Joker79 from the SoSuave forum relates a common red pill dilemma;
I’m a huge fan of the rational male and I can’t deny that it helped my a lot in these years. I’m spinning plates and I can literally pull out from the crowd the girl I want to bang. I find really amusing though when I challenge some chicks with the uncomfortable truth of the matrix (e.g. their hypergamy, decreasing SMV with age, the feminine mystique and so on). I wonder which is the common (and the worst) reaction you got from your female friends, girlfriend, women you’re meeting daily when you show them that you know the game they’re playing? I usually get “pffff NAWALT” or “you’re a player” or they seems to be butthurt once they realize I turned the table against them… nothing concrete of course because they know I’m right. any meaningful and/or funny experience?
Synergy1 adds the most common response:
I don’t openly discuss the RM and other theories with people, but its funny how a lot of the truths are actually accepted by people. Just the other day I had a discussion on how if you insult a man its funny, but if you mention a fact about women, it’s considered misogyny. The coworkers’ comment was that women are weaker than men are and I responded – why do you hate America. It got some laughs.
Some people get it. These are the same people who have been through divorce and see things for as they are. The younger guys who are still in fairytale land don’t understand or buy into it.
Joker79:
It’s not really discussing openly or starting a conversation about red pill topic, it’s more about observing their behavior when your reaction is different from what chicks expect (e.g. walk away when you’re supposed to beg them to stay, hitting on different chicks when she’s with you and disrespects you and you’re not trying to qualify for her attention at all). More often than not you get either an annoyed reaction (he’s a player) motivated by the discomfort of her knowing that you know her strategy and how to workaround it or a butthurt behavior where she pretends not to care and avoid you (rationalization hamster spinning!)
Think about it this way – you can never tell a woman about the red pill or how Game savvy you are, you can only show her.
Demonstrate, never explicate. While it might be satisfying to overtly crush a woman’s gender perceptions, being overt will always come off like conceit, or bitterness or melancholy.
If your purpose is to alienate and/or correct a woman you have no interest in by pointing out the brutal truths of being Game-aware, that’s certainly your prerogative, but you will never get into a woman’s pants or be more attractive to her by explaining the Game you are engaged in with her (or hope to be).
Women want a guy who Just Gets It.
She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be. Observing the process will change it. This is the root function of every shït test ever devised by a woman. If masculinity has to be explained to a man, he’s not the man for her.
Remember what I’ve bolded here, the same applies to you revealing your understanding of Game. As I’ve stated many times, women may think they want the truth, but they never want full disclosure. Women want to play the Game with you, but they want it running covertly in the background, not overtly and in her face. Much of the reason the red pill, Game and the manosphere are vilified by a blue pill public is due to the overt nature of explaining the psychological and sociological mechanisms operating underneath the social conventions, ego-invested beliefs and masks we wear in engaging with the opposite sex.
The red pill strips away a comfortable veneer – we’re supposed to Just Get It, without explaining how we just get it. Men being the more pragmatic and rational sex tend to think that a reasoned approach should be the most practical one. We deduce that women ought to be just as reasonable and can handle the truth – after all the constant repetition of how women and men are the same with different genitals – so to the uninitiated, newly unplugged red pill guy it seems sensible to remove all the pretense and explain all his understanding to a woman he’s interested in.
Play with her, and play with her.
As I’ve explained before, appeals to a woman’s reason will never bear the fruit that hopeful Beta men expect it will. Women don’t want to be told how the Game works (on some limbic level they already know how it works), they want to play the Game with a Man to determine that he knows how the Game works. There is nothing so self-satisfying for a woman than for her to believe she’s figured a Man out using her (mythical) feminine intuition. Understanding this basic tenet of women is one of the most under-appreciated advantages men have in Game.
This is where the ‘Art’ in Pick Up Artist is important. Too many men believe that understanding red pill truths and the underpinnings of Game should be enough to be convincing with women, but that learning isn’t enough. Playing the Game and applying that knowledge with women without revealing an overt understanding of it is an art that must be practiced and developed to the point where adaptation and improvisation become second nature to a man. Men with this understanding are often the ones with the most comfort and facility with women – Amused Mastery is his natural state, because he knows his advantage in not revealing the secret of the red pill to any woman he’s interested in.
RM,
I am just handing out copies of my books now…in there is all the evidence a young man needs to run 1,000 miles away from the idea of marriage.
“5% is the new 50% if you are a man” really gets through to the young men.
I have also started calling western women EVIL PEOPLE because they know all about these crimes being committed in the family courts and they do not say anything about them thus condoning them.
http://www.a-man-zon.com/Books/B0000PeterNolan.aspx
Screw that, feed them the ugly truth. Destroy their world.
I somewhat agree with Lone Planet. More and more women (mostly single) are becoming blatant with their own masculine feminist “man-bashing”. Obviously dispelling red pill truth won’t help you get a bang, but big picture, I think it is good for everyone to swallow the red pill so that society can begin to solve the issues that plague us all. Forcing the ugly red pill down their throats melts the demon inside them. In the more civilized ages in the past men were more open about their knowledge of women’s true nature and women feared that. Women fear no consequences… Read more »
– you can never tell a woman about the red pill or how Game savvy you are, you can only show her.
This is similar to the the meaning of
Sell me this pen from the movie “The Wolf of Wall Street”
Most men will tell about the good qualities they like about the pen. But, there is a more effective way to sell the pen…
I just saw a movie that displays the hamster better than anything I’ve seen.
It’s “Take This Waltz,” from 2011, so it’s in rotation on cable now. Written and directed by Sarah Polley, based on her divorce. Polley has an interesting genetic backstory – her father was not her mother’s husband, the mother was a cheat, too.
