Recently Marellus from Just Four Guys brought this to my attention:
Did you see how the womyn tore apart a commenter, by the name of Redlum, on Jezebel ?
Just because he said this :
Why does feminism have to antagonize and mock men all the time? Men are expected to have no vulnerabilities, this is an oppressive gender role. When men’s vulnerabilities are exposed, such as feeling emasculated or being insecure about women making them “obsolete”, that is a human emotion and gloating over it and mocking it is not only terrible, but also one of the big things giving feminism a bad name.
The top reply was this :
If being in a relationship with a woman who makes more money than you and/or has a higher position than you makes you feel that you are becoming obsolete, maybe you should be mocked for being silly, immature, and sexist. So now, on top of everything else that women have to deal with, we have to comfort men for freaking out whenever a woman surpasses them at something? I’m sorry – if you are in a group that has been privileged over/oppressive of other groups, you don’t get an apology and a reassuring hug every time we get a millimeter closer to some semblance of fairness and equality. Men need to suck it up and deal with life on more equitable terms like adults, without those who do just that expecting a medal for it.
Write a post on what this guy did wrong, if possible.
Redlum’s mistake was twofold. His first error was to ever overtly look for sympathy from a woman (women). We already know women lack the capacity for empathizing with the male experience, but sympathy is another side of the equation. One grave error most blue pill plug-ins make in this respect is a presumption that women owe them sympathy or that women are predisposed to sympathizing with them.
This is usually due to having been conditioned by the feminine for so long to believe that “Open Communication®”, sharing his feelings and being vulnerable will make him the ideal man. This is an unfortunate outcome of the ‘get in touch with your feminine side’ curse of Jung: in a similar respect to the myth of Relational Equity where a man expects his sacrifices and investment in a relationship will be a buffer against women’s Hypergamy, the expectation is that women will appreciate his openness and vulnerabilities. He believes the feminine identity lie that “vulnerability is strength.”
It’s a very seductive fallacy for a dyed-in-the-wool plug-in to make. I’ve read Redlum’s comments before and he doesn’t impress me as a chump, so I believe his comment on Jezebel was really more of a symbolic appeal to feminine reason. What he illustrates here is a common misgiving most Beta blue pill men subscribe to – that they will be perceived as unique, “not like other guys” in his embracing feminine vulnerability. And as you can see from the top Jezebel reply he was met with the same hostility women have for “vulnerable” men.
Hypergamy psychologically predisposes women to hold either contempt or pity for male vulnerability on a limbic level. Even in the most ’emotionally evolved’ women, by order of degree, Hypergamy is always testing for male fitness in order to assess whom she will pair with either in short term breeding availability or long term provisioning availability. When a man overtly expresses an openness to vulnerability, on a subconscious level it telegraphs his insecurity to her Hypergamous nature. Thus, she filters him out, or if she’s paired with him prior to this expression she initiates the mental protocol to leave him for a better match.
The contempt expressed by the Jezebel authoress is a good example of this.
So now, on top of everything else that women have to deal with, we have to comfort men for freaking out whenever a woman surpasses them at something?
You’re a man, suck it up, you shouldn’t be vulnerable by virtue of your maleness. It’s a conflicting message in light of the touchy-feely feminine conditioning men endure in their upbringing, but it is an honest reaction, and one that men need to understand when sorting out the reality of women and their need to unplug.
I’m not gonna write you a love song, cause you asked for one,..
The second (symbolic?) mistake Redlum makes is making an appeal for sympathy. In Empathy I outlined women’s gut-level, evolutionarily selected-for, lack of empathizing with the male experience. I defined the difference between empathy and sympathy, and while women might lack the means for that empathy, they have a very strong sense of sympathy. However that sympathy comes with conditions.
Women involved with high SMV Alpha Men can be some of the most genuinely, organically sympathetic women you’ll ever encounter. Granted, that sympathy may facilitate her own Hypergamous interests, but more so because that Alpha never petitions her for her sympathy.
Women give their sympathies of their own accord, never as the result of a man petitioning it from her. A woman must be inspired to sympathy for a man, asking for it is negotiating for her desire to be sympathetic.
A man who is intentionally vulnerable smacks of a guy who is so in an effort to qualify for her intimacy. It’s similar to the dynamic found in Play Nice, that niceness, that vulnerability that’s supposed to be strength, is perceived as a ruse to better identify with the feminine and thus be more acceptable to it. If feminine Hypergamy is fine tuned for anything it’s genuineness. That’s not to say women wont turn it to their social and biological advantages, but Hypergamy is always testing for certainty and authenticity. I’ve stated before that there is nothing more satisfying for a woman than to believe she’s figured a guy out using her mythical feminine intuition, this is a direct satisfaction of Hypergamy’s need for certainty, but I should also add that there is nothing more mortifying, rage inducing and produces more bitter tears than a woman who’s had her Hypergamy fooled by an imposter. Not only does this deception involve a loss of investment and resources to her, but it’s also an insult to her ego that her capacity to filter for authenticity isn’t as effective as she believes her ‘intuition’ actually is.
Suck It Up
The bigger picture in this Jezebel exchange is really about one of the most basic and useful social conventions ever devised by the Feminine Imperative – The Male Catch 22:
Man Up or Shut Up – The Male Catch 22
One of the primary way’s Honor is used against men is in the feminized perpetuation of traditionally masculine expectations when it’s convenient, while simultaneously expecting egalitarian gender parity when it’s convenient.
