One of the cornerstones of red pill truth is in men coming to terms with what amounts to (in most cases) half a lifetime of feminine conditioning. It’s interesting to consider that there was a time (pre-sexual revolution) when a man wasn’t in someway socialized and acculturated in his upbringing to give deference to the feminine or to become more feminine-identifying. There are plenty of other manosphere bloggers who’ll run down in detail all of the many ways boys are now raised and educated to be what a feminine-primary world would like them to be, but at the heart of it is a presumption that boys should be raised and conditioned to be more like girls; conditioned from their earliest memories to be better providers for what women believe they will eventually want them to be as adult ‘men’.
For men who’ve become aware of this conditioning through some trauma or personal crisis that prompted him to seek answers for his condition, we call this period our blue pill days. I think it’s important to make a distinction about this time – whether or not a man is Alpha or Beta doesn’t necessarily exclude him from the consequences of a blue pill conditioning. That isn’t to say that a more natural Alpha Man can’t see the world in a red pill perspective by his own means, but rather that his feminine-primary upbringing doesn’t necessarily make a man Alpha or Beta.
The Blue Pill Alpha
I’m making this distinction because there is school of thought that being blue pill (unaware of one’s conditioning) necessitates him being more Beta. To be sure, feminine-primary conditioning would raise a boy into a more feminine-pliable man – ready to serve as the good Beta provider when a woman’s SMV declines and she’s less able to compete with her younger sexual competitors.
However, there exist more Alpha Men also conditioned to be servants of the Feminine Imperative. These men make for some of the most self-evincing White Knights you’ll ever meet and are usually the first men to “defend the honor” of the feminine and women for whom they lack a real awareness of. Binary absolutism and an upbringing steeped in feminization makes for a potent sense of self-righteousness. Blue pill Alphas live for the opportunity to defend everything their conditioning has taught them. To the blue pill Alpha all women are victims by default, all women share a common historic suffrage and any man (his sexual competitors) critical of the feminine are simply an opportunity to prove his worth to any woman in earshot who might at all find his zealousness attractive.
The Second Set of Books
On June 15th, 2011, Thomas Ball set himself on fire in front of Cheshire Superior Court in New Hampshire. While I strongly disagree with his decision to self-immolate, I understand his sentiment. In last week’s Possession, Living Tree attempted to call me to the carpet about how a man might come to the conclusion of suicide or murder once he’d become confronted with a total loss of all his personal and emotional investment in life:
But Rollo, you just justified murder as “logical”, by illustrating that insecurity is the prime motivator for this man’s life (and many others, I’d imagine). The decision may have be understandable in an empathetic sense, and he might have seen it as logical at the time, but there is nothing logical about it. You are making extreme beta-ism seem more and more like a mental disorder.
Just for the record, I’d argue that ONEitis, however extreme, is in fact a mental disorder.
I haven’t justified anything, murder or suicide, I’ve simply outlined the deductive process men use when confronting the actualized loss of their most important investment (or perceptually so) in life. They are convinced and conditioned to believe that women are playing by a set of rules and will honor the terms of those rules, only to find that after ego-investing themselves for a lifetime in the correctness and appropriateness of those rules does he discover in cruel and harsh terms that women are playing by another set of rules and wonder at how stupid he could be to have ever believed in the rules he was conditioned to expect everyone would abide by.
Suicide or murder is certainly a deductive and pragmatic end for some men, but by no means is it justified. Thomas Ball, for all of his due diligence in uncovering the ugly processes of the American divorce industry, was far more useful alive than dead in some symbolic suicide. He wasn’t the martyr he probably expected he’d be, he’s just a footnote.
For all of that, Thomas Ball and his last message to humanity serves as an excellent illustration of a man coming to terms with his own conditioning. In his message Ball makes a very important observation about his legal ordeals. He comes to understand that there are two sets of books rather than the one he’d been lead to believe that everyone understood as ‘the rules’ everyone should play by.
The confusion you have with them is you both are using different sets of books. You are using the old First Set of Books- the Constitution, the general laws or statutes and the court ruling sometime call Common Law. They are using the newer Second Set of Books. That is the collection of the policy, procedures and protocols. Once you know what set of books everyone is using, then everything they do looks logical and upright.
Ball was of course making a political statement in his account of going through the legal system and the cruel education he got in the process, but when men transition from their comfortable blue pill perspective into the harsh reality that the red pill represents, the experience is a lot like Ball discovering that the set of books (the set of rules) he’d believed everyone was using wasn’t so. Likewise, men who’ve been conditioned since birth to believe that women were using a common set of rules – a set where certain expectations and mutual exchange were understood – were in fact using their own set. Furthermore these men ‘just didn’t get it’ that they should’ve known all along that women, as well as men’s feminization conditioning, were founded in a second set of books.
In and of itself, this is a difficult lesson for young men to learn and disabuse themselves of before they’ve invested their most productive years into what their blue pill conditioning has convinced them they can expect from life and women. However, when a mature man, who’s based the better part of his life and invested his future into the hope that the first set of books is actually legitimate set is disenfranchised by the second set of books, by the actual set of rules he’s been playing with, that’s when all of the equity he believed he’d established under the first set of books counts for nothing. Literally his life (up to that point) counted for nothing.
When faced with the prospect of rebuilding himself after living so long under false pretenses, after having all he believed he was building turn up to be a lifetime of wasted effort, he’s faced with two real options. Recreate himself or destroy himself. Needless to say suicide statistics among men are a strong indication that the majority of men (Betas) simply don’t have the personal strength to recreate themselves. Thomas Ball didn’t.
There’s usually a lot of disillusionment that comes with making the transition to Red Pill awareness. I’ve written more than a few posts about the stages of grief and acceptance that come along with that transition. Guy’s get upset that what they now see was really there all along, but it’s not so much the harshness of seeing red pill dynamics in women or a feminized society play out with such predictability, it’s the loss of investment that cause the real sense of nihilism. When I wrote Anger Management, the overarching reason most men experienced what they called a righteous anger, wasn’t at how the second set of books had been dictating their lives for so long, but rather it was anger at having invested so much of themselves in the first set of books and losing that very long term investment.
The good news is you can rebuild yourself. A lot gets written about how nihilistic the red pill is, but this is for a lack of understanding that you can recreate yourself for the positive with the knowledge of both sets of rules. One common thread I see come up often on the Red Pill Reddit forum is how Game-awareness has completely destroyed a guy’s world view. I get it, I realize it’s a hard realization, but their depression is only for a lack of realizing that they can become even better in this new understanding than they were in their blue pill ignorance.
Yes, Oneitis is a mental disorder, and it is the same as infatuation, being in love, limerence, etc. The redpill truth is that for a man, being in love doesn’t “work” as a technique. A man in love is automatically beta.
why give lyingtree any attention?
No amount of logical discussion can get past the hamstring. It’s me-me-me all the way
Winner
This concept of “two sets of books” meshes well with the “They Live” sunglasses analogy. Once you put on the sunglasses, you can start to see the second set of books all around you.
To be honest, it is fairly disheartening at first to take the red pill.
By the way, I have three children and I think it was a serious lapse in judgement and self-control for Mr. Ball to hit his four year old hard enough to draw blood. Of course, that doesn’t justify the what they system later did to him with his spouse’s facilitation.
Fucking brilliant. It took the three most important women in my life – my daughter and two sisters turning on me for me to finally get it. My ex leaving me for another man left me twisting in the wind for 20 years as I sank deeper into hopelessness, denial and anger. After Parental Alienation and lies and endless denigration and being used for money, I still hadn’t gotten it. I felt as though I’d failed in every way possible. How could I have dedicated myself to being a husband and a father and to being a father figure and… Read more »
“why give lyingtree any attention?”
Because she is a perfectly typical representative of the common strain of anglo-bourgeois-feminine-imperative. We benefit by seeing the clarity of her feelings without the distraction of the prejudgment of knowing what she looks like. And she’s not particularly hostile. I would place her in a feminist zoo in the habitat labeled Canuckistanian Gyno-Marxist.
This is another classic from you Rollo, on par with War Brides in my opinion. After reading how Glenn was awakened to the manosphere I too thought back to when I realized I was working with another set of books that I never even knew existed. It’s really disheartening to realize that there are a lot of guys out there that only experience this criminal reality when everything that they’ve worked their entire wealth building years are on the line. Their jobs, their bank accounts, their children, and their homes…. Everything that they truly internalize as their contribution to society… Read more »
Personally I think it behooves every man to be red pill while maintaining a sense of the blue. If you think the red pill is nihilistic…I suggest reading the book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible. That has to be one of the most nihilistic books in there. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+1&version=NLT And yet it still presents hope for everyone that while life is ultimately futile…you should still enjoy it. I see no problem with nihilism as long as it doesn’t take you down completely that life is bleak. I see no problem living in blissful ignorance as long as you aren’t surprised when… Read more »
The second set of book covered by feminism. Hard truth.
It is tough to accept the truth, but the reality is men split into 3 groups: 1) A small percentage of men who have always attained a natural ability to deal with women – these are usually high social status jerks who, due to inundated female followers, become relaxed with the comprehension another will always be around the corner. 2) Men who forever live in the blue pill world. Even those who accept that female choices are somewhat illogical still continue i vain hope. 3) Men who have learned and accepted the reality, and they adapt to suit. I always… Read more »
There are parallel educational tracks for boys and girls that are separate and very unequal. Girls, are told formally and informally through their school, society, and their families,that they can ignore the very same rules that apply to boys. The concepts of honor, honesty and responsibility for your actions are stressed to boys only, to keep them moral and productive. These same concepts are treated as optional at best for girls. Boys are expected to limit their options to what is good for society. Girls are told anything that gets them what they want is fair game. There a few… Read more »
Thank you, Rollo. ——————- The manosphere is considered nihilistic because it is. Nihilism states that there is no purpose to in human life. Therefore, no fundamental identity. As Glenn’s comment illustrates, this can lead to an embrace of hedonism. It can also lead to an embrace of buddhism or similar. I recall a post from Mark Minter a long time ago where he basically said “I just wonder about my house now, doing nothing because there is no point. I don’t get happy, I don’t get depressed, I just do what I want. Today the only thing I did was… Read more »
@Andy,
http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/18/the-honor-system/
This seems particularly appropriate here:
http://redpillpushers.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/shocked-bitter-angry-men/
” *** men hate, with an unbridled passion, not knowing the rules of the game that they’re playing. We are so goal, rule, structure, and boundary oriented, that to be competing in a contest where the rules are unclear is anathema to the male spirit. For men, realizing that the world you knew was a complete lie, and you were a fool working against his own best interests is akin to a blazing dagger being plunged into the masculine brain, and the pain may never fully go away.”
@ Different T – Hedonism? That’s what you got out of my comment? Wow, that’s just bizarre. Rather, what I’ve realized is that by putting service to society and family and women ahead of my own self-interests, I’ve damaged myself. I put the bit in my teeth and just pulled and valued myself by service to those roles. I remember in my early days as a Dad with a stay at home wife, realizing by being absent 5 days a week for 10-12 hours a day that my daughter would grow up closer to her mom. That she might even… Read more »
The problem is that most men fail to understand that women will not love men in the same way that men will love them. Once you understand this and accept it, you will have a much healthier relationship with your wife or girlfriend. There’s nothing wrong with being in love, but for men it holds a radically different meaning than for women. As for the Second Set of Books, they are very real and a huge problem in this day and age. Because women are usually only good at administrative jobs, they tend to go to bureaucratic middle-management when working… Read more »
The Second Set of Books can only be maintained if many are brainwashed to follow the First Set of Books.
The way to deal with the Second Set of Books, if outright avoidance to starve the beast is not possible, is to become aware (Red Pill) and subvert them (Black Knighting, Game).
As far as laws in the family court system…remember laws can be bent and they can be broken.
Men want rules with a system that plays fair. Women want the opposite. It’s a female centered society…so the system doesn’t play fair and the rules don’t matter.
@Glenn and Different T, there’s an important distinction between ‘hedonism’ and ‘enlightened self-interest’.
I’ve always wondered if anybody’s ever looked at what child support gets set as versus what was actually spent on children before the split.
Women make the rules up as they go. If a “rule” suited them at one point or was advantageous to their hypergamy it is valid. If it no longer meets their needs they discard and create a new one. I would like to put a visual in your heads to help you all remember what playing by the rules can get you. If you have seen the film “No Country For Old Men” there is a scene where the character Anton Chigurh played by Javier Bardem confronts Carson Wells played by Woody Harrelson. Chigurh prior to killing Wells asks “If… Read more »
This is an amazing post and probably one of the most succinct I’ve ever read here, and should be included in Rational Male’s Best of Year Two. I can’t think of a better intro to the manosphere / red pill / RM world than to read this in order to get up to speed. There’s a moment where you finally realize that, all along, you’ve been coerced into playing by a rulebook that is designed to work against your interests and is a functional handicap to play by. What man in his right mind would continue to play by those… Read more »
The transition, as shocking as it is, can be done. I did it in my mid-20s, right before the advent of Game and Red Pill thinking, on my own, without help from anyone. It was eye-opening. Suddenly everything made sense. (My Red Pill awareness also paralleled my awakening to racial, cultural, and social realities). I lost friends and became estranged from family members as a result. The cross-over, once you make it, gives you an inner peace, calm, and confidence. The only possible downside to being a thought criminal is that, for me, women have lost some of their “feminine… Read more »
An old joke about the rules. 1. The Female always makes THE RULES. 2. THE RULES are subject to change without notice. 3. No Male can possibly know all THE RULES. 4. If the Female suspects the Male knows all THE RULES, she must immediately change some or all of THE RULES. 5. The Female is never wrong. 6. If it appears the Female is wrong, it is because of a flagrant misunderstanding caused by something the Male did or said wrong. 7. If Rule #6 applies, the Male must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding. 8. The Female can… Read more »
Rollo, Perhaps this is startlingly obvious to you already, but I maintain that relationship failure occurs 99/100 times because of unstated/unheard expectations, which leads to disappointment, then resentment, and then disrespect which overtakes every transaction. The eventual trigger for the final implosion might be cheating, or whatever… but what started the whole messy terrible process of getting to that point was a history of unmet expectations. I wonder if you could better illustrate what the “rules” are that you guys want to believe that women are playing by (perhaps you’ve already written an article or ten on this?). I’m curious… Read more »
“Inflating girls sense of themselves through these rigged games… offers a sense of accomplishment and the enjoyment of winning with none of the actual work. Or accomplishment. Or winning.” Considering that testosterone levels in men (and probably women, doubt there’s a study on that) spike measurably in the wake of a competitive win and decline after a loss, we’re looking here at how the Second Set of Books is grinding our gears to change our very physiology, or at least hamstring it. It’s a self-reinforcing feedback loop. This social engineering, applied on a culture-wide scale, is the leading candidate, in… Read more »
Even in Fight Club…the first two rules were broken and Bob wore a shirt.
“Game-awareness has completely destroyed a guy’s world view”
Of course, there’s nothing wrong with destroying a false world view.
Exactly Doh-San. That world view was based on a system of rules founded upon a delusion, it deserved to be broken a long time ago.
http://vault.hanover.edu/~altermattw/research/assets/AltermattDissertation.pdf
I see how some would go the suicide route. My brother had to be talked “down from the ledge”. But as Rollo states, the awareness of the truth can AND SHOULD be freeing.
As the old Jew said, about 2,000 years ago, “the Truth shall set you Free!”
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
@Glenn’s story makes perfect sense because most of us here have gone through the same process. I found the red pill years ago now, and have long since moved beyond the dismay and anger that the process engenders at the start. Like Glenn, I came to it later in life after the collapse of what I’d thought had been a happy near-20-year marriage. Fortunately, I came out relatively unscathed as we had no children and my ex proved to be actually sane after she pulled the plug. I don’t necessarily think that the Red Pill is nihilistic, though I can… Read more »
@ Rollo – Exactly, “enlightened self interest” isn’t a bad way of describing it. But to me it’s so important for me to see how utterly un-self interested I was. I was in denial and also in a double bind because I held myself up to standards that the most important women in my life didn’t hold themselves to, and also in denial about how screwed up it all was. I still HAD TO see myself as a “good father” and a “good brother’ – no matter what. I could not accept failure, and also realized that I was still… Read more »
**** angels singing in background ****
Much wisdom in Andy’s post: “In rare circumstances when you hold a girl to account for her actions, she usually expresses shock or anger – “why are you being so mean?”. Holding a girl to account for anything makes YOU the one with the problem. Didn’t you get the message?” For me, these circumstances have not been rare. I have a habit of being brutally honest with women, and it’s never productive for me. I call them out. I never put up with their b.s. And it amazes me that even in the ones who are Republicans, or *seem* more… Read more »
@ LivingTree – So according to you, the “rules” were essentially imposed by the male defined patriarchy? The females in no way exercised any agency in the development of our culture? Chivalric codes were first given by the church to knights to tame their brutal ways and were a way of making sacred their service. Romantic love and courtly love emerge around the same time as large cultural phenomena, and in fact, courtly love codes were introduced by women in royalty in the middle ages. See Peter Wright’s excellent site, gynocentrism.com for in depth treatment of these ideas – no… Read more »
Besides, Glenn. I’d be much more inclined to attribute scientific merit the perspective of a PhD, who’s spent eight years dedicated to academic study of the topic of dissertation, than a very biased, random uneducated dude who writes a blog on topics that have very little objective basis to it.
I hope that you haven’t been bitten by the conspiracy bug so badly that you think empirical evidence is tainted by the “feminine imperative” too. Egads.
LyingTree2013
[bats eyes]
“But, gosh, Rollo, I just don’t understay-and, what do you mean by “second set of books”? I’m just a gurl, I can’t figure it out, so how about if you burn up a lot of time and effort trying to explain it to me, me, me, me, me, rather than doing anything else you might think is important?”
Careful readers should note this particular game, as it can appear to the casual observer as something rational. It isn’t, it’s merely another attempt at a reframe, courtesy of the Female Imperative.
This is the main fallacy of the imaginary victim-oppressor schema that so many subscribe to.
If you remove the agency of one group by classifying them as unqualified victims, you essentially dehumanize them in a worse way than the temporary kind they experienced by coming up short in direct competition.
“Righting the scales in their favour” teaches them deep down that they are inherently, intractably inferior, while giving their ids free reign over their actions. Essentially, it infantilizes them.
Feminism is not the only imaginary victim/oppressor paradigm in which this process is backfiring.
We cannot Harrison Bergeron this world.
Glenn, please. I never said anything of the sort. I’m not engaging in a “who started it” argument here, please lets not be petty. I’m saying that chivalry is a deeply ingrained cultural script that men and women alike have, for much of our history, let rule us. I’m not in any way saying that women haven’t upheld the cultural script just as much as men have, throughout history, and they unwittingly still do – including many feminists – and so do most men (this is what a beta male is, from my reading of it). For the cultural script… Read more »
@Glenn “I thought that was part of being a man, being unappreciated.” I still think so, that women automatically disappreciate most men and that it will never change no matter what. However, I do think it is possible for individual men’s women to change from unappreciating him to being … well, less unappreciative anyway, by him doing fewer things for them to appreciate. I’m reasonably certain the vast majority of men will never be actually correctly appreciated by any woman ever.
@earl “Eat, drink, and be merry” is the dinner bell for nihilists.
Well said, Glenn.
@Laguna Beach Fogey “Now, I’m under no delusions about them. I’m not sure I could love one the way I did when I was a younger man, which, upon reflection, I think is a good thing overall.” I’m certain that wife goggles is the same as “I haven’t fallen out of love with her.” I had been in love for roughly forty of my fifty adultish years (I’m in my md 60s), and although there have been times I thought I would never be in love again, I am certain of it now.
My thoughts after reading this article are “What a load of crap”. Awwww poor men .. we’ve had to deal with viewpoints that may not work in our favor for gasp 50 years. Whereas women have been persecuted, raped, murdered, executed for crimes that men wouldn’t be executed for (and still are executed for them today), held as property, forced into societal positions they didn’t want, and in general just fucked by men for thousands upon thousands of years. (In substantially higher numbers than men) I’m a 40 year old alpha male, divorced because my ex and I grew apart,… Read more »
@Doh-San, the deluded world view of patriarchial culture of the West, in which women were honored as the weaker vessels, with its characteristic chivalry being the normative male role, was revealed to be false only after women were freed to be feral and unappreciative of chivalry. In the feral world, for example in the Yanamano world as linked approvingly (gloatingly!) by livingtree, “wives are obtained through raids, and it is prestigious for a man to beat and even stab his wife in public.” THIS is the correct world view, if chivalry is not.
@ LivingTree – Utterly uninteresting and please, don’t feel bad for me, I’m actually happier than I’ve ever been in my life. You clearly have some axe to grind, some ideas about what’s going on, some secret insight that the rest of us haven’t figured out that you are hellbent on imposing. I don’t care, none of what you said is revelatory or of any real value to me – I was already aware of chivalry, but you have made it this global thing and seem to dismiss so many other aspects of the sexual dynamics of men and women.… Read more »
Fellow Men, I’m grateful and thankful for all of you since this world would be a very lonely place without red pill brethren. Imagine how dark it would be if we didn’t have this online meeting place. Without your words to remind me about the truth, there’s no telling what new messes with women I would stumble into stupidly. You’ve all helped me in so many ways. Thank you.
LT, it’s getting to the point where your presumptuousness is belying your commitment to your ego-investments in a feminized head-space. And as such you have zero intellectual curiosity, once again evidenced by your ignoring my suggestion that you actually read the articles on this blog before you make your uninformed presumptions. You want to believe that my commenters haven’t already considered the ideas that your ego-investment insulates you from wanting to think they might have. But your intellectual laziness only makes you look stupid to my readers. Now, go read these essays and come back here when you have some… Read more »
Rollo, your linkbacked articles have illustrated nothing to contradict, or even to relate to, my point. My point is not of the existence of chivalry, or that chivalry is little more than cow-towing to women, or that chivalry is a defective system, or that men made it or that women use it. My point is, as always, that your readers are simultaneously fighting against and protecting the same cause. As always, they blame women and hold themselves up as victims (Aww poor men, all we did was sacrifice for you. We’re so valuable, and so unappreciated! Why wont you love… Read more »
Thomas Ball did not set himself on fire only because of his wife. He set himself on fire at least partly because of the absolute disaster that child-protective services and law enforcement turned his life into from one simple accusation. It is women who have demanded this entire structure of child protective law exist in place of actual, you know, mothering. They have substituted government and law enforcement for their own natural responsibility to society. What needs to happen, is the disgusting and immoral bureaucracy that our nations divorce law and child protective services has turned into needs to be… Read more »
@ Lion – Amen, brother (and I’m an atheist). We might not stumble into more messes, but rather just withdraw from the world in a self-protective recoiling reflex, taking refuge in a solitude that while soul crushing, at least feels like a respite from this mad world. But with the Red Pill, I can be in the world with clear eyes and self-respect and dignity. Pretty cool for something that I’ve been given by other men out of simple compassion and love. Thanks to all of you out there!!
@Kenneth, thanks for proving the example: The Blue Bill Alpha However, there exist more Alpha Men also conditioned to be servants of the Feminine Imperative. These men make for some of the most self-evincing White Knights you’ll ever meet and are usually the first men to “defend the honor” of the feminine and women for whom they lack a real awareness of. Binary absolutism and an upbringing steeped in feminization makes for a potent sense of self-righteousness. Blue pill Alphas live for the opportunity to defend everything their conditioning has taught them. To the blue pill Alpha all women are… Read more »
@glen, I’m not entirely sure your experience is all that dis-simliar to a woman’s in your position. I was also abused, and it was expected that I just go on … and women are always under pressure to ‘keep the peace’, to make sure the family is intact… In other words, I think you are placing your blame on only one factor, when in reality there are many to consider. I’m sorry you had the experience you did. But, please don’t become lost in hate for only women. There are those of us out here who are going through much… Read more »
@jf12 “A man in love is automatically beta.” Love between a man and a woman as I understand it, or feel it, or have been conditioned to believe it to be, must be a total myth and simply impossible. Believe in strong emotions, believe in attachment, believe in attraction, believe in loyalty, but don’t call it love, and don’t let yourself go and be lost in the bliss of it all. To allow yourself to believe it’s real or forever is beta. That’s what I think about “love” now, so I am in agreement with your statement. I wish for… Read more »
@ Kenneth L “We don’t need to diss women and their completely rational need to be treated right and correctly in order to be masculine ourselves.” But no one is “dissing” that. At all. Your statement is a complete and utter misrepresentation. Past wrongs also don’t justify current wrongs. “Blacks were enslaved for centuries, so what if they go out and carry out some White retribution killings? Stop whining and get over it!” You really want to make this absurd argument? I would love to live in a world where women were consistent, logical, congruent, humble, held to the same… Read more »
@rolo Are you kidding me here? Because I disagree with your viewpoint, I’m a conditioned servant? That’s pretty egotistical of you, if not completely unintelligent. Funny thing about the term white knight, it implies that the person ‘needs’ to protect women, when in reality they’re usually people who just simply think rationally. I find your opinion not rational. I find it to be both blind and also harmful. I sincerely hope your daughter isn’t ruined by your complete and utter bias against women. Unfortunately, she probably will be. I don’t see how she can’t be harmed by a father who… Read more »
@rolo Are you kidding me here? Because I disagree with your viewpoint, I’m a conditioned servant? No, you’re a conditioned servant when you reveal it in comments like this: Whereas women have been persecuted, raped, murdered, executed for crimes that men wouldn’t be executed for (and still are executed for them today), held as property, forced into societal positions they didn’t want, and in general just fucked by men for thousands upon thousands of years. (In substantially higher numbers than men) I’m a 40 year old alpha male, divorced because my ex and I grew apart, and I’m still fucking… Read more »
@Kenneth L
That’s pretty obvious, though it remains to be seen if you can make a rational comment when you’re not irritated.
@Kenneth
Translation: I have neither the intellectual fortitude nor curiosity to engage in any sane manner with those that may disagree with me. Instead I will do a drive-by shooting and screech away to my favorite echo chambers of the internet.
With a bluepill disclaimer that NAWALT, I wonder if there is room here for a synopsis of the activities involving Jameis Winston’s accuser on that fateful night. The redpill is possibly the only antidote to the nauseatingly sordid account which tackles (pun intended) women’s “rules” (the lack thereof), hypergamy, and harsh realities.
@Laguna “The cross-over, once you make it, gives you an inner peace, calm, and confidence. The only possible downside to being a thought criminal is that, for me, women have lost some of their “feminine magic”. Now, I’m under no delusions about them. I’m not sure I could love one the way I did when I was a younger man, which, upon reflection, I think is a good thing overall.” That is so true. They have lost their magic while we lost our innocence in the way. Lately I’ve thought a lot about that, if I will be able to… Read more »
@ Jude – I’m not angry at women at all any more. I used to be but seeing the world for what it is relieved me of the rage as it used to be like this riddle I could never solve. I’m also not angry when the lion eat’s the wildebeast -it’s just the way of the world. But here’s the other part, I no longer “respect” women for being women and I don’t give a shit what they think about how I behave or what I think or what positive masculinity should look like. I’ll tell you what I… Read more »
Lion- “Love between a man and a woman as I understand it, or feel it, or have been conditioned to believe it to be, must be a total myth and simply impossible. Believe in strong emotions, believe in attachment, believe in attraction, believe in loyalty, but don’t call it love, and don’t let yourself go and be lost in the bliss of it all. To allow yourself to believe it’s real or forever is beta.” That is most most disappointing part of redpill reality. I can live with the odious nature of the rules. I can accept my own limitations.… Read more »
—> Rollo Tomassi posts links to six of his blog articles:
January 14th, 2014 at 4:11 pm
—> livingtree2013 supposedly read and digested all of them by:
January 14th, 2014 at 4:56 pm
Fourty five minutes is apparently all it takes see a reply prompting you to read, and to then go read and digest 6 blog articles, AND reply back saying “none of those apply to my point.”
@Livingtree…
Your intellectual dishonesty is as rank as a cat litter box.
Jeremy, would you stop being an asshole, please. I’ve actually read several of them previously. Despite what Rollo seems to want to believe.
@Badpainter Hope flaps eternal.
jf12, I say hope is just one more way to be disappointed, but I appreciate the sentiment none the less.
@SuperBowlDave: Of course no one is “dissing” women as in disrespecting women as women (disrespect to specific women who have earned it is a different story), but to men like Kenneth L (as with most feminists and White Knights) simply disagreeing with them let along just setting out factual truths is seen a disrespect. I literally laughed when he proved Rollo’s point about the Blue Pill Alpha. What Kenneth doesn’t and won’t realize is that Red Pill has nothing to do with women gaining rights but about women exercising rights without accepting any responsibilities. It’s on display in a “report”… Read more »
“@Kenneth, thanks for proving the example:”
You keep saying commenters keep proving your points. Not having the ban hammer is a good thing.
Nando Parrado says that once he and the other Andes survivors gave up hope they would be rescued, they began to work on rescuing themselves. He just started walking. He said he didn’t want to be a hero; he just wanted to get our of there to tell his father he was alive. So often, we think of hope as a good thing. Most of the time, the myth of hope lets us down again and again. If we are hoping, we aren’t doing. If we are hoping, we are waiting. We are thinking something or someone will make things… Read more »
@livingtree2013
Would you stop pretending to be intellectually curious when it’s clear you aren’t, please? Most of your comments are blog pollution.
Nice comment Kate,
In some ways your comment touches on the general dearth of masculine virtues taught to everyone (men and women). Instead of being taught to take some control over life’s direction, people are told to “just keep putting yourself out there and hope things turn out.”
This is completely contrary to actual survival behavior, which demands action/agency. Those who do not become involved in their own lives merely hasten their own demise.
Kenneth L. I’m too irritated to make a rational comment. Nah, you’re too much of a White Knight to make a rational comment. You’re just another momma’s boy trying to curry favor with teh wimmenz by running down men. A friend of mine had his 15+ year marriage blown up last year. Another man I know of a couple of years back ate his .45 when he found out his “loving” wife was cheating on him. Real men are suffering real harm, and all you can do is huff and puff and pretend to be a Great Big Man. Run… Read more »
Kenneth L
This is my last comment here. I will never grace this site again, because it is full of the most deliberate ignorance I’ve seen in quite a while.
Well, maybe. Women and their White Knight enablers generally just have to get the last word. So my bet is, Kenneth will be back.
Maybe he and LyingTree can have some quality time together?
@LivingTree – I know feeding you is a bad idea but I just can’t help myself. LT says – “My point is, as always, that your readers are simultaneously fighting against and protecting the same cause. As always, they blame women and hold themselves up as victims (Aww poor men, all we did was sacrifice for you. We’re so valuable, and so unappreciated! Why wont you love us in exchange for protecting you??), while completely avoid addressing the fact that this very practice illustrates everything that the whole damn system is predicated on!” No, that’s your absurdly reductionist and shaming… Read more »
Glenn, you misunderstand me. I don’t think men’s sufferings are pathetic. If you’d paid any attention to even a single thing I’ve said you would know that. I’m sure that Kenneth doesn’t think that either. I can’t speak for Kenneth, but I certainly think its long overdue that men started demanding that their needs get better met by this extremely fucked system (even though your needs are still largely ambiguous, and generally are stated in an overtly hostile and defensive manner). If you think that women are satisfied with it, you’d be dead wrong. None of us are getting our… Read more »
“Rollo, your linkbacked articles have illustrated nothing to contradict, or even to relate to, my point.”
Hamsterlation => tl;dr
Victim? Moi?? No way. Not now, not ever. Even when I graduate to being a corpse.
Ignoring the bullshit now? You betcha.
Let’s hope LT has a daughter(s) I can smash.
Thank you, Jeremy. I wrote that in 2010. Nando Parrado is still one of my personal heroes. At the time of the crash, he was the shy, quiet friend of the popular guy who was good with girls. Sadly, his friend died in the crash. So did Nando’s mother and sister. As a result of this hardship and those over the next months on the mountain, he became one of the saviors of the rest of the survivors and went on to became a television producer, a race car driver, and he married a supermodel. One of my prized possessions… Read more »
Kate
LOL… alpha pining. Kate, that is not an insult.
NAWALT. A sordid tale w/ multiple books. On December 5 of 2013, Florida State Attorney Willie Meggs announced that no prosecution would be forthcoming against Jameis Winston, who was accused of raping a girl at his place a year earlier on December 7, and the announcement was accompanied by the release of books of police reports and interviews and transcripts. The accuser’s attorney Patricia Carroll stood by Meggs and complimented him even as cracked jokes about it all. As soon as they released the documents my first thought was that there must be video and that is why Meggs was… Read more »
No comment on my picture selection? I thought it was brilliant.
@ Glenn Thank you for expanding on your comment. The comment was referring to the part which said… It’s time for me to get mine and everyone else can get in line behind me. And anyone who doesn’t like it can kiss my ass. Daughter, sisters, lovers, father – I’m not anyone’s mule anymore. Especially the last line. Upon further review, it’s more clear that you probably meant those people as specific to your situation. “Enlightened self-interest” may sound like a good phrase, but the concepts to which it refers make it confusing, if not useless or even harmful. The… Read more »
Re: picture caption suggestion “What should be tell our sons?”
@ Different T – I’m sorry, but just who the fuck is it that you think you are, and to whom do you think you are addressing with your pablum? It’s of no value to me. You deign to lecture me but emit elliptical nonsense that’s supposed to pass for wisdom. I dare say I know more about philosophy than you and am in no need of your counsel. You seem to take offense at me putting myself first, and I have no idea why. And yes, you know nothing of my circumstances and the people I’m speaking of. I’ve… Read more »
It’s interesting that the only comment on the topic of the actual “first set of books” (the concepts) has been “The Second Set of Books can only be maintained if many are brainwashed to follow the First Set of Books.” Again, Was that first set of books created by emotional whim or as a response to the realities of human life? Have those realities fundamentally changed or has an enormous amount of energy been spent creating and maintaining the illusion that those realities have changed? If you have no answer to those questions, you really are “a bunch of whiny… Read more »
@ Glenn
I’m sorry, but just who the fuck is it that you think you are, and to whom do you think you are addressing with your pablum?
Wow. That was the shortest lecture given to illicit such a response. Though it is humorous that the very childish, female, anti-authoritarian scripts activated in yourself were the same ones that likely drove you to capitulate to the very people you so despise.
@ Different T – You are setting yourself up as some kind of lecturer here, advising me and trying to straighten me out – and it’s not welcome. How ’bout you keep your commenting to your life and your views and stop playing around with dime store, pop psychology and nonsense? Just a thought…
@ Glenn
While it’s still uncertain and the old programs do try and run themselves in my head, I have stepped out of them.
It was stated because you may be able to understand.
How ’bout you keep your commenting to your life and your views and stop playing around with dime store, pop psychology and nonsense?
Fortunately, your opinion does not matter.
@ Different T – I’ve got it now, you are one of those pseudo-intellectuals who has no sense of how vapid his commentary and “insights” actually are, but somehow gets away with passing off vaporous puffs of nonsense without being challenged most of the time. Sorry I hurt your feelings, but you haven’t said a thing to me that is worth the time it took to read it. There hasn’t been a bit of it that is insightful or clever or even interesting. In fact, what becomes clearer and clearer with each tedious word-parsing snark belch you burp up is… Read more »
An important article. For me, discovering “the red pill” was more a relief than anything else. I think for a long long time I had felt that somehow the world was playing by rules which were at odds with the kind of values that were preached to us when I was growing up. The more I looked around, the more it felt that there was a undeniably unpleasant side to reality that no one wanted to talk about and discovering the red pill for me meant discovering people that noticed the same things, who weren’t afraid to talk about it… Read more »
@ livingtree2013 “Anyway… “We are upset because we entered into a social contract that is broken with us at will and women don’t even want to acknowledge it.” WHAT social contract??? All of Rollo’s linkbacks failed to answer this question. That you didn’t receive the profound, undying, unconditional love that you expected in exchange for a lifetime of sacrifice, that you were conditioned to believe you were entitled to expect just because you “did the right thing,” fathered a child, and paid for stuff? Is that what you mean? Because I’m pretty sure that was never, ever part of any… Read more »
“I think for a long long time I had felt that somehow the world was playing by rules which were at odds with the kind of values that were preached to us when I was growing up.”
and
“The idea that a human is unable to cope living as a human without telling oneself reassuring falsehoods makes little sense.”
Is your main regret that you did not disregard those values sooner than the people who took advantage of the values you possessed?
Almost every sentence I see written on this forum is like a direct transcript from the chivalry handbook, the handbook which, as much as you hate it and rail against it and mock men who still uphold it, it is so deeply ingrained in you that you will most certainly go to your death defending it. You recognize the problem with it, but its become part of you, so letting it go is like a form of death. I feel bad for you guys, in a way. Your entire life seems to have had no purpose if you abandon all… Read more »
@ Water Cannon Boy I’m not annoyed by LivingTree as others are, but this part does sound like a reframe, as it’s called. To me, it’s sounds like the unwanted “nice guy” that tried asking women’s advice, got the “just be yourself” advice, was astute enough to see “bad boy” be successful, and when about to try the advice from a guy who was successful(and would actually work), then got an “intervention” of more women’s advice saying “oh no nice guy, you’re trying to be a player. Women don’t like player’s, and you don’t want to be a player nice… Read more »
It ate my comment, let’s see if I can reconstruct it from memory. @deti – This seems particularly appropriate here: http://redpillpushers.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/shocked-bitter-angry-men/ ” *** men hate, with an unbridled passion, not knowing the rules of the game that they’re playing. We are so goal, rule, structure, and boundary oriented, that to be competing in a contest where the rules are unclear is anathema to the male spirit. For men, realizing that the world you knew was a complete lie, and you were a fool working against his own best interests is akin to a blazing dagger being plunged into the masculine… Read more »
The first set of books, the social contract, or pre-whipping are all based upon a strictly one sided teaching of the “Golden Rule.” The betrayal is in perverting, and intentionally misunderstanding the notion of turning the other cheek. The lie is obscuring the reality that the meek absolutely inherit the earth but in standard size grave plots.
@ BlackPoisonSoul
Can you think of a single example of a society “turning things around?”
Different T – “Can you think of a single example of a society ‘turning things around?'”
Wrong question. Can you name an insurgency the ultimately failed?
A great number unless you somehow think that every subsequent insurgency within the society is still the same thing.
I can think of zero that ultimately failed. They all win eventually. Sometimes they are quickly replaced but the all get their day as the established order eventually.
You are likely to turn this into a argument about definition, but…
The whiskey rebellion, the slave rebellion in America, the Civil War, the Irish.
You could say that Afghan insurgency against the Taliban had basically failed previous to the US entering their war.
This list doesn’t include the Soviets, the Chinese, etc.
There are a great number within the Mongol Dynasty alone.
You’re right I would turn this in to argument about definitions, but that’s only because words mean things and clear definitions are necessary to make sure we are comparing red delicious apples to other red delicious apples.
Men just duped themselves into thinking it was their entitlement because it gave their lives meaning and allowed them to put their energies into something they thought was valuable. This is the heart of the Fallacy of Relational Equity (which I’m sure you haven’t read yet, so once again I’ll do your fucking leg work): http://therationalmale.com/2012/05/21/relational-equity/ This is exactly the means of the Feminine Imperative. Chivalry was a mechanism for the FI. And for as much shit as both feminists and well meaning manosphereans would disagree with me over – Feminism is simply Chivalry 2.0. Only, with feminism the objectives… Read more »
I was aware of what that WSJ article was talking about. It’s pretty prevalent just by watching a little tv. I would like to hear more personal accounts of how elementary schools are changing against boys. There’s an article, or could have been a blog, from a woman that got people a little surprised when she titled it “why I don’t want my son to be a gentleman”. Her son asked her one day what a gentleman is. She gave him an answer and then wanted to know what it meant to him. He recounted that at school, the girls… Read more »
@Eris Re:”those who have suffered trauma and lost the use of certain parts of the body” I’ve lately been visiting an randomish old working guy (ancient, several years older than me) in a nursing home rather too irregularly. Noone else, as far as I know, outside of the nursing staff, visits him really. From a couple of strokes a decade ago, he is completely paralyzed on his left side, and not much use elsewhere as he’d be the first to say. He invariably smiles fully, a half smile, and says that he’s glad to be alive when I ask how… Read more »
@ Rollo So if men were ‘duped’ into believing in a “first set of rule’s” legitimacy, in the thinking it was their masculine due and/or masculine responsibility to invest themselves into something they believed the feminine would reward (much less appreciate) them for with intimacy or idealizations of love or an enduring legacy through family and children, which was doing the duping? Do you think it is possible you are projecting your mind, feelings, values, and experiences on these men in the past? In other words, do you think men who thought blood letting was the cure to disease, were… Read more »