Woman dumps beta who cooks for her in favor of alpha rickshaw driver/artist. It’s an interesting exposition and justification by a female of hypergamy, but validates red pill.
IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1592281/
Some explaining of the red pill may be in order but circumstances will vary. I had one woman tell me that she would see through any “game” I tried to use on her. Of course she never did. It was when she was trying to hoodwink me into cohabit or marriage I had to explain to her that she was used goods and took too many cocks for me to trust her. In the end I didn’t care if she left or stayed around, but at some point a woman needs to hear some truth and not some white night… Read more »
i need to share that explaining TRP to a girl getting a little clingy after a few months and its effect on how i see the male/female dynamic is excellent for cooling her off and resetting the expectations. i’m not evil, and delivered correctly, a thorough explanation of why i “just get it” has let me ease out of “i love you why won’t you marry me” into what i explain is a teaching relationship with significant benefits. done right, and coupled with the maxim of “5 min with an alpha is worth 5 years with a beta” makes for… Read more »
I am considered a natural leader and teacher so i fall into those roles easily. So I will end up teaching women I am with some truths so as to make them better than when I found them. Coming out of a marriage and entering the SMP has really been an eye opener. Mix in the red pill and I had a whole lota thinking and hurting to do. The woman I mentioned was my rebound chick, and I didn’t even want that, but the sex was good and she was fun…at first. It was as I learned more truths… Read more »
It seems there are two paths.
Path one is tun tight game, internalize it, be a woman’s Personal Alpha, maintain frame, and marry.
Path Two is go MGTOW and look for a woman with self-knowledge and interest in the Red Pill, although she may be a needle in a haystack.
I can’t help but think that the “demand” to “just get it” is another expressed form of the feminine imperative. As women choose to remain ignorant, they are continuing to use their facade of weakness. With professed innocence in the actual workings of romance, even within themselves, they can always demand that everything be done by the man.
It’s no different than men simply saying, “But I don’t know how to feed and put the baby to bed, you do it.”
You can’t be overt with red pill ideas to female members of your family either. For Christmas I was with my family and the topic came up to why I wasn’t married yet. I just said some things that I don’t remember the details of right now but mainly about the divorce laws, women my own age (38), some other red pill truth. Before I finished my sister and mother cut me off and started in lecturing me. They pulled the NAWALT and “who am I meeting that I think they would ever do something like that.” Also they mentioned… Read more »
A magician never reveals his methods, because the mystery makes him seem like an artist; someone power and skills beyond others.
The reality is magicians are mechanics. No different than the guy who changes the oil in your car or the plumber who replaces your garbage disposal. They all are simply following step-by-step procedures that will produce a desired result.
If your purpose is to alienate and/or correct a woman you have no interest in by pointing out the brutal truths of being Game-aware, that’s certainly your prerogative, but you will never get into a woman’s pants or be more attractive to her by explaining the Game you are engaged in with her (or hope to be).
Women want a guy who Just Gets It.
She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how.
Heh…Brings to mind the recent SSM/Deti episodes…
Am I that transparent? Heheh.
I’ve got a follow up to this coming up as soon as I’m done with my New Year’s Eve job insanity.
You can’t negotiate desire. When I start lecturing girl about red pill and how fuced up the world is…then I don’t want to fuck her enough. Girls who are getting lots of attention from men (read: hot) don’t really care about spreading the blue pill message (I’m from europe, so I don’t know about america). So there are much less obstacles you can tumble on. When the girl is semi-attractive…she knows it and probbably trys to throw in some frame that is supposed to up her value. But it’s just pissing me off…same dynamic but switched genders…Why doesn’t she “just… Read more »
And the first rule of Fight Club is…?
Just do it. Just be it. Don’t talk about or explain it unless the other person has already shown a) an honest interest and b) an open willingness to accept and act on it. Don’t cast pearls before swine, and don’t show your cards.
OK, so I agree that generally trying to teach the red pill to women is not likely to be a worthwhile endeavor. However, you can break off pieces of knowledge and give girls pretty useful advice. For instance, if you identify a guy who is too beta for a girl (even though he’s a great guy and she just can’t understand why she’s not hot for him), you can be pretty sure things won’t work out well. You can try to guide girls along a path that doesn’t either ignore their hypergamy or result in them chasing playboys. I’ve had… Read more »
For Christmas I was with my family and the topic came up to why I wasn’t married yet. yeah, don’t answer that seriously. next time, try one of these responses: ‘why aren’t you divorced yet?’ ‘polygamy isn’t legal’ (if it’s your sister/mom/female cousin) ‘are you proposing to me?’ ‘my russian mail order bride is being detained by ice’ ‘why do you support such an outdated patriarchal institution?’ they don’t ask why you’re not married yet out of genuine concern for you, they do it to put you on the spot, to shame you. especially if it’s the female family members… Read more »
That makes sense as women don’t seem to be interested in how anything works, really. They just want it to do what it’s supposed to. When was the last time a woman seemed interested in changing the oil in her car or reformatting her harddrive?
Family is the worst. Remember the woman if your family had a big hand in your brainwashing. They are all like that. Its sad when a boy remembers his mother going feral after she div-raped his father. Happens all the time. I even see the red flags that certain females in my family put up with their behavior that make me thing they are screwing around on their beta husbands. As for talking to a woman about your inner thoughts RM and many others advocate keeping them to yourself, which I agree. You speak truth to men, not women. But… Read more »
Even men have a hard time with it. Try having a logical debate and point out the holes and you will see how fast they get frustrated and angry while they try to counter your point. A coworker of mine was mentioning yesterday how he is attracted to a woman’s personality rather than her beauty (typical eh?); I was just passing by when he said that. He was talking to two other coworkers; a 19 y/o girl (no interest in her) and a 60+ lady. Me: So, what do you do? Do you approach every girl regardless of beauty in… Read more »
“Demonstrate, never explicate.”