For the past 60 years feminization has built in the perfect Catch 22 social convention for anything masculine; The expectation to assume the responsibilities of being a man (Man Up) while at the same time denigrating asserting masculinity as a positive (Shut Up). What ever aspect of maleness that serves the feminine purpose is a man’s masculine responsibility, yet any aspect that disagrees with feminine primacy is labeled Patriarchy and Misogyny.
Essentially, this convention keeps beta males in a perpetual state of chasing their own tails. Over the course of a lifetime they’re conditioned to believe that they’re cursed with masculinity (Patriarchy) yet are still responsible to ‘Man Up’ when it suits a feminine imperative. So it’s therefore unsurprising to see that half the men in western society believe women dominate the world (male powerlessness) while at the same time women complain of a lingering Patriarchy (female powerlessness) or at least sentiments of it. This is the Catch 22 writ large. The guy who does in fact Man Up is a chauvinist, misogynist, patriarch, but he still needs to man up when it’s convenient to meet the needs of a female imperative.
This dualistic, conveniently conflicting, social convention is what defines a condition of ‘equality’ for today’s New Woman:
Men need to suck it up and deal with life on more equitable terms like adults, without those who do just that expecting a medal for it.
In other words suck it up when convenient and sack up when necessary. In a sense she’s not wrong– an intrinsic part of the male experience is not to complain about adversity, not to complain about pain and not to complain about suffering – in other words, Man Up, be strong and don’t let on to any vulnerability. If that sounds contradictory to a lifetime of feminine sensitivity training for men it should, but only because it’s half of the usefulness of the Male Catch 22. Where our Jezebeler drops the ball is the other half of the con – Man up and be useful, to women, to the Feminine Imperative. The problem is that equality only applies to what benefits the feminine, anything else that constitutes a man, constitutes masculinity, is a liability.
If being in a relationship with a woman who makes more money than you and/or has a higher position than you makes you feel that you are becoming obsolete, maybe you should be mocked for being silly, immature, and sexist.
There is also the option that Men may simply opt out of involving themselves in a relationship with said woman. In this case the Male Catch 22 is used to shame him for his insecurities not only by women for not participating in their potential provisioning, but also by a chorus of plugged in men ready to mock him for his lack of manhood (also in order to convince the feminine of their unique dedication to the imperative and hopefully get laid as a result of it). It’s at this point he’s derided for his ‘fragile ego’ and his ‘being threatened by strong independent women®.”
By virtue of his maleness, he literally cannot win, and any expression of this condition, even the questioning of this situation is then perceived as his complaining about it – and overt confession of vulnerability. What I’m describing here is the core issue blue pill, plugged in men have with Game and the red pill – just asking a question or making a critical observation about the feminine with regard to the male condition is always conflated with men complaining – something men aren’t allowed to do. It comes off as “poor men”, just as our Jezebeler recounts, but it distracts and discourages real discourse about those conditions.
That is how effective the Male Catch 22 is, it kills all critical inquiry before the questions can even be asked.
I’ve always heard, there are two reason you don’t wrestle with pigs: 1) you’ll get dirty and, 2) the pigs like it.
What I’ve found is that women will only support what benefits them and their future plans/visions. Also this is always in flux, the female prerogative to “change her mind” when it suits her. For example, she might have though it was cool and sexy that you played in a band when you met. But once the band interferes in any way with her plans, she will shame you and guilt you into spending less time on the very thing that attracted her to you. They will also expect you fall in line with any new expectations or changes in opinion… Read more »
Wouldn’t the positive masculine behavior then be to not even OVERTLY question the feminine imperative in any way or petition for empathy or sympathy? It doesn’t seem to me that either are pertinent or necessary for the methods or goals of an Alpha male.
Great post, Rollo. Your title evinces a 1990’s Van Halen song, Sucker In a Three Piece, which contains a small morsel of resonance message regarding women’s double standard of behavior and emotional receptivity around high SMV men vs. men that are perceived to be weaker, less alpha, less dominant, and thus more beta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgSW9Ipn0OI Since tightening up my game, cultivating confidence, spinning MLTR plates for the last 4+ years, I’ve found that women are so much more sympathetic and empathetic when weakness is not perceived. In fact, when I’m really crushing it, when my SMV is perceived highly, I need… Read more »
“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
― Mark Twain
Also interesting to note that the original Jez article refers to a tv show and a movie as examples of relationships. TV is not real life.
One of the first things I did when I took the red pill was to stop looking to women for emotional support, because I quickly learned that any sign of weakness is something they can pounce upon. Likewise, the more out of control a woman’s life is, the more stable she’ll want her man to be. Basically, be whatever it is she’s not, because she’ll need your attributes to make her a “whole” person.
And on the subject, this blog post reminded me of a time that really drove home how little American women care about men they’re not invested in. A few months ago I went out on the town with the girl I was seeing and a female friend of hers, as well as this model-esque beauty who I was just meeting that night. The model girl was constantly texting and typing away on her phone the entire time we were there. My girl asked how my weekend was, and I told her I had to go home because my grandmother was… Read more »
That is how effective the Male Catch 22 is, it kills all critical inquiry before the questions can even be asked.
Hmmmmmm….kinda sounds like another Catch 22 we should all be familar with, no?
