a boyfriend disclaimer into casual conversation. A girl’s boyfriend may not be the Beta this guy was, but if he is, let that form the basis of your Game. I should also add that this ‘Beta does the lifting’ dynamic is the root of AMOGing and running boyfriend destroyer Game. You should also be aware when this tactic is being run on yourself.

Husband = Beta

Now before you think I’ve gone completely mercenary, this incident made me think of this comment from last week’s post from Lucas Bly:

So essentially, I’m reading the last four paragraphs of your essay to read:

“She married you because you are a provider, not because she was attracted to you. She’ll never be as attracted to you as she was to her previous Alpha Fucks.”

That’s a tough pill to swallow, my brother.

The issue being, of course, what to do with yourself, and with her, after you discover you got gamed into that kind of marriage.

Here’s a tougher pill to swallow, she’ll never be as attracted to you as she is of the guy’s she sees as Alpha after you’re married too.

In the interests of full disclosure, Lucas had petitioned me earlier about his particular situation being similar to the guy in Saving the Best. What the kid in the Subway made me think of was a wondering if he had at one time been relatively Alpha enough to attract this dominant woman, or if she perceived him in a good provider role. She certainly fit the script of the 27-29 year old woman looking to cash out of the SMP before her attractiveness capital (such as it was) expired. But on the other hand, she wasn’t averse to giving a perceptual Alpha IOIs right under his nose. It’s an interesting passive cuckolding effect.

Lucas’ musings prompted the question: Does an Alpha (perceptually) drop in status for a woman once he’s committed to monogamy with her?

One common situation I get from newly red pill men is that after a few years they find themselves trapped in a sexless marriage or living arrangement and they want to know how to get back to the hot monkey sex they had (or their wives had with previous lovers) in the early stages of their relationship. Once they become red pill / Game aware and realize what they are and how they got there, the next question is how to get back to what he had before.

The question is usually along the lines of “Help Rollo, I used to be really Alpha back in the day, but now my wife sees me as a Beta provider, what do I do?” Virtually every man on the Married Man Sex Life forums looks for a solution there for some variation of this situation, but is it that marriage itself, by it’s very nature predisposes a woman to view her husband in a Beta status? The go-to definition is Beta Provider, not Alpha provider.

Hypergamy being what it is, it’s Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks; if a woman, being the arbiter and decider with whom she will pair-off with in the long term, has agreed to commitment with a man, it would follow that on some level (whether true or not) she believes this man will be a provider and parent for her and future children. So the question then isn’t so much about a man backsliding to Beta after having been considered Alpha enough to fuck the woman who would be his wife, that may be, but rather it’s the familiarity and provisioning that define marriage makes a woman consider him Beta-provider by default.

Dr. Warren Farrell explored this in some of his writing. He posited that the familiarity of marriage predisposes women to consider their husbands as family members, thus the concept of sex with a family member is repelling for women. This is further complicated by parenthood; when boyfriend becomes husband, and then husband becomes Daddy, the family familiarity dynamic makes having sex less and less appealing.

I think there may be something to this, but when you combine it with a fattening and less appealing Daddy, and Mommy, the complex worsens. Thus any strange, outsider, Alpha becomes the stuff of fantasy for women.

Burninator picks up the narrative:

“After the marriage, sometimes just a few short years, then we hear of the sexless husband, fully betatized, begging for sex. But based on his previous experience with the woman, what should he have been looking for to tip him off?

My question is pointed more towards the men who are alpha who get duped.”

He’s referring of course to the husband in the Saving the Best post. I’m not entirely sure most guys, and especially men with a Beta mindset, are very receptive to the red flag warnings telegraphed by women, but Deti makes a good stab at it:

1. A guy in that situation should take note of the kinds and types of men she was attracted to/fucked before. Huge red flag if you are markedly different from those kinds of men. For example: She used to date guys in shitty bands and small time pro athletes. But she’s now taken quite a shine to mid level business managers and guys with steady jobs. Indicates she’s changing lanes; going for the beta bucks. This woman is for dating; not for marriage.

2. She was a slut with other guys; makes you wait; then when she finally does take the plunge, the sex is of pornstar quality. Seems to be putting on an act; a performer on stage.