Sounds like a good thing for 2014.
“why aren’t you divorced yet?” I think if you tried that response it would make things worse. If you said it to a female she’d just say how good their marriage is, how strong their love is, and you could have the same. Making her ask more about why aren’t you married, why don’t you want to be married, what you afraid of, etc… Think it might be better to blow her mind and say you’ve seen too many with too many undercurrents of problems that it doesn’t appeal to you at the moment. Might start some paranoia about what… Read more »
The only thing about playing games is with guys…we like the rules laid out, the field of play to be set, and a game plan that leads to winning. Imagine that you were to “Just Get It” on how to play football without the coaches explaining anything to you. Just be yourself out there. You’d either eventually get there…but it would take a lot of pain and suffering to do it or just bow out because you couldn’t figure out what the hell is going on. This is how most men have to travel through the world of women. These… Read more »
You talk to every attractive woman you meet. By default you should get a 10% success rate. If you take that 10% and game each one you should be able to get 10% of them naked. Foe example out of talking to 100 women you will meet 10 that are the better quality ones, out of that 10 you bang one. Now these are low base line numbers for no game betas bit you get the idea I hope. I have tested this and it works. My success rate was more like 25%. The hotter the average woman, the hotter… Read more »
“Why aren’t you divorced yet?” El-Oh-El. Of course, such a retort would basically be a hydrogen bomb at the holiday dinner table depending on what kind of family you have. Realistically though, it should spark a serious discussion. The reality is that divorce is the primary reason men are not marrying, so why can’t the absurd divorce rate be discussed before someone imposes their desire to see their kids married? If you want your sons to marry, then f-ing deal with this crap marital legal situation you bequeathed them. Make some goddamn effort to make marriage look like a good… Read more »
I say game the shit out of these women. Why? Because it is the most healthy option for all involved. It is the only way to balance the system. Women have had the power for years now and the red pill gives you that power back. You now have the ability to read between the lines. To see and evaluate behaviors and actions for what they truely are and for the first time (at least for me) it gives you an upper hand in gender relations. That in and of itself makes me feel better. Now I am the chooser.… Read more »
When it is finally internalized…it is something like this.
Probably a bit of “ditch driving” – but after reading this article, and thinking of “game” – I wondered how many women were elite chess players there were (believe they are called Grand Masters) and ran across an article (which was old, short and uninteresting – link below), but found this comment interesting… Dr. T February 2, 2007 at 6:46 pm The question of why there are so few women grand masters was not answered by studying average groups of chess players and finding no significant differences between boys and girls or men and women. Sameness near the middle of… Read more »
@Tin Man
100% spot on. Alpha/Beta are mindsets and human beings as animals respond to mental strength or lack thereof in predictable ways.
Women only care about the workings of the outside and how it relates to their inside…because if they knew how things truly worked on the inside, they’d be men.
There is even a part of their brains they rarely access…that the male mind can go to.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-differently
@justincross11
“Women have had the power for years now and the red pill gives you that power back.”
Not for long, women/feminists are planning to legislate their way out of this loss of power.
http://www.returnofkings.com/22080/the-reality-of-false-rape-accusations-will-require-you-to-make-a-change-you-may-not-like
TLDR article; False rape/date rape laws will force men/players to be niceguys else risking her rationalising the consensual sex as being non-consensual.
@chris: That article is funny. See this comment. So much legal protection and safeguards have only increased the number of emotionally unstable, immature and irresponsible women. As far as our society continues to treat them as children, not holding them accountable for their mistakes, and giving them more and more privileges, the more irresponsible, immature and selfish they become.
@chris
Check out this post I made of how campus rape tribunals act more as kangaroo courts to get young men expelled from college for consensual sex that, in one case it seems like the woman simply regretted after fact.
http://www.justfourguys.com/war-against-men-campus-rape-tribunals-are-out-of-control/
Speaking of return of kings, I saw this photo on there that rivals some of the ones I’ve seen on here.
http://www.returnofkings.com/22489/dont-be-a-boring-beta-male?ModPagespeed=noscript
Thanks again Rollo – great site & excellent content. Having survived the tearing of the cognitive dissonance it’s put me through (damn tough at times) I’ve come to something of an epiphany: In the same way that a man will partly anthropomorphize a machine of adequate complexity like a motorbike, I think there’s a tendency to do the same with women. End result is that we feel they’re on the same team as us and we open up the defenses to let them in. In actuality of course women really don’t care what men want – as you’ve pointed out… Read more »
@ Chris Thanks for the link though it seems a bit extreme. I think consent is consent really but I put it on my shoulders to guage what type of woman I Am hooking up with in the first place and whether she was too drunk or high to be fucking with but that’s just me. With regards to what I said above. I just think that too many men are focused on a revenge type mindset and get stuck on the anger part of taking the red pill. I personally see it as a benefit to me in being… Read more »
SILY souls od men. Women do not know the truth? They are irrational while, we, men are …ehm..rational…. What the fuck???? Women KNOW the truth! Better than men. All the problems of men with women are just the reason of PROJECTING! Men – as stupid, silly, creatures, project their romantic ideas onto women. Slave projects his own slavish mentality – to obey, sacrify, to serve.. on his woman. But woman is the MASTER..and has the mentality of the MASTER – to exploit, confuse, TO RULE! Look at your marriages, dating experiences, lives with women. Who is the master here. Who… Read more »
Another projection – men despise romantic literature as silly, emotional…etc.
Given the psychopaths fascination with power over others…it is not suprising that romantic literature as the ultimate fantasy of women si ALL about power and manipulation.