“Do these jeans make me look fat?”
“.. the model girl stops texting, looks up, and asks “Wait, what happened?” So I re-told the story, essentially that my grandmother might be dying. Her response? “Oh.” “
You seem to be a deal more easygoing and relaxed than me, ng85.
I’d have been sorely tempted to reassure her with
“.. don’t worry, darling, you’ll never be a grandmother”.
“So, once and for all–could the entire concept of “vulnerability” simply be an evolutionary hack on the part of the XX chromosome, so that women can literally find a male’s reproductive fitness vulnerabilities and weaknesses?” Yes, this is correct. When the vulnerable guy exposes himself he signals low reproductive value and either becomes a tool or a criminal to the feminine imperative. He might as well be a terrible dancer, too. Male weakness is the most selected against personality trait in the human animal kingdom. Women are the daughters of brutal and dangerous men who scattered the brains out of… Read more »
Wow, top, top post.
“One of the primary way’s Honor is used against men is in the feminized perpetuation of traditionally masculine expectations when it’s convenient.”
This was a particularly enlightening post for me and made sense of the recent barrage of attacks on male fags.
“Women give their sympathies of their own accord, never as the result of a man petitioning it from her.”
Reminds me of the old Westerns where the hero is seriously injured and only grudgingly accepts help from the concerned heroine, usually only after he has passed out.
‘Redlum’ made a comment under a post about a journal article based on ‘research’ … Observation: In the final two experiments, conducted online, 657 U.S. participants, 284 of whom were men, were asked to think about a time when their partner had succeeded or failed. That’s 370 women, 284 men. Wait, some articles say 700 participants. So, 413 women, 284 men. The study was done online. As we’ve discussed in prior comment threads. Can research funding sources affect outcomes of peer-reviewed academic/scholarly journal work? What entities have funded the ‘Gender Differences in Implicit Self-Esteem Following a Romantic Partner’s Success or… Read more »
Are you sure that using Jezebel as an example is sound? From what I understand, the regulars there are some mighty bitter, angry, man-hating crones. Are normal women also that turned-off by displays of vulnerability?
It’s too bad ‘Redlum’ failed to purchase “The Rational Male” (book). He missed out on quoting its wisdom. If @Redlum is reading, you should quote from this (free of charge) post: http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/13/timeline-of-the-professional-woman/ A career man rarely sees a career woman as a good choice for a wife or an LTR, not because he’s ‘threatened’ by her status, but because he’s known and worked with enough of them once he’s reached 35+ years of age to steer clear of them. Men typically could care less what a woman earns or what she does to earn it – it’s simply not a… Read more »
1st mistake: Playing the vulnerability game. This is only advantageous if a man is hitting on a woman he is clearly hotter than. 2nd mistake: Showing an air of awe towards successful women. This is simply not required in any given situation. 3rd mistake: Even if a woman is beautiful, intelligent and successful, her worth is dominated by her look. This optimum look only has a short shelf life before decline creeps in. 4th mistake: Not acknowledging that women, in almost every circumstance, strive to be with a man of higher value. So just because she may have a better… Read more »
Before reading your blogs Rollo I would have fallen for this man’s message hook line and sinker.
https://www.facebook.com/theproblemismen#!/theproblemismen/photos_stream
1.1 million followers!
@Tam
I’d have been sorely tempted to reassure her with
“.. don’t worry, darling, you’ll never be a grandmother”.
Beautiful.
May I have your permission to put that on a shirt design?
It can be a hard lesson for many of us to learn. In my experience guys who grow up in a heavily female-influenced environment often unwittingly internalize the idea of “Open Communication®” (did you do a whole article on this topic?) and it can be a painful realisation that women don’t actually want to hear about your feelings, but rather expect you to be the fixed object at the centre of their orbit, so to speak. In the media we so frequently see the cliché of the woman taming the free alpha spirit, and him readily falling in line with… Read more »
The basic message is that women simply do not care! She cares about herself and her children. You are nothing but a TOOL. Normal men are not able to understand this one. They are not even willing to understand. I see romantic nature, this yearning for justice, goodness, soul-mates in almost every post of this blog, written by man. Our very willingness to live is dependent on recognition, sympathy of women. But, again – women do not care! So, what we would do now? I see quite different message in posts of women. For example living tree. She as a… Read more »
@DBM The MRAsphere would do well to change their marketing simply because of the truth of this post by Rollo. By attempting to directly protect male weakness and sensitivity to inequality they expose themselves as lower tiered targets of women’s scorn. If you value life differently than the equalists, we must accept that the “manosphere” may appear as the ultimate egalitarian. Regarding supposed “red pill women” Rol states: they’ll pretend like they’re somehow on the same team What “team” are these males on? Sites like Dalrock and a few others attempt to reorient “beta” males away from service of the… Read more »
All of the strong independent women® that I have worked for over the years have intentionally laid out a mine field for male employees to navigate through. Women of authority in the workplace are full of insecurities, fears, and irrational emotions. I never made any progress professionally until I found a company with a male management team where my strengths were put to good use, and I moved up quickly. Had I continued in the feminine workplace, I would still be navigating the minefield, I’d still be poor, and I’d still be wondering why my accomplishments don’t translate into rewards.… Read more »
This is opening my eyes….