3. Entitlement mentality surrounding sex. To her, sex is a commodity which she uses as a currency for exchange. She expects something in return for giving you sex.

4. Firmly controls the sex. Won’t do certain things; will have sex only at certain times; doesn’t like certain sexual acts because “only sluts do THAT” and “I don’t want you to think I’m a slut”. Immediately gets up after sex to expel the semen because “I don’t want to get a yeast infection” or to take care of the wet spot.

5. Closely related to this is that she remains in control of herself during sex. Never seems to be completely free or enjoying herself; always assessing her own performance and your evaluation of her sexually.

6. Wants to move rapidly to commitment. Puts out overt and subtle hints that she expects ever increasing investment and commitment in exchange for the sex she’s doling out.

These are pretty good tells for a woman looking to cash out of the SMP with a provider, but again, I’m not entirely convinced that women in the Epiphany Phase of life are reserving these tells exclusively for Beta men.

Validational Sex vs. Transactional Sex

Commenter jf12 brings us to the heart of the matter:

At J4G we were discussing validational sex vs transactional sex. I pointed out it was really primate alpha sex vs beta sex. In alpha sex, the female gladly services the male, and she gladly pays him (bananas and grooming). In beta sex, the female ungratefully requires servicing from the male, and demands payment from him (bananas and grooming).

It should also be noted that when a female primate does engage in a transactional sex exchange with a Beta male, it’s during the down cycle of her menstruation (point of lowest potential fertility). As with female primates (including humans), when she is in the proliferative phase of her menstrual cycle (just pre-ovulation, and the highest potential fertility) her biochemistry predisposes her to seek out the sexual attentions of more Alpha (masculinized) ‘good genes’ males.

I covered this fundamental at length in Schedules of Mating. Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks is the behavioral manifestation of feminine hypergamy and the dualistic nature of women’s sexual strategy as prompted by female biology. From an evolutionary / adaptive species-survival standpoint, women’s sexuality is nothing if not pragmatic and often opportunistic.

Most often when I’m asked the “How do I get my wife to fuck me again?” it’s coming from a man who once thought he had the best his wife had to offer, sexually, emotionally, etc. only to discover she had or still has the potential to be much more than he can coax from her or she’s willing to give to him. Again, I have to come back to the question, does his being her husband make her impression of him Beta by default?

I’ve had the premise that only Beta men consider getting married thrown at me on occasion. I think this presumption may be putting the cart before the horse – maybe, eventually, a man cannot help but be perceived as a Beta by his wife because he is her husband, a parent and provider (or should be). Many divorced men express disbelief when they discover just how wildly sexual their ex-wives can be with their new lovers. They take it as some personal failing that they were unable to bring out the slut in their wives when they were married, but I might argue that their position as husband and father made this impossible for them.

There’s a lot more I could write about this. What do you do if you find yourself in this situation? Leave, divorce, cheat on her? That may be enough to push past that comfortable familiarity. I can think of one married blogger who’s husband cheated on her with the result being her unconditional submission. Dread Game, both overt and soft dread, might cut through that familiarity. Strong Frame control is the lynchpin to a good relationship, ensuring that your SMV is above that of your wife or LTR, and knowing the power this has can keep an Alpha impression functional.

However, in the end, you have to evaluate the worth of changing yourself in order to reestablish that Alpha sex connection. If divorce isn’t an option for you due to religious convictions, then you’ll have to factor that into your evaluation. If not, then you’ll have to consider the depth and importance your commitment means to you versus the effort (or even having to make an effort) you’ll make to reestablish yourself. You’ll need to consider this with all the logic and rationalism at your disposal, divorced from emotional considerations – most times that’s the most difficult part. You’ll want to couch your decision making process based on Relational Equity, but you have to set aside that emotionalism and use cold pragmatism.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Stingray
6 years ago

Jeremy, I was going to say that it could be a conversation as she will likely respond somewhat (tell me about my eyes) but I think you’re right. Regardless, this is typically what women want in a deep conversation with a man. If she’s smart, she will ask intelligent questions and let the man teach her something and keep the conversation going that way, but it does still end up being a tailored lecture at that point. This looks like another rock under which the FI has created semantics to be used to covertly demand domination under the guise of… Read more »

Kate
Kate
6 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

It look remarkably like a toothbrush cup 🙂 And how is your toothbrush cup?