Male psychopath – aggresive – overt, wild, self sustained, not caring about society with his own power, strong, manipulative IS DEFEATED, cornered and enslaved by female psychopath – super manipulative, covert, infinitely dangerous, SUPERIOR! She has BIGGER power, she rules him. End of the story.
Robert D. Hare “Without Conscience” about MALE psychopaths: Basically, psychopaths: 1. exhibit callousness, impulsivity, shallow emotions, superficial charm, and no remorse for what they do. 2. They’re narcissistic and manipulative, 3. When intelligent, they’re generally persuasive and charismatic, and they can get people do to almost anything. 4. They have no regard for truth, although they can evince complete sincerity, and they’re looking out only for themselves. 5. They generally form no long-range plans and fail to take responsibility for their deeds. Robert D. Hare’s Without Conscience offers a comprehensive description of his work among male psychopaths in prisons. When… Read more »
Off topic
pussytivereinforcement.com
any suggestions or ideas on the designs. Obviously the site looks like shit.
@gregg: Enough to this “women are emotional” ans men are “rational” LIE from me. Women are “rational” in relationship decision making. In this aspect they tend to be way to pragmatic and calculating, whereas men are fragile, emotional, romantic, supplicating, needy, etc. Not a general rule, of course, but that’s how it tends to be for most people. If not this feminist bullshit wouldn’t have had so much power. For other aspects of life, they are very limited: men are mostly hard wired to be the “problem solvers”, figure out solutions for practical, logical problems. They (we) have a very… Read more »
Women are not rational….they are pragmatic.
They use their emotions to get out of being rational.
BC already mentioned this quote, but it’s a very good one:
“Don’t give to dogs what is holy, and don’t cast your pearls before swine, or they may trample them and then turn on you and tear you to pieces.”
Here’s another good quote too:
“A person may appear a fool and yet not be one. He may only be guarding his wisdom carefully.”
@Augustus Henry Ford did not need to have specific knowledge, he had his employees and managers to solve the problems for him. Owners of big companies have their managers to do the job and wives of those owners have THEM. Woman does not need to have specific knowledge .. she does not need to “solve” problem, she just does her nails and some stupid macho will do everzthing for her to “worthy” of her. She SOLVES the MAN! @ earl Mhm, women are “irrational” , “emotional” but still…somehow “pragmatic”. 🙂 It is a pity we do not discuss the MALE… Read more »
“Mhm, women are “irrational” , “emotional” but still…somehow “pragmatic”.”
You bet. This reality says that we all have to care about feelings and emotions. Which gender would use that for their advantage or to get out of trouble?
http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/27/the-beta-hamster/
I cover everything gregg.
“This reality says that we all have to care about feelings and emotions. Which gender would use that for their advantage or to get out of trouble?” One gender basically survives by manipulating emotions and romantic projections of the other. So how is this emotional creature able to USE not only her emotions, but even those of her MAN to get out of trouble, to make him work and sacrify for her??? BY her cold, DETACHED, LOGIC…man. Emotions can not rule emotions. There must be somthing other to rule them. Guys here in the manospfere and finally and slowly ..waking… Read more »
It’s called “dissociative indifference”, post to follow.
Dissociative indifference is usually part of bpd. It can be found in psychopathy as well. Normal men are usually not capable of it.
Of course, when combined with intelligence and understandig, it is LASER SURVIVAL weapon.
Guys here in the manospfere and finally and slowly ..waking up, using THEIR brains and cold logic. Finally. But they are still nowhere compared to women. Of course, our ego will not let us to acknowledge this. We are this masters, we are the lions of jungle. I’m trying to understand where you’re trying to get at. Who denies that women have power over men? They’ve always had, they’ve always been protected, cared for, etc. We’re born out of them… But it doesn’t mean that they’re able to solve logical-spacial-abstract problems in the same way that men do. If they… Read more »
@Augustus. you are an intelligent man. I´ve already written more than necesaary to this topic and so just a few questions to your statements. Maybe you will undestand what I mean… “But it doesn’t mean that they’re able to solve logical-spacial-abstract problems in the same way that men do.” YOU, I, every man, with his logic, dreams, emotions, goals..is the logical-spacial-absttact problem. It is the PROBLEM of problems. Yet the WOMAN solves him and understands his emotions BETTER than himslef?? Who is here the “problem solver”. Someone who solves practic problems for resources or someone who solves “the problem solver”… Read more »
Who is here the “problem solver”. Someone who solves practic problems for resources or someone who solves “the problem solver” in oder to push him to solve practic problems for her and resources, and even extract those resources from him? Are you a woman? 🙂 Look, in this respect they’re superior: they navigate emotions like the fish in the sea. They detect subtle emotions almost instantaneously. They can sense what a man feels like about her, even being far away apart. They can sense if a man is suffering, emotionally, even far away and without being in touch with him.… Read more »
Just a short comment here. I see no rational advantage to educating, much less revealing, manosphere truths to women. Thanks to Rollo for point out how powerful the “Just Get It” concept is with women; even by aping this ethic, you maintain some Alpha edge. If you truly are or become an Alpha, you certainly don’t care about triggering the “eureka” moment in their heads. The “Just Get It “mindset is the most effective checkmate to the Feminine Mystique and a tool that is long overdue to Beta men. So why would you want to pull aside the curtain for… Read more »
I don’t think that it matters whether you reveal the Red Pill truth to women. The Alpha is oblivious to the thoughts of others and that confidence is apparent. Hence, you could tell the woman anything as long as it is done with proper mastery. It is the how, not the what that matters.
@Augustus
“The manosphere will be doing the same if they think that men will be independent from women and able to surpass them in emotional intelligence, or to become emotionally independent from them. Men are unconsciously linked to women through the special connection they have with their mothers. This will never change. ”
Not if these boys were born from artificial wombs.