I remember a several TV sitcoms (e.g. Rhoda) in my formative youth about where the woman was encouraging the man to be soft and cry…. so you’d think that’s what they wanted….. but what I didn’t notice until just now remembering it was the peals of laughter on the laugh track. That laughter was mocking laughter wasn’t it. And the slightly confused feeling I got as a boy as to what I should be doing was the correct instinctual response to being fucked with as a test.
I keep trying to get in touch with my feminine side, but she keeps slapping my hand away.
vulnerability is only really possible for the superior man.
when you have sufficiently demonstrated that you can control your emotions 100%, and in light of the physical, social, and mental dominance you exude, only then is it not just ok, but will cement you to the women around you.
yet given the above, this is only possible for maybe 3% of men. then yet again, that’s who Jezebelers are writing too…….the object of their affections.
Women really really really enjoy sympathizing with and soothing a wounded alpha male, even if he’s being all pouty e.g. about someone in the world not falling at his feet. Every woman does in fact feel that an alpha deserves the best, including her naturally, just like she feels she deserves the best. Thus it is only true of beta males that they are expected to “suck it up” themselves and “By virtue of his maleness, he literally cannot win, and any expression of this condition, even the questioning of this situation is then perceived as his complaining about it… Read more »
jf12:
Get in touch with your feminine side.
And then strangle that bitch.
@DT “certainly no longer “beta” males” On what basis do you assert such certainty?
This is one of the areas where I went off the rails with my (x)wife. For the longest time, I didn’t “open up” to her about feelings, then when things were going south, it was encouraged by almost everyone to “open up” tell her how you really feel .. from what i could tell (even in my BP/Beta Husband mindset), it just gave her a new club or two to beat me over the head with later on. My suggestion … Bitch to your Male friends, those that you trust with your own life, and you know have your back… Read more »
[…] is just feminist talk for the aspects of masculinity that do not serve the Feminine Imperative. Suck It Up | Don't fall for their bullshit, it's just another attempt to get the slaves back to the […]
Better yet, just go your own way and don’t even bother with them. Doing so is completely wasting masculine energy that could be far better used, to enjoy, to create.. People like Tesla come to mind. Great example.
@ Mark
“For example, she might have though it was cool and sexy that you played in a band when you met. But once the band interferes in any way with her plans, she will shame you and guilt you into spending less time on the very thing that attracted her to you.”
Then she’ll despise you even more for acquiescing to her demands.
Rollo, your most excellent post is decades too late (for me) but is very much appreciated in forgiving/understanding the most relevant heart break ever…..my mother.
I think his first and only mistake was expecting a reasonable response from a bunch of nasty raging bitches.
Seriously, why bother with them? Did he think he was going to change some minds in the hen house with his “facts” and “logic”? Those are just tools of the evil Patriarchy, and are no match for a womans mighty feelings, telling her shes right, this time and every time.
Good post though Rollo.
Likewise, the more out of control a woman’s life is, the more stable she’ll want her man to be. I’ve always felt that was a big part of why couples breakup after a death of a child. The father or husband isn’t allowed to grieve like he should be able to. If he does, he’s not being there for the wife/mother. But the hotter the girl, the more nasty, rude, or just plain socially retarded she’ll be. I actually don’t find that. I’ve found that the ones that I would call reasonably attractive, ones that have had their mother and… Read more »
Your reply was good but a bit long and a little in the weeds. “Why does feminism have to antagonize and mock men all the time?” Because feminism, like all neo-Marxist drivel, is the creed of selfish assholes and supremacists, that is less about actual sexism and more about cultural Marxist assertions and power plays. Their responses to intellectual challenge can all be predicted, not so much on hypergamy grounds, but with the rather ordinary neo-Marxist template “oppressor/oppressed” grievance pablum inculcated in the Universities. The Jezebel comments are shot through with it. Regular non-female neo-Marxists make the same sort of… Read more »
@ Different T At the end of the day it’s simply the improved odds of success with a higher quality vagina to give birth to your genetic progeny. An ugly, emotionally weak, innately inferior male who selfishly and deceptively plays the best card he can in the mating market will do for *himself* what society won’t – look out for his interests. I’m not interested in the broader philosophical implications of non truly “alpha” men swerving away from their intended destinies. I don’t care if civilization collapses and I don’t care if it goes against the natural order. I acknowledge… Read more »
“Write a post on what this guy did wrong” Unlike women (who didn’t have to prove their value to the tribe) men had to continually earn their place by demonstrating valuable qualities – Such as Courage, Honesty, Integrity and Self Sacrifice etc… to other men of the tribe. Over time these valuable qualities evolved to be an inherent part of the Male psyche. Instead of valuing them, women developed very effective methods and strategies of using the value men put on these virtues, to manipulate him into acting in way to benefit her. Over time these manipulative ploys evolved to… Read more »
Rollo, you wrote: “Hypergamy psychologically predisposes women to hold either contempt or pity for male vulnerability on a limbic level.” That means women will automatically reject men who show weakness or submissiveness, either to them, other women, or even other men. Young men still have the memory of their mother comforting them, when they were sad or hurt, fresh in their minds. But to look for that type of response from women that are potential mates is to ensure outright rejection, not attraction. This was a difficult truth for me to accept, and I’m not a young man. But as… Read more »
“You seem to be a deal more easygoing and relaxed than me, ng85. I’d have been sorely tempted to reassure her with “.. don’t worry, darling, you’ll never be a grandmother”.” In hindsight I could’ve called her out for it. After all, hot girls’ shitty behavior is a product of people being afraid to call them out on things. In the past when I was “gaming” girls I found it so much easier to “neg” an average looking girl than a gorgeous one, and still to this day I find my brain goes numb when I have to interact with… Read more »
Actually used this dynamic to my advantage in the past, to cleanly dissolve an LTR. Very attractive girl… she started throwing sloppy drunken fits, provoking me like a child, for no good reason… probably wanted to be “dominated” more, was trying to pull it out of me. I simply didn’t feel like it, it was just a plain drag. Been through enough to know that you can waste your life getting drawn into these kinds of histrionics. Soon as I saw crazy, I knew I was out, so I noped out of the situation by deliberately showing my “vulnerable” side.… Read more »
D-Man – “This is what feminism needs to learn: when you condition men to control their urges from birth, they will get good at it… but the agency they gain will be at their behest, not yours.”