(Its nice that we can get over our differences and have these normal conversations.)

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

Jeremy- “No, that’s a tailored lecture (if not raw game), not a conversation. A conversation goes back and forth by definition. It’s only game if speaker knows it’s game. It explains why sometimes I get doe eyed looks from women when I’ve been talking about esoteric subjects that only I find interesting. What Stingray is describing is why an otherwise gifted and brilliant professor puts a hundred students to sleep and why the cowboy poet holds a room whilst talking about calf scours. It’s in the story telling. I had never considered that there might be tingles generated by stories… Read more »

Sao Feng
Sao Feng
6 years ago

EEGuy:

There are perfectly legit ways of stashing away assets from women. Hell, even if one gets hit by divorce court with monthly payments to the ex-wife, there’s always a way out. Hint: watch the cash flows going to the divorce court.

Pre-nups are next to worthless as they’re like an addendum to the main marriage contract.

Westcoaster
Westcoaster
6 years ago

Great article, this is a little off-topic but more referring to a part in the article of the woman shutting off sex. This was a conversation at my work place … I kid you not, all women in the room except me. A recently married co-worker (she’s not hot) was bragging about how she’s not having sex with her husband (married about a month) and that it’s not going to happen. This not-hot-at-all woman/heavy-set was almost gloating, a badge of honor. I was stunned and even more shocked that the women at our lunch table were practically high-fiving her. I… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Westcoaster, you seem to have done the right thing. A face of stone with no expression can convey disapproval but not in a way that can be objected to.

If you have another place to go work, then you could have asked, “So, when is the divorce?” in a chirpy, cheerful tone.

Jeremy
6 years ago

My nit picking isn’t directed at Stingrays understanding or ability to understand. Definitions of words are valuable to men because they form a structure on which a meritocracy (a male power structure) can function. Without clearly (almost mathematically) defined success, there’s no way to “win” anything. Men are born to compete, and clearly defined words form the rules by which those competitions are engaged in. Those same definitions seem to be covertly remade by women purely to extract whatever is valuable from those same power structures. This fluid definition of “deep conversation” is an example, albeit an awkward one. I… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
6 years ago

Glenn, I wish wish wish it was otherwise. The number of times I’ve had a woman enthuse about my (stultifyingly simple, at base) manual occupation and gone “Gee whillikers, that’s ace! I’ll show you how if you like. Yes for nowt, well maybe.. ” (yes, you guessed it, for a drinky-poo or two). The answers range from the predictable (too busy, cold, bored etc.) to the frankly outlandish (no, I don’t want to do all that, just kinda upsum it and Tell Me How). Give me The Secret, sensei! Added for Jeremy: “that’s a tailored lecture (if not raw game),… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
6 years ago

Mmm thought I’d better check, because I know what you lot are like .. that’ll be a 4000-series Commodore and ZX80 kits. Seems like the late iron age or something – no CCTV, no cellphones, not even calculators until just then, one each of (1) state-provided telecoms, utilities, transport and broadcast media (OK one-and-a-half), no wandering round Europe on a day trip, shops open 9-5 and a half-day Wednesday and Saturday, no Sundays. Everything shut down tight at 10 p.m. after opening at 5 pm (plus lunchtimes) including boozers and eateries) and definitely no women getting served in the pubs… Read more »

Stingray
6 years ago

It is interesting to see even red pill women needing a fluid definition for those things they want from men. That is not an accusation. I understand that this is not an accusation, but I am confused. I meant this whole thing (link to comment just in case) to be a caricature of an impossible alpha and intentionally blue pill. What is my mistake? He has to be simultaneously sensitive and masculine. The strong silent type who will have deep meaningful conversations, often. Make lots of money and have all the time in the world to spend time with and… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
6 years ago

Hay Stingray! I know that exact guy! Name of Grey, Christian Grey.

A millionaire superstud, who never does any work, dominates all who cross his path with a mere glance (what, even scaffolders? I’d pay to see that), is personally extremely fastidious to the point of gheydom and beyond, and never, ever fucks around. I mean like never, gottit? And hasn’t ever got legless/wasted or been in a fight, either. What a diamond geezer.
Whaddyamean, he’s made-up?