@Gregg I think we can all agree that psychopaths are not rational. So my confusion is then: When those “hypergamic” traits are exhibited by male – he is psychopath and has to be treated and cornered. When they are exhibited in FEMALE – it is…ehm, hypergamy, emotions, etc. …Their manipulation and psychopathy is therefore covert, concealed and therefore … more dangerous… …So we have those poor felloows thinking that they are the masters, the responsible, the rational ones, while the opposite is the true. They are the emotional ones, woman is THE RATIONAL ONE. How is it that women have… Read more »
@jaketheberserker ” More and more women (mostly single) are becoming blatant with their own masculine feminist “man-bashing”. ” Because men are becoming less and less masculine. Instead of throwing things back at her in a tantrum just to feel some sense of cumuppence, instead be the manly type of man she cannot resist but drop all of her foolishness to have a chance to be with. Man bashing women are easy prey for subtle mockery and ego deflation, and getting pissy with them only justifies in their mind that they are right and all men are “pigs”. Besides, what’s the… Read more »
I don’t think that it matters whether you reveal the Red Pill truth to women. The Alpha is oblivious to the thoughts of others and that confidence is apparent.
This. If you spit a red pill truth at a woman and she doesn’t end up fucking you later (regardless of any outrage, faux or otherwise, in the meantime), then you are/were just not alpha enough for her.
In that sense it can be a good litmus test as to your alpha/beta pH.
Goddamn the little diagram I made didn’t come through properly;
Transformation
->caused by a) hypergamy->results in i) justice
->results in ii) injustice
OR
->caused by b) general drive for power -> results in i) justice
->results in ii) injustice
@Rollo and Dr. Jeremy I have been reading through the post http://therationalmale.com/2013/11/25/nursing-power/ And one distinction that I think can be made between these discussions of power and the modern sexual/social marketplace and the manosphere that might not have been considered is this; Dr. Jeremy and I think maybe Rollo are asserting that either; a)Hypergamy causes a drive for power in women, or b)A drive for power exists in all people, men and women, independent of hypergamy. And that either a or b, or both, cause laws, society, culture, norms and values to realign themselves in a way more amenable to… Read more »
I will promote a website:
gynocentrism.com
Documents the feminine imperative throughout history.
Ha! I just ran into that website recently. It has a post by Rollo on chivalry and Mark’s Hail to the V there. Wasn’t sure what to make of it.
I have shown my girlfriend this website, she doesn’t like it, obviously. She is idealistic enough to think that we shouldn’t be gaming each other, but then she’ll pull some shit test out of nowhere. Even when I TELL her I’m gaming her, it doesn’t matter, she still reacts to it the same way as if she doesn’t know. It’s like a woman saying “I’m wearing this push-up bra to turn you on”, it doesn’t make the push-up bra any less appealing, to me anyway. I was wondering whether it makes more sense to keep it secret or not, but… Read more »
@James
It is good that you pulled it back. This is just another test of whether you are the dominant partner in the relationship. That is the only way that it can work.
@ Chris
You answered your own question after “Addendum” 🙂
Rollo, I can’t thank you enough for doing what you do here. My eyes are open and although I wish I found this info sooner, I’m glad it’s spreading and I tell every guy I know about it. It’s amazing how you begin to notice all the little things just watching TV, hearing music, etc… Men are portrayed as betas at best by the media, misogynist creeps at worst. A great current example is a show called “Orange is the new Black”. Watch and weep as the bf played by Jason Biggs dutifully goes along with his new fiancee as… Read more »
Happy new year gents (and lady Kate!) OK I’m going to come out and admit it – this post of Rollo’s is entirely correct. Women know the game, most have learned how to play it by the age of 21 (usually the very hard way, which is part of the reason you get so much bitterness from them when you try to discuss it with them). The ones who don’t play it well, or who still get angry at 40 about how shitty men are, are the ones that never figured out that there was a game going on. I… Read more »
Furthermore, if you are perturbed about being called out as a player, why exactly are you trying to learn game strategy? You are learning game to BECOME a better player, I presume, so you should be glad when a woman points it out to you (annoyedly or not). They are your coaches, believe it or not, because if they are pointing it out to you, that means you either need to improve your skills because you’re too obvious, or you are too sensitive to criticism. Either way, the information is of great use to you. Don’t get offended by it.… Read more »
^^^Advice? You’ve got to be kidding me, lol.
Yeah, Rol, advice. I get this game thing all too well. I want nothing more than for all of us, women and men both, to stop pretending its not happening, to stop pretending its not happening to US, and most of all to stop acting like victims. We can only make conscious and free choices about how to live if we first admit we have a problem. If any of you guys think that Beta isn’t a game strategy, well, I feel kinda bad for you, because you’re missing half the problem. The only problem I have with this Red… Read more »
Thanks Rollo for the honour to be mentioned on you blog. The inspiration of my post comes from the observation of the behaviour of the girlfriends/wives of several friends of mine. Such friends generally act completely clueless about the drivers of feminine behaviour and seem always fearful to be dropped like a rock should they not behave as required. They are 100% beta, I know. Everytime I have the privilege to assist to fights or discussions, I can easily spot the game the woman is playing and sometimes I’m tempted to challenge her. This usually raises embarrassment in the guy,… Read more »
All women are open to being gamed, if the man knows what he’s doing and is up for it. In exactly the same way. By any man. Unless they’re on bang up in Holloway, or a convent or the like. ” .. women are all confused because he’s not behaving in either of the two predictable male ways…” because the third, fourth options are effectively invisible to hypergamy. “.. and many women become convinced that the dude has to be gay or sociopathic or something.” I don’t believe we’ve met? My name is Bam, Thomas Bam. Gin and Dubonnet, thanks.… Read more »
Allo Tam! While it is true, MOST women are open to being gamed (if done smoothly they might even enjoy it!), even the ones that struggle against it. But the ones that aren’t interested might as well be invisible. And frankly, they’re better off that way. Believe me when I say you have nothing to “outmaneuver” or “escape” from where they are concerned because they are busy trying to escape from you. Perhaps it makes life easier for you to think there are many sorts of men, some better and some worse, but only one type of woman. There is… Read more »
@LT
maybe I’m confused but what would the purpose of Beta game strategy be?
Joker, the aim of beta game is exactly the same as it is for alpha men – that being, to capture women.
To be metaphorical, beta men are fishing with a different lure than the alpha men, perhaps using a different style, perhaps with the intention of capturing a different species of fish.
Where the problem lies is that women are not always the fish in the equation anymore.
Yaaaawwwn,….
http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/02/beta-game/
You were saying?
Capture women sounds so adversarial.
@ LT
*Spin**Spin**Spin* Squeak!!
@LT
I’ll be extreme in my evaluation but I think that Beta game, as specified by Rollo, is nothing more than a pathetic submission to women power in order for those beta to get the basic sexual needs fulfilled and therefore stop the hunt for the women themselves. I don’t see a strong long term strategy that brings absolute happiness and dominance for the man, but only a way women have to ensure themselves with a provider through the informed acceptance of the flaws of the Beta male. After all, Alpha fvcks, beta bucks.
Sure Joker, I’m sure it does seem supplicating to you guys, and yes I’m sure in extreme cases it does go that way – probably many of you have been those guys who put their needs aside for dominant women – but my point here is that it is a strategy. As Rollo’s linked article amply illustrates, it is an alternate strategy, and a very successful one, which was designed (by men) to gain access to the many women who were either not interested in, or cast off by, the “players” and therefore easier pickings for the less skillful players.… Read more »
“Where the problem lies is that women are not always the fish in the equation anymore.” Oh yes they are unless they’re floaters. They just don’t know it. Trouble is they’ve convinced themselves that looking and acting like Angler Fish is the wave of The Future. Especially the look. “One day, if I can only doss about in the benthonic slime long enough, a delicious Unicorn Fish will be so attracted to my special shiny snowflake-lure, he’ll swim rite inta my teeth! Muahahahahaaaa!” The End. OK confessio, I’m at a loose end what with the scheisswetter and all, and I… Read more »
Tam, that Oatmeal link is hysterical! Love it.
Hey you guys, can someone please explain how I can reply to a specific comment post, and get the text from the original comment to appear in my reply? I’ve seen it done, someone mentioned in a previous article about some shift-F9 thing, but I obviously didn’t do it correctly because it hasn’t worked out for me yet.
[…] longs to be Gamed by men that “just get it” and will quickly reject and lose interest in any that […]
@LT
“As Rollo’s linked article amply illustrates, it is an alternate strategy, and a very successful one”
how do you define the term “successful strategy”? just to get access to women that will drop you like a rock (keeping you as the provider of course)if they came across an alpha?
Joker, the beta strategy is very successful. There are considerably more betas with women than there are alphas, or even alpha-wannabes, so if securing a woman is the goal (which it clearly is), then you’ve succeeded at your goal. What you do with it after the capture is the interesting part. My point is only that perhaps you want to set the bar a little higher. Where the strategy fails is the selection criteria for betas (for most men, to be honest, alphas included) is really weak and undiscerning – and after the capture, you think the game ends there.… Read more »
LT:
The beta strategy is successful only for women, because women respond to it only after sating themselves with alphas and the occasional alpha burns. For men, beta game succeeds only to get a suboptimal woman, and rope her in with cash and provider goodies.
LT likes the idea of Beta Game being a successful mating strategy for men because it complements her ego-investments in feminine superiority. If you actually read the essay you’ll note that Beta Game is little more than a coping strategy for the vast majority of men (Beta men) to ‘poach’ women who would otherwise opt for more Alpha-dominant men. So she’s correct in the assumption that since more men are Beta than Alpha, the overwhelming deductive Game practiced by (Beta) men has been one of making themselves what they believe will make them more acceptable to the feminine imperative. Thus… Read more »
Rollo, after everything I’ve said on this forum, including my most recent post, what on earth would make you think I LIKE beta strategy? Or any game strategy at all???? Egads, its revolting. I thought I’d made myself clear on that point by now, at the very least.
And incidentally Rollo… “To LT, an Alpha man is a caricature of offensive hyper-masculinity, bordering on violent domineering, but the Man who will get her off will never be the guy using Beta Game, because there will always be an underlying disrespect of the man who literally molds his personality around what women tell him he should to better please them” …could not be further from representing me. Alpha can go bad. Beta can go bad. Both can be good too, but so very rarely are. Neither strategy impresses me, because they are both far too obvious to me to… Read more »
LyingTree confuses a “point” with “pointless snark”, but that’s par for the feminist(e) course.
Careful readers will see that LyingTree is pushing AFBB, once again.
The Female Imperative is regularly revealed in LT’s postings.
My fave so far is the claim that children must be supported by one or more men, because. Just because. Rather like Marx’s labor battallions will be formed…
Scratch a feminist, and you will find a totalitarian every single time.
Sigh… I know I shouldn’t bother with you, AR, I’m trying to stay optimistic. One day, if you keep right on swinging that dead cat, you’re bound to hit something with it eventually. You might even hit a totalitarian feminist one day, if you swing a little wider. You missed the mark today though.
However, the point I have made here is that beta is the strategy for getting you in the game. After that, you gave the ball away. Supplication was the strategy you thought you should use to get it back. How did that work out for ya? In order for your strategy to work long-term, you need to employ your strategy on people who are LESS GAME-SAVVY than you, so you don’t give the ball to someone who will never give it back to you willingly. Why your strategy failed you is because you didn’t even realize that you were being… Read more »
LT
But please, lets not talk about me…
I nominate this for irony of the day.
LyingTree2013
Any man (or woman) who molds their personality based on what other people/society tell them they should be does not get my respect.
Yet you, and all other feminists, demand that men should mold themselves based on what feminists want. So the men who obey feminism are the men who do not get your respect.
Thus LT confirms an elementary tenet of Game…excellent.
Isn’t it fantastic to see how women start qualifying for attention when caught and think that everything is about them? somewhere Rollo wrote “the closer you get to truth the louder women screech”
Women are nor scared, or preferring beta, or alpha game. Both have a value for them. Alpha provides excitement and fun, or genes, beta resources. Men qualifying to women..amusing for our chicks. Women will be scared when one thing happens – MEN STOP CARING. Or better..the attractive men and capable providers STOP CARING. This one would scare shit out of women. As every parasite, they can not live without their host. But we can observe some funny changes in the behaviour of women. Increased sexual competition. Very, very harsh one, indeed. They are sexually tempted and provoked by all this… Read more »
LT, I understand. It’s difficult, to be sure, trying to get men back into the corral where our utility to women can be fully exploited,as Goddess surely intended. And no doubt quite tiring when men keep seeing through your turgid verbiage to the Female Imperative you thought was hidden away.
I feel your pain…
And so does one of your feminist sisters.
http://witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/
Corral??! WTF are you talking about? I don’t want you in any corral, I don’t want you being used any more than I want women to be used, or any more than I want either of us to learn to be better users. I want us all to be able to stand on our own two feel, take responsibility, have agency for our actions, even our bad ones. But, since using seems to be all we know how to do to each other these days, is there any option besides play along, or leave? I left. You make your own… Read more »
Hey [b]Rollo[/b] (or anyone else who has an idea), Off-topic question. Why are more women having children outside of marriage? Government benefits? Divorce is a PITA? Given that they benefit the majority of the time I figured it was a no brainer, especially for women out of their prime. One of my friends wanted to get married to a woman he’s been with now for like 8-10 years (she’s 33 and they have a 5 y/o boy). They aren’t married because she doesn’t want to be. He makes great money (120K+) and it baffles me. She’s a typical government worker… Read more »
I have an idea to answer your question, Rol – women are opting to have children without marriage because… well, because its easier. Being married, as more and more women are starting to realize, is really fucking hard (not just for you guys), and often not worth the trouble, even when they are almost guaranteed to earn less income than if they were married. Incidentally, less than 10% of total single mothers in the US are collecting welfare. I’ve gotta head out to an appointment, but I’ll bring on the math for you when I get back.
@Rol, what’s the incentive?
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/marriage-may-not-be-silver-bullet-poverty-study-says-2D11863554
@Living Tree
What you refer to as genuine people who don’t care what people think are just alphas. They have internalized a certain life code and things are simple. The rest, who still need to try, are betas with perhaps some shades of alpha that have not yet fully formed.
Hmm, Interesting theory, New Yorker, not sure I’d agree with you though. I take them more to be gammas. http://socialpathology.blogspot.ca/2010/03/gamma-man.html Gammas are the ones that pose a threat to the status quo, the loners, the private types that question the system. Alphas I’ve met have a tendency towards extreme opportunism, domineering, and ultimately, conceit – Alphas being the ones that betas emulate and prop up in our capitalistic society, because of their superior game skills. I think at some point in everyone’s development, they come to a crossroad, when they recognize what’s expected of them to participate in this society,… Read more »
BTW, New Yorker, I have met a lot of Alpha males (and females) in my time, and not one of them I could say with sincerity doesn’t care about what other people think of them. Quite the contrary, actually, they are generally speaking, more obsessed with it than betas are. Alphas are acutely aware of the fragility of their rank, of the constant challenges to it, and they work diligently to maintain position, often by way of carefully designed charismatic distractions.
BTW, New Yorker, I have met a lot of Alpha males (and females) Here we see a standard attempt at a reframe; redefine the terms, and thereby control the narrative. By peddling a definition of “alpha” that is different from the more or less agreed upon usage of the androsphere, LyingTree clearly wishes to steer men away from thinking in clear terms. There is no such thing as a “female alpha” in androsphere terms, for example. Throwing that meaningless term out there is not communication, but obfuscation. Now, what purpose is served by fogging up men’s thinking about women? Is… Read more »
Its not intended to fog you, AR, its intended to remove the blinders from your eyes. I know you’re just learning this stuff, and its much easier for it to be as simple as “choose alpha or beta” and “feminine imperative” but there’s far more to this than you think. There’s plenty of evidence of it, and you can use it to your advantage, if you would just pull your fucking head out of your ass, stop hero-worshipping Rollo (not that you aren’t awesome Rollo), and learn something more than just what he tells you. Or, if you just want… Read more »
LyingTree2013 Corral??! WTF are you talking about? I don’t want you in any corral, I don’t want you being used any more than I want women to be used, or any more than I want either of us to learn to be better users. I want us all to be able to stand on our own two feel, take responsibility, have agency for our actions, even our bad ones. But, since using seems to be all we know how to do to each other these days, is there any option besides play along, or leave? Yes, corral. LT likes to… Read more »
@LT, I’m going to be upfront with you. For as much as I think you’re a troll, I do in fact appreciate your input here. More often than not for your proving my points or presenting an example of them, however you do give me food for thought. That said, you’re very smugly presumptuous in that your first reactions to some novel idea you think you’ve had, some particular topic of an essay, or something that you believe only people of your mindset ever consider, haven’t already been discussed in detail on this blog, in my book or even the… Read more »
I’m sorry Rollo, but I’m not sure I get what you mean. You have posted linkbacks to your articles several times in response to things I’ve said in the past, but in almost every instance, they largely validate whatever it is that I’ve said. Not even one time can I remember where you “completely dispelled” a `”knee-jerk reaction” you believe me to be having. Au contraire! I really should thank you more often for backing me up! This last link you posted basically said exactly the same thing that I said in my post (though you said it with considerably… Read more »
@Living Tree What you define as Alpha are just ambitious betas. The definition of Alpha is of someone who does not project vulnerability. Money, career, etc. Have nothing to do with it although they of course correlate to alphatude to some degree. A stressed out CEO who can’t hide his fears from his wife is a beta compared to a regular Joe who has his life under control. The definition of Alpha is having control over your life. You can’t have control over your life if you don’t give primary impetus to your vision of the world, which by definition… Read more »
Well New Yorker, I suspect that we’re just using two different names for the same thing. I disagree with you, I think men are more complex than just simple, limiting alpha and beta classifications. But anyway, I don’t even care about the definition, I really don’t. The social ranking system is a made-up social concept in urban mythology, without any scientific definition. Its kind of ridiculous, and I feel ridiculous using the terms, so I’m not going to get into a debate with anyone here about what they mean because that would be preposterous. All I do want to say… Read more »
“.. I`d really prefer it if we didnt focus on me, please. Ì know you guys are deliberately doing it to make me talk about myself ..”