This is gold right here. When man is told everything he does, thinks. and desires is wrong he will eventually choose to do what best serves his own needs.
This dovetails with a post I made a while back: The Myth of the Egalitarian Marriage . A married couple along with their two children are driving home from a weekend trip. As they round the corner their home comes into view. There are firetrucks and flashing lights. They simultaneously realize that their house has burned to the ground. One spouse emotionally melts down; turns to the other spouse; and with tears in their eyes and panic in their voice screams: “Oh my God! What are we going to do? Tell me, what are we going to do?” Which spouse… Read more »
I’ll suck it up, all right. I’ll suck it up and stick with women who are feminine. Gee, my loss, but I guess I gotta do it.
@D-Man said: “Is she really testing me to see if I can deal with life’s shit? Or is she testing me to see if I will consent to deal with HER shit?” Yes, to both questions. If you can’t handle the little bit of sh*t she (a little ol’ woman) throws your way, how can she be confident that you can handle a big load of sh*t that the world might throw at you? If you must take your child to the emergency room, and they tell you it will be a 7 hour wait, how will you handle it?… Read more »
Great post again Rollo! This article is a constant reminder to me how women just despise weak men. A previous commenter said it best, “if you need to complain, tell your male friends”…Never ever complain or look for sympathy in a woman about your issues, they will use it against you, and their respect for you drops instantly. I know a lot of men out there find this unfair, but this the “red pill life” and we are better for it. But the funny thing is, I have dated many women in my life, and when the proverbial “shit does… Read more »
Pffft. It’s not that I can’t handle it, it’s that I choose not to. It’s not worth it. It’s a losing investment. A sucking hole of the wrong kind. The first stage in an attempt to establish a Pavlovian response. It’s not real crisis. If I responded limbically to eveything a woman tried to put me to, I’d be too fried to deal with the real crises when they came. I decide what I need to get worked up over. That’s my point. Get it? Besides that, if I’ve already had a woman a hundred times, dropping her pleasant demeanour… Read more »
BTW nice try at the “not man enough” reframe attempt
This post is pure platinum. I recently nexted a girl who is a nanny for a rich couple. Despite her deep desire to have her own kids, The wife spoils her regularly in order to bribe her into contiuning to watch her kid…I’m talking purses shoes, a condo, you name it. Once the “you don’t care about me enough” histronics started I saw hypergamy rearing its demonic head. After a brief attempt at a sit-down talk, I saw the writing on the wall–I wasn’t beta enough and she expected me to spoil and dote on her and compete with her… Read more »
@8to12:
“I don’t think men do this consciously. It’s so hardwired into them they do it without even realizing they are doing it.”
Sound rapey?
In virtually relationship barring very short ones, they will always be an element of the woman using the man to unload her emotional instability, be it complaining, nagging or stroppy behaviour that will rear it’s ugly head with greater or lesser frequency. It’s just is the way women are – for them, anything that they deem is a crisis IS a crisis and and their self-centric nature allows them unload their woes onto the guy without a second’s thought – with only fleeting insights of “maybe I was a bit unfair to him” – if you’re lucky. Women, on the… Read more »
DBM
Thanks for a full-bellied laugh reading this statement:
“the blue pill alpha, a truly despicably dishonest pussy.”
Re: women surpassing. All men say, and all studies bear out, that men would prefer to be hypergamous too if they could. It’s women who will not let them. A man would always (always) prefer his wife to be richer, if she wouldn’t get an attitude. But she WILL definitely get an attitude. It’s not the man’s fault.
@ mark
You just described my last relationship…
Rivelino tweeted this today:
She wants a kind man who knows when to be tough. #bluepill
She wants a tough man who knows when to be kind. #redpill
@jf12
Women hate HATE HATE when you apply their strategies toward them. Indifference, callousness and lack of empathy being the top three. In their case unfortunately, being rich isn’t a requirement for attraction from males. This is why it makes no sense to hail their accomplishments. It turns them into men, albeit with much shittier dispositions and robs them of their ability to be pleasant and feminine
@Rollo
you suggesting we keep a stash of both in the apothecary?