Richard
Richard
6 years ago

Take it a bit further down the rabbit hole…. men have a tendency to blame themselves and then find ‘solutions’ to the problem that rely on them doing things…. fixes in effect….. All fine and good from a male stand point. My experience and research indicates that no amount of redpill or betterment makes any real or lasting difference where women are concerned… if it did wealthy handsome alphas would settle down with lovely women having attracted the cream of the crop, and they would be happy. What happens instead is that even the best alphas on top of their… Read more »

jf12
jf12
6 years ago

@Richard, the point of alphaness is NOT to get better women, but to get get more of them.

BlackPoisonSoul
6 years ago

@jf12 @Richard – the point of Alphaness is to have an amazing life without being controlled by women. Vapid types come and go, whatever happens YOUR life is awesome. If someone shows or not is irrelevant, if she’s worth having around longer-term is irrelevant, the quantity or lack thereof of women is irrelevant.

Not being controlled by your dick is what’s relevant. Not being a slave or fool is what’s relevant (Rollo did a post). Not making vagina the center of your world is what’s relevant.

Eris
Eris
6 years ago

“the point of Alphaness is to have an amazing life without being controlled by women……If someone shows or not is irrelevant, if she’s worth having around longer-term is irrelevant, the quantity or lack thereof of women is irrelevant.” Exactly right. This is really the only thing which is within every man’s control. The irony is if you don’t care and enjoy your life without making women the centre of it, they will often want in – such as it is when a man understands and transmits his innate value to those around him. Mgtow or not, if a man is… Read more »

Stingray
6 years ago

Tam the Bam,

And there is one of him for every single one of us, right? Our own special guy who just gets it.

(I am happy to say that it took me a couple of minutes to figure out who Christian Grey is.)

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[…] modern seduction literature for men, the guide’s advice is known as push-pull technique and the “women love jerks” […]

Emperor Lu Bu
6 years ago

Rollo, sorry to not be responding to this particular post (as I dislike when others do this kind of thing over at Show Me), but I’m under the gun for a printing deadline, and your answer to this question will determine the prefacing article I use before the word. How do YOU pronounce the word “MGTOW”? I’ve been saying “EM-gee-tao” (like “cow”) this whole time, but recently saw a YouTube video where a guy pronounces it “MIG-tao”. I’m willing to use either way, but I’d prefer to use whichever YOU use, as I respect the most of what I’ve seen… Read more »

datbro
datbro
6 years ago

“If married men are at all attractive to women it’s not due to some fantasy of preselection by his wife making him more attractive as a long term prospect; it’s because, generally, he’s not actively pursuing women.” I don’t agree with this at all. I’m a 23 year old guy, and my life experience has led me far away from women. I’ve gone completely MGTOW, I don’t look at them, I don’t initiate conversation with them, I only speak when spoken to. The girls I get with, while very rare in occurrence (I ended my “player” days at 21), tend… Read more »

Emperor Lu Bu
6 years ago

Hey, datbro – good story! I’m always glad to hear of another MGHOW living life unfettered by societal pressures to produce and procreate. For you (and Rollo)… I’ve finished a book (one of VERY FEW that come up when you enter “MGTOW” in an Amazon search) in which the main character espouses strong MGTOW principles throughout. It is realistic in an ACTUAL reality kind of way. I just know that feminist dogma has worked itself unapologetically into EVERY entertainment medium that we know, so I wanted to put something AWESOME out there to even the odds a bit in our… Read more »

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[…] I lost the following ten minutes of my life to reading about “alpha fucks and beta bucks” and still didn’t quite know what hypergamy really was (thank god for Wikipedia, I suppose). I could, however, make out that it was thinly-disguised pseudo-science to cover for gender privilege and mysoginy (kind of like economics can sometimes be thinly-disguised pseudo-science to cover for class privilege). Here is a choice quote from the linked article: […]

Kara
Kara
5 years ago

Hello there. I just found this on our family computer. One would have to assume my husband has been reading it to get some advice/tips. It has been interesting to read all of this and believe me I have followed all of it. Maybe you just have it completely wrong. Men reading this stuff will try it on their wives. In fact some of these men are asking for your advice. Now I know why my husband has been playing stupid mind games lately and let me tell you this advice you are dishing out does not work. This little… Read more »

YOHAMI
5 years ago
Reply to  Kara

Hi Kara, what kind of mind games is your husband playing? also what was the situation before it, why does your husband think he has to look up for advise about how to do anything on you so you’re attracted to him?