… a-a-aaand. As if by Magick.
Women lack agency.
And as averse as I am to nominating anyone as a troll (rather than merely slightly stupid), almost the entire post above that …
… well … Concern Troll is Concerned.
It’s like ‘show and tell’ at the kindergarten. A fresh-minted exemplar of the Imperative in every post. Brilliant!
OHHHHH my god! My bad,I totally get it now! I foolishly had assumed that you guys gave a shit what women have to say, but I now realize what you’ve been stating here all along, that you only give a shit about women’s opinions when you’re trying to fuck us, and even then you only pretend to care if there’s a chance of getting laid (being the betas that you are). Since you stand no chance of getting laid with me here (plus you have the advantage of anonymity), you feel entirely comfortable dismissing my input outright. I’m so sorry… Read more »
I have officially lost interest in you.
Looks like Rollo’s got a new groupie…
That was more directed towards you, AR, and not because I think your behavioral problems are sexy as heck. I have the rare ability to make my inward beliefs and my outward behavior congruous. I am attracted to integrity. You do not have it.
Whereas, I do think Rollo has some rare abilities which do make him more interesting than the average MRA subscriber. That being, he is able to read between the lines, and understand without accepting an opposing point of view. Perhaps under his tutelage, you might learn those skills one day.
http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/further-materials-toward-a-theory-of-the-man-child/
I have the rare ability to make my inward beliefs and my outward behavior congruous. Of course you do. That’s why you intersperse your thickets of text about “fairness” with little stink bombs of coercive utopianism. I hope that you have not caused injury to your shoulder with all that self-back-patting. I am attracted to integrity. Of course you are, since a man who strives to keep his word is much easier to manipulate by a woman who knows she can change her mind at any time, “just because”. Plus if need be, you have the option to go all… Read more »
AR, if you can find ONE single example among anything I’ve EVER said on this forum relating to any form of coercion or utopia, please do point it out to me, I will be sure to correct it. I suspect though that you are fixating on what you think I said, but didn’t actually say, because for some reason you have been trained to believe that feminists are marxists, and that marxists are bad, so therefore feminists are bad. Admittedly, I had a few moments of delusion in my youth that there could be great strides made by way of… Read more »
lt2013 AR, if you can find ONE single example among anything I’ve EVER said on this forum relating to any form of coercion or utopia, please do point it out to me, I will be sure to correct it and But meanwhile, as I plan my escape from the inevitable chaos, there’s no reason as far as I can see not to help out the poverty-stricken single-mom neighbor’s very decent kids with some mentorship and personal development that they wouldn’t otherwise get from their bum dad…. Exactly. Or as Marx put it, Labor battallions will be formed. So I’m going… Read more »
Oh yes, I can certainly appreciate the vast gulf between our “philosophies”. And since you appear to be a nutjob of epic proportions, I’d rather not engage with you any further if you don’t mind. Although that seems to be impossible for you, since every single one of your posts contains some diatribe directed at something I’ve said which you’ve extrapolated into your chart illustrating female totalitarianism.
LT2013 Oh yes, I can certainly appreciate the vast gulf between our “philosophies”. I feel your pain, it must be simply dreadful for one of the pack mules to decide not to be a pack mule anymore. And that pretty much sums you up: men are objects for women like you to use, and little more. Rather as Stalin chose to use the zeks in his construction projects, but on a retail rather than a wholesale scale, and without obvious executions. Well, obvious executions, anyway. A man who blows his brains out to end his depression while being divorced is… Read more »
PS:
LT
And since you appear to be a nutjob of epic proportions,
Ah, Code White, a classic example of feminist shaming language as seen here:
http://exposingfeminism.wordpress.com/shaming-tactics/
I’m always impressed by medical doctors who can diagnose other people over the Internet. Tell us, LyingTree, where and when did you graduate from medical school, where did you do your residency, and in what location are you a licensed medical professional?
You have to play dumb a little bit because she is hoping to sucker you.
Once she realizes she cannot manipulate you at all she will move on.
@rol My theory had always been that the general public is becoming more and more wary of marriage because numbers of failed marriages are giving it increasingly bad rep but you got me thinking… In my generation at least (Europe, 90s kids) there’s virtually no talk of marriage except for the topic of divorces. Virtually everyone I know either knows someone who has or has been through that particular wringer between 6 and 16. There’s very few idealists left who believe marriage can still work and, even among the womanfolk who do believe, incentive to marry is shot down by… Read more »