In virtually relationship barring very short ones, they will always be an element of the woman using the man to unload her emotional instability, be it complaining, nagging or stroppy behaviour that will rear it’s ugly head with greater or lesser frequency. It’s just is the way women are – for them, anything that they deem is a crisis IS a crisis and and their self-centric nature allows them unload their woes onto the guy without a second’s thought – with only fleeting insights of “maybe I was a bit unfair to him” – if you’re lucky. Women, on the… Read more »
hmmm, there’s a name for a sponge that women use…
Yep Eris, you have nailed something here, in that when a woman offloads her emotional instability on a man – something he puts up with – she might actually see it as an investment. So him “opening up” to her in return would be, in her math, a counter investment that she must honor. Is this why a woman will remember the details you tell her in confidence and use them later against you, when guys rarely do that?
@DBM At the end of the day it’s simply the improved odds of success with a higher quality vagina to give birth to your genetic progeny. So you want kids now? I don’t care if civilization collapses and I don’t care if it goes against the natural order. So you want kids now, but don’t care what environment they inherit? Targeted baby-bashing good for you? Whether you or I “care” about what happens to the current civilization is not going to change the outcome. The question is: are you capable of more? I acknowledge the existence of hierarchy but believe… Read more »
@DT Regarding supposed “red pill women” Rol states: they’ll pretend like they’re somehow on the same team What “team” are these males on? Men have a vested interest in uncovering the truth. Blogs such as this are an excellent medium to exchange ideas and provide a constant reinforcement of “awareness”. We’re constantly bombarded with the feminine imperative. At home, work, school, church, TV/movies, music, etc. It permeates our everyday lives. You quite literally cannot escape it. It is a contradiction to believe women are comfortable with this. It takes away part of the tremendous leverage they’ve been given. They’re not… Read more »
@ D-Man I’m not sure whether women count it as a negative investment, although maybe. In the end those key chinks in a man’s emotional armour are carefully registered by her on some level. The fact she uses those details against him later on is more to do with a women’s style of arguing. Arguing with a woman about an issue close to her heart is like trying to reason with a child; no matter how irritated a man becomes he nearly always attempts to appeal to her reason in some way, in contrast women in arguments make no sense… Read more »
@ Rol Men have a vested interest in uncovering the truth. Blogs such as this are an excellent medium to exchange ideas and provide a constant reinforcement of “awareness”. We’re constantly bombarded with the feminine imperative. At home, work, school, church, TV/movies, music, etc. It permeates our everyday lives. You quite literally cannot escape it. It is a contradiction to believe women are comfortable with this. It takes away part of the tremendous leverage they’ve been given. They’re not even conscious of why they behave the way they do often times. Understood. The movement is still relatively small, but men… Read more »
It is a contradiction to believe women are comfortable with this.
Here is a different interpretation. The reason you are seeing Dr. Helen on Fox News, WSJ is publishing a feminist’s defense of masculinity, and “red pill women” are sprouting up like weeds is that they are genuinely scared. They are beginning to sense that these males are not playing along, are not turning a blind eye, are not “pussy whipped” (or whatever temporal emotion).
They are afraid the males are as weak, ignorant, and fundamentally incapable as they appear.
@Different T: Have you read The Threat yet?
http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/10/the-threat/
Over the course of a lifetime they’re conditioned to believe that they’re cursed with masculinity (Patriarchy) yet are still responsible to ‘Man Up’ when it suits a feminine imperative. I wonder which are the psychological consequences of this Catch 22 situation for boys. Sounds like an imprisonment. Signor Tommassi, you’re indeed a brilliant writer. I had read before a manosphere blog of an equally intelligent writer (which was shut down by the way on accusations of misogyny) in which he described how is a woman’s love. Actually he was mostly referring to and denouncing the feminist mindset. It resemble a… Read more »
The only reason the female gender succeeds at ANYTHING is because the male gender allows it.
“So you want kids now?” In the same way Frank Sinatra had a kid with Mia Farrow. Or the same way Bill Paxton had kids in Big Love. “So you want kids now, but don’t care what environment they inherit? Targeted baby-bashing good for you? ” Sure it is. I want the option of providing my “dad” services or “provider” services based upon my own self-interest. I don’t want to be cuckolded by the maternal state to provide for little fuckwits running around with thug/redneck DNA. I want men off the hook for child support, matrimony, and everything else entitled… Read more »
“They are afraid the males are as weak, ignorant, and fundamentally incapable as they appear.”
Incapable of what exactly?
@ DBM
Understood. Thank you, that was very well articulated.
Posts like this tend to make all women look quite misandric, so much so that one tends to want to believe some of that appearance is deceiving. If the “less-useful” or “less-desirable” aspects of masculinity are so disagreeable to the FI, then attempts at suppressing it can only be described as hatred towards males particularly when masculinity is encouraged in women (lesbians) but discouraged in men (healthy masculinity).
I’m trying to think of an analog. I’m trying to find an aspect of feminimity that men might find less desirable and worthy of suppression. Anyone care to help?
@Jeremy
Crazy emphasis on feelings.
Get-out-of-jail-free card for being mean, or breaking things, or buying the 4th pair of shoes in a month.
It’s so liberating to recognize what women are actually up to with men. Recent experiences that contained a high degree of conflict and emotion with women in my life – not at my instigation, but rather due to circumstances – have been the acid test of my Red Pill digestion. I just don’t get sucked into their games anymore in the sense that I expect them to react to reason or have any respect for me emotionally. One in particular was thrown into a frenzy because in the past her guilting and passive aggression would usually elicit a reaction from… Read more »
@Glenn
I still have no idea what she means by a lot of things, including “The readers and commenters are certainly not “alpha” males, certainly no longer “beta” males”
Does she think she gets to redefine terms ad hoc without telling us what the redefined terms mean? It’s hard to tell. So, I guess so.
Suck it up Buttercup, the perfect woman sentence. Be strong you weak dink! In this very sentence the whole of this post is boiled down, Man up and shut up! the most effective retort?
Laugh!
Live fearless – “http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/13/timeline-of-the-professional-woman/”
latest out stating that maternity leave is bad for the professional woman!
http://www2.macleans.ca/2014/01/20/is-maternity-leave-a-bad-ideathe-motherhood-gap/
@Glenn
Lol, what a child. It’s so nice to not be affected by such nonsense.
I hope you’ve read “The Rational Male” (book). Seriously, there are five passages in my mind right now that you would think were written for you.
One of the reasons I moved to Indonesia and married a local was to get away from Feminists and their bullshit. Ten years of total peace and love.
@Signor Tommassi: As I don’t comment here on a regular basis, I would like to leave some more thoughts on the issue of women’s sexual freedom and religion. Once a bitchy, complaining and frustrated feminist told me that all women should be thankful to Christianity for having emancipated women from the historical patriarchic oppression. That made me think and over for such a long time about how women or feminists view the issue of sexual freedom. I came to some interesting conclusions and observations, which I would like to share: 1. Most Christian countries have below replacement total birth rate… Read more »
And finally, but not the least important: just because some women love animals, it doesn’t mean that they have a superior moral agency. There is a lot of confusion here. Some women love animals and campaign to help and save strayed animals, etc. They think they are superior than other human beings for doing so. It happens so that this is just an “affected” sense of superior morality because very often these same women are quite unable to love their own children! And eve less so, their own husbands who are usually caring the financial burden of the relationship. Whereas… Read more »
Rollo.
Epic exposition. Thank you.
“Hmmmmmm….kinda sounds like another Catch 22 we should all be familar with, no? “Do these jeans make me look fat?”” Make it a Catch-22 for her, not you. Answer honestly and with brutal directness. If she flinches or starts the whole female bullshit routine, tell her that if she wanted you to lie she needs to state as much before she asks, otherwise, don’t ask. Go all Sean Connery on her ass. She’ll learn and adapt, or she’ll spin around like a demon for the next few days. Either way it’s her problem, not yours, and don’t make it yours.… Read more »
@ LiveFearless – Isn’t the book just a compendium of all the posts on this blog? I’ve been working my way through them and have read most of the first year and a smattering of others. I direct link/cite would be helpful if you wouldn’t mind. What I’ve learned is two-fold and once I got over the disappointment and anger, it’s been liberating. First, I had completely internalized the female imperative in so many ways, particularly in seeing their emotional state and shaming me for using reason or heaven forbid, being “aggressive” to manipulate me. I took it all very… Read more »
@Carlos “Are you sure that using Jezebel as an example is sound? From what I understand, the regulars there are some mighty bitter, angry, man-hating crones. Are normal women also that turned-off by displays of vulnerability?” Yes. They may tolerate a display once or twice in a lifetime relationship (say, your father dies, etc) but if you are the normal emotional weeping modern man who shares his feelings and looks for validation like her girlfriends do on a regular basis then you are held in as much contempt as you would be by the mouth breathing idiots over at Jezbian…er…Jezebel.… Read more »
@ Carlos – What are “normal women”? Fyi, uprobably should have said “Is a normal woman” (collective doesn’t really work there). Try it is all I have to say. After a lifetime of being scorned by women when I’ve shown my vulnerability and being shocked by their derision over and over and over, this single observation alone opened my eyes dramatically. In my experience, it happens whether a woman is a radfem or not. That’s why I actually only go to the men in my life with difficult emotions and when I’m overwhelmed. I universally receive compassion from men when… Read more »
“Are normal women also that turned-off by displays of vulnerability?” What women are willing to put up depends on her SMV and potential to achieve something she sees as better, thus just because in your average married couple, the guy seems have fallen into the habit of displaying his feelings to her on a regular basis, doesn’t mean that in other circumstances and at another point in her life, she wouldn’t have sought out something “better”. The “beta” behaviour that women really turn off to, that cause her fem-senses to percieve him as more of her child than a mate,… Read more »
@Alexander What you wrote: “the value of the ordinary man close to zero, to nothing to most feminists”. This agrees with my experience with women in the Northeast during the 1990s. A family-oriented man with a good job, providing a safe, comfortable home, vacations, presents, etc., was not really valued by his wife or significant other. Unfortunately, I was that man. If I understand you right, these attributes describe an “ordinary man”, and what women value is a non-ordinary, high-status man. Even though they might be better off in the long run with an ordinary man who will be there… Read more »
@Mike: Addressing your questions: If I understand you right, these attributes describe an “ordinary man”, and what women value is a non-ordinary, high-status man. Exactly. High-status for them is mostly derived from the number of female competitors she has for his attention, which is usually correlated with his power and potential for exhibitionism. Francois Hollande, for instance, looks like a very ordinary, “beta” man. Yet, his wife lost him for a younger competitor, mostly because of his power and public projection, as I see it. The younger competitor takes pleasure in robbing her husband and therefore projecting her sexual power… Read more »
@ Mike and Alexander – Thanks for the exposition of how this plays out, very informative to a Red Piller who is trying to get his head around game. I was reflecting that the only time my erstwhile wife and I would have good sex is when I went out and stayed out late. Defying her and arousing her jealousy seemed to be the only thing that got her wet. She was quite attractive – homecoming and prom queen. I was pretty good looking too, and socially dominant but also quite insecure and utterly game un-aware. Her treatment of me… Read more »
“I innately gave women credit for being “good” based on no evidence.” This is basically a statement about morals. Anyone with them, male or female, is bound to generously believe that other people have them too. Good people are liable to be taken advantage of. The nicest people imbue their good traits on others who may or may not deserve that designation. In part of my favorite quotation from Mother Theresa, she says: “If you are honest and sincere, people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.” I say, yes, do still be honest and sincere, but be smart… Read more »
@ Kate – Absurd. You make a global claims about “anyone” that have no evidentiary or rational basis. I’m a good person and do not assume all people are – but was brainwashed for years to believe women were innately good by a femcentric/gynocentric/female imperative soaked society. Mother Theresa was a monster, btw, here’s a great vid Christopher Hitchens did on her http://youtu.be/76_qL6fiyDw
Think more, post less.
What makes you so sure you’re a good person?
Really? You think I’m going to jump in the pool with you? Giggling. The best part of this site is women coming along and doing exactly what Rollo tells us they will do. It’s fun to watch – but if you have read my comments and think for a second I take you seriously, I guess you really aren’t paying attention.
What life has taught me about being a good man. A good man is selfless A good man does for others. A good man lives to serve his country, community, family, wife, children, employer, friends. A good man never expects others to serve to him. A good man never asks others to serve him. A good man gives till it hurts. A good man realizes that it is more blessed to give than to receive. A good man realizes that other who receive are equally blessed. A good knows that he himself receiving is sinful. A good man is ashamed… Read more »
Hypergamy doesn’t care about any of that
“Hypergamy doesn’t care about any of that”
Which is my point. So being a “good man” is a walking death, best to not be one.
@Kate. Cue female knee-jerk in-group defence mechanism. “Anyone with them, male or female, is bound to generously believe that other people have them too.” Anyone who wouldn’t be prepared to wreck someone else’s life for personal gain “generously believes that” other people aren’t like that? I beg to differ. Your comment seems to suggest that one couldn’t imagine other people’s behaviour differing from their own, and that morality is something for the naïve. You criticise Glenn for his presuming that women are good (something almost all men do initially) but in reality the “imbuing” of innocence and of guilt begins… Read more »
Allow me to go off on a tangerine a bit… Hypergamy (the female drive to mate with and lock into commitment the highest status male(s) she can) is probably more complex than the fundamentals of simply securing the best seed, then fulfilling her and her offspring’s provisioning and protection needs. I think at least part of the reason women want to pair with high status men is to exercise power on the world through their influence on those men. Theories on why any human being might feel driven to rule over their fellow humans aside, I don’t think the urge… Read more »
@D-Man, have you read this yet:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/11/25/nursing-power/
Yes, you did cover many of those points.
Like the 12-bar blues, so many ways to approach it
@ Eris: Its a perfectly valid question. But, if he doesn’t want to answer it, he doesn’t have to answer it. You have to remember that here in the Manosphere, you only hear the reports of the casualties on *your* side. You’re only getting half the story.
“How many times have you heard the phrase “behind every great man is a great woman”?”
Too many unfortunately, and 99% of the people that say it fail to realise it only really suggests that the man in question is a heterosexual.
You’re being disingenuous. You know full well that, for reporting with a bias toward the other side, you only need turn on the TV or open the newspaper. The manosphere is biased in that it focusses on men and their issues.
Perhaps it’s surprising to you that guys almost universally form such a blinkered view regarding the nature of women from an early age, but such is the blue pill and short of having experienced it, you’re not in any position to place judgments on what you see as the shortcomings of others.
Nietzsche’s concept of active/reactive explains a lot of the red pill ideas that I see around the manosphere. Much of what Rollo explains about males and females in terms of evo psych can also be explained by the fact that males are active (affirming/criticising/attacking) and females are reactive (negating/complaining/revenging). This article is no exception. An ideology produced by and for women will have no genuine priinciples, since their way of thinking is just an expedient reaction to circumstance. So you get the feminists advancing some principle (being sensitive to others’ feelings, judging others on merit etc) when it’s convenient, but… Read more »
@Caustic – I think Nietzsche was spot on in almost all of it except for the likelihood and timing of it. Biology and genetics are at work here – and I think he saw masculinity and femininity as much more culturally based, as many did at his time. Brilliant stuff, nonetheless. And the world we are in is exactly this feminized mess.
@Tam the Bam
’d have been sorely tempted to reassure her with
“.. don’t worry, darling, you’ll never be a grandmother”.
May I have your permission to put this on a shirt design?
@Eris – Here’s what’s funniest to me. Kate thinks I’m in an argument with her whereas I come here to help heal from the trauma of lifetime of living inside the female imperative. Her superficial commentary seems to want to engage me as though I’m some idiot who’s never examined myself or life or philosophy or reason. When I say I saw women as “good” it’s a shorthand for many aspects of the femcentric world I encounter and how I see the denigration of men and the elevation of women in our culture and how I’ve internalized. I could try… Read more »