Kara
Kara
5 years ago

I spend my whole time keeping this family together. Without me it would not be a family. I know why my husband is looking for answers. He is not happy that I have not been putting out. I don’t put out because I am exhausted having had 3 children under 3 running around for them all day and making this place function. My husband shows no interest in my activities and barely batters an eyelid at his children. He gets on the computer and looks at these stupid sites instead. Does that explain things??? I suppose your gonna tell me… Read more »

YOHAMI
5 years ago
Reply to  Kara

Kara, I’d suggest you start going out on girls nights and meet a man you feel like putting out with, then divorce this loser and get his money. Unless you have a better idea.

Kara
Kara
5 years ago

That is terrible advice and just enforces why this site is so damaging. We have 3 young children together. What are you nuts? At this current phase of our marriage I intend to give it my all and continue to try and have my feelings heard. I am not burn’t out just yet but him reading these sites is certainly not helping our family. Of course if it does come to divorce our children’s needs and feelings will be my top priority and not spending my life punishing my husband for his ignorance of my needs and only that of… Read more »

YOHAMI
5 years ago

That was not an advice, that was sarcasm, but intended to make you think what your options are. “I intend to give it my all and continue to try and have my feelings heard.” Also give your all to have his feelings heard. “his ignorance of my needs” What about your ignorance of his needs. “Seems crazy now doesn’t it that his priorities within our marriage is his loins and how much action they are getting.” Aint it crazy that you’re in a marriage where you only care about your own priorities, and you get online to trash his. Loading...

Kara
Kara
5 years ago

I have been trying to think of how to respond to that and all I can come up with is goodbye.

YOHAMI
5 years ago
Reply to  Kara

Have fun!

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[…] Beta Fucks […]

trackback
5 years ago

[…] explored this in detail in Beta Fucks and As Good As It Gets, but what I find ironic in light of Dalrock’s assertions about […]

joshsoowong
4 years ago

So… If you want to remain AF Don’t get married? Also, great narrative about the subway girl.

Omega Man
Omega Man
3 years ago

“…sometimes girls will Game themselves and all you need to do is not fuck it up. Sometimes less is more; when a woman is already attracted to you, Game becomes remaining aware of the indicators, allowing the proper flow and just presuming the sale.”

this is what my uncle refers to as, “STFU and let her talk herself out of her panties and into fucking you.”

Stoic101
Stoic101
2 years ago

Solid post, I would simply add that I think the husband use to be considered the alpha and still the sex fantasy. Just look at pictures of women in the early 1900’s with their eight kids. The man of the house was provider/’daddy’ and still banging her and pumping out children. I find it difficult to believe those housewives of a hundred years ago were fantasizing about Tom, Dick, and Harry in the next town over. Maybe they were fantasizing about other guys, I simply think they didn’t have time too. They dealt with their little army of children, breastfed,… Read more »

Stoic101
Stoic101
2 years ago

Honestly, a lot of sex (or having sex in general) just comes down to the available leisure time that people have. Girls of today have a shit ton of time on there hands, thus they can choose to have sex pretty much whenever, and men (dad or bf) will gladly pay for them to do so. It’s sort of like depression and anxiety (all of which are most likely related with sex and getting some) – but like for example with depression-people that have depression (I use too years and years ago, so I think I’m qualified to speak on… Read more »

bluepillprofessor
2 years ago

I just noticed how well the picture explains the concept of Beta Fucks and how creepy it really is. This is how you know which one you are guys! She is not happily snuggled against him breathing his scent, and relaxed. She is not even holding him or clutching him. She is on his level, challenging him with her eyes. Reading too much into it? Maybe, but I recently read a comment where Rollo notes that he chooses these pictures very carefully and that is how I see this slice of life.

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[…] modern seduction literature for men, the guide’s advice is known as push-pull technique and the “women love jerks” […